Speaker 1: Off the Record is a production of I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to another bonus episode of Off the Record.
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Jordan Runtuck. Thanks so much for listening.
Speaker 1: Our latest chapter covered David Bowie's creative renaissance in the
Speaker 1: nineties and early two thousands. It was a fascinating period
Speaker 1: for David as he turned his back on the mainstream
Speaker 1: commercial success he had earned with this nineteen three smash
Speaker 1: Let's Dance, an album that made him a mainstay on
Speaker 1: corporate music television. By veering away from the middle of
Speaker 1: the road, he freed himself of the expectations and demands
Speaker 1: of mass appeal and got back to doing what he wanted.
Speaker 1: The records that he made in this period are often overlooked,
Speaker 1: but rank among the most experimental of his career. He
Speaker 1: rejoined formative seventies collaborators like Brian Eno and Tony Visconti.
Speaker 1: Together they'd create some of the most daring music David
Speaker 1: ever made. But one crucial collaborator during this period was
Speaker 1: new to Bowie's circle. Her name is Gail Ann Dorsey
Speaker 1: and she's one of my all time bass playing idols.
Speaker 1: If you've ever heard her duet with Bowie on under Pressure,
Speaker 1: then you'll know exactly why. Born and raised in Philadelphia,
Speaker 1: Gail studied film at cal Arts before returning to her
Speaker 1: first love of music. She moved to London in the
Speaker 1: early eighties, where she pursued her dream. Over the years,
Speaker 1: she's worked with everyone from Lenny Kravitz, Gang of Four
Speaker 1: and Olivia Newton, John two Boy, George, Tears for Fears,
Speaker 1: and the Indigo Girls, not to mention her own incredible
Speaker 1: solo work. Definitely check out her debut LP called The
Speaker 1: Corporate World. Her partnership with Bowie began with a call
Speaker 1: out of the Blue something of a theme with David,
Speaker 1: it was, and he was looking for a basis to
Speaker 1: join the tour to promote one outside. David had seen
Speaker 1: Gail performing on British television seven years earlier, and he'd
Speaker 1: never forgotten her. He just had a feeling, and that
Speaker 1: feeling was right on the money. She accompanied him on
Speaker 1: every tour for the rest of his life and played
Speaker 1: on the album's Earthling Reality and most thrillingly, his secret
Speaker 1: comeback record. The next day, my conversation with Gail was
Speaker 1: a joy. I hope you enjoyed as much as I did.
Speaker 1: I just taking it all the way back to the beginning.
Speaker 1: Was there a moment when you knew music was what
Speaker 1: you wanted to do with your life or did it
Speaker 1: happen slowly? I knew it from the very beginning. I
Speaker 1: just I just innately knew it. I don't know why
Speaker 1: or how, but I knew that was when I heard music.
Speaker 1: It just made perfect sense to me. Basically from the
Speaker 1: earliest of ages I was singing or wanting an instrument.
Speaker 1: Now I knew it, and I just knew that I
Speaker 1: couldn't really conceive of doing anything else in the world
Speaker 1: like the older I got, even through like you know,
Speaker 1: my teenage years, or even before that. I just felt
Speaker 1: when I you know, when I'm a grown up, I
Speaker 1: have to play music like all the people I listened
Speaker 1: to see on TV and go to the concerts and
Speaker 1: like that. That's that's where I belong. And I don't
Speaker 1: know how I'm going to make it, but I have
Speaker 1: to because there's no I just knew there was no alternative,
Speaker 1: I really did. You grew up in Philadelphia in the
Speaker 1: early seventies, and it's hard to think of a better
Speaker 1: place for a music lever to be at that place,
Speaker 1: at that time. Absolutely absolutely. I I'm very very I'm
Speaker 1: very proud Philadelphia and and I really have a great
Speaker 1: memory of the city of my time growing up in
Speaker 1: that city. I couldn't. I just think it was such
Speaker 1: a rich musical environment at that time. When I think
Speaker 1: back on it now and just go, Wow, what an
Speaker 1: oasis that you know, just the way it was kind
Speaker 1: of permeating. And I mean music still is a integral
Speaker 1: part of culture in our life. We can't survive it.
Speaker 1: It's like it's like water and air. We need it
Speaker 1: to live, we really do. Um. But that was just
Speaker 1: the time when music was just still growing and it
Speaker 1: was just it was more kind of organic and in
Speaker 1: the sense that it wasn't so technologically driven. We were
Speaker 1: talking about technology earlier, and I think that there was
Speaker 1: something to be said for lack of finding ways to
Speaker 1: do things. So music was so innovative at that time,
Speaker 1: I think. So it was a great, great education and
Speaker 1: great exciting time for music. And you were the youngest
Speaker 1: in your family. Did your older siblings turn you on
Speaker 1: the stuff from a little before your time? I know
Speaker 1: you mentioned cream and Grand Funk Railroad, who else did
Speaker 1: they really get you into? Yeah, Well, that's where. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's they, that's where it started. I mean they they
Speaker 1: were the ones that had the record player before I
Speaker 1: got there, you know, and they had they were bringing
Speaker 1: records into the house. And everybody's playing music in the neighborhood.
Speaker 1: But in our house, it was all the hand me
Speaker 1: down albums for my sister and brothers. And my one
Speaker 1: of my older brothers, uh was was a real he
Speaker 1: you know, dabbled in music. He played conga's, he played
Speaker 1: the upright bassed for a minute, he dabbled will get
Speaker 1: to He loved music, so he he and he had
Speaker 1: a tape recorder with the little wheels on it, like
Speaker 1: the mission impossible that the tiny little cassette reels when
Speaker 1: the microphone that plugs in and you know, a little
Speaker 1: plastic microphone, and he would let me sing in it.
Speaker 1: And that was like this once that happened, that was
Speaker 1: really another's like a big episphany. It was like, oh,
Speaker 1: for sure, I've got to do this. I heard my
Speaker 1: voice come back on the machine. I was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, this is it. This is what I have
Speaker 1: to do this um But they brought a lot of
Speaker 1: different music that that was the beauty at that time,
Speaker 1: the music was very different UM's son. You know, they
Speaker 1: were listening to things from bands like Cold Blood, which
Speaker 1: were kind of these kind of white bands that were
Speaker 1: kind of so full, like like like blood, sweat and tears,
Speaker 1: you know, those type of bands, rare Earth, that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff. And then there was Earth from the Fire,
Speaker 1: of course, and then their early days they were kind
Speaker 1: of jazzy. They weren't so pop, so there was all
Speaker 1: these different, you know, elements, and then you know, I
Speaker 1: would always say, I don't know when my brother's something
Speaker 1: must have fallen off the back of a truck, Peter.
Speaker 1: They'd come home with some weird album, That's how we
Speaker 1: used to put it. I was like, where did you
Speaker 1: get that? You know, said the first drumsticks I got?
Speaker 1: My brother came hosted here here's the music. So there
Speaker 1: was like these drumsticks and I ended up beating on
Speaker 1: everything was but I was like, where did they come from?
Speaker 1: Off the back of the truck? But this is the saying,
Speaker 1: But I remember my first Partridge Family was one of
Speaker 1: those albums from off the back of a truck, which
Speaker 1: actually the TV show was on, which I was loved watching.
Speaker 1: But when I put on that first Partridge Traumiling album.
Speaker 1: It was like, Wow, the Wrecking Crew, all that that music.
Speaker 1: That was the music I really, really really loved because
Speaker 1: it was on the radio. My mother listened to a
Speaker 1: m radio all the time. It's always on in the kitchen.
Speaker 1: And they had all that music. Partridge Family, Carpenters, Um,
Speaker 1: you know, Carol King, like all the sort of early
Speaker 1: singer songwriters. So music was handed down to me and
Speaker 1: I just absorbed it all, including you know Clean. There
Speaker 1: was a Clean My brothers listened to the Depline and
Speaker 1: listened to you know, Jenny Hendrix. It was across the board.
Speaker 1: It wasn't sort of polarized into this now there's a
Speaker 1: lot of mixture stuff. What kind of impact did the
Speaker 1: band Heart have on you? Huge? Because I was at
Speaker 1: that by the time they came out in seventy five
Speaker 1: issuely Magic Man seventy five six, I had my first
Speaker 1: electric guitar and I had started a little band with
Speaker 1: a couple of boys that lived across the street based
Speaker 1: in John So we were like a grand funk trio.
Speaker 1: And I don't know why. I don't know where the
Speaker 1: grand Funk albums came from, but they were one of
Speaker 1: my favorite that in fact, that was the guitar, Mark
Speaker 1: Farner's guitar. He was one of my first guitar heroes.
Speaker 1: I was like, that guy could play guitar and nobody's business.
Speaker 1: It was so soulful and funky and just and it
Speaker 1: just was. I listened to those so I was kind
Speaker 1: of trying to imitate that. I never got never come close,
Speaker 1: but on guitar anyway. But um, you know, I had
Speaker 1: I had a band with these guys and then but
Speaker 1: you know that there weren't many role models for me,
Speaker 1: you know, certainly not in the black community anyway, black artists.
Speaker 1: What you know, there was Taste of Honey came out
Speaker 1: with Boogie Ugie. You know, it was two black women
Speaker 1: with a bass and the guitar. But it wasn't really
Speaker 1: what what I was hoping to do in the future.
