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Speaker 1: This delightful program is brought to you by Squarespace. Beautiful

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Speaker 1: websites for beautiful beverages like kombucha dog dot com. I

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Speaker 1: guess kombucha means black mushroom tea, but it's much more

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Speaker 1: fun to say kombucha. Like chicken chimmy chonga. I never

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Speaker 1: really wanted chimmi chenga. I'd just like to ask, how's

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Speaker 1: the chicken chimmy chonga. There are two takeaways from what

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Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin just said. One, this show is brought to

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Speaker 1: you by Squarespace, and to Alec Baldwin called, are so delightful.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to you stuff you should know Groomhouse Stuff Works

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Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.

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Speaker 1: There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. Jerry's over there, post nasal

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Speaker 1: drip some sort, and that makes this stuff you should know.

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Speaker 1: It makes this room the infection zone. Oh, Jerry, are

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Speaker 1: you sick? No, she's not sick. Are you no good?

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Speaker 1: She's just snotty. That's fine as long as she's not sick.

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Speaker 1: Are you sick? No? Man? How are you feeling great? Good?

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Speaker 1: You're tired? Are you well? Your dad all dads are tired,

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Speaker 1: aren't they. That's nothing to do with it. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: why are you tiring? Just Uh, I didn't get enough

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Speaker 1: to sleep last night. Okay, but not because dad's We'll

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Speaker 1: leave it at that for building a wall. Let's back

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Speaker 1: away from that question, shall we instead? Chuck take my

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Speaker 1: hand and let's wander off into the forest. Uh this

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Speaker 1: is pretty neat. I gotta say. I was excited about

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Speaker 1: this because A it's dense like a forest. B it's

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Speaker 1: cool like a forest. And see, it provides a great

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Speaker 1: canopy over our heads. It does a canopy of knowledge.

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Speaker 1: I reverse engineered that last one. Oh yeah, man, he

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Speaker 1: is on a roll. We're gonna get a few. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna get some stuff wrong on this one. I don't

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Speaker 1: know that's correct. I feel like anytime we tackle something

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Speaker 1: that's in any industry like this, the people in the

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Speaker 1: industry are going to have way better current information than

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Speaker 1: we will. So I think it's funny because I picked

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Speaker 1: up on the same thing, not just with the industry,

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Speaker 1: but also with the battle over UM forestry rights. This

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Speaker 1: is a minefield, my friends. It really is. Because I

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Speaker 1: I this This UM article was written a number of

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Speaker 1: years back and it's very friendly to the forestry industry. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's not like extraordinarily conservation minded um, as far as

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Speaker 1: I'm concerned. Yeah, Well, I don't think I had to

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Speaker 1: drop a bombshell. No, I don't think I had a slant.

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Speaker 1: I saw it is pretty neutral. I don't know man

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Speaker 1: like um. But here's how confused I was. And we'll

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Speaker 1: get to this later. But these initiatives and certification programs,

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Speaker 1: we'll get to later. I didn't know like which one

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Speaker 1: I should like and not like. At the end, I

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Speaker 1: can tell you, well, save it all right? Does that

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Speaker 1: need somebody to tell me what to like and not? Like?

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Speaker 1: I can tell you just save it all right. I'm saving.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about forests in general, Chuck, Yes, uh, well,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about our country a little bit in the

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Speaker 1: United States. Well, even more, let's talk about our continent,

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Speaker 1: North America. That's right. When settlers came over here, there

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Speaker 1: was a lot of trees. There were a lot of trees.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember in our pigeon episode, like the idea

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Speaker 1: that there are so many what was the passenger pigeons

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Speaker 1: that that died off that were just driven to extinction

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Speaker 1: because of humans. I'm pretty sure was pas I got

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Speaker 1: confused in the episode about which it was very confusing. Thing.

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Speaker 1: And they think that ultimately the pigeons had been managed

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Speaker 1: by Native Americans who were wiped out by disease, so

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Speaker 1: that when the first Europeans really came along they saw

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Speaker 1: tons of pigeons. Places over roam with pigeons because there

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Speaker 1: was no one there to hunt anymore. Right, same thing

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Speaker 1: with the forest. They think there was so much forest

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Speaker 1: cover that it was because the Native Americans who had

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Speaker 1: managed the forest four had all died off, largely died off,

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Speaker 1: and then what we thought was just this crazy stretch

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Speaker 1: of forest that had always been there. It was actually

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Speaker 1: fairly new. But it's probably not the case. Well at

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Speaker 1: any rate. Way back in the six Dreds, about of

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Speaker 1: land north of Mexico was trees. Yeah, not too bad. No,

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Speaker 1: that's a lot of trees. Uh. And trees are great

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Speaker 1: because they give us wood. I mean they led to uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, pre metal. It was all about wood. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, ships, buildings, houses, wagons. William Harris, who wrote

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Speaker 1: this article, Yeah, it makes the very smart point that

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Speaker 1: we came and cut down trees and basically built a

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Speaker 1: new nation, certainly a new economy, settle new nations out

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Speaker 1: of what definitely for sure like literally out of wood.

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Speaker 1: If you're talking the world and Planet Earth about is

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Speaker 1: forest land and Russia and Brazil lead the way because

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Speaker 1: they have huge tracts of land. Yeah, but as a continent,

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Speaker 1: actually Europe is the most. They have the most forest

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Speaker 1: of any the most dense. I believe that they have

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Speaker 1: one thousand and one million, which is a little over

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Speaker 1: a billion hectares hectars point four acres. Right, the total

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Speaker 1: number of acreage if you're in the US of forest

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Speaker 1: land throughout the world one point five eight billion acres

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Speaker 1: of forests. Is that the most broad definition of the

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Speaker 1: forest that includes everything, And that's in the US. No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: that's the world one billions in the world. Yeah, because

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Speaker 1: in the US there if you if you talk to

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Speaker 1: a forester, they will say, everyone thinks that you see

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Speaker 1: a bunch of trees and that's a forest. But they

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Speaker 1: would narrow down that death finition to at least one

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Speaker 1: acre of land which has at least ten percent tree cover.

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Speaker 1: That's a pretty that's a good definition for a forest.

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Speaker 1: I'm on board with that. Well, if you're talking that definition,

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Speaker 1: then the US has about seven hundred and fifty million

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Speaker 1: acres uh, seven sixty six in Canada. And uh, that's

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Speaker 1: that's forest, my friend. Boom, we're done. Yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: a minefield, but we navigate it. But this is about

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Speaker 1: timber and that's different than for us. It is different

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Speaker 1: than for us. So a forest is that definition that

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Speaker 1: you just said. It's an acre of land with ten

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Speaker 1: percent tree cover. Right. Timberland is a type of forest land,

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Speaker 1: but it has to have a certain amount of usable

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Speaker 1: um trees on it or timber to make it timberland. Right.

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Speaker 1: I grew up in a forest actually, now that I

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Speaker 1: think about it, Oh yeah, by that definition. Nice. What

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Speaker 1: was it called. It's called Chuck's House Chuck's House forest? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it was. I think we had We had

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Speaker 1: like an acre and a half and most of it

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Speaker 1: was trees, so more than ten percent. Oh yeah, easy.

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Speaker 1: So you had a dense forest. It was pretty dense.

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Speaker 1: That's awesome. Did you learn to climb trees out there? No?

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Speaker 1: But I used to get poked fun at because it

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Speaker 1: didn't grow up in a neighborhood like most kids. It

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Speaker 1: was just a street with like six houses in the forests.

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Speaker 1: Who would make fun of you for that. What were

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Speaker 1: they saying, Well, you know, it's cool to grow up

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Speaker 1: in a neighborhood when in the eighties. Hey man, I

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Speaker 1: grew up in a neighborhood in the eighties. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: that great. I was jealous, man, because everyone else would

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Speaker 1: sneak out at night and then go to their friend's house.

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Speaker 1: And they were swimming pools and tennis courts and communist

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Speaker 1: centers and it was just like me and my brother

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Speaker 1: in woods. But I guess I can. I got older

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Speaker 1: and everyone was like, dude, your house is awesome. You

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Speaker 1: live out in the middle of the woods. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: plus you're lucky to have your brother to hang out with.

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Speaker 1: He's a great guy. True, yeah, good point. So you

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Speaker 1: know I had a door that led out to the

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Speaker 1: back porch. Was growing up. It's like, there's no sneaking out.

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Speaker 1: I just opened the door and went out from my room,

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Speaker 1: just like, go ahead, come and go as you please. No,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't supposed to, but there wasn't a lot of

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Speaker 1: sneaking involved. It was opening the door and quietly closing it.

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Speaker 1: You didn't have to. I always wanted to shimmy up

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Speaker 1: a drain pipe to my room. Have you shimmying up

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Speaker 1: or down? Down is a lot easier than not that

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Speaker 1: I could have shimmied when I was ten or twelve, though,

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Speaker 1: ain't no shimmy in anymore. We're so people have sent

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Speaker 1: in that guide posts cover. Is that you know? It's

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Speaker 1: just some other playing the trumpet? Yeah? I never played

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Speaker 1: the trumpet. It doesn't look like you, but I was

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Speaker 1: like now, and it may not have been a four

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Speaker 1: piece picture, but I think it was. Someone will find it,

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Speaker 1: I hope. So okay, so let's get back to timberland.

