WEBVTT - Men In The Road

0:00:02.279 --> 0:00:05.600
<v Speaker 1>Strange Arrivals is a production of I Heart Radio and

0:00:05.680 --> 0:00:13.600
<v Speaker 1>Grim and Mild from Aaron mankey Major Keyhole, as author

0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:16.840
<v Speaker 1>of the book Flying Saucers Are Real. What is your

0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:20.640
<v Speaker 1>opinion of these new sightings of unidentified objects? With a

0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:22.640
<v Speaker 1>little due respect to the Air Force, I believe that

0:00:22.720 --> 0:00:25.400
<v Speaker 1>some of them will prove to be of interplanetary origin.

0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:29.160
<v Speaker 1>During a three year investigation, I found that many police

0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:33.599
<v Speaker 1>have described objects of substance and high speed. One case, Polished,

0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:36.240
<v Speaker 1>reported their plane was buffeted by an object which pest

0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:39.120
<v Speaker 1>them at five miles an hour. Obviously this was a

0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:41.479
<v Speaker 1>solid object, and I believe it was from outer space.

0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:48.159
<v Speaker 1>On the night of September Ninette Betty and Barney Hill,

0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:52.520
<v Speaker 1>a married couple from Portsmouth, New Hampshire, journeyed home from Montreal.

0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:56.720
<v Speaker 1>As they passed through New Hampshire's White Mountains, they had

0:00:56.760 --> 0:00:59.120
<v Speaker 1>a UFO sighting that began with a light in the

0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:02.160
<v Speaker 1>sky and edded with a close up encounter in a

0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:06.520
<v Speaker 1>field near a tourist area known as Indian Head. But

0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:09.840
<v Speaker 1>was there more to this story? They arrived home at

0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:13.960
<v Speaker 1>least two hours later than they had expected. What had

0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:20.840
<v Speaker 1>happened during that time? I'm Toby Ball and This is

0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:42.520
<v Speaker 1>Strange Arrivals Episode two Men in the Road. Shortly after

0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:48.080
<v Speaker 1>the uf encounter, on the night of September, searching for answers,

0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:51.600
<v Speaker 1>Betty Hill went to the Portsmouth Public Library, where she

0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:55.680
<v Speaker 1>checked out a book titled The Flying Saucer Conspiracy by

0:01:55.720 --> 0:02:00.480
<v Speaker 1>Major Donald E. Keyhoe. That was Major Keyhoe speaking at

0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:03.800
<v Speaker 1>a press conference at the beginning of this episode. He

0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:06.400
<v Speaker 1>was an Air Force major and the co founder of

0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:11.720
<v Speaker 1>the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena or NIECAP, a

0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:16.359
<v Speaker 1>prominent UFO investigation organization in the nineteen fifties and sixties.

0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:20.760
<v Speaker 1>We'll look at NIECAP later in this episode. The Flying

0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:24.840
<v Speaker 1>Saucer Conspiracy was published in nineteen fifty three. The basic

0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:29.280
<v Speaker 1>story is that Major Keyho investigates UFO encounters and the

0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:33.440
<v Speaker 1>government's knowledge of them. The government, of course, tries to

0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:37.359
<v Speaker 1>thwart his investigation as a piece of Cold War paranoia.

0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:42.040
<v Speaker 1>It's fascinating. As a work of nonfiction, it doesn't hold

0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:45.480
<v Speaker 1>up very well. This excerpt gives you a taste of

0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:48.800
<v Speaker 1>what the book is like. The moon could have been

0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:53.600
<v Speaker 1>inhabited long ago, been abandoned as conditions changed. It's creatures

0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:56.799
<v Speaker 1>could have reached Mars and established a civilization there to

0:02:56.960 --> 0:03:00.800
<v Speaker 1>return home only at frequent intervals. For perhaps they used

0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:03.800
<v Speaker 1>the Moon as a space base for travel to other planets,

0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:06.480
<v Speaker 1>or there may never have been a Moon race at all.

