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Speaker 1: On the Bechde cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and

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Speaker 1: best start changing it with the Bechdel cast.

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Speaker 2: Shimmy, shimmy, stop something, dance moves. I don't know, we're dancing.

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Speaker 3: Oh I could have taken the lead on that. I

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Speaker 3: was a dancer. Yeah, you were a dancer. Okay, so

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Speaker 3: you try see if you can do it anything better

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Speaker 3: than me.

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Speaker 4: Five six seven.

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Speaker 3: That's my favorite part of any dance movie is when

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Speaker 3: you get the five six seven eight hard and then

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Speaker 3: you just get like a woman in her early thirties

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Speaker 3: panting and screaming at teenagers. That is the good stuff. Hey,

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Speaker 3: and you're just like, I would die for this woman.

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Speaker 3: I don't know why, but I've been told that I should.

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Speaker 3: Oh God, this movie is about a lot of things,

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Speaker 3: but it is about the evil power that a dance

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Speaker 3: coach bolts over her dominion, her Jurassic Park dominions, her minions.

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Speaker 3: My famously rejected script for Universal Pictures Jurassic Park Dominions.

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Speaker 3: It would have been the crossover event of the century.

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Speaker 3: But instead they went with Colin Trevorell, Welcome to the

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Speaker 3: Bechdel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus, my.

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Speaker 2: Name is Caitlin Derante, and this is our show where

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Speaker 2: we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the

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Speaker 2: Bechdel Test simply as a jumping off point.

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Speaker 3: You're damn right, which is I'll tell you what it is?

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Speaker 3: Tell me what that is.

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Speaker 2: It's a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel,

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Speaker 2: sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace Test, originally appearing in her

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Speaker 2: comic Decks to Watch Out For in the mid eighties

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Speaker 2: as a bit of a one off goof that also

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Speaker 2: kind of examines how there was so little representation of

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Speaker 2: queer women in the movies at the time. Absolutely something

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Speaker 2: I would like to mention more often as we discussed

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Speaker 2: the Bechtel Test. But anyway, there is deep lore for

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Speaker 2: the Bechtel Test.

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Speaker 3: Such deep lore.

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Speaker 4: Yes.

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Speaker 2: In any case, it is the medium metric that, again

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Speaker 2: we use as a springboard. Our version of it is

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Speaker 2: two characters of a marginalized gender with names must speak

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Speaker 2: to each other, and their conversation has to be about

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Speaker 2: something other than a man. Ideally it's a substantial conversation

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Speaker 2: and not just a nice day we're having, Sally. Yes,

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Speaker 2: it is Betty.

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Speaker 3: Or some of our worst passes, which is like shut

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Speaker 3: the hell up. Okay, yeah, which is a classic woman dynamic. Yes,

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Speaker 3: so quickly, right off the top. Today we are covering

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Speaker 3: the classic Disney Channel original movie. And if you're a

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Speaker 3: listener of this show, you have statistically been harassing us

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Speaker 3: about covering one Disney Channel original movie or another for

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Speaker 3: the better part of ten years. Yes, so today we

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Speaker 3: are covering one of the greats. We are covering Got

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Speaker 3: to Kick It Up two thousand and two. But just

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Speaker 3: so you know, the way that we're structuring our episode

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Speaker 3: today because of guest availability, is that it will be

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Speaker 3: Kitlin and myself for the recap portion, and then we're

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Speaker 3: going to bring in an incredible guest, Mikita Revas for

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Speaker 3: our discussion. So if you're like, is there a guest, yes, essentially, patience, patience, Yes,

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Speaker 3: But yes, today we're covering Got to Kick It Up.

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Speaker 3: And boy, oh boy, Caitlin, Yes, what is your history,

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Speaker 3: if any, with the Disney Channel original movie Gotta Kick

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Speaker 3: It Up.

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Speaker 2: I have no history with it, As with every other

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Speaker 2: D com. I've never seen it right until I've had

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Speaker 2: to watch it for this show.

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Speaker 3: Do you ever wonder who you would be if you do?

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Speaker 3: Do you think you'd be different? I think I would.

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Speaker 3: I think like because in a small way, but in

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Speaker 3: a way not substantial.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it would have informed my taste very

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Speaker 2: differently than it already is, because I did watch some

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Speaker 2: like almost decom coded movies, but one with just like

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Speaker 2: higher budgets. But the one that comes to mind would

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Speaker 2: be like Lindsay Lohan Parent Trap, which I saw on

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Speaker 2: repeat as a kid. But also as a kid, I

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Speaker 2: was watching Titanic every day, so you know, I mean.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's no lack of the general vibe in your life.

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Speaker 3: I feel like, mainly my life would be different because

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Speaker 3: I would not wear so many ugly clothes and be like,

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Speaker 3: this is awesome, but unfortunately there was one of these

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Speaker 3: damn things on every single week and they would be

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Speaker 3: wearing the weirdest stuff, and you would. I mean, I

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Speaker 3: feel like it's the xenonification of wow, yeah, thank you

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Speaker 3: so much of women of a certain and also, let's

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Speaker 3: like take the gender specificity out of it. We're all

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Speaker 3: impacted by the brutal choices made by the various costume

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Speaker 3: departments in.

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Speaker 2: These Indeed, so all that to say, I had never

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Speaker 2: seen this movie. I had no history with it, but

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Speaker 2: I'm excited to discuss Jamie, what is your relationship with

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Speaker 2: Gotta Kick It Up? Exclamation point?

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Speaker 3: I love this movie. I saw it the day it

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Speaker 3: aired on television. Wow. Sorry, I was in elementary school

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Speaker 3: when this came out. I remember watching it with my

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Speaker 3: cousins as as I feel like my answer for every

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Speaker 3: d com because there's only so many ways to get

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Speaker 3: kids to shut up, and this was one of them.

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Speaker 3: At this time, my cousins and they were always I

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Speaker 3: remember it like, because we all lived within a mile

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Speaker 3: of each other. My mom ran the daycare at my house.

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Speaker 3: We were together a lot. And then these would air

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Speaker 3: on Friday nights. And so first of all, even if

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Speaker 3: you weren't excited about the movie, it was a sleepover opportunity,

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Speaker 3: and so you had to spend as much time with

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Speaker 3: your girl as as possible. And so this was an

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Speaker 3: opportunity and it felt like to me, And I wonder

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Speaker 3: how my cousins feel about this, I will ask them

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Speaker 3: that it felt to me that if the d com

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Speaker 3: was about girls, higher likelihood that the sleepover would would

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Speaker 3: be approved by the powers that be, And if you're

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Speaker 3: getting kind of like a Kyle Massey original, if you're

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Speaker 3: getting like a Ricky Solman movie, you wouldn't understand. He

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Speaker 3: played Raven Simone's little brother Corey on that so Raven.

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Speaker 3: He later started the spinoff, Corey in the House, in

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Speaker 3: which inexplicably he moved to the White House. I didn't

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Speaker 3: watch that one, okay, because it was about both the

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Speaker 3: White House and not the Smart House. Not the Smart House,

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Speaker 3: which is my white House. No, well, anyways, they're all

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Speaker 3: a part of the same expanded universe. But anyways, we

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Speaker 3: watched all of these for whatever seven or eight years

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Speaker 3: until it was suddenly uncool to do so gotta kick

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Speaker 3: it up. Though firmly remember watching it, remember watching it

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Speaker 3: with my cousins, and we loved girls and dancing, and

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Speaker 3: so this was an event. And at the time, I don't,

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Speaker 3: I mean, as I rewatched it, I remembered, I feel

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Speaker 3: like with a lot of childhood movies, I remember basically

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Speaker 3: nothing that happened in this movie. I remembered girls, I

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Speaker 3: remember dancing, and I think because of how history played out,

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Speaker 3: I remembered America Ferrara, Yes, of course, and so when

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Speaker 3: I went to revisit this movie, what I thought this

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Speaker 3: movie was was a movie about a group of teen

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Speaker 3: dancers starring America Ferrera who do cool dances and win

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Speaker 3: the contest. It is, however, a movie in which America

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Speaker 3: Ferrera barely has a character, where a white woman who

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Speaker 3: played Bell on Broadway and did the voice for Megara

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Speaker 3: and Hercules plays a white savior coach who teaches a

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Speaker 3: group of teen girls nothing. That's sort of what happened.

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Speaker 2: Because it's not as though she's inspiring them to start dancing.

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Speaker 2: They're already all dancers.

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Speaker 3: And at many points in this movie they're dancing in

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Speaker 3: spite of her. And so I found it interesting to

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Speaker 3: be like, oh, this movie is actually about a central

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Speaker 3: white character I didn't even remember who I really do like,

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Speaker 3: upon further reflection, she's certainly and I feel like the

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Speaker 3: nature of these movies, and by that I mean teacher student,

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Speaker 3: kind of sappy movies. I'm gonna take the white savior

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Speaker 3: element out for a moment. But it is like, well,

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Speaker 3: sure they learned from me, but I learned from them too.

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Speaker 3: But even if you put this movie up to a microscope.

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Speaker 3: I don't think that they really learned anything from her. No, well,

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Speaker 3: that is correct. Anyways, she's able to overcome her very

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Speaker 3: boring problems related to not finishing her freshman year at Juilliard.

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Speaker 3: I'm like crime a fucking river. Anyways, in my memory,

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Speaker 3: this movie was a great cinematic achievement. In reality, it

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Speaker 3: is a very interesting, somewhat dated, but I think valuable

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Speaker 3: to talk about cinematic achievement.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, I can't argue with that. Yeah, so

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Speaker 2: shall we talk about it further with the recap.

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Speaker 3: Let's recap, baby, But first.

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Speaker 2: Let's take a quick little break.

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Speaker 3: And we're back, and we're back.

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Speaker 2: Okay, here's the recap for Gotta Kick it Up exclamation

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Speaker 2: point and you gotta, and you simply gotta.

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Speaker 3: If there's one thing you gotta do, it's kick it up.

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Speaker 3: Did you know the original title to this movie was

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Speaker 3: kick it Up exclamation point? And then it turns out

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Speaker 3: that was something and they're like, hmm, how do we

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Speaker 3: punch it up? Gotta? I do think that that choice

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Speaker 3: alone illustrates the immediacy with which these movies are made,

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Speaker 3: where they're like I don't know it airs in ten minutes.

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Speaker 3: What are you gonna call it? You're like, you gotta

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Speaker 3: kick it up, you gotta kick it up, and so

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Speaker 3: it was. I did not.

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Speaker 2: I was like, is this like a dance expression the

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Speaker 2: way that like, oh, you know what, First of all,

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Speaker 2: it's not.

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Speaker 3: First of all, as a dancer, it isn't.

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Speaker 2: Also, when I went on to urban dictionary dot com

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Speaker 2: to confirm to.

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Speaker 3: Talk about it, you could just text me my god.

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Speaker 2: Well, I was like, Okay, is kick it up a

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Speaker 2: dance expression?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 2: And it's not. And when you look up kick it

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Speaker 2: up on Urban Dictionary, the first entry is when your

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Speaker 2: friends want you to smoke a big ass joint with them?

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Speaker 3: Why in the twenty three which you can assult this.

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Speaker 2: Website, And then the response is like, oh yeah, let's

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Speaker 2: kick it up tonight, and that means to smoke a

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Speaker 2: joint of marijuana.

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Speaker 3: Okay, first of all, if you're a listener, please let

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Speaker 3: us know if you've ever heard that in your fucking life.

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Speaker 3: It's like, that reminds me of my mom. Still not

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Speaker 3: fully understanding the implications of the phrase hook up. Oh

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Speaker 3: in a way that I think I maybe have talked

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Speaker 3: about it in the show before it, but it always

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Speaker 3: makes me laugh where she's like, hey, I have to

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Speaker 3: go hook up with your uncle, You're just like you

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Speaker 3: don't she means meet up, but she says it like

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Speaker 3: she's gonna have sex with growth her brother in law.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: And so in that way, it's language is amazing and

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Speaker 3: it can sound like anything. But in terms of kick

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Speaker 3: it up, as far as I know, unless it's a

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Speaker 3: dance genre, I am not trained in. No, it's not

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Speaker 3: an expression. And not to brag, but I was the

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Speaker 3: captain of my high school dance team, and so if

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Speaker 3: there was any kicking of it up, I think I

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Speaker 3: would have known something about it. That's true, But I

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Speaker 3: believe colloquially within the community of high school dancers the

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Speaker 3: phrase was kick it was merely kick got it it

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Speaker 3: up was implied within the.

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Speaker 2: Action of course, now you're gonna kick it down. Title

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Speaker 2: reminded me that so many movies that center female athletics,

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Speaker 2: uh huh have it in the title. Remember we did

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Speaker 2: a whole Matreon theme based on it whip it, stick

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Speaker 2: it it, bring it.

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Speaker 3: On, and bring it on. Also, I would say, almost

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Speaker 3: definitively that gotta kick it up in part got a

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Speaker 3: green light off of the success of Bring It On.

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Speaker 2: I would say yes, probably.

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Speaker 3: As I feel is the tendency for like, if there's

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Speaker 3: a very successful movie that comes out theatrically, about a

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Speaker 3: year or so later, there'll be sort of a version

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Speaker 3: of it that comes out on the Disney Channel. It's

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Speaker 3: just how society works, and you can like that or

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Speaker 3: not sure. Sure, sure, but anyways, Okay, what's this movie about?

