1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:33,240 Caitlin Murray: Welcome back to She Pivots. I'm Caitlin Murray this week. 2 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: I'm delighted to have Kaitlin Murray on the show, though 3 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: most of you know her by her Instagram handle Big 4 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:44,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: Time Adulting. I first found Caitlin's account during the pandemic 5 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:47,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: when I felt like I was losing my mind. Her 6 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:49,879 Emily Tisch Sussman: content was exactly what I needed to know that I 7 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:53,239 Emily Tisch Sussman: wasn't alone. When I found out that she had an 8 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:56,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: amazing pivot story, I knew I wanted to have her 9 00:00:56,040 --> 00:01:00,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: on the show. Plus, she is hilarious many of us moms. 10 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: Caitlyn left her job from Eternity Leave, planning to ease 11 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: back in slowly after having her third baby. After all, 12 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:10,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: she had worked when she had the first two. But 13 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:14,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: then everything changed when her oldest was diagnosed with leukemia 14 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: and she knew she needed to pivot to stay home 15 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: full time amidst all of the pain. Caitlyn began writing. 16 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:25,039 Emily Tisch Sussman: From there, she decided to start sharing her life online. 17 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: Now with over a million followers, Caitlyn has redefined what 18 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,959 Emily Tisch Sussman: success means to her several times over, and I can't 19 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:34,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: wait for you all to hear her story and become 20 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:41,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: as obsessed with her as I am enjoy. 21 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:46,520 Caitlin Murray: My name is Caitlin Murray and I am a content creator, 22 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:48,280 Caitlin Murray: a writer, and a mom. 23 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:50,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: Okay, so we are going to go in chronologic orders. 24 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: We're going to back up. We're going to go little Caitlin. 25 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:57,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: Oh wow, Yeah, we're like really gonna go take me 26 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: back and yeah, yeah, we're really going going back. What 27 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:04,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: did you like get me in the headspace? Where are 28 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: you in your sibling order? Like, what did you think 29 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:08,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: you were going to be when you grew up? 30 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,720 Caitlin Murray: I was the second of two children. I have one 31 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,440 Caitlin Murray: older brother. I am from Massachusetts. I like to say 32 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:21,280 Caitlin Murray: I am from southeastern Massachusetts. I've lived like all over 33 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,080 Caitlin Murray: the south shore of Massachusetts. I grew up on Cape 34 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,480 Caitlin Murray: Cod a little bit. We started just being there in 35 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,800 Caitlin Murray: the summers. Then my family moved to our house that 36 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,720 Caitlin Murray: we spent summers in, and I went to school on 37 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:36,119 Caitlin Murray: Cape Cod full time. And then my parents separated when 38 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,720 Caitlin Murray: I was in like the eighth grade, and I went 39 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:44,000 Caitlin Murray: to boarding school, and then my parents moved off of 40 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:49,440 Caitlin Murray: the Cape to two different towns, one easton one in Plymouth, Massachusetts. 41 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,120 Caitlin Murray: So that's like where I'm from. And my brother and 42 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:57,080 Caitlin Murray: my family all live in Massachusetts. Still and I live 43 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,480 Caitlin Murray: in New York, and my childhood was it was great, 44 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:04,320 Caitlin Murray: pretty average, except for my parents' separation and divorce that 45 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,480 Caitlin Murray: iube was pretty devastating for me and kind of felt 46 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:08,840 Caitlin Murray: like it came out of nowhere. 47 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,079 Emily Tisch Sussman: I think, especially with three kids, I more and more 48 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:17,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: begin to think that a sibling birth order is so formative. 49 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:19,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: Do you think it was for you or do you 50 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:22,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: think any of those experiences were so much more formative 51 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:22,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: for you. 52 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:27,600 Caitlin Murray: It's so funny because in my house, with my nuclear 53 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,840 Caitlin Murray: family here now, I feel like my kids are like 54 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:36,760 Caitlin Murray: to a te birth order stereotypical. But in my house 55 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:39,880 Caitlin Murray: growing up, it was different. My brother was more of 56 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:44,520 Caitlin Murray: like the rule breaker, sort of rebel between the two 57 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,320 Caitlin Murray: of us, and then I was definitely, I think, just 58 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,320 Caitlin Murray: maybe as a reaction to that, like a more people 59 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:54,880 Caitlin Murray: pleaser type kiddo, sort of stayed between the lines. If 60 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,680 Caitlin Murray: you can imagine, never got in trouble played by the 61 00:03:57,720 --> 00:03:59,760 Caitlin Murray: book What did you think you were going to be 62 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:02,760 Caitlin Murray: when you I mean, what didn't I think I was 63 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:04,160 Caitlin Murray: going to be when I grew up. I was going 64 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:06,080 Caitlin Murray: to be maybe like an actress. I was going to 65 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:09,680 Caitlin Murray: be the president. I was going to be a teacher, 66 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:12,800 Caitlin Murray: a million things. You know, I didn't really have any 67 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,920 Caitlin Murray: hard and fast visions, but yeah, I'm none of those 68 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:17,839 Caitlin Murray: things now. 69 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:20,719 Emily Tisch Sussman: So you were pretty well rounded. 70 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:24,240 Caitlin Murray: I suppose thank you for saying that. Yeah, I did 71 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:28,080 Caitlin Murray: have a variety of interests. I still do. I still 72 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:28,479 Caitlin Murray: really do. 73 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: Early on, Caitlyn didn't put much weight on her career. 74 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: She thought she'd get married, have kids, and stay home, 75 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: and things started to fall into place when she met 76 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:40,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: her husband, Michael. 77 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,840 Caitlin Murray: I met my husband in college. We went to Middlebury 78 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,720 Caitlin Murray: up in Vermont. He was from New York, and so 79 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:53,200 Caitlin Murray: after graduation we were together, but like, our relationship was 80 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:56,040 Caitlin Murray: a rocky place at that time. We were just up 81 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,240 Caitlin Murray: and down and we were doing a lot of some 82 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,279 Caitlin Murray: breaking up and making up and thing. But I just 83 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,520 Caitlin Murray: wanted like a new experience and a couple of friends, 84 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,960 Caitlin Murray: and I decided to move to New York. And the 85 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:09,960 Caitlin Murray: rest is kind of history, because my husband and I 86 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,080 Caitlin Murray: did end up blocking it in like several years later, 87 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:16,640 Caitlin Murray: after exploring if we were really right for each other 88 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,480 Caitlin Murray: or not. And I've been in New York ever since. 89 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:21,240 Caitlin Murray: You guys are still together. 