0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:10.400
<v Speaker 1>The lunar sphere could have been occupied by outsiders from Mars,

0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:14.760
<v Speaker 1>for example, or from a planet beyond our Solar System. Gradually,

0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:17.160
<v Speaker 1>a base could have been built up, most of it

0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:21.040
<v Speaker 1>underground to avoid meteor falls. The intermittent use of the

0:03:21.080 --> 0:03:23.880
<v Speaker 1>Moon is a space base would explain the strange lights

0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:26.760
<v Speaker 1>of the past two centuries, as well as the mysterious

0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:30.200
<v Speaker 1>radial cracks or lines which might be caused by intense

0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:34.640
<v Speaker 1>heat from blast offs. This unknown race might have regarded

0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:38.200
<v Speaker 1>with increasing interest our own world. They too, may fear

0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:43.240
<v Speaker 1>Our explorations. There was another possible answer. The creatures on

0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:46.520
<v Speaker 1>the Moon might be a combination of several races from

0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:50.280
<v Speaker 1>other planets. We might never know until we reached the Moon,

0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:57.160
<v Speaker 1>unless one of their spaceships landed on Earth. You have

0:03:57.280 --> 0:03:59.640
<v Speaker 1>to keep in mind that when this book was written,

0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:03.480
<v Speaker 1>near space was a real mystery. Our window on the

0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:06.960
<v Speaker 1>planets was the lens of a telescope. We didn't have

0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:10.080
<v Speaker 1>any satellites orbiting the Earth. We hadn't put a man

0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:13.640
<v Speaker 1>in space, much less on the Moon. Our knowledge of

0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:16.560
<v Speaker 1>our Solar system was much more in keeping with what

0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:19.160
<v Speaker 1>we knew in eighteen hundred than what we know now.

0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:23.600
<v Speaker 1>You could populate the planets with whatever your imagination conceived.

0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:28.039
<v Speaker 1>Eight years later, in nineteen sixty one, when Betty and

0:04:28.040 --> 0:04:31.720
<v Speaker 1>Barney had their encounter, there were fewer than ten satellites

0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:36.359
<v Speaker 1>in orbit. Right now we have more than forty six hundred.

0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:41.200
<v Speaker 1>Near space was a far more mysterious place sixty years ago.

0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:46.760
<v Speaker 1>The culture surrounding UFOs was also different. Popular interest in

0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:53.160
<v Speaker 1>UFOs dates back to June, when a pilot named Kenneth

0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:57.880
<v Speaker 1>Arnold saw nine metallic flying discs traveling at high speeds

0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:02.720
<v Speaker 1>near Mount Rainier. His story hit the newspapers two days later.

0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:07.000
<v Speaker 1>The Chicago Sun, for instance, ran a two page story

0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:13.680
<v Speaker 1>headlined Supersonic flying Saucers cited by Idaho pilot speed estimated

0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:16.880
<v Speaker 1>at twelve hundred miles an hour when seeing ten thousand

0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:21.960
<v Speaker 1>feet up near Mount Rainier. Two weeks later, in New Mexico,

0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:26.480
<v Speaker 1>the public information officer at Roswell Army Air Force Base

0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:29.640
<v Speaker 1>issued a press release stating that the five hundred and

0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:34.040
<v Speaker 1>ninth Operations Group had recovered a flying disc that had

0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:42.960
<v Speaker 1>crashed on ranch land. The modern UFO era was underway.

0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:48.039
<v Speaker 1>There's only fourteen years between those events, and Betty and

0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:54.200
<v Speaker 1>Barney's experience upology was just finding its legs. Two different

0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:58.720
<v Speaker 1>types of UFO stories emerged during the nineteen fifties. Part

0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:01.440
<v Speaker 1>of what makes the Hills account so compelling is how

0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:05.560
<v Speaker 1>drastically it differed from both of them. The first narrative

0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:09.599
<v Speaker 1>involves so called contact e s, people who claim to

0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:13.599
<v Speaker 1>have met and communicated with aliens. The most famous of

0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:18.360
<v Speaker 1>the contacts was an eccentric Polish born American named George

0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:22.279
<v Speaker 1>adam Ski. I talked to Aaron Gullias about adam Ski

0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:27.200
<v Speaker 1>and the UFO scene of the nineteen fifties. I am

0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:30.800
<v Speaker 1>Aaron Gullias. I'm a history professor and writer and host

0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:33.920
<v Speaker 1>of the podcast The Saucer Life, where I look at

0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:38.640
<v Speaker 1>Flying Saucerer history and lore in all its various forms.

