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Speaker 1: On this week's episode of Cultivating her Space.

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Speaker 2: Crying is one of the most just authentic releases that

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Speaker 2: you can have, And when you are really crying, there's

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Speaker 2: not much curation that you can do there. It just

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Speaker 2: comes out, comes out, and Lord, have mercy, let it

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Speaker 2: be a don't let it be an ugly cry, and

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Speaker 2: you're just like, this is it. I mean, it feels

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Speaker 2: good after and sometimes in the moment it feels good,

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Speaker 2: but it's just you don't have control over that. It's

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Speaker 2: like your body is letting go of what needs to

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Speaker 2: be released.

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Speaker 3: Hey, lady, have you ever felt like the world just

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Speaker 3: doesn't get you? Well? We do.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Cultivating her Space, the podcast dedicated to.

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Speaker 1: Uplifting and empowering women like you.

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Speaker 3: We're your hosts, doctor Dominique Grussard and educator and psychologists.

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Speaker 2: And Terry Lomax, a techie and transformational speaker.

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Speaker 3: Join us every week for authentic conversations about everything from

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Speaker 3: fibroids to fake friends as we create space for black

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Speaker 3: women to just be.

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Speaker 2: Before we dive in, make sure you hit that follow

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Speaker 2: button and leave us a quick five star review.

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Speaker 1: Lady.

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Speaker 2: We are black founded and black owned, and your support

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Speaker 2: will help us reach even more women like you.

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Speaker 3: Now, let's get into this week's episode of Cultivating her Space.

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Speaker 2: If you're feeling stuck, overwhelmed, or unsure of your next steps,

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Speaker 2: this is for you. Hey, lady, is Tea here and

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Speaker 2: I just want to invite you to my free goal

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Speaker 2: map like a pro coaching workshop, where I'll share the

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Speaker 2: five proven steps to get unstuck and achieve your goals.

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Speaker 2: Whether you're feeling overwhelmed by all your ideas, juggling scattered ideas,

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Speaker 2: or maybe you just need confidence to start, this workshop

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Speaker 2: will give you the clarity, tools and the motivation to

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Speaker 2: take back control. Reserve your spot for free by visiting

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Speaker 2: her Space podcast dot com and clicking on the goal

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Speaker 2: map like a pro webinar link. Lady, don't miss this

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Speaker 2: chance to go to a roadmap that fits your life

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Speaker 2: and set you up for success.

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Speaker 1: I hope to see you there.

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Speaker 3: Our quote of the day, being a strong black woman

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Speaker 3: doesn't mean that you can't be vulnerable. It's okay to cry.

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Speaker 3: It's okay if you're having a bad day. It's okay

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Speaker 3: if some days you feel like giving up. It's okay

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Speaker 3: if you need to ask for help. That quote comes

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Speaker 3: to us from Stephanie Lahart. Now, I do feel the

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Speaker 3: need to truly, truly, truly reread this one for the

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Speaker 3: folks in the back, because I know that a lot

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Speaker 3: of us have struggled or are struggling with vulnerability, and

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Speaker 3: we need to hear this. Being a strong black woman

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Speaker 3: doesn't mean that you can't be vulnerable. It's okay to cry.

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Speaker 3: It's okay if you're having a bad day. It's okay.

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Speaker 3: If some days you feel like giving up. It's okay

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Speaker 3: if you need to ask for help. All right, see

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Speaker 3: you hear this, and you know the topic that we're

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Speaker 3: talking about today. What comes up for you?

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Speaker 1: Girl?

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Speaker 2: So first of all, I love, love, love this quote,

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Speaker 2: and lady, this is actually a longer quote that we

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Speaker 2: didn't want to read because it's like it's it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we could discuss it for the whole episode.

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Speaker 2: But I love the entire quote, and I love this

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Speaker 2: particular portion of the quote because I just feel like,

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Speaker 2: for so long, many of us did not have the

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Speaker 2: luxury to lean into that. And now we're in a

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Speaker 2: space in life where we're having more conversations about mental health,

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Speaker 2: about taking off the Superwoman cap because many of us

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Speaker 2: have had to be strong Black women since we were

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Speaker 2: little girls, you know, like we had to be adults

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Speaker 2: and had to do adult things and manage adult responsibilities.

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Speaker 2: And so as you read that quote, I just kind

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Speaker 2: of wanted to like, oh, just like sitting in it,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean, sitting in that quote like

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Speaker 2: a comfy I. It's the comfy couch, you know, So

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Speaker 2: I love it. What about you, don when you hear

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Speaker 2: that quote, When you've read that quote, what came up

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Speaker 2: for you?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: It made me think about how we define what it means,

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Speaker 3: or how we have been told to define what it

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Speaker 3: means to be a strong Black woman, right, And it

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Speaker 3: just makes me think about all the things that previous generations,

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Speaker 3: our current generation has not had the luxury, the privilege,

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Speaker 3: the permission, yes to be because of the society, right,

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Speaker 3: and and just really thinking about how the current space

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Speaker 3: and time that we're in. It just really got me

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Speaker 3: thinking about how are we truly defining vulnerability, specifically for

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Speaker 3: black women, and how do we show up for each

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Speaker 3: other when that's expressed, How do we show up for

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Speaker 3: ourselves when it's expressed? And so I'm looking forward to

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Speaker 3: our conversation today.

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Speaker 1: Oh girl, me too.

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Speaker 2: You gotta be excited, Okay, So let's go ahead and

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Speaker 2: let's get into it. Latest week can dive into this

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Speaker 2: conversation a bit more deeply, and hopefully you have your journals,

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Speaker 2: you can take notes and all that good stuff.

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Speaker 1: But let's just talk about vulnerability. Right.

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Speaker 2: When we often hear vulnerability, it can sound soft or scary, right,

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Speaker 2: or even risky. And I think that you were saying

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Speaker 2: down a lot of us were raised to protect ourselves.

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Speaker 2: Is at all costs right to be strong, to not

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Speaker 2: let people see our cracks. And I know many of

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Speaker 2: us hear what happens in this house stays in the

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Speaker 2: house on the tun nobody our business.

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Speaker 1: Don't let them see you down.

