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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Emily, and you're listening to stuff mom

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Speaker 1: never told you. Today, we are tackling a topic that

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Speaker 1: is pretty hot button. Uh. We are talking about Ivanka

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Speaker 1: Trump's feminism or what some my pupil might call quote

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Speaker 1: unquote feminism. And I think it's gonna be a dicey one.

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Speaker 1: I think so many of us were optimistic and excited

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Speaker 1: about the prospect of someone like Ivanka Trump, who in

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Speaker 1: many ways historically has had all the you know, underpinnings

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Speaker 1: of a Manhattan liberal, being involved in her father's campaign

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Speaker 1: for president. It was like a bright spot amidst many um,

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Speaker 1: not so bright one. But I think there's been an

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Speaker 1: evolution that we've seen so bridge and I we want

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Speaker 1: to talk through that evolution and take us back to

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Speaker 1: the beginning. I mean, in the beginning, I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of smart people, myself included, UM, had a lot

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Speaker 1: of hope her Ivanka. We thought that, you know, I

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Speaker 1: think that there was this early narrative that Jared Kushner

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Speaker 1: and Ivanka Trump are sort of the like smart the

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Speaker 1: smart millennials in the White House that like they were

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Speaker 1: going to be the ones that like you gave us,

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Speaker 1: save us, and like you know, temper their father's administration

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Speaker 1: with a little bit of common sense and a little

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Speaker 1: bit of you know, um savviness. And I think that

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Speaker 1: and I mean, she clearly has her father's respect correct

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Speaker 1: and like in a way that many women do not people.

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Speaker 1: I think that, Like that's something that in a lot

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Speaker 1: of the research I found for this episode that like

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Speaker 1: it's commonplace apparently for Avanca to be in a meeting

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Speaker 1: with White House officials and be like, I need five

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Speaker 1: minutes alone with my father, and like she has serious

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Speaker 1: power in and Trump is not someone who is like

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Speaker 1: historically takes um criticism and like it's difficult to change

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Speaker 1: his mind. I guess that's what I'm saying. And she

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Speaker 1: clearly has the ability to like she has his ear,

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Speaker 1: she has his ear in a way that I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of White House officials do not. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: I think that's historically been true. And she's been going

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Speaker 1: to the map for him her alive, right, she's been

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Speaker 1: like defending her father on the campaign travel like they've

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Speaker 1: put her up as a prop. They've used her strategically

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Speaker 1: to speak to women on behalf of Donald Trump and

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Speaker 1: for thetent almost white women who voted for Trump spems

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Speaker 1: to clearly worked. I was actually Um at the Republican

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Speaker 1: National Convention when she gave her talks. I was in

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Speaker 1: the audience. Let me tell you that was. I could

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Speaker 1: do a whole episode on the weirdness of being a

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Speaker 1: super lefty black woman with natural hair at the R ANDC.

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Speaker 1: I could do I could we could do an episode

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Speaker 1: on like well meaning but like low key messed up stuff.

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Speaker 1: People said to me, like, like like any highlights, Um,

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Speaker 1: probably some. Oh. The weirdest thing someone asked me was

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Speaker 1: are your parents still married? And this is a total

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Speaker 1: non sequer. Were you like interviewing. No, we were just

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Speaker 1: like sitting at a table. Oh my god, good for

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Speaker 1: you parents. Yeah. So it was a lot of like

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Speaker 1: it was a lot of like trying to be complimentary

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Speaker 1: but actually being like really offensive. What do we what

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Speaker 1: do we call that again? Yeah? It was racism, Yeah

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Speaker 1: it was. It was. It was an interesting scene. But

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Speaker 1: I do feel like I need to shout this out.

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Speaker 1: And so like her speech, she did UM lift up

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Speaker 1: a lot of women's issues that had never been talked

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Speaker 1: about at the Republican National Convention before on the Republican platform, right,

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Speaker 1: And so I I do think that, like that is

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Speaker 1: something you know, worth noting. Whether or not that's going

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Speaker 1: to be a meaningful investment that the administration makes, I

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Speaker 1: would argue probably not. Yeah, but I mean this is

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Speaker 1: part of the reason there was so much hope around

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Speaker 1: her initially, I think so. And I think like in

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Speaker 1: a lot of the research I did, what so kind

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Speaker 1: of like jumps out at me is how good basically

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Speaker 1: all the Trumps are, but particularly Avanca and Donald are.

