Caitlin Murray: Welcome back to She Pivots. I'm Caitlin Murray this week.
Emily Tisch Sussman: I'm delighted to have Kaitlin Murray on the show, though
Emily Tisch Sussman: most of you know her by her Instagram handle Big
Emily Tisch Sussman: Time Adulting. I first found Caitlin's account during the pandemic
Emily Tisch Sussman: when I felt like I was losing my mind. Her
Emily Tisch Sussman: content was exactly what I needed to know that I
Emily Tisch Sussman: wasn't alone. When I found out that she had an
Emily Tisch Sussman: amazing pivot story, I knew I wanted to have her
Emily Tisch Sussman: on the show. Plus, she is hilarious many of us moms.
Emily Tisch Sussman: Caitlyn left her job from Eternity Leave, planning to ease
Emily Tisch Sussman: back in slowly after having her third baby. After all,
Emily Tisch Sussman: she had worked when she had the first two. But
Emily Tisch Sussman: then everything changed when her oldest was diagnosed with leukemia
Emily Tisch Sussman: and she knew she needed to pivot to stay home
Emily Tisch Sussman: full time amidst all of the pain. Caitlyn began writing.
Emily Tisch Sussman: From there, she decided to start sharing her life online.
Emily Tisch Sussman: Now with over a million followers, Caitlyn has redefined what
Emily Tisch Sussman: success means to her several times over, and I can't
Emily Tisch Sussman: wait for you all to hear her story and become
Emily Tisch Sussman: as obsessed with her as I am enjoy.
Caitlin Murray: My name is Caitlin Murray and I am a content creator,
Caitlin Murray: a writer, and a mom.
Emily Tisch Sussman: Okay, so we are going to go in chronologic orders.
Emily Tisch Sussman: We're going to back up. We're going to go little Caitlin.
Emily Tisch Sussman: Oh wow, Yeah, we're like really gonna go take me
Emily Tisch Sussman: back and yeah, yeah, we're really going going back. What
Emily Tisch Sussman: did you like get me in the headspace? Where are
Emily Tisch Sussman: you in your sibling order? Like, what did you think
Emily Tisch Sussman: you were going to be when you grew up?
Caitlin Murray: I was the second of two children. I have one
Caitlin Murray: older brother. I am from Massachusetts. I like to say
Caitlin Murray: I am from southeastern Massachusetts. I've lived like all over
Caitlin Murray: the south shore of Massachusetts. I grew up on Cape
Caitlin Murray: Cod a little bit. We started just being there in
Caitlin Murray: the summers. Then my family moved to our house that
Caitlin Murray: we spent summers in, and I went to school on
Caitlin Murray: Cape Cod full time. And then my parents separated when
Caitlin Murray: I was in like the eighth grade, and I went
Caitlin Murray: to boarding school, and then my parents moved off of
Caitlin Murray: the Cape to two different towns, one easton one in Plymouth, Massachusetts.
Caitlin Murray: So that's like where I'm from. And my brother and
Caitlin Murray: my family all live in Massachusetts. Still and I live
Caitlin Murray: in New York, and my childhood was it was great,
Caitlin Murray: pretty average, except for my parents' separation and divorce that
Caitlin Murray: iube was pretty devastating for me and kind of felt
Caitlin Murray: like it came out of nowhere.
Emily Tisch Sussman: I think, especially with three kids, I more and more
Emily Tisch Sussman: begin to think that a sibling birth order is so formative.
Emily Tisch Sussman: Do you think it was for you or do you
Emily Tisch Sussman: think any of those experiences were so much more formative
Emily Tisch Sussman: for you.
Caitlin Murray: It's so funny because in my house, with my nuclear
Caitlin Murray: family here now, I feel like my kids are like
Caitlin Murray: to a te birth order stereotypical. But in my house
Caitlin Murray: growing up, it was different. My brother was more of
Caitlin Murray: like the rule breaker, sort of rebel between the two
Caitlin Murray: of us, and then I was definitely, I think, just
Caitlin Murray: maybe as a reaction to that, like a more people
Caitlin Murray: pleaser type kiddo, sort of stayed between the lines. If
Caitlin Murray: you can imagine, never got in trouble played by the
Caitlin Murray: book What did you think you were going to be
Caitlin Murray: when you I mean, what didn't I think I was
Caitlin Murray: going to be when I grew up. I was going
Caitlin Murray: to be maybe like an actress. I was going to
Caitlin Murray: be the president. I was going to be a teacher,
Caitlin Murray: a million things. You know, I didn't really have any
Caitlin Murray: hard and fast visions, but yeah, I'm none of those
Caitlin Murray: things now.
Emily Tisch Sussman: So you were pretty well rounded.
Caitlin Murray: I suppose thank you for saying that. Yeah, I did
Caitlin Murray: have a variety of interests. I still do. I still
Caitlin Murray: really do.
Emily Tisch Sussman: Early on, Caitlyn didn't put much weight on her career.
Emily Tisch Sussman: She thought she'd get married, have kids, and stay home,
Emily Tisch Sussman: and things started to fall into place when she met
Emily Tisch Sussman: her husband, Michael.
Caitlin Murray: I met my husband in college. We went to Middlebury
Caitlin Murray: up in Vermont. He was from New York, and so
Caitlin Murray: after graduation we were together, but like, our relationship was
Caitlin Murray: a rocky place at that time. We were just up
Caitlin Murray: and down and we were doing a lot of some
Caitlin Murray: breaking up and making up and thing. But I just
Caitlin Murray: wanted like a new experience and a couple of friends,
Caitlin Murray: and I decided to move to New York. And the
Caitlin Murray: rest is kind of history, because my husband and I
Caitlin Murray: did end up blocking it in like several years later,
Caitlin Murray: after exploring if we were really right for each other
Caitlin Murray: or not. And I've been in New York ever since.
Caitlin Murray: You guys are still together.
Emily Tisch Sussman: I feel like people don't generally think those are going
Emily Tisch Sussman: to work out those relationships that are like up and down.