90 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:23,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: I feel like people don't generally think those are going 91 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:26,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: to work out those relationships that are like up and down. 92 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:28,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: Did you think that it was not going to work out? 93 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,240 Caitlin Murray: I think that there was a period of time in 94 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:35,200 Caitlin Murray: my early twenties after graduation that I wasn't sure. But 95 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:40,120 Caitlin Murray: there was like a pretty distinctive breakup that we ended 96 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,640 Caitlin Murray: up when when we got back together, felt very different 97 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,479 Caitlin Murray: and like our relationship had turned our real corner in 98 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:50,320 Caitlin Murray: terms of like its maturity level. And at that point 99 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:52,880 Caitlin Murray: I knew that he would be the one. But when 100 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,560 Caitlin Murray: we first started dating, which was a scandal because I 101 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,400 Caitlin Murray: had a boyfriend at the time, he was such a 102 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:01,480 Caitlin Murray: good friend of mine. He was like my best friend 103 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,760 Caitlin Murray: at the time, and I thought this guy could easily 104 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,719 Caitlin Murray: be my husband because I just enjoy him so much. 105 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:08,960 Caitlin Murray: I still feel that way. 106 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:12,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: What do you think felt different when you guys got 107 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:14,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: back together, Like what had changed? 108 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:19,640 Caitlin Murray: Yeah, you know, we were both from parents who whose 109 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,800 Caitlin Murray: marriages were not successful, so I think that we had 110 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:28,320 Caitlin Murray: a lot of reservations about, you know, being super realistic 111 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:33,200 Caitlin Murray: about who was right for us and making sure of 112 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:37,680 Caitlin Murray: that before deciding to actually get married, and was almost 113 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,800 Caitlin Murray: like quite cynical about that selection process. I mean, I 114 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,160 Caitlin Murray: feel like even then I was I sort of understood 115 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:50,000 Caitlin Murray: marriages about finding the person that drives you the least crazy, 116 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:53,320 Caitlin Murray: Like they're going to still drive you crazy, because everyone's 117 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:55,840 Caitlin Murray: going to drive you crazy, but the person who will 118 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,760 Caitlin Murray: like not make you be crazy yere, And so I 119 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:03,000 Caitlin Murray: think I went into it was like a really solid 120 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,599 Caitlin Murray: understanding that marriage is hard. 121 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: Yeah, that's totally fair. And how much did you think 122 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:14,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: about having kids? How many kids? Like, how central was 123 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:16,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: that to your thinking about what your life was going 124 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:18,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: to look like? And did you make decisions around it. 125 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,760 Caitlin Murray: I always wanted three kids because I had only one brother, 126 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,960 Caitlin Murray: and I always was super curious as to what a 127 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,360 Caitlin Murray: family of three or more would look like. I think 128 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,280 Caitlin Murray: I always wished I had one more sibling or that 129 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:34,200 Caitlin Murray: kind of thing, and just to see what that family 130 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:36,040 Caitlin Murray: dynamic would be like. So it was sort of this 131 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:40,120 Caitlin Murray: goal in my mind to get to three. But holy shit, 132 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,280 Caitlin Murray: after I had won, I was like, to do this, 133 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,840 Caitlin Murray: it's crazy. I didn't know this was going to be 134 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:50,560 Caitlin Murray: so hard, And so that was a real slap in 135 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:54,160 Caitlin Murray: the face. Eye opener. And my husband's cousin would say, 136 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,840 Caitlin Murray: kids are like crack. You have one and then you 137 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,600 Caitlin Murray: kind of want to have another, even though it's like 138 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:00,640 Caitlin Murray: for you. 139 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:06,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: What were you doing professionally at the time. Did you 140 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:08,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: feel like that was a real focus for you, equally 141 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:12,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: to trying to figure out how to have three kids. 142 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:16,600 Caitlin Murray: Professionally At that time, before having kids and while dating 143 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,200 Caitlin Murray: and at the beginning of my marriage, I was working 144 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,720 Caitlin Murray: or actually I stopped working at this place right before 145 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,960 Caitlin Murray: I got married, or as around the time I got engaged, 146 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:29,520 Caitlin Murray: because I was working for this company that raised money 147 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,400 Caitlin Murray: for charities based out of Ireland, and all of the 148 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:35,679 Caitlin Murray: way that we did that was through hosting large events, 149 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:41,320 Caitlin Murray: and all of the events and opportunities to entertain donors 150 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,760 Caitlin Murray: and be at parties all of the time and be 151 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:48,560 Caitlin Murray: traveling to other parties in different places was never going 152 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:51,600 Caitlin Murray: to be conducive to a mother of young children. So 153 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:53,280 Caitlin Murray: I was kind of like, I got to wrap this 154 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,440 Caitlin Murray: up and find a job that is going to be 155 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,600 Caitlin Murray: a little bit more friendly to motherhood because I really 156 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,120 Caitlin Murray: knew that I wanted kids, and I kind of figured 157 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:06,040 Caitlin Murray: like I would go like a very vanilla traditional path 158 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,360 Caitlin Murray: about it, where I was like, I'll get married and 159 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,360 Caitlin Murray: then I'll wait a year, and then I'll start trying 160 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,120 Caitlin Murray: to have kids, and I'll have a kid, and then 161 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:14,400 Caitlin Murray: all have another kid two years after that, and but 162 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:16,640 Caitlin Murray: like I had it all planned out in my mind 163 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:18,960 Caitlin Murray: what I thought was going to be, which is of 164 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,040 Caitlin Murray: course never how it all turns out. 165 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: So what you're describing right now, I think is a 166 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: lot of what we talk about, which is changing your 167 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:31,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: version of success. Yes, that your version of success in 168 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:35,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: that job, it sounds like, was being successful in the 169 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: metrics of the job, raising money, putting on a bends, 170 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:42,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: being present, all of that, and as your personal life evolved, 171 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:45,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: like as your personal life changed, it was no longer 172 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:47,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: meeting your your metric of success. 173 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:51,240 Caitlin Murray: Yeah, I mean in that sense, I will say quite 174 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:53,920 Caitlin Murray: honestly that I don't think I ever took that career 175 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,840 Caitlin Murray: path of mine and even the job that I got 176 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,959 Caitlin Murray: after that to continue working to too seriously, because in 177 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,880 Caitlin Murray: my mind I was going to become probably a stay 178 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:09,080 Caitlin Murray: at home mom. So when I became pregnant with my 179 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,720 Caitlin Murray: first child, in my mind, I was like, that's it, 180 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:13,920 Caitlin Murray: I'm going to become a stay at home mom. I've 181 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:15,760 Caitlin Murray: been I've been ready for this, I've been this is 182 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,080 Caitlin Murray: what I've been thinking I wanted to do, And then 183 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:22,040 Caitlin Murray: when the baby came, I was like, holy shit, I 184 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:25,120 Caitlin Murray: want to go back to the office. This is so hard, 185 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,800 Caitlin Murray: you know. I was so jealous of my husband, who 186 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,040 Caitlin Murray: would be able to like skip out the front door 187 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,760 Caitlin Murray: and go get a coffee and like go to the 188 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:36,360 Caitlin Murray: bathroom by himself and eat lunch and shit like that. 189 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:39,200 Caitlin Murray: And I was like, oh my god, this like is 190 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,480 Caitlin Murray: so different from what I imagined it would be. I 191 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:48,640 Caitlin Murray: can't even begin to describe how duped I feel right now, honestly. 