Speaker 1: On the Bechde cast, the questions asked if movies have
Speaker 1: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and
Speaker 1: best start changing it with the Bechdel cast.
Speaker 2: Shimmy, shimmy, stop something, dance moves. I don't know, we're dancing.
Speaker 3: Oh I could have taken the lead on that. I
Speaker 3: was a dancer. Yeah, you were a dancer. Okay, so
Speaker 3: you try see if you can do it anything better
Speaker 3: than me.
Speaker 4: Five six seven.
Speaker 3: That's my favorite part of any dance movie is when
Speaker 3: you get the five six seven eight hard and then
Speaker 3: you just get like a woman in her early thirties
Speaker 3: panting and screaming at teenagers. That is the good stuff. Hey,
Speaker 3: and you're just like, I would die for this woman.
Speaker 3: I don't know why, but I've been told that I should.
Speaker 3: Oh God, this movie is about a lot of things,
Speaker 3: but it is about the evil power that a dance
Speaker 3: coach bolts over her dominion, her Jurassic Park dominions, her minions.
Speaker 3: My famously rejected script for Universal Pictures Jurassic Park Dominions.
Speaker 3: It would have been the crossover event of the century.
Speaker 3: But instead they went with Colin Trevorell, Welcome to the
Speaker 3: Bechdel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus, my.
Speaker 2: Name is Caitlin Derante, and this is our show where
Speaker 2: we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the
Speaker 2: Bechdel Test simply as a jumping off point.
Speaker 3: You're damn right, which is I'll tell you what it is?
Speaker 3: Tell me what that is.
Speaker 2: It's a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel,
Speaker 2: sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace Test, originally appearing in her
Speaker 2: comic Decks to Watch Out For in the mid eighties
Speaker 2: as a bit of a one off goof that also
Speaker 2: kind of examines how there was so little representation of
Speaker 2: queer women in the movies at the time. Absolutely something
Speaker 2: I would like to mention more often as we discussed
Speaker 2: the Bechtel Test. But anyway, there is deep lore for
Speaker 2: the Bechtel Test.
Speaker 3: Such deep lore.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 2: In any case, it is the medium metric that, again
Speaker 2: we use as a springboard. Our version of it is
Speaker 2: two characters of a marginalized gender with names must speak
Speaker 2: to each other, and their conversation has to be about
Speaker 2: something other than a man. Ideally it's a substantial conversation
Speaker 2: and not just a nice day we're having, Sally. Yes,
Speaker 2: it is Betty.
Speaker 3: Or some of our worst passes, which is like shut
Speaker 3: the hell up. Okay, yeah, which is a classic woman dynamic. Yes,
Speaker 3: so quickly, right off the top. Today we are covering
Speaker 3: the classic Disney Channel original movie. And if you're a
Speaker 3: listener of this show, you have statistically been harassing us
Speaker 3: about covering one Disney Channel original movie or another for
Speaker 3: the better part of ten years. Yes, so today we
Speaker 3: are covering one of the greats. We are covering Got
Speaker 3: to Kick It Up two thousand and two. But just
Speaker 3: so you know, the way that we're structuring our episode
Speaker 3: today because of guest availability, is that it will be
Speaker 3: Kitlin and myself for the recap portion, and then we're
Speaker 3: going to bring in an incredible guest, Mikita Revas for
Speaker 3: our discussion. So if you're like, is there a guest, yes, essentially, patience, patience, Yes,
Speaker 3: But yes, today we're covering Got to Kick It Up.
Speaker 3: And boy, oh boy, Caitlin, Yes, what is your history,
Speaker 3: if any, with the Disney Channel original movie Gotta Kick
Speaker 3: It Up.
Speaker 2: I have no history with it, As with every other
Speaker 2: D com. I've never seen it right until I've had
Speaker 2: to watch it for this show.
Speaker 3: Do you ever wonder who you would be if you do?
Speaker 3: Do you think you'd be different? I think I would.
Speaker 3: I think like because in a small way, but in
Speaker 3: a way not substantial.
Speaker 2: I don't think it would have informed my taste very
Speaker 2: differently than it already is, because I did watch some
Speaker 2: like almost decom coded movies, but one with just like
Speaker 2: higher budgets. But the one that comes to mind would
Speaker 2: be like Lindsay Lohan Parent Trap, which I saw on
Speaker 2: repeat as a kid. But also as a kid, I
Speaker 2: was watching Titanic every day, so you know, I mean.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's no lack of the general vibe in your life.
Speaker 3: I feel like, mainly my life would be different because
Speaker 3: I would not wear so many ugly clothes and be like,
Speaker 3: this is awesome, but unfortunately there was one of these
Speaker 3: damn things on every single week and they would be
Speaker 3: wearing the weirdest stuff, and you would. I mean, I
Speaker 3: feel like it's the xenonification of wow, yeah, thank you
Speaker 3: so much of women of a certain and also, let's
Speaker 3: like take the gender specificity out of it. We're all
Speaker 3: impacted by the brutal choices made by the various costume
Speaker 3: departments in.
Speaker 2: These Indeed, so all that to say, I had never
Speaker 2: seen this movie. I had no history with it, but
Speaker 2: I'm excited to discuss Jamie, what is your relationship with
Speaker 2: Gotta Kick It Up? Exclamation point?
Speaker 3: I love this movie. I saw it the day it
Speaker 3: aired on television. Wow. Sorry, I was in elementary school
Speaker 3: when this came out. I remember watching it with my
Speaker 3: cousins as as I feel like my answer for every
Speaker 3: d com because there's only so many ways to get
Speaker 3: kids to shut up, and this was one of them.
Speaker 3: At this time, my cousins and they were always I
Speaker 3: remember it like, because we all lived within a mile
Speaker 3: of each other. My mom ran the daycare at my house.
Speaker 3: We were together a lot. And then these would air
Speaker 3: on Friday nights. And so first of all, even if
Speaker 3: you weren't excited about the movie, it was a sleepover opportunity,
Speaker 3: and so you had to spend as much time with
Speaker 3: your girl as as possible. And so this was an
Speaker 3: opportunity and it felt like to me, And I wonder
Speaker 3: how my cousins feel about this, I will ask them
Speaker 3: that it felt to me that if the d com
Speaker 3: was about girls, higher likelihood that the sleepover would would
Speaker 3: be approved by the powers that be, And if you're
Speaker 3: getting kind of like a Kyle Massey original, if you're
Speaker 3: getting like a Ricky Solman movie, you wouldn't understand. He
Speaker 3: played Raven Simone's little brother Corey on that so Raven.
Speaker 3: He later started the spinoff, Corey in the House, in
Speaker 3: which inexplicably he moved to the White House. I didn't
Speaker 3: watch that one, okay, because it was about both the
Speaker 3: White House and not the Smart House. Not the Smart House,
Speaker 3: which is my white House. No, well, anyways, they're all
Speaker 3: a part of the same expanded universe. But anyways, we
Speaker 3: watched all of these for whatever seven or eight years
Speaker 3: until it was suddenly uncool to do so gotta kick
Speaker 3: it up. Though firmly remember watching it, remember watching it
Speaker 3: with my cousins, and we loved girls and dancing, and
Speaker 3: so this was an event. And at the time, I don't,
Speaker 3: I mean, as I rewatched it, I remembered, I feel
Speaker 3: like with a lot of childhood movies, I remember basically
Speaker 3: nothing that happened in this movie. I remembered girls, I
Speaker 3: remember dancing, and I think because of how history played out,
Speaker 3: I remembered America Ferrara, Yes, of course, and so when
Speaker 3: I went to revisit this movie, what I thought this
Speaker 3: movie was was a movie about a group of teen
Speaker 3: dancers starring America Ferrera who do cool dances and win
Speaker 3: the contest. It is, however, a movie in which America
Speaker 3: Ferrera barely has a character, where a white woman who
Speaker 3: played Bell on Broadway and did the voice for Megara
Speaker 3: and Hercules plays a white savior coach who teaches a
Speaker 3: group of teen girls nothing. That's sort of what happened.
Speaker 2: Because it's not as though she's inspiring them to start dancing.
Speaker 2: They're already all dancers.
Speaker 3: And at many points in this movie they're dancing in
Speaker 3: spite of her. And so I found it interesting to
Speaker 3: be like, oh, this movie is actually about a central
Speaker 3: white character I didn't even remember who I really do like,
Speaker 3: upon further reflection, she's certainly and I feel like the
Speaker 3: nature of these movies, and by that I mean teacher student,
Speaker 3: kind of sappy movies. I'm gonna take the white savior
Speaker 3: element out for a moment. But it is like, well,
Speaker 3: sure they learned from me, but I learned from them too.
Speaker 3: But even if you put this movie up to a microscope.
Speaker 3: I don't think that they really learned anything from her. No, well,
Speaker 3: that is correct. Anyways, she's able to overcome her very
Speaker 3: boring problems related to not finishing her freshman year at Juilliard.
Speaker 3: I'm like crime a fucking river. Anyways, in my memory,
Speaker 3: this movie was a great cinematic achievement. In reality, it
Speaker 3: is a very interesting, somewhat dated, but I think valuable
Speaker 3: to talk about cinematic achievement.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, I can't argue with that. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: shall we talk about it further with the recap.
Speaker 3: Let's recap, baby, But first.
Speaker 2: Let's take a quick little break.
Speaker 3: And we're back, and we're back.
Speaker 2: Okay, here's the recap for Gotta Kick it Up exclamation
Speaker 2: point and you gotta, and you simply gotta.
Speaker 3: If there's one thing you gotta do, it's kick it up.
Speaker 3: Did you know the original title to this movie was
Speaker 3: kick it Up exclamation point? And then it turns out
Speaker 3: that was something and they're like, hmm, how do we
Speaker 3: punch it up? Gotta? I do think that that choice
Speaker 3: alone illustrates the immediacy with which these movies are made,
Speaker 3: where they're like I don't know it airs in ten minutes.
Speaker 3: What are you gonna call it? You're like, you gotta
Speaker 3: kick it up, you gotta kick it up, and so
Speaker 3: it was. I did not.
Speaker 2: I was like, is this like a dance expression the
Speaker 2: way that like, oh, you know what, First of all,
Speaker 2: it's not.
Speaker 3: First of all, as a dancer, it isn't.
Speaker 2: Also, when I went on to urban dictionary dot com
Speaker 2: to confirm to.
Speaker 3: Talk about it, you could just text me my god.
Speaker 2: Well, I was like, Okay, is kick it up a
Speaker 2: dance expression?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: And it's not. And when you look up kick it
Speaker 2: up on Urban Dictionary, the first entry is when your
Speaker 2: friends want you to smoke a big ass joint with them?