Emily Tisch Sussman: Did you think that it was not going to work out?
Caitlin Murray: I think that there was a period of time in
Caitlin Murray: my early twenties after graduation that I wasn't sure. But
Caitlin Murray: there was like a pretty distinctive breakup that we ended
Caitlin Murray: up when when we got back together, felt very different
Caitlin Murray: and like our relationship had turned our real corner in
Caitlin Murray: terms of like its maturity level. And at that point
Caitlin Murray: I knew that he would be the one. But when
Caitlin Murray: we first started dating, which was a scandal because I
Caitlin Murray: had a boyfriend at the time, he was such a
Caitlin Murray: good friend of mine. He was like my best friend
Caitlin Murray: at the time, and I thought this guy could easily
Caitlin Murray: be my husband because I just enjoy him so much.
Caitlin Murray: I still feel that way.
Emily Tisch Sussman: What do you think felt different when you guys got
Emily Tisch Sussman: back together, Like what had changed?
Caitlin Murray: Yeah, you know, we were both from parents who whose
Caitlin Murray: marriages were not successful, so I think that we had
Caitlin Murray: a lot of reservations about, you know, being super realistic
Caitlin Murray: about who was right for us and making sure of
Caitlin Murray: that before deciding to actually get married, and was almost
Caitlin Murray: like quite cynical about that selection process. I mean, I
Caitlin Murray: feel like even then I was I sort of understood
Caitlin Murray: marriages about finding the person that drives you the least crazy,
Caitlin Murray: Like they're going to still drive you crazy, because everyone's
Caitlin Murray: going to drive you crazy, but the person who will
Caitlin Murray: like not make you be crazy yere, And so I
Caitlin Murray: think I went into it was like a really solid
Caitlin Murray: understanding that marriage is hard.
Emily Tisch Sussman: Yeah, that's totally fair. And how much did you think
Emily Tisch Sussman: about having kids? How many kids? Like, how central was
Emily Tisch Sussman: that to your thinking about what your life was going
Emily Tisch Sussman: to look like? And did you make decisions around it.
Caitlin Murray: I always wanted three kids because I had only one brother,
Caitlin Murray: and I always was super curious as to what a
Caitlin Murray: family of three or more would look like. I think
Caitlin Murray: I always wished I had one more sibling or that
Caitlin Murray: kind of thing, and just to see what that family
Caitlin Murray: dynamic would be like. So it was sort of this
Caitlin Murray: goal in my mind to get to three. But holy shit,
Caitlin Murray: after I had won, I was like, to do this,
Caitlin Murray: it's crazy. I didn't know this was going to be
Caitlin Murray: so hard, And so that was a real slap in
Caitlin Murray: the face. Eye opener. And my husband's cousin would say,
Caitlin Murray: kids are like crack. You have one and then you
Caitlin Murray: kind of want to have another, even though it's like
Caitlin Murray: for you.
Emily Tisch Sussman: What were you doing professionally at the time. Did you
Emily Tisch Sussman: feel like that was a real focus for you, equally
Emily Tisch Sussman: to trying to figure out how to have three kids.
Caitlin Murray: Professionally At that time, before having kids and while dating
Caitlin Murray: and at the beginning of my marriage, I was working
Caitlin Murray: or actually I stopped working at this place right before
Caitlin Murray: I got married, or as around the time I got engaged,
Caitlin Murray: because I was working for this company that raised money
Caitlin Murray: for charities based out of Ireland, and all of the
Caitlin Murray: way that we did that was through hosting large events,
Caitlin Murray: and all of the events and opportunities to entertain donors
Caitlin Murray: and be at parties all of the time and be
Caitlin Murray: traveling to other parties in different places was never going
Caitlin Murray: to be conducive to a mother of young children. So
Caitlin Murray: I was kind of like, I got to wrap this
Caitlin Murray: up and find a job that is going to be
Caitlin Murray: a little bit more friendly to motherhood because I really
Caitlin Murray: knew that I wanted kids, and I kind of figured
Caitlin Murray: like I would go like a very vanilla traditional path
Caitlin Murray: about it, where I was like, I'll get married and
Caitlin Murray: then I'll wait a year, and then I'll start trying
Caitlin Murray: to have kids, and I'll have a kid, and then
Caitlin Murray: all have another kid two years after that, and but
Caitlin Murray: like I had it all planned out in my mind
Caitlin Murray: what I thought was going to be, which is of
Caitlin Murray: course never how it all turns out.
Emily Tisch Sussman: So what you're describing right now, I think is a
Emily Tisch Sussman: lot of what we talk about, which is changing your
Emily Tisch Sussman: version of success. Yes, that your version of success in
Emily Tisch Sussman: that job, it sounds like, was being successful in the
Emily Tisch Sussman: metrics of the job, raising money, putting on a bends,
Emily Tisch Sussman: being present, all of that, and as your personal life evolved,
Emily Tisch Sussman: like as your personal life changed, it was no longer
Emily Tisch Sussman: meeting your your metric of success.
Caitlin Murray: Yeah, I mean in that sense, I will say quite
Caitlin Murray: honestly that I don't think I ever took that career
Caitlin Murray: path of mine and even the job that I got
Caitlin Murray: after that to continue working to too seriously, because in
Caitlin Murray: my mind I was going to become probably a stay
Caitlin Murray: at home mom. So when I became pregnant with my
Caitlin Murray: first child, in my mind, I was like, that's it,
Caitlin Murray: I'm going to become a stay at home mom. I've
Caitlin Murray: been I've been ready for this, I've been this is
Caitlin Murray: what I've been thinking I wanted to do, And then
Caitlin Murray: when the baby came, I was like, holy shit, I
Caitlin Murray: want to go back to the office. This is so hard,
Caitlin Murray: you know. I was so jealous of my husband, who
Caitlin Murray: would be able to like skip out the front door
Caitlin Murray: and go get a coffee and like go to the
Caitlin Murray: bathroom by himself and eat lunch and shit like that.