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Speaker 1: They're so good at branding. And so if you want

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Speaker 1: to brand yourself as someone who was like a champion

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Speaker 1: for women, talk about you know, maternity care and childcare

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Speaker 1: and equal pay on a stage when you're making a

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Speaker 1: flashy speech. But then like do really and so like,

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Speaker 1: so what does it tell us about her speech? So

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Speaker 1: she gets into equal pay, so she says, so, imagine

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Speaker 1: me as Avanka Trump. Uh. This has been This has

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Speaker 1: long been the philosophy at the Trump Organization. At my

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Speaker 1: father's company, there are more female than male executives. Women

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Speaker 1: are paid equally for the work that we do. And

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Speaker 1: when a woman becomes a mother, she is supported, not

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Speaker 1: shut out. Women represent of the total US labor force

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Speaker 1: and of the American households have female primary breadwinners when

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Speaker 1: made eighty three cents for every dollar that a man

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Speaker 1: made single women without children, or ninety four cents for

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Speaker 1: each dollar earned by a man, whereas married mothers made

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Speaker 1: only seventy seven cents. And just to like interrupt for

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Speaker 1: a second, the fact that she gets on the stage

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Speaker 1: at the RNC and talks can about the existence of

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Speaker 1: a gender pay gap, which many Republicans still think is

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Speaker 1: not a real thing, was pretty extraordinary. Some might even

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Speaker 1: call it radical for a Trump is I mean, so

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Speaker 1: this is like kudos to her for that, Like I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't go there, I mean for I mean, for that

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Speaker 1: branding win. So like whether or not it's real, it

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Speaker 1: worked in terms of sort of like my highlighting, that

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Speaker 1: is something that she wants to be sort of known for.

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Speaker 1: So she goes on and she says, as president, my

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Speaker 1: father will change the labor laws that were put into

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Speaker 1: place at a time or women were not a significant

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Speaker 1: portion of the workforce, and he will focus on making

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Speaker 1: quality childcare affordable and accessible for all. Like what, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm down with that. Can we make that happen?

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Speaker 1: We should make that happen. And if that's something that

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Speaker 1: Ivanka Trump is meaningfully invested in doing. Then like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I can I can be down for that. Um. So

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Speaker 1: then she says, as a mother myself of three young children,

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Speaker 1: I know how hard it is to work while raising

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Speaker 1: a family. Pause. She probably doesn't know how hard it is.

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Speaker 1: I mean she probably does, but like not know her

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Speaker 1: nanny nor something like I'm sure she has a team

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Speaker 1: of people, Like come on, um so she says, um,

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Speaker 1: oh she checks her privilege here she goes, and I

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Speaker 1: also know that I'm far more fortunate than most. Um

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Speaker 1: you think. And again I not to like again I

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Speaker 1: I genuinely do think this was like a great thing

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Speaker 1: for her to say, but it does like fall into

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Speaker 1: so much of what I feel like Ivanka Trump, like

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Speaker 1: her blind spots, Like there's this famous anecdote that she

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Speaker 1: has around um starting a lemonade stand at anting at

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Speaker 1: Trump Tower, and she's like, oh, we wanted to have

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Speaker 1: this lemonade stand, but because we lived in like a

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Speaker 1: mansion or whatever, there was no one to by eliminated.

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Speaker 1: I'll pour us and so luckily the staff was there

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Speaker 1: when we had our drivers and nurses and nanny's and

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Speaker 1: clocks by eliminated. It was great. Um, And it's like

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Speaker 1: she fails to see how that I'm sure she thinks

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Speaker 1: of that as a charming anecdote, but like she fails

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Speaker 1: to see how it kind of cement to her as

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Speaker 1: like someone who was like not like us, right, like

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Speaker 1: not like not like normal working with um. Right. So,

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Speaker 1: but I think what she's saying here is does have

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Speaker 1: some merit. Right. She goes on to say, American families

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Speaker 1: need relief. Policies that allow women with children to thrive

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Speaker 1: should not be novelties, they should be the norm. With that.

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Speaker 1: Politicians talk about wage equality, but my father has made

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Speaker 1: it a practice at his company throughout his entire career.

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Speaker 1: What she's alluding to without saying explicitly, is that her

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Speaker 1: father has a record of treating women equally and fairly,

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Speaker 1: and that he believes in workplace policies that would level

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Speaker 1: the playing field. This is some serious or really in

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Speaker 1: ask double speak in action, like you might call it

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Speaker 1: good branding, But I think what has been so troubling

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Speaker 1: is seeing someone paint this kind of a picture on

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Speaker 1: the RNC stage, and then just a little bit of

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Speaker 1: journalism is required to see how far from reality that

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Speaker 1: actually is in her company listen, And I think it's

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Speaker 1: fair to say, like we probably shouldn't hold her accountable.

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Speaker 1: Are the way that her father has run his company,

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Speaker 1: although to be fair, she's isn't she like part of

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Speaker 1: the blind not so blind trust that's like running it

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Speaker 1: right now? Yeah? I mean I don't. I it's it's

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Speaker 1: And again it's the reason why this is confusing and

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Speaker 1: motor grappling with it. It's because they've made it purposefully

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Speaker 1: confusing and difficult to sort out. What's like you don't

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Speaker 1: really know like who's running one in terms of their

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Speaker 1: their companies, Like it's not it's like it's by I

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Speaker 1: think it's by design, and then it's not clear. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so I think it's interesting that you bring up

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Speaker 1: her her like lifestyle brand because let me talking about that.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about women who Work is what it's called.

