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Speaker 1: All right, So guys, we have an exciting interview for

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Speaker 1: you with Andrew Yang. I had the chance to sit

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Speaker 1: down with him for an hour as part of his

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Speaker 1: book launch, kind of a co production that's going on

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Speaker 1: his podcast we're able to share with you, guys. And

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Speaker 1: we had talked to you earlier about the fact that

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Speaker 1: he's planning on launching a third party and the thing

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Speaker 1: he really wants to focus in on our rank choice

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Speaker 1: voting and open primaries, and you guys know when we

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Speaker 1: talked about it, here's a little skeptical of that plan, right,

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Speaker 1: And so I had a chance to kind of press

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Speaker 1: him on what his thinking is and why you're making

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Speaker 1: this tactical decision, and you know, why not do this

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Speaker 1: through the Democratic Party or why not start a nonprofit?

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Speaker 1: Why are you going the third party route when we

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Speaker 1: just know how Hi, the deck is stacked against third

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Speaker 1: party efforts, even ones that have great policies, great people

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Speaker 1: involved in all of that. So we get into all

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Speaker 1: of that. I felt like I came away with a

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Speaker 1: much better understanding of what he's up to and what

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Speaker 1: his plans are. I think it's actually really interesting. I

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Speaker 1: hope you guys enjoy it. It's a long interview, hour long,

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Speaker 1: and we get into his mayoral races, presidential campaign, anecdotes,

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Speaker 1: his treatment by the media, all of that stuff in

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Speaker 1: this hour. So here it is hope you enjoy it.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Hi, everybody very excited to be joined today

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Speaker 1: by the one and only Andrew Yang. Andrew. I know

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Speaker 1: in your book, your new book, Forward, which is the

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Speaker 1: reason for this conversation, you talk about how they would

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Speaker 1: always introduce you in like the veguest possible way as

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Speaker 1: businessman Andrew billionaire. Now, yeah, exactly, tech billionaire, right, must be,

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Speaker 1: it has to be. That's not a stereotype at all.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, So now, obviously we've added a lot of

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Speaker 1: other things to your intro. Former presidential candidate, former mayoral candidate,

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Speaker 1: author now of multiple books, the latest one being Forward.

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Speaker 1: I have a copy to look at this democracy on

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Speaker 1: the bag. What does it saying, Crystal Ball, despite being

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Speaker 1: ignored and written off by mainstream media, No. Twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: candidate had more of an impact in changing our political

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Speaker 1: conversation than Andrew. Yeah, thank you, Crystal. I meantal lissome true.

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Speaker 1: So I bring a very unbiased perspective to this. No.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, my very first question for you. Congratulations

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Speaker 1: first of all. Second of all, how did you find

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Speaker 1: time to write a book? Andrew? I came off the

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Speaker 1: trail in February, and then COVID happened, and You're right,

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Speaker 1: I was busy during that time. I was a surrogate

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Speaker 1: for Joe. I started a nonprofit we distributed eight million dollars.

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Speaker 1: I was podcasting, obviously, got involved with a number of

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Speaker 1: other things, like a data rights campaign and some anti

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Speaker 1: Asian hate campaigns, just trying to solve problems during twenty twenty,

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Speaker 1: all while trying to get Trump out of there. But

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Speaker 1: night would fall, my kids would go to bed at

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Speaker 1: around nine thirty or ten pm, and then I would

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Speaker 1: write until one am. Is the way it would go.

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Speaker 1: It's like ten to one were my writing hours, Crystal,

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Speaker 1: and then I'd get up, you know, a little bit sluggish,

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Speaker 1: a little bit late. But I tried to make the

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Speaker 1: most of last year because coming off the presidential trail,

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Speaker 1: I knew that there were some experiences I really wanted

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Speaker 1: to capture and document, and I wanted to get them

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Speaker 1: all they were fresh. So I got to writing really

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Speaker 1: in March, and I wrote every if not every day,

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Speaker 1: certainly every week through the entirety of last year. I

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Speaker 1: have to think, also, you know, I did not run

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Speaker 1: for president, but I did run for Congress, and so

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Speaker 1: I have just the tiniest taste of what it's like

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Speaker 1: after that campaign ends, and the sort of like the

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Speaker 1: adrenaline of that, and the emotional rollercoaster of that, and

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Speaker 1: these incredible highs and lows that you're experiencing on a

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Speaker 1: daily basis when that all goes away. It also seems

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Speaker 1: to me like this was probably a really good way

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Speaker 1: for you to kind of like work through what that

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Speaker 1: experience was all about, and also just to keep yourself

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Speaker 1: on track and super busy. Your schedule is already packed,

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Speaker 1: but you decided to pack it in even more. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I was very useful processing and reflecting, and it was

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Speaker 1: a whirlwind on the presidential trail. I did very little

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Speaker 1: reflecting when I was running, That's for sure. It was

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Speaker 1: just Okay, what needs to happen right now, where are

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Speaker 1: we going, what's the media appearance, what's the event, what's

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Speaker 1: the rally? And then when the campaign ended, I was

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Speaker 1: wiped out, frankly, but I also felt this real obligation

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Speaker 1: to try to keep the movement going and growing because

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Speaker 1: I felt so indebted to the people that had supported me.

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Speaker 1: And when I suspended my campaign, a lot of people

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Speaker 1: were very upset, and that hurts too, because you know,

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Speaker 1: you see all these messages, You're getting all these messages,

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Speaker 1: and so I wanted to make good on what I

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Speaker 1: felt like was the promise of the campaign. Certainly, I'm

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Speaker 1: really proud that it felt like we really advanced the

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Speaker 1: cause of cash relief. Where when the twelve hundred dollars

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Speaker 1: checks first started going out, I got dozens of press

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Speaker 1: requests being like, do you feel like you've been proven right?

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Speaker 1: And I always tried to say that it's really all

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Speaker 1: thanks to the Yangyang and the folks who supported us.

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Speaker 1: But I heard from dozens of members of Congress who

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Speaker 1: said to me that they thought that our campaign was

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Speaker 1: a reason why cash was front and center. They said

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Speaker 1: that without us, it might not have been as ready

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Speaker 1: a solution. I don't think there's any doubt about that.

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Speaker 1: I also don't think there's any doubt that of the

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Speaker 1: various stimulus measures that were taken during the pandemic, direct

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Speaker 1: cash aid was the most effective. It certainly seems like

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Speaker 1: the research bears that out. It also was the thing

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Speaker 1: that our government was most able to handle. Didn't create

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Speaker 1: a lot of needless you know, like right now we're

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Speaker 1: dealing with We had this eviction ratorium. There was aid

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Speaker 1: pass to help renters be able to stay in their homes,

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Speaker 1: to help make sure that you know, small landlords were

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Speaker 1: kept hole as well in the process, and such a

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Speaker 1: tiny sliver of that wet out because it fell to

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Speaker 1: state and local governments. There were a million hopes for

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Speaker 1: renters to be able to jump through to get that aid.

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Speaker 1: So it really did sort of prove out your thesis that, look,

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Speaker 1: this is the most straightforward approach, and it's also the

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Speaker 1: most effective approach. I think we really saw that this year.

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Speaker 1: It's infuriating how little of the rental aid got out.

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Speaker 1: I think right now it's at seventeen percent eight months

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Speaker 1: in two point six million families are potentially going to

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Speaker 1: get evicted, and so our government allocated the money, but

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Speaker 1: it just wasn't able to get to the people that

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Speaker 1: needed it. Because the fact is, if state and local

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Speaker 1: governments don't get it into your hands, nothing bad happens

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Speaker 1: to them. It's I oh, like you know, eighty three

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Speaker 1: percent of it still sitting in an account somewhere while

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Speaker 1: people's lives are being disrupted and kids are being traumatized.

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Speaker 1: The whole thing really should make us all angry. And

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Speaker 1: I think you were one of the people that talked

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Speaker 1: about how when the Cares Act first came out that

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Speaker 1: so much of it went into the hands of megacorps

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Speaker 1: and institutions, and I think the numbers I saw said

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Speaker 1: that less than eighteen percent of it actually went to

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Speaker 1: people and families, which is a recurring theme. And if

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Speaker 1: you have two point two trillion, you could conceivably have

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Speaker 1: given every American one thousand bucks a month for six months,

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Speaker 1: which I'm going to suggest probably would have made a

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Speaker 1: lot of Americans much happier than what we did do,

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Speaker 1: which was send money in every direction but toward the

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Speaker 1: people that needed it. Yeah, And it's also just a

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Speaker 1: respectful solution. It's giving people the respect of well lieving

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Speaker 1: that they know what to do with that money, that

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Speaker 1: they're going to spend it wisely, which again the research

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Speaker 1: has shown and born out time and time again. There

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Speaker 1: are a million things I want to get to if

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Speaker 1: you have so many questions for you, But Crystal, I

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Speaker 1: want to first three hour podcast. There you go, We'll

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Speaker 1: go Joe Rogan style, will go, you know, three hours,

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Speaker 1: three and a half hours. No wrong, No. I want

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Speaker 1: to jump into the big news making from this book,

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Speaker 1: which is that you announce that you are launching the

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Speaker 1: Forward Party. You announced the planks of that it is

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Speaker 1: a third party. You're sort of giving up on the

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Speaker 1: Democratic Party, or so it would seem, and striking out

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Speaker 1: on your own. Talk to me about what the Forward

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Speaker 1: Party is all about and how you came to the

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Speaker 1: decision that a third party is a better pathway than

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Speaker 1: trying to reform the Democratic Party from within. One important

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Speaker 1: thing to know, Crystal, And I'd love to hear what

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Speaker 1: you thought about the book, because I'm really spoken to

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Speaker 1: you about it. But I wrote this book in twenty twenty,

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Speaker 1: late at night, like reflecting on my journey and what

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Speaker 1: I had experienced and what I thought the real problems were.

