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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet, as a production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd and this

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Speaker 1: is there Are No Girls on the Internet. By now

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Speaker 1: you know that. On October seven, the Palestinian militant group

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Speaker 1: Hamas launched an attack on Israel. Hamas fighters entered communities

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Speaker 1: near the Gaza Strip where a music festival is happening,

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Speaker 1: killing hundreds of people and taking dozens of hostages. BBC

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Speaker 1: published a really helpful breakdown of what's going on and

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Speaker 1: how we got here that we'll put in the show notes.

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Speaker 1: BBC writes that although the attack was quote unexpected, it

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Speaker 1: came at a time of soaring Israeli Palestinian tensions. This

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Speaker 1: year has been the deadliest on record for Palestinians who

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Speaker 1: live in the Israeli occupied West Bank, which could have

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Speaker 1: motivated Hamas to strike Israel with a spectacular attack. Now,

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Speaker 1: this whole situation is truly heartbreaking. It is heartbreaking to

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Speaker 1: hear about the laws of life in Israel, and it's

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Speaker 1: heartbreaking to hear about what's happening to the Palestinian people.

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Speaker 1: According to Axios, more than one thousand, five hundred and

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Speaker 1: thirty Palestinians and one thousand, two hundred Israelis have been killed.

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Speaker 1: Thousands more have been injured since the latest fighting between

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Speaker 1: Israel and Hamas began. Hamas is believed to be holding

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Speaker 1: about one hundred and fifty hostages in Gaza. The UN

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Speaker 1: Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs set on Friday

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Speaker 1: the number of Palestinians displaced in Gaza has risen to

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Speaker 1: over four hundred and twenty three thousand amid the intensified

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Speaker 1: fighting and the things seem to be getting worse quickly.

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Speaker 1: According to Axios, the Israeli Ministry of Defense and the

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Speaker 1: IDEF notified the human to evacuate its staff and to

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Speaker 1: notify Palestinians living in northern Gaza that they should evacuate

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Speaker 1: the southern part of the Gaza Strip in the next

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Speaker 1: twenty four hours, which is really not something they could do.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about over a million people, So yeah, it

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Speaker 1: is a bad situation that is escalating quickly and making

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Speaker 1: everything worse. Is that Twitter, which at one time was

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Speaker 1: the best place to follow rapidly changing global news and

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Speaker 1: to get updates from folks on the ground during complex

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Speaker 1: situations like this one, is completely broken. It's full of insidiary,

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Speaker 1: inflammatory and false claims, and to me, it really taps

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Speaker 1: into so much about what I know about disinformation, especially

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Speaker 1: how disinformation functions to tap into emotional tense situations like

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Speaker 1: this one. Now, this obviously is not new, but what

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Speaker 1: does feel new is just how bad things are now.

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Speaker 1: Twitter is a platform that has always had its problems.

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Speaker 1: I will be the first person to tell you about

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Speaker 1: all of them. But before Elon Musk, it used to

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Speaker 1: be the best platform for following breaking news stories as

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Speaker 1: they unfolded. But now Twitter is simply not a place

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Speaker 1: I can recommend people follow to get accurate information, Like

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Speaker 1: I honestly feel like I need to say that one

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Speaker 1: more time and really emphasize it. At this point, I

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Speaker 1: think whatever you read on Twitter, especially whatever you read

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Speaker 1: about this specific conflict between Hamas and Israel, need to

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Speaker 1: be taken with a huge grain of salt and really

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Speaker 1: read with skepticism and critical thinking because Twitter is simply

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Speaker 1: no longer a platform where accurate information can be counted on.

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Speaker 1: And yes, you know, all social media platforms are like

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Speaker 1: this to a degree. When some new diet fad or

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Speaker 1: new diet tip pops up on TikTok. You should definitely

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Speaker 1: be wary of just taking it at face value. We've

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Speaker 1: always known that about information we get on social media,

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Speaker 1: but what's going on with Twitter specifically is different. As

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Speaker 1: someone who studies disinformation and media, it is unlike anything

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Speaker 1: I have ever seen, and I'm hearing the same thing

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Speaker 1: from other folks in the disinformation space too, like political scientists.

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Speaker 1: Ian Bremmer, the president of Eurasia Group, a political risk consultancy, wrote, quote,

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Speaker 1: the level of disinformation on Israel Hamas war being algorithmically

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Speaker 1: promoted on Twitter is unlike anything I've ever been exposed

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Speaker 1: to in my career as a political scientist. Justin Penden,

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Speaker 1: an open source intelligence researcher, wrote, for many reasons, this

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Speaker 1: is the hardest time I've ever had covering a crisis

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Speaker 1: on here. Credible links are now photos on the ground.

