WEBVTT - Frankenstein Review, Hedda, Christy, Peter Hujar’s Day 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:03.240 Film Spotting is presented by Regal Unlimited, the all you 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:05.920 can watch movie subscription pass that pays for itself in 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:08.360 just two visits. Sign up now in the Regal app 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:10.440 or at the link in the show description and use 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:14.120 code film spot twenty five. That's film Spot twenty five 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:21.279 to receive your discount. What kind of a show you 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:22.520 guys putting on here today? 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:23.680 You're not interested in art? 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:24.079 Now? 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:25.520 No, Look, we're going to do this thing. 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:26.200 We're going to have a. 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:32.720 Conversation from Chicago. This is film Spotting. I'm Adam Kempenard. 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:33.479 And I'm Josh Larson. 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:43.360 My maker told his tale. 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:52.360 I'll turn you nine. Guermo del Toros. Frankenstein comes to 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:56.240 Netflix this weekend. It stars Oscar Isaac as the mad 0:00:56.280 --> 0:01:00.720 doctor and Jacob Elordi as the creature they told their tales. 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:01.880 Now we have our. 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:06.200 Review, plus Nia Dacosta's Ibsen update, heada, Sidney Sweeney in 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:08.640 the boxing biopic Christi, and more. 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:11.880 It's all ahead on film Spotting now. 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:13.720 Run. 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:22.800 Welcome to film Spotting, Josh. I've learned that Mary Shelley 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:25.080 was living in Bath in the South of England when 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:27.760 she wrote Frankenstein. That's only a day's drive from your 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:31.800 current haunt in Saint Andrews, Scotland. I am sure this 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:35.800 informed your viewing of the new Guermo del Toro adaptation. 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:38.880 That's just the start of it, Adam. I have to 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:41.959 give you a little Scotland report here. I had forgotten 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:45.800 how much of Frankenstein is actually sat in Scotland until 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:49.000 just rereading the book a couple of months ago. Here's 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:52.720 how I viewed Frankenstein. Get this so, Dundee, a town 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:56.600 just a little further from me and in Scotland. Found 0:01:56.600 --> 0:02:00.320 out just last week that is where Mary Shelley would 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:04.120 go to visit family when she was younger, and that 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:08.280 site on the River Tay actually inspired some of the 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:12.400 atmosphere in the landscape and the setting for Frankenstein. Guess 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:16.480 where Debbie and I along with listener Ben Page. Ben's 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:18.639 a filmmaker and puppeteer, I met here in St Andrews. 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:22.320 The three of us went to see Frankenstein Dundee. I'm 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:26.359 not kidding you, so yeah, I had the local infusion 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:28.960 in my blood while watching this movie. 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:32.000 Do you think Mary Shelley also saw movies at that theater? 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:35.720 I don't think it was around Okay, well, you were 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:39.919 walking in her footsteps. So that essence, that aura should 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:44.160 definitely contribute to our conversation about del Toros Frankenstein, which 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:47.239 is coming up in just a moment. Also Heda another 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:51.840 nineteenth century literary adaptation. Nia Dacosta's latest is an update 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:55.360 of Henrik Ibsen's eighteen ninety one play Headed Gabbler. 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:56.480 Now I didn't see it. 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:58.320 You're going to talk about that one, But of course 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:01.760 I've seen productions of a House. I'm pretty sure Peter 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:05.280 Gint even The Master Builder when I was a student 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:07.639 in London. Have I seen Head of Gabbler? 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:08.200 No? 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:13.440 Oh, so close, you are so close, so close? 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:18.760 Plus Christy starring Sydney Sweeney as boxer Christy Martin and 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:22.880 Peter Hujar's Day from director Iras Sachs, a two hander 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:26.800 with Ben Wishaw and Rebecca Hall. That'll be a one hander, 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:30.560 as I'm the only one who saw that film. A 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:34.200 quick reminder Film Spotting is now available as a video podcast. 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:37.720 If you're a Spotify listener, you can toggle between video 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:40.960 and audio. You can also watch the show on YouTube. 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:45.600 I believe, Josh, we are supposed to say like, share, subscribe, 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:47.480 I don't know if that actually works or not, but 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:48.280 I said. 