0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:44.680
<v Speaker 1>George Adamski was an interesting figure because he started off

0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:48.000
<v Speaker 1>not as a flying saucer contact, but as sort of

0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:52.200
<v Speaker 1>a spiritualist guru back in the nineteen twenties and thirties

0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:55.680
<v Speaker 1>in California, with an organization called the Royal Order of Tibet,

0:06:56.279 --> 0:07:00.839
<v Speaker 1>and he developed something he called the Cosmic Philosophy. The

0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:04.680
<v Speaker 1>Cosmic philosophy was a not very remarkable mix of Eastern

0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:11.760
<v Speaker 1>philosophy and idiosyncratic Christianity. More interestingly, during Prohibition, adam Ski

0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:14.560
<v Speaker 1>got permission for the Royal Order of Tibet to make

0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:18.880
<v Speaker 1>wine for religious purposes. He made enough, he said, for

0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:22.360
<v Speaker 1>all of southern California, and he made quite a bit

0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:27.480
<v Speaker 1>of money. But prohibition ended, and with it Adamski's winemaking.

0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:33.200
<v Speaker 1>Then he in the nineteen forties, as the Flying Saucer

0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:38.080
<v Speaker 1>Craze begins, writes a science fiction novel called Pioneers of Space,

0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:40.640
<v Speaker 1>which has a crew of people in a rocket ship

0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:44.440
<v Speaker 1>going to various planets in the Solar System and meeting

0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:49.040
<v Speaker 1>Martians on Mars, and Venusians on Venus and Moon, and

0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:51.960
<v Speaker 1>nights on the Moon, and all of these people in

0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:56.040
<v Speaker 1>all these different civilizations have societies that are far in

0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:59.160
<v Speaker 1>advanced of what we have here on the Earth. In

0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:03.520
<v Speaker 1>the early nineteen fifties, he begins taking photographs of what

0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:07.760
<v Speaker 1>he claims are flying saucers. You can find adam Ski's

0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:11.000
<v Speaker 1>photos on the Internet. The saucer has been identified as

0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:14.200
<v Speaker 1>a model constructed from a German medical lamp and three

0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:20.800
<v Speaker 1>light bulbs. In nineteen fifty two, he has a meeting

0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:25.720
<v Speaker 1>in the desert with a being from a flying saucer

0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:29.840
<v Speaker 1>and he communicates through gestures, and he's from the planet Venus.

0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:35.439
<v Speaker 1>The Venusians are concerned because of atomic explosions they've detected

0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:39.320
<v Speaker 1>coming from the Earth that this might spell doom for

0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:43.320
<v Speaker 1>the balance of the Solar System. These other civilizations have

0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:48.040
<v Speaker 1>already passed beyond this stage of development that Earth is in.

0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:52.360
<v Speaker 1>Not only did the Venusians come from an advanced and

0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:57.480
<v Speaker 1>enlightened civilization, they were, according to Adam Ski, kind of hot.

0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:00.280
<v Speaker 1>This is from an interview Adam Ski did it with

0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:05.800
<v Speaker 1>radio host long John Nevile. Yeah, a man about a

0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:11.120
<v Speaker 1>fight with a seven to eight inches and I would

0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:15.559
<v Speaker 1>say around a d and thirty five pounds of quite

0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:23.080
<v Speaker 1>delicate hands. Uh, the tapered fingers and beautiful a very

0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:26.360
<v Speaker 1>sharp eyes looked like they looked right through you. Sometimes

0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:28.680
<v Speaker 1>you couldn't hardly tell what he was really a man

0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:34.320
<v Speaker 1>or a woman. And the long hair waving sure resting

0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:38.120
<v Speaker 1>on his shoulders. He kind of a half away smile,

0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:41.520
<v Speaker 1>and put his hand down and shake and it was

0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:44.520
<v Speaker 1>a pump to pump contact anyway, and he smiled. He

0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:48.760
<v Speaker 1>started telling me things and I couldn't understand, and I

0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:54.080
<v Speaker 1>finally got the idea, I want to know where he's from.

0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:57.160
<v Speaker 1>I pointed to the Sun and I made one or

0:09:57.320 --> 0:10:01.120
<v Speaker 1>it haland Mercury named it, and then Venish and then

0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:04.400
<v Speaker 1>Earth and pointed on myself and they art, and then

0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:07.240
<v Speaker 1>I said, we are you from? They got the idea.

0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:10.920
<v Speaker 1>He finally pointed to the Sun and he made one

0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:15.520
<v Speaker 1>orbit and saying nothing, made a second orbit and he

0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:19.160
<v Speaker 1>pointed to himself and to that orbit, and that meant Venish.

0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:24.960
<v Speaker 1>That's how I knew he was Venetian. It's hard to

0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:30.440
<v Speaker 1>imagine anyone taking this very seriously. Back in the nineteen fifties,

0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:33.920
<v Speaker 1>it was very much akin to to science fiction fandom.