192 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:52,080 Caitlin Murray: And I had this conversation with my boss before I 193 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,040 Caitlin Murray: left to have the baby, and I was really honest 194 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:55,480 Caitlin Murray: and I said, you know, I don't want to trick 195 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:57,360 Caitlin Murray: you into thinking that I'm going to come back after 196 00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:59,880 Caitlin Murray: a maternity leave or something. And she was like, Kaitlyn, 197 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:04,320 Caitlin Murray: take your maternity leave, and if you decide at the 198 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:06,199 Caitlin Murray: end of that that you don't want to come back, 199 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:08,760 Caitlin Murray: I will be totally okay with that, but you might 200 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,760 Caitlin Murray: feel differently, like just take my word for it. And 201 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:16,000 Caitlin Murray: she was like, we can restructure your like let you 202 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:18,520 Caitlin Murray: come in on a part time basis. And that's what 203 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:20,680 Caitlin Murray: I actually ended up doing. I went to down just 204 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,960 Caitlin Murray: three days a week in the office, and I was 205 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:28,240 Caitlin Murray: so grateful for her for leaving that option open for me. 206 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:31,800 Caitlin Murray: That I didn't anticipate wanting to use. And it was 207 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,960 Caitlin Murray: a real like a mental saving grace for me to 208 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:38,360 Caitlin Murray: have that. By the time, like I went back on 209 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,120 Caitlin Murray: maternity leave, I thought, like you would think I would 210 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:43,240 Caitlin Murray: just be like crying, like, oh my god, I can't 211 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:46,720 Caitlin Murray: leave my baby. I was skipping down my walkway to 212 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:50,000 Caitlin Murray: get out the door to work. Now. Granted, like I knew, 213 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,280 Caitlin Murray: I was also being part time and I would have 214 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,120 Caitlin Murray: time home with the baby, so I was very lucky 215 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:58,160 Caitlin Murray: to have that set of circumstances, but I was really 216 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:00,280 Caitlin Murray: shocked to feel the way that I felt. It was 217 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:04,840 Caitlin Murray: a definitely like turned my world upside down moment. So 218 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,920 Caitlin Murray: after I left that job that was like the fast 219 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,080 Caitlin Murray: paced party life, and I went to work in a 220 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:15,120 Caitlin Murray: different fundraising capacity but in a school, and I was 221 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:18,840 Caitlin Murray: dealing with high and neet worse individuals doing fundraising there, 222 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:23,760 Caitlin Murray: and it was a very like much more structured like 223 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:30,000 Caitlin Murray: work life friendly environment. It was not these lavish party situations. 224 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:34,560 Caitlin Murray: It was very PG everything, PGPC everything, and it was 225 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,080 Caitlin Murray: great for like the purpose that it served at that 226 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,520 Caitlin Murray: time of my life. But I was not passionate about 227 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:42,080 Caitlin Murray: where I was or what I was doing, and there 228 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:44,640 Caitlin Murray: came a point in time, but something's happened in my 229 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:47,600 Caitlin Murray: life that made it very clear that I needed to 230 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:48,960 Caitlin Murray: be more at home. 231 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: When we come back, we hear how Caitlin's life was 232 00:12:53,960 --> 00:13:07,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: turned upside down in a blink of an eye. After 233 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:11,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: finally finding her footing back at work, Caitlin received news 234 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:13,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: that no mother wants to hear. 235 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:18,560 Caitlin Murray: So I had my first two while I was working there, 236 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:23,160 Caitlin Murray: when my oldest was three and my middle at the time, 237 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,360 Caitlin Murray: who was my youngest, was only one. My oldest was 238 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:30,880 Caitlin Murray: diagnosed with leukemia and that ended up obviously turning my 239 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,240 Caitlin Murray: whole world upside down. And the place where I worked 240 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:38,280 Caitlin Murray: was wonderful about that situation for me, and they allowed 241 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,320 Caitlin Murray: me to kind of like restructure my job however I 242 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,080 Caitlin Murray: wanted it to be at the time working from home 243 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:47,600 Caitlin Murray: as much as I needed or wanted indefinitely. And this 244 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,920 Caitlin Murray: was well before the pandemic, and working from home was 245 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,240 Caitlin Murray: like not as normalized as it is now, which was 246 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,480 Caitlin Murray: so nice. But this was a long process. My son 247 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,360 Caitlin Murray: was in treatment for over three years, and during time 248 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,600 Caitlin Murray: I also became pregnant with our third child, and he 249 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:07,680 Caitlin Murray: was born in May of twenty nineteen, and at that time, 250 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,840 Caitlin Murray: my oldest who was still in treatment, was well enough 251 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:14,120 Caitlin Murray: to go back to school, but was still super fragile 252 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:16,640 Caitlin Murray: and would have to go to the hospital right away 253 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:18,880 Caitlin Murray: if he had a fever because he had a port 254 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,160 Caitlin Murray: in his chest, and I really needed to be readily 255 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,640 Caitlin Murray: available and on call, and I couldn't be commuting into 256 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:26,720 Caitlin Murray: the city. We were living out in the suburbs at 257 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:28,400 Caitlin Murray: that time. We still live out in the verbs, but 258 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,240 Caitlin Murray: I needed to be there immediately if he were to 259 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,640 Caitlin Murray: get sick, and especially if he had become febrile. So 260 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:39,920 Caitlin Murray: I took that as my queue to exit the structured 261 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,960 Caitlin Murray: working world as it were. And that was really hard. 262 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,960 Caitlin Murray: Even though I wasn't like super dedicated to my job 263 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,480 Caitlin Murray: and that career per se, it was something that was 264 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,040 Caitlin Murray: mine that was not about being a mom, and it 265 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,680 Caitlin Murray: was like this wonderful escape for me to just be 266 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,320 Caitlin Murray: working and doing something outside of my role as mom 267 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,840 Caitlin Murray: and caregiver. And to give that up felt like I 268 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:07,320 Caitlin Murray: was leaving this whole like part of my identity for 269 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,200 Caitlin Murray: grabs or just like a side and giving, you know, 270 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:12,960 Caitlin Murray: sort of giving up on that part of me. But 271 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,600 Caitlin Murray: it and that's where that whole redefinition of success really 272 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,200 Caitlin Murray: came into play, and I had to really focus on 273 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,040 Caitlin Murray: the fact that my most important and valued place at 274 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:25,160 Caitlin Murray: that time was with my kids. And you know, it 275 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,160 Caitlin Murray: was my honor to be there for my son when 276 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:29,120 Caitlin Murray: he was sick, and I would do it a thousand 277 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:33,560 Caitlin Murray: million times over. But for me personally, it did feel 278 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:37,880 Caitlin Murray: like I was making a deeper sacrifice of myself because 279 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:40,720 Caitlin Murray: even though that job wasn't what I wanted, I knew 280 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,400 Caitlin Murray: I wanted more personally for like a deeper sense of fulfillment. 