1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Body diets, but Joseph's gotten more. It's hard to believe. 2 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: I think about it now, nineteen sixty four, at nineteen 3 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: sixty four, Wow, sixty two years ago. It's hard to 4 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: wrap my brain around. You know. It's an odd thing, 5 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: you know, Tom, I teach kids now that you know 6 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: their birth here is I don't know. I guess I've 7 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:41,919 Speaker 1: got kids now that are born, you know, two thousand 8 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: and seven, eight nine, You know, Tom marches On, I 9 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: know that seems rather obvious. But you know the thing 10 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: about cold cases and those individuals that have families that 11 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: were more by tragedy that never dissipates. It might finally 12 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: dissipate over decades and decades and decades, but I'm of 13 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: the opinion that many places and families as well are 14 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: haunted today. I want to talk about a case that 15 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: has just now burst onto the scene nationally, and it's 16 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: a case that originated back in nineteen sixty four. It 17 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: involves a twelve year old little girl named Mary Teresa Simpson, 18 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: and the story I'm going to lay on you today, 19 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: you would think that it would happen in modern times 20 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: because of the violence that was exacted on this poor 21 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: little girl. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body 22 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: Backs Brother, Dave. Wow, we're back at it with another 23 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 1: cold case that is no longer cold. Wow. I got 24 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 1: to tell you. Can I tell you something real quick? No? 25 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: I try. I try to find I truly do. I 26 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:23,359 Speaker 1: purposed myself in my life at this stage to try 27 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: to find joy in every endeavor I do, as as 28 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: dark as it might be. And I've been, you know, 29 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 1: saying prayers about this, meditated on it, thought about it, 30 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 1: and what should what should I do do? I want 31 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: to sit around wring my hands and you know, sackcloth 32 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: and ashes and all of that to demonstrate that. And 33 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: I think it's working for me. When I came across 34 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: this case, Dave, I actually felt like I was opening 35 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: up a Christmas gift. And the reason is is that 36 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: for so long we've known who Mary Teresa Simpson is, 37 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: but we've never known who the perpetrator is. And finally, 38 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: even though her homicide took place in sixty four, they've 39 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: identified a suspect in this case. And that's what I 40 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: mean by a gift. And here's kind of the hook 41 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: for this whole thing, because it's going to require all 42 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: of our friends out there to tune in because they 43 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: have yet to release the name of the perpetrator. But 44 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: isn't there a specific date associated with this dave where 45 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: they're going to step up to up to a bank 46 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: of microphones. I would assume in Elmira, New York, and 47 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: they are going to say who this person is? I 48 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: gotta tell you, I can't wait. I can't wait to 49 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 1: hear who this is? What the history was? They ever 50 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: have an opportunity to catch this individual, so I don't 51 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: know they didn't. 52 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 2: February tenth is when they're going to announce. 53 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: February tenth, Okay, gotcha. 54 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 2: What has happened is whenever somebody dies, is they stop aging. Obviously, 55 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 2: when a child dies, they stay that age. They stay 56 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 2: twelve years old. And whereas all of her friends went, 57 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 2: you think about twelve is what six seventh grade somewhere 58 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 2: in there, nineteen sixty four, So that puts her born 59 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 2: in nineteen fifty two, which means Woodstock era. Okay, the 60 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 2: age we're dealing with here at twelve years old. But 61 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:47,359 Speaker 2: she died in nineteen sixty four. She was actually walking home. 62 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 2: And this is the interesting part of how we look 63 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 2: at time. In nineteen sixty four, a twelve year old 64 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 2: little girl walking by herself after visiting with relatives in Elmira, 65 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 2: is walking home when she vanishes. Now, I don't know 66 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 2: the distance that she was walking, but it wouldn't be uncommon. 67 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:10,919 Speaker 2: When I was a child growing up, we would walk 68 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 2: distances without our parents, So that's what was going on. 69 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 2: She was visiting relatives on her way home. Never makes 70 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 2: it home, so dad reports her missing that night right away. 71 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 2: Hey man, my daughter is missing. All hands on deck 72 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 2: and they did. The community came out on March fifteenth, 73 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 2: nineteen sixty four. The community of Elmira. They they got 74 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 2: after it. They were walking everywhere. They were searching elbow 75 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 2: to elbow looking for this little twelve year old girl. 76 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 2: It was four days later that her body was discovered. 77 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 2: On March nineteenth, nineteen sixty four, Mary's body is discovered 78 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 2: in a wooded area near it by a man who 79 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 2: was hiking with his sons. Now, when somebody says they 80 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 2: were hiking, I think of hiking in a rugged terrain. 81 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 2: I'm not really sure that's what we're dealing with here. 82 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,839 Speaker 2: But I'm not that familiar with Elmira. I am back 83 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty four. I don't know what it would 84 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 2: have looked. 