1
00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:05,000
Speaker 1: One of the most admired people in the world is

2
00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:08,680
Speaker 1: doctor Jane Goodall. About sixty years ago, she moved to

3
00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:12,760
Speaker 1: Africa to study chimpanzees and what she learned revolutionize our

4
00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:16,560
Speaker 1: understanding of what non humans can do. Today, she's devoting

5
00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:20,120
Speaker 1: herself to inspiring young people around the world to do

6
00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:22,840
Speaker 1: much more to protect the climate and the environment for

7
00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:25,720
Speaker 1: animals in Africa and all over the world. I had

8
00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,360
Speaker 1: a chance to sit down with doctor Jane Goodall recently

9
00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:32,160
Speaker 1: and learned firsthand why this woman eighty nine years old

10
00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:36,120
Speaker 1: is still so admired and dedicated to helping make the

11
00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,239
Speaker 1: planet a better place. So thank you very much for

12
00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:41,760
Speaker 1: coming here, and we're going to go through a lot

13
00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,080
Speaker 1: of what you've done and the things that made you

14
00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:48,760
Speaker 1: make you so popular. On your last name that kind

15
00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:53,159
Speaker 1: of describes everything good All. So you ever thought of

16
00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:55,560
Speaker 1: changing the good for All because you're doing so many

17
00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:56,960
Speaker 1: other things or great All?

18
00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:01,640
Speaker 2: Or do we do have on our website Good for

19
00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:06,000
Speaker 2: All News, which is because I truly believe that the

20
00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:08,240
Speaker 2: media we need to know the doom and the gloom.

21
00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,600
Speaker 2: We do, but why don't they give more time to

22
00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,200
Speaker 2: the amazing people, wonderful projects around the world that you

23
00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:19,080
Speaker 2: read and people will say, wow, they did that. Well,

24
00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:20,080
Speaker 2: we could do it too.

25
00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,040
Speaker 1: Okay, well you're inspired a lot of people, no doubt

26
00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,520
Speaker 1: a lot of people here I've read about what you've done.

27
00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,280
Speaker 1: Let's go through how this came about. The outset. So

28
00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:31,840
Speaker 1: you grew up in London or in England, England, England,

29
00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:36,039
Speaker 1: and when you're one year old you read a you

30
00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:38,840
Speaker 1: were given a book or something about chimpanzees. Is that

31
00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:39,360
Speaker 1: true work?

32
00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,440
Speaker 2: It was my father, who I really didn't know because

33
00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,440
Speaker 2: it was just before World War two and he joined

34
00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:49,000
Speaker 2: out as soon as war was declared. But he gave

35
00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:54,040
Speaker 2: me a stuff Chimpanzee Jubilee. He was the name for

36
00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,200
Speaker 2: the first chimpanzee born in the London Zoo and the

37
00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:01,440
Speaker 2: jubilee of Queen George and Mary, I suppose, and I

38
00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:06,000
Speaker 2: took him everywhere with me. But people have the misapprehension

39
00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:10,920
Speaker 2: that because of that I studied chimpanzees. Wasn't true. The

40
00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:14,880
Speaker 2: chimpanzee interests began, you know, I finally saved up money.

41
00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:16,800
Speaker 2: I had to be a waitress. We had no money

42
00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:21,840
Speaker 2: in my family and we couldn't even afford university. So

43
00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:26,000
Speaker 2: I did this boring old secretarial course. Then I got

44
00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,880
Speaker 2: invited to Kenya by a school friend, and so I

45
00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:34,480
Speaker 2: worked as a waitress to save up the fair. And

46
00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:39,639
Speaker 2: so I would have studied any animal. I was ten

47
00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,600
Speaker 2: years old when my dream was I'll go to Africa,

48
00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,600
Speaker 2: live with wild animals and write books about them. Why

49
00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,000
Speaker 2: because I was in love with Tarzan.

50
00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:53,880
Speaker 1: Right, Well, you did that at ten years old. So

51
00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,000
Speaker 1: you told your mother you'd like to go to Africa

52
00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,120
Speaker 1: and see the chimpanzees. And what did she say?

