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Speaker 1: Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio, the George

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Speaker 1: Washington Broadcast.

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Speaker 2: Center, Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty arm Strong and Gatty

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Speaker 2: and he Armstrong and Yetty.

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Speaker 1: Germany is cracking down. We were with the German police

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Speaker 1: as they conducted early morning raids on citizens who had

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Speaker 1: been accused of hate speech, threats and inciting violence online.

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Speaker 3: In the United States.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people look at this and say, this

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Speaker 1: is restricting free speech.

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Speaker 2: It's a threat to democracy.

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Speaker 4: Free speech meets boundaries.

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Speaker 2: Wow, and yeah, you throw in the German accent and

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Speaker 2: that's really something that's from that's from sixty minutes Sunday night,

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Speaker 2: coming on the heels of jd Vance giving Europe a

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Speaker 2: lecture about censorship and be an anti free speech over

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Speaker 2: the weekend.

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Speaker 5: And as we will discuss, the sixty minutes report was gleefully, weirdly,

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Speaker 5: troublingly positive about the idea of restricting free speech if

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Speaker 5: it's the wrong speech. Made even more notable their awful

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Speaker 5: attitude by the fact that it occurred on the same

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Speaker 5: day as this clip Margaret Brennan talking to Marco Rubio on.

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Speaker 6: Face the Nation, he was standing in a country where

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Speaker 6: free speech was weaponized to kentuct a genocide, and he

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Speaker 6: met with the head of a political party that has

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Speaker 6: far right views and some historic ties to extreme groups.

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Speaker 5: Margaret Brennan attempting to suggest that JD. Vance shouldn't have

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Speaker 5: advocated free speech because free speech is what led to

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Speaker 5: the genocide in Germany against the Jews, which is almost

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Speaker 5: hilariously idiotic and so wildly inaccurate. It's barely worth the

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Speaker 5: time to describe how incredibly inaccurate it was free speech

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Speaker 5: under Hitler. When was that exactly, asks every historian on Earth.

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Speaker 2: I know, I'm mister hyperbole, but I feel like that's

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Speaker 2: one of the craziest things I've ever heard. One of

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Speaker 2: the major Sunday Show anchors say it is Jada Advan Questionably,

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Speaker 2: Jade Evans was standing in Germany where the rise of

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Speaker 2: fascism having in a genocide and they weaponized free speech.

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Speaker 2: What are you talking about? Oh my god, Yeah, she's nuts.

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Speaker 2: I'm so lost on this. I don't understand their worldview.

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Speaker 2: I guess we'll learn more of this. Well I do.

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Speaker 5: I can describe it to you exactly. It's the lust

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Speaker 5: for power. If you control speech, you control everything else.

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Speaker 2: But how does that work in a democracy, don't you

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Speaker 2: The other side gets to do it too when they're

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Speaker 2: in charge. Again.

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Speaker 5: I hate even going to that argument because then it

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Speaker 5: makes it a conditional thing. Well, for practical reasons, I

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Speaker 5: guess you're right. I won't limit free speech. I don't

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Speaker 5: even want to go there, right, It's horrific, horrific, and

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Speaker 5: how you get there in a democracy. The other thing

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Speaker 5: is you declare an emergency. Happens all the time both parties.

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Speaker 5: This is Trump's doing it right now, and I don't

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Speaker 5: approve of it. There are half a dozen different emergencies

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Speaker 5: he's declared which are highly questionable for the purpose of

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Speaker 5: gaining emergency powers. I hate it on both sides. We

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Speaker 5: need to stop anyway back to sixty minutes. Do you

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Speaker 5: want to ring lean our way through the cliffs? Doesn't

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Speaker 5: really matter. We can start with eighty Michael.

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Speaker 1: It's six oh one on a Tuesday morning, and we

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Speaker 1: were with state police as they rated this apartment in

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Speaker 1: northwest Germany.

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Speaker 4: Just to put it inside them at the moment hum

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Speaker 4: of the.

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Speaker 1: Eden inside, six armed officers searched to suspects home, then

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Speaker 1: seized his laptop and sell phone. Prosecutors say those electronics

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Speaker 1: may have been used to commit a crime, the crime

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Speaker 1: posting a racist cartoon online at the exact same time

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Speaker 1: across Germany, it's.

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Speaker 3: All the online as Unsas for Newborn hold.

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Speaker 1: More than fifty similar raids played out, part of what

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Speaker 1: prosecutors say is a coordinated effort to curb online hate

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Speaker 1: speech in Germany.

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Speaker 2: And the one guy points out, maybe it will be

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Speaker 2: in one of these clips, the seven thousand cases or

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Speaker 2: something that they investigated last year. Wow, that's a lot

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Speaker 2: in a country much smaller than the United States. Imagine

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Speaker 2: what that would look like in the United States. And

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Speaker 2: hate speech, of course, the one of the problems with

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Speaker 2: hate speech being who's determining its hate speech, who's making

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Speaker 2: the judgment on that? Yeah, Sharon Alfonsi very helpful.