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Speaker 1: Timberland is a forest that's capable of growing something like

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Speaker 1: twenty cubic feet of commercial wood per acre per year.

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Speaker 1: That's right, that's it. Uh And um, people estimate two

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Speaker 1: thirds of our nation is forest land. Uh and five

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Speaker 1: hundred and two million acres of that is timberland. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's not bad, not bad at all. Now. So the

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Speaker 1: key here, though is, and this is where the big

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Speaker 1: debate comes up. We're not going to get into it

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Speaker 1: necessarily now, but the key is that, yes, you can

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Speaker 1: have a forest that is capable of growing twenty cubic

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Speaker 1: feet of commercial grade lumber timber a year. Um. But

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Speaker 1: you also wanted to be able to regrow sustainable harvesting. Right,

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Speaker 1: So what you're after is what's called the net annual increase.

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Speaker 1: This article calls it an annual gain. That's wrong. It's

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Speaker 1: a net annual increase, which means that the amount of

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Speaker 1: stuff you're growing in a given year is more than

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Speaker 1: what you're harvesting. Difference between the gain and an increase,

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying the industry term. Yeah. I looked up

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Speaker 1: net industry gain or yeah, net annual gain and they

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Speaker 1: said you must be city folk, right, it increase. Uh,

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Speaker 1: so that you just basically it's pretty simple. You just

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Speaker 1: want to take less trees than you're growing in a

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Speaker 1: particular year, or that you have than you have in reserve.

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Speaker 1: And um, actually, the United States is has been in

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Speaker 1: an annual gain for for decades now. Like it's a

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Speaker 1: it's a real concern and to cause for worry that

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Speaker 1: we over over harvest trees, well, we used to man

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Speaker 1: that we DeForest, but if you look at the historical data,

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Speaker 1: we are growing more trees than we're taking, um every year. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think the stat was since the nineteen Since nineteen

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Speaker 1: we haven't made anything worse, right, And apparently, and since

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Speaker 1: the fifties we've gotten way better. I think those four

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Speaker 1: times the seventies were like kind of bad, but I

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Speaker 1: think that was like the the transition decade. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: what this made me really appreciate we're early conservationist. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because postal of a war and during prefous civil war

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Speaker 1: even people just sort of took what they wanted and

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Speaker 1: did what they wanted with the land. There was a

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Speaker 1: lot of foresight, and so early conservationists were really fighting

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Speaker 1: an uphill battle back then. I think. So I just

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Speaker 1: have a lot of respect for them to say, you

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Speaker 1: know what, I don't know if this is smart, what's

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Speaker 1: gonna happen in a hundred years. It's like, I know,

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Speaker 1: you need your log cabin, Jebediah. What's mind boggling to

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Speaker 1: me is that that debate still goes on. Yeah, that's true,

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Speaker 1: you know, but even just with timber, with like climate

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Speaker 1: in general, climate change things like that. Agreed. All right,

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Speaker 1: So if you're a scientist, you're gonna classify forest usually

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Speaker 1: by what kind of trees are there. Um, for instance,

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Speaker 1: a tropical rainforest you're gonna have broad leaf evergreens, a

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Speaker 1: boreal forest you're gonna have needle leaf evergreens. Then there's

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Speaker 1: a temperate forest, which is like what we have here

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Speaker 1: in the southeast. Yeah. And and the US are five

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Speaker 1: major regions specific Coast, Rocky Mountain, North, South, and I

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Speaker 1: love it. Alaska has its own region, yes, just because

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Speaker 1: it's it deserves it, and there's a lot of trees

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Speaker 1: up there. Yeah. And in fact, there's been a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a scandal recently as far as Alaska and

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Speaker 1: trees go. Are you gonna is that a tease? It's

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Speaker 1: a tease, Okay. But we're gonna consider a couple of

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Speaker 1: regions here, and we're gonna mainly be talking about the

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Speaker 1: United States because that's where we live. Yeah, but there

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Speaker 1: are trees everywhere. Yeah, and you can apply this to

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Speaker 1: a lot of places. But east of the Old Mississippi

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Speaker 1: is the hardwood region and west is softwood. And if

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Speaker 1: you're talking hardwood, gums, maples, oaks, walnut, very hardwood walnut there. Actually,

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Speaker 1: now I think about I think mahogany is a tropical

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Speaker 1: rainforest tree, is it? Yeah? I'm an idiot, all right, No,

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Speaker 1: you know that's what I get for coming up with

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Speaker 1: something on my own. Uh, soft woods you're talking pine, um, spruce, hemlock,

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Speaker 1: douglas for redwoods. Those are soft woods. And we're just

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Speaker 1: getting started. There's a lot of information coming your way.

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Speaker 1: Should we take a break here? Should be? I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It sounded like you were working out towards that. That

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Speaker 1: was a break he set up, wouldn't it? All right,

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Speaker 1: let's take a break. We'll come back and we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about why wood is good? All right? What is good?

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Speaker 1: Because you can use it for lots of stuff, which

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about. And I didn't realize this that we've

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Speaker 1: been using it for a very long time, one at

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Speaker 1: least one and a half million years, right, starting with

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Speaker 1: fire and like clubs, and yeah, did you realize that

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Speaker 1: we'd harnessed fire that many years ago? I don't know

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Speaker 1: if I ever really thought about it. It has a

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Speaker 1: long time for people to be building fires a million

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Speaker 1: and a half years ago. That that completely reche It's

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Speaker 1: my ideas of hominids from one point five million years ago.

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Speaker 1: What do you think about them before? Not that they

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Speaker 1: could create fire. They're a bunch of cold dopes a

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Speaker 1: little bit so maybe that they just kind of may

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Speaker 1: do with what came their way rather than actually making fire.

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Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, we should do a podcast on the

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Speaker 1: origins of fire. We did, you went on fire? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I don't think we covered like the first fires,

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Speaker 1: did we? Or did we? Probably not? Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: I've since seen Quest for Fire, which we've talked about. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: good movie. I kind of want to talk about my

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Speaker 1: favorite part, but this is a family podcast, so I won't. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: There's it's pretty brutal in a lot of ways, isn't it?

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Speaker 1: All right? So why is wood good? Um? Like I said,

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Speaker 1: you can make stuff out of it. Another big thing

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Speaker 1: is carbon sequestration, which is why you hear a lot

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Speaker 1: of people battling clear cutting for us because carbon sequestration

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Speaker 1: is great. It traps carbon, so the build up of

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Speaker 1: CEO two is reduced. As a matter of fact, trees

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Speaker 1: count for se of the organic carbon locked in the earth. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's why that canopy is is important, right. Uh. They

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Speaker 1: also provide habitats for all our animals and birds and

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Speaker 1: insects and all the plants and good things that we love.

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Speaker 1: And uh the hydrologic cycle, souh. A forest will help

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Speaker 1: soak up rainfall and filter the water as it becomes groundwater.

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Speaker 1: All very important stuff. Yeah, if you like drinking water,

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Speaker 1: you can thank trees for helping keep the soil in

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Speaker 1: tip top shape to uh filter out all that nasty stuff. So, yes,

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Speaker 1: forests are extraordinarily important, right, what is good? But you

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Speaker 1: also can make pretty good use of it too, Like

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Speaker 1: if you're a clever primate like we humans are, who

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Speaker 1: you cannot only use it for fire, which a lot

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Speaker 1: of people still do around the world. Fire wood is

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Speaker 1: still of um huge um use of wood of timber

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Speaker 1: around the world. Nothing beats a natural wood fire in

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Speaker 1: a fireplace in your home. No, it's true, you know,

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Speaker 1: but um do you remember when we were when we

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Speaker 1: shot those Toyota, those Toyota videos that Carnegie melon, And

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Speaker 1: one of the innovation things was like a filter, like

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Speaker 1: an easy, cheap portable filter for cooking fires, indoor cooking fires,

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Speaker 1: remember that, because that was a big problem people were

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Speaker 1: like making using wood fires to cook with, but they

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Speaker 1: were doing it indoors and like suffering all sorts of

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Speaker 1: lung problems. And that still happens in uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: non industrialized nations. Yes, is that what we call things?

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Speaker 1: It's the it says, it's the prime, it's the primary

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Speaker 1: fuel for cooking and heating and developing countries non industrialized,

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Speaker 1: I think that's even better. All right. So, uh here

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Speaker 1: in the U. S. O. And and a lot of

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Speaker 1: countries these days, only seven percent of timber is used

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Speaker 1: for um, I guess heating and cooking. Yeah, there's a

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Speaker 1: big push against even that seven percent to Really it's

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Speaker 1: just such a I agree with you that firefires, but

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Speaker 1: it's wasteful. Yes, okay, Well I don't have a working fireplace,

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Speaker 1: so I just like them, you just like the idea

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Speaker 1: of it. Well, I want one, but I have one

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Speaker 1: of those old, you know houses from the nineteen thirties

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Speaker 1: that it's expensive to get it retrofitted. Have you ever

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Speaker 1: gotten an estimate on it? Yeah, I need chimney work.

