Speaker 1: NFL Explained is a production of the NFL in partnership
Speaker 1: with iHeartRadio. I don't even know how to respond to
Speaker 1: all this new environment, new studio, no desk. I'm like,
Speaker 1: should I have worn the g I don't even know
Speaker 1: what's going on here, but I do know it is
Speaker 1: a brand new edition of NFL Explained. We got the
Speaker 1: NFL Draft, which is around the corner here. I know
Speaker 1: you are excited. Oh yeah, by the way, screwbol Chap,
Speaker 1: Michael Robinson, Mike cam with you. April thirtieth, two thousand
Speaker 1: and six. That date should resonate. It should It didn't
Speaker 1: until I read a little bit of what was going
Speaker 1: on today about the show, and then I did not
Speaker 1: know that long ago. That's when I got drafted. It
Speaker 1: was April thirtieth, and you know what, I had a
Speaker 1: draft party, two yams. Did I did? I thought? You know?
Speaker 1: So look, let me tell you a little story. Another
Speaker 1: network with four letters. I can't say that that other network,
Speaker 1: but it's another four letter network, not the NFL network,
Speaker 1: but another network said hey, Mike, we want to send
Speaker 1: some cameras to where you're gonna be at for the draft.
Speaker 1: And in two thousand and six. The first three rounds
Speaker 1: was on the first night, and then the second day
Speaker 1: was the next four rounds, and so I said, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't think I want a camera man because what
Speaker 1: if I do not go where I think? And all
Speaker 1: these teams are telling me I'm gonna go, And everybody said, hey, Mike,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be probably second third round. That's like your
Speaker 1: ceiling your floors, like you know, bottom of the fourth
Speaker 1: or fifth, and I'm like, okay, all right. Third round
Speaker 1: came around. I had the Pittsburgh Steelers callman. They said, hey, Mike,
Speaker 1: we got two picks in this round. You're gonna be
Speaker 1: one of them. If the board falls the way we
Speaker 1: think it's gonna fall, you're gonna be one of them.
Speaker 1: I never forget their first pick came up. I think
Speaker 1: they drafted at the time. It was a kick return specialist.
Speaker 1: I think his name was Willie Read out of Florida State.
Speaker 1: We had just played Florida State in Orange Bowl. That's
Speaker 1: why I resonated so much with me. Okay, so I
Speaker 1: knew exactly who the guy was. The second third round pick,
Speaker 1: I think it was a quarterback maybe or something like that,
Speaker 1: out of Bowling Green I could be wrong about some
Speaker 1: of the players, but those two guys stood out of
Speaker 1: my mind, and I'm thinking I didn't go in the
Speaker 1: third where they told me I would go, and they
Speaker 1: picked two positions that I know how to play. I
Speaker 1: can return kicks and I can play quarterback. So I
Speaker 1: was a little upset on draft night, but it was
Speaker 1: all good. I ended up getting drafted. It ended up
Speaker 1: it worked. Yeah, it worked out. So you just mentioned
Speaker 1: you got a phone call, and I start to think
Speaker 1: about all the images when we watched the draft of
Speaker 1: guys getting the call. I always just kind of assumed
Speaker 1: once you got the call, then you knew. But you're
Speaker 1: telling me you got a call, and it didn't play
Speaker 1: out that way. No, it didn't got the call, and mean, yams,
Speaker 1: you got any stand Bro. I had just bought a
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven because it was in two thousand
Speaker 1: and six, so you know the next year is the
Speaker 1: one that comes out. So I just bought a two
Speaker 1: thousand and seven Chevy Tahoe. Bro. That's when they just
Speaker 1: changed the body styles a little bit more aerial dynamic.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I'm telling you, Bro, I drove it right
Speaker 1: off the car like I brought off the showroom floor.
Speaker 1: They opened the big doors from me and I drove
Speaker 1: it off. I bought that truck the day before the
Speaker 1: first three rounds and I'm thinking, okay, I'm going I'm
Speaker 1: gonna have some money to pay for this, and bro,
Speaker 1: you when that third round ended and my name wasn't called,
Speaker 1: you can ask the car and I'm like, yo, I
Speaker 1: can't pay by my car. I had to get my
Speaker 1: car back. I was so hurt. I didn't really understand
Speaker 1: the business of the National Football League in that time.
Speaker 1: But uh, I ended up going the next day, so
Speaker 1: it's all good. So it is all good, typically speaking
Speaker 1: though that experience, because we always, even on NFL Network
Speaker 1: on draft Day, we're playing a lot of the videos
Speaker 1: of the guys actually getting the calls because the camera
Speaker 1: crews are obviously, uh you know, in the team draft
Speaker 1: rooms and then we have cameras around those players. Every
Speaker 1: time we get one of those one of those calls,
Speaker 1: it's a guy, Hey, how do you feel about being
Speaker 1: you know what York Giant or New York Jet or
Speaker 1: whatever the case may be. I hadn't I didn't realize
Speaker 1: that those calls actually happened. When it Oh yeah, they
Speaker 1: call you hey, say hey, um, you know we think
Speaker 1: about you. You know what I mean, We just want
Speaker 1: to get you ready, And it just so happened. From
Speaker 1: a television standpoint, what we see is what we're allowed
Speaker 1: to see. I think sometimes we don't always see those
Speaker 1: calls that happened, because the next morning it was the
Speaker 1: fourth round and I woke up to having nine missed
Speaker 1: calls from a four weight number and I had, and
Speaker 1: I'm sitting there like, what the hell is this? Like
Speaker 1: somebody spamming me or something. Finally I pick up one
Speaker 1: of those calls. It's Scott McCluin and the general manager
Speaker 1: for the sever Sico forty nine ers, and I ain't
Speaker 1: gonnat of. He said, yeah, I'm Scott and mclun I said,
Speaker 1: for real, stop playing hung up on him because I
Speaker 1: was upset. I was supposed to go on third round out,
Speaker 1: so they told me, you know what I'm saying. And
Speaker 1: then he called back and he said, don't hang up,
Speaker 1: and he was laughing because he knew I was upset
Speaker 1: because they were in the Senior Bowl and I was
Speaker 1: in the Senior Bowl, so they I kind of knew
Speaker 1: what type of person I was. He said, Man, I'm
Speaker 1: telling you, bro, we got the second pick today. We
Speaker 1: don't have to have the board fall to us. We
Speaker 1: know exactly who we want. We're gonna pick you up.
Speaker 1: I said, Okay, I don't believe it until I actually
Speaker 1: see whoever's calling the picks out today. Save my name goodbye.
Speaker 1: And then they called my name and I was yeah,
Speaker 1: all the emotions came then, Yeah, because your dreams come true.
Speaker 1: You had told me this a while ago. We were
Speaker 1: doing our Super Bowl episode and you said, I think
Speaker 1: four tickets the players were allotted. So you said, if
Speaker 1: you helped me move into Penn State, you were getting
Speaker 1: absolutely right. The draft party, by the way, I would
Speaker 1: assume it was larger than just it was larger, but
Speaker 1: it was just it was still more of the closer
Speaker 1: people in my network, like we had. I had some
Speaker 1: of the other guys at Penn State who was getting drafted.
Speaker 1: Tombahali and those guys were around. But at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, no, man, it's about the people that
Speaker 1: helped get you there. You just want to share in
Speaker 1: a moment with them, all right. So on this episode,
Speaker 1: we're going to go through the NFL Draft. We're getting
Speaker 1: you ready and just giving you some context on just
Speaker 1: sort of the history and maybe some trends that could
Speaker 1: even impact what we're going to see at the end
Speaker 1: of April. But let's start with the quarterbacks here. It
Speaker 1: really shouldn't come to anyone's surprise that that has been
Speaker 1: the most taken position in the Common Draft era, or
Speaker 1: since nineteen sixty seven. Twenty six times signal caller has
Speaker 1: gone number one overall. Defensive ends next at thirteen taken
Speaker 1: in that top spot six of the last eight number
Speaker 1: ones have been quarterbacks. But the hit rate over that
Speaker 1: spam it has been underwhelming, to say the least. In fact,
Speaker 1: you got to go back to twenty eleven the top pick,
Speaker 1: Cam Newton that year. If you want to find a
Speaker 1: quarterback that went one overall that was also named to
Speaker 1: an All Pro team prior to that, you got to
Speaker 1: go to Peyton Manning, who was drafted in nineteen ninety eight.
Speaker 1: Another crazy staff for you, m Rob the New York Jets,
Speaker 1: who have been much discussed in recent weeks. You're not
Speaker 1: alone Mark Sanchez. They drafted him in two thousand nine.
Speaker 1: Geno Smith, congrats to him. They took him in twenty thirteen.
Speaker 1: Of course, Gino just getting a new deal with the Seahawks.
Speaker 1: Sam Darnold in twenty eighteen. After three seasons, all of
Speaker 1: them had the worst passer rating in the league. It
Speaker 1: actually doesn't get much better. They drafted Zach Wilson in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one after two seasons, he's got the worst
Speaker 1: passer rating in the league. So you can make a
Speaker 1: comment about drafting and the way it sounds like we're
Speaker 1: picking on the Jets. I don't mean to pick on
Speaker 1: the Jets. There's a lot of teams that you can
Speaker 1: look at their draft history. It's not a perfect song
Speaker 1: spitting facts though. It's not like you're making this up
Speaker 1: or you know, putting it in a certain these are
Speaker 1: just straight facts. They draft a quarterback seems like every
Speaker 1: three or four years. Okay, so last year in the
Speaker 1: draft we saw Rock Party mister Irrelevant, which means the
Speaker 1: last pick in the draft. Star obviously led that team
Speaker 1: into the postseason. It got me thinking, here, does it
Speaker 1: make sense, no matter where you're picking, because most teams
Speaker 1: have multiple picks in the NFL draft, to take a
Speaker 1: quarterback every single year? I would say, yeah, why not? Right?
Speaker 1: They become tangible assets for you later on you know,
Speaker 1: but just and I think it underscores the fact that
Speaker 1: there's just not a lot of these human beings walking
Speaker 1: the planet that can win a game exclusively off of
Speaker 1: the skill sets that they possess, whether it's their arm,
Speaker 1: their running ability, whatever the case may be. And the
Speaker 1: quarterback position is more about than what you just do
Speaker 1: it on the football field, right, It's about what's going
Speaker 1: on in the locker room. It's about how you carry
Speaker 1: that message from that locker room and permeated throughout the community.
Speaker 1: You're literally the face of the franchise. So it's a
Speaker 1: lot that goes along with that. But yeah, I would
Speaker 1: draft a quarterback no matter when. Now you can make
Speaker 1: an argument about drafting them in the first round, I think,
Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, if it gets
Speaker 1: late in the draft and you've met the needs of
Speaker 1: your team, if a quarterback is the next guy on
Speaker 1: your board, why not take them. Eventually it might turn
Speaker 1: into picks for you. So think about it. Let's spend
Speaker 1: ahead here to this year's NFL draft, because we know
Speaker 1: the quarterback spot, which by the way, we did a
Speaker 1: whole episode on quarterbacks and the evaluation and who the
Speaker 1: goat is highly encourage you guys to go and check
Speaker 1: that episode out. But this year it's a little tough.
Speaker 1: You got four quarterbacks that potentially could go in the
Speaker 1: first round. By all accounts, that looks like that's going
Speaker 1: to be the case. And maybe there's a fifth in
Speaker 1: Hendon Hooker out of Tennessee. But the point is, in
Speaker 1: no particular order. CJ. Stroud, Brcy come to mind, Anthony
Speaker 1: Richardson and Will Levis. All of those guys, we saw
Speaker 1: them at the combine. Bryce was the only one who
Speaker 1: didn't throw. They all do things a little bit differently.
Speaker 1: So if you're a general manager, take me through that
Speaker 1: evaluation process. You need a quarterback. You're in the first round.
Speaker 1: Maybe you got a quarterback already. Maybe you know, you
Speaker 1: look at Anthony Richardson and you speculate maybe he could
Speaker 1: be a developmental project. How do you evaluate where you're
Speaker 1: going to take those guys and what they potentially could
Speaker 1: be at the NFL level. Because the other guys, by
Speaker 1: the way that the Jets took that I made reference to,
Speaker 1: we thought they were pretty good quarterbacks, right like the
Speaker 1: Jets took those guys in the first round. We thought
Speaker 1: they were going to have success there's no perfect science
Speaker 1: to explaining what a guy is going to do on Sundays. No,
Speaker 1: it's no perfect science. That's why I think the decision
Speaker 1: makers of every organization you have to have the knowledge itself.
Speaker 1: What I mean by that is the knowledge of your
Speaker 1: organization to understand your coaching staff. It's about developing these kids.
Speaker 1: It's about making sure you got the guy to communicate
Speaker 1: with him. For instance, I remember talking to coach Hardball
Speaker 1: from the Ravens a few years ago at an owner's
Speaker 1: meeting and we were talking about Lamar, and you know,
Speaker 1: it was very excited about Lamar. I think this was
Speaker 1: the year before Lamar was about to win the MVP
Speaker 1: or whatever, and he was very excited. And I said, well, coach,
Speaker 1: who do you having the building to actually talk to
Speaker 1: Lamar that Lamar respects from a player's standpoint or whatever
Speaker 1: the case may be. And he kind of just looked
Speaker 1: at me and I say, Yeah, that's something that has
Speaker 1: to be addressed because Yams, imagine being at quarterback, right,
Speaker 1: you drop back, Okay, you drop back the pass you're
Speaker 1: looking and you're reading the defense or whatever, and when
Speaker 1: you drop back, you know you're the vastest most dynamic
Speaker 1: player on the field. You know how hard it is
Speaker 1: to actually throw the ball after that, you know, you
Speaker 1: know it takes a level of responsibility to do that.
Speaker 1: So you have to speak to that guy differently. He's
Speaker 1: not going to throw that out on with timing. He's
Speaker 1: gonna throw curls and comebacks a little bit better than
Speaker 1: he throws outbreaking routes and things like that, just because
Speaker 1: of the nature of the anticipation, the nature of him
Speaker 1: being like, why would I risk the ball when I
Speaker 1: can actually run it. I remember Joe Paterno telling me, dude,
Speaker 1: it's fourth down. What the hell are we doing? Mike.
Speaker 1: I know we called a pass play, but you better
Speaker 1: get the going, you know what I'm saying. And you
Speaker 1: got to have the right people on your coaching staff
Speaker 1: and in the building to talk to that kid and
Speaker 1: get the most out of that kid. And then you
Speaker 1: got to look at the individual situations too. If you're
Speaker 1: a team that you know you have a solid running game,
Speaker 1: you have pieces, you have a defense that can get
Speaker 1: a young quarterback out of trouble, maybe C. J. Stroud
Speaker 1: is the way to go, because he does look a
Speaker 1: little bit more ready to play right now. And can
Speaker 1: operate an offense right now, maybe if you're looking at
Speaker 1: a guy like an Anthony richard said, yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that would be a project right now. The guy needs
Speaker 1: more game reps. That was one of the differences that
Speaker 1: was told to me, Mike. We look at Matt Liner,
Speaker 1: we look at Vince Young, who were in my draft
Speaker 1: class as well. Those guys have at least twenty five
Speaker 1: hundred more game reps than you. Those are reps that, obviously,
Speaker 1: on the experience, gives you, okay, a lot to pack
Speaker 1: here because what you just described for Lamar Jackson makes
Speaker 1: me think Anthony Richardson's measurables and athletic display at the
Speaker 1: Combine would give me pause and say, you know what,
Speaker 1: like I can work with that, because I can't teach
Speaker 1: a dude to run that fast, to be that size
Speaker 1: and athletic. But then he had opportunities when he was
Speaker 1: at Florida in the SEC, like they didn't win a
Speaker 1: ton of games. And on top of that his production.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're talking about a fifty three percent passer
Speaker 1: out there. I don't know how to evaluate a guy
Speaker 1: based off of the freak athleticism because you just mentioned
Speaker 1: this with Lamar. And by the way, Lamar, I think
Speaker 1: it was a better passer than Anthony Richardson was coming out,
Speaker 1: So not exactly lamp, but I was a starter for
Speaker 1: a while in college. He had more game reps. He
Speaker 1: actually was in the game doing these things a lot
Speaker 1: longer than Anthony Richardson. And to your point, I think
Speaker 1: I know where you're going with it, Yams. It's the
Speaker 1: same on the reverse end. Like we look at Bryce Young,
Speaker 1: is he so good because he's playing with cadillacs ands
Speaker 1: as opposed because the talent is so up there. You
Speaker 1: have to look at that with the top guys as well.
Speaker 1: I think in Anthony Rigison's case, anybody could look at
Speaker 1: Florida and tell that they lack a little bit, they
Speaker 1: lack a little bit of skill playing in sec Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I'm with you. And look once again, quarterback clearly the
Speaker 1: premium position. But when you look at which positions have
Speaker 1: actually seen an increase in top ten selections over the
Speaker 1: last twenty two years. The number of quarterbacks m ROB
Speaker 1: taken in the top ten over a five year period
Speaker 1: from two thousand to two thousand and four, that was seven.
Speaker 1: We've already seen six taken in the top ten in
Speaker 1: a three year period from twenty twenty to twenty twenty two. Now,
Speaker 1: edge defenders offensive tackles they've also seen a jump, but
Speaker 1: cornerback has already seen six players taken in the top
Speaker 1: ten over a three year span twenty twenty through twenty
Speaker 1: twenty two, which actually ties them with quarterbacks and offensive
Speaker 1: tackles for the most taken over that span. Running backs
Speaker 1: call the way I know this is going to make
Speaker 1: you come, make you cringe. None in the last three years,
Speaker 1: the last and being se Quon Barkley in twenty eighteen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: are we going to see a running back? Like? Is
Speaker 1: that going to change moving forward? Or is it sort
Speaker 1: of Look, we even said it's the running back. We
Speaker 1: did an episode on that, is it? You know? Is
Speaker 1: it a position that is sort of thankless? Like part
Speaker 1: of me says the answer my ps here. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I hate to say it, but it's just one of
Speaker 1: those things like when you look at young football players. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, when I was young, you know, seven eight
Speaker 1: years old playing literal league football, and I would have dreams,
Speaker 1: you know, laying around in the yard playing or whatever
Speaker 1: and daydreaming about playing football. Most of the time you
Speaker 1: have day dreams about running the ball, yeah, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. Or if you're one of those quarterbacks
Speaker 1: I've used to have dreams and visions about throwing the
Speaker 1: ball in the tight windows and you get the music
Speaker 1: in your head and all of that. You rarely see
Speaker 1: guys day dreaming about blocking or you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: I know it sounds funny, but that's that's how it is.
Speaker 1: And I think that's why you can find so many runners.
Speaker 1: I think the wide receiver position, with all the seven
Speaker 1: on seven that's going on at the younger age groups,
Speaker 1: I think the wide receiver position is in danger of
Speaker 1: that becoming like the running back position. Where you can
Speaker 1: find a guy that runs the four or three, you
Speaker 1: can find a guy that can catch you can I mean,
Speaker 1: they all have some of these traits, and that's why
Speaker 1: I'm always advocate for running back. I think the running
Speaker 1: backs should have their own CBA. Man. I'm telling you
Speaker 1: they need to no contracts longer than three years. They
Speaker 1: can always go back at you know, kind of go
Speaker 1: back at it. And it's because when we get the
Speaker 1: football seven yards deep behind the line of scrimmage, all
Speaker 1: eleven defenders are locked in on us and trying to
Speaker 1: get the football. There is trying to make the tackle, Yams.
Speaker 1: There is no other position like that. When a quarterback
Speaker 1: drops back at the most times, he may have seven
Speaker 1: guys trying to rush at him. Receiver catches the ball
Speaker 1: down field that you're limited to the guys that are
Speaker 1: hitting you. Every time be Smoll got the football all
Speaker 1: eleven guys, tension was up. It was assault in a
Speaker 1: line of scrimmage, and to me, just the nature of
Speaker 1: the position is a little different. Yeah, it's almost like describing, well,
Speaker 1: when I was a kid, you play killed the man
Speaker 1: with the ball, Like that's kind of exactly what you're
Speaker 1: describing when you're talking about throwing up and run. It's
Speaker 1: real simple, throw it up and run without football. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, Welcome back to the NFL Explained podcasts. Mike
Speaker 1: Am and Rob with you. You just mentioned the wide
Speaker 1: receiver spot. We did an episode of NFL Explaining on
Speaker 1: the evolution of offenses and we talked about the utilization
Speaker 1: of wide receivers and how effective they are in offenses
Speaker 1: and more of a concerted effort to get those guys
Speaker 1: the football. To me, that explains why we're seeing a
Speaker 1: run of corners here like we have. Is that a
Speaker 1: clear answer? That is clear? Again, everything has to be
Speaker 1: has to it revolves around the quarterback, right, So you're
Speaker 1: going to see quarterbacks obviously go a lot in the
Speaker 1: first round. You're gonna see pass rushers go because that
Speaker 1: pass rushers affect the quarterback and obviously quarterbacks there on
Speaker 1: the football to wilde receivers. So defensive backs, more defensive
Speaker 1: backs on the field. I think now the number one
Speaker 1: personnel in the National Football League is Nickel. It's eleven personnel,
Speaker 1: three wide receivers, are tight end, and a running back.
Speaker 1: So yeah, you're gonna need more defensive backs. Okay, so
Speaker 1: I brought up sa Quon Barkley before. You were just
Speaker 1: talking to me about running backs. The Giants coming off
Speaker 1: of a brutal season in twenty seventeen, there were so
Speaker 1: many needs that they had, including quarterback. By the way,
Speaker 1: when they decided to go Barkley number two overall, Look,
Speaker 1: maybe he's the best player on the board at that point,
Speaker 1: I would venture probably yes, as they were assessing it,
Speaker 1: but there were so many needs that they had. We
Speaker 1: just talked about the running back spot and maybe you know,
Speaker 1: thinking that you can get some of those other guys.
Speaker 1: Sort of the same thing happened with the Falcons. Remember
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one they drafted Kyle Pitts the tight
Speaker 1: end fourth. Overall, there were other needs that were there,
Speaker 1: So I guess the big picture question is how often
Speaker 1: or should teams think about positional need and finding guys
Speaker 1: that can help them immediately or do you just take
Speaker 1: best player on the board Yams. There's no one answer
Speaker 1: fer this, man. I think every team is in different situations.
Speaker 1: But when you talk to general managers, at least in
Speaker 1: my experience talking to league general managers, you can never
Speaker 1: have enough elite players. If you just take the best guy,
Speaker 1: oftentimes you have more success in the long haul of
Speaker 1: things than in the short haul of things. Sometimes when
Speaker 1: you just take positional needs in the draft, sometimes the
Speaker 1: business of the National Football League to follow when you
Speaker 1: can make those needs look irrelevant or may have changed
Speaker 1: just based off of coaching staff changes and things like that.
Speaker 1: So to me, you never go wrong taking elite talents.
Speaker 1: I do understand the running back child conversation, but to me,
Speaker 1: sae Quan was a generational talent. Andrew and Peterson, Marshawn Lynch,
Speaker 1: these guys are generational talents. And if you can find
Speaker 1: one of those guys, I think you take them. Do
Speaker 1: we evaluate? Because I'm listening to what you're saying, and
Speaker 1: I'm about how I even phrase the question to you
Speaker 1: and the examples that I gave, there's a part of
Speaker 1: me that says, best player available. It always feels like
Speaker 1: we're talking about a skill position guy, right, Like you
Speaker 1: could make an argument that you can't go wrong getting
Speaker 1: big boys up front. Right. But see, now you're in
Speaker 1: my world now, yam see, because that's what I love.
Speaker 1: If I'm a building the team, I'm building man from
Speaker 1: the trenches. Because again, I look at it like this.
Speaker 1: There's two positional groups in the National Football League. And
Speaker 1: I've had a lot of smart people in the National
Speaker 1: Football League explain this to me. There's two positional groups.
Speaker 1: You cannot win without offensive line, yep. In secondary, the
Speaker 1: offensive line is your engine. They can help out the
Speaker 1: defense if you got an offensive line that can roll
Speaker 1: grade and you can just hand the football off and
Speaker 1: play four minute offense whenever you want to help your
Speaker 1: defense out. And then the secondary if you cannot give
Speaker 1: up the big play. If once a ball carrier breaks
Speaker 1: through your front seven and you have sure tacklers. That's
Speaker 1: why I love the mcquarity twins. Those dudes were sure tacklers.
Speaker 1: You can say what you want to say about him
Speaker 1: in coverage or whatever, but both of those guys were
Speaker 1: sure tacklers, and that's really what you want in the secondary.
Speaker 1: And to me, the secondaries like the battery of your car.
Speaker 1: You can't really operate a vehicle without the engine in
Speaker 1: the battery. I thought you were going to say, d Line,
Speaker 1: to be honest with you, Yeah, well you can manufacture pressure.
Speaker 1: So not to get too much into the weeds on this,
Speaker 1: but I do think about a recent addition. And obviously
Speaker 1: we were just coming off the heels of free agent frenzy,
Speaker 1: where we're just seeing all this player movement. The San
Speaker 1: Francisco forty nine ers led a couple of their guys
Speaker 1: in the secondary walking free agency, and yet they bring
Speaker 1: him Hardgrave out of Philadelphia. They already got Nick Bosa.
Speaker 1: But based off of what you're describing to me, but
Speaker 1: they were getting pressure anyway, right they were. I'm almost
Speaker 1: surprised if secondary is so important the Niners. And look,
Speaker 1: there's a hundred different ways that's gonna catch. I don't
Speaker 1: even know if that's a good phrase to use. But
Speaker 1: the point is, you know where I'm going going with that.
Speaker 1: But like from a Niner's perspective, maybe they just don't
Speaker 1: subscribe to that theory about secondary being the most the
Speaker 1: second most important thing, or maybe they know they have
Speaker 1: the coaching staff to develop whoever the draft in the draft,
Speaker 1: you see what I'm saying. So again, it always goes
Speaker 1: back to your individual team's situation, like I know in Seattle,
Speaker 1: because you know, obviously I want a Super Bowl with them.
Speaker 1: Pete was a defensive back guy. That's why you look
Speaker 1: over his tenure. He's able to find a Terric Woolin.
Speaker 1: He's able to find a Richard Sherman or Brandon Brown
Speaker 1: or Earl Thomas. If you have the coach and staff
Speaker 1: to develop what you want, then yeah, you can let
Speaker 1: important pieces go. You talk about that San Franco for
Speaker 1: the nine of thing. I think the San Francico fort
Speaker 1: and now has got some news. Maybe they're gonna end
Speaker 1: up making here soon. Okay, all right, I ain't breaking
Speaker 1: no news. I'm just saying I just look, they've been quiet.
Speaker 1: They got some assets that they can move around. I
Speaker 1: just I got a feeling they're gonna make a play
Speaker 1: for some money. So we'll double teas here the teams
Speaker 1: that Rob just gave you and this one because we've
Speaker 1: talked about the trends and the players being drafted. But
Speaker 1: when we come back, we'll get into how a general
Speaker 1: manager and an NFL team balances built through the draft
Speaker 1: or is it better to go through free agency. That's
Speaker 1: coming up next on the NFL Explained Podcast. All right,
Speaker 1: back here on the NFL Explained Podcast, m Rob and
Speaker 1: Mike am with you. All right, there is a balance
Speaker 1: because we talked through some of the trends that we've
Speaker 1: seen in the draft. Sometimes you know, you might lean
Speaker 1: one way if you're a GM when it comes to
Speaker 1: a player's actual traits and what they've done or some
Speaker 1: of the production by traits. I'm talking about things like
Speaker 1: arm length, speed, jumping, the things that are measured at
Speaker 1: the combine. A good example this year CJ. Strad Ohio
Speaker 1: State ridiculously productive in college. Anthony Richardson. Though you see
Speaker 1: the arm talent, you saw the speed. The dude ran
Speaker 1: a forty and even run in a straight line. And
Speaker 1: we're all sitting there going, dude, this guy is really good.
Speaker 1: How you just don't give him a reverse and just say,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, people to get out of
Speaker 1: his way and just figure it out. Jordan Addison, he
Speaker 1: certainly comes to my big college production. When he was
Speaker 1: at Pit Bullet and Coffee Word Winner, I know people
Speaker 1: were down on his production at SC. He did miss
Speaker 1: a couple of games. He was flirting with a thousand yards.
Speaker 1: I think he missed three games. But the point is
Speaker 1: Zay Flowers, Quentin Johnston's traits at the wide receiver spot.
Speaker 1: There's different ways you can go, you know. Addison I
Speaker 1: think was more on the production side. Some of those
Speaker 1: other guys more on the trade side. So if you're
Speaker 1: a general manager, how do you balance leaning towards production
Speaker 1: on Saturdays versus Oh my god, like this dude just
Speaker 1: just testing off the charts. Okay, I'm gonna use your term.
Speaker 1: You say traits, I say genetics. It's all the same
Speaker 1: to me. I lean on the traits side because see,
Speaker 1: I feel like, if you're a great coach, you can
Speaker 1: get through to anyone. You can coach anyone. And when
Speaker 1: you and I'm gonna use Anthony Richardson because you use
Speaker 1: his name in the setup six five, two hundred and
Speaker 1: forty seven pounds. You run a sub four. You cannot
Speaker 1: coach there now, you just can't. Some of the production
Speaker 1: things that you see from other prospects or whatever. Sometimes
Speaker 1: that can be scan sometimes that can be people you're
Speaker 1: playing against. If you're evaluating, you just want to see
Speaker 1: the physical traits that you're excited about show up on tape.
Speaker 1: You want to see that big strong arm of Anthony Richardson.
Speaker 1: I want to see him throw at sixty yards. I
Speaker 1: want to see if he actually did it in a game. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I want to see that that sub four four speed
Speaker 1: show up. I want to see the size and power
Speaker 1: show up, because if it doesn't show up in the game,
Speaker 1: then that means, you know, possibly this player doesn't possess
Speaker 1: the ability to translate those traits into organized game situation.
Speaker 1: So I run from that particular player. But no, you
Speaker 1: do not go wrong getting a big, strong, fast player.
Speaker 1: I remember having a conversation with Trent Baki, the general
Speaker 1: manager of the Jacksonville Jaguars, just about that. He's like, yeah, bro,
Speaker 1: you big, strong and fast. I mean that's just what
Speaker 1: that's what this game is all about. It is still
Speaker 1: a physical game, and it's still a trait driven game.
Speaker 1: You were asked that. I don't know if you told
Speaker 1: the story on air or off air, but I remember
Speaker 1: you telling me that you were asked, Hey, would you
Speaker 1: do you have to be a quarterback if we drafted
Speaker 1: you during your draft process, Anthony Richardson, I do get
Speaker 1: concerned just about the completion percentage. And I know people say, well,
Speaker 1: Josh Allen was like fifty, which is just a tick better,
Speaker 1: and look what he is at the NFL level. You know,
Speaker 1: Josh also won some games, Anthony, I don't didn't produce
Speaker 1: against really good defenses in the SEC. Is it fair
Speaker 1: to ask, is Anthony Richardson because of those traits? Team
Speaker 1: might go, you know what, maybe he's not a quarterback.
Speaker 1: That's a loaded question because I believe the game has
Speaker 1: changed enough. I believe the position has changed enough that
Speaker 1: it may be almost disrespectful to X that kid to
Speaker 1: change positions right now. It wasn't disrespectful to Michael Robinson
Speaker 1: in two thousand and six because the style hadn't been
Speaker 1: legitimized yet. We just saw Jalen Hurts, who was an
Speaker 1: MVP candidate last year, play one of the best Super
Speaker 1: Bowls ever. He lost, but the game in which he
Speaker 1: played was off the chain. And I mean I saw
Speaker 1: Jalen Hurts thrive in the SEC, thrive in the big twelve,
Speaker 1: win football games, and make throws candidly on Sundays and
Speaker 1: in the postseason that not many dudes in the NFL
Speaker 1: can actually make. Maybe Richardson gets there, but that's where
Speaker 1: I hedge, man, That's why it's a problem for me. Again,
Speaker 1: Jalen Hurts His way to the SEC and through the
Speaker 1: SEC was a little bit different than Anthony Richardson's. I
Speaker 1: believe Jalen Hurts had a great amount of coaching. They
Speaker 1: get him to a certain place, and then when you
Speaker 1: look at, you know, his success in the National Football League.
Speaker 1: I always go back to what Nick Sirianni said earlier
Speaker 1: this year. He said last year, it got to a
Speaker 1: point where we said, you know what, Jalen may not
Speaker 1: be seeing the field the way we want to while
Speaker 1: we calling these plays. Just to be calling these plays,
Speaker 1: Let's go back to this Oklahoma running game and build
Speaker 1: our passing game around his running game ability. And that's
Speaker 1: when his special ability started to show up again. I'm
Speaker 1: saying you can have the genetic traits, but it's on
Speaker 1: the coach to be able to figure out a way
Speaker 1: to utilize those traits. In skime, it goes back to
Speaker 1: and I know anyone who's a diehard football fan and
Speaker 1: even your casual fans, and I know I get the
Speaker 1: DMS people in the UK that are trying to learn
Speaker 1: about football or Australia and they're listening to this podcast.
Speaker 1: You're gonna hear this phrase thrown out a whole lot.
Speaker 1: But I think what m Rob's describing it's actually perfect.
Speaker 1: And I hate using it because it feels lazy but fit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, it really truly does come down to that.
Speaker 1: You know, many players and Robi you've probably played with
Speaker 1: that were drafted maybe didn't have the careers that they
Speaker 1: should have had because they just were taken by the
Speaker 1: team that couldn't figure it out. I mean it's a
Speaker 1: little heartbreaking for dudes. Absolutely. I just go back to
Speaker 1: my time in San Francisco. I left there in twenty ten.
Speaker 1: They were in the Super Bowl in twenty twelve. Twenty
Speaker 1: four months later. Yeah, it was only one real change.
Speaker 1: They drafted Kaepernick and let him play, but everybody else
Speaker 1: was pretty much the same right new coach now and
Speaker 1: sometimes again usas breed different results. Okay, so we were
Speaker 1: talking about the evolution of you know, the quarterback spot
Speaker 1: once again another episode that you can go and check out.
Speaker 1: But you had said, for Richardson, disrespectful. Now because of
Speaker 1: the era of the game and it being legitimized, I
Speaker 1: think we're also seeing an inflection point in the league draft,
Speaker 1: your free agency. How do you build a team to
Speaker 1: get there? And maybe some teams saw what the Rams
Speaker 1: did and said, you know what, maybe buying it one
Speaker 1: year and we know where it's now fallen to and
Speaker 1: it's a little bit of a fire sale for some
Speaker 1: of these teams or for the Rams specifically. But I
Speaker 1: do think that's worth thrown out there, and for those
Speaker 1: who aren't aware. Obviously, the Rams got their Super Bowl
Speaker 1: title in twenty twenty one. Matthew Stafford, Jalen Ramsey, Von
Speaker 1: miller O b J Andrew Whitworth bought it. They got
Speaker 1: it done. Now, they did have some guys that they drafted,
Speaker 1: Cooper Coup and Aaron Donald, but clearly the names that
Speaker 1: I just referenced skews towards the free agency side of things.
Speaker 1: This year's Super Bowl participants, key pieces traded grabbed in
Speaker 1: free agency, the corners for the Eagles, some of the
Speaker 1: whiteouts for Casey, which I think is a little unfair
Speaker 1: because of the bargain that they got on a lot
Speaker 1: of those guys as opposed to the big stars. I
Speaker 1: mean the dudes that I mentioned for the Rams, like
Speaker 1: those guys got paid big deals. But both teams actually
Speaker 1: drafted their quarterbacks, and the Eagles and the chief but
Speaker 1: don't forget Travis Kelsey, Chris Jones, the offensive line pieces.
Speaker 1: It goes back to what we were saying, building in
Speaker 1: the trenches. Philly's offensive line in so many ways on
Speaker 1: both sides, on offensive defensive line is so important. But
Speaker 1: the old line, all five of those guys were drafted.
Speaker 1: So does one path make more sense? Because both have won,
Speaker 1: We've seen it. And by the way, the Chiefs also
Speaker 1: relied heavily undrafted guys in their secondary to put them
Speaker 1: over the top. That's what I was getting ready to say.
Speaker 1: I mean for you to be able. I'm a firm
Speaker 1: believer in relying on the draft. I do. I think
Speaker 1: oftentimes in free agency you're gonna overpay for guys just
Speaker 1: because of the nature of win free agency starts. You
Speaker 1: know what I mean is before the draft, it incentivized
Speaker 1: as teams that have cap space to go out there
Speaker 1: and get the free agent. And oftentimes that free agent
Speaker 1: has been coached by somebody different. They have different ways
Speaker 1: of how they see success, and so to me, you
Speaker 1: have to be wearied with free agents. They're not always
Speaker 1: the most coachable, right because they're coming over now, they
Speaker 1: have different eyes looking at them. They feel like you
Speaker 1: courted them. They get paid now. So I just think
Speaker 1: sometimes you have to be wearied that way. But you
Speaker 1: have to have a staff that can develop. I mean,
Speaker 1: you really do. I mean you just talking about the
Speaker 1: Philadelphi Eagles that offensive line. I mean there were years
Speaker 1: where I'm like, Okay, you know, you know they heard
Speaker 1: Jason Peters. I don't know what's gonna happen with him.
Speaker 1: Then they get this kid that used to play rugby,
Speaker 1: and I remember telling my brother he's a Philadelphia Eagles
Speaker 1: fan when they got Jordan my Lotta, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I think this dude's gonna make the team. I guarantee
Speaker 1: you one day he's gonna be their starting left hand. Now,
Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, he's gonna be
Speaker 1: offered the more money than he's ever seen before, and
Speaker 1: in the terms of the business of the National Football League,
Speaker 1: that's gonna feel, you know, cheap. And they developed him
Speaker 1: from in house. I always look at guys that you
Speaker 1: draft and developed from in house. It's almost like I
Speaker 1: don't know the team that drafted you. They kind of
Speaker 1: have an end right, Like you know, they drafted you,
Speaker 1: they gave you a chance. You're all set up. Oftentimes,
Speaker 1: you set up family, kids, got school and all of
Speaker 1: it's hard to leave those situations. So yeah, I'm a
Speaker 1: friend believer in building through the draft. Okay, so I
Speaker 1: mentioned the Eagles, who, by the way, also dipped into
Speaker 1: free agency. I think there was a nice little blend
Speaker 1: of drafted guys and free agent guys on last year's
Speaker 1: Super Bowl team. But I want to go back to
Speaker 1: twenty twenty. Once you pay the quarterback though, Yams, you know,
Speaker 1: give me a problem because you get the feeling now
Speaker 1: they're letting people go, what are you supposed to get
Speaker 1: I mean, not getting ready to play the quarterback? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think it's the same thing with the Chargers,
Speaker 1: right justin Herbert and by the way, all the same
Speaker 1: class right to ah, well, we'll go Burrow Herbert to
Speaker 1: A and Jordan Love in that class on the first round.
Speaker 1: Jalen Hurts was a second round pick. But the point
Speaker 1: is all these dudes now in line for mega deals
Speaker 1: and that is going to affect your cap situation in
Speaker 1: such a big way. Circling back though, on the wide
Speaker 1: receiver spot, I want to ask you this question because
Speaker 1: Eagles back in twenty twenty they got Jellen Riger over
Speaker 1: Justin Jefferson when obviously the Vikings went and drafted. I
Speaker 1: don't want to pick on anyone, and I feel like
Speaker 1: I did that obviously with that comment, and I'm doing it.
Speaker 1: I did it earlier in the podcast talking about some
Speaker 1: of the Jets quarterbacks. Explain to me, though, how the
Speaker 1: evaluation process is so different, right, Like you can have
Speaker 1: a guy plays the same spot on your draft board
Speaker 1: and yet what it all plays out, the production is
Speaker 1: in this case historically dramatically different between those guys. And
Speaker 1: this may not be a direct correlation or a great example,
Speaker 1: but I mean it's the reason why we have different wives, bro,
Speaker 1: you know, different folks. The subjective, man, it is what
Speaker 1: it is, bro. You know, I love your analogies and
Speaker 1: I love working off of them. I'm going to let
Speaker 1: it go on that one, man, But it for real.
Speaker 1: It is and like the usually use the ice criminalogy,
Speaker 1: like some guys like chocolate, some guys like vanilla. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm a squirrel guy in the count like a little
Speaker 1: bit of everything. But but no, I get it, you know,
Speaker 1: I actually I do like Rocky girl. But the point
Speaker 1: is like different flavors for different different flavors, and it's
Speaker 1: the same thing. We're building a team, man. You know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of different paths to get to the mountaintop,
Speaker 1: and you have to understand what the direction your organization
Speaker 1: is trying to go in to even be able to
Speaker 1: have an opinion on whether a certain pick is the
Speaker 1: right thing for a team or not. So again, it's
Speaker 1: different structure, different folks. Man, Now it beauties and now
Speaker 1: the behold. It also goes back to the start of
Speaker 1: this show on maybe why you should be drafting the
Speaker 1: quarterback every every year. I mean again, if you got
Speaker 1: your dude, it comes up and then you look at
Speaker 1: some of these guys, man, they quarterbacks. Man, I know
Speaker 1: I used speak quarterback. I'm not going to talk too
Speaker 1: much bad about them. But I will say this, man,
Speaker 1: they be getting hurt and they get all that money
Speaker 1: and they get hurt and then you got to bring
Speaker 1: in another quarterback who you know, whatever, whatever, and the
Speaker 1: rest of the teams like, look, bro, but I didn't
Speaker 1: get hurt, and I'm effected about it. You know what,
Speaker 1: Just pay these quarterbacks. Get one every single time that
Speaker 1: you get a chance. Favorite flavor of ice cream for
Speaker 1: m Rob is I'm not a huge ice cream eater.
Speaker 1: I'm not huge. Don't let me go in. I'm talking
Speaker 1: to the person delicious dessert. You're not going down. Let
Speaker 1: me go into all of it. But I know I'm
Speaker 1: not a huge ice cream eater, so no, I can't.
Speaker 1: I don't really have a flavor. Yeah, for those who
Speaker 1: don't know m Rob's diet, there's you know, frequent fasting
Speaker 1: and yes, he's a healthy character. I try. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: the point is, I don't know what the point is
Speaker 1: on the dessert. But oh, different strokes are different folks
Speaker 1: in the whole. Again, let's circle back. We'll bring it
Speaker 1: back to the NFL Draft, which, by the way, is
Speaker 1: coming up NFL Network, NFL Plus Thursday, April twenty seventh
Speaker 1: from Kansas City. Cannot wait for it. We'll find out
Speaker 1: who mister irrelevant is going to be. We'll finally get
Speaker 1: closer to finding out how some of this drama at
Speaker 1: the top of the draft is going to shake out.
Speaker 1: Kind of a cool class. I'm hoping we get five
Speaker 1: quarterbacks taken in the first round. I want to help
Speaker 1: her to get to talk about you. Man. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: give us a stuff to talk about for the next
Speaker 1: few month. Man, let's go. And otherwise I'm relying on
Speaker 1: Brian Baldinger to give me his take on all these
Speaker 1: big fellaws up front and the offensive lineman and the
Speaker 1: human eclipse that some of these guys actually are. And
Speaker 1: I'm always going to be with you, and I'm bringing
Speaker 1: ice cream next time we do one of these shows.
Speaker 1: Appreciate you guys listening.