Speaker 3: Why in the twenty three which you can assult this.
Speaker 2: Website, And then the response is like, oh yeah, let's
Speaker 2: kick it up tonight, and that means to smoke a
Speaker 2: joint of marijuana.
Speaker 3: Okay, first of all, if you're a listener, please let
Speaker 3: us know if you've ever heard that in your fucking life.
Speaker 3: It's like, that reminds me of my mom. Still not
Speaker 3: fully understanding the implications of the phrase hook up. Oh
Speaker 3: in a way that I think I maybe have talked
Speaker 3: about it in the show before it, but it always
Speaker 3: makes me laugh where she's like, hey, I have to
Speaker 3: go hook up with your uncle, You're just like you
Speaker 3: don't she means meet up, but she says it like
Speaker 3: she's gonna have sex with growth her brother in law.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: And so in that way, it's language is amazing and
Speaker 3: it can sound like anything. But in terms of kick
Speaker 3: it up, as far as I know, unless it's a
Speaker 3: dance genre, I am not trained in. No, it's not
Speaker 3: an expression. And not to brag, but I was the
Speaker 3: captain of my high school dance team, and so if
Speaker 3: there was any kicking of it up, I think I
Speaker 3: would have known something about it. That's true, But I
Speaker 3: believe colloquially within the community of high school dancers the
Speaker 3: phrase was kick it was merely kick got it it
Speaker 3: up was implied within the.
Speaker 2: Action of course, now you're gonna kick it down. Title
Speaker 2: reminded me that so many movies that center female athletics,
Speaker 2: uh huh have it in the title. Remember we did
Speaker 2: a whole Matreon theme based on it whip it, stick
Speaker 2: it it, bring it.
Speaker 3: On, and bring it on. Also, I would say, almost
Speaker 3: definitively that gotta kick it up in part got a
Speaker 3: green light off of the success of Bring It On.
Speaker 2: I would say yes, probably.
Speaker 3: As I feel is the tendency for like, if there's
Speaker 3: a very successful movie that comes out theatrically, about a
Speaker 3: year or so later, there'll be sort of a version
Speaker 3: of it that comes out on the Disney Channel. It's
Speaker 3: just how society works, and you can like that or
Speaker 3: not sure. Sure, sure, but anyways, Okay, what's this movie about?
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what it is? It wow, Because we
Speaker 2: also were pondering, what does it ever refer to in
Speaker 2: the title of these movies, We're not quite sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what are they kicking up there? Feet? I meant
Speaker 3: like spiritually? Oh right, I'm a dancer, Caitlyn, I know
Speaker 3: what they're kicking. Yes, I forgot. Oh my god, you're
Speaker 3: starting to piss me off. And we're going to post
Speaker 3: a picture of my high school dance team because I'm
Speaker 3: starting to get it's fine.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, okay, one last tangent before we Oh no,
Speaker 2: I haven't that. Every time I learned about this movie
Speaker 2: before seeing it or knowing what it was about, I assumed,
Speaker 2: based on the verb in the title kick kick, that
Speaker 2: it would be about soccer. And so I was like, Woa,
Speaker 2: hoho soccer movie as a also captain of my high.
Speaker 3: School soccer team. Both leaders, captain, we're leaders, Oh captain,
Speaker 3: my captain, which speaks to okay. Before we got a mic,
Speaker 3: we were talking about wow. We really communicate in the
Speaker 3: love language of subgenres. We were talking about how this
Speaker 3: movie is directed by the same director, Ramon Menandez who
Speaker 3: directed Stand and Deliver, which has, as You're about to hear,
Speaker 3: a similar bit different overarching story is like a teacher
Speaker 3: inspires a group of youths to aspire to greatness, and
Speaker 3: that is a subgenre I like to think of as
Speaker 3: substitute teacher movies. And not to really brag, because not
Speaker 3: only was I a high school dance captain, I also
Speaker 3: would wow later be a substitute teacher, which is sort
Speaker 3: of a direct one to two if the truth is
Speaker 3: to be said. And my career as a subsidute teacher
Speaker 3: was four months in Watertown, Massachusetts. Brave of me to say,
Speaker 3: but I did not know what to do when I
Speaker 3: was substitute teaching Jim. I would make the kids run
Speaker 3: in a circle and if they were good, I would
Speaker 3: play let it Go from Frozen, and that was one lesson.
Speaker 3: That's an example of one of my lesson plans. My
Speaker 3: other lesson plan was movies, and I would pull from
Speaker 3: the same substitute teacher movies that I would watch, which
Speaker 3: included Stand and Deliver, which included Remember the Titans. I
Speaker 3: think most significantly, Remember the Titans to me is my
Speaker 3: seminal substitute teacher movie. What else were mister Holland Opus
Speaker 3: anytime a teacher is doing some shit that they shouldn't
Speaker 3: be doing. Dead Poets Society, but that's more of like
Speaker 3: a high school and or you can't show that to
Speaker 3: second graders. Remember the Titans, turn it on for fucking anybody.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: I would have assumed it would have been more appropriate
Speaker 2: for older kids.
Speaker 3: But not if you ask the second graders I taught,
Speaker 3: and you can rewatch it. Let me know if that
Speaker 3: was bad of me to do, but I didn't. Anyways,
Speaker 3: this I feel like, even though it didn't become because
Speaker 3: I think it was like a TV movie, But I
Speaker 3: think that this movie falls squarely into like substitute teacher
Speaker 3: movie canon. Why were we talking about this.
Speaker 2: Because I said, oh, Captain, my captain, Oh Dead Poet Society? Okay, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: Well the movie about what is it? I'll tell we'll
Speaker 2: figure out what it is later, Yes, yes, yes, yes, okay.
Speaker 2: So we open on the first day of school at
Speaker 2: Marshall Middle School in southern California. I'm guessing LA Area,
Speaker 2: but it doesn't really specify.
Speaker 3: We'll talk about this in the discussion. But the movie
Speaker 3: is based on experiences that one of the writers had
Speaker 3: in the LA area, so I think it's implied.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And before classes start for the day, when everyone
Speaker 2: is just sort of lounging around outside, two students, Daisy
Speaker 2: played by Camille Guatti and Yolanda that's America Ferira, start dancing.
Speaker 2: You might even say they are kicking it up. And
Speaker 2: then another girl, as Marelda, played by Sabrina Wiener, wants
Speaker 2: to dance with them, but Daisy has a bit of
Speaker 2: an attitude and she won't let as Marelda dance.
Speaker 3: Don't worry, that will not really impact the plot moving forward.
Speaker 3: It's just something that happens a couple of times.
Speaker 2: It's just a way to introduce the characters.
Speaker 3: It's just a way to say some shit.
Speaker 2: Yes, then we meet Miss Bartlett played by Susan Egan.
Speaker 3: Yes, Susan Egan is Bell on Broadway. Just keep that
Speaker 3: in mind, because she's just like associated with so many
Speaker 3: famous voice roles that it's like really hard to ignore.
Speaker 2: She is the new biology teacher at the school.
Speaker 3: Don't worry, she's not qualified for the job.
Speaker 2: She does not have a background in biology or really
Speaker 2: science of any kind.
Speaker 3: Which is substitute teacher coded. Yes, except she's a permanent teacher.
Speaker 3: She lives in a house. I was like, this is
Speaker 3: a fantasy world anyways.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Principal Zavala played by Miguel Sandeval, who I recognize
Speaker 2: from the beginning of a Park. Fun little fact about me.
Speaker 3: Oh, he's kind of a legendary character actor. He's been
Speaker 3: in so much stuff. Indeed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the principal goes up to Miss Bartlett and
Speaker 2: he's like, good luck. These students can be pretty intimidating,
Speaker 2: and they're like, what.
Speaker 3: Do you mean by that?
Speaker 2: Well, right, And I think what he means is that
Speaker 2: Miss Bartlett is a waspy, blonde, white woman and the
Speaker 2: majority of the students at this school are LATINX and
Speaker 2: the students in Miss Bartlett's class do not take her seriously.
Speaker 2: And Daisy even gets up and starts dancing like on
Speaker 2: her desk.
Speaker 3: I don't appreciate that this is implied to be a
Speaker 3: racial comment when it is simply how teenagers treat new teachers. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you're just like, yeah, she's a joke because she's an
Speaker 3: adult and she's new here. That's just how that works,
Speaker 3: is indeed.
Speaker 2: And then as this kind of chaos is unraveling, Principles
Speaker 2: of Alla walks in sees the disruption and gives Daisy
Speaker 2: a month of detention. Now, speaking of dancing or kicking
Speaker 2: it up, as it's known across all cultures, Yolanda is
Speaker 2: talking to her friend Alyssa played by Joanna Flores about
Speaker 2: the school's dance team. The previous dance coach had retired,
Speaker 2: so now it looks like there's not going to be
Speaker 2: a dance team this year. That is until as Morelda
Speaker 2: discovers that miss Bartlett went to Juilliard, So she asks
Speaker 2: the principal to try to recruit miss Bartlett to be
Speaker 2: the new dance coach, and Miss Bartlett reluctantly agrees, and
Speaker 2: tryouts are coming up, and Daisy negotiates with principals of Alla,
Speaker 2: who join the dance team instead of serving her detention
Speaker 2: time at.
Speaker 3: The suggestion of her boyfriend of ambiguous age named Chewie,
Speaker 3: who said that he had done the same thing previously.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So Daisy, Jolie, Esmerelda Alissa all try out for the team,
Speaker 2: as well as another girl named Mary Soul. She's played
Speaker 2: by Selima Rodriguez, and they, along with a handful of
Speaker 2: other girls who will never speak and we will never
Speaker 2: actually meet, but that's just how movies work. They all
Speaker 2: make the team. Miss Bartlett is very like, no nonsense,
Speaker 2: and she expects the girls to be as dedicated to
Speaker 2: the team as she is. And they start to get
Speaker 2: into shape and they start to put choreography together and
Speaker 2: then it's time for their first competition at Rolling Hills
Speaker 2: Middle School. But the team's performance is pretty sloppy, and
Speaker 2: Daisy gets so pissed about it that she storms off
Speaker 2: stage and quits the team, and the team in general
Speaker 2: doesn't have a lot of faith in Miss Bartlett. But
Speaker 2: then Daisy sees Miss Bartlett dancing in the gym by herself.