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Speaker 1: I need a bigger firebox. They said something like eight

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Speaker 1: or ten grand. The guy like tried to talk me

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Speaker 1: out of it. The dude, I was like, you don't

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Speaker 1: want to make money like I want to fire And

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Speaker 1: you're like, I don't know, it's pretty expensive. I wouldn't.

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Speaker 1: All right, it's wasteful. Uh So seven percent goes toward

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Speaker 1: that lumber, which we'll get to in a minute, is

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Speaker 1: about fifty three in the u S. September. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: most of that goes to new house construction. It turns

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Speaker 1: out that makes sense pulp and paper or and then uh,

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Speaker 1: composites like ap plywooden veneer the other seven. Right, Although

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Speaker 1: I think we're missing one percentage point, aren't we? Or

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Speaker 1: are we? Yeah? I wonder what that is. It's the

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Speaker 1: mystery percent, the mystery percent. God knows what they're doing

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Speaker 1: to that one percent of wood. All right? So I

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Speaker 1: said the word lumber, and lumber isn't just cut wood. No,

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Speaker 1: just like timberland isn't just forest. Forest isn't just timberland. Right,

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Speaker 1: Lumber is actually a specific thing. It is wood that

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Speaker 1: is squared or rectangular. So when you go to the

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Speaker 1: hardware store and you see all the two by fours

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Speaker 1: and two by sixes and all that stuff, that is lumber.

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Speaker 1: Because it's sure if you point to a post around

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Speaker 1: post and go give me three of the lumbers, we'll say, boy,

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Speaker 1: where did you come from? Yeah, you're wrong on a

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Speaker 1: couple of points here. So that's called roundwood. Actually, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that that's not included in lumber. That's

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Speaker 1: at nitpicky if you're outside the industry. I think say,

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Speaker 1: I agree with you wholeheartedly, but if someone points that out,

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Speaker 1: then I don't know, punch him in the face with

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Speaker 1: the two by four. That's not that's not lumber, that's

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Speaker 1: round with Remember hack saw Jim Duggan, didn't he attack

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Speaker 1: people with the two by four and the w WF

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Speaker 1: I didn't want a ton of wrestling. I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 1: he had like a two by four. That makes sense.

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Speaker 1: It's violent. Uh, construction, it's about a fifty fifty split

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Speaker 1: with lumber. Um in the US, about half goes to

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Speaker 1: construction and about half goes to palettes, crates and furniture. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know what. I didn't know it would be that high.

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Speaker 1: I read an extraordinarily interesting article on the pallette trade.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it's there's like a whole cartel controlling palelettes

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Speaker 1: that people rebel against and um there's like palette thieves

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Speaker 1: and counterfeitters and its like just it's a really interesting art.

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Speaker 1: I'll see if I can find it. I'll post it

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Speaker 1: in the podcast page for this. Well, pallettes, you and um,

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Speaker 1: you can make a lot of cool things out of pallets,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of people are finding other uses. So

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Speaker 1: they think you can just go behind the grocery store

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Speaker 1: and take them. So now a lot of places have

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Speaker 1: big signs that are like, do not take these pallets. No,

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Speaker 1: especially if they're blue, Like, that's stealing. If they're blue paletts,

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Speaker 1: you you can get the place where you stole them

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Speaker 1: from sued. Yeah, that's the saying. If the palette is blue,

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Speaker 1: it's not for you because you'll get sued. Uh. Furniture.

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Speaker 1: If you make furniture, you're gonna like hardwood like oak

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Speaker 1: and maple, because it's durable and it has that lovely

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Speaker 1: grain that we all love so much. The softwood is

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Speaker 1: no slouch either. No, but palletts are used in hardwood

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Speaker 1: too because it's sturdy, right, But yeah, softwood is a

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Speaker 1: different deal. Now. They usually use softwood for construction lumber

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Speaker 1: to because it contains fewer knots and things like that.

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Speaker 1: And actually softwood is used chuck more form construction lumber

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Speaker 1: because you can make it long and straight, which is

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Speaker 1: that's how you want your construction lumber, long and straight.

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Speaker 1: Nobody wants like kind of a topsy turvy house. It

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Speaker 1: could be a crazy person, but most people don't. They

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Speaker 1: want straight, plumb houses. Yeah, although it's tough. If you've

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Speaker 1: ever done a home reno project to find straight lumber

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Speaker 1: these days, is that right? Yeah? You go in there

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Speaker 1: and they're they all seem like they're warped and bent.

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Speaker 1: And if you're yeah, and if you're a amateur like me,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't help you out any if your lumber is

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Speaker 1: not straight. Now you want straight? M Like, I don't

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Speaker 1: know how to make up for that. Like my buddy

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Speaker 1: Isaac in Kansas help me do my house. He would

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Speaker 1: go pick out stuff and I would say, this is curved.

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Speaker 1: He'd be like, I can account for that, huh, But

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Speaker 1: I can't. He's got like a special organ in his brain. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's called smarts, construction carpentery smarts. Okay, so that's lumber, right, Yeah. Um.

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Speaker 1: You can also make paper out of wood. This might

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Speaker 1: be the fact of the podcast. If you're ready for this,

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Speaker 1: paper is made out of wood. I thought you had

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Speaker 1: something else you got me. Have we done one on

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Speaker 1: paper before? Because this seems awfully familiar. No, but I

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Speaker 1: will say this touched off like five different topics that

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Speaker 1: we should cover, paper being one of them all the

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Speaker 1: origin ifier paper? What else? Um? Deforestation in earnest we're

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Speaker 1: gonna touch on it. But and then there was a

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Speaker 1: couple of more I think pornography just kidding. Um, So

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Speaker 1: let's talk about the uh cellular structure of wood because

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Speaker 1: it's very important. Well, especially when you're talking about paper

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Speaker 1: like that was not just a non sequitor, it actually

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Speaker 1: makes sense exactly. So trees like everything else, are made

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Speaker 1: of cells, correct, And when you take enough of these

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Speaker 1: cells and stack them together, you can create something as

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Speaker 1: strong and tall and rigid as a tree. But it

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Speaker 1: takes a certain kind cell to make a tree. Uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: the cells. If you think of the walls of the cells,

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Speaker 1: they make the tree strong. And there are a couple

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Speaker 1: of chemicals that make up these walls, cellulose and lignant.

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Speaker 1: And cellulose is flexible and bindy, and lignan says no, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm your glue. Cellulos I'm gonna keep you, um more

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Speaker 1: rigid because I don't want you to bend. So they

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Speaker 1: work together to make whether cellulus likes it or not. Yeah,

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00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,439
Speaker 1: I always wondered about that. It has to go along

401
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Speaker 1: with it. It's like I wanted to bend. Lignan get

402
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 1: out of my face, right, is like no, no coloring

403
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 1: outside the lines. Uh. So if you separate those things,

404
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 1: which we've been doing for a long time now, you

405
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Speaker 1: can get those cellulose fibers and actually make something called

406
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 1: pulp which will eventually make paper, right, and you can

407
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Speaker 1: form it into a mate press and dry it and

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00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,440
Speaker 1: bleach it and turn it into paper. Like you said,

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Speaker 1: you can also make other stuff too, um, technically fiber board,

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00:23:57,880 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 1: you know, the stuff that they used to put on

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Speaker 1: the back of dressers and things these days. Uh crude. Yeah,

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00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 1: that's actually made from paper pulp. Um. If you're if

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Speaker 1: you're at another hardware store and some guy that works there,

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Speaker 1: lady says, what you want to use as m DF

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Speaker 1: medium density fiber board, and that way they won't think

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Speaker 1: your city folk. You can say yeah, MDF, sure totally,

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Speaker 1: and then they'll know your city folk, like, give me

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Speaker 1: three of those mds. Uh. And then you have hard board.

419
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,400
Speaker 1: And that's even stronger than fiber board. Uh. And it's

420
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: just I think it's harder because it's pressed together with

421
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 1: so much pressure. It's more dense. Yeah. Fiber board is

422
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 1: pulp and glue press the press together. Hard board is

423
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:50,880
Speaker 1: the same thing, but pressed together, like you said, under

424
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 1: pressure and then completely different. Actually, although it does seem

425
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,200
Speaker 1: like it would bear a pretty striking resemblance. Is um

426
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 1: particle board, right, Yes, these are composites. Plywood and particle

427
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: boarder both composites, but they are different. The difference between

428
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: MDF and particle board is MDF is. Uh. Well, particle

429
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 1: board is cheaper and it's made out of sawdust, whereas

430
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: the MDF is is made of actual fiber right out

431
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 1: of pulp. Yeah, does that make sense? Yeah, Like Chuck,

432
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 1: you realize that stuff you should know has hit such

433
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 1: a stride, but we're talking about particle board. It just

434
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,440
Speaker 1: hit me. Plywood is when you take If you look

435
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: at plywood and on the side of it, you'll see

436
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 1: that it's a lot of little veneers pressed together. They're

437
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: called veneers veneers. Plywood is great, but if you really

438
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: want something that's just as tough, just as durable, but cheaper,

439
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: you're gonna go for the oriented strand board OSB baby,

440
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 1: which is basically like plywood made out of particle board. Yeah,

441
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:03,120
Speaker 1: and it's it's all but replaced plywood in construction these days,

442
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,399
Speaker 1: home construction because it's cheaper, Uh, it is stronger and

443
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 1: more durable, and I was wondering why it was stronger,

444
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: and it's because it comes from It's right there in

445
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: the name. It's oriented. The specific orientation of the wood

446
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: strands makes makes it stronger. So it's not just haphazardly

447
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 1: tossed together. Impressed, I guess by God, specifically oriented invented nine.