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Speaker 1: News outlets struggle to reach audiences without an expensive blue

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Speaker 1: check mark. Xenophobic goons are boosted by the platform. CEO

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Speaker 1: end times, folks, And that's really what I've been seeing

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Speaker 1: while trying to cover this on Twitter. You know, trying

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Speaker 1: to make heads or tails of what's going on via

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Speaker 1: Twitter necessitates so far beyond what you would think of

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Speaker 1: as the normal critical thinking that we should all be

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Speaker 1: expected to have when we're engaging with content online. It

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Speaker 1: is basically impossible to find out what's going on, make

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Speaker 1: sense of it, and find out what's true and what's not.

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Speaker 1: It's like Elon Musk's Twitter policies have turned Twitter into

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Speaker 1: a place where nobody can tell what is going on

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Speaker 1: and what the truth is, and honestly, it seems like

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Speaker 1: that is by design. I know that we joke about

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Speaker 1: this a lot on the podcast, and I think it

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Speaker 1: really comes from a place of like laugh to keep

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Speaker 1: from crying, But this week was a really sobering reminder,

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Speaker 1: at least for me, that this is real. The stakes

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Speaker 1: are real, the stakes are very high, and I really

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Speaker 1: have to say something that might not sound like me

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Speaker 1: or like I usually sound on the podcast, which is

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Speaker 1: that we are simply not prepared for how bad this is.

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Speaker 1: We are simply not prepared for how much worse this

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Speaker 1: could get. So there are a few specific new Twitter

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Speaker 1: policies under Elon Musk that I think are responsible for

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Speaker 1: where we are today. The first is Elon's pay for

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Speaker 1: a Verification scheme, where folks pay eight dollars to get

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Speaker 1: blue check marks, it obscures who is a credible person,

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Speaker 1: and people who pay for verification get their content algorithmically

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Speaker 1: amplified on the platform. Next is the new monetization scheme,

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Speaker 1: where people can get paid for how much engagement their

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Speaker 1: tweets get, And then last is that legit news articles

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Speaker 1: now just show up as pictures with no text, thus

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Speaker 1: making them hard to get any context at all when

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Speaker 1: scrolling by them. All of this has led to Twitter

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Speaker 1: feeling like a place where you really cannot make heads

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Speaker 1: or tails of anything, which is especially troubling when it

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Speaker 1: comes to an emotionally charged, highly polarized, ongoing conflict like

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Speaker 1: the one that we're seeing now. So one of the

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Speaker 1: biggest issues is that it's just very difficult to verify

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Speaker 1: what is being said on Twitter right now in a

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Speaker 1: crisis or a breaking new situation. The most important bit

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Speaker 1: of digital hygiene that one can practice is not amplifying

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Speaker 1: or spreading claims that are unverified, especially big claims that

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Speaker 1: are sure to trigger an emotional response. It is a

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Speaker 1: personal standard that I try to live by when I'm online,

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Speaker 1: though it's often difficult just due to the nature of

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Speaker 1: how social media platforms work. You know. I think Twitter

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Speaker 1: is especially prone to making us want to move very

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Speaker 1: quickly because the platform has historically moved very quickly. So

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Speaker 1: it takes a little bit of like mindfulness and I

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Speaker 1: guess deprogramming to make yourself move a little bit slower

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Speaker 1: and actually take a few steps to verify whatever you're

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Speaker 1: seeing before just quickly smashing that retweet button. But on

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Speaker 1: Twitter right now, verifying claims before spreading them is near impossible.

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Speaker 1: It used to be much easier, and that was one

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Speaker 1: of the good things about having a legit verification program

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Speaker 1: pre elon Musk, because if somebody had a blue check mark,

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Speaker 1: you could click on their profile and be reasonably sure

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Speaker 1: they were who they said they were. You know, you

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Speaker 1: click on a journalist account with a blue check mark,

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Speaker 1: at least you know, hey, the person making this claim

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Speaker 1: has been verified to work at XYZ news, organization that

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Speaker 1: probably has some kind of journalistic standards. If they tweet

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Speaker 1: something that is wrong, they will probably correct it or

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Speaker 1: have some kind of accountability around it. But now anyone

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Speaker 1: can buy a blue check mark, which ensures that more

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Speaker 1: of us will see their tweets because people who buy