Speaker 3: Okay, one of the most iconic scenes in the movie
Speaker 3: because it sucks. Yeah, like it is heavily implied, And
Speaker 3: this we'll talk about in our discussion as well, but
Speaker 3: it's like very implied that it's like, oh, Miss Bartlett's
Speaker 3: relationship to dance is really complicated, and you're sort of like, okay,
Speaker 3: but yeah. Then the first glimpse you get of why
Speaker 3: that may be, and it also is repeatedly referenced in
Speaker 3: a way that I don't think she's really held a
Speaker 3: task for in the scope of the movie, is that
Speaker 3: she's projecting her own issues onto the team and intentionally
Speaker 3: holding them back because of issues that she hasn't resolved
Speaker 3: in regards to her relationship to dance. Spoiler alert, The
Speaker 3: reveal is very boring, but this is the first scene
Speaker 3: where we see like her dancing like no one's watching,
Speaker 3: and for some reason, and I think this is also
Speaker 3: very just like in the way that these movies are
Speaker 3: written to be pretty soapy, seeing Miss Bartlett dance like
Speaker 3: no one's watching infuriates Daisy. She says, how dare you
Speaker 3: dances that no one's watching when we could have been
Speaker 3: watching I love drama.
Speaker 2: Because it turns out that Miss Bartlett has more moves
Speaker 2: than the team realized, and it seems like she's been
Speaker 2: holding back. So Miss Bartlett then convinces Daisy to rejoin
Speaker 2: the team and they all get to work on some
Speaker 2: more serious choreography, and then there's an upcoming competition at
Speaker 2: Hamilton Middle School, but Miss Bartlett won't let them compete
Speaker 2: at it because she thinks they still have a lot
Speaker 2: more work to do. She wants them to be the
Speaker 2: absolute best because a part of her whole thing in
Speaker 2: her arc is that, like she put too much pressure
Speaker 2: on herself to be perfect, and she thinks that being
Speaker 2: the best is the most important thing. Now, the girls
Speaker 2: feel differently, and they decide to enter the competition without
Speaker 2: Miss Bartlett knowing. So the team spruces up their uniforms
Speaker 2: and heads to Hamilton. Daisy's boyfriend Chui and his friends
Speaker 2: give them a.
Speaker 3: Ride because they're very supportive for a chunk of.
Speaker 2: The movie, right until they're suddenly not for no reason,
Speaker 2: but the team they're not sure if they can do this,
Speaker 2: but then.
Speaker 3: And they're like, can we kick it up?
Speaker 2: We gotta, we gotta, we gotta, And then Marisola is like, well,
Speaker 2: my grandma always says see, which means yes we can,
Speaker 2: which becomes the team's motto.
Speaker 3: So just a quick they briefly contextualize it within the
Speaker 3: movie but I also want to contextualize it within the episode.
Speaker 3: So the phrase cipu it's a historical phrase. It was
Speaker 3: very intentionally put into the movie by It's Safe as
Speaker 3: a primary writer, Nancy Della Santos, who also wrote Selena,
Speaker 3: amongst many other movies. So she contextualizes it in an
Speaker 3: interview that she did a couple of years ago with
Speaker 3: a website called Millennialhallmarker dot com, she says, I am
Speaker 3: extremely proud of getting csipude into the script and onto
Speaker 3: the television screen, but it's not a dance phrase, or
Speaker 3: wasn't at the time. Ccipuide is Spanish for yes you can,
Speaker 3: Yes it is possible, and it is the motto of
Speaker 3: the United farm Workers Union, co founded by union activists
Speaker 3: Cesar Chavez and Dolores Squerta. The phrase is credited to
Speaker 3: Miss Huerta in support of Caesar's hunger strike the union's creation.
Speaker 3: I love the phrase and wanted the young dance team
Speaker 3: to have words that reflected their strength and commitment to
Speaker 3: their goal. And it was great to hear these words
Speaker 3: spoken on television. It always makes me smile. I really
Speaker 3: loved that she got to say that this was for
Speaker 3: the fifteenth anniversary of the movie, so twenty seventeen. But that, yeah,
Speaker 3: this is in a movie that, as you'll hear in
Speaker 3: our discussion, certainly has plenty to criticize about a lack
Speaker 3: of cultural specificity the phrase and also having it contextualized
Speaker 3: as something that was important to this character's grandma does
Speaker 3: sort of give it a cultural specificity. And I don't know, honestly, like,
Speaker 3: I don't know if I ever would have learned this
Speaker 3: phrase if it weren't for this movie. Nice, thanks for sharing.
Speaker 2: Okay, wow, I said, bravely, Yeah it.
Speaker 3: Thanks, thank you.
Speaker 2: Anyways, anyways, back to the cap no I kid, But
Speaker 2: also here's the rest of the recap.
Speaker 3: Okay, fine, So.
Speaker 2: The team competes at Hamilton Middle School and they get
Speaker 2: third place. And while they're there, a woman named Linell Elliott,
Speaker 2: who's the dean at a prestigious performing arts high school,
Speaker 2: approaches Daisy and wants her to apply to the school,
Speaker 2: and Daisy is hopeful, but she's also concerned about tuition costs.
Speaker 3: And things like that. I really love again it's like
Speaker 3: another teen movie thing, but the name of the dance
Speaker 3: scout is a woman named Linell Elliott played by vonn
Speaker 3: Farrow and I just love when a character is only
Speaker 3: referred to by their full name for essentibly no reason
Speaker 3: to just like intimate their grandeur. And so they never
Speaker 3: call her Linell. They never call her miss Elliott. Every
Speaker 3: single time, it's Lynelle Elliot's gonna be there, and it's
Speaker 3: like they're saying Barbara streisand but it's just like a
Speaker 3: lady in the movie, and she's always wearing a pantsuit.
Speaker 3: She's kind of like our resident girl boss of the movie,
Speaker 3: and she's great, and she's sort of like, you know,
Speaker 3: she's like, hey, you know, we can get you a
Speaker 3: full scholarship, and you're like, wow, that never happens. Lenelle
Speaker 3: Elliott as far as we know an icon we're respecting
Speaker 3: ally Yeah, yeah, true, it's Lenell Elliott for crying out loud.
Speaker 2: Yeah famously. Okay, So the girls return from the competition.
Speaker 2: Their parents are really upset for just sort of like
Speaker 2: disappearing for a few hours. Miss Bartlett finds out about it,
Speaker 2: and she's also upset that they betrayed her trust. But
Speaker 2: Daisy is like, well, it feels like you don't believe
Speaker 2: in us, and Miss Bartlett is like, actually, it's that
Speaker 2: I don't believe in myself and I've put too much
Speaker 2: pressure on myself to be perfect. And then so after
Speaker 2: this heart to heart, everyone feels ready to keep competing,
Speaker 2: so the team puts together another routine they gear up
Speaker 2: for regionals. There's some drama along the way, such as
Speaker 2: Daisy's boyfriend, Chewey can't handle that she's spending so much
Speaker 2: time dancing, so he breaks.
Speaker 4: Up with her.
Speaker 3: Ugh, we'll talk about that. Yeah, the school.
Speaker 2: Doesn't have the budget to pay for their trip to regionals.
Speaker 2: And then also miss Bartlett was offered a job at
Speaker 2: another dot com company or whatever they keep calling it.
Speaker 2: And the team finds out about this job offer and
Speaker 2: they feel betrayed, but Miss Bartlett is like, no, I
Speaker 2: turned it down. I'm still your dance coach. And then
Speaker 2: they put on a car wash slash food festival thing
Speaker 2: to raise funds for the trip to regionals. And then
Speaker 2: also Chewy comes around and apologizes for being an ass.
Speaker 2: And then it's the day of the regional competition. The
Speaker 2: team is there with their new uniforms. Daisy almost chokes
Speaker 2: because Linnell Elliott is there to evaluate her dancing, but
Speaker 2: she does a good job the team puts on a
Speaker 2: great performance and they get second place.
Speaker 1: Yay.
Speaker 3: The end, Yes, I always forget because it's like, it
Speaker 3: does feel like such an unconventional choice to be like,
Speaker 3: let's end at the penultimate competition and we'll just sort
Speaker 3: of tell you in a slide how they did. Yeah,
Speaker 3: we'll talk about this in a second. But like, because
Speaker 3: this is semi based on real experience, I was like,
Speaker 3: why couldn't they just win first place?
Speaker 5: Why?
Speaker 3: Yeah, embellish those details, you know, you gotta kick it up.
Speaker 3: The plot that is wow. And with that, let's take
Speaker 3: a break and come back with a full discussion with
Speaker 3: our wonderful guest.
Speaker 2: All right, we are pleased to be joined by our
Speaker 2: special guest. She's a freelance journalist. She covers culture and style.
Speaker 2: It's Mikita Revas. Hello, Hello, Hi, welcome.
Speaker 3: Welcome, thank you, thank you for having me of course so.
Speaker 2: Much for being here. So we approached you because you
Speaker 2: had written a really great piece in Refinery twenty nine
Speaker 2: about the movie, and so we're just curious basically what
Speaker 2: your relationship with this movie is kind of preliminary thoughts
Speaker 2: and then we'll get further into it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because we also want to talk about how I mean,
Speaker 3: your piece is about how your feelings about it just
Speaker 3: changed over time.
Speaker 4: Yeah. What's interesting is I hadn't really thought about this
Speaker 4: movie in probably twenty years, and.
Speaker 5: I have been contributing at Refinery twenty nine s almost
Speaker 5: for a while. And my editor was like, Hey, this
Speaker 5: anniversary is coming up for this movie, which you know
Speaker 5: was pretty influential for a lot of young Latinas growing up,
Speaker 5: you know, fifteen twenty years ago, So would you want
Speaker 5: to rewatch.
Speaker 4: It and just sort of like let me know your thoughts,
Speaker 4: and so I had.
Speaker 5: Honestly, I kind of went into it a blank slate,
Speaker 5: Like I think I last saw it on the Disney
Speaker 5: Channel when I was maybe eleven twelve years old.
Speaker 4: Give or take.
Speaker 5: So I couldn't really recall much other than like your
Speaker 5: typical group of like rebellious, troubled kids who are essentially
Speaker 5: kind of like adopted by this like white savior, you know,
Speaker 5: sort of character. And then upon rewatch, I was like, oh, wow,
Speaker 5: like some of this has not aged very well. So
Speaker 5: it was sort of a journey, but there were still
Speaker 5: parts of it that did feel heartwarming. So it was
Speaker 5: a little like a mix of both I would say
Speaker 5: for sure.
Speaker 2: Sure, I mean there's something to be said for I mean,
Speaker 2: LATINX representation in like major Hollywood movies is still extremely low,
Speaker 2: and so for this dcom too, I mean you could
Speaker 2: are I was gonna say for it to center this
Speaker 2: like Team of Latina.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you didn't argue that it's like the Lady
Speaker 3: centers first of all, so distracting that it's like the
Speaker 3: lady who voiced Bell because once I learned that, I
Speaker 3: couldn't unhear the voice the Hi. Yeah. But it's like
Speaker 3: also about her like flopping at Juilliard, and you're like, well,
Speaker 3: I don't care about her flopping at Julliard.