281 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: You talk about this identity shift like that you can 282 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: both things can be true. You can want to be 283 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: home with your kids and you had always wanted it, 284 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:58,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: and you can be sad about that loss of identity 285 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:03,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: for yourself. To me, like, I'm guessing this, but your 286 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: identity probably became your external identity. Probably became even more 287 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: merged with your family life than an average mom who 288 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:11,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: would step away from her and be with her kids, 289 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: because you became like the mom of the kid with cancer. Yeah, 290 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: I was fully part of who I was and what 291 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:19,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: I had to be doing at the time. And this 292 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: is where the huge part that I didn't expect and 293 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:26,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: didn't envision came fully into play in my life was, 294 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: which was that I didn't want to be the full 295 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:31,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: time stay at home mom. Like but this is where 296 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: women have such a get the short end of the 297 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: stick all of the time, because men don't have to 298 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: feel that guilt about not being there for and with 299 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: the kids, Like it is just a given that they 300 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: will be working. It's always a given for them, and 301 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: there's no question of who's going to if they're going 302 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:49,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: to be the ones to stay home, or if you're 303 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:51,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: going to get help or what it's it's always on 304 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: what's what is the woman going to do right? And 305 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:55,359 Emily Tisch Sussman: there's always. 306 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:59,560 Caitlin Murray: Something that you have to set aside in any scenario. 307 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,320 Caitlin Murray: I mean, unless you were like just fully in love 308 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:04,960 Caitlin Murray: with being home with your kids and it works for 309 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,080 Caitlin Murray: your family and the financial structure of your family, then 310 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:10,320 Caitlin Murray: I'm like, oh my god, you're so lucky that you 311 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:13,000 Caitlin Murray: don't have to feel the torment of being there but 312 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,040 Caitlin Murray: kind of not wanting to be there, but knowing that 313 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:17,680 Caitlin Murray: it's important for you to be there and that it's 314 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:21,199 Caitlin Murray: a valuable job and the hardest job and all of that. 315 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:27,119 Emily Tisch Sussman: To sort through her complicated emotions around it all, Caitlin 316 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: turned to writing and started a blog. 317 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,400 Caitlin Murray: At the beginning, it definitely felt really heavy, and it 318 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:36,600 Caitlin Murray: was heavy. There were a period of months where I 319 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,320 Caitlin Murray: honestly just like did not really feel like joking or 320 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,520 Caitlin Murray: laughing or didn't feel like I was able to access 321 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,119 Caitlin Murray: a lot of joy at that time. But what I 322 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:49,359 Caitlin Murray: had started doing fairly early on in my son's treatment 323 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:53,560 Caitlin Murray: process was writing to family and friends about not just 324 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,720 Caitlin Murray: like updates, but something more anecdotal, and I would talk 325 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:02,160 Caitlin Murray: about our lives altogether, what I was going through mentally 326 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,000 Caitlin Murray: as a mom at that time, and I was able 327 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:09,359 Caitlin Murray: to touch on and tap into humor there and really 328 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,480 Caitlin Murray: like let some stuff rip in my writing. That felt 329 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,480 Caitlin Murray: so good to be able to say, because I felt 330 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:17,800 Caitlin Murray: like I was still honoring, like the hard parts of 331 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,480 Caitlin Murray: what we were going through and then able to just 332 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:23,680 Caitlin Murray: get a little release and take the edge off a 333 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,760 Caitlin Murray: little bit with the humor. And little by little I 334 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,920 Caitlin Murray: continued to really tap into that and lean on it 335 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,600 Caitlin Murray: a lot as a coping mechanism for what we were 336 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:35,919 Caitlin Murray: going through. And it's one of those things where now 337 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,640 Caitlin Murray: on my Instagram account, all I do is make fun 338 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,919 Caitlin Murray: of kids and the challenges and the struggles of what 339 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,119 Caitlin Murray: it really is like being a parent. And it's not 340 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,520 Caitlin Murray: about the cancer stuff like it's about the every day, 341 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:52,840 Caitlin Murray: the mundane. It's stuff that I felt from the very 342 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:55,520 Caitlin Murray: beginning of becoming a mom. But I didn't know that 343 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,359 Caitlin Murray: it was like okay to talk about that stuff until 344 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,760 Caitlin Murray: I had started going through this difficult situation with my son, 345 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:03,600 Caitlin Murray: and I got through that. And I don't know if 346 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,480 Caitlin Murray: this is an expletive free podcast, but today it's not 347 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,440 Caitlin Murray: because I really didn't give a fuck about what anyone 348 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,800 Caitlin Murray: felt or thought or said about what I had to 349 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,040 Caitlin Murray: say about what it was like to be a mom, 350 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:17,720 Caitlin Murray: and that at that time, because I was really in 351 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:22,080 Caitlin Murray: the trenches and I knew my worth and my value 352 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:25,000 Caitlin Murray: as a mom, I had a lot of conviction in that. 353 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,119 Emily Tisch Sussman: Going through those really tough moments. Obviously you would never 354 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,879 Emily Tisch Sussman: wish it upon anybody, but going through tough moments like 355 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,159 Emily Tisch Sussman: that really does make you tougher to criticism because you 356 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:38,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: really truly give a fuck less what people think and 357 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: like how you process it, because you're like I made it, 358 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: like I made it through or I'm making it right now, 359 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:46,919 Emily Tisch Sussman: and so I'm really uninterested in how you judge me 360 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:47,199 Emily Tisch Sussman: in it. 361 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,160 Caitlin Murray: Yeah, it's very freeing in a lot of ways of 362 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,280 Caitlin Murray: so many things, you know, in a way that I 363 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:56,359 Caitlin Murray: can't say that I always am good about this, but 364 00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:00,280 Caitlin Murray: not getting bogged down as much by little things, or 365 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,840 Caitlin Murray: really appreciating and finding a ton of gratitude in the 366 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,480 Caitlin Murray: little things, which goes along with I think the like 367 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:10,879 Caitlin Murray: not caring about the things that aren't that important, such 368 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,360 Caitlin Murray: as someone else's opinion of you when it's not hurtful, 369 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:16,760 Caitlin Murray: you know, like when you're not like hurting anyone or 370 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:18,880 Caitlin Murray: doing something like what does it matter what you think? 371 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,840 Caitlin Murray: I'm saying how I feel and I'm talking about my experience. 372 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,320 Caitlin Murray: You know, I'm not telling you how you need to feel. 373 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:30,159 Emily Tisch Sussman: And she does this masterfully on her Instagram account. She 374 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: showcases what's real and honest in a way that feels 375 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:38,639 Emily Tisch Sussman: both deeply unique and completely relatable. After the break, we 376 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: dive into how and why Caitlyn decided to transition her 377 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:52,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: blog over to social media. Welcome back to the show. 378 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: After a few years of blogging, Caitlyn found her way 379 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:00,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: to social media in a way might not expect through 380 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:01,359 Emily Tisch Sussman: the publishing industry. 