Speaker 1: So all of a sudden Heart comes out and I
Speaker 1: see Nancy Wilson. She's playing a Christie but she was
Speaker 1: also playing electrics sometimes and they were rocking out like
Speaker 1: like Zeppelin, but to me in better I just I
Speaker 1: don't know, I like led Zeppelin, but they're kind of
Speaker 1: more of a macho boy band to me. And Heart
Speaker 1: and heart was a good sort of in between. They weren't.
Speaker 1: They were no pussies put it and even put it that,
Speaker 1: you know, but they weren't like you know, they had
Speaker 1: they had a female touch and it was so soul
Speaker 1: fun and Wilson to this day, to me it's the
Speaker 1: greatest female rocks and ever. But I've ever heard and
Speaker 1: put it that way. Um, So they had a huge impact.
Speaker 1: They're like my second favorite band of all time. I
Speaker 1: wore their records out all the way through the eighties
Speaker 1: and still listen to them and got to meet them
Speaker 1: and just just love them. So that was a big
Speaker 1: because it just made me feel like I could do
Speaker 1: it when I saw Nancy Wilson up there, like kick
Speaker 1: it out, you know all those great stuff, little queen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can do that. Women are allowed to do this.
Speaker 1: You know you mentioned playing guitar. How did you make
Speaker 1: the jump to basse just to get work? I think
Speaker 1: if you talk to a lot of bass players, they
Speaker 1: say the same thing that they stumbled onto the base
Speaker 1: because people needed somebody to play the bass because it
Speaker 1: wasn't really cool. It wasn't well, it wasn't as cool
Speaker 1: as it is now in terms of an instrument that people.
Speaker 1: You know, everybody played the guitar and it was about
Speaker 1: being a guitar guide or maybe a drummer. But bass
Speaker 1: was always this thing that people used to say when
Speaker 1: I remember when I was young, they were like, well,
Speaker 1: you can't I don't even know what the base is doing.
Speaker 1: I can't hear it. You know. It's like, really, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's like they perceived that it
Speaker 1: was this thing in the background that just kind of
Speaker 1: was there, like mumbling away while everything else was upfront.
Speaker 1: Because usually in a band, unless unless it was spin
Speaker 1: Lozzy or or Um with the motor head or or
Speaker 1: staying when he came along Um, which was a little
Speaker 1: later on in the game, but in the early days,
Speaker 1: it was like the bass was kind of in the background.
Speaker 1: Now and at this point in my life as being
Speaker 1: known as a bass player, in all the years I've
Speaker 1: played the bass, it is the most important. It is
Speaker 1: really the most important instrument I think in an ensemble
Speaker 1: what the base represents, whether it's coming from the guitar
Speaker 1: or the left hand or the keyboard or sins or whatever,
Speaker 1: or to whatever's assuming that role is in charge. It's
Speaker 1: in charge of like harmonically and emotionally, and just the
Speaker 1: direction of where a piece of music goes. It really changed.
Speaker 1: Once the base comes in. You might think you don't
Speaker 1: hear it, but you certainly feel, you feel, and you
Speaker 1: know when it's not there, I feel like that's like, well,
Speaker 1: that's exactly exactly. The whole earth changes. It's like a shift.
Speaker 1: It's like pretty fall, and then when it comes back,
Speaker 1: it's grounded and it's taking you in whatever the next
Speaker 1: direction is, whether it's playing the root note or some
Speaker 1: kind of substitution. If it and it, you know, if
Speaker 1: it screws up on something, you know immediately you know
Speaker 1: when you start making those mistakes on stage, you are
Speaker 1: like it was most that's that's like you know, getting
Speaker 1: an electric jolt, like oh oh dear warning, so you
Speaker 1: you know and you start it's like your biggest feet.
Speaker 1: For me still, it really is always my biggest series
Speaker 1: because I'm still not always like it. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: no Nathan East or whatever who can really just ran
Speaker 1: and we play a song from top to bottom and
Speaker 1: never not gonna hit a wrong though. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna have to figure it out first, so I usually
Speaker 1: take some time. Let's It's something very simple. What was
Speaker 1: what was your first base that you that you ever
Speaker 1: had or you ever played? You remember it was an epiphone,
Speaker 1: which I no longer have, but I have pictures of it,
Speaker 1: and I can't I don't even know. I should actually
Speaker 1: send it to someone an epiphone if they could tell
Speaker 1: me what that model is. I've never ever seen it again,
Speaker 1: but I recently when my mother passed away about ten
Speaker 1: years ago. Now, UM an old friend's interestingly enough, who
Speaker 1: had something to do with me becoming a bass player.
Speaker 1: She was the best friend of my sister. My sister
Speaker 1: was seven years older than me when I went from
Speaker 1: my So I'm going to go to the story, you're quick.
Speaker 1: But when I went from my first bass audition to
Speaker 1: get a job in a top forty band, which which
Speaker 1: was to find work, which is why I decided, I
Speaker 1: borrowed a bass, And it was from her boyfriend that
Speaker 1: I borrowed a base to go to this audition. And
Speaker 1: then I said to my mother, if I get the job,
Speaker 1: I was fifteen, I think fourteen and fifteen, So if
Speaker 1: I get the job, when you buy me a base?
Speaker 1: And she said yeah, sure, She didn't think I got
Speaker 1: the job. So I got the job in the summer,
Speaker 1: like in between school with a guy who was old,
Speaker 1: who's eighteen and nineteen at the time, who became a
Speaker 1: lifelong friend. Funny enough, and uh, and I used her
Speaker 1: boyfriend's rick and backer, and then and then after her
Speaker 1: my mother. Yeah, and then my my mother had to
Speaker 1: buy me a base, and she brought me that eple
Speaker 1: phone basse. And then my friend who uh, whose boyfriend's
Speaker 1: bass I borrowed when she came to my mother's shoe
Speaker 1: these many years later, she brought me a little stack
Speaker 1: of photographs she took of me with that epi phone
Speaker 1: base because I didn't know they existed. I don't remember.
Speaker 1: I posed like I was a rock star on the car.
Speaker 1: I think that you can see that on Facebook. You know,
Speaker 1: my little asslow and my little quarterboy pants, you know,
Speaker 1: seventies and I'm standing in the middle of the street
Speaker 1: like I'm somebody, you know with my bass or leaning
Speaker 1: on a grand arena or something or yeah, I was
Speaker 1: posing with my my epiphone days and so it was
Speaker 1: so funny how that's how she was the one that
Speaker 1: had that and it came around. But that many years later,
Speaker 1: she said, I think you're gonna want these pictures? Oh
Speaker 1: they all faded and everything. Yeah, so that my first
Speaker 1: base was an epiphone, and I when I went away
Speaker 1: to college to do screenwriting and make movies, I just
Speaker 1: gave it to something. I don't even know where it went,
Speaker 1: you know, when you're young. So okay, now I'm doing this.
Speaker 1: But not that I wanted to give up music, But
Speaker 1: I definitely had a strong interest in film. I still
Speaker 1: I still love film. I don't have a lot of
Speaker 1: time to spend on it anymore, but i'd like to.
Speaker 1: I'd like to get watch more films. But with all
Speaker 1: the streaming and everything now, it's it's too overwhelming. You know,
Speaker 1: I missed the days with okay, waiting for the next film,
Speaker 1: go to the theater, pace yourself. What brought back? What
Speaker 1: brought you back to music after going to CalArts to
Speaker 1: study screenwriting? What what made you to return after sort
Speaker 1: of it seems like you were on such a path
Speaker 1: in Philadelphia and these bands and things. What what sort
Speaker 1: of brought you back after going off to the school. Well, well,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I think I um, it was
Speaker 1: the industry of film that I discovered just through school.
Speaker 1: I mean obviously it never worked in the movies or anything, um,
Speaker 1: but it was the experience of the men in film
Speaker 1: school at that time. It completely I was like, I'm
Speaker 1: not going to survive in this business because I don't.
Speaker 1: I can't put up with that. I can't put up
Speaker 1: with being disrespected or ignore been mistreated in that way.
Speaker 1: And it was nothing sexual, but it was not. I
Speaker 1: was the only female in my freshman class in nineteen eighty.
Speaker 1: This is n eight. Um. Now it would be all
Speaker 1: a different story, I'm sure, as women all into the place,
Speaker 1: which it should have been. But at that time it
Speaker 1: wasn't that. That didn't dawn on me because I'm just
Speaker 1: this my first time away from home. On seventeen or eighteen,
Speaker 1: never been on a plane. I go from Philadelphia to
Speaker 1: Van Eys Airport and you know, a little bust picks
Speaker 1: me up and takes me to Calis. I'm in college
Speaker 1: all of a sudden. And then I go to my
Speaker 1: class and a lot of the guys because Calais was
Speaker 1: not a traditional university, but you could still get a bachelor's,
Speaker 1: you know, a degree. It didn't do math and science
Speaker 1: and all that, had like these critical studies, and then
Speaker 1: it was art five days a week. It's just all
Speaker 1: about whatever school you were in. So you know, the
Speaker 1: basic production classes which you start with in the film
Speaker 1: live action is just sort of one one semester of
Speaker 1: like this thing where you learned like the basics of
Speaker 1: the film filming itself. So you do each job boom
Speaker 1: up rate, or you learn how to load the six
Speaker 1: team liver their camera. You have your little editing suite,
Speaker 1: like you learn the basics of everything lighting and magra
Speaker 1: found just so you have to work amongst yourselves and
Speaker 1: and and a lot of the guys. Also, it wasn't
Speaker 1: structured that the people were just coming out of high school.