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:50.880 It, I mean we can, we can try it. I 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:54.360 don't know either or if it just annoys people and 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:56.560 away from doing that because they hear it so often. 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:58.120 Let's give it a try to see what happens. See 0:03:58.120 --> 0:03:59.960 if we can get a few more likes in some comments. 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:00.840 Yeah, there you go. 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:03.640 You can find the video episodes as well at film 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:06.280 spotting dot Net on the main page, or for past 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:09.960 episodes go to film spotting dot Net slash episodes. 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:12.240 But first, franken Stock. 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:25.640 In the spirit of Baron Victor Frankenstein confessing his twisted 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:29.039 tale to Captain Anderson. All profess that I struggled to 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:32.640 engineer an approach for this setup, something related to the 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:37.039 source material only one small issue. Inexplicably, I made it 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:40.880 through high school and college without an instructor ever assigning 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:46.480 Mary Shelley's eighteen eighteen Gothic novel Frankenstein or the modern Prometheus. 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:49.719 Nor did I ever assign it to myself. Okay, not 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:53.000 a big book guy. Apparently, maybe I could connect it 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:56.200 to some of the previous movie adaptations I thought, until 0:04:56.240 --> 0:05:00.240 I visited the Frankenstein in popular culture and listen of 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:05.880 films featuring Frankenstein's monster pages on Wikipedia and several hours 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:09.440 of scrolling. Later decided I was way out of my depth. 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:15.080 My recollections of mel Brooks Young Frankenstein, the underwhelming Kenneth 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:20.799 Branna's Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, and Tim Burton's Frankenweeny probably weren't 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:23.520 going to cut it. Surely I could fall back on 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:26.520 the tried and true o tourist angle. After all, what 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:30.760 filmmaker has a more fervent relationship with monsters than Guillermo 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:36.080 Del Toro. Here again, I'm lacking some substance. Sure all 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:38.920 seven of his features released during the film spotting era, 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:42.080 from two thousand and six's Pans Labyrinth to his most 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:46.000 recent twenty twenty two's Pinocchio, were reviewed on the show, 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:48.919 and I was positive on all six that I considered. 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:54.000 But fantasy has never been my specialty, and four outstanding 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:59.080 Del Toro titles remain Cronos, Nmic Blade two and Crimson 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:03.280 Peak Before or I can call myself a completist. Even 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:06.120 I wouldn't have to strain, though, to find the symmetry 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:11.400 between Pinocchio and Frankenstein, or more accurately Geppetto and doctor 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:15.720 Frankenstein and their respective creations. After the loss of his son, 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:20.640 aggrieving wood Carver fashions a new boy who comes to life. 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:24.359 I'm going back to Wikipedia here. Geppetto wakes up and 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:28.440 is frightened by Pinocchio. He becomes fed up with Pinocchio's 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:32.080 antics due to his newborn lack of self control. I 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:36.560 don't know, sound familiar, Josh. It wouldn't have challenged the 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:40.880 brilliant intellect of doctor Frankenstein, played with mono maniacal brio 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:43.960 by Oscar Isaac. But think of all the money Christoph 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:48.279 Waltz's Henrik Harlander, the arms merchant who backs Frankenstein's grand experiment, 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:51.240 could have saved had he simply gotten his hands on 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:56.360 a wood sprite to conjure Jacob Elordi's creature to life. 0:06:56.520 --> 0:07:00.840 Then I realized you're the one who put Dizzyis Pinocchio 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:04.080 on your top ten Greatest Films of All Time list, 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:08.200 both the twenty twelve and twenty twenty two editions, which 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:12.520 led me to this lowercase e epiphany. Not only do 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:15.640 you love Pinocchio, it turns out that you've spent some 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:19.960 time considering del Toro's work and what his depiction of 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:24.360 monsters expresses about the human condition. And you've devoted even 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:27.560 more time to thinking about the creature and how he 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:32.360 functions as a monstrous mirror, reflecting an image of ourselves. 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:35.640 Quote doing not what we know we should do, but 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:39.400 what we know we should not end quote. Of course, 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:42.840 I'm quoting from your book where you were referring specifically 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:46.640 to James Wales's nineteen thirty one Frankenstein and other universal 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:51.320 horror films of the era. So, mister, fear not enlighten 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:56.960 me watching this Frankenstein? Did you learn anything new about 0:07:56.960 --> 0:08:01.240 our capacity for sin? Or just bite what I understand 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:04.960 to be some fairly significant departures from both Wales's pre 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:09.320 code version and Shelley's text. Did del Toro's rendering offer 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:13.120 plenty of arresting visual flare but little revelation? 