1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: Well, well, well you're out of town again on an 2 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: election rehab, a political we all need that. I literally 3 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: I don't blame you. I am so emotionally dreamed this week. 4 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 1: It's just it's too much, too much. I figured if 5 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: I've stayed in my house, I would just see to 6 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: the news and it's it's not changing. Yeah, I totally get, 7 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: totally get to totally get it. Well, the show must 8 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:41,560 Speaker 1: go on, as we know, so even even the Chip 9 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: is out of town, we wanted to put up an 10 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 1: act casual this week. This is actually one of the 11 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: questions that you guys have asked consistently since we started 12 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: talking about sex and dating um, and it's the topic 13 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: of porn, masturbation, What is normal in a relationship? What 14 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: is uh not? Okay? How do you get to a 15 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: place of feeling comfortable with your partner about this topic? 16 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: I mean, ship, what do you think about all this stuff? 17 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 1: These topics are tough, I mean look, and they're they're 18 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: so personal. It's even when it comes to like not 19 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 1: being in our relationship like I have, you know, me 20 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: and everybody I all of my friends had a different 21 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: relationship with for yeah, yeah, I can't imagine um you 22 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: know what it must be like when it comes to 23 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: like having to disclose your relationship with foreign to somebody 24 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: else and then totally in order to have healthy relationship, 25 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: you have to be honest about everything. So there's probably 26 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: some people that it works. It's like perfect for two people. 27 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: They're like right on the same page, and it's like good, 28 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: um to sort of disclose that. So I'm kind of 29 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: I'm really excited to hear um you know, more about 30 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: it from a professional trance versus you know, our our 31 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: informed opinions. Well, as you said, everyone kind of has 32 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: their own yeah, I mean everyone does have their own 33 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,919 Speaker 1: relationship with this topic. It's a tough topic to talk about. 34 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: There's a lot of shame around this topic. So we 35 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: didn't want to just give you guys information based off 36 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: of our personal opinion, which you know, that's what we 37 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 1: typically do want act casual, but this felt a little 38 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: bigger to me because obviously having different relationships with this 39 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: this uh topic. I've said that like four times now, 40 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: but you and I are even different, and so we 41 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: can't give just one thought on what is right and 42 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 1: what is wrong. And I think it does vary for relationships. 43 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: So I brought in Dr David Gary, and he has 44 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: been on the Valats podcast before. He is a sex 45 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 1: therapist in Nashville. He is an expert on all of 46 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 1: these topics and he's so great and so informed, and 47 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,359 Speaker 1: every time I talk to him about something, I feel 48 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 1: like it makes really hard topics a lot easier to digest. 49 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: So he and I had a conversation earlier today. Chip 50 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: you haven't even heard it yet, but I'm really excited 51 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: for you to hear it because it was super were informative. Yeah, 52 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: so hopefully we answered the questions for you guys. If 53 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 1: you do still have questions after listening to this podcast, 54 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: please message us at at casual at Velvet's dot com 55 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: or you can slide into my d M s on 56 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: at Velvet's Edge. Um. I just think it's like such 57 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: a fascinating topic. It's something I'm gonna bring into my relationship. 58 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: The tips that he gave on how to deal with 59 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: it and confronted. Uh, maybe it'll be uncomfortable. I don't know. 60 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: We'll see, We'll see how it goes, but hopefully we 61 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:32,959 Speaker 1: can help you guys out today. And here is that conversation. 62 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: So Dr Errian I was telling you that I get 63 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: a lot of questions from listeners just asking about what 64 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: is a healthy amount of masturbation? Um, and then just 65 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: how does corn tie into that. I think most of 66 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: the questions we're getting are from people within relationships, UM, 67 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: and they're just really curious about that topic. I think 68 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: a lot of people can feel sort of threatened by 69 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: this topic, and it's somewhat shameful, is what I've been told, 70 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: or it's hard to talk about with your partners. So 71 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: we're just looking for some clarity and possibly some answers 72 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: to UM. I think maybe a better understanding of what 73 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,839 Speaker 1: would be good for you within a relationship. Maybe even 74 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 1: we can talk about what would be good for you 75 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 1: if you're single. But let's start with the masturbation topic. 