53
00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,040
Speaker 2: Not the and thees. I would have studied anything.

54
00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:05,160
Speaker 1: Well, what did your mother say to anything? Did she did? Think?

55
00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:07,799
Speaker 2: Your mother I to attribute a great deal of who

56
00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,640
Speaker 2: I am and what I've done to the wise way

57
00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,520
Speaker 2: that she brought me up. She was supported. So when

58
00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,440
Speaker 2: I said I wanted to go to Africa, everybody laughed

59
00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,160
Speaker 2: at me. How will you do that? Africa's far away,

60
00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,680
Speaker 2: you don't have money, it's dangerous, and you're just a girl.

61
00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,520
Speaker 2: Remember this is going back seventy years now that my

62
00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,639
Speaker 2: mother said, if you really want to do this, you're

63
00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,480
Speaker 2: going to have to work really hard, take advantage of

64
00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:37,440
Speaker 2: every opportunity, and if you don't give up, hopefully find

65
00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:37,840
Speaker 2: a way.

66
00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,360
Speaker 1: So you save your money and you went and you

67
00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:43,720
Speaker 1: told your parents you're really going to Africa. They didn't say, well,

68
00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:45,480
Speaker 1: that was nice to talk about it, but you really

69
00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:47,200
Speaker 1: can't do it. They really didn't care if you went.

70
00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:47,680
Speaker 1: Is that right?

71
00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:49,960
Speaker 2: Well my father was out of it. He was still

72
00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,320
Speaker 2: you know a way they divorced and that was my

73
00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,840
Speaker 2: mother and you know, she just said, well, stick with

74
00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,000
Speaker 2: it if you want to do it. And do you

75
00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:03,200
Speaker 2: know how many people have written to me and said, Jane,

76
00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:06,440
Speaker 2: I want to thank you because you did it, I

77
00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:07,360
Speaker 2: can do it too.

78
00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:10,360
Speaker 1: Okay, So you did this at the age of twenty three,

79
00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,400
Speaker 1: you go to How did you pick which part of Africa?

80
00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,000
Speaker 1: How did you get to Tanzania for example?

81
00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,919
Speaker 2: Well, because my friend's parents had bought a farm in Kenya,

82
00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,360
Speaker 2: and while I was there, I met the famous paleontologist

83
00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:28,360
Speaker 2: Lewis Leiki and he gave me this opportunity to go

84
00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:31,200
Speaker 2: and study not just any animal, but the one most

85
00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:35,240
Speaker 2: like us, chimpanzee. I would have studied a mouse if

86
00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:36,679
Speaker 2: I could be out in the Africa.

87
00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,640
Speaker 1: So Lewis Leaky was the famous paleontologist who more or

88
00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,280
Speaker 1: less came up with the theory that humans pretty much

89
00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,880
Speaker 1: evolved out of southern Africa. Yeah, and he was famous

90
00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:48,760
Speaker 1: for that. And did you get to know him or.

91
00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,159
Speaker 2: A very well? Because you know, I told you I

92
00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,520
Speaker 2: had to do that boring secretarial cause when I heard

93
00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:58,840
Speaker 2: about Louis LeKi and went to see him, his secretary

94
00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,080
Speaker 2: had just left. He needed a secretary there, I was.

95
00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,799
Speaker 2: So I'm right now surrounded by people who can answer

96
00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:09,480
Speaker 2: all my questions about the animals and the birds and everything.

97
00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,680
Speaker 1: And so at one point, you said I really want

98
00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:14,279
Speaker 1: to go live with the chimpanzees.

99
00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:15,400
Speaker 2: No I didn't.

100
00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,000
Speaker 1: Okay, as I said, you didn't say that, right, What

101
00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:20,039
Speaker 1: did you say?

102
00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,559
Speaker 2: I told him I really wanted to study animals, okay,

103
00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,400
Speaker 2: And for some reason, although I hadn't been to college,

104
00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,880
Speaker 2: he believed that I could do what he'd been looking

105
00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:33,720
Speaker 2: for someone for ten years. He told me to go

106
00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:38,600
Speaker 2: and study not just any animal, but our closest living relatives,

107
00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:39,800
Speaker 2: the chimpanzees.

