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Speaker 1: The club expects their golf proth and their assistant pros

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Speaker 1: to make sure everything's perfect.

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Speaker 2: We want a club row that can play like Tiger,

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Speaker 2: teach like butch merchandise like Ralph Lauren, and tell jokes

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Speaker 2: like Bob Hope.

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Speaker 3: Right, it is absolutely The problem is the amount of

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Speaker 3: pay for the amount of work.

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Speaker 4: It doesn't mesh for clubs.

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Speaker 5: If you don't make these changes, you're not going to

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Speaker 5: get the people you want.

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Speaker 4: Your product is going to suffer.

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Speaker 5: People are not going to want to come play there,

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Speaker 5: They're going to go elsewhere, and you're eventually going to

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Speaker 5: go out of business.

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Speaker 1: Is seth while helping He's the right guy in the

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Speaker 1: driver's seat, But is there a vehicle he can drive

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Speaker 1: that can make it any better?

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Speaker 2: People are put on earth to make everybody's lives better, right, Like?

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Speaker 2: How can he not want to be surrounded by those people?

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Speaker 1: Right then?

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Speaker 4: And that's what our PGA professional is.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's not perfect, We're not perfect times far

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Speaker 2: from perfect.

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Speaker 4: We're moving the needle, making a lot.

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Speaker 2: Of progress and I hope people are noticing it. But

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Speaker 2: that's not the point either, right. The point is leaving

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Speaker 2: the room better. And I'm going to keep fighting to

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Speaker 2: do that every day.

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Speaker 6: Put another log on the fire Nobody here is given time.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to the fire Pit with Matt Janella.

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Speaker 7: We're back for the fifth episode of this podcast series

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Speaker 7: on the club pro crisis. This week we're looking at

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Speaker 7: it through the lens of the PGA of America's Professional

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Speaker 7: Golf Management. University programs one of two paths to becoming

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Speaker 7: APGA member. For more on both paths, go to PGA

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Speaker 7: dot org. Forward Slash membership in a four and a

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Speaker 7: half to five year program involving classroom courses, paid internships,

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Speaker 7: and opportunities for player development. There are currently sevenine teen

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Speaker 7: nationwide universities that offer these PGM programs while students simultaneously

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Speaker 7: get a bachelor's degree in marketing or business administration, hospitality administration,

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Speaker 7: recreation and park management. One of the participating universities is

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Speaker 7: Penn State, and today we're talking to doctor Bryan Soul,

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Speaker 7: an associate teaching professor at Penn State for fifteen years.

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Speaker 7: You'll hear Soul say that for the one hundred one

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Speaker 7: hundred and twenty students in their program, they get five

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Speaker 7: to eight internship offers per student. If you missed Part one,

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Speaker 7: you missed some history of club pros from people like

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Speaker 7: Butch Harmon.

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Speaker 1: The old days, when you've got a good job, you

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Speaker 1: just stayed there forever, and the members treated you like

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Speaker 1: a member.

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Speaker 4: You were great with them.

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Speaker 1: And so I think what's evolved now is the club's

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Speaker 1: down all the amenities. They own, the pro shops, they own,

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Speaker 1: the cards, they owned, the backrooms, they own the driving ranges.

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Speaker 1: Pros are paid a salary and a little percentage of stuffs.

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Speaker 1: It's a different incentive world for guys to get into business.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 4: The people said to you all the time, well.

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Speaker 1: You've been a golf pro your whole life. When you

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Speaker 1: were a club pro, you must have played a lot

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Speaker 1: of golf. No, not really. You're always working. You work

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Speaker 1: every holiday, you work every weekend. It's a hard job.

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Speaker 1: Now you have corporations on these clubs. They got the

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Speaker 1: pros punch and time clocks. You know. Well, hr says

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Speaker 1: you can only work forty hours a week. Well, heck

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Speaker 1: we we being a golf pro my whole life. I

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Speaker 1: turned probem to sixty five. We worked the sun when

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Speaker 1: the sun was up, we worked when the sun went down,

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Speaker 1: and we went home. That's not the way it is anymore.

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Speaker 1: It's a totally different environment. I'm not saying it's good

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Speaker 1: or bad. I'm just saying it's not the one that

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Speaker 1: I grew up in and the one I lived in.

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Speaker 7: We've heard from Rick Riley of Wiltshire Country Club for

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Speaker 7: over thirty years, whose father is in the pg of

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Speaker 7: America's Hall of Fame.

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Speaker 3: It's a great place to be, but you know, once

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Speaker 3: the end, you got to put in the hours. You

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Speaker 3: got to have a love for it. I mean, my

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Speaker 3: dad always said there's two to be a good PGA professional.

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Speaker 3: You got five points. You got to be a player.

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Speaker 3: You got to be a teacher. You got to be

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Speaker 3: an administrator, you got to be a rules expert. Probably

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Speaker 3: most important, you have to be a people person. You

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Speaker 3: cannot survive on my side of the business if you

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Speaker 3: don't interact with people well and take care of people.

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Speaker 7: And we've heard from Shane Ryan, author of the golf

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Speaker 7: digestory entitled The Club pro Crisis, which was published in

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Speaker 7: May of twenty twenty two. Ryan on the harsh reality

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Speaker 7: of the industry.

