1 00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to steph you missed in history class from how 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: I'm Holly Fry and I'm Tracy B. Wilson. Tracy, you 4 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: know this, but it's worth mentioning that there was a 5 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 1: time and people believe the insects were somehow spawn from mud. 6 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: In fact, I had a book as a child that 7 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:32,559 Speaker 1: was about animals that discussed this fact, and I was 8 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 1: perplexed that anyone ever would have thought that was a thing. 9 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 1: It seems very far fetched now, but that's because science 10 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: and there were plenty of other misconceptions where bugs came from. 11 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: But the woman that we're talking about today helped dispel 12 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: a lot of those myths and really improved the scientific 13 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: study of insects and plants, and she did it beautifully. 14 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: This is sort of a wonderful marriage of art and science. 15 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: Although she was not a scholar in the sense of 16 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: having attended college for education, her work would go on 17 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: to be studied by naturalists and was even used by 18 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: the father of modern taxonomy, Carl Linnaeus, as he identified 19 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 1: and named plant an animal species. So today we are 20 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: talking about naturalist and scientific illustrator Maria Zibuya Marianne in 21 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: an interesting thing. Her star is apparently on the rise, 22 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: because I have noticed all of a sudden as I 23 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: was researching this, articles were cropping up on other sites 24 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: about her. So she is kind of a buzzword at 25 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: the moment, apparently. But she's really amazing and worthy of 26 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,400 Speaker 1: all this attention. So that's who we're talking about today. 27 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 1: Maria Zibullia marian was born on April second, sixteen forty seven, 28 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: in Frankfurt, Germany. Her father was Mattheus Marion, one of 29 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 1: seventeenth century Germany's best illustrators, and her mother was Johanna 30 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: Sabaya Haine. Johanna was Mattheus's second wife, and he had 31 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: inherited a print shop from his father in law from 32 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: his first marriage, and Maria was born into a family 33 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: of much older sibylings that were from her father's first marriage. 34 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: Before his first wife died, that couple had had five 35 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: children together, so when she was born, Maria had two 36 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: half sisters who were in their twenties, another half sister 37 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: who was a teenager, and a brother who was twelve, 38 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 1: so she was the baby by a significant margin. But 39 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:21,919 Speaker 1: though her father was a renowned illustrator, and she undoubtedly 40 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:25,799 Speaker 1: inherited talent from him. She wasn't able to benefit from 41 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: his influence because he died when she was only three, 42 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: but her mother remarried and Maria's stepfather, Jacob Merril, was 43 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 1: a painter who was well known for his still life work, 44 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: which focused on just meticulously rendered florals. Yeah, this is 45 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: a moment during research when I reached out to Tracy 46 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: and said, this is one of those weird times when 47 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: a thing I love meets up with a thing i'm researching, 48 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:53,519 Speaker 1: because I really like, in particular, Jacob Meryl's paintings. Uh. 49 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: He has this one sort of signature color scheme on 50 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: a lot of flowers that look almost like a peppermint 51 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: stripe and it's very beautiful. Uh. And you'll see it 52 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:04,679 Speaker 1: appear first in like individual images of tulips that he 53 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 1: would paint, and then they kind of get worked into 54 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: bigger Dutch Golden Age florals that you've seen. Undoubtedly, So 55 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: it was kind of a lovely discovery that he tied 56 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 1: into our show today. Uh. And Maria was interested in 57 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:18,519 Speaker 1: art from the time she was very tiny. I don't 58 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: know how you couldn't be in that family, so her 59 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: stepfather took the role of teacher and gave her a 60 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: foundation that was going to serve her for the rest 61 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 1: of her life. And it was assisting Merrily in his 62 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 1: work that she found her own personal passion. While still 63 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: very very young, Maria would collect the plants and insects 64 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: that served as models for Meryl's still life paintings, and 65 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: gathering those specimens sparked her curiosity, and she became more 66 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: and more fascinated with insects and plants. Caterpillars were of 67 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: special interest to Maria, and she began keeping her own 68 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: collection of them so that she could follow their life 69 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:57,559 Speaker 1: cycles as they transformed through the puba stage and into butterflies. 