85 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: Like, right, Yeah, And you know Elmira, you know, my 86 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: association association with Elmira. We're just, you know, now, coming 87 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 1: off of Christmas season, and of course I I absolutely 88 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: love watching It's a Wonderful Life, and there's a reference 89 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: that's made to Elmira. And of course the movie is 90 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 1: actually set, you know, Pottersville is actually in New York 91 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: State Falls. But I'm sorry Pottersville. See what I did there, 92 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: the alternate Bedford Falls. The bank examiner comes in, remember, 93 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: and Harry has just won the Medal of Honor, and 94 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 1: he says, I want to get done with this. I 95 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: want to visit my family in Elmira, you know like that, 96 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: you know, And of course the walls start caving in 97 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: on George Bailey and everybody else in that environment because 98 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: Uncle Billy's lost some money. It's kind of it's on 99 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: the border Elmira is and I'm sure this is lovely area. 100 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: Matter of fact, it's an area I've always wanted to visit. 101 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: If you go due north of Elmira, you're going to 102 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 1: run into what's referred to as the Finger Lake District. 103 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: And in New York. I've always wanted to see that area. 104 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: I've always heard how beautiful it is. So this is 105 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: nowhere near the city. It's it's on New York Sun 106 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: New York State southern border, uh right right adjacent to 107 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: uh to the Pennsylvania line in that area. So it's 108 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: kind of I'm not going to say necessarily rugged, but 109 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: it's kind of hilly. 110 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 2: Uh. 111 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: There's a river that runs through there. I think it's 112 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: called and forgive me locals if I mispronounce it, but 113 00:07:55,400 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: the Chimung or the Chemung river. And there's kind of 114 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: a kind of a state park area that's associated with this. 115 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: The river's running through this area, and I can only imagine, Dave, 116 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: that it's not like a place you're not out in 117 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: the wilderness like you are in in you know, out 118 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: west somewhere, but it's kind of isolated. Still to this day, 119 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: there's not like a lot of little towns around this area. 120 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: Okay around grounds kind of hilly. It would make a 121 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: perfect location not only for Dad to go out and 122 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,839 Speaker 1: hike with his kids, but tide of body, Dave. 123 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's what was going on here, which is 124 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 2: really sad, Joe, because this man is walking with his 125 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 2: sons and they come across and by the way, when 126 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 2: I was going over this story, my first thought was 127 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 2: she's missing. Who was the finder? My first thought was 128 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan has trained me to think, Oh, my lord, 129 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 2: finder is the first guy I've got to eliminate. So 130 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,719 Speaker 2: the finder here. I don't know how old his sons were, 131 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 2: but twelve year old Mary Teresa Simpson. Her remains were 132 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:10,559 Speaker 2: found partially concealed under debris and large stones, and investigators 133 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 2: determined she had been sexually assaulted and strangled, and her 134 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 2: mouth had been stuffed with twigs and dirt. What is 135 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 2: that significant of Joe, the twigs and dirt in the mouth. 136 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:29,839 Speaker 1: Well, it can be kind of a two pronged assessment here. 137 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: I think, first off, you want to shut her up, 138 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: all right. I hate to be that blunt, but that's 139 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: what is going on here. It also gives you an idea, 140 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: you know, I'd already made mentioned that the area where 141 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: she was sound is kind of isolated, right, Dave. And 142 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 1: so you're thinking probably evergreen trees, maybe some hardwoods and 143 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: that stuff. You're on forest floor. The stuff is readily accessible. 144 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: So if you're doing a sexual assault. You grab whatever 145 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: is within arm's reach, and you can imagine she's terrified, 146 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: she's screaming, carrying on, and you just want to quiet 147 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: her down, so you stuff and I think it was twigs, dirt, 148 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: anything that someone could get their hands on that was 149 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: in the immediate vicinity, and you're jamming this into her 150 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 1: mouth just to get her to be quiet. Of course, 151 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: one of the things that happens with this as well. 152 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 1: It's not necessarily like putting a gag in somebody's mouth 153 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: where the gag is one solid piece. Okay, I've seen 154 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: cases Dave where you get like this particulate things like dirt, leaves, grass, 155 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 1: and individually it'll go into the airway. So because you know, 156 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 1: just think about it, anybody out here just kind of 157 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: think about have you ever been in a situation where 158 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: you're hyperventilating and you're scared, Well, you're just trying to 159 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: get oxygen. How much more so if you've got some 160 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: monster with their hands are wrapped around your throat, and 161 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 1: in Mary Teresa's a circumstance, it's isolated. I think that 162 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: it's probably a location. It's probably a location that was 163 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: selected because you have to know that