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Speaker 2: Like that's the stuff that we heard, right, But the

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Speaker 2: truth is vulnerability is really where the magic happens. It's

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Speaker 2: what allows us to connect, to heal and to grow.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And I think when I when I hear that, and

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Speaker 4: I think about how we label the strong black woman, right,

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Speaker 4: and to me, that vulnerability is our strength.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: The because when we think about what the when we

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Speaker 3: really break it down, right, and we break down what

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Speaker 3: the word strong means, what strength means, we're speaking of

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Speaker 3: it's viewed in a positive light, and the idea of

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Speaker 3: strength means that it requires more. And so when I

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Speaker 3: think about the word vulnerability and how it's expressed in

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Speaker 3: our society today, to me, vulnerability truly is a strength

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Speaker 3: because it because the way our current society is set

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Speaker 3: up to express vulnerability requires a lot, and we don't

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Speaker 3: want in this current climate that we're in, we need

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Speaker 3: more vulnerability, but it does take it does take a

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Speaker 3: lot to get there. And so I think today what's

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Speaker 3: going to be so beautiful about this conversation is that

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Speaker 3: we're breaking this apart and we're talking more about what

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Speaker 3: vulnerability means. We're talking about why so many of us

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Speaker 3: might resist it. But more importantly, we're going to give

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Speaker 3: you steps on how to practice vulnerability in ways that

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Speaker 3: can be helpful for you.

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Speaker 2: I love that so much because I do think that

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Speaker 2: you said something really powerful down vulnerability. In my opinion

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Speaker 2: and our opinion, I'm sure vulnerability for black women it

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Speaker 2: may look different than vulnerability looks for other people, right,

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Speaker 2: because of the things that we deal with being black women, right,

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Speaker 2: And we're going to get into that in just a bit,

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Speaker 2: but let's talk about some I guess you can call

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Speaker 2: them kickoff questions that we can discuss before we dive

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Speaker 2: into the juicy topic. As we like to say, can

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Speaker 2: you think of or share a time when you witness

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Speaker 2: someone being vulnerable and just talk about how it impacted

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Speaker 2: you or shifted the way you see them or possibly

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Speaker 2: even the way you see yourself.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I you know what immediately comes up for me

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Speaker 3: is not just one instant, but multiple instances of when

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Speaker 3: I see black women crying in public. And when I

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Speaker 3: say crying in public, I mean we could be at

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Speaker 3: a community event and someone share something that's that's powerful

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Speaker 3: or that invokes tears, and I look and I see

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Speaker 3: a black woman crying, right, or someone is sharing their

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Speaker 3: story and they get emotional and they allow the tears

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Speaker 3: to flow. And for me, when I see that, it

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Speaker 3: took a while in my personal life and in therapy

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Speaker 3: it's different, and I'll talk about that a little bit later,

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Speaker 3: but it took a while in my personal life to

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Speaker 3: be in a space where I felt comfortable letting it happen.

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Speaker 1: Right, letting happen for you.

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Speaker 3: No letting it happen for witnessing it happened for someone else, right,

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Speaker 3: Because I think oftentimes the urge is to.

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Speaker 1: Comfort, Oh got you, got you okay?

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Speaker 3: Right? And so or for me, for me, I'll speak

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Speaker 3: for myself. For me, oftentimes it was this urge to

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Speaker 3: want to comfort, which would then shut down the tears

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Speaker 3: or stop their tears, right, yeah. Or I would sit

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Speaker 3: and I would witness, but I would be I would

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Speaker 3: be uncomfortable, yes, and so I would just be silently

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Speaker 3: praying that this would hurry up and be done right,

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Speaker 3: Like I'm grateful that they feel comfortable enough to share

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Speaker 3: in this open space, like, oh, okay, this is great,

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Speaker 3: but let's get this done. Let's move on to the.

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Speaker 1: Next thing, right, yes, yes.

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Speaker 3: And so when I finally got to that space where

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Speaker 3: I got comfortable being able to witness it without the

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Speaker 3: urge to comfort them, yeah, without the internal angst, then

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Speaker 3: those moments became even more powerful.

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Speaker 2: Oh oh my gosh, that just okay, you made me

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Speaker 2: think of like one hundred things, or you were just

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Speaker 2: sharing that. So one of the things I want to

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Speaker 2: say is, it's so interesting that you said that because

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Speaker 2: many of us were not taught, and we haven't been

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Speaker 2: taught how to sit with the discomfort of either our

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Speaker 2: own emotions or someone else's emotions, and like you said,

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Speaker 2: even when like a child cries or someone close to

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Speaker 2: you cries, it's like, let me go, let me go

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Speaker 2: comfort them. Usually it could be various responses, but usually

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Speaker 2: it's let me comfort them so they can stop crying.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes it's so important to just let it be.

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Speaker 2: And it makes me think about a few of my

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Speaker 2: initial therapy sessions that I have when I first started therapy,

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Speaker 2: when I would get I feel like I came to

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Speaker 2: the session more like talking about things from like an

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Speaker 2: intellectual or like you know what I mean, from the

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Speaker 2: intellectuals that were like this happened, and I understand that

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Speaker 2: this happened, and so this is how I reacted. So

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Speaker 2: then they started getting me to tell a bit of

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Speaker 2: a story and the asking why.

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Speaker 1: You know this down because you do this every day.

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Speaker 2: Dive it deeper and girl, when I would start to

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Speaker 2: get emotional and cry, like pausing and we take a

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Speaker 2: deep breath of me stop like wa wait, stay right there.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to speed past this part. But it's like

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Speaker 2: sit with that for a minute, which is so uncomfortable,

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Speaker 2: but it's like, oh, it just feels like such a

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Speaker 2: relief when you do that. Okay, I want to share

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Speaker 2: something because I saw this happen recently. So there was

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Speaker 2: a student of mine from years ago when I was

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Speaker 2: managing a residence hall at a university. There was a

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Speaker 2: student of mine who lived there and they were having

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Speaker 2: they were experiencing some challenges like we make conflicts whatever,

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Speaker 2: And recently I saw them post something online and they

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Speaker 2: basically just shared share their story in such a major

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Speaker 2: way on a big platform, and it was so touching.

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Speaker 2: And I literally I don't often comment on people's post

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Speaker 2: that much. I'm more like, Okay, I'm gonna post, respond

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Speaker 2: to who responds to me, and then go. But it

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Speaker 2: was so compelling and so beautiful, and I was just like,

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Speaker 2: oh my gosh. I just couldn't believe that she had

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Speaker 2: been through all that she had been through.

