1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: Hey guys, exciting news. I'm really really stoked about this. 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:08,040 Speaker 1: On March seventh, at noon Pacific Standard time, Team Sideways 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: is going to host an a m A on the 4 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: Unresolved Mysteries subreddit on Reddit. Pretty exciting. Hell yeah, yeah, 5 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 1: So the mods will post an announcement a week prior, 6 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: so if you can't join us at that time, at 7 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: that date, you can post your questions there. Um, please 8 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: don't email us questions will lose them and forget them. 9 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: Let's try and contain this just to Reddit. But we're 10 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 1: super excited and uh yeah, so if you can join us. Sorry, 11 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: just in case somebody you know, five years from now 12 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: I was listening to this episode, not two thousand seventeen. 13 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 1: This is not true yourself two thousand seventeen. Sorry, thinking Sideways. 14 00:00:53,760 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: I don't under to say you never know stories of 15 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: things we simply don't know the answer to. Hey, guys, 16 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: what's up sinking side With the podcast? I'm Devin hosting 17 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:22,320 Speaker 1: super Well, joined by my co hosts and Steve Yeah, 18 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:28,400 Speaker 1: here's one for you. In eighteen thirty six, five boys 19 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: were hunting rabbits in the northeast area of Arthur c Edinburgh. 20 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 1: Pro tip if you are boys hunting and you find 21 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:39,199 Speaker 1: something even remotely weird, just just walk away, just walk away. 22 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: The number of cases that we cover that start out 23 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: in this way is mind boggling to me. It's boys, 24 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: specifically young boys groups as young boys find something and 25 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: then think, oh, I know, let's go investigate that. Why why? 26 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: Because they're boys. The ten year old boy in me 27 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: come completely identifies with the boys in this story absolutely. 28 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: You know, if you if you have the potential to 29 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: kick off a really cool unsolved mystery, and then you 30 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: should should not turn your back on that as long 31 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: as it doesn't involve you getting killed. No, it's mostly 32 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: just playing with stuff, yeah, throwing stuff. I just think 33 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: we should start keeping a counter. These kids were kind 34 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: of jerks, but we'll get into that later. Yeah. So, okay, 35 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: the boys were hunting wabbits. Wabbits kill the wabbitibbit, kill 36 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:34,519 Speaker 1: the labbit, and they came across the cave. Zwinks they 37 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 1: better check that out, so they did. Inside they found 38 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: seventeen small caskets and a pile. And by the way, 39 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: this wasn't really a cave. It was kind of like 40 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:49,799 Speaker 1: kind of like a hole inside on the side of 41 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 1: the hillside. My story is so much better. Cave is cool. 42 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: Cave is cool. No, it was found a torch, an 43 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: old torch, and they lit the torch and they walked 44 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: into the cave. But it didn't really happen that way, 45 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 1: and it didn't happen that it kind of an alcove area. 46 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: Three pieces of slate covering. I don't know. There were 47 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 1: seventeen small caskets and a pile, eight on the bottom, 48 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: eight in the middle, and one on top. And upon 49 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: further investigation, guys so smart, they found that the caskets 50 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: contained a small wooden doll in each one, carved to 51 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: look like a human, clothed and small handmade garments. The 52 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: dolls were said to be about the size of an 53 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: adult finger, so three or four inches long. The doll, 54 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: not the cast. Yeah, the doll, okay, yeah, just making 55 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: sure being boys, dumb, stupid boys. Hey, Instead of running 56 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: to the police or the adult with this fine, they decided, oh, 57 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: you know, it would be awesome, Let's just throw all 58 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: these things at each other. This is the equivalent of 59 00:03:56,160 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: a dirt wad fight. You find something and you throw 60 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: it at your friend to make them run. And screened 61 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: this is why the ten year old boy loves this story. Somebody. Yeah, 62 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: I mean it's like, you know, at that age, I 63 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: probably would have done the same thing. I would be 64 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: because of this. Only eight of these dolls remained. They 65 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: were destroyed. Most of them were destroyed. Yeah, and before 66 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 1: we go much further, this is the Arthur Seat murder dolls. 67 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: And it was listener suggestion about a million years ago 68 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: from Thomas all right, ready to keep going. Yeah, creeping 69 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: me out, kind of creepy boys throwing caskets and each 70 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: other creeps you out a little, tiny caskets. It gets 71 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 1: a little creepier, a little creepier maybe. Anyhow, it's not 72 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: clear how the eight remaining caskets that did make it 73 00:04:54,640 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: made it back to civilization, well, in any kind of sense. 74 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: The boys were never questioned, they never gave any statements. 