Caitlin Murray: And I was like, oh my god, this like is
Caitlin Murray: so different from what I imagined it would be. I
Caitlin Murray: can't even begin to describe how duped I feel right now, honestly.
Caitlin Murray: And I had this conversation with my boss before I
Caitlin Murray: left to have the baby, and I was really honest
Caitlin Murray: and I said, you know, I don't want to trick
Caitlin Murray: you into thinking that I'm going to come back after
Caitlin Murray: a maternity leave or something. And she was like, Kaitlyn,
Caitlin Murray: take your maternity leave, and if you decide at the
Caitlin Murray: end of that that you don't want to come back,
Caitlin Murray: I will be totally okay with that, but you might
Caitlin Murray: feel differently, like just take my word for it. And
Caitlin Murray: she was like, we can restructure your like let you
Caitlin Murray: come in on a part time basis. And that's what
Caitlin Murray: I actually ended up doing. I went to down just
Caitlin Murray: three days a week in the office, and I was
Caitlin Murray: so grateful for her for leaving that option open for me.
Caitlin Murray: That I didn't anticipate wanting to use. And it was
Caitlin Murray: a real like a mental saving grace for me to
Caitlin Murray: have that. By the time, like I went back on
Caitlin Murray: maternity leave, I thought, like you would think I would
Caitlin Murray: just be like crying, like, oh my god, I can't
Caitlin Murray: leave my baby. I was skipping down my walkway to
Caitlin Murray: get out the door to work. Now. Granted, like I knew,
Caitlin Murray: I was also being part time and I would have
Caitlin Murray: time home with the baby, so I was very lucky
Caitlin Murray: to have that set of circumstances, but I was really
Caitlin Murray: shocked to feel the way that I felt. It was
Caitlin Murray: a definitely like turned my world upside down moment. So
Caitlin Murray: after I left that job that was like the fast
Caitlin Murray: paced party life, and I went to work in a
Caitlin Murray: different fundraising capacity but in a school, and I was
Caitlin Murray: dealing with high and neet worse individuals doing fundraising there,
Caitlin Murray: and it was a very like much more structured like
Caitlin Murray: work life friendly environment. It was not these lavish party situations.
Caitlin Murray: It was very PG everything, PGPC everything, and it was
Caitlin Murray: great for like the purpose that it served at that
Caitlin Murray: time of my life. But I was not passionate about
Caitlin Murray: where I was or what I was doing, and there
Caitlin Murray: came a point in time, but something's happened in my
Caitlin Murray: life that made it very clear that I needed to
Caitlin Murray: be more at home.
Emily Tisch Sussman: When we come back, we hear how Caitlin's life was
Emily Tisch Sussman: turned upside down in a blink of an eye. After
Emily Tisch Sussman: finally finding her footing back at work, Caitlin received news
Emily Tisch Sussman: that no mother wants to hear.
Caitlin Murray: So I had my first two while I was working there,
Caitlin Murray: when my oldest was three and my middle at the time,
Caitlin Murray: who was my youngest, was only one. My oldest was
Caitlin Murray: diagnosed with leukemia and that ended up obviously turning my
Caitlin Murray: whole world upside down. And the place where I worked
Caitlin Murray: was wonderful about that situation for me, and they allowed
Caitlin Murray: me to kind of like restructure my job however I
Caitlin Murray: wanted it to be at the time working from home
Caitlin Murray: as much as I needed or wanted indefinitely. And this
Caitlin Murray: was well before the pandemic, and working from home was
Caitlin Murray: like not as normalized as it is now, which was
Caitlin Murray: so nice. But this was a long process. My son
Caitlin Murray: was in treatment for over three years, and during time
Caitlin Murray: I also became pregnant with our third child, and he
Caitlin Murray: was born in May of twenty nineteen, and at that time,
Caitlin Murray: my oldest who was still in treatment, was well enough
Caitlin Murray: to go back to school, but was still super fragile
Caitlin Murray: and would have to go to the hospital right away
Caitlin Murray: if he had a fever because he had a port
Caitlin Murray: in his chest, and I really needed to be readily
Caitlin Murray: available and on call, and I couldn't be commuting into
Caitlin Murray: the city. We were living out in the suburbs at
Caitlin Murray: that time. We still live out in the verbs, but
Caitlin Murray: I needed to be there immediately if he were to
Caitlin Murray: get sick, and especially if he had become febrile. So
Caitlin Murray: I took that as my queue to exit the structured
Caitlin Murray: working world as it were. And that was really hard.
Caitlin Murray: Even though I wasn't like super dedicated to my job
Caitlin Murray: and that career per se, it was something that was
Caitlin Murray: mine that was not about being a mom, and it
Caitlin Murray: was like this wonderful escape for me to just be
Caitlin Murray: working and doing something outside of my role as mom
Caitlin Murray: and caregiver. And to give that up felt like I
Caitlin Murray: was leaving this whole like part of my identity for
Caitlin Murray: grabs or just like a side and giving, you know,
Caitlin Murray: sort of giving up on that part of me. But
Caitlin Murray: it and that's where that whole redefinition of success really
Caitlin Murray: came into play, and I had to really focus on
Caitlin Murray: the fact that my most important and valued place at
Caitlin Murray: that time was with my kids. And you know, it
Caitlin Murray: was my honor to be there for my son when
Caitlin Murray: he was sick, and I would do it a thousand
Caitlin Murray: million times over. But for me personally, it did feel
Caitlin Murray: like I was making a deeper sacrifice of myself because
Caitlin Murray: even though that job wasn't what I wanted, I knew
Caitlin Murray: I wanted more personally for like a deeper sense of fulfillment.