it's there. You're 164 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 1: talking about an individual that probably might be a local, 165 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: but you're also talking about the second prong of what 166 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: I was going to mention. It's one thing if you 167 00:11:55,920 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: put a gag in someone's mouth, it's totally different when 168 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: you try to defile them and objectify them by cramming 169 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: dirt into their mouth, their nose, and potentially down their throat. Dave, 170 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:31,959 Speaker 1: I got to tell you, I take exception to people 171 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: that say, well, the world is just as evil as 172 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: it has always been, and I know that we've gone 173 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 1: through You know that it will rise in it or 174 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 1: fall and this sort of thing. But Dave, knowing what 175 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: I know of my family and also investigators that I 176 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: have known over the years that were working back during 177 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 1: the time when Mary Teresa's case would have would have 178 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: taken place, this is not the kind of case that 179 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 1: they would have commonly seen. We do see things like 180 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: this in the modern context, and no, it has I 181 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: don't think that it necessarily has to do. We're exposed more. 182 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: I think that there is a growing, a growing shadow 183 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: of evil. Many times because of stuff that that brother 184 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: Dave and I cover. Many times, we can't take the 185 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,959 Speaker 1: measure of it. We just can't. But I got to 186 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: tell you Mary, Teresa's case. To me, given the level 187 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: of violence that's involved here is almost a foreshadowing of 188 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: what we would be looking at, you know, fifty years 189 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 1: later down the road. And you're right, you know, I 190 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: look at this image. She reminds me of my cousin 191 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 1: back in the sixties. It was a couple of years 192 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,679 Speaker 1: older than me. And she's got a sweet little face, 193 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: and she's wearing these kind of horn horn rimmed glasses. 194 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 1: You can look at her and tell that she's twelve 195 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: years old or approximating that, and day she's frozen in 196 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: Tom at that moment, Tom and you would hope, I 197 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: would imagine that this case was going to move forward. 198 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: But brother, it just came to hard stop. Man. 199 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 2: You know, I think that's part of it. 200 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: Joe. 201 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 2: We when we look at these, you just kind of go, 202 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 2: how is it possible in a small area, a small 203 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 2: town Elmira, New York, how is it possible that a 204 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 2: child can go missing and dot and be killed like 205 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 2: this and nobody knows, nobody can figure out what happened. 206 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, they had to have had some 207 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 2: ideas of the local crazies. Every community has local crazies. 208 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 2: A small church of one hundred people has a crazy 209 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 2: person or two in there, you know. H Yeah, And 210 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 2: it's and I don't I mean that in the funnest 211 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 2: way I can. When I say that, I'm just saying 212 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 2: there are there is no place hidden where there's just 213 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 2: a great group of people who don't have anything going on. 214 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 2: People talk. I don't understand how something like this can 215 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 2: go unsolved, but we've got a million of them. So 216 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 2: think about this for just a minute. I'm pulling up 217 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 2: the maps, trying to get an idea of what it 218 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 2: was like in nineteen sixty four. And I'm gonna be 219 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 2: honest with you, Joe, looking at pictures now of the 220 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 2: area where Mary Simpson's body was found. Yeah, it's still 221 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 2: wooded area, it's not built up, And looking at it, 222 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 2: it was only a couple of miles from where she lived. 223 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 2: Her body was found a couple of miles from where 224 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 2: she was headed. And you know, you said early and 225 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 2: it could have been a different story. I mean, at 226 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 2: this point in time you mentioned knowing the area, and 227 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 2: I'm looking at where her body was found and where 228 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 2: she was walking, and You're right, somebody had to know 229 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 2: where they were when this happened, Joe. But how is 230 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 2: it possible that they couldn't figure out in nineteen sixty 231 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 2: four a twelve year old walking home and nobody saw 232 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 2: anything they couldn't They didn't get not one suspect, Joe. 233 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: Well, that's one of the reasons I'm wondering, Dave. And 234 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: there's a couple of ways you can go with this investigatively. 