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Speaker 1: And in that process I learned a lot. And I've

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Speaker 1: read books by Jonathan Height and Lawrence Lessig and Ezra

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Speaker 1: Klein and Catherine Gail and Michael Porter and all these

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Speaker 1: other books because I was trying to put my finger

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Speaker 1: on something that had been nagging at me through the

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Speaker 1: process and right now we're being set up to fail. Truly,

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Speaker 1: there are different people who are listening to this who

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Speaker 1: have different feelings about the Democratic Party and its efficacy.

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Speaker 1: But I would actually look at the rental aid program

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Speaker 1: as a microcosm of what's going on in our government,

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Speaker 1: where if you have a program, in that case, you

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Speaker 1: dedicated tens of billions of dollars to a renter's aid,

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Speaker 1: and it doesn't get to anyone. What happens. What happens

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Speaker 1: to our leaders, absolutely nothing. What happens to the bureaucrats

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Speaker 1: who are meant to administer the program, absolutely nothing, Nothing happens.

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Speaker 1: The connection between us and our representatives is not what

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Speaker 1: we want it to be, and not what most of

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Speaker 1: us believe it to be. And so when I was

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Speaker 1: researching this book, I found that there were a bunch

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Speaker 1: of truths that most of us le's ignore, Like the

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Speaker 1: fact that only ten percent of Americans are essentially responsible

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Speaker 1: for electing eighty three percent of our representatives. Like the

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Speaker 1: fact that overall approval of Congress is at twenty eight

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Speaker 1: percent now and the re election rate for individual reps

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Speaker 1: is ninety two percent. I'm actually curious, Crystal, in your

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Speaker 1: congressional race. What was the dynamic? Was it an incumbent? Like,

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Speaker 1: who are you running against? Yes, I was running against

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Speaker 1: an incumbent in a very conservative district of Virginia. He's

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Speaker 1: actually still there? A Republican who's still there? And it

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Speaker 1: was during twenty ten, so the Tea Party waves. So

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Speaker 1: I was running as a progressive in a conservative district

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Speaker 1: against an incumbent. Amazing timing, amazing, like you can just tell.

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Speaker 1: Walking into it, I had no idea what I was

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Speaker 1: getting myself into, and I guess in a way that

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Speaker 1: was That was kind of the beautiful part of it,

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Speaker 1: because if I had known, I never would have actually

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Speaker 1: done it. But so much of I think, especially in

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Speaker 1: particular at the house level, so much of the dynamics

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Speaker 1: are just how's the district drawn, is it an open seat? Incumbent?

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Speaker 1: Things that, what is the national mood? Overall? Things that

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Speaker 1: have literally zero to do with you or your campaign,

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Speaker 1: how hard you work, or what you want to bring

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Speaker 1: the issue set that you want to bring to the

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Speaker 1: American people. So your district at the time was our

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Speaker 1: plus This is a long time ago. Now I want

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Speaker 1: to say it was R plus twelve. Wow, So that

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Speaker 1: that's a very daunting I mean, this is a district

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Speaker 1: for you. Trump wins like sixty percent in this district,

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Speaker 1: so your race, in some ways is an emblem of

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Speaker 1: this crystal where the incumbent that you lost to is

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Speaker 1: still there eleven years later doing his thing, and any

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Speaker 1: Democrat who runs against him is doomed in that district

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Speaker 1: as it's currently drawn. You're phenomenally talented. I'm sure eleven

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Speaker 1: years ago you were awesome, but to your point, not

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Speaker 1: awesome eleven years ago. But I was doing my best.

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Speaker 1: I was very earnest, I was working hard, Yes, But

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Speaker 1: to your point, anyone could have run and they would

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Speaker 1: have lost under the Democratic ticket. That Republican member of

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Speaker 1: Congress only has one concern, and it's getting primaried. So

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Speaker 1: what you see is very powerful incentives that will drive

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Speaker 1: a Republican in that situation to want to placate the

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Speaker 1: ten to twenty percent most extreme voters and his or

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Speaker 1: her district, Which is one reason why you see so

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Speaker 1: little dissent from Trump, because if someone says, hey, Trump

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Speaker 1: doesn't speak for me, then all of a sudden you'll

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Speaker 1: be out of there. Because the most extreme twenty percent

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Speaker 1: of Republican voters in that district and around the country

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Speaker 1: are going to get rid of you like that. So

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Speaker 1: we have very very strong incentives to drive people toward

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Speaker 1: the extreme to some extent on both sides right now.

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Speaker 1: I believe it's a much bigger problem on the Republican

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Speaker 1: side and the Democratic side. There are also distortions though,

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Speaker 1: where you have special interests that are much more involved

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Speaker 1: in the process because they have a lot of at stake,

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Speaker 1: and so they're there in the most extreme seventeen to

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Speaker 1: twenty percent of Democratic primary voters. So the system right

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Speaker 1: now will not lead us to positive results. And so

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Speaker 1: coming to that conclusion myself, and one thing I pride

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Speaker 1: myself on is just being intellectually honest, is like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: if this is the conclusion I've drawn, then what's a

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Speaker 1: true answer. And the answer I found was we need

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Speaker 1: to change the closed party primary system to open primaries

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Speaker 1: and rank choice voting, to change the incentives so that

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Speaker 1: our legislators aren't trying to please the most extreme twenty percent,

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Speaker 1: but instead of trying to please fifty one percent, and

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Speaker 1: that would transform incentives overnight. All of that. So, in

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Speaker 1: terms of the solution of ranked choice voting and open

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Speaker 1: primaries or jungle primaries are sometimes called. I think that

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Speaker 1: that all logically makes a lot of sense because then

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Speaker 1: you also don't get in this situation of, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: during your primary, I'm sure there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: people who wanted to vote for you, who were excited

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Speaker 1: about what you had to offer, but weren't convinced that

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Speaker 1: you could win, and they didn't want to quote unquote

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Speaker 1: waste their vote. And so if you have a ranked

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Speaker 1: choice system, then people don't have to worry about that,

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Speaker 1: or same thing with Bernie or any other number of

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Speaker 1: candidates who people could have felt like, let me just

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Speaker 1: actually vote for the candidate I really like, and I'm

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Speaker 1: not wasting my vote. I'm not serving as a spoiler

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Speaker 1: or any of that. So all of that makes a

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Speaker 1: lot of sense to me. There's two questions I have

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Speaker 1: for you. Will probably more than two, but we'll start

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Speaker 1: with two questions for you on the approach specifically, which

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Speaker 1: is everything you've described is like not so much a

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Speaker 1: Democratic party problem or a Republican party problem, right, And

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Speaker 1: lord knows, I'm not a defender really of either of

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Speaker 1: those parties, but what you're describing isn't necessarily a specific

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Speaker 1: problem with either of those parties. It's a problem with

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Speaker 1: the system written. It's an incentives problem. It just it's

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Speaker 1: it's a systemic, systemic problem. So why start a third

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Speaker 1: party to address that? Why not, you know, get the

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Speaker 1: Democratic Party to push for it, or have an outside

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Speaker 1: organization that's that's pushing for a reform movement or getting

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Speaker 1: this question on the ballot in different states so that

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Speaker 1: they could pass their reforms that way. Why take the

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Speaker 1: approach of the third party? Again, this is not a

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Speaker 1: one party problem. This is a problem that systemic And

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Speaker 1: so if you were to try and do it within

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Speaker 1: the Democratic Party and you play that out, how would

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Speaker 1: that work in red states? And right now, if you

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Speaker 1: look at the states that have ballot initiatives that allow

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Speaker 1: one to get open primaries and rank choice voting on

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Speaker 1: the ballot, a lot of them are read. The one

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Speaker 1: state that has already done this is a deep red state, Alaska,

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Speaker 1: And I do want to illustrate how this works in

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Speaker 1: real life. Lisa Murkowski, the senator from Alaska, is the

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Speaker 1: only Republican senator who's upper reelection in twenty two that

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Speaker 1: voted to impeach Donald Trump. Her approval rating among Alaska

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Speaker 1: Republicans is now six percent. It's literally a political suicide

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Speaker 1: for someone to do what Senator Murkowski did. But Alaska

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Speaker 1: just changed their primaries to be open primaries and rank

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Speaker 1: choice voting last year. So now Senator Murkowski actually doesn't

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Speaker 1: go through a strictly Republican primary. She goes to everyone,

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Speaker 1: and so she has a fighting chance to be reelected.