Emily Tisch Sussman: You talk about this identity shift like that you can
Emily Tisch Sussman: both things can be true. You can want to be
Emily Tisch Sussman: home with your kids and you had always wanted it,
Emily Tisch Sussman: and you can be sad about that loss of identity
Emily Tisch Sussman: for yourself. To me, like, I'm guessing this, but your
Emily Tisch Sussman: identity probably became your external identity. Probably became even more
Emily Tisch Sussman: merged with your family life than an average mom who
Emily Tisch Sussman: would step away from her and be with her kids,
Emily Tisch Sussman: because you became like the mom of the kid with cancer. Yeah,
Emily Tisch Sussman: I was fully part of who I was and what
Emily Tisch Sussman: I had to be doing at the time. And this
Emily Tisch Sussman: is where the huge part that I didn't expect and
Emily Tisch Sussman: didn't envision came fully into play in my life was,
Emily Tisch Sussman: which was that I didn't want to be the full
Emily Tisch Sussman: time stay at home mom. Like but this is where
Emily Tisch Sussman: women have such a get the short end of the
Emily Tisch Sussman: stick all of the time, because men don't have to
Emily Tisch Sussman: feel that guilt about not being there for and with
Emily Tisch Sussman: the kids, Like it is just a given that they
Emily Tisch Sussman: will be working. It's always a given for them, and
Emily Tisch Sussman: there's no question of who's going to if they're going
Emily Tisch Sussman: to be the ones to stay home, or if you're
Emily Tisch Sussman: going to get help or what it's it's always on
Emily Tisch Sussman: what's what is the woman going to do right? And
Emily Tisch Sussman: there's always.
Caitlin Murray: Something that you have to set aside in any scenario.
Caitlin Murray: I mean, unless you were like just fully in love
Caitlin Murray: with being home with your kids and it works for
Caitlin Murray: your family and the financial structure of your family, then
Caitlin Murray: I'm like, oh my god, you're so lucky that you
Caitlin Murray: don't have to feel the torment of being there but
Caitlin Murray: kind of not wanting to be there, but knowing that
Caitlin Murray: it's important for you to be there and that it's
Caitlin Murray: a valuable job and the hardest job and all of that.
Emily Tisch Sussman: To sort through her complicated emotions around it all, Caitlin
Emily Tisch Sussman: turned to writing and started a blog.
Caitlin Murray: At the beginning, it definitely felt really heavy, and it
Caitlin Murray: was heavy. There were a period of months where I
Caitlin Murray: honestly just like did not really feel like joking or
Caitlin Murray: laughing or didn't feel like I was able to access
Caitlin Murray: a lot of joy at that time. But what I
Caitlin Murray: had started doing fairly early on in my son's treatment
Caitlin Murray: process was writing to family and friends about not just
Caitlin Murray: like updates, but something more anecdotal, and I would talk
Caitlin Murray: about our lives altogether, what I was going through mentally
Caitlin Murray: as a mom at that time, and I was able
Caitlin Murray: to touch on and tap into humor there and really
Caitlin Murray: like let some stuff rip in my writing. That felt
Caitlin Murray: so good to be able to say, because I felt
Caitlin Murray: like I was still honoring, like the hard parts of
Caitlin Murray: what we were going through and then able to just
Caitlin Murray: get a little release and take the edge off a
Caitlin Murray: little bit with the humor. And little by little I
Caitlin Murray: continued to really tap into that and lean on it
Caitlin Murray: a lot as a coping mechanism for what we were
Caitlin Murray: going through. And it's one of those things where now
Caitlin Murray: on my Instagram account, all I do is make fun
Caitlin Murray: of kids and the challenges and the struggles of what
Caitlin Murray: it really is like being a parent. And it's not
Caitlin Murray: about the cancer stuff like it's about the every day,
Caitlin Murray: the mundane. It's stuff that I felt from the very
Caitlin Murray: beginning of becoming a mom. But I didn't know that
Caitlin Murray: it was like okay to talk about that stuff until
Caitlin Murray: I had started going through this difficult situation with my son,
Caitlin Murray: and I got through that. And I don't know if
Caitlin Murray: this is an expletive free podcast, but today it's not
Caitlin Murray: because I really didn't give a fuck about what anyone
Caitlin Murray: felt or thought or said about what I had to
Caitlin Murray: say about what it was like to be a mom,
Caitlin Murray: and that at that time, because I was really in
Caitlin Murray: the trenches and I knew my worth and my value
Caitlin Murray: as a mom, I had a lot of conviction in that.
Emily Tisch Sussman: Going through those really tough moments. Obviously you would never
Emily Tisch Sussman: wish it upon anybody, but going through tough moments like
Emily Tisch Sussman: that really does make you tougher to criticism because you
Emily Tisch Sussman: really truly give a fuck less what people think and
Emily Tisch Sussman: like how you process it, because you're like I made it,
Emily Tisch Sussman: like I made it through or I'm making it right now,
Emily Tisch Sussman: and so I'm really uninterested in how you judge me
Emily Tisch Sussman: in it.
Caitlin Murray: Yeah, it's very freeing in a lot of ways of
Caitlin Murray: so many things, you know, in a way that I
Caitlin Murray: can't say that I always am good about this, but
Caitlin Murray: not getting bogged down as much by little things, or
Caitlin Murray: really appreciating and finding a ton of gratitude in the
Caitlin Murray: little things, which goes along with I think the like
Caitlin Murray: not caring about the things that aren't that important, such
Caitlin Murray: as someone else's opinion of you when it's not hurtful,
Caitlin Murray: you know, like when you're not like hurting anyone or
Caitlin Murray: doing something like what does it matter what you think?
Caitlin Murray: I'm saying how I feel and I'm talking about my experience.
Caitlin Murray: You know, I'm not telling you how you need to feel.
Emily Tisch Sussman: And she does this masterfully on her Instagram account. She
Emily Tisch Sussman: showcases what's real and honest in a way that feels
Emily Tisch Sussman: both deeply unique and completely relatable. After the break, we
Emily Tisch Sussman: dive into how and why Caitlyn decided to transition her
Emily Tisch Sussman: blog over to social media. Welcome back to the show.
Emily Tisch Sussman: After a few years of blogging, Caitlyn found her way
Emily Tisch Sussman: to social media in a way might not expect through
Emily Tisch Sussman: the publishing industry.