235 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: Let's take the first one. The first one to me 236 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: is was there anybody in her little circle back then, 237 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: twelve year old right, that would have known about her? 238 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: First off, Okay, there might be twelve year olds that 239 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: live in my neighborhood around here. I don't have a 240 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: number on that. I don't know if they exist. I 241 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: have no idea. However, if I were the bus driver, okay, 242 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 1: if I were the teacher, if I were the minister, 243 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: I'm going to know these people and all the peripheral 244 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: people that they're associated with. Kind of think about like, 245 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 1: I don't know, a Venn diagram you know that kind 246 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: of extends out. Yeah, you know you're going to have 247 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: those intimates are kind of peripherally intimate, I think, And 248 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 1: you've got to look at immediate family regarding this as well, 249 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: and they're going to have to know something about her 250 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 1: comings and goings. Right, you know, when is she going 251 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 1: to be on the street, When is she going to 252 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: be most available, most vulnerable? You know these sorts of things. So, 253 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 1: and you know, Dave, this is this is not like 254 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:46,880 Speaker 1: it was. It's not like it was summertime up there. Okay, 255 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: you get up into that area of the country at 256 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,640 Speaker 1: the time of year that this occurred. And by the way, 257 00:17:53,720 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: it was March fourteenth in nineteen sixty four. You you 258 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,919 Speaker 1: think about that, and you think that was it's going 259 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: to be cold outside. There's not going to be a 260 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: lot of people out and about now, I will tell 261 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:16,879 Speaker 1: you this, The fifteenth back on March March nineteen sixty 262 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:21,919 Speaker 1: four fell on a Sunday, So you're going to have 263 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:26,640 Speaker 1: probably even fewer people out on the street. Back then, 264 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,719 Speaker 1: a goodly portion of the population went to church. You 265 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 1: stayed at home in the evening. Some people would have 266 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:36,400 Speaker 1: evening services on Sunday nights. Most folks didn't go out 267 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: to eat, and so it would be kind of vacant 268 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,360 Speaker 1: at that point in time. Who would know about her 269 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: comings and goings at that period of time. That's one 270 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,120 Speaker 1: group of people that would be in her intimate circle. 271 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 1: Then you got somebody else that's out there that is 272 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: just like a predator that is flying under the radar, 273 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: that is on the hunt for someone like Mary Teresa, 274 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: that is looking for a subject that fits within the parameters. Now, 275 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: I have to think, Dave and I don't know that 276 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: we've ever necessarily talked about this. I was speaking with 277 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 1: a child child's sex abuse investigator and this is something 278 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 1: I never really thought of within the subcategories, and there 279 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:39,479 Speaker 1: are of child's sex abuse offenders. Those individuals, according to 280 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: this detective, I was talking to bracket ages. So you'll 281 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:47,400 Speaker 1: have a subject that is out there that is interested 282 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:51,880 Speaker 1: in a bracket of eleven, twelve, and thirteen. Okay, they 283 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 1: don't have an interest in anybody younger than that. Many times, 284 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 1: and you can bracket that down and it gets more 285 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 1: and more horror as you go, you know, down to 286 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,879 Speaker 1: very very young. And these people generally target, you know, 287 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: those individuals that they can visualize that they see on 288 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 1: a regular basis. That's that's what you know, kind of 289 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: lights that that evil fire that burns in them. So 290 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,919 Speaker 1: I found that quite compelling. Tell the truth. And you know, 291 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,479 Speaker 1: just thinking about Mary Teresa here, who is it that 292 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 1: would have an end for a twelve year old girl 293 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 1: like this and to violate her in such a violent way? 294 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,879 Speaker 2: Man, at six point thirty in the evening on a Sunday, Yeah, 295 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:38,919 Speaker 2: and she's walking, She's near home, and that's where I again, 296 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 2: this is probably I'm going to guess, an opportunity somebody 297 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 2: sees a child walking alone in snatchesm That's all I 298 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 2: can really think of. And the reason I said that 299 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 2: Joe is not because of the moment, but what happened 300 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 2: after they did that. The Elmira Police Department did not 301 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,160 Speaker 2: let go of this Joe. Not only were there, which 302 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 2: is beginning immediately when Mary did not make it home. 303 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 2: And I don't know what time they actually began searching, 304 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 2: but think about it. It's six thirty is when she's 305 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,400 Speaker 2: last seen, known to be on the way home. At 306 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 2: that point, she's probably a mile away from her house 307 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 2: when she's last seen at six thirty, When she's not home, 308 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 2: by seven, I'm guessing they're already out. Yeah, let's go see, 309 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 2: but let's trace back where she was coming from. Yeah, 310 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 2: and by seven thirty, Where is she? By eight, get 311 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:33,919 Speaker 2: the neighborhood out. By ten thirty, they've reported her to 312 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 2: the police. We've got a missing girl. And that's when 313 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 2: the entire search begins, and it stays that way until 314 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 2: her body was found, not by searchers but by a 315 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 2: man walking hiking with his son. 316 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: I'm wow, I'm glad you brought this up because I'm 317 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: thinking about how many of these cases have you and 318 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: I covered involving young kids. Well, first off, the alarm 319 00:21:55,119 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: doesn't go up for a protracted period of tom and 320 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:05,479 Speaker 1: many times the parents are not alerting anybody. They're like, 321 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 1: we're going to solve this on our own, or they're 322 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: so disengaged from their kids. Dave, this kind of gives 323 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: you an indication because the alarm went up so