448
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: Uh yeah in California, I think. Actually, so your OSB,

449
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: if you go into your hardware store and they'll say

450
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 1: you either want M D F or os B, say,

451
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 1: I know what I'm talking about, So don't try and

452
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: don't try and trick me. Right, I didn't just fall

453
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: off of the turn of the lumber truck. All right,

454
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 1: where are we now? Are we harvesting it? Yeah? So

455
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 1: to get to this point, to get to all this

456
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: wonderful products of umber, timber. Sorry, man, I have a

457
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 1: lot of trouble not confusing lumber with timber. The lumber

458
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: is timber. Timber is not necessarily lumber. That's what I

459
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 1: was taught as a young boy. So when you harvest timber,

460
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: there's a couple of approaches, right and um, well, there's

461
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,360
Speaker 1: several approaches, but they really fall under two umbrellas. One

462
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 1: is that take everything to hell with ecology approach called

463
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: clear cutting. That is, all these trees can make some money. Ergo,

464
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 1: I'm going to cut down all these trees. Yeah, Typically

465
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: over five acres is a clear cut. Yes, anything under

466
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,679
Speaker 1: that it's called a patch cut, although people disagree on

467
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 1: that definition too. But the suggestion is that under five

468
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: acres an area that small could recover. Being effectively clear cut.

469
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: I'm not sure has to do with recovery. Oh, it

470
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 1: has to do with the amount of money made. I

471
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm not sure, all right. But with clear cutting,

472
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,120
Speaker 1: you just go in and you cut down everything. It's

473
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: um it's pretty straightforward. Really, Uh, it takes slightly more

474
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 1: thought to come up with a good what's called the

475
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: silver culture approach. Silver culture takes into account the idea

476
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: that you want that area that you cut down to

477
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 1: grow back to renew so that again you hit that

478
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: um net annual increase rather than decrease, to where the

479
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: amount of trees you have in stock or growing in

480
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: a particular year is actually more than the amount of

481
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,199
Speaker 1: trees you harvest that same year. To do that, you

482
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 1: have to be selective. You have to be smart in

483
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: the number, amount and type of trees you cut down

484
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: during any given uh tree cut. Yeah, with clear cutting.

485
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: When you hear that, you would just think like why

486
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: would anyone argue that that's a good idea? But people do.

487
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: It's very controversial. Um, if you're in the timber timber industry, yeah,

488
00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: forestry industrystry industry, you can say, um, you will think

489
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: in good confidence that you can say that clear cutting

490
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 1: is fine if you do it the right way. I

491
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 1: don't get that. Yeah, they said that there are seven

492
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 1: conditions that if you meet them then it's actually better.

493
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 1: That sounds like, do you want me to read the

494
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: seven When regenerating tree species that need full sunlight to

495
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: stimulate seeds sprouting and seedling growth. When dealing with spars,

496
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 1: or expose shallow rooted trees that are in danger being

497
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 1: damaged by wind. When trying to produce an even age

498
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: stand and a stand I found as a group of

499
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: trees that are the same species, age, and condition that

500
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: you can manage as a unit. That's a stand of trees.

501
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 1: When regenerating stands of tree species that are dependent on

502
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 1: wind blown seed root suckers or cones that need fire

503
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: to drop seed. When face with salvaging over mature stands

504
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: or stands killed by insects, disease, or fire when converting

505
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: to another tree, speed seeds by planning or seating, and

506
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: finally to provide habitat for wildlfe species that require edge,

507
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: new ground and high density even age stands. I couldn't

508
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: make sense out of anything. Well, one of it really

509
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: stuck out to me, and it was that for when

510
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: you're cutting down an entire area that's been hit by

511
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: pests or disease, that one makes sense to me, especially

512
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: if you're trying to contain an epidemic. Yeah, sure, clear cut,

513
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: that makes sense. Everything else, I mean, there were some

514
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: there's some logic to it. At least it's not just

515
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 1: total madness. Yeah. Opponents to clear cutting will say it

516
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: increases soil erosion, water degradation, increases silt in streams and rivers.

517
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: Aesthetics is the main reason that most people are opposed

518
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,239
Speaker 1: to it, or that many people are is that it

519
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: just looks like a waste land. Right. Well, the problem

520
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: is also with clear cutting, um it sets the stage

521
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: for invasive species of say like fast growing weeds, to

522
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: overcome seedlings, and it keeps the forest from regenerating. So

523
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: therefore clear cutting. Most people, I guess, except for the

524
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: people who came up with those seven conditions, tend to

525
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: believe that is it's an unsustainable method of harvesting timber, right.

526
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: A more sustainable method is shelter wood cutting. That's the

527
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: type of silver culture. Yeah, and that's when they use

528
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: partial cuttings over time. We're talking over ten or twenty years,

529
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 1: only two to four harvests where things can naturally regenerate

530
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: during that time frame. That sounds like a good idea.

531
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: It is. Um. There's also seed tree cut seed tree harvesting,

532
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: and then selection harvesting, which is where you basically go

533
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: in and say this tree, that tree, that tree. Yeah,

534
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 1: for that are more marketable. But opponents are proponents of

535
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: clear cutting say that's worse. I don't know why, though

536
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 1: I can see I can see what they're saying. I mean, like,

537
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: think about it, like you're artificially yeah, and you're you're

538
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: disrupting the balance or the ecology of the forest by saying,

539
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: just these great oaks leave all these other crumby elms.

540
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: But the thing is is you're also affecting the ecology

541
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: by cutting down everything the ecosystem. I would like to

542
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: hear from someone that really knows their stuff that is

543
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: a proponent of clear cutting to explain it better to me,

544
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 1: yeah than the internet, did please do? All right? Um?

545
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: So when you do what when you do use any

546
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,719
Speaker 1: kind of silver cultural technique and you're not just clear cutting,

547
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: you have to go through the the forest and figure

548
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: out what trees you're gonna take a lot of times,

549
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: and even with clear cutting, they will leave um trees

550
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: that are say six inches in diameter or less in

551
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: size they're too young. It's like how you um leave

552
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: uh fawns when you're deer hunting, the exact same thing.

553
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: I love the name of that process when determining um

554
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 1: and surveying the land to work it all out, It's

555
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: called cruising. I'm gonna crow cruise the forest, right. Everybody

556
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: you know drives around the forest with the pack of

557
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 1: cigarettes rolled up in their shirt sleeves. Um. Next comes felling,

558
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: and I got confused with tree felling on the correct way.

559
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: So I put a little post on Facebook, and I

560
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: had a guy named Gabriel Fribley who worked as a

561
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: forest service fire and fuel management dude, and he said,

562
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: I've cut hundreds, if not thousands, of trees. So you

563
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 1: want to hear what he says, because we would screw

564
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: it up. I guarantee it. Are you about to say

565
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: that you know better than this guy. I don't know

566
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 1: better than this guy, but this this article was definitely

567
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,239
Speaker 1: wrong from everything I found. Yeah, that's exactly why I asked. Uh,

568
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: he said. Terminology changes depending on where you are and

569
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 1: who you're talking to. There are a number of different

570
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,479
Speaker 1: ways to do so, but the safest, the most common

571
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: is to cut a wedge out of a tree. Measure

572
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: about a third of the diameter of the measuring about

573
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 1: a third of the diameter of the tree in the

574
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: direction you want tree to fall. Then you that's where

575
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: I would just stop. Yeah, my brains are shut down.

576
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,240
Speaker 1: Yeah uh then you uh. Cutting this wedge will require

577
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,280
Speaker 1: two cuts, a flat cut and then a sloping cut

578
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 1: that meets the flat cut and freeze the wedge. The

579
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 1: combination of these two cuts is commonly called the face cut. Okay,

580
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: So then the that is on the side of the

581
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 1: tree in the direction it's gonna fall, correct, and it's

582
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 1: like a triangle, yes, with one one. The bottom cut

583
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,800
Speaker 1: is ninety degrees, the top cut is forty five degrees.

584
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 1: I think, so, okay, the the wedge acts as a hinge,

585
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 1: so the tree falls in a safe, controlled manner. Then

586
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 1: there's the third cut, most commonly called the back cut,

587
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 1: which is a straight cut in the opposite side of

588
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: the tree, about halfway through the diameter of the tree,

589
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 1: maybe a little more. And that's about two inches above

590
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: the bottom cut on the other side from what I saw.