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Speaker 1: And I had just started boss up when Ivanka Trump's

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Speaker 1: Women who Work campaign came out. I cannot tell you

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Speaker 1: how many people sent it to me like it was

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Speaker 1: something I would enjoy. They were like, check it out.

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Speaker 1: You're like totally in the zeitgeist, you know, like you

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Speaker 1: and Avanka, And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: no no, Like, is she going to do something substantive

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Speaker 1: to help women who work? Um? The answer was a

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Speaker 1: resounding no from my observations. Um, but what is what

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Speaker 1: is the what is her brand all about? What her

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Speaker 1: brand is all about sort of supporting working women? And

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Speaker 1: I kind of cannot sort of stress is enough. It's this,

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Speaker 1: it's in this way, and again like I'm not I'm

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Speaker 1: mindful the fact that I'm not trying to tear her

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Speaker 1: down individually because I don't know her, but if she

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Speaker 1: wants to come on the show, I would love to

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Speaker 1: have her. But you know, you know, when you look

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Speaker 1: at her actual brand, it's this kind of like yeah,

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Speaker 1: girl power, working women are great, Like you know, it's

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Speaker 1: a celebration of of a certain kind of working women.

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Speaker 1: And for me, feminism is not feminism if it doesn't

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Speaker 1: kind of lift up women who are not like rich

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Speaker 1: white ladies like like Avonka Trump is. And it seems

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Speaker 1: like her brand is really tailored to us specific kind

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Speaker 1: of woman's experience. And to be fair, she was already

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Speaker 1: making clothing. There's a lot of um speculation out there

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Speaker 1: that she just launched women who Work so that she

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Speaker 1: could capitalize on the popularity of feminism brought on by

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Speaker 1: you know, at the time, lean In was the number

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Speaker 1: one selling book. We can talk about Cheryl Sandberg and

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Speaker 1: Vanka Trump and their commonalities there. And what's interesting is

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Speaker 1: in the research I found, Um, she was actually trying

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Speaker 1: to pitch a podcast, did you know where she would

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Speaker 1: talk to folks like Sheryl Sandberg and other like successful

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Speaker 1: female entrepreneurs. And that's kidding, what a great idea, and

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Speaker 1: that that podcast never never material It's hard to control

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Speaker 1: the message when you're just riffing. So I feel like

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Speaker 1: that's not that's not tight enough of a medium for her,

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Speaker 1: Like she might say something I'm sure the comms shop

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Speaker 1: at the White House like yeah, um. And so what

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Speaker 1: I think, what I find fascinating is some of the

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Speaker 1: folks who have actually worked on the Women Who Work

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Speaker 1: campaign have reported horror stories and really it points out

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Speaker 1: this kind of hypocrisy that I think might be inherent

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Speaker 1: in your brand. So well, let's let's take a quick

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Speaker 1: break and before we when we come back, we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk through how all the high hopes that we

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Speaker 1: might have had for Ivanka's ability to be a calming

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Speaker 1: influence on her father or even dare I say a

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Speaker 1: feminist influence in the Trump administration has become less and

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Speaker 1: less of a hope that you can really hold onto

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Speaker 1: because of all the hypocrisy behind not what Ivanka says,

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Speaker 1: but behind what Ivanka does. We'll be right back after

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Speaker 1: a quick word from our sponsors, and we're back, and

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Speaker 1: we're talking about Ivanka Trump's company or slash lifestyle brand. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And I wanna peel the layers back a little bit here.

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Speaker 1: We've heard all the great things she said on the

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Speaker 1: stage at the Republican National Committee, and I was right there,

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Speaker 1: you know, tweeting along and cheering along. Uh. And I

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Speaker 1: have to say, as someone who was there, what did

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Speaker 1: it feel after? I mean, after after speech after speech

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Speaker 1: after speech of like hateful, awful, terrible stuff being like

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Speaker 1: probably my personal low moment was a black megachurch teacher

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Speaker 1: leaning a chance of all lives matter, I like turn

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Speaker 1: into a little puff of puff of dust and blew

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Speaker 1: away into the wind. So that was like a scary

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Speaker 1: moment where I was like, oh God, people stood up

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Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, this one old dicey how Vanka

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Speaker 1: would be a refreshing on Parnidet. So when Avonka came

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Speaker 1: under lag, I was like, thank God, like someone who

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Speaker 1: is like not being like awfulness. Right. Well, that's the

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Speaker 1: thing is that what she says sounds really good. But

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Speaker 1: let's look at what happens when you happen to be

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Speaker 1: a woman who works at women who work with the

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Speaker 1: women who work at women of work, women and women.