quick 324 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: that you've got you've got a family that's engaged with 325 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 1: his child. All right. There's no distractions in nineteen sixty four, really, okay, 326 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: not like there are today, and so they're right on it. 327 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 1: It's kind of fascinating that they couldn't, that it actually 328 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: took them that period of time to do it to 329 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: discover her. But that goes back to what you had 330 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: said earlier. You got a man and his two sons 331 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: that are hiking. It's not like she's laying it, you know, 332 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: inside of a culvert discarded on the side of the road. 333 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 1: She's in an isolated area. Again, that goes back to 334 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 1: the person that has has to be familiar with this 335 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: particular area. They know what they're about. First off, that 336 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: involves the typology here we're talking about Mary Teresa. And 337 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: then secondly, they know where they're going to that location. 338 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 1: Now I hear's something that I'm curious about, and we 339 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,880 Speaker 1: don't know the information on this. I'm wondering what kind 340 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 1: of access road was there leading to where her body was. 341 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: Was she conveyed there in a motor vehicle. I have 342 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 1: to assume that she was, because this is some distance 343 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: away from her home. It's in an isolated space. Somebody 344 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,880 Speaker 1: is not going to pick her up, throw them, throw 345 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: her over their shoulder, and march all the way out 346 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,919 Speaker 1: in the wilderness with her. So, if that's the case, 347 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 1: did this person pull over on the side of the road. 348 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:58,719 Speaker 1: Was there an established hiking trail that everybody was aware of. 349 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,439 Speaker 1: Had she ever been out to the hiking trail before? 350 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 1: You know? Because I think that that would have been 351 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,439 Speaker 1: one of the initial questions if she was familiar with 352 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: this area where this man and his kids were, that 353 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 1: she just sided going a little nature walk on her own, 354 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 1: you know. But of course we know what happened, because 355 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: six thirty at night, yeah yeah, and in March, in 356 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: March winter time, we haven't hit we haven't hit spring, 357 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: not by damn sight at this point, and so we're 358 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: you're approaching it, but you know, I don't know right now, 359 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: We're in the middle of winter. I don't know. Sun's 360 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,360 Speaker 1: setting around here about what Tom five. 361 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 2: Five, little after five now, yeah, yeah, a little after five. 362 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: Now you move out to March, and still it's going 363 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: to get dark pretty pretty early. And I can imagine 364 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:59,160 Speaker 1: out here, Dave, there's no kind of artificial light out here. 365 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,400 Speaker 1: You're not going to be able to visualize anything. So 366 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: I think the subject would have had to have known 367 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,639 Speaker 1: where they were going, They would have had to have 368 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: been purposed, and they would have had to have been 369 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 1: assured that they would not have been interrupted in this environment. 370 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: I just wonder if that point of origin where they 371 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: walked back into the woods with Mary Teresa, was there 372 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: any evidence of footprints leading to that area. Was there 373 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 1: any evidence that somebody had parked on the shoulder of 374 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: the road to access Was there actually a parking lot 375 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: to give you access to a trailhead that goes back there. 376 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe that's been lost in the midst 377 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: of time, but I can tell you this, because the 378 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:44,680 Speaker 1: Elmira Police Department didn't quit with this case. We now 379 00:25:45,320 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: have answers. It was back in I don't know two thousand, Dave, 380 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:12,919 Speaker 1: that the New York State Police were urged by the 381 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 1: authorities that they had a cold case in Elmira that 382 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: went back to nineteen sixty four. I can you know, 383 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,639 Speaker 1: many times there's events like this that you kind of 384 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: want to be a fly on the wall. Well, you 385 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:34,360 Speaker 1: just want to see the cold case squad with either 386 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 1: the State or the science the technicians with the State Lab. 387 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 1: You want to see the expression on their face and say, yeah, 388 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,159 Speaker 1: we've got a blouse here from nineteen sixty four. We 389 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 1: want you to test it, just to see, you know, 390 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,160 Speaker 1: kind of see their reaction. But Dave, this was back 391 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: in two thousand and they turned Mary Teresa's blouse over 392 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 1: to the New York State Police and they were urged 393 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,879 Speaker 1: to to test it. And unfortunately they came up with 394 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,880 Speaker 1: absolutely nothing, didn't they well. 395 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 2: You know, yeah, nothing that actually led to the resolution. 