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Speaker 1: Now does that incentive change have something to do with

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Speaker 1: her decision to impede Trump. I'm going to suggest, probably

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Speaker 1: suggest that probably the case. So if you're going to

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Speaker 1: try and make this happen in diverse states that are

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Speaker 1: both red and blue, you can't try and nestle it

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Speaker 1: within in one of the two parties, because then any

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Speaker 1: other state that you're operating in will say, oh, this

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Speaker 1: is like a demn thing or this is a Republican

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Speaker 1: thing as opposed to something that's that's that system wise.

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Speaker 1: I get that too. I get that too. But of

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Speaker 1: course you also know the history of third parties in

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Speaker 1: the country, which is, you know, as hard as it

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Speaker 1: is to get things changed through the existing parties, the

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Speaker 1: best modern day performance we've had for a third party

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Speaker 1: presidential can, of course is ross borrow. He didn't want

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Speaker 1: a single state. There are already existing third bar you

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Speaker 1: at the libertool, Chris, I want to cut you off

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Speaker 1: and say, like you're kind of shooting towards what a

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Speaker 1: lot of people have done, which is something that I

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Speaker 1: want to pull back from, which is people just pass

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Speaker 1: forward to the presidential I mean, like to me, I'm

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Speaker 1: not thinking about that at all. I'm thinking about what

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Speaker 1: we can do to try and make our legislator's incentives

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Speaker 1: better right now or right now in real terms, right

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Speaker 1: now means November twenty twenty two. And so if you're

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Speaker 1: trying to get that done, you could say, hey, let's

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Speaker 1: start an organization around this, which I think is a

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Speaker 1: great idea. Some organizations are doing that work, and I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to do my best to help them. But if

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Speaker 1: you're going to ignite a true popular movement around this,

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Speaker 1: you need to raise something of like a flag to

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Speaker 1: join you. And so that's why I believe that you

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Speaker 1: need this popular movement that, by the way, is inclusive

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Speaker 1: of registered Democrats. You do not need to change your

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Speaker 1: party registration to sign up with a Forward party. If

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Speaker 1: you're a Republican who's sick of it you can sign

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Speaker 1: up with a forward party and keep your Republican registration.

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Speaker 1: Because I'm a practical guy, changing your party registration would

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Speaker 1: disenfranchise you in eighty percent of these districts, Like why

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Speaker 1: would you do that? So where a popular movement that's

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Speaker 1: going to be inclusive. But I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: people that are most excited about this are people that

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Speaker 1: think that the party system is broken and if you rewind,

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Speaker 1: this duopoly we're in is a nightmare of the Founding

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Speaker 1: come to life that has lasted for one hundred and

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Speaker 1: thirty years. It makes zero sense on the face of it.

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Speaker 1: They were anti partisanship. They wanted shifting coalitions and factions.

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Speaker 1: The UK has five political parties, Sweden has eight political parties.

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Speaker 1: Netherlands has eighteen political parties. We're stuck with two. By

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Speaker 1: the way, if you were going to have a system

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Speaker 1: where you have two major parties, you know what could happen.

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Speaker 1: Hypothetically one of them succumbs to terrible leadership and then

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Speaker 1: our systems aren't prepared to actually try and check that

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Speaker 1: because guess what, the founders didn't imagine that there'd only

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Speaker 1: be two political parties. So there's so many problems with

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Speaker 1: the current system the way it's set up, and we're

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Speaker 1: just going to drive ourselves crazy until we get to

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Speaker 1: the bottom of those problems. Everything else is just going

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Speaker 1: to be like praying for things to change when when

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Speaker 1: you really dig into it, there is no reason to

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Speaker 1: expect it to change. It'll get worse. The polarization will

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Speaker 1: get worse, the dysfunction will get worse, and we're going

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Speaker 1: to be looking up being like, why aren't things changing?

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Speaker 1: This is the way we actually change it. So lant

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Speaker 1: for me what the plan is. What are you thinking

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Speaker 1: of in terms of the midterms. Will you be fielding candidates?

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Speaker 1: Will you be pushing for ballot access? Just talks me

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Speaker 1: through sort of like the plan of what this looks

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Speaker 1: like in the near term. I love it because this

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Speaker 1: is another misconception. Crystal Again, we're smart, we're practical. We

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Speaker 1: want to get great stuff done. The pillars of the

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Speaker 1: Forward Party start with open primaries and rank choice voting,

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Speaker 1: so someone needs to be for those things, but they

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Speaker 1: also include things I think a lot of your listeners

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Speaker 1: are huge supporters of, like universal basic income, a human

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Speaker 1: centered economy, fact based governance, modern and effective government, and

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Speaker 1: this is something that you really have to stand up for,

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Speaker 1: which is we talk in these arguments passing relief when

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Speaker 1: only seventeen percent of it gets to people is a

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Speaker 1: moral failure, Like someone should be held accountable for that.

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Speaker 1: But we actually aren't paying attention to whether the pipes work.

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Speaker 1: It's just oh, oh, I stood up, I did something,

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Speaker 1: and then we go home while people are left wondering

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Speaker 1: why the system's not working. And the last pillar is

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Speaker 1: grace intolerance, which is to me, one of the things

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Speaker 1: that's necessary to try and bring the country back together.

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Speaker 1: Like we're getting set up to attack each other, We're

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Speaker 1: getting set up to regard our fellow Americans as mortal enemies,

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Speaker 1: and it's a recipe for disaster. So if someone is

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Speaker 1: for these six pillars and they're running as a Democrat

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Speaker 1: in a primary or running as a Republican in a primary,

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Speaker 1: let's get behind them, you know, like you don't need

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Speaker 1: to run as forward party. We're going to be a

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Speaker 1: group that just supports people who are for these principles,

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Speaker 1: And simultaneously, we will be activating voters to pass these

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Speaker 1: ballot initiatives to try and implement open primaries and rank

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Speaker 1: choice voting in states around the country, gotcha. So this

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Speaker 1: sounds a little bit like the DSA model in that

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Speaker 1: veil back candidates who are running on the Democrat party line.

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Speaker 1: They also do field candidates who run, you know, outright

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Speaker 1: as DSA candidates, but they've focused electorally and had some

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Speaker 1: success that way, And backing candidates who are running as

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Speaker 1: Democrats but support their shared values. Is that kind of

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Speaker 1: like the realm of what you're thinking in yes, because

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Speaker 1: again we're smart and impact driven, and in a lot

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Speaker 1: of these locations it is impossible to run as anything

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Speaker 1: other than a Democrat and Republican. So we're going to

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Speaker 1: support people who are aligned, regardless of what letters next

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Speaker 1: to their name. So one other thing I wanted to

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Speaker 1: ask you about is you talk in the book quite

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Speaker 1: a lot about the extremes and the incentives within the

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Speaker 1: party within that both the parties to sort of move

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Speaker 1: to the far edges of those parties, and the way

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Speaker 1: that just as you said, you know, you're not really

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Speaker 1: worried about someone from the other party challenging you. You're

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Speaker 1: worried about your primary challenger if you're in one of

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Speaker 1: these many, many, many safe districts. How do you define

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Speaker 1: extreme though, because it struck me as I reading this,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people would have said that you running

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Speaker 1: on universal basic income, that that was extreme, or that

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Speaker 1: was radical, or that was a French idea. So when

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Speaker 1: you're talking about party extremism, some people would say, you know,

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Speaker 1: healthcare for everyone is extreme, even though we're the only

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Speaker 1: developed country that doesn't do that. Some people say raising

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Speaker 1: taxes on corporations is extreme, even though eighty percent of

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Speaker 1: Americans support that right. So when you're talking about extremism,

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Speaker 1: just what do you mean by that language. It's playing

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Speaker 1: out differently in the two parties, and I think on

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Speaker 1: the Republican side we can see what's going on where

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Speaker 1: you have people who are hardcore Trump supporters completely dominating

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Speaker 1: the party primaries and making it so that the Republican

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Speaker 1: Party really is just a vessel for Trump. And I

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Speaker 1: know there are many longtime Republicans who are looking up saying, huh, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, like this is not what I thought the

432
00:23:55,840 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 1: party was. But here we are. On the Democratic side,

433
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,160
Speaker 1: it's a bit different. And I referenced it a little

434
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,919
Speaker 1: bit earlier, is that there are people and I'm for

435
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 1: different policies as you saw in the book, I'm for

436
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 1: healthcare for all. I think it's common sense, we need it.

437
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 1: I'm obviously for universal basic income. But on the Democratic side,

438
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,160
Speaker 1: what you see is that there are special interests that

439
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 1: have outsized influence in the process, in part because it

440
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 1: is a closed party primary. So this could be teachers' unions,

441
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 1: it could be big pharma, it could be different groups

442
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:36,640
Speaker 1: that have very very high stake in what happens from leadership,

443
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 1: and there is some ideological shift to that happens on

444
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: that side. But I think the different influences the party

445
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 1: to struggle with are different. I'm going to suggest that regardless,

446
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 1: having to appeal to fifty one percent of voters would

447
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 1: be an improvement regardless of which party you're talking about.