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Speaker 5: It felt like I was learning, on one hand about

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Speaker 5: an industry that is fundamentally broken in terms of the

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Speaker 5: working conditions that club pros exist under that there is

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Speaker 5: so much demanded of them that there is a system

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Speaker 5: in place where this was you know, I won't say

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Speaker 5: it was fine with people, but it was standard and

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Speaker 5: it was expected. And all of a sudden, a new

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Speaker 5: generation is coming up saying we don't want to work

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Speaker 5: like this, and so, you know, places are losing their pros.

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Speaker 5: But they're faced with a reality where to meet the

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Speaker 5: to meet the standards of what people how they want

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Speaker 5: to work now saying Okay, maybe you know, you get

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Speaker 5: a weekend off once in a while, maybe only work

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Speaker 5: fifty hours a week instead of seventy or eighty. It

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Speaker 5: would mean hiring more people, and that's something that they

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Speaker 5: don't want to do for obvious reasons, right because that

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Speaker 5: affects their budget and their bottom line. But the reality

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Speaker 5: is the clubs who are not doing that are falling

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Speaker 5: behind because either they can't fill positions or when they

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Speaker 5: do fill positions, they're not filling them with the best people.

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Speaker 5: And so you have this unbelievable sort of schism between

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Speaker 5: what is expected, whether you're you know, the board at

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Speaker 5: a club or the manager of a club versus what

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Speaker 5: is the reality of what club pros want to do

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Speaker 5: with their jobs, and so were the gap between it

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Speaker 5: is so wide, and it got worse during the pandemic,

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Speaker 5: and it's hard to see sometimes how it gets better.

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Speaker 7: Meanwhile, in Part four, Seth Waugh, the PGA of America's

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Speaker 7: CEO since twenty eighteen, talked about what he's doing to

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Speaker 7: try and leave the room better than he found it.

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Speaker 2: I think we've flipped the prism on the game. And

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Speaker 2: I think you know, the greatest thing about what's going

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Speaker 2: on right now, Matt, is the game has had its

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Speaker 2: ups and downs, for sure, but for the first time,

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Speaker 2: and it's it's it's history. Golf is cool, and golf's

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Speaker 2: never been cool, right, and and that's awesome, and we

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Speaker 2: need to make sure we continue to promote that right

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Speaker 2: and have all these different ways to consume it now. Right,

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Speaker 2: you have top golf, you have putt putt and all

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Speaker 2: kinds of different forms you've got, you know, simulators you've got.

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Speaker 2: And again, I've always believed, like you know, if you

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Speaker 2: go shoot hoops in your backyard, you played basketball that day.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't five on five with reps, right, but it

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Speaker 2: was it was it was hoops and and so you know,

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Speaker 2: if you put on your carpet today you play golf

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Speaker 2: and and you know and you took it. You know,

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Speaker 2: check out your swinging in a mirror like you played

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Speaker 2: golf that day. And we've got to embrace it in

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Speaker 2: every form we possibly can't part threes, three holes, you know,

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Speaker 2: hitt and balls in the way like yes, like work

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Speaker 2: for all of it every day. Anything that is good

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Speaker 2: for the game is ultimately good for our professionals. And

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Speaker 2: so we're going to promote it and every way we

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Speaker 2: can and celebrate it.

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Speaker 7: Before we get to my conversation with doctor Soule and

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Speaker 7: we hear from one of his former students, I want

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156
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Speaker 7: I found the Bishop Brothers at the PGA Merchandise Show

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Speaker 7: about ten years ago. I've been promoting their people and

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Speaker 8: My name is Brian Soulet. I'm a PGA professional and

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Speaker 8: an assistant teaching professor at Penn State University with the

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Speaker 8: PGA Golf Management Program. I've been here for fourteen years.

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Speaker 7: This idea that there is a club pro crisis. Do

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Speaker 7: you buy into that concept?

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Speaker 9: I think so. I think.

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Speaker 8: In the past decade or so, we've seen a huge

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Speaker 8: shift from golf facilities being able to pick and choose

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Speaker 8: their employees and really get a lot of applicants for

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Speaker 8: great positions. And in recent years we've seen that flip

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Speaker 8: so at Penn State, we have about one hundred to

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Speaker 8: one hundred and twenty students, and we're getting between five

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Speaker 8: and eight positions posted with our program per student just

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Speaker 8: for internships.

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Speaker 9: So we have.

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Speaker 8: Up to one thousand facilities that will contact us each

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Speaker 8: year asking for access to our one hundred students. So

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Speaker 8: the industry clearly is hungry for good new talent, and

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Speaker 8: we're starting to see the benefits of that for our students,

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Speaker 8: which is great. You know, it's giving opportunities for them

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Speaker 8: to pick and choose the best jobs in the industry.

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Speaker 8: But that's on the flip side. You know, your green

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Speaker 8: grass facilities specifically are the ones who are struggling because

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Speaker 8: they're struggling to find really good qualified help.

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Speaker 7: And yet I'm also hearing and reading about and learning

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Speaker 7: of about PGM programs closing all over. You know, at

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Speaker 7: one point there wasn't a lot of them, then there

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Speaker 7: was a lot of them, and now there's less of them.

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Speaker 8: There was an influx of programs, So Penn State was

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Speaker 8: one of the first four and that was what it

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Speaker 8: was for decades until the early two thousands.

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Speaker 9: It took off.