591
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 1: And he said, ideally you want to leave the diameter

592
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 1: of the tree intact between the back cutting the wedge,

593
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 1: and that's called holding wood. And I think he said

594
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 1: holding what is just what it sounds like. It holds

595
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: a tree together to make like it's not coming down

596
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,439
Speaker 1: on your head. Basically, it holds it together until you're ready.

597
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 1: And he said, if you've done these two correctly, three

598
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: actually you should be able to simply push the tree

599
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 1: over with your hands or drive a wedge into the

600
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,720
Speaker 1: back to bring the tree down. Well that that's pretty

601
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,240
Speaker 1: awesome to push a huge tree down with your hands

602
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: and Yale timber, So thank you to Gabriel Gabriel Fribley,

603
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: Thanks Gabriel. And for firefighting forest fires, yeah, that's pretty neat.

604
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:38,320
Speaker 1: Or starting them, oh, come on, no, the forestry service

605
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: does controlled burns. Oh yeah, I thought you meant like,

606
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 1: because there have been cases where they've found arson and

607
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: it was actually a fireman or is mother firefighter? Do

608
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 1: you remember that there was a dude who was a

609
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: wildfire firefighter who was not getting enough work. I think

610
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 1: that's what I was thinking. Was it the mom? The

611
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 1: mom went and a fire so that her son could

612
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:07,399
Speaker 1: make some money. Not really, but you know the mom

613
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 1: that just wants to like take care of business. First

614
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: one that's so chuck. Um. You've gone through, you've cut

615
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 1: a bunch of trees. The first thing the loggers do

616
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: is they hop all over the trees and go hp pep,

617
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:23,359
Speaker 1: pep pep, and they cut all the limbs off, right.

618
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 1: It's called bucking, yep. And then once you've got the

619
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 1: tree bucked, you cut it into huge logs from top

620
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,320
Speaker 1: to bottom. And then you tie the logs up or

621
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 1: you chain them to a tractor, and you skid them

622
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 1: along a skidding trail to um what's called the landing area,

623
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 1: all right, and they pre plan these skidding trails. Yeah,

624
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 1: this is very important, not just willy nilly, because they

625
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,959
Speaker 1: are trying to protect the forest at the same time. Yeah,

626
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,959
Speaker 1: because if you have a bunch of tractors driving out

627
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,760
Speaker 1: with lots and lots of heavy logs, heavy heavy logs

628
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 1: attached to them, you're going to compact the soil like

629
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 1: this was a tree ten minutes ago. Now it's a log. Yes,

630
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 1: huge logs, and so um, if you're gonna compact some

631
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 1: areas soil, you might as well just compact the same

632
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: area so rather than a bunch of areas of soil,

633
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: so that the rest of the forts can stay healthy.

634
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,280
Speaker 1: And when you get to the landing area, these logs

635
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 1: are gonna be basically graded and sordid, and some of

636
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 1: them are either going to be sent straight to the

637
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:29,240
Speaker 1: pulp mills to be created into paper right or fiber

638
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 1: board or something like that, and then um, others may

639
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 1: be sent in the higher grade stuff will probably be

640
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: sent to um sawmills or concentration yards, which are basically

641
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 1: the second stage of these landing areas, where um, these

642
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 1: people say we're gonna put all these specific species of

643
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: trees over here because this one sawmill likes only oaks,

644
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,359
Speaker 1: so we're gonna send them their oaks. So either the

645
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 1: landing area goes directly a sawmill, or there's that extra

646
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: step of the concentration yard in there. Yeah. And if

647
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: this sounds dangerous, um it is. And depending on what

648
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 1: year you're looking at, logging is either the one or

649
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 1: two aside from commercial fishing, most dangerous job in the

650
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: United States at least. Either way, you can find documentary

651
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 1: television shows about these professions on Discovery Channel. That's right,

652
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 1: check your local list and other channels. M this past year,

653
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:31,879
Speaker 1: I think it was commercial fishing. Airline pilot was number three.

654
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 1: I find that very unnerving. Yeah, right, what I thought.

655
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 1: It's like, I thought planes didn't crash much. What's up

656
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: with that? I don't know, well, and my fear of

657
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 1: flying just came back. Farmers and ranchers or four in

658
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 1: case you're wondering, mining machine operator, then roofers, sanitation collectors,

659
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: which I thought was interesting. Are you sure it's that

660
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 1: like military jet pilot dude, soldier wasn't even listed in

661
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 1: the top ten an airline pilot, But like I said,

662
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,359
Speaker 1: I think they go by deaths in that previous year.

663
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,359
Speaker 1: I don't care. It probably depends on if we're at

664
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 1: war or you know. Okay, but airline pilot was still

665
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 1: in there. It was uh, And then truckers and industrial machinists,

666
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:17,839
Speaker 1: especially ice robe truckers. Probably yeah, for real, I'm sure

667
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 1: among truckers that they probably have the higher mortality rate. Well,

668
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 1: you were shilling for Discovery. I think that was on History. Okay,

669
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 1: you're shilling more for Discovery now than when they owned it,

670
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: which is weird. Weird. What do you think podcaster? Is? Podcaster?

671
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: Pretty unless apparently you're on a commercial airline, like a

672
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 1: one in ten million chance of death. Yes, if you're

673
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 1: a podcaster death, you know, we can figure that out

674
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:48,439
Speaker 1: if we knew what math was. I don't. I'm trying

675
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 1: to think if, like how we would die from doing this,

676
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 1: flying somewhere to do a live podcast. Probably right, I

677
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: would say if somebody locked the door and Jerry started

678
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 1: to fire in here, right, then we could probably die

679
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: from part Actually, in our case, it would be if

680
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: Jerry finally snaps and just murders us both. I don't know.

681
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: I think we could defend Jerry all so chuck um.

682
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 1: Once the stuff hits the sawmill, we'll go there. We

683
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,359
Speaker 1: already kind of hit the pulp mill, which stink. By

684
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 1: the way, one of the foul smells on Earth are

685
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 1: those like the can I just say egg fart? No way.

686
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 1: You worse than that? Oh I thought it was like

687
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 1: that real sulfury smell. Now that's well water down in Florida. Okay,

688
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 1: this is like it's its own smell. Alright, you've surely

689
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 1: smelled it before. You ever been to a chicken farm?

690
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 1: That's okay, you're right that that might be the worst

691
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,280
Speaker 1: smell of all. Didn't you use to work on chicken

692
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: farms doing software or something not on farms? Okay, but

693
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 1: but other people in our company would go to the

694
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: farms and like teach them how to use the software.

695
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 1: It smells so bad, which is imagined that job going

696
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,760
Speaker 1: teaching these people that have been like literally counting chicken

697
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: heads for their entire life, teach them how to use

698
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,479
Speaker 1: the computer to do it. They were not receptive many times.

699
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: Talk about hunting and pecking. Yeah, there's a lot of

700
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: hunting and pecking. So um at the at the sawmill,

701
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 1: right when you're cutting up, well, when you're when you

702
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 1: get a bunch of logs, you're like, these are some

703
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 1: good logs, but I can't do much with this bark.

704
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,959
Speaker 1: It can use mulch that kind of thing, and actually bark.

705
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,280
Speaker 1: I didn't realize this bark represents basically one of two

706
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 1: organs of the tree. There's actually three. Should we talk

707
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 1: about the inside of a tree a little bit? Yeah,

708
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 1: I thought this was interesting. So the bark is the

709
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: fol um, it's the sugar conducting cells flow the flow

710
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: them and and basically it just provides energy. It transfers

711
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 1: energy throughout the tree. It's like the internal piping. Part

712
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 1: of it is the flow them. Yeah. And there's that

713
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: one bugs Bunny song. It makes like you know that

714
00:41:54,640 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 1: Bugs Bunny assembly line song, remember the power something. So

715
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 1: that's the sound that that makes if you listen very

716
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 1: carefully in the forest. True. Uh. There's another set of

717
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: internal piping uh, the tissue called the xyleum uh. And

718
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 1: they carry the xylum carries the water up and down

719
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: the tree, right, And they are well suited to do

720
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 1: so because they are like pipes. They are shaped like piping. Right.