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you what it is? It wow, Because we

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Speaker 2: also were pondering, what does it ever refer to in

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Speaker 2: the title of these movies, We're not quite sure.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what are they kicking up there? Feet? I meant

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Speaker 3: like spiritually? Oh right, I'm a dancer, Caitlyn, I know

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Speaker 3: what they're kicking. Yes, I forgot. Oh my god, you're

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Speaker 3: starting to piss me off. And we're going to post

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Speaker 3: a picture of my high school dance team because I'm

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Speaker 3: starting to get it's fine.

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Speaker 2: All right, Well, okay, one last tangent before we Oh no,

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Speaker 2: I haven't that. Every time I learned about this movie

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Speaker 2: before seeing it or knowing what it was about, I assumed,

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Speaker 2: based on the verb in the title kick kick, that

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Speaker 2: it would be about soccer. And so I was like, Woa,

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Speaker 2: hoho soccer movie as a also captain of my high.

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Speaker 3: School soccer team. Both leaders, captain, we're leaders, Oh captain,

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Speaker 3: my captain, which speaks to okay. Before we got a mic,

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Speaker 3: we were talking about wow. We really communicate in the

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Speaker 3: love language of subgenres. We were talking about how this

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Speaker 3: movie is directed by the same director, Ramon Menandez who

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Speaker 3: directed Stand and Deliver, which has, as You're about to hear,

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Speaker 3: a similar bit different overarching story is like a teacher

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Speaker 3: inspires a group of youths to aspire to greatness, and

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Speaker 3: that is a subgenre I like to think of as

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Speaker 3: substitute teacher movies. And not to really brag, because not

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Speaker 3: only was I a high school dance captain, I also

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Speaker 3: would wow later be a substitute teacher, which is sort

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Speaker 3: of a direct one to two if the truth is

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Speaker 3: to be said. And my career as a subsidute teacher

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Speaker 3: was four months in Watertown, Massachusetts. Brave of me to say,

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Speaker 3: but I did not know what to do when I

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Speaker 3: was substitute teaching Jim. I would make the kids run

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Speaker 3: in a circle and if they were good, I would

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Speaker 3: play let it Go from Frozen, and that was one lesson.

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Speaker 3: That's an example of one of my lesson plans. My

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Speaker 3: other lesson plan was movies, and I would pull from

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Speaker 3: the same substitute teacher movies that I would watch, which

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Speaker 3: included Stand and Deliver, which included Remember the Titans. I

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Speaker 3: think most significantly, Remember the Titans to me is my

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Speaker 3: seminal substitute teacher movie. What else were mister Holland Opus

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Speaker 3: anytime a teacher is doing some shit that they shouldn't

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Speaker 3: be doing. Dead Poets Society, but that's more of like

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Speaker 3: a high school and or you can't show that to

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Speaker 3: second graders. Remember the Titans, turn it on for fucking anybody.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 2: I would have assumed it would have been more appropriate

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Speaker 2: for older kids.

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Speaker 3: But not if you ask the second graders I taught,

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Speaker 3: and you can rewatch it. Let me know if that

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Speaker 3: was bad of me to do, but I didn't. Anyways,

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Speaker 3: this I feel like, even though it didn't become because

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Speaker 3: I think it was like a TV movie, But I

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Speaker 3: think that this movie falls squarely into like substitute teacher

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Speaker 3: movie canon. Why were we talking about this.

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Speaker 2: Because I said, oh, Captain, my captain, Oh Dead Poet Society? Okay, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: Well the movie about what is it? I'll tell we'll

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Speaker 2: figure out what it is later, Yes, yes, yes, yes, okay.

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Speaker 2: So we open on the first day of school at

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Speaker 2: Marshall Middle School in southern California. I'm guessing LA Area,

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Speaker 2: but it doesn't really specify.

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Speaker 3: We'll talk about this in the discussion. But the movie

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Speaker 3: is based on experiences that one of the writers had

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Speaker 3: in the LA area, so I think it's implied.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And before classes start for the day, when everyone

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Speaker 2: is just sort of lounging around outside, two students, Daisy

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Speaker 2: played by Camille Guatti and Yolanda that's America Ferira, start dancing.

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Speaker 2: You might even say they are kicking it up. And

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Speaker 2: then another girl, as Marelda, played by Sabrina Wiener, wants

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Speaker 2: to dance with them, but Daisy has a bit of

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Speaker 2: an attitude and she won't let as Marelda dance.

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Speaker 3: Don't worry, that will not really impact the plot moving forward.

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Speaker 3: It's just something that happens a couple of times.

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Speaker 2: It's just a way to introduce the characters.

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Speaker 3: It's just a way to say some shit.

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Speaker 2: Yes, then we meet Miss Bartlett played by Susan Egan.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Susan Egan is Bell on Broadway. Just keep that

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Speaker 3: in mind, because she's just like associated with so many

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Speaker 3: famous voice roles that it's like really hard to ignore.

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Speaker 2: She is the new biology teacher at the school.

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Speaker 3: Don't worry, she's not qualified for the job.

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Speaker 2: She does not have a background in biology or really

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Speaker 2: science of any kind.

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Speaker 3: Which is substitute teacher coded. Yes, except she's a permanent teacher.

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Speaker 3: She lives in a house. I was like, this is

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Speaker 3: a fantasy world anyways.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Principal Zavala played by Miguel Sandeval, who I recognize

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Speaker 2: from the beginning of a Park. Fun little fact about me.

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Speaker 3: Oh, he's kind of a legendary character actor. He's been

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Speaker 3: in so much stuff. Indeed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So the principal goes up to Miss Bartlett and

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Speaker 2: he's like, good luck. These students can be pretty intimidating,

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Speaker 2: and they're like, what.

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Speaker 3: Do you mean by that?

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Speaker 2: Well, right, And I think what he means is that

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Speaker 2: Miss Bartlett is a waspy, blonde, white woman and the

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Speaker 2: majority of the students at this school are LATINX and

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Speaker 2: the students in Miss Bartlett's class do not take her seriously.

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Speaker 2: And Daisy even gets up and starts dancing like on

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Speaker 2: her desk.

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Speaker 3: I don't appreciate that this is implied to be a

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Speaker 3: racial comment when it is simply how teenagers treat new teachers. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: you're just like, yeah, she's a joke because she's an

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Speaker 3: adult and she's new here. That's just how that works,

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Speaker 3: is indeed.

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Speaker 2: And then as this kind of chaos is unraveling, Principles

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Speaker 2: of Alla walks in sees the disruption and gives Daisy

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Speaker 2: a month of detention. Now, speaking of dancing or kicking

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Speaker 2: it up, as it's known across all cultures, Yolanda is

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Speaker 2: talking to her friend Alyssa played by Joanna Flores about

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Speaker 2: the school's dance team. The previous dance coach had retired,

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Speaker 2: so now it looks like there's not going to be

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Speaker 2: a dance team this year. That is until as Morelda

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Speaker 2: discovers that miss Bartlett went to Juilliard, So she asks

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Speaker 2: the principal to try to recruit miss Bartlett to be

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Speaker 2: the new dance coach, and Miss Bartlett reluctantly agrees, and

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Speaker 2: tryouts are coming up, and Daisy negotiates with principals of Alla,

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Speaker 2: who join the dance team instead of serving her detention

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Speaker 2: time at.

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Speaker 3: The suggestion of her boyfriend of ambiguous age named Chewie,

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Speaker 3: who said that he had done the same thing previously.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: So Daisy, Jolie, Esmerelda Alissa all try out for the team,

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Speaker 2: as well as another girl named Mary Soul. She's played

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Speaker 2: by Selima Rodriguez, and they, along with a handful of

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Speaker 2: other girls who will never speak and we will never

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Speaker 2: actually meet, but that's just how movies work. They all

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Speaker 2: make the team. Miss Bartlett is very like, no nonsense,

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Speaker 2: and she expects the girls to be as dedicated to

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Speaker 2: the team as she is. And they start to get

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Speaker 2: into shape and they start to put choreography together and

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Speaker 2: then it's time for their first competition at Rolling Hills

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Speaker 2: Middle School. But the team's performance is pretty sloppy, and

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Speaker 2: Daisy gets so pissed about it that she storms off

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Speaker 2: stage and quits the team, and the team in general

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Speaker 2: doesn't have a lot of faith in Miss Bartlett. But

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Speaker 2: then Daisy sees Miss Bartlett dancing in the gym by herself.

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Speaker 3: Okay, one of the most iconic scenes in the movie

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Speaker 3: because it sucks. Yeah, like it is heavily implied, And

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Speaker 3: this we'll talk about in our discussion as well, but

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Speaker 3: it's like very implied that it's like, oh, Miss Bartlett's

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Speaker 3: relationship to dance is really complicated, and you're sort of like, okay,

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Speaker 3: but yeah. Then the first glimpse you get of why

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Speaker 3: that may be, and it also is repeatedly referenced in

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Speaker 3: a way that I don't think she's really held a

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Speaker 3: task for in the scope of the movie, is that

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Speaker 3: she's projecting her own issues onto the team and intentionally

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Speaker 3: holding them back because of issues that she hasn't resolved

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Speaker 3: in regards to her relationship to dance. Spoiler alert, The

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Speaker 3: reveal is very boring, but this is the first scene

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Speaker 3: where we see like her dancing like no one's watching,

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Speaker 3: and for some reason, and I think this is also

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Speaker 3: very just like in the way that these movies are

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Speaker 3: written to be pretty soapy, seeing Miss Bartlett dance like

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Speaker 3: no one's watching infuriates Daisy. She says, how dare you

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Speaker 3: dances that no one's watching when we could have been

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Speaker 3: watching I love drama.

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Speaker 2: Because it turns out that Miss Bartlett has more moves

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Speaker 2: than the team realized, and it seems like she's been

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Speaker 2: holding back. So Miss Bartlett then convinces Daisy to rejoin

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Speaker 2: the team and they all get to work on some

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Speaker 2: more serious choreography, and then there's an upcoming competition at

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Speaker 2: Hamilton Middle School, but Miss Bartlett won't let them compete

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Speaker 2: at it because she thinks they still have a lot

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Speaker 2: more work to do. She wants them to be the

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Speaker 2: absolute best because a part of her whole thing in

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Speaker 2: her arc is that, like she put too much pressure

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Speaker 2: on herself to be perfect, and she thinks that being

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Speaker 2: the best is the most important thing. Now, the girls

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Speaker 2: feel differently, and they decide to enter the competition without

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Speaker 2: Miss Bartlett knowing. So the team spruces up their uniforms

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Speaker 2: and heads to Hamilton. Daisy's boyfriend Chui and his friends

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Speaker 2: give them a.

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Speaker 3: Ride because they're very supportive for a chunk of.

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Speaker 2: The movie, right until they're suddenly not for no reason,

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Speaker 2: but the team they're not sure if they can do this,

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Speaker 2: but then.

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Speaker 3: And they're like, can we kick it up?

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Speaker 2: We gotta, we gotta, we gotta, And then Marisola is like, well,

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Speaker 2: my grandma always says see, which means yes we can,

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Speaker 2: which becomes the team's motto.

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Speaker 3: So just a quick they briefly contextualize it within the

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Speaker 3: movie but I also want to contextualize it within the episode.

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Speaker 3: So the phrase cipu it's a historical phrase. It was

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Speaker 3: very intentionally put into the movie by It's Safe as

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Speaker 3: a primary writer, Nancy Della Santos, who also wrote Selena,

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Speaker 3: amongst many other movies. So she contextualizes it in an

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Speaker 3: interview that she did a couple of years ago with

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Speaker 3: a website called Millennialhallmarker dot com, she says, I am

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Speaker 3: extremely proud of getting csipude into the script and onto

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Speaker 3: the television screen, but it's not a dance phrase, or

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Speaker 3: wasn't at the time. Ccipuide is Spanish for yes you can,

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Speaker 3: Yes it is possible, and it is the motto of

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Speaker 3: the United farm Workers Union, co founded by union activists

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Speaker 3: Cesar Chavez and Dolores Squerta. The phrase is credited to

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Speaker 3: Miss Huerta in support of Caesar's hunger strike the union's creation.

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Speaker 3: I love the phrase and wanted the young dance team

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Speaker 3: to have words that reflected their strength and commitment to

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Speaker 3: their goal. And it was great to hear these words

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Speaker 3: spoken on television. It always makes me smile. I really

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Speaker 3: loved that she got to say that this was for

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Speaker 3: the fifteenth anniversary of the movie, so twenty seventeen. But that, yeah,

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Speaker 3: this is in a movie that, as you'll hear in

433
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,440
Speaker 3: our discussion, certainly has plenty to criticize about a lack

434
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 3: of cultural specificity the phrase and also having it contextualized

435
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 3: as something that was important to this character's grandma does

436
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:41,159
Speaker 3: sort of give it a cultural specificity. And I don't know, honestly, like,

437
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 3: I don't know if I ever would have learned this

438
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 3: phrase if it weren't for this movie. Nice, thanks for sharing.

439
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 2: Okay, wow, I said, bravely, Yeah it.

440
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 3: Thanks, thank you.

441
00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 2: Anyways, anyways, back to the cap no I kid, But

442
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 2: also here's the rest of the recap.

443
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,199
Speaker 3: Okay, fine, So.

444
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,400
Speaker 2: The team competes at Hamilton Middle School and they get

445
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 2: third place. And while they're there, a woman named Linell Elliott,

446
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 2: who's the dean at a prestigious performing arts high school,

447
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 2: approaches Daisy and wants her to apply to the school,

448
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 2: and Daisy is hopeful, but she's also concerned about tuition costs.