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Speaker 5: He just saved us the trouble and told us the

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Speaker 5: cartoon was racist, putting aside whether you know you should

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Speaker 5: limit free speech on the basis of quote unquote racism anyway,

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Speaker 5: but yeah, what did it say?

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Speaker 2: In what sense? Was it racist? Who is it racist against?

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Speaker 7: What?

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Speaker 5: Give me the specific fixed you're asking for the right

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Speaker 5: to censor me, and you just say, take my word.

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Speaker 2: It was terrible. This part is amazing.

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Speaker 1: Wasn't the typical reaction when the police show up at

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Speaker 1: somebody's door and they say, hey, we will leave.

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Speaker 3: You wrote this on the internet, they say.

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Speaker 8: In Germany, we say that's what my mos off, my zogenduff.

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Speaker 8: And so we here with crimes of talking posting an

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Speaker 8: internet and the people are surprised that this is really

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Speaker 8: illegal to post these kind of words.

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Speaker 3: They don't think it was illegal. Oh, they don't think

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Speaker 3: it was illegal.

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Speaker 8: And they say, no, that's my free speech, and we

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Speaker 8: say no, yeah, free speech as well, but it also

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Speaker 8: has limits.

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Speaker 2: I don't see. I don't, I can't. I've got to

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Speaker 2: accept that. It's just true that obviously, smart people in

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Speaker 2: charge of things can say words like that. How can

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Speaker 2: you sail it? Free speech has its limits, Well, then

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Speaker 2: it's not free speech. You just nullified the first part

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Speaker 2: of your sentence. What the second part of the sentence.

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Speaker 5: Everybody understands that there are certain limits, but they are

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Speaker 5: extremely limited limits. The people like this just say, hey,

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Speaker 5: because there are limits, there there can be more limits,

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Speaker 5: and I will decide what limits there are.

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Speaker 2: Control your soul's desire for freedom. Yeah, that's which I respond. No,

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Speaker 2: you don't get to decided. No freaking way control your

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Speaker 2: soul's desire for freedom, they say in China. This part

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Speaker 2: amazed me. I was unaware of this.

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Speaker 1: It's a legal to display Nazi symbolism, a swasika, deny

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Speaker 1: the Holocaust.

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Speaker 2: That's that's clear.

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Speaker 1: Is it a crime to insult somebody in public? Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: and it's a crime to insult them online as well.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 3: The fine could be even higher.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, if you insult someone in the internet, why because

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Speaker 8: in Internet it stays there. If we are talking at

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Speaker 8: face to face, you insult me and sold you okay, finish.

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Speaker 8: But if you're in the internet, if I insult you

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Speaker 8: or a politician, that.

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Speaker 9: Sticks around forever.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So she says to these three people, it's a fine,

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Speaker 2: there's a fine two in if you insult someone, and

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Speaker 2: they'll just say yeah, like you know, of course what

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Speaker 2: and what defines an insult?

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Speaker 5: And folks keep in mind, remember we're still in the

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Speaker 5: era certainly on university campuses and in government in some

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Speaker 5: other places where if you are insulted that's proof that

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Speaker 5: the other person is done wrong. You remember, I didn't

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Speaker 5: mean that to be racist. It doesn't matter what you meant,

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Speaker 5: it's how I received it, So you give the person

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Speaker 5: receiving it the carte blanche to declare whatever they want

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Speaker 5: to be insulting or hurtful, or racist or abusive, Islam

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Speaker 5: or whatever, and therefore that falls within.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's hate speech.

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Speaker 5: Sorry, we're going to take away your right to say

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Speaker 5: any to make any criticism that anybody could even implausibly

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Speaker 5: claim is insulting.

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Speaker 3: It's horrible.

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Speaker 2: So somebody posts the Chancellor is a moron, I assume

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Speaker 2: that would be a crime. Maybe you didn't post it,

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Speaker 2: maybe you just did this.

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Speaker 1: If somebody posts something that's not true and then somebody

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Speaker 1: else reposts it or likes it, are they committing a crime.

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Speaker 8: In the case of reposting it as a crime as well,

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Speaker 8: because the reader contistinguished whether you just invented this or

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Speaker 8: just reposted it.

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Speaker 3: That's the same for us.

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Speaker 2: So when I was listening to that one, I was

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Speaker 2: thinking about it was an official Biden Harris campaign ad

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Speaker 2: that way we had playing in the United States. Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump threatens a bloodbath if he loses, which was absolutely

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Speaker 2: a lie in misinformation on the side that sixty Minutes

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Speaker 2: is on. Would you consider that a crime or only

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Speaker 2: when it's coming from the other side. See that's that's

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Speaker 2: where the rubber meets the road on this whole thing

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Speaker 2: and it gets, you know, unworkable.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I happen to have a couple of articles, think pieces, etc.