76 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: Do you get a lot of people um as clients 77 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: dealing with this within a relationship? I wouldn't say a lot, 78 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: but some, okay, Uh and yeah, it's a good question, um. 79 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 1: And well it's a force concentrated of course. So uh. 80 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: One aspect is if there's a lot of shame and 81 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: our culture connected with masturbation, right Uh, you know it 82 00:04:53,600 --> 00:05:00,159 Speaker 1: used to be called self abuse. Um. And uh, so 83 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: there's that, but the reality is um that our bodies 84 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: are wired for pleasure. Uh. The skin, the internal organs um, 85 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: you know, millions and millions of mergan things whose job 86 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: it is to pick up sensory information and to detect 87 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 1: whether it feels good or feels bad. And even before 88 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 1: an infant can feel emotion, they can sense this feels good, 89 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: this feel is not good, not that they could put 90 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: it into words. They move towards that which feels good 91 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: and move away from that which feels bad. Excuse me. 92 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: Even in utero so um, a baby in its mother's 93 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 1: wound is swimming in the amniotic fluid. Excuse me. In 94 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 1: the arms and legs are waving around kind of swimming, 95 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: you know. Uh. So for a long time, scientists all 96 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 1: of this is random. But then they began seeing what 97 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 1: looked like a pattern, which was that certain parts of 98 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: the body were touched by these hands, in particular of 99 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 1: the baby inside the wound that appeared to be moving randomly. 100 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 1: So they did studies, uh with sonogram imaging, and they 101 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: found that the most common place where the infants hand 102 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 1: touched on the body was the mouth. The next most 103 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: commonplace the hands touched were the genesis. This is boys 104 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:54,119 Speaker 1: and girls. And this made sense because UH infants are 105 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: very sensitively focused around the mouth because they're gonna need 106 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 1: to eat um. But they're also uh very likely to 107 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: touch their genitals in utero. And the conclusion is that's 108 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: because it feels good. Ah. So this is long before 109 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 1: anybody ever said don't do it, or even before the 110 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: baby is born. There's a more than random tendency to 111 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 1: touch their genitals in utero, and even UH little boy 112 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: babies in utero have been seen with directions. So go ahead, 113 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: logical say. The point of this is to say that 114 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: it is entirely natural and normal to want to touch 115 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: our genitals. So where did it come from that it 116 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: was self abuse? Do you know the history behind that? Were? 117 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: At least part of it goes back in the Judeo 118 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: Christian heritage. Somewhere in the Hebrew Bible, the Old Testament, 119 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: there was a guy whose name was h n a 120 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: n and Uh. The story is he uh masturbated and ejaculated, 121 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: so he spilled his seeds and that was viewed as 122 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: a sin because what you're supposed to do with sin 123 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: with sperm is to make babies. So that's called the 124 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: sin of Onanism named after the guy. So there's that, 125 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:46,439 Speaker 1: and that that may be the most the largest contributor 126 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: to this cultural sense we have is there's something shameful, bad, wrong, 127 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: sinful about masturbation. Yeah, I mean I do feel like, Um, 128 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: that is definitely the mentality that I grew up with, 129 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: for sure. Um. And then I've noticed a major shift. 130 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: And I don't know if this is just my awareness 131 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: has turned to this, or if this is a cultural 132 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: shift in general, but it seems to me that a 133 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: lot of people are talking more openly now about healthy 134 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: self touch and how important it is to be in 135 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: tune with our bodies enough to know what we need. 136 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: And if that is that kind of you know, pleasurable touch, 137 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: as you're saying, then that is what we need in 138 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: the moment and that's not necessarily a bad thing. Have 139 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: you noticed this shift? Yeah, I think that gives a 140 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: growing shift. Um. There's there's plenty of people who aren't 141 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,599 Speaker 1: in that way, I believe, who feel very uncomfortable with 142 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: even the idea of touching themselves right, But there are 143 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: many more people, uh, it looks to me like who 144 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: are much more comfortable with this, much more from about it, 145 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 1: more able to talk Chris or partners about it, um 146 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: and so that it's not like secretive. Okay, Well, that 147 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 1: actually brings me to the main point that I would 148 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: want to talk about, because I think when I'm getting 149 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: these questions a lot of times, like I said, it's 150 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: from women within a relationship, and their big concern is 151 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:26,439 Speaker 1: about the secrecy piece of it. It doesn't necessarily I'm 152 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,559 Speaker 1: not sure if it's the actual masturbation, but it's the secrecy, 153 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: and especially you get porn involved. I think it can 154 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: feel threatening to a relationship. So if let's say you 155 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: are in a relationship and um, you're having sex consistently, 156 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 1: what then would um you tell someone who was they're 157 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: finding out that their partner was also masturbating as well, Like, 158 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: what would the mentality be behind that? Well, I think 159 00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: it depends on the um relationship and on the nature 160 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:05,080 Speaker 1: of the agreements that they have with each other. And 161 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:11,959 Speaker 1: this is this is a um, huge missing piece for many, many, 162 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 1: many relationships, um and um uh. It's that there are 163 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: often a lot of assumptions made, Oh, we're together, Oh 164 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: we're committed, Oh we love each other, or we're married, 165 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: whatever the form of the relationship is, and then the 166 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: assumption is, therefore X Y and Z will not happen. 167 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: We don't need to talk about it. But but I 168 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: just know it, And then X Y or Z does happen, 169 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: and people are really upset and hurt and angry and 170 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: all of that. So I just think it's really a 171 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: fundamental importance in a relationship that matters to both people 172 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 1: are however, men of people are in it. Uh, that 173 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 1: there is open discussion of what each partner needs and 174 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: wants and um uh, what the boundaries are and what's okay, 175 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 1: what's not okay. And even people that decide to have 176 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: an open relationship and they get that far, they need 177 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: to be really clear about, well, this is okay and 178 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: this isn't okay. Um, I want to know about it. 179 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:41,679 Speaker 1: I don't want to know about it, um and maybe 180 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: I want to hear every detail or uh, you know, 181 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:51,959 Speaker 1: you can do anything with your other partners success x 182 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:56,319 Speaker 1: Y or Z looked him in the eye or kissed 183 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: them or call them back or what you know. It's 184 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: it's highly um unique to each relationship. But people need 185 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: to have these conversations. I've had a number of clients 186 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: over the years who have come to see me for infidelity. Uh, 187 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: and these were in open relationships, but the agreements were 188 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: violated and it feels teritable. And the agreements you've made 189 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 1: about the parameters of your partnership have been violated. So 190 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: there really isn't a straightforward answer of like maceration is 191 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: good or bad for a relationship. It's mostly what I'm 192 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: hearing you say about the communication within the partnership and 193 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: the boundaries and the understanding that you set up with 194 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 1: your partner. Yeah, there is no one size fits all. 195 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: There is no quote normal healthy. Um yeah, I think 196 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: um ah. There are questions about of ways in which 197 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: certain behaviors can harm the person or the relationship. For example, 198 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: if someone is secretively masturbating ten times a day and uh, 199 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: not showing up for work, not paying attention to their partner, 200 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: not taking care of the kids, not paying the bills, 201 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: or whatever. So if if there is a behavior that's 202 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: out of control as measured by it's harming the person 203 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: or the relationship, uh, then then that's a serious issue. 204 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: And that's what you know commonly is called sexual addiction, 205 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: which term I don't like because it's not really actuate 206 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: and it's a misnoment. Well, if somebody has a high 207 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: sex drive and the other partner is uncomfortable, it's really 208 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 1: it's that, well, you're just a sex addict. UM. It's 209 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: also used as if it's a thing, as if it's 210 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: a UM recognized term for a mental problem. It is 211 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: not an official diagnosis. It was popularized by Pat Carnes, 212 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: who UM trains UM UH sex addiction therapists UM and. 213 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: But it's not like it's not an official diagnosis in 214 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual that the American Psychiatric Association 215 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: maintains UM. But that's not to say that people don't 216 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: have problems at times with what we call how to 217 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: control of sexual behavior. That's just a more precise way 218 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: to to UM name that are described UM and it's 219 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: it's related to other kinds of compulsive behave gambling or shopping, 220 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: or it's the compulsivity of that though was what I Yes, okay, 221 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: so right, it's out of control, it's affecting your life. 222 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: Your life becomes a manageable That all makes sense to me. 223 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: If that's not the case, and this is just you know, 224 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's like a thing that happens every 225 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: once in a while. UM the main thing that I 226 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: hear again and again from you is just the communication 227 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: being the thing that matters the most. I do feel 228 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 1: like like I personally would sit here and go how 229 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 1: do I have conversation? So do you have recommend recommendations 230 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 1: for people of how to approach this topic, because, as 231 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 1: we stated earlier, there's a lot of shame around this. 232 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: Often I think people can become defensive almost and then 233 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: it's like, really the secrecy could either amp up if 234 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 1: they don't feel comfortable being honest or um or there's 235 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: accusations things like that. So do you have suggestions for 236 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 1: people on how to approach this topic with their partner? Yeah? 237 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 1: And it is hard um for several reasons. There's a 238 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 1: lot of shame around masturbation. Also, sex in our culture 239 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: is a pretty chadboot topic. Yeah, so it's not easy 240 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: to talk about it. Most most of us grew up 241 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 1: in homes where it wasn't talked about that much. What 242 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 1: I got in my house was don't do it right. 243 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:57,880 Speaker 1: Uh So. Um, so we're not well trained and comfortable 244 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,400 Speaker 1: and we can talk about finances, or we can talk 245 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: about schedules or all these other things that we've grown 246 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:09,439 Speaker 1: up talking about and hearing people talk about UM. So 247 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: maybe a way to start is to say, you know, 248 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:14,680 Speaker 1: this is hard for me to talk about this, but 249 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: I have a curiosity or confused, or I'm scared, or 250 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 1: my feelings are hurt, whatever it might be. But too 251 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: UM to try to be as open and as vulnerable 252 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: as possible. UM. It's easy, UM to lead with anger 253 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 1: or blame. I know what you're doing in there. You 254 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: shouldn't be doing that. UM. That's not an invitation to 255 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: an open conversation, and that you're that's very likely to 256 00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: lead to a defensive UM response and avoidance and say 257 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 1: more secretly, UM, Yes, the female partner is feeling trendned. 258 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 1: S Uh. Boyfriend or partner is watching porn UM and 259 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 1: she's quote taught him several times. Mean he walked in 260 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: on him or saw the evidence on the song in 261 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:36,120 Speaker 1: the computer. Um Uh it's she's she may be feeling threatened. 262 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 1: He's looking at these perfect images of these airbrushed women 263 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: who are um athletic and always ready to sacon, ready 264 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 1: for anything, And how could she possibly compare with that? Um? 265 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 1: And for many men, probably for most men, that comes 266 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 1: as a surprise them because they're not thinking about uh, 267 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:11,120 Speaker 1: how much they prefer the images on the screen. It's 268 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:15,359 Speaker 1: just that that's a highly efficient way to get off 269 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 1: mm hmm. Yeah, and um, they're not confused by the 270 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 1: difference between their partners and the images on the screen. Uh. 271 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: But female partners sometimes have a hard time believing that 272 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:42,880 Speaker 1: that's that's not even possible. I don't believe you. Why 273 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: don't you approach me more? And so that's a key issue, um, 274 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:55,159 Speaker 1: which is that because masturbating to porn is so efficient, 275 00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: it requires no negotiations with anybody. The Internet is always available, um, 276 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,439 Speaker 1: and so all somebody needs is a little bit of 277 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:12,919 Speaker 1: privacy and a good Internet connection. They can have more 278 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: orgasm pretty fast. Yeah. In real life with real people, 279 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: it's way more complex. It's also way more satisfying, but 280 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: it takes more efforts. So I think, um, masturbating to 281 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 1: porn is essentially a lazy person's approach shoes sex. That's 282 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: an interesting way to look at it. I actually think 283 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: that would resonate. I mean, I I know for me 284 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,120 Speaker 1: that I just heard that, and it put a lot 285 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: of peace into my mind about that because I think 286 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:50,399 Speaker 1: as women that is true. You know, it's it's can 287 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: be threatening in some capacity because porn is highly geared 288 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 1: to heterosexual men, and it's it isn't reality. It's not 289 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 1: necessarily even the kind of sex that would satisfy a 290 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 1: woman at all, And so it's confusing as a woman 291 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: if you're like, that's what's getting you off, but like, 292 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: what does that mean about how you feel about me sexually? 293 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: You know, like that just it can be a little 294 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: bit confusing and threatening in that way because you're like, 295 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: I'm not going to ever be like that, Like that's 296 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 1: just not the way that sex would be satisfying for 297 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: a woman. Yes, yes, um, and it is geared to 298 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: the target audience of heater sexual men um um. But 299 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: it's it's so so here's an analogy. It's it's like 300 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: back in which you go to the movie theater and 301 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,439 Speaker 1: watch a movie. Uh, you go to the mall and 302 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: you go see an action movie that has all these 303 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,719 Speaker 1: car chase scenes and people are driving, you know, jumping 304 00:22:54,720 --> 00:23:00,640 Speaker 1: over buildings and cars and stuff. And then you kind 305 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: of got to the parking lot after movie is open, 306 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 1: getting your car and you put your seatbelt on and 307 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: you use your blinker when you make a turn, and 308 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,880 Speaker 1: you're always driving right side of the road and you're 309 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:16,120 Speaker 1: probably gonna, you know, mostly onto the speed limit. That's 310 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: because we know the difference between what we saw on 311 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: the screen and the action movie how people drive and 312 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 1: how we drive in real life. We've been riding in 313 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: cars our entire life, and we've we took driver's head 314 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: once upon a time, and um, so we know the 315 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: difference in driving cars between what we see for entertainment 316 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: on the big screen and how we drive in real life. 317 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: We don't have that reality check in our culture with porn. 318 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 1: Porn is essentially entertainment. I sometimes say to my younger clients, 319 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: you do know, of course, that porn is not a documentary, right, 320 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:08,160 Speaker 1: And sometimes I get some funny looks like really yeah. 321 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 1: And the sad reality is that young people these days 322 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: get probably of what they think they know about sex 323 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 1: from watching porn, right we I think we talked about 324 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,399 Speaker 1: that last time, of just the younger generations are I 325 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: think we talked about that last time, that the younger 326 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:31,439 Speaker 1: generations are equating porn to realistic sex and it's not 327 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: at all, but that is what they're learning from, and 328 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: that is why they're having a harder time being satisfied 329 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: in actual sexual experiences versus porn and masturbation, right right, 330 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: interesting yeah, um, and so uh there's a big challenger. 331 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: How do the um young people or people of any 332 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: age learned how to speak openly with their partner about 333 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:13,440 Speaker 1: uh sex, their fears, their desires, their questions are ignorance um, 334 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: because we're all supposed to be cool and on top 335 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: of this, um and even um having the air course 336 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,400 Speaker 1: for the first time, I think a lot of young 337 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,120 Speaker 1: people do that to get it out of the way. 338 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 1: So so they're not burdened with being a virgin anymore. 339 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: So now they've you know, um been initiated or something 340 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 1: into adulthood. But uh, um, learning how to create and 341 00:25:50,880 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: maintain a mutually satisfying sexual relationship with another adult is 342 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 1: a hugely complex thing. Yeah. Uh, sometimes I say to 343 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 1: my clients, so, uh, being in a long term incement 344 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: relationship is harder, maybe the hardest thing humans trying to do. 345 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: Putting somebody on the moon was easy. I mean I 346 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 1: would actually agree with that. Nothing challenges me more than 347 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: in my life than my relationships. That is the truth. Yeah. 348 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: Yeah and um um so yeah, so I was reading 349 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:42,680 Speaker 1: a bunch of articles before we got on the phone 350 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 1: and just to see kind of what people we're talking 351 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,640 Speaker 1: about on this topic. And from psychology today, they were 352 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: saying that there are while most people don't view, you know, 353 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,119 Speaker 1: watching porn as cheating, there are some people who do. 354 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,080 Speaker 1: And the main but the main deal is sort of 355 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,879 Speaker 1: like what you were just saying, it's the secrecy and 356 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: that that is the bigger issue because even how you 357 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 1: just described it, the parts about its entertainment or it's 358 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 1: the easy way out, it's the lazy man's game at 359 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 1: sex like that makes sense to me, and I actually 360 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: can buy into that in most cases. I do think 361 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,399 Speaker 1: there's some cases where you know, it goes extreme, but 362 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: that's the same with anything, alcohol, drugs, all of it. 363 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:28,880 Speaker 1: But um, in most cases it's not necessarily viewed as 364 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 1: cheating as long as the conversations are happening. So I 365 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 1: think in a lot of relationships the conversations just aren't happening. 366 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: Would you agree with that? Absolutely? Okay, So the main 367 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,919 Speaker 1: goal go ahead. So I just want to say, in 368 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 1: my office, I hear a lot of people talking about 369 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: their views as their partner masturbating, right, And I don't 370 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 1: think we have any numbers on this, and It may 371 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,880 Speaker 1: depend on the age and so forces folks, But UM, 372 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:08,160 Speaker 1: it's it's not a minuscule amount of relationships in which 373 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: the belief is that it's cheated. Where do we need 374 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: to put fantasy into this equation because I kind of 375 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: I kind of look at porn as a bit of 376 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: like a sexual fantasy or an escape maybe, And I 377 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 1: don't know that I feel like that's a bad thing 378 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,120 Speaker 1: or a good thing. I don't I don't know how 379 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 1: does that affect a relationship to um kind of live 380 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,640 Speaker 1: in a fantasy or allow yourself to go into that, 381 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: Like is that a bad thing for a relationship? I 382 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: think if you know, it can be overdone, Like you 383 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: were saying, anything can be UM. If two people are 384 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: having sex, whatever that means, whether it's in a course 385 00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 1: or other kinds of sexts um, and each each person 386 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: is kind of creating a movie in their heads to 387 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 1: um try to get and maintain more arousal um. Depending 388 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 1: on the relationships that may be okay with those two people. Personally, 389 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: I would be disappointed with that. I want to be 390 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: excited about and into my partner and for her to 391 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: be uh to be doing the same thing in my direction. UM. 392 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: But if two people are okay with doing the other thing, 393 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: that's all right, you know, it's um. There's no law 394 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: against that. It doesn't um create harm. UM. But if 395 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 1: if that's not the understanding two people and one person 396 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 1: learns that's the other person, in order to even participate 397 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: in a sexual act, it needs to be thinking about 398 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 1: somebody else. That could feel very hurtful to them if 399 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 1: that violates the understanding they have about what this relationship was. 400 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: So again it comes back to the the agreements, the 401 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 1: understandings that people have together. Yes, okay, I do agree 402 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 1: with that. I think I meant fantasy more so as 403 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: like when you're watching porn that to me, because it's 404 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 1: like you said, it's entertainment. It's not like to me, 405 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 1: it's not a realistic version of sex at all. So 406 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: if there's certain things happening, then I don't know, maybe 407 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: that's like, oh, this is a dream scenario or whatever. 408 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: UM is that does that affect a real relationship? Uh? 409 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: It doesn't have to, but it also could. It depends 410 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: on what people do with it. And if you know, 411 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: a lot of that depends on the degree in which 412 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: they know and understands that. UM. Depictions of sex on 413 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 1: the screen, even in mainstream Hollywood movies, is somebody's fantasy. Um, 414 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 1: it's not necessarily realized. Um. In fact, that's a lot 415 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: of why to go to the movies to, you know, 416 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 1: go on a fantasy trip. Our culture frowns on anything 417 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: that involves arousal. We think that's um, questionable, possibly shameful, 418 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: maybe dirty, you know, maybe illegal maybe. Um. But uh, 419 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: it seems to me that from a more active perspective, 420 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 1: viewing sex as a natural and normal part of human 421 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: existence that um, um, being excited, um, bisexual material Um 422 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 1: can be perfectly fine. It can be entertainment. Yeah. The 423 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 1: question again comes back to, um, how the agreements or 424 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 1: structured in in the given relationship. Okay, So again it 425 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: goes back to that conversation being the most important part 426 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 1: of this and deciding within your relationship what you are 427 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: okay with not okay with, and coming to an agreeance 428 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 1: with your partner. And by the way, that's not just 429 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 1: one conversation, that's ongoing conversation. What do you mean these 430 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 1: things exhaust me. I just wanted to be a one 431 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: and done in this scenario. It's hard enough. Well, good 432 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: luck with that man. All right, tell me more about that. Well, 433 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 1: all right, it's like you know, um, there's a thing 434 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 1: where parents talking about what if you had to talk 435 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 1: with your you know, your son or your daughter yet sex, 436 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 1: and that gets construed as a talk or the talk 437 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 1: or the big talk, when really, since sex is a national, 438 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 1: warm part of life, it is neglect full at the least, 439 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 1: and possibly could be constrained as abuse to deny children 440 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 1: who are developing meaning from the time they could speak 441 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: on by denying them actually information about your questions and curiosities, 442 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 1: and children do not fail to notice the absence of 443 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: response about anything sexual, and so without being told, h 444 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: kids learn not to talk about anything sexual around grown 445 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 1: ups because people get weird and you get sent to 446 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:19,120 Speaker 1: your running or something. Yeah. Well probably because the grown 447 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 1: ups were never taught how to have the conversations either, 448 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 1: I would imagine, yeah, yeah, um, but back to the 449 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 1: the talk between partners. Um, I think it's just impossible 450 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 1: to anticipate everything. Um, how how you would feel if 451 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:47,800 Speaker 1: your partner glances at someone very attractive across the crowded 452 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 1: running you're at a party. Um, and does that go 453 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,320 Speaker 1: on the list or does that it? Or is that 454 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,919 Speaker 1: something you manage at the time, navigate at the time 455 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,279 Speaker 1: in the car on the way. UM, you know, kind 456 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 1: of hurt my feelings the way you were looking at 457 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:09,320 Speaker 1: so and so. UM, I you know, it scared me 458 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,759 Speaker 1: a little bit. Tell me, tell me what was going on. 459 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 1: Let's figure this out. UM. It's just not possible to 460 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 1: anticipate everything. UM. We're surrounded by attractive people UM in 461 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:31,920 Speaker 1: real life and on screens and then UM photographs and 462 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:44,239 Speaker 1: magazines and everywhere being bill boards, UM and so. I 463 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:50,240 Speaker 1: think in a way it's incumbent upon UM, since our 464 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:54,720 Speaker 1: culture doesn't do a very good job of educating us. 465 00:35:54,760 --> 00:36:00,320 Speaker 1: For people who wants their relationships to be all that 466 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:07,360 Speaker 1: can be fun, satisfying, interesting, growth experiences and so forth, 467 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:14,759 Speaker 1: to um educate themselves about sexuality. And it's more than 468 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,319 Speaker 1: just the mechanics of oh, penis goes into vagina? Got it? 469 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 1: I mean, once upon a time, we'll have to figure 470 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,799 Speaker 1: that out. But we you know, most kids manage that 471 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 1: by I don't know, age twelve or something. But how 472 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,239 Speaker 1: do we talk about tex Is it okay to talk 473 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 1: about tex uh? Um? How do we what? What place 474 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:49,319 Speaker 1: does uh? Sexual attraction and arousal and sexual play have 475 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: in this relationship we're in UM, And sometimes that conversation 476 00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 1: is described as well, find out what's your partner a lot? Okay, 477 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:12,320 Speaker 1: that's a start, but um, that's that's that's too generic. Um. 478 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 1: Each moment is a unique situation. What a person like yesterday, 479 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 1: they may not like today. Um. So so it's kind 480 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 1: of like eating. You know what you ate yesterday, you 481 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 1: might not be hungry for today, are you Like? So 482 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,440 Speaker 1: that's why that's why the conversation would need to happen 483 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:38,680 Speaker 1: more than once. Yeah, that actually makes sense to me too, 484 00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,600 Speaker 1: because I was just thinking about UM. Within a long 485 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,240 Speaker 1: term relationship, you know, there might be a time where 486 00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:48,840 Speaker 1: the woman is pregnant, or they're going through something really stressful, 487 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 1: a parent dies, or there's different circumstances that would maybe 488 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:57,080 Speaker 1: shift this scenario to you're not having as much sex 489 00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,120 Speaker 1: in your relationship and so maybe there's more masturbation, but 490 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:04,800 Speaker 1: like that's still to keep it from crossing a certain line. 491 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,480 Speaker 1: Might still you know, like as things adjust, there might 492 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:14,000 Speaker 1: need to be different conversations that are had around that topic. Yeah. Interesting, interesting, 493 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:19,960 Speaker 1: and it's really important to those conversations not be blaming 494 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:26,400 Speaker 1: or angry. Is there one well, I was gonna say, 495 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,000 Speaker 1: is there one blanket? Blake blanket? Why can I not 496 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,400 Speaker 1: say that word statement that you would recommend as a 497 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 1: leading sentence that could could bring up the topic without 498 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:46,400 Speaker 1: the hostility. So, um, I don't have a statement, but 499 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:52,520 Speaker 1: I have a kind of a guideline. So the person 500 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:57,279 Speaker 1: who wants to start the conversation is feeling something, yes, 501 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:03,560 Speaker 1: and so here she should start the first sentence with 502 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:08,879 Speaker 1: with the word I rather than the word you. You're 503 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:10,840 Speaker 1: always in that room with the door closed. I know 504 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,319 Speaker 1: what's going on in there. That conversation is not going 505 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:22,720 Speaker 1: to go well. Um Uh. In contrast, I feel lonely 506 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 1: out here in the living room, and you're back in 507 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:31,160 Speaker 1: your your room with the door closed, and I feel 508 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:37,279 Speaker 1: I don't know, cut the offer, scared about our relationship 509 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,279 Speaker 1: or lonely, or talk to me about what's what's going on. 510 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:50,920 Speaker 1: So it's about uh, expressing your feelings, and particularly your 511 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:56,120 Speaker 1: vulnerable feelings. Anger is what we call a secondary emotion, 512 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,759 Speaker 1: meaning there's usually some other in emotions underneath that that's 513 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:07,440 Speaker 1: driving it. So I may be scared about something, but 514 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,760 Speaker 1: what comes on my mouths is why do you always 515 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:18,759 Speaker 1: do that? You always do extra y being critical or angry, Well, 516 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:23,800 Speaker 1: that's not vulnerable. So it's kind of protective of myself 517 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,919 Speaker 1: if I say it that way. But the outcome isn't 518 00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,799 Speaker 1: great because the other person won't say, oh yeah, where 519 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:34,919 Speaker 1: you do this and that, or you do this too, 520 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:39,320 Speaker 1: or so it becomes a fight, which can easily escalate. 521 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:47,520 Speaker 1: Being vulnerable, my feelings are hurt, I'm scared, I'm worried. Um, 522 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:54,399 Speaker 1: I'm confused. Um is more of an invitation to connect. YEA, 523 00:40:55,640 --> 00:41:00,560 Speaker 1: being critical or angry is a shove okay uh, and 524 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:04,200 Speaker 1: the other person is to show back. That's probably a 525 00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:08,960 Speaker 1: good idea for conversations within couples in general. Like I 526 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,319 Speaker 1: actually was thinking through, I'm like, oh wow, that would 527 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,840 Speaker 1: be a great way to approach it, any kind of conversation. 528 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,040 Speaker 1: This one just seems to be especially heightened because of 529 00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:21,799 Speaker 1: the cultural shame around it, and I think almost like 530 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,040 Speaker 1: encouraged secrecy. Like I'm that's what I was saying. I 531 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,239 Speaker 1: am finding a shift happening a little bit with that. 532 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,000 Speaker 1: But just if you grew up, i know, especially in 533 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:35,040 Speaker 1: the South, very taboo topic and encouraged not to talk 534 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:40,680 Speaker 1: about that at all, or you were shamed, I mean truly. Yeah, 535 00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:43,920 Speaker 1: very interesting, dr Arian, thank you so much. I feel 536 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:47,480 Speaker 1: like this gives a very good foundation for people and 537 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:51,200 Speaker 1: hopefully some comfort in this topic and just approaching it 538 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:55,279 Speaker 1: with your partner um from not a shamed place and 539 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,040 Speaker 1: from an open place so that you can keep evolving 540 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:02,560 Speaker 1: within the relationship. I really appreciate that. Yeah, yeah, I'm 541 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:06,600 Speaker 1: glad you're interested in And then your listeners are Yeah, 542 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:08,319 Speaker 1: I'll keep you posted because they give us a lot 543 00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,319 Speaker 1: of singers, so we might be having to call you back. 544 00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:18,120 Speaker 1: Yeah awesome. Thanks so much for being here, and thank 545 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:19,040 Speaker 1: you guys for listening.