Caitlin Murray: And that's when I actually ended up getting started with
Caitlin Murray: my Instagram account, which took me to a whole new
Caitlin Murray: career path in a wonderful way that was sort of
Caitlin Murray: born out of this really difficult experience that I was
Caitlin Murray: going through. But all this to say that, like, your
Caitlin Murray: life can totally change, and there's so much room for
Caitlin Murray: different careers and endeavors that you may never have expected
Caitlin Murray: that are completely outside of what you've been trained to
Caitlin Murray: do or have done throughout your life.
Emily Tisch Sussman: So when you made the transition, were people sending your
Emily Tisch Sussman: blog around?
Caitlin Murray: Like?
Emily Tisch Sussman: Did your blog start to go around as a public
Emily Tisch Sussman: platform and then you transitioned it to an Instagram account?
Emily Tisch Sussman: And why not use your name? When you started a bit?
Caitlin Murray: It did go around, but like very minimally, just like
Caitlin Murray: probably from a family friend network perspective, like it was
Caitlin Murray: definitely not reaching far and wide. And that is sort
Caitlin Murray: of what ended up propelling me to start my Instagram
Caitlin Murray: act out because a woman who lives in my town,
Caitlin Murray: who worked in the editing world for years, had seen
Caitlin Murray: it and asked if I would be interested in her
Caitlin Murray: showing it to her publisher, and I was like, this
Caitlin Murray: would be wonderful. I love writing, And the publisher sort
Caitlin Murray: of came back and was like, this writing is fine,
Caitlin Murray: She's fine, But like, this woman has no platform we're
Caitlin Murray: not going to give her a fucking book deal, you know,
Caitlin Murray: like scram And so then I kind of realized how
Caitlin Murray: that world works, and I was thinking, maybe I should
Caitlin Murray: take my show on the road, get on social media,
Caitlin Murray: and see if I can build a platform. So that's
Caitlin Murray: how I got that part started. And yeah, so the
Caitlin Murray: blogging and the emailing of our experience was not the
Caitlin Murray: thing that gained me an audience. Yeah.
Emily Tisch Sussman: So when you started the account really to be able
Emily Tisch Sussman: to give herself a platform for the blog to make
Emily Tisch Sussman: it a book, did you start it in the same space, like,
Emily Tisch Sussman: in the same headspace that you were saying, I'm trying
Emily Tisch Sussman: to use humor to get through this really hard cancer
Emily Tisch Sussman: moment because your content now is not related to it.
Emily Tisch Sussman: So did it evolve or was it always focused more
Emily Tisch Sussman: on your experience in the every day Yeah?
Caitlin Murray: I think. And I didn't answer the part you asked,
Caitlin Murray: why didn't I use my name? I had gone back
Caitlin Murray: and forth on that. I'm not sure why I didn't.
Caitlin Murray: Sometimes I wish that I did use my name, but
Caitlin Murray: I had just named my blog Big Time Adulting, even
Caitlin Murray: when I was just sending it to family and friends,
Caitlin Murray: and I just stuck with it. I just thought that
Caitlin Murray: some of the other mom accounts that I had seen
Caitlin Murray: on Instagram had like names, not their name, but like
Caitlin Murray: fucking names I don't know whatever. So this was my
Caitlin Murray: name and that's what I went with and here we are.
Caitlin Murray: But yeah, the beginning, I wasn't quite sure about like
Caitlin Murray: what and how I was going to be sharing. But
Caitlin Murray: I think that I knew that I had a lot
Caitlin Murray: on my mind about just the day to day stuff,
Caitlin Murray: and that I was thinking all of these funny things
Caitlin Murray: about what my days are like and all the craziness
Caitlin Murray: that goes on in a day with little kids, and
Caitlin Murray: how easy it would be to make fun of them,
Caitlin Murray: and that people needed to know that kids should be
Caitlin Murray: made fun of more.
Emily Tisch Sussman: Yeah, I mean, I really can't be in to tell
Emily Tisch Sussman: you how many times my friend sent me your content
Emily Tisch Sussman: and they're like, Emily, this thing that you've been like
Emily Tisch Sussman: privately complaining to us about our in our text chain,
Emily Tisch Sussman: like she's actually saying it out loud. And I think
Emily Tisch Sussman: that you gave a lot of us like a permission
Emily Tisch Sussman: unlock to say yes, I can be like it's the
Emily Tisch Sussman: both things, like yes, I could be happy that I
Emily Tisch Sussman: have these kids and this is really hard and it's
Emily Tisch Sussman: okay for me to complain about it.
Caitlin Murray: Yeah, It's one of those things that you don't feel
Caitlin Murray: is okay to say when you first become a mom,
Caitlin Murray: because there's so much ingrained in us about what being
Caitlin Murray: a good mom looks like. And a lot of that
Caitlin Murray: I think goes back to like some deep seated, like
Caitlin Murray: patriarchal trauma that we have about like being a good
Caitlin Murray: wife and a mother and all that shit. And there's
Caitlin Murray: a lot of martyrdom in motherhood, you know, things that
Caitlin Murray: we say or do or don't do and kind of
Caitlin Murray: are willing to die on the proverbial cross for that
Caitlin Murray: are not really serving us. And so think that like
Caitlin Murray: when you're able to talk about this stuff, especially through
Caitlin Murray: like a humorous lens, because that always gives it, like
Caitlin Murray: it's much more palatable for the masses when you make
Caitlin Murray: it funny, you know that it breaks down a lot
Caitlin Murray: of those walls that we feel like we have up
Caitlin Murray: as moms, that we have to present a certain way
Caitlin Murray: or look a certain way as a mother or else
Caitlin Murray: you're a bad mom. And that's just not true, you know,
Caitlin Murray: because there's so much going on behind the scenes and
Caitlin Murray: behind the curtains that we're all experiencing and dealing with
Caitlin Murray: them or just thinking that we suck at this or whatever,
Caitlin Murray: and I was like, you know, I'm just going to
Caitlin Murray: put it out there and say all the things that
Caitlin Murray: I suck yet to everybody, for anyone who wants to hear.