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Speaker 8: I think at the peak there were twenty PGA accredited

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Speaker 8: university programs. Now we're down to seventeen, and it feels

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Speaker 8: like that's a leveling out. I'm a Clemson graduate and

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Speaker 8: we're the most recent program to close. It was Clemson University.

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Speaker 8: It was kind of the perfect storm there of the

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Speaker 8: COVID crisis of rising costs and higher education right and

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Speaker 8: them looking for programs that were a little bit under enrolled.

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Speaker 8: So I think we're probably at a leveling off now.

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Speaker 8: We're starting to see an uptick in student enrollments across

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Speaker 8: the country, So I'm hoping that that means that that

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Speaker 8: kind of the level that we're at right now is

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Speaker 8: where we'll stay for the for the foreseeable future.

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Speaker 7: From the time that you went to Clemson to what

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Speaker 7: you are now teaching, how has the education of the

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Speaker 7: club pro the PGA pro evolved.

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Speaker 9: In your mind?

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Speaker 8: That's a good question. It So I graduated in two

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Speaker 8: thousand and five from Clemson. The PGA's curriculum back down

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Speaker 8: was training very specifically for the students to become green

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Speaker 8: grass head golf professionals. So we were studying merchandising, teaching

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Speaker 8: the game, customer relations, and there was even a test

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Speaker 8: Matt of physically going to a lab, pulling apart a

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Speaker 8: golf club and assessing somebody's grip size and re building

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Speaker 8: that club, and somebody was watching you pull this thing

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Speaker 8: apart put it back together. You actually had to train

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Speaker 8: to do club repair back then. So what we've seen

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Speaker 8: in the past decade, let's call it, is an advancement

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Speaker 8: in the education where they've dropped some of the more

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Speaker 8: very traditional club pro education and they've become much more specialized.

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Speaker 8: So what we're seeing now is that we've got students

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Speaker 8: who are tracking very specifically, just saying early in their

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Speaker 8: college career, I want to be a teacher, or I

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Speaker 8: want to be a tournament director, or I want to

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Speaker 8: be a merchandiser. And they've i think, built a really

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Speaker 8: good education program now where they're really specializing and allowed

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Speaker 8: allowing people to pick and choose their path a little

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Speaker 8: bit more specifically, rather than pushing everybody into that old

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Speaker 8: school green grass golf pro kind of mold.

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Speaker 7: Which is cool, but also does that make it tough

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Speaker 7: on PGM programs then, because you have a sort of

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Speaker 7: a splintered set of teaching going on, and then how

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Speaker 7: do you have a program to get enough students in

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Speaker 7: each one of those different verticals, right, Like, you've got

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Speaker 7: to have teachers in those different works, then you have

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Speaker 7: to have enough students to justify a splintering of those verticals.

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Speaker 7: Is that also kind of part of the problem too.

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Speaker 8: No, I think it's been a pretty cool change. So

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Speaker 8: each of the university programs kind of has its own strength, right.

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Speaker 8: So at Penn State, we're located in the northeast. Most

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Speaker 8: of the facilities that our alumni go to are private facilities,

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Speaker 8: typically upscale private, so we're able to kind of cater

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Speaker 8: the way that we deliver the PGA's education towards that.

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Speaker 8: But then also we have an amazing on campus facility.

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Speaker 8: It's a three day, three bay teaching and coaching center

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Speaker 8: that has force plates and three D motion capture technology.

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Speaker 8: So we've had a plethora of students in the past

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Speaker 8: five to eight years really go down that teaching path

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Speaker 8: because we're well outfitted to deliver.

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Speaker 9: That part of the curriculum.

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Speaker 8: I think the other programs each of their own strength,

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Speaker 8: and that's where when students are thinking about which program

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Speaker 8: do I want to attend, Which university do I want

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Speaker 8: to go to, we tell them visit campus, you need

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Speaker 8: to see it. You need to meet the people, You

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Speaker 8: need to see what their expertise has to offer. And

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Speaker 8: and that's I think part of the process is early

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Speaker 8: on choosing the right university for you. So we're each

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Speaker 8: each program definitely has a niche.

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Speaker 7: Bob for go back to Claude Harmon and and you know,

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Speaker 7: now guys like Rick Riley at Wilsher who's been there

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Speaker 7: over thirty years. You know, do you do we do

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Speaker 7: you think that that kind of figurehead mega mentor you know, multitasking,

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Speaker 7: you know, leader of a of a golf shop?

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Speaker 6: Uh?

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Speaker 7: Is that adot? Is that literally kind of like about

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Speaker 7: to be extinct? And and it's going to be this

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Speaker 7: collection of specialists that may be overseen by a quote

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Speaker 7: director of golf or a president of a club or something.

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Speaker 7: Is that is that ultimately kind of we're where we

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Speaker 7: are or where we're headed?

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Speaker 8: I hope not, because and I don't think that we're

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Speaker 8: going in that direction because enough of the new generation

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Speaker 8: is being mentored by the Bob Fords, the Tony Pancake

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Speaker 8: at Crooked Stick, Scott and I at Marion Golf Club.