0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:37.800
<v Speaker 1>And you get the impression that even when they don't

0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:42.559
<v Speaker 1>believe every word of something that somebody like Adam Ski wrote,

0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:47.240
<v Speaker 1>they recognize the value of his message, which honestly, I

0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:49.199
<v Speaker 1>think is what Adam Ski was trying to get across

0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:52.360
<v Speaker 1>the flying Saucers. We can take or leave, but his

0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:56.080
<v Speaker 1>consistent message of humanity needing, needing, to ascend to a

0:10:56.160 --> 0:11:00.480
<v Speaker 1>higher moral plane that predates his saucer stories, goes back

0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:03.160
<v Speaker 1>to his stuff he was doing in the twenties and thirties.

0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:06.319
<v Speaker 1>So you have the contact e s spreading this story

0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:10.719
<v Speaker 1>of peace, fellowship and high spiritual attainment. But there was

0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:14.560
<v Speaker 1>another track of interest in UFOs what Aaron calls the

0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:18.400
<v Speaker 1>nuts and bolts people, people who took a more scientific

0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:22.240
<v Speaker 1>approach trying to determine what was causing these reports of

0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:26.200
<v Speaker 1>unidentified craft in the skies. Among its ranks were many

0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:33.280
<v Speaker 1>professionals such as journalists, scientists, and military personnel. There's also

0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:38.040
<v Speaker 1>from the nuts and bolts people a deep disdain for contact.

0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:41.199
<v Speaker 1>He is um for for sort of making UFOs or

0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:45.240
<v Speaker 1>flying saucers, something that's easy to laugh at, which brings

0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:49.920
<v Speaker 1>us back to Major Keyhoe. Donald Kehoe wasn't the founder

0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:52.360
<v Speaker 1>of NIGHTCAP, but he took control of it very quickly.

0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:57.800
<v Speaker 1>NIGHTCAP is the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomenon and

0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:01.880
<v Speaker 1>in its earliest incarnation in nineteen fifties, it's governing board

0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:04.720
<v Speaker 1>had people who had been connected with the military and

0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:08.800
<v Speaker 1>intelligence and and government circles at the national level, and

0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:12.679
<v Speaker 1>Donald Kehoe, who was an aviation journalist and Marine Corps

0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:17.280
<v Speaker 1>major took a very common sense approach to UFOs. In

0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:20.600
<v Speaker 1>a lot of ways, these are strange objects flying in

0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:24.760
<v Speaker 1>our skies. They are behaving in ways that our technology can't.

0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:28.880
<v Speaker 1>The Air Force has been interested in them. Therefore, the

0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:33.160
<v Speaker 1>Air Force must know something about these craft that we

0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:36.079
<v Speaker 1>do not know and that they refused to tell us.

0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:42.479
<v Speaker 1>So Nightcapp's mission from very early on was in attempting

0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:47.760
<v Speaker 1>to get the handling of UFOs. The investigation of UFOs

0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:53.360
<v Speaker 1>moved away from the Air Force toward more civilian investigation

0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:58.960
<v Speaker 1>efforts to have government hearings and civilian government sponsored research

0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:02.120
<v Speaker 1>into the UFO phenomenon, because the Air Force would just

0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:08.760
<v Speaker 1>keep everything secret. This secrecy is a main theme of

0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:15.160
<v Speaker 1>the Flying Saucer conspiracy. Nightcap saw the Air Force's approach

0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:19.880
<v Speaker 1>as being unhelpful to solving the mystery and believed that

0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:24.360
<v Speaker 1>if only Congress would authorize a big research project, we

0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:26.080
<v Speaker 1>might be able to get to the bottom of this

0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:28.080
<v Speaker 1>and get the Air Force out of the picture and

0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:30.800
<v Speaker 1>force them to maybe bring forth what they know and

0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:34.880
<v Speaker 1>admit whatever the truth might be about it. But Nightcap

0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:39.080
<v Speaker 1>was was very much focused on sightings on evidence on

0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:43.560
<v Speaker 1>on very detailed, careful reports from witnesses. They had no

0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:47.160
<v Speaker 1>time for contact ease, They had no time for anything

0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:55.040
<v Speaker 1>they saw as as silly in Nightcap would be the

0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:57.440
<v Speaker 1>first group Betty and Barney Hill would reach out to

0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:04.280
<v Speaker 1>with their story Strange arrivals will return in a moment.