Speaker 5: I just don't, right, Yeah, And I think there was
Speaker 5: It's like another part where she talks about like growing up,
Speaker 5: her parents like wanted her to work really hard. She
Speaker 5: was just saying like I felt like I had to
Speaker 5: be the best or like good was never good enough,
Speaker 5: And essentially it felt like her sob story was like
Speaker 5: her parents wanted her to work too hard and just
Speaker 5: like I mean, I'm not trying to minimize that by
Speaker 5: any means, but it just was sort of like I
Speaker 5: don't know if this like warrants you you know, like
Speaker 5: kind of diverting away from you know, the other Latina
Speaker 5: characters in the movie. It kind of felt like there
Speaker 5: were parts where her backstory probably could have been compressed
Speaker 5: a little bit more right.
Speaker 3: And one thing that really stuck with me about your
Speaker 3: piece was how you closed it, which is by saying
Speaker 3: why couldn't Miss Bartlett been Latina? Like why? And I
Speaker 3: had the same feeling as I was rewatching it where
Speaker 3: I don't know, I found it very interesting that this
Speaker 3: movie was directed by this director as Stand and Deliver,
Speaker 3: because you're like, oh, this guy's bread and butter is
Speaker 3: teachers bringing students together, but having I mean, obviously the
Speaker 3: optics of the teacher being white and clearly from a
Speaker 3: more privileged background just like totally undercuts a lot of
Speaker 3: elements of the story. And yeah, your suggestion was like, yeah,
Speaker 3: why did they not do that?
Speaker 4: I don't know, questions that need answers.
Speaker 3: And we don't have them.
Speaker 2: Although I guess what informs this choice, yeah, justifies it,
Speaker 2: but informs it at the very least is a little
Speaker 2: bit of context, which is so the story is based
Speaker 2: on the experience of Megan Cole, who is one of
Speaker 2: the I guess creative minds behind this movie. She has
Speaker 2: like a story by credit, and she's also a co producer.
Speaker 3: She was like a producer at Disney at the time,
Speaker 3: so she was like the one to pitch the story right.
Speaker 2: And so I'll just quote an article or a review
Speaker 2: from the La Times entitled life inspires story with some
Speaker 2: kick so quote. Prior to joining the Walt Disney Company,
Speaker 2: Cole was involved with the nonprofit Teach for America program
Speaker 2: that places instructors in under resourced schools across the country. Cole,
Speaker 2: who has a master's degree in education from Harvard University,
Speaker 2: me vibes with my master's degree in screenwriting from Boston University,
Speaker 2: something that I'm.
Speaker 3: Okay, You're like, it's in Boston, basically Harvard Harvard. Okay,
Speaker 3: So back to the quote.
Speaker 2: So, Cole, who has a master's degree in education, landed
Speaker 2: at Nimit's Middle School in Huntington Park, where she started
Speaker 2: the campus's first competitive dance program. Although Got to Kick
Speaker 2: It Up was quote unquote inspired by her experiences at Nimt's.
Speaker 2: The the movie is said at a fictitious Marshall Middle School.
Speaker 2: And then I'll kind of end the quote because it
Speaker 2: sort of just recaps the movie, but it puts into
Speaker 2: perspective why the movie focuses so much on this right,
Speaker 2: like white woman.
Speaker 3: Even so, though like, with all due respect to Megan,
Speaker 3: she is she upped herself to having gone to Juilliard,
Speaker 3: which is pretty significant creative license because from what I
Speaker 3: could see, she was on her high school dance team.
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, if Megan went to Juilliard, so did
Speaker 3: I and I didn't. But I feel like that even that,
Speaker 3: like taking that creative license pretty clearly illustrates that there
Speaker 3: are elements of the story that were not adapted one
Speaker 3: to one, and so keeping the teacher as a more privileged,
Speaker 3: college educated white woman was a very changeable thing, and
Speaker 3: it feels pointed that they did not view that particular
Speaker 3: element of the story as changeable.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I definitely agree with that.
Speaker 3: So my understanding of I just wanted to, yeah, go
Speaker 3: a little more into the context of this, where like
Speaker 3: these movie of the week, Like tracking production for movies
Speaker 3: of the week is so difficult because I'm like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: this movie was made in Canada for twelve dollars in
Speaker 3: two weeks.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's hard to trace the history, right, that's.
Speaker 3: Just how they're made. But my understanding is that Megan
Speaker 3: Cole pitched the story loosely based on her own experiences,
Speaker 3: and then they hired another screenwriter who had written the
Speaker 3: Selena movie a couple of years before, Nancy Delo Santos,
Speaker 3: who wrote the main teleplay along with two sort of
Speaker 3: Disney white guys stalwarts, and that the director Ramon Menendez
Speaker 3: also helped with the stories. It was a very like
Speaker 3: collaborative effort. But from what I understood, I mean, there
Speaker 3: was an interview with Nancy Della Santos a couple of
Speaker 3: years ago that makes it seem like she was It
Speaker 3: was mainly a collaboration between herself and Megan Cole, where
Speaker 3: Nancy went to the middle school where Megan Cole had taught,
Speaker 3: She interviewed the former dancers that she'd worked with, and
Speaker 3: tried to write a story that revolved around Latina's based
Speaker 3: on women that she spoke to, which I think is
Speaker 3: great and makes it even more frustrating that it's like
Speaker 3: the whole Megan Cole needing to be Megan Cole within
Speaker 3: the story is such a sticking point.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was a little surprised to hear about Nancy's involvement,
Speaker 5: and you would think that her involvement would hopefully had
Speaker 5: had an influence on maybe steering the story in another direction.
Speaker 5: But at the end of the day, I guess.
Speaker 4: Not so much.
Speaker 3: Every time there's a situation like that, I'm like, I
Speaker 3: can't imagine how much pushback you would get from a
Speaker 3: place like like I'm sure that she wanted to include
Speaker 3: less garbage than ends up in the movie. Yeah, or
Speaker 3: what helps her? She It was a lovely interview. We
Speaker 3: can link it in the description. She's talked specifically about
Speaker 3: being proud of getting the cisabdde phrase into the movie
Speaker 3: and including some you know, actual cultural history and explaining
Speaker 3: what it is, which again was just rare in these
Speaker 3: Disney movies of the week. It would usually be like
Speaker 3: a dog learns to bake or whatever. Right, yeah, a
Speaker 3: house is smart? What about house is smart? Okay, that's
Speaker 3: a good one though, so watch your mask?
Speaker 4: Oh my god, good time.
Speaker 2: You would also think that with Nancy's involvement, the Latina
Speaker 2: characters would have been a little bit more amplified as
Speaker 2: far as their characterization and their interior lives, their backstories,
Speaker 2: and we get a little bit of that for some
Speaker 2: of the character but I feel like some of the
Speaker 2: characterization was just a little undercooked, especially with like and
Speaker 2: maybe it's just because America Ferreira is such a star, yeah, now,
Speaker 2: and for her to like we never meet her family,
Speaker 2: we never see her at home.
Speaker 3: The only thing we know is that she's bad at math,
Speaker 3: and you're like, Okay, well that's relatable, but what else.
Speaker 3: It's wild because like she's and again it's probably partially
Speaker 3: because she became so famous so quickly after this movie,
Speaker 3: but she was sort of like one of the only
Speaker 3: parts I remembered about this movie, and I was surprised
Speaker 3: to rewatch it and see that they Yeah, they've barely
Speaker 3: written a character for her.
Speaker 5: Yeah, she's surprisingly one dimensional and like you said, she's
Speaker 5: such a star and she commands the screen and you
Speaker 5: kind of like want more from her when you're when
Speaker 5: you're watching. So yeah, that's a little a little disappointing
Speaker 5: for sure. Like the character development in general is very
Speaker 5: inequitable across the girls, I would say.
Speaker 2: Right, And it's like at the expense of the Miss
Speaker 2: Bartlett character having so much like she has the most
Speaker 2: significant arc, she has the most significant backstory. Why Is
Speaker 2: that the case when it's a movie about this group
Speaker 2: of girls on this dance team at the school.
Speaker 3: Well, let's take it sort of character by character, Yeah,
Speaker 3: just so we can talk about what we do learn
Speaker 3: about characters. So, honestly, I don't know how, unfortunately, how
Speaker 3: much more I have to say about Yolanda's character, because
Speaker 3: there really isn't much there. I know I like her,
Speaker 3: but I'm like, is it just because I like America Ferrara? Maybe?
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: The character I feel like there is the we learn
Speaker 3: the most about and there's the most to talk about
Speaker 3: is Daisy. Yeah. And I know that Mikita, you sort
Speaker 3: of spoke on how you felt about Daisy and your
Speaker 3: piece a little bit. But I'm curious, Yeah, what do
Speaker 3: you make of that character?
Speaker 4: Crazy? She's so interesting to be.
Speaker 5: I mean, I think I think she has a pretty
Speaker 5: authentic character arc, you know, like for kind of playing
Speaker 5: that typical troubled teen who you know, doesn't maybe have
Speaker 5: the most respect for authority and kind of like all
Speaker 5: of those tropes, I think she plays it with a
Speaker 5: certain degree of heart, So I do like feel for her,
Speaker 5: and toward the end when her and Miss Bartlett like
Speaker 5: kind of finally see eye to eye, and you know,
Speaker 5: you kind of have that like Disney Channel happy ending.
Speaker 4: I am ultimately rooting for her.
Speaker 5: I think there are some parts where the conflict maybe
Speaker 5: felt like a little contrived, Like when I was rewatching
Speaker 5: it and it was like, oh, she like got up
Speaker 5: and danced in class and then got like a month's
Speaker 5: attention and that was like the whole reason why the
Speaker 5: whole thing started, you know what I mean, And it
Speaker 5: was just like this is Yeah, it was a little
Speaker 5: like that part was a little like cringe and lappable,
Speaker 5: but you know, taking it for what it is, like
Speaker 5: being a Disney Channel movie, I think I think she
Speaker 5: plays it pretty well, and like I will say, her boyfriend.
Speaker 4: Is another interesting character. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's your response
Speaker 4: is pretty much something.
Speaker 3: Like yeah, because I mean I have a huge nostalgic
Speaker 3: attachment to this movie. But as I was rewatching it,
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, I basically remember nothing about what happened.