70 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: As she observed these process she started documenting them through illustrations, 71 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: and Maria's practice of keeping insects and other living things 72 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: and watching the metamorphos and or grow through their life 73 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: was really quite significant. Other artists that made illustrations of 74 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: plants and animals almost always were working from dead, preserved specimens, 75 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 1: but Maria preferred to see all of her subjects alive 76 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: to truly understand what they looked like and how they functioned, 77 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,479 Speaker 1: and it was Undoubtedly this practice that she began as 78 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: a child that earned her a reputation for work that 79 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: surpassed all the scientific illustrators that came before her. At 80 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:39,359 Speaker 1: the age of eighteen, in sixteen sixty five, Maria was 81 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: married to one of Meryl's apprentices, an artist named Johann 82 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: Andreas Graff. In addition to working as a painter, he 83 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: was also a draftsman and a publisher, as well as 84 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: a copper engraver. In sixteen sixty eight, Maria and Johan 85 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 1: had their first child, a daughter named Johanna Elena, and 86 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 1: after Johanna was born, the family moved to Johan's hometown 87 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: of Nurnberg. In the early years of Johanna's life, Maria 88 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: began producing more serious illustration studies of flowers and insects. 89 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: She once again began raising her own specimens and has 90 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: said to have even spent nights where she got no 91 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: sleep because she was watching over pupa's that were expected 92 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: to produce metamorphosed moths or butterflies. She didn't want to 93 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: miss any of their transformations. Yes, she was dedicated to 94 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,479 Speaker 1: watching them. She really like if she saw any movement 95 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,359 Speaker 1: in a pupa that suggested it might be about to 96 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: release the metamorphosed creature. She was like, nope, I'm just 97 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: gonna sit here and watch this no matter what. Uh. 98 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: And in Nuremberg, Maria also began a series of floral engravings, 99 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: which were published in three volumes over the course of 100 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: five years from sixteen seventy five to sixteen eighty. This publication, 101 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: titled bloom In Book or Book of Flowers, was so 102 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 1: popular that it was later republished as Neius bloom In 103 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: Book New Book of Flowers with additional plates and a 104 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 1: new preface. Thirteen years into their marriage, Maria and Johan 105 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: had a second daughter, Dorothya Maria I, was in sixteen 106 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:11,359 Speaker 1: seventy eight. The year after Dorothy's birth, Maria produced the 107 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: first of two volumes titled Caterpillars Their Wondrous Transformation and 108 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 1: Peculiar Nourishment from Flowers, that was in sixteen seventy nine. 109 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: Volume two didn't publish until almost four years later, in 110 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 1: sixteen eighty three. Marian's volumes on insects were greeted with 111 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: acclaim immediately. She had chosen to show moss and butterflies 112 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: throughout their life cycles, and in each image she showed 113 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: them in each of their life stages, alongside and interacting 114 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: with the plants that served as the insects, food sources, 115 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 1: and habitats. Both the insects and the flowers were illustrated 116 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:51,919 Speaker 1: in incredible and accurate detail, with annotation for each, and 117 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: Maria's work had achieved an entirely new level in scientific illustration, 118 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: as no one had ever documented the entire life cycle 119 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: in this particular way. It astonishes me that it was 120 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: the seventeenth century before anyone did this, because it's such 121 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: a ubiquitous feature in like science books for children. Now, yeah, 122 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: you always show the habitat plants along with the insects, 123 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: but they were always just drawn separately prior to this. 124 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: Just after Maria's Floral book finished publication, and in the 125 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: years between the publications of volume one and two of 126 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: her book on Insects, her family pulled up stakes from Nurnberg, 127 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: which had been their home for fourteen years, and they 128 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: moved back to Frankfurt. Jaka Merrill had died in six one, 129 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: leaving Maria's mother a widow, and so she and her 130 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: husband Graf had moved to take care of her. Four 131 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: years later, Graf moved back to Nurremberg. Maria and their 132 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:55,679 Speaker 1: two daughters did not move with him. In six six, Maria, 133 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: her mother Johanna, and her daughter's Johanna and Dorotea all 134 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: moved to a village and what was West Friesland but 135 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: would now be part of the Netherlands. They joined Maria's 136 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: half brother, Casper, and a colony of Labadists, which was 137 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 1: a Protestant communist sect that could be its own whole 138 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: story in and of itself. Perhaps one day it will be. 139 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: But we're about to talk about the official end of 140 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: Marian's marriage and her ongoing studies of the natural world. 