448
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 1: One of the parts in the book that I thought

449
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:03,160
Speaker 1: was really interesting is you talk about how this isn't

450
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,440
Speaker 1: exactly your language, so I don't want to you know,

451
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:06,959
Speaker 1: I don't want to twist your words here, but you're

452
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,920
Speaker 1: sort of talking about how power changes people and how

453
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 1: power corrupts, which is, of course, you know, something that

454
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,159
Speaker 1: is an old adage. And the other thing that I

455
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 1: was thinking about as I was reading that is people

456
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,679
Speaker 1: who are in support of moving away from the Democratic

457
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 1: party and towards a third party, They oftentimes will say,

458
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 1: you may go in to change the Democratic Party, but

459
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party is ultimately going to change you. What

460
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 1: was your experience with that? I mean, you didn't end

461
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 1: up as the nominee, but you certainly had a lot

462
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: of a lot of people who really believed in you.

463
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:43,919
Speaker 1: These huge events, these huge rallies, hundreds of thousands of

464
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,400
Speaker 1: people donating, I mean, I don't know, maybe millions, lots

465
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:50,120
Speaker 1: of people donating to your campaign, millions of dollars flowing in.

466
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:54,919
Speaker 1: Did you find it hard to remain yourself? Did you

467
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 1: feel yourself influenced by that sort of new found fame

468
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:03,199
Speaker 1: and not a come of power. I do write a

469
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: chapter about this, but I think the biggest problem is

470
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: when someone shows up in DC, and even if you're

471
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: raring to go and you want to change things, you're

472
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 1: looking at the seniority system and people who've been there

473
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 1: for twenty twenty five thirty years, who are in power,

474
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: and so the natural approach you're going to end up

475
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 1: with is to bide your time and to be there

476
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 1: for a while and say, yeah, you know, it'll be

477
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: my time eventually. For me personally, I'm kind of an

478
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: odd duck, Crystal, I don't know. I mean, like running

479
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: for president was like an act of activism on my part.

480
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: I thought I could help educate us about what's going

481
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 1: on with our economy and accelerate the adoption of universal

482
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: basic income in the end of poverty in our time.

483
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,159
Speaker 1: And strangely enough, I never expected to get recognized on

484
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: the street. No, it's I mean, in a way, it

485
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 1: didn't make any sense. And I think part of it

486
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 1: has to do with being an Asian guy, where like

487
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: I joke in the book that, like, you know, Asian

488
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 1: guys feel like we have like an invisibility cloak where

489
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: if we just like you know, don't try to draw

490
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 1: attention to ourselves, that people will just totally ignore us.

491
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 1: And so even now, you know, I don't I mean,

492
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 1: I could make a joke now it's like I'm not

493
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: very problems that I don't run anything, which is pretty accurate.

494
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: But certainly, and you you might have had this experience lately,

495
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,919
Speaker 1: because I know, in some ways, you know, your popularity

496
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: has been growing very quickly. Getting recognized in public is

497
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 1: a trip like that, that's weird. But what's funny, Crystal,

498
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 1: is that even though it's happened to me over and

499
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 1: over again, like I still act like it's the first

500
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 1: time when it happens, when it's like, oh, like, what

501
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: do you want to picture? Sure? Like I do. Think

502
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: the problem is if someone winds up in DC and

503
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: is there for years, it will distort you over time,

504
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 1: even if you entered with the best of intentions. It's

505
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 1: one reason why I'm for eighteen year term limits in

506
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,239
Speaker 1: each House of Congress. We have to try and do

507
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 1: something about this gerontocracy. It is not good for the

508
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 1: country to have seventy five eighty eighty you know, geez,

509
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: like you know, octogenarians running things, especially if you believe

510
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,159
Speaker 1: as I do, that technology is one of the major

511
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 1: forces in American life that we have to try to

512
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: address the excesses of because our leaders don't understand technology natively,

513
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: especially if they got there thirty years ago. What has

514
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 1: been the response from the Democratic Party establishment. I mean,

515
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 1: you endorsed Joe Biden, you went and campaigned for him,

516
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: You went and campaigned very hard in Georgia, You ran

517
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: for mayor of New York as a Democrat. Something else

518
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 1: I want to get to and ask you more about.

519
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: So they've definitely assumed. You're fully in their camp, you

520
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: got their back, You're on their side. Have you gotten

521
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: much of a response from them, Have they been surprised,

522
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: have they been pointed? If they've been supportive? From some

523
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: of those folks who are in the sort of upper

524
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: echelons of the Democratic Party, I've gotten various text messagers,

525
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 1: messages from members of Congress. You know that they've been

526
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: inquisitive would be I suppose that the word I'd use.

527
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: But the people who are texting me know what motivates me,

528
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 1: know what's in my heart. You know, I'm just trying

529
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: to do the best I can. I think that there's

530
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: some curiosity around it, for sure, And you know, I

531
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 1: think also that people in the pressive and sensationalizing it

532
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 1: in a particular way. Hopefully even this conversation will make

533
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 1: people feel like, okay, like I see where he's going

534
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: and this makes sense. I mean, we need a popular

535
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: movement to address the structural incentive problems in our system,

536
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: or else we're going to just drive ourselves crazy. And

537
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: the craziness is going to result in political violence. It's

538
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: going to result in a recurrence of you know, some

539
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: unthinkable things that we've seen over the last number of months.

540
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: I want to be the leader of the anti polarization movement,

541
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: the Forward Party, and so I think a lot of

542
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 1: Democrats right now are kind of waiting and seeing how

543
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: it plays out. But I have gotten messages, some of them,

544
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 1: you know, are from friends, and they say that one

545
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: of them said like, look, I'm really sorry to see

546
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: you go, but that they believe that I'll be back

547
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: in some form in the sense not rejoining the Democratic

548
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 1: Party necessarily, but I'll see them because people that are

549
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: trying to make positive things happen just end up around

550
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: each other a lot. Would you ever run for president

551
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: again as a Democrat? Right now, I'm focused on getting

552
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 1: the Forward Party up and running to a point where

553
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: we're excited about candidates at twenty two and these ballot initiatives.

554
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: You know, I'm just going to try my best to

555
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: maximize my own impact and the time we have, Crystal, Like,

556
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: we don't have unlimited time. I mean, our democracy is disintegrating,

557
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: like we have to take it very very seriously and

558
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: try and bust ass as quickly as we can. I

559
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: don't have some deep native desire to hold a particular office.

560
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 1: I don't have some burning ambition like I'm going to

561
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 1: do whatever I think is best for the country. You know,

562
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: if there's a kneede I can fulfill, I'll certainly take

563
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 1: a look at it. But you know, I don't have

564
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: any designs passed trying to get some boald initiatives passed

565
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: in twenty two and hopefully getting some candidates across the

566
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: finish line. So one of the things you talked about

567
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 1: in your presidential campaign and also talk about in the

568
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: book is the sort of corruption of money in politics,

569
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: both when you're running for office and you're having to

570
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 1: solicit all these donagents. Then you get into office and

571
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: the first thing you got to do is dial for

572
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: dollars again and go meet with lobbyists and raise money

573
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 1: from lobbyists, and that whole cycle, not to mention, and

574
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 1: we see this, I would say with kirston Cinema right now,

575
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: you know, pushing back against the Reconciliation bill at the

576
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 1: same time that you raising money from the very corporate

577
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: interests that would benefit from that bill being killed. At

578
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 1: the same time you're looking towards Okay, when I get

579
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: out of Congress, then I'm going to get a cushy

580
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 1: gig in the private sector for X and Y and

581
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 1: Z company. So let me make sure I'm happy with

582
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 1: them they're happy with me while I'm here in the

583
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: people's House. So you talk about that rot in, that

584
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: corruption and how corrosive it is too, and how it

585
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: messes up the incentives of people who may be genuinely

586
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: good people who want to serve and end up not

587
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: doing what they set out to do once they get

588
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 1: to Washington. How will you protect the Forward Party to

589
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: make sure that it's not subject to that same sort

590
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: of corrosive impact of money in politics. You know, I

591
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: got asked this the other day, Crystal, and my immediate

592
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 1: response was, who on earth would donate to the Forward Party?

593
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 1: Because we don't run anything, you know what I mean, Like,

594
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 1: if you're a big corporate it's like, let me get

595
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: behind the Forward Party because they're really going to lower

596
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: my taxes. You know. The only people who would donate

597
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: Forward are people that want to see our democracy actually

598
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: live up to that name. That they want a system

599
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: that will have our legislator's answer to the majority of

600
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: us instead of the most ideological minority. Now, if we're

601
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: running the show, then I would love to have another

602
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: conversation with you about how we're going to make sure

603
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 1: the Forward Party doesn't get overrun by corporate donors, because

604
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: we're looking at, you know, innovative ways to do that.

605
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 1: But right now, I mean, it really is sort of

606
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: funny in the sense that, like, no one rational would

607
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 1: donate to the Forward Party for self serving reasons because

608
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 1: it just wouldn't make any sense. I think you saw

609
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: yourself a little short there though, because you know, you're

610
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: a very influential person and you have a big following,

611
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: so it's not crazy to me to imagine that there

612
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: would be people or interests who would love to have

613
00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 1: access to that. I mean, for some of these people

614
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: look to throw you one hundred thousand dollars or whatever.