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Speaker 1: blue check marks have their content algorithmically prioritized on this

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Speaker 1: new version of Twitter, And even though we all had

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Speaker 1: that campaign of delegitimizing and like making fun of people

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Speaker 1: who bought blue check marks, I do still feel like

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Speaker 1: we might have a holdover feeling of a blue check

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Speaker 1: mark indicating accuracy, especially in times of crisis, because in

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Speaker 1: a crisis, we're all moving quickly, just trying to quickly

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Speaker 1: verify information, so it might take another moment or another

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Speaker 1: additional layer of scrutiny for us to be like, wait,

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Speaker 1: this blue check mark is actually meaningless. I shouldn't distrust

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Speaker 1: what this person is saying at face value just because

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Speaker 1: they have the blue check mark. It's just another way

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Speaker 1: that one of the very few guardrails that we had

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Speaker 1: to depend on has now been removed, and how risky

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Speaker 1: that is during times of crisis or confusion. So there

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Speaker 1: are a few big claims that I saw about the

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Speaker 1: attack on Israel that I was working to verify before amplifying.

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Speaker 1: But one that I want to focus on is one

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Speaker 1: that you might have heard, which is that hamas quote

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Speaker 1: beheaded forty infants. Cat ten Barge and Melissa chan Over

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Speaker 1: at NBC had a really good breakdown of trying to

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Speaker 1: verify this claim. Their piece was published on Thursday. We're

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Speaker 1: recording this on Friday morning. This is a developing situation,

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Speaker 1: so whatever I'm about to say, things might change after

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Speaker 1: we actually publish this episode, so keep that in mind.

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Speaker 1: NBC dug into where these viral claims about beheading babies

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Speaker 1: came from and what we know about them now they right.

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Speaker 1: An IDEA of spokesperson told Business Insider on Tuesday that

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Speaker 1: soldiers had found decapitated babies, but said Wednesday that it

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Speaker 1: would not investigate or pervide further evidence regarding the claim.

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Speaker 1: Late Wednesday, an IDF spokesperson sat on a video on

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Speaker 1: Twitter that the IDF had relative confidence of the claims.

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Speaker 1: But on Wednesday, a spokesperson for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin

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Speaker 1: net Yahoo told CNN that babies and toddlers were found

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Speaker 1: with their heads decapitated in southern Israel after Hamas's attack,

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Speaker 1: But Thursday morning, an Israeli official told CNN the government

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Speaker 1: had not confirmed claims of the beheadings. A senior State

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Speaker 1: Department official said Thursday morning the agency was not in

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Speaker 1: a position to confirm the beheading claims now. The nbcpiece

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Speaker 1: suggests that the claim about the forty babies being beheaded

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Speaker 1: came from one news report kind of being telephoned into

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Speaker 1: something else after it blew up on Twitter. Mark Owens Jones,

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Speaker 1: an associate professor of Middle East Studies at Hamad bin

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Speaker 1: Khalifa University and cutter who studies misinformation, told NBC News

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Speaker 1: that he found the source of the forty beheaded babies

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Speaker 1: allegations largely stemmed from one viral Israeli news broadcast clip

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Speaker 1: from I twenty four News that did not specifically refer

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Speaker 1: to that allegation. Nicole Zadek, a correspondent for the privately

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Speaker 1: owned Israeli news outlet I twenty four News, said in

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Speaker 1: the video that Israeli soldiers told her that they'd found

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Speaker 1: quote babies their heads cut off. The video has been

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Speaker 1: viewed more than eleven million times on Twitter, according to

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Speaker 1: its viewcounter, which might be inaccurate because Twitter might be

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Speaker 1: inflating their reviewcounts. That's a conversation to a different day.

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Speaker 1: In another tweet, Zendeck wrote that the soldiers told her

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Speaker 1: that they believe quote forty babies slash children were killed,

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Speaker 1: not beheaded specifically. Mark Owen Jones said that somehow those

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Speaker 1: two bits of information about a baby being found beheaded

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Speaker 1: and forty babies or children being killed were connected, so

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Speaker 1: the story became forty babies were beheaded and in the

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Speaker 1: British press today about six or seven newspapers had it

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Speaker 1: on their front pages. An Idea of spokesperson Dorian Spielman

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Speaker 1: told NBC News on Tuesday that he could not confirm

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Speaker 1: I twenty four news's report, but this did not keep

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Speaker 1: that claim from being repeated by President Biden, who said quote,

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Speaker 1: I never really thought I would see and have confirmed

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Speaker 1: pictures of terrorists beheading children. But soon after the White

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Speaker 1: House clarified that Biden was referring to reports from Israel

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Speaker 1: about beheaded children and cited several media reports of beheadings.