Speaker 3: I just remember being like, girls dancing is awesome to me. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that was basically my takeaway for sure. But there are
Speaker 3: two back to back conflicts that are immediately resolved towards
Speaker 3: the end of the movie, where the first one I
Speaker 3: thought was very funny because it was like, misterwebsite dot
Speaker 3: com comes to missus Bartletts and he's like, this website
Speaker 3: is taken off. You gotta join the website. And then
Speaker 3: she's like, I don't know, should I join the website?
Speaker 3: And then in the next thing, she's like, I'm not
Speaker 3: going to join the website. You're like, well, then why
Speaker 3: did I have to look at that?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 3: What's the point?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 3: The second one I think is more interesting because, like
Speaker 3: you're Sayingnikita, Daisy has a boyfriend named Chewie, who I'm like,
Speaker 3: how old is this? Yeah? I know she is fourteen,
Speaker 3: get away from her, but we don't know. So if
Speaker 3: we were like he's TV fifteen, which is like human
Speaker 3: twenty seven, we don't know. Right, he's old enough to
Speaker 3: have a driver's license, so she's really sixteen, So he's
Speaker 3: ambiguously older than her. Even if we're leaving that on
Speaker 3: the table, I thought he was an interesting character because
Speaker 3: I don't know. I feel like, very often you are
Speaker 3: shown drop out characters as like this person is bad,
Speaker 3: they're bad news, and anyone who drops out of high
Speaker 3: school is bad, which is so prescriptive and such bullshit
Speaker 3: that I towards the beginning of the story appreciated that
Speaker 3: it was like he dropped out of high school, but
Speaker 3: he's thriving to the extent that he can. He's got
Speaker 3: a job, like he's doing okay. And it was a
Speaker 3: sympathetic character who yeah, was generally supportive towards Daisy at first.
Speaker 3: But then but well that's the thing that's like a
Speaker 3: writing thing to me where he just like, to me,
Speaker 3: turned out of nowhere and was like, actually I hate you.
Speaker 5: It did seem out of nowhere. Yeah, super out of
Speaker 5: left field. I don't know where that decision came from.
Speaker 2: I think they're like, oh, we need more drama, more drama.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that was it.
Speaker 3: But then it like also resolves within ten minutes because
Speaker 3: he's like, I hate you. We were supposed to have
Speaker 3: a family. And then she correctly is like I'm fourteen
Speaker 3: and missus Bartlett I think you know, correctly advises Daisy
Speaker 3: to be like, hey, don't worry about what this guy
Speaker 3: is telling you if he's an asshole, like this is
Speaker 3: a good opportunity for you. Yeah, but that's also loaded
Speaker 3: coming from the white savior teacher about a Latin teenage boy,
Speaker 3: and so that also felt bizarre. And then it doesn't
Speaker 3: matter because he's like, ah, I change my mind, I'm
Speaker 3: supportive again. Right Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: My main takeaway from that was he does not deserve
Speaker 2: the redemption this story gives him, because he's really cruel
Speaker 2: and he's basically just like, don't follow your dreams. All
Speaker 2: you should do is spend time with me. This whole
Speaker 2: dance thing is getting in the way, and don't do that.
Speaker 2: And if you're not willing to compromise and like basically
Speaker 2: give up dance for me, then you're out of my life.
Speaker 2: And she's like, once again, I'm fourteen. Why this conversation?
Speaker 2: And then like a few seays later, he shows up
Speaker 2: at the car wash and he's like just kidding, here's yeah.
Speaker 3: You're like, we need a higher forgiveness tax exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 3: he needs to put in more effort.
Speaker 5: I don't know if it was supposed to be speaking
Speaker 5: to like the fickleness of teenagers and maybe like teenage
Speaker 5: boys in general. I don't know, but yeah, it did
Speaker 5: seem like kind of like emotional whiplash.
Speaker 3: There, Oh sure, yeah, And I mean, ultimately, I it
Speaker 3: was frustrating because again the age thing was throwing me,
Speaker 3: but I generally liked Chewie, and it seems like they
Speaker 3: were like not bad for each other, like or what
Speaker 3: teenage relationship is good? Really like they famously don't go well,
Speaker 3: but like it didn't seem like they were bad for
Speaker 3: each other, And it seemed like the story had a
Speaker 3: lot of love for him and had an interest in
Speaker 3: like characterizing him to be like a person, and then
Speaker 3: it just felt like the script turned on him. It
Speaker 3: didn't feel like that was foreshadowed in any way. Definitely not.
Speaker 2: But anyways, Daisy, Daisy Well to bring it all back,
Speaker 2: is what we know mostly about her.
Speaker 3: I guess you know.
Speaker 2: She's the character who butts heads most with Miss Bartlett.
Speaker 2: She's also her friendship with Yolanda seems to be the
Speaker 2: strongest friendship in the movie, even though we kind of
Speaker 2: know nothing about it because again we know nothing about Yolanda,
Speaker 2: but at least like the script a lot space to
Speaker 2: establish them as close friends. But aside from that, the
Speaker 2: main thing we understand or learn about Daisy's interior life
Speaker 2: is her relationship with her boyfriend, which like fine, but
Speaker 2: because especially we get other characters and more information about
Speaker 2: their home lives and you know, we meet their families
Speaker 2: or we have a sense of like what their interests
Speaker 2: are outside of dance and.
Speaker 3: Stuff like that.
Speaker 2: But it just felt a little, i don't know, just
Speaker 2: a very easy choice to make. For like, the character
Speaker 2: who's essentially the protagonist in Daisy is the one who's like, well,
Speaker 2: of course she has a hetero boyfriend.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it kind of seems like most of her story,
Speaker 5: outside of the central conflict between her and Miss Bartlett,
Speaker 5: is essentially about her being in a relationship, you know,
Speaker 5: with this interesting, chewy character. So I do think that
Speaker 5: was a missed opportunity, and again for Yoli as well.
Speaker 5: I don't really understand why certain characters got maybe a
Speaker 5: more holistic sort of treatment in terms of like painting
Speaker 5: their family life and at least like putting faces to
Speaker 5: names in terms of who the parents were, whose siblings were,
Speaker 5: and things like that. It would have been nice to
Speaker 5: have had that for all the girls totally.
Speaker 3: Well, that's part of what it seems like. Part of
Speaker 3: the reason this even made it to air, which also
Speaker 3: speaks to the dearth of Latin stories that were out
Speaker 3: there at this time, was because a white lady who
Speaker 3: already worked at Disney happened to have this experience, and
Speaker 3: so she becomes so baked into the story. But like,
Speaker 3: as I was rewatching it and also just reflecting on
Speaker 3: what I remembered about the movie, which was teenage girls
Speaker 3: dancing and that was my favorite thing in the world. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I did not remember how integral the coach character was,
Speaker 3: and I wish, I guess it was closer to my
Speaker 3: warped childhood memory, which was like, this is a movie
Speaker 3: about a group of Latina middle schoolers who form a
Speaker 3: dance team and win. And I was surprised and kind
Speaker 3: of bummed out that the movie did not center around
Speaker 3: their relationships with each other as much, which I feel like,
Speaker 3: kind of if we're talking dcom expanded universe, I think
Speaker 3: I was maybe projecting some Cheetah Girls onto Yeah, try
Speaker 3: to kick it up, because that movie, which we've talked
Speaker 3: about on the show and has many of its own faults,
Speaker 3: but does generally focus on how the girls relate to
Speaker 3: each other and they're in a personal conflict, and that
Speaker 3: doesn't exist in this movie as much as I thought
Speaker 3: it would, which sucks because it's like, I wish that
Speaker 3: the central relationship in this movie was between Daisy and Yoli,
Speaker 3: Like that makes more sense than having Daisy's tether be
Speaker 3: this lady who flunked out of Julia art, like who cares,
Speaker 3: right right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: The friendship between Daisy Andoli is the most the one
Speaker 2: we know exists, but again we don't know anything about
Speaker 2: it except that they seem to bond over their mutual
Speaker 2: interest in dance. There is conflict between Daisy and Esmrelda
Speaker 2: to some degree. Where as Morelda she isn't quite so
Speaker 2: challenging of authority as Daisy is, and so she's like,
Speaker 2: come on, let's dance and let's follow the rules. Yes,
Speaker 2: And Daisy thinks she's like kind of a nerd based
Speaker 2: on her choice and pass.
Speaker 3: That felt pretty like classic like contrived introvert versus extrovert.
Speaker 5: Yeah, like almost like as Marelda being sort of like
Speaker 5: the goody two shoes and Daisy is like the non
Speaker 5: goodie two shoes basically, you know, doesn't necessarily listen to
Speaker 5: authority and wants to kind of like do her own
Speaker 5: thing and but agree, And that also felt contrived. I
Speaker 5: think like one of the first lines in the film
Speaker 5: is like as Morelda is trying to share like some
Speaker 5: music that she wants, like the girls to dance too,
Speaker 5: and I think Daisy's like I have the moves, I
Speaker 5: pick the tunes or something like that.
Speaker 4: You know, And it's just like, so that's so two
Speaker 4: thousands of movies.
Speaker 5: Oh, two thousands, like very like bring it on esque dialogue? Yes, yeah,
Speaker 5: and you're just like, wait, why is this like suddenly contentious?
Speaker 5: Like aren't you guys friends? So that was also kind
Speaker 5: of weird at times, and it kind of.
Speaker 3: Goes under explored too, because it's like that that conflict
Speaker 3: comes up a few times, but you never really know
Speaker 3: where it comes from, and then it seems like it
Speaker 3: just sort of dissipates over time, which can't be true
Speaker 3: of conflict between teenagers. But it's like it's a movie
Speaker 3: of the week. I need more information, I need more info.
Speaker 4: Yeah for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Daisy says something like get your girly music out
Speaker 2: of here. It's like, first of all, what's almost girly music?
Speaker 3: To find that?
Speaker 4: Yeah? What is early music?
Speaker 3: What mean by that?
Speaker 2: So? Esmerelda is one of the characters whose home life
Speaker 2: we do see. We meet both of her parents. They
Speaker 2: seem loving and supportive, although they expect a lo lot
Speaker 2: of as Maralda, especially as far as like providing some
Speaker 2: care for her younger brother. They appear to both be
Speaker 2: like working parents who probably have pretty demanding work schedules,
Speaker 2: so they rely on as Marealda. And I like that
Speaker 2: there's a scene where she like sticks up for herself,
Speaker 2: like you expect so much from me, why can't I
Speaker 2: have this one thing for myself?
Speaker 5: And I was like, yeah, yeah, I love that scene too,
Speaker 5: and I was so I remember being angry when I
Speaker 5: rewatched that scene if it's the same scene that I think,
Speaker 5: because I think it's after they like placed at a competition,
Speaker 5: like they did really.