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Speaker 5: That point out how incredibly one sided this is. It's

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Speaker 5: just a lust for power the other thing that really

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Speaker 5: and it's funny, we're talking about one of the most

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Speaker 5: fun ndamental human rights that any human beings ever enjoyed.

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Speaker 5: But you know what annoyed the crap out of me

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Speaker 5: was when they're and I'm not sure if we have

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Speaker 5: these clips, but they were talking about the fines, which

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Speaker 5: are fairly heavy. I mean it's thousands of dollars in

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Speaker 5: fines and multiple offenses can put you in jail. But

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Speaker 5: some people just have their phones and their laptops confiscated

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Speaker 5: for good.

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Speaker 2: They don't get them back.

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Speaker 5: And Cheryl Fonsi said, your phone, wow, because everything's on there.

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Speaker 2: That is tough.

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Speaker 5: And she was amused at the idea of these people

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Speaker 5: who indulged in what the Germans are calling hate speech

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Speaker 5: getting their devices taken away and not getting access to

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Speaker 5: them anymore.

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Speaker 2: She thought that was funny, an insensitive joke. They come

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Speaker 2: and take your laptop and your phone and you don't

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Speaker 2: get it back, and to a certain crowd, that's awesome.

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Speaker 2: This story I found amusing, but it.

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Speaker 1: Was a twenty twenty one case involving a local politician

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Speaker 1: named Andy Grot that captured the country's attention. Grow complained

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Speaker 1: about a tweet that called him a pimmel, a German

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Speaker 1: word for the mail, anatomy that triggered a police rate

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Speaker 1: and accusations of excessive censorship by the government. As prosecutors

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Speaker 1: explain to us, in Germany, it's okay to debate politics online,

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Speaker 1: but it can be a crime to call anyone a pimle,

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Speaker 1: even a politician. So it sounds like you're saying it's

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Speaker 1: okay to criticize a politician's policy, but not to say

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Speaker 1: I think you're a jerk and idiot.

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Speaker 3: Exactly. Yeah, commen's like your son of a bitch. Excuse

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Speaker 3: me forward. This word has nothing to.

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Speaker 8: Do with a political discussions or a contribution.

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Speaker 3: To a discussion.

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Speaker 2: But that's amazing.

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Speaker 5: It's one of the great canards that sensors use. Here's

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Speaker 5: an example where I'm censoring something reasonably right, and then

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Speaker 5: you're supposed to extrapolate from there therefore, I trust you

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Speaker 5: to censor whenever you want. F you know, and you

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Speaker 5: are a piml a table full of pimbles, right.

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Speaker 2: I kept thinking that as they used various examples. I thought, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it'd be nice if you could censor that and not

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Speaker 2: other stuff. But once you open the door, then you

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Speaker 2: start making choices, and who's making those choices? And he

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Speaker 2: gets out of hand really really fast.

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Speaker 5: A little more from this absolute abhorrent sixty minutes driving

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Speaker 5: a nail in their own coffin report after a word

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Speaker 5: from our friends at Simply Save Home Security, every twenty

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Speaker 5: six seconds a burglary takes place in the US courting

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Speaker 5: the FBI. That means by the time this commercial ends,

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Speaker 5: dozens of homes will have been targeted and a couple

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Speaker 5: broken into.

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Speaker 2: a couple of years, whether you like it or not.

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Speaker 5: In traditional security systems only take action after the pimol

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Speaker 5: is broken in.

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Speaker 2: That's too late.

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Speaker 2: Again.

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Speaker 5: That's simplysafe dot com slash armstrong fifty percent off. There's

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Speaker 5: no safe flight simply Safe.

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Speaker 2: We'll have to play some more of this from the

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Speaker 2: sixty minutes when we come back, some more amazing stories.

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Speaker 2: But we all lived through this in the United States,

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Speaker 2: so we know how off track this can get so fast.

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Speaker 2: When it was basically against the rules to say, you know,

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Speaker 2: I think the virus probably came out of that lab,

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Speaker 2: you couldn't say it for a couple of years.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, or you would be punished, maybe not by law

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Speaker 5: enforce in the ways we're used to. But you would

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Speaker 5: be punished by proxy by the government.

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Speaker 2: And CBS, it would seem, and many others. A lot

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Speaker 2: of college professors want it to be against the law

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Speaker 2: to post misinformation and again.

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Speaker 5: Misinformation like if you get the inoculation, you can still

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Speaker 5: get COVID and you can still spread it.

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Speaker 2: That is dangerous misinformation. Wow, it's scary. One true, they're

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Speaker 2: so enthusiastic about it there in Germany, and then we

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Speaker 2: got and then CBS is enthusiastic about it too. That

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Speaker 2: is freaking frightening. We got a lot more on the way.

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Speaker 1: I can show your soul's desire for freedom.

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Speaker 2: SNL fifty anniversary special that I watched the whole thing

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Speaker 2: on Sunday night. I was highly amused.

