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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney

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Speaker 2: Armstrong and now our body move in is out for

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Speaker 2: the evening, but we have producer Taha House jumping in

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Speaker 2: a hot seat with us tonight. Oooo. And of course

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Speaker 2: we have Sam and Adam in the control room. But

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Speaker 2: already the giggles are kicking in. I am filled with

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Speaker 2: nervous energy. I can't quite explain why. And nobody to

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Speaker 2: save us. Yeah, and there's nobody to save us. So

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Speaker 2: here we go, guys, because it's Thursday night and we

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Speaker 2: have a sack night of headlines. It is February nineteenth.

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Speaker 2: Where is the time going? Everybody, and listen. We're seeing

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Speaker 2: some real action happening throughout the world right now. The

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Speaker 2: Epstein Files, they're having an effect, and it's an important one.

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Speaker 2: Prince Andrew officially has been arrested and released, so there's

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Speaker 2: much to discuss on that front, and just in general

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Speaker 2: sort of some of the some of the people that

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Speaker 2: we're seeing some accountability for and with, And man, I'm

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Speaker 2: just so proud of the victims who have really held

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Speaker 2: in there for decades. This must be such a big

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Speaker 2: day for all of them. And then also, you know,

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Speaker 2: we were talked about this a little bit, and I

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Speaker 2: know we will do a deeper dive tomorrow. The Alexander brothers,

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Speaker 2: their trial has been kind of wild. It's not happening

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Speaker 2: again until tomorrow, but we have a little bit of

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Speaker 2: catch up to do on that front as well. And

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Speaker 2: then also all things, this Epstein file saga will continue,

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Speaker 2: and we still haven't found Nancy gutth Th yet. What

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Speaker 2: are we going to do about this? I mean, I

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Speaker 2: don't know.

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Speaker 3: We've got the FBI, we've got the marshalls, we've got

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Speaker 3: the sheriffs, we've got officers, we've got citizens, and I

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Speaker 3: just know everyone's trying their best.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems close to impossible to imagine that there

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Speaker 2: hasn't been anybody really brought in yet. And again the

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Speaker 2: notes keep coming. Again. We saw Harvey Levin as well

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Speaker 2: saying that if in fact the ransom notes that were

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Speaker 2: received from TMZ are to be believed that they're very

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Speaker 2: serious and some of the things that are being described

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Speaker 2: and they are very scary, And of course now we're

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Speaker 2: hearing about Mexico. But again, no real developments despite all

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Speaker 2: hands on deck.

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Speaker 4: That's right, yeah, yeah, Unfortunately, there's not been a lot

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Speaker 4: of new news that has come out today, so we

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Speaker 4: don't have any major updates. But we're going to keep

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Speaker 4: on top of that one because that's such a major

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Speaker 4: story that we definitely have to But maybe can we

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Speaker 4: start off with a talk back, let's do that get

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Speaker 4: us going, Oh.

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Speaker 1: My god, have you heard that the pervert formerly known

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Speaker 1: as Prince Andrew has been arrested in connection to Epstein allegations?

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Speaker 4: Finally an arrest.

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Speaker 2: This is Jason in South Carolina. Have a good night, Jason.

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Speaker 3: You sound just like my mom when she called me

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Speaker 3: with the news, that level of enthusiasm and on his birthday,

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Speaker 3: no less.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's exactly right. You know, this is a huge

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Speaker 2: development for your mom, for Betty, for my mom. Same.

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Speaker 2: It was such a big topic today because again this

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Speaker 2: hasn't happened in four hundred years.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely so if you're just catching up today, Andrew mount

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Speaker 3: Bountin Andrew Mount Baton Windsor, again formerly known as Prince,

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Speaker 3: he was arrested and this was on suspicion of misconduct

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Speaker 3: in public office. He spent about eleven hours in custody

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Speaker 3: at a local police station. He then was released under investigation.

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Speaker 3: And this arrest is a direct result of the previously

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Speaker 3: sealed US Justice Department documents that detailed Prince Andrew's correspondence

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Speaker 3: with convicted sex vendor Epstein. And all throughout Prince Andrew

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Speaker 3: has denied wrongdoing, which we'll get into later, but these allegations,

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Speaker 3: this is an important point. The allegation specifically focused on

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Speaker 3: claims that the former Prince Andrew shared confidential reports from

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Speaker 3: a Southeast Asia trade tour with Epstein while serving as

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Speaker 3: Britain's trade envoy, which he did for about ten years

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Speaker 3: back in the two thousands. So this is separate from

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Speaker 3: the trafficking claims by victim Virginia Guffrey, who died by suicide,

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Speaker 3: but her family did praise the police.

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Speaker 5: No one is above the law, Stephanie.

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Speaker 2: No one is above the law, is you know? So

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Speaker 2: beautifully said and also echoed by you know, the King

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Speaker 2: of England. And again this is the monarch, This is

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Speaker 2: something that I know, Betty and Courtney, we grew up

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Speaker 2: in houses that really not necessarily revered the royals, but

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Speaker 2: we discussed the Royals a lot, you know it just

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Speaker 2: the weddings and all the pump and stands, and there's

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Speaker 2: just like respects there. Even with the many scandals along

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Speaker 2: the way, there's been this reverence for you know, for

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Speaker 2: this family for so so long, for Prince Andrew to

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Speaker 2: be associated with Epstein, and for Prince Andrew to be

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Speaker 2: associated with the pedophile, and certainly after the fact, because

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Speaker 2: he can't deny that he had any contact, which he did.

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Speaker 2: He denied that he had contact with Jeffrey Epstein after

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Speaker 2: he was a known pedophile, and that's just untrue. We

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Speaker 2: know that to be unfounded and a lie. And I

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Speaker 2: guess we all need to look back at Prince Andrew

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Speaker 2: as well. He has so vehemently denied this. He denied

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Speaker 2: that photograph you'll remember of Virginia Guffray when she was

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Speaker 2: very young, that infamous photo. I mean, he denied that

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Speaker 2: they literally have made movies about it. Remember that infamous

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Speaker 2: twenty nineteen interview when he sat down basically to say

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Speaker 2: like he has no idea who that is, he doesn't

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Speaker 2: even sweat, like that's how he knows this is on.

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Speaker 2: He has like a weird sweat issue. He doesn't even

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Speaker 2: know how to sweat. It's like a Meanwhile, you see

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Speaker 2: a photo of him today being released from jail. He's

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Speaker 2: in the back of the car, you know, scrunched down

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Speaker 2: like a criminal, like, looking like he's in a full sweat.

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Speaker 2: I might add, exactly what a bad day. I mean,

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Speaker 2: this is a terrible day for It's a terrible day

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Speaker 2: for the royal family. And listen, what he's getting called

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Speaker 2: in for though, is even more scary. So this is

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Speaker 2: not even about the trafficking, which could just be a

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Speaker 2: ploy to kind of buy some time to keep this

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Speaker 2: investigation moving forward for you know, for the royal family,

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Speaker 2: Prince Andrew specifically, who seems to have been dodging this

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Speaker 2: bullet for decades. I might add, straight face lying to

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Speaker 2: everyone under the sun. Literally no shame in the game whatsoever.

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Speaker 2: Now they're saying he was basically trading some really important

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Speaker 2: information with Jeffrey Epstein regarding you know, the government, and

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Speaker 2: that's you know, that could be punishable with life behind bars.

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Speaker 3: That's exactly right. And yeah, King Charles the third. He's

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Speaker 3: issued multiple statements and emphasized that the law must take

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Speaker 3: its course and pledge the royal family's full cooperation with authorities.

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Speaker 5: So that's what's happening now.

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Speaker 3: And just to underline your earlier point, Stephanie, that there

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Speaker 3: there simply is no truth to the fact that Epstein

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Speaker 3: and that Andrew Brook ties with Ebstein when he knew

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Speaker 3: about it.

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Speaker 5: Documents are out that show that.

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Speaker 3: Ed Stein offered to arrange a date with the young

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Speaker 3: Russian woman in twenty ten, and Prince Andrew invited Epstein

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Speaker 3: to dinner at Buckingham Palace.

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Speaker 2: Can you imagine now compromise. But it also speaks to

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Speaker 2: the fact, and again nobody has been arrested from the

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Speaker 2: royal family. Let this really sink in also sixteen forty

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Speaker 2: seven and that was King Charles the First and he

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Speaker 2: was beheaded. He was literally beheaded. So for this is

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Speaker 2: no laughing matter. We're told that the royal family was

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Speaker 2: given no heads up. Prince Andrew, although under lots of scrutiny.

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Speaker 2: We know his titles and his residents, etc. Have all

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Speaker 2: changed very recently, you know, and yes he's embarrassed. But

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Speaker 2: here we are, here we go again. No, No, this

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Speaker 2: seems a little bit different, and if what he's being

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Speaker 2: accused of is true, it's a form of treason. It

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Speaker 2: also shows something much bigger, which I don't think people

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Speaker 2: are really talking about, because I kind of want us

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Speaker 2: make sure we're always getting above of the story, not

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Speaker 2: just the salacious part of like, oh my gosh, Prince Andrew,

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Speaker 2: here we go again, and you'd have to follow the money.

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Speaker 2: This to me, the bigger signal here is that this

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Speaker 2: is confirmation of what we've been suspecting that has been

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Speaker 2: theorized about, is that Jeffrey Epstein was playing all sides.

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Speaker 2: That this guy was getting secrets from the UK through

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Speaker 2: his ally in Prince Andrew, and however that was or

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Speaker 2: whatever that means, he was probably playing all sides. And

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Speaker 2: if that means he was playing for various governments, independent governments,

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Speaker 2: if he was a lone wolf, it really does reinforce

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Speaker 2: the spy piece of this, which I believe will also

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Speaker 2: reinforce ultimately the blackmail piece of this, because at the

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Speaker 2: bare minimum, what we're seeing, and again I want to

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Speaker 2: be mindful not to just throw out like the big

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Speaker 2: juicy details that you know I'm seeing online all day.

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Speaker 2: It's maddening, it's upsetting, it's triggering the bigger picture that

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Speaker 2: I just want to make sure we're all like not

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Speaker 2: losing the plot. Who is everybody working for? Who are

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Speaker 2: those ten people? I think we can all see pretty

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Speaker 2: clearly now, and I'm promising you this is where it's heading.

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Speaker 2: Is that there's an elite group. It's a club. None

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Speaker 2: of us are in it. We're all in one club.

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Speaker 2: Everybody listening is in the same We're all we've all

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Speaker 2: been in the same club this whole time. There's a

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Speaker 2: whole other club above us, and they're calling all the shots,

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Speaker 2: and some of those shots are real scary. So things

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Speaker 2: like this power struggles, power changes. Starting to see the

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Speaker 2: chain of command financially speaking, if we're seeing, you know,

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Speaker 2: somebody in the in Saudi Arabia, or the person who's

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Speaker 2: in charge of shipping boxes, Like we're starting to connect

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Speaker 2: the dots where there may have been two parallel pads.

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Speaker 2: Jeffrey Epstein operating a hunted honey potting scheme for you know,

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Speaker 2: trade secrets within the world, which affects every single one

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Speaker 2: of us, the taxes that we pay, the tariffs that

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Speaker 2: we were getting charged the places that our military will

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Speaker 2: be serving, the people that we love, that we'll be

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Speaker 2: serving on our behalf for reasons that we might not know.

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Speaker 2: And those deals are happening in closed rooms that we

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Speaker 2: were never going to be invited into. It's rigged. That's

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Speaker 2: exactly right.

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Speaker 3: Listen, if you're just joining us, this is true Crime

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Speaker 3: tonight on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: I'm Courtney Armstrong.

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Speaker 3: I'm here with Stephanie Leidecker and Taha houses In for

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Speaker 3: Body Moving Tonight. We're talking about Prince Andrew and his arrest,

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Speaker 3: which is, as it relates to the Ebstein files, the

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Speaker 3: first arrest of a royal in many hundreds of years.

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Speaker 3: So with this particular investigation, the police will continue looking

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Speaker 3: into multiple properties, current and former residences, and they're looking

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Speaker 3: for evidence that relates to sharing of confidential trade information.

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Speaker 3: The Assistant Chief Constable said that following a thorough assessment,

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Speaker 3: we've now opened an investigation into the allegation of mis

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Speaker 3: condom in public office and how important it is. He

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Speaker 3: went on to protect the integrity and objectivity of the investigation.

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Speaker 2: This guy was infiltrated everywhere. Every section of us has

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Speaker 2: been compromised. Think about it. We're looking about Les Wesner

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Speaker 2: from yesterday. It's Victoria's Secrets, Abercombie and Fitch, everything that

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Speaker 2: we wore for generations that in many ways sexualized both sexes.

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Speaker 1: Right, that was.

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Speaker 2: Really just some ruse to make everybody look younger and

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Speaker 2: to create a well for trafficking to happen. And then

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Speaker 2: we're looking into school books and school photographs and now

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Speaker 2: we're seeing it in the modeling agencies and the pageants.

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Speaker 2: Everything has been infiltrated. Now we're seeing it in the

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Speaker 2: banking systems, all of them infiltrated. Now we're seeing it

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Speaker 2: in shipping and you know the hotels, the Hyatt hotel.

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Speaker 2: Think about it. You can't have a trafficking operation if

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Speaker 2: you don't have hotels hotels in a very big way,

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Speaker 2: I might add, so, although the Ditty case may have

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Speaker 2: seemed smaller in scope, a lot of the underpinnings of

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Speaker 2: what he was being accused of held true. By the

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Speaker 2: way we learned about the hotel mess. Remember the hotel

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Speaker 2: nights in the Ditty case. I have never stated a

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Speaker 2: hotel the same since thinking about being at an expensive,

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Speaker 2: beautiful hotel, and the idea that Diddy and one of

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Speaker 2: his weirdo parties had been there, and it's possible that

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Speaker 2: it was out of order because they were doing their

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Speaker 2: craziness in there, and that was so common that in

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Speaker 2: order for that to happen so regularly, to me, that

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Speaker 2: was a signal that happens regularly period the end. And

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Speaker 2: it just turned me on to thinking about hotels. And

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Speaker 2: then recently Gabe and I have been working on a

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Speaker 2: separate project and it's like hotels in general, that is

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Speaker 2: the biggest stream for where you're trafficking humans, Like some

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Speaker 2: hotel has to be involved. Where is that? So these

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Speaker 2: are the things that we're looking into and into, not

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Speaker 2: making that suggestion with the hyatt Uh specifically, although there

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Speaker 2: was obviously some upshakes, there some shake ups there. But

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Speaker 2: my point being is I don't think Prince Andrew or

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Speaker 2: the former Prince Andrew Grew, you know, woke up this

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Speaker 2: morning thinking this is how the day was going to go.

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Speaker 2: And it makes me encouraged because I can tell you

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Speaker 2: more people want justice and goodness and greatness than we think.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think this is going to be the great,

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Speaker 2: the great steady if you will.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and these you know, these high profile with Andrew

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Speaker 3: with the Norwegian. I'm forgetting his title, but you know,

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Speaker 3: people in high powers being actually held accountable. People are celebrating,

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Speaker 3: and I actually I think you're right that this may

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Speaker 3: be a sea change.

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Speaker 2: All the time. For yeah, there was just like that.

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Speaker 2: Who knew that this was even on the horizon. But

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Speaker 2: again I think think it's something to feel hopeful about.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, So again, this investigation with Prince Andrew, they expect

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Speaker 3: it to take either weeks or months, so this will

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Speaker 3: be slow and unfolding and as time progresses will certainly

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Speaker 3: keep you abreast. But it's a big deal, and I

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Speaker 3: think it's kind of worth celebrating someone who's done bad

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Speaker 3: things and they're all having to face them for the victims.