381 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,800 Caitlin Murray: And that's when I actually ended up getting started with 382 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,720 Caitlin Murray: my Instagram account, which took me to a whole new 383 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,639 Caitlin Murray: career path in a wonderful way that was sort of 384 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,600 Caitlin Murray: born out of this really difficult experience that I was 385 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:19,840 Caitlin Murray: going through. But all this to say that, like, your 386 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:24,040 Caitlin Murray: life can totally change, and there's so much room for 387 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:28,639 Caitlin Murray: different careers and endeavors that you may never have expected 388 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,919 Caitlin Murray: that are completely outside of what you've been trained to 389 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:33,840 Caitlin Murray: do or have done throughout your life. 390 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,399 Emily Tisch Sussman: So when you made the transition, were people sending your 391 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:38,159 Emily Tisch Sussman: blog around? 392 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:38,280 Caitlin Murray: Like? 393 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: Did your blog start to go around as a public 394 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: platform and then you transitioned it to an Instagram account? 395 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: And why not use your name? When you started a bit? 396 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,679 Caitlin Murray: It did go around, but like very minimally, just like 397 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,679 Caitlin Murray: probably from a family friend network perspective, like it was 398 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,720 Caitlin Murray: definitely not reaching far and wide. And that is sort 399 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,719 Caitlin Murray: of what ended up propelling me to start my Instagram 400 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,960 Caitlin Murray: act out because a woman who lives in my town, 401 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:07,000 Caitlin Murray: who worked in the editing world for years, had seen 402 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,479 Caitlin Murray: it and asked if I would be interested in her 403 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,159 Caitlin Murray: showing it to her publisher, and I was like, this 404 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,720 Caitlin Murray: would be wonderful. I love writing, And the publisher sort 405 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:17,520 Caitlin Murray: of came back and was like, this writing is fine, 406 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,200 Caitlin Murray: She's fine, But like, this woman has no platform we're 407 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,359 Caitlin Murray: not going to give her a fucking book deal, you know, 408 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:26,240 Caitlin Murray: like scram And so then I kind of realized how 409 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,480 Caitlin Murray: that world works, and I was thinking, maybe I should 410 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,280 Caitlin Murray: take my show on the road, get on social media, 411 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,880 Caitlin Murray: and see if I can build a platform. So that's 412 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,159 Caitlin Murray: how I got that part started. And yeah, so the 413 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:42,560 Caitlin Murray: blogging and the emailing of our experience was not the 414 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:44,960 Caitlin Murray: thing that gained me an audience. Yeah. 415 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: So when you started the account really to be able 416 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: to give herself a platform for the blog to make 417 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:55,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: it a book, did you start it in the same space, like, 418 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: in the same headspace that you were saying, I'm trying 419 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: to use humor to get through this really hard cancer 420 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,399 Emily Tisch Sussman: moment because your content now is not related to it. 421 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: So did it evolve or was it always focused more 422 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: on your experience in the every day Yeah? 423 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,560 Caitlin Murray: I think. And I didn't answer the part you asked, 424 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,679 Caitlin Murray: why didn't I use my name? I had gone back 425 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:15,720 Caitlin Murray: and forth on that. I'm not sure why I didn't. 426 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:17,840 Caitlin Murray: Sometimes I wish that I did use my name, but 427 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:21,320 Caitlin Murray: I had just named my blog Big Time Adulting, even 428 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:23,680 Caitlin Murray: when I was just sending it to family and friends, 429 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,399 Caitlin Murray: and I just stuck with it. I just thought that 430 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,080 Caitlin Murray: some of the other mom accounts that I had seen 431 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,960 Caitlin Murray: on Instagram had like names, not their name, but like 432 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,960 Caitlin Murray: fucking names I don't know whatever. So this was my 433 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,680 Caitlin Murray: name and that's what I went with and here we are. 434 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,800 Caitlin Murray: But yeah, the beginning, I wasn't quite sure about like 435 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,679 Caitlin Murray: what and how I was going to be sharing. But 436 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,679 Caitlin Murray: I think that I knew that I had a lot 437 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,960 Caitlin Murray: on my mind about just the day to day stuff, 438 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,560 Caitlin Murray: and that I was thinking all of these funny things 439 00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:00,520 Caitlin Murray: about what my days are like and all the craziness 440 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,600 Caitlin Murray: that goes on in a day with little kids, and 441 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:05,920 Caitlin Murray: how easy it would be to make fun of them, 442 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,280 Caitlin Murray: and that people needed to know that kids should be 443 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:10,200 Caitlin Murray: made fun of more. 444 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,239 Emily Tisch Sussman: Yeah, I mean, I really can't be in to tell 445 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,359 Emily Tisch Sussman: you how many times my friend sent me your content 446 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: and they're like, Emily, this thing that you've been like 447 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: privately complaining to us about our in our text chain, 448 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: like she's actually saying it out loud. And I think 449 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,359 Emily Tisch Sussman: that you gave a lot of us like a permission 450 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:30,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: unlock to say yes, I can be like it's the 451 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,159 Emily Tisch Sussman: both things, like yes, I could be happy that I 452 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: have these kids and this is really hard and it's 453 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:36,399 Emily Tisch Sussman: okay for me to complain about it. 454 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,639 Caitlin Murray: Yeah, It's one of those things that you don't feel 455 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,160 Caitlin Murray: is okay to say when you first become a mom, 456 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,560 Caitlin Murray: because there's so much ingrained in us about what being 457 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,360 Caitlin Murray: a good mom looks like. And a lot of that 458 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:52,879 Caitlin Murray: I think goes back to like some deep seated, like 459 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:57,800 Caitlin Murray: patriarchal trauma that we have about like being a good 460 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,880 Caitlin Murray: wife and a mother and all that shit. And there's 461 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,280 Caitlin Murray: a lot of martyrdom in motherhood, you know, things that 462 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,359 Caitlin Murray: we say or do or don't do and kind of 463 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,399 Caitlin Murray: are willing to die on the proverbial cross for that 464 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,560 Caitlin Murray: are not really serving us. And so think that like 465 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,480 Caitlin Murray: when you're able to talk about this stuff, especially through 466 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,280 Caitlin Murray: like a humorous lens, because that always gives it, like 467 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,919 Caitlin Murray: it's much more palatable for the masses when you make 468 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,160 Caitlin Murray: it funny, you know that it breaks down a lot 469 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,480 Caitlin Murray: of those walls that we feel like we have up 470 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,880 Caitlin Murray: as moms, that we have to present a certain way 471 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:34,880 Caitlin Murray: or look a certain way as a mother or else 472 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,000 Caitlin Murray: you're a bad mom. And that's just not true, you know, 473 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,159 Caitlin Murray: because there's so much going on behind the scenes and 474 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,719 Caitlin Murray: behind the curtains that we're all experiencing and dealing with 475 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,360 Caitlin Murray: them or just thinking that we suck at this or whatever, 476 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:46,879 Caitlin Murray: and I was like, you know, I'm just going to 477 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:48,600 Caitlin Murray: put it out there and say all the things that 478 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,200 Caitlin Murray: I suck yet to everybody, for anyone who wants to hear. 479 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,879 Emily Tisch Sussman: It didn't take long for Caitlin's account to catch on 480 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,359 Emily Tisch Sussman: and go viral during COVID. As moms everywhere, we're looking 481 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,719 Emily Tisch Sussman: for anyone to talk honestly about what parenting was truly like, 482 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: and Caitlin filled that gap in the market flawlessly. 