141 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: But first we will pause and have a sponsor break. 142 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: Maria's mother, Johanna, had died in the village where her 143 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: her brother Casper lived in six nine, and the following 144 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:43,479 Speaker 1: year Marianne took her daughters to a new home in Amsterdam, 145 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: and throughout their stay with the Lobbyists, Maria and Johann 146 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: Groff were still legally married, but they divorced the same 147 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: year that Maria took the children and left the colony. 148 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 1: She would later confide in a friend that the marriage 149 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:58,839 Speaker 1: had been poor and joyless, and she also sometimes lied 150 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: about the end of their relation and ship later in 151 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: her life, telling people not that she and Graff had divorced, 152 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 1: but that he had died and left her a widow. 153 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: Just kind of the the cruelest thing you can possibly 154 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: do to an x. So they died in Amsterdam. The 155 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 1: family had a studio where they all worked on their painting. 156 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 1: Both of Maria's daughters with Graff would go on to 157 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: become skilled painters themselves. Yeah, this was definitely a family 158 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: line of artists from before Maria and after. And at 159 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: the age of fifty two, Maria and Dorotea, who was 160 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,199 Speaker 1: twenty one at the time, traveled to Surinam. That was 161 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: in six and at this time Surinam was a Dutch 162 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: colony almost five thousand miles away from their home in Europe. 163 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: For two women to be traveling there for an extended 164 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: period of time without a man to accompany them, this 165 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: was considered a very very dangerous move. Add to that 166 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: the fact that the trip was beyond expensive, and it 167 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: becomes clear just how much of a risk it was. 168 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 1: Maria had old as many drawings as she could and 169 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 1: had gone into debt to finance the journey. Her hope 170 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: was that she would be able to make her money 171 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: back after she published a new book about Surinam's native wildlife, 172 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: so this was really a huge gamble. But Maria, who 173 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: up to that point had only been able to see dead, 174 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: de hydrated, preserved specimens of the plants and animals that 175 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:24,559 Speaker 1: lived in Surinam, really craved the opportunity to see those 176 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: species alive so that she could draw them as accurately 177 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: as possible. They had planned to visit South America for 178 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: a five year expedition, but it was cut short after 179 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: two years because Maria became ill. Initially, she thought her 180 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:42,679 Speaker 1: weakness was the result of too much sun and heat, 181 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: but things really progressed to the point that she thought 182 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: she might die if she stayed there, so she made 183 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: the decision to return home. She and Darthea returned to 184 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 1: Amsterdam in September seventeen o one, and exactly what she 185 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: had contracted is unknown, although the two most likely can 186 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: to dates are malaria and yellow fever. Yeah, there's a 187 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: lot of speculation, and since she did work with insects 188 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: and was routinely going into the jungles to study them, 189 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: those were probably the two most likely things. But in 190 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: those two years that they did stay there. Both mother 191 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 1: and daughter dedicated themselves to learning everything they could about 192 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:22,719 Speaker 1: the new species of plants and animals that they were 193 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: exposed to. Of the many illustrations produced during this time, 194 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 1: there have been some issues actually identifying which were done 195 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: by Maria and which were done by Dorotea, because their 196 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 1: styles were very similar. This is a debate that sometimes 197 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: still goes on. She published a new book in seventeen 198 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: oh five, Metamorphosis Insectorum surinam incium, which was metamorphos of 199 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: the Insects of Suriname. There were more than five dozen 200 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: engravings in the book, carefully detailing the life cycles of 201 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: Surnames insect world. The work followed the same format as 202 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: her work on caterpillars, featuring each creature here alongside its 203 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: host plant life with detailed descriptive text. While her books 204 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 1: on flowers and caterpillars were lauded as extraordinary achievements for 205 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: botany and zoology, it was the Insects of Surinam book 206 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: that would be considered her most significant work. For one, 207 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: it was one of the first such studies of flora 208 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:21,679 Speaker 1: and fauna of that area, and second, it offered a 209 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: wealth of new information about the food chains and developmental 210 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: cycles