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:17.920 Well, I always love a book plug in a setup, atom, 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:21.760 So thank you first of all for that. And yeah, 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:24.840 you're quoting me, and I'm quoting the Apostle Paul and 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:26.760 Romans there. So I don't want to take too much 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:31.400 credit about we do what we wish we did not do. 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:34.000 I did have that in the back of my mind 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:38.800 surprisingly while I was watching Frankenstein and how it might 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:43.240 echo in this instance when it comes to the Shelley 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:47.080 novel and the movie versions, our capacity to play God. Right, 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:52.280 it's right there in her subtitle essentially, and traditionally. I 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:55.400 found Del Toro's version interesting on this front because it 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:57.320 does take to my mind a little bit of a 0:08:57.360 --> 0:09:02.719 twist on this that I'm curious to get your opinion on. Traditionally, 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:07.040 it is that doctor Frankenstein has chosen to play God, 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:12.000 specifically by attempting to create life, right, So we're looking 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:15.960 at the very beginning Genesis here, trying to usurp that 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:20.680 power of actual life creation, and of course in every 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:26.760 version it goes disastrously wrong. Overall, I think this Frankenstein 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:30.000 del Toros Frankenstein on this front. It's not necessarily the 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:32.720 most interesting thing about the movie. I'll get to that later, 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:35.839 but on this front, I think this Frankenstein is less 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:39.560 about the creation of life that urge than it is 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:44.240 the prevention of death. And that's maybe a subtle nuance, 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:47.240 but I think a very compelling one for where we 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:52.200 are in this day and age. Think about the early 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:56.920 demonstration scene where Victor before his medical colleagues. At this point, right, 0:09:56.960 --> 0:09:59.719 he hasn't really completely gone off the deep end, but 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:02.880 he's giving a demonstration to them trying to animate. This 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:04.360 is one of the best scenes in the movie. I 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:08.120 think these body parts, it's not even a full figure yet, 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:10.480 that he's kind of stitched together and animate that in 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:13.080 front of them. During this I think this is where 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:17.920 he says it. He boldly suggests that quote God is inept, 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:22.200 and the reasoning there is because he's allowed something like 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:24.600 death in his creation. So he sees that as a 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:28.800 flaw that he has the hubris to fix. We also 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:31.560 have a new figure compared to what we get in 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:34.640 the book. You mentioned him, Christoph Waltz as Harlan Durr. 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:38.840 This is the rich patron who is supporting Victor's experiments. 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:41.840 We learn he's doing this and I don't think this 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:44.320 counts as a real spoiler, but he's essentially doing this 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:48.520 because he's dying and he wants get out style Jordan 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:51.920 Peele's get out. He wants to have his intelligence placed 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:56.840 in the creature, the monster's bodies. So this was really 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:59.559 interesting to me. It was different from the book, again 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:02.840 but timely because think about all the discussion of things 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:06.280 like artificial intelligence and and the like. We're kind of 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:10.760 in this new era of transhumanism. We have these billionaires 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:15.079 who think that they can push science into eternity for 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:19.000 specifically themselves, not necessarily the rest of us, and so 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:23.359 we do. We're living with these modern day Harlander figures, 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:25.920 and so yeah, the capacity for us in here to 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:28.040 me is not trying to create life, trying to cheat 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:31.400 death rather than accept it as this condition for our 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:35.960 fallen humanity. I think Frankenstein del Toro's playing with that here, 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:39.600 which is, you know, for a property that's been made 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:43.679 countless times, to find even that little nuance to investigate 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:45.839 and include. I think it's to the movie's credit. 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:51.160 So you were a great co host there and film 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:54.680 critic in that you responded very thoroughly to my actual 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:57.439 setup question. But now I just really need to know 0:11:57.480 --> 0:11:59.160 whether or not you like the movie, Josh, could you 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:00.000 do me that favorite? 