396 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:16,920 Speaker 2: But what it did was Elmira being a small community 397 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 2: but fairly famous. You mentioned it's mentioned in It's a 398 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 2: Wonderful Life. So at least one Christmas. Yeah, once a 399 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 2: year people hear the word Elmira. But anyway, the story 400 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 2: didn't go away. And even though the testing in two 401 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,880 Speaker 2: thousand didn't land them with a suspect that they could 402 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 2: you know, lock up or anything else, it proved something 403 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 2: to the community. They were still trying. They were still 404 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 2: trying to solve this crime, this murder. At that point, 405 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 2: it was thirty six years old, and I looked through 406 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 2: the news on a couple other things, Joe, and you know. 407 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 2: In twenty nineteen, the local television station did a report 408 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 2: and this is the opening paragraph. It says, the year 409 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 2: was nineteen sixty four. Lyndon Johnson was president, the nation 410 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 2: was in the midst of a long and drawn out, 411 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,880 Speaker 2: costly war in Vietnam, and an English rock band known 412 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 2: as the Beatles arrived in the US for the first time. 413 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 2: That was what we're talking about. In March of nineteen 414 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 2: sixty four, I want to hold your hand, and she 415 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:21,160 Speaker 2: loves you well, it says here on it says Yet 416 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 2: a cold Sunday of March of that year, in the 417 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 2: city of Elmira, Mary Teresa Simpson, a vibrant and shy 418 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,399 Speaker 2: twelve year old little girl, disappeared without a trace. Her 419 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 2: older sister, Linda Galfin, is quoted in this article from 420 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,160 Speaker 2: twenty nineteen. She says, I just remember a little bit. 421 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 2: I wasn't in Elmira when it happened. I heard she 422 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 2: came up missing a week before her birthday. She goes 423 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 2: missing a week before she turns thirteen. Joe. So in 424 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 2: two thousand they send off this blouse, right, and while 425 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 2: the state is able to get DNA off of it 426 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 2: and develop something, nothing comes of it really, and it 427 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 2: kind of languishes until And this is something that I'm 428 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 2: so glad you have talked about multiple times in multiple arenas. 429 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 2: For those of you who follow true crime and you 430 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 2: wish you could be more involved, do you realize there's 431 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 2: just a little bit of money that it takes to 432 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 2: solve crimes now very little, but in this case, in 433 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, the Season of Justice granted the Almira 434 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 2: Police Force with a grant so they could reopen this case. 435 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 2: They got assistance from the FBI, and they began with 436 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 2: the DNA found in two thousand by the state police, 437 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 2: and we all know where that took them. This they 438 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 2: got the funding. All you got to do is have 439 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 2: about seventy five hundred dollars and you could make the 440 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 2: phone call to author them. That's what they need to 441 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 2: get this all, you know. And I still can't believe 442 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 2: it's that low. I would have thought seventy five thousand 443 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 2: would be your starting point, Joe, seventy high hunder bikes 444 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 2: is where it starts. With the authorm Well, you. 445 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: Know David and Kristen Middleman. You know they do this 446 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: by the skin of their teeth. They try to minimalize cost. 447 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: And I know what some of you guys are saying 448 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 1: out there, seventy five hundred bucks that you must be rich. 449 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: You're saying that mental No. I'll tell you what, do 450 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: yourself favor If you get a chance, you get hospitalized, 451 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: which I don't wish on anybody. Read your hospital bill. Okay, 452 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: if you want to talk about clinical medicine and testing 453 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 1: and all that stuff, just take a peek at that, 454 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: and there's no guarantees with cures, right, you know, when 455 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 1: you go through some kind of treatment, there's going to 456 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: be there's actually a resolution with authorm. Okay, uh, there 457 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: is a true resolution in this case. And one of 458 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: the things that we're faced with, David. This does not 459 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: surprise me because I've been involved in cold cases in 460 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: the past. And when you go and if people don't 461 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about, Dave, I know you do 462 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: one of those the legal boxes you know I'm talking 463 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: about that the files are in. They've got the removable lid. 464 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 1: I've gone through so many of those over the years, 465 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: and they're stacked back in a warehouse somewhere. Most of 466 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 1: the time, I'm always amazed that rats hadn't gotten into 467 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 1: all these things. Many times I have seen evidence of that. 468 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 1: But none of the stuff, many times, is organized. And 469 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: so when you when you look at it, you have 470 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 1: to think about putting this case together in its totality, 471 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: because you can take this blouse, all right, and you 472 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: can send it off, you can try to do a 473 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 1: DNA extraction, but there's all sorts of other things. And Dave, 474 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: you had sent me a list, and well done, man, 475 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: Because some of the things you have to think about 476 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: are case organization. You know, houses sing organized. 477 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 2: Joe, they brought into college, they got the Russell Stay College. Yeah, 478 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 2: that's that's how they got the help to think about 479 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 2: it now. Yep, You've got a small police department with 480 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 2: an unsolved murder that took place decades ago, and a 481 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 2: lot of people want to help, and they got the help. 482 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 2: Russell's Age College stepped up to help them. Here's some resources, 483 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 2: here's some people that can help you. 484 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, and talk about foreshadowing. I'm going to make an 485 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,960 Speaker 1: announcement in a couple of weeks involving Jack State. That's 486 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 1: all I'll say. And it goes to the heart of 487 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: this because when you have files like this that go 488 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: back so very long, you don't know what's in there. 