615
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 1: It's nothing to them. Why not place a bet on

616
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 1: this thing, even if it is a long shot chance. Well,

617
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 1: if they do that and it pays off, then you know,

618
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,439
Speaker 1: we would be happy to publicly disclose all the people

619
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 1: that have donated to us, and then we can have

620
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: a conversation as to what the future holds. But I

621
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: would have to say it would take a real visionary

622
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 1: and with a very long time horizon to do it.

623
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: For bad reasons. Maybe you're maybe I am selling myself short, Crystal.

624
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:35,399
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm cool enough where people will just throw money

625
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: at it to hang out with me. Everybody, everybody's cool

626
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: enough to be subject to these influence I mean, as

627
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 1: you point out, a lot of this isn't about Sometimes

628
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 1: in the commentary it can get very much caught up

629
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 1: on individual personalities and like this person is sold own,

630
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: that person is corrupt, and people have agency and they

631
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,439
Speaker 1: deserve blame for those things. But we're all human, and

632
00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 1: like we're all subject to these sort of corrosive influences.

633
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 1: I see it in my own work. You know. One

634
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 1: of the things that we tried to do with our

635
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: business model is protect ourselves from being too driven by

636
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: the YouTube algorithm or by what's going to be monetized

637
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 1: or not by YouTube, Because look, I know, I'm a

638
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: human being. I know when I was at MSNBC and

639
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: they told me, hey, next time you say something mean

640
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 1: about Hillary Clinton, you got to run it bias. I

641
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 1: know that impacted the way that I covered her. So

642
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 1: I just I have a lot of humility, and I

643
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 1: know you do too, about how we're all subject to

644
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,359
Speaker 1: these influences even when we have the best of intentions.

645
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 1: I'm with you for sure, and I think that's the

646
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 1: big lesson about our current system, Crystal. It's one reason

647
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: why again we're all pulling our hair out wondering why

648
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 1: it's not getting any better. The system is fundamentally corruptive.

649
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 1: And then what we're doing is we're pretending that certain

650
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 1: people are good and not cropped, and though, oh, those

651
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 1: people are corrupt, and then someone's like, oh, that person's

652
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 1: a hypocrite. The system is dirty. The system is making

653
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: it so that reasonable person can enter and then try

654
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 1: their best out, try their heart out, but they'll be

655
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 1: there grinding and dialing for dollars gives to them is

656
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: going to represent some corporate interest, you know. Like that's

657
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 1: the way our system is designed. And the best thing

658
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 1: we can do right now is to try and clean

659
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: up our system so that it actually is more responsive

660
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 1: to popular will. And this is the best way to

661
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: do so that. So I'm with you one hundred percent.

662
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 1: I think it was a quote from Ezra Klein in

663
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: his book that I quote in my book that corruptive

664
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:31,359
Speaker 1: systems overcome good individuals with ease, and that's what we're

665
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 1: seeing over and over again and we're wondering why it's

666
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,839
Speaker 1: now working. So I wanted to ask you a little

667
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 1: bit more about some of the planks because I think

668
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 1: they're really interesting. And you mentioned how grace and tolerance

669
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: is one of the ones that you find to be

670
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: sort of most critical and most vital. That's something that

671
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 1: really resonates with me, because I do think we we

672
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 1: have a situation right now where people feel very impotent.

673
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,800
Speaker 1: They feel like they did the thing they were supposed

674
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 1: to do, they voted for the right candidates, or they

675
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 1: got out there and organized, or they gave their ten

676
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:09,800
Speaker 1: bucks or whatever, and they're still not able to see

677
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 1: that change, in that progress that they've been wanting to

678
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 1: now for years and years. And so I think a

679
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: lot of people, not a lot of people, but some

680
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 1: people turn that sense of impotence in the way that

681
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 1: they can find power is by well, let me judge

682
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 1: this person, let me shame this person, let me call

683
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:30,320
Speaker 1: this person out, Let me be full of condemnation, rather

684
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: than hey, how do we build solidarity? How do we

685
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: build a cohesive movement that can actually effectuate change. So

686
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 1: talk to me a little bit about when I see

687
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: grace intolerance, that's what I think about. But talk to

688
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 1: me about what you think about when you put those

689
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: two words into your party platform. Well, one thing I

690
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 1: think about are my family members who voted for Trump,

691
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 1: and I still love them and hold them dear even

692
00:37:55,960 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 1: though they voted for Trump. To your point, there's so

693
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 1: much pain and suffering and rage, and it's manifesting in

694
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 1: different ways in different quarters. It's legitimate, it's real. One

695
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 1: of the things I want to do is try and

696
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 1: channel all of that energy into something that's productive and

697
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 1: solutions oriented. That's what the Forward Party hopes to do.

698
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 1: But the grace intolerance I was thinking about really is

699
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 1: just to try to embrace our shared humanity and our

700
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: fallibility and that and our difference. One of the points

701
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 1: I make in the book is that a lot of

702
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 1: people's politics are born of circumstances they did not have

703
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 1: any control over, and so then despising them for that

704
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 1: is not well, it's not helpful, but it's also not

705
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 1: acknowledging their humanity in the same way. I mean, I

706
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: grew up with people who were I grew up with

707
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: a lot of Italian Americans in Upstate New York, and

708
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 1: you know, I got picked on a fair amount as

709
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:07,719
Speaker 1: one of the lone Asian kids in my school. And no,

710
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 1: like looking at those people now, I mean I haven't

711
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: seen them all and whatnot. I mean like we were

712
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: probably in very different places politically, but you know, like

713
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 1: you still shared so much time and experiences with them,

714
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 1: and it's something that's gotten lost now, the ideological barriers,

715
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: particularly in a two party system where it becomes good

716
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 1: versus EVA on both sides, then we're never going to

717
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: get anywhere, and we're going to end up ginning up

718
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 1: the engines of personal destruction. We're just going to keep

719
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: on having this rise and fall of just about everyone

720
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 1: who raises their hand and tries to do something positive.

721
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 1: And then the people that are going to end up

722
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 1: writing various Waves are going to be not the people

723
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: you want. So that way, like if they're just waves

724
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: of negative emotion, then the people that will harness those

725
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:10,319
Speaker 1: waves are going to be not super productive individuals. So

726
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 1: it's hopefully an antidote to that, hopefully saying look, I

727
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:17,919
Speaker 1: disagree with you on a lot of things, but you're

728
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 1: still a human being. You know, Like I screw up,

729
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 1: I'm still a human being. I try and put in

730
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:27,359
Speaker 1: the book Various episodes of my screwing up as a

731
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 1: parent or a partner or friend or boss or candidate

732
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 1: or whatever it is, and I know, like it's you

733
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: get up and do the best you can the next day.

734
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:42,439
Speaker 1: I think that if we can forgive ourselves and each other,

735
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: then we'll have a much better chance at getting some

736
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: positive change done than if we're really really intent on

737
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 1: trying to pick people apart and find the worst in

738
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 1: each other. Yeah, I mean one hundred percent agree with that.

739
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: Do you see that as mostly like an ethos, a

740
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 1: sort of moral value, or do you think that there

741
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,879
Speaker 1: are actual policy choices that we could make that would

742
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:08,239
Speaker 1: help to create that culture. The biggest policy choice we

743
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 1: could make is open primaris and right choice voting, because

744
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, you'd have really diverse points

745
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: of view and no one could bully you for wasting

746
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 1: your vote, and you know, like people could show up

747
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: and you'd have a much higher level of dynamism, and

748
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: the incentives would be towards a higher degree of reasonableness,

749
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,399
Speaker 1: because if you put a reasonable legislator in there and say, hey,

750
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: cater to the twenty percent most extreme and polarized voters

751
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: in your district, guess what, they're going to sound more unreasonable.

752
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 1: So when you talk about something that will actually make

753
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 1: us more reasonable, you have to set up incentives that

754
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:42,800
Speaker 1: reward reasonableness. That's what I hope the Forward Party becomes,

755
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: where like the reward for reasonableness, like the wet blanket

756
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: that will bring the temperature down Andrew Yang America's wet blanket.

757
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: You know, it's like something along those lines, like we've

758
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 1: got to kind of get people focused on things that

759
00:41:57,680 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 1: are actually going to help us right now. And as

760
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 1: Cline says this, it says that right now we're we're

761
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 1: just beating cycles of political rage that are leading to madness.

762
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 1: Why do you think it is that you write about

763
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 1: how when you're running for president, in particular, you'd meet

764
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,280
Speaker 1: someone maybe there were a trucker and obviously you spoke

765
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 1: a lot to that was a big thing truckers for Yang,

766
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 1: and you did ride alongs and you talked a lot

767
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 1: about the future of the trucking industry. Maybe you meet

768
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 1: a trucker and immediately when you say I'm a Democrat,

769
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 1: it's like switch flips. They're not interested. You know, Suddenly

770
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 1: you've gone from being an interesting fellow human to some

771
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 1: other thing. Where do you think that comes from? How

772
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 1: did that happen? I think that comes from the fact

773
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 1: that we have these polarized media columns. When I say column,

774
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 1: I mean you know, you have Fox on the right

775
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 1: and an MSNBC on the left, and then CNN somewhere

776
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: in the leftish middle. I suppose, if here to characterize it.