449
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,440
Speaker 3: And things like that. I really love again it's like

450
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 3: another teen movie thing, but the name of the dance

451
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 3: scout is a woman named Linell Elliott played by vonn

452
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 3: Farrow and I just love when a character is only

453
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 3: referred to by their full name for essentibly no reason

454
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,239
Speaker 3: to just like intimate their grandeur. And so they never

455
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:59,360
Speaker 3: call her Linell. They never call her miss Elliott. Every

456
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,360
Speaker 3: single time, it's Lynelle Elliot's gonna be there, and it's

457
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 3: like they're saying Barbara streisand but it's just like a

458
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 3: lady in the movie, and she's always wearing a pantsuit.

459
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 3: She's kind of like our resident girl boss of the movie,

460
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 3: and she's great, and she's sort of like, you know,

461
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 3: she's like, hey, you know, we can get you a

462
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 3: full scholarship, and you're like, wow, that never happens. Lenelle

463
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 3: Elliott as far as we know an icon we're respecting

464
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:30,360
Speaker 3: ally Yeah, yeah, true, it's Lenell Elliott for crying out loud.

465
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 2: Yeah famously. Okay, So the girls return from the competition.

466
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 2: Their parents are really upset for just sort of like

467
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 2: disappearing for a few hours. Miss Bartlett finds out about it,

468
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 2: and she's also upset that they betrayed her trust. But

469
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 2: Daisy is like, well, it feels like you don't believe

470
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 2: in us, and Miss Bartlett is like, actually, it's that

471
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 2: I don't believe in myself and I've put too much

472
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 2: pressure on myself to be perfect. And then so after

473
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 2: this heart to heart, everyone feels ready to keep competing,

474
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 2: so the team puts together another routine they gear up

475
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 2: for regionals. There's some drama along the way, such as

476
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 2: Daisy's boyfriend, Chewey can't handle that she's spending so much

477
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 2: time dancing, so he breaks.

478
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 4: Up with her.

479
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 3: Ugh, we'll talk about that. Yeah, the school.

480
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 2: Doesn't have the budget to pay for their trip to regionals.

481
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,239
Speaker 2: And then also miss Bartlett was offered a job at

482
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 2: another dot com company or whatever they keep calling it.

483
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 2: And the team finds out about this job offer and

484
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 2: they feel betrayed, but Miss Bartlett is like, no, I

485
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 2: turned it down. I'm still your dance coach. And then

486
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 2: they put on a car wash slash food festival thing

487
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 2: to raise funds for the trip to regionals. And then

488
00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 2: also Chewy comes around and apologizes for being an ass.

489
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 2: And then it's the day of the regional competition. The

490
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 2: team is there with their new uniforms. Daisy almost chokes

491
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 2: because Linnell Elliott is there to evaluate her dancing, but

492
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 2: she does a good job the team puts on a

493
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 2: great performance and they get second place.

494
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: Yay.

495
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 3: The end, Yes, I always forget because it's like, it

496
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 3: does feel like such an unconventional choice to be like,

497
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 3: let's end at the penultimate competition and we'll just sort

498
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 3: of tell you in a slide how they did. Yeah,

499
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 3: we'll talk about this in a second. But like, because

500
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 3: this is semi based on real experience, I was like,

501
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 3: why couldn't they just win first place?

502
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 5: Why?

503
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, embellish those details, you know, you gotta kick it up.

504
00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 3: The plot that is wow. And with that, let's take

505
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 3: a break and come back with a full discussion with

506
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 3: our wonderful guest.

507
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 2: All right, we are pleased to be joined by our

508
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 2: special guest. She's a freelance journalist. She covers culture and style.

509
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 2: It's Mikita Revas. Hello, Hello, Hi, welcome.

510
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 3: Welcome, thank you, thank you for having me of course so.

511
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 2: Much for being here. So we approached you because you

512
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 2: had written a really great piece in Refinery twenty nine

513
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 2: about the movie, and so we're just curious basically what

514
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 2: your relationship with this movie is kind of preliminary thoughts

515
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 2: and then we'll get further into it.

516
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, because we also want to talk about how I mean,

517
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 3: your piece is about how your feelings about it just

518
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 3: changed over time.

519
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 4: Yeah. What's interesting is I hadn't really thought about this

520
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 4: movie in probably twenty years, and.

521
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 5: I have been contributing at Refinery twenty nine s almost

522
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 5: for a while. And my editor was like, Hey, this

523
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 5: anniversary is coming up for this movie, which you know

524
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 5: was pretty influential for a lot of young Latinas growing up,

525
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 5: you know, fifteen twenty years ago, So would you want

526
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 5: to rewatch.

527
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 4: It and just sort of like let me know your thoughts,

528
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 4: and so I had.

529
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 5: Honestly, I kind of went into it a blank slate,

530
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 5: Like I think I last saw it on the Disney

531
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 5: Channel when I was maybe eleven twelve years old.

532
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 4: Give or take.

533
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 5: So I couldn't really recall much other than like your

534
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 5: typical group of like rebellious, troubled kids who are essentially

535
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 5: kind of like adopted by this like white savior, you know,

536
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 5: sort of character. And then upon rewatch, I was like, oh, wow,

537
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 5: like some of this has not aged very well. So

538
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 5: it was sort of a journey, but there were still

539
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 5: parts of it that did feel heartwarming. So it was

540
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 5: a little like a mix of both I would say

541
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 5: for sure.

542
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 2: Sure, I mean there's something to be said for I mean,

543
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 2: LATINX representation in like major Hollywood movies is still extremely low,

544
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 2: and so for this dcom too, I mean you could

545
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 2: are I was gonna say for it to center this

546
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 2: like Team of Latina.

547
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you didn't argue that it's like the Lady

548
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 3: centers first of all, so distracting that it's like the

549
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 3: lady who voiced Bell because once I learned that, I

550
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 3: couldn't unhear the voice the Hi. Yeah. But it's like

551
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 3: also about her like flopping at Juilliard, and you're like, well,

552
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 3: I don't care about her flopping at Julliard.

553
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 5: I just don't, right, Yeah, And I think there was

554
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 5: It's like another part where she talks about like growing up,

555
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 5: her parents like wanted her to work really hard. She

556
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 5: was just saying like I felt like I had to

557
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 5: be the best or like good was never good enough,

558
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 5: And essentially it felt like her sob story was like

559
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 5: her parents wanted her to work too hard and just

560
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 5: like I mean, I'm not trying to minimize that by

561
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:27,800
Speaker 5: any means, but it just was sort of like I

562
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 5: don't know if this like warrants you you know, like

563
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,800
Speaker 5: kind of diverting away from you know, the other Latina

564
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 5: characters in the movie. It kind of felt like there

565
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 5: were parts where her backstory probably could have been compressed

566
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 5: a little bit more right.

567
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 3: And one thing that really stuck with me about your

568
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:48,240
Speaker 3: piece was how you closed it, which is by saying

569
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 3: why couldn't Miss Bartlett been Latina? Like why? And I

570
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 3: had the same feeling as I was rewatching it where

571
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 3: I don't know, I found it very interesting that this

572
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 3: movie was directed by this director as Stand and Deliver,

573
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 3: because you're like, oh, this guy's bread and butter is

574
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 3: teachers bringing students together, but having I mean, obviously the

575
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 3: optics of the teacher being white and clearly from a

576
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 3: more privileged background just like totally undercuts a lot of

577
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 3: elements of the story. And yeah, your suggestion was like, yeah,

578
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 3: why did they not do that?

579
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 4: I don't know, questions that need answers.

580
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 3: And we don't have them.

581
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:33,320
Speaker 2: Although I guess what informs this choice, yeah, justifies it,

582
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,919
Speaker 2: but informs it at the very least is a little

583
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 2: bit of context, which is so the story is based

584
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 2: on the experience of Megan Cole, who is one of

585
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 2: the I guess creative minds behind this movie. She has

586
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,800
Speaker 2: like a story by credit, and she's also a co producer.

587
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 3: She was like a producer at Disney at the time,

588
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 3: so she was like the one to pitch the story right.

589
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 2: And so I'll just quote an article or a review

590
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 2: from the La Times entitled life inspires story with some

591
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 2: kick so quote. Prior to joining the Walt Disney Company,

592
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 2: Cole was involved with the nonprofit Teach for America program

593
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:23,800
Speaker 2: that places instructors in under resourced schools across the country. Cole,

594
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:28,320
Speaker 2: who has a master's degree in education from Harvard University,

595
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,800
Speaker 2: me vibes with my master's degree in screenwriting from Boston University,

596
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 2: something that I'm.

597
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 3: Okay, You're like, it's in Boston, basically Harvard Harvard. Okay,

598
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:41,720
Speaker 3: So back to the quote.

599
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 2: So, Cole, who has a master's degree in education, landed

600
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:50,280
Speaker 2: at Nimit's Middle School in Huntington Park, where she started

601
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 2: the campus's first competitive dance program. Although Got to Kick

602
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 2: It Up was quote unquote inspired by her experiences at Nimt's.

603
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 2: The the movie is said at a fictitious Marshall Middle School.

604
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 2: And then I'll kind of end the quote because it

605
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 2: sort of just recaps the movie, but it puts into

606
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 2: perspective why the movie focuses so much on this right,

607
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 2: like white woman.

608
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 3: Even so, though like, with all due respect to Megan,

609
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 3: she is she upped herself to having gone to Juilliard,

610
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 3: which is pretty significant creative license because from what I

611
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:28,879
Speaker 3: could see, she was on her high school dance team.

612
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, if Megan went to Juilliard, so did

613
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 3: I and I didn't. But I feel like that even that,

614
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 3: like taking that creative license pretty clearly illustrates that there

615
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 3: are elements of the story that were not adapted one

616
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 3: to one, and so keeping the teacher as a more privileged,

617
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 3: college educated white woman was a very changeable thing, and

618
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 3: it feels pointed that they did not view that particular

619
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 3: element of the story as changeable.

620
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, I definitely agree with that.

621
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 3: So my understanding of I just wanted to, yeah, go

622
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 3: a little more into the context of this, where like

623
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:11,959
Speaker 3: these movie of the week, Like tracking production for movies

624
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 3: of the week is so difficult because I'm like, oh, yeah,

625
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 3: this movie was made in Canada for twelve dollars in

626
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 3: two weeks.

627
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's hard to trace the history, right, that's.

628
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 3: Just how they're made. But my understanding is that Megan

629
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 3: Cole pitched the story loosely based on her own experiences,

630
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,800
Speaker 3: and then they hired another screenwriter who had written the

631
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 3: Selena movie a couple of years before, Nancy Delo Santos,

632
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 3: who wrote the main teleplay along with two sort of

633
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 3: Disney white guys stalwarts, and that the director Ramon Menendez

634
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 3: also helped with the stories. It was a very like

635
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 3: collaborative effort. But from what I understood, I mean, there

636
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 3: was an interview with Nancy Della Santos a couple of

637
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 3: years ago that makes it seem like she was It

638
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 3: was mainly a collaboration between herself and Megan Cole, where

639
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:13,879
Speaker 3: Nancy went to the middle school where Megan Cole had taught,

640
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 3: She interviewed the former dancers that she'd worked with, and

641
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 3: tried to write a story that revolved around Latina's based

642
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 3: on women that she spoke to, which I think is

643
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 3: great and makes it even more frustrating that it's like

644
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:33,879
Speaker 3: the whole Megan Cole needing to be Megan Cole within

645
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:35,720
Speaker 3: the story is such a sticking point.

646
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was a little surprised to hear about Nancy's involvement,

647
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 5: and you would think that her involvement would hopefully had

648
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:48,280
Speaker 5: had an influence on maybe steering the story in another direction.

649
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:50,760
Speaker 5: But at the end of the day, I guess.

650
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 4: Not so much.

651
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 3: Every time there's a situation like that, I'm like, I

652
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 3: can't imagine how much pushback you would get from a

653
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 3: place like like I'm sure that she wanted to include

654
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 3: less garbage than ends up in the movie. Yeah, or

655
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 3: what helps her? She It was a lovely interview. We

656
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:13,240
Speaker 3: can link it in the description. She's talked specifically about

657
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:17,720
Speaker 3: being proud of getting the cisabdde phrase into the movie

658
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 3: and including some you know, actual cultural history and explaining

659
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 3: what it is, which again was just rare in these

660
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 3: Disney movies of the week. It would usually be like

661
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:33,800
Speaker 3: a dog learns to bake or whatever. Right, yeah, a

662
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 3: house is smart? What about house is smart? Okay, that's

663
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 3: a good one though, so watch your mask?

664
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 4: Oh my god, good time.

665
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 2: You would also think that with Nancy's involvement, the Latina

666
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 2: characters would have been a little bit more amplified as

667
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 2: far as their characterization and their interior lives, their backstories,

668
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 2: and we get a little bit of that for some

669
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 2: of the character but I feel like some of the

670
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 2: characterization was just a little undercooked, especially with like and

671
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 2: maybe it's just because America Ferreira is such a star, yeah, now,

672
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 2: and for her to like we never meet her family,

673
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 2: we never see her at home.

674
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 3: The only thing we know is that she's bad at math,

675
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 3: and you're like, Okay, well that's relatable, but what else.

676
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 3: It's wild because like she's and again it's probably partially

677
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 3: because she became so famous so quickly after this movie,

678
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 3: but she was sort of like one of the only

679
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 3: parts I remembered about this movie, and I was surprised

680
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 3: to rewatch it and see that they Yeah, they've barely

681
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 3: written a character for her.