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Speaker 5: I had to stop, like a lot of people after

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Speaker 5: an early sketch. I went back to it later, but

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Speaker 5: it was incredibly annoying.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't believe the star studded audience. Oh my god,

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Speaker 2: that was That was quite the collection of famous people

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Speaker 2: in one room. We're focusing a little bit on sixty

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Speaker 2: minutes from Sunday night because it was one of the

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Speaker 2: more astounding things I've ever seen and I've watched practically

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Speaker 2: every Sixty Minutes episode of the last forty years. That

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Speaker 2: was just crazy CBS's enthusiasm for cracking down on free speech,

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Speaker 2: and they're sort of like portraying Germany's models. Isn't this

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Speaker 2: fantastic how they'll arrest you if you insult somebody, or

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Speaker 2: if you put a cartoon somebody doesn't like on the internet,

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Speaker 2: or if you engage in misinformation and disinformation.

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Speaker 5: I would characterize it as sixty Minutes gets an enthusiastic

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Speaker 5: lesson from the Germans on how to crack down on

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Speaker 5: irresponsible speech.

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Speaker 2: There's a little of German authorities laying out how it works.

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Speaker 1: Josephine Ballone is a CEO of Hate eight, a Berlin

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Speaker 1: based human rights organization that supports victims of online violence.

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Speaker 9: In the United States.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people look at this and say, this

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Speaker 1: is restricting free speech. It's a threat to democracy.

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Speaker 4: Free speech needs boundaries, and in the case of Germany,

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Speaker 4: these boundaries are part of our constitution. Without boundaries, a

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Speaker 4: very small group of people can rely on endless freedom

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Speaker 4: to say anything that they want while everyone else is

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Speaker 4: scared and intimidated.

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Speaker 1: In your fears that if people are freely attacked online

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Speaker 1: that they'll withdraw from the discussion.

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Speaker 4: This is not only a field, it's already taking place.

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Speaker 3: Already.

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Speaker 4: Half of the Internet users in Germany are afraid to

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Speaker 4: express their political opinion and they rarely participate in public

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Speaker 4: debates online anymore, half of the internet users.

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Speaker 2: I'm honest to god, I was listening to this in

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Speaker 2: my car. I had to pull over my car and

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Speaker 2: replay that. I was so amazed at what that woman

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Speaker 2: just said. So first of all, she says, without boundaries,

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Speaker 2: a small group of people could control the conversation, and

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Speaker 2: with boundaries, a small group of people controls the conversation.

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Speaker 2: And I mean, come on, obviously, And then she says, uh,

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Speaker 2: what did she say? It lit it on my mind

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Speaker 2: was the next thing she said. Damn it. I got

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Speaker 2: so worked up over the first part. How does she

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Speaker 2: not understand that, Yeah, a few people control the conversation.

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Speaker 2: Then you argue against them. So you're suggesting a small

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Speaker 2: group of people control the entire conversation.

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Speaker 3: Oh.

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Speaker 2: The second part was if you have there are people

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Speaker 2: out there that are intimidated to put things online because

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Speaker 2: somebody will say something mean to them. So you want

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Speaker 2: rules where everybody's intimidated to say what they think because

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Speaker 2: they'll Linda find her in jail. What are you talking about? Yeah?

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Speaker 5: And just as an American the history of who gets

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Speaker 5: ruined and run out of their career and harassed and

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Speaker 5: docked because they made a politically incorrect comment many years ago.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it cuts both ways, doesn't it. And then fine,

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Speaker 2: and then this little part here where this politician was

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Speaker 2: talking about how she had been in online or wronged

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Speaker 2: online and how she handled it, the little one ady

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Speaker 2: the b This court said, in case of.

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Speaker 9: Public servants which have public offices and jobs, it's public

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Speaker 9: interest that their personal rights are protected, because otherwise no

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Speaker 9: one would go for these jobs. You know that wore

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Speaker 9: tom democracy.

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Speaker 1: After all this, are you seeing less hateful comments now

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Speaker 1: on your social media feeds?

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Speaker 9: Yes, there are less hateful comments. And there was one

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Speaker 9: tweet which says, don't say that to her, she will

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Speaker 9: take you to court.

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Speaker 2: You might sue them.

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Speaker 3: I might sue them.

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Speaker 2: And the cherway of Ponzi was just, oh, yes, you

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Speaker 2: might sue them. Isn't that great? Somebody said something negative

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Speaker 2: of you about you online and you'll sue them. That's fantastic. JD.

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Speaker 5: Vance's fabulous speech in front of the Euros. In a

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Speaker 5: related story, stay with US Armstrong and Getty in Munich.

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Speaker 3: This week, Vice President JD.

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Speaker 5: Vance stunned America's European allies by saying it is their

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Speaker 5: governments and not Russia or China that represent the biggest

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Speaker 5: threat to security in the region.