483 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,000 Caitlin Murray: I did have a lot of growth during COVID because 484 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,040 Caitlin Murray: I think that there was actually it was a highly 485 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,240 Caitlin Murray: relatable situation for me because we had done so much 486 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,880 Caitlin Murray: isolating and so much staying at home with our son 487 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,960 Caitlin Murray: while he was sick that I had a lot of 488 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,520 Caitlin Murray: this material was just stuff that I had been feeling 489 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:27,000 Caitlin Murray: and thinking along the way while I was cooped up 490 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,680 Caitlin Murray: with my kids. That was a completely not new situation 491 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:32,800 Caitlin Murray: for me at that point, and I was like, I've 492 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,359 Caitlin Murray: got material for days on this, and then it just 493 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,439 Caitlin Murray: became it was super relatable to the masses at that 494 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,879 Caitlin Murray: point too, So a lot of that stuff did go 495 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,960 Caitlin Murray: pretty viral. Good morning. Welcome back to the Shit Show. 496 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,879 Caitlin Murray: I'm Kaitlyn Murray with Big Time Adulting, live from one 497 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,840 Caitlin Murray: of the coronavirus hotspots in the nation. We'll come back 498 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,160 Caitlin Murray: to the shit Show. I'm Kaitlyn Murray with Big Time 499 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,920 Caitlin Murray: deuilting live here from the corner of my bedroom where 500 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,080 Caitlin Murray: I'm hiding from my children this week. 501 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: Had you been thinking as you create it like that 502 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: you were kind of tracking growth, like, were you tracking trends? 503 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,719 Emily Tisch Sussman: Were you really conscious about it or it was just 504 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:09,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: sort of a brain dump spot for you. 505 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,240 Caitlin Murray: I think a little of BOLF because I knew that 506 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,639 Caitlin Murray: I had to be sort of true to myself and 507 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,040 Caitlin Murray: authentic in my messaging if I wanted to be sustainable 508 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,520 Caitlin Murray: and consistent with it, because like you know, I just 509 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,800 Caitlin Murray: wanted to be able to show up every day like 510 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:25,919 Caitlin Murray: as I was I could, you know, I go on 511 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,159 Caitlin Murray: there no makeup, like woke up first thing looking like 512 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,359 Caitlin Murray: death warmed over and ready to just you know, diarrhea 513 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,240 Caitlin Murray: of the mouth, whatever it is that's at the top 514 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,280 Caitlin Murray: of my mind about the kids and the things that 515 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,399 Caitlin Murray: are happening in my house. So I knew that I 516 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,160 Caitlin Murray: had to be able to like make that happen every day. 517 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,280 Caitlin Murray: But part of that is because like the algorithm response 518 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:49,159 Caitlin Murray: to consistent, regular output of content, and that I was like, 519 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:50,760 Caitlin Murray: I can do that, but I just have to be 520 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:52,160 Caitlin Murray: able to show up as I am. 521 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: Was there one particular or a couple particular that really 522 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:57,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: went viral and you're like, Okay, we've hit something here. 523 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,159 Caitlin Murray: I think the first one that went viral was a 524 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,600 Caitlin Murray: video of me dancing with Luky strapped to the front 525 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,600 Caitlin Murray: of me to back that ass up in our kitchen, 526 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,760 Caitlin Murray: and it was like I had sunglasses on, he had 527 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,600 Caitlin Murray: sunglasses on, type saying, and the floor was covered in 528 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,199 Caitlin Murray: like markers and stuff. And I think it just was like, 529 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,359 Caitlin Murray: I don't know, if something it hit, it got shared 530 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,119 Caitlin Murray: by somebody who had a big account, and then it 531 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,960 Caitlin Murray: went all over. And then after that it was like 532 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,040 Caitlin Murray: drips and drabs of things that like performed well, like 533 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,400 Caitlin Murray: decent engagement, and then things that were like whoa that 534 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,760 Caitlin Murray: really got shared far and wide, And a few of 535 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,240 Caitlin Murray: those things were at the beginning of COVID for sure. 536 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:42,680 Caitlin Murray: But yeah, it's been a pretty like steady growth process throughout. 537 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,920 Caitlin Murray: I will say I did see some like immediate rewards 538 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,640 Caitlin Murray: within the first maybe five to eight months, I probably 539 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,800 Caitlin Murray: had like twenty thousand followers or something, and I was like, wow, 540 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,520 Caitlin Murray: that's growth. I can't believe I have twenty thousand followers 541 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,720 Caitlin Murray: on Instagram from spewing this shit in my kitchen, you know. 542 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: And so how do you think now about your parameters? 543 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:08,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: Like how do you structure your work? How do you 544 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: think about your parameters around your work and your home? 545 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: Like you're still you still have three pretty young kids. 546 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: It takes a lot of time, but you're very successful. 547 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,000 Caitlin Murray: Well thanks. I feel like a chicken with my head 548 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,600 Caitlin Murray: cut off, like all of the time pretty much. I 549 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,640 Caitlin Murray: don't have a ton of help, Like I only have 550 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:32,840 Caitlin Murray: my babysitter. I'm very particular about like how much people 551 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,920 Caitlin Murray: how much I want other people around, Like I really 552 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,840 Caitlin Murray: prefer to be alone. I have a babysitter a couple 553 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,600 Caitlin Murray: afternoons a week pretty much, and then if needed, when 554 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,920 Caitlin Murray: I have like an event or something like that, I 555 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,480 Caitlin Murray: call it auxiliaries or call her back in or to 556 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,200 Caitlin Murray: get more help. But it is become a lot to 557 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,640 Caitlin Murray: handle because about a year and a half ago, I 558 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,560 Caitlin Murray: started taking my content and my work like much more 559 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,880 Caitlin Murray: seriously as a business, which was sort of part of 560 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:02,760 Caitlin Murray: the plan. I was sort of always playing a long 561 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,480 Caitlin Murray: game to wait till I got a certain size of 562 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,160 Caitlin Murray: an audience to start focusing more on the business aspect 563 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,480 Caitlin Murray: of what I was doing. I never wanted to be 564 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,440 Caitlin Murray: like an influencer in the very traditional sense, like kind 565 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,680 Caitlin Murray: of selling other products or doing a lot of brand 566 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:21,960 Caitlin Murray: deals and that kind of thing. I do some of 567 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,440 Caitlin Murray: that stuff, and it's great to monetize all the work 568 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,280 Caitlin Murray: that I put into this, which is it's really cool 569 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,400 Caitlin Murray: to be able to do that, but that's not like 570 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,640 Caitlin Murray: my long term goal. So I was always sort of 571 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,040 Caitlin Murray: playing a long game, and I had the privilege to 572 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,200 Caitlin Murray: do that because my husband was always the breadwinner and 573 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,320 Caitlin Murray: he was able to support us while I was kind 574 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,120 Caitlin Murray: of doing this as like a let's see what happens 575 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,440 Caitlin Murray: type thing. But now it's become a full on business 576 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,440 Caitlin Murray: and a lot of work, and it's my life is 577 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,960 Caitlin Murray: super busy and crazy, but I feel like every mom's 578 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,720 Caitlin Murray: life is super busy and crazy, so I'm just like 579 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,880 Caitlin Murray: everybody else. And to be honest, I shouldn't even say that, 580 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,840 Caitlin Murray: because I really adore being able to do what I'm doing. 