108
00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,000
Speaker 1: Okay, so he said, okay. Eventually, how long had you

109
00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:44,560
Speaker 1: worked for him before he said you could do this?

110
00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,800
Speaker 1: A year? A year? So he said, okay, you're going

111
00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,320
Speaker 1: to do this. But did he just give you a

112
00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:51,760
Speaker 1: guidance or to tell you where to go?

113
00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,800
Speaker 2: Or no, he didn't have money, so it took him

114
00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:59,560
Speaker 2: a year to get the money. Tanzania with the chimps

115
00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:03,480
Speaker 2: were and are was still part of the British Protectorate

116
00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,880
Speaker 2: and the authorities. The British authorities said, we won't take

117
00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:12,360
Speaker 2: responsibility for this young girl. But Leaky never gave up

118
00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,159
Speaker 2: sewing me and they said, yes, but she can't come alone.

119
00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:20,119
Speaker 2: So who volunteered that same amazing supportive mother.

120
00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:24,520
Speaker 1: Your mother came with you to Africa to study the chimpanzees.

121
00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:26,960
Speaker 2: Well, she didn't do the study. She looked off to

122
00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:27,400
Speaker 2: the camp.

123
00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:31,039
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, So when eventually you do get there,

124
00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:33,599
Speaker 1: just to live with the chimpanzees, you're supposed to live

125
00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:34,440
Speaker 1: with them, is that right?

126
00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:36,480
Speaker 2: Live with them and learn from them.

127
00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:38,120
Speaker 1: But do you get a tent or something?

128
00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:38,760
Speaker 2: Or a tent?

129
00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,600
Speaker 1: You had a tent? So was it? Were they dangerous?

130
00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:43,320
Speaker 1: I mean, weren't you worried they might attack you?

131
00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:48,200
Speaker 2: Well, you know, for me, we had an old ex

132
00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,440
Speaker 2: army tent, Mam and I between us, no nice sown

133
00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,920
Speaker 2: in ground sheet and mosquito windows, nothing like that. And

134
00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,440
Speaker 2: I would go happily up into the mountains every morning

135
00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:03,000
Speaker 2: for doing my dream. Mom would be left in the camp,

136
00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,400
Speaker 2: and if you wanted air in that tent, you rolled

137
00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,240
Speaker 2: up the side flaps and tied them with tape and

138
00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:16,360
Speaker 2: in came air, but also scorpions, spiders, snakes, which I

139
00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:18,200
Speaker 2: didn't mind about. But poor Mom.

140
00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,840
Speaker 1: I mean, so you set up, you set up a tent,

141
00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:26,240
Speaker 1: and how did you engage the chimpanzees? How did you

142
00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:28,320
Speaker 1: kind of get close to them? How did you not

143
00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,240
Speaker 1: worry about their attacking you? How did you befriend them.

144
00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:36,400
Speaker 2: With great difficulty? For four months? I remember I had

145
00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,880
Speaker 2: sick money for six months. For four of those months,

146
00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,720
Speaker 2: they ran away as soon as they saw me. And

147
00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:46,360
Speaker 2: you know, I knew, given time that I could win

148
00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:49,560
Speaker 2: that trust. But did I have the time? The days

149
00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,400
Speaker 2: turned to weeks, ton to months, and it was wonderful

150
00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:56,560
Speaker 2: because what Mom did. She boosted my morality, said, Jane,

151
00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,800
Speaker 2: you found that peak, and with your binoculars you seeing

152
00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:05,280
Speaker 2: how chimps wander around by themselves in small groups, big

153
00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,200
Speaker 2: groups when there's a new food available. You're learning about

154
00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:10,880
Speaker 2: the calls they make, the foods they eat, how they

155
00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:15,280
Speaker 2: make nests at night, and so she really helped to

156
00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:16,640
Speaker 2: boost When we're all all.

157
00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,200
Speaker 1: Right, so you weren't trained as a scientist, so you

158
00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,239
Speaker 1: used your powers of observation to see what they were doing.