0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:22.320
<v Speaker 1>At the time of the Hills encounter, Nightcap was the

0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:28.920
<v Speaker 1>most prominent UFO investigation organization in the country. They had

0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:33.400
<v Speaker 1>over five thousand members in chapters across the US. By

0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:38.640
<v Speaker 1>the sixties, membership had grown to fourteen thousand. Among its

0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:44.000
<v Speaker 1>ranks were many professionals such as journalists, scientists, and military personnel.

0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:51.680
<v Speaker 1>After reading Donald Keyhos The Flying Saucer Conspiracy, Betty contacted Nightcap.

0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:56.240
<v Speaker 1>They sent an astronomer named Walter Webb to investigate in

0:14:56.240 --> 0:15:01.760
<v Speaker 1>October of n a month after the encounter. This early

0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:05.400
<v Speaker 1>investigation was mostly concerned with establishing the events that we

0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:09.200
<v Speaker 1>looked at in episode one. Here's a passage from Webb's

0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:12.000
<v Speaker 1>report on his meeting with the Hills, as read by

0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:15.360
<v Speaker 1>an actor. It gives you a sense of his conclusions.

0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:20.360
<v Speaker 1>Following my initial six hour interrogation of the witnesses on

0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:25.040
<v Speaker 1>October one, nineteen, I was of the opinion the Hills

0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:27.920
<v Speaker 1>were telling the truth and that the first encounter with

0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:32.600
<v Speaker 1>the UFO occurred exactly as reported, except for minor uncertainties

0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:36.880
<v Speaker 1>and technicalities that must be tolerated in any such observation

0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:41.000
<v Speaker 1>where human judgment is involved, i e. Exact time and

0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:45.880
<v Speaker 1>length of visibility, apparent sizes of object and occupants, distance

0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:50.800
<v Speaker 1>and height of object, etcetera. Although their occupations did not

0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:55.000
<v Speaker 1>qualify the witnesses as scientific observers, I was impressed by

0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:59.080
<v Speaker 1>their intelligence, apparent honesty, and obvious desire to get at

0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:02.280
<v Speaker 1>the facts and to play the more sensational aspects of

0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:05.360
<v Speaker 1>the siding. Neither witness had read any books on the

0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:10.080
<v Speaker 1>UFO subject before the siding. Mr. Hill especially had been

0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:14.160
<v Speaker 1>a complete UFO skeptic before the experience. He's still to

0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:24.560
<v Speaker 1>test the term flying saucer. Two things changed for Betty

0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:29.360
<v Speaker 1>and Barney after the ufone counter. First, Betty had vivid

0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:33.360
<v Speaker 1>dreams of being kidnapped and brought aboard a craft. They

0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:36.200
<v Speaker 1>were so unusual that she began to think they might

0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:39.760
<v Speaker 1>be subconscious memories of an actual abduction. On the night

0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:45.160
<v Speaker 1>of the encounter. In November, she wrote about her dreams

0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:49.400
<v Speaker 1>in a document titled Dreams or Recall. We'll take a

0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:53.240
<v Speaker 1>closer look at these dreams later in the series, but

0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:58.560
<v Speaker 1>in introducing the dreams, she writes, I will attempt to

0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:02.360
<v Speaker 1>tell my dreams in chronic logical order, although they were

0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:06.359
<v Speaker 1>not dreamed in this way, and in fact the first

0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:11.920
<v Speaker 1>dream told was the last one dreamed. My emotional feelings

0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:15.560
<v Speaker 1>during this part was of terror, greater than I had

0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:24.720
<v Speaker 1>ever believed possible. The second thing was that Barney's health

0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:28.359
<v Speaker 1>took a turn for the worse. He developed a circular

0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:33.080
<v Speaker 1>pattern of warts around his groin, His mental health deteriorated,

0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:37.480
<v Speaker 1>and he began to suffer from ulcers. But he explained

0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:43.760
<v Speaker 1>this during a talk she gave in Connecticut. Then Barney's

0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:47.760
<v Speaker 1>health began to fail and to the point that he

0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:53.119
<v Speaker 1>became totally disabled. He would not responding the medication. His

0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:57.480
<v Speaker 1>doctor thought that maybe he has some kind of emotional problem,

0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:00.760
<v Speaker 1>so he sent Bonnie to a friend of his, a psychiatrist,

0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:04.480
<v Speaker 1>and Biling is going in talking about his early childhood

0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:08.040
<v Speaker 1>and his mother and his wild We're not al This

0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:12.439
<v Speaker 1>psychiatrist was Duncan Stevens, and his office was an Exeter,

0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:19.640
<v Speaker 1>New Hampshire. Here's Barney Hill from a man sixty six

0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:24.359
<v Speaker 1>appearance on the Alan Douglas Show. I had an altar