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Speaker 1: So why are these claims such a big deal? Because

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Speaker 1: now they've kind of become part of how we understand

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Speaker 1: what's happening, whether it's accurate or not, and they become

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Speaker 1: part of the justification for escalation and sort of just

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Speaker 1: become the truth of the situation, whether or not it

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Speaker 1: is grounded in fact. And BC reported that on Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: the phrase did Hamas kill babies saw the biggest increase

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Speaker 1: in search interest on Google of anything related to the

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Speaker 1: war and that forty babies beheaded claim had over forty

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Speaker 1: four million impressions on Twitter. Now, these claims are obviously

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Speaker 1: highly emotionally resonant and disturbing. It's the kind of specific

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Speaker 1: details that would get an emotional rise out of anyone.

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Speaker 1: But right now, as of Friday morning, I cannot tell

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Speaker 1: you whether this incredibly viral claim that it's dominated the

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Speaker 1: conversation is actually true or not. It might be true,

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Speaker 1: it might be false, it might be somewhere in the middle.

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Speaker 1: And it strikes me that we ought to be able

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Speaker 1: to verify a claim that forty four million different people

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Speaker 1: to describe this, but I have seen this vibe on

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Speaker 1: idea that journalists would even need to or want to

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Speaker 1: verify this claim before amplifying it, kind of making it

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Speaker 1: seem like verifying it is a way to minimize the

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Speaker 1: horror of the situation. And I think that really shows

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Speaker 1: the danger of making these kind of specific claims if

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Speaker 1: they are not verified, because ultimately it makes the conversation

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Speaker 1: about that specific claim. You know that x amount of

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Speaker 1: babies were killed in ex specific horrific way, and it

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Speaker 1: becomes about trying to find out if that specific claim

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Speaker 1: is true or not, you know, tracing the origins, researching it,

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Speaker 1: all of that so that one specific, big claim becomes

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Speaker 1: a sticking point that kind of takes us away from

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Speaker 1: the larger conversation because here's the thing, that situation is

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Speaker 1: truly awful. We don't need to add highly emotionally charged,

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Speaker 1: specific unsubstantiated claims to the conversation to understand that. And ultimately,

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Speaker 1: I think that is the kind of climate that bad

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Speaker 1: actors want, where it doesn't really matter what the truth is.

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Speaker 1: It's how we get to a world where the truth

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Speaker 1: and facts and the reality of what happened kind of

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Speaker 1: don't matter.

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Speaker 2: Let's take a quick break at our back.

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Speaker 1: So another kind of complex claim that I want to

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Speaker 1: dig into that I saw on Twitter is that Black

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Speaker 1: Lives Matter is celebrating the attack on Israel. So Black

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Speaker 1: Lives Matter Chicago published a graphic depicting a Hamas militant

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Speaker 1: in a parachute. The militants used parachutes in the initial

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Speaker 1: attack on October seventh, obviously, the implication being that they

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Speaker 1: were afying the attack. So I saw this tweet with

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Speaker 1: my own eyes. So it is not in dispute that

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Speaker 1: a Twitter account associated with Black Lives Matter Chicago did

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Speaker 1: in fact tweet it out. But something that I know

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Speaker 1: is that when people say Black Lives Matter as an entity,

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Speaker 1: they could be referring to a few different things. You know,

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Speaker 1: there is the Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation, which

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Speaker 1: is a nonprofit organization with all of the nonprofit like

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Speaker 1: paperwork and certifications from the government like nine nineties, that

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Speaker 1: was founded by Patrice Colors, opal Toametti and Alicia Garza.

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Speaker 1: There's Black Lives Matter state affiliates, There's people or groups

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Speaker 1: who are sort of loosely associated with Black Lives Matter,

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Speaker 1: and then there's Black Lives Matter kind of the movement,

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Speaker 1: you know, where you may have somebody who has no

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Speaker 1: official affiliation with any one organized group but is in

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Speaker 1: solidarity with racial justice sort of generally and sort of

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Speaker 1: as a side note. One of the ways that we've

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Speaker 1: who is protesting against racial justice was being called quote,

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Speaker 1: a Black Lives Matter activist, regardless of their affiliation with

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Speaker 1: the actual organization, which just kind of created this nebulous

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Speaker 1: idea that anybody who was black and against racial justice

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Speaker 1: was somehow affiliated with Black Lives Matter, even if they

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Speaker 1: weren't so. A Twitter account called black Lives Matter Chicago did,

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Speaker 1: in fact tweet out this image within picture of a

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Speaker 1: Hamas fighter in a parachute, kind of glorifying the attack,

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Speaker 1: and lots of people, you know, even elected officials, were

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Speaker 1: condemning it, saying, oh, black Lives Matter is despicable for

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Speaker 1: celebrating this attack on Israel and specifically saying things like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: this is why I never supported Black Lives Matter, or

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Speaker 1: you know, black Lives Matter is anti Semitic, all of that.