777
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 1: And so that Tucker has probably listened to a lot

778
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:06,359
Speaker 1: of talk radio because he's a trucker, so he has

779
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 1: something of a caricature of the Democratic Party in his head,

780
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 1: and the most extreme statements of the Democratic Party have

781
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 1: probably been piped into his truck by a contemptuous talk

782
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 1: radio host for a long time. And so then when

783
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 1: Andrew Yang shows up at his truck stop and says, hey,

784
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 1: I'm running for president as a Democrat, they're like Democrat.

785
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 1: But unfortunately I got that not just at the truck stop,

786
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 1: but in the in the store, in the diner on

787
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 1: the street. And this again is one of the problems.

788
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:41,359
Speaker 1: I mean, we're rewarding our media outlets for ginning us

789
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 1: up on both sides. Uh, And that's where all of

790
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 1: the money lies, really, you know again, I mean, we'll

791
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 1: see you and Zyger are doing a great job of this,

792
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:57,320
Speaker 1: But like, I'm hoping that there's an audience in rationality

793
00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 1: and reasonableness and solutions. You know, I'm sure i'd make

794
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 1: a lousy uh trucking talk radio host. I mean maybe

795
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 1: maybe they'd be into it. Mayban I said, I should,

796
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 1: I should. Yeah, no, I should. I shouldn't sell myself

797
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 1: short again. But but the media incentives end up driving

798
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 1: us toward these extremes, Crystal, and I think that's why

799
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 1: people react so negatively to each other on both sides.

800
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:22,760
Speaker 1: Could you talk a little bit more about the media,

801
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 1: because you also have some great anecdotes in the book

802
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:27,840
Speaker 1: about I'd love if you if you tell people the

803
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,800
Speaker 1: Wingeding episode. And I'll just set it up for folks

804
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:34,240
Speaker 1: a little bit. So you go to Iowa, you get invited,

805
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: it's early in the campaign. You're going to this big

806
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 1: Democratic Party function called the wing Ding. It's you John Delaney,

807
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 1: Tim Ryan, and Michael Avenatti and uh, I'll let you

808
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 1: take it from there. But I think this episode sort

809
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: of sums up what political coverage and political quote unquote

810
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 1: journalism actually is. Yeah, So I feel a lot of

811
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 1: pressure because this is like my first big political speech

812
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 1: and like a thousand e wins there and I'm like,

813
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I have to knock this out of

814
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:07,240
Speaker 1: the park. So John Delaney speaks, Tim Ryan speaks, I speak,

815
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:11,360
Speaker 1: and then Michael Lavinatti speaks, and I thought he was awful,

816
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 1: like he was just reading and he went over long

817
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 1: and was boring, and I was like, this is terrible.

818
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 1: And then he comes off of the stage and he's

819
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 1: surrounded by a dozen political reporters and cameras who are

820
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 1: peppering him with various questions. Journalists. I did not even

821
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 1: know we're in the room, and they just followed Michael

822
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 1: Lavanatti around for a number of minutes and then wrote

823
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 1: up articles about how Michael Aabnatti excites the Iowinds and

824
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 1: a bunch of other things. And I was there and

825
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 1: I was like, what the heck just happened? You know,

826
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 1: like I thought he was terrible, And the write ups

827
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 1: did not mention me or John or Tim for the

828
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,759
Speaker 1: most part, and so there was a sense it's like, wow,

829
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: the story had already been written, like they showed off,

830
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 1: but they were just gonna be like, Gavanatti excites the Ilands, right,

831
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 1: and that shows themselves. Whether they responded or not was

832
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:09,240
Speaker 1: sort of irrelevant. Yes, And what I think that happened

833
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 1: was that they would find, you know, an Iowan or

834
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 1: two who would give a positive quote. And by the way,

835
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 1: you could have gotten positive quotes about any of us

836
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:21,359
Speaker 1: from Iowans because Ilands are very nice, very nice. They

837
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 1: could have been after the excites Ioways. Where was that story?

838
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 1: But this is like the first major brush and it's

839
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 1: so drawing because obviously Avinati was a total flim flam

840
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 1: and the fact that he was getting elevated that way

841
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 1: next to two candidates who already declared, and me and

842
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 1: John and then Tim was certainly going to declare, but

843
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:48,799
Speaker 1: the media was not there for any of us. So

844
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 1: what do you think is the sort of what's the

845
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 1: solution there? Because this is when I struggle with I mean,

846
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:56,959
Speaker 1: obviously I'm trying to offer my own solution just through

847
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 1: my show, which I have to say is a little

848
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 1: self serving, But it does give me hope that we

849
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 1: have an audience that is truly ideologically diverse, that Sager

850
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 1: and I certainly have different views on things, that people

851
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 1: stick with us. Our audience sticks with us even when

852
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:15,840
Speaker 1: we say things that they may disagree with at times

853
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:18,839
Speaker 1: like that does make me hopeful that there's an appetite

854
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 1: for something different. But if the media is such an

855
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 1: issue in driving so much sectarianism, which is really what

856
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,919
Speaker 1: it is, what is the solution for that? Because they're

857
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 1: not going to change, you know, they profit off a crisis,

858
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 1: They profit off of political violence. They never had higher

859
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:39,919
Speaker 1: ratings than they did on January sixth. It was great

860
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 1: for business. Trump was great for business. So how do

861
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 1: you get out of that cycle? Well, I have some

862
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:49,439
Speaker 1: ideas in my book, but I'm also a huge fan

863
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:51,879
Speaker 1: of breaking points in You and Sager, and I think

864
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 1: that you are truly the answer. Not to put pressure

865
00:47:56,160 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 1: on you, but when I say you, I mean truly

866
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 1: independent viewpoints that are free of corporate media, that develop

867
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:07,760
Speaker 1: followings because people begin to trust you. I have a theory,

868
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 1: Crystal that in the new world, people won't trust institutions

869
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: so much as they'll trust people. People trust you, people

870
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:16,359
Speaker 1: trust Sager. I hope some of them trust me. And

871
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: so the goal is then to build a constellation of

872
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: trusted voices who can be voices of reason and moderation

873
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 1: and reasonableness. Even if you have like you said, I mean,

874
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 1: you can have very dramatic policy wishes, like giving everyone money.

875
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 1: I mean, you know that used to be seem very extreme.

876
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:39,839
Speaker 1: But but that you try and traffic in reality, and

877
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:45,400
Speaker 1: you know, let you you don't make up your own facts,

878
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 1: and you try and treat other people in a certain way,

879
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 1: and people grow to trust your viewpoint. Now the question is,

880
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,760
Speaker 1: can you and Sager and some of these other independent

881
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 1: voices become true rivals to the media networks. I believe

882
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 1: you can, truly, and I'd like to be a part

883
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:04,959
Speaker 1: of that. I have some ideas on the cable news front.

884
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 1: I suggest in the book that we should bring back

885
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 1: the fairness doctrine, which existed until the Reagan years. That

886
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 1: just said, if you present one side of a point

887
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 1: of view, then you should present the other two, not

888
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 1: fifty to fifty, but just like have some moderation. And

889
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 1: the FCC used to have authority over that, and then

890
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: they got rid of that, and then lo and behold,

891
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 1: Fox at MSNBC came up very shortly thereafter. You know

892
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 1: that's actually, of course, during the Reagan years is when

893
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:33,839
Speaker 1: we totally took the breaks off, and Clinton continued it

894
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 1: to by the way, and went to this model of

895
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:42,359
Speaker 1: wildly unfettered capitalism, where you know, the only value that

896
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,360
Speaker 1: we're really leaning into is the value of money, the

897
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 1: value of profit margins. What you call for in the

898
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 1: Forward party is what you call human centered capitalism. Talk

899
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:55,799
Speaker 1: to me about what you mean by that, because in

900
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:59,919
Speaker 1: some ways I almost feel like those two words human

901
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 1: centered and capitalism are at odds with each other. If

902
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:08,280
Speaker 1: you're looking at capitalism just as making money profit margin,

903
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:10,879
Speaker 1: because you certainly see that in our healthcare system. Since

904
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,360
Speaker 1: we've put the profit margins at the center of everything,

905
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:15,839
Speaker 1: it means we don't get good healthcare. We don't even

906
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 1: have that as a value within the system. So talk

907
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:22,440
Speaker 1: to me about what you mean by that phrase. What

908
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 1: I mean is an economy where we're actually measuring ourselves

909
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 1: as the unit of progress, like our quality of life,

910
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 1: our physical health, our mental health, our education rates, are

911
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 1: clean air and clean water. We should be reporting on

912
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 1: those numbers much more diligently than stock market prices or

913
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:43,799
Speaker 1: GDP growth or headline unemployment. And if you looked at

914
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 1: those numbers, you would see that we're at twenty eighth

915
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:50,439
Speaker 1: in the world in public education, clean air, and clean water,

916
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 1: infant mortality, all these basics, and we shouldn't accept that. No,

917
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 1: Like if you have our level of wealth and resources

918
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:02,800
Speaker 1: and kids are dying on necessarily and we're failing so

919
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:06,480
Speaker 1: many in our education system, it should be reported on

920
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 1: all the time. And you know, if you saw it,

921
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:13,359
Speaker 1: you'd see that mental illnesses are spiking, Like what good

922
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:17,840
Speaker 1: is high GDP if your kids are anxious and depressed

923
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 1: all the time, which, by the way, is a byproduct

924
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 1: and part of social media and the rest of it.