Emily Tisch Sussman: It didn't take long for Caitlin's account to catch on
Emily Tisch Sussman: and go viral during COVID. As moms everywhere, we're looking
Emily Tisch Sussman: for anyone to talk honestly about what parenting was truly like,
Emily Tisch Sussman: and Caitlin filled that gap in the market flawlessly.
Caitlin Murray: I did have a lot of growth during COVID because
Caitlin Murray: I think that there was actually it was a highly
Caitlin Murray: relatable situation for me because we had done so much
Caitlin Murray: isolating and so much staying at home with our son
Caitlin Murray: while he was sick that I had a lot of
Caitlin Murray: this material was just stuff that I had been feeling
Caitlin Murray: and thinking along the way while I was cooped up
Caitlin Murray: with my kids. That was a completely not new situation
Caitlin Murray: for me at that point, and I was like, I've
Caitlin Murray: got material for days on this, and then it just
Caitlin Murray: became it was super relatable to the masses at that
Caitlin Murray: point too, So a lot of that stuff did go
Caitlin Murray: pretty viral. Good morning. Welcome back to the Shit Show.
Caitlin Murray: I'm Kaitlyn Murray with Big Time Adulting, live from one
Caitlin Murray: of the coronavirus hotspots in the nation. We'll come back
Caitlin Murray: to the shit Show. I'm Kaitlyn Murray with Big Time
Caitlin Murray: deuilting live here from the corner of my bedroom where
Caitlin Murray: I'm hiding from my children this week.
Emily Tisch Sussman: Had you been thinking as you create it like that
Emily Tisch Sussman: you were kind of tracking growth, like, were you tracking trends?
Emily Tisch Sussman: Were you really conscious about it or it was just
Emily Tisch Sussman: sort of a brain dump spot for you.
Caitlin Murray: I think a little of BOLF because I knew that
Caitlin Murray: I had to be sort of true to myself and
Caitlin Murray: authentic in my messaging if I wanted to be sustainable
Caitlin Murray: and consistent with it, because like you know, I just
Caitlin Murray: wanted to be able to show up every day like
Caitlin Murray: as I was I could, you know, I go on
Caitlin Murray: there no makeup, like woke up first thing looking like
Caitlin Murray: death warmed over and ready to just you know, diarrhea
Caitlin Murray: of the mouth, whatever it is that's at the top
Caitlin Murray: of my mind about the kids and the things that
Caitlin Murray: are happening in my house. So I knew that I
Caitlin Murray: had to be able to like make that happen every day.
Caitlin Murray: But part of that is because like the algorithm response
Caitlin Murray: to consistent, regular output of content, and that I was like,
Caitlin Murray: I can do that, but I just have to be
Caitlin Murray: able to show up as I am.
Emily Tisch Sussman: Was there one particular or a couple particular that really
Emily Tisch Sussman: went viral and you're like, Okay, we've hit something here.
Caitlin Murray: I think the first one that went viral was a
Caitlin Murray: video of me dancing with Luky strapped to the front
Caitlin Murray: of me to back that ass up in our kitchen,
Caitlin Murray: and it was like I had sunglasses on, he had
Caitlin Murray: sunglasses on, type saying, and the floor was covered in
Caitlin Murray: like markers and stuff. And I think it just was like,
Caitlin Murray: I don't know, if something it hit, it got shared
Caitlin Murray: by somebody who had a big account, and then it
Caitlin Murray: went all over. And then after that it was like
Caitlin Murray: drips and drabs of things that like performed well, like
Caitlin Murray: decent engagement, and then things that were like whoa that
Caitlin Murray: really got shared far and wide, And a few of
Caitlin Murray: those things were at the beginning of COVID for sure.
Caitlin Murray: But yeah, it's been a pretty like steady growth process throughout.
Caitlin Murray: I will say I did see some like immediate rewards
Caitlin Murray: within the first maybe five to eight months, I probably
Caitlin Murray: had like twenty thousand followers or something, and I was like, wow,
Caitlin Murray: that's growth. I can't believe I have twenty thousand followers
Caitlin Murray: on Instagram from spewing this shit in my kitchen, you know.
Emily Tisch Sussman: And so how do you think now about your parameters?
Emily Tisch Sussman: Like how do you structure your work? How do you
Emily Tisch Sussman: think about your parameters around your work and your home?
Emily Tisch Sussman: Like you're still you still have three pretty young kids.
Emily Tisch Sussman: It takes a lot of time, but you're very successful.
Caitlin Murray: Well thanks. I feel like a chicken with my head
Caitlin Murray: cut off, like all of the time pretty much. I
Caitlin Murray: don't have a ton of help, Like I only have
Caitlin Murray: my babysitter. I'm very particular about like how much people
Caitlin Murray: how much I want other people around, Like I really
Caitlin Murray: prefer to be alone. I have a babysitter a couple
Caitlin Murray: afternoons a week pretty much, and then if needed, when
Caitlin Murray: I have like an event or something like that, I
Caitlin Murray: call it auxiliaries or call her back in or to
Caitlin Murray: get more help. But it is become a lot to
Caitlin Murray: handle because about a year and a half ago, I
Caitlin Murray: started taking my content and my work like much more
Caitlin Murray: seriously as a business, which was sort of part of
Caitlin Murray: the plan. I was sort of always playing a long
Caitlin Murray: game to wait till I got a certain size of
Caitlin Murray: an audience to start focusing more on the business aspect
Caitlin Murray: of what I was doing. I never wanted to be
Caitlin Murray: like an influencer in the very traditional sense, like kind
Caitlin Murray: of selling other products or doing a lot of brand
Caitlin Murray: deals and that kind of thing. I do some of
Caitlin Murray: that stuff, and it's great to monetize all the work
Caitlin Murray: that I put into this, which is it's really cool
Caitlin Murray: to be able to do that, but that's not like
Caitlin Murray: my long term goal. So I was always sort of
Caitlin Murray: playing a long game, and I had the privilege to
Caitlin Murray: do that because my husband was always the breadwinner and
Caitlin Murray: he was able to support us while I was kind
Caitlin Murray: of doing this as like a let's see what happens
Caitlin Murray: type thing. But now it's become a full on business
Caitlin Murray: and a lot of work, and it's my life is
Caitlin Murray: super busy and crazy, but I feel like every mom's
Caitlin Murray: life is super busy and crazy, so I'm just like
Caitlin Murray: everybody else. And to be honest, I shouldn't even say that,
Caitlin Murray: because I really adore being able to do what I'm doing.