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Speaker 1: But on October tenth, the Black Lives Matter Global Network,

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Speaker 1: which is the Black Lives Matter nonprofit organization, basically said

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Speaker 1: we have no affiliation with that account. The statement reads,

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Speaker 1: it has come to our attention that a number of

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Speaker 1: right wing media outlets and far right moguls have been

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Speaker 1: falsely claiming that Black Lives Matter organization issued those statements

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Speaker 1: and then falsely claiming that Black Lives Matter showed up

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Speaker 1: for Hermas and yet another effort to spread ANTIBLM propaganda

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Speaker 1: based on screenshots from fake independent Twitter and Instagram, BLM

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Speaker 1: branded accounts on social media please be advised the actual

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Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter organization, black Lives Matter Global Network, LLC,

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Speaker 1: has not issued any statement in regard to the Israel

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Speaker 1: Palestine conflict at all, and there are no plans to.

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Speaker 1: BLM Chicago is an independently run Twitter account that is

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Speaker 1: run by one individual and does not have any association

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Speaker 1: with our company at all, nor is that Twitter account

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Speaker 1: run by our organization, So any statement from any BLM

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Speaker 1: branded account on social media claiming to support Palestine did

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Speaker 1: not come from our organization. Since day one of this war,

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Speaker 1: high profile right wing media moguls on Twitter have been

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Speaker 1: falsely trying to blame link BLM and Black people to

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Speaker 1: this Israel Palestine conflict. There are literally over one hundred

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Speaker 1: different BLM branded Twitter and Instagram accounts. People and independent

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Speaker 1: online city chapters use our logo and brand for clout

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Speaker 1: and to get more attention to their pages. We have

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Speaker 1: no legal ability to stop this. We have previously consulted

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Speaker 1: with lawyers to stop others from using the Black Lives

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Speaker 1: Matter branding and logo so that we cannot be blamed

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Speaker 1: in the event one of these accounts says something controversial,

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Speaker 1: but have not been successful in shutting down these fake

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Speaker 1: BLM accounts. So literally, anyone can create a Black Lives

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Speaker 1: Matter branded account, No social media account from the actual

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Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter organization will be issuing support or any

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Speaker 1: press release regards to the Israel Palestine conflict at all.

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Speaker 1: So basically, Black Lives Matter of the organization is saying

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Speaker 1: this has nothing to do with us, This is just

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Speaker 1: one person acting independently. The Black Lives Matter Chicago accounts

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Speaker 1: spent the last few days after posting the image defending

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Speaker 1: it until eventually they deleted it, saying, yesterday we sent

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Speaker 1: out messages that we aren't proud of. We stand with

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Speaker 1: Palestine and the people who will do what they must

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Speaker 1: to live free. Our hearts are with the grieving mothers,

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Speaker 1: those rescuing babies from rubble who are in danger of

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Speaker 1: being wiped out completely. But the damage is already done.

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Speaker 1: People seized on that one post and used at the

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Speaker 1: paint all of Black Lives Matter or anyone even loosely

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Speaker 1: affiliated with it, or really anybody black as endorsing that post.

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Speaker 1: And of course this was just used to further stoke

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Speaker 1: existing divisions. Lots of people were using that one social

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Speaker 1: media post as a justification for where they don't support

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Speaker 1: racial justice. People tweeted that they were made to feel

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Speaker 1: like they had to support Black Lives Matter back in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty and making it seem like now Black Lives Matter,

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Speaker 1: and really black people in general were endorsing what happened

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Speaker 1: in Israel. Bad actors like the mostly Peaceful Meme account

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Speaker 1: on Twitter, which is verified and has almost half a

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Speaker 1: million followers, replied to Black Lives Matter Chicago's posts saying

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Speaker 1: at mentioning Chick fil A, asking do you approve this

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Speaker 1: message with a link showing that Chick fil a donated