Speaker 1: They were some of the guys in the class had
Speaker 1: worked already on the TV station in in Puerto Rico,
Speaker 1: or somebody was from from Germany, or and they already
Speaker 1: had they were twenty or twenty five, you know, they weren't.
Speaker 1: It wasn't so it was a mixture of people in
Speaker 1: the class. And I think there was only one other
Speaker 1: black guy. I would call and um, they were they
Speaker 1: just I would I didn't know they were Like I
Speaker 1: didn't exist, Like no one would want to work with me.
Speaker 1: They wouldn't want were supposed to be on each other's
Speaker 1: film shoots. No one would hire me. I was just ignored,
Speaker 1: it was. And then I saw what they were doing,
Speaker 1: and like they were making They were going down to
Speaker 1: Hollywood and stuff and trying to make little movies, and
Speaker 1: you know, they were really ambitious. And when I saw
Speaker 1: the level of what they would do to get something
Speaker 1: done and what they would do to someone or some
Speaker 1: of what they would it's like they would sell their
Speaker 1: grandmother to the you know, it's like I thought, you
Speaker 1: know what, I was like, this is not the industry
Speaker 1: for If this is I didn't imagine it to be
Speaker 1: this way, you know, And as a kid dreaming in
Speaker 1: West Philly, and I was like, if it's gonna be
Speaker 1: like this, I have not got time for this. And
Speaker 1: I dropped out. I remember going to the Dean and tears.
Speaker 1: So they won't hire me. They won't. And then something happened,
Speaker 1: which was so funny, is that at the very end
Speaker 1: of the year when people there, some guy would shoot.
Speaker 1: One of the guys were shooting a film down in Hollywood,
Speaker 1: like not in the school grounds, but he had some
Speaker 1: friends and they were going to shoot some kind of
Speaker 1: crime scene or something and somebody flattened in Hollywood, and
Speaker 1: he knocked on my editing door, one of the directors,
Speaker 1: one of the snotty guys, you know, and he said,
Speaker 1: and he said, um, you know, um, I'm I'm shooting
Speaker 1: the stone down in the city in the weekend, and
Speaker 1: with the person who was going to do continuity basically
Speaker 1: script girl. You know that kind of job. Um has
Speaker 1: has but bailed on me and I, you know, I
Speaker 1: guess you're free. You know, they knew I was free,
Speaker 1: of course, you know. Everybody else was working on everybody
Speaker 1: else's things, and I was trying to find somebody who
Speaker 1: would work with me. So I was hanging out with
Speaker 1: the theater students and playing music in the cafe. Anyway,
Speaker 1: so I took the job. I said, yeah, I'll come
Speaker 1: and do it. And I happen to have four moons
Speaker 1: and four houses in Virgo. I'm a Scorpio, but I'm
Speaker 1: so anal. I'm very precise. I can't help it. I'm
Speaker 1: really little O c D. So I go down and
Speaker 1: I get my I know what the job is because
Speaker 1: I've studied it, and I'm like, okay, this is what
Speaker 1: you do. And you make a log from the from
Speaker 1: the film to the nag that the sound person you
Speaker 1: got a little the clappes, you gotta take the Polaros.
Speaker 1: I had my camera take pictures of the actors, make
Speaker 1: sure the cigarettes in the right hand, and you know
Speaker 1: all that ship. So I do it, and I write
Speaker 1: all my notes down. I know how to do the charts.
Speaker 1: I had the forms and everything, give it to the
Speaker 1: director at the end of the shoot, and then they
Speaker 1: go off and they edit and they use my notes
Speaker 1: so they know. They like take seven, but they like
Speaker 1: Take three. Yar that one, and they're like, et cetera.
Speaker 1: A week later, I'm flooded with people who want me
Speaker 1: to be continuity on this ship. The director knock something
Speaker 1: I do because I used to hang out in my
Speaker 1: editing room down in the sub level, we called it.
Speaker 1: They we all had those rooms with the Steinbeck wy
Speaker 1: you know, and the little film that I did make.
Speaker 1: You know, I would just sort of roll it around
Speaker 1: and around or just sit down there and smoke some
Speaker 1: weed or something. I don't know what I was doing anyway,
Speaker 1: so they know thy not on the door instead, though, um,
Speaker 1: you know, this is the best film notes, editing notes
Speaker 1: I've ever had. It's the easiest time for me to
Speaker 1: edit my filf. This is amazing, it's so it's so precise.
Speaker 1: So then I was suddenly good girl, you know for everybody,
Speaker 1: which was funny. They all liked me then, and then
Speaker 1: it's too late, because I was like, I'm out of here.
Speaker 1: Not the industry for me, not that level anyway, I
Speaker 1: don't I'm sure I would love to have a great
Speaker 1: idea and great write a good script that gets made
Speaker 1: one of these days. But that was another thing, was
Speaker 1: like screenwriting. I enjoyed writing when I was a kid,
Speaker 1: and I still like to write a bit. And I
Speaker 1: just felt like I need for me as a person
Speaker 1: and as an artist, I need more feedback. And I
Speaker 1: found film to be a lonely thing in a sense
Speaker 1: that um, you were especially especially screenwriting, because you write
Speaker 1: this piece that you're working for a year or however
Speaker 1: long or maybe shorter or longer, and then it takes
Speaker 1: it was for someone to make it. It's possible that
Speaker 1: it will take years, many years before it's made and
Speaker 1: it gets resized and it's like this, and then then
Speaker 1: it gets made and then they want to change it,
Speaker 1: and like so there's all this, I thought, I need
Speaker 1: more I can't wait that long to get some kind
Speaker 1: of affirmation of something from someone experiencing my work. You
Speaker 1: know what I mean. When you give the script away,
Speaker 1: it's as somebody else's vision too when you see it
Speaker 1: up on the screen too, so that that's got to
Speaker 1: feel I can't feel good. Well, that's what I meant.
Speaker 1: I mean. And I would love to have directed. I
Speaker 1: would like to be the double barrel, you know, the
Speaker 1: writer director kind of thing. But you know, it was
Speaker 1: I just thought I just need that that the way
Speaker 1: that what I felt of the industry that I could
Speaker 1: experience through my experience with film school at cards at
Speaker 1: that time. I'm sure it's really different now, In fact,
Speaker 1: I know it is. It was just not I just
Speaker 1: didn't want to work in it. I just couldn't exist
Speaker 1: in that way. And then of course it would be
Speaker 1: a matter of time before that that sort of it's
Speaker 1: you know, attitude towards me turns into other things, the
Speaker 1: sexual thing and all that. It's like I just couldn't
Speaker 1: deal with it. And it's been and so music I
Speaker 1: was like, I'm gonna go back and play music. And
Speaker 1: then and there was at least with music, you stand
Speaker 1: on the stage and you play, and you you get
Speaker 1: immediate you know, feedback and respond from from what you're
Speaker 1: giving and that and once that happens, I mean, that's
Speaker 1: the magic for me of life. Those are the moments
Speaker 1: I am most comfortable being in my skin as a
Speaker 1: human being on this Planet's when I can walk on
Speaker 1: the stage big or small, you know, ten people, ten
Speaker 1: million people or whatever, you know, however many and just
Speaker 1: have that connection. It's like, um, it's like my meditation.
Speaker 1: It's the only time my brain is empty of empty
Speaker 1: of all the things that are destroying me at other times,
Speaker 1: you know. So it's it's been so in that respect.
Speaker 1: This year has been really difficult. The past year has
Speaker 1: been super hard, not just for me, but a lot
Speaker 1: of my peers and I'm sure the people who want
Speaker 1: to experience what we what we can offer, what we
Speaker 1: have to offer that, I mean, it's all what we give.
Speaker 1: I feel, like music and artists in general, it is
Speaker 1: just we're we're giving the thing that's that's missing the
Speaker 1: most in the world, and that's love. You know. What
Speaker 1: we give is this sort of what I would describe
Speaker 1: as a large love, you know, like not love being
Speaker 1: in love, but just like positivity, you know, and and
Speaker 1: we need to get that back very soon. We need
Speaker 1: to get that exchange going pumped out into the world again,
Speaker 1: very very soon. But we're in big danger, you know,
Speaker 1: and not and not through a screen, and not through
Speaker 1: a screen. We can't live like this through these screens.
Speaker 1: We can't. That's going to destroy us as well, I
Speaker 1: believe eventually. So we've got to get out there and
Speaker 1: connect with the people again with music and dance and
Speaker 1: things that bring the at level of good vibration up
Speaker 1: in people's spirits. Oh my gosh, I know, it's just
Speaker 1: so fascinating me to think that. You know, when we
Speaker 1: see remnants of early human civilizations, from times when we're
Speaker 1: still just struggling to to eat and survive, you see
Speaker 1: traces of musical instruments. So clearly this is a base
Speaker 1: human need from you know, and we don't know why.
Speaker 1: I love that. I just love that, the mystery of music,
Speaker 1: like we don't know where it came from her. I know,
Speaker 1: I was saying that that was watched a little bit
Speaker 1: of the friend label with so are you feeling say
Speaker 1: that the writers But that's that's some Netflix or Hulu
Speaker 1: were one of those to I don't know which one.