159
00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:27,320
Speaker 2: Yes, and my in bore love of animals, my curiosity,

160
00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:32,720
Speaker 2: my fascination. Leaky told me nothing. He never even visited Gombe.

161
00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:35,600
Speaker 1: So when you go to see the chimpanzees, you first

162
00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,800
Speaker 1: engage them. Do you give him some food or something

163
00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:40,000
Speaker 1: to kind of narrow them? No?

164
00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,760
Speaker 2: I just tried to get them used to me, and eventually,

165
00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,160
Speaker 2: and it was very sad. It was just two weeks

166
00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:50,760
Speaker 2: after Mum left that I saw this one famous chimpanzee,

167
00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,360
Speaker 2: very handsome. I called him David Grabiad. It was the

168
00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,720
Speaker 2: first one to lose his fear. And on this special

169
00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:03,640
Speaker 2: day I saw him using grass stems to fish termis

170
00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:04,960
Speaker 2: from their nest.

171
00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,520
Speaker 1: Okay, does it get lonely out there? Just you and

172
00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:11,120
Speaker 1: the champanzees. There's no cell phones, there's no anything. You you

173
00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:11,800
Speaker 1: get lonely.

174
00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:18,360
Speaker 2: We have lap computers at that time, So lonely all day?

175
00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:20,920
Speaker 1: What did you do all they just look at the champanzees,

176
00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:21,959
Speaker 1: try to get close to them.

177
00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,440
Speaker 2: Tried to get close when possible. I watched some of

178
00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:29,760
Speaker 2: my binoculars. Sometimes I stayed out if they nested, I

179
00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:33,040
Speaker 2: would go back to have supper with Mum. Then I

180
00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,160
Speaker 2: would go back up so that I could be near

181
00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,239
Speaker 2: them in the morning. And I was scared of leopards.

182
00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,880
Speaker 2: Back then, we had leopards at Gombi, and I would

183
00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,600
Speaker 2: hear them at night when I was up there alone

184
00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:48,920
Speaker 2: with my little blanket, and I would hear the leopards

185
00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:53,839
Speaker 2: hunting sound, and I think, pull the blanket over my head. O.

186
00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:56,679
Speaker 1: Did you ever say to yourself, how did I get

187
00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:58,600
Speaker 1: myself into this? Or do you always say I'm glad

188
00:09:58,600 --> 00:09:59,120
Speaker 1: I'm doing this.

189
00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,120
Speaker 2: No, I was following my dream. I was They were

190
00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:03,720
Speaker 2: the best days of my life.

191
00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,959
Speaker 1: So eventually you go back to doctor Leaky and you

192
00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,120
Speaker 1: give them a report on what you've learned. And in

193
00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:12,360
Speaker 1: that report you kind of changed the perception around the

194
00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:16,280
Speaker 1: world of chimpanzees because people thought at that time, as

195
00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:20,400
Speaker 1: I understand it, that chimpanzees are not capable of making tools.

196
00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:24,120
Speaker 1: Only humans could do that, right, And you discovered they

197
00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:25,560
Speaker 1: make tools for what purpose?

198
00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:30,720
Speaker 2: Fishing for termites, crumpling leaves to get water from a

199
00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,800
Speaker 2: hollow in a tree that they can't reach with their lips.

200
00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,679
Speaker 1: Did you ever eat the termites yourself. Are they tasty

201
00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:37,720
Speaker 1: or well I had.

202
00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:41,080
Speaker 2: To eat one just to say I'd done so.

203
00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:43,720
Speaker 1: So after you gave your report to doctor Leaky, he

204
00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,439
Speaker 1: I guess sent it to somebody and people said, how

205
00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:50,400
Speaker 1: can this woman not trained as a scientist come up

206
00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,280
Speaker 1: with a discovery that we famous scientists didn't know about?

207
00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:54,959
Speaker 1: Is that the essence of the problem.

208
00:10:55,240 --> 00:11:00,240
Speaker 2: They were keep the hurrogans, most of them, and you know,

209
00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:04,760
Speaker 2: they were saying things like, well, she's just a girl,

210
00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:09,160
Speaker 2: she's straight out from England. Why should we believe her.