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Speaker 1: money to black nonprofits? Did Chick fil A donate money

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Speaker 1: to Black Lives Matter or any Black Lives Matter affiliated organization? No,

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Speaker 1: they didn't. If you go to Chick fil A's website

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Speaker 1: about the donations, the recipients are organizations like the Precious

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Speaker 1: Lamb School, which supports babies who are experiencing homelessness. But

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Speaker 1: the implication is that they are somehow associated with Black

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Speaker 1: Lives Matter just because they are a black nonprofit, and

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Speaker 1: thus they are responsible or need to answer for this

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Speaker 1: one person's tweet and that Chick fil A also needs

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Speaker 1: to answer for it too, because of their quote association

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Speaker 1: with them. Now, this is something that we need to

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Speaker 1: be very very aware of. Bad actors will always use

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Speaker 1: moments like these to try to exploit and inflame our

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Speaker 1: very real existing tensions. Bad actors do not want us

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Speaker 1: to be in solidarity with each other. They want us

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Speaker 1: to be divided. They will exploit and inflame those divisions.

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Speaker 1: Because when we're operating from a place of solidarity with

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Speaker 1: each other, we are much less likely to fall for

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Speaker 1: their lives. So now more than ever, we all need

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Speaker 1: to be operating from a place of empathy and genuine

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Speaker 1: solidarity with each other. That is the only way to

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Speaker 1: confront this. So there's unverified or difficult to verify claims,

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Speaker 1: But we also have the issue of just fake or

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Speaker 1: intentionally misrepresented claims flooding Twitter right now. On Saturday, a

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Speaker 1: doctored White House news release posted online falsely claimed that

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Speaker 1: Biden had authorized eight billion dollars in emergency a to Israel.

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Speaker 1: The fact that it was fake did not stop it

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Speaker 1: from being posted across the Internet and rising to the

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Speaker 1: top of Google search results. NBC reported that one of

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Speaker 1: the first results on Google is a false article from

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Speaker 1: the Mumbai based publication first post. The article appeared on

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Speaker 1: the top stories module on Google, alongside articles by Axios

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Speaker 1: and The Wall Street Journal. Even though it's fake, it

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Speaker 1: did not stop several news outlets from writing it up

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Speaker 1: as if it were a real story, and then those

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Speaker 1: news reports showing up with high prominence on Google Search.

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Speaker 1: Verified accounts on Twitter were then sharing this fake White

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Speaker 1: House report. And keep in mind, verified accounts are eligible

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Speaker 1: for Twitter's revenue sharing scheme if elon pays up, that is,

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Speaker 1: and that means they can make money off of spreading

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Speaker 1: lies and are incentivized to post things that get lots

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Speaker 1: of eyeballs. Post sharing the fake document and its claims,

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Speaker 1: many of which are still up, have accrued hundreds of

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Speaker 1: thousands of views on the platform. We've also seen several

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Speaker 1: instances of old videos from older conflicts, or videos that

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Speaker 1: are not even related to the conflict at all, being

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Speaker 1: repurposed on Twitter with claims that they are from the

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Speaker 1: current conflict. Shahan sar Darazade, journalists for BBC Verify, has

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Speaker 1: even found video game footage being posted on Twitter purporting

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Speaker 1: to show the conflict. Think about that. You know, video

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Speaker 1: games are designed specifically to look engaging in cinematic so

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Speaker 1: of course when those videos are put on Twitter, they're

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Speaker 1: going to rack up engagement and spread far and wide.

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Speaker 1: It's basically an engagement farm. These accounts are incentivized by

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Speaker 1: Twitter's current monetization program to tell these outlandish lies because

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Speaker 1: they know they can make money from it.

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Speaker 2: More. After a quick.

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Speaker 1: Break, let's get right back into it. So, as we've

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Speaker 1: talked about a lot of the futures that would help

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Speaker 1: curb the spread of an accurate information on Twitter, Elon

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Speaker 1: has either gotten rid of or really scaled back. Instead,

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Speaker 1: he has promoted the Community Notes program, where people can

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Speaker 1: add notes to posts to give more context. So how's

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Speaker 1: that going well? As NBC's Bengogon reports, not well. The

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Speaker 1: systems community Notes relies on improved volunteers to suggest notes

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Speaker 1: to be appended to posts. Those posts are then voted

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Speaker 1: on by other volunteers and eventually published after they reach

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Speaker 1: a certain threshold of helpful votes from people with different

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Speaker 1: points of view. According to Twitter, this is just a