of insects. This was really groundbreaking because it abandoned 211 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:34,440 Speaker 1: the idea of spontaneous generation, that maggots came not from 212 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: eggs but from meat, and that insects were the products 213 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: of mud, among other incorrect ideas about how insects come 214 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: to be. Yeah, for a long time, people thought rotting 215 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 1: meat was where maggots came from. And while that may 216 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: be where their eggs, the eggs get laid that produced them, 217 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: they didn't realize that there was a whole egg aspect, 218 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 1: but they just thought the meat started some process. Uh. 219 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 1: And while those myths were addressed, Maria's work was not 220 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: above criticism, though most of that criticism came after her life. 221 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 1: And we've got some bun proboscis talk right after we 222 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 1: first pause for a word from one of our sponsors. 223 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: Because of her dedication to carefully watching every moment of 224 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: the insects lives unfold, included in her Suriname book was 225 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,079 Speaker 1: a detail that she observed in sphinx moths, which went 226 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 1: contested for quite some time. In her illustration of a 227 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 1: newly metamorphosed moth that appears in the book, she shows 228 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:33,959 Speaker 1: it with what looks like a split tongue if you're 229 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: just looking at the picture, and in her accompanying notes, 230 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: she described the two pieces combining to form a tube 231 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: that allowed this moth to drink nectar. This is a 232 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: time where prior, unrelated research for my job allowed me 233 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: to get to read this whole part and just feel 234 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:58,839 Speaker 1: already vindicated. This was the text that accompanied the plate 235 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: of the Sphinx moth, which notes the split proboscus and 236 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: also gives you a sense of the types of notes 237 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 1: that generally accompanied her illustrations. Here's the quote. The large 238 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:12,439 Speaker 1: green caterpillar ate the leaves both of this plant and 239 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:15,839 Speaker 1: of the sweet stop described in plate fourteen. It ate 240 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: vigorously and greedily, yet had as little discharge an excrement 241 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: as the smallest caterpillar. When touched, it thrashed around wildly. 242 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: On twenty third June, it remained still and shed its skin. 243 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: The skin it discarded is lying on the leaf. After 244 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: the molding, it was no longer so green, but became 245 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: more reddish in color. The next day it changed into 246 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: a liver colored chrysalis with an external protuberance like the 247 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: one which can be seen on the stock below. The 248 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: Chrysalis was very restless, throwing itself to and fro continuously 249 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: for about a quarter of an hour. On twenty August, 250 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: there emerged a large moth with six orange and yellow 251 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: spots on its body, whose four wings six legs were 252 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: strangely covered with black thoughts. It's long proboscus consists of 253 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: two long tubules, which in this species of moth are 254 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: joined together, thus making a small tube through which they 255 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: can suck honey from the flowers. When they have finished sucking, 256 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: they roll the proboscus up tightly and place it under 257 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: their head between the eyes, so that it is scarcely visible. 258 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: And there were critics of this particular drawing who claimed 259 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 1: that it was proof that her work was not as 260 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: accurate as had been claimed, hinting that she had added 261 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 1: flourishes to her observations. And again this happened after she 262 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: had passed, and we'll talk about that timing and a 263 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: little bit. But eventually it was confirmed that some moths, 264 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: the sphinx moth among them, have to half tubules that 265 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 1: do join together to form one proboscus. They are one 266 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: of the most fascinating features of moths. Yes, along with 267 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: like little rows of hooks that connect their wings together, 268 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: sometimes to return to this object at hand. Similarly, Marian's 269 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: illustration of a tarantula making a meal out of a 270 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: hunting bird was decades out of her death called out 271 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: as an impossibility. Early nineteenth century naturalist Landsdown Gilding called 272 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: the plate a quote entomological caricature. British entomologist William McClay 273 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: tested the idea in the eighteen hundreds by offering a 274 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: large spider in his lab of birds eat and when 275 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 1: the bird or when the spider fled. He resolved that 276 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: Marian had quotes told a willful falsehood. But of course 277 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: we know now that such things do indeed happen in nature. 278 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: When Henry Walter Bates observed this same behavior and published 279 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: his findings in eighteen sixty three, Marian's depiction was validated. 