581 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,240 Caitlin Murray: It feels like so much fun, it's so much fun. 582 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,320 Caitlin Murray: What do you think your version of success is? Right now? 583 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,800 Caitlin Murray: That's such a good question. I keep like changing my 584 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,200 Caitlin Murray: mind on that. I think that what I have always 585 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,040 Caitlin Murray: felt is when I started this that I truly did 586 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,560 Caitlin Murray: want to monetize it in a very meaningful way, like 587 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,480 Caitlin Murray: at the beginning. But I didn't do anything to monetize 588 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,360 Caitlin Murray: it for quite a while. But I think that that's 589 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,720 Caitlin Murray: also one of those things it's like important to say. 590 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,560 Caitlin Murray: Even though I didn't know what would happen, it was 591 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,800 Caitlin Murray: sort of like a little bit like throwing shit against 592 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,160 Caitlin Murray: the wall to see what sticks at first, and what 593 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:43,960 Caitlin Murray: is this and what am I doing? I did feel 594 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,560 Caitlin Murray: deep down that I wanted to turn it into something 595 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,520 Caitlin Murray: big and I wanted it to be successful monetarily, and 596 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:52,960 Caitlin Murray: I still feel that way, And I feel like women 597 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:57,400 Caitlin Murray: don't always say that that they're like hoping to make 598 00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,520 Caitlin Murray: a lot of money what they're doing right and what 599 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,360 Caitlin Murray: they're putting their time and effort into. So that was 600 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,800 Caitlin Murray: always definitely a goal for me. My version of success, 601 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,120 Caitlin Murray: I think, would be to build a business, a real 602 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:15,120 Caitlin Murray: substantial business of my own, and make it successful through 603 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,920 Caitlin Murray: using my audience, you know, as a consumer. For whatever 604 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,360 Caitlin Murray: that is. It has to be something that's like definitely 605 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,080 Caitlin Murray: really meaningful to me that I'm going to be willing 606 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,560 Caitlin Murray: to talk about and sell and that kind of thing. 607 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,200 Caitlin Murray: So I haven't quite figured. There's a lot of like 608 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,600 Caitlin Murray: balls in the air and ideas and irons and the fire. 609 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,640 Caitlin Murray: So it's kind of waiting and narrowing some things down. 610 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: Do you come back to that book idea now that 611 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:41,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: you actually did build the audience? 612 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,160 Caitlin Murray: So I am writing a book right now. Also, I 613 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,440 Caitlin Murray: have a book deal and I have another year to 614 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,000 Caitlin Murray: finish it, But I like have not talked about it 615 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:52,640 Caitlin Murray: that much because I don't want to get sick of 616 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,120 Caitlin Murray: hearing myself talk about it. But the book that I 617 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,480 Caitlin Murray: am writing right now is a collection of short stories, 618 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,640 Caitlin Murray: which is just perfect for me, and I feel like 619 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,680 Caitlin Murray: it's also really great for my audience, who are you know, 620 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,680 Caitlin Murray: pretty much all moms that don't have a lot of 621 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,760 Caitlin Murray: time necessarily to sit and read a huge book, and 622 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,280 Caitlin Murray: that they can take these little, like bite sized stories 623 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,720 Caitlin Murray: and read one before bed or something like that. But yeah, 624 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,520 Caitlin Murray: I think I just felt that during the process of 625 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:22,240 Caitlin Murray: writing to my friends and family about what was going 626 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,320 Caitlin Murray: on with my son, that I was super therapeutic and 627 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,920 Caitlin Murray: I was finding a ton of joy and outlet in 628 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,600 Caitlin Murray: that process, and that I loved doing it and thought 629 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,840 Caitlin Murray: that I would love to one day maybe write a 630 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:35,640 Caitlin Murray: book if I were given the opportunity. 631 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:38,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: We had chatted a little while ago and you had 632 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: said something to me about how you're not sure that this, 633 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:42,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: like you don't want to kind of bank on like 634 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: this being the thing forever. 635 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,960 Caitlin Murray: Yeah. Well, I think social media is just such a 636 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,000 Caitlin Murray: it's like the wild West, you know, like there it's 637 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,680 Caitlin Murray: lawless out here on social media. That's sort of what 638 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,920 Caitlin Murray: I what I mean when I was saying that I 639 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,440 Caitlin Murray: want to build a business that's like sustainable on its 640 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:05,240 Caitlin Murray: own without relying on me being on Instagram all day 641 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,680 Caitlin Murray: every day, which is something that I enjoy doing, but 642 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:10,319 Caitlin Murray: I want to just be able to do it just 643 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:14,279 Caitlin Murray: for enjoyment eventually. So in that sense that it's not 644 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,879 Caitlin Murray: like selling somebody else's product to rely on the way 645 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,919 Caitlin Murray: that you're monetizing it, Because if that's what you're doing, 646 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,359 Caitlin Murray: then you need to be reliant on social media, right, 647 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,360 Caitlin Murray: You're totally reliant on your audience and these brand deals 648 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,600 Caitlin Murray: coming to you. But if you build your own thing 649 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:30,319 Caitlin Murray: and you have your own product and you're able to. 650 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,880 Caitlin Murray: You do still want to obviously use your network or 651 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,560 Caitlin Murray: your social media network to put it out there and 652 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:41,439 Caitlin Murray: advertise for yourself, but that it would be like successful independently. 653 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: I also want to talk a little bit more about 654 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,799 Emily Tisch Sussman: your use of humor in dark times. It's something that 655 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: obviously has come from a very personal place for you, 656 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: and you've been quite successful at it. And I think 657 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:55,839 Emily Tisch Sussman: a lot of people right now are trying to figure out, 658 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:57,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: like feel like they're in a dark time. I feel 659 00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: like I'm in a dark time. How do we use 660 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:01,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: humor or how do we access it? How do we 661 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:05,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: feel like it's acceptable to use? Yeah, it's funny. I 662 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,839 Emily Tisch Sussman: mean like I always feel like it's acceptable to use, 663 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: but not everybody feels that way, which I've learned over 664 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: the last week or so, Like you can't just some 665 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: people are just not always ready for a joke or whatever. 