75 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: It's unclear if they told their school teacher or he 76 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: overheard them talking about how much fun it was that 77 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: they were throwing coffins at each other. Was it the 78 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: school teacher or their head master head I thought it 79 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: was the head master. Somebody involved in school, okay, who 80 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: happened to also be an amateur archaeologist. Because that's what 81 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 1: you did in those days, right, So he heard the 82 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 1: boys or the boys told him or something. Maybe one 83 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: of the boys had a black guy, and he was like, wow, 84 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: that happened. He was like this dude through and he 85 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: was like, okay, we'll tell me more. Either way, somehow 86 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 1: the dolls made it back. And again it's not clear 87 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: even if it was only the eight dolls or all 88 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 1: of the dolls or what happened, but only eight of 89 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: them really survived. Yeah, thanks have a way sort of 90 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: like disappearing. Yeah, let's talk about the dolls for a 91 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: seconds more. I guess a little more. We've talked about 92 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: them little bit already. There are some reports that there 93 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: are both male and female dolls, but I don't actually 94 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: think that's the case. I would agree with this, And 95 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: like I said, only eight of the dolls survived, but 96 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 1: none of them, as far as I can tell, were 97 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: dressed as women. And let's be fair, if you're going 98 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: to make tiny little doll clothes, it's way easier to 99 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:23,359 Speaker 1: make a skirt than it is to make little trousers. 100 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,039 Speaker 1: But they all had little trousers on the ones that 101 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: weren't decayed, didn't didn't They weren't where the trousers so 102 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: right with legs, because I mean these things didn't have 103 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: individual legs. They they did, did they had? Yeah? They had, 104 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: they had, and they had a pair of legs. They 105 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: weren't just like a stub that had some kind of 106 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: feature carved into them to give the appearance there were 107 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:49,799 Speaker 1: two individual legs and little pants on them, little pants 108 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 1: on them. The dolls in the bottom coffin seemed to 109 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: have been older and more deteriorated. Some of the garments 110 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: were rotting away or totally rotted away, you can see 111 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,559 Speaker 1: in some of the pictures this. The middle tier seemed 112 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:06,359 Speaker 1: to have looked more recent, and the top one apparently 113 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: looked almost brand new. And again, in fairness, this is 114 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: I'm not it's not clear how this information was relayed. Yeah, 115 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: the kids probably upset the site quite a bit when 116 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: they pillaged it so they could throw stuff at each other. 117 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: So these were found in Arthur's Seats, which is in Edinburgh, 118 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: scott Scotland. Is that right? Yeah? Did you do any 119 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: research on that site by chance? Like pertaining to what? Well? 120 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: I just I pulled a Joe and I went Google mapping, 121 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: and then I started researching it. Did you know that 122 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 1: that's actually an old volcano, which is really cool. Yeah, 123 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: it's also only about two miles away from the ocean, 124 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: the North Sea, right, not the ocean. It's it's really weird, 125 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: raised out raised chunk of earth in the middle of 126 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: a town. So it's just it was really interesting to me, 127 00:07:57,880 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: and that's why I was just asking. Yeah, it's a 128 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: pretty cool all spot. It's one of the only fully 129 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: green spots on Google in Edinburgh because the rest is 130 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: a town. Back to the dolls, there were two different 131 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: kinds of coffins, one carved more rounded, one a little 132 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: more square. The different kinds of coffins, however, don't seem 133 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: to have been exclusive by tier. They were all inter 134 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: mingled when and and this is I saw this in 135 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: the photos of people might not understand this when you 136 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 1: say rounded versus square. The square was really more just 137 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 1: a rectangle, just simple straight pieces of wood, and the 138 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: rounded it only looked like somebody had basically carved off 139 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 1: the corners to smooth it out a little bit. So 140 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: that was the only style difference I saw. That was 141 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: my impression too, Okay, not that some of them were 142 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: circles and some of them Yeah, that would be super weird. 143 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,079 Speaker 1: It also seems that the dolls were not actually made 144 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: for this purpose. Men any of the dolls were missing 145 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 1: limbs arms. Specifically, they all had their legs, I think, 146 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: so that they would fit inside the coffins. And in fact, 147 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: it's a bit odd that the coffins weren't made to 148 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: the size of the dolls. That's one of the things 149 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: that sort of made me wonder too. Yeah, it doesn't 150 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: seem like maybe they were always meant to be together, 151 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: but the dolls do seem to have been from the 152 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: same set. They all seemed to be almost identical. The 153 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: theory is that they were a set of soldiers, toy soldiers. 154 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: There were markings around the feet that looked like they 155 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: had once been painted, like they were little booties, black booties. 