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Speaker 1: Hi, guys, and welcome to a new episode of Couch

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Speaker 1: Talks on You Need Therapy Podcast. My name is Kat.

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Speaker 1: I am your host, and I'm so glad that you

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Speaker 1: are here. If you don't know what couch Talks is,

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Speaker 1: it is the bonus episode of You Need Therapy where

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Speaker 1: I answer questions that you guys send into me and

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Speaker 1: you can send them to Catherine k A t h

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Speaker 1: r y n at You Need Therapy podcast dot com.

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Speaker 1: And just so you know, to keep things feeling safe

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Speaker 1: and to help if you're like, oh, I want to

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Speaker 1: send something in but I don't know, I keep everything anonymous,

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Speaker 1: so I will never read your name, even if you

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Speaker 1: don't care, I won't read your name. And sometimes I

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Speaker 1: even change details or or little things that wouldn't change

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Speaker 1: the context completely of of the email, just to make

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Speaker 1: sure that everybody feels safe and able to share what

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Speaker 1: they need to share. Now, with that, I want to

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Speaker 1: remind you guys that although I am a therapist and

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Speaker 1: I'm answering your questions, this podcast does not serve as

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Speaker 1: a replacement for therapy or substitute for therapy. My hope

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Speaker 1: is that it is a way that kind of gets

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Speaker 1: your toe in the door. I would hope for a

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Speaker 1: foot in the door, but I'll take a toe into

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Speaker 1: the door of therapy. So either you can start therapy

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Speaker 1: yourself if you have the resources for that, or maybe

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Speaker 1: you get a little nudge of something that you want

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Speaker 1: to bring up in therapy that comes up while you're

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Speaker 1: listening to one of these episodes. So if you have

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Speaker 1: a question, feel free to email me and then maybe

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Speaker 1: one day it will show up on a couch talk.

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Speaker 1: So the question that I'm gonna answer today I'm especially

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Speaker 1: excited about because it is in the definite realm of

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Speaker 1: my expertise and what I specialize in. So I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: go ahead and read it, and then we're going to

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Speaker 1: get into all of it and we'll go from there.

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Speaker 1: So here is the email. I have a question about

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Speaker 1: exercise addiction. I've worked out all my life, played sports

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Speaker 1: in college, and continue to enjoy exercise and movement into

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Speaker 1: my adulthood. However, this has definitely tipped over into over exercise,

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Speaker 1: which is and was a big part of an eating disorder.

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Speaker 1: I continue to challenge daily, what are your thoughts on

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Speaker 1: exercise during recovery? If your intentions are pure and you

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Speaker 1: truly love to move. Can it be done in a

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Speaker 1: balanced way during recovery or is a time of abstinence

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Speaker 1: the golden standard or quickest way to achieve recovery. Given

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Speaker 1: exercise is a healthy thing to do, it's hard to

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Speaker 1: imagine totally giving it up as opposed to other addictions

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Speaker 1: like alcohol or subdence abuse. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so we already know that I love this question and

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Speaker 1: I love talking about this. So I'm going to try

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Speaker 1: to answer this as succinctly as I can so the

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Speaker 1: actual meat of what I want to say can permeate

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Speaker 1: through your brain all else brains out there. So there's

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Speaker 1: actually an episode I did about a year ago on

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Speaker 1: exercise and exercise addiction and how to know when you're

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Speaker 1: taking it too far. I'm going to link that in

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Speaker 1: this episode show Notes, just for a quick link that

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Speaker 1: you guys can go click and listen to it. So

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Speaker 1: you have to search for it, because if you're new

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Speaker 1: or newer to the show, or maybe you're not you

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Speaker 1: just didn't listen to the episode, you might want to

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Speaker 1: listen to that to kind of figure out what even

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Speaker 1: is exercise addiction, Like how can you actually be addicted

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Speaker 1: to exercise. Exercise is good for you, and how can

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Speaker 1: anybody or why should anybody stop doing that? And and

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Speaker 1: everything that goes into that, because it is a thing

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Speaker 1: that isn't so mainstream, Like we know what alcoholism is,

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Speaker 1: and like I think a lot of us know that

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Speaker 1: eating disorders exist, but when it comes to exercise, it's like,

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Speaker 1: wait a second, what And side note, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if this is still true, but back in the day,

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Speaker 1: I heard this like probably six years ago, and you

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Speaker 1: can fact check me, because I'm not sending you reliable

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Speaker 1: background info on this, but it was six years ago,

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Speaker 1: the leading process addiction for people who were finding recovery,

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Speaker 1: specifically men who are finding recovery from alcohol drugs, the

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Speaker 1: number one process addiction that they would cross over into

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Speaker 1: was exercise. And then exercise was touted as this like

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Speaker 1: super healthy thing that is so good for you, and

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Speaker 1: if they're coming from a background of doing opiates or

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Speaker 1: something like that, it's like, of course, we'd rather do this,

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Speaker 1: But it does end up causing a lot of long

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Speaker 1: term issues and it blocks you from actually being able

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Speaker 1: to heal and figure out what it is that initially

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Speaker 1: brought up that addiction in the first place. So it's

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Speaker 1: an important thing to know about if you're somebody who

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Speaker 1: does love to exercise, and if you're somebody who has

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Speaker 1: struggled with addiction or just black or and white thinking

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Speaker 1: in the past, it's something to be aware of just

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Speaker 1: to make sure that we're always like on the right

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Speaker 1: track and doing things for pure reasons. So I will

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Speaker 1: link that episode for you guys. You can go and

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Speaker 1: listen to it. And Okay, this listener is completely right.

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Speaker 1: Exercise is a healthy thing to do, and we need

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Speaker 1: movement in our lives. So the goal in recovery, whether

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Speaker 1: it's from an eating disorder or an exercise addiction or

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Speaker 1: a combination, the goal was never to never exercise again.

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Speaker 1: And what's tough, just like with eating disorders, is you

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Speaker 1: have to learn how to use your quote unquote drug

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Speaker 1: of choice responsibly, which is very, very different than addictions

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Speaker 1: like alcohol and drugs. Because it's like somebody that I

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Speaker 1: would always explain it like this. It's like somebody is

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Speaker 1: coming into my office saying, Hey, I would like you

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Speaker 1: to teach me how to use cocaine responsibly. I'm addicted

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Speaker 1: to it. I would like to use it just like

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Speaker 1: recreationally responsibly in a in a in a healthy good way,

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Speaker 1: and I would like look at them and be like, huh.

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Speaker 1: But with exercise and eating disorders, a lot of times

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Speaker 1: that's what we're doing. We are helping you sit in

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Speaker 1: the gray space rather than this all or nothing thinking

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Speaker 1: when it comes to food and movement. So I just

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Speaker 1: say that because a lot of people are like, this

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Speaker 1: is so hard, there's something wrong with me. No, this

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Speaker 1: is hard, because it's hard. Now, I'm gonna give a

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Speaker 1: disclaimer up top that if you are struggling with an

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Speaker 1: eating disorder or an exercise addiction or both, what is

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Speaker 1: safe and healthy for your body movement wise can vary

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Speaker 1: case by case. I definitely can't give a black and

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Speaker 1: white answer just because there's no black and whiteness in

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Speaker 1: any of this. There's no one answer for anyone. So

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Speaker 1: I want to encourage you, if it's possible and this

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Speaker 1: is something you're struggling with, to work with a dietitian

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Speaker 1: or a therapist that specializes in this. I say dietitians

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Speaker 1: specifically because they know way more about the body and

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Speaker 1: what the body needs and the inside workings of what's

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Speaker 1: going on. We don't get trained in all of that,

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Speaker 1: So a dietitian is going to really be helpful to know, like,

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Speaker 1: how is this movement impacting your body? Also what kind

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Speaker 1: of foods do you need to be eating? Also are

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Speaker 1: you eating enough to be able to engage in this

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Speaker 1: kind of exercise? Does your body need a break? Do

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Speaker 1: you need like they're going to know all that stuff.

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Speaker 1: So I just wanted to say that up top. This

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Speaker 1: question is super understandable too when when we bring in

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Speaker 1: the difference between like disordered exercise and exercise addiction. Right,

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Speaker 1: So disordered ex size might not be a full addiction,

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Speaker 1: and maybe you don't have any current issues or complications,

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Speaker 1: but you are well on your way there, right, So

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Speaker 1: should you just stop or should you keep going? For

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Speaker 1: some Taking exercise off the tables the right and the

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Speaker 1: safest thing to do. And the truth is, no one's

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Speaker 1: going to die. Nobody's going to die from not exercising

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Speaker 1: for a period of time, So nobody's going to die

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Speaker 1: from taking a break. However, I know even hearing the

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Speaker 1: words take a break, even if it's like a week,

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Speaker 1: can elicit immediate thoughts of panic in people's bodies, because,

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Speaker 1: like all of our addictions, the things that we do,

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Speaker 1: like the things we pick up, the behaviors we pick up.

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Speaker 1: They're illegitimate solutions to legitimate problems, and at one point

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Speaker 1: these solutions did work for us. And maybe if you're

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Speaker 1: still in that like disordered exercise and you haven't crossed

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Speaker 1: over into the full blown addiction, maybe there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of parts that are still really working and you don't

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Speaker 1: have that awareness that something's not working yet. However, and

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Speaker 1: all of us to find a place where exercise is healthy,

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Speaker 1: balanced and somewhat enjoyable, you need to have other options

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Speaker 1: available to help cope with your anxiety, that feeling that

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Speaker 1: pops up when I say you should maybe take a break.

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Speaker 1: There has to be other things in your toolbox there

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Speaker 1: that can help you deal with the panic, with the anxiety,

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Speaker 1: with the fear that comes up when you don't have

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Speaker 1: that one coping skill. It can't be the only option.

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Speaker 1: It's allowed to be an option, but it can't be

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Speaker 1: the only option for some You guys might just need

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Speaker 1: boundaries on the types of movement and the frequency as

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Speaker 1: you move towards a more stable recovery process. If your

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Speaker 1: body is in a place where it's safe and helpful,

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Speaker 1: then the best option might be to work on reducing

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Speaker 1: the amount in order to give space for other skills

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Speaker 1: to develop, rather than taking a full on break from that.

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Speaker 1: And that might be enough for the dependency you have

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Speaker 1: towards that thing to kind of dissipate and and dissolve.

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Speaker 1: And I also like to encourage people in this space.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's not that you need to take a full break,

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Speaker 1: or you need to take a period of not working now,

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Speaker 1: or need to reduce the amount of this exercise. Maybe

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Speaker 1: the solution for somebody could be, like, we need to

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Speaker 1: create more options in the realm of exercise, right, so

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Speaker 1: try new things. We can become addicted to one type

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Speaker 1: of movement and we become so hyper focused on it.

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Speaker 1: But the truth is our bodies like to move in

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Speaker 1: all different ways. For me, I used to only run.

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Speaker 1: It's literally all I did every day, and it was

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Speaker 1: like a lot. And yeah, running is great, but so

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Speaker 1: are other things. And there are so many other kinds

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Speaker 1: of exercise that I actually enjoy and ways to move

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Speaker 1: that helps strengthen my body inside and out that aren't

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Speaker 1: running that I didn't give myself a chance to engage

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Speaker 1: in into No, and at a certain point I was

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Speaker 1: getting so many overuse injuries because I was only running

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Speaker 1: and I wasn't doing things to help support the parts

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Speaker 1: of my body that I was working so hard when

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Speaker 1: I ran. So I think a big part of recovery

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Speaker 1: is looking at what is it that you're actually doing?

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Speaker 1: Why are you doing it? Right? So, going back to

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Speaker 1: what I talked about, a lot the why behind the what.

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Speaker 1: Why are you just running? Why are you only running?

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Speaker 1: Why is running the only option? Why if you do

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Speaker 1: this workout, you still need to run? And there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of answers for me and that, and one of

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Speaker 1: them was, well, I want to burn a lot of calories, right.

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Speaker 1: I think that's the other part of exercise addiction that

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Speaker 1: will clue you in if you're in a healthy space

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Speaker 1: or not with what you're doing. Are you worried about

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Speaker 1: the calories you will burn in your workout? Are you

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Speaker 1: worried about how the exercise will positively impact your health

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Speaker 1: and body? Because if we're only focused on calories, we're

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Speaker 1: not really aligned in recovery. Recovery is a place where

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Speaker 1: we are kind to our bodies and we do things

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Speaker 1: purely for our bodies. Like, from this pure state, if

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Speaker 1: I want to be kind to you rather than I

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Speaker 1: want to change you, I want to fix you. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna do this in spite of you. Now, when it

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Speaker 1: comes to the specific person writing this email, I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure if you are desiring permission to keep working out

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Speaker 1: or permission to take a break, or you really just

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Speaker 1: want to make sure you're doing the right thing. Regardless,

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Speaker 1: the fact is that you have some awareness that something's happening.

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Speaker 1: And that's huge, and that's very helpful. And often we

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Speaker 1: know what we need to an extent, we just don't

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Speaker 1: allow ourselves to access that part of ourselves because our

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Speaker 1: attic part starts popping up to distract us. And they

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Speaker 1: can do that with fear, with panic, with anxiety, with

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Speaker 1: false narratives, with stories. So when you sit with the question,

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Speaker 1: do I need to take a break? What's going on?

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Speaker 1: It can't? Should I still move? Do I need to

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Speaker 1: try different things? When you sit with that question, kind

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Speaker 1: of if you said with the email you sent me,

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Speaker 1: and you notice yourself leading one way or the other,

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Speaker 1: listen for that. A big, big, big, big big part

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Speaker 1: of recovery is separating our authentic self from our addiction,

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Speaker 1: so we can learn how to listen to what we

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Speaker 1: actually need and who we actually are, rather than who

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Speaker 1: are addict is and what they want and what they

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Speaker 1: want to be able to stay alive. Right, So, when

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Speaker 1: we start doing really healthy things, when we start acting

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Speaker 1: in a way that sits with our authentic self, our

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Speaker 1: attic gets pretty mad and it gets pretty loud because

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Speaker 1: it gets pretty mad, and it gets pretty desperate, and

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Speaker 1: so you'll start hearing things and you might be like, wait,

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Speaker 1: what I thought this was supposed to be better. I

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Speaker 1: thought this was supposed to go away once I started

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Speaker 1: acting this way. And eventually it will dissipate even more.

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Speaker 1: But there's this initial part where when we start really

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Speaker 1: doing the things that lead us away from our addiction,

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Speaker 1: the attic gets terrified, and so it will start doing

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Speaker 1: like anything. It starts like grappling, like it will do anything,

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Speaker 1: and we'll maybe it starts getting mean, or maybe this happens,

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Speaker 1: or maybe that happens, and I would listen to that.

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Speaker 1: Does our attic sound panicked? Okay? Well, is it panicked

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Speaker 1: because you're like walking in alignment with your authentic self

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Speaker 1: and it's afraid it's going to die? Because let them

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Speaker 1: be panicked. Then we want that part of you to

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Speaker 1: kind of trickle away, and I will say that might

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Speaker 1: require some help from a therapist, So I just want

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Speaker 1: to shout that out if that part seems especially hard,

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Speaker 1: to be able to differentiate between my attict and my

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Speaker 1: authentic self and and what it is that I I

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Speaker 1: really actually know, but I'm not letting myself know. That's

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Speaker 1: probably hard because that's a very hard thing to do,

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Speaker 1: so you really might need to sit down with a

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Speaker 1: professional to help you tease that out. So, as always,

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Speaker 1: I hope this was helpful, And again I want to

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Speaker 1: encourage you guys to listen to that episode on exercise

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Speaker 1: Addiction because I just get surprised more and more every

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Speaker 1: time I do another episode that there's some things that

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Speaker 1: are just so I'm in them all the time because

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Speaker 1: this is what I do, and I forget, like why

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Speaker 1: I even started this podcast is because this isn't the norm.

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Speaker 1: People don't know about this stuff, people don't talk about

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Speaker 1: this stuff. We aren't taught this stuff. And I do

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Speaker 1: remember when that episode came out, it was a real

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Speaker 1: eye opener for a lot of people. So if you

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Speaker 1: haven't listened to it, or you haven't listened to it

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Speaker 1: a long time, I want to encourage you to do

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Speaker 1: that and it might be helpful, maybe more helpful than

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Speaker 1: this shorter episode. So I hope you have the day

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Speaker 1: week our moment you need to have. I am doing

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Speaker 1: that because I am on vacation this week into the

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Speaker 1: beach later and I'm just excited. So I'm going to

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Speaker 1: have the moment I need to have. I hope you

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Speaker 1: guys do that as well, and I will talk to

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Speaker 1: you again on Monday. I will just say Monday's episode

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Speaker 1: I'm very excited about. I had a sex therapist on

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Speaker 1: and she will be coming back again because we did

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Speaker 1: not even get to get to a lot of the

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Speaker 1: stuff that I wanted to because she was just so

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Speaker 1: amazing to talk to and she was so gracious because

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Speaker 1: I had some technical difficulties and she was like so

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Speaker 1: kind and so helpful throughout them. So get excited for

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Speaker 1: that episode and I will talk to you on Monday. Bye, guys,