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Speaker 1: And I didn't.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't even aware of that when I was close

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Speaker 2: to her and she was living in the building that

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Speaker 2: I managed. But I thought about how it made me feel,

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Speaker 2: and it made me have more compassion for her, right,

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Speaker 2: it made me have I feel like sometimes when someone's vulnerable,

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Speaker 2: it can also you can have more patience with them

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Speaker 2: and understand like, oh, well, you know what they may

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Speaker 2: be showing up this way because this happened, right and

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Speaker 2: also lend more understanding.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, and as you were saying, then would what

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Speaker 3: came up for me? Is this notion of what would

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Speaker 3: it really be like if we engaged with everyone from

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Speaker 3: that lens automatically right like this all because we hear

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Speaker 3: this phrase all the time. You don't know what someone

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Speaker 3: might be going through, right like we hear it it

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Speaker 3: and so but how many of us actually engage from

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Speaker 3: that perspective of we don't know what someone is coming

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Speaker 3: to us with, what they might be going through, what

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Speaker 3: they might have just encountered right before they got to us.

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Speaker 3: And if we engage with a little bit more compassion,

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Speaker 3: how much how much more we would know and understand

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Speaker 3: and then be able to connect differently with other people?

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Speaker 1: Spot on, Amen to that. I love it.

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Speaker 3: I feel like we need to maybe do a whole

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Speaker 3: different episode on like compassion right like what it means,

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Speaker 3: what it means to truly show up from a compassionate

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Speaker 3: care in space.

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Speaker 1: I'm writing it down a new episode coming soon.

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Speaker 3: Lady, And if we don't get this episode to you sooner,

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Speaker 3: send us a message and let us know, because oftentimes

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Speaker 3: what happens, lady, is we are in this episode. We

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Speaker 3: are recording an episode, and we're talking and we're like vibing,

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Speaker 3: and we're like, this needs to be Oh yeah, this

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Speaker 3: is an idea, this needs to be an episode. And

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Speaker 3: we either if we don't write it down right away,

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Speaker 3: sometimes we forget okay and then yeah, and so hold

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Speaker 3: us accountable so that we can get you these great episodes.

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Speaker 2: Please do because we respond to our dms, we look

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Speaker 2: at them, we do our best to at least at

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Speaker 2: her space podcast Lianes Intagram. So let us know, pull

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Speaker 2: up because we love to hear your feedback and we

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Speaker 2: will listen.

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Speaker 1: To dom should we do?

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Speaker 2: Should we start by defining vulnerability because I feel like

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Speaker 2: there's so many different definitions floating out there and it'd

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Speaker 2: be nice to ground us before we get into the

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Speaker 2: meat of the topic.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, all right, So y'all, y'all know I love

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Speaker 3: a good defining the term, operationalizing the definition so that

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Speaker 3: we know how we are using it in this space.

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Speaker 3: So in this space, how we're going to be talking

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Speaker 3: about vulnerability is from the perspective of vulnerability. Is this

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Speaker 3: honest emotional exposure, right that the raw emotions and showing

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Speaker 3: up as your authentic self, right, but also recognizing that

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Speaker 3: vulnerability requires that it's a balance, that you're not oversharing,

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Speaker 3: that you are intentional right, but the overarching goal is

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Speaker 3: to allow other people to see the real you. It

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Speaker 3: means admitting mistakes, asking for help, expressing your needs, and showing,

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Speaker 3: like I said, those raw emotions.

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Speaker 2: There we go, and before we dive into why we

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Speaker 2: resist vulnerability, dom and I were looking at a couple

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Speaker 2: of articles and there was.

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Speaker 1: A little there.

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Speaker 2: This article is really good from Psychology Today called Revealing

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Speaker 2: is Healing the Power of Vulnerability, And there's a little section.

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Speaker 2: I think this is toward the bottom of the article,

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Speaker 2: but I think it's a really great way to sort

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Speaker 2: of assure us into this next section where we talk

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Speaker 2: about why we resist vulnerability. And what it says here

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Speaker 2: is how you feel about being vulnerable. Of course, also

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Speaker 2: depends on how it's received by the person you're revealing

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Speaker 2: it to whether your declarations of love, fear, or insecurity

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Speaker 2: are met with validation or dismissal, reciprocation or not. Some

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Speaker 2: of this you have no control over, but some of

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Speaker 2: it you do. So I love that because it's so true.

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Speaker 2: It depends on like what is your past experience, like

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Speaker 2: what because some of us may have had some traumatic experiences.

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Speaker 2: We're like, fuck that, I'm not being vulnerable, like I'm

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Speaker 2: opening up, I'm closed off, like it is what it is,

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Speaker 2: and so we just want to, you know, usher us

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Speaker 2: into this conversation with that in mind. And so Tom,

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Speaker 2: when I think about why we resist vulnerability, right, I

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Speaker 2: would say one reason is definitely the fear of rejection.

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Speaker 1: Right, Oh so definitely.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So like it could it could even be something like,

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Speaker 2: you know, if I show the world me, will I

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Speaker 2: still be loved?

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Speaker 1: Will they still stick around?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 2: And I think a lot of us, or some of us,

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Speaker 2: may hold back because we worry about people walking away.

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Speaker 2: I know this is something that I have dealt with

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Speaker 2: with abandonment issues, right, people walking away if they see

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Speaker 2: our flaws to get to know the road you, this

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Speaker 2: can come up and this can show up in dating, friendships,

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Speaker 2: even at work, right, where we hide parts of ourselves

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Speaker 2: to be accepted.

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Speaker 1: So fear of rejection for sure.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I like what you pointed out around how

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Speaker 3: it could be a learned behavior in the effort for

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Speaker 3: survival and protection that you are afraid of because of

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Speaker 3: previous experiences when you have been vulnerable. So for a

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Speaker 3: real life example, right, when as a child, someone hurts

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Speaker 3: your feelings and you cry, and your parents tells you

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Speaker 3: that's not a reason to cry, that this world out

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Speaker 3: here is rough, and if you're crying because somebody hurt

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Speaker 3: your feelings, you're gonna end up crying every day. So

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Speaker 3: suck it up and get tougher skin. So now you've

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Speaker 3: been taught to not cry, that crying will get you

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Speaker 3: rejected from your parents.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that is so real.