682
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, she's surprisingly one dimensional and like you said, she's

683
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 5: such a star and she commands the screen and you

684
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 5: kind of like want more from her when you're when

685
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 5: you're watching. So yeah, that's a little a little disappointing

686
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:56,879
Speaker 5: for sure. Like the character development in general is very

687
00:41:57,560 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 5: inequitable across the girls, I would say.

688
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 2: Right, And it's like at the expense of the Miss

689
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 2: Bartlett character having so much like she has the most

690
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:14,800
Speaker 2: significant arc, she has the most significant backstory. Why Is

691
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 2: that the case when it's a movie about this group

692
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:21,720
Speaker 2: of girls on this dance team at the school.

693
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 3: Well, let's take it sort of character by character, Yeah,

694
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 3: just so we can talk about what we do learn

695
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 3: about characters. So, honestly, I don't know how, unfortunately, how

696
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 3: much more I have to say about Yolanda's character, because

697
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 3: there really isn't much there. I know I like her,

698
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,760
Speaker 3: but I'm like, is it just because I like America Ferrara? Maybe?

699
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:44,359
Speaker 5: Yeah.

700
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 3: The character I feel like there is the we learn

701
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 3: the most about and there's the most to talk about

702
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 3: is Daisy. Yeah. And I know that Mikita, you sort

703
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 3: of spoke on how you felt about Daisy and your

704
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 3: piece a little bit. But I'm curious, Yeah, what do

705
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 3: you make of that character?

706
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 4: Crazy? She's so interesting to be.

707
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:06,720
Speaker 5: I mean, I think I think she has a pretty

708
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 5: authentic character arc, you know, like for kind of playing

709
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 5: that typical troubled teen who you know, doesn't maybe have

710
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 5: the most respect for authority and kind of like all

711
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 5: of those tropes, I think she plays it with a

712
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 5: certain degree of heart, So I do like feel for her,

713
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 5: and toward the end when her and Miss Bartlett like

714
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 5: kind of finally see eye to eye, and you know,

715
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,840
Speaker 5: you kind of have that like Disney Channel happy ending.

716
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 4: I am ultimately rooting for her.

717
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 5: I think there are some parts where the conflict maybe

718
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,800
Speaker 5: felt like a little contrived, Like when I was rewatching

719
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 5: it and it was like, oh, she like got up

720
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 5: and danced in class and then got like a month's

721
00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 5: attention and that was like the whole reason why the

722
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 5: whole thing started, you know what I mean, And it

723
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 5: was just like this is Yeah, it was a little

724
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 5: like that part was a little like cringe and lappable,

725
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,880
Speaker 5: but you know, taking it for what it is, like

726
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 5: being a Disney Channel movie, I think I think she

727
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 5: plays it pretty well, and like I will say, her boyfriend.

728
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 4: Is another interesting character. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's your response

729
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 4: is pretty much something.

730
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:32,320
Speaker 3: Like yeah, because I mean I have a huge nostalgic

731
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 3: attachment to this movie. But as I was rewatching it,

732
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:37,720
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, I basically remember nothing about what happened.

733
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,879
Speaker 3: I just remember being like, girls dancing is awesome to me. Yeah,

734
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 3: that was basically my takeaway for sure. But there are

735
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 3: two back to back conflicts that are immediately resolved towards

736
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 3: the end of the movie, where the first one I

737
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 3: thought was very funny because it was like, misterwebsite dot

738
00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:01,399
Speaker 3: com comes to missus Bartletts and he's like, this website

739
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 3: is taken off. You gotta join the website. And then

740
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:08,760
Speaker 3: she's like, I don't know, should I join the website?

741
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 3: And then in the next thing, she's like, I'm not

742
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:12,919
Speaker 3: going to join the website. You're like, well, then why

743
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:14,320
Speaker 3: did I have to look at that?

744
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:14,919
Speaker 5: Yeah?

745
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:15,720
Speaker 3: What's the point?

746
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 5: Yeah?

747
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 3: The second one I think is more interesting because, like

748
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 3: you're Sayingnikita, Daisy has a boyfriend named Chewie, who I'm like,

749
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:28,360
Speaker 3: how old is this? Yeah? I know she is fourteen,

750
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 3: get away from her, but we don't know. So if

751
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 3: we were like he's TV fifteen, which is like human

752
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 3: twenty seven, we don't know. Right, he's old enough to

753
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 3: have a driver's license, so she's really sixteen, So he's

754
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 3: ambiguously older than her. Even if we're leaving that on

755
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 3: the table, I thought he was an interesting character because

756
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 3: I don't know. I feel like, very often you are

757
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:58,839
Speaker 3: shown drop out characters as like this person is bad,

758
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 3: they're bad news, and anyone who drops out of high

759
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:06,360
Speaker 3: school is bad, which is so prescriptive and such bullshit

760
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 3: that I towards the beginning of the story appreciated that

761
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 3: it was like he dropped out of high school, but

762
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 3: he's thriving to the extent that he can. He's got

763
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 3: a job, like he's doing okay. And it was a

764
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 3: sympathetic character who yeah, was generally supportive towards Daisy at first.

765
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 3: But then but well that's the thing that's like a

766
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 3: writing thing to me where he just like, to me,

767
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 3: turned out of nowhere and was like, actually I hate you.

768
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 5: It did seem out of nowhere. Yeah, super out of

769
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 5: left field. I don't know where that decision came from.

770
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 2: I think they're like, oh, we need more drama, more drama.

771
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that was it.

772
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 3: But then it like also resolves within ten minutes because

773
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 3: he's like, I hate you. We were supposed to have

774
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,800
Speaker 3: a family. And then she correctly is like I'm fourteen

775
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 3: and missus Bartlett I think you know, correctly advises Daisy

776
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 3: to be like, hey, don't worry about what this guy

777
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 3: is telling you if he's an asshole, like this is

778
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:13,280
Speaker 3: a good opportunity for you. Yeah, but that's also loaded

779
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:18,959
Speaker 3: coming from the white savior teacher about a Latin teenage boy,

780
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,720
Speaker 3: and so that also felt bizarre. And then it doesn't

781
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:24,759
Speaker 3: matter because he's like, ah, I change my mind, I'm

782
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 3: supportive again. Right Yeah. Yeah.

783
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:31,320
Speaker 2: My main takeaway from that was he does not deserve

784
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:35,760
Speaker 2: the redemption this story gives him, because he's really cruel

785
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 2: and he's basically just like, don't follow your dreams. All

786
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 2: you should do is spend time with me. This whole

787
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 2: dance thing is getting in the way, and don't do that.

788
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:51,840
Speaker 2: And if you're not willing to compromise and like basically

789
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:55,400
Speaker 2: give up dance for me, then you're out of my life.

790
00:47:55,560 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 2: And she's like, once again, I'm fourteen. Why this conversation?

791
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 2: And then like a few seays later, he shows up

792
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 2: at the car wash and he's like just kidding, here's yeah.

793
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 3: You're like, we need a higher forgiveness tax exactly. Yeah,

794
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:15,720
Speaker 3: he needs to put in more effort.

795
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 5: I don't know if it was supposed to be speaking

796
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:22,320
Speaker 5: to like the fickleness of teenagers and maybe like teenage

797
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 5: boys in general. I don't know, but yeah, it did

798
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,400
Speaker 5: seem like kind of like emotional whiplash.

799
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 3: There, Oh sure, yeah, And I mean, ultimately, I it

800
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,800
Speaker 3: was frustrating because again the age thing was throwing me,

801
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 3: but I generally liked Chewie, and it seems like they

802
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 3: were like not bad for each other, like or what

803
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 3: teenage relationship is good? Really like they famously don't go well,

804
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:51,880
Speaker 3: but like it didn't seem like they were bad for

805
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 3: each other, And it seemed like the story had a

806
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 3: lot of love for him and had an interest in

807
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 3: like characterizing him to be like a person, and then

808
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 3: it just felt like the script turned on him. It

809
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 3: didn't feel like that was foreshadowed in any way. Definitely not.

810
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 2: But anyways, Daisy, Daisy Well to bring it all back,

811
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:14,279
Speaker 2: is what we know mostly about her.

812
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 3: I guess you know.

813
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 2: She's the character who butts heads most with Miss Bartlett.

814
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 2: She's also her friendship with Yolanda seems to be the

815
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 2: strongest friendship in the movie, even though we kind of

816
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 2: know nothing about it because again we know nothing about Yolanda,

817
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 2: but at least like the script a lot space to

818
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:36,840
Speaker 2: establish them as close friends. But aside from that, the

819
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,439
Speaker 2: main thing we understand or learn about Daisy's interior life

820
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 2: is her relationship with her boyfriend, which like fine, but

821
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 2: because especially we get other characters and more information about

822
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 2: their home lives and you know, we meet their families

823
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:57,320
Speaker 2: or we have a sense of like what their interests

824
00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 2: are outside of dance and.

825
00:49:58,840 --> 00:49:59,320
Speaker 3: Stuff like that.

826
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 2: But it just felt a little, i don't know, just

827
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 2: a very easy choice to make. For like, the character

828
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 2: who's essentially the protagonist in Daisy is the one who's like, well,

829
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 2: of course she has a hetero boyfriend.

830
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, it kind of seems like most of her story,

831
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 5: outside of the central conflict between her and Miss Bartlett,

832
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 5: is essentially about her being in a relationship, you know,

833
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 5: with this interesting, chewy character. So I do think that

834
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 5: was a missed opportunity, and again for Yoli as well.

835
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:41,239
Speaker 5: I don't really understand why certain characters got maybe a

836
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:43,880
Speaker 5: more holistic sort of treatment in terms of like painting

837
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 5: their family life and at least like putting faces to

838
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 5: names in terms of who the parents were, whose siblings were,

839
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 5: and things like that. It would have been nice to

840
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 5: have had that for all the girls totally.

841
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:57,840
Speaker 3: Well, that's part of what it seems like. Part of

842
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 3: the reason this even made it to air, which also

843
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 3: speaks to the dearth of Latin stories that were out

844
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 3: there at this time, was because a white lady who

845
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 3: already worked at Disney happened to have this experience, and

846
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 3: so she becomes so baked into the story. But like,

847
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 3: as I was rewatching it and also just reflecting on

848
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 3: what I remembered about the movie, which was teenage girls

849
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:25,279
Speaker 3: dancing and that was my favorite thing in the world. Yeah,

850
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 3: I did not remember how integral the coach character was,

851
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 3: and I wish, I guess it was closer to my

852
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 3: warped childhood memory, which was like, this is a movie

853
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:42,279
Speaker 3: about a group of Latina middle schoolers who form a

854
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 3: dance team and win. And I was surprised and kind

855
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 3: of bummed out that the movie did not center around

856
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,759
Speaker 3: their relationships with each other as much, which I feel like,

857
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 3: kind of if we're talking dcom expanded universe, I think

858
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:03,480
Speaker 3: I was maybe projecting some Cheetah Girls onto Yeah, try

859
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 3: to kick it up, because that movie, which we've talked

860
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:08,480
Speaker 3: about on the show and has many of its own faults,

861
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 3: but does generally focus on how the girls relate to

862
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:17,239
Speaker 3: each other and they're in a personal conflict, and that

863
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:20,480
Speaker 3: doesn't exist in this movie as much as I thought

864
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 3: it would, which sucks because it's like, I wish that

865
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 3: the central relationship in this movie was between Daisy and Yoli,

866
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:32,400
Speaker 3: Like that makes more sense than having Daisy's tether be

867
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:37,320
Speaker 3: this lady who flunked out of Julia art, like who cares,

868
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 3: right right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

869
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 2: The friendship between Daisy Andoli is the most the one

870
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 2: we know exists, but again we don't know anything about

871
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:52,800
Speaker 2: it except that they seem to bond over their mutual

872
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 2: interest in dance. There is conflict between Daisy and Esmrelda

873
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 2: to some degree. Where as Morelda she isn't quite so

874
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 2: challenging of authority as Daisy is, and so she's like,

875
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:13,919
Speaker 2: come on, let's dance and let's follow the rules. Yes,

876
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 2: And Daisy thinks she's like kind of a nerd based

877
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:18,719
Speaker 2: on her choice and pass.

878
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 3: That felt pretty like classic like contrived introvert versus extrovert.

879
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, like almost like as Marelda being sort of like

880
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 5: the goody two shoes and Daisy is like the non

881
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:35,279
Speaker 5: goodie two shoes basically, you know, doesn't necessarily listen to

882
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:37,319
Speaker 5: authority and wants to kind of like do her own

883
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 5: thing and but agree, And that also felt contrived. I

884
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 5: think like one of the first lines in the film

885
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 5: is like as Morelda is trying to share like some

886
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 5: music that she wants, like the girls to dance too,

887
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:56,080
Speaker 5: and I think Daisy's like I have the moves, I

888
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 5: pick the tunes or something like that.

889
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 4: You know, And it's just like, so that's so two

890
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:02,359
Speaker 4: thousands of movies.

891
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:08,759
Speaker 5: Oh, two thousands, like very like bring it on esque dialogue? Yes, yeah,

892
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:12,120
Speaker 5: and you're just like, wait, why is this like suddenly contentious?

893
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 5: Like aren't you guys friends? So that was also kind

894
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:18,360
Speaker 5: of weird at times, and it kind of.

895
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 3: Goes under explored too, because it's like that that conflict

896
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:23,840
Speaker 3: comes up a few times, but you never really know

897
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:26,800
Speaker 3: where it comes from, and then it seems like it

898
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 3: just sort of dissipates over time, which can't be true

899
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:32,560
Speaker 3: of conflict between teenagers. But it's like it's a movie

900
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:35,239
Speaker 3: of the week. I need more information, I need more info.