721
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 1: So the Fulham flow that's bark, the xyleum that's the

722
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:32,839
Speaker 1: wood inside. And in between the two you have a

723
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,800
Speaker 1: thin layer that's basically stem cells. It's called the cambium,

724
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 1: and the cambium produces flow um and um xyleum cells

725
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: and it produces a xylem cells inward. Right, So the stuff,

726
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 1: the part of the tree that's closest to the bark

727
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 1: is also the youngest heartwood. That's deep Yeah, that's the

728
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 1: sap wood. Further inside, deeper into the tree, that's the

729
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 1: older xyleum, and that's the heartwood. It's just the oldest

730
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 1: part of the tree. Yes, and you when the log

731
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 1: gets to the sawmill, they're going to basically separate those

732
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 1: two things because there's different uses for sap wood and

733
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:11,799
Speaker 1: for heartwood. But the first thing they're gonna do is

734
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 1: get rid of the bark. Yeah. They put it, uh

735
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 1: in a debarking drum and it's it's kind of like

736
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 1: a nightclub. It just kind of everything rubs together. Yeah,

737
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 1: they put several different logs in and let the logs

738
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,359
Speaker 1: rub their own bark off of one another. They put

739
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 1: on a little music. It's pretty horrific. Foam machine. You're

740
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 1: a tree and uh, all of a sudden you have

741
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 1: a naked tree, right, you know, strip the skin right

742
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 1: off of it, and that bark can become a mulch

743
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 1: and uh what else? Fuel fuel pretty much? Ye, okay,

744
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 1: decorative mulchen fuel. But the Once you've got that naked log,

745
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 1: you're all set. So you want to cut the the

746
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 1: sapwood from the heartwood because the heartwood extraordinarily strong and

747
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: you use it for posts and timbers and beams and

748
00:43:57,719 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 1: things like that that you really are going to put

749
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:03,720
Speaker 1: a lot of weight on sometimes, right sometimes. And actually

750
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 1: there's another article I read once about this um like, uh,

751
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 1: this commercial diving company down in like central Florida, that

752
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 1: their whole job was they would go down in the

753
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 1: swamp and um like raise old cypress logs from the

754
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 1: nineteenth century that have just been down there since then.

755
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: And um they sell them as like reclaimed original like

756
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 1: heart of cypress for flooring people pay mind boggling amounts

757
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 1: for because this this log was felled, you know, a

758
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 1: hundreds something years ago and it just sank. It happened

759
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 1: to be one of the ones that sank, and they

760
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 1: couldn't do anything with it. Back then, there were so

761
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 1: many cypress trees that they just didn't even bother with those.

762
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 1: So now these guys go down and dive and identify

763
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: them and raise them up and then sell them. That

764
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 1: is heavy. Yeah, uh, And actually that perfect time to

765
00:44:55,080 --> 00:45:00,120
Speaker 1: mention my buddy Jason from Damn castor Guitars. He built

766
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 1: me a customed telecaster replica and they use uh old

767
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:09,360
Speaker 1: wood from a damn in Georgia that had been underwater

768
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:12,279
Speaker 1: for like a hundred years. And this thing is it's

769
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 1: the heaviest guitar. It's beautiful, but it's tough on my back?

770
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 1: Is it? Is it worth it? Though? Yeah? Man, it's

771
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 1: I mean it's gorgeous. And the wood they get is

772
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 1: really just heavy and dense and gorgeous wood. And they

773
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 1: got this big load of it from a dam that

774
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 1: they tore down and think Columbus, Georgia. And so they've

775
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 1: got all this wood now that they're making these sweet

776
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:33,279
Speaker 1: guitars out of. Would you name your guitar? I haven't

777
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 1: named it. I don't really name my guitars, although he

778
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,840
Speaker 1: wanted me to. Yeah, you gotta name your guitar. I

779
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 1: got four guitars there, one through four. You should name

780
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:46,399
Speaker 1: one Joni and one Chocci at least alright, and one

781
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 1: always keep them right next to each other, and one

782
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: Fonzie and one Ralph Mouth. Now who was Fonzie's uh

783
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:58,319
Speaker 1: leather leather tuscad arrow pink. Well, they're sisters so was

784
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 1: Pinky the younger sister. I think Leather was the one

785
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 1: that looked like Joan Jett and Pinky is the one

786
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 1: that looked like a bombshell model, like had the you know,

787
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 1: the pink sweaters and the big poofy hair. So he

788
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 1: which one did he date? I think he dated Pinky Leather.

789
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 1: She she didn't need guys she was. I think I

790
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: remember who you're talking about. I don't remember Pinky Tuskedero.

791
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:24,839
Speaker 1: I definitely remember Leather Tuscadero. Man whoever wrote that show

792
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 1: was a genius. Right, Well, what they're doing is they're

793
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 1: satisfying everyone. They're like, you like the ladies rough and tumble,

794
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: or you like them dressed up in pink with like

795
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 1: poofy hair. Right? Do you like him with an Italian name? Right? Uh?

796
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:45,399
Speaker 1: Where are we have we debarked or in like Milwaukee? Right? Yes,

797
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 1: we have deepark to answer your question. Okay, so we debarked.

798
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: You got a naked log. If it's gonna be paper,

799
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:53,439
Speaker 1: it's gonna go to a chipper, which cuts the log

800
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 1: into little little squares about two inches by a quarter

801
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 1: of an inch thick, and they're gonna mix those chips

802
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:05,359
Speaker 1: up with chemicals and stuff. They're going to uh put

803
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 1: it in a digester. It's a big pressure cooker and

804
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 1: that is what separates that cellulose from the lignant that

805
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: we talked about earlier. To get your pulp. Yeah, I

806
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 1: just want to get that lignant out of there. Yeah.

807
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 1: And it's wet, it's fibrous. They bleach it to the

808
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:24,359
Speaker 1: proper shade, mix it with water again, form it into

809
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 1: big mats, and then press them under these incredible rollers

810
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 1: to press out all that water. And then there you go.

811
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:33,879
Speaker 1: You've got what will be paper. Right. And if you're

812
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: making lumber, you send your um, your log to the

813
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:44,359
Speaker 1: scooby doo head rig is what it's called. Yeah. Man,

814
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 1: those things are awesome. The thing that people are always

815
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 1: tied on going toward and just cuts the log in half,

816
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 1: or it cuts the edges off, and maybe like just

817
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:55,800
Speaker 1: cuts out the heart. It just sort of roughs it

818
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,640
Speaker 1: out right, and then you have um a couple of

819
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 1: other types of sauce. There's a trimmer that squares the ends.

820
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:05,879
Speaker 1: Before that, you have an edger which creates the um,

821
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 1: well the edges for your lumber. And then of course

822
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 1: there's a whole other process involved in making roundwood a

823
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:17,719
Speaker 1: k A posts which are not lumber. Evidently, Uh, your

824
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 1: heartwood is gonna be um older obviously, because you know

825
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 1: how you can tell a tree by the rings, those

826
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 1: inner rings that we talked about the xyleum, right, and

827
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:30,359
Speaker 1: it's the cambium is creating more xylem cells. They're going

828
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 1: on the outside of the heartwood. Tree is growing outward

829
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 1: and they're there's just gonna be more knots in that

830
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 1: heartwood too, which is it branches past it's sturdier. But

831
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:42,319
Speaker 1: a lot of people would also be like, I don't

832
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 1: want to see knots, so they're not going to use it.

833
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 1: For I do want to see knots, depend on what

834
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: you're doing, like a good knot in the right place.

835
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 1: For instance, my guitar has a beautiful not in the

836
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 1: center of the back that's just gorgeous. Now that I

837
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:02,400
Speaker 1: would call this one pinky tuscadero, I think, okay, so

838
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 1: that's pinkcaera maybe leather to but I actually looked up

839
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 1: not so I was like, wait, what is it not,

840
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:14,359
Speaker 1: not even thinking well, of course it's just a former branch. Oh.

841
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 1: I didn't think about that either. Yeah, it's either a

842
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:20,279
Speaker 1: branch base or a branch bud that never happened. Huh.

843
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 1: Do you know not only did I not think that

844
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 1: that's what it not was, I didn't even think think

845
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 1: what it not was. Yeah, all right. And the last

846
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 1: part of that process is you got to dry this

847
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 1: stuff out. So you stack it up, sorted out, and

848
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 1: you dry it in the kiln. Correct, Yeah, all right,

849
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 1: it's like you made something out of clay. Should we

850
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 1: take a break. Let's take a break, man, and then

851
00:49:41,800 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 1: we'll take it home. So Chuck, you kind of mentioned

852
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 1: like early conservation folks that you, um were in awe

853
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:12,359
Speaker 1: of John your h John Muir was cool, weirdo um.

854
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 1: And these people they reacted to this rampant um deforestation

855
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 1: that was going on, like there was a significant amount

856
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 1: of logging that happened between the seventeenth century and the

857
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 1: mid nineteenth century, up to thirty of the original forest

858
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:29,839
Speaker 1: land by the end of the Civil War was gone. Yeah,

859
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:34,879
Speaker 1: and we're talking about a billion acres that was originally there,

860
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 1: so thirty percent of that gone, right, And there was

861
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 1: what was called they they were worried that there was

862
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 1: going to be a quote national famine of wood and

863
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 1: it wasn't just conservation at the time, Like plastics had

864
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 1: not been developed. UM. Cheap easy metal alloys weren't developed

865
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 1: until say the mid twentieth century, right, so we like

866
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 1: it was. Yeah, we really used wood a lot and

867
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 1: for also for fuel, for king, for heating, all that

868
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 1: stuff we needed would so it was gonna be a

869
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 1: big deal if we ran out of wood. And as

870
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 1: a result, a lot of people got behind these conservation efforts, UM,

871
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:14,799
Speaker 1: and especially the government here in the United States. UM.

872
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 1: All government levels owned forest land, UM, but for the

873
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 1: most part, the federal government owns the most. And they

874
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:24,880
Speaker 1: don't just protect it and say this is off limits.