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Speaker 1: It's a tongue, there is one, but you know what

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Speaker 1: we're trying to say here, So what are the policies

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Speaker 1: that she has in her own company and how does

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Speaker 1: how does that correlate, relate or not to what she

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Speaker 1: said on the stage there. So one thing to know

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Speaker 1: is that she does not seem to have a great

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Speaker 1: track record of supporting working women at her own organizations

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Speaker 1: and the organizations that she works with. So, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: one of the things that she talked about at the

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Speaker 1: air and see was maternity care. And so Marissa Cracksburger,

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Speaker 1: I think I'm saying that right. If I'm saying that wrong,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Marissa is a last name. Um. She was

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Speaker 1: a former executive who worked on the Women Who Were

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Speaker 1: campaign and She's been very vocal about the fact that

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Speaker 1: like she found it, she does she I think that

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Speaker 1: she doesn't call it fly out hypocrisy, but she's like,

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Speaker 1: I find it surprising that Ivanka Trump is like making

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Speaker 1: sort of gender equality issues her platform, considering what it

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Speaker 1: was like to work there. Um. So she was quoted

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Speaker 1: as saying, and this is Avanka right, Okay, cool. So

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Speaker 1: she's so Cracksburger become now, yeah, Cracksburger becomes pregnant while

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Speaker 1: working for Trump, right, and that they she says, you know,

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Speaker 1: we don't have any maternity care and that when she

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Speaker 1: asked um Avanka Trump about it, she was like, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I went right back to work after the

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Speaker 1: week after having my kids, so it's just not something

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Speaker 1: I'm used to. And you're just like, what, like, I

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Speaker 1: mean what it's infuriating. And also I think it really

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Speaker 1: comes back to something I know I've said a million times,

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Speaker 1: but when folks like Marissa Mayer talk about like going

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Speaker 1: back to work, it's her choice. So I am not

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Speaker 1: shaming her at all for going back to work, because

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Speaker 1: do what you gotta do, Like, no judgment, no shame,

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Speaker 1: but to pretend that, like your life is similar to

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Speaker 1: the life of someone who is not mega rich, mega powerful, whatever,

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Speaker 1: and that your choice to go back to work that

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Speaker 1: same week or the week later is on par with

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Speaker 1: the choice of like one of your staffs. I think

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Speaker 1: that's really disingenuous. It's just like to me, it's just

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Speaker 1: like the conversation around pro choice pro life, which is

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Speaker 1: there's a difference between making your own choice for your

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Speaker 1: own body and projecting your choice as the only one

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Speaker 1: that would be right for anyone to ever make about

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Speaker 1: their situation. So when we say, hey, I went back

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Speaker 1: to work in a week after having delivered my kid

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Speaker 1: because I had an annie and whatever, or because I'm

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Speaker 1: that devoted to my job, that's fine. But does that

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Speaker 1: mean you have to project your values and your choices

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Speaker 1: on everyone else? Do you think everyone has this same

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Speaker 1: ability to do that or should And it's like, and

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Speaker 1: I I something that and this maybe sounds a bit strange,

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Speaker 1: but this was something that I feel like was driven

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Speaker 1: home to me when we talked about Serena Williams, you know,

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Speaker 1: being a badass tennis player while pregnant, like like to

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Speaker 1: expect that like Serrina Williams probably wouldn't be like, oh well,

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Speaker 1: I could do this all pregnant, why doesn't everyone else right, Like,

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Speaker 1: she didn't say that importantly, but she didn't say like

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Speaker 1: she probably like and it's like the idea that we

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Speaker 1: should be basically did it so you should be able

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Speaker 1: to basically choices on like what some women are able

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Speaker 1: to do or not do, Like this doesn't make sense.

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Speaker 1: So notably, they did change their policy, right, Like, with

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Speaker 1: the advocacy of the Women who Work at Women who Work,

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Speaker 1: they were able to make changes and put in place

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Speaker 1: a policy for two month paid family leave, which is commendable.

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, it's inspiring for women out there

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Speaker 1: who are listening who are pregnant in a small business

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Speaker 1: or a startup environment that just hasn't figured that out yet,

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Speaker 1: hasn't made it a priority. But I think that's kind

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Speaker 1: and for like startup environments, I mean, you have to

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Speaker 1: push hard and you have very little safety net, and

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Speaker 1: like they could just say no. But I think this

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Speaker 1: is a model of what individual advocacy can do when

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Speaker 1: there's a lack of a social safety net in place

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Speaker 1: to make you know, collective advocacy a thing. So when

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Speaker 1: we don't have policies in place nationally, it really falls

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Speaker 1: on us as individuals to advocate for what we need personally,

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Speaker 1: which kind of sucks because that's way harder and it

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Speaker 1: requires a lot of privilege. It is hard, um, But

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Speaker 1: I also love kind of going off of Marissa's point.

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Speaker 1: So she was obviously like was surprised that, you know,

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Speaker 1: she was working with Avanca and didn't get maternity leave,

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Speaker 1: but she also just like doesn't seem to be that

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Speaker 1: thrilled about the place where Avanca took the Women who

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Speaker 1: Work campaign in general, Like it sounds like the women

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Speaker 1: who work campaing with something that the people who work

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Speaker 1: on really proud of passion, and that they kind of

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Speaker 1: thought that Avanka kind of made the brand all about her.