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Speaker 10: The threat that I worry the most about visa the

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Speaker 10: Europe is not Russia, it's not China, it's not any

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Speaker 10: other external actor. And what I worry about is the

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Speaker 10: threat from within the retreat of Europe from some of

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Speaker 10: its most fundamental values.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going to get a little more of what

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Speaker 2: JD said in Europe, and he is talking about this

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Speaker 2: free speech stuff. We're talking a lot about it this

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Speaker 2: hour because it's well one, it's a really, really big deal,

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Speaker 2: and Joe and I are really into it. But I

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Speaker 2: continue to be shocked. We got a text from somebody

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Speaker 2: who said, yeah, I saw the promos for sixty minutes

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Speaker 2: and I just assumed they were going to take a

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Speaker 2: somewhat adversarial approach as a news outlet to what they're

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Speaker 2: doing in Germany. But no, they were cheerleaders for the

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Speaker 2: fact that Germany is censoring all kinds of speech, which

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Speaker 2: is interesting. But anyway to jd Vance's attack on Europe,

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Speaker 2: which the Europeans did not take well, specifically the Germans.

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Speaker 2: He gave the speech in Munich. This is from the

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Speaker 2: Financial Times. A prominent German politician told me that was

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Speaker 2: a direct assault on European democracy. The senior diplomat said,

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Speaker 2: it is very clear now Europe is alone. When I

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Speaker 2: ask him if he now regarded the US as an adversary,

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Speaker 2: he replied yes, the senior German diplomat Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 5: More analysis of the back and forth to come. But

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Speaker 5: let's get jd Vance in his own words. First ball,

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Speaker 5: flesh out the thing you already heard ninety two.

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Speaker 10: Michael, The threat that I worry the most about visa

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Speaker 10: e Europe is not Russia, it's not China, it's not

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Speaker 10: any other external actor. And what I worry about is

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Speaker 10: the threat from within, the retreat of Europe from some

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Speaker 10: of its most fundamental values, values shared with the United

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Speaker 10: States of America.

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Speaker 2: Well, that just added one half a sentence. Sorry, next clip.

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Speaker 10: And speaking up and expressing opinions isn't election interference, even

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Speaker 10: when people express views outside your own country, and even

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Speaker 10: when those people are very influential. And trust me, I

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Speaker 10: say this with all humor. If American democracy can survive

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Speaker 10: ten years of Thunberg scolding you guys can survive a

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Speaker 10: few months of Elon Musk. But what German democracy, what

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Speaker 10: no democracy, American, German or European will survive, is telling

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Speaker 10: millions of voters that their thoughts and concerns, their aspirations,

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Speaker 10: their pleas for relief are invalid or unworthy of even

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Speaker 10: being considered.

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Speaker 2: Yet, I remember if he said it in a speech

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Speaker 2: or just an interviewed afterwards, the rise of some of

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Speaker 2: these parties on the right is because they're not getting

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Speaker 2: that their voice is not heard in any way.

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Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, Indeed, that was the point I was going

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Speaker 5: to get to a little more of JD. If you

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Speaker 5: were afraid of the voices, the opinions, and the conscience

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Speaker 5: that guide your own people, then there's nothing America can

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Speaker 5: do for you. Among the problems he went on to

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Speaker 5: list where governments dismissing voters concerns, shutting down their media,

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Speaker 5: and violating the basic liberties of the religious and as

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Speaker 5: Jack points out, and I've said so many times, if

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Speaker 5: you either instill enough fear or you actually regulate it

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Speaker 5: to the point that your mainstream can't express what your

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Speaker 5: people are feeling. Parties are gonna rise up on the

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Speaker 5: far right or the far left. They're gonna express those feelings,

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Speaker 5: and people who normally wouldn't be attracted to them are

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Speaker 5: gonna say, finally, that party speaks for me.

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Speaker 2: I'm going with that party. Yeah, but they're neo Nazis.

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Speaker 2: I don't care.

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Speaker 5: They're the first party that says what I feel. If

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Speaker 5: you want extremism, suppress people's speech, tell them what's not

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Speaker 5: accept to say. That's how you get That's how you

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Speaker 5: get extremism.

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Speaker 2: Well, to a certain extent. That's how Trump got elected.

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Speaker 2: I mean the people that vote for him despite you know,

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Speaker 2: the flaws that they don't like. It's like, uh, you

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Speaker 2: constantly see reality not being your reality, not being expressed

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Speaker 2: in mainstream media. It's very angry.

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Speaker 5: So in response to what Vance just said and more

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Speaker 5: that we hadn't played, the German Defense Minister said that

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Speaker 5: Vance's words were quote not acceptable, which beautifully made Vance's point.

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Speaker 5: There was the VP of the United States arguing that

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Speaker 5: the Europeans had become far too comfortable telling people what

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Speaker 5: they could and could not say, and instead of developing

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Speaker 5: a counter theory, the first official the issue or a

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Speaker 5: joinder told him he shouldn't have said that. Thank you

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Speaker 5: for making my point for me, Hair official, Sir, unbelievable.