925
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:25,279
Speaker 1: So that's what I mean by human centered capitalism is

926
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: that we are the point of the economy, not the fuel.

927
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: And so if you measure human progress, then you'd see

928
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 1: that we've been failing and falling down for a long time.

929
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:39,799
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you a little bit about the

930
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:43,399
Speaker 1: mayoral race. There were plenty of autopsies of you know,

931
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 1: why you started on ahead and didn't end up pulling

932
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 1: through in the end. I gave my own thoughts on

933
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 1: the matter. What was your sort of assessment of what

934
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 1: went wrong there and why you weren't able to ultimately prevail? No, Chris, So,

935
00:51:58,320 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I've done a fair amount of reflecting on it,

936
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:05,759
Speaker 1: and No, it seemed like I wasn't the right candidate

937
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:10,840
Speaker 1: for this place this time. I mean, I'm proud of

938
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:13,239
Speaker 1: the campaign we ran on some levels. We got over

939
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,359
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifteen thousand first place votes, a lot

940
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:17,439
Speaker 1: more second and third place votes. Thank you New York,

941
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:21,280
Speaker 1: more individual donors than any other campaign in the history

942
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 1: of the city. And the most important thing is when

943
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 1: I just walk around the streets of New York today, yesterday, tomorrow,

944
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 1: people just are happy to see me, you know, like

945
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:34,360
Speaker 1: it's a good feeling. So, you know, we felt we

946
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:38,319
Speaker 1: came up short, you know, like we weren't the right

947
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:41,440
Speaker 1: candidate for this moment. But I'm really grateful for all

948
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 1: of the support I got in the experiences I had.

949
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:47,080
Speaker 1: Anything you would do different or you just feel like

950
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:50,239
Speaker 1: you weren't the fit for the moment, well, I'm sure

951
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 1: you know. Obviously, if you come up short, then like

952
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 1: you want to do some things differently, maybe you've got

953
00:52:56,040 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 1: a different result. The other thing I wanted to ask

954
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 1: you about that, which you do talk a little bit

955
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:07,359
Speaker 1: about in the book in the afterword, is in New

956
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 1: York City they do have ranked choice voting. How do

957
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 1: you think that that played into the outcome and what

958
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 1: sort of lessons can we extrapolate from that to how

959
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:20,799
Speaker 1: it might apply at you know, the state and the

960
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 1: federal level. I'm a huge ranked choice voting proponent. I'm

961
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 1: actually going to be trying to help promulgate it all

962
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 1: over the place obviously. I mean, it's like one of

963
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:33,279
Speaker 1: the core tenets of the Forward Party, and I thought

964
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,120
Speaker 1: ranked choice voting in this mayoral primary was a plus.

965
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 1: I got to a campaign with Catherine Garcia. Ninety five

966
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,280
Speaker 1: percent of New Yorkers found it easy to use, seventy

967
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 1: seven percent want to do it again. And if you

968
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 1: get four out of five New Yorkers to agree on something,

969
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:51,439
Speaker 1: it's pretty damn good in my mind. So ranked choice

970
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 1: voting should be here to stay. There is a distinction, though,

971
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 1: between ranked choice voting in a primary, which is what

972
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:59,360
Speaker 1: we had in New York, and an open primary with

973
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 1: rank choice voevoting, because you did shut out a lot

974
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 1: of independence and Republicans. I had a lot of people

975
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:05,799
Speaker 1: come up to me on the street and say, hey,

976
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 1: I want to vote for you, I'm an Independent, how

977
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:12,920
Speaker 1: do I do it? And then if they were a

978
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:15,360
Speaker 1: registered voter already, they were too late. They needed to

979
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 1: change their registration by February fifteenth, which was more than

980
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 1: four months before the election. So if you'd had a

981
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 1: truly open primary and rank choice voting, I think that

982
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:24,960
Speaker 1: would have been better. But ranked choice voting was still

983
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:30,400
Speaker 1: a plus because it should have rewarded folks who were

984
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 1: willing to come together and solve problems more collectively. And

985
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 1: I was excited to try and give Catherine a boost

986
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:41,960
Speaker 1: down the stretch. You know, she was obviously my second

987
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:47,240
Speaker 1: choice from mayor after myself. Yeah, and she almost almost

988
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 1: made it. That would have been a great test of

989
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 1: all Like that was yeah, that was happening. I was like,

990
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:57,759
Speaker 1: that was yeah. I was while to watch that all unfold.

991
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 1: You know, Andrew, are you optimistic? Because I have to say,

992
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 1: as someone who covers the news every day and you know,

993
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 1: watches some of the same failures that you chronicle in

994
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:18,239
Speaker 1: your book, the same incentives, the same disappointments. Right now,

995
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 1: as we're recording this, you know, the fate of the

996
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:24,800
Speaker 1: entire Bien agenda looks like it very well crumble, even

997
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:27,800
Speaker 1: though pieces of it have eighty and ninety percent support.

998
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:31,760
Speaker 1: The one that I think particularly rankles is this idea

999
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 1: of negotiating prescription drug prices for Medicare, which is literally supportive.

1000
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:38,359
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, public, how are you doing that? Yeah, it's correct,

1001
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:40,479
Speaker 1: How are you not doing it? Democrats have been running

1002
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:44,839
Speaker 1: on this for over a decade and still may not

1003
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:48,800
Speaker 1: ultimately happen. So do you look at that set of facts,

1004
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 1: not to mention all the tensions that you also chronicle

1005
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 1: and the way that we're sort of intentionally being pulled

1006
00:55:54,960 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 1: apart for profit by nefarious actors and nefarious institutions. Are

1007
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:03,080
Speaker 1: you able to look at that and still feel hopeful

1008
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:12,160
Speaker 1: and optimistic? It's awful what's happening. And I do not

1009
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 1: feel great about the state of our country, our democracy, Crystal.

1010
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:19,920
Speaker 1: I think you know I'd be lying if I was like, oh, yeah,

1011
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:23,399
Speaker 1: I feeling great about things. You know, there's a real

1012
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:29,759
Speaker 1: chance of political violence upcoming in twenty four in my

1013
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:34,359
Speaker 1: opinion twenty two. Potentially it's one reason why I'm doing

1014
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 1: what I'm doing is that if you are honest and

1015
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:43,319
Speaker 1: you see what's going on right now where Democrats theoretically

1016
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:46,279
Speaker 1: have control the government and aren't able to deliver on

1017
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:48,360
Speaker 1: various things, and we all know that their hold on

1018
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:54,800
Speaker 1: power might vanish pretty quickly, leave us at a point

1019
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 1: that in some ways, you know, you could argue as

1020
00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:02,800
Speaker 1: square one or maybe worse, what is the true answer?

1021
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:07,200
Speaker 1: And so that this is Cordy your question, because so like, hey, Andrew,

1022
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:13,200
Speaker 1: are you optimistic? I see myself as deeply, deeply practical,

1023
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 1: and I like to think clear eyed. If you're clear eyed,

1024
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 1: you cannot look at the system and say out, yeah,

1025
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:22,800
Speaker 1: this is working, like this is not working for Democrats, independents, Republicans.

1026
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 1: It's driving us all mad. And so in the face

1027
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 1: of that madness, what is a real answer? What is

1028
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 1: a real solution? And I believe that the real solution

1029
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:37,680
Speaker 1: is changing the duopoly. The duopoly does not make any

1030
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 1: sense on its face. There's nothing about two parties in

1031
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:44,840
Speaker 1: the Constitution. It's holding us back in so many ways.

1032
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 1: Fifty seven percent of Americans want a third party. Sixty

1033
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:51,920
Speaker 1: percent thing both sides are out of touch. So if

1034
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 1: a majority of Americans are at that point, why can

1035
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 1: we not change it? And it's because we've been told

1036
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 1: we cannot change it Like that that's really the answer

1037
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:04,960
Speaker 1: to it. So then you have to say, Okay, hey,

1038
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 1: I veenough, let's get together. Can we change it? Well,

1039
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 1: let's do that. Let's start the forward party inclusive of

1040
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 1: everyone of every alignment. Don't need to change your party registration,

1041
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 1: and let's change the incentives that will have real hope.

1042
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 1: This is my best shot at something I can feel

1043
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:24,919
Speaker 1: great about because at least win or lose, I will

1044
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:28,760
Speaker 1: have proposed and championed the thing that would actually do

1045
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 1: the trick, you know, like that that is my responsibility.

1046
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 1: My responsibility is just to be honest with anyone who

1047
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 1: I'm you know, been fortunate enough to get your support,

1048
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 1: or anyone who's listening to this who's not a young

1049
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 1: person but is like, what the hell is going on

1050
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 1: and what can we do about it. It's one reason

1051
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:49,600
Speaker 1: why I feel so strongly about this book that after

1052
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:51,720
Speaker 1: I wrote my last book, The One of Normal People,

1053
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:54,800
Speaker 1: I thought to myself, this could be my greatest contribution

1054
00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:57,040
Speaker 1: ever and I would die happy, Like, you know, if

1055
00:58:57,080 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 1: I managed to advance the understanding of the automation of

1056
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:02,880
Speaker 1: our economy and universal basic income, and that is my legacy.