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Speaker 1: really ineffective way to fact check things, and basically it

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Speaker 1: sounds like there is just too much inaccurate information on

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Speaker 1: Twitter right now. That the Community Notes program just cannot

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Speaker 1: keep up. NBC looked at two viral claims related to

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Speaker 1: the conflict, the Doctorated Press released saying that Biden had

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Speaker 1: approved billions in aid and a debunked claim that an

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Speaker 1: Orthodox church in Gaza was destroyed. Only eight percent of

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Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty posts related to those stories had

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Speaker 1: published community notes, while twenty six percent had unpublished notes

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Speaker 1: from volunteers that had yet to be approved. About two

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Speaker 1: thirds of the top post NBC News reviewed had no

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Speaker 1: proposed or published community notes on them. So just debunked

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Speaker 1: false information with no fact check or note whatsoever on

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Speaker 1: Twitter to be viewed, amplified, spread, and monetized. Kim Picazio,

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Speaker 1: a community notes volunteer, wrote on Instagram threads all weekend

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Speaker 1: we were furiously vetting, writing and approving community notes on

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Speaker 1: hundreds of posts which were demonstrably fake news. It took

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Speaker 1: two plus days for the back room to press whatever

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Speaker 1: button to find only make all of our warnings publicly

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Speaker 1: viewable by that time, you know the rest of that sentence.

436
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 1: Pacazio told NBC News that she ended up just tweeting

437
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 1: out proposed community notes herself in response to misinformation out

438
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 1: of total frustration. Which I completely understand that frustration, because

439
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,199
Speaker 1: this system does not work, and it seems like Twitter

440
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 1: has kind of realized that it's not working. According to

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00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: a post from at community Notes on October third, Twitter wrote,

442
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 1: starting today, notes will appear on average of one point

443
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 1: five hours faster, and as much as three point five

444
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 1: hours faster in some cases. Twitter's new maybe CEO, Linda

445
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:39,439
Speaker 1: Yakarino added, community notes now appear more quickly on x

446
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,160
Speaker 1: They're a vital tool for adding context, of combating potential misinformation.

447
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: Become part of this important community. And I just find

448
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 1: it gross that she is talking about this like it's

449
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 1: some cool new bell or whistle that people should be

450
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,919
Speaker 1: excited about, as opposed to an obviously ineffective way to

451
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 1: approach what should be a standard infrastructure of how platform

452
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 1: as important as Twitter should be responsibly run. Because here's

453
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: the thing. Twitter should not be depending on a crew

454
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 1: of frustrated volunteers to ensure that false information that could

455
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 1: actually put people's lives in danger is not being amplified

456
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,400
Speaker 1: and monetized on the platform they run. You know, these

457
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 1: people are volunteers, are not even being paid, And even

458
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: Elon Musk seemed to see this as an issue, he tweeted,

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00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: as always, please try to stay as close to the

460
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 1: truth as possible, even for stuff you don't like. But

461
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 1: that was after he himself was telling his forty four

462
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: million followers to follow accounts known for amplifying lies in

463
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 1: anti semitism. Must suggested that folks follow War Monitors and

464
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 1: scent Defender quote for following the war in real time,

465
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 1: but both of these accounts spread a false claim that

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00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 1: there had been an explosion near the White House back

467
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,640
Speaker 1: in May, and the War Monitors account that Elon suggested

468
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: folks follow has a history of posting anti Semitic comments

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00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,919
Speaker 1: on Twitter. The account replied to a post from Kanye

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00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:02,160
Speaker 1: Wes during his anti Semitic meltdown, adding quote the overwhelming

471
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: majority of people in the media and banks are Zionists,

472
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 1: while telling another Twitter user in June to go worship

473
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: a jew little bro Now. Musk did eventually delete that

474
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: post suggesting that people follow those two accounts for news

475
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: about the conflict, but he did so after it was

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00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,119
Speaker 1: up for three hours and viewed by eleven million people.