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Speaker 2: One of my favorite pundits said, in Europe, especially in Germany,

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Speaker 2: you have basically two choices. Either you agree with the

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Speaker 2: prevailing narrative on issues like COVID, climate, immigration, Trump, in

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Speaker 2: which case you are a responsible, kind, democratic and all

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Speaker 2: the other approving adjectives and everything is fine in your life.

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Speaker 2: Or you question or disagree with the direction on any

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Speaker 2: of those things and think that your leaders might not

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Speaker 2: be getting it right, in which case you're a populist

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Speaker 2: or racist. You're uneducated, of course, you're far far right

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00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 2: or far right in you're a threat to the country

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Speaker 2: and your views need to be taken off the Internet

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Speaker 2: or shut down or find if you express them in public.

442
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 5: So Marco Rubio was interviewed on Face the Nation by

443
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,879
Speaker 5: the absolute idiot Margaret Brennan. That would get me a

444
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 5: jail time in Germany.

445
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 2: For no, it's.

446
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 5: Astonishing her lack of wisdom. It's like a some girl

447
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 5: who was raised in the woods like Nellen doesn't have

448
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 5: the power of speech. She appears to be a normal intelligence,

449
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 5: but is so completely blind to the realities of the world.

450
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,879
Speaker 5: She just doesn't make any sense. But she interviewed Marco

451
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 5: Rubio and I want to get to her most influenced

452
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:08,199
Speaker 5: I'm sorry infamous in the idiotic clip. But first this

453
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,160
Speaker 5: about the speech in general ninety four, I.

454
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,360
Speaker 6: Want to ask you about what happened in Munich, Germany.

455
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 6: At the Security conference, Vice President Vance gave a speech

456
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 6: and he told us allies that the threat he worries

457
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 6: about the most is not Russia, it is not China.

458
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 6: He called it the threat from within, and he lectured

459
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 6: about what he described as censorship, mainly focusing though on

460
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 6: including more views from the right. He also met with

461
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 6: the leader of a far right party known as the AfD, which,

462
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 6: as you know, is under investigation and monitoring by German

463
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 6: intelligence because of extremism.

464
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 2: What did all of.

465
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 6: This accomplish other than irritating our allies, Well, why would.

466
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 11: Our allies there anybody be irritated by free speech and

467
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 11: by someone giving their opinion. We are, after all, democracies.

468
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:01,360
Speaker 11: Thesic Munich Security Conference is largely a conference of democracies.

469
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 11: In which one of the things that we cherish in

470
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 11: value is the ability to speak feely and provide your opinions.

471
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 11: And so I think if anyone's angry about his word,

472
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,199
Speaker 11: they don't have to agree with him, but to be

473
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 11: angry about it, I think actually makes this point.

474
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:17,639
Speaker 5: Whether it's the American left or you know, in the past,

475
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 5: the right, or the Europeans. It's like talking to somebody

476
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 5: who doesn't understands steam. There's a boiling pot and there's

477
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,360
Speaker 5: steam pouring out of it, and they say, don't worry,

478
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 5: I'll take care of this steam. And they clamp the

479
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 5: lid down, and then they're astounded by what happens next.

480
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,719
Speaker 5: Unbelievable lack of wisdom. And then Jack, unless you want

481
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 5: to jump in there, this which should go down and

482
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:45,680
Speaker 5: broadcast in for me for the rest of time.

483
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just going to point out. Jonathan Turley

484
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:49,679
Speaker 2: wrote a great column in The New York Post yesterday,

485
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 2: Vance rightly excoriates europe what values are we defending and

486
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 2: compared the speech to Reagan's mister Garbichev, tear down this

487
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 2: wall speech, and it's possible importance for the culture of

488
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 2: free speech and different points of view. But he also

489
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 2: what Bill Crystal of CNN, who used to be at

490
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 2: the Weekly Standard and his dad is one of the

491
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 2: fathers of conservativism or whatever, said said the speech was

492
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 2: a humiliation for the United States and a confirmation that

493
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 2: this administration isn't on the side of the democracies. Yeah, wow,

494
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 2: absolutely amazing.

495
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 5: And Vance's greater point geo politically speaking, was that, hey, dudes,

496
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 5: you're not listening to your people.

497
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 2: That steam is building up.

498
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 5: It's expressing itself in whether the AfD in Germany or

499
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 5: whatever parties that you marine La penn in France in

500
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 5: ways that you don't like. So how about you let

501
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 5: people release that steam and you listen to your people.

502
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,719
Speaker 5: Otherwise you are going to crumble and we will not

503
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 5: have you as allies anymore because you have crumbled.

504
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 2: So it's a very very practical strategy.

505
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 5: It's not just like he was making a rhetorical argument

506
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 5: because he likes to argue. He sees our allies falling apart.

507
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 5: And then this again, this moment. You know, if I

508
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,439
Speaker 5: was going to limit free speech, I would revoke CBS's

509
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 5: license to broadcast based purely on the sheer stupidity of

510
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 5: clip ninety six.