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Speaker 1: So this is a quote that Cracksburger posted on Facebook.

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Speaker 1: She says, the company and the women who work platform

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Speaker 1: we created was meant to inspire and encourage women to

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Speaker 1: work at all aspects of their lives and live the

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Speaker 1: lives they wanted to live. But before our very eyes,

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Speaker 1: Avanca took the platform and made it all about herself.

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Speaker 1: And now it's being dragged alongside this man who could

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Speaker 1: potentially be the face of the country. And this is

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Speaker 1: back m during the campaign. This is why it's really

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Speaker 1: important to actually not be had by companies who are

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Speaker 1: taking whatever they're they're selling and turning it into a

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Speaker 1: feminist revolution. Like you have, Like, there are lots of

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Speaker 1: ways to quote unquote empower women. There are lots of

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Speaker 1: choices you make as a business owner that I've had

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Speaker 1: to make, which is like how much of my personal

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Speaker 1: brand should be central to the bossed up brand? Those

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Speaker 1: are questions that how you answer them reflects your values,

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Speaker 1: and you've gotta be you gotta be really vigilant about

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Speaker 1: not just supporting brands but also working for companies that

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Speaker 1: share your values, because it sounds like what happened is

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Speaker 1: that these folks working on women who work were bought

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Speaker 1: into the premise, but the way it was executed diverged

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Speaker 1: from their values that they thought they shared totally. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's exactly it right that like not every

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Speaker 1: company organization person who sells feminism as like as like

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Speaker 1: a good thing is really doing it with their with

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Speaker 1: their hearts in the right place. And um, I love,

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Speaker 1: love love this quote from Michelle Goldberg and Slate as

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Speaker 1: a review. It's a it's a really like if you're

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Speaker 1: looking to like for a good read. It is a

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Speaker 1: read like in the In the spense of the word um,

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Speaker 1: she says this book is not about policy or navigating

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Speaker 1: the mind field of male dominated corporate culture. Much of

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Speaker 1: it is a celebration of the unlimited possibilities open to

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Speaker 1: working women when they have full time household help. At

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Speaker 1: one point of Anka describes how much she valued having

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Speaker 1: a standing Wednesday lunch date with her daughter before she

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Speaker 1: started kindergarten. She came into the office. She prefers my

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Speaker 1: pink Avanca Trump office to my real estate one, in

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Speaker 1: part because it has a kid's desk that folds out

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Speaker 1: of the wall, complete with treats, toys, colored pencils, and markers.

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Speaker 1: She writes, of course, tophers don't just quote swing by

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Speaker 1: the office. Someone has to bring them. If you're able

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Speaker 1: to hire that person, you've got a major problem facing

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Speaker 1: most working parents. Licked right, So anecdote, Well, and it's

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Speaker 1: what's funny is I've noticed this as an entrepreneur, that

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Speaker 1: a lot of brands have become focused on a personal brand.

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Speaker 1: And that's what Sheriff Sandberg did with lean in, Like

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Speaker 1: there's a limit to your personal narrative being um applicable

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Speaker 1: to everyone else's narrative and everyone else's story and the

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Speaker 1: sort of public narrative, and we have to be careful

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Speaker 1: about that. But what people want to read is an

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Speaker 1: individual story. So like, if you're not checking your privilege

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Speaker 1: when you're writing your own story, which is something that

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Speaker 1: you and I do bridge quite a lot, it's hard,

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Speaker 1: it's really hard to do. It's easy to fall into

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Speaker 1: those blind spots. But it's important to note that women

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Speaker 1: who work the brand the lifestyle company did turn into

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Speaker 1: Ivanka's book Women, which is what you were just well,

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Speaker 1: I think it's it's good to note because holy Machael,

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Speaker 1: you've got to read the reviews about this book, because

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Speaker 1: it is crazy how how much people are sort of

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Speaker 1: stomping all over it. And it's a little it's a

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Speaker 1: little egregious. I think, in what way say more about that?

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Speaker 1: I think it's well, maybe I'm just sensitive because I'm

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Speaker 1: someone who writes publicly and knows what it's like to

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Speaker 1: get things wrong and be trashed for getting them wrong. Um,

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Speaker 1: not that that happens very yet, right, but I think, um,

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Speaker 1: I think they were rightful critiques here, a lot of them,

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Speaker 1: including all the quotes that she took out of context

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Speaker 1: in the book is basically vapid and I think that's accurate.

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Speaker 1: What are some of the quotes that were taken out

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Speaker 1: of context for this book? Well, the most important one

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Speaker 1: I thought was just jaw dropping lee ignorant, was, wasn't

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Speaker 1: it Tony Morrison's quote from Beloved, which is a really

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Speaker 1: important read. She had women like a vanka something. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I feel like it's like those to each other exactly.

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Speaker 1: So the quote from Tony Morrison was bit by bit.