280 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: I literally did multiple she was right dances in my 281 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: chair while reading line when Polly wrote it. There were 282 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: to be clear some errors in metamorph Us of the 283 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: Insects of Surinam. Some of these have been attributed to 284 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 1: the abrupt end of her studies in South America and 285 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,360 Speaker 1: her need to create some of her illustrations from memory 286 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: and preserved samples. For example, army and leaf cutter ants 287 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:17,360 Speaker 1: are grouped together as though they lived in the same colonies, 288 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:21,400 Speaker 1: and some of the caterpillars are pictured with different butterflies 289 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:27,440 Speaker 1: than the ones they actually metamorphosed into. Yeah, I mean 290 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: to be fair, any scientists has some errors along the way, 291 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: and she did. That trip did not go as planned, 292 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:36,879 Speaker 1: so you could kind of see why. There's a really 293 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: long and wonderful paper that I will link to in 294 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: our show notes. It was one of my sources that 295 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 1: kind of outlines why we should not discount her work 296 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:50,360 Speaker 1: just because there are some errors. Well, we make errors sometimes, everybody. 297 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 1: Everybody that anyone that deals with lots of information does. 298 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 1: You can't help it unless you're a robot, and even 299 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 1: then sometimes you're about to make mistakes. But in that 300 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: same book, slipped in along with the various notes on 301 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 1: an illustration of a peacock flower with a caterpillar climbing 302 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,719 Speaker 1: its stem and a pupa resting on a leafy segment 303 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: and a moss sipping nectar from the flowers is an 304 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 1: annotation that is not about botany or insects, but about slavery. 305 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:22,399 Speaker 1: In the notes, Marian wrote that enslaved women of Surinam 306 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,239 Speaker 1: would use the seeds of the peacock flower as an 307 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: apportive face it, choosing not to have a child rather 308 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,400 Speaker 1: than to allow one to be born into the cruelties 309 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: of slavery. She continued, quote, indeed, they even kill themselves 310 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: on account of the of the usual harsh treatment meted 311 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 1: out for them. So they consider that they will be 312 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: born again with their friends in a free state in 313 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 1: their own country, so they told me themselves. This was, 314 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: of course a unique outtake in Marian's notations, a rare 315 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 1: deviation from the science of her work on flora and 316 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 1: insects to comment on the dark side of colonial is 317 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: um and the slavery that came with it. She continued 318 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: that the slaves quote must be treated benignly. Biographer Kim 319 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: Todd wondered in her book about Marian if this notation 320 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: wasn't intended to provide food for thought for the people 321 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: of Europe who might own slave plantations, many of whom 322 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 1: would be the likely audience for this book. But as 323 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 1: Maria made no further known remarks on the subject, we 324 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: don't really know what she hoped to achieve with these 325 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: particular passages. Yeah, it does stand out though, it's sort 326 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 1: of like, here we are leaf cutter ants and look 327 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 1: at that. What the spiders are doing. Hey, slavery is horrible. 328 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 1: And also let's look at this plant. It's really like 329 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: it jumps out as as out of context with the 330 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 1: rest of the book. Uh. And we should note that 331 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:49,679 Speaker 1: while the peacock flower that she described in that passage 332 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: was brought back to Europe by other explorers in the 333 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: seventeen hundreds because of the appeal of its showy blossoms, 334 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: that information of its use as an abortifation it was 335 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 1: not widely shared even and though it had been known 336 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: because of this work that Maria had done, and though 337 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,159 Speaker 1: the Suriname book brought praise and admiration, it did not 338 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: bring the wealth she had hoped for. It did not 339 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: stave off difficult times. At the end of Maria's life, 340 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,880 Speaker 1: she really struggled to bring in enough money to sustain herself. 341 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: To drum up cash, she painted flowers and sold her 342 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: work for likely far less than it was worth in 343 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: most cases. And she also began selling the many and 344 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 1: varied specimens that she had acquired over her life, and 345 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: even used her connections to collectors to purchase more of 346 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: them and then flip them to make a little more money. 