0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:29.639
<v Speaker 1>that has not bothered him, but he then began to

0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:33.720
<v Speaker 1>bother me, and it did not respond to any medication

0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:37.840
<v Speaker 1>from the medical cospel, and so h He then decided

0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:41.760
<v Speaker 1>about a possibly it had some kind of psychological origin

0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:46.679
<v Speaker 1>or cause that continued so that it persisted in we

0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:55.119
<v Speaker 1>maybe causing this distress with the UFO encounter was mostly

0:18:55.160 --> 0:19:00.280
<v Speaker 1>ignored during these sessions, but in nineteen sixty three, Dr

0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:04.359
<v Speaker 1>Stevens felt that Barney could benefit from hypnosis therapy and

0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:08.960
<v Speaker 1>referred him to the esteemed Boston based psychiatrist Dr Benjamin Simon.

0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:13.600
<v Speaker 1>Dr Simon was famous for his work with returning soldiers

0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:18.720
<v Speaker 1>suffering from what we would now call PTSD. Betty went

0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:23.959
<v Speaker 1>along with Barney to the first appointment. This is Kathleen Martin,

0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:30.760
<v Speaker 1>Betty Hill's niece and an experienced UFO investigator. She indicated

0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:33.520
<v Speaker 1>to Dr Simon that she would like to be hypnotized

0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:36.679
<v Speaker 1>as well, so he agreed to hypnotize the two of

0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:41.520
<v Speaker 1>them separately and to reinstate amnesia because they had amnesia

0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:49.600
<v Speaker 1>for the events that occurred with Dr Fireman Umber that individually,

0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:55.680
<v Speaker 1>and he also gave us amnesia at the end of reason,

0:19:56.400 --> 0:20:00.080
<v Speaker 1>so that we could not remember when had happened, and

0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:02.680
<v Speaker 1>that's why we couldn't talk about it. He had worked

0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:04.919
<v Speaker 1>with us quite a bit, and then he opened up

0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:11.359
<v Speaker 1>the amnesias so we could what had happened. For a time,

0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:15.200
<v Speaker 1>Dr Simon ensured that Barney and Betty could not recall

0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:18.960
<v Speaker 1>the content of their sessions. This was to prevent further

0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:22.199
<v Speaker 1>trauma and to keep them from discussing the memories that

0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:27.119
<v Speaker 1>had come up under hypnosis. Eventually, Dr Simon played the

0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:30.119
<v Speaker 1>tapes back to the Hills so that they could process

0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:36.080
<v Speaker 1>what they had recovered during hypnotic regression. Leader tell me something.

0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:43.040
<v Speaker 1>Over the course of these sessions, a story emerged, a

0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:46.080
<v Speaker 1>story that explained what had happened during the early hours

0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:51.280
<v Speaker 1>of September, a story that seemed to fill in the

0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:55.719
<v Speaker 1>missing time from their trip. It starts with Barney, for

0:20:55.760 --> 0:21:03.280
<v Speaker 1>no apparent reason, turning off the highway. What they revealed,

0:21:03.600 --> 0:21:09.000
<v Speaker 1>and they did this separately, is that somehow they found

0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:13.880
<v Speaker 1>themselves on a new road. They were tall trees all around.

0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:18.640
<v Speaker 1>Barney turned then onto a dirt road. It's my understanding.

0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:24.680
<v Speaker 1>Betty consciously recalled him moving the car, almost stopping them,

0:21:24.680 --> 0:21:28.320
<v Speaker 1>but almost screeching the brakes and turning towards the left.

0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:32.440
<v Speaker 1>And so they went down this dirt road, and standing

0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:35.960
<v Speaker 1>in the dirt road were men and they were holding

0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:38.600
<v Speaker 1>One of them was holding some kind of lighted thing

0:21:38.680 --> 0:21:42.520
<v Speaker 1>in its hand. There was a red orange glow in

0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:50.040
<v Speaker 1>the background. Again from Barney's radio interview. Can you describe

0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:56.480
<v Speaker 1>are you? Are you able to describe well? When I

0:21:56.560 --> 0:21:59.159
<v Speaker 1>saw them in the headlights of the car before the

0:21:59.240 --> 0:22:03.199
<v Speaker 1>lights went out, they were in dart stimular kinds of

0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:06.000
<v Speaker 1>dan and I called it a uniform, which I thought

0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:11.159
<v Speaker 1>as a p jacket. I also understand Allan that in

0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:15.240
<v Speaker 1>critical situation we continually try to put things into the