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Speaker 8: These folks are so good with people, and they've trained

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Speaker 8: their assistants who have then moved on to become head professionals,

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Speaker 8: to kind of have that same way about them of

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Speaker 8: running a facility, being the figurehead, being a mentor. So

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Speaker 8: what's been really fun for me. I've been here for

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Speaker 8: fifteen years almost at Penn State. Now some of my

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Speaker 8: earliest graduates are in those positions, so they're in their

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Speaker 8: mid coming up on upper thirties. A great example is

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Speaker 8: a gentleman by the name of Jack Davis. He's the

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Speaker 8: head professional at Essex County Club, really cool Donald Ross,

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Speaker 8: just north of Boston. He's just got a great program

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Speaker 8: up there. He's got a good group of assistant golf pros,

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Speaker 8: he's got a great internship program. So I think that's

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Speaker 8: not going to die because those facilities need those types

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Speaker 8: of people, they need those figureheads, they need, you know,

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Speaker 8: in a way, they're kind of like the heroes of

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Speaker 8: the golf industry, and I think that that's going to

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Speaker 8: stay healthy. There are plenty of folks who want to

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Speaker 8: go down that path still, but then there are also

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Speaker 8: people who are like, you know what, that's not for me.

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Speaker 8: I don't want to be on property Saturday and Sunday

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Speaker 8: and every single holiday. I want to be able to

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Speaker 8: keep my own book right. So I'm going to go

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Speaker 8: down the teaching path, or I'm going to work in

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Speaker 8: New York City for an apparel company like Paulo Ralph.

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Speaker 9: Lauren and have a more normal work week.

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Speaker 8: So I think you're still going to have plenty of

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Speaker 8: folks who go down that traditional path and knock it

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Speaker 8: out of the park.

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Speaker 4: My name is Jack Davis. I'm the head golf professional

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Speaker 4: County Club in Manchester by the Sea, Massachusetts, amazing old Club.

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Speaker 4: It's the sixth club in the USGA. Don Ross was

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Speaker 4: actually the head pro here over a century ago. It's

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Speaker 4: top one hundred club. It's a really really wonderful place,

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Speaker 4: a leak golf program, a leave tennis rackets program. I've

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Speaker 4: been head pro here now. This is my seventh year,

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Speaker 4: and I worked for Jack Drew at Shinnacok for eight years.

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Speaker 4: Part of that, two of which were internships when I

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Speaker 4: was finishing my time at Penn State through the PGM program.

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Speaker 7: Davis also did a few winters in Florida Jupiter Hills

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Speaker 7: for three years and worked for Bob Ford at Seminal

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Speaker 7: for one season. This is a portion of my conversation

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Speaker 7: with Davis. The PGM program that you went to that

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Speaker 7: you are now probably getting interns from or PGM programs

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Speaker 7: of course, Yeah, how do you think that's that sort

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Speaker 7: of the program then and now has evolved.

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Speaker 4: The numbers are way down, for sure. I think that.

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Speaker 4: And I'm really involved with the alumni, and I talked

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Speaker 4: to Brian and Birch and I'm very much like a

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Speaker 4: hands on alum. Each of the schools is different, right,

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Speaker 4: They're offering different education and different geographic area. But the

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Speaker 4: PGA is trying to centralize everything, and I think it's

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Speaker 4: really difficult for some of the universities to get done

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Speaker 4: what they want to get done. At a bigger school

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Speaker 4: like Penn State, where you're fitting into a really large

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Speaker 4: ecosystem and PGM is such a small part of that,

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Speaker 4: it's hard to get things done. Maybe at a different

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Speaker 4: school like a Methodist or a Camel where PGM is

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Speaker 4: a bigger portion of your student base, you've got a

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Speaker 4: little bit more leverage as to programming, curriculum and stuff

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Speaker 4: like that. But I think the PGM programs are really

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Speaker 4: trying to get students, and the PGA is trying to

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Speaker 4: help the PGM programs work fruit But as this whole

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Speaker 4: podcast series is about. The article in Golf Digest is

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Speaker 4: about other than golf being in a great place on

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Speaker 4: a broad scale. I think it's hard for high school

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Speaker 4: students who know what they might be getting into to

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Speaker 4: sign up for it, if that makes sense, because the

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Speaker 4: idea of loving golf, Like when I was growing I

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Speaker 4: grew up in New Jersey, and when I found out

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Speaker 4: about PGM, I thought it was someone was lying to me.

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Speaker 4: I was like, how can this really be what I

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Speaker 4: can go to college for, let alone a place like

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Speaker 4: Penn State. And it was an incredible, incredible experience for me.

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Speaker 4: And it's still you explained where you went to college

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Speaker 4: and what you did, and people are still like, that's

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Speaker 4: a major. I'm like, yeah, it's a major.

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Speaker 9: It's great.

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Speaker 4: I work at all I mean I work at Spyglass,

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Speaker 4: a Pebble Beach company. I worked at Plainfield Country Club,

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Speaker 4: I work at Chitnaicock. I worked at these great places,

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Speaker 4: and I was so driven and the students around me,

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Speaker 4: the class above me and the class below me, my

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Speaker 4: peers were so driven. And it feels different now. It

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Speaker 4: feels like it's almost a a waiting program like people

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Speaker 4: do PGGM because they enjoy the game of golf, and

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Speaker 4: then they're going to transition to a different major, or

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Speaker 4: they're going to quickly transition to a different career path

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Speaker 4: or maybe a different career path within golf. It doesn't

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Speaker 4: necessarily feel, and not through the fault of the PGM programs,

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Speaker 4: like you're creating forty head pros a year. It seems

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Speaker 4: like you're creating one head pro year and then other

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Speaker 4: people who will have golf as part of their life

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Speaker 4: for the rest of their lives.