211
00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:12,320
Speaker 2: One of them even said maybe she taught the chimps

212
00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,240
Speaker 2: to use tools, which as they were running away at

213
00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:16,080
Speaker 2: the time with them.

214
00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:20,800
Speaker 1: So eventually National Geographic decides to get a photographer to

215
00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:21,160
Speaker 1: come over.

216
00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:25,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, the National Geographic came after a Leaky approached them

217
00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:28,120
Speaker 2: and they said, we will fund James resort after the

218
00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:29,360
Speaker 2: six months money.

219
00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,760
Speaker 1: Now the National Geographic came over and was able to

220
00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,679
Speaker 1: get people to interested in this because of what reason?

221
00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:40,280
Speaker 2: This is what the scientist said. The scientist said, oh, well,

222
00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,600
Speaker 2: you know, the geographics giving her money because they can

223
00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,640
Speaker 2: put her on the cover because she's got nice legs.

224
00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:52,200
Speaker 2: So okay, if that would happen today, there'd be a

225
00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:58,080
Speaker 2: lawsuit back then. I just thought, well, I mean there

226
00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:00,680
Speaker 2: was a different world back then, and I thought, well,

227
00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,400
Speaker 2: if my legs have got me the money to do

228
00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,319
Speaker 2: what I want to do, which is buddy win, thank

229
00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:07,920
Speaker 2: you legs.

230
00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:14,880
Speaker 1: So well. Nasa Jay GRapi sent the photographer over, they

231
00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,520
Speaker 1: took the pictures. It became a famous article and then

232
00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,559
Speaker 1: you became pretty well known. Did you decide to go

233
00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,680
Speaker 1: back to England and do something else then get your PhD?

234
00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:25,360
Speaker 1: Or no?

235
00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:29,679
Speaker 2: Leaky wrote to me and said I picked you because

236
00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:32,760
Speaker 2: you had not been to university and your brain wasn't

237
00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:37,920
Speaker 2: wasn't you know, sutted up with the very arrogant way

238
00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:42,880
Speaker 2: scientists treated animals back then as mere things. But he said,

239
00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:47,600
Speaker 2: now I want you to be to be respected by

240
00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,520
Speaker 2: other scientists, so you must get a degree. But we

241
00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:54,080
Speaker 2: don't have time for an undergraduate degree. I've got you

242
00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,760
Speaker 2: a place in Cambridge University in England to do a

243
00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:03,000
Speaker 2: PhD intology. Well, I didn't know what ethology means, so

244
00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:05,040
Speaker 2: Budy and behavior, so you.

245
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,120
Speaker 1: Skip the undergraduate part and you got a PhD.

246
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:12,120
Speaker 2: And I was very very nervous. You can imagine I'd

247
00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:16,160
Speaker 2: never been to college, and just imagine what I felt

248
00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:21,120
Speaker 2: like when I was told by the scientists. Well, first

249
00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,400
Speaker 2: of all, you shouldn't give them the chimpanzee names. It's

250
00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,559
Speaker 2: if you're a proper silenist, you give them numbers. Then

251
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:31,880
Speaker 2: they said you can't talk about their personalities, their minds,

252
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,880
Speaker 2: or their emotions. Those are unique to us. They also

253
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:41,320
Speaker 2: said you must not have empathy with your subjects, because

254
00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:45,040
Speaker 2: a good scientist is objective and if you have empathy,

255
00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:48,160
Speaker 2: you can't be objective, which is rubbish.

256
00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:51,480
Speaker 1: So you got your PhD. Did you say now I'm

257
00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:53,640
Speaker 1: going to teach at Cambridge or decide to go back

258
00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:54,839
Speaker 1: to Africa? Oh?

259
00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,560
Speaker 2: I was going back in between because I was still learning.

260
00:13:57,640 --> 00:13:59,840
Speaker 2: We're still learning after sixty three years.

261
00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:04,560
Speaker 1: Chimpionzees, you discovered, actually are not quite as nice as

262
00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:06,520
Speaker 1: you wanted them to be. They kill each other from

263
00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:07,440
Speaker 1: time to time. Is that right?