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Speaker 2: And it also just shows that there is an elite

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Speaker 2: group of frankly what appears to be white men. None

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Speaker 2: offense to all the many great ones, because there's so many,

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Speaker 2: that this is a small select group that are really

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Speaker 2: just above humanity in their minds.

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Speaker 3: In their minds. Well, reckoning is here when we come back.

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Speaker 3: Three men are found dead in a Detroit basement. A

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Speaker 3: mystery witness had led police inside, and we're going to

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Speaker 3: talk about a seventeen year old who Went Missing?

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Speaker 2: True Crimesident. Welcome back to true Crime tonight on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: We're talking true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker

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Speaker 2: here with Courtney Armstrong and producer Taha hous Is in

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Speaker 2: the hot seat. Our body is out for the evening.

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Speaker 2: We missed you as always body, but Taha So yeah,

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Speaker 2: we've been talking. Excuse me, goodness, I just wash. My

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Speaker 2: hands are up. My hands are up for Prince Andrew.

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Speaker 2: You know, this is such a big development, and it's

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Speaker 2: brought with it a lot of chatter too, and some

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Speaker 2: of it we're seeing it. We just don't know if

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Speaker 2: we can completely verify some of the chatter or even

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Speaker 2: about say, for example, Queen Elizabeth. There's a lot of

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Speaker 2: chatter about the fact that maybe some of her money

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Speaker 2: was a part of the money that was paid out

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Speaker 2: to the victims as hush money, and you know, is

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Speaker 2: that okay? I don't know, but you know, again I'm

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Speaker 2: seeing that everywhere. But again it needs to still sort

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Speaker 2: of be verified.

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Speaker 3: Is it okay to no? If true, it's not okay,

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Speaker 3: period the end. And this is millions of dollars. You

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Speaker 3: did emphasize, which is important that it came from her

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Speaker 3: private estate, so wasn't taken from sort of, you know,

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Speaker 3: the people of England. But no, I think it's I

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Speaker 3: think it's garbage. I think it's garbage. And she protected Andrew.

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Speaker 3: The Queen had just a real soft spot for Andrew,

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Speaker 3: protected him through kind of a debauchrous like he was

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Speaker 3: kind of a nair where never do good or.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, despair air who never quite added up. And but

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Speaker 2: all that to be said, she did always protect him,

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Speaker 2: and yeah, everyone always rumored that he was always her favorite. Yes,

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Speaker 2: somehow that she's somehow favored him constantly, and maybe he

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Speaker 2: was sheltered and babied. He looks like a guy who

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Speaker 2: doesn't have a clue what's going on. So imagine you're

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Speaker 2: being raised in this atmosphere, maybe sheltered. I'm sure this

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Speaker 2: new generation is doing things very differently. But he seems

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Speaker 2: like he doesn't even know that there's something to be

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Speaker 2: ashamed of. Right, So when he sits down for an

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Speaker 2: interview with great confidence to say that he did nothing

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Speaker 2: wrong and that Virginia Goufrey's account of him having sex

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Speaker 2: with her as a minor and her being trafficked to

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Speaker 2: Prince Andrew he's so dismissive about it, but to know

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Speaker 2: that that's now accurate is so upsetting. I can't even

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Speaker 2: believe that you can straight face Why would he sit

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Speaker 2: down for that interview? It's shocking.

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Speaker 4: I mean, that's the question, is the question to start there?

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Speaker 4: There are people who think they've done something wrong, and

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Speaker 4: in their minds, it's not wrong. So he feels like,

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Speaker 4: you know, there wasn't something wrong with that. I'm being

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Speaker 4: completely upfront and not like.

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Speaker 2: He pass the light detector tests, probably because he believes

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Speaker 2: this reality or is in such a depraved group of

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Speaker 2: humans that what he's being accused of is a softball issue,

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Speaker 2: probably in his head. When we hear people saying that

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Speaker 2: they're exonerated based on the emails, I'm like, I don't

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Speaker 2: know what emails you're glad aren't out, but these seem

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Speaker 2: pretty bad. So what is it that you're so glad

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Speaker 2: you escaped hearing more about or that aren't in the

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Speaker 2: files at the moment, Because this has to just be

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Speaker 2: the tip of the iceberg. You can't tell me that

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Speaker 2: the optics on this are not slightly We're getting what

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Speaker 2: we're supposed to be getting at this stage.

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Speaker 3: No, I was forget if I was reading an article

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Speaker 3: or listening to something. But if you stacked the papers,

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Speaker 3: then Companyby's paper is if you stack them up, they're

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Speaker 3: taller than the Empire state building. What in the filen

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Speaker 3: to go through and with no with no order to them,

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Speaker 3: And then that doesn't account for time, not even chronological,

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Speaker 3: it's not not at all chronological. And sourcing, double sourcing

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Speaker 3: all of the redactions to make it more complicated.

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Speaker 2: No, not to mention the double reactions. Like even Congress

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Speaker 2: who's allowed to go and look on the four computers

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Speaker 2: to see the unredacted versions, are actually seeing the previously

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Speaker 2: redacted versions that have maybe less reactions but aren't unredacted.

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Speaker 2: It's like that's become the buzzword is redactions.

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Speaker 4: I hope there's some sort of AI program or something

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Speaker 4: that's taking this and deleting it. No, no, no, organizing

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Speaker 4: it in a way that we can sort of digest,

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Speaker 4: because it's so much information.

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Speaker 2: We already know that things are getting taken down from

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Speaker 2: the DOJ website that have already been seen and screen

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Speaker 2: grabbed and then now taking down because they implicate certain people.

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Speaker 2: I mean it's pretty shocking. I mean, basically every single

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Speaker 2: person who said they didn't know anything and that they're

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Speaker 2: isn't anything there. Every single person was lying to us.

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Speaker 2: And these are people that I voted for, you know,

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Speaker 2: like it's a real bummer. Yeah, lie by the way,

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Speaker 2: right now, to be able, here's my only observation, and

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Speaker 2: there's one positive observation that we are in an error

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Speaker 2: right now where being authentic, which doesn't mean you have

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Speaker 2: to be perfect, it's just being authentic, Just being authentic

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Speaker 2: and yourself and upfront even when it's really hard, which

359
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Speaker 2: typically it is. Right that is going to be the

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Speaker 2: greatest resource that this next chapter will have in the

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Speaker 2: spirit of AI of you know, fillers and facelifts and

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Speaker 2: you know, just the end of the game is how

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Speaker 2: well can you say it with a straight face and

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Speaker 2: how much can you lie through your teeth with it

365
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Speaker 2: seeming believable. Seems like it's become the job versus is

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Speaker 2: the real job? Right? Or how I guess in my

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Speaker 2: primitive bed, I thought the job was like to make

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Speaker 2: the world better. But I don't know. I think we're

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Speaker 2: in a precipice of some really big changes and I

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Speaker 2: hope they're beautiful. And if I hear a single thing.

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Speaker 2: I'm hearing a soft launch about alien talk. I wish

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Speaker 2: the only reason that and I want to put in

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Speaker 2: on everybody's radars so as proof that I said it

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Speaker 2: out loud. I'm here in chatter about alien talk. Adam,

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Speaker 2: have you heard anything.

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Speaker 4: Et type alien like UFO? Is that what you're talking about?

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Speaker 2: It's almost as if And by the way, I may

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Speaker 2: have turned into a conspiracy theorist over the weekend, so

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Speaker 2: take some of this with a grain of salt. So

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Speaker 2: I'm giving you the chicken little version of where my

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Speaker 2: fearful little head is going. Is that, Oh, there's like

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Speaker 2: a code read somewhere in the world, in this real

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Speaker 2: little elite room, that these very very wealthy elites are

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Speaker 2: sitting making grand decisions that suddenly we've entered or different

385
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Speaker 2: stage of the oh my gosh stage and they're like

386
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Speaker 2: sound you know, it's code B, and Code B is

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Speaker 2: going to be make them think aliens are coming. And

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Speaker 2: I feel like that's what we're going to hear next.

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Speaker 4: I have not heard that, but I yeah, I did.

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Speaker 6: I did see like I think people have been talking about,

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Speaker 6: because Obama did some interview where he was talking about aliens,

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Speaker 6: and I forget exactly what he said about it, but.

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Speaker 2: You cannot tell me that there is a single president

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Speaker 2: that is alive at this moment that is not scripted

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Speaker 2: right now.

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Speaker 6: But I personally am very skeptical about the alien talk.

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Speaker 6: You know, we should be, we should be wary, but

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Speaker 6: who knows.

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Speaker 3: I mean, Trump did say today that he's going to

400
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Speaker 3: release files on aliens, and UFOs and Adam are correct.

401
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Speaker 3: It was Trump kind of lashed out at former President

402
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Speaker 3: Barack Obama for telling about podcaster or that aliens were real.

403
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Speaker 2: So so he's saying that they're not real.

404
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Speaker 3: He is saying, well, he's going to release the administration.

405
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Speaker 3: He's going to release it. But he attacked Barack Obama

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Speaker 3: for saying that aliens were real.

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Speaker 2: So I believe. So all friends, they're all in on

408
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Speaker 2: it together. They're all in to say, they're in the

409
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Speaker 2: same room. Interesting. I don't think the rivals are rivaling

410
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Speaker 2: quite the same. Everybody must have known.

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Speaker 3: Hmmm, well, if you are just joining us and you

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Speaker 3: know anything about aliens that we should know, give us

413
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Speaker 3: a call eight a eight three to one crime and tah,

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Speaker 3: I think you had a story to share.

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Speaker 4: I did. I mean, this is going into our true

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Speaker 4: crime genre. And this is actually it was a DM

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Speaker 4: from someone. It was a case suggestion from someone, and

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Speaker 4: I'm going to read this what they wrote and I

419
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Speaker 4: looked into the case. It's interesting but curious if you've

420
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Speaker 4: heard about it. This comes from Angie, and Angie said, Hey,

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Speaker 4: ladies and gent First, I want to let you guys

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Speaker 4: know how much I love your podcast. I listen to

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Speaker 4: you guys every day on my drive to and from work.

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Speaker 4: You all sound like people I could hang out with.

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Speaker 4: I was wondering if you could check out the case

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Speaker 4: of seventeen year old Hailey Busby from Fisher's, Indiana. She's

427
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Speaker 4: believed to have been talking to a thirty nine year

428
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Speaker 4: old on a gaming app. I'm not sure which one,

429
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Speaker 4: and I pray this predator gets what he's what he deserves.

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Speaker 4: So I wasn't familiar with the case and I did

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Speaker 4: some looking into it, and first of all, it's a sad,

432
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 4: awful story, but I will fill you in. She's a

433
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 4: seventeen year old girl and it is Hailey Busby from Fisher's,

434
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 4: Indiana Hall, Indiana. She left her home early in January

435
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 4: after she connected with this thirty nine year old man

436
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:02,479
Speaker 4: on a gaming app came back. It began as a

437
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 4: missing team case, but then it quickly kind of turned

438
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 4: into a multi state investigation that crossed into Ohio because

439
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 4: things took a tragic turn when they found her body

440
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 4: in Ohio. They arrested the man that she had been

441
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 4: communicating with, and he is the accused kidnapper, Tyler Thompson.

442
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,680
Speaker 4: He now faces federal charges, and investigators have not publicly

443
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 4: detailed exactly what happened in the time between her disappearance

444
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 4: and the discovery of her body, but that's the general

445
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 4: gist of everything that went on. And it's awful because again,

446
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 4: we're going to be talking about this a little bit

447
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,439
Speaker 4: later when we get into the Mark Zuckerberg case and

448
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,239
Speaker 4: everything that's going on with Meta right now. But the

449
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 4: fact that this seventeen year old girl was talking to

450
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 4: someone who is thirty nine that really should never have

451
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 4: been the case traveled. She took the time to travel

452
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 4: to go visit this person, and you know, obviously we

453
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 4: know what happened. But the accused kidnapper, as I mentioned,

454
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 4: he was arrested in Ohio and he's currently facing federal

455
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 4: charges including tampering with evidence, child exploitation, and he's not

456
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 4: been formally charged with the murder because the investigation is

457
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 4: still active as they're pursuing additional information and reviewing the charges.

458
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 4: It's just it's just horrible. And then there was a

459
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 4: wonderful celebration of life for the young girl. And sometimes

460
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 4: I like to lean in towards the victims and talk

461
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 4: about that, but during her celebration of life, the family

462
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 4: members remembered her as someone who lit up a room,

463
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,959
Speaker 4: brought energy and humor wherever she went. She was outgoing,

464
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 4: she spent time with friends, loved She had a big

465
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 4: personality and a caring nature. And the family has expressed

466
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 4: frustration over the sole role that social media has played

467
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 4: in this. So they're urging other parents to closely monitor

468
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:07,919
Speaker 4: online activity, and they're really warning teens about interacting with

469
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 4: adults that you meet online.

470
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know how this genie goes back

471
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 3: in the bottle it is. It feels. It feels very

472
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:21,880
Speaker 3: overwhelming at times, it really does. And I know we've had,

473
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 3: for example, internet safety expert Katie Greer on to help,

474
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 3: and she brings some sanity and some steps, but this

475
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 3: is so emblematic of something that is such a wide

476
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 3: ranging problem of people victimizing children online.

477
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 2: I mean, there's no other way to put it.

478
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, here's happening all the time, and I don't know

479
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 3: of anything scarier.

480
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was curious too, I was looking today in there.

481
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 2: It's just too soon to tell, right, there had been

482
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 2: such strict laws implemented in Australia, for example, you know,

483
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 2: taking away social media from young adults, and the age

484
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 2: and all the appropriateness and all the things that are

485
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 2: so true. I'm so curious to watch how that tracks.

486
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 2: I have no doubt that it's going to be such

487
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 2: easy data to point to. We know that it's terrible

488
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 2: and that these games can have such terrible effects.

489
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, and sometimes you know, in this particular case, this

490
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 4: was a horrific tragedy. But I can see the pendulum

491
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 4: swinging where they're trying to make something positive out of it,

492
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 4: because it seems like this has prompted Indiana lawmakers to

493
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 4: introduce some new legislation aim towards increasing protection toward miners online. Also,

494
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 4: it sounds like they are they're trying to strengthen their

495
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 4: missing person alert systems, So it sounds like there's some

496
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 4: issues with their systems that weren't up to par, so

497
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 4: I shouldn't say that they're not up to par, but

498
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 4: that can be even better than what they have at

499
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 4: the moment. So maybe there's something that will come out

500
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 4: of this that's a positive and hopefully other states have.

501
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 2: Sexual predator problem in this country. Unbelievable and it's so sad,

502
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 2: and the statistics are really shocking. Meaning, you know, within

503
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 2: the sound of our voice right now, look around. Chances

504
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 2: are you know two of the five people that are

505
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 2: around you have you know, experienced some level of high

506
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 2: high trauma sexual abuse. It's unreal and like, where do

507
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 2: you start the training? You know, because it's really a

508
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 2: function of like it's not okay number one, and like

509
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 2: here are the cycle breakers? Because it's everywhere the internet.

510
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 2: It's like, how do you control that? We really can't.

511
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 4: And it's funny because as you say that, I can't

512
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 4: tell is it Are there more cases of it? Or

513
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 4: am I hearing more about it?

514
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 2: Be caring more about it? The truth is being revealed

515
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 2: more is my strong opinion, and I think the statistics

516
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 2: would agree with me on this. I think this is

517
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 2: something that we're seeing has been systemic and around us

518
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 2: for far longer than we think. And I think victims

519
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 2: feel so isolated and like this is something so unique

520
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 2: to them, and it can be so damaging while you

521
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 2: don't realize that it's look around, it's everybody, and then

522
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 2: that becomes and your boundaries get stretched, and then you

523
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 2: feel bad and filled with shame. And then suddenly you

524
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 2: attract the weird guy or the weird girl because they

525
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 2: have similar pain. And now we're trauma bonding, and then

526
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 2: we have generational trauma and the story continues, story continues. Listen,

527
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 2: all kinds of things to still get to. We want

528
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 2: to talk about Mark Zuckerberg, who has been in the

529
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 2: hot seat himself, so we're going to be getting to

530
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 2: that more in the next hour. And also, if you

531
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 2: want to join the conversation eight eight eight three one crime,

532
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 2: let's go to a talk back now.

533
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 7: Hi, this is Alicia from New Jersey and I'm listening

534
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 7: to the episode where you're talking about the Fentanel poisoning

535
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 7: and the jury selection, and it made me wonder if

536
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 7: you guys have ever had to actually serve on a jury.

537
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 7: I imagine when they ask what you do, if that

538
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 7: automatically gets you dismissed. Also, I listen to you guys

539
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 7: all week. You keep me up to date and entertained

540
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 7: while I decorate cookies all day. And so if I

541
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 7: wanted to send you guys some cookies, would you let

542
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 7: me know where I could send them? And then I

543
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 7: can let you know where you could send a sweat shirt. Thanks.

544
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 4: I was ready to text her my address immediately.

545
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 2: You should have seen the jumping up and down that

546
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 2: just went fins. Yes, we definitely will trade for cookies.

547
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 2: We can run a trading.

548
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, it's going to be like cheese

549
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 3: whiz crossing the country and little.

550
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 2: Like swat meat. But I have I'm gluten free, so

551
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 2: I can't partake in the cookies, but I can watch

552
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 2: the most amazing faces in front of me eat those cookies.

553
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 2: So go ahead, that's gonna be fun. So all that

554
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 2: info and will send you where.

555
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 4: To say, we will do it. And she sounded so

556
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,959
Speaker 4: sweet that I bet you she would find a gluten

557
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 4: free recipe to make sure that you do not feel

558
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 4: left out.

559
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 2: So what a fun job that must see them? Like,

560
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 2: decorate cookies all day. That's hard on your back. That

561
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 2: could also be a lot on your feet. Yeah, a

562
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 2: lot on your feet.

563
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 4: It would be a lot on my waistline. I would

564
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 4: be like Lucille Ball with the stuff and food.

565
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 2: And like oh forever covered in a confetti sugar.

566
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 6: Yeah.

567
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 4: But to that point, I'm just gonna ask, have you

568
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 4: guys I have never I can lead the answer, I

569
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 4: have never served on jury duty and I really want to,

570
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 4: and I feel left out because I feel.

571
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 2: Like you would be so funny on jury duty. Have

572
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 2: you guys ever seen the show Jury Duty where it's

573
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 2: like a reality show and there's one juror who's a

574
00:33:58,080 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 2: real person, but everybody else is an actor?

575
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 4: No, have you not seen it?

576
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 2: You guys have to go watch. So it's actually very

577
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 2: quite good. It's the actor who's like Prince Charming in

578
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 2: all the different movies, like all the fairy tale movies,

579
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 2: spacing on his name. He's the star of it. But

580
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 2: you'll recognize some of the actors. So the judge, the

581
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 2: whole case is fake and everybody is an actor, and

582
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 2: then this one guy is real and it's kind of

583
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,479
Speaker 2: you see him kind of being just the really good

584
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 2: person that he is in this jury situation, and he

585
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 2: really is just like a hero. But you know, he

586
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 2: could have gone all kinds of ways. So it was like,

587
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:40,839
Speaker 2: a it's like a punk type show.

588
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:47,240
Speaker 4: That sounds fine, but oh I love it. Okay, he's great.

589
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,720
Speaker 2: He's really funny. He plays himself but like a bad juror,

590
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 2: like he's at jury duty but doesn't want to be

591
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 2: there because he's an actor and he's like badly behaved,

592
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,439
Speaker 2: you know. So it's kind of like like the whole

593
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 2: actor silly and crazy and their scenarios are really funny

594
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 2: and the guy is so sweet.

595
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,320
Speaker 5: I'm like desperate to watch the show.

596
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,959
Speaker 3: I missed it, but it looked like it got three

597
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 3: Emmy Awards.

598
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 2: Oh, it's really good and like the actors are really funny.

599
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 2: It's all sketch comedy basically. Okay, I didn't make this show,

600
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 2: nor do I work on it, nor am I promoting it,

601
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 2: but it is worth the watch. And Courtney Armstrong, I bet,

602
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 2: was great on Jerry Dude, Were you.

603
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 5: I've never served. I have been through Wader.

604
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 3: I've been called a lot of times what feels like

605
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,280
Speaker 3: a lot of times, but I'll tell you about one time.

606
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 3: But no, I've never served. I've never gotten past. So

607
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 3: one time, this was in Connecticut where I went to College,

608
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:50,760
Speaker 3: and I was called and I was nineteen, and they

609
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 3: in Connecticut, or at least in this court for the

610
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 3: only time they did wader this way. You actually went

611
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 3: in and sat like next to the judge where a

612
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 3: witness would sit, which I felt so nervous.

613
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, that seems so stressed, I felt.

614
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 3: And they're just asking questions, Hey, the normal jury questions,

615
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:09,439
Speaker 3: and then you know, what do you do? I said,

616
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 3: I'm a camp counselor, but I a college student at

617
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 3: Trinity College. And then he said, oh Trinity College. Do

618
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 3: you have you ever been to the View, which was.

619
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 2: A bar, and I was like, oh my god, Barbara Walters,

620
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 2: I'm going to get arrested for underage drinking.

621
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 5: Can stand?

622
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 2: I was?

623
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 5: I was terrified. I'm like, I'm aware of the View.

624
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 3: Right now, I have anyway, I give it up and

625
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 3: cut to after everyone we were all dismissed. The guy

626
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 3: was like, hey, graduated from Trinity like five years ago,

627
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 3: so he was just asking for curiosity.

628
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 2: Okay, terrified, I think you would be a very good jury.

629
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,320
Speaker 2: You both would, because you're both very honest to any

630
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 2: care deeply.

631
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 4: That part is true. But I don't have a my

632
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 4: face would give it all away.

633
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 2: That is actually true. They would have to put you

634
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 2: in a costume. You would have to wear like a

635
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 2: bag of your head. You have you have to sit

636
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 2: facing the wall.

637
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,800
Speaker 5: They feel like eleveners, and then your.

638
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 2: Chair has to face the Yeah, just the back of

639
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 2: your head. What about you, Stephanie. I yes, I have.

640
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 2: I've served I think three times actually one time candidly.

641
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 2: And I don't recommend this, and I'm embarrassed and a

642
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 2: shame to admit this, but I it was just very

643
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 2: badly timed as and I think I had tried to

644
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 2: get out of it and pushed it one too many

645
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 2: times and I had to appear, and in my head

646
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 2: driving there, I had all these ways I was going

647
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 2: to get out of it, and I was young. This

648
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 2: is many many, many, many decades ago, and I think

649
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 2: I tried to like fake a cry or something, and

650
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:55,359
Speaker 2: they were not having it. I was like first picked. Yeah,

651
00:37:55,360 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 2: it was like being drafted. And then I saw the

652
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 2: error in my ways, because as soon as I was there,

653
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 2: I was like, it's such an important piece of the puzzle,

654
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 2: and pay attention and listen. It's you really see the

655
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 2: show of it, and how important it is to really

656
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 2: care and it's a person's livelihood. I never sat on

657
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 2: a case that had any murder or anything deadly on it.

658
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 2: And frankly, I don't think I worked in true crime

659
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 2: at all the last time I served, and none of

660
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 2: the cases where particularly juicy. Was more just like a

661
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 2: financial crime or something. But you know, everybody took it

662
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 2: very serious. Interesting.

663
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:38,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's really interesting.

664
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,320
Speaker 5: Sam Adam Any interesting jury stories.

665
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 6: I got called to jury duty once when I was

666
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 6: like eighteen and Texas, and I showed up and they

667
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,359
Speaker 6: turned me away and said they didn't need me. So

668
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 6: and then I got a letter in the mail just

669
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 6: of like last week, with the big red letters that

670
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 6: said jury summons, and I was like, and I looked

671
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 6: at the address and it was just someone who formerly

672
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 6: lived at my address, So I've avoided it.

673
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 2: You almost would have showed up.

674
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 4: Yeah.

675
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 8: The closest I got was I was twenty five. I

676
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 8: was still living in the Bay Area. I at least

677
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 8: got what do you call it? They like talk to

678
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 8: you and ask what you do and how Yeah, yeah,

679
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 8: And it would have been for a DUI case. And like,

680
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 8: I was an usher at the Oakland Arena at the time,

681
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 8: and I almost had some idea based off of like,

682
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 8: you know, when you're around drunk sports fans, so it's like,

683
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 8: I know what drinking or drunk people look like. But

684
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:51,280
Speaker 8: I'm glad I because I feel like being a jurors

685
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 8: so much pressure, and it's like, I don't know if

686
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 8: I can decide someone very exciting.

687
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 2: Yes you can. They need you. They need somebody with

688
00:39:57,640 --> 00:39:59,880
Speaker 2: common sense who's going to really listen and pay attention.

689
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 2: So the next time you get that summons, you have

690
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 2: to jump up and down.

691
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 4: That's it. That's what I'll do.

692
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 2: I can't wait to serve this country. I can't wait

693
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 2: too about that.

694
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 9: Hey, Alisia Misissippi. Here, I'm still playing ketch up on

695
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:16,839
Speaker 9: all episodes. I finally made it to the New Year.

696
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 9: But there's one episode where you said that there are

697
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 9: no good billionaires, and I am very much inclined to

698
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 9: agree with that. We do not need any mister crabs

699
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 9: of the world. However, I think that Mark Cuban might

700
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 9: qualify as one because four years ago he opened Costs

701
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 9: plus Strokes Pharmacy. It's an online pharmacy with actual affordable medications,

702
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 9: and just for comparison Walgreens, it would cost me fifty

703
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:39,319
Speaker 9: dollars for just one of my medications, while it's ten

704
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 9: dollars on his site. That's a forty dollars different.

705
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 4: Wow. I did not know about his pharmaceutical company me either.

706
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I had. I had seen an interview with him,

707
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 3: and it's it's.

708
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 2: Do you have talked about him easily five times. So

709
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 2: it's shocking that the talkback said Mark Cuban, Because Courtney,

710
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 2: if I'm not mistaken, you said Mark Cuban is a

711
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,280
Speaker 2: great billionaire multiple times.

712
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 4: Not me, Body, yeah, body, Yeah, I think body has

713
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 4: mentioned it and and I had to look it up,

714
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,359
Speaker 4: and you know, several people have said the same thing.

715
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 4: But he definitely has done a lot of positive things.

716
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 4: And I mean, of course we all know him from

717
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 4: Shark Tank, but I'm looking at some of his background,

718
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 4: like the Dallas Mavericks of course, or the big things.

719
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 4: But it sounds like the healthcare distribution is a big thing,

720
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 4: and he's really continually to focus continuing to focus on

721
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 4: lowering prescription drugs, which the big problem for people. Yeah,

722
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 4: so maybe there is some truth and there I know

723
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 4: they have to be billionaires. I think we jokingly said that,

724
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 4: you know, between breaks and something, you have to do

725
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:48,239
Speaker 4: a little something dirty to be a billionaire. I don't know.

726
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 4: I mean, I hate to think that.

727
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 2: You think that, but there's not a lot of them.

728
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 5: Warren Buffett seems all right.

729
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 3: I gotta say, he gives his cash away and he

730
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 3: I don't know, he's SEMs real to have a lot

731
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 3: of good to common, just like horse sense. Anytime I've

732
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:09,919
Speaker 3: ever heard him speak or read about him, Oh, I'm

733
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 3: looking right now, and.

734
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 4: He still leads that sort of frugal lifestyle. I think

735
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 4: he lives in a modest wy Well, they.

736
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 2: Say too, you have to keep it simple. Yeah, no

737
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 2: more big. You don't live in a big, mega mansion.

738
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 2: That doesn't bring happiness. Yeah, yes, you know, we know this.

739
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:29,439
Speaker 4: We know this, We've seen it. We've been talking about

740
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 4: it from the beginning with this show that they're you know,

741
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:34,879
Speaker 4: I don't know that you would think the money brings

742
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,320
Speaker 4: you some sort of happiness or maybe maybe because I

743
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:37,839
Speaker 4: don't some.

744
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 2: Money does that's not also overcorrect. I think everybody should

745
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 2: have some for sure. You can then get that said healthcare.

746
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:48,800
Speaker 2: But the billionaires, I mean, I think that's where we're seeing.

747
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 2: We're seeing some troubling behavior with a lot of the

748
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 2: brands that I personally participate with absolutely.

749
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 5: But one more thing about Buffett.

750
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 3: He has pledged to give away ninety nine percent of

751
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 3: his fortune wow to philanthropic causes and he yeah, so

752
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 3: we've got.

753
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 2: Two off the toime. Go okay, all right, grab another

754
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 2: good news. I think the truth is coming out. Hey.

755
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:16,840
Speaker 9: I was listening to that episode on the low s

756
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,320
Speaker 9: Gatto's Party Mom, and it reminded me of the movie.

757
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:22,800
Speaker 9: Ma I don't know if you know who the movie,

758
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 9: but Octavia Spencer plays in it, and she plays a

759
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 9: lonely older woman who befriends a group of teenagers and

760
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 9: lets them party out in her basement and then once

761
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 9: they start to distance themselves from her, things turn like

762
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,280
Speaker 9: super sketchy and weird.

763
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:43,319
Speaker 2: She's so right, that's a scary movie. Maw m A

764
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 2: right is that it's it's cool at first and she

765
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 2: kind of understands teenagers and then it goes real south.

766
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 4: That is it, And that was I think she's referring to.

767
00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 4: We're talking a while back about Shannon O'Connor. She's a

768
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 4: party mom that was on trial in Santa Clarita facing

769
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 4: uh tt. She basically there were multiple teenage victims that

770
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 4: were part of these drug fueled not drug I'm sorry,

771
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 4: alcohol fueled parties that she organized. There was like sex happening,

772
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:20,800
Speaker 4: but she was the mom that was sort of the

773
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 4: ring master. She put everything together and would you know,

774
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:27,359
Speaker 4: organize these events. Some of them happened during I think

775
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 4: they happened during COVID if I'm not mistaken, But none

776
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 4: of that, that's right, that has a lot to do

777
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 4: with it. But she was the party mom and she

778
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 4: was putting things together for these miners to drink and

779
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 4: have sex and do all these wild things. So that's

780
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 4: the case she's referring to for anybody out there who's

781
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 4: not familiar. But that movie was.

782
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:48,759
Speaker 2: Was did they die? Di somebody die?

783
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 4: There weren't any deaths there was. She was more child

784
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:57,879
Speaker 4: endangerment and I think there were some injuries. I think

785
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 4: someone got in during one of the parties.

786
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 3: But also facilitating and having basically sex rooms and like

787
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 3: encouraging people to go into children to go into these rooms.

788
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 2: It was.

789
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 3: Pretty deplorable stuff and supplying loads of alcohol. I mean,

790
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 3: it's you have to wonder what sort of mental detachment

791
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 3: I don't even.

792
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 4: Know what, And these are young now I'm seeing they're

793
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,280
Speaker 4: fourteen and fifteen year olds, and some of the incidents

794
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 4: include pushing intoxicated teenagers into bedrooms. This is what she

795
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 4: was doing. One teen girl nearly drowned in a hot tub,

796
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 4: and see there was an injury where there was a

797
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 4: broken pinky and a concussion, several sexual assaults during the parties. Teens.

798
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 4: These fourteen year olds were found running around barefoot, smelling

799
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 4: of alcohol and vomiting throughout. So you know, she was

800
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 4: making sure everyone is having fun, but in a wild way,

801
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,840
Speaker 4: not responsibly obviously, But yeah.

802
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:06,919
Speaker 2: That's terrible, isn't it. We haven't heard anything about Tim

803
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 2: Bussey getting out of jail on his melestation charges, right.

804
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:15,399
Speaker 4: No, nothing yet. That one we're still keeping an eye

805
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 4: on as well.

806
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 3: Well, he's still I mean, he's out of prison last

807
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 3: I knew, and he's is staying he has to stay

808
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 3: in New Mexico. That's the best of my recollection.

809
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 4: But that and the David case. Of the two cases

810
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 4: that every day I'm checking to see if there's anything new, which.

811
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 3: The Celeste Reva's case, the fourteen year old girl who

812
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 3: ran away, who is less well, we will keep her

813
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 3: eye on these cases. And listen coming up. It's top

814
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 3: of the hour and right after the commercial break, Mark

815
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 3: Zuckerberg faced some really tough questions in court. We're going

816
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,279
Speaker 3: to talk about what's been revealed about Instagram's impact on

817
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 3: kids that may change everything. Keep it here a True

818
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 3: Crime tonight.

819
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

820
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 2: crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney Armstrong.

821
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 2: Our body is off of the evening, but we have

822
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:28,359
Speaker 2: Taha in the hot seat with us this evening, and

823
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 2: of course we have Sam and Adam waiting for your

824
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,919
Speaker 2: phone calls in the control room. So eight eight eight

825
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:37,360
Speaker 2: three one Crime if you want to join us live

826
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 2: or just keep those talkback coming, talk backs coming because

827
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 2: we love them so so much. Crazy day in court

828
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 2: again this time Mark Zuckerberg. And again if I seem

829
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:56,839
Speaker 2: dismayed by these big names in these big assertions that

830
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:00,359
Speaker 2: we all believed in to hear some of the not

831
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 2: being the case in the land of Mark Zuckerberg in

832
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 2: social media and Courtney taychus Away. I know this is

833
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 2: a big one to unpack, but it's really important. It's

834
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:12,759
Speaker 2: so important.

835
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,399
Speaker 3: I think this, you know, We talked about the sea

836
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:18,800
Speaker 3: changes earlier, and I think this fallout, if it falls

837
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 3: where I hope it does, may literally.

838
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 2: Shift the way things are going.

839
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 3: So Mark Zuckerberg, you know his name, He's the CEO

840
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 3: of Meta, Facebook, all of the above. He took the

841
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 3: stand in Los Angeles Perior Court and it's really a

842
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:38,879
Speaker 3: landmark trial. The claims are that Instagram and YouTube were

843
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 3: built to be addictive and harmful to kids, and a

844
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 3: lot of people are calling this case the social media

845
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 3: world's big tobacco moment.

846
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 2: It is, it is, It is the tobacco moment we

847
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:51,360
Speaker 2: knew was coming.

848
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 3: Absolutely and at the center of this particular lawsuit is HEYGM,

849
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 3: a twenty year old woman from californi Ornia, and what

850
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 3: she says is that using these apps as a child

851
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 3: led to addiction, anxiety, depression, and body image issues. And

852
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 3: this case is just the first of a wave that's coming.

853
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 3: They're over braced yourselves. Over sixteen hundred plaintiffs. Wow, there

854
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 3: are more than three hundred and fifty families and two

855
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:26,400
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty school districts, all of them are accusing

856
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:31,240
Speaker 3: social media companies of deliberately creating platforms that hurts kids'

857
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 3: mental health, which.

858
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 2: We know it does, and he can't deny it. So

859
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 2: even just to see Mark Zuckerberg on the stand not

860
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 2: even being able to fully deny that, and we were

861
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:45,720
Speaker 2: all pulled into this exact problem by him directly granted

862
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:48,279
Speaker 2: a little bit, eyes wide open. We all started the

863
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 2: Facebook train together and that evolved into at least in

864
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 2: my world, you know, Instagram and all the things that

865
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:58,760
Speaker 2: came there after, and it would never go to children,

866
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 2: and co of course COVID changed that. We all had to,

867
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 2: you know, loosen the reins. You know, it was a

868
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 2: survival technique. It actually all feels slightly by design, because again,

869
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 2: what are the odds that something was designed to make

870
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 2: us all feel connected would rip us apart so much?

871
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 2: And right now exactly what Mark Zuckerberg has put in

872
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 2: front of us, exactly these algorithms now and you know,

873
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:27,520
Speaker 2: getting fed misinformation and the confusion that comes along with it,

874
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:31,800
Speaker 2: and the filters. Hearing that there are filters being added

875
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:34,240
Speaker 2: to things in the mental health that had the mental

876
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 2: effects that has had on young women is just unimaginable.

877
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:42,359
Speaker 2: So yeah, they're being called to the carpet. And not

878
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 2: only is it the cigarette moment. It's the cigarette moment,

879
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:47,880
Speaker 2: it's the drug moment, it's the alcohol moment, all wrapped

880
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:51,719
Speaker 2: up into one. And it stinks because we kind of

881
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 2: knew it. We knew they were doing this, and everyone

882
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 2: denied it and roadblocks was going to be okay. Also,

883
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 2: it's behind None of it is safe.

884
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:06,240
Speaker 3: They've all been lying, oh absolutely, and making money hand

885
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 3: over fist. I mean we Stephanie, I know you remember

886
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:12,799
Speaker 3: because we did this really deep dive on the podcast

887
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 3: in cells into algorithms and the business of them and

888
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 3: how I mean some.

889
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 2: Companies more pricey than that.

890
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 3: No, some of these companies literally have profits that are

891
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 3: greater than the GDPs of other countries into perspective.

892
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 5: Wow, so that's the money at risk.

893
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 2: And people are always like, well, TikTok whatever they're stealing

894
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 2: my information. My answer was always the same as it

895
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 2: seemed like everybody's answer, right who didn't care was kind

896
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,439
Speaker 2: of like, well, I'm not that interesting. Who cares? You know, Well,

897
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 2: I'm not that interesting. What we learn now is what

898
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:51,359
Speaker 2: they've been studying is not your eye color, and you know,

899
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 2: necessarily where you live, it's really all your habits, right,

900
00:51:55,440 --> 00:52:00,360
Speaker 2: it's really really studying every single motion you ma, and

901
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:04,320
Speaker 2: it's really ultimately a dollar grab because now the advertising

902
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 2: is getting built for us directly. Now we have pall

903
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 2: and teer Peter Thiel who's doing predictive programming, so somewhere

904
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 2: they are predicting somehow what we will be doing, good

905
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:20,840
Speaker 2: and bad. That technology is being built around us real time.

906
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 2: So we're seeing sort of this all come to this

907
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 2: big head, whether it's in the Epstein files or it's

908
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,720
Speaker 2: on social media, that's coming to a head right now.

909
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:32,840
Speaker 2: It's kind of like the truth is all coming to

910
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:35,239
Speaker 2: the surface and we can all do a proper shakeoff

911
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 2: and you know, get back to you know, the core

912
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 2: values that we all have.

913
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:45,919
Speaker 3: Well, Zuckerberg on the stand, he pushed back on these

914
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:50,240
Speaker 3: claims and on claims that Instagram is addictive, and instead

915
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 3: said the focus is on building a sustainable community. It's

916
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 3: not about maximizing screen time, which of course it is

917
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 3: because again the more screen time.

918
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:00,880
Speaker 2: There was a mandate of twenty four percent increase was

919
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:03,719
Speaker 2: a mandate that was given to the staff. Wow, they

920
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 2: needed an increase twenty four percent, Like that's productivity, right,

921
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:09,920
Speaker 2: So that's not completely uncommon. The guys running a business

922
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 2: but at the same time, if you know that your

923
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 2: business is harming young adults, it's all about the young.

924
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:18,759
Speaker 2: It seems like everywhere we turn, like there's this big

925
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 2: commodity on young children and young adults. It's been happening

926
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 2: right under our noses.

927
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:27,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean more than ten years ago, internal meta

928
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:31,839
Speaker 3: documents showed that there were around four million kids in

929
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 3: the US it's ten and twelve years old who were

930
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 3: on Instagram despite the quote rules that you can't be

931
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 3: on it if you're under thirteen.

932
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:45,920
Speaker 5: But there's the age verification tools.

933
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:50,279
Speaker 3: There's one hundred million ways to get around them, right right,

934
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 3: And they actually weren't even added until twenty nineteen.

935
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 2: So four years after they knew.

936
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:58,800
Speaker 4: They still Oh so they knew, and they still didn't

937
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:01,319
Speaker 4: put anything into put anything in.

938
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:04,360
Speaker 2: No, no, not even the smallest tried. You know how

939
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:06,799
Speaker 2: much money they were making. And not to go back

940
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:09,880
Speaker 2: to the Epstein files, but it's the same rub. You know,

941
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 2: they knew that people were getting hurt, they knew girls

942
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 2: were getting harmed, and they did nothing. You know, how

943
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 2: many people could have been saved, thousands of girls and

944
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:21,279
Speaker 2: the Epstein files could have been spared had anybody just

945
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 2: been actionable when Tina Farmer made the first complaint thirty

946
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 2: years prior. In this case, we're seeing four hundred people,

947
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 2: you know, saying loudly that their lives are being affected

948
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 2: poorly because of social media. They could have made those changes.

949
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:39,799
Speaker 2: It's okay, things change, things grow, you evolve. You know,

950
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 2: maybe Mark Zuckerberg started with the best of intentions and

951
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:45,839
Speaker 2: it turned into something bigger, and with that there's more

952
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:47,160
Speaker 2: guard rails needed.

953
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 4: And all your point. Like, it's like the tobacco industry,

954
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 4: it's like they knew what was going on and they

955
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 4: let it happen because we're making so much money. So

956
00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 4: it's it's the exact same scenario. It's like, we're making

957
00:54:58,160 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 4: a ton of money, why are we going to make

958
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 4: these changes?

959
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:03,839
Speaker 2: We not only did they know, they actively promoted it,

960
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:06,959
Speaker 2: and we're seeing that as well. So in this case

961
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:09,879
Speaker 2: with social media, it's like social media is everywhere. It's

962
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 2: literally aimed toward the youngest generation. And he couldn't really

963
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:17,400
Speaker 2: deny that there's something addictive to it, that that was

964
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 2: built into the machinery. There's been so many whistleblowers that

965
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 2: have said that.

966
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:22,960
Speaker 4: And let's be honest, if you get a ten year

967
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 4: old hooked. That's great. Now we've got to have them

968
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:26,320
Speaker 4: for the customer for life.

969
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:29,759
Speaker 2: So you've got a customer for life exactly. It's an

970
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 2: advertiser's dream. Oh absolutely.

971
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 3: And these the plaintiffs argue that Meta and many other

972
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:42,719
Speaker 3: tech companies, they're literally designing apps like digital casinos to

973
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:45,080
Speaker 3: encourage compulsive behavior.

974
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 2: And I mean that's what it is.

975
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:54,040
Speaker 3: Think incidentally or anecdotally, how many people in tech who

976
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 3: work and have built these who have said, oh, I

977
00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:00,640
Speaker 3: do not allow my children to have phones them.

978
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 2: Every one of them. Yeah, I think the bigger question

979
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:06,239
Speaker 2: would be name one that does not do that?

980
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:07,840
Speaker 6: Right?

981
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:11,560
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And the trial it went into a whole bunch

982
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 3: of things, including Meta's decisions about cosmetic and surgery filters,

983
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 3: which there's been studies that they harm teenage girl's self image.

984
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:27,560
Speaker 3: And also I would go beyond also boys as well

985
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:30,400
Speaker 3: as I brought up in cells before, but this we

986
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 3: did a deep dive into that and social media.

987
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:36,839
Speaker 2: You can really go down the.

988
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:40,400
Speaker 3: Rabbit hole and have your whole self worth and identity

989
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:44,360
Speaker 3: just peeled away kind of bit by bit by seeing

990
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 3: you could be better this way, and you could be better.

991
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:50,880
Speaker 2: This way if only you were this way, you'd be better.

992
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:56,919
Speaker 3: So Zuckerberg and the trial, he defended the filters said

993
00:56:56,920 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 3: their free expression, did acknowledge. There was a little disagreement,

994
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 3: including from VP Margaret Stewart, so people were pushing back.

995
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:11,400
Speaker 3: But also, you know, just said that they want to

996
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 3: be authentic, direct, and human. So he was really just

997
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 3: throwing out a bunch of words, is what I heard.

998
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 3: And I don't know how you fight all these facts.

999
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 3: But there's also a parallel New Mexico trial. I don't

1000
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 3: know if you guys were familiar, No, and it's being

1001
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 3: led by an Attorney General Torres, and that case alleges

1002
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:38,920
Speaker 3: that Meta failed to protect children from online predators and

1003
00:57:39,160 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 3: highlighted nationwide scrutiny of social media companies.

1004
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 2: So I mean, it's true. It's all slightly connected though too,

1005
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:49,520
Speaker 2: because again we're talking about some like again sex trafficking.

1006
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 2: It's all full circle. But again, this connectivity and having

1007
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:56,960
Speaker 2: access to photographs of everybody in our country's kids. And

1008
00:57:57,080 --> 00:58:01,200
Speaker 2: even if Facebook or Instagram or Meta was started on

1009
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 2: the concept of staying connected, you know, it's it's done

1010
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:09,280
Speaker 2: anything but that it's become this curated fake version, the

1011
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:12,920
Speaker 2: opposite of authentic is really what many of these you

1012
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 2: know sites have turned into. Right. We all curate the

1013
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 2: best moments of our lives where we look our prettiest

1014
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 2: and put that up there out of a sense of pride.

1015
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 2: But you know that's not Monday through Thursday when you're

1016
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 2: you know, in a breakfast and a side pony living

1017
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 2: in the real world. You know. But again, like I

1018
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:34,000
Speaker 2: think that's the biggest thing. That's like going to be

1019
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 2: our greatest commodity will be just by being yourself. It's okay,

1020
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 2: the uncurated version of you is perfect actually as it is,

1021
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 2: and anyone who's told you otherwise turns out there has

1022
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 2: a joke. Even.

1023
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:55,720
Speaker 3: One thing I do want to note this is this

1024
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 3: is a civil case. It's not a criminal case. And

1025
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:06,400
Speaker 3: the plaint they're claiming negligence, product liability, misrepresentation, and breach

1026
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:07,560
Speaker 3: of duty of care.

1027
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:12,160
Speaker 2: So we will see how they how this goes the jury.

1028
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 3: They have to decide if Meta YouTube and others are

1029
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:19,960
Speaker 3: liable and if damages or other changes should be put

1030
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 3: forth to protect children.

1031
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:25,000
Speaker 2: If that's one did this is a very similar too.

1032
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:27,280
Speaker 2: There's two sides to this, because the other argument to

1033
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:29,960
Speaker 2: this would be similar to how it was when it

1034
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:32,680
Speaker 2: was like the grunge movement and the you know, the

1035
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:36,760
Speaker 2: songs were to sit satanic. The music was making all

1036
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 2: these crimes happen, and you know that became the big

1037
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:42,080
Speaker 2: conversation of the moment. And what was that in the

1038
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:48,960
Speaker 2: eighties where it was you know, all those exactly satan

1039
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:53,440
Speaker 2: wearing big satanic panic exactly. So you know, this does happen.

1040
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:56,800
Speaker 2: It's cyclical. But to hear that there, you know, may

1041
00:59:56,840 --> 01:00:00,960
Speaker 2: have been very large groups of employees at many of

1042
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:04,880
Speaker 2: these large tech companies and their goal was to hook

1043
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 2: kids and to make these addictive platforms is pretty upsetting

1044
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:13,480
Speaker 2: because that was the exact opposite of the messaging.

1045
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:19,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, total missed representation. So we'll be watching this case

1046
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:22,400
Speaker 3: for sure. Speaking of Jerry, there's a lot of weight

1047
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:25,240
Speaker 3: on these jurors shoulders.

1048
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:28,919
Speaker 2: Should we hit a talk back real quick? Yeah?

1049
01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:30,240
Speaker 4: Sure, A couple about.

1050
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 10: That, Hi, true friend tonight, friends, I want to thank

1051
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:35,440
Speaker 10: you for all the work that you do, the segments

1052
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:38,760
Speaker 10: that you do about keeping us safe, especially like roadblocks.

1053
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:41,120
Speaker 10: I wanted to let you know that when my daughter

1054
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 10: was younger and she got her phone for the first time,

1055
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 10: we didn't allow her to have a social media or roadblocks. However,

1056
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 10: we did allow her to have Pinterest, and there was

1057
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:53,120
Speaker 10: someone trying to contact her through Pinterest asking all sorts

1058
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:56,840
Speaker 10: of inappropriate questions. Thank you for all you do. Love

1059
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 10: you more, Oh.

1060
01:00:58,520 --> 01:01:02,920
Speaker 2: We love you. Horrible thing to hear Pinterest.

1061
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:06,360
Speaker 4: I mean that seems like the most wholesome in the I.

1062
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:11,360
Speaker 2: Mean like it's really just unbelievable that someone would stoop

1063
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 2: that loaw to go to Pinterest to be a creep

1064
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 2: to you know, our lovely caller's daughter.

1065
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:19,840
Speaker 3: Now, thank you for sharing that. I mean that really

1066
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:22,520
Speaker 3: puts a highlight. I mean that surprised me. The most

1067
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:27,959
Speaker 3: wholesome and wholesome Pinterest. I don't know, there's no.

1068
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:29,760
Speaker 5: Well, I we'll say this.

1069
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:32,200
Speaker 2: It's very good. Thank you for sharing that story. Because

1070
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:35,640
Speaker 2: I think we're now also crowdsourcing for solution. So we

1071
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:41,960
Speaker 2: see how effective crowdsourcing for fear and scary and terrifying

1072
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:45,200
Speaker 2: can be. But you know, the true crime audience, specifically

1073
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:48,640
Speaker 2: all of us, you know, we can put our brains

1074
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:52,920
Speaker 2: on something. We can you know, sift through information and

1075
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 2: see things in its totality, like the Epstein files or

1076
01:01:56,680 --> 01:01:58,720
Speaker 2: any of the cases that we're working on now. So

1077
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:01,000
Speaker 2: I think it's really helpful that we're talking about things

1078
01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:03,680
Speaker 2: like even the grooming stuff and like how to keep

1079
01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:05,919
Speaker 2: our kids safer, Like they don't know what to look for. Heck,

1080
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:08,680
Speaker 2: until two weeks ago, I wouldn't have known what to

1081
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:10,480
Speaker 2: look for. So do you know what I mean? This

1082
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 2: is like big new information. So I think we have

1083
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:16,800
Speaker 2: to all be sharing solutions. So that's super helpful.

1084
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 4: I really a lot from this show. I was I'm

1085
01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 4: just going to say, I have a good friend, I'm

1086
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:27,480
Speaker 4: his daughter's godfather, and I've learned all of these protective tips.

1087
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:29,640
Speaker 4: So he just got our new laptop, so I typed

1088
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:31,160
Speaker 4: up a list told him this is what I've learned

1089
01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:34,160
Speaker 4: from this show. Take this, pass it along. He's like, wow,

1090
01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:36,720
Speaker 4: you really this is amazing. This is helpful.

1091
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:39,480
Speaker 2: So we have to all cover our cameras too. That's

1092
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:41,840
Speaker 2: another one. I haven't done that yet. They're all watching.

1093
01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:45,880
Speaker 3: Comming up, we're going to talk about a high school

1094
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:51,880
Speaker 3: principal who hypnotized students and within weeks three teens died.

1095
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 5: What does he happened? Yeah, so keep it here. True

1096
01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:57,000
Speaker 5: Crime Tonight.

1097
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:10,920
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio we're talking

1098
01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:13,640
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Steph here with Courtney

1099
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:16,640
Speaker 2: and taha, body, we miss you and hope you're having

1100
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:20,640
Speaker 2: a beautiful evening. This evening. I guess how could she be.

1101
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:24,000
Speaker 2: She would not be having any fun without us. Yeah,

1102
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:26,080
Speaker 2: so we're talking about a lot of talk packs. Should

1103
01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:27,680
Speaker 2: we go to another one right now?

1104
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:28,720
Speaker 11: Yeah?

1105
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:33,560
Speaker 2: Let's do Oh you know what, I don't have one, presure.

1106
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:36,200
Speaker 2: I know what I did do, though, But I'm glad

1107
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:39,120
Speaker 2: that we have this quick second though, because America's Next

1108
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:42,160
Speaker 2: Top Model, the documentary that you've been talking about, Courtney,

1109
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:43,680
Speaker 2: everybody is talking about it.

1110
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 5: I know it's not a crime, but it's a little

1111
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:47,800
Speaker 5: bit of a crime.

1112
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:53,480
Speaker 4: They crossed some lines that almost see. I just started

1113
01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:55,480
Speaker 4: it this afternoon, like I was like, okay, I got

1114
01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:57,560
Speaker 4: a few minutes. I want to watch it, and I'm

1115
01:03:57,600 --> 01:04:00,400
Speaker 4: already sucked in because, like you, Courtney, I grew up

1116
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:02,840
Speaker 4: in the era where we watched that show, but now

1117
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:05,720
Speaker 4: when you look at it in this sort of modern

1118
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:12,400
Speaker 4: day lens, the challenges were a little inappropriate, like the appropriate.

1119
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:15,160
Speaker 2: But the girl they cut the girl's hair, wasn't it.

1120
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:17,440
Speaker 2: Molly On my other show, Southern.

1121
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:18,160
Speaker 5: Charm, southern charm.

1122
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:21,120
Speaker 2: Yes, they cut her hair. She had this beautiful long

1123
01:04:21,120 --> 01:04:23,560
Speaker 2: blonde hair, and then they cut her hair like above

1124
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:26,320
Speaker 2: the ears, like the worst haircut you've ever seen unless

1125
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 2: you're a supermodel, which she was so beautiful, but she

1126
01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:33,480
Speaker 2: was hysterical crying, and then they cut her that night.

1127
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:38,840
Speaker 3: That's right, I mean haircuts. They had dental surgery and yeah,

1128
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:41,680
Speaker 3: that's right, almost against people's gill.

1129
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:45,200
Speaker 4: The gap. Yeah, they gave her a gap.

1130
01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:46,320
Speaker 2: I love the game.

1131
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:50,120
Speaker 4: It's great if you were born with it, but now

1132
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:53,800
Speaker 4: you create one on a they gave a fake gap.

1133
01:04:54,120 --> 01:04:59,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but with surgical tools, like oh yeah, no,

1134
01:04:59,640 --> 01:05:04,080
Speaker 3: it's it's real twisted. I finished the doc I started

1135
01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:06,919
Speaker 3: at the afternoon. I found it and I just.

1136
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:10,280
Speaker 4: That's gonna be my I'm gonna love that. I'll watch that.

1137
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:12,280
Speaker 4: But we're the race. That what we were just talking

1138
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:15,520
Speaker 4: about too. They swapped races or they had people do

1139
01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:22,240
Speaker 4: differ different ethnicities, which in this blackface with super that's

1140
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:23,760
Speaker 4: I cannot believe.

1141
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:30,280
Speaker 3: I mean two times exactly why challenge, I guess at.

1142
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:32,840
Speaker 4: The time because it was coming from Tyra and she had,

1143
01:05:33,240 --> 01:05:36,200
Speaker 4: you know, a wide range of races and everyone was

1144
01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:38,640
Speaker 4: doing a different race maybe didn't seem as odd, but

1145
01:05:38,680 --> 01:05:40,600
Speaker 4: I can't figure out why I thought that was Okay.

1146
01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:44,960
Speaker 2: Then I don't know, so I'm like disappointed that Tira

1147
01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:48,600
Speaker 2: is everybody not liking Tyra anymore. I always loved her,

1148
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 2: I don't know. I just like loved her as like

1149
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:56,440
Speaker 2: a pretty, pretty, beautiful, tall supermodel. I wasn't a huge

1150
01:05:56,440 --> 01:05:59,960
Speaker 2: America's not top model watcher, so that wasn't my point,

1151
01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:03,240
Speaker 2: and that you know, I love my reality poisons, but

1152
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:05,760
Speaker 2: that was not one of them. So I don't know her,

1153
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:08,960
Speaker 2: And all I've seen on social media today is the

1154
01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:12,000
Speaker 2: men of the show kind of not that into her.

1155
01:06:12,680 --> 01:06:15,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's what it sounds like. It sounds like

1156
01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:17,920
Speaker 4: things ended poorly, now, Courtney, you've seen the whole thing.

1157
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:20,920
Speaker 4: I have not, so's assuming based on the little clips

1158
01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:23,840
Speaker 4: I've seen. So but you know, it was a business

1159
01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:27,360
Speaker 4: and we've talked about that before. You know, sometimes you

1160
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:30,760
Speaker 4: have to cut ties with certain people and things shift

1161
01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:32,000
Speaker 4: and change for whatever reason.

1162
01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:34,320
Speaker 2: So it's one of them had a stroke and she's

1163
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:36,040
Speaker 2: never visited now.

1164
01:06:36,040 --> 01:06:38,280
Speaker 4: That I didn't know, Okay, you gave that.

1165
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:41,840
Speaker 3: I was very surprised you gave away a little bit

1166
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:43,840
Speaker 3: of a surprise inadvertently.

1167
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:47,880
Speaker 4: Oh okay, well that went off unless.

1168
01:06:47,560 --> 01:06:50,080
Speaker 5: You had that information, taha, if I know not.

1169
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:52,800
Speaker 4: But I don't know which person, so so sti't tell

1170
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:53,080
Speaker 4: me which.

1171
01:06:53,240 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 2: Okay, we'll cut that out of the podcast.

1172
01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:59,080
Speaker 5: Okay, But so this all came to bear.

1173
01:06:59,120 --> 01:07:01,920
Speaker 3: So this was if you're not as old as we are,

1174
01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:04,280
Speaker 3: This was back in what it had to be a

1175
01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:05,440
Speaker 3: two thousand and after.

1176
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:10,960
Speaker 5: But then the resurgence came during.

1177
01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:14,560
Speaker 3: COVID, which stuff you mentioned before, and then people started

1178
01:07:14,600 --> 01:07:17,200
Speaker 3: watching it and losing their minds and saying things like,

1179
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:21,120
Speaker 3: how are you making people do blackface? And how are

1180
01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:27,400
Speaker 3: you like circling people's fat on a runway?

1181
01:07:27,600 --> 01:07:29,600
Speaker 2: Can you imagine?

1182
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:32,960
Speaker 3: It's so looking at it through the lens of what

1183
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:37,320
Speaker 3: we now know, which is as a powerful lens. But

1184
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:39,680
Speaker 3: I yeah, so I'll be curious. I don't know if

1185
01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:42,000
Speaker 3: you'll have interest to watch it, Stephanie, but oh I.

1186
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:43,840
Speaker 2: Will totally be interested to watch it. I want to

1187
01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:44,440
Speaker 2: watch it tonight.

1188
01:07:44,840 --> 01:07:47,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, let's let's all circle back to that one, because

1189
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:47,840
Speaker 4: I think.

1190
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:49,600
Speaker 3: Let's circle back because I have I have things to

1191
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:50,360
Speaker 3: say about Tara.

1192
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:53,919
Speaker 4: Now you also have things to say about some sort

1193
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:58,760
Speaker 4: of hypnotized situation that happened in Florida. Do we want

1194
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:00,360
Speaker 4: to talk about that? Because that crazy?

1195
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:02,000
Speaker 2: What a crazy case? This is?

1196
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:04,840
Speaker 3: This case blew my mind. I don't know if we're

1197
01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:09,160
Speaker 3: thinking producer EVA, producer Taha, or the combos rios for

1198
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:10,880
Speaker 3: finding this, but.

1199
01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:13,600
Speaker 5: It ends real sad.

1200
01:08:14,880 --> 01:08:21,519
Speaker 3: Three teenagers ended up dead out of Northport, Florida. And

1201
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:24,320
Speaker 3: whether it's coincident or not, it happened after they were

1202
01:08:24,439 --> 01:08:28,439
Speaker 3: hypnotized by their principal at the time, a guy named

1203
01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:35,320
Speaker 3: doctor George Kenny. And so this happened back in twenty

1204
01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:38,720
Speaker 3: eleven and just came had a resurgence because it was

1205
01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:42,360
Speaker 3: featured on the show called The Curious Case of So

1206
01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:48,840
Speaker 3: these three students went to high school, Marcus Freeman, Wesley McKinley,

1207
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:53,800
Speaker 3: and Brittany Palombo, and they died within weeks of each

1208
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:56,120
Speaker 3: other at the same high school. And each one had

1209
01:08:56,200 --> 01:09:03,360
Speaker 3: undergone private hypnosis sessions with their principal. Who wonder why ps,

1210
01:09:03,400 --> 01:09:08,559
Speaker 3: he wasn't a licensed hypnotherapist either. What so Yeah, this

1211
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:13,680
Speaker 3: former principle, he attends a big demonstration about hypnosis. I

1212
01:09:13,680 --> 01:09:18,080
Speaker 3: guess he gets very excited about it because despite never

1213
01:09:18,160 --> 01:09:25,400
Speaker 3: getting licensed, he started having sessions with his students, and

1214
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:29,479
Speaker 3: one of them ended up testifying that he was given

1215
01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:32,759
Speaker 3: what was he was told was sunblock to apply to himself,

1216
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:35,000
Speaker 3: but he woke up with lipsticks smeared all over his

1217
01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:37,840
Speaker 3: face and had no memory of it.

1218
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:43,440
Speaker 4: I didn't know you even had to become a licensed hypnotist,

1219
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:44,880
Speaker 4: to be honest, I thought it was just like a

1220
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:47,360
Speaker 4: you know, like a magician, Like you just learned how

1221
01:09:47,360 --> 01:09:49,600
Speaker 4: to do the trick and you can do it. So

1222
01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:51,280
Speaker 4: this was fascinating to be that you had.

1223
01:09:51,280 --> 01:09:53,880
Speaker 2: Well, you know, you're giving somebody permission to enter your brain,

1224
01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:54,600
Speaker 2: I think.

1225
01:09:55,520 --> 01:10:00,480
Speaker 4: Which now in retrospect, now, yeah.

1226
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:04,360
Speaker 2: So this teacher, this principal, who has no license, starts

1227
01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:09,320
Speaker 2: hypnotizing his students, and then those students are led to

1228
01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:14,360
Speaker 2: an untimely, terrible, tragic suicide, and now he's standing trial

1229
01:10:14,439 --> 01:10:15,200
Speaker 2: for their deaths.

1230
01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:20,040
Speaker 3: So pretty much. But I'll clean up a little bit,

1231
01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:24,160
Speaker 3: but yeah, yes, pretty much. So this guy, this principle,

1232
01:10:24,240 --> 01:10:27,080
Speaker 3: over the course of about two years, he hypnotized at

1233
01:10:27,200 --> 01:10:31,240
Speaker 3: least seventy five people, including a bunch of students, athletes

1234
01:10:31,320 --> 01:10:34,439
Speaker 3: and staff and parents.

1235
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:39,080
Speaker 2: So really had a great weekend at that convention. I mean,

1236
01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:44,760
Speaker 2: we rimetized everybody since I'm good at this. Yes, it

1237
01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:45,719
Speaker 2: seems lunatic.

1238
01:10:47,080 --> 01:10:49,839
Speaker 3: But one of the victims, seventeen year old Brittany Palumbo,

1239
01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:55,040
Speaker 3: she attended at least one recorded hypnosis session and it

1240
01:10:55,080 --> 01:10:58,800
Speaker 3: was to improve her SAT scores and to reduce anxiety

1241
01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:04,559
Speaker 3: about getting into college. Well, she died by suicide at

1242
01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:09,280
Speaker 3: her home after retaking the SAT and becoming distraught over

1243
01:11:09,320 --> 01:11:14,160
Speaker 3: her scores. Wow, so you know, is it a direct tie?

1244
01:11:14,240 --> 01:11:16,559
Speaker 3: Is it a coincidence? But that is the thing that happened.

1245
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:20,920
Speaker 3: Victim two out of three Marcus Freeman. He was sixteen

1246
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:25,599
Speaker 3: years old. He had undergone frequent it was called Friday

1247
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:30,840
Speaker 3: hypnosiscessions with the principal to enhance his football performance into

1248
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:36,599
Speaker 3: block pain and he sadly died in a car crash

1249
01:11:37,240 --> 01:11:40,880
Speaker 3: after he veered into a tree. His girlfriend survived with

1250
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:41,880
Speaker 3: serious injuries.

1251
01:11:42,280 --> 01:11:42,559
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1252
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:43,840
Speaker 4: Wow.

1253
01:11:44,280 --> 01:11:50,240
Speaker 3: And then less than a month after that, another victim,

1254
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:54,640
Speaker 3: sixteen year old Wesley McKinley, was a musician preparing for

1255
01:11:54,680 --> 01:11:59,360
Speaker 3: a Juilliard audition and was hypnotized and he died the

1256
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:03,479
Speaker 3: next day. What and his mother described him afterward as

1257
01:12:03,680 --> 01:12:07,519
Speaker 3: quote almost zombie like and said he behaves strangely he

1258
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:12,559
Speaker 3: was skipping the number seven when counting, he wasn't responding.

1259
01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:19,760
Speaker 2: To his name, and he died by Yeah, died by suicide.

1260
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:22,720
Speaker 4: Wow, that's horrible.

1261
01:12:23,040 --> 01:12:25,679
Speaker 2: Isn't this a terrible story? This is like the most

1262
01:12:25,680 --> 01:12:27,800
Speaker 2: horrible story I've ever heard in my life. You think

1263
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:30,479
Speaker 2: about it, You're right, taha. I've never really had to

1264
01:12:30,479 --> 01:12:34,440
Speaker 2: consider the idea of somebody being licensed versus not being licensed.

1265
01:12:35,200 --> 01:12:37,960
Speaker 2: I'm even thinking back into my own this is more

1266
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:41,880
Speaker 2: anecdotal personal and again this is probably twenty years ago.

1267
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:46,320
Speaker 2: But you know, I think I like found some hypnotist

1268
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:48,920
Speaker 2: like on the back of a napkin or a phone

1269
01:12:48,920 --> 01:12:51,400
Speaker 2: book and when and I think it was to quit smoking,

1270
01:12:52,080 --> 01:12:55,120
Speaker 2: and it totally worked. It was a total random person's

1271
01:12:55,160 --> 01:12:58,720
Speaker 2: house in like Woodland Hills, California, And I just like

1272
01:12:58,800 --> 01:13:01,520
Speaker 2: went to this random guy's house, so let him hypnotize.

1273
01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:04,320
Speaker 4: Me, and did you stop smoking after? Did it work?

1274
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:07,840
Speaker 2: It? Kind of, it actually did. But I also could

1275
01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:09,880
Speaker 2: have just like wanted it to work. And that's all

1276
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:12,840
Speaker 2: I He could have, you know, just like pushed straight

1277
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:14,599
Speaker 2: up lied to me, and I would have been probably

1278
01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:17,639
Speaker 2: you know, it would have could have been a placebo effects.

1279
01:13:18,040 --> 01:13:20,439
Speaker 2: But my guess bigger is the issue that I would

1280
01:13:20,479 --> 01:13:23,000
Speaker 2: go to some random person's house out of a phone

1281
01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:26,920
Speaker 2: book and have them have access to my brain.

1282
01:13:27,160 --> 01:13:30,240
Speaker 4: Brain. Yeah, you know, you're like conscious.

1283
01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:32,040
Speaker 2: These poor kids are coming out. They're like, I want

1284
01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:33,800
Speaker 2: to do well in Juilliard and instead I'm going to

1285
01:13:33,840 --> 01:13:36,760
Speaker 2: take my life. Something's clearly happening when they're in an

1286
01:13:36,840 --> 01:13:41,479
Speaker 2: unconscious state. Wow, So what's the end goal? Is there? Is?

1287
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:45,599
Speaker 2: Is now what happens to him? So here's the legal fallout.

1288
01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:51,160
Speaker 3: Again, this happened in twenty eleven, and after the third death,

1289
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:56,120
Speaker 3: it's hard to swallow. This former principle was placed on

1290
01:13:56,520 --> 01:14:02,000
Speaker 3: haide administrative leave. I take it with that, And then

1291
01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:07,960
Speaker 3: the Sarasota County School Board hired an investigation agency as

1292
01:14:07,960 --> 01:14:11,240
Speaker 3: well as having the Florida Department of Health investigate these

1293
01:14:11,240 --> 01:14:16,120
Speaker 3: allegations that he practiced hypnosis without a healthcare license.

1294
01:14:16,320 --> 01:14:18,200
Speaker 2: So to your earlier point.

1295
01:14:18,040 --> 01:14:21,320
Speaker 3: Dah, Yeah, I think you can probably do it as

1296
01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:24,639
Speaker 3: a party trick quote, but it becomes an issue if

1297
01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:26,679
Speaker 3: you're brought into court.

1298
01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:29,880
Speaker 2: And he would say I think also, hey, I did

1299
01:14:29,920 --> 01:14:32,519
Speaker 2: it to like ninety people. And there was these three

1300
01:14:33,000 --> 01:14:36,120
Speaker 2: tragedies that happened in and around the area they were

1301
01:14:36,200 --> 01:14:38,840
Speaker 2: cure is at the same skool. Who's to say they

1302
01:14:38,840 --> 01:14:41,960
Speaker 2: weren't all suffering from the same heartbreak or the same

1303
01:14:42,280 --> 01:14:46,320
Speaker 2: school pressures. It's just, you know, we're the odds because

1304
01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:50,840
Speaker 2: many people that I hypnotized did not meet an untimely death.

1305
01:14:51,360 --> 01:14:52,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, and on point.

1306
01:14:53,400 --> 01:14:55,560
Speaker 5: Absolutely, And again there's.

1307
01:14:55,360 --> 01:14:57,880
Speaker 2: You know, his point. I'm not saying who's right or around.

1308
01:14:57,960 --> 01:14:59,840
Speaker 4: I'm just right right, but I can see that side

1309
01:14:59,880 --> 01:15:01,840
Speaker 4: of it as well. That makes sense.

1310
01:15:02,760 --> 01:15:07,840
Speaker 3: And ultimately, a year after June twenty twelve, this guy

1311
01:15:07,920 --> 01:15:12,600
Speaker 3: pleaded no contest to practicing therapeutic hypnosis without a license,

1312
01:15:12,680 --> 01:15:16,280
Speaker 3: which is a misdemeanor, and he did this to avoid

1313
01:15:16,479 --> 01:15:21,760
Speaker 3: felony charges of practicing therapy without a license. So it

1314
01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:25,680
Speaker 3: was a little bit of intricate legal work there, but

1315
01:15:25,800 --> 01:15:28,280
Speaker 3: ultimately not much happened to him. The guy resigned, he

1316
01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:32,760
Speaker 3: was sentenced to two consecutive six month probation terms, and

1317
01:15:33,720 --> 01:15:36,800
Speaker 3: that's it, Okay, never served any time. No, No, it

1318
01:15:36,840 --> 01:15:43,360
Speaker 3: was probation community service. And then ultimately the families each

1319
01:15:44,760 --> 01:15:50,000
Speaker 3: the three families, they received that statutory maximum settlement of

1320
01:15:50,040 --> 01:15:53,320
Speaker 3: two hundred thousand dollars each, but that was due to

1321
01:15:53,400 --> 01:15:59,800
Speaker 3: a lawsuit against the school board. Not so that's that

1322
01:15:59,880 --> 01:16:03,040
Speaker 3: was the end of this. But you know, again, is

1323
01:16:03,080 --> 01:16:03,920
Speaker 3: it coincidence?

1324
01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:07,680
Speaker 4: Is it right? You can't determine which direction it would be,

1325
01:16:07,720 --> 01:16:08,519
Speaker 4: but I don't.

1326
01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:11,520
Speaker 2: Know, I don't even qualify that. That's a tough one. Yeah,

1327
01:16:11,600 --> 01:16:13,559
Speaker 2: and how would you sue the school? Oh? Because the

1328
01:16:13,600 --> 01:16:16,120
Speaker 2: school this is the principal, and the principle was clearly

1329
01:16:16,160 --> 01:16:19,120
Speaker 2: doing hypnosis on Fridays to what seemed like the whole

1330
01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:20,480
Speaker 2: school and teachers.

1331
01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:25,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean, why are you having a kid

1332
01:16:25,479 --> 01:16:27,600
Speaker 3: lie down or sit down with their eyes closed in

1333
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:29,479
Speaker 3: your office for an hour alone anyway?

1334
01:16:29,640 --> 01:16:32,720
Speaker 2: Like that's so you can access their deepest thoughts.

1335
01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:35,360
Speaker 4: Right right, like that You're going to forget about what

1336
01:16:35,400 --> 01:16:37,559
Speaker 4: I'm telling you after you hear this chime like all

1337
01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:41,479
Speaker 4: the seash Yeah. See, seems weird, But I Eve and

1338
01:16:41,520 --> 01:16:43,720
Speaker 4: I were talking about this earlier, Like I was one

1339
01:16:43,720 --> 01:16:46,760
Speaker 4: of those skeptical people that have always felt thought hypnosis

1340
01:16:46,840 --> 01:16:49,760
Speaker 4: was kind of a ruse, like it wasn't real. Like

1341
01:16:49,800 --> 01:16:52,400
Speaker 4: when I would go to these you know shows or whatever,

1342
01:16:52,479 --> 01:16:54,880
Speaker 4: everyone come on stage and now you're going to play

1343
01:16:54,920 --> 01:16:55,439
Speaker 4: like a chicken.

1344
01:16:55,840 --> 01:16:56,280
Speaker 12: I did.

1345
01:16:56,439 --> 01:16:59,000
Speaker 4: I never really believed they were real but I guess

1346
01:16:59,040 --> 01:17:03,360
Speaker 4: they're there is a possibility that there's some truth to them,

1347
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:04,640
Speaker 4: truth to this, I don't know.

1348
01:17:05,360 --> 01:17:10,000
Speaker 3: Probably Charlatan's everywhere too, you know, I'm sure it's both.

1349
01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:12,519
Speaker 3: But even Adam, do you want to share your what

1350
01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:13,880
Speaker 3: you said about hypnosis?

1351
01:17:14,240 --> 01:17:19,120
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, I mean the the CIA has experimented with

1352
01:17:19,200 --> 01:17:23,280
Speaker 6: hypnosis for for decades, and I mean there there is

1353
01:17:23,320 --> 01:17:26,880
Speaker 6: a science to it. It's a it's a real thing,

1354
01:17:27,040 --> 01:17:29,400
Speaker 6: you know, and it's kind of freaky when you get

1355
01:17:29,439 --> 01:17:32,920
Speaker 6: into it. I don't know if it principle was trying

1356
01:17:32,920 --> 01:17:36,000
Speaker 6: to accomplish with doing the hypnosis.

1357
01:17:35,520 --> 01:17:37,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, what was the goal? I mean he was getting

1358
01:17:37,240 --> 01:17:40,599
Speaker 2: people into Juilliard or helping her performance.

1359
01:17:40,120 --> 01:17:42,640
Speaker 4: Maybe right, that's like it was a positive Like it

1360
01:17:42,640 --> 01:17:45,000
Speaker 4: feels to me like he was his intentions were good,

1361
01:17:45,080 --> 01:17:47,599
Speaker 4: like I'm going to help you not have pain, help

1362
01:17:47,640 --> 01:17:52,479
Speaker 4: you get better SAT scores, but maybe in his not

1363
01:17:52,960 --> 01:17:55,640
Speaker 4: prepared properly, like it was the most important thing to

1364
01:17:55,680 --> 01:17:58,240
Speaker 4: her to have the best ACAT score. So afterwards, it's

1365
01:17:58,240 --> 01:18:01,240
Speaker 4: sort of like my life is pointless at this point. Now,

1366
01:18:01,520 --> 01:18:04,080
Speaker 4: who knows, I can't see so much stress?

1367
01:18:04,760 --> 01:18:14,360
Speaker 3: Oh, so much stress? No those are yeah, no, no,

1368
01:18:15,240 --> 01:18:15,519
Speaker 3: oh we.

1369
01:18:15,439 --> 01:18:17,400
Speaker 2: Don't have time for another talkback, but we will when

1370
01:18:17,400 --> 01:18:21,360
Speaker 2: we come back. We will, we will when we come back, correct.

1371
01:18:21,000 --> 01:18:21,840
Speaker 4: And we will.

1372
01:18:21,960 --> 01:18:23,720
Speaker 2: We have actually lots What's that.

1373
01:18:24,439 --> 01:18:26,559
Speaker 4: I was going to say? And I think we might

1374
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:29,880
Speaker 4: even have a caller that's going to join us when

1375
01:18:29,920 --> 01:18:32,519
Speaker 4: we come back. I'm getting a word that someone wants

1376
01:18:32,560 --> 01:18:34,679
Speaker 4: to talk to us and has some insight on something.

1377
01:18:34,760 --> 01:18:38,240
Speaker 4: So that's all stick around and everyone let's hear what

1378
01:18:38,280 --> 01:18:41,040
Speaker 4: they have to say, and some other talkbacks. You're listening

1379
01:18:41,040 --> 01:18:42,639
Speaker 4: to true crime all the time.

1380
01:18:43,280 --> 01:18:56,600
Speaker 2: Stay here, Welcome back to true crime tonight and iHeartRadio.

1381
01:18:56,760 --> 01:18:59,720
Speaker 2: We're talking true crime all the time. I'm Steph here

1382
01:18:59,760 --> 01:19:03,840
Speaker 2: with Courtney and Taha and we it seems has a

1383
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:05,160
Speaker 2: have a caller on the phone.

1384
01:19:06,040 --> 01:19:07,600
Speaker 4: Oh hello, is that?

1385
01:19:08,040 --> 01:19:08,439
Speaker 2: Do I hear?

1386
01:19:08,520 --> 01:19:10,240
Speaker 4: Crocker is on the line with us?

1387
01:19:11,479 --> 01:19:12,559
Speaker 12: Yeah? I am what do you?

1388
01:19:14,040 --> 01:19:14,560
Speaker 13: Crocker?

1389
01:19:15,240 --> 01:19:15,960
Speaker 4: How are you?

1390
01:19:17,680 --> 01:19:23,560
Speaker 12: I'm doing all right except that we got about in

1391
01:19:24,240 --> 01:19:27,240
Speaker 12: US terms, we got three feet of snow today.

1392
01:19:30,600 --> 01:19:33,880
Speaker 2: No, Crocker, that's too much snow. That's too much?

1393
01:19:34,760 --> 01:19:36,639
Speaker 13: Is it that way too much?

1394
01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:38,960
Speaker 2: Do you have electricity? I assume.

1395
01:19:40,280 --> 01:19:40,800
Speaker 7: We do.

1396
01:19:40,920 --> 01:19:44,639
Speaker 12: Yeah, we I did lose power actually, so it's been

1397
01:19:44,840 --> 01:19:45,559
Speaker 12: over two.

1398
01:19:45,439 --> 01:19:50,880
Speaker 13: Days so it was yesterday and today I.

1399
01:19:50,800 --> 01:19:53,480
Speaker 12: Did only lose power just like overnight.

1400
01:19:53,600 --> 01:19:56,120
Speaker 13: It must have just flickered off. So we got a

1401
01:19:56,160 --> 01:19:56,960
Speaker 13: luck this time.

1402
01:19:57,520 --> 01:20:00,839
Speaker 4: Well, thank god. And if I'm not mistake, And Crocker,

1403
01:20:01,120 --> 01:20:03,320
Speaker 4: were you the last time we spoke to you, were

1404
01:20:03,320 --> 01:20:04,160
Speaker 4: you in a hot tub?

1405
01:20:05,479 --> 01:20:05,679
Speaker 7: Yeah?

1406
01:20:05,720 --> 01:20:10,679
Speaker 12: I'm I'm in the same hot tub right now, Crocker.

1407
01:20:11,680 --> 01:20:15,160
Speaker 2: Don't cry for Crocker Argentina. She's in the hot tub

1408
01:20:15,200 --> 01:20:18,080
Speaker 2: as we speak. Okay, not so bad.

1409
01:20:19,720 --> 01:20:22,400
Speaker 13: My muscles needed muscles.

1410
01:20:23,880 --> 01:20:26,880
Speaker 4: That's good and good. I hope you're relaxing there. So

1411
01:20:26,880 --> 01:20:29,519
Speaker 4: so what's going on? What? What? What are you calling

1412
01:20:29,600 --> 01:20:29,960
Speaker 4: us about?

1413
01:20:30,200 --> 01:20:30,360
Speaker 2: Oh?

1414
01:20:30,439 --> 01:20:32,839
Speaker 12: I've been wanting to call for a couple of weeks,

1415
01:20:33,960 --> 01:20:39,599
Speaker 12: and I know you always there's always conversations in should

1416
01:20:39,680 --> 01:20:42,639
Speaker 12: we be talking about these certain things? Is it too

1417
01:20:42,680 --> 01:20:46,240
Speaker 12: hard to talk about all of that? And I just

1418
01:20:46,280 --> 01:20:49,920
Speaker 12: wanted to call and like express my support and appreciation

1419
01:20:50,400 --> 01:20:52,599
Speaker 12: because I did a hard thing a couple of weeks ago.

1420
01:20:53,400 --> 01:20:59,160
Speaker 12: So there's a little background story. So there is a

1421
01:20:59,320 --> 01:21:02,880
Speaker 12: trot well a trial. It's a senten scene because the

1422
01:21:02,960 --> 01:21:08,439
Speaker 12: person pled. But there is somebody in Newfoundland who pled

1423
01:21:08,840 --> 01:21:13,760
Speaker 12: to fifty four of the over two hundred charges of

1424
01:21:15,040 --> 01:21:21,080
Speaker 12: sexual abuse harassment. Like, it's very extensive and new from

1425
01:21:21,200 --> 01:21:25,920
Speaker 12: Land's a small place. It's big land, math, but small.

1426
01:21:27,200 --> 01:21:29,599
Speaker 12: I've never added somebody on Facebook from here.

1427
01:21:29,520 --> 01:21:31,080
Speaker 13: That I didn't have a mutual friend with.

1428
01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:39,080
Speaker 12: So yeah, there's actually probably I think it's fifteen to

1429
01:21:39,160 --> 01:21:44,200
Speaker 12: twenty survivors that have come forward. And these are mostly

1430
01:21:44,360 --> 01:21:49,599
Speaker 12: children or were children at the time. This person is

1431
01:21:49,640 --> 01:21:55,799
Speaker 12: a teacher and a coach like I am. And yeah,

1432
01:21:55,840 --> 01:21:59,639
Speaker 12: so I mean I never liked this person from the beginning.

1433
01:21:59,720 --> 01:22:03,040
Speaker 12: I remember the first time I met them or came

1434
01:22:03,080 --> 01:22:05,639
Speaker 12: into contact with them, and me and my best friend

1435
01:22:05,760 --> 01:22:06,120
Speaker 12: was like.

1436
01:22:06,040 --> 01:22:08,320
Speaker 13: Do you know who that is? And I was like no,

1437
01:22:08,600 --> 01:22:09,200
Speaker 13: and we were like.

1438
01:22:11,160 --> 01:22:14,559
Speaker 12: We knew there was, you know, the bad gut feeling, right,

1439
01:22:15,800 --> 01:22:19,080
Speaker 12: And I actually couldn't understand why other people didn't get

1440
01:22:19,120 --> 01:22:23,720
Speaker 12: that gut feeling. But I didn't know the extent of

1441
01:22:23,760 --> 01:22:29,599
Speaker 12: what was going on, of course. So even though he's

1442
01:22:29,960 --> 01:22:41,600
Speaker 12: a total meglomaniac, I always knew that when there was

1443
01:22:41,640 --> 01:22:44,360
Speaker 12: any conflict or something that came up that I had

1444
01:22:44,360 --> 01:22:47,040
Speaker 12: to speak with him about, when I ran in with

1445
01:22:47,200 --> 01:22:50,720
Speaker 12: him through the sporting world, that he always got uncomfortable.

1446
01:22:50,920 --> 01:22:54,040
Speaker 12: His face would turn red, he'd get all like jittery

1447
01:22:54,200 --> 01:22:59,240
Speaker 12: and things. So once this like all came out, I

1448
01:22:59,439 --> 01:23:02,360
Speaker 12: just always said, I'm like, I just want to go,

1449
01:23:02,960 --> 01:23:07,200
Speaker 12: and I want to support the survivors and everyone involved,

1450
01:23:07,280 --> 01:23:09,679
Speaker 12: and I want to stand up and I just want

1451
01:23:09,680 --> 01:23:11,559
Speaker 12: to go, and I just want to look at him

1452
01:23:12,000 --> 01:23:14,640
Speaker 12: and I hope I make eye contact with him, and

1453
01:23:14,720 --> 01:23:17,720
Speaker 12: I want to go. I know, and we all know

1454
01:23:17,920 --> 01:23:19,639
Speaker 12: what you did kind of thing.

1455
01:23:21,320 --> 01:23:23,760
Speaker 13: So I didn't go.

1456
01:23:24,160 --> 01:23:27,640
Speaker 12: I don't know, like I wasn't ready, I guess. And

1457
01:23:27,680 --> 01:23:30,320
Speaker 12: then it was the yeah, and it was the sentencing,

1458
01:23:30,400 --> 01:23:33,640
Speaker 12: and he was also on video because people like that

1459
01:23:33,760 --> 01:23:37,920
Speaker 12: don't do well in jail, as we know, so he's

1460
01:23:37,960 --> 01:23:43,479
Speaker 12: actually shipped to a different location, but he was in

1461
01:23:43,560 --> 01:23:47,120
Speaker 12: for the sentencing and I actually thought it was the

1462
01:23:47,200 --> 01:23:50,320
Speaker 12: actual sentencing, but it was the pre sentencing and there

1463
01:23:50,439 --> 01:23:56,160
Speaker 12: was actually some more victim impact statements and he actually

1464
01:23:56,200 --> 01:23:58,800
Speaker 12: got up on the stand. And that was the day

1465
01:23:58,840 --> 01:24:00,639
Speaker 12: that I finally decided to go.

1466
01:24:01,400 --> 01:24:01,639
Speaker 7: Wow.

1467
01:24:03,640 --> 01:24:06,120
Speaker 12: Yeah, And it was a lot, and I was super

1468
01:24:06,160 --> 01:24:10,200
Speaker 12: anxious and worried, and there was only eight people in

1469
01:24:10,240 --> 01:24:14,679
Speaker 12: the courtroom and it was tiny, tiny, tiny courtroom. And

1470
01:24:14,760 --> 01:24:19,479
Speaker 12: I went in and I like sat down, and I

1471
01:24:19,640 --> 01:24:24,840
Speaker 12: have hair like Julia Roberts or Meredith from Brave.

1472
01:24:25,520 --> 01:24:35,040
Speaker 13: I early hair and it was washed day that day

1473
01:24:35,240 --> 01:24:37,439
Speaker 13: because I wanted to be noticed.

1474
01:24:38,520 --> 01:24:41,559
Speaker 12: I don't want to know that I was there. So

1475
01:24:41,720 --> 01:24:44,679
Speaker 12: he walked in the courtroom and I saw his eyes

1476
01:24:45,000 --> 01:24:49,760
Speaker 12: like divert and possibly see me. But he went up

1477
01:24:49,800 --> 01:24:52,800
Speaker 12: and we were all facing in that direction, so he.

1478
01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:54,200
Speaker 13: Didn't like look.

1479
01:24:55,680 --> 01:24:59,719
Speaker 12: But there was a recess and on his way out,

1480
01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:02,960
Speaker 12: he had to walk right by me, like like a

1481
01:25:03,040 --> 01:25:07,880
Speaker 12: couple of sand meters away from me. And I sat

1482
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:11,040
Speaker 12: up strong and I was like, look at In my head,

1483
01:25:11,080 --> 01:25:12,000
Speaker 12: I was like, look at.

1484
01:25:11,920 --> 01:25:13,400
Speaker 13: Me, look at me, look at me.

1485
01:25:13,640 --> 01:25:14,000
Speaker 5: Come up.

1486
01:25:14,560 --> 01:25:18,000
Speaker 12: Yeah, yeah, like look at me. And I was looking

1487
01:25:18,040 --> 01:25:22,080
Speaker 12: at him like Stephanie. I was like channeling the hatred

1488
01:25:22,120 --> 01:25:23,840
Speaker 12: you have towards like bk.

1489
01:25:25,200 --> 01:25:28,000
Speaker 13: Y seen and all of the things.

1490
01:25:28,040 --> 01:25:29,880
Speaker 12: And that's what my look looked like.

1491
01:25:30,520 --> 01:25:32,520
Speaker 13: And he couldn't help himself.

1492
01:25:32,720 --> 01:25:33,400
Speaker 12: I knew it.

1493
01:25:33,479 --> 01:25:34,799
Speaker 13: He couldn't help himself.

1494
01:25:35,160 --> 01:25:38,400
Speaker 12: He made eye contact with me and I saw him

1495
01:25:38,439 --> 01:25:44,360
Speaker 12: get jittery, and I did it.

1496
01:25:41,800 --> 01:25:46,599
Speaker 2: Yes, he was forced to reckon with you.

1497
01:25:46,640 --> 01:25:46,960
Speaker 4: Boo.

1498
01:25:47,439 --> 01:25:53,000
Speaker 2: There is no sentence tougher. Oh I took a lot

1499
01:25:53,000 --> 01:25:54,320
Speaker 2: of courage.

1500
01:25:54,800 --> 01:25:59,880
Speaker 12: Yeah, Joe, I Yeah, and there was one of the

1501
01:26:00,280 --> 01:26:03,519
Speaker 12: victim impact statements. They had to modify it because of

1502
01:26:03,560 --> 01:26:08,400
Speaker 12: something in there that they couldn't say, And I just

1503
01:26:08,920 --> 01:26:10,880
Speaker 12: spoke to her because she was trying to figure out

1504
01:26:10,880 --> 01:26:14,200
Speaker 12: what to do and I was able to help her

1505
01:26:14,320 --> 01:26:15,960
Speaker 12: because of things I've heard on the show.

1506
01:26:17,760 --> 01:26:19,360
Speaker 13: Really like spodify it.

1507
01:26:21,200 --> 01:26:24,960
Speaker 12: Yeah, So there was a lot of things went on

1508
01:26:25,240 --> 01:26:28,160
Speaker 12: that I got the courage from from.

1509
01:26:28,000 --> 01:26:31,200
Speaker 13: Having knowledge from the show and things you.

1510
01:26:31,120 --> 01:26:34,360
Speaker 12: Talk about all the time. And you helped other people

1511
01:26:34,720 --> 01:26:37,400
Speaker 12: because I was able to help talk to them and

1512
01:26:37,439 --> 01:26:41,880
Speaker 12: explain things, and even that victim impact statement of that mom.

1513
01:26:43,400 --> 01:26:44,920
Speaker 12: So that was really cool.

1514
01:26:44,960 --> 01:26:48,880
Speaker 5: Sod of you.

1515
01:26:49,000 --> 01:26:53,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I'm hearing in full circle, Crocker. Thank you

1516
01:26:53,560 --> 01:26:55,240
Speaker 4: so much for that.

1517
01:26:55,439 --> 01:26:55,759
Speaker 2: Crocker.

1518
01:26:55,760 --> 01:26:57,479
Speaker 4: Will you do me a favorite and stay on the

1519
01:26:57,520 --> 01:27:00,800
Speaker 4: line and talk to Sam because I want you to

1520
01:27:00,800 --> 01:27:04,920
Speaker 4: get your address because I've decided anybody who is getting

1521
01:27:04,960 --> 01:27:09,799
Speaker 4: something special, yeah not even when everyone else is getting

1522
01:27:09,800 --> 01:27:13,439
Speaker 4: you get something different. So the people are getting this

1523
01:27:13,520 --> 01:27:17,240
Speaker 4: special flag. So talk to Sam and thank you again, Crocker.

1524
01:27:17,360 --> 01:27:20,360
Speaker 4: I really am proud of everything you did and enjoy

1525
01:27:20,400 --> 01:27:21,599
Speaker 4: that hot tub. I'm jealous.

1526
01:27:22,479 --> 01:27:25,960
Speaker 12: Yeah, Well, thank all of you because it's all it's

1527
01:27:26,000 --> 01:27:28,960
Speaker 12: everything that you guys talk about and inspiring a lot

1528
01:27:28,960 --> 01:27:29,360
Speaker 12: of people.

1529
01:27:29,439 --> 01:27:32,000
Speaker 13: So I just wanted to throw that out there in

1530
01:27:32,080 --> 01:27:32,559
Speaker 13: real life.

1531
01:27:32,640 --> 01:27:33,679
Speaker 12: How it actually happened.

1532
01:27:34,120 --> 01:27:39,479
Speaker 2: We talked to you soon.

1533
01:27:40,400 --> 01:27:41,120
Speaker 4: That was awesome.

1534
01:27:41,360 --> 01:27:45,799
Speaker 2: She was great. Yeah, we talked about Yeah.

1535
01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:46,920
Speaker 4: We got a couple of talk backs. When you do.

1536
01:27:48,560 --> 01:27:50,360
Speaker 5: I just wanted to leave my opinion.

1537
01:27:50,840 --> 01:27:54,000
Speaker 2: Just the counselor was spot on about not being.

1538
01:27:53,800 --> 01:27:55,559
Speaker 9: Alone when you break up with someone.

1539
01:27:55,800 --> 01:27:57,120
Speaker 5: My ex is crazy.

1540
01:27:57,320 --> 01:28:00,280
Speaker 2: I could not have a conversation with him. I had

1541
01:28:00,280 --> 01:28:01,880
Speaker 2: to literally run away.

1542
01:28:02,240 --> 01:28:05,040
Speaker 9: Anyways, we all really help people in more waste than

1543
01:28:05,080 --> 01:28:05,360
Speaker 9: you know.

1544
01:28:05,760 --> 01:28:06,400
Speaker 13: Love the show.

1545
01:28:06,760 --> 01:28:08,280
Speaker 2: Stephanie from Missouri.

1546
01:28:08,760 --> 01:28:10,680
Speaker 5: Oh love Stephanie.

1547
01:28:10,880 --> 01:28:14,320
Speaker 2: Thank you. That's wonder so nice. That's so great. And

1548
01:28:14,560 --> 01:28:15,599
Speaker 2: jess is the best.

1549
01:28:16,360 --> 01:28:18,360
Speaker 5: Yes, Jessica Kaplan.

1550
01:28:18,640 --> 01:28:21,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, she's Jessica Kaplan for those who aren't aware that

1551
01:28:21,840 --> 01:28:24,880
Speaker 4: she's referring to jess Kaplan, who is a therapist that

1552
01:28:25,000 --> 01:28:28,439
Speaker 4: comes on and just she gives the best advice. First

1553
01:28:28,439 --> 01:28:31,120
Speaker 4: of all, her voice is so soothing and calming. It's

1554
01:28:31,240 --> 01:28:34,360
Speaker 4: it just makes me feel like at ease when she talks.

1555
01:28:34,400 --> 01:28:38,439
Speaker 4: But she gave some like some amazing advice on domestic violence.

1556
01:28:38,479 --> 01:28:41,000
Speaker 4: And we were talking about that. But if you're in

1557
01:28:41,040 --> 01:28:45,439
Speaker 4: a troubled relationship that involves domestic relation to domestic violence,

1558
01:28:46,040 --> 01:28:49,960
Speaker 4: breaking up in public is a wiser step. And yeah,

1559
01:28:50,000 --> 01:28:55,559
Speaker 4: we appreciate everything she says and does. Oh yeah, yeah,

1560
01:28:57,520 --> 01:28:57,760
Speaker 4: thank you?

1561
01:28:58,200 --> 01:28:58,639
Speaker 2: Do you hear?

1562
01:28:58,880 --> 01:29:03,160
Speaker 11: I have to think happy for making me laugh out loud.

1563
01:29:03,800 --> 01:29:09,920
Speaker 11: You're talking about Costcos and she would rather eat crackers

1564
01:29:10,479 --> 01:29:16,800
Speaker 11: with rock go to Costco. Oh my gosh, I.

1565
01:29:16,800 --> 01:29:17,800
Speaker 13: Need that laugh today.

1566
01:29:18,080 --> 01:29:19,759
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1567
01:29:22,479 --> 01:29:25,080
Speaker 5: I remember saying that that is true.

1568
01:29:25,120 --> 01:29:28,920
Speaker 2: I don't love I don't love a Costco visit I don't,

1569
01:29:29,960 --> 01:29:34,640
Speaker 2: I don't. But you are brick from Courtney because she

1570
01:29:34,640 --> 01:29:40,280
Speaker 2: would be can probably taste delicious. She'll make that delicious

1571
01:29:40,479 --> 01:29:47,120
Speaker 2: rock sandwich tastes like deliciousness, gluten free. Anybody can do it?

1572
01:29:49,040 --> 01:29:53,760
Speaker 2: Why can't wait to get those cookies right now? Can

1573
01:29:53,960 --> 01:29:56,720
Speaker 2: we get another? Can we get another? Talk back?

1574
01:29:56,920 --> 01:29:58,840
Speaker 4: Let's do it. Let's jam through some good ones.

1575
01:29:59,200 --> 01:30:00,559
Speaker 2: Hello, beautiful people.

1576
01:30:00,840 --> 01:30:02,880
Speaker 14: I love every one of you, and I listen to

1577
01:30:02,920 --> 01:30:05,439
Speaker 14: you every single day, and thank you so much for

1578
01:30:05,520 --> 01:30:09,599
Speaker 14: your very equal minded reporting. I just wanted to let

1579
01:30:09,600 --> 01:30:12,559
Speaker 14: you know with your emergency kit thing, I learned that

1580
01:30:12,680 --> 01:30:15,760
Speaker 14: you should get out of state phone numbers so that

1581
01:30:15,880 --> 01:30:18,880
Speaker 14: you can call them on your landline and they will

1582
01:30:18,920 --> 01:30:21,680
Speaker 14: be able to help you, or at least know that

1583
01:30:21,720 --> 01:30:23,479
Speaker 14: you're okay. Take care, guys.

1584
01:30:23,600 --> 01:30:28,040
Speaker 2: I'll keep this What a great okay for starters first started.

1585
01:30:28,040 --> 01:30:31,559
Speaker 2: I don't see you suddenly hold on. What's interesting, though,

1586
01:30:31,600 --> 01:30:33,679
Speaker 2: is that's funny because I would never have thought of that.

1587
01:30:34,200 --> 01:30:37,040
Speaker 2: Number one is the importance of having a landline. That's

1588
01:30:37,040 --> 01:30:39,280
Speaker 2: another thing that I think. I hate to say it.

1589
01:30:39,320 --> 01:30:42,400
Speaker 2: I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but

1590
01:30:42,479 --> 01:30:44,479
Speaker 2: I do think that is a tip that's been said

1591
01:30:44,479 --> 01:30:48,440
Speaker 2: to me by everyone, which is it does get a landline.

1592
01:30:48,960 --> 01:30:51,400
Speaker 4: I asked someone about that a while back, and they said,

1593
01:30:51,640 --> 01:30:53,880
Speaker 4: at this point, the way everything is structured, even the

1594
01:30:54,000 --> 01:30:56,400
Speaker 4: landlines would go out if there was some sort of disaster.

1595
01:30:56,520 --> 01:30:58,800
Speaker 4: I'm not sure. I would love an expert of someone

1596
01:30:58,840 --> 01:31:01,880
Speaker 4: to tell me. But would we still be able to

1597
01:31:01,880 --> 01:31:03,840
Speaker 4: communicate through a landline if there was some sort of

1598
01:31:03,840 --> 01:31:05,719
Speaker 4: really major I'm not sure.

1599
01:31:05,920 --> 01:31:08,599
Speaker 2: I think there's something about the the area code though.

1600
01:31:08,640 --> 01:31:11,280
Speaker 2: That's very clever, because people do say that to get

1601
01:31:11,320 --> 01:31:14,160
Speaker 2: an out of state area code. But I'm not entirely

1602
01:31:14,320 --> 01:31:16,639
Speaker 2: sure why. But I know there's a good reason.

1603
01:31:16,880 --> 01:31:19,800
Speaker 3: Well, my understanding about and that was a great tip,

1604
01:31:19,880 --> 01:31:24,160
Speaker 3: so thank you for saying that. And this is people

1605
01:31:24,240 --> 01:31:26,519
Speaker 3: have told me about when they were here when the

1606
01:31:26,520 --> 01:31:31,760
Speaker 3: big earthquake happened in Northridge, I believe, in Los Angeles,

1607
01:31:32,400 --> 01:31:37,320
Speaker 3: and it's because all of the cellular everything's jammed in

1608
01:31:37,400 --> 01:31:42,200
Speaker 3: the particular spot where everything's going on. However, reaching out

1609
01:31:42,280 --> 01:31:46,639
Speaker 3: to other you know, outside of the area of your

1610
01:31:46,680 --> 01:31:50,599
Speaker 3: disaster gotcha and be freer. But we should we should

1611
01:31:50,600 --> 01:31:52,040
Speaker 3: actually have someone we're.

1612
01:31:51,880 --> 01:31:54,479
Speaker 2: Going to give into that because anything that I will say,

1613
01:31:54,760 --> 01:31:56,800
Speaker 2: just getting out of the fire. One of the things

1614
01:31:56,800 --> 01:31:59,200
Speaker 2: that I experienced, and it might just have been user

1615
01:31:59,280 --> 01:32:02,760
Speaker 2: error because I'm, you know, dope on my phone, but

1616
01:32:03,240 --> 01:32:06,000
Speaker 2: it went into SOS mode, which I've heard is the

1617
01:32:06,080 --> 01:32:08,680
Speaker 2: right thing, but I wasn't able to use it, Like

1618
01:32:08,720 --> 01:32:11,599
Speaker 2: I couldn't call out. And then suddenly there was only

1619
01:32:11,640 --> 01:32:14,800
Speaker 2: one person who I was able to actually get through

1620
01:32:14,880 --> 01:32:18,200
Speaker 2: to and for reasons I don't know, and thank god,

1621
01:32:18,240 --> 01:32:20,439
Speaker 2: he answered and was able to like give me some

1622
01:32:20,479 --> 01:32:23,759
Speaker 2: real time information and be able to contact the school.

1623
01:32:24,320 --> 01:32:26,559
Speaker 2: But I couldn't. I couldn't so.

1624
01:32:26,600 --> 01:32:29,200
Speaker 4: I couldn't use my phone. It wouldn't like the only

1625
01:32:29,240 --> 01:32:30,400
Speaker 4: the SOS mode was up.

1626
01:32:30,760 --> 01:32:34,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and My assumption is that this smoke was so

1627
01:32:34,439 --> 01:32:39,160
Speaker 2: heavy above that it was affecting though. It was affecting

1628
01:32:39,520 --> 01:32:41,200
Speaker 2: everybody's ability to communicate.

1629
01:32:42,280 --> 01:32:42,400
Speaker 4: Go.

1630
01:32:42,439 --> 01:32:44,559
Speaker 2: That was my experience. Now that might have just been

1631
01:32:44,600 --> 01:32:46,639
Speaker 2: like a little flicker on there was probably a button

1632
01:32:46,680 --> 01:32:49,200
Speaker 2: that I needed to push or something, and in the

1633
01:32:49,240 --> 01:32:51,360
Speaker 2: panic of it all, a I didn't know what to

1634
01:32:51,439 --> 01:32:56,519
Speaker 2: do and be I was panicking. So that I would

1635
01:32:56,560 --> 01:32:57,759
Speaker 2: like to solve that riddle.

1636
01:32:58,360 --> 01:33:00,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's have I actually I have someone, I have

1637
01:33:00,800 --> 01:33:02,160
Speaker 3: someone in mind that.

1638
01:33:02,439 --> 01:33:05,920
Speaker 4: Oh really, okay, I always thinking I would love someone

1639
01:33:05,960 --> 01:33:07,960
Speaker 4: that like, just so we can all be prepared for

1640
01:33:08,040 --> 01:33:11,479
Speaker 4: any kind of situation. I think, you know, the more

1641
01:33:11,520 --> 01:33:14,599
Speaker 4: we can be prepared and the more advice we can

1642
01:33:14,640 --> 01:33:17,920
Speaker 4: give people tips, the better. So I'm open to that.

1643
01:33:18,600 --> 01:33:21,679
Speaker 3: And going back to Jessica Kaplan, who, as you mentioned,

1644
01:33:21,800 --> 01:33:25,960
Speaker 3: is she's so she's just so calming and reasonable and thoughtful,

1645
01:33:26,560 --> 01:33:29,439
Speaker 3: and yeah, if we can provide any sort of ounce

1646
01:33:29,520 --> 01:33:32,559
Speaker 3: of something in that arena of just like here's actual

1647
01:33:32,640 --> 01:33:33,559
Speaker 3: things you can.

1648
01:33:33,479 --> 01:33:36,760
Speaker 2: Do, no exactly, And everybody right now has to just

1649
01:33:36,760 --> 01:33:38,920
Speaker 2: be a little kinder to each other. Everyone deserves a

1650
01:33:38,960 --> 01:33:40,880
Speaker 2: little bit of grace. Right now we're getting thrown a

1651
01:33:40,920 --> 01:33:43,880
Speaker 2: lot of scary stuff and a lot of gory details.

1652
01:33:44,479 --> 01:33:46,880
Speaker 2: We're being forced to think about things that maybe we

1653
01:33:47,000 --> 01:33:50,920
Speaker 2: haven't before, or are remembering things that we haven't before,

1654
01:33:51,200 --> 01:33:54,599
Speaker 2: or or it's just really graphic. So you know, allow

1655
01:33:54,680 --> 01:33:57,640
Speaker 2: yourself to feel a little off and each other to

1656
01:33:57,680 --> 01:34:01,120
Speaker 2: be a little off, and you know it's all going

1657
01:34:01,200 --> 01:34:01,839
Speaker 2: to be okay.

1658
01:34:02,360 --> 01:34:05,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's thank you. That's what we need to lead with. Yeah,

1659
01:34:05,920 --> 01:34:07,760
Speaker 4: those are words to live by. It's all going to

1660
01:34:07,840 --> 01:34:09,080
Speaker 4: be okay.

1661
01:34:09,360 --> 01:34:12,600
Speaker 2: It really is. No, this is like a necessary recalibration.

1662
01:34:13,400 --> 01:34:15,679
Speaker 2: But from here, I'm going to say the next couple

1663
01:34:15,720 --> 01:34:17,600
Speaker 2: of nights, we're not going to be here, but we

1664
01:34:17,680 --> 01:34:20,040
Speaker 2: will be missing you. First and foremost, we didn't get

1665
01:34:20,080 --> 01:34:22,320
Speaker 2: to the Alexander Brothers, but we will when we're back

1666
01:34:22,360 --> 01:34:26,040
Speaker 2: on Sunday and Taha any other cases that we're going

1667
01:34:26,120 --> 01:34:27,120
Speaker 2: to be covering.

1668
01:34:27,120 --> 01:34:29,200
Speaker 4: Well, we're also on Sunday. We're going to have Pamela

1669
01:34:29,280 --> 01:34:31,320
Speaker 4: Kendall and she's going to join us to break down

1670
01:34:31,360 --> 01:34:35,680
Speaker 4: the foster care of the prison pipeline. So join us.

1671
01:34:35,680 --> 01:34:37,320
Speaker 4: Then it's going to be good good.

1672
01:34:37,400 --> 01:34:38,679
Speaker 2: I have a great night.