875
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 1: They say, uh, you guys can come and pay for

876
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 1: the right to cut down some trees from here, but

877
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:35,839
Speaker 1: you're you're going to follow our rules. Yeah, three three

878
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 1: million acres of federally owned land in this country is

879
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 1: public forest land. So either like national forest or I

880
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 1: guess to be used by the logging industry if you

881
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:48,879
Speaker 1: meet the right conditions against Yeah, but I think even

882
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 1: national forests fall under the that that umbrellas. Yeah, I

883
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:55,920
Speaker 1: didn't mean that that they were not the same. What

884
00:51:55,920 --> 00:52:01,360
Speaker 1: what does happen sometimes UM, is say animal will be placed.

885
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:04,759
Speaker 1: An animal that calls forest land or timberland it's home

886
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:08,279
Speaker 1: will be placed on the endangered list, and as a

887
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:12,360
Speaker 1: result of that, the forest industry will just completely shift.

888
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:14,600
Speaker 1: And that was the case with the Mexican spotted owl

889
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:18,759
Speaker 1: in the nineties. So the Mexican spotted owl was on

890
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 1: its way to becoming extinct, and it made its home

891
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:27,760
Speaker 1: in the West, the western softwood temperate forests right and um.

892
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 1: The US government decided that this was enough of a

893
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:33,279
Speaker 1: problem that they put it on the endangered species list

894
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 1: and protected it. And that meant that its habitat was protected,

895
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:40,399
Speaker 1: which meant that all of this public land that all

896
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:44,440
Speaker 1: these logging companies used to go and log on, they

897
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 1: couldn't log there anymore. Like no, they didn't know. It

898
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 1: was enormous. Um. And you know that a federal agency

899
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 1: is doing its job when it's being sued by conservationists

900
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 1: and logging companies right at the same time over the

901
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 1: same thing, so or else they're not doing their job

902
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 1: at all, depending on how you look at it. But

903
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 1: eventually the Mexican spotted owl um was protected, its habitat

904
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 1: was protected, and so the forestry, the timber industry shifted eastward,

905
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:18,799
Speaker 1: and so they they the there was a shift not

906
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:22,280
Speaker 1: just in direction on the continent, but also in where

907
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 1: they were taking timber from. So now more timber is

908
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 1: taken from privately held lands in the east than public

909
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 1: held lands in the west because of the Mexican Because

910
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 1: of this one type of owl completely changed the complexion

911
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,840
Speaker 1: of the timber industry in the United States. But the

912
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:42,839
Speaker 1: timber industry is doing just fine, you know, And it's

913
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:46,360
Speaker 1: a real it's a real testimony that like they can adapt,

914
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 1: you know, the Mexican spotted owl can adapt, but the

915
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 1: timber industry can. Apparently. You ever see owls in Atlanta? Yeah,

916
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,120
Speaker 1: I have before. Why they're amazing. I love owls. Gorgeis

917
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:00,560
Speaker 1: in that wingspan. It's like it's remark coble. When you

918
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 1: see one fly, Yes, it's like, whoa that looks that's

919
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:07,239
Speaker 1: bigger than most birds. Have you ever had one like

920
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:10,000
Speaker 1: perch outside of your window while you're trying to sleep, Well,

921
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:11,760
Speaker 1: I've got we have one that lives behind our house.

922
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:14,319
Speaker 1: Does he keep you up? No, We've seen it a

923
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 1: couple of times and we hear it a lot, which

924
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:19,359
Speaker 1: I love. It doesn't like wake me up or anything. Oh,

925
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 1: we had a one that was keeping us awake. Really

926
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:24,280
Speaker 1: shoot it. No, No, that just went out and shying

927
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:27,200
Speaker 1: a flashlight in this general direction and it piped down.

928
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 1: Never heard from it again. So they got the message,

929
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 1: got you, and we were out less after that. He's

930
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 1: like that guy with the flashlight. He's bad news getting

931
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:41,720
Speaker 1: out of here. Um. Alright, So the federal government owns

932
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:45,000
Speaker 1: a lot of land which is managed managed, managed by

933
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 1: um some different bodies. Um, but it's you know, they

934
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 1: try and do their best job with things like the

935
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 1: Healthy Forest Restoration Act, signed in two thousand three by G. W.

936
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:02,120
Speaker 1: Bush all right to help protect forest land. So chuck,

937
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:04,719
Speaker 1: it's about here though that Like this is when I

938
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 1: was like, I feel like we're really wading into an

939
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:12,440
Speaker 1: explained territory forest. Yeah, there's a lot of like I

940
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,799
Speaker 1: suspect a lot of greenwashing going on, and um, so

941
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 1: I started poking around and I've I've found that the

942
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 1: Sustainable Forestry Initiative is very frequently accused of greenwashing. Yeah.

943
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:29,719
Speaker 1: So you know how like um like fair trade, Like

944
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 1: you'll look for a fair trade label and you'll be like,

945
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:33,879
Speaker 1: I'm gonna pay a little more for this because I

946
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:35,920
Speaker 1: believe that the people who made it were paid a

947
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 1: better wage than you know, this competitor that wasn't fair trade.

948
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 1: That's what the Sustainable Forestry Initiative seal of approval was

949
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 1: meant for. That you could look for it on like

950
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:48,919
Speaker 1: a ream of paper or something and say, oh, well,

951
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:53,080
Speaker 1: this thing was this paper was harvested using say, shelter

952
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 1: cutting techniques. There's some sort of silvicultural techniques that that

953
00:55:56,680 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 1: promotes sustainable forestry. The thing is is um. There's some

954
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:05,719
Speaker 1: other groups, say, like forest Ethics is a nonprofit kind

955
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:08,919
Speaker 1: of watchdog group that has come out and really aggressively

956
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 1: said that the UM, the Sustainable Forestry Initiative is basically

957
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 1: just a greenwashing front operation that's funded by paper companies.

958
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:22,480
Speaker 1: But it was international paper, international paper. UM. Uh yeah.

959
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:25,720
Speaker 1: There are a couple of others that's like think Weyerhauser

960
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:31,200
Speaker 1: was one maybe um that that fund this this approval

961
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:36,239
Speaker 1: company or organizations. From what I can tell, it looks

962
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:41,160
Speaker 1: that way. Um and yeah, it's yeah, it's very disconcerning. Fortunately,

963
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:43,840
Speaker 1: there are some that do appear to be utterly legitimate,

964
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 1: and the chief among them is the Forest Stewardship Council.

965
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:50,399
Speaker 1: They do the same thing. But they're the real deal.

966
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 1: So this article you sent me that there are a

967
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 1: lot of major brands dumping the sf I. I saw

968
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:59,239
Speaker 1: that and I was like, well, that's terrible, but they're

969
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 1: moving to the better standard. Is that correct? That's the

970
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:04,719
Speaker 1: impression I have. That makes sense now, Yeah, rather than

971
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:08,320
Speaker 1: bearing the s f I seal of approval like um

972
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 1: or buying paper that bears that seal approval, because it's

973
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:13,359
Speaker 1: not even necessarily the paper companies that are doing this

974
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 1: because they're the ones funding the s f I. It's

975
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:19,440
Speaker 1: like Office Depot is no longer buying s f I

976
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:23,680
Speaker 1: sourced paper. I'm guessing they're probably going with the f

977
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:27,680
Speaker 1: s C, the Forest Stewardship Council. So Hewlett Packard, a

978
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 1: T and t um pitney bowls all state, they buy

979
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 1: a lot of paper, shouting them out right because they're

980
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:37,040
Speaker 1: doing the right thing. It sounds like, yeah, that makes

981
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 1: more sense. I was confused. I thought they were dropping

982
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:42,920
Speaker 1: the SFI, which was a good thing. But yeah, this

983
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 1: is all clear. Now. Hey, don't thank me. Thank Forest Ethics,

984
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 1: who apparently routinely gets season then desist letters from uh

985
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:57,200
Speaker 1: paper companies in the forests or the Sustainable Forestry Initiative

986
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 1: UM and then chuck. The Force Service itself is often

987
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 1: criticized for being in bed with UM, the timber industry.

988
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 1: I'm sure they're the Alaska thing I was teasing earlier.

989
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 1: What is it? There is something called the Big Thorn

990
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 1: Timber Sale. Six thousand acres acres of seven hundred year

991
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 1: old forest in the Tongas in southern Alaska up for

992
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:29,120
Speaker 1: sale for clear cutting, clear cutting. And the problem is

993
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:32,880
Speaker 1: it is like, yes, it is, that's exactly right. UM.

994
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:34,840
Speaker 1: The problem is it is not just the people are

995
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:38,040
Speaker 1: worried that the forest won't recover, but that this forest

996
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 1: is also used by other industries like fishing industry, UM,

997
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:46,320
Speaker 1: tourism industry. These people are like, um, we're using this acreage.

998
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 1: Can't just come come in and cut it down. Here's

999
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:52,240
Speaker 1: a couple of lawsuits to stop that sale. And I

1000
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:55,200
Speaker 1: guess the federal judge in two thousand fifteen, I think

1001
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:58,760
Speaker 1: March ruled no, go ahead, You're well within your rights.