Speaker 1: At the moment, she's doing a thing with Scorsese where
Speaker 1: she's just kind of ranting about New York City, which
Speaker 1: she does so brilliantly. I love her. But she says
Speaker 1: that she said a thing about music on one of
Speaker 1: the episodes, and I was just sobbing because she really
Speaker 1: hid it. She's like, there's no other art form that
Speaker 1: can touch a person and change them instantly in a
Speaker 1: matter of seconds, from one that can take you and
Speaker 1: transport you, and you don't know why. And she was
Speaker 1: and it's true, and I was just thought, oh my god,
Speaker 1: it is. It really is a special, magical thing. And
Speaker 1: I personally feel so incredibly like that's what's so weird,
Speaker 1: just like knowing as a kid that I was I
Speaker 1: needed to be a vessel for that. I don't know why,
Speaker 1: but you know, and I still feel like I'm just like,
Speaker 1: that's what. That is what I'm here to do. I
Speaker 1: don't have anything else, really, I mean, I have things
Speaker 1: to offer, but you know what I mean, that's the
Speaker 1: best I can offer. But it that way that is
Speaker 1: the best of me, is to keep allowing the gift
Speaker 1: I've been given to channel that energy into the earth
Speaker 1: and two people into the world as best I can.
Speaker 1: You know, I love that line from the frame we
Speaker 1: were with the documentary. It's it's, it's it's such a
Speaker 1: unique art form for that reason. I mean, I I
Speaker 1: learned music as a kid because I loved it, and
Speaker 1: I wanted to see if maybe if I learned how
Speaker 1: to make those sounds myself, I would understand why it
Speaker 1: made me feel that way. And it never, it never
Speaker 1: happened to me. It's just I still don't understand why
Speaker 1: I could. I put my hand here and it's an
Speaker 1: F major seventh chord and it makes me feel warm
Speaker 1: or something, and I just still don't. It's vibrational. It's vibrational.
Speaker 1: It's the best thing. And vibration is everything. It really is.
Speaker 1: It's vibration is everywhere. It's it's it's important, very important.
Speaker 1: We can't see it, but it's it's. It's it's a
Speaker 1: huge force. It's very present. Yeah, I did. I mean,
Speaker 1: just thinking about the convert urgents of different kinds of
Speaker 1: art forms. Did did studying film with with the narrative
Speaker 1: and the visual elements and the costuming and everything that entails,
Speaker 1: including music. Perhaps prepare you in some ways for for
Speaker 1: going on tour with with David Bowie, because obviously that
Speaker 1: was such a huge um element for him. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we talked about that a lot because he knew that
Speaker 1: I had gone to film school and at one point,
Speaker 1: I know he used to call me, I'm the little
Speaker 1: documentary and you know, I shot a lot of film,
Speaker 1: a lot of video stuff, but he would just allow
Speaker 1: me to kind of film a bunch of stuff sometimes.
Speaker 1: And there's one thing that he Um we were on
Speaker 1: Rosie o'donald um uh for the Earth Thing album. I
Speaker 1: think you can find it somewhere, maybe on YouTube. I
Speaker 1: don't know where. I've seen it once or twice um
Speaker 1: where she she always asked him to sing China Girl
Speaker 1: to him to her and he would never do And
Speaker 1: they were good friends. He was really good friends at
Speaker 1: Rosie o'donald him and on both and Uh. He wanted
Speaker 1: me to film a high eight because at the time
Speaker 1: it was like high eight tape video tape. He wanted
Speaker 1: me to film him singing China Girl in the chair
Speaker 1: on her talking to Rosie on the guitar. He was
Speaker 1: going to surprise her and then take the tape out
Speaker 1: of the machine and give it to her as a gift,
Speaker 1: and I do it. I'm on the screen. He and
Speaker 1: she's like wondering where I've come from, and I'm all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, I'm up on the understand, you know,
Speaker 1: filming him. And then he starts singing China Girl, and
Speaker 1: then then he's he's just give me the tape, and
Speaker 1: I give him the tape and me because it's a Rosie.
Speaker 1: But the whole film thing was, Yeah, we talked like
Speaker 1: he knew I liked films, so it was a nice
Speaker 1: subject that we had to talk about sometimes. And he um,
Speaker 1: he always you know, encouraged me to make movies and
Speaker 1: take pictures and he thought that was very cool. He
Speaker 1: liked anybody who was kind of into loads of things
Speaker 1: like that, especially I'm not an avid read. You, I'm
Speaker 1: not as big a reader as he is. He's a
Speaker 1: huge reader, but you know, like leaves school Brels for example,
Speaker 1: was on his level and with that kind of thing,
Speaker 1: and they would go on and on about books all
Speaker 1: day and have all these great references. So I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I think some school did help in someone
Speaker 1: certainly see that like being around the seat, you'ter school
Speaker 1: helped me a lot um, which was another um facet
Speaker 1: of CalArts. They have five different schools of art, so
Speaker 1: they're all kind of intertwined. But I hung around with
Speaker 1: a lot of actors and just the whole kind of
Speaker 1: stage presence thing has helped me a little bit with
Speaker 1: getting it getting irritated. But I feel like with David,
Speaker 1: he he really was another university. I mean, he was
Speaker 1: another level of me of like a mentor for for
Speaker 1: many aspects, for my visual aspects, like you know, what
Speaker 1: to wear, how to be on stage, just you know,
Speaker 1: and not even by saying much, but just by he
Speaker 1: knew I was watching, you know what I mean. He
Speaker 1: was kind of demonstrating without words in some ways, and
Speaker 1: he would guide me in more of a physical sense,
Speaker 1: not you know, like just or not in physical and
Speaker 1: kind of kind of cosmic kind of you know. He
Speaker 1: would be like like watch this, kind of like this
Speaker 1: is what this is where we're gonna go, you know,
Speaker 1: because check this out. And I was just absorbing it
Speaker 1: all like a sponge. It was really, you know, he
Speaker 1: was kind of very much another level of of of
Speaker 1: learning to be a professional and or whatever that means.
Speaker 1: I guess in that sense, you know, being be a
Speaker 1: good a performer. It's hard to think of a less
Speaker 1: inhibited artist. I mean that must have been incredible to
Speaker 1: to see and and for you to grow as well,
Speaker 1: to have that example in front of you. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I I don't you know that was and it was
Speaker 1: came out of left field, it wasn't you know. I
Speaker 1: was a Bowie fan. I would love to have been
Speaker 1: in one of his bands. But I used to think,
Speaker 1: because I think I said to my fan Louise Goffin,
Speaker 1: I was like, man, I would love to play for
Speaker 1: David Bowie or somebody like that, because to me, there's
Speaker 1: like I was saying this to another journalist the other
Speaker 1: day about David and and someone like um, what's his name,
Speaker 1: Frank Zappa or those kind of people like when you're
Speaker 1: in one of those bands, like you're like the ship
Speaker 1: Like that's like like and you know, like it's one
Speaker 1: of those bands that you you come out of this someone'
Speaker 1: was like, oh he played for or she played for
Speaker 1: so and so that's like to reach that. I used
Speaker 1: to think I would never reach that, you know, I thought, Okay,
Speaker 1: I can play with other people, I'm never going to
Speaker 1: reach that level where I'm like Steve or something. You know.
Speaker 1: It's like so that was like to be invited to
Speaker 1: that out of nowhere. It was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: what's happened. I had no idea what was happening. Um
Speaker 1: I really I was just like, I can't believe this
Speaker 1: is happening. So I, you know, I dropped everything I
Speaker 1: was doing and went for it. And it was the
Speaker 1: best decision I've ever made, I guess into certainly in
Speaker 1: terms of my career so far. And it really was
Speaker 1: out of the blue. It was just it was a
Speaker 1: phone call, a phone call out of the boo. He
Speaker 1: said he saw me on a television show in the
Speaker 1: late eighties. He can call me till But knowing him,
Speaker 1: I know why he won't forget his photographic memory, even
Speaker 1: with all those drugs and alcohol. He can remember absolutely everything.
Speaker 1: I can't remember last week. That's crazy. It's like, you know,
Speaker 1: and he could remember every little detail. So if something
Speaker 1: spoked him, it's something he liked, he won't He's not
Speaker 1: going to forget it or something he thinks he can
Speaker 1: use later on. Because that's what I was. He said,
Speaker 1: I saw you on a TV show. Uh. He was
Speaker 1: in London, slipping channels and I came on Thank God
Speaker 1: Wow stopped on a music program and I was on
Speaker 1: a music pre program. With my first album on a
Speaker 1: major label. I was on Warner Brothers on w e
Speaker 1: A in the UK and Fire in the US UM
Speaker 1: and I did the Corporate World and I was doing
Speaker 1: all the TV shows in London for the to promote
Speaker 1: the album, and I was on He said, you you
Speaker 1: spoke to the post and then you went and you
Speaker 1: played a song with ther band or on my own.
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's a lot of times it was
Speaker 1: just me and my guitarist and then I'd go and
Speaker 1: he said, I just thought that woman is really interesting.
Speaker 1: When I'm doing the right project, I would love to
Speaker 1: work with her. That was what he said. He thought
Speaker 1: to himself in nineteen. It had to have been eighty nine,
Speaker 1: no later than ninety, because I was already like left
Speaker 1: and going to Ireland and taking a year off, and
Speaker 1: so it would have been then. And then he calls
Speaker 1: me for the outside tour. Why he would have thought
Speaker 1: that was the right time, I have no idea, but
Speaker 1: not only was the right time. I managed to work
Speaker 1: there until until two thousand thirteen or whatever, until the
Speaker 1: next day. I stayed, I've remained the base fire. How amazing.