511
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,199
Speaker 6: He was standing in a country where free speech was

512
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 6: weaponized to conduct a genocide, and he met with the

513
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 6: head of a political party that has far right views

514
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 6: and some historic ties to extreme groups. The context of

515
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 6: that was changing the tone of it.

516
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 2: And you know that that.

517
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 6: The censorship disagree with you specifically about the right.

518
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 11: Now I have to disagree with you. The free speech

519
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 11: was not used to conduct a genocide. The genocide was

520
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 11: conducted by an authoritarian Nazi regime that happened to also

521
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 11: be genocidal because they hated Jews, and they hated minorities,

522
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 11: and they hated those that they had a list of

523
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,959
Speaker 11: people they hated, but primarily the Jews. There was no

524
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 11: free speech in Nazi Germany.

525
00:27:58,359 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 2: There was none.

526
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 11: There was also no OP position in Nazi Germany. They

527
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,919
Speaker 11: were a sole and only party that governed that country.

528
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 11: So that's not an accurate reflection of history.

529
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 5: A phrase weaponized free speech is something well and tag

530
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 5: me Marco, I want to jump in here. Far from

531
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 5: being an example of free speech weaponized to conduct a genocide,

532
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:23,360
Speaker 5: Germany under Hitler was engaged in precisely the sort of

533
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 5: democratic authoritarianism that Vance was condemning. It was exactly the

534
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 5: opposite of what the ninny Margaret Brennan suggested. He was

535
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 5: standing in a country where a free speech was weaponized

536
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 5: to commit a genocide. Good lord, what an ignoramus. Uh.

537
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 2: What Jonathan Turley calls the haymaker from Vance's speech is

538
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 2: when he said, if you're running in fear of your

539
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 2: own voters, there's nothing American can do for you. Nor,

540
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 2: for the matter, is there anything you can do for

541
00:28:55,360 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 2: the American people that elected me and Donald Trump. If

542
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 2: you're running in fear from your own voters, there's nothing

543
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 2: America can do for you. And that's what they're doing

544
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 2: with the censorship. They don't like the point of view

545
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 2: of a big chunk of their countries, and so they're

546
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 2: trying to outlaw that point of view, which is not

547
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 2: going to work. Yeah.

548
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 5: Their inability to deal with steam, as I described it before,

549
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 5: is partly practical because the steam is rising because of

550
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 5: their policies, namely rampant immigration, open immigration from the Muslim

551
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 5: world especially, and also economic policies.

552
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 2: But the other part of it is ideological.

553
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 5: They are so intensely uncomfortable with the conversation about, Hey,

554
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 5: we've let all these people who do not share our values,

555
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 5: They do not share our culture. In fact, they despise

556
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 5: our culture, and they've been tasked with overturning it in

557
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 5: the name of Sharia, for instance.

558
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 2: This is not good.

559
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 5: They are so intensely uncomfortable with that for political correctness

560
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,040
Speaker 5: reasons to use the cliched old phrase that they I

561
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 5: can't even permit it, and so they cheerfully inform a

562
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 5: cheerful share in ALPHONSI on CBS that, well, free speech

563
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 5: has its limits.

564
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 2: We must we must correl.

565
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 5: It, so nobody says anything rude and we will just

566
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 5: clamp that lid on and that'll get rid of the steam.

567
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 2: Well, good luck, And let me guess you could say

568
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 2: practically anything about people on the right and that wouldn't

569
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 2: be considered rude or an attack or anything like that.

570
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 5: That just facts, just facts. Oh yeah, it's entirely one sided.

571
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 2: That is really something. What a very very frightening weekend

572
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:32,719
Speaker 2: from the standpoint of free speech.

573
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 5: But you know, getting back to Reagan's mister Garbachev's speech,

574
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 5: I think Turley's not overstating how important it is to

575
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 5: go to their homes say that out loud in front

576
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 5: of the world. Y'all are committing suicide because you don't

577
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 5: listen to your people.

578
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 2: If you had any comments on that, you could Our

579
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 2: text line is four one five two nine KFTC.

580
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 7: Fun fact, a person born during the first season of

581
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 7: Saturday Night Live could today be easily dead of natural costume.

582
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 2: Now you're going to see a lot of familiar things.

583
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 7: Tonight, musical guest sketches, cameo appearances, the news, and this

584
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 7: is the monologue, traditionally the weakest part of the show. Yes,

585
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 7: the monologue is like a rent controlled tenant.