Speaker 4: Well, Yeah they did so well, Yeah, they did really well.
Speaker 5: And then she comes home and her parents are like,
Speaker 5: didn't you know we're supposed to have.
Speaker 4: Dinner at your aunts and where are you?
Speaker 5: You're supposed to babysit your brother and you're supposed to
Speaker 5: cook your brother's dinner and like all.
Speaker 4: This stuff, and I'm just like, she's fourteen, Like you
Speaker 4: guys are the parents like relax, relax.
Speaker 5: Like But I will say that part feels authentic and
Speaker 5: that it at least depicted a reality, you know, for
Speaker 5: a lot of Latine LATINX families, you know, starting young,
Speaker 5: if you're in a multi generational home, especially eldest daughters
Speaker 5: will take on a lot of that emotional labor and
Speaker 5: just actual labor in the household.
Speaker 4: So that was one thing I think they got right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that could have been explored a little bit definitely,
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for sure. And then the other character whose
Speaker 2: home life we see is Alyssa. She has the like
Speaker 2: extremely supportive parents who are showing up to all the competitions.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, and I felt like it was like partially
Speaker 3: implied because we get two families that are characterized and
Speaker 3: one or two working class parents and the other seem
Speaker 3: to be middle class to upper middle class parents, and
Speaker 3: those are the parents that we see as being actively supportive.
Speaker 3: It just felt like pointed in a way that felt
Speaker 3: a little icky. I don't know what did everyone think
Speaker 3: about it?
Speaker 4: That it's almost like too easy or like too obvious.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, the implications the optics of it are like
Speaker 2: just yeah, just an easy stereotypical chance to make without examining, like, well,
Speaker 2: if working class parents appear less supportive, why would that be.
Speaker 2: They have to work usually more hours at more often
Speaker 2: physically demanding jobs, all of the context is not really
Speaker 2: explored in this particular instance, although I think the movie
Speaker 2: handles class in otherwise like pretty interesting ways, because it
Speaker 2: does acknowledge that this is a school in a lower
Speaker 2: income neighborhood. There's references to like some students dropping out,
Speaker 2: maybe at a higher rate than wealthier schools nearby. There's
Speaker 2: like a possibility that some students may join gangs. I
Speaker 2: think the principal that he like cites that as a
Speaker 2: reason that Miss Bartlett should coach the dance team because
Speaker 2: it'll help keep kids out of gangs.
Speaker 3: But that also and then they're like white savior coded
Speaker 3: to me like I. I also, I did not really
Speaker 3: like how the principal spoke about his own students and
Speaker 3: to his own students at a number of points in
Speaker 3: the movie, where like when we meet him, he is
Speaker 3: telling a black teenager to pull his pants up, which
Speaker 3: if there is not a more reductive two thousand and
Speaker 3: two thing to be happening in a movie. And then
Speaker 3: I struggled with the principle because it just seems like
Speaker 3: I believe that he cared about his students, but there
Speaker 3: were but the way that he spoke about them behind
Speaker 3: their backs felt like it really like it was very
Speaker 3: very harsh and reductive at a number of points. I
Speaker 3: didn't love him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he also loves the military or like brought his
Speaker 2: military brackground and he.
Speaker 4: Was like in the military.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was definitely like I guess the implication that
Speaker 5: let these types of students need or require this kind
Speaker 5: of like strict militaristic style like form of authority.
Speaker 4: I guess in order to be you know, led in
Speaker 4: the right direction or whatever.
Speaker 5: Like the tough love kind of thing is like that
Speaker 5: sort of trope, like that's what's required.
Speaker 4: And it's like, well, or you could just like not
Speaker 4: be an asshole.
Speaker 3: Basically exactly high school principles I feel like are all
Speaker 3: cut of the same cloth to some extent where it's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: you have to be sort of hardened to the world
Speaker 3: if your job is being torn to shreds by teenagers
Speaker 3: every day. Very true, I wouldn't survive a day. But
Speaker 3: I feel like it's frustrating because we see him be
Speaker 3: very harsh to the students to their face. It would
Speaker 3: have been nice to see, I guess him have like
Speaker 3: a gentle moment with a student, but we really only
Speaker 3: see him have gentle moments with missus Bartlett for some reason,
Speaker 3: and you're like, again, miss Bartlett is just like in
Speaker 3: the way, in this weird way where it's like, oh,
Speaker 3: let me show my soft side to this random lady
Speaker 3: with no teaching experience, which just her dot com company failed.
Speaker 2: How does she go from having a background in dance
Speaker 2: to then being some executive at a tech company or
Speaker 2: like an internet startup or something, and then to a
Speaker 2: biology teacher? Like what is that trajectory?
Speaker 3: I mean, I think that that is probably an attempt
Speaker 3: to comment on, like on the Teach for America culture
Speaker 3: where it's like that program does bring in teachers that
Speaker 3: don't have a lot of experience. But again, it's just
Speaker 3: like the fact that we know about two of this
Speaker 3: lady's failed careers indicators that we know too much about her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then we like never learn anything about Yoli
Speaker 2: except that she's not good.
Speaker 3: Why do I know about all three of miss Bartlett's
Speaker 3: career and nothing about Yoli? Like it's really really unbalanced.
Speaker 5: I like what you just said about her just kind
Speaker 5: of being in the way of the story, Like that's
Speaker 5: what it feels like when I watched it. There would
Speaker 5: be a moment of like the girls being on screen
Speaker 5: or them with their families or something, and you're kind
Speaker 5: of just wanting a little bit more.
Speaker 4: And then it's like back to Miss Bartlett and.
Speaker 5: Like her the fact that she was a Juilliard for
Speaker 5: two weeks, and it's like, okay, I mean cool.
Speaker 3: She's crying. I just was like, I feel bad. I
Speaker 3: did laugh when she cried because you're just like, just like,
Speaker 3: get over it. Not that I get it. Trauma can
Speaker 3: look like anything, but this one where's pretty silly. One
Speaker 3: of my favorite moments in the movie that made me
Speaker 3: laugh because it was just so out of nowhere in
Speaker 3: Hoki was when Chewy and Daisy broke into the school
Speaker 3: on a weekend to like, I don't know, be mischievous
Speaker 3: or whatever they were. Yeah, she picks up her backpack. Yes,
Speaker 3: they broke into the school, and then she's like, wait,
Speaker 3: what's that music? And Miss Bartlet's like flash dancing in
Speaker 3: the gym by herself, and Chewiy's like, wow, she's hot,
Speaker 3: Like what am I watching? Why is this on my
Speaker 3: television screen? And then she finishes dancing and then she
Speaker 3: starts crying and you're like, oh god, we're gonna have
Speaker 3: to learn about what I don't care.
Speaker 2: Something that really stood out to me was it's miss
Speaker 2: Bartlett's idea for these girls to incorporate dance from their cultures,
Speaker 2: their cultural backgrounds, Like why wouldn't that be the girl's idea?
Speaker 2: And then the way miss Barlett frames it too, is like,
Speaker 2: let's do something really innovative by taking advantage of your background,
Speaker 2: which is such a white perspective to be like, of
Speaker 2: course you think that incorporating existing dance styles from other
Speaker 2: cultures would be innovative innovative.
Speaker 3: Well, this is coming from the same woman that on
Speaker 3: the first day of auditions was like, I will not
Speaker 3: allow any tardiness for any reason, even if you're Esmerelda
Speaker 3: and you have responsibility to your brother. Also, no dark
Speaker 3: lipstick and no jewelry and no just like all of
Speaker 3: these very pointed sounding comments to be like, I want
Speaker 3: you to be a Juilliard ballerina. Yeah, you're out. And
Speaker 3: I feel like it was at least presented in a
Speaker 3: way that was like, oh, she means business, where it's like, no,
Speaker 3: I think she's being She's saying a lot of fucked
Speaker 3: up things.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Like her subconscious bias was definitely showing it was like, oh,
Speaker 5: we're trying to paint the dancers like they can only
Speaker 5: be dancers if they look and act a certain way.
Speaker 5: And I do think obviously, you know, thinking about sort
Speaker 5: of the stereotypical white, blonde haired you know, Juliard Ballerina.
Speaker 5: And then to your point, those comments about like because
Speaker 5: I think Esmerelda was like walking in lane and she's like,
Speaker 5: I'm sorry, I had to you know, like pick up
Speaker 5: my brother after school or something like that, and she's
Speaker 5: just like, tardiness will not be accepted, and it's like
Speaker 5: it's your first.
Speaker 4: Day, Like can we be a little like realistic here?
Speaker 5: Yeah, And then the remark about the dark lipstick and
Speaker 5: like the long nails, and you know, like obviously it's
Speaker 5: like those are signifiers for a lot of Latinas in
Speaker 5: relation to how they do, you know, their beauty routine
Speaker 5: and things like that. So that was it's just like, yeah,
Speaker 5: definitely some like coded subtexts there. Whether that was intentional
Speaker 5: or not, you know what I mean, but it was
Speaker 5: definitely there, and.
Speaker 3: If it was intentional, it should have been commented on
Speaker 3: like as a part of like if we absolutely have
Speaker 3: to be invested in this woman's arc, unlearning her racist
Speaker 3: biases should be a part of that, but instead, the
Speaker 3: closest you get is another moment where I laughed, where
Speaker 3: it's like a serious scene between Missus Bartlett and Daisy,
Speaker 3: where Daisy teaches her the phrase cisipee and.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, she goes see see.
Speaker 3: You're like, oh my god, Missus Bartlett sucks so much,
Speaker 3: she's so annoying. Oh my god. Yeah, I little standard.
Speaker 2: That reminds me of another point you made in your
Speaker 2: Refinery twenty nine piece Mekita is the lack of diversity
Speaker 2: across the spectrum of Latini Dad where the characters for
Speaker 2: the part at a school that seems to be predominantly
Speaker 2: LATINX Latine students. They're at least on the dance team,
Speaker 2: there're no, for example, Afro Latina students. We're also not
Speaker 2: sure what nationality any of these girls are. We know
Speaker 2: that the other girl in the main cast, who is
Speaker 2: introduced later, so she has even less characterization than the
Speaker 2: other ones. But madrisoul I saw I want to say
Speaker 2: she is an immigrant from what country we don't know.
Speaker 2: And then the other thing with her is that there
Speaker 2: are several references to her English not being perfect which
Speaker 2: again just feels like another easy stereotypical choice, where of course,
Speaker 2: like when a language is not someone's first language, there
Speaker 2: will be challenges often for that speaker, but to like
Speaker 2: constantly draw attention to her not being anti speaker just
Speaker 2: felt a little and.