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Speaker 7: What are your thoughts on where we go from here?

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Speaker 4: It's interesting. I wrote a paper that I presented to

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Speaker 4: the executive committee at the club here that was about

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Speaker 4: four thousand words that was essentially the state of the

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Speaker 4: golf business and particularly how it relates to Essex and

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Speaker 4: my life and our team's lives. And that was six

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Speaker 4: months before the club pro crisis. Article came out. That

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Speaker 4: came out, and the club president here sent that article

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Speaker 4: to me and said, you beat them to the punch,

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Speaker 4: But I think a lot of us beat them to

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Speaker 4: the punch, right. It was an amazing article. It was

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Speaker 4: I can't tell you the chatter that that created, But

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Speaker 4: now that chatter's gone. Or at least certainly muted compared

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Speaker 4: to where it was. I've been listening to your podcast,

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Speaker 4: and I think that everyone has really good points. It's

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Speaker 4: an odd situation that the PGA of America, while advocating

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Speaker 4: for us, isn't our bosses. They're not our bosses, right,

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Speaker 4: So any gains that I might get at essex, whether

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Speaker 4: it relates to my own situation or my team situation

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Speaker 4: or facilities, whatever those might be, that doesn't necessarily help

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Speaker 4: the professional next door. Right. There is no union, there's

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Speaker 4: no guild there. We have to fight these battles, if

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Speaker 4: you will, very quote fight these battles on a million

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Speaker 4: different fronts every day. So I think it's the more

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Speaker 4: that we talk to one another, the more that our members.

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Speaker 4: Again I work at a member on club, so the

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Speaker 4: more that our members and the board here are hearing

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Speaker 4: these situations, the better. In general, what I've seen is

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Speaker 4: that when they are made aware of a problem, they're

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Speaker 4: very empathetic and they want act. I think a lot

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Speaker 4: of the problems that the golf business is facing, some

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Speaker 4: of them are institutional problems, like people play golf on

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Speaker 4: the weekends, people play golf on holidays. We've got to

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Speaker 4: figure out a way that me the head pro. I

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Speaker 4: don't need to be here on every weekend and every holiday.

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Speaker 4: But there are some things that are kind of intrinsic

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Speaker 4: with the golf business. But I think if we can

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Speaker 4: communicate with data and eloquence to the people who are

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Speaker 4: making decisions, whether it's a membership and ownership group, aboard,

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Speaker 4: whatever it is, they want to help us, they do,

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Speaker 4: But for generations, I don't think that they knew what

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Speaker 4: the problems were, and I think there was a badge

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Speaker 4: of honor how many hours a week could work. So

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Speaker 4: if we as golf professionals were saying, my seventy five

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Speaker 4: hours weeks be to your seventy, and I must be

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Speaker 4: a better head pro. If that was the culture, as

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Speaker 4: Chandler as alluded to, how are our bosses going to

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Speaker 4: be there to help us if we're bragging about how

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Speaker 4: much you work? And now I want to do the

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Speaker 4: other way around. I want to be the head process

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Speaker 4: I work forty hours a week and then tell my

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Speaker 4: friends how I can do that. Now I'm far from that,

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Speaker 4: but we've got to fight these battles on every single

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Speaker 4: little front, and we've got to be honest with our bosses,

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Speaker 4: and we have to be honest with ourselves.

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Speaker 7: The next generation, do you see that there might be

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Speaker 7: more of you coming and staying and pursuing a position

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Speaker 7: like you've You've worked hard to get and are immersed in.

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Speaker 4: As we speak, I think my generation as I'm sure

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Speaker 4: every previous generation thinks. I think my generation. I'm thirty five.

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Speaker 4: I think we're kind of the flex point because a

436
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,160
Speaker 4: lot of my peers and friends, people within a few

437
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 4: years of me. We were able to learn from the greats,

438
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,880
Speaker 4: the Jack Druges, the Tony Pancakes, the Scott and Ies,

439
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 4: the Bob Fords. We saw what the classic great American

440
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 4: golf pro looked like. And now we're seeing the interns

441
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 4: that I'm hiring, who are eighteen to twenty two, and

442
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 4: my young assistant's fresh out of school. We're seeing the

443
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 4: golf business through their perspective. But we were trained in

444
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 4: a much different perspective. So I think what I'm trying

445
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 4: to do is be the connection from those greats, if

446
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,199
Speaker 4: we can call them that, those greats, and translate and

447
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 4: modernize the golf business to make it attractive for someone

448
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 4: who's twenty two, make it attractive for me, because I

449
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 4: don't want again at thirty five, I hopefully have a

450
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 4: long career ahead of me. But sustainability is important because

451
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,639
Speaker 4: I would say the work life balance that I have now,

452
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 4: I can't do this for twenty five more years. So

453
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 4: but I've taken the viewpoint of I'm going to try

454
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 4: and make get better. I'm going to try to be

455
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,479
Speaker 4: part of the change, even if it's in my own

456
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 4: little world, in my facility, and make the younger interns

457
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 4: and assistants feel like there is hope and change and

458
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 4: progress happening, because I I'd rather give myself and my family.

459
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 4: My wife's a golf professional who works here with us.

460
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,120
Speaker 4: I'd rather give us a chance here than say it's

461
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 4: never going to change and bail if that makes sense,

462
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 4: totally yeah, And I consider myself one of them, very lucky.