347 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: She continued to work, and she began collecting new insects 348 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 1: as soon as the last illustrations for her surname book 349 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: were completed. She also published revisions of her previous books 350 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,360 Speaker 1: and cases. Where new information about the insects became known, 351 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: she would update the illustrations and annotations to include the 352 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:59,439 Speaker 1: most current information. Maria's daughter, Johanna, who was also an 353 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: artist and was not the one she took on that trip, 354 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: followed that trail blazed by her mother and her sister Dorotea, 355 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 1: and she actually moved to Surinam permanently in seventeen eleven, 356 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: taking her husband with her. And the following year Maria, 357 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: who had liquidated most of her collections at that point, 358 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: really had a big sort of shift where she stopped 359 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:25,120 Speaker 1: corresponding regularly with friends and business associates, and seventeen fifteen, 360 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: Marian had a stroke, possibly related to the fever that 361 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,919 Speaker 1: she had contracted in Surinam. She had been working on 362 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: another caterpillar book, but the project sat largely dormant after 363 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 1: that due to a partial paralysis. Her son in law 364 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: and Dorotea's second husband, Swiss Baroque painter George Zel painted 365 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: Maria's portrait in these years near the end of her life, 366 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,880 Speaker 1: and in it she is surrounded by curiosities and specimens 367 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 1: from her collection. Maria Zebulla Marian died on January seventeen seventeen. 368 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,439 Speaker 1: She was sixty nine. A few days later, all of 369 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 1: her remaining watercolors were bought for the Tsar of Russia, 370 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: Peter the First. As a result of the Czar's interest 371 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 1: in her illustrations, Maria's daughter Dorotea was offered a job 372 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 1: in St. Petersburg as the official scientific illustrator for the Tsar, 373 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: and nearly one hundred years after her death, Maria's work 374 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 1: was still influencing scientific illustrators. In eighteen o one, English 375 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: botanist and zoologist George Shaw included an illustration of a 376 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: frog in his book General Zoology Amphibia, and that frog 377 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 1: was named the Marian frog or Rana marianna. It would 378 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 1: later come to be known by the scientific name Trachycephalus venulosis, 379 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: or by the more common identifiers of vained tree frog 380 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: or common milk frog. The decades of observing insects and 381 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: plants and taking copious notes on their life cycles. That 382 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 1: Maria did significantly advanced the scientific community's knowledge of entomology 383 00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 1: and botany. Unfortunately, some poor reproductions of her work that 384 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 1: were published in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries really damaged 385 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: her reputations. You would examine these sloppily executed prince and 386 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,640 Speaker 1: that led them to believe that she had not been 387 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 1: as skilled as she really was. And that time gap 388 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: before the criticism of her work began is a really 389 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: interesting aspect of her career and how her work was 390 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: viewed at different points in history. At the dawn of 391 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 1: the eighteenth century, when Marian published her book on surinam, 392 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 1: it was really well received and it actually wasn't until 393 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 1: the nineteenth century that people started to question things like 394 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 1: the split proboscis on the sphinx moth and the bird 395 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: eating tarantula. As we mentioned, some of the problem was 396 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,159 Speaker 1: due to bad reproductions that just didn't capture the fine 397 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 1: and careful details that she had poured into every illustration, 398 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 1: but some of the problem can also be traced to 399 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: the shifting role of women in European society. When disbelievers 400 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: of the nineteenth century saw elements and Mary and Marian's 401 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: work that they thought were incorrect. They wrote her off 402 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: as a silly woman who must not have understood what 403 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 1: she was looking at, never mind that she had actually 404 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: already advanced entomology significantly while she was alive. Yeah, she 405 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,360 Speaker 1: got written off because she was a woman a lot, 406 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 1: which really kind of stunk. But thankfully, despite those criticisms, 407 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 1: uh one, she was proved correct on most of them, 408 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,239 Speaker 1: and to her work has once again become recognized as 409 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: a really important contribution both to science and to art, 410 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,199 Speaker 1: so much so that her book on seranoms Insects was 411 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: actually republished at the end of last year, and just 412 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,360 Speaker 1: a few days from when this episode will air, there 413 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,159 Speaker 1: will actually be a symposium on her work in Amsterdam, 414 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: So she kind of is becoming really really popular again, 415 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: which I love because again, her illustrations are so beautiful. Um, 416 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: I could just gaze at them all