901
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:36,239
Speaker 4: Yeah for sure.

902
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, Daisy says something like get your girly music out

903
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:44,919
Speaker 2: of here. It's like, first of all, what's almost girly music?

904
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:45,360
Speaker 3: To find that?

905
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:46,840
Speaker 4: Yeah? What is early music?

906
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 3: What mean by that?

907
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 2: So? Esmerelda is one of the characters whose home life

908
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 2: we do see. We meet both of her parents. They

909
00:54:56,680 --> 00:55:00,359
Speaker 2: seem loving and supportive, although they expect a lo lot

910
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 2: of as Maralda, especially as far as like providing some

911
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 2: care for her younger brother. They appear to both be

912
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:11,520
Speaker 2: like working parents who probably have pretty demanding work schedules,

913
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 2: so they rely on as Marealda. And I like that

914
00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:16,080
Speaker 2: there's a scene where she like sticks up for herself,

915
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 2: like you expect so much from me, why can't I

916
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 2: have this one thing for myself?

917
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:24,879
Speaker 5: And I was like, yeah, yeah, I love that scene too,

918
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:28,880
Speaker 5: and I was so I remember being angry when I

919
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:32,279
Speaker 5: rewatched that scene if it's the same scene that I think,

920
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 5: because I think it's after they like placed at a competition,

921
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:36,280
Speaker 5: like they did really.

922
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 4: Well, Yeah they did so well, Yeah, they did really well.

923
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 5: And then she comes home and her parents are like,

924
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:42,799
Speaker 5: didn't you know we're supposed to have.

925
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:45,239
Speaker 4: Dinner at your aunts and where are you?

926
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 5: You're supposed to babysit your brother and you're supposed to

927
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 5: cook your brother's dinner and like all.

928
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:53,520
Speaker 4: This stuff, and I'm just like, she's fourteen, Like you

929
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:57,240
Speaker 4: guys are the parents like relax, relax.

930
00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:01,320
Speaker 5: Like But I will say that part feels authentic and

931
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:05,239
Speaker 5: that it at least depicted a reality, you know, for

932
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:10,680
Speaker 5: a lot of Latine LATINX families, you know, starting young,

933
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:14,720
Speaker 5: if you're in a multi generational home, especially eldest daughters

934
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:18,719
Speaker 5: will take on a lot of that emotional labor and

935
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:22,280
Speaker 5: just actual labor in the household.

936
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:25,000
Speaker 4: So that was one thing I think they got right.

937
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:28,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that could have been explored a little bit definitely,

938
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for sure. And then the other character whose

939
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:35,279
Speaker 2: home life we see is Alyssa. She has the like

940
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:39,359
Speaker 2: extremely supportive parents who are showing up to all the competitions.

941
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, and I felt like it was like partially

942
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 3: implied because we get two families that are characterized and

943
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:48,479
Speaker 3: one or two working class parents and the other seem

944
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:51,480
Speaker 3: to be middle class to upper middle class parents, and

945
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 3: those are the parents that we see as being actively supportive.

946
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:57,319
Speaker 3: It just felt like pointed in a way that felt

947
00:56:57,360 --> 00:56:59,719
Speaker 3: a little icky. I don't know what did everyone think

948
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 3: about it?

949
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:04,280
Speaker 4: That it's almost like too easy or like too obvious.

950
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, the implications the optics of it are like

951
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 2: just yeah, just an easy stereotypical chance to make without examining, like, well,

952
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 2: if working class parents appear less supportive, why would that be.

953
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 2: They have to work usually more hours at more often

954
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 2: physically demanding jobs, all of the context is not really

955
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 2: explored in this particular instance, although I think the movie

956
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:39,560
Speaker 2: handles class in otherwise like pretty interesting ways, because it

957
00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:43,960
Speaker 2: does acknowledge that this is a school in a lower

958
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 2: income neighborhood. There's references to like some students dropping out,

959
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:54,959
Speaker 2: maybe at a higher rate than wealthier schools nearby. There's

960
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 2: like a possibility that some students may join gangs. I

961
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 2: think the principal that he like cites that as a

962
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:05,560
Speaker 2: reason that Miss Bartlett should coach the dance team because

963
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 2: it'll help keep kids out of gangs.

964
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 3: But that also and then they're like white savior coded

965
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 3: to me like I. I also, I did not really

966
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 3: like how the principal spoke about his own students and

967
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:22,880
Speaker 3: to his own students at a number of points in

968
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:26,120
Speaker 3: the movie, where like when we meet him, he is

969
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:29,000
Speaker 3: telling a black teenager to pull his pants up, which

970
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 3: if there is not a more reductive two thousand and

971
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:35,800
Speaker 3: two thing to be happening in a movie. And then

972
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:40,200
Speaker 3: I struggled with the principle because it just seems like

973
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:42,920
Speaker 3: I believe that he cared about his students, but there

974
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:45,400
Speaker 3: were but the way that he spoke about them behind

975
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:48,920
Speaker 3: their backs felt like it really like it was very

976
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:53,880
Speaker 3: very harsh and reductive at a number of points. I

977
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:54,920
Speaker 3: didn't love him.

978
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, he also loves the military or like brought his

979
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:02,040
Speaker 2: military brackground and he.

980
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 4: Was like in the military.

981
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:07,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was definitely like I guess the implication that

982
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 5: let these types of students need or require this kind

983
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 5: of like strict militaristic style like form of authority.

984
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:23,280
Speaker 4: I guess in order to be you know, led in

985
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:24,960
Speaker 4: the right direction or whatever.

986
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:28,440
Speaker 5: Like the tough love kind of thing is like that

987
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:31,960
Speaker 5: sort of trope, like that's what's required.

988
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 4: And it's like, well, or you could just like not

989
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:35,160
Speaker 4: be an asshole.

990
00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:40,400
Speaker 3: Basically exactly high school principles I feel like are all

991
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:44,600
Speaker 3: cut of the same cloth to some extent where it's like, yeah,

992
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:46,760
Speaker 3: you have to be sort of hardened to the world

993
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:50,440
Speaker 3: if your job is being torn to shreds by teenagers

994
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:54,080
Speaker 3: every day. Very true, I wouldn't survive a day. But

995
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:56,960
Speaker 3: I feel like it's frustrating because we see him be

996
00:59:57,160 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 3: very harsh to the students to their face. It would

997
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:01,040
Speaker 3: have been nice to see, I guess him have like

998
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:05,200
Speaker 3: a gentle moment with a student, but we really only

999
01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:08,880
Speaker 3: see him have gentle moments with missus Bartlett for some reason,

1000
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:12,560
Speaker 3: and you're like, again, miss Bartlett is just like in

1001
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:15,080
Speaker 3: the way, in this weird way where it's like, oh,

1002
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:18,919
Speaker 3: let me show my soft side to this random lady

1003
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:23,040
Speaker 3: with no teaching experience, which just her dot com company failed.

1004
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 2: How does she go from having a background in dance

1005
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 2: to then being some executive at a tech company or

1006
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:34,440
Speaker 2: like an internet startup or something, and then to a

1007
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 2: biology teacher? Like what is that trajectory?

1008
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:41,800
Speaker 3: I mean, I think that that is probably an attempt

1009
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:44,680
Speaker 3: to comment on, like on the Teach for America culture

1010
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:47,920
Speaker 3: where it's like that program does bring in teachers that

1011
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 3: don't have a lot of experience. But again, it's just

1012
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:55,160
Speaker 3: like the fact that we know about two of this

1013
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:59,600
Speaker 3: lady's failed careers indicators that we know too much about her.

1014
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:05,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then we like never learn anything about Yoli

1015
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:08,200
Speaker 2: except that she's not good.

1016
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:12,120
Speaker 3: Why do I know about all three of miss Bartlett's

1017
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:18,439
Speaker 3: career and nothing about Yoli? Like it's really really unbalanced.

1018
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:21,600
Speaker 5: I like what you just said about her just kind

1019
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:26,080
Speaker 5: of being in the way of the story, Like that's

1020
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:28,560
Speaker 5: what it feels like when I watched it. There would

1021
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 5: be a moment of like the girls being on screen

1022
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 5: or them with their families or something, and you're kind

1023
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:34,560
Speaker 5: of just wanting a little bit more.

1024
01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:37,400
Speaker 4: And then it's like back to Miss Bartlett and.

1025
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:41,800
Speaker 5: Like her the fact that she was a Juilliard for

1026
01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:46,080
Speaker 5: two weeks, and it's like, okay, I mean cool.

1027
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 3: She's crying. I just was like, I feel bad. I

1028
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:52,880
Speaker 3: did laugh when she cried because you're just like, just like,

1029
01:01:53,200 --> 01:01:57,120
Speaker 3: get over it. Not that I get it. Trauma can

1030
01:01:57,240 --> 01:02:00,160
Speaker 3: look like anything, but this one where's pretty silly. One

1031
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:02,520
Speaker 3: of my favorite moments in the movie that made me

1032
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:05,720
Speaker 3: laugh because it was just so out of nowhere in

1033
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 3: Hoki was when Chewy and Daisy broke into the school

1034
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:12,800
Speaker 3: on a weekend to like, I don't know, be mischievous

1035
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:16,240
Speaker 3: or whatever they were. Yeah, she picks up her backpack. Yes,

1036
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:19,160
Speaker 3: they broke into the school, and then she's like, wait,

1037
01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:25,880
Speaker 3: what's that music? And Miss Bartlet's like flash dancing in

1038
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:30,040
Speaker 3: the gym by herself, and Chewiy's like, wow, she's hot,

1039
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:37,160
Speaker 3: Like what am I watching? Why is this on my

1040
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:41,720
Speaker 3: television screen? And then she finishes dancing and then she

1041
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:44,280
Speaker 3: starts crying and you're like, oh god, we're gonna have

1042
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:48,560
Speaker 3: to learn about what I don't care.

1043
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 2: Something that really stood out to me was it's miss

1044
01:02:54,280 --> 01:03:01,800
Speaker 2: Bartlett's idea for these girls to incorporate dance from their cultures,

1045
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:07,320
Speaker 2: their cultural backgrounds, Like why wouldn't that be the girl's idea?

1046
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:10,560
Speaker 2: And then the way miss Barlett frames it too, is like,

1047
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 2: let's do something really innovative by taking advantage of your background,

1048
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:17,840
Speaker 2: which is such a white perspective to be like, of

1049
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:21,880
Speaker 2: course you think that incorporating existing dance styles from other

1050
01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:23,960
Speaker 2: cultures would be innovative innovative.

1051
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:26,320
Speaker 3: Well, this is coming from the same woman that on

1052
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 3: the first day of auditions was like, I will not

1053
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:33,920
Speaker 3: allow any tardiness for any reason, even if you're Esmerelda

1054
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:37,040
Speaker 3: and you have responsibility to your brother. Also, no dark

1055
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 3: lipstick and no jewelry and no just like all of

1056
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:43,680
Speaker 3: these very pointed sounding comments to be like, I want

1057
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:48,520
Speaker 3: you to be a Juilliard ballerina. Yeah, you're out. And

1058
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:51,200
Speaker 3: I feel like it was at least presented in a

1059
01:03:51,240 --> 01:03:53,800
Speaker 3: way that was like, oh, she means business, where it's like, no,

1060
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:56,760
Speaker 3: I think she's being She's saying a lot of fucked

1061
01:03:56,840 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 3: up things.

1062
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:02,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, Like her subconscious bias was definitely showing it was like, oh,

1063
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:05,680
Speaker 5: we're trying to paint the dancers like they can only

1064
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:09,280
Speaker 5: be dancers if they look and act a certain way.

1065
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:14,080
Speaker 5: And I do think obviously, you know, thinking about sort

1066
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:18,760
Speaker 5: of the stereotypical white, blonde haired you know, Juliard Ballerina.

1067
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:23,000
Speaker 5: And then to your point, those comments about like because

1068
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:25,120
Speaker 5: I think Esmerelda was like walking in lane and she's like,

1069
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:27,400
Speaker 5: I'm sorry, I had to you know, like pick up

1070
01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:30,360
Speaker 5: my brother after school or something like that, and she's

1071
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:33,920
Speaker 5: just like, tardiness will not be accepted, and it's like

1072
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:34,800
Speaker 5: it's your first.

1073
01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:37,280
Speaker 4: Day, Like can we be a little like realistic here?

1074
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:42,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, And then the remark about the dark lipstick and

1075
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:47,439
Speaker 5: like the long nails, and you know, like obviously it's

1076
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:51,120
Speaker 5: like those are signifiers for a lot of Latinas in

1077
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:54,040
Speaker 5: relation to how they do, you know, their beauty routine

1078
01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:58,240
Speaker 5: and things like that. So that was it's just like, yeah,

1079
01:04:58,400 --> 01:05:01,800
Speaker 5: definitely some like coded subtexts there. Whether that was intentional

1080
01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:04,200
Speaker 5: or not, you know what I mean, but it was

1081
01:05:04,240 --> 01:05:05,360
Speaker 5: definitely there, and.

1082
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:08,000
Speaker 3: If it was intentional, it should have been commented on

1083
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:12,040
Speaker 3: like as a part of like if we absolutely have

1084
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:17,160
Speaker 3: to be invested in this woman's arc, unlearning her racist

1085
01:05:17,240 --> 01:05:20,360
Speaker 3: biases should be a part of that, but instead, the

1086
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:24,880
Speaker 3: closest you get is another moment where I laughed, where

1087
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 3: it's like a serious scene between Missus Bartlett and Daisy,

1088
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:31,080
Speaker 3: where Daisy teaches her the phrase cisipee and.