489 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 1: And there's a way that these things have to be 490 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 1: organized because you know, look, I don't know what else 491 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: happened before two thousand with this case, Dave. This thing 492 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: has probably passed through multiple generations of investigators' hands, and 493 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: God bless them, I'm glad they looked at it. However, 494 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 1: you know, and I know what happens when files pass 495 00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 1: through the hands of other people. You know, I'm going 496 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: to pull the out, put it on my desk and 497 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: take a look at it later, and then I'm going 498 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 1: to return the file, and all of a sudden, that item, 499 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 1: which are hard copies, it's now gone. It's gone in time. 500 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,680 Speaker 1: They may have packed up when they left to be retired, 501 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: and that document has gone. That might be a critical piece. 502 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: So you have to assess not what is just there, 503 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 1: but what is missing as well. It's like it's almost 504 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 1: like not only are you conducting a cold case investigation, 505 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 1: you're having to investigate the case file that's within the 506 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 1: police department to try to make sense of it. You know, 507 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: who's pulled the evidence out in this case? Is there 508 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 1: any physical evidence? I got to tell you, Dave, I am. 509 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 1: I got to tell you I'm kind of surprised that 510 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 1: they still had the blouse, that this thing has survived 511 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 1: all these many years. Again, you know, I make mention 512 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 1: the fact that we're talking while I said sixty two, 513 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 1: but actually sixty one years ago. I guess when the 514 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 1: thing was first handed off or sixty years ago. It's 515 00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: first handed off to you know where we get down 516 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 1: to tacks and we started doing testing with our friends 517 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 1: at AUTH from Dave. 518 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 2: Well, you started off mentioning the list of things that 519 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 2: had to be done with the case from the organization, 520 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,799 Speaker 2: but something that gets skipped over. We used to call 521 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 2: it data entry. You know, there used to be jobs 522 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 2: for that, because when we were computerizing everything, you know, 523 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 2: you actually had jobs where people were hired to do 524 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 2: data entry. Oftentimes you were retyping memos to create a 525 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:27,920 Speaker 2: digital form of it, and that's what happened here. They 526 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 2: had to digitize all of the documents, Joe, just so 527 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,800 Speaker 2: that they could be then research. You cannot use a 528 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 2: computer for something if it's you know, it's garbage in, 529 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 2: garbage out. So they had to digitize the documents. They 530 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 2: had to do new site surveys, They had to go 531 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 2: out to the crime scene to where her body was found. 532 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:45,920 Speaker 2: They had to go back to well where was she 533 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:50,800 Speaker 2: last seen? And they did a review of other evidence, 534 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,319 Speaker 2: not just the blous that they had left, but all 535 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,760 Speaker 2: of the other evidence that was collected. And as we mentioned, dirt, 536 00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 2: twigs and other stuff was crammed in this child's mouth. Joe. Yeah, 537 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,800 Speaker 2: there were others. There were four large stones covering her body. 538 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 2: Now I'm going to guess that there was a lot 539 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 2: of evidence sitting there in that mess. 540 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, there probably was, and you don't if you walk 541 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:22,400 Speaker 1: into it blind. Let's say you're in some cavernous what 542 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,360 Speaker 1: am I trying to say, evidence room or warehouse. Yeah, 543 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: there's hundreds of other cases in there, stuff that's like 544 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 1: fresh that it's about to go to trial. And here 545 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,760 Speaker 1: you've got the stuff sitting in the back area back there, 546 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 1: and you're looking at this and you don't have an 547 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,280 Speaker 1: inventory list, for instance, or the file is all askew, 548 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: and you're looking at and you're thinking, Oh, my lord 549 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: in heaven, what does this even mean? Why? Why do 550 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: I have a bunch of decayed vegetable matter here? I 551 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know what that what that means. 552 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 1: And I'd like to address something right here real quick, 553 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 1: because you you really kind of breathed life into this. 554 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 1: For me from an education standpoint, and how we reconstruct 555 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:05,160 Speaker 1: crime scenes, I am always beating the drum with my 556 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 1: students about when they roll out onto a scene and 557 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:15,239 Speaker 1: you have a decedent that's laying there, we do a 558 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 1: thing called triangulation of the remains, where you actually do 559 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 1: a measurement to center mass of the chest. Okay, and 560 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 1: it has to be pulled to a fixed object, and 561 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,320 Speaker 1: it can't be a light pole because light poles change. 