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Speaker 1: She had reclaimed herself. Freeing yourself was one thing, Claiming

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Speaker 1: ownership of that freed self was another. And in that

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Speaker 1: she's talking about like some serious trauma that the main

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Speaker 1: character Beloved, not to give any spoilers away, had like

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Speaker 1: recovered from that have a lot to do with uh

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Speaker 1: indentured servitude and rape And am I not like calling

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Speaker 1: that correctly? Yeah? I mean, like really horrific things that

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Speaker 1: Tony Morrison's character and oh wait, based on her own

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Speaker 1: life story, had experienced and gone through. And it's an

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Speaker 1: amazing really you should pick it up if you haven't

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Speaker 1: read it already. But here's the age of pinterest taking

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Speaker 1: quotes out of context, as like all about the inspirational quote.

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Speaker 1: And I love a good inspirational hate inspirational quote. They're

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Speaker 1: so good for the Internet, though, I mean, they get

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Speaker 1: like that's the thing they like. But I'm always like,

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Speaker 1: people love our Monday motivation stuff more than almost anything

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Speaker 1: we do. They love money motivation tiles. Anyway, However, what

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Speaker 1: does she do She equates it with she equates business

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Speaker 1: with slavery in the way that she takes that quote

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Speaker 1: out of context. Um so Morrison's words here. This is

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Speaker 1: a great piece in Huff Poe by Priscilla Frank, who

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Speaker 1: breaks it down and says Tony Morrison's words reflect the

429
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 1: experience of liberation after being the literal property of another

430
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 1: human being. Trump updates the phrase to address the modern

431
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,440
Speaker 1: dilemma of spending too much time on one's phone. It's

432
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,920
Speaker 1: the same thing. Are you a slave to your time

433
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,879
Speaker 1: or the master of it? Trump asked, seriously, using the

434
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 1: words slave and master while quoting Tony Morrison to talk

435
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 1: about time management. That is disgusting. So if you are

436
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,480
Speaker 1: in the personal and professional development space, this is a

437
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,479
Speaker 1: good example of how to do it wrong. And this

438
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,199
Speaker 1: is what I'm paranoid of myself making a mistake on

439
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 1: that front. This is why I creepily relate to this,

440
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,639
Speaker 1: because when you are in the business of empowerment, you

441
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,120
Speaker 1: can swing and miss so hard and you just swing

442
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:06,879
Speaker 1: like you you hit yourself in the face with the

443
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 1: bat and this is this is this is miss um.

444
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:12,440
Speaker 1: So I really want to talk a little bit about

445
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 1: how folks are responding to Avanca and I think that

446
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,879
Speaker 1: we should do that after a quick break from our sponsor,

447
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:27,679
Speaker 1: so we were just talking about some of the ways

448
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 1: that folks have been responding to Avanka Trump and her

449
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 1: you know, particular brand of feminism. Um. And I think

450
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 1: it's interesting because I always feel like women are smart,

451
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 1: women are savvy. Women know when someone is like faking

452
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 1: the feminist funk, right Like you can't fake feminist bona fide.

453
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:46,919
Speaker 1: You can brand yourself all you want, but people know.

454
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 1: And so I think that that's one of the reasons

455
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 1: why you see women responding to her in such a

456
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,360
Speaker 1: visceral negative way. Um. I find it really funny that

457
00:23:55,560 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 1: the book especially became like a symbol, uh of hate

458
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 1: for Avanka. And I hate to use that words is

459
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:08,399
Speaker 1: the strong one, but people, I think are women are frustrated. Understandably,

460
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 1: women are under attack, as we've discussed many times on

461
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 1: this podcast, and it's an easy way to sort of

462
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 1: express your anger and frustration via this book. So what

463
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 1: are we seeing people on Instagram? For people on Instagram

464
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: and on Twitter are taking pictures of her books. I

465
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 1: can't imagine that this is actually like where the book

466
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 1: has been placed at bookstores, but like it will be

467
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: a picture of her book place that Barnes a noble

468
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: next to like the book trust Me I'm lying, or

469
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 1: a book on like famous political cover ups and scandals. Um.

470
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,199
Speaker 1: And so it's like, clearly people are gleefully, you know,

471
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 1: posting these pictures. And again I mean like I think

472
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 1: the reason why you see why you've seen her her

473
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 1: book launch and her you know campaigns really be hijacked

474
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 1: by people who don't like her and are using her

475
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 1: own her own campaign to express that frustration. It's because

476
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 1: people are responding to the fact that like she's she's

477
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 1: her brand comes off. It's very hypocritical, and for me,

478
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 1: I was sort of well, duh, like are we surprised

479
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: by this? I remember being momentarily optimistic back in two

480
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 1: thousand and thirteen when women who work first came out.