264
00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,520
Speaker 2: They have? The males are territorial, and if they see

265
00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:15,360
Speaker 2: an individual from a neighboring community, communities are gonna be

266
00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:20,440
Speaker 2: about fifty and that that individual will probably die.

267
00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:23,840
Speaker 1: And when you, let's say, go away, go back to England,

268
00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,560
Speaker 1: come back, they recognize you. You Yeah, And how did

269
00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:29,720
Speaker 1: they befriend you when you come back and they like you,

270
00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:32,240
Speaker 1: do they bring you a gift or they bring you something.

271
00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,520
Speaker 2: I never wanted that kind of relationship dieing Fossy with

272
00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:40,360
Speaker 2: the gorillas. She did, but I wanted to, like looking

273
00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,600
Speaker 2: through a window, I wanted to watch the behavior as

274
00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,120
Speaker 2: it is without me being in the picture.

275
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:51,880
Speaker 1: Hey, so for many years you're living in Africa, no electricity,

276
00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:55,760
Speaker 1: no cell phones, no television, none of the important things

277
00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:57,200
Speaker 1: you need in life to get by, right.

278
00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:59,920
Speaker 2: No, No, they're not important at all.

279
00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:06,160
Speaker 1: Okay, So, so like, obviously they can talk to each other,

280
00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:10,040
Speaker 1: but is it possible that that humans can convey some

281
00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:12,720
Speaker 1: type of language to chimpanzees or teach them how to

282
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,600
Speaker 1: add wasn't that whatever you were working on at one point,

283
00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,120
Speaker 1: teaching them how to addition or words? And how did

284
00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:19,040
Speaker 1: that work? Did they go?

285
00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:23,200
Speaker 2: Well? I never have. But chimpanzees have been taught sign language,

286
00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,720
Speaker 2: and they can learn up to about seven hundred words

287
00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:31,160
Speaker 2: that deaf people use, and from that you can learn

288
00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:37,120
Speaker 2: fascinating things like, for example, some chimpanzees love to paint

289
00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,480
Speaker 2: or draw. Not all of them, and these are captive ones,

290
00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:45,360
Speaker 2: of course, but one young chimpanzee she was four years old,

291
00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,400
Speaker 2: and she used to film her page with lovely lines

292
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,760
Speaker 2: of different colors, and on this occasion she made a

293
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:57,280
Speaker 2: drawing like that, and so her teacher handed the paperback

294
00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:01,800
Speaker 2: and signed finish, so that Mpanzee looked at it and

295
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:06,160
Speaker 2: handed it back and said finished. And so this went

296
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:10,040
Speaker 2: on about two times, and then the teacher had the

297
00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:15,120
Speaker 2: brains to say what is it? And the chimpanzee signed

298
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:20,680
Speaker 2: back a bull. Well, a human if doing a bull

299
00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:24,760
Speaker 2: would do a bull, right, what's the chimp done? The bulbs?

300
00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,120
Speaker 2: And that gives you a whole new feeling of looking

301
00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,560
Speaker 2: at the world through the eyes of a chimp. She's

302
00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:33,680
Speaker 2: doing the movement?

303
00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:39,560
Speaker 1: Wow. So why do you think people are so fascinated

304
00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:41,640
Speaker 1: by what you have achieved in your life? I mean,

305
00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:43,440
Speaker 1: when you were doing this, you didn't do this for

306
00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:45,160
Speaker 1: a world to claim you were doing it because you're

307
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,480
Speaker 1: interested in it. But it turns out the world is

308
00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:50,200
Speaker 1: fascinated by what you've done with your life. Why do

309
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,720
Speaker 1: you think that is? Is that people love chimpanzees or

310
00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:56,280
Speaker 1: like the dedication you've shown, or they just admire your

311
00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,000
Speaker 1: courage to do this. Why do you think you're so beloved?

312
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,520
Speaker 2: I think you should ask somebody else. I don't know.

313
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:03,680
Speaker 2: That's okay.

314
00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:04,880
Speaker 1: We're here for.