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:04.000 Yeah? Sorry, that is one of the many things I 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:07.959 liked about the movie, Beyond those things you hinted at, 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:10.880 the style, the production design, the filmmaking. Okay, we'll get 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:13.360 to that. And as I said, there's another thematic thing 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:18.120 that I found incredibly compelling, So yeah, thrown it back 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:20.600 to you. You know, what'd you make on this capacity 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:24.240 for sin question and the creation of life question? But overall, 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:28.920 I mean, here's the question, given your setup, did this 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:33.400 leap the fantasy hurdle for you? You know that you've kind 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:35.959 of said, is something like it? Maybe it takes something 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:38.120 a little extra for you to really embrace a movie 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:40.480 of this nature. Was Franksin able to do it? 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:45.520 I'm out of my depth again on the question I 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:47.760 posed to you, which is why I posed it to you. 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:49.920 I don't have a great answer on the capacity for 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:52.520 sin question, and I do think you covered it well. 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:56.480 You're right about the prevention of death element, and I 0:12:56.640 --> 0:12:59.080 can't compare that really to other versions that I don't 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:02.520 remember very well or haven't seen, or the Shelley text. 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:05.800 Though I do feel like I remember feeling. 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:07.600 This as I watched it, and it has been now, 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:12.800 I think three weeks unfortunately, so I have my notes, 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:15.120 but I feel like the movie has started to dissipate 0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:18.160 in my memory. I feel like the movie loses that 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:20.000 psychological bearing. 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:20.360 For the character. 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:22.960 And I think you could argue against what I just 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:25.200 said and say that that's part of the point is 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:29.719 that as that character loses his way a bit, we 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:32.840 lose that underpinning, which has to do with his mother 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:39.480 and how he really is pushed into this field and 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:44.760 wanting to play god because of not guilt, but really 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:48.840 because of a loss that he wants to never feel again. 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:51.480 I really do like what you said about Harland, or 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:53.840 real quick before I get into more detail, because there 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:55.840 was a little touch. I don't know if you caught 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:57.960 it or if I'm reading too much into it, but 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:03.440 he has an absolutely despicable father, and there is at 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:06.880 least one scene where del Toro seems to really dwell 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:09.680 on his father during one of their lessons, and I 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:12.199 think there's maybe even two instances of it, and his 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:17.400 father is handing him a glass of milk, and later 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:22.040 that's that's mirrored by Harlander in two scenes. And the 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:26.120 thing is Harlander at this point seems to be completely 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:31.640 on his side, a genuinely sympathetic benefactor. We don't know 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:36.320 what you said about him until until later in the film. 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:39.280 And while that's true, we also know that there has 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:41.720 to be a catch, and he alludes to that early 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:45.560 on when their deal is struck and the serving of 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:48.840 the Milk to me was a little bit of foreshadowing that, 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:53.920 like his father, this this relationship, this partnership, might be 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:56.200 part of his undoing at some point. 0:14:56.240 --> 0:14:58.440 So I liked I like I like that touch. 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:00.440 In terms of the fantasy question, that ACTU is a 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:02.640 nice transition into what I wanted to say about the film. 