562 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:32,800 Speaker 1: But if you have some kind of benchmark in the ground, 563 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,279 Speaker 1: some kind of surveyor steak or something like that, that's there. 564 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 1: You can use a building, but again buildings can be 565 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,720 Speaker 1: torn down. We go to the top of the head 566 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 1: and then we go to the sole of one of 567 00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: the feet, okay, and you pull this triangulation of the body. Now, 568 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 1: hopefully they have crime scene images, which they would have 569 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,440 Speaker 1: back then. You want to get the orientation of the body. 570 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,320 Speaker 1: Was she in a prone to was she in supine? 571 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:06,200 Speaker 1: Was she recumbent? And you can actually lay down those 572 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,440 Speaker 1: measurements right there, Dave, and get an idea so that 573 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 1: if you took a mannequin back out there, you could 574 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: position the body in the original position that she would 575 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,359 Speaker 1: have been in or approximated, and that way people can 576 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 1: visualize this. And this is all these years later. That's 577 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,799 Speaker 1: why it's so important that you know when you're a 578 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,719 Speaker 1: crime seene investigator that what you do out there, you're 579 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,440 Speaker 1: very exacting in your measurements and the stuff, because look, 580 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 1: you might be dead and gone before somebody puts their 581 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,800 Speaker 1: hands on this on this file, and I can dollars 582 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: to donuts. I bet well, if they're not dead now, 583 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,400 Speaker 1: they're rapping on you know, rapping on the door the 584 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 1: people that originally worked on this case, because they would 585 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,719 Speaker 1: be up in age. Your recall ain't too much. I mean, 586 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 1: even at this stage in my life, my recall is 587 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 1: not that much. But Dave, you know they were able 588 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:04,840 Speaker 1: to take a sample from Mary Teresa's clothing that she 589 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:10,719 Speaker 1: had left behind. I'm having I have to think that 590 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:16,759 Speaker 1: this is probably probably ejaculate that they've got. I guess 591 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,319 Speaker 1: there could be something else. I can only imagine that 592 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,800 Speaker 1: the ejaculate would be something that would be so robust 593 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,840 Speaker 1: that they could take a sample from it would be 594 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 1: multiple deposition, which means that even if this was and 595 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:36,839 Speaker 1: I really wonder, and I know this is rather grotesque, 596 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:41,319 Speaker 1: but I'm wondering to the extent of how much she 597 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:45,680 Speaker 1: was sexually assaulted in the sense of was she was 598 00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:49,560 Speaker 1: it like a penetrative rape or did he further humiliate 599 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:55,279 Speaker 1: her by terrorizing her and ejaculating on her as she 600 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: watched and then choked her out. You know a lot 601 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: of that stuff is lost in and I don't even 602 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,720 Speaker 1: know that you would be able to kind of size 603 00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,040 Speaker 1: that up even the modern context. But that's kind of 604 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:10,560 Speaker 1: thing that you have to look for. And maybe they 605 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:12,480 Speaker 1: did a rape kit back then. Maybe they've got the 606 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 1: swabs from that. I have no idea at this point, 607 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:21,359 Speaker 1: but I know this in Woodlands, Texas, AUTHORAM is headquartered there, 608 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:27,120 Speaker 1: and because of their efforts of AUTHORM, they've been able 609 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:32,600 Speaker 1: to shed light on a case, and not just shed light, 610 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 1: but right now, somewhere out there, there are a group 611 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,359 Speaker 1: of investigators that have probably I don't know, in their 612 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:44,279 Speaker 1: own little way, they've been celebrating because on February the 613 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 1: tenth of twenty twenty six, they're going to make an announcement. 614 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,360 Speaker 1: They're going to make an announcement that points the finger 615 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:59,080 Speaker 1: directly at the person that violated and murdered this child. 616 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 1: And it's all because of the efforts of AUTHORM and 617 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:08,640 Speaker 1: all because of the efforts that this law enforcement agency 618 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 1: didn't quit. If you want to participate in any way 619 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,000 Speaker 1: in solving a case, maybe a case very similar to 620 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:21,160 Speaker 1: Mary Teresa, I urge you to visit d Ina Solves. 621 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:25,560 Speaker 1: That's d in a solved dot com and there you 622 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 1: can find a list of current cold cases that they 623 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:33,680 Speaker 1: are trying to start this process on. Wouldn't it be 624 00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:38,759 Speaker 1: wonderful to actually participate in something like this? And I 625 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:47,280 Speaker 1: would like to trumpet the intentions of authorm and specifically David, 626 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,440 Speaker 1: who I've had several conversations with. His goal is to 627 00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,439 Speaker 1: clear out that damn name us list all of these 628 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 1: unidentified bodies. Isn't that a noble goal? Isn't that something 629 00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 1: we can get behind. I hope that you'll consider it 630 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,600 Speaker 1: and then they're not asking for thousands and thousands of 631 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 1: dollars whatever you can I don't know, as they say 632 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:07,360 Speaker 1: in church, where you can put into plate, you know, 633 00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 1: and let them do with it what they do best, 634 00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:17,279 Speaker 1: and that is solve cases. Let's see what happens with 635 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:24,680 Speaker 1: Mary Teresa and who this monster was. I'm Joseph Scott 636 00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,840 Speaker 1: Morgan and this is bodybacks