315
00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,639
Speaker 2: You know, I mean, yeah, yeah, I mean some people

316
00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,760
Speaker 2: are fascinated by the chimp's basically children. Some people love

317
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,640
Speaker 2: it that I was a woman. I think of myself

318
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,160
Speaker 2: as a human. I don't care about the male female bit.

319
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:19,919
Speaker 1: Really Okay, so you think a man could have done

320
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:20,919
Speaker 1: this better than you did this?

321
00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:28,679
Speaker 2: No, well, there are amazing male people study apes. But

322
00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:30,040
Speaker 2: it just happened. It was me.

323
00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,080
Speaker 1: What would you like young girls to learn about what

324
00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:36,919
Speaker 1: they can do? And how would you suggest they follow

325
00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:37,679
Speaker 1: what you've done?

326
00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,600
Speaker 2: Well, I would say that they all should be told

327
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:42,920
Speaker 2: what my mother told me. If there's something you really

328
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,520
Speaker 2: want to do, then you have to work really hard,

329
00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:49,320
Speaker 2: take advantage of every opportunity, and if you don't give up,

330
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,200
Speaker 2: hopefully you find a way. But for all of us,

331
00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:56,199
Speaker 2: it's the main message of roots and shoes, which, by

332
00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,360
Speaker 2: the way, I didn't tell you. It's now in sixty

333
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:07,720
Speaker 2: eight countries around the world we have ambush. We had

334
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:12,440
Speaker 2: members in kindergarten, even a few in preschool, but kindergarten,

335
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,760
Speaker 2: university and more and more adults like the staff of

336
00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:20,960
Speaker 2: a big corporation like senior citizens. And the main message

337
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:25,239
Speaker 2: is every single one of us makes some impact on

338
00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:29,120
Speaker 2: the planet every single day, and we get to choose

339
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:30,960
Speaker 2: what impact do we make.

340
00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:34,719
Speaker 1: So have you ever been to Washington, DC? Much? If

341
00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:35,440
Speaker 1: you go there much?

342
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:40,040
Speaker 2: Oh, I've done so much love being there, a fine

343
00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:42,480
Speaker 2: meeting with right now, I haven't been doing any lo bit.

344
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,080
Speaker 1: So do you find meeting with members of Congress uplifting her?

345
00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,200
Speaker 2: Not so much defense who I meet?

346
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,199
Speaker 1: Most of your life you devoted to the study of

347
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,960
Speaker 1: chimpanzees to make sure that they're better understood and better

348
00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:01,119
Speaker 1: appreciate it. But in recent years at the institute, the

349
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,960
Speaker 1: Jane Goodall Institute, and what is that design.

350
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:10,400
Speaker 2: To do well? That started in nineteen seventy seven, when

351
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,280
Speaker 2: by then I had a little research station and four

352
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:18,640
Speaker 2: of my students were kidnapped and everything shut down, and

353
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,640
Speaker 2: so some friends of mine said, well, let's start an

354
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:27,200
Speaker 2: institute so that this research can carry on. Bless them.

355
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,280
Speaker 2: So that was nineteen seventy seven, and it was set

356
00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:36,120
Speaker 2: up to study, conserve chimpanzees and other animals and educate

357
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:40,359
Speaker 2: and it's developed since then. So it's you know, we've

358
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:45,760
Speaker 2: got twenty seven Jane Goodall institutes around the world. And

359
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:52,720
Speaker 2: then I realized at some point that people living the

360
00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:57,080
Speaker 2: African people living in and around chimpanzee habitats right across

361
00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:02,680
Speaker 2: Africa were struggling to vibe. There was crippling poverty, lack

362
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,800
Speaker 2: of health and education, moving deeper into the forest, being

363
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:11,760
Speaker 2: exposed to diseases like ebola and the HIV from the

364
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:16,320
Speaker 2: chimpanzees and vice versa. And I suddenly it hit me.

365
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,760
Speaker 2: If we don't help these people to find ways of

366
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:24,520
Speaker 2: making a living without destroying their environment, we can't conservation

367
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:25,200
Speaker 2: will work.