Speaker 1: How did David in the flesh compared to the the
Speaker 1: image you must have had of him in your head beforehand? Um,
Speaker 1: that's an interesting question. Well much more, Um, I guess
Speaker 1: a lot of people might say this about well maybe
Speaker 1: I don't know what they said about it. Artists, to
Speaker 1: be honest in that way, much more normal, you know,
Speaker 1: I imagine, would be a bit more freaky. But also
Speaker 1: I think I feel like I got him at a
Speaker 1: particular age where he wasn't going to be like a
Speaker 1: total freak, Like he wouldn't a you know, like like
Speaker 1: you imagine he was when he's the thin, white duke
Speaker 1: and ziggy, you know, with all the skinny and the
Speaker 1: pale face and the hair and the lipstick or whatever,
Speaker 1: you don't. I knew he wasn't gonna be like that
Speaker 1: every day, whereas I have to say, I wouldn't know
Speaker 1: that about Prince. I don't never work for Prince, but
Speaker 1: I imagine he might look like he looks every day.
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, But David was like just
Speaker 1: a normal guy. Really, he was a normal British guy.
Speaker 1: Attractive man, but especially when I first started working with him.
Speaker 1: He was um. He had a lot of energy. He
Speaker 1: always did have energy, didn't didn't wane until the very
Speaker 1: didn't wayne ever, but he was more. He was um.
Speaker 1: I think I marveled at his um uh maybe not
Speaker 1: his physical energy I'm speaking of, but he I marveled
Speaker 1: at his his ability to be just thinking of new
Speaker 1: ideas like everything, Like all the time he was on
Speaker 1: his his whole brain was on autopilot all the time,
Speaker 1: just with all these great ideas. Everything he saw, he
Speaker 1: saw it. He saw a million possibilities in it. You
Speaker 1: see it in his eyes. You know. He would look
Speaker 1: at one thing and you'd know that five thousand things
Speaker 1: that flashed through his mind what he could do with
Speaker 1: that thing, you know, And then he turned his head
Speaker 1: over that way and you could just see it. He
Speaker 1: had this uncanny That was something that was amazing about
Speaker 1: him in the flash. But I couldn't have know. You
Speaker 1: couldn't know from watching on a maybe a little bit,
Speaker 1: but you know, seeing him on the Chat show or something,
Speaker 1: or on stage. I was lucky enough to speak to
Speaker 1: to one of his producers, Ken Scott, who worked with
Speaker 1: him on Ziggy Start Us on the Laddin saying, and
Speaker 1: he mentioned how Bowie was just so incredibly gifted at
Speaker 1: putting groups together and getting this sort of creative alchemy
Speaker 1: where he could choose just the right people. That's it.
Speaker 1: That was his greatest gift. And it's an under it,
Speaker 1: like people don't even realize how important that gift is.
Speaker 1: That is his greatest gift. That's what makes it even
Speaker 1: more amazing to be chosen as one of the colors
Speaker 1: on his palate. Mm hm. You know, it's like because
Speaker 1: it's he is, he knows exactly how to put the
Speaker 1: right nature together and that has been his gifts from
Speaker 1: day one. Because it's not if you you know, he's
Speaker 1: not he's the most amazing frontman in the world, but
Speaker 1: he's not. Um. You know, it's not like he's a
Speaker 1: musical virtuoso or you know, he's an incredible songwriter. That's
Speaker 1: that's what iut question. Um. But it's like as a
Speaker 1: as a sort of instrumentalist or whatever, that's you know,
Speaker 1: he's to me, it's it's the voice, which you can't
Speaker 1: you know, deny. To me, he's one of the greatest
Speaker 1: things I've ever heard. Um. Right up there was like
Speaker 1: Sinatra somebody but an incredible singing. Uh. But um, you know,
Speaker 1: he put together the right things around him to always
Speaker 1: elevate his idea of what he wanted to put some
Speaker 1: five for himself. And that is really difficult. People. You
Speaker 1: can't imagine how difficult that that can be. Um, you
Speaker 1: know for a lot of artists, and you've you've toured
Speaker 1: with with Lenny Kravitz, and I know he was very
Speaker 1: particular about your bass sound, saying, okay, I want a
Speaker 1: vintage p bass to give it that that funk attitude
Speaker 1: was David. That's specific about what he wanted musically or
Speaker 1: did he he leave did he leave you to it
Speaker 1: to do what you do best? Not at all. I
Speaker 1: never be even mentioned. He never ever said a single
Speaker 1: word And I don't know fifteen years or whatever how
Speaker 1: many years about what instrument I was playing or not playing. Never,
Speaker 1: not once, as long as you, as long as you,
Speaker 1: as long as you played what he wanted to do,
Speaker 1: as long as he was enjoying singing. And it wasn't
Speaker 1: even like he was listening, you know, unlike Lenny would
Speaker 1: be or some other arts, not just many would be
Speaker 1: listening to what you're playing, Like what everybody's playing to
Speaker 1: go oh no, no that but John d does not right. Well,
Speaker 1: you don't play that a little bit too hard? Or
Speaker 1: or can you um, you know, can you know do
Speaker 1: a fill there? Or can you do a fill there?
Speaker 1: Or you know like that like some people are listening
Speaker 1: to all of those elements, you know, all the guitars.
Speaker 1: You know too strummy, you should do it more with
Speaker 1: the pick. So he he would come in and listen
Speaker 1: and sing. And if you didn't feel good, like you
Speaker 1: could tell if you were doing as an ensemble, if
Speaker 1: you were doing the right thing, because you would see
Speaker 1: him smiling and enjoying himself singing. And if he and
Speaker 1: if he wasn't enjoying smiling and enjoying himself singing, you
Speaker 1: knew you you weren't quite doing the right thing. And
Speaker 1: he wouldn't tell you what the right thing was. You
Speaker 1: would just find it. But after a while you know
Speaker 1: exactly what he's going to enjoy. You just learn. You
Speaker 1: learn it, and because you know what you would like
Speaker 1: you you you you you discover, like he chooses all
Speaker 1: these different people and amongst each other, you discover the
Speaker 1: beauty that you you discover your own beauty that you
Speaker 1: make with these people as a band, not just with
Speaker 1: him singing, but just what what you do musically, So
Speaker 1: you're learning that as well, like you're learning how to
Speaker 1: fit into this configuration that he's made. And and then
Speaker 1: when you start seeing how beautiful it is or what blossoms,
Speaker 1: and you don't even and again you don't know why
Speaker 1: even I've never played with earl stick or I might
Speaker 1: have never played with during or I never you know,
Speaker 1: heard of you know so and so over. I walk
Speaker 1: in and I'm and I'm like, wow, this sounds incredible.
Speaker 1: How is that possible? And easily too, not so difficultly,
Speaker 1: like everybody seems to know, and what it is is
Speaker 1: that everybody is just doing what they do. So then
Speaker 1: it goes back to his choice, like no one's trying
Speaker 1: to do anything except do the best thing they can
Speaker 1: do because they're in David Bowie's freaking bands. So you're
Speaker 1: doing whatever you can do. You're doing at the height
Speaker 1: of yours like you are, like what on hyper drive
Speaker 1: to do the best you can do at what you
Speaker 1: do because you don't because he's not telling you what
Speaker 1: he wants Jane saying, he's not telling you, He's telling
Speaker 1: you what song to play, and he might say, I
Speaker 1: don't want to do it like we used to do it.
Speaker 1: I don't want to do it like the record, like
Speaker 1: maybe change the beat or something. And he will let
Speaker 1: you figure out what you might how you might interpret it.
Speaker 1: Especially on the first tour when he wasn't doing the hits,
Speaker 1: he wanted to do things that would do. And if
Speaker 1: he did the hits, like Man who Saw the World,
Speaker 1: he want to do a drum and bass version. Won't
Speaker 1: you better figure it out? And he wants you know,
Speaker 1: um not not all the time. Sometimes in the beginning. Yeah,
Speaker 1: in the beginning, I was terrified. In the beginning, I
Speaker 1: was terrified. But then I learned to trust that he
Speaker 1: trusted me. He believed in me more than I believed
Speaker 1: in myself. I don't know how other the other musicians felt,
Speaker 1: but I know that he did, and he really pushed
Speaker 1: me sometimes and and then he then I surprised myself.
Speaker 1: I will be forever indebted to him of that. I
Speaker 1: am so grateful to him for that. This is the
Speaker 1: greatest thing, the greatest gift you could give to another
Speaker 1: musician or an artist. You know, he always said, you know,
Speaker 1: like you've seen it and introduced maybe like stay out
Speaker 1: of you. When you're out of your comfort zone, you're
Speaker 1: in the right spot the moment, the moment you're comfortable,
Speaker 1: you're you know you, Vince will not even be bothering
Speaker 1: And and he was a living proof of that. He
Speaker 1: always stretched himself like each time it was some news,
Speaker 1: like he was going out on a limb. And he
Speaker 1: loved it. He loved the vibe. It was like a
Speaker 1: roller coaster for him. And he was laughing all the
Speaker 1: way people might have been like people might have been
Speaker 1: criticizing or whatever. He didn't give a ship he was having.
Speaker 1: He wanted to enjoy what he was doing. He and
Speaker 1: he made sure that happened and then and he brought
Speaker 1: that joy to all of us. And I'm an incredible job,
Speaker 1: incredible experience in my life. Priceless. I mean, for me,
Speaker 1: the best example of of getting out of you, of
Speaker 1: your comfort zone. Personally, I love your version of under pressure,
Speaker 1: especially the one at Glastonbury. It's in in two thousand.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Can you tell me how that came together? No, Queen,
Speaker 1: were you mentioned Heartbeating your second favorite band? Queen? Were
Speaker 1: your number one? Are your number one? Right? That's right still, Yeah,
Speaker 1: then that was that was freaky. I mean, I just
Speaker 1: that I never even imagined because I just thought we
Speaker 1: would never do that song when I got you know,
Speaker 1: it never occurred to me when I got the job
Speaker 1: with Bollie that we would even never do that song
Speaker 1: because I thought we would never do under pressure because
Speaker 1: Freddie Mercy is dead and he would he does some
Speaker 1: sing with other you know who was going to do
Speaker 1: that song with him in the show because we didn't
Speaker 1: ever we didn't have singers like that, you know, in
Speaker 1: the show. And then sure enough, like coming through the
Speaker 1: early weeks, I was still on the nine inch nails too.
Speaker 1: I remember that because we started doing it way back
Speaker 1: early in the early day. Um. I remember him coming
Speaker 1: into my dressing room. Um, I think was before a
Speaker 1: show would have been and he came in and he
Speaker 1: had a cassette tape of um, the version he did
Speaker 1: with Any Lennox a Saidie's memorial concident when the stadium,
Speaker 1: and which was stunning. I have a photograph of them
Speaker 1: on my wong like little Visiom Studio. I just love
Speaker 1: that was such a special moment and I love Anie
Speaker 1: Lennox too. UM, And I didn't know him yet and
Speaker 1: he gave me. He said to me, do you if
Speaker 1: I remembered that time? And I said, of course I do.
Speaker 1: And he said, well, I was thinking about doing that
Speaker 1: song in the show, like you know, like I did.
Speaker 1: It was Annie, and I said, well, who who's gonna
Speaker 1: Who's gonna play? So he was like, would you think
Speaker 1: about singing it? And I said, well, yeah, my goodness,
Speaker 1: but I said who was going to play the bass?
Speaker 1: Because I didn't. I thought we'd do it like any
Speaker 1: Lenox as well. And and you know, I would actually
Speaker 1: perform it with him, you know, in his arms or
Speaker 1: whatever however they did it, or I would be performing
Speaker 1: it and somebody else would be playing the bass. And
Speaker 1: he said, no, you're going to play the bass. I said,
Speaker 1: I'm singing at the same time, you know. And then
Speaker 1: he looked for me and he just put a very
Speaker 1: cheeky look and he just went, I'll give you two
Speaker 1: weeks and he put the cassette. They put the cassette down,
Speaker 1: and he walked out of the room. No pressure, No pressure,
Speaker 1: talk about under pressure. So I just drilled it for
Speaker 1: two weeks until I figured it out. They'll see, that's
Speaker 1: the perfect example. It was the biggest and most important example.
Speaker 1: It was like the earliest exam I passed. It was
Speaker 1: like exam number one. If you get through this one,
Speaker 1: you know you're you're good for good ten years. So
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, I got the hardest
Speaker 1: s a T in the first round. Whatever. So so
Speaker 1: he gave me that job, and I went to my
Speaker 1: hotel room every day and I put him in my
Speaker 1: cassette player and whatever I had, and I studied it
Speaker 1: and put a metro him down, and they did it slow,
Speaker 1: and I did it fast and until I figured it out,
Speaker 1: and he asked me one day, you think you're ready
Speaker 1: to try it and sound check, and I was like, yep,
Speaker 1: let's go, let's do it. Let's try it. You know
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't put it already longer. And the
Speaker 1: rest of history changed my life doing that. So and
Speaker 1: then the association with Freddy, because I used to ask him,
Speaker 1: I know, they were friends, and I used to ask
Speaker 1: him to police tell me stories about Freddy. And the
Speaker 1: only one he would tell me is that he was like,
Speaker 1: he was very fine, and he was said he said,
Speaker 1: you would have loved him, and he said you. He
Speaker 1: said you every time you turn up at his house.
Speaker 1: He would always open the door and he'd be in
Speaker 1: full drag and he'd have opera blaring out really by
Speaker 1: all around. And it's funny when he said that. When
Speaker 1: I saw the film, I was like this, just like
Speaker 1: David said. He said, he turned out and to say hi,
Speaker 1: you know, to hang out with Freddy. He opened the
Speaker 1: front door and he's just like a woman in the
Speaker 1: The opera is so loud that it takes your head off.
Speaker 1: That's everything I ever wanted to be. I'm I'm so
Speaker 1: glad that that is true. M h yeah, And so
Speaker 1: I was, And I told him how much I love Freddie.
Speaker 1: So he was like, Freddie would be really proud when
Speaker 1: he told me Freddie. I mean, everybody tells me Freddie
Speaker 1: would be proud. And really, that is the only thing
Speaker 1: I was the most important thing I wanted to do.
Speaker 1: I obviously didn't want to like suck in front of David,
Speaker 1: but I did not one of that Freddie's legacy down,
Speaker 1: because that was the good. He really was the greatest
Speaker 1: performer I've ever seen in my life to this day,
Speaker 1: that the whole band in their original form in the
Speaker 1: late seventies, early eighties. I've never seen anything like it
Speaker 1: out of four human beings ever. That music drives me mad.
Speaker 1: It's so incredible and the power and the force that
Speaker 1: came from those four guys was just unimaginable. What were
Speaker 1: sessions like for for the next day, because I know
Speaker 1: not only were they top secret, but you were in
Speaker 1: the midst of dates with I think Lenny Kravitz and
Speaker 1: Olivia Newton John. What was that experience was? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: was busy. Well, it was hard initially, you know, I was.
Speaker 1: I just went in to do the early tracks, the
Speaker 1: bass tracks. Yes, it was a secret. Um he caught again.
Speaker 1: There was a long period of time after the Reality tour,
Speaker 1: of course, where he had his health issues and he
Speaker 1: just went home to be be home and get healthy
Speaker 1: and be with his family. I know he was really
Speaker 1: missing his daughter was really little then he was missing her.
Speaker 1: I could tell because it was all you know, just
Speaker 1: skyping every day or whatever. It's not the same as
Speaker 1: we know so so as we've come to know and
Speaker 1: he um so, you know, I kept in touch with
Speaker 1: him a little bit regularly by email, just you know,
Speaker 1: he asked, asked without seen the movie. I remember we
Speaker 1: we emailed when m Alexander McQueen left us and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. So because he'd done a lot of our
Speaker 1: clothes in the nineties. Um, So he called me again
Speaker 1: out of the blue. I think it was like in
Speaker 1: two thousand nine or ten, because yeah, I was in
Speaker 1: two thousand ten, two dozens and maybe two dozen eleven
Speaker 1: either and I was really busy. Um. But he was like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do this album. You know, what are you
Speaker 1: up to? Like, so I thought, okay, he's been thinking
Speaker 1: of something. I didn't look. I never knew he was
Speaker 1: going to come back, you know, I never know. I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean he was. I knew he'd do something, but
Speaker 1: I didn't know what because I know he couldn't stop
Speaker 1: that that automatic thing that was going and there's no
Speaker 1: way in the world that's gonna stop. No way. Um.
Speaker 1: So he just asked me. He told me what it was,
Speaker 1: just explained the project again because he's very good, Like
Speaker 1: like he called me with the first tour, He explained
Speaker 1: what it was, who was with, he was in the band,
Speaker 1: how it was gonna you know, he gives me the details.
Speaker 1: So he did the same with this. It's gonna be quiet,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be like, um secret. If you don't think
Speaker 1: you can handle that, then let me know. Um. He
Speaker 1: he was looking for a place, he's looking for the
Speaker 1: right studio because you know, he didn't want to so
Speaker 1: he didn't want it to be leaked no matter what.
Speaker 1: And his reasoning for that was because he was fed
Speaker 1: up with the Internet, which we all are now being
Speaker 1: being u being um, this place where you can't do
Speaker 1: anything in privacy anymore in terms of especially in terms
Speaker 1: of releasing music, because at that time there was eason
Speaker 1: more pirrating and stuff like there seemed to be if
Speaker 1: I recall a little bit more of I think, you know,
Speaker 1: somebody was doing a record and suddenly it got out,
Speaker 1: and then it once it's out, it's out. You can't
Speaker 1: release it and sell it because it's out, and it
Speaker 1: spreads around like wildfire, you know, instantly, it's just out.
Speaker 1: And and people were losing songs apparently. Um. Like you know,
Speaker 1: people that worked in a studio I guess would get
Speaker 1: a fun you know, a zip drive or whatever. They
Speaker 1: get a file or some nail or where I don't
Speaker 1: know whatever, and they would leak it. You know, it
Speaker 1: could be a tape off or I don't know, I
Speaker 1: don't use tape, but I don't know what you call
Speaker 1: them now, um you know, computer up, um stealing, so
Speaker 1: you know, who knows, But things would get out. So
Speaker 1: he said, I don't want people to get this music
Speaker 1: until like like in the old days, you go and
Speaker 1: make a record, nobody you know, knows you in the
Speaker 1: studio really making a record unless you want to talk
Speaker 1: about it. And but most artists and the seventies and
Speaker 1: stuff didn't. They just do the album and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden there was like there's vad new single by
Speaker 1: the Eagles, you know, and then it's out, you know,
Speaker 1: and you weren't wondering what the Eagles were doing or
Speaker 1: with you know what I mean. So he wanted he
Speaker 1: wanted to recreate he want He just didn't want any
Speaker 1: preconceived especially because he had taken a long time and
Speaker 1: he had been sick beforehand, and he wasn't going to
Speaker 1: talk about that like he wasn't. He didn't come out
Speaker 1: of his whatever his medical thing was and do a
Speaker 1: whole press thing and do a reality show or whatever.
Speaker 1: You know, he didn't do all that. He wasn't into
Speaker 1: all that. So he was into his privacy and he
Speaker 1: wanted the record, the music to be received in that way.
Speaker 1: He didn't want people to. If they knew he was
Speaker 1: making a record, they would already start writing about it.
Speaker 1: Somebody would have an opinion about what kind of record
Speaker 1: it was. Someone would say what they think he should do.
Speaker 1: Someone would say what they think he shouldn't do. Someone
Speaker 1: would have you know, you know what I mean. It's
Speaker 1: like and everybody be talking about this record and waiting
Speaker 1: for this record, and then they'd be waiting for him
Speaker 1: to leak a little bit of the record, and then
Speaker 1: they'd be people at this studio, and then they would
Speaker 1: be asking people, are you on the record? They'd probably
Speaker 1: be calling me, you know, because all these things would
Speaker 1: have happened, and he was right, they wouldn't and he
Speaker 1: didn't want it, and that was the reason. And he
Speaker 1: was adamant about it, and he uh and so he
Speaker 1: if you weren't on board, and I think we did
Speaker 1: have to sign something because if we if we leaked
Speaker 1: it out, we were screwed. It was big and I
Speaker 1: appreciated it because I'm like him. I like my privacy.
Speaker 1: I'm having a really hard time in the world right
Speaker 1: now without it. But because it's taking I feel like
Speaker 1: it's being taken away in every aspect of my life
Speaker 1: in so many ways. So I get it, you know,
Speaker 1: it's difficult. And he praised that if more than anything
Speaker 1: he wanted he wanted to just be normal in that way,
Speaker 1: like have his own thing that wasn't a public thing
Speaker 1: at all times, like a lot of people enjoy. So um,
Speaker 1: that was how that started. And then I complied, I said, yes,
Speaker 1: I will be. I didn't tell any You couldn't tell
Speaker 1: your mother, partner, your love her or whoever, nobody, your dog.
Speaker 1: Nobody could know. And so that I had one friend,
Speaker 1: he lived one friend, and I said, I'm gonna ask you,
Speaker 1: can I tell one friend? And I probably I know
Speaker 1: she's not going to say a downward And he knew
Speaker 1: her because he had invited it. She used to hang
Speaker 1: out with us in the early days. And that's my
Speaker 1: best friend, Sarah Lee, who's also a bass player with
Speaker 1: the bfifty twos and Gang of Four. She's on Love
Speaker 1: Shack and Indigo Girls, Galileo or that she lives up here.
Speaker 1: We've been friends for like thairty almost forty years. So
Speaker 1: Sarah new because and he liked her. He loved when
Speaker 1: she came around because I think it's because she's a
Speaker 1: brit so they would get all British, you know, together,
Speaker 1: and he was very kind to her. So I said,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna need somebody to bring me down
Speaker 1: to the studio and I don't want to use the
Speaker 1: cross service. They can't know either like I used to
Speaker 1: use the class anither. He didn't want nobody had to
Speaker 1: know where I was going or what I was doing.
Speaker 1: So I made up a story that I was in
Speaker 1: the city for two weeks working. It's an artist that
Speaker 1: didn't exist, and nobody was and I knew nobody was
Speaker 1: going to look them up because I said, it's this
Speaker 1: new it's some new artists in Sweden. I don't know.
Speaker 1: They got some money, you know. I made up as
Speaker 1: as I said, they have some money, and you know
Speaker 1: they can put me up for two weeks and I'm
Speaker 1: going down to sitting and work on this record and
Speaker 1: I'll be back. Nobody blinked an eyelash. No one looked
Speaker 1: it up. Okay, it really so it was perfect. I
Speaker 1: was holding my breath. You don't ask think what it um.
Speaker 1: So Sarah knew and I said, Sarah, will you drive
Speaker 1: me down? So I can take my basis and my
Speaker 1: pedals and all the things I needed for the work.
Speaker 1: For the session. I had to take a few different
Speaker 1: basis because I never knew what was coming. I had
Speaker 1: no idea what I was going to play. So I
Speaker 1: had to take a threatness and the five string and
Speaker 1: the four string, and you know, flat wounds and noun wounds.
Speaker 1: And I had you know, six basis or whatever with
Speaker 1: me and a bunch of pedals and and everything. I
Speaker 1: knew they had ants there, so I went down and
Speaker 1: she dropped me off, so she knew where I was,
Speaker 1: and she was cool, and she picked up when it
Speaker 1: was over, and um, that's it. In that time, and
Speaker 1: every day he came in he had charts. They had
Speaker 1: been working on stuff. So for me, I usually come
Speaker 1: in with things are pretty much together. I'm just going
Speaker 1: to add the bass part this one. This time there
Speaker 1: were some parts that were like Tony because he was
Speaker 1: a bass player. Normally he's the one playing on the
Speaker 1: records of somebody else. Um, but Tony had written out
Speaker 1: some things I don't leave very well, but I could
Speaker 1: once I learned what they were, I could just play them.
Speaker 1: I could kind of see what was happening on the page.
Speaker 1: But it was only certain little films that that made
Speaker 1: sense in the music. I can't tell you what they
Speaker 1: are now, I don't remember, But otherwise I was it
Speaker 1: was again up to interpretation. He had a basic set up.
Speaker 1: There was from chords. He had a little piano and
Speaker 1: a little like a little set up at a piano
Speaker 1: where he was playing his demos for us so you
Speaker 1: could hear what he had been doing at home. And
Speaker 1: then we take it away and re rehash it and
Speaker 1: read and said how and we embellish. I see where
Speaker 1: you're going. Okay, let's see, let's see what we work out.
Speaker 1: It's like like we normally would work with him. He'd
Speaker 1: bring in a really rough idea, but he knew what
Speaker 1: he wanted, he knew what he knew what we were
Speaker 1: going to give him, I guess, you know. And we
Speaker 1: did that. We made him he was he was. He
Speaker 1: had that happy look on his face that you like
Speaker 1: to see when you look through the thing. You're like, oh,
Speaker 1: good god, he's smiling and he's dancing. Oh he's dancing, sofa,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I really hit it. It's true. Those
Speaker 1: are the definite moments I remember him that I could
Speaker 1: see him in his bedroom slippers. He'd come in and
Speaker 1: he put on his little slippers and get normal for
Speaker 1: his glasses on. Totally normal person, just creating music, just working,
Speaker 1: loving it, enjoying it, happy, smiling, joking, drinking lots of
Speaker 1: coffee and used to be smoking. And I was right
Speaker 1: with him, but we could driving around the same time
Speaker 1: when his daughter was born. I've been smoked for you
Speaker 1: in a sense, thank god, m Um. But uh so
Speaker 1: that was how that came about. And then I'm not
Speaker 1: on the whole album only because when I left um
Speaker 1: there were more songs to do, but I couldn't get
Speaker 1: back because I couldn't tell anybody where I was going,
Speaker 1: and I was busy until he called Tony Leathern. He
Speaker 1: called Tony Leavin, which is fine. He's my neighbor and
Speaker 1: I love Tony, but he was He lived across the
Speaker 1: street from me until a couple of years ago, so um,
Speaker 1: that was great. And he used to bring in the ideas,
Speaker 1: like he had some sheet music that he had brought out,
Speaker 1: maybe with words. I can't remember what was on it,
Speaker 1: because what happened was he'd come in with a little
Speaker 1: briefcase and at the beginning of the day and his
Speaker 1: little apple cap as a baseball cap or whatever. And
Speaker 1: he come in and he opened up this little briefcase
Speaker 1: and he put the music on the stands where we
Speaker 1: were all stations. They all had our little stations. And
Speaker 1: then and then at the end of the day he'd
Speaker 1: come and ripped it off. But he'd do it, he dramatically,
Speaker 1: like funny. He come, he come around and he put
Speaker 1: snapped the paper off, and he put in his you know,
Speaker 1: his his little duffier like you'll never get them, you know,
Speaker 1: it's funny. And that was the ritual. Every day. He
Speaker 1: took everything home, everything hard drives everything. At the end
Speaker 1: of that day, he was adamant that nobody was going
Speaker 1: to screw him with this and he he and then
Speaker 1: it was done and I heard nothing because I was like,
Speaker 1: I wondered if he would ever put it out. This
Speaker 1: was two years between when I did all that, and
Speaker 1: I was like, I and I never mentioned it again.