481
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,640
Speaker 1: They put out a really beautiful video with a bunch

482
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: of female entrepreneurs, some of whom I really admire. Who

483
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: I wonder right now if they regret sort of making

484
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: a cameo and avanca Trump's Women Who Work campaign, but

485
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,199
Speaker 1: you know, women whose businesses I certainly admire. I was

486
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 1: like very quickly disillusioned when she started hawking three hundred

487
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,199
Speaker 1: fifty dollar bracelets and said, this is what feminism is,

488
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, duh, of course this

489
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: is going to be hypocritical, disappointing and vapid. What else

490
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: did you expect? So were you surprised by the outright

491
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 1: anger that people are showing on social media? You know?

492
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's interesting how Avanka has kind

493
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 1: of become a symbol of that anger, like like you know, um,

494
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: like hearing d C. That's something that's been happening that's

495
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 1: kind of interesting, is folks have been taking to gathering

496
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,959
Speaker 1: on the lawns or in the neighborhood from administration official

497
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 1: and so she was a target of one of those

498
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 1: where um, a lot of queer activists in d C

499
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 1: went to her actual house and had a big queer

500
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 1: dance party on her front was hilarious. Also, I spawned

501
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 1: I think the best meme of wearing her fur and

502
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,199
Speaker 1: breaking a glass of wine and just look at like

503
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,439
Speaker 1: very much like like shout out to that lady. If

504
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 1: you're listening, please come on the show, friend of the show,

505
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: please come on. Let's also I mean, here's the thing

506
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 1: is that I do have one issue with making a

507
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 1: Vanka a target in this way, and lord knows, I

508
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,679
Speaker 1: have been very clear about my feelings about her. But

509
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: why do we hold a Vanka to a higher standard

510
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 1: than all the dudes who have power in the administration.

511
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: The reason is we we expect more from her because

512
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: she's first of all been public about making women's issues

513
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 1: her priority and then hasn't. But like, we don't give

514
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: as much grief to Steve Bannon, who clearly is like

515
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 1: not going to be a champion for women's issues and

516
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: never never, never was. So really it's just expectations, not

517
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: meaning reality. I think that's a good point. I mean,

518
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: I also think it like I've been very clear on

519
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 1: the show about sort of the attacks that the blatant

520
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 1: attacks the Trump administration has taken against women, um working women,

521
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 1: poor women women globally, all the women right, like, and

522
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,159
Speaker 1: part of me is like, is it fair to hold

523
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 1: Ivanka accountable for the policy and legislative decisions of the

524
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 1: entire Trump administration, whether or not those are issues that

525
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 1: like she worked on, because like I couldn't tell you

526
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: if she worked on the Obamacare repeal bill, but like

527
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: that bill hurts women, And so it's like where do

528
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 1: we draw the line of like should is it fair

529
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: to hold her accountable in a way that's like, hey,

530
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 1: you know you said that you got on a stage

531
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: and promised to be a champion of women, and yet

532
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,719
Speaker 1: you left this administration pat like you know, put out

533
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:54,120
Speaker 1: legislation that endangers women. So which is it right? And that,

534
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,880
Speaker 1: to me is the big question that I'm left asking

535
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 1: after looking into all this stuff, especially which is who

536
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: is Ivanka working on? Behalf of? Okay, she has a

537
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 1: very unclear, unprecedented role in the west wing right, there

538
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:13,159
Speaker 1: were conversations around her replacing Millannia as the first woman

539
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,160
Speaker 1: or what does it call? That's the one as floatist,

540
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 1: but she's like the first daughter fidotus. I don't like that,

541
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: but I don't like it either, but maybe it's fitting.

542
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 1: So the question is, and I think New York Magazine

543
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:31,440
Speaker 1: had a really great, um incisive Instagram post most recently

544
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: that depicted her as Rosie the Riveter, which I found

545
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: very interesting because when I think about Rosie the Riveter again,

546
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 1: I just I think about Ivanka Trump right, and in

547
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: if they asked, like, who is the who's America's first

548
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: princess working for right, they say she continually tells people

549
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: that she's still quote learning how Washington works. But this

550
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: isn't seventh grade civics. It's the West wing of the

551
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 1: White House, where she seems to have some incalculable amount

552
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: of power, and we're protecting the Trump brand and her

553
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: father's legacy, which will surely affect in turn the value

554
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: of the Trump brand in future decades. Seems as important

555
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 1: to her as working in the nation's service. I could

556
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: not agree more so. She's there as a brand professional,

557
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: working to make sure that the brand value and the

558
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: equity of her company, which is her father's company, retains

559
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: its value, which, by the way, they're having some trouble there.