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Speaker 3: And I think from the perspective of black parenting, it

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Speaker 3: was part of survival exactly right, going back to slavery,

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Speaker 3: that you couldn't cry because in those in that time, crying,

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Speaker 3: crying was a weakness, and your weaknesses could be used

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Speaker 3: against you to cause more harm. Yeah, to even separate families.

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Speaker 3: And so I understand it, and it's something that we

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Speaker 3: have to work we have to work past.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I think the next reason, the next hurdle that

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Speaker 3: may present itself for folks is this fear of judgment, right,

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Speaker 3: and it comes at this this opportunity, will no not opportunity,

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Speaker 3: It comes at this this moment of worrying that you're

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Speaker 3: gonna be misunderstood or labeled. Right. So again going back

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Speaker 3: to the going back to school days, playground days, right,

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Speaker 3: and that somebody is on a playground and they hurt,

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Speaker 3: they say something hurtful.

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Speaker 1: Right, So.

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Speaker 3: I think about elementary school kids and how you know,

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Speaker 3: playing the dozens right, and the telling, you know, telling

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Speaker 3: that your mama.

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Speaker 1: Jokes, Oh my gosh, yes.

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Speaker 3: Cruel times, cruel, cruel times.

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Speaker 1: So happy we're not there anymore.

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Speaker 3: In the effort, in the effort to build thicker skin, right,

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Speaker 3: And again going that goes back and goes back generations.

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Speaker 3: But in those moments, you're being, you're being someone's saying

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Speaker 3: something about your mama ors or about you, picking at

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Speaker 3: the things that you might be insecure about, and you cry.

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Speaker 3: And now you're labeled cry baby, terry.

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Speaker 1: Damn now right and now.

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Speaker 3: And now that becomes that becomes your nickname on the playground.

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Speaker 3: Everybody knows you as cry.

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Speaker 1: Baby, terry terrible.

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Speaker 3: And so then you move forward as an adult and

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Speaker 3: you don't want to, you don't. You have now been

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Speaker 3: conditioned again out of protection for yourself, out of survival,

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Speaker 3: that you don't let people see you cry. Because that

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Speaker 3: label of being called cry baby. You don't like that label.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And now I do it to my kids and

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Speaker 2: tell them you can't be crying. Don't Yeah, you're projected

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Speaker 2: onto everyone else. Now crying is weakness. No, that's so true.

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Speaker 2: That's so true. And I also think down the vulnerability

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Speaker 2: it opened. It can open the door for people to

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Speaker 2: form opinions about you, and that can be scary. So

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Speaker 2: you share something and now you're worrying about, oh, man,

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Speaker 2: are they going to see me as being weak or

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Speaker 2: too much or even unprofessional. I know that's something we've

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Speaker 2: talked about on the podcast. But when I think about

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Speaker 2: oh you blatch it and celebrating the multifaceted woman that

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Speaker 2: that was such a huge thing for me and my

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Speaker 2: evolution as a.

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Speaker 1: Woman, Like how do I share it?

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Speaker 2: How do I showcase the I mean people see the

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Speaker 2: class side, they saw the class but how do our

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Speaker 2: showcase the you know, the ratchet.

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Speaker 1: And the bougie as well? And you know, fear of judgment.

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Speaker 2: I remember down back when we first started this podcast

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Speaker 2: about seven years ago, an autumn years ago, and we

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Speaker 2: were having that serious conversation and we were like, yeah, okay, Dom,

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Speaker 2: Terry we were like, do we want to cuss on

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Speaker 2: the podcast or are we going to keep it clean?

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Speaker 2: And we've had people review the podcast and they've given

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Speaker 2: us like one star and like too much cussing, even

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Speaker 2: though we don't cuss all like that as every now

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Speaker 2: and then. But we decided and we said to ourselves,

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Speaker 2: you know what, even though we're professional women, like it

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Speaker 2: was important to be authentic and if this is a

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Speaker 2: podcast where we're going to be our real selves, our

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Speaker 2: true selves talk about the shit we're going to talk about,

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Speaker 2: and we wanted to feel like, lady, as you're listening, ideally,

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Speaker 2: you feel like you're a friend in your head, you

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Speaker 2: on your couch, or you might be on a toilet. Okay,

404
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Speaker 2: you might be in a kitchen cooking, but we wear

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Speaker 2: with you and we have a girl talk and we

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Speaker 2: don't we're unfiltered and the girl talk, we're unfiltered in

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Speaker 2: the group chat. And so we wanted it to be

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Speaker 2: that experience and that was important to us. And it

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Speaker 2: may not be everyone's cup of tea, but that's what's

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Speaker 2: important to us. That's what's authentic. And I think there's

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Speaker 2: a level of vulnerability and showing up in that way,

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Speaker 2: because yes, go I've had professional people in a professional

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Speaker 2: settings like, oh yeah, I listen to your podcast and

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Speaker 2: every time sometimes I'm.

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Speaker 1: Like, oh shit, what episode did you listen to?

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Speaker 2: Did you listen to when we had the porn Star

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Speaker 2: our own, and like, it is what it is. That's

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Speaker 2: where hey, we're covering all the topics and all the things.

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Speaker 2: So it's a part of the process.

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Speaker 3: It is a part of that process.

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Speaker 1: Yes, okay, So.

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Speaker 2: That takes us to the next reason why people might

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Speaker 2: resist vulnerability, which is past wounds, which we kind of

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Speaker 2: talked about before. Right, So there are times where vulnerability

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Speaker 2: can lead to betrayal or shame, or times where it

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Speaker 2: has led to that, and so you believe that may

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Speaker 2: happen again. And so if you've opened up before and

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Speaker 2: you've been hurt, it's natural to want to protect yourself

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Speaker 2: the next time.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: Maybe it's betrayal or gossip or someone just missed you

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Speaker 2: that can cause us to put up walls.

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Speaker 1: It's natural.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a part of survival and self preservation

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Speaker 2: in some ways, and so that might be another reason, yes.