1089
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:34,320
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, she goes see see.

1090
01:05:35,720 --> 01:05:39,919
Speaker 3: You're like, oh my god, Missus Bartlett sucks so much,

1091
01:05:40,080 --> 01:05:45,560
Speaker 3: she's so annoying. Oh my god. Yeah, I little standard.

1092
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:49,280
Speaker 2: That reminds me of another point you made in your

1093
01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:53,800
Speaker 2: Refinery twenty nine piece Mekita is the lack of diversity

1094
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:59,680
Speaker 2: across the spectrum of Latini Dad where the characters for

1095
01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:03,160
Speaker 2: the part at a school that seems to be predominantly

1096
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:10,640
Speaker 2: LATINX Latine students. They're at least on the dance team,

1097
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:15,680
Speaker 2: there're no, for example, Afro Latina students. We're also not

1098
01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:21,600
Speaker 2: sure what nationality any of these girls are. We know

1099
01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:25,320
Speaker 2: that the other girl in the main cast, who is

1100
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:29,520
Speaker 2: introduced later, so she has even less characterization than the

1101
01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:32,080
Speaker 2: other ones. But madrisoul I saw I want to say

1102
01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:38,240
Speaker 2: she is an immigrant from what country we don't know.

1103
01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:41,000
Speaker 2: And then the other thing with her is that there

1104
01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:44,680
Speaker 2: are several references to her English not being perfect which

1105
01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:49,360
Speaker 2: again just feels like another easy stereotypical choice, where of course,

1106
01:06:49,520 --> 01:06:53,000
Speaker 2: like when a language is not someone's first language, there

1107
01:06:53,040 --> 01:06:56,800
Speaker 2: will be challenges often for that speaker, but to like

1108
01:06:57,240 --> 01:07:01,000
Speaker 2: constantly draw attention to her not being anti speaker just

1109
01:07:01,120 --> 01:07:02,040
Speaker 2: felt a little and.

1110
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:04,000
Speaker 3: Is because like that's the only thing we really know

1111
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:06,959
Speaker 3: about her, like exactly, yeah, English not being her first

1112
01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:10,919
Speaker 3: language is sort of this clunky movie of the week

1113
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:15,280
Speaker 3: way of conveying plot information, and that is like how

1114
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:17,680
Speaker 3: it goes at the climax of the movie where it's

1115
01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:20,720
Speaker 3: like that is not not quite the joke, but like

1116
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:24,240
Speaker 3: that is the function of her character is to communicate

1117
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:26,640
Speaker 3: information to other people, and we know nothing about her.

1118
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:29,080
Speaker 2: Other than that, yeah, right, And then they're like are

1119
01:07:29,120 --> 01:07:31,520
Speaker 2: you sure you even understood that correctly?

1120
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:32,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, and she's like.

1121
01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:34,439
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah.

1122
01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:36,560
Speaker 5: It's like it's probably something that could have been touched

1123
01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:41,200
Speaker 5: on like once and then not right, it doesn't need

1124
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:43,800
Speaker 5: to keep Like there was definitely a lot of missed

1125
01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:47,959
Speaker 5: opportunities for just again more character development and something else

1126
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:48,640
Speaker 5: that would be an.

1127
01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:52,360
Speaker 4: Actual like marker of her personality or her fact.

1128
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:52,640
Speaker 5: You know.

1129
01:07:52,840 --> 01:07:54,760
Speaker 4: It's just it was very one dimensional.

1130
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:58,240
Speaker 2: I will say she is the one who says like, oh,

1131
01:07:58,360 --> 01:08:01,960
Speaker 2: it's like my grandmother always says see sepe, which becomes

1132
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:06,240
Speaker 2: the team yahatto. So that's her contribution. But aside from that,

1133
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:09,960
Speaker 2: we don't know really anything about her. But back to

1134
01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:13,360
Speaker 2: just the lack of diversity, and there are no cultural

1135
01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:17,000
Speaker 2: specifics for the girls who seem to be mostly well,

1136
01:08:17,000 --> 01:08:20,120
Speaker 2: I don't want to make any assumptions. I would hazard

1137
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:22,599
Speaker 2: a guess that at least some of them are first generation,

1138
01:08:23,240 --> 01:08:26,080
Speaker 2: maybe some of their second generation or more, but you know,

1139
01:08:26,280 --> 01:08:29,200
Speaker 2: it would stand a reason that they would maybe mention like, oh,

1140
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:32,960
Speaker 2: like you know, this is my specific cultural heritage, and

1141
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 2: maybe they didn't do that in the movie to just

1142
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:38,200
Speaker 2: try to seem more inclusive, like we don't want to

1143
01:08:38,280 --> 01:08:41,559
Speaker 2: leave anybody. Yeah, so we're not going to be specific.

1144
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:44,760
Speaker 3: But it also gets like the monolith syndrome.

1145
01:08:44,479 --> 01:08:45,599
Speaker 2: Right exactly.

1146
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:46,160
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1147
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:51,720
Speaker 2: So, and then there's not much body diversity either in

1148
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:55,560
Speaker 2: the cast where I mean America Ferrera, especially during this

1149
01:08:55,640 --> 01:08:58,599
Speaker 2: time in her career, was one of the few young

1150
01:08:58,760 --> 01:09:04,320
Speaker 2: fat actors at this time, and this is something that

1151
01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:06,519
Speaker 2: a lot of movies she was in at this time

1152
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:08,439
Speaker 2: calls a lot of attention to, or just a lot

1153
01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:09,600
Speaker 2: of the media because we.

1154
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:11,479
Speaker 3: Covered row women have curves last year.

1155
01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:15,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't hate the way body size is

1156
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:18,720
Speaker 2: handled in that movie. But then you've got things like

1157
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:23,000
Speaker 2: Ugly Betty and like Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, which

1158
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:25,800
Speaker 2: like so much attention is called to her size and

1159
01:09:25,880 --> 01:09:29,160
Speaker 2: how she's bigger than the other girls around. I like

1160
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:32,559
Speaker 2: that this movie just allows her to be fat without

1161
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:35,519
Speaker 2: calling attention to it. Although the first thing you see

1162
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:38,120
Speaker 2: her doing in the movie is buying a candy bar,

1163
01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:42,880
Speaker 2: which again just like feels like a oh well, of course, yeah,

1164
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:46,000
Speaker 2: fat girl is gonna buy candy and then that's not

1165
01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:48,360
Speaker 2: something we see any of the other girls doing.

1166
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:52,799
Speaker 3: But I was also like, yeah, let her have her snack.

1167
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:56,400
Speaker 3: Jesus fucking Christ. I hate that a girl eating a

1168
01:09:56,479 --> 01:10:00,879
Speaker 3: candy bar is a political statement. It's yeah, it's so frustrating.

1169
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:04,120
Speaker 5: Well and even even worse it is like in that scene,

1170
01:10:04,280 --> 01:10:07,240
Speaker 5: I think she dropped it and then somebody stomped on it,

1171
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:11,600
Speaker 5: and then like Daisy k cut you meet Daisy and

1172
01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:14,600
Speaker 5: she tells the bully to back off or whatever, and

1173
01:10:14,680 --> 01:10:17,200
Speaker 5: it's just I don't know, like you said, like, can

1174
01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:20,200
Speaker 5: we just let her have her candy bar? And like

1175
01:10:20,400 --> 01:10:22,200
Speaker 5: not make it into a thing because I think the

1176
01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:25,360
Speaker 5: bully said something like, oh is this part of your diet,

1177
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:26,360
Speaker 5: like making.

1178
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:29,400
Speaker 4: You know, like some snide remark and true, and that

1179
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:30,160
Speaker 4: was unfortunate.

1180
01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:33,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think we talked about this in the

1181
01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:37,200
Speaker 3: Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants episode forever ago. But yeah, like,

1182
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:40,599
Speaker 3: because America Ferro was one of the only teen actors

1183
01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:44,560
Speaker 3: that wasn't extremely skinny at this time, it felt like

1184
01:10:44,680 --> 01:10:49,000
Speaker 3: she had to take on so much like not she

1185
01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:51,680
Speaker 3: couldn't just be an actor because she also had to

1186
01:10:51,760 --> 01:10:57,280
Speaker 3: be a signifier of body type that was supposedly not allowed,

1187
01:10:57,439 --> 01:11:00,400
Speaker 3: but now we're allowing it. But just for this one girl.

1188
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:02,840
Speaker 3: And yeah, I mean and unfortunately I think that that

1189
01:11:03,120 --> 01:11:06,160
Speaker 3: there is still a lot of that around today. But

1190
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:09,679
Speaker 3: it's just I don't know. I love America Fraras so much.

1191
01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:13,760
Speaker 3: I just like wish are the best in every damn thing.

1192
01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:16,920
Speaker 3: She had to take a lot of shit so much.

1193
01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:18,160
Speaker 3: Oh yeah for existing.

1194
01:11:18,360 --> 01:11:22,759
Speaker 2: I also wonder if because again because outside of her character,

1195
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:28,400
Speaker 2: there's no body diversity. Yeah, and I almost wonder because

1196
01:11:28,479 --> 01:11:33,280
Speaker 2: she's the only fat character, is that why her characterization

1197
01:11:33,400 --> 01:11:36,599
Speaker 2: seems to be scaled back? Wouldn't surprise me, it's happened

1198
01:11:36,800 --> 01:11:41,200
Speaker 2: before in many movies where the one fat character in

1199
01:11:41,320 --> 01:11:44,920
Speaker 2: the movie has little to no characterization.

1200
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:47,719
Speaker 4: I think that's a really good point, very possible.

1201
01:11:48,120 --> 01:11:50,200
Speaker 3: It's so bizarre because it's like this movie is so

1202
01:11:50,560 --> 01:11:54,040
Speaker 3: I think because of the genre, it is, like it's

1203
01:11:54,520 --> 01:11:57,680
Speaker 3: pretty vague in most ways other than you know that

1204
01:11:58,040 --> 01:12:01,680
Speaker 3: most of the characters are Latina. But like I mean,

1205
01:12:01,720 --> 01:12:03,920
Speaker 3: speaking to your point, Makita, and in your piece, like

1206
01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:07,400
Speaker 3: you would have to change very very little about Missus

1207
01:12:07,439 --> 01:12:11,280
Speaker 3: Bartlett for her to not be a white character. I

1208
01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:13,519
Speaker 3: think that there are elements that it's like, oh, this

1209
01:12:13,880 --> 01:12:16,000
Speaker 3: is cooked into who this character is, but it would

1210
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:17,720
Speaker 3: have been easy to scale back. And I think that

1211
01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:20,559
Speaker 3: that is like kind of what can be potentially freeing

1212
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:24,599
Speaker 3: about movies like this is that they're like not written

1213
01:12:24,680 --> 01:12:27,559
Speaker 3: in a hyper specific way, and so you can cast anybody,

1214
01:12:27,720 --> 01:12:31,680
Speaker 3: and like who you cast makes a difference. But I

1215
01:12:31,760 --> 01:12:35,240
Speaker 3: think in certain roles, yeah, like in Joli's role and

1216
01:12:35,360 --> 01:12:38,840
Speaker 3: in Missus Bartlett's role in particular, like they sort of

1217
01:12:39,640 --> 01:12:45,439
Speaker 3: played to stereotypes and they played to easy quote unquote

1218
01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:49,879
Speaker 3: marketable choices versus acting in the best interest of the characters.

1219
01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:51,360
Speaker 3: For sure.

1220
01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:54,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, Yeah, I would have loved to have seen a

1221
01:12:54,720 --> 01:12:57,880
Speaker 5: Latina and Afro latina play Miss Bartlett.

1222
01:12:58,000 --> 01:12:59,880
Speaker 4: I think that could have been really cool.

1223
01:13:00,240 --> 01:13:02,480
Speaker 3: But oh wow, absolutely.

1224
01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:03,080
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1225
01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:06,639
Speaker 2: Well, now they just need to remake the movie.

1226
01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:10,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, we need.

1227
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:15,760
Speaker 3: Any other thoughts before we sort of wrap things up.

1228
01:13:16,240 --> 01:13:19,080
Speaker 2: My last little thing was, I think it's great that

1229
01:13:19,160 --> 01:13:23,320
Speaker 2: this is a predominantly female, femme cast, but I also

1230
01:13:23,400 --> 01:13:25,439
Speaker 2: think it would have been cool to see some boys

1231
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:28,559
Speaker 2: on the dance team as well, especially in this context.

1232
01:13:29,040 --> 01:13:33,560
Speaker 2: Dance is considered to be like a more feminine activity,

1233
01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:36,400
Speaker 2: especially because they seem to and maybe this is a thing,

1234
01:13:36,479 --> 01:13:39,360
Speaker 2: Maybe this is just my ignorance about what certain high

1235
01:13:39,400 --> 01:13:45,040
Speaker 2: school extracurricular activities are actually like. But they're a dance team,

1236
01:13:45,560 --> 01:13:53,320
Speaker 2: but they're wearing cheerleading uniforms, and like, Okay, that's just

1237
01:13:53,400 --> 01:13:57,280
Speaker 2: my ignorance. Okay, anyway, so in any case, this would

1238
01:13:57,280 --> 01:14:01,680
Speaker 2: have been considered, I think, a more feminine extracurricular activity.