477
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: So to be clear, I think this is particularly bad

478
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 1: on Twitter right now, and I'm not alone. Business insiders

479
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 1: spoke to Sandra vander Linden, a professor at the University

480
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:35,120
Speaker 1: of Cambridge and author A fool Proof Why Misinformation Infects

481
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 1: Our Minds and How to Build Immunity, who said I

482
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 1: would be fairly confident to say that a lot of

483
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: what we're seeing right now is a direct result of

484
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: the policy changes that were implemented by Musk. Vander Linden

485
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 1: said that Musk's early changes to the platform, including gutting

486
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 1: the trust and Safety team, changing the verification process, and

487
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:56,120
Speaker 1: introducing monetized content, are not only allowing but also motivating

488
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: the supread of misinformation on the platform. The fact that

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00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: people with verified a cat can monetize their content means

490
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: they have the wrong incentive, he said. They're incentivized to

491
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: spread content that's going to get engagement, clicks and ultimately

492
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: make them money. Whatever polarizing images they can find, whether

493
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: it's real or fake, is going to elicit clicks, which

494
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 1: I think is part of how we got to where

495
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 1: we are today. Now, there might be a silver lining

496
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 1: because a change might be coming. EU Commissioner Theory Breton

497
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: served Musk and other social media platforms with a letter

498
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,439
Speaker 1: giving them twenty four hours to comply with our request

499
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: for information about how Twitter is following EU's Digital Services Act,

500
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: which has very strict rules about how platform handle inaccurate

501
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,959
Speaker 1: information and material from extremist groups. And of course, because

502
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: it's Elon Musk we're talking about, Musk basically tried to

503
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 1: bait Theory Brenton into a public fight, demanding that the

504
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: EU publicly posts the violations that Twitter is responsible for,

505
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: which like, give me a break, Like you can just

506
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: look with your eyes and see the violations that Twitter

507
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,919
Speaker 1: res responsible for. Like anybody who was been on Twitter

508
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: at all the last week could probably tell you, or

509
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,880
Speaker 1: you could just listen to this podcast. So why does

510
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: any of this matter? Well, Twitter has historically been a

511
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 1: platform where elected officials and policy and newsmakers spend a

512
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 1: lot of time. These are the folks who are getting

513
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: a lot of their information from Twitter. So if it's

514
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: full of emotionally charged, inaccurate information that is impossible to verify,

515
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: that's really not good. And when you add in things

516
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: like AI generated deep fake images, I think it's only

517
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: going to get worse. And this is one of the

518
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:36,360
Speaker 1: reasons why our digital ecosystem just feels so irreparably broken.

519
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 1: We have a real problem if one billionaire can single

520
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 1: handedly buy one of our most important platforms for information

521
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: and not just make it useless but dangerous. So what

522
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: can we do in the meantime? Well, I will repeat

523
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 1: this until the cows come home. Twitter is not your

524
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: friend right now. Do not take anything that you see

525
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: on Twitter right now at face value. You, especially if

526
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: you do not have an hour to spend doing background

527
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 1: research into whatever claim you're seeing there now, to be clear,

528
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: that is not right. That should not be the standard.

529
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 1: Everyday people should not have to do that level of research,

530
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 1: you know, while they're scrolling their morning coffee, just to

531
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: verify what they're seeing. We deserve a digital media landscape

532
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: that you can trust within reason. We shouldn't have to

533
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: do any of this. We deserve a better platform. But

534
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: until then, it is so important that all of us

535
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,719
Speaker 1: really understand how bad Twitter has gotten and act accordingly.

536
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: Look to trusted news sources for information about the conflict

537
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: Beyond Twitter, professional journalists at established outlets that have standards,

538
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: And while you should always be thinking critically about everything

539
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 1: that you read in general, you can usually have confidence

540
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: that a big, established media outlet or newspaper is going

541
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: to verify facts before printing them. And the last thing

542
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: I'll leave you with is just the importance of all

543
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: of us leading with empathy right now. You know, people

544
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: are suffering, people are scared, people are mourning, and things

545
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: are likely about to get worse. Bad actors they are

546
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: counting on us giving into that fear, that anxiety, that

547
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: distrust and that chaos and really being reactionary. Those are

548
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: perfect conditions for people who are interested in spreading lies

549
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 1: and chaos. And the best thing we can do in

550
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: this climate is have empathy for each other and move

551
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: in genuine solidarity with one another, because we really are

552
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: stronger together and that's the only way that we're going

553
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: to make it through. Got a story about an interesting

554
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 1: thing in tech, or just want to say hi? You

555
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: can reach us at Hello at tegody dot com. You

556
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: can also find transcripts for today's episode at tengoity dot com.

557
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by

558
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 1: me Bridgitad. It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed creative

559
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,719
Speaker 1: Jonathan Stricklet as our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our

560
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 1: producer and sound engineer. Michael Almato is our contributing producer,

561
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help

562
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: us grow, rate and review.

563
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 2: Us on Apple Podcasts.

564
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app,

565
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts