Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Pete Bodh Jedge and this is the deciding decade.
Speaker 1: The experience of music, playing music, listening, music sharing music
Speaker 1: is a central part of life for so many of us.
Speaker 1: Certainly for me, I played piano from an early age,
Speaker 1: took up guitar as a teenager. I'm no professional, but
Speaker 1: it's meant a lot to me as a different form
Speaker 1: of expression, in a different way to respond to the world.
Speaker 1: Music represents such a vital perspective with the potential to
Speaker 1: cut across boundaries, habits and prejudice, and musicians have a
Speaker 1: lot to offer, not just within but beyond the world
Speaker 1: of entertainment. We live in a moment when we need
Speaker 1: art and music more than ever. Yes, as a way
Speaker 1: to stand apart from some of the pressures of the world,
Speaker 1: but also as a way to better understand and deal
Speaker 1: with those pressures. And that's why it shouldn't be so
Speaker 1: surprising that some of the most powerful voices in our
Speaker 1: political and social life today come from the world of music.
Speaker 1: My guest today is a perfect example. John Legend needs
Speaker 1: no introduction, but I'll introduce him anyways. John is a Grammy,
Speaker 1: Tony Oscar and any award winning per former, artist, activist, husband,
Speaker 1: and father, and all those awards make him only the
Speaker 1: fifteen person ever to earn an EGOT, and the first
Speaker 1: black man to do so. He has blessed our screens
Speaker 1: and our ears with beautiful, powerful and important music, TV
Speaker 1: shows and movies over the years, and he is working
Speaker 1: passionately to restore rights and gain equality for so many
Speaker 1: in this nation, including through his work with his organization
Speaker 1: Free American, which aims to tackle mass incarceration. He has
Speaker 1: been a leader in the struggle for racial justice, for
Speaker 1: fair and quality education, and so much more. He is
Speaker 1: a force for good in our country. John, really great
Speaker 1: to have you. Thank you, Pete. It's great to be
Speaker 1: here with you, and I'm excited to talk with you.
Speaker 1: I want to start with what everyone has been talking about.
Speaker 1: There's been a very important decision. The people have spoken,
Speaker 1: the votes have been counted, and we now know who
Speaker 1: the new winner is of the vote. Luckily, his predecessor
Speaker 1: has been incredibly gracious and supportive. I'm speaking of horse
Speaker 1: about the Sexiest Man Alive, Michael B. Jordan. How does
Speaker 1: it feel to be a retired sexiest man Alive? Oh?
Speaker 1: The pressure is off. I feel so relieved, like a
Speaker 1: like a thousand pounds have been lifted off of my shoulders.
Speaker 1: If only every transition was as graceful, I'll come to
Speaker 1: I want to really excited to talk about and some
Speaker 1: what's going on in our country right now with you,
Speaker 1: because your perspectives have been so powerful. But but first
Speaker 1: I wanted to go back in time a little bit,
Speaker 1: because you are also a product of the Midwest. Grew
Speaker 1: up in Springfield, Ohio. I believe a community where I
Speaker 1: think your father worked in a factory, those communities that
Speaker 1: that's something you understand very well. And I wonder how
Speaker 1: do you explain a place like Springfield to people who
Speaker 1: don't know much about the Midwest. Well, my area was
Speaker 1: a very blue collar area. A lot of the people
Speaker 1: in my town worked at the auto factory where my
Speaker 1: father worked. He worked for a company called Navistar International,
Speaker 1: who was formerly known as International Harvester. Uh. They employed
Speaker 1: a lot of people in Indiana as well. In fact,
Speaker 1: I remember when I was a kid, they were deciding
Speaker 1: between putting some jobs in Fort Wayne or in Springfield
Speaker 1: and uh and so uh it was. You know, it
Speaker 1: was such an important topic of conversation in my community
Speaker 1: where those auto jobs were going. And as you know,
Speaker 1: that is a conversation that's had across the Midwest, particularly
Speaker 1: in Michigan and Indiana, in various places throughout the country. Uh,
Speaker 1: those jobs are very important. It was the reason that
Speaker 1: my father had a stable career. He worked there until retirement,
Speaker 1: got a pension, And I understand the value of u
Speaker 1: a w job like he had. It was critical to
Speaker 1: us living. Uh, you know, a decent life where they
Speaker 1: could afford you know, food for us, shelter for us,
Speaker 1: clothing for us, the basic needs that we we had
Speaker 1: as kids. How do you think that shape coming out
Speaker 1: of a community like that, in in a family like that,
Speaker 1: especially somebody who's now so outspoken on on economic and
Speaker 1: racial justice. Well, I think it makes it it clear
Speaker 1: to you that policy decisions, that corporate decisions, have an
Speaker 1: impact on real people. As my senator of my former
Speaker 1: state talks about all the time, Sharrett Brown talks about
Speaker 1: the dignity of work and how important it is that
Speaker 1: we value workers. I think it's very important that we
Speaker 1: do that in policy and in the way we talk
Speaker 1: about these issues, that we value the honest work of
Speaker 1: so many people throughout the country, so many of whom
Speaker 1: aren't college educated. Some many of them are working um
Speaker 1: in factories or in other jobs that are really important
Speaker 1: to the lifeblood of this country's economy and our community,
Speaker 1: but sometimes don't get a lot of glory or fanfare. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that gets missed so
Speaker 1: much in conversations about the economy is how much a
Speaker 1: job can really meet right And when you're talking about
Speaker 1: uh U a W workers or or people in professions,
Speaker 1: or at the ways that you know, whether it's a
Speaker 1: firm event for a lawyer or a union picnic for
Speaker 1: U a W. That's where your spouses and kids get
Speaker 1: to know each other. It's it's a lot more than
Speaker 1: just a job. And it feels like a lot of
Speaker 1: policies are designed to maybe make sure somebody still has
Speaker 1: the income when their economic life is disrupted, but totally
Speaker 1: overlooks how much else is at stake in the patterns
Speaker 1: people grew up on where you could count on them
Speaker 1: maybe a lifelong relationship with with one employer, or at
Speaker 1: least a lifelong career in one industry, right right. And
Speaker 1: I think it's okay to be nostalgic for the error,
Speaker 1: but we also have to be realistic that a lot
Speaker 1: of jobs aren't going to be lifelong. Uh. There, people
Speaker 1: are going to change jobs, are gonna change careers. Sometimes
Speaker 1: they're gonna have to go back and get retraining. And
Speaker 1: uh we need to have I think policies uh that
Speaker 1: are flexible for people and opportunities for them to take
Speaker 1: some risks. Um. That's why I was always wary of,
Speaker 1: you know, health insurance being tied to people's uh job,
Speaker 1: because when it's tied to something that's not permanent, then, uh,
Speaker 1: it's quite stressful when people lose their jobs. And um
Speaker 1: to add the stress of having to figure out how
Speaker 1: they're going to take care of their family if someone
Speaker 1: gets sick. You know, we need to think about all
Speaker 1: of that. I think we can be as nostalgic as
Speaker 1: we want to be for an era when people kept
Speaker 1: the same job like my dad did, but we have
Speaker 1: to realize that that's not always going to be the case,
Speaker 1: and it's more likely than not not going to be
Speaker 1: the case. Uh, And uh we need to have policies
Speaker 1: that may get so that, uh, there is flexibility, there's
Speaker 1: a safety net, there are opportunities in place for people
Speaker 1: who may have a more dynamic career path right, and
Speaker 1: we can design for that right, whether we're talking about healthcare,
Speaker 1: whether we're talking about sick leave. I mean, there's no
Speaker 1: iron law that the unemployment insurance or you b I
Speaker 1: even all these things that would give people some flexibility
Speaker 1: and respond to the fact that the economy is pretty dynamic.
Speaker 1: So I gotta say, you're known to be extremely talented,
Speaker 1: but I'm not sure people who don't know about your
Speaker 1: political side would have expected to hear you talking with
Speaker 1: a lot of sophistication about policy. You're you're and You've
Speaker 1: chosen weigh in on these things. And I'm wondering, do
Speaker 1: you do you face pressure to stick to entertainment that
Speaker 1: this kind of outside of politics, or is it just
Speaker 1: the most natural thing the world for you to talk
Speaker 1: policy and to be uh such a larger than my
Speaker 1: figure in the entertainment world. At the same time, I
Speaker 1: do face uh some criticism and backlash, particularly on Twitter.
Speaker 1: Imagine that. But you know plenty of people telling me
Speaker 1: to shut up and sing, or we don't care about
Speaker 1: your political opinions. Obviously, I think about these things a lot.
Speaker 1: I care about them, and I talked about them because
Speaker 1: I'm interested in I care, and I genuinely want outcomes
Speaker 1: that I think will be better for the country. And
Speaker 1: I say it, but you shouldn't value my opinion just
Speaker 1: because I'm famous and I have a lot of Twitter followers.
Speaker 1: Assess it based on the merits of what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: If you think it would be terrible for the country,
Speaker 1: disagree with me, but don't do it because I'm a
Speaker 1: singer and I don't have the right to speak out
Speaker 1: about it. Do it because you think I'm wrong on
Speaker 1: the merits. So I think we can all have these conversations,
Speaker 1: and my assertion that I think all of us should
Speaker 1: share is that all of us have a stake and
Speaker 1: what's happening in the country. We're all citizens. We vote here,
Speaker 1: we pay taxes here, and I always remember that government
Speaker 1: isn't some other thing, it's us. We pull our money
Speaker 1: together in the form of taxes, and then we elect
Speaker 1: people that we expect to represent our best interests and
Speaker 1: do what's best for the community. You mentioned Twitter. I
Speaker 1: want to talk about that a little bit. What are
Speaker 1: we gonna do about Twitter? What are we gonna do
Speaker 1: about social media? I mean, it's it's such an important
Speaker 1: part of how we communicate, and it's also obviously not
Speaker 1: a space that's exactly bringing out the best of all
Speaker 1: of us all the time. Where do you think we're headed? Well,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm of two minds about it, because on
Speaker 1: one hand, I really believe I've learned a lot by
Speaker 1: being engaged on Twitter. I think there are really interesting
Speaker 1: voice is who I would never have known about unless
Speaker 1: I UH saw a retweet from them from another person
Speaker 1: that I trusted on Twitter, and and I think my
Speaker 1: circle of people I'm interested in and read articles from
Speaker 1: and and and read Twitter threads from it has expanded,
Speaker 1: and I think it's been a good thing for me.
Speaker 1: There's so many issues I would have not known as
Speaker 1: much about, and I think a lot of voices who
Speaker 1: previously would have been marginalized by the corporate media structure
Speaker 1: UH had an opportunity to be heard. And I think
Speaker 1: that is a really good thing. Of course, with that
Speaker 1: really good thing, there's also UH the opportunity to miss
Speaker 1: INFORMIM to to use disinformation in social media, and we've
Speaker 1: seen the President of take full advantage of that and
Speaker 1: just repeat lie after lie after lie after lie, and
Speaker 1: UM intentionally poisoned the conversation and in a way that
Speaker 1: needs to be addressed. Um, when it's obvious that someone's
Speaker 1: lying and it's having a really terrible effect on the
Speaker 1: conversation and on people's lives, particularly when it comes to
Speaker 1: COVID and other issues of life and death. I think
Speaker 1: these social media organizations need to find ways to censor
Speaker 1: that content. People can say it and not get arrested.
Speaker 1: That's free speech, but they don't have the right to
Speaker 1: say anything on any social platform that's privately owned or
Speaker 1: incorporately owned, and they don't have the right to say
Speaker 1: anything without consequence. They have the right to say it
Speaker 1: without getting locked up, but they don't have the right
Speaker 1: to just say it. It's also the case that, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, for all the problems that have come our
Speaker 1: way through things like social media and technology, it's also
Speaker 1: helped shine a light on abuses that people would not
Speaker 1: have known otherwise. I was researching a book I wrote
Speaker 1: recently on trust, and I found some writings from the
Speaker 1: ninety nineties when people were just trying to figure out
Speaker 1: what the internet was gonna do, and some of them
Speaker 1: they sound really utopian now, you know. One of was
Speaker 1: about it gushing about how you know the future and
Speaker 1: the digital era, everything is gonna be driven by fact
Speaker 1: and then we know it didn't work out. But I
Speaker 1: saw another piece and it was written by someone who
Speaker 1: specialized in studying the former Soviet republics, and he was
Speaker 1: a human rights expert, and he's writing about how, you know,
Speaker 1: as digital communications proliferate, it's gonna become more and more
Speaker 1: possible for human rights abuses to be documented and they
Speaker 1: can't be denied by the regimes where they have now.
Speaker 1: He was thinking about Central Asia when he was writing this.
Speaker 1: But I found this quote and it happened to be
Speaker 1: in the summer of this year, and I thought, you know,
Speaker 1: what he's describing is also it's George Floyd, right, It's
Speaker 1: it's things like the murder of George Floyd that we
Speaker 1: saw with our own eyes and a human rights abuse
Speaker 1: right here in the US. How do you think that
Speaker 1: we can make sure that the empowering side of digital media,
Speaker 1: for for true somehow can outweigh the misinformation that goes
Speaker 1: on there? Is it just something that the social media
Speaker 1: companies have to do? Do you think there are things
Speaker 1: that we can do as as just ordinary consumers or
Speaker 1: those of us who have bigger platforms on Twitter, what
Speaker 1: can we do to make sure that that that part
Speaker 1: of it right, that the shining light on what needs
Speaker 1: to be seen outweighs all the noise and the misinformation
Speaker 1: and the cruelty that's out there. Well, thank you for
Speaker 1: bringing up George Floyd and the power of social media
Speaker 1: in uh amplifying the message of Black Lives Matter and
Speaker 1: so many activists who have spoken out for a long
Speaker 1: time about what's been going on with police abuses, particularly
Speaker 1: in the black community, brown community as well. Another example
Speaker 1: of why social media is so important, being able to
Speaker 1: tell these stories in a way that's not filtered by
Speaker 1: the corporate media. Being able to tell these stories that
Speaker 1: we've known we're real in our communities for a long time,
Speaker 1: but we didn't have the proof because we didn't all
Speaker 1: have you know, cameras on our phone owns. Back we
Speaker 1: didn't even have phones back in the time with mobile
Speaker 1: phones back in the time, and a lot of this
Speaker 1: stuff was happening. But now we're able to document these things.
Speaker 1: And I don't like watching these videos. In fact, I
Speaker 1: avoid a lot of the videos because I just don't
Speaker 1: like seeing so much black death and pain m broadcast
Speaker 1: in such a ubiquitous way, but the fact that these
Speaker 1: videos exist is important and it has moved the conversation,
Speaker 1: and social media has spread messages that I think are
Speaker 1: really important and uplifted the voices of activists whose voices
Speaker 1: we need to be hearing. You mentioned something I really
Speaker 1: want to explore with you, which is the kind of
Speaker 1: one dimensional nature of what is often seen in the
Speaker 1: Black experience death, injustice, harm, suffering. I think you've mentioned
Speaker 1: your your recent album Bigger Love, not knowing of course
Speaker 1: the context it was going to arrive in, but how
Speaker 1: important it was to you that a broader experience be
Speaker 1: represented as a black artist with the huge black following
Speaker 1: and a huge multiracial following. What do you think it
Speaker 1: takes two? On one hand, you know, do the right
Speaker 1: thing and make clear that you know what these experiences
Speaker 1: of pain are, and at the same time also do
Speaker 1: the right thing and make sure that the black experience
Speaker 1: is not reduced to injustice and suffering and pain, but
Speaker 1: it is kind of amplified in all of its richness
Speaker 1: and um, we experience the full range of human emotion,
Speaker 1: and we want to express that in our We experience love,
Speaker 1: we romance, joy, questioning, inspiration Black people and I think
Speaker 1: all people I want to see those images as well,
Speaker 1: and not just images of us being in pain, us
Speaker 1: being treated unfairly. I think it's important for us to
Speaker 1: also show the range of our experience in this country
Speaker 1: and around the world, UH, show the richness of our
Speaker 1: culture and and put that on display for the whole
Speaker 1: world to see. And not only is it the right
Speaker 1: thing to do, but it's also been I think proven
Speaker 1: to be commercially viable that we're showing the range of
Speaker 1: our experiences and that UH and that representing UH these
Speaker 1: underrepresented minority groups in this country, UM actually sells well
Speaker 1: to Hollywood is I think learned that lesson recently in
Speaker 1: the past few years, and it's been better for the
Speaker 1: creative community, but also better for our audience that they're
Speaker 1: seeing a wider range of images and stories and more
Speaker 1: voices are being heard than ever before. Part of it,
Speaker 1: I think is kind of a fortunate consequence of just
Speaker 1: the sheer breadth of entertainment opportunities that you know, with
Speaker 1: with Netflix and Apple TV and HBO, Max and Peacock,
Speaker 1: there's so many outlets for entertainment, which means there's a
Speaker 1: lot of demand for storytellers. As an audience member, is
Speaker 1: cool to just be open open to the idea that
Speaker 1: you can get a look into a different culture or
Speaker 1: from your own, learn something, be entertained by it, connect
Speaker 1: with it in some way that universal and very human,
Speaker 1: and hopefully everyone opens themself up to that, because you'll
Speaker 1: be richly entertained if you open yourself up to that. Uh.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I've been watching The Queen's Gambit.
Speaker 1: I have nothing in common with the girl from the
Speaker 1: Queen's Gambit, but it's very entertaining and it's very like
Speaker 1: interesting to see a subculture that I'm not a part of,
Speaker 1: but the stakes are interesting, the humanity of the person
Speaker 1: is interesting, and I can connect to the person on
Speaker 1: an emotional level. So you mentioned something else a few times.
Speaker 1: You mentioned the kind of business side of this, and
Speaker 1: and you know the commercial structures around the media, what
Speaker 1: it can pick up, what it suppresses. Sometimes, when I
Speaker 1: was getting ready for our conversation, one thing I did
Speaker 1: not know that we had in common was working for
Speaker 1: two or three years in consulting before into something we
Speaker 1: were more passionate about. Do you think your brief time
Speaker 1: in consulting and in that that kind of corporate world
Speaker 1: shape the way you think about how corporate forces now
Speaker 1: influence what's going on in the creative space. Well, I mean,
Speaker 1: I feel like I learned a lot when I was
Speaker 1: at BCG. I worked at BCG. I know you worked
Speaker 1: at mackenzie and Uh. I applied to McKenzie, got one interview,
Speaker 1: but did not get the job there. I plied BCG
Speaker 1: and didn't get a job there. So there we go.
Speaker 1: But both of those firms, obviously, UM, they recruit from
Speaker 1: top schools around the country, and they are places where
Speaker 1: you interact with a lot of other smart people, UM
Speaker 1: learn about things that you may have never even thought
Speaker 1: about before, and have access to a lot of the
Speaker 1: top boardrooms in the country, whether it's corporate or nonprofit.
Speaker 1: And I did a little bit of both. I felt
Speaker 1: like it was a valuable experience. UM. I didn't want
Speaker 1: to do that for the rest of my life. I
Speaker 1: knew that music was the most important thing for me
Speaker 1: and something I was really good at and wanted to
Speaker 1: do professionally. But I felt like my time at BCG
Speaker 1: taught me quite a bit about how the business world works,
Speaker 1: and I think it made the transition to me interacting
Speaker 1: with my record label and all the other business aspects
Speaker 1: of the entertainment business. It made it easier for me
Speaker 1: to make that transition and represent myself in a way
Speaker 1: where I was able to advocate for myself in the
Speaker 1: right way and understand what was going on outside of
Speaker 1: the creative side of things. Now, you also have a
Speaker 1: lot of organizational experience in building advocacy and nonprofit organizations
Speaker 1: like Free America. Can you share a little bit about
Speaker 1: how that came about and and what the future is
Speaker 1: of the work that you've been doing around the criminal
Speaker 1: legal system. Yeah, so we found did Free America a
Speaker 1: few years ago. I don't know if people remember my
Speaker 1: Oscar speech, but I went up on the stage when
Speaker 1: we won uh An Oscar for writing Glory for the
Speaker 1: film Selma. I went up on the stage. I talked
Speaker 1: about us being the most incarcerated country in the world,
Speaker 1: and that there were more black men under correctional control
Speaker 1: now than who were in enslaved in the eighteen fifty
Speaker 1: A lot of people were shocked when I said those
Speaker 1: things because they didn't even know that that was true,
Speaker 1: and it wasn't being talked about so much during that time.
Speaker 1: But since then, obviously a lot more attention has been
Speaker 1: paid to mass incarceration. We've seen a film by the
Speaker 1: director of selma Aba du Vernet, a film called The Thirteen.
Speaker 1: We've seen a lot of people on both sides of
Speaker 1: the political spectrum advocating for changes in our prison system,
Speaker 1: in our criminal justice system. We've seen people going as
Speaker 1: far as saying we should abolish prisons, abolished the police,
Speaker 1: uh two. On the other into the spectrum, at least
Speaker 1: reform these institutions and and reduced our use of these institutions.
Speaker 1: All of these conversations have been had, and I feel
Speaker 1: like we at Free America were on the forefront of
Speaker 1: making those conversations more amplified, more salient, more part of
Speaker 1: the broader national conversation. And we did it because we
Speaker 1: recognized that it was a major issue. I was inspired
Speaker 1: personally by reading The New Gym, Crow and other books
Speaker 1: about this issue. I was inspired by my own experiences
Speaker 1: having family members who were in prison, in local jails,
Speaker 1: caught up in the system in one way or the other,
Speaker 1: and just growing up black in America. You just see
Speaker 1: how much prisons, jails, policing effects our everyday existence. And
Speaker 1: that's why we've been on the forefront of trying to
Speaker 1: make really significant UM change in those institutions. And when
Speaker 1: we started Free America, we started just by listening. We
Speaker 1: went around the country, talked to stakeholders. We talked to
Speaker 1: people who were still in prison, people who had been
Speaker 1: incarcerated formally and had returned to society. We talked to
Speaker 1: district attorneys, We talked to UH state legislators, We talked
Speaker 1: to corrections officers, all kinds of people who had experience
Speaker 1: in the system and understood what was going wrong and
Speaker 1: and and had done some thinking about how to change it.
Speaker 1: Once we had kind of done our rounds of really
Speaker 1: listening and talking to folks, we started advocating for certain
Speaker 1: policy changes. We we got with UH some Texas Justice advocates,
Speaker 1: some California advocates, some Louisiana advocates, some Florida advocates, and
Speaker 1: UH joined with them to advocate for changes that were
Speaker 1: enacted by legislatures, changes that were enacted by ballot propositions,
Speaker 1: changes that were acted by governors when it came to
Speaker 1: things like clemency and commutations. We've gotten involved in trying
Speaker 1: to make tangible policy change around the country and We've
Speaker 1: also gotten involved with educating the public around the role
Speaker 1: of district attorneys. We got with the a c l
Speaker 1: U to do a Know Your d a campaign where
Speaker 1: we taught people how important district attorneys are in your community.
Speaker 1: Most people don't realize that. UM most cases don't go
Speaker 1: to trial. Almost all of them are kind of negotiated
Speaker 1: between the defense attorney and the and the district attorney.
Speaker 1: And the district attorney holds most of the power because
Speaker 1: they can pretty much tell the grand jury what to do.
Speaker 1: They can pretty much dictate the terms that they want
Speaker 1: UH in in almost any case, and so their discretion
Speaker 1: is hugely influential. And if they have a more progressive inclination,
Speaker 1: if they if they have a specific intent to not
Speaker 1: lock up so many able to use alternatives to prison
Speaker 1: whenever possible, to UH do things that are more just
Speaker 1: and more fair and more edifying for the community, they
Speaker 1: have the power to do it. And so we educated
Speaker 1: people that that was the case. And then also I
Speaker 1: personally went out and advocated for more progressive district attorneys
Speaker 1: and states attorneys in various major races around the country,
Speaker 1: whether it was Chicago for Kim Fox or Philadelphia for
Speaker 1: Larry Krasner or most recently George Gascon here in Los Angeles.
Speaker 1: I got involved in those elections, educated people about the
Speaker 1: importance of those elections because a lot of times people
Speaker 1: don't pay attention to anything under President Senator governor. Wanted
Speaker 1: to educate them about that and advocate for district attorneys
Speaker 1: that I thought would take the city or county in
Speaker 1: the right direction. This is such an important point because
Speaker 1: I think that often when you think about, you know
Speaker 1: who in the criminal legal system can play a role
Speaker 1: from a progressive or pro justice standpoint, you think about
Speaker 1: public defenders in the work that they do, which is
Speaker 1: important absolutely, But you know there's a case to be
Speaker 1: made that if you really care about justice, if you're
Speaker 1: thinking about reform, and from a progressive anglod the best
Speaker 1: thing you could do is run for d A or
Speaker 1: will be involved in supporting somebody who's up for UH
Speaker 1: for prosecutor. Because of that discretion you're talking about. I
Speaker 1: feel so proud that I have been part of informing
Speaker 1: people about this UH and it's really a new thing.
Speaker 1: It's a new conversation that we're having that we weren't
Speaker 1: having ten years ago. It just was not happening, and
Speaker 1: so if we have someone with the right values and
Speaker 1: the right sensibility in those offices, the outcomes will be better.
Speaker 1: And we've seen it, uh, people like Krasner and Fox
Speaker 1: have reduced incarceration and crime has gone down in those
Speaker 1: communities too. It shows you that you can lock a
Speaker 1: lot fewer people up and also reduce crime. And a
Speaker 1: lot of times people don't realize the cost of locking
Speaker 1: people up is beyond just the physical cost of having
Speaker 1: a staff there and a building and all the things
Speaker 1: that go into the building. It's an opportunity cost because
Speaker 1: every time you choose to do that, you're choosing not
Speaker 1: to spend that money on something else that could be
Speaker 1: better for the community. You're also causing harm to that
Speaker 1: person's family. You're causing harm in so many ways, and
Speaker 1: we don't count all of that stuff. We just count
Speaker 1: the physical costs, the personnel costs, the cost of you know,
Speaker 1: feeding and caring for them medically. But we don't think
Speaker 1: about all the other societal costs that come with us
Speaker 1: locking so many people up. And my belief is, in
Speaker 1: most cases we don't need to lock people up. You
Speaker 1: strike me as somebody who is very clear eyed about
Speaker 1: everything that's wrong in this country, and not without optimism
Speaker 1: and hope for the future. What's your level of optimism
Speaker 1: that the next decade will go well and what would
Speaker 1: have to happen over the next decade for us to
Speaker 1: be able to look back with satisfaction from and say, Okay,
Speaker 1: it got pretty rough as but then we turn things around. Well.
Speaker 1: I think the most important issue, notwithstanding the fact that
Speaker 1: my nonprofit is around criminal justice reform, I think the
Speaker 1: most important issue is our climate and how we respond
Speaker 1: to the challenge of climate change. If we don't get
Speaker 1: this right, it could mean some really terrible things for
Speaker 1: the entire planet over the next few decades. It could
Speaker 1: be immensely tragic for so many people. And we've gotten
Speaker 1: kind of a preview with COVID of what it's like
Speaker 1: to have a president who doesn't believe in science, a
Speaker 1: president who doesn't have long term thinking, a president who
Speaker 1: isn't strategic about anything that requires um, multi layers, multi years,
Speaker 1: you know, all these aspects of tackling a big problem
Speaker 1: that um the payoff for doing it right is an
Speaker 1: immediate We've seen what a president like that does in
Speaker 1: response to a pandemic and climate change is even more
Speaker 1: challenging because the results aren't as immediate, the costs of
Speaker 1: inaction aren't abundantly clear in this present moment, and so
Speaker 1: it's a scary, scary thing because it's so hugely impactful,
Speaker 1: yet we can't see the impacts at at a sufficient
Speaker 1: level right now to have a sense of urgency about it.
Speaker 1: So if I were to say an optimistic view of
Speaker 1: what will happen in this decade in response to that
Speaker 1: would be one we elected Joe Biden who actually believes
Speaker 1: it's a real issue and has a real robust plan
Speaker 1: to attack it um and that there's a way to
Speaker 1: attack it without sacrificing the economy, without sacrificing jobs, And
Speaker 1: in fact, we would create jobs and and it would
Speaker 1: be healthier for the economy and healthier for our infrastructure,
Speaker 1: and UH, tackle a major, major, major problem that could
Speaker 1: be catastrophic if we don't attack it. Um. So I
Speaker 1: believe there are plenty of reasons for us to get
Speaker 1: this right. That doesn't mean we will get it right,
Speaker 1: particularly if Mrs McConnell is still running the Senate, but yeah,
Speaker 1: we have to get it right. And I think the
Speaker 1: benefits of getting it right, are right there in front
Speaker 1: of our faith, um and and so I'm somewhat hopeful,
Speaker 1: somewhat optimistic that will actually do the right thing. And
Speaker 1: as President, Joe Biden can do some things to executive
Speaker 1: order and how he runs the e p A. It
Speaker 1: just kind of administratively. UH. He can do some of
Speaker 1: those things that we need to do. He can rejoin
Speaker 1: the Paris Accords and a few other things. But some
Speaker 1: of this uh is going to have to be enacted
Speaker 1: by our legislature, and that means the Georgia elections are
Speaker 1: very important. When I was looking over recent news stories
Speaker 1: about John before this conversation, I was amazed by the
Speaker 1: number of projects that he's taken on, from the Voice
Speaker 1: to his new album, to his political activism, to being
Speaker 1: a husband and a father to two beautiful young children,
Speaker 1: and on and on. He is a leading figure in
Speaker 1: the fight for racial equity. He's making a tangible impact
Speaker 1: in our policies and in the entertainment world. I think
Speaker 1: back to what he said about his inflection point, leaving
Speaker 1: a coveted job and consulting and deciding to pursue music
Speaker 1: with everything he had. We know that's not an easy thing.
Speaker 1: To do, but it was a choice that had huge impact,
Speaker 1: as his commitment to his passions wound up helping brighten
Speaker 1: the lives of millions. His story is a reminder of
Speaker 1: what's waiting on the other side when you're ready to
Speaker 1: make that leap of faith and work on the things
Speaker 1: you care about. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio,
Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.