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:05.360 I am not as high on it as you, though 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:08.520 I was very high on it at the beginning, and 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:11.000 as I've now said a few times, I had no 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:14.280 real bearing and I didn't know what to expect from 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:17.200 the beginning of the movie. I remembered so little of 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:18.760 the brand now that I was a little shocked to 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:22.680 read on Wikipedia some of the plot details and that 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:26.720 it apparently did have some of that North Pole Danish 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:32.120 expedition in it and Frankenstein, doctor Frankenstein narrating his wild 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:35.640 tale to Captain and Anderson. It had some of that conceit, 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:39.760 though not to the extent that this movie does. And 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:43.360 watching it, I thought either del Toro made that up 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:47.600 or he was being more faithful to the text than 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:51.200 most adaptations have been, And it turns out the latter 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:52.960 is mostly true, at least when it comes to that 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:56.360 framing device and I can say that because I took 0:15:56.520 --> 0:16:00.000 nine of my film criticism students to see this movie 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:03.880 at the Chicago Film Festival at the Music Box, and 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:07.240 the student who apparently drew the short straw and had 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:11.280 to ride home in my vehicle sitting in the passenger seat, 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:15.240 had read the book very recently, so had a lot 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:16.920 of thoughts on the movie and had a lot of 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:19.600 thoughts in relation to the book, and so was sharing 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:21.320 those thoughts. But I also got to bounce a few 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:23.360 questions off them, so I got I got a little 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:25.400 bit of a taste of that. But Josh, at the 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:28.960 very beginning I was I was hooked in part again 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:33.320 because of the unexpected for me expanse of the story 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:36.320 and the expanse I think this is two shows in 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:38.360 a row. Now we've used the phrase mees on sen. 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:45.240 I think we've upped our cinophile quotient tier our pretentious quotient. 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:49.920 But that giant ship trapped in the ice del Toro, 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:57.120 clearly establishing Captain Anderson's hubris that foreshadows Frankenstein's pushing his 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:01.280 men past their breaking points labor to release the ship 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:06.280 in service of his vision, his mission. The imagery of 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:10.679 the creature in the distance on the horizon. There's a 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:16.399 shot that is at dusk where you get the blue, yellow, orange, 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:22.000 black hues and just this tiny figure of the creature 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:25.960 on that horizon, and then that shot of the creature. 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:28.760 I'm thinking of the shot when it's just covered in 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:31.919 ice and the ship is now in the distance and 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:34.480 the creatures in the foreground and there's just enough of 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:37.040 an angle. I think about the great advice that David 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:40.720 Lynch's John Ford gives the young Spielberg in the fable 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:43.359 mids about how you have to have the horizon somewhere 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:45.600 other than in the middle right, and it's just enough 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:49.400 of an angle that it gives that frame a real 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:54.119 dynamism and the color. In the week since I screened 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:57.000 this at the Chicago Film Festival, I did see a 0:17:57.040 --> 0:18:00.119 social media video where del Toro goes into detail on 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:02.760 how he color coded. As you would expect, he color 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:04.800 coded all the sections of the film and all the 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:07.439 characters of the film. Of course, that provided depth that 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:09.720 I didn't catch on the first viewing, but the broad 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:13.920 strokes of those color choices were clear and so striking 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:17.119 on that first viewing. From how green is used and 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:20.159 matched to Frankenstein at certain points in places read to 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:23.520 me a Goths character as the mother and blue to 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:28.840 her Elizabeth, and in the Arctic those icy white blue 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:32.520 and gold hues. I found it so enveloping and immersive. 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:34.480 And I'll go to the red just for a second. Josh, 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:37.600 there's another shot that is stuck with me so clearly 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:41.159 from the film, when his mother dies, and even just 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:44.480 the production design of the casket, the way the white 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:48.679 almost ivory looking. It looks like a robe folded in 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:53.639 on her and you only see the outline almost of 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:58.080 her face and the red around her, almost like it's 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:01.880 a frozen pool of blood. And there are men standing 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:05.639 around her, four of them, and with their feet and 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:09.280 the black robes. It it is almost as if it 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:14.280 from a composition standpoint, it makes it looks like a swirl. 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:19.280 It looks kaleidoscopic, and it also draws your eyes downward 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:21.680 in the frame. It's an overhead shot. But it also 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:26.919 almost like the Kubrick technique that I'm forgetting the name of, 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:29.879 when it when it draws your your eye, you know, 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:32.639 to the end of the frame, except it's doing it 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:35.119 in a vertical way instead of instead of in a 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:38.920 in a in a in a way across the the shot. 