Caitlin Murray: It feels like so much fun, it's so much fun.
Caitlin Murray: What do you think your version of success is? Right now?
Caitlin Murray: That's such a good question. I keep like changing my
Caitlin Murray: mind on that. I think that what I have always
Caitlin Murray: felt is when I started this that I truly did
Caitlin Murray: want to monetize it in a very meaningful way, like
Caitlin Murray: at the beginning. But I didn't do anything to monetize
Caitlin Murray: it for quite a while. But I think that that's
Caitlin Murray: also one of those things it's like important to say.
Caitlin Murray: Even though I didn't know what would happen, it was
Caitlin Murray: sort of like a little bit like throwing shit against
Caitlin Murray: the wall to see what sticks at first, and what
Caitlin Murray: is this and what am I doing? I did feel
Caitlin Murray: deep down that I wanted to turn it into something
Caitlin Murray: big and I wanted it to be successful monetarily, and
Caitlin Murray: I still feel that way, And I feel like women
Caitlin Murray: don't always say that that they're like hoping to make
Caitlin Murray: a lot of money what they're doing right and what
Caitlin Murray: they're putting their time and effort into. So that was
Caitlin Murray: always definitely a goal for me. My version of success,
Caitlin Murray: I think, would be to build a business, a real
Caitlin Murray: substantial business of my own, and make it successful through
Caitlin Murray: using my audience, you know, as a consumer. For whatever
Caitlin Murray: that is. It has to be something that's like definitely
Caitlin Murray: really meaningful to me that I'm going to be willing
Caitlin Murray: to talk about and sell and that kind of thing.
Caitlin Murray: So I haven't quite figured. There's a lot of like
Caitlin Murray: balls in the air and ideas and irons and the fire.
Caitlin Murray: So it's kind of waiting and narrowing some things down.
Emily Tisch Sussman: Do you come back to that book idea now that
Emily Tisch Sussman: you actually did build the audience?
Caitlin Murray: So I am writing a book right now. Also, I
Caitlin Murray: have a book deal and I have another year to
Caitlin Murray: finish it, But I like have not talked about it
Caitlin Murray: that much because I don't want to get sick of
Caitlin Murray: hearing myself talk about it. But the book that I
Caitlin Murray: am writing right now is a collection of short stories,
Caitlin Murray: which is just perfect for me, and I feel like
Caitlin Murray: it's also really great for my audience, who are you know,
Caitlin Murray: pretty much all moms that don't have a lot of
Caitlin Murray: time necessarily to sit and read a huge book, and
Caitlin Murray: that they can take these little, like bite sized stories
Caitlin Murray: and read one before bed or something like that. But yeah,
Caitlin Murray: I think I just felt that during the process of
Caitlin Murray: writing to my friends and family about what was going
Caitlin Murray: on with my son, that I was super therapeutic and
Caitlin Murray: I was finding a ton of joy and outlet in
Caitlin Murray: that process, and that I loved doing it and thought
Caitlin Murray: that I would love to one day maybe write a
Caitlin Murray: book if I were given the opportunity.
Emily Tisch Sussman: We had chatted a little while ago and you had
Emily Tisch Sussman: said something to me about how you're not sure that this,
Emily Tisch Sussman: like you don't want to kind of bank on like
Emily Tisch Sussman: this being the thing forever.
Caitlin Murray: Yeah. Well, I think social media is just such a
Caitlin Murray: it's like the wild West, you know, like there it's
Caitlin Murray: lawless out here on social media. That's sort of what
Caitlin Murray: I what I mean when I was saying that I
Caitlin Murray: want to build a business that's like sustainable on its
Caitlin Murray: own without relying on me being on Instagram all day
Caitlin Murray: every day, which is something that I enjoy doing, but
Caitlin Murray: I want to just be able to do it just
Caitlin Murray: for enjoyment eventually. So in that sense that it's not
Caitlin Murray: like selling somebody else's product to rely on the way
Caitlin Murray: that you're monetizing it, Because if that's what you're doing,
Caitlin Murray: then you need to be reliant on social media, right,
Caitlin Murray: You're totally reliant on your audience and these brand deals
Caitlin Murray: coming to you. But if you build your own thing
Caitlin Murray: and you have your own product and you're able to.
Caitlin Murray: You do still want to obviously use your network or
Caitlin Murray: your social media network to put it out there and
Caitlin Murray: advertise for yourself, but that it would be like successful independently.
Emily Tisch Sussman: I also want to talk a little bit more about
Emily Tisch Sussman: your use of humor in dark times. It's something that
Emily Tisch Sussman: obviously has come from a very personal place for you,
Emily Tisch Sussman: and you've been quite successful at it. And I think
Emily Tisch Sussman: a lot of people right now are trying to figure out,
Emily Tisch Sussman: like feel like they're in a dark time. I feel
Emily Tisch Sussman: like I'm in a dark time. How do we use
Emily Tisch Sussman: humor or how do we access it? How do we
Emily Tisch Sussman: feel like it's acceptable to use? Yeah, it's funny. I
Emily Tisch Sussman: mean like I always feel like it's acceptable to use,
Emily Tisch Sussman: but not everybody feels that way, which I've learned over
Emily Tisch Sussman: the last week or so, Like you can't just some
Emily Tisch Sussman: people are just not always ready for a joke or whatever.
Emily Tisch Sussman: I mean within your personal circles and stuff. I think
Emily Tisch Sussman: it's like.