1002
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:04,280
Speaker 1: Maybe discuss thing, but go ahead and sell acres of

1003
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 1: old growth forest in Alaska for clear cutting with the

1004
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 1: presumption that it will go to a logging company. Yes,

1005
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 1: you'd be great. Is if like, oh, I don't know.

1006
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:19,520
Speaker 1: Warren Buffett bought it. He said, I'm gonna build a

1007
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:21,040
Speaker 1: small house in the middle of it. And that's a

1008
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 1: that gets should wear a cape. So, um, deforestation is

1009
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:27,360
Speaker 1: a thing, and I agree with you. We should definitely

1010
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 1: do an episode just on that, right. But that's not

1011
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:34,840
Speaker 1: the only threat to um the forests of the world. Now.

1012
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:37,640
Speaker 1: It is a serious threat, but made threats are not

1013
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:41,520
Speaker 1: the only threat. No, there's a few more natural threats. UM.

1014
00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 1: Insects of course. Uh. Specifically invasive species like the Eurasian

1015
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:51,600
Speaker 1: gypsy moth came here in the nineteenth century, and when

1016
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 1: it's a caterpillar, it eats the leaves of hardwood trees

1017
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:59,400
Speaker 1: like a lot of them. Um. To the tune of

1018
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:04,760
Speaker 1: it's nineteen thirty defoliated more than eighty million acres, so

1019
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 1: many East Coast forest eighty million acres just on the

1020
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:13,600
Speaker 1: East coast, this little caterpillar. So that's an insect disease

1021
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 1: is a problem. UM. I know here in Georgia we've

1022
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 1: sudden oak death is a big problem. Uh. And since

1023
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:25,080
Speaker 1: it was originated in nineteen where I guess found in

1024
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:31,000
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty five, say, a full forty years after that.

1025
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 1: I remember when this happened, it was probably Clinton's fault.

1026
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:38,200
Speaker 1: It was Clinton's fault. Um. Since then, it has killed

1027
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:42,920
Speaker 1: more than one million oak trees. Yeah, that's no gypsy moth,

1028
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 1: but that's a lot now. Um. And then lastly, invasive

1029
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 1: species are a real problem. Cutzo that was the other

1030
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 1: one I want to do. Yeah, oh you want to

1031
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:54,640
Speaker 1: do one on Cutzy ye so um. Cutzy was a

1032
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:57,920
Speaker 1: great example of an invasive species. It's a non native,

1033
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:01,920
Speaker 1: fast growing vine that and I think it's native. Japan

1034
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:06,440
Speaker 1: has plenty of natural predators that like to eat it right. Um.

1035
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:09,280
Speaker 1: Here in the United States, in the southeastern United States

1036
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:12,120
Speaker 1: where it was given as a gift by Japanese businessmen

1037
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:15,680
Speaker 1: in the thirties. Um, it doesn't have any natural predators

1038
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:18,040
Speaker 1: and it just grows like crazy. And the problem is

1039
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:20,760
Speaker 1: that it grows up and over trees and creates its

1040
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:24,240
Speaker 1: own It uses the tree structure and then creates its

1041
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:27,840
Speaker 1: own canopy around it. It basically creates a Dicen sphere

1042
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:33,040
Speaker 1: around a tree to to but it's it's a reverse

1043
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:35,960
Speaker 1: Dicens sphere. It's accepting the sun from the outside rather

1044
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:39,120
Speaker 1: than harvesting it from the inside. Tree death is what

1045
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 1: it means. I know that you hate seeing that, like

1046
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:43,840
Speaker 1: I just like shake my fist that it cuts you, Like,

1047
01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:47,440
Speaker 1: get off of that tree, just just stay on the ground.

1048
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:49,080
Speaker 1: But do you ever take time to go out there

1049
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:53,080
Speaker 1: and with your scissor shosht off that tree very frequently?

1050
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:57,360
Speaker 1: Um mile a minute weed is another good example. Apparently

1051
01:01:57,640 --> 01:02:02,000
Speaker 1: another Asian import that has choked the Mid Atlantic region.

1052
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:04,960
Speaker 1: I guess the lesson here is this uh. An Asian

1053
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:09,040
Speaker 1: business person ever gives you uh non native plant as

1054
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 1: a gift, Smile, politely say thank you very much. Also

1055
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 1: don't make eye contact right and say thank you very much.

1056
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:17,560
Speaker 1: But I cannot accept this gift. But would you like

1057
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:22,120
Speaker 1: to go have a lovely sushi meal? Anything else? I

1058
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:24,920
Speaker 1: got nothing else? So that is timber. If you want

1059
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:27,640
Speaker 1: go type that word into the search part how stuff

1060
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 1: works dot com. And since I said search parts, time

1061
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:35,440
Speaker 1: for listener mail. I'm gonna call this coolest tattoo I've

1062
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:38,560
Speaker 1: scene in a while. Hey, guys, listen to Satanic Panic

1063
01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:42,440
Speaker 1: today and I loved it. I loved that episode, by

1064
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:45,160
Speaker 1: the way. Yeah, we've gotten some good feedback. Jerry's even

1065
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:47,680
Speaker 1: nodding and she hates most of what we do. She's

1066
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:50,280
Speaker 1: not even aware of most of what we did. Uh.

1067
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:52,600
Speaker 1: She was born in n two this writer, and she says,

1068
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:55,720
Speaker 1: I remember family members talking about parts of our home

1069
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:59,520
Speaker 1: state of Kentucky that we're lousy with Satan worshippers. One

1070
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 1: of the things I like best in the episode was

1071
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:03,680
Speaker 1: when we talked about the influence works of fiction had

1072
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:06,400
Speaker 1: on superstition. Made me think of how I've encountered this

1073
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:08,120
Speaker 1: in my own life. I have a great love of

1074
01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:11,160
Speaker 1: wigia boards. And in fact, I don't think she's heard

1075
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:13,720
Speaker 1: the episode on wigia boards that she didn't reference it. Oh,

1076
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:15,760
Speaker 1: that was a good episode, So Carrie, we did an

1077
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:18,240
Speaker 1: episode on that. You should listen to it. I think

1078
01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:20,320
Speaker 1: they are pretty and have I have great memories of

1079
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:22,640
Speaker 1: playing with one as a kid. I have quite a

1080
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:26,600
Speaker 1: few at home, um including I have quite a few

1081
01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:30,040
Speaker 1: Wigia board items, including a tattoo on my chest. And

1082
01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 1: she attached to photo. She's got like the upper lettering

1083
01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:38,400
Speaker 1: of the wigia board, like right across, like under her neckline,

1084
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:41,520
Speaker 1: at the top of her chest. Yeah, it's and like

1085
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:46,320
Speaker 1: when she wears like a dress with that exposed, it's

1086
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:49,600
Speaker 1: just lovely looking like that pont and everything. I saw

1087
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:51,120
Speaker 1: the photo and I thought it was really cool looking.

1088
01:03:51,560 --> 01:03:54,000
Speaker 1: But of course she's people are gonna say, like, what's

1089
01:03:54,040 --> 01:03:57,680
Speaker 1: up with this girl? This has led to some very

1090
01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:00,560
Speaker 1: interesting conversations, of course with people. A lot of people

1091
01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:02,960
Speaker 1: really like it, like me, but some have been a

1092
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:05,600
Speaker 1: little freaked out by it. Thanks to movies like an

1093
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:09,320
Speaker 1: Exorcist and more recently wegia uh, the wigia board has

1094
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:10,880
Speaker 1: been given a lot more power, and I feel that

1095
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:13,080
Speaker 1: it really deserves I had my tattoo for over a

1096
01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:16,120
Speaker 1: year and have not noticed any paranormal activity surrounding me,

1097
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:18,600
Speaker 1: and I have not been possessed, and I have not

1098
01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:21,040
Speaker 1: had a demon used my chest as a doorway to

1099
01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:24,600
Speaker 1: our world. So I think I will be Okay, we'll see.

1100
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:27,720
Speaker 1: Keep up the great work that is from carry uh

1101
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:34,040
Speaker 1: parentheses like the movie, a lot of horror movie references

1102
01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:36,360
Speaker 1: in that. Yeah, I thought it was very cool tattoo.

1103
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:40,680
Speaker 1: Nice man um well carry right, that's right, Okay, Thanks

1104
01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:43,560
Speaker 1: a lot, Carrie for writing in and Uh. If you

1105
01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:45,760
Speaker 1: want to write to us, you can join us on

1106
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:48,200
Speaker 1: Facebook dot com slash stuff you should know. You can

1107
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:50,960
Speaker 1: tweet to us at s y s K podcast. You

1108
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:53,480
Speaker 1: can send us an email to stuff podcast the House

1109
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:55,760
Speaker 1: Stuff where dot com and has always joined us at

1110
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:57,720
Speaker 1: our home on the web, Stuff you should know dot

1111
01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:06,000
Speaker 1: com for moralness and thousands of other topics. Visit how

1112
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:07,720
Speaker 1: stuff Works dot com m