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:43.320 It's filled with with frames like that, and exactly like 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:46.640 the captain before Frankenstein, I sat there before the screen, 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:49.439 just waiting to receive del Toro's story. 0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:53.520 Yeah, I mean, the gorgeousness on display here is ridiculous. 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:55.920 And what I think about in terms of that coffin 0:19:56.480 --> 0:19:58.960 is what you describe, but also the fact that it's 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:04.880 there of like this this stone essentially, and there's an 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:09.240 opening for her face laying in there, the corpse's face 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:14.399 that is then covered by a stone mask, which I 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:16.680 don't know if that's you know, drawing on a tradition 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:19.760 that exists, or if it's an invention of the production 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:22.119 designers and prop designers here, but it's one of the 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:26.960 things I'll remember most about this Frankenstein. And yeah, we 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:31.080 could probably go on and on about the costuming and 0:20:31.119 --> 0:20:35.919 the production design, and especially Mia Goth's character being you know, 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:40.880 interested in insects, particularly butterflies, and every dress she wears 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:44.640 mimics the unfurling of a butterfly's wings in some way, 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:47.600 or even a little head piece she has that curves 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:53.760 around her face. It's just incredible on that artistic esthetic level. 0:20:54.240 --> 0:21:00.199 Now I'm sensing that you're saying all that but to 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:05.000 set up an enormous butt and maybe maybe we'll just 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:07.959 go there and rather than me jump in with something 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:10.440 different that that I really liked about the movie. 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:14.920 Okay, Well, one point perspective, by the way, is the 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:17.960 Kubrick shot that I was I was thinking of, and 0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:22.600 this mimics that, but but in a way that's a 0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:26.240 high angle shot. In the back of my mind at 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:29.959 this point, there was this little asterisk and I and 0:21:30.200 --> 0:21:33.080 I tucked it away, hoping it wouldn't be a concern, 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:36.119 but I couldn't completely overlook it. And the question was, 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:40.440 and again, not being familiar with the source material, how 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:45.120 are we going to get to the Arctic? What series 0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:53.080 of circumstances will justify this journey emotionally, psychologically but also 0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:58.280 physically maneuvering these characters from from Europe to the edge 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:01.439 of the world in the midi eighteen hundreds. I was 0:22:01.480 --> 0:22:04.320 in and I stayed in for a good portion of 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:07.199 the movie. But I think I can pinpoint the exact 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:11.080 moment where del Toro lost me, and I mean the 0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:14.600 narrative lost me. But I do think we may need 0:22:14.640 --> 0:22:19.800 to get into spoilers to really to really make my point, 0:22:19.880 --> 0:22:22.399 so I don't necessarily want to go there yet, but 0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:24.919 there there was suffice it to say there was a 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:28.960 point where del Toro's narrative lost me, and it felt like, 0:22:29.119 --> 0:22:31.160 I guess the way I could sum it up, Josh 0:22:31.359 --> 0:22:34.679 is it. It felt like even though, of course the 0:22:34.760 --> 0:22:38.000 movie is not made or I doubt the movie was 0:22:38.040 --> 0:22:41.159 made in it was not shot in the order in 0:22:41.200 --> 0:22:44.960 which the narrative unfolds, so it's not as if they 0:22:45.000 --> 0:22:47.159 put all their effort into the beginning of the film, 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:51.159 though of course it was put together. However it was 0:22:51.200 --> 0:22:53.840 put together even that was probably not put together in 0:22:54.280 --> 0:22:56.639 the order in which the narrative unfolds. It was probably 0:22:56.680 --> 0:23:00.560 put together in pieces. It felt to me like so 0:23:00.800 --> 0:23:06.800 much care and effort and time was devoted to that 0:23:06.920 --> 0:23:11.320 opening sequence which I loved, to the flashback to the 0:23:11.359 --> 0:23:15.600 past which I loved, the one we're referring to with 0:23:15.760 --> 0:23:18.959 mi A Goth as the mother, the backstory of that character, 0:23:19.200 --> 0:23:24.400 to those scenes with Oscar Isaac as the younger doctor 0:23:25.160 --> 0:23:28.959 with all of his brashness and he's trying to upend 0:23:28.960 --> 0:23:32.359 the scientific community, and and even the part where he is. 0:23:32.680 --> 0:23:39.680 He's really trying to create this creature, and the back 0:23:39.800 --> 0:23:44.199 end felt so rushed to me that it undid a 0:23:44.320 --> 0:23:47.920 lot of what I thought the front end was setting up. 0:23:48.440 --> 0:23:52.320 Okay, let's return to that when you can talk about 0:23:52.320 --> 0:23:55.800 it a little more in detail. And yeah, I think 0:23:55.840 --> 0:23:57.960 I know where you're going, and I think I might 0:23:58.040 --> 0:24:00.959 partially agree, and maybe we if her on, you know, 0:24:01.080 --> 0:24:06.400 the fatality of that, maybe instance of disappointment in terms 0:24:06.400 --> 0:24:08.920 of the narrative. Here's the thing that I love most 0:24:08.960 --> 0:24:12.359 about this movie, and it's actually connected, even though I 0:24:12.440 --> 0:24:14.040 saw it about a week and a half ago now 0:24:14.640 --> 0:24:18.119