1239
01:14:01,800 --> 01:14:03,320
Speaker 2: But I think it would have been cool to see

1240
01:14:03,400 --> 01:14:06,479
Speaker 2: some boys like doing dance and being on the dance

1241
01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:12,280
Speaker 2: team to kind of challenge those genderal expectations. But I

1242
01:14:12,320 --> 01:14:14,360
Speaker 2: don't think that like takes away from the movie and Again,

1243
01:14:14,360 --> 01:14:20,280
Speaker 2: I appreciate that this is largely a like all femme cast,

1244
01:14:21,880 --> 01:14:25,120
Speaker 2: but that's it for me. Yeah, any other thoughts nothing

1245
01:14:25,240 --> 01:14:25,479
Speaker 2: for me.

1246
01:14:25,760 --> 01:14:28,600
Speaker 4: I mean, I think it's still like I feel a

1247
01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:30,200
Speaker 4: little nostalgic for it, and.

1248
01:14:30,280 --> 01:14:32,679
Speaker 5: I do think like we're watching these with the gift

1249
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:35,880
Speaker 5: of hindsight, and you know, it's so easy to say

1250
01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:38,200
Speaker 5: we would do this and this differently. But you know,

1251
01:14:38,360 --> 01:14:40,400
Speaker 5: I appreciate that it was at least like a step

1252
01:14:40,479 --> 01:14:43,400
Speaker 5: in the right direction in terms of, you know, broadening

1253
01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:47,320
Speaker 5: representation on the Disney Channel, which like was such a

1254
01:14:47,560 --> 01:14:50,680
Speaker 5: seminole like pop culture thing for so many like millennials

1255
01:14:50,720 --> 01:14:54,160
Speaker 5: in particular. So I appreciate it for what it was

1256
01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:55,559
Speaker 5: at the time for sure.

1257
01:14:55,720 --> 01:14:58,240
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, we talk about this a lot on the

1258
01:14:58,280 --> 01:15:01,879
Speaker 3: show of like Stepping Stone movies of like this movie's

1259
01:15:02,360 --> 01:15:05,920
Speaker 3: success you can hope because it was so I mean,

1260
01:15:06,040 --> 01:15:08,200
Speaker 3: clearly we're talking about it over twenty years later, like

1261
01:15:08,280 --> 01:15:12,040
Speaker 3: it is a well remembered movie. Yeah, this movie led

1262
01:15:12,160 --> 01:15:18,080
Speaker 3: to better and more thoughtful representation, and so in that way,

1263
01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:19,800
Speaker 3: I feel like, yeah, we talked about this in movies

1264
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:22,280
Speaker 3: we grew up with all the time, where it's like, well, no,

1265
01:15:22,520 --> 01:15:25,880
Speaker 3: it's you know, it is in no way perfect, but

1266
01:15:26,920 --> 01:15:30,120
Speaker 3: because there were young people who wanted to make stuff

1267
01:15:31,080 --> 01:15:33,680
Speaker 3: watching it, it did have an important role and make

1268
01:15:33,720 --> 01:15:35,560
Speaker 3: a difference, which is kind of you know, in some

1269
01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:36,800
Speaker 3: ways the bust you can hope for.

1270
01:15:37,439 --> 01:15:43,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely indeed, And it handily passes the Bechdel test.

1271
01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:46,519
Speaker 3: Yes, almost all the time, except when it's like the

1272
01:15:46,600 --> 01:15:49,439
Speaker 3: principle or chewy. I think those are really the only

1273
01:15:49,520 --> 01:15:52,519
Speaker 3: times where it isn't a discussion about something other than

1274
01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:52,800
Speaker 3: a man.

1275
01:15:53,080 --> 01:15:57,479
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they're talking about dance. They're talking about Julia

1276
01:15:57,560 --> 01:16:02,840
Speaker 2: aren't bad at math, bad, etc. You know, all the

1277
01:16:02,920 --> 01:16:04,360
Speaker 2: major topics of conversation.

1278
01:16:04,520 --> 01:16:06,439
Speaker 3: Look, say what you will. I was talking a lot

1279
01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:09,559
Speaker 3: about being bad at math in high school. It consumed

1280
01:16:09,560 --> 01:16:10,320
Speaker 3: a lot of my time.

1281
01:16:10,920 --> 01:16:17,080
Speaker 2: Not me, I was talking about being good at math. Well, no,

1282
01:16:17,120 --> 01:16:20,240
Speaker 2: I'm kidding. I don't know what I was talking about

1283
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:24,839
Speaker 2: in high school so long ago. Anyway, Yeah, it passes

1284
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:27,360
Speaker 2: a lot, although I again I wish there was just

1285
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:32,599
Speaker 2: more meaningful relationships established among the girls on the dance team.

1286
01:16:33,240 --> 01:16:36,880
Speaker 2: But it does still pass a lot. But as far

1287
01:16:37,120 --> 01:16:42,240
Speaker 2: as the perfect metric, which is of course our nipple scale,

1288
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:45,400
Speaker 2: where we rate the movie on a scale of zero

1289
01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:50,040
Speaker 2: to five nipples. Examining it through an intersectional feminist lens,

1290
01:16:51,240 --> 01:16:54,559
Speaker 2: I'll be I'm between like a two and a half

1291
01:16:54,720 --> 01:17:01,439
Speaker 2: and a three. I do appreciate that the movie is

1292
01:17:02,560 --> 01:17:10,759
Speaker 2: in essence about a group of Latina dancers in middle school,

1293
01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:13,559
Speaker 2: even though they're in ninth grade, which is again maybe

1294
01:17:13,600 --> 01:17:17,479
Speaker 2: another thing that I'm misunderstanding that's confusing. Really, I was like,

1295
01:17:17,520 --> 01:17:20,400
Speaker 2: middle school ends at eighth grade. I thought ninth grade.

1296
01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:22,960
Speaker 3: I think it changes by region though, because I think

1297
01:17:23,040 --> 01:17:25,559
Speaker 3: in some places it's like it could be five to eight,

1298
01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:29,080
Speaker 3: it could be six to nine. Like, I'm pretty sure

1299
01:17:30,240 --> 01:17:30,840
Speaker 3: it varies.

1300
01:17:31,360 --> 01:17:34,840
Speaker 5: I will say when I was like going through middle

1301
01:17:34,920 --> 01:17:37,760
Speaker 5: school high school, I'm originally from like Nebraska, so like

1302
01:17:37,960 --> 01:17:40,400
Speaker 5: there were some high schools that.

1303
01:17:40,520 --> 01:17:43,200
Speaker 4: Were ten through twelve, oh okay, and then there were

1304
01:17:43,200 --> 01:17:43,600
Speaker 4: a couple of.

1305
01:17:43,560 --> 01:17:47,200
Speaker 5: Middle schools that I think were six through nine if

1306
01:17:47,240 --> 01:17:49,680
Speaker 5: I remember correctly, But I think at some point it

1307
01:17:49,840 --> 01:17:53,679
Speaker 5: all kind of shifted again, and then the traditional middle

1308
01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:57,200
Speaker 5: grades were six through eight. Right.

1309
01:17:57,400 --> 01:17:59,840
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, when I think about like the range of

1310
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:03,639
Speaker 3: dates that my public school went through, You're like, why

1311
01:18:03,920 --> 01:18:06,120
Speaker 3: it actually makes more sense to do it in like

1312
01:18:06,320 --> 01:18:10,559
Speaker 3: four year increments, because I did, like K through six,

1313
01:18:11,200 --> 01:18:14,680
Speaker 3: seven and eight and nine through twelve, and why was that?

1314
01:18:15,760 --> 01:18:16,280
Speaker 3: We'll never know.

1315
01:18:16,479 --> 01:18:19,840
Speaker 2: Anyways, another thing we don't have the answer to any case. Yeah,

1316
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:22,280
Speaker 2: this is some antics that I shouldn't get hung up on.

1317
01:18:22,920 --> 01:18:26,519
Speaker 2: But I appreciate that it's about this group of Latina

1318
01:18:26,560 --> 01:18:31,320
Speaker 2: girls at this school that addresses class in you know,

1319
01:18:31,400 --> 01:18:35,720
Speaker 2: could have been handled more thoughtfully, but I appreciate that

1320
01:18:35,800 --> 01:18:37,920
Speaker 2: that's a component of it. We didn't really talk about

1321
01:18:37,960 --> 01:18:40,720
Speaker 2: the you know, Daisy getting an offer to apply to

1322
01:18:40,840 --> 01:18:45,439
Speaker 2: this like prestigious performing arts school and like assuming that

1323
01:18:45,560 --> 01:18:48,400
Speaker 2: she wouldn't be able to go because her mother couldn't

1324
01:18:48,400 --> 01:18:52,200
Speaker 2: afford it, and she's like hesitant because she thinks, she

1325
01:18:52,280 --> 01:18:54,799
Speaker 2: assumes it'll be a bunch of like rich white kids

1326
01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:58,439
Speaker 2: at this school. So, you know, it does some things

1327
01:18:58,479 --> 01:19:04,120
Speaker 2: to tackle class It does some things to sort of

1328
01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:07,640
Speaker 2: characterize some of the girls, but again because it is

1329
01:19:07,720 --> 01:19:11,760
Speaker 2: such a focus on the arc and the backstory of

1330
01:19:12,320 --> 01:19:18,719
Speaker 2: the Miss Bartlett character, especially where like she's a white

1331
01:19:18,800 --> 01:19:24,840
Speaker 2: woman from seemingly a more upper middle class background coming

1332
01:19:24,920 --> 01:19:28,519
Speaker 2: in to be this like white savior figure for these

1333
01:19:29,280 --> 01:19:32,720
Speaker 2: kids who might be on a bad path, so she

1334
01:19:32,920 --> 01:19:35,840
Speaker 2: has to reach them through dance, and it's like, well,

1335
01:19:35,880 --> 01:19:37,640
Speaker 2: they already want to do dance, Like.

1336
01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:42,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're actively preventing them at many points in the story.

1337
01:19:42,960 --> 01:19:46,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, and doing it you keep like trying to bail

1338
01:19:46,880 --> 01:19:49,200
Speaker 2: or like holding back they and they're constantly like it

1339
01:19:49,240 --> 01:19:51,439
Speaker 2: seems like you're holding out on us, like can you

1340
01:19:51,560 --> 01:19:54,760
Speaker 2: be more present and like quit betraying us all the time.

1341
01:19:54,880 --> 01:19:59,080
Speaker 2: And she's just like huh what anyway. So I think

1342
01:19:59,439 --> 01:20:02,760
Speaker 2: a lot of the choices feel very early two thousand's era.

1343
01:20:03,000 --> 01:20:07,280
Speaker 2: A lot of things were not challenged that would I

1344
01:20:07,320 --> 01:20:11,160
Speaker 2: think be challenged were the movie to come out today. Yeah,

1345
01:20:11,479 --> 01:20:14,240
Speaker 2: The lack of characterization for some of the girls, the

1346
01:20:14,360 --> 01:20:21,000
Speaker 2: lack of specificity I think is potentially harmful, lack of

1347
01:20:21,400 --> 01:20:26,160
Speaker 2: diversity among the Latina students, things like that. With all

1348
01:20:26,240 --> 01:20:27,439
Speaker 2: that in mind, so yeah, I think I'll give it

1349
01:20:27,439 --> 01:20:29,559
Speaker 2: two and a half nipples, sort of, let's split down

1350
01:20:29,560 --> 01:20:34,880
Speaker 2: the middle, and I will give one to America forra

1351
01:20:35,080 --> 01:20:41,400
Speaker 2: because she's just so wonderful. I'll give one to Camille Guati,

1352
01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:47,000
Speaker 2: that's who plays Daisy, and I'll give my half nipple

1353
01:20:47,200 --> 01:20:52,960
Speaker 2: to Marsol, who I wish we knew anything else about.

1354
01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:56,439
Speaker 4: I know any more. Information would have been.

1355
01:20:56,640 --> 01:21:01,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going to go three. I kind of even

1356
01:21:01,240 --> 01:21:02,920
Speaker 3: want to go a little bit higher, but I think

1357
01:21:02,960 --> 01:21:07,000
Speaker 3: that that might be nostalgic. I'll go three, because, like

1358
01:21:07,080 --> 01:21:10,320
Speaker 3: we've been talking about, I mean, this movie has many shortcomings.

1359
01:21:10,640 --> 01:21:15,920
Speaker 3: Its lack of diversity within the Latin community, its lack

1360
01:21:15,960 --> 01:21:19,480
Speaker 3: of a specificity, the fact that this movie should absolutely

1361
01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:23,040
Speaker 3: be about the relationship of girls on the team and

1362
01:21:23,200 --> 01:21:27,479
Speaker 3: not girls and Juilliard flops like that will never stop

1363
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:29,960
Speaker 3: being annoying to me. I totally forgot about it, and

1364
01:21:30,040 --> 01:21:33,680
Speaker 3: now I will never forget about it. Yeah, I think that, like,

1365
01:21:33,920 --> 01:21:37,120
Speaker 3: this movie definitely fumbles in a lot of ways, and

1366
01:21:37,520 --> 01:21:40,120
Speaker 3: also I want to hold space for it as a

1367
01:21:40,400 --> 01:21:43,920
Speaker 3: very very unique movie to its time, at least in

1368
01:21:44,160 --> 01:21:47,240
Speaker 3: I mean in the like millennial movie.

1369
01:21:48,479 --> 01:21:53,160
Speaker 2: Especially targeted toward like young tweens or just young people

1370
01:21:53,200 --> 01:21:53,679
Speaker 2: in general.