Caitlin Murray: You just let it fly, but there has to be
Caitlin Murray: a certain part of you if you want to be
Caitlin Murray: if you want to go without route, and that's like
Caitlin Murray: the person that you represent that has to stop fucking
Caitlin Murray: caring about what everybody thinks about what you're going to
Caitlin Murray: say all of the time. You just have to really
Caitlin Murray: follow what's right for you and use it when it
Caitlin Murray: feels like you're ready to. I did feel, like I said,
Caitlin Murray: there was a period of time where I didn't feel
Caitlin Murray: too funny about everything, but I did. I did get
Caitlin Murray: back into that. I did tap back into that, and
Caitlin Murray: I just I laugh and I joke, and I say,
Caitlin Murray: it's quite the defense mechanism that I use to shield
Caitlin Murray: myself from the real feelings. But I don't. I really
Caitlin Murray: do like to get deep about real feelings and stuff too.
Caitlin Murray: And I just think it's important to be able to laugh.
Caitlin Murray: And who doesn't want to laugh? Right? It's just feels
Caitlin Murray: so good totally.
Emily Tisch Sussman: What is something we look back at all this What
Emily Tisch Sussman: is something that at the time you thought it can
Emily Tisch Sussman: be the big thing, or can be something else that
Emily Tisch Sussman: you thought was really a negative, and now in retrospect
Emily Tisch Sussman: you see it as having really launched you into the
Emily Tisch Sussman: person that you are now.
Caitlin Murray: I think that when you're younger and before, maybe like
Caitlin Murray: things happened to you that allow you to have less
Caitlin Murray: fucks to give or something like that, you feel like
Caitlin Murray: you have you put a wall up and you don't
Caitlin Murray: show your vulnerable sides, and it's hard to like maybe
Caitlin Murray: a peer, it's not weak, but it may maybe in
Caitlin Murray: your mind feels like it's it would appear weak to
Caitlin Murray: be honest about your weaknesses and your vulnerabilities. And that
Caitlin Murray: I've really found, especially since starting my social media account,
Caitlin Murray: that talking about that stuff and where I feel like
Caitlin Murray: I have shortcomings and weaknesses or shame and stuff like
Caitlin Murray: that has really been the thing that's attracted people probably
Caitlin Murray: the most to me and my page, because I feel
Caitlin Murray: like I can be honest about my challenges and I'm
Caitlin Murray: okay with that, and I think that that's just like
Caitlin Murray: breaking down walls makes everybody feel better and that they
Caitlin Murray: can say how they really feel and not be judged
Caitlin Murray: and or feel censored and just to be themselves.
Emily Tisch Sussman: You know, they're so great. I think I told you
Emily Tisch Sussman: to Scalen. But when I was setting out to do
Emily Tisch Sussman: this podcast, I thought I needed an agent, so I went.
Emily Tisch Sussman: I met with like every agency, and they would put me
Emily Tisch Sussman: in the news division because they thought I was news
Emily Tisch Sussman: and the like. But you're not trying to be a
Emily Tisch Sussman: cable news host, so actually we don't know what to
Emily Tisch Sussman: do with you. And I was like no, I'm trying
Emily Tisch Sussman: to not be news. Yeah, and then I really didn't
Emily Tisch Sussman: know what to do with me because I know platform
Emily Tisch Sussman: that wasn't news. And in the process of everybody rejecting me,
Emily Tisch Sussman: I was like, Okay, actually I'm going to build it myself. Yeah,
Emily Tisch Sussman: like I'm going to do it myself because if they
Emily Tisch Sussman: can't see the vision, then actually I don't need them.
Caitlin Murray: Yeah. And I think that like we sort of doubt
Caitlin Murray: ourselves all of the time, like, oh, I don't know
Caitlin Murray: what I'm doing, I can't do this like every but
Caitlin Murray: people who do this know what they're doing or like
Caitlin Murray: they've done it before. They're getting professional advice and that
Caitlin Murray: kind of thing. And the really like the real truth
Caitlin Murray: is is that nobody really knows what they're doing at all.
Caitlin Murray: And if they think that they do, they they're probably wrong.
Caitlin Murray: You know. They probably are changing paths like left and
Caitlin Murray: right along the way. It's like you just have to
Caitlin Murray: go out and start and sort of figure it out
Caitlin Murray: for yourself. No one's coming to save you. You got
Caitlin Murray: to do it yourself. But totally thank you.
Emily Tisch Sussman: Caitlyn's been so great.
Caitlin Murray: Yeah, thanks guys, good to see you. Emily.
Emily Tisch Sussman: Caitlyn and her family live here on the East Coast,
Emily Tisch Sussman: and in between all the kids' activities, mom duties and
Emily Tisch Sussman: social media fame, she has also had time to host
Emily Tisch Sussman: a podcast. You can listen to her show, Big Time
Emily Tisch Sussman: Adulting anywhere you get podcasts. Plus, there's a very special
Emily Tisch Sussman: episode with yours truly, so be sure to give it
Emily Tisch Sussman: a listen. You can follow Caitlin on Instagram and TikTok
Emily Tisch Sussman: at Big Time Adulting talk to You next Week. Thanks
Emily Tisch Sussman: for listening to this episode of She Pivots. If you
Emily Tisch Sussman: made it this far, you're a true Pivoter, so thanks for.
Caitlin Murray: Being part of this community.
Emily Tisch Sussman: I hope you enjoyed this episode, and if you did
Emily Tisch Sussman: leave us a rating, please be nice. Tell your friends
Emily Tisch Sussman: about us. To learn more about our guests, follow us
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Emily Tisch Sussman: scenes content, or on our website She Pivots the Podcast
Emily Tisch Sussman: Talk to You Next Week special thanks to the she
Emily Tisch Sussman: Pivots team, Executive producer Emily Edavelosic, Associate producer and social
Emily Tisch Sussman: media connoisseur, Hannah Cousins, Research director Christine Dickinson, Events and
Emily Tisch Sussman: Logistics coordinator Madeline Snovak An audio editor and mixer Nina
Emily Tisch Sussman: Pollock