666 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,359 Emily Tisch Sussman: I mean within your personal circles and stuff. I think 667 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:19,799 Emily Tisch Sussman: it's like. 668 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,920 Caitlin Murray: You just let it fly, but there has to be 669 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:24,520 Caitlin Murray: a certain part of you if you want to be 670 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:26,319 Caitlin Murray: if you want to go without route, and that's like 671 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,240 Caitlin Murray: the person that you represent that has to stop fucking 672 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,759 Caitlin Murray: caring about what everybody thinks about what you're going to 673 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,000 Caitlin Murray: say all of the time. You just have to really 674 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,960 Caitlin Murray: follow what's right for you and use it when it 675 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,719 Caitlin Murray: feels like you're ready to. I did feel, like I said, 676 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,800 Caitlin Murray: there was a period of time where I didn't feel 677 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,480 Caitlin Murray: too funny about everything, but I did. I did get 678 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:49,560 Caitlin Murray: back into that. I did tap back into that, and 679 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:51,359 Caitlin Murray: I just I laugh and I joke, and I say, 680 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,280 Caitlin Murray: it's quite the defense mechanism that I use to shield 681 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,240 Caitlin Murray: myself from the real feelings. But I don't. I really 682 00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,960 Caitlin Murray: do like to get deep about real feelings and stuff too. 683 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,600 Caitlin Murray: And I just think it's important to be able to laugh. 684 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:04,840 Caitlin Murray: And who doesn't want to laugh? Right? It's just feels 685 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:06,280 Caitlin Murray: so good totally. 686 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: What is something we look back at all this What 687 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,839 Emily Tisch Sussman: is something that at the time you thought it can 688 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: be the big thing, or can be something else that 689 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:18,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: you thought was really a negative, and now in retrospect 690 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:20,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: you see it as having really launched you into the 691 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:21,439 Emily Tisch Sussman: person that you are now. 692 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,640 Caitlin Murray: I think that when you're younger and before, maybe like 693 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,000 Caitlin Murray: things happened to you that allow you to have less 694 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,360 Caitlin Murray: fucks to give or something like that, you feel like 695 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,640 Caitlin Murray: you have you put a wall up and you don't 696 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:40,520 Caitlin Murray: show your vulnerable sides, and it's hard to like maybe 697 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,759 Caitlin Murray: a peer, it's not weak, but it may maybe in 698 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,160 Caitlin Murray: your mind feels like it's it would appear weak to 699 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:51,319 Caitlin Murray: be honest about your weaknesses and your vulnerabilities. And that 700 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:56,400 Caitlin Murray: I've really found, especially since starting my social media account, 701 00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,440 Caitlin Murray: that talking about that stuff and where I feel like 702 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:04,080 Caitlin Murray: I have shortcomings and weaknesses or shame and stuff like 703 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:10,680 Caitlin Murray: that has really been the thing that's attracted people probably 704 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,960 Caitlin Murray: the most to me and my page, because I feel 705 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:19,319 Caitlin Murray: like I can be honest about my challenges and I'm 706 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,719 Caitlin Murray: okay with that, and I think that that's just like 707 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,399 Caitlin Murray: breaking down walls makes everybody feel better and that they 708 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,560 Caitlin Murray: can say how they really feel and not be judged 709 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,879 Caitlin Murray: and or feel censored and just to be themselves. 710 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: You know, they're so great. I think I told you 711 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: to Scalen. But when I was setting out to do 712 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:39,879 Emily Tisch Sussman: this podcast, I thought I needed an agent, so I went. 713 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,239 Emily Tisch Sussman: I met with like every agency, and they would put me 714 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: in the news division because they thought I was news 715 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: and the like. But you're not trying to be a 716 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:48,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: cable news host, so actually we don't know what to 717 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:50,759 Emily Tisch Sussman: do with you. And I was like no, I'm trying 718 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,359 Emily Tisch Sussman: to not be news. Yeah, and then I really didn't 719 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:54,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: know what to do with me because I know platform 720 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:58,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: that wasn't news. And in the process of everybody rejecting me, 721 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: I was like, Okay, actually I'm going to build it myself. Yeah, 722 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:03,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: like I'm going to do it myself because if they 723 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: can't see the vision, then actually I don't need them. 724 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:08,800 Caitlin Murray: Yeah. And I think that like we sort of doubt 725 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,799 Caitlin Murray: ourselves all of the time, like, oh, I don't know 726 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,160 Caitlin Murray: what I'm doing, I can't do this like every but 727 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,759 Caitlin Murray: people who do this know what they're doing or like 728 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,320 Caitlin Murray: they've done it before. They're getting professional advice and that 729 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,880 Caitlin Murray: kind of thing. And the really like the real truth 730 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,959 Caitlin Murray: is is that nobody really knows what they're doing at all. 731 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,160 Caitlin Murray: And if they think that they do, they they're probably wrong. 732 00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:31,120 Caitlin Murray: You know. They probably are changing paths like left and 733 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,640 Caitlin Murray: right along the way. It's like you just have to 734 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:36,399 Caitlin Murray: go out and start and sort of figure it out 735 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,640 Caitlin Murray: for yourself. No one's coming to save you. You got 736 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,560 Caitlin Murray: to do it yourself. But totally thank you. 737 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:43,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: Caitlyn's been so great. 738 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,200 Caitlin Murray: Yeah, thanks guys, good to see you. Emily. 739 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:51,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: Caitlyn and her family live here on the East Coast, 740 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,319 Emily Tisch Sussman: and in between all the kids' activities, mom duties and 741 00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: social media fame, she has also had time to host 742 00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,839 Emily Tisch Sussman: a podcast. You can listen to her show, Big Time 743 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: Adulting anywhere you get podcasts. Plus, there's a very special 744 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,239 Emily Tisch Sussman: episode with yours truly, so be sure to give it 745 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: a listen. You can follow Caitlin on Instagram and TikTok 746 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:16,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: at Big Time Adulting talk to You next Week. Thanks 747 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: for listening to this episode of She Pivots. If you 748 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: made it this far, you're a true Pivoter, so thanks for. 749 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:23,800 Caitlin Murray: Being part of this community. 750 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,719 Emily Tisch Sussman: I hope you enjoyed this episode, and if you did 751 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: leave us a rating, please be nice. Tell your friends 752 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:32,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: about us. To learn more about our guests, follow us 753 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: on Instagram at she Pivots the Podcast, or sign up 754 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: for our newsletter where you can get exclusive behind the 755 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: scenes content, or on our website She Pivots the Podcast 756 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:47,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: Talk to You Next Week special thanks to the she 757 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:52,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: Pivots team, Executive producer Emily Edavelosic, Associate producer and social 758 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:57,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: media connoisseur, Hannah Cousins, Research director Christine Dickinson, Events and 759 00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:01,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: Logistics coordinator Madeline Snovak An audio editor and mixer Nina 760 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:02,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: Pollock