586
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 2: It's not going anywhere, even though it stinks. I thought

587
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 2: the Saturday A Live Show is really, really entertaining. I

588
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 2: really enjoyed it. I thought it was the opening. So

589
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 2: they opened with Paul Simon and a musical thing with

590
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 2: the hot it girl of the time, that Sabrina Carpenter

591
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 2: Werman who shows up everywhere. It's funny how the whole

592
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 2: it girl thing is is for real. Save your money, dear,

593
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 2: you can yet up kidding because there'll be another hot

594
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 2: young blonde come along. But I liked her line about

595
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 2: the famous Paul Simon George Harryson duet from way back

596
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 2: in the day, Like second season or something like that

597
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 2: on Sarah Life, and she said I wasn't even born

598
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 2: yet and neither were my parents. And I thought, holy crap,

599
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 2: that's true. Her parents weren't important yet. I thought the

600
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 2: big giant musical number at the end about New York

601
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 2: and everything with John Mulaney as an area, I thought, Wow,

602
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 2: that was some art. That was some amazing stuff there,

603
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 2: just really really cool.

604
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 5: I was shocked if you didn't see at the extent

605
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 5: to which it was new comedy. Yeah, with just zillions

606
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 5: of I assumed they'd be a flashback show, and it

607
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 5: had some, but it was mostly newly produced stuff and

608
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 5: a lot of it was really good. A lot of

609
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 5: it was not, but that's the nature of you know,

610
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 5: that sketch comedy. Yeah, that was a lot of the

611
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 5: more famous sketches, like the the being abducted by alien

612
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 5: stuff and just you know. Anyway, they displayed Kneed Meryl

613
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 5: Streep as guests star.

614
00:32:55,560 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty funny. I thought, Eddie Murphy doing Tracy Morgan's

615
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 2: standing next to Tracy Morgan was pretty dang hilarious. Yes,

616
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 2: that was very funny. And Ken Topson say you too,

617
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 2: you could be related, and Tracy Morgan says, I don't

618
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 2: see it. Oh, I left so hard at that show.

619
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 5: Let me acknowledge briefly the infamous Dug thing where the

620
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 5: punchline of the black Jeopardy sketch was that a Trump

621
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 5: supporter is such as stupid racist he won't even shake

622
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 5: the hand of a black man, right, at which I

623
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 5: turned it.

624
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 2: Off for a while. I was like, no, sorry, you

625
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 2: don't want me okay, bye. So a different topic here

626
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 2: came across this on the NPR feed. So I don't

627
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 2: use emojis, but the rest of you people do for

628
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 2: some reason. And apparently if you do a thumbs up,

629
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 2: there are six different skin colors you can choose for

630
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 2: the thumbs up. There used to just be yellow, but

631
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 2: now there's yellow, I don't know, slightly, tan, more tan,

632
00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 2: even more tan, Brown, and black are your choices, and

633
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 2: it's like a paint chip. You get a thrd worse store.

634
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 2: And NPR had an article which I didn't click on

635
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 2: and read that said some white people may choose the

636
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 2: yellow thumbs up because it feels neutral, but academics argue

637
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 2: opting out of the actual white guy thumb I guess

638
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 2: signals a lack of awareness about white privilege, akin to

639
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 2: society associating whiteness with being raceless. So it's kind of

640
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 2: the whole anti racist thing. If you choose the yellow

641
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 2: guy thumbs up, it is a racist move because you're

642
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 2: claiming there's a neutral or something. I don't know what

643
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 2: it was, but I just found that quite hilarious.

644
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 5: And everything is based on race all the time, so

645
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 5: you need to pick an accurate skin tone and then

646
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 5: acknowledge your white thumbs up supremacy. You know what, you people,

647
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 5: you had your day and you're still having it in

648
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 5: government to some extent and on campuses. But we're coming

649
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 5: for you.

650
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 2: We had this story a couple of weeks ago. It's obvious,

651
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 2: but I hadn't thought about it before. But now I

652
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 2: think about it every time I hear academics say or

653
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 2: experts say. I got to remember that academics and experts

654
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 2: are like, depending on the uh, what their expertise is,

655
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 2: one hundred percent of them are progressives. Sometimes it gets

656
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 2: down to as few as ninety eight percent of them

657
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 2: are progressives. But so if you go to experts, they're

658
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 2: all on one side. So of course the experts say this, yeah, yeah,

659
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 2: just remember this.

660
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 5: If an expert's quoted. There's a good chance that is

661
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 5: a professor. Professors are the media's favorite experts, and if

662
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 5: it's a professor, it's going to be a progressive person

663
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:34,720
Speaker 5: almost always.

664
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 2: So yeah, you're incredibly one side. Experts think this is dangerous. Okay,

665
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 2: so you ask progressives and nobody else. But that's hilarious.

666
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 2: You're showing your white privilege if you don't, if you

667
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 2: if you use the yellow thumbs up. So think think

668
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 2: about that throughout the day. I just like the Simpsons.

669
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 2: You evil be funny, racist bastard. N PR has that

670
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 2: been defunded yet? Please not yet Doje's working on it.

671
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 2: We got a lot more on the way and some

672
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 2: of the news of the day. They're meeting in Saudi

673
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,399
Speaker 2: Arabia right now about trying to wind down the war

674
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 2: in Ukraine, among other things. Armstrong and Getty