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Speaker 3: And then I think you know this next piece, we've

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Speaker 3: touched on it slightly, but I want to take it

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Speaker 3: in a different direction of cultural conditioning. Right. So we've

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Speaker 3: talked about it from this lens of how we've been

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Speaker 3: socialized and conditioned as black folks for our overall survival,

441
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 3: particularly maintaining our families and things like that. But I

442
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 3: also think it's important for us to note that the

443
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 3: cultural conditioning, as we mentioned at the top of the show,

444
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 3: of being the strong black woman, right, and that we

445
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:58,120
Speaker 3: were socialized to believe that being strong meant that we

446
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 3: were stoic, that being strong meant almost yes, almost like

447
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 3: a statue, that we are impenetrable, that you don't get

448
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 3: emotion out of us. That for our survival, for the

449
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 3: survival of all of those around us, we have to

450
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 3: keep it together. And keeping it together and being strong

451
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 3: meant there's no room for emotion, there's no room for

452
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 3: us to be our full selves. And so then that

453
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 3: robs us of that opportunity to truly be vulnerable. But

454
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 3: if we've been conditioned that this is what it means

455
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 3: to this is what being a black woman looks like,

456
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 3: then we keep it going.

457
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 1: That is such a good point.

458
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 2: I know we have a lot of stuff going on

459
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 2: in the world right now, and at the same time,

460
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 2: I think there are so many blessings to being alive

461
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 2: at this time with the privileges that we do have,

462
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 2: and also with these conversations that are being hady, because

463
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 2: when you talk about cultural conditioning, it makes me think

464
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 2: about the fact that back then, a lot of times,

465
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 2: like when many of us grew up, we the people

466
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 2: who were raising us, they didn't even have the bandwidth

467
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 2: or capacity to hold space for the emotions that we

468
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 2: had a lot of times. Right, so even if we

469
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 2: were having the conversations, it's like maybe they weren't saying

470
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 2: keep it together, big girls, don't cry, don't cry, but

471
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 2: they didn't even know what to do with it. And

472
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 2: it was just honestly like not no slight to them.

473
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 2: It just wasn't on their shelf. They literally did not

474
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 2: have the capacity, like what are you going to do?

475
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 2: I don't know what to do with it. A lot

476
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 2: of people, and I think a lot of people are

477
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 2: like that too. When you see someone crying, you some

478
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 2: people don't know how to handle it. You're like, oh shit,

479
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 2: just make it stop. Like actually uncomfortable, right, Okay, So

480
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 2: we're gonna talk about number five and then down we

481
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 2: had the clock. I'm like, this my be a part

482
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 2: to y'all, so we we won't see all. We want

483
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 2: to see what we can do, see how far we go.

484
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 2: But we got a lot more content to cover ours.

485
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 2: Number five here is control O child control. Vulnerability often

486
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 2: means surrendering the mask of control. I can relate to

487
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 2: this one. And so when you think about being vulnerable, right,

488
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 2: it can be risky at times because it means letting

489
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 2: go of the image we create or the image that

490
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 2: we curate. Right, And we talked about seeing black women

491
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 2: cry and public. I mean, crying is one of the

492
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 2: most just authentic releases that you can have. And when

493
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 2: you are really crying, there's not much curation that you

494
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 2: can do there.

495
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: It just comes out, comes out, and Lord have mercy,

496
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: let it be a don't let it be an ugly cry.

497
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: And you're just like, this is it.

498
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 2: I mean, it feels good after and sometimes in the

499
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 2: moment it feels good, but it's just you don't have

500
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 2: control over that. It's like your body is letting go

501
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 2: of what needs to be released. And I think sometimes

502
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 2: it feels safer to manage how people see us than

503
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 2: to show the messy truth, right, I mean, there have

504
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 2: been so many times I can I'm sure you can

505
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 2: think of this too, lady where you started crying. You're like,

506
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, we get it together, let me stop wipe

507
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 2: your tears, and you try to cover it up and

508
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 2: wipe it away. I do want to say another thing

509
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 2: down before we dive in deep, and I'm sure you

510
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 2: have something to add. I love the fact that we

511
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 2: are grounding this conversation and safety as well, Like we

512
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 2: talked about how being vulnerable as a black woman is nuanced,

513
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 2: and so there is a level of safety that we

514
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 2: need to consider because all spaces are not safe for

515
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 2: us and we should not be vulnerable in all spaces

516
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 2: because of that. And so I love that word grounding

517
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 2: it yes, and that.

518
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 3: Yes, And you know, as you were saying that, it

519
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 3: made me think about times when when I have and

520
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 3: I think vulnerability right now, what comes up for me

521
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 3: is like crying, but I think that there are other

522
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 3: emotions that are part of that vulnerability. Rightsolutely that for me,

523
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 3: I think about those spaces and places where I did

524
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 3: not feel comfortable being my authentic self.

525
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 1: Right just period like being period.

526
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, And a lot of that goes back to who

527
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 3: are the people around me?

528
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: Yeah?

529
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 3: And like what role are they serving in my life?

530
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: Mm?

531
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 5: Hm.

532
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 3: So I think about oftentimes in a profession, in professional settings,

533
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 3: there are, there have been, there still are people that

534
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 3: I interact with that you know, this is not you

535
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 3: are not gonna get my full self. You are not

536
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 3: gonna get all of me, Yeah, because I don't trust you.

537
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:00,479
Speaker 1: What comes what makes you trust them?

538
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 2: Like, is there anything in particular that's happening in the

539
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 2: environment where you're like, I can't I can't show all

540
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 2: of me or bring all of me.

541
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 3: So I think that there early in my career there

542
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 3: were certain spaces that were evaluative spaces.

543
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: Oh okay, right, yeah.

544
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 3: So now I think about for myself currently, when you

545
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 3: work for other people, you are constantly in when you

546
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 3: have an employer, a boss, you are constantly in any

547
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 3: valuative space, right, But I think back to early phases

548
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 3: in my career where I did not trust who was

549
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 3: doing the evaluating and whether or not the evaluative criteria

550
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 3: was accurate to me, Like were they truly evaluating me

551
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 3: based on who I was and what my tasks were?

552
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: Yeah?

553
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 3: Right, So with I being held to standards that were

554
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 3: impossible to meet or not actually reflective of the work

555
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 3: that I was doing. Yes, okay, Right, and so when

556
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 3: I and when I think about other women in black

557
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 3: women in these evaluative spaces, yeah, oftentimes these evaluative spaces

558
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 3: are used.

559
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 1: Against us, yeah, or used.