Speaker 3: Is because like that's the only thing we really know
Speaker 3: about her, like exactly, yeah, English not being her first
Speaker 3: language is sort of this clunky movie of the week
Speaker 3: way of conveying plot information, and that is like how
Speaker 3: it goes at the climax of the movie where it's
Speaker 3: like that is not not quite the joke, but like
Speaker 3: that is the function of her character is to communicate
Speaker 3: information to other people, and we know nothing about her.
Speaker 2: Other than that, yeah, right, And then they're like are
Speaker 2: you sure you even understood that correctly?
Speaker 4: Yeah, and she's like.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah.
Speaker 5: It's like it's probably something that could have been touched
Speaker 5: on like once and then not right, it doesn't need
Speaker 5: to keep Like there was definitely a lot of missed
Speaker 5: opportunities for just again more character development and something else
Speaker 5: that would be an.
Speaker 4: Actual like marker of her personality or her fact.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 4: It's just it was very one dimensional.
Speaker 2: I will say she is the one who says like, oh,
Speaker 2: it's like my grandmother always says see sepe, which becomes
Speaker 2: the team yahatto. So that's her contribution. But aside from that,
Speaker 2: we don't know really anything about her. But back to
Speaker 2: just the lack of diversity, and there are no cultural
Speaker 2: specifics for the girls who seem to be mostly well,
Speaker 2: I don't want to make any assumptions. I would hazard
Speaker 2: a guess that at least some of them are first generation,
Speaker 2: maybe some of their second generation or more, but you know,
Speaker 2: it would stand a reason that they would maybe mention like, oh,
Speaker 2: like you know, this is my specific cultural heritage, and
Speaker 2: maybe they didn't do that in the movie to just
Speaker 2: try to seem more inclusive, like we don't want to
Speaker 2: leave anybody. Yeah, so we're not going to be specific.
Speaker 3: But it also gets like the monolith syndrome.
Speaker 2: Right exactly.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So, and then there's not much body diversity either in
Speaker 2: the cast where I mean America Ferrera, especially during this
Speaker 2: time in her career, was one of the few young
Speaker 2: fat actors at this time, and this is something that
Speaker 2: a lot of movies she was in at this time
Speaker 2: calls a lot of attention to, or just a lot
Speaker 2: of the media because we.
Speaker 3: Covered row women have curves last year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't hate the way body size is
Speaker 2: handled in that movie. But then you've got things like
Speaker 2: Ugly Betty and like Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, which
Speaker 2: like so much attention is called to her size and
Speaker 2: how she's bigger than the other girls around. I like
Speaker 2: that this movie just allows her to be fat without
Speaker 2: calling attention to it. Although the first thing you see
Speaker 2: her doing in the movie is buying a candy bar,
Speaker 2: which again just like feels like a oh well, of course, yeah,
Speaker 2: fat girl is gonna buy candy and then that's not
Speaker 2: something we see any of the other girls doing.
Speaker 3: But I was also like, yeah, let her have her snack.
Speaker 3: Jesus fucking Christ. I hate that a girl eating a
Speaker 3: candy bar is a political statement. It's yeah, it's so frustrating.
Speaker 5: Well and even even worse it is like in that scene,
Speaker 5: I think she dropped it and then somebody stomped on it,
Speaker 5: and then like Daisy k cut you meet Daisy and
Speaker 5: she tells the bully to back off or whatever, and
Speaker 5: it's just I don't know, like you said, like, can
Speaker 5: we just let her have her candy bar? And like
Speaker 5: not make it into a thing because I think the
Speaker 5: bully said something like, oh is this part of your diet,
Speaker 5: like making.
Speaker 4: You know, like some snide remark and true, and that
Speaker 4: was unfortunate.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think we talked about this in the
Speaker 3: Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants episode forever ago. But yeah, like,
Speaker 3: because America Ferro was one of the only teen actors
Speaker 3: that wasn't extremely skinny at this time, it felt like
Speaker 3: she had to take on so much like not she
Speaker 3: couldn't just be an actor because she also had to
Speaker 3: be a signifier of body type that was supposedly not allowed,
Speaker 3: but now we're allowing it. But just for this one girl.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I mean and unfortunately I think that that
Speaker 3: there is still a lot of that around today. But
Speaker 3: it's just I don't know. I love America Fraras so much.
Speaker 3: I just like wish are the best in every damn thing.
Speaker 3: She had to take a lot of shit so much.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah for existing.
Speaker 2: I also wonder if because again because outside of her character,
Speaker 2: there's no body diversity. Yeah, and I almost wonder because
Speaker 2: she's the only fat character, is that why her characterization
Speaker 2: seems to be scaled back? Wouldn't surprise me, it's happened
Speaker 2: before in many movies where the one fat character in
Speaker 2: the movie has little to no characterization.
Speaker 4: I think that's a really good point, very possible.
Speaker 3: It's so bizarre because it's like this movie is so
Speaker 3: I think because of the genre, it is, like it's
Speaker 3: pretty vague in most ways other than you know that
Speaker 3: most of the characters are Latina. But like I mean,
Speaker 3: speaking to your point, Makita, and in your piece, like
Speaker 3: you would have to change very very little about Missus
Speaker 3: Bartlett for her to not be a white character. I
Speaker 3: think that there are elements that it's like, oh, this
Speaker 3: is cooked into who this character is, but it would
Speaker 3: have been easy to scale back. And I think that
Speaker 3: that is like kind of what can be potentially freeing
Speaker 3: about movies like this is that they're like not written
Speaker 3: in a hyper specific way, and so you can cast anybody,
Speaker 3: and like who you cast makes a difference. But I
Speaker 3: think in certain roles, yeah, like in Joli's role and
Speaker 3: in Missus Bartlett's role in particular, like they sort of
Speaker 3: played to stereotypes and they played to easy quote unquote
Speaker 3: marketable choices versus acting in the best interest of the characters.
Speaker 3: For sure.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Yeah, I would have loved to have seen a
Speaker 5: Latina and Afro latina play Miss Bartlett.
Speaker 4: I think that could have been really cool.
Speaker 3: But oh wow, absolutely.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, now they just need to remake the movie.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we need.
Speaker 3: Any other thoughts before we sort of wrap things up.
Speaker 2: My last little thing was, I think it's great that
Speaker 2: this is a predominantly female, femme cast, but I also
Speaker 2: think it would have been cool to see some boys
Speaker 2: on the dance team as well, especially in this context.
Speaker 2: Dance is considered to be like a more feminine activity,
Speaker 2: especially because they seem to and maybe this is a thing,
Speaker 2: Maybe this is just my ignorance about what certain high
Speaker 2: school extracurricular activities are actually like. But they're a dance team,
Speaker 2: but they're wearing cheerleading uniforms, and like, Okay, that's just
Speaker 2: my ignorance. Okay, anyway, so in any case, this would
Speaker 2: have been considered, I think, a more feminine extracurricular activity.
Speaker 2: But I think it would have been cool to see
Speaker 2: some boys like doing dance and being on the dance
Speaker 2: team to kind of challenge those genderal expectations. But I
Speaker 2: don't think that like takes away from the movie and Again,
Speaker 2: I appreciate that this is largely a like all femme cast,
Speaker 2: but that's it for me. Yeah, any other thoughts nothing
Speaker 2: for me.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think it's still like I feel a
Speaker 4: little nostalgic for it, and.
Speaker 5: I do think like we're watching these with the gift
Speaker 5: of hindsight, and you know, it's so easy to say
Speaker 5: we would do this and this differently. But you know,
Speaker 5: I appreciate that it was at least like a step
Speaker 5: in the right direction in terms of, you know, broadening
Speaker 5: representation on the Disney Channel, which like was such a
Speaker 5: seminole like pop culture thing for so many like millennials
Speaker 5: in particular. So I appreciate it for what it was
Speaker 5: at the time for sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, we talk about this a lot on the
Speaker 3: show of like Stepping Stone movies of like this movie's
Speaker 3: success you can hope because it was so I mean,
Speaker 3: clearly we're talking about it over twenty years later, like
Speaker 3: it is a well remembered movie. Yeah, this movie led
Speaker 3: to better and more thoughtful representation, and so in that way,
Speaker 3: I feel like, yeah, we talked about this in movies
Speaker 3: we grew up with all the time, where it's like, well, no,
Speaker 3: it's you know, it is in no way perfect, but
Speaker 3: because there were young people who wanted to make stuff
Speaker 3: watching it, it did have an important role and make
Speaker 3: a difference, which is kind of you know, in some
Speaker 3: ways the bust you can hope for.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely indeed, And it handily passes the Bechdel test.
Speaker 3: Yes, almost all the time, except when it's like the
Speaker 3: principle or chewy. I think those are really the only
Speaker 3: times where it isn't a discussion about something other than
Speaker 3: a man.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they're talking about dance. They're talking about Julia
Speaker 2: aren't bad at math, bad, etc. You know, all the
Speaker 2: major topics of conversation.
Speaker 3: Look, say what you will. I was talking a lot
Speaker 3: about being bad at math in high school. It consumed
Speaker 3: a lot of my time.
Speaker 2: Not me, I was talking about being good at math. Well, no,
Speaker 2: I'm kidding. I don't know what I was talking about
Speaker 2: in high school so long ago. Anyway, Yeah, it passes
Speaker 2: a lot, although I again I wish there was just
Speaker 2: more meaningful relationships established among the girls on the dance team.
Speaker 2: But it does still pass a lot. But as far
Speaker 2: as the perfect metric, which is of course our nipple scale,
Speaker 2: where we rate the movie on a scale of zero
Speaker 2: to five nipples. Examining it through an intersectional feminist lens,
Speaker 2: I'll be I'm between like a two and a half
Speaker 2: and a three. I do appreciate that the movie is
Speaker 2: in essence about a group of Latina dancers in middle school,
Speaker 2: even though they're in ninth grade, which is again maybe
Speaker 2: another thing that I'm misunderstanding that's confusing. Really, I was like,
Speaker 2: middle school ends at eighth grade. I thought ninth grade.
Speaker 3: I think it changes by region though, because I think
Speaker 3: in some places it's like it could be five to eight,
Speaker 3: it could be six to nine. Like, I'm pretty sure
Speaker 3: it varies.
Speaker 5: I will say when I was like going through middle
Speaker 5: school high school, I'm originally from like Nebraska, so like
Speaker 5: there were some high schools that.
Speaker 4: Were ten through twelve, oh okay, and then there were
Speaker 4: a couple of.