0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:18.280
<v Speaker 1>frame of reference that we can identify with as a

0:22:18.359 --> 0:22:21.359
<v Speaker 1>natural thing, so that I thought of the uniforms being

0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:29.040
<v Speaker 1>much like a jacket. On March seven, during a hypno

0:22:29.080 --> 0:22:33.919
<v Speaker 1>secession in Dr Simon's Boston office, Betty relived what happened

0:22:33.920 --> 0:22:38.719
<v Speaker 1>on this remote stretch of road. I thought, well, you know,

0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:41.240
<v Speaker 1>they in a car and the cat broke it down,

0:22:41.359 --> 0:22:46.840
<v Speaker 1>or what are they doing there? And Donnie said to stop,

0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:54.639
<v Speaker 1>and then he stops the calf and these had status

0:22:55.320 --> 0:23:03.000
<v Speaker 1>come up to the calf. They they separated. They came

0:23:03.119 --> 0:23:07.040
<v Speaker 1>up in two groups. And when they started to do that,

0:23:08.119 --> 0:23:15.399
<v Speaker 1>I get real scared. Yeah, the car motor died the

0:23:15.560 --> 0:23:19.560
<v Speaker 1>cast off, and whether he started covering up val He

0:23:19.640 --> 0:23:24.359
<v Speaker 1>tried to start the car. He tried to start it.

0:23:24.520 --> 0:23:27.600
<v Speaker 1>And you know how a mote of a cow just

0:23:27.720 --> 0:23:33.440
<v Speaker 1>turn over turn over at WoT five. Yeah, he's trying

0:23:33.440 --> 0:23:39.440
<v Speaker 1>to stomach you did what. He's trying to start the car.

0:23:39.560 --> 0:23:44.480
<v Speaker 1>It won't start. Because then just and I think, well,

0:23:45.560 --> 0:23:47.399
<v Speaker 1>I can't get away from this. I can if I

0:23:47.440 --> 0:23:49.400
<v Speaker 1>get the car door up like a brother than wit

0:23:49.560 --> 0:23:54.160
<v Speaker 1>and ide and I was thinking of and I just

0:23:54.359 --> 0:23:57.800
<v Speaker 1>put my head on the car door and open up it.

0:23:58.000 --> 0:24:02.080
<v Speaker 1>Just the may come up and they open it for me.

0:24:04.080 --> 0:24:08.480
<v Speaker 1>And they opened the cat door. And this very big

0:24:08.520 --> 0:24:22.920
<v Speaker 1>bit and this what next day is this? Who there's

0:24:22.920 --> 0:24:26.159
<v Speaker 1>a couple of bits behind me. Is that this body

0:24:26.440 --> 0:24:34.600
<v Speaker 1>is okay, this is a bandit each side of him

0:24:34.640 --> 0:24:38.640
<v Speaker 1>and my eyes are opened. My body is still asleeps

0:24:38.760 --> 0:24:46.400
<v Speaker 1>he's lacking it. He's asleep. And then I think gonna

0:24:46.440 --> 0:24:50.920
<v Speaker 1>get bad, And they go, oh the heck are these

0:24:51.280 --> 0:24:55.560
<v Speaker 1>characters and what do they think that's going. Yes, So

0:24:55.680 --> 0:25:01.200
<v Speaker 1>I turn aroundinized the body. I got, why don't you

0:25:01.440 --> 0:25:11.040
<v Speaker 1>wake up? If he doesn't Patty attend? Should he keeps walking?

0:25:13.880 --> 0:25:16.920
<v Speaker 1>I keep going a little bit further and I turned

0:25:16.920 --> 0:25:19.800
<v Speaker 1>around it I say his name to get body wake up.

0:25:21.040 --> 0:25:26.600
<v Speaker 1>He doesn't pay attention that the man who's walking beside

0:25:26.760 --> 0:25:35.280
<v Speaker 1>me here, he says, Oh, is his name Unnie? Yes,

0:25:36.960 --> 0:25:40.000
<v Speaker 1>that's her round. I looked at this man and I

0:25:40.119 --> 0:25:43.639
<v Speaker 1>said it's none of his business. So I didn't speak

0:25:43.720 --> 0:25:49.560
<v Speaker 1>to him. Did we keep walking? Did I try to

0:25:49.600 --> 0:25:52.119
<v Speaker 1>wake Batty up again? I can see a batty body

0:25:52.160 --> 0:25:55.280
<v Speaker 1>wake up, and he doesn't. So the man said he

0:25:55.440 --> 0:25:58.120
<v Speaker 1>can't ask me again. He said he's biding his name.