560
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: But that's an episode. This is not what governing is. No,

561
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: it's not what governance looks like. What's interesting about that

562
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: is that when She's that that very same thing came

563
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 1: up at Evanka's very first like international event Prepaying America,

564
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: and you know, she was very much grilled in Berlin

565
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: at this at this summit alongside Angela Merkell, and you know,

566
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 1: they were like, so, what's your role, like first daughter,

567
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 1: like what is that? And she gave that same line

568
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: of like, well, I'm still kind of figuring out what

569
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: that means, Like like I'll figure it out that like

570
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: chuckle demure smiles. Yeah. And what's funny is that people

571
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: were doing it's endearing and people were so not did

572
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: did not find that endearing in such a big way

573
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 1: that they booned her and hit her. And it's like, yeah,

574
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 1: people know when you're when you're not authentic, and like sorry, homie,

575
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: but it sounds like you're not authentic and people are

576
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 1: responding to that. Yeah, I love this article in New

577
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: York Magazine. She says they end um with And so

578
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: at this moment, Ivanka Trump is quivering on the precipice

579
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: of two related but distinct identities. On the one hand,

580
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: she's rapidly crossing the border that separates simple Fame from

581
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 1: its platinum club. She's on the verge of becoming an

582
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: international lifestyle celebrity of an order not seen since the

583
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 1: high days of Princess Diana. She regularly shares the photogenic

584
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: details of her quote curated life, curated being an important

585
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 1: word to her, along with connectivity. Her beautiful children and

586
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: attractive husband on rich display in the beautiful houses in

587
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 1: which they spend their time. So she's like expanding her

588
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: personal global brand right now on the backs of hard

589
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:05,239
Speaker 1: working American women, right. But on the other hand, this

590
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 1: sort of role that they're comparing her to in this

591
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: article is saying she's becoming something she has never been

592
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 1: in her life, deeply personally and venomously loathed. Oh I love.

593
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: I mean, it's true. There are these articles and local

594
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: DC presses about like protesters, you know, getting in her

595
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: face while she's like getting a blowout, and like at

596
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 1: Soul Cycle around DC like and at Starbucks, like people

597
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: are projecting all their hate on her. And I get

598
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: where that's coming from, but it's like that's that's what

599
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: she's gonna get first of all, to get when this

600
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 1: big of it. I I feel you, like I'm sensing

601
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: in what you're saying, is that like part of it

602
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 1: is like, oh wow, like people this really hate her,

603
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 1: and I definitely, like part of me feels for her,

604
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: but another part of me says, this, she made a choice.

605
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: She could have very easily said, you know, I love

606
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: my dad. I support what he's doing. Like she didn't

607
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: have to get herself so involved, like Tiffany is not

608
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 1: like out there We've got there's a deeper story that

609
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time on the web trunk

610
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: that's another episode. Um, but yeah, I mean, like come

611
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,719
Speaker 1: on a show. Yeah, we would love to have going

612
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: to Georgetown. That's right. I think she's pretty should we

613
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 1: should show where the d C sites, Yeah, we should.

614
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 1: So anybody who knows Teffany give her a holler for us. Um.

615
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean I always remind myself that she

616
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: didn't have to embed herself in her father's administration. Yeah,

617
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: like she she made a choice. And you know, I'm

618
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: someone who like, if you're the child, Like a friend

619
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 1: of mine is the grandchild of a very well known

620
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: Republican politician, and you know, it's like you don't like,

621
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 1: I don't think that the grown children of politicians should

622
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: be you know, dragged into this. But if you make

623
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 1: the choice to enter it. You get what you get,

624
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 1: and like this is part of it, and like I

625
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: feel for her, but like you made the choice. I'm

626
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: like you gotta. We're watching, Ivanka. I think the big

627
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: question here is what will you do? Will you live

628
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 1: up to the campaign's stuff that was floated there for

629
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: an unprecedented like statement around Republicans actually caring about working women?

630
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: Will women who work actually end up liking you? Ivanka?

631
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: The options are yours, right, you have unprecedented power, you

632
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 1: have unprecedented access, So what are you gonna do with that? Yeah?

633
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: And like I want to know where will Avanka Trump

634
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: be putting her social and political capital? And honestly, like

635
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: I am someone who like if Ivanka Trump turned it

636
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 1: all around, I would be like, get it, girl, Like

637
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: I would be on her side, like I would. Yeah,

638
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: And so I think that she should really use this

639
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: as a challenge to to do that. So far, I'm

640
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 1: jaded and disappointed. Yeah, honestly, I just want to know

641
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: what you'll think about Ivanka Trump. I'm very curious. I mean,

642
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Speaker 1: I know she's a devisive figure and like maybe y'all

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Speaker 1: like her, like I used to kind of like her before. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like I loved her on when she would be on

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Speaker 1: sharp tink Um. Oh I miss that. Yeah, sheol was

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Speaker 1: Shark Tank, right, I don't know. Yeah, I mean I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be suppressed. Yeah, and I had a couple of

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Speaker 1: pairs of her shoes. I used to like her. So

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Speaker 1: I'm really curious what y'all think about Ivanka Trump. So

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Speaker 1: please let us know. You can hit us up on

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Speaker 1: Instagram at stuff mom ever told you you find to

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Speaker 1: your Yeah, I want to see us. Um. You can

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Speaker 1: tweet at us at mom Stuff podcast, or hit us

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Speaker 1: up on email Old Fashion Style mom stuff at how

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Speaker 1: stuff works dot com