368
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,800
Speaker 1: So you've devoted a large part of the Good All

369
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,680
Speaker 1: Institute to climate change and conservation. Is that right?

370
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,439
Speaker 2: Yes? Absolutely? Well right now? I mean, you know we

371
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:42,400
Speaker 2: face these two existential threats, don't we, Climate change, which

372
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:45,240
Speaker 2: has changed where the patterns all around the world. We

373
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:49,000
Speaker 2: had the flooding yesterday, you know, day before years today,

374
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:54,520
Speaker 2: and then loss of biodiversity. And what people don't realize

375
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,760
Speaker 2: we are not the only part of the natural world,

376
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:02,200
Speaker 2: even though with our cell phone and virtual reality we

377
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:07,560
Speaker 2: feel divorced from nature, but we depend on it for food, water, clothing, everything.

378
00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 2: But what we depend on is healthy ecosystems and an

379
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:17,240
Speaker 2: ecosystem is this magical mix of plants and animals, each

380
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,720
Speaker 2: one with a role to play. So if you think

381
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:24,080
Speaker 2: of it as a beautiful tapestry, every time a species

382
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,639
Speaker 2: goes from that tapestry, it's like pulling a thread until

383
00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:33,440
Speaker 2: the tapestry hangs in tatus and then the ecosystem will collapse.

384
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:34,640
Speaker 2: And it's happening.

385
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 1: You have a fairly exhausting schedule. You're going from event

386
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:39,919
Speaker 1: to event, But how frequently do you get back to

387
00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,920
Speaker 1: Africa every couple of weeks. You're back there now twice.

388
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,159
Speaker 2: A year because my family is there, partly because I

389
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,480
Speaker 2: need to go to Goombi, but we also have a

390
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:53,720
Speaker 2: big sanctuary for orphan chims in Congo. We have another

391
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 2: one in South Africa. There's one that we basically are

392
00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 2: in Bolb within Uganda, and I need to go back.

393
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 2: I need to, you know, give support to the stuff

394
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 2: there Gombe. I go back, and luckily my family, my

395
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,320
Speaker 2: grandchildren can come with me, So it's time.

396
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:12,720
Speaker 1: But if you go back to Gombe now and you

397
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 1: want to look for some chimpanzees, would you find some

398
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,119
Speaker 1: that you already knew you and would they recognize you?

399
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,440
Speaker 2: Still there is just one mother and her daughter that

400
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 2: I knew. And you know, since I only go back

401
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 2: like three or four days at gonna be at a time,

402
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 2: I don't know the new ones. I don't know the

403
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:36,679
Speaker 2: children and the young ones, but Gremlin I knew intimately.

404
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 1: You are public information. Eighty nine years old, is that right?

405
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 2: Eighty eight nine?

406
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, eighty nine. Okay. It's a lot of people when

407
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:46,680
Speaker 1: they turn eighty nine, they want to kind of chill

408
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:50,040
Speaker 1: out a little bit and relax, maybe spend time with

409
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 1: the grandkids or something, great grandkids. You're not slowing down

410
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,880
Speaker 1: any at all. You're not. You're sitting on the beach anywhere,

411
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:58,399
Speaker 1: going to Palm Beach or something.

412
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 2: Well, how can I because you know this may sound

413
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,600
Speaker 2: weird to you, but I truly feel that I was

414
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 2: put on this planet with a mission, and right now,

415
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 2: the mission is to give people hope, because if you

416
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 2: don't have hope, you give up, you become up a

417
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 2: petic and do nothing, and then we're doomed, if our

418
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:22,159
Speaker 2: young people, we're doomed. So you know, Okay, So I

419
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 2: don't know how many years I have left, but when

420
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 2: I was young, I had this time, and now I'm

421
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 2: coming up towards whenever the end is. Could be one year,

422
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 2: could be five years, could be ten, could be twenty.

423
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:38,239
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I'm lifting closer, and so I

424
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,199
Speaker 2: have to speed up because there is so much I

425
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:42,400
Speaker 2: still have to do.

426
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to hear more of my interviews. You

427
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: can subscribe and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or

428
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 1: wherever you listen