560
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 3: Not used in ways that will benefit us. Right. And

561
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 3: so there is a level of protection that we have

562
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 3: to enter those spaces with absolutely that there is a

563
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 3: level of code switching that is going to happen. Yes,

564
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 3: because for some of us, depending on where we're at,

565
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 3: a lot of a statistic the statistics show that a

566
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 3: lot of people are one paycheck away from being houseless

567
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 3: or not being able to make any ends meet, right, Yeah.

568
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 3: And so when your livelihood is dependent upon your professional

569
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:30,359
Speaker 3: performance and what are those performance standards that you're being

570
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 3: measured against, if those things are not reflective of who

571
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:39,760
Speaker 3: you truly are, then you cannot be vulnerable. And to

572
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 3: ask black women to be vulnerable in a workspace or

573
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:53,280
Speaker 3: any space that is not set up with their best

574
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 3: interests at hearts, guess, makes absolutely no fucking sense to me.

575
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 2: Dumb you over listen, give me the spatula because you over.

576
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: There cooking, And that was a whole word. We need

577
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: to listen.

578
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 2: That was so that is so true down because you know,

579
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:10,839
Speaker 2: it's so funny when you said that, because I wrote

580
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 2: down colde switching because when you were sharing that, what

581
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 2: it made me think about is how a lot of

582
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 2: these tech companies, right, I've been working in Silicon Valley

583
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 2: for the past ten years, and a lot of these companies,

584
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's just a tech thing or

585
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 2: Silicon Valley thing, but a lot of the companies, when

586
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 2: you get there, they say, bring your full self to work.

587
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 2: And that never set well with me because I'm like,

588
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,839
Speaker 2: I'm not bringing my black ass full self to the job.

589
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 1: No I'm not.

590
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 2: And I used to I've heard people share their perspectives

591
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 2: about colde switching and saying how we need to just

592
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 2: be our authentic self and no colde switching, and I'm like,

593
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 2: that doesn't resonate with me. And I remember hearing this

594
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 2: black man. He said it so beautifully and I hope

595
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 2: I don't butcher it. But he said something around along

596
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 2: the lines of they don't have the luxury and don't

597
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 2: provide the protection for me to bring my full self

598
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 2: to work, so I will be code switching. I'm not

599
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 2: aving the conversations that I have with you, that I

600
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 2: have with my friends. I'm not bringing you know, how

601
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 2: you get around your people and you can get accent

602
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 2: kind of comes out, Like I know when I go

603
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 2: to Philly, people will be like, girl, did you just

604
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 2: like did you change the way?

605
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 1: Like what just happened to your voice?

606
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 2: Because I'll put on as Sarah James Roberts said when

607
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 2: she was at our show, I'll put on the AT

608
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 2: and T voice when I'm at work because that's what

609
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 2: I do.

610
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 1: I'm doing what I need to do to you know,

611
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 1: get get the stuff done. And then when I want my.

612
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,280
Speaker 2: People, I notice that within myself, my energy just shifts.

613
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:25,320
Speaker 2: My little you know, my little swag come out, the

614
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 2: little Philly jown come out, and you know, you do

615
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 2: your thing. And so I feel like it is important

616
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 2: for us to realize that nom that when we are

617
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 2: in spaces like you said, we're our best interest is

618
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 2: not at heart. No, you don't have to be your

619
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 2: full self in that space. If you feel safe to

620
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 2: do that, that's your prerogative, but you don't have to

621
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:43,959
Speaker 2: come and do that. And if you need a code

622
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 2: switch to you can get that check and do what

623
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 2: you gotta do and build your dream, you know, because

624
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,319
Speaker 2: many of us are building the dream on the side.

625
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 3: You do.

626
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 1: That's exactly now.

627
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 2: No, this will be a really great time speaking of

628
00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 2: control and why people resist vulnerability. I think this will

629
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 2: be a great time to read this article that we discussed,

630
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 2: this little snippet that this.

631
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 1: Blew my mind. Lady, get ready for this.

632
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,839
Speaker 2: Okay, so we're back in the Psychology Today article called

633
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,839
Speaker 2: Revealing its Healing the Power of Vulnerability. I believe it's

634
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,280
Speaker 2: by Kaja Parina. I hope I'm saying her name correctly.

635
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 2: So this is what it said. Okay, you're ready for this, lady,

636
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 2: come in close. I read a story in The Atlantic

637
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 2: magazine recently written by a waiter and a midtown Manhattan

638
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 2: restaurant who reported that men choking in restaurants will sometimes,

639
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:33,359
Speaker 2: out of fear of embarrassment, phide in the bathroom where

640
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 2: they'll die, where they'll die because they can't get help.

641
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 2: I mentioned this to an audience in Washington, DC shortly

642
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 2: after reading the story, and a fellow raised his hand

643
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 2: and said he'd once done exactly that, and the only

644
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 2: reason he was still around to tell the tale was

645
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 2: that someone happened to follow him into the bathroom and

646
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 2: administer the Heimlich maneuver, and other men raise their hands

647
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,359
Speaker 2: and basically said that this was the truth for them.

648
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 2: That is, it's mind blowing, but I get it at

649
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,320
Speaker 2: the same time because I think about what vulnerability means

650
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 2: to men in particular. But then there's a whole other

651
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 2: level when you think about black men. I think we

652
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 2: all have our own relationships and experiences with vulnerability. I mean,

653
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 2: when you think about black men in America and then

654
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 2: being vulnerable, I mean that's like a black man crying.

655
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,839
Speaker 2: I think it's more acceptable now, But I mean when

656
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,799
Speaker 2: I was raised, well many of us were raised, right,

657
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:31,720
Speaker 2: that was that was pretty foreign.

658
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: It was. Yeah, there's a lot to unpack that.

659
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 3: There, there is a lot to unpact there. It's so

660
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 3: fascinating that now I find myself, yeah, having the opposite

661
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 3: reaction of if I'm in a space where I would expect, yeah,

662
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,799
Speaker 3: some level of emotion or some let me be let

663
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 3: me be specific, because Okay, when I'm in a space

664
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 3: where I would expect want to cry, right, and I'm

665
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 3: not talking about therap because that's a whole different experience,

666
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 3: And I don't see the man crying. Yeah, I have

667
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 3: to actively remind myself that, particularly for older men, that

668
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 3: they have been socialized to not cry, right, And I

669
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 3: like literally have to tell myself that so that then

670
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,280
Speaker 3: it might, depending on the context, depending on the situation,

671
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 3: it may push me to then say something mm hmm

672
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 3: so that they may feel so to make them to

673
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 3: hopefully create a space where they may feel more comfortable

674
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 3: to cry and give that if they've been holding it in.

675
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 1: Okay, that is that's good.

676
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 2: It's great to hear you say that as a therapist,

677
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 2: because some don't have this, specially especially certain Yeah, some

678
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 2: don't have that emotional intelligence and the history and the

679
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 2: understanding to do that. But from a therapist perspective, now,

680
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 2: what would you say are some of the.

681
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 1: I guess I'm want to say that.

682
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 2: The powerful transformations that you've witnessed with someone being vulnerable.

683
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 3: So I think what most readily comes to comes to

684
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 3: mind are the college students that I work with. Yeah,

685
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 3: particularly some of the black women, right, okay, and they

686
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 3: come into therapy and I've seen the gamut. I've seen

687
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:50,400
Speaker 3: some that in the majority me so the majority. What

688
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 3: will happen is that first time that they cry in session,

689
00:40:55,040 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 3: there's an apology, the oh, I'm sorry, I didn't I

690
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:07,800
Speaker 3: didn't mean to, and and so it's me then saying,

691
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 3: you know, like having to actively say like, no, this

692
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 3: is your space, this is this is the space where

693
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 3: you can open up and you can cry and you

694
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 3: can experience whatever range of emotions, right because I've also

695
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 3: seen it when they get angry, that they come in

696
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:35,879
Speaker 3: and they may be enraged about something, but then they

697
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 3: find themselves trying to contain it. And then I have

698
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 3: to say it's okay to be angry and I can

699
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 3: and letting them know that raising your voice, getting you know,

700
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 3: doing all the things. I'm I'm okay with it right now.

701
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:03,359
Speaker 3: I do. I do also find myself being mindful of

702
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:07,879
Speaker 3: particularly when I'm in a shared setting of and when

703
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,320
Speaker 3: I say, when I'm in like a clinic or a center,

704
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 3: right when there's other offices. Yet I do find myself

705
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 3: being mindful of how loud they may emote. Yeah, but

706
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:27,760
Speaker 3: I'm also very clear with them that me being mindful

707
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 3: of them emoting is about protecting their privacy. Yes, but

708
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 3: it's not about me being afraid. Because we have also

709
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 3: because we've also been socialized that when we express, when

710
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:44,800
Speaker 3: we have the big emotions, yes, that people become afraid

711
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 3: of us.

712
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: Yes.

713
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,359
Speaker 3: And so part of my job in the therapy set

714
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,760
Speaker 3: that I believe is my job in the therapy space

715
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:58,720
Speaker 3: is to make it okay to have those big emotions,

716
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 3: and we remind people that it's not it's not about

717
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 3: the emotion itself, that it is okay to have the emotion.

718
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:13,879
Speaker 3: The problem comes in with what you do after that

719
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 3: and with that emotion, right like what your behaviors or actions,

720
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,359
Speaker 3: those are the things that get you into trouble not

721
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 3: experienced not having the emotion itself.

722
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, Doma, I love that so much because

723
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 2: I know I want to ask another question and share

724
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 2: two things. I know that during my process of healing

725
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 2: from a lot of childhood trauma, I never had the

726
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 2: space to be angry, Like I didn't have the space

727
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 2: to be like, fuck this shit, I have rage, I

728
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:43,760
Speaker 2: want to punch some shit, I want to fuck some shitup.

729
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:45,720
Speaker 2: I didn't have space to do that. And I remember

730
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 2: being working with a therapist and then letting me know,

731
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:49,840
Speaker 2: like you are, you have every right to be upset,

732
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 2: and like letting me know like you should be angry

733
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 2: about these things that was terrible that happened. I was like, okay,

734
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 2: like it was, I feel emotional now, like it was

735
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 2: a relief of like, wow, I.

736
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: Have permission to do that.

737
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,840
Speaker 2: So with that said, we use crying as an example

738
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 2: in a lot of instances, but of course we know

739
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 2: that that's not the only emotion that can show up

740
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 2: when you're being vulnerable. So we talked about anger a bit.

741
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 2: What are some of the other emotions that you see

742
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:15,359
Speaker 2: come up when someone is leaning into their vulnerability in

743
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 2: life or in a therapy session?

744
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 3: Joy?

745
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: Joy? Oh, talk about joy? Why is joy? Talk about it?

746
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 3: So I think, you know, I want to talk. So

747
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:34,479
Speaker 3: a lot of thoughts came up with the thought of joy, right,

748
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:40,879
Speaker 3: joy and pleasure and that. So there's two different things

749
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:44,280
Speaker 3: that come up for me, one around joy and pleasure

750
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 3: when it comes to sex. That as as women, we

751
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 3: are socialized to not like necessarily that we can't necessarily

752
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 3: enjoy sex. And sex isn't more of us, right, okay,

753
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 3: and not for us? Sex is for everybody anybody, right,

754
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:13,800
Speaker 3: And there are ways in which we get to express

755
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:16,760
Speaker 3: that and experience it. And you know, I'm very clear

756
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 3: that it needs to be consue. Whatever you're doing needs

757
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 3: to be consensual. Yes, And so the idea that a

758
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 3: woman can one actually experience an orgasm, okay, and then

759
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:34,319
Speaker 3: to enjoy that orgasm like.

760
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 2: Expressive yes, yes.

761
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:50,319
Speaker 3: The release literally that a woman can experience when they

762
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 3: have an orgasm.

763
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 4: Right like.

764
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 3: That. That is a level of vulnerability that we don't

765
00:45:58,920 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 3: often acknowledge.

766
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:03,359
Speaker 2: Yes, speak, Oh my gosh, Okay, now we may have

767
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:05,359
Speaker 2: to do an episode about this because when you talk

768
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 2: about that dom it has me thinking about myself and

769
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 2: also friends, where many of us when we first started

770
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 2: having sex, we're not having orgasms?

771
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 1: One because it was like, oh I was supposed to

772
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 1: be having that thing. I didn't know. I didn't realize it.

773
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 2: But then two, being comfortable enough, safe enough and tune

774
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 2: with your body enough to let go fully, comfortable enough

775
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,839
Speaker 2: with your partner to let go fully and to let

776
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,319
Speaker 2: go of that control and to be vulnerable in that

777
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:32,240
Speaker 2: way as well.

778
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, that is. It's a powerful experience. It is

779
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:44,759
Speaker 3: a freeing. It is a liberating experience.

780
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,280
Speaker 1: And you are deserving of it. We are all deserving

781
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 1: of that.

782
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes we are. And so so

783
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 3: there's that piece and then there's the joy in other contexts,

784
00:46:56,239 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 3: right of I think about black women being out and about, right,

785
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 3: and how when we are having a time, okay, when

786
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 3: we are when we are with our girlfriends and having

787
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 3: a time, Yeah, the level of laughter and tackling and

788
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 3: just the overall merriment and enjoyment yes, that comes from

789
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 3: those moments. Yeah, to me is a signal of vulnerability, right,

790
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 3: That you are with people that you feel so comfortable with,

791
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:57,839
Speaker 3: that you feel free enough with to let that joy out. Yeah,

792
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 3: That you're not feeling like you have to you have

793
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 3: to contain it, that you have to give that cute

794
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 3: little giggle. Yeah, And there is room for the cute giggle.

795
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 3: I'm here for you for sure, But you feel comfortable

796
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 3: and free enough that that big boisterous laugh yeah naturally escapes.

797
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 2: That just sounds so amazing, don As you say that.

798
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 2: It just makes me think about the fact that we

799
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 2: all deserve to be around people and community with and

800
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 2: partnered with right people where we feel people that make

801
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 2: us feel safe, where we can be ourselves, where we

802
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 2: can be vulnerable. And I think that if you know,

803
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 2: if we find ourselves in situations where that's not the case, right,

804
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 2: whether it's a friendship, a relationship, a job, shit shit.

805
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 1: Or whatever it might be.

806
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:53,880
Speaker 2: Yes, we may have able to change it immediately, but

807
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 2: it should give us a We should be able to

808
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:59,360
Speaker 2: pause and be like, huh okay, let me like is

809
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 2: this serving me right? Like is there a better community,

810
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:05,880
Speaker 2: a better space, a better opportunity for me? Because the

811
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 2: life that we have is precious? Life is precious.

812
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 1: I mean yes, it is.

813
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 2: Yes, it's that literally that life is precious and we

814
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 2: deserve to have pleasure, joy, vulnerability in a safe environment.

815
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:23,359
Speaker 2: And lady, we did not even get into the rest

816
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 2: of the content that we were going to cover. So

817
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 2: what we're going to do is, I don't know, dom

818
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 2: if we want to do a recap, we could figure

819
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:30,839
Speaker 2: it out, but we are going to cover the rest

820
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 2: of this content in a part two episode because we

821
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 2: kind of, yeah, we shifted it up a little bit.

822
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:37,800
Speaker 2: We went with the spirit. We let spirit lead today.

823
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 3: Yes we did, and so yes, in ladies, stay tuned

824
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 3: for part two where we will continue this conversation and

825
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:48,880
Speaker 3: we'll talk about we'll talk more about what how to

826
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:53,960
Speaker 3: safely practice vulnerability right, Like what are the steps? Because

827
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 3: I think that's the piece that like that's the next

828
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 3: phase right once you you have identified what vulnerability looks

829
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 3: like for you, is how do we practice it? Like

830
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 3: put it into practice? And so that's what we will

831
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 3: talk about in part two. All right, So, but before

832
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:23,920
Speaker 3: we wrap up, I do want to take a moment

833
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 3: to give a special shout out because I told her

834
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:30,879
Speaker 3: that I would to Nay and you can find her

835
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 3: on social media at Nay so am ia. So it's

836
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:39,840
Speaker 3: Nae dot s O dot M. I a shout out.

837
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:40,279
Speaker 4: To u, Nay.

838
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 3: I was at a brunch cruise a couple of weeks

839
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 3: ago with a friend and Nay approached me and said

840
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 3: that she has been listening to the podcast, and so

841
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:53,000
Speaker 3: I told her I would give her a shout out.

842
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:55,080
Speaker 3: So shout out to you, Nay. Thank you for listening.

843
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 1: Dot out to you, Nay. I love that so much.

844
00:50:57,760 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 1: Job a lady.

845
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:00,719
Speaker 2: If you want to catch the after and also if

846
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 2: you want to support the podcast, you can head on

847
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 2: over to herspace podcast dot com. You can click anywhere

848
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 2: you see Patreon and subscribe to our Patreon so you

849
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,840
Speaker 2: can see us on video as we record these episodes

850
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:13,280
Speaker 2: and also to catch us on the after show. Also

851
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:15,840
Speaker 2: make sure you hit us up on Instagram at Herspace podcast,

852
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 2: you can check out our content, send us some dms,

853
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:19,879
Speaker 2: let us know what topics you want us to cover,

854
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 2: what events you want us to host like we our

855
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 2: ears are open. Okay, we're here and we'll catch you

856
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 2: in the after show.

857
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:29,719
Speaker 5: Lady, it's doctor dom here from the Cultivating her Space podcast.

858
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 5: Are you currently a resident of the state of California

859
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 5: and contemplating starting your therapy journey? Well, if so, please

860
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:43,280
Speaker 5: reach out to me at doctor Dominique Brusard dot com.

861
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 5: That's d R D O M I N I q

862
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:54,320
Speaker 5: U E b R O U ss ar D dot

863
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:58,319
Speaker 5: com to schedule a free fifteen minute consultation.

864
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 3: I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks for tuning

865
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:07,440
Speaker 3: into Cultivating her Space. Remember that while this podcast is

866
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:12,319
Speaker 3: all about healing, empowerment, and resilience, it's not a substitute

867
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 3: for therapy. If you or someone you know need support,

868
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 3: check out resources like Therapy for Black Girls or Psychology Today.

869
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 3: If you love today's episode, do us a favor and

870
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:28,279
Speaker 3: share it with a friend who needs some inspiration, or

871
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:32,359
Speaker 3: leave us a quick five star review. Your support means

872
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 3: the world to us and helps keep this space Thriving, and.

873
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 1: Before we meet again, repeat after me.

874
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 2: I honor my journey by balancing effort and rest to

875
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 2: achieve my goals. Cheap Thriving Lady, and tune in next

876
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Speaker 2: Friday for more inspiration from cultivating her space. In the meantime,

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Speaker 2: be sure to connect with us on Instagram at her

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Speaker 2: Space Podcast