463
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 4: I work at a great club, very comfortable. I'm one

464
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:36,959
Speaker 4: of the lucky ones. And we say to ourselves all

465
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 4: the time, how how could this be possible if you

466
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 4: weren't in some of the positions we're in.

467
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 7: Do you and your wife have kids?

468
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 4: No? And that's yeah. We own the golf shop here together,

469
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 4: which is a great benefit for us. But my dog's

470
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 4: in the golf shop. My whole life is here, and

471
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 4: as we think about the next step in our lives,

472
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,679
Speaker 4: there's certainly that how does that happen? And unfortunately I

473
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 4: haven't worked for many people that have kids or have

474
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 4: I need better examples I would say on how to

475
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 4: handle that because I can't be an absent father. I

476
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 4: don't think that having kids because that's what you're supposed

477
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 4: to do is fair to people.

478
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 9: You hopeful.

479
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 4: I am hopeful because A I have a partner in

480
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,360
Speaker 4: this in my wife. That makes me feel even more

481
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:32,680
Speaker 4: invested and more support. I'm also hopeful because of where

482
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 4: I specifically work, because I do have a wonderful membership

483
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 4: and in general a lot of empathy. How far can

484
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 4: I push what this position is? I don't know. But

485
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,439
Speaker 4: the same way that I presented a paper to the

486
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:51,160
Speaker 4: board a few years ago it said we can't continue

487
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 4: down this road. We made progress from that. We really

488
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 4: did my staff salaries, the size of my team has grown.

489
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 4: We are making progress. But this can't be at the

490
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 4: club or any club can't think that what they did

491
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 4: the last two years to make it better is it

492
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 4: as I'm sure every industry needs to think about it.

493
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 4: I'm hopeful. I'm not jumping for joy overly optimistic, but

494
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 4: I'm hopeful, and it's worth it. It's worth fighting for it.

495
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 7: There might be a day where twenty years from now,

496
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 7: you are that head pro that's been at your club

497
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 7: for thirty five years or whatever, and you had an

498
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 7: impact on making sure that that twenty two year old

499
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 7: intern that you have now as a path to having

500
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 7: that same type of Bob Ford Jack druga Tony pancake situation. Right,

501
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 7: That's possible.

502
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,919
Speaker 4: That's the hope. I mean, there's nothing. I had an

503
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 4: assistant pro, Alex Hoyos, who became a head pro in

504
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 4: Essex County Country Club, Funny Nothing, Jersey. Those are the

505
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 4: proudest days really in a head pro's life is when

506
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 4: an assistant who works for them becomes a head pro

507
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 4: on their own. That's a really proud day. And you

508
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 4: hope to have a roster of those. But you've got

509
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 4: to be there a long time and you've got to

510
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 4: be at a great facility to make that happen. So again, hopeful,

511
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 4: certainly hopeful, But seven years in, I don't know if

512
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 4: I've got another thirty years At this rate of work

513
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 4: and life, work life balance because as you mentioned, you say,

514
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 4: you know that those people are known for making great

515
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 4: assistant professionals into head professionals. Those people are also known

516
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,719
Speaker 4: for being great husbands and fathers and active in their

517
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 4: community and coaching their kids' sports leagues. And that's got

518
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 4: to be just as important us because being completely devoted

519
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 4: to your craft and devoted to your club, while great

520
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 4: for the club, might not be the most healthy thing

521
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 4: for the individual.

522
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 7: Safe to say, Essex County Club, his staff, and the

523
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 7: industry in general are lucky to have Jack Davis, not

524
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 7: to mention his wife, Amanda Davis, who graduated from the

525
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 7: PGM program at Mississippi State in twenty thirteen, worked for

526
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 7: Peter Malar and was an assistant at Friar's Head on

527
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 7: Long Island. Amanda has been at Essex for six years

528
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 7: and has agreed to be part of episode seven, a

529
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 7: wrap up, which will include several more voices based on

530
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 7: everything they've heard throughout this series. But for now, it's

531
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 7: back to doctor Bryan Soulet. Rick Riley actually said, look,

532
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 7: professional golfers tend to be takers. Club pros, PGA pros

533
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 7: are givers. What are your thoughts on that? Kind of

534
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 7: summary of the two separate sort of paths of the

535
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 7: professional game of golf.

536
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 8: Yeah, nothing's black or white, right. You know, you watch

537
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 8: anything about the top level players, they're trying to get

538
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 8: back in any way they can. But I think if

539
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,959
Speaker 8: you're going to be again a traditional golf professional working

540
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 8: at a public course or at a resort or at

541
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 8: a private club, you have to care about other people.

542
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 8: Your job is to make people happy every day, and

543
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 8: so you and your staff better be ready and better

544
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 8: have everything in place to deliver great programming to make

545
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 8: sure that when people show up, like when you go

546
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 8: to Abandon Dune's right, I know that's your happy place.

547
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 8: It's not just the golf courses, right, it's seeing Shoo

548
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 8: when you arrive, and it's spending time in the golf

549
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 8: shops talking with the golf professionals and then spending all

550
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 8: those hours with the caddies. I mean, that's what the

551
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 8: profession is all about, is making it so that this

552
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 8: trip that you've been looking forward to for two years,

553
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 8: that you've been saving for for ten years, is everything

554
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 8: that you wanted it to be. And a lot of

555
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 8: times it comes down to the people. Because the golf

556
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 8: course is going to be great no matter what. So yeah,

557
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 8: I think I think golf professionals, the really good ones,

558
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 8: have a great way with people, a great way of

559
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 8: making them feel special, whether it's in the golf shop

560
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 8: or on the lesson tee or going out and playing

561
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 8: some golf with them. And that's you know, that's what

562
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 8: we try to nurture, is help people kind of learn

563
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 8: some interpersonal skills so that when they get into the

564
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 8: industry they can make somebody's day.