1057
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:05,520
Speaker 1: You can put that on my epitaph, and that is

1058
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 1: a okay with me. And at the end of my

1059
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:12,240
Speaker 1: presidential campaign, I had, you know, these emotions because I

1060
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 1: was like, oh, like I fought my ass off and

1061
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 1: heart out, and I think I might have made a

1062
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:18,800
Speaker 1: big difference, Like you know, who can say that, Like

1063
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:21,080
Speaker 1: that's a great feeling. But then I also felt this

1064
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:23,520
Speaker 1: responsibility being like oh shit, like the problems are still

1065
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:25,720
Speaker 1: getting worse, and like I'm still here and my kids

1066
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 1: are still here, and like I got to try and

1067
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:32,640
Speaker 1: make a go of it. I now think that fullward

1068
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 1: and this diagnosis of our problems in our democracy just

1069
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 1: to let you all know that you're not crazy. What's

1070
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 1: crazy is to look at our system and think it

1071
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:44,920
Speaker 1: should be working, like it's set up not to work.

1072
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 1: And so if I can help people see what the

1073
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 1: real solutions could be, then this could be my most

1074
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:58,360
Speaker 1: important work or contribution ever. And so that that's where

1075
00:59:58,400 --> 00:59:59,760
Speaker 1: I am now, Crystal, Like this is a very long

1076
00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:01,560
Speaker 1: way way of answering. It's like, hey, how do I

1077
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:08,560
Speaker 1: feel about the future. I feel pretty damn bad, but

1078
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:12,280
Speaker 1: but you know, but I feel like, Okay, here's a

1079
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 1: real answer that if we were to get our legislators

1080
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:17,960
Speaker 1: to a point where they have to answer to fifty

1081
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:21,200
Speaker 1: one percent of us, dilute all the special interest, dilute

1082
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:23,920
Speaker 1: the extremity, make it so that things that have eighty

1083
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:27,160
Speaker 1: ninety percent approval actually pass, then we'd have a shot

1084
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:29,840
Speaker 1: at it. But it's only possible if we free ourselves

1085
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:32,479
Speaker 1: of the duopoly. The duopoly is not going to pass

1086
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 1: anything that's going to solve our deepest problems. Well, you

1087
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 1: asked me what I thought of the book. I really

1088
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:41,080
Speaker 1: enjoyed reading it. You know. One of the things that

1089
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 1: I've always appreciated about you, Andrew, even when we've disagreed

1090
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:47,560
Speaker 1: on various issues or tactics or whatever it is, is

1091
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 1: I always, you know, I feel like you're coming at

1092
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:53,640
Speaker 1: it very honestly, and that we can have these conversations

1093
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 1: and I'll ask you a question and you'll actually give

1094
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:57,600
Speaker 1: me an answer, which can be a right t bestris

1095
01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:00,440
Speaker 1: I'll try my best this down as well. So I

1096
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:04,240
Speaker 1: really enjoyed the book. I thought it had that characteristic

1097
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:09,080
Speaker 1: honesty self reflection. You mentioned that you, you know, you

1098
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:11,640
Speaker 1: kind of think about areas where I could have done

1099
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:14,600
Speaker 1: this different or maybe I should have endorsed a different

1100
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:17,640
Speaker 1: way here, and am I balancing these competing priorities in

1101
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:21,760
Speaker 1: the right way? And that's I really enjoyed that. I

1102
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:24,680
Speaker 1: enjoyed the clear headed focus on kind of like here

1103
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:28,240
Speaker 1: are the big problems facing the country, and these little

1104
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:32,160
Speaker 1: processed skirmishes in the theater in Washington is really not

1105
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:35,160
Speaker 1: where it's at. So I enjoyed the book. I totally

1106
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:37,720
Speaker 1: recommend the book. I think people who get who want

1107
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:41,400
Speaker 1: to understand what it actually is like to go through

1108
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:45,560
Speaker 1: the meat grinder of a presidential campaign and all the

1109
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 1: ways that you know, I don't want to use the

1110
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:50,320
Speaker 1: words rigged, but all of the ways that this thing

1111
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:53,440
Speaker 1: is structured in a certain way to generate certain outcomes.

1112
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:58,440
Speaker 1: It's very revealing in that way. So congrats Andrew, Thank you, Crystal,

1113
01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:02,960
Speaker 1: and I gotta say I think that running for Congress

1114
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:06,640
Speaker 1: in the way you did is such phenomenal perspective. I

1115
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:09,400
Speaker 1: wish that every journalist who covers politics had to run

1116
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 1: for office, because you know, you just understand it differently.

1117
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:16,760
Speaker 1: And it's one reason I think why people love you

1118
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:18,520
Speaker 1: so much and you can do what you do is

1119
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:21,640
Speaker 1: that you know, you have your beliefs and convictions, but

1120
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:24,120
Speaker 1: you also have a sense as to what the meat

1121
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:26,880
Speaker 1: grinder is. I tried to convey it in a way

1122
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:30,800
Speaker 1: that was interesting to people, but I think that you know,

1123
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:32,680
Speaker 1: I mean literally, there's a chapter in Running for Congress

1124
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:35,040
Speaker 1: where you're like, oh yeah, I remember that. Oh yeah,

1125
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:37,560
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's a different level that you can

1126
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:41,840
Speaker 1: kind of relate to some of those dynamics. So congrats again, Andrew.

1127
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:45,080
Speaker 1: Where do you want people to get the book? If

1128
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:47,800
Speaker 1: you go to Andrew Yang dot com, there's a pre

1129
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:51,720
Speaker 1: order link there. There's also a book tour. I'm heading

1130
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 1: to ten cities around the country. If you want to

1131
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:58,160
Speaker 1: have a fun night or afternoon, you get a book,

1132
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:00,800
Speaker 1: I'll sign it and then we're going to have an

1133
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:03,320
Speaker 1: hour long or so conversation about the future of the country.

1134
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 1: So would love to see you out on the trail.

1135
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:07,800
Speaker 1: But Andrew Yang dot com is the place to go.

1136
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:10,400
Speaker 1: That's awesome. And what are the what are the first

1137
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:12,560
Speaker 1: steps for the Forward Party look like? And where can

1138
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:14,720
Speaker 1: people find out more about that? At Andrew Yang dot

1139
01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:18,080
Speaker 1: com as well. Yeah, it's Forward Party dot com, but

1140
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:21,280
Speaker 1: Andrew Yang dot com obviously has the links. Would love

1141
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:24,280
Speaker 1: for you to sign up. We're going to get to

1142
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 1: work on campaigns as quickly as possible. So if this

1143
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:29,920
Speaker 1: sounds like something you want to be a part of.

1144
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:33,080
Speaker 1: People have been waiting for a third party forever and

1145
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:35,720
Speaker 1: then right now with the Forward Party, they're looking at

1146
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 1: it being like, hey, can this really fly? If enough

1147
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:41,640
Speaker 1: of us get together, we can make it fly very

1148
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:45,040
Speaker 1: very high. So go to ford party dot com. Sign up,

1149
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:49,080
Speaker 1: you know, like buy a T shirt, like do whatever

1150
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:51,080
Speaker 1: you want to do to support. But let's fix it.

1151
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:55,560
Speaker 1: Let's give ourselves a real chance. You very successfully, and

1152
01:03:55,600 --> 01:03:57,520
Speaker 1: I know it wasn't just you, as the yanggang and

1153
01:03:57,600 --> 01:04:00,640
Speaker 1: the pandemic and all sorts of good in that put

1154
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:04,480
Speaker 1: UBI on the map direct cash assistance. So if you

1155
01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:07,560
Speaker 1: can make rank choice voting and open primaries, if you

1156
01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:09,919
Speaker 1: can put that on the map as well, that would

1157
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:14,080
Speaker 1: be doing an incredible service to absolutely everyone in this country.

1158
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:17,360
Speaker 1: Thank you you, Crystal. That's exactly the way I see it.

1159
01:04:17,600 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 1: UBI was the what. Open primaries and ranked choice voting

1160
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:23,280
Speaker 1: is the how. This is the second leg of the journey,

1161
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:25,560
Speaker 1: and let's do it. Thank you so much. Christma, there

1162
01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:27,760
Speaker 1: you go. Great to see Andrew. Hey, guys, thanks so

1163
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:29,920
Speaker 1: much for watching. That's right. Just as a reminder, you

1164
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:32,520
Speaker 1: can become a premium subscriber today. Watch the full show,

1165
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:35,640
Speaker 1: completely uncut, our reactions to each other's monologues. You get

1166
01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:37,400
Speaker 1: to listen to it, You get to ask us questions

1167
01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:39,600
Speaker 1: all that good stuff. Link is right there in the

1168
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:42,600
Speaker 1: description or at breakingpoints dot com. Best of all, great

1169
01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:44,600
Speaker 1: way to say screw you to the mainstream media.