Speaker 1: I never mentioned it to anybody into you and there's
Speaker 1: no way in the world. I was like, it was
Speaker 1: a Swedish artist. Remember his name? He didn't. He didn't
Speaker 1: do very well. Right when I got paid, so and
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, I can remember it like
Speaker 1: clockwork was. It's usually I was listening to W dst
Speaker 1: rating him, so what stock and the clock radio goes
Speaker 1: off the nine or whatever time it was going off
Speaker 1: for me more than I listened to Gregatine and the
Speaker 1: radio went off, and then um, you know, I lay
Speaker 1: there for a minute, and all of a sudden, I
Speaker 1: hear them say there's a new Bowie single has just
Speaker 1: come out, and it's just come out this minute, and
Speaker 1: and I was like, you know, my heart stopped. I
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, and it was where are
Speaker 1: we now with Tony? And I was like, oh, because
Speaker 1: that was one song I didn't know because I didn't
Speaker 1: get to do that one. There were a few, but
Speaker 1: I played on the good amount of those songs I
Speaker 1: can't remember now. And then it was they did a
Speaker 1: deluxe version after the first original version, and then there
Speaker 1: was another batch of like three or four songs I
Speaker 1: was on that are on that like, um, the one
Speaker 1: with the UFO Let's get risk calls uh and and
Speaker 1: there's a UM I can't remember the names now, God,
Speaker 1: I gotta put that record out. Yeah. So that's that's
Speaker 1: how that kind of came about and what happened with that?
Speaker 1: From me anyway? And I didn't know about black, so
Speaker 1: I had no idea. He did it again, and I
Speaker 1: had no idea. I knew I had a little bit
Speaker 1: of an idea because somebody knew something that he was
Speaker 1: working on something and and and I think someone mentioned
Speaker 1: the word jazz or something. And then I just thought, well,
Speaker 1: that makes sense because we used to talk about Stan
Speaker 1: Kenton and stuff. He used to love stand Kent. In fact,
Speaker 1: he introduced me to him. I hadn't really didn't I
Speaker 1: like jazz, but I didn't know his music that much.
Speaker 1: So he listened to that Tropicana album and stuff and
Speaker 1: just really love it. And I knew that he said,
Speaker 1: one day I want to do something like this. And
Speaker 1: when he says one day I want to and he's
Speaker 1: just gonna fucking as unlike some people like myself. So
Speaker 1: I'm trying to learn how that magic works. I'm trying to,
Speaker 1: you know, make it like one day I'm gonna hey,
Speaker 1: is anybody listening anyway? So he says, one day I'm
Speaker 1: gonna make a jazz record. I really want to do that,
Speaker 1: you know. And and a long time ago we talked
Speaker 1: about mingus is one of he's like my favorite bass
Speaker 1: time and that's that's his favorite jazz on We discovered that.
Speaker 1: So we would just ningus out sometimes and have like
Speaker 1: ningus days and to go and visit him sometimes and
Speaker 1: listen to records. He had a little stace where he
Speaker 1: had vinyl and stuff was great and m so he
Speaker 1: made Black Star, which was involved Donnie mccassman and a
Speaker 1: jazz or more jazzy thing that made sense. It's kind
Speaker 1: of like Stan Kenton, but everything he did he always
Speaker 1: put the BOWI spin on it from earth thing to
Speaker 1: you know, to the black start life. If he's doing
Speaker 1: jazz or if he's doing funk or like Lad's dance
Speaker 1: or whatever, it's it's still got a thing from him
Speaker 1: that that's what makes us that I don't know, and
Speaker 1: that's undescribable to me as well. You know what, what
Speaker 1: how how does he take these genres that he loves
Speaker 1: and twist them just ever so slightly that it becomes
Speaker 1: him And you're not thinking, oh, it's just it's some
Speaker 1: and making a jazz right. You know, it's different, do
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Something someone has tried like
Speaker 1: you know I'm trying. I'm trying to bridge that myself
Speaker 1: with some new work that I'm trying to work on,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, trying to pull together. It's like
Speaker 1: I want to do something from a particular genre, but
Speaker 1: I don't want it to be retro. It's not like
Speaker 1: I'm making a record of that genre. I'm making a
Speaker 1: record of now because now is now. But that is
Speaker 1: a huge influence of something from that energy I want
Speaker 1: to incorporate with my own energy. And how that meshes
Speaker 1: together is is is sometimes a mystery. Sometimes it just
Speaker 1: falls together and other times. But for him, I feel
Speaker 1: like it was something that was just it's always worked.
Speaker 1: He knew just how to turn that turnd, that tap,
Speaker 1: you know, how to just what mixtures of you know,
Speaker 1: to put in the bowl and stir it up. And
Speaker 1: it was always the perfect mixture. You know, it always
Speaker 1: tastes perfect. It would take and it tastes like him.
Speaker 1: You know. It was Bowie's. Bowie's pancake makes nobody else's,
Speaker 1: you know. So yeah, so I was very surprised when
Speaker 1: he passed away. It was awful. It was awful. That
Speaker 1: was an awful year. I thought that, Yeah, this year's
Speaker 1: that she was pretty awful, But that was awful toy
Speaker 1: bad omen of something I felt in some way. No,
Speaker 1: not not not one for the books, No, not at all.
Speaker 1: We lost so many incredible at people, and him especially
Speaker 1: was such a surprise. Mhm. Yeah. I hadn't seen him
Speaker 1: that that year, and I had an email from him
Speaker 1: that was kind of strange close to the time that
Speaker 1: he passed away. Now it makes sense, but it didn't.
Speaker 1: It's not that it didn't make sense, but I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's a nice email. I don't know where I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: And I was kind of like that just a hello,
Speaker 1: I love you kind of email, like kind of just
Speaker 1: so it's not a usual thing. He's not a sentimental
Speaker 1: kind of guy in that way that I think. I
Speaker 1: don't know. He's a sweet man and very kind and
Speaker 1: one of the most respectful people I've ever met, especially
Speaker 1: someone in his position that could but sometimes can we
Speaker 1: thinks they can afford to not be the respect I
Speaker 1: should put it that way, you know. But he was
Speaker 1: just so kind and sweet. But he wasn't a mushy guy,
Speaker 1: you know. He didn't want you to get mushy. He didn't.
Speaker 1: That's the British thing, I guess, you know. Oh, come on,
Speaker 1: it's just up a it make a cup of tea.
Speaker 1: You know. It's like, I don't want to go there.
Speaker 1: Let's not get too sentimental about things. So I had
Speaker 1: a little bit of a sentimental email from him before
Speaker 1: he passed, which was interesting. That must be really nice
Speaker 1: to have now just as a oh yeah, absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 1: You know, it has been such a tremendous honor speaking you.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for taking the time. But before
Speaker 1: I let you go, I I'm trying to see you
Speaker 1: play live, but we're speaking in in late winter. The
Speaker 1: live music industry is obviously shut down. How can people
Speaker 1: see the work that you're doing at the moment when
Speaker 1: they can't see you on the stage. Oh, I would
Speaker 1: love people to check out my Patreon page if possible.
Speaker 1: It's it's brand new now pretty well. I've just gone
Speaker 1: through our first month in February and I'm just gearing
Speaker 1: up for the second month. So I'm still finding my footing.
Speaker 1: It's obviously this is such a new adjustment for for
Speaker 1: everybody in the world, trying to remain creative in the
Speaker 1: digital world and the virtual world or I'm not sure
Speaker 1: what it's really called at this point, but I'm doing
Speaker 1: some you know, really I don't I'm not quite sure
Speaker 1: what how to describe it, but but we all know
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about, I think, and I'm so I'm
Speaker 1: doing this Patreon thing, which is a subscriber service, and
Speaker 1: right now I'm not doing my own music on it,
Speaker 1: but I will be eventually. I'm just trying to set
Speaker 1: up a system to give some people some um stories,
Speaker 1: some exclusives, some photographs, share some of my photographs and
Speaker 1: videos that I've made that you won't see anywhere else
Speaker 1: other than Patreon if you subscribe um Um. I'm also
Speaker 1: offering I'm giving myself a challenge, which is part of
Speaker 1: my regiment of rebuilding myself as a solo artist. Is
Speaker 1: that once a month on Patreon, I'm giving um a
Speaker 1: a cover tune. I'm announcing an artist at the end
Speaker 1: of the month, and then for the following month, I'm
Speaker 1: going to record a song by that artist, So you
Speaker 1: get to vote on which song you'd like to hear
Speaker 1: me cover. And I'm doing and just sort of doing
Speaker 1: it all on my own at my home studio, so
Speaker 1: it's not like a professional recording. Maybe it might be
Speaker 1: one day. Um, but I've just delivered the first song,
Speaker 1: which was Paul Williams was the first artist, one of
Speaker 1: my favorite songwriters, and I did I wrote last to
Speaker 1: Day without You, so um. That's where you can find me,
Speaker 1: and also on Instagram Gara Endorsey Music and on Facebook,
Speaker 1: which I also have a music fan page under Gala
Speaker 1: Endorsey Music. And I think Twitter as well. I don't
Speaker 1: use Twitter so much. I don't quite understand it. I'm
Speaker 1: going to be honest, it's gonna sound like an old
Speaker 1: fogie here, but on Twitter I don't get. But I'm
Speaker 1: going on Instagram and Facebook kind of. But Instagram I
Speaker 1: enjoy and I'm there occasionally. I'm trying to be there
Speaker 1: a little more. But now most of my attention is Patreon,
Speaker 1: so I would hope people would check it out if
Speaker 1: they're interested in saying what I'm doing in the future,
Speaker 1: because I am working on some new music from I'm
Speaker 1: solo venture Patreon dot com. We will check it out
Speaker 1: there and we hopefully, very very soon we will see
Speaker 1: you on the stage in front of us no screens, Yes, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1: Off the Record is a production of I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: If you liked what you heard, please subscribe, and leave
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