565
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 7: This work life balance that may have been an issue

566
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 7: pre COVID certainly became an issue during COVID. And now

567
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:44,959
Speaker 7: that golf is you know, continues to stay popular, and

568
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 7: we've got this rise in energy around not only green

569
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 7: grass facilities, but you know sort of non traditional golf facilities, women, kids.

570
00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 7: You know, everything is going in the right direction. Meanwhile,

571
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 7: the club pro or the PGA pro, you know, it

572
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 7: was sort of like run over. I mean they were

573
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 7: just just or held held underwater. I talk about like

574
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 7: sort of like paddling out, you know, in a Hawaiian

575
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 7: surf break, and it's like it just feels like the

576
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 7: club pros just can't get past the break to breathe again.

577
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 7: Where are we at in your mind here as you

578
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 7: sit you know, you know eight essentially April twenty twenty three.

579
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 8: I think that article was big right last year, the

580
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 8: club pro crisis. I think that put a spotline on

581
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 8: the challenges of the industry. I think club owners, boards

582
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 8: of directors, PGA of America leadership, USGA leadership. I think

583
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 8: they all saw that and took it to heart because

584
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 8: there was a pretty good good outcry and social media

585
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 8: outcry after that. What I've seen in the past five

586
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 8: years or so, and I think this came obviously pre pandemic.

587
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 8: It was kind of status quo pandemic. It was every

588
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 8: man for yourself, try to survive. And then I think

589
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 8: post pandemic, what we're starting to see is golf facilities

590
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 8: and golf professionals who realized that they were getting burnout,

591
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 8: they were getting people dropping out of the industry and

592
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 8: going into different professions. They had to make some changes.

593
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 8: So we're starting to see different models. So there's one

594
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 8: model that Jim Smith at Philly Cricket Club has and

595
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 8: that is all of his part time employees are for

596
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 8: ten to twelve hour shifts per week. You get three

597
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 8: days off per week, but they're still putting in fifty hours, right,

598
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 8: I'd call that balance, you know, when you're talking about

599
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 8: the industry. So it's a pretty cool model. And there's

600
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 8: other clubs that have upped their budget for personnel and

601
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 8: they've got more assistant golf profession now than they ever

602
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 8: have before with the goal.

603
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 9: Of it being a more normal work week.

604
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 8: Because I think the new generation and the students who

605
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 8: were teaching everybody here at Penn State and all the

606
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 8: other universities, they're seeing the industry and they're saying, all right,

607
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 8: you know, do I want to be there fifty sixty

608
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,959
Speaker 8: seventy hours a week and remember guest week you're going

609
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 8: to be that's just inevitable. But are there some facilities

610
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:25,760
Speaker 8: that are going to offer something a little bit more

611
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 8: more balanced. Yeah, And if those facilities are doing that,

612
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 8: that's where the students are going to go. And if

613
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 8: you're not doing that, eventually you're going to be left

614
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 8: in the dust. So I'm pretty excited about it because

615
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 8: I think I think there's no way golf facilities can't

616
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:49,240
Speaker 8: adapt at this point, especially with all those leaders making

617
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 8: some changes.

618
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 7: To this point. In my reporting, which started in October

619
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 7: of last year, I've interviewed fourteen people for this podcast series.

620
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 7: I've heard from at least fifty more who are or

621
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 7: were PGA pros. I'd estimate half of that sample set

622
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 7: have left their post as pros or assistant pros for

623
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 7: an alternate industry.

624
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 8: This is the tragedy of when this happens in the

625
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 8: golf business, right. We see people who go into the

626
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 8: industry and they have such promise and such charisma and

627
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:27,320
Speaker 8: such skill, and they get into that whitewater. They can't

628
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 8: get past the break, as you say, and they get

629
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 8: out of the industry. And these are the people who

630
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 8: we were most excited about being leaders, and they just

631
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:39,840
Speaker 8: get They have a moment where they sit down with

632
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 8: their spouse and they say, is this worth it? Is

633
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 8: there another option for us now? And that's where if

634
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 8: we don't see a change in the industry, I think

635
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,359
Speaker 8: we're going to have more of these casualties. And I

636
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 8: hope the hell it doesn't happen, you know. I hope

637
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 8: that that these you know, the young talent is able

638
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 8: to find the balance that they need to be really

639
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 8: good at what they do, get all the fulfillment, but

640
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,479
Speaker 8: then be able to go home at night and throw

641
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 8: the ball with their kid, you know, and not miss

642
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 8: every dance recital in every game. And I think that

643
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 8: there's a path now for that, and I'm, like I

644
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 8: said earlier, I'm optimistic about it.

645
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 9: I really am.