0:26:00.080 --> 0:26:04.200
<v Speaker 1>Did I wouldn't ask him? So that he says, He says,

0:26:04.640 --> 0:26:09.960
<v Speaker 1>you don't be afraid. You don't have any reason to

0:26:10.080 --> 0:26:17.800
<v Speaker 1>be afraid. We wasn't I gonna have you, but we

0:26:17.920 --> 0:26:23.280
<v Speaker 1>just want to do some test with a tense of

0:26:23.400 --> 0:26:27.240
<v Speaker 1>rowful women. We'll take you a body back and put

0:26:27.320 --> 0:26:32.080
<v Speaker 1>you with your car. You'll be a you way back

0:26:32.160 --> 0:26:39.600
<v Speaker 1>home in no time. So he was sort of reassuring

0:26:39.720 --> 0:26:44.880
<v Speaker 1>it away. But I wasn't get his trusted what he said,

0:26:46.720 --> 0:26:48.879
<v Speaker 1>and I wasn't sure what was going to happen, and

0:26:48.960 --> 0:26:53.680
<v Speaker 1>we kept the body was told asleep, and then we

0:26:53.840 --> 0:27:06.680
<v Speaker 1>came to that's clearing h and I wish it was

0:27:06.840 --> 0:27:08.520
<v Speaker 1>lighter so I could get a been a pink ju

0:27:08.680 --> 0:27:15.000
<v Speaker 1>hunt up. There was a ramp and it don't want

0:27:18.000 --> 0:27:21.159
<v Speaker 1>there was the object was on the grab It was

0:27:21.240 --> 0:27:24.480
<v Speaker 1>I say what I was watching as the sky and

0:27:24.520 --> 0:27:27.080
<v Speaker 1>there were trees and there was a pass and there

0:27:27.160 --> 0:27:31.359
<v Speaker 1>was a claring at this object, just the clary I

0:27:31.400 --> 0:27:34.320
<v Speaker 1>could see just about filled up filled up the clearing

0:27:37.840 --> 0:27:42.679
<v Speaker 1>and they're taking me up to the object. I had

0:27:42.680 --> 0:27:46.960
<v Speaker 1>a lot of a lot of I I don't know

0:27:47.040 --> 0:27:48.800
<v Speaker 1>what's going to happen to like a lot of I

0:27:48.880 --> 0:27:55.720
<v Speaker 1>don't want to go? Yes, I go up the ramp?

0:27:57.800 --> 0:28:05.240
<v Speaker 1>Should I go inside? These weren't Georgia Adamski's beautiful space

0:28:05.320 --> 0:28:11.359
<v Speaker 1>piece next But what were they and what did they want? Next?

0:28:11.440 --> 0:28:18.720
<v Speaker 1>Time on Strange Arrivals. Strange Arrivals is a production of

0:28:18.800 --> 0:28:21.600
<v Speaker 1>I Heart Radio and Grim and Mild from Aaron Manky.

0:28:22.400 --> 0:28:25.080
<v Speaker 1>This episode was written and hosted by Toby Bowl and

0:28:25.160 --> 0:28:29.040
<v Speaker 1>produced by Miranda Hawkins and Josh Thane, with executive producers

0:28:29.080 --> 0:28:33.080
<v Speaker 1>Alex Williams, Matt Frederick and Aaron Manky. Betty Hill was

0:28:33.160 --> 0:28:37.560
<v Speaker 1>portrayed by Gina Rickicki. Walter Webb was voiced by Michael J. Weaver.

0:28:38.800 --> 0:28:42.040
<v Speaker 1>Special thanks to the MILNS Special Collections and Archives at

0:28:42.040 --> 0:28:47.280
<v Speaker 1>the University of New Hampshire, John Horrigan, w y A

0:28:47.480 --> 0:28:51.200
<v Speaker 1>M in Norwich, Connecticut, John White, and David O'Leary, the

0:28:51.320 --> 0:28:55.840
<v Speaker 1>executive producer of the History Channel's dramatic series Project Bluebook.

0:28:56.520 --> 0:28:58.560
<v Speaker 1>Learn more about the show over at grimm and mil

0:28:58.680 --> 0:29:01.760
<v Speaker 1>dot com. For a more podcasts from I Heart Radio,

0:29:01.880 --> 0:29:05.240
<v Speaker 1>visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

0:29:05.400 --> 0:29:09.320
<v Speaker 1>you listen to your favorite shows. H