Speaker 5: Middle schools that I think were six through nine if
Speaker 5: I remember correctly, But I think at some point it
Speaker 5: all kind of shifted again, and then the traditional middle
Speaker 5: grades were six through eight. Right.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, when I think about like the range of
Speaker 3: dates that my public school went through, You're like, why
Speaker 3: it actually makes more sense to do it in like
Speaker 3: four year increments, because I did, like K through six,
Speaker 3: seven and eight and nine through twelve, and why was that?
Speaker 3: We'll never know.
Speaker 2: Anyways, another thing we don't have the answer to any case. Yeah,
Speaker 2: this is some antics that I shouldn't get hung up on.
Speaker 2: But I appreciate that it's about this group of Latina
Speaker 2: girls at this school that addresses class in you know,
Speaker 2: could have been handled more thoughtfully, but I appreciate that
Speaker 2: that's a component of it. We didn't really talk about
Speaker 2: the you know, Daisy getting an offer to apply to
Speaker 2: this like prestigious performing arts school and like assuming that
Speaker 2: she wouldn't be able to go because her mother couldn't
Speaker 2: afford it, and she's like hesitant because she thinks, she
Speaker 2: assumes it'll be a bunch of like rich white kids
Speaker 2: at this school. So, you know, it does some things
Speaker 2: to tackle class It does some things to sort of
Speaker 2: characterize some of the girls, but again because it is
Speaker 2: such a focus on the arc and the backstory of
Speaker 2: the Miss Bartlett character, especially where like she's a white
Speaker 2: woman from seemingly a more upper middle class background coming
Speaker 2: in to be this like white savior figure for these
Speaker 2: kids who might be on a bad path, so she
Speaker 2: has to reach them through dance, and it's like, well,
Speaker 2: they already want to do dance, Like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're actively preventing them at many points in the story.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and doing it you keep like trying to bail
Speaker 2: or like holding back they and they're constantly like it
Speaker 2: seems like you're holding out on us, like can you
Speaker 2: be more present and like quit betraying us all the time.
Speaker 2: And she's just like huh what anyway. So I think
Speaker 2: a lot of the choices feel very early two thousand's era.
Speaker 2: A lot of things were not challenged that would I
Speaker 2: think be challenged were the movie to come out today. Yeah,
Speaker 2: The lack of characterization for some of the girls, the
Speaker 2: lack of specificity I think is potentially harmful, lack of
Speaker 2: diversity among the Latina students, things like that. With all
Speaker 2: that in mind, so yeah, I think I'll give it
Speaker 2: two and a half nipples, sort of, let's split down
Speaker 2: the middle, and I will give one to America forra
Speaker 2: because she's just so wonderful. I'll give one to Camille Guati,
Speaker 2: that's who plays Daisy, and I'll give my half nipple
Speaker 2: to Marsol, who I wish we knew anything else about.
Speaker 4: I know any more. Information would have been.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going to go three. I kind of even
Speaker 3: want to go a little bit higher, but I think
Speaker 3: that that might be nostalgic. I'll go three, because, like
Speaker 3: we've been talking about, I mean, this movie has many shortcomings.
Speaker 3: Its lack of diversity within the Latin community, its lack
Speaker 3: of a specificity, the fact that this movie should absolutely
Speaker 3: be about the relationship of girls on the team and
Speaker 3: not girls and Juilliard flops like that will never stop
Speaker 3: being annoying to me. I totally forgot about it, and
Speaker 3: now I will never forget about it. Yeah, I think that, like,
Speaker 3: this movie definitely fumbles in a lot of ways, and
Speaker 3: also I want to hold space for it as a
Speaker 3: very very unique movie to its time, at least in
Speaker 3: I mean in the like millennial movie.
Speaker 2: Especially targeted toward like young tweens or just young people
Speaker 2: in general.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, it's almost and it shouldn't be this way, but
Speaker 3: it is almost completely singular in terms of like a
Speaker 3: piece of mass media designed for tween girls that is
Speaker 3: theoretically exclusively about Latina teens. And I appreciate that it
Speaker 3: had such a big impact and on the rewatch, I
Speaker 3: wish that because it had such a big impact. It
Speaker 3: had handled a number of issues better. Miss Bartlet's a flop.
Speaker 3: I wish that we could just sort of eject her
Speaker 3: out of the movie or change significant things about her.
Speaker 3: There were a number of girls on the team I
Speaker 3: wanted to know more about and didn't. And yeah, the
Speaker 3: lack of cultural specificity felt very I don't know, indicative
Speaker 3: of what Disney Channel was about at the time, even
Speaker 3: when they were producing movies like Gotta Kick It Up,
Speaker 3: which is that it seems like the undercurrent for Disney then,
Speaker 3: and you could also still say Disney now is that
Speaker 3: they are assuming whiteness of their audience, and so they're
Speaker 3: assuming that you wouldn't care about more cultural specificity, which
Speaker 3: first of all is not true and second of all
Speaker 3: is deeply white centric and reductive. I'm going to give
Speaker 3: this maybe three nipples on nostalgia points, and because I
Speaker 3: do genuinely believe it led to better representation down the line,
Speaker 3: because it was so successful. I'm going to give one
Speaker 3: nipple to Daisy, She's the best. I'm going to give
Speaker 3: a second nipple to Yoli because in my memory she
Speaker 3: was the protagonist and turned out not to be. And
Speaker 3: my final nipple. I'm going to give to a scene
Speaker 3: that made me laugh so much, the scene where the
Speaker 3: website guy comes to Missus house and says his website
Speaker 3: is huge gossip and news for teens. You could go
Speaker 3: to London, and I was like, what a speech. What
Speaker 3: a sick man who immediately doesn't matter? And those are
Speaker 3: my yeah, my nipples, Makita, what do you rate this?
Speaker 4: I will give it.
Speaker 5: I think two nipples, and I think they are mostly
Speaker 5: rooted in nostalgia, just for like, and I started off
Speaker 5: my piece very nostalgically, like just writing about like, you know,
Speaker 5: it's two thousand and two, like you're getting home after school,
Speaker 5: sitting on an inflatable like me on chair, you know,
Speaker 5: eating tricks, yogurt or whatever, and like this is just
Speaker 5: like these movies are just so associated with that specific
Speaker 5: time in my life, simpler times arguably, so I think
Speaker 5: there's like, you know, just you miss.
Speaker 4: Kind of that feeling.
Speaker 5: But in terms of actual representation, it is pretty lacking,
Speaker 5: I think it. To me, it sort of falls into
Speaker 5: this category of like checklist representation.
Speaker 4: Right, It's like, Okay, we have some.
Speaker 5: Vaguely Latina characters, We're not really going to go beyond
Speaker 5: the surface level.
Speaker 4: We like have some glimpses into their whole.
Speaker 5: Life, but obviously, as we've discussed, it's not super substantive.
Speaker 5: There's you know, one character who has who speaks English
Speaker 5: as a second language, and there we go, like there's
Speaker 5: the movie guys, and I think it's sort of hoping,
Speaker 5: you know, as we've said, just hoping for a.
Speaker 4: Little bit more and then it never just arrives.
Speaker 5: I think it is definitely a product of the time,
Speaker 5: and unfortunately we just we meaning you know, latinas I'm
Speaker 5: multicultural myself, you know, that was something that I didn't
Speaker 5: see represented in media really at all, which is a
Speaker 5: conversation for another day. But like I think it was
Speaker 5: just like you're just so hungry for anything, so you
Speaker 5: you're happy with what you get, right, So all that
Speaker 5: being said, yeah, you're happy with the crumbs exactly, which
Speaker 5: is like so sad. But I know, the two solid stars,
Speaker 5: mostly for nostalgia's sake, I will give one to America Ferrera,
Speaker 5: because America Ferrera, and then I think I'll give one
Speaker 5: to actually Nancy de los Santos because you know, a
Speaker 5: fan of her work, especially Selena, and it's cool that
Speaker 5: she was involved in the project.
Speaker 2: I was surprised to learn that this movie was co
Speaker 2: written and directed both by Latine filmmakers.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and like already successful, Like we're not even catching
Speaker 3: them at the beginning of their career. Stand and Deliver
Speaker 3: came out fifteen years earlier. Yeah, and I mean it's
Speaker 3: cool and it feels like there is like a creative
Speaker 3: commitment because you wouldn't just you wouldn't simply make a
Speaker 3: d com if you were already very successful, unless you
Speaker 3: had a real love and investment in the material. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so I think it's amazing. Yeah, Maikita, thank you so
Speaker 3: much for joining us. This was so much fun.
Speaker 4: Thank you. This was great.
Speaker 3: Where can we find your work? Work? Can we find
Speaker 3: you on social media? How do we keep up with you?
Speaker 5: You can keep up with me primarily on Instagram these days.
Speaker 5: I'm at Rivas Raves. I am also.
Speaker 4: Contributing, as I mentioned Refinery twenty nine.
Speaker 5: So almos eater DC for my like Washington, DC folks,
Speaker 5: because I'm based in DC, so I cover the food
Speaker 5: scene here. But I you know, just I would say
Speaker 5: follow me on Instagram because that's usually where I try
Speaker 5: to share some of my work.
Speaker 3: Amazing. Yeah, thanks again for being here. Come back anytime.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 5: Yes, I'm happy to talk early two thousands movies literally
Speaker 5: any moment of any day.
Speaker 4: So let me know.
Speaker 3: Just say the word, maybe we'll hear.
Speaker 4: I can't wait.
Speaker 2: And then you can follow us on mostly Instagram these
Speaker 2: days as well at Bechdelcast, as well as subscribe to
Speaker 2: our pagon aka Matreon at patreon dot com slash bectyl Cast,
Speaker 2: where you can get two bonus episodes every single month,
Speaker 2: plus access to our back catalog of well over one
Speaker 2: hundred bonus episodes, all for five dollars a month.
Speaker 3: And you can get our merch over at teapublic dot
Speaker 3: com slash the Bechdel Cast get your weird Halloween merch.
Speaker 3: Oh beetlejuice declaring definitively, do you think beetlejuice comes? Wet
Speaker 3: scabs or dry scabs? One of our grossest ideas and
Speaker 3: we turned it into.
Speaker 2: Burdis And now is the time to buy it?
Speaker 3: Now the time to and now's where you stand in
Speaker 3: the Infinity war, that is what does beetlejuice come?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 3: Well, good note to end on.
Speaker 2: I should we all get together and learn a dance routine.
Speaker 2: I'm down twin regionals.
Speaker 4: Should we all learn as bartlets? Dance routine that caused
Speaker 4: her to cry?
Speaker 3: I was like, I only will do a dance routine
Speaker 3: if I am allowed to weep in gymnasium afterwards. That's
Speaker 3: where I'm most comfortable. So yes, I'm sorry, let's do it.
Speaker 2: Bye bye