day, and it 417 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: makes sense that she was trained by a Dutch Golden 418 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: Age painter when you look at her her illustrations. And 419 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: I don't know why my brain never made that connection before. Well, 420 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: and I had seen her illustrations before, but I knew 421 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:07,120 Speaker 1: virtually nothing about her life or even how long ago 422 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 1: it was like, in my head, illustrations with the level 423 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: of skill and detail that she had would would have 424 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:20,359 Speaker 1: been a little later recent, right, And that's because they 425 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,439 Speaker 1: were so good in many cases, and she had so 426 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: perfectly captured things that there they were used for. I 427 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,359 Speaker 1: mean still they get referred to so uh. You know, 428 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: that's why they seem like they must be more recent, 429 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 1: because we still see them in textbooks on occasion. And 430 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 1: of course I do know that there was plenty of 431 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 1: scientific work going on before this point, but a lot 432 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: of a lot of their aspects do seem to come 433 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: off as a little more recent than they really were. Yeah, 434 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,360 Speaker 1: and again, her work was so amazingly good that that's 435 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 1: why it feels more modern than it was. He has 436 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:55,959 Speaker 1: some listener mail for us. I do. I have to 437 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: have two short things. The first one is from our 438 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,879 Speaker 1: listener Mary, and she says, high ladies, I teach freshman composition, 439 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: and I've always heard colleagues say they don't really know 440 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 1: a text until they teach it. Your podcast recently led 441 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 1: me to a fascinating manifestation of that fact. I listened 442 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: to the podcast regularly, and I'm always finding interesting points 443 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: to share with my classes or interesting ways to make them. 444 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,160 Speaker 1: This time, I was teaching about eighteenth century poet Mary 445 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 1: Lupour's poems Mira to Octavia, and I discovered a new 446 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: tidbit thanks to you. She references Tico Brahey, which I 447 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,200 Speaker 1: didn't know when I studied it years back. It was 448 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,360 Speaker 1: all your podcast. I also used your podcast on Great 449 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,199 Speaker 1: Zimbabwe to talk about the dangers of approaching research with 450 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 1: a theory you wish to support rather than a question 451 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: to be answered. Thank you for the great teaching material, Mary, Mary. 452 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: First of all, thank you for being an educator. Second, 453 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: it's an honor that we could help. Uh. Super cool. 454 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 1: I'm always so grateful when teachers write us, because I'm 455 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: just grateful they're dedicated teachers out there educating the minds 456 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:54,920 Speaker 1: of tomorrow. I mean their minds now. But you know 457 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: what I'm saying, tomorrow's leaders. Uh. The other thing is 458 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: kind of a little bit of a nebulous thing because 459 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: there was a tiny note put in this parcel for 460 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,199 Speaker 1: me that said, don't you don't have to read this 461 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: on the air. But I just want to say to 462 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,919 Speaker 1: the person that sent me the three fashion books, I 463 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 1: got them and they are amazing. Thank you. Um their 464 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: heaven so so uh. That is our listener mail for today. 465 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: Maybe you would like to write to us, you can 466 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 1: do so at History Podcast at how stuff works dot com. 467 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 1: You can also reach out to us across the spectrum 468 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: of social media, where we appear as missed in History 469 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: pretty much everywhere. So that's on Twitter at misst in history, 470 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 1: on Facebook dot com slash mist in history, at mist 471 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,159 Speaker 1: in history dot tumbler dot com, at pinterest dot com 472 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,879 Speaker 1: slash misst in history, and on Instagram as at misst 473 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,440 Speaker 1: in history. If you would like to do a little 474 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 1: research of your own, whether that be on insects or 475 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 1: plants or anything else, you can go to our parents site, 476 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 1: how stuff Works, type in your search term in the 477 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: search bar and you will get a plethora of interesting 478 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 1: things to look at. You can also visit me and 479 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: Tracy at missed in history dot com, where we have 480 00:27:56,040 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: back episodes of every podcast episode that has ever insted 481 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: of the show from long before we were involved to 482 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: present day, as well as notes on any of the 483 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,160 Speaker 1: shows that Tracy and I have worked on together. So 484 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: we encourage you please come and visit us at misston 485 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: History dot com and how Stuff Works dot com. For 486 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics, is It, 487 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: How stop works dot com.