1371
01:21:54,240 --> 01:21:57,600
Speaker 3: Absolutely, it's almost and it shouldn't be this way, but

1372
01:21:57,680 --> 01:21:59,840
Speaker 3: it is almost completely singular in terms of like a

1373
01:22:00,240 --> 01:22:02,800
Speaker 3: piece of mass media designed for tween girls that is

1374
01:22:03,240 --> 01:22:08,000
Speaker 3: theoretically exclusively about Latina teens. And I appreciate that it

1375
01:22:08,080 --> 01:22:11,479
Speaker 3: had such a big impact and on the rewatch, I

1376
01:22:11,560 --> 01:22:13,640
Speaker 3: wish that because it had such a big impact. It

1377
01:22:13,680 --> 01:22:18,240
Speaker 3: had handled a number of issues better. Miss Bartlet's a flop.

1378
01:22:19,080 --> 01:22:21,120
Speaker 3: I wish that we could just sort of eject her

1379
01:22:21,160 --> 01:22:24,400
Speaker 3: out of the movie or change significant things about her.

1380
01:22:26,000 --> 01:22:27,400
Speaker 3: There were a number of girls on the team I

1381
01:22:27,439 --> 01:22:30,120
Speaker 3: wanted to know more about and didn't. And yeah, the

1382
01:22:30,240 --> 01:22:35,240
Speaker 3: lack of cultural specificity felt very I don't know, indicative

1383
01:22:35,280 --> 01:22:37,320
Speaker 3: of what Disney Channel was about at the time, even

1384
01:22:37,360 --> 01:22:40,680
Speaker 3: when they were producing movies like Gotta Kick It Up,

1385
01:22:40,680 --> 01:22:44,479
Speaker 3: which is that it seems like the undercurrent for Disney then,

1386
01:22:44,760 --> 01:22:48,400
Speaker 3: and you could also still say Disney now is that

1387
01:22:48,520 --> 01:22:54,120
Speaker 3: they are assuming whiteness of their audience, and so they're

1388
01:22:54,200 --> 01:22:58,240
Speaker 3: assuming that you wouldn't care about more cultural specificity, which

1389
01:22:58,280 --> 01:22:59,840
Speaker 3: first of all is not true and second of all

1390
01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:05,320
Speaker 3: is deeply white centric and reductive. I'm going to give

1391
01:23:05,360 --> 01:23:09,040
Speaker 3: this maybe three nipples on nostalgia points, and because I

1392
01:23:09,200 --> 01:23:13,000
Speaker 3: do genuinely believe it led to better representation down the line,

1393
01:23:13,040 --> 01:23:16,960
Speaker 3: because it was so successful. I'm going to give one

1394
01:23:17,040 --> 01:23:21,320
Speaker 3: nipple to Daisy, She's the best. I'm going to give

1395
01:23:21,439 --> 01:23:24,800
Speaker 3: a second nipple to Yoli because in my memory she

1396
01:23:24,960 --> 01:23:28,320
Speaker 3: was the protagonist and turned out not to be. And

1397
01:23:29,360 --> 01:23:32,840
Speaker 3: my final nipple. I'm going to give to a scene

1398
01:23:32,880 --> 01:23:35,519
Speaker 3: that made me laugh so much, the scene where the

1399
01:23:35,600 --> 01:23:40,760
Speaker 3: website guy comes to Missus house and says his website

1400
01:23:40,960 --> 01:23:45,000
Speaker 3: is huge gossip and news for teens. You could go

1401
01:23:45,120 --> 01:23:48,400
Speaker 3: to London, and I was like, what a speech. What

1402
01:23:50,720 --> 01:23:55,280
Speaker 3: a sick man who immediately doesn't matter? And those are

1403
01:23:55,360 --> 01:23:59,439
Speaker 3: my yeah, my nipples, Makita, what do you rate this?

1404
01:24:00,360 --> 01:24:01,439
Speaker 4: I will give it.

1405
01:24:02,240 --> 01:24:06,920
Speaker 5: I think two nipples, and I think they are mostly

1406
01:24:07,040 --> 01:24:11,599
Speaker 5: rooted in nostalgia, just for like, and I started off

1407
01:24:11,640 --> 01:24:16,760
Speaker 5: my piece very nostalgically, like just writing about like, you know,

1408
01:24:16,840 --> 01:24:22,040
Speaker 5: it's two thousand and two, like you're getting home after school,

1409
01:24:22,200 --> 01:24:25,920
Speaker 5: sitting on an inflatable like me on chair, you know,

1410
01:24:26,200 --> 01:24:29,960
Speaker 5: eating tricks, yogurt or whatever, and like this is just

1411
01:24:30,240 --> 01:24:34,639
Speaker 5: like these movies are just so associated with that specific

1412
01:24:34,720 --> 01:24:39,160
Speaker 5: time in my life, simpler times arguably, so I think

1413
01:24:39,320 --> 01:24:41,840
Speaker 5: there's like, you know, just you miss.

1414
01:24:41,880 --> 01:24:42,719
Speaker 4: Kind of that feeling.

1415
01:24:42,960 --> 01:24:47,559
Speaker 5: But in terms of actual representation, it is pretty lacking,

1416
01:24:47,880 --> 01:24:51,639
Speaker 5: I think it. To me, it sort of falls into

1417
01:24:51,720 --> 01:24:56,160
Speaker 5: this category of like checklist representation.

1418
01:24:56,160 --> 01:24:58,960
Speaker 4: Right, It's like, Okay, we have some.

1419
01:25:00,760 --> 01:25:04,920
Speaker 5: Vaguely Latina characters, We're not really going to go beyond

1420
01:25:04,960 --> 01:25:05,840
Speaker 5: the surface level.

1421
01:25:07,439 --> 01:25:12,959
Speaker 4: We like have some glimpses into their whole.

1422
01:25:12,840 --> 01:25:15,960
Speaker 5: Life, but obviously, as we've discussed, it's not super substantive.

1423
01:25:17,240 --> 01:25:20,679
Speaker 5: There's you know, one character who has who speaks English

1424
01:25:20,720 --> 01:25:23,760
Speaker 5: as a second language, and there we go, like there's

1425
01:25:23,800 --> 01:25:26,799
Speaker 5: the movie guys, and I think it's sort of hoping,

1426
01:25:27,040 --> 01:25:28,960
Speaker 5: you know, as we've said, just hoping for a.

1427
01:25:28,960 --> 01:25:31,240
Speaker 4: Little bit more and then it never just arrives.

1428
01:25:32,360 --> 01:25:35,439
Speaker 5: I think it is definitely a product of the time,

1429
01:25:35,880 --> 01:25:40,320
Speaker 5: and unfortunately we just we meaning you know, latinas I'm

1430
01:25:40,360 --> 01:25:43,840
Speaker 5: multicultural myself, you know, that was something that I didn't

1431
01:25:43,920 --> 01:25:48,400
Speaker 5: see represented in media really at all, which is a

1432
01:25:48,439 --> 01:25:51,720
Speaker 5: conversation for another day. But like I think it was

1433
01:25:51,920 --> 01:25:55,120
Speaker 5: just like you're just so hungry for anything, so you

1434
01:25:56,640 --> 01:25:58,640
Speaker 5: you're happy with what you get, right, So all that

1435
01:25:58,760 --> 01:26:02,479
Speaker 5: being said, yeah, you're happy with the crumbs exactly, which

1436
01:26:02,600 --> 01:26:05,799
Speaker 5: is like so sad. But I know, the two solid stars,

1437
01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:09,439
Speaker 5: mostly for nostalgia's sake, I will give one to America Ferrera,

1438
01:26:09,720 --> 01:26:13,800
Speaker 5: because America Ferrera, and then I think I'll give one

1439
01:26:13,880 --> 01:26:18,519
Speaker 5: to actually Nancy de los Santos because you know, a

1440
01:26:18,640 --> 01:26:22,960
Speaker 5: fan of her work, especially Selena, and it's cool that

1441
01:26:23,080 --> 01:26:25,320
Speaker 5: she was involved in the project.

1442
01:26:26,400 --> 01:26:29,080
Speaker 2: I was surprised to learn that this movie was co

1443
01:26:29,320 --> 01:26:33,920
Speaker 2: written and directed both by Latine filmmakers.

1444
01:26:34,680 --> 01:26:37,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, and like already successful, Like we're not even catching

1445
01:26:37,800 --> 01:26:39,920
Speaker 3: them at the beginning of their career. Stand and Deliver

1446
01:26:40,040 --> 01:26:43,679
Speaker 3: came out fifteen years earlier. Yeah, and I mean it's

1447
01:26:43,840 --> 01:26:46,559
Speaker 3: cool and it feels like there is like a creative

1448
01:26:46,600 --> 01:26:49,960
Speaker 3: commitment because you wouldn't just you wouldn't simply make a

1449
01:26:50,120 --> 01:26:53,280
Speaker 3: d com if you were already very successful, unless you

1450
01:26:53,479 --> 01:26:58,120
Speaker 3: had a real love and investment in the material. Yeah,

1451
01:26:58,320 --> 01:27:01,760
Speaker 3: so I think it's amazing. Yeah, Maikita, thank you so

1452
01:27:01,920 --> 01:27:03,920
Speaker 3: much for joining us. This was so much fun.

1453
01:27:04,160 --> 01:27:05,639
Speaker 4: Thank you. This was great.

1454
01:27:06,080 --> 01:27:08,360
Speaker 3: Where can we find your work? Work? Can we find

1455
01:27:08,400 --> 01:27:10,600
Speaker 3: you on social media? How do we keep up with you?

1456
01:27:11,400 --> 01:27:15,040
Speaker 5: You can keep up with me primarily on Instagram these days.

1457
01:27:15,280 --> 01:27:19,439
Speaker 5: I'm at Rivas Raves. I am also.

1458
01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:21,680
Speaker 4: Contributing, as I mentioned Refinery twenty nine.

1459
01:27:21,760 --> 01:27:26,320
Speaker 5: So almos eater DC for my like Washington, DC folks,

1460
01:27:26,360 --> 01:27:28,439
Speaker 5: because I'm based in DC, so I cover the food

1461
01:27:28,520 --> 01:27:32,280
Speaker 5: scene here. But I you know, just I would say

1462
01:27:32,320 --> 01:27:34,800
Speaker 5: follow me on Instagram because that's usually where I try

1463
01:27:34,880 --> 01:27:36,120
Speaker 5: to share some of my work.

1464
01:27:36,400 --> 01:27:39,600
Speaker 3: Amazing. Yeah, thanks again for being here. Come back anytime.

1465
01:27:39,880 --> 01:27:40,519
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.

1466
01:27:40,600 --> 01:27:44,080
Speaker 5: Yes, I'm happy to talk early two thousands movies literally

1467
01:27:45,120 --> 01:27:46,679
Speaker 5: any moment of any day.

1468
01:27:47,000 --> 01:27:48,200
Speaker 4: So let me know.

1469
01:27:48,479 --> 01:27:50,160
Speaker 3: Just say the word, maybe we'll hear.

1470
01:27:51,920 --> 01:27:52,439
Speaker 4: I can't wait.

1471
01:27:52,760 --> 01:27:56,120
Speaker 2: And then you can follow us on mostly Instagram these

1472
01:27:56,200 --> 01:27:59,640
Speaker 2: days as well at Bechdelcast, as well as subscribe to

1473
01:27:59,680 --> 01:28:04,120
Speaker 2: our pagon aka Matreon at patreon dot com slash bectyl Cast,

1474
01:28:04,680 --> 01:28:07,280
Speaker 2: where you can get two bonus episodes every single month,

1475
01:28:07,320 --> 01:28:10,880
Speaker 2: plus access to our back catalog of well over one

1476
01:28:10,960 --> 01:28:15,040
Speaker 2: hundred bonus episodes, all for five dollars a month.

1477
01:28:16,000 --> 01:28:18,200
Speaker 3: And you can get our merch over at teapublic dot

1478
01:28:18,280 --> 01:28:23,240
Speaker 3: com slash the Bechdel Cast get your weird Halloween merch.

1479
01:28:23,640 --> 01:28:29,479
Speaker 3: Oh beetlejuice declaring definitively, do you think beetlejuice comes? Wet

1480
01:28:29,560 --> 01:28:33,600
Speaker 3: scabs or dry scabs? One of our grossest ideas and

1481
01:28:33,720 --> 01:28:34,599
Speaker 3: we turned it into.

1482
01:28:34,479 --> 01:28:36,840
Speaker 2: Burdis And now is the time to buy it?

1483
01:28:38,520 --> 01:28:41,080
Speaker 3: Now the time to and now's where you stand in

1484
01:28:41,200 --> 01:28:44,960
Speaker 3: the Infinity war, that is what does beetlejuice come?

1485
01:28:45,600 --> 01:28:45,760
Speaker 1: Well?

1486
01:28:45,920 --> 01:28:47,320
Speaker 3: Well, good note to end on.

1487
01:28:47,479 --> 01:28:53,080
Speaker 2: I should we all get together and learn a dance routine.

1488
01:28:53,439 --> 01:28:55,120
Speaker 2: I'm down twin regionals.

1489
01:28:55,240 --> 01:28:58,400
Speaker 4: Should we all learn as bartlets? Dance routine that caused

1490
01:28:58,439 --> 01:28:59,080
Speaker 4: her to cry?

1491
01:29:01,880 --> 01:29:04,000
Speaker 3: I was like, I only will do a dance routine

1492
01:29:04,040 --> 01:29:08,280
Speaker 3: if I am allowed to weep in gymnasium afterwards. That's

1493
01:29:08,439 --> 01:29:11,439
Speaker 3: where I'm most comfortable. So yes, I'm sorry, let's do it.

1494
01:29:12,120 --> 01:29:12,559
Speaker 2: Bye bye