646
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 7: So essentially it was it was an awareness issue, and

647
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 7: by virtue of a Shane Ryan article social media, you know,

648
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 7: idiots like me saying what I said and how I

649
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 7: said it, which then causes another wave of kind of

650
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:46,280
Speaker 7: of education, you know, I mean seriously, I mean, yeah,

651
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 7: you know, I here here. I've been in the golf

652
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 7: industry for decades, you know, and I just I just

653
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 7: wasn't aware of just you know, the how bad it

654
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 7: had gotten. And that to me was exactly like so

655
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,240
Speaker 7: that to me was an exclamation point on the idea

656
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 7: that this literally wasn't awarenesses awareness issue. You have selfless,

657
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 7: humble givers of the game that aren't good at promoting

658
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 7: themselves or pounding their chest. You know, look at guys

659
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 7: like Bob Ford or Rick Riley or some of these

660
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 7: other names that you've talked about. They're not going around, like,

661
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,280
Speaker 7: you know, honking their own horns.

662
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 9: It's just not happening.

663
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 7: So so that awareness is you had in your mind

664
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 7: is being addressed and that's why you feel so positive

665
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 7: and excite quote excited about it.

666
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:40,399
Speaker 9: Yeah.

667
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 8: And I'll say one other thing, and this may upset

668
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 8: some folks, but that's okay. Fifty five percent of PGA

669
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 8: professionals are fifty five years or older. So there's an

670
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 8: old school mentality that I think was perpetuated forever in

671
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 8: this industry. And I'm hoping that that that the changing

672
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,399
Speaker 8: of the guard allows for the younger generation of PG

673
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 8: professionals to say, you know what, the way we've always

674
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 8: done it isn't right. We need to change it. And

675
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,760
Speaker 8: I'm excited for that. I think that that you're seeing

676
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 8: some young minds come into the industry that are that

677
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 8: are fighting for, you know, for some more balance.

678
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 9: I think that's a really good thing.

679
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 7: Seth waw, what are your thoughts on him? His involvement,

680
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 7: his impact and uh and and sort of you know

681
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 7: how he's how he's addressed, you know, trying to address

682
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 7: a quality of life issue for his membership.

683
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 8: I've been through I think at this point it's three

684
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 8: or four CEOs the PGA of America. Seth has been

685
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,800
Speaker 8: one of the more exciting ones that seems to seems

686
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,800
Speaker 8: to have the better interest of PG professionals at front

687
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 8: of mind rather than the bottom line of the PGA

688
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 8: of America. And I've I've really enjoyed his leadership. I

689
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 8: think the thing that's that's interesting about the setup of

690
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 8: the PGA, Right, You've got your your executives, but then

691
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 8: you also have your board of directors who are the

692
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 8: PGA members, right, And so it's an interesting balance between

693
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 8: leading the ship of this massive organization PJ of America,

694
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 8: but then also working with your board of directors, you know,

695
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 8: and and the individuals who are in charge of that.

696
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 8: So John Linder, Don Rey, Nathan Charns, those are the

697
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 8: three who are in charge right now. And that's kind

698
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 8: of with each president. There's something new that I think

699
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 8: each president's going to fight for. I think Seth Wills

700
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 8: done a really good job of balancing his different roles.

701
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 8: It's been it's been great under his leadership.

702
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 7: Susie Whyley, I was what a game changer? Game changer?

703
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 9: Yeah, a force of nature.

704
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 7: M I've always been a fan, you know, I've crossed

705
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 7: paths with her from time to time, interviewed her and

706
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 7: she just jumps off the screen. I mean she is like,

707
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 7: she is relentlessly motivated to make changes in pathways for females, girls,

708
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 7: for the game in general. I was like, what can

709
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 7: I do to support whatever it is that you're doing.

710
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:36,839
Speaker 7: I mean, what unbelievable, right, And to see like the

711
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 7: change of perception once she was president of the PJ

712
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 7: of America of the role that women play in the

713
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 7: game of golf and the opportunities for women in golf.

714
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:50,919
Speaker 7: We see it at the university, right, because we get

715
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 7: women who come through our program and I receive calls

716
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 7: and emails weekly saying we need a really strong woman

717
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 7: to join our program for X, Y or Z. Right,

718
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 7: there's such a demand for women in this industry to

719
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:12,719
Speaker 7: take roles that that have opportunities to just explode and

720
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 7: just you know, create such a great career. Susie was

721
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 7: was such an advocate, always will be an advocate for

722
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:23,239
Speaker 7: women in the game of golf, for different individuals from

723
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 7: different backgrounds and minorities. And I think because of her

724
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 7: presidency and because of her leadership, we're starting to see

725
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 7: an uptick in international students, students from different backgrounds women.

726
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 9: Thank God for her.

727
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:43,760
Speaker 7: Next up, Susie.

728
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 10: Wayley, you know men are still the employers at most

729
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 10: clubs back and people typically hire who they look like, right,

730
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 10: And we need more women promoted, We need more women elevated,

731
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 10: and we need more clubs to think about women running

732
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 10: their facilities, not just as general managers, but in head

733
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 10: golf offs positions and directors of golf.

734
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 4: That's not a lot.

735
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 10: We have some, you know, we have some directors and

736
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 10: instructions at high end clubs. Joanna cos at Marion, Kathy

737
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:11,919
Speaker 10: Kim's at Baltimore. I mean we were, you know, little

738
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 10: by little, you're starting to see those opportunities happen. We

739
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 10: have gms that are females, but it's it's woefully, woefully

740
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 10: and painfully behind.

741
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 6: Put another log on the fire. Nobody here is gift

742
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 6: and tie