156 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: Were they painted or were they blackened? I got the 157 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: impression that they were black and almost with soot or 158 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:46,719 Speaker 1: a candle or something. It's a cheaper way to do it. 159 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: You just grab a chunk charcoal out of the fire, 160 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: you know. Well, yeah, I know, And this is why 161 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't. I never saw anything said specifically. 162 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: Some said they were black and some said they were 163 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 1: black and that was my too, so I just said painted. 164 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: But you're probably right. It probably was something more like 165 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 1: charcoal or something like that, which wouldn't last as long, 166 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: but who cares. They were worried about that. The legs 167 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: were carved in a way that seemed to note kind 168 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: of a rigid, upward standing post, like standing at attention 169 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 1: if you're a toy soldier. Yeah, And in fact, upon 170 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: further inspection, it was discovered that they would stand straight 171 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: on their own if a small amount of weight was 172 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:34,839 Speaker 1: added to the front of them, like a musket. The 173 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 1: arms that were missing would have held a musket. It 174 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: would have been on like a bandolier across their chest 175 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:46,079 Speaker 1: or something tripod kind of like long across their chest, 176 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: just like hanging there. So it wasn't actually going to 177 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,439 Speaker 1: touch the ground, Okay, I got I got the impression 178 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 1: that it was that you see soldiers, you know, let's yeah, 179 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 1: you know, holding their gun against the ground, so they 180 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 1: make a tripod. That wasn't my sense. It was that 181 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: they would have had something else lashed them. I will 182 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: believe you, because I'm not positive I didn't go as 183 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:15,439 Speaker 1: far down in this one. Yeah, that's probably true. It 184 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: was like I said, they were probably toy soldiers, and 185 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 1: they probably had muskets or something like that, so they 186 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: would stand upright in that situation and quickly. I want 187 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 1: to address the rotting because the different It was initially 188 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: suggested that perhaps they were of three different ages, that 189 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 1: the bottom ones had been placed much earlier than the 190 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: middle ones, and the middle ones placed much earlier than 191 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 1: the top one, or that perhaps the top tier was 192 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: in a work in progress or whatever. But I do 193 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: want to just mention anybody who's ever had like a 194 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:56,439 Speaker 1: woodpile may know that things rot from the bottom because 195 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: that's where the moistures end. So those would have, even 196 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: if they've all been placed at the same time, would 197 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:06,079 Speaker 1: have absolutely rotted much quicker and would have looked as 198 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: though they were much older than the middle and top ones. 199 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:15,079 Speaker 1: Tears tears, will call them tears, Yeah, tears good, Yeah, yeah, 200 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: because you're gonna have fungus and bugs and just plain 201 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 1: water damage in general to that would yeah, it makes 202 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: total sense. Yeah. So, like I said, there was the 203 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: original thought that they had been placed at different times. 204 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 1: I don't think that's true. I think it was probably 205 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: at the same time, maybe a short period of time 206 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: but definitely no more than twelve years, which I guess 207 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: is kind of a long period of time that has 208 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: got a long period of time. Yeah, I mean, I 209 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: definitely if it was me doing this, I would have 210 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: done all at once, just to save myself a lot 211 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: of trips up the mountainside. Yeah. Well, but that's that's 212 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: inferring that if somebody's putting their these in that location 213 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 1: for specific reason, that it's one reason and not a 214 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 1: reason that reoccurs over a period of time, because I 215 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: know some of the reasons that they would happen we're 216 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: going to talk about in the theory section. So that's 217 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: that's a big presumption. I have to say, I'm going 218 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: to do it just this way because it's easiest. No, Actually, 219 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: what I really would have done pitched him out in 220 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:25,439 Speaker 1: the trash, but yeah, not broken. I would have got 221 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 1: to the hassle of making them little coffins. I would 222 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: have just like tossed them but given them too. Obviously, Yeah, 223 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: obviously I've got I've got different motivations than whoever with 224 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 1: these things there. And here's where I get to actually 225 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: nerd out a little bit to help justify my no 226 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 1: longer than twelve years things, because I'm really excited about this. 227 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: I am a bit of a historical fashion buff you 228 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: as you to know sitting in this room with me, 229 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: and this is where don't talk anymore. There was a 230 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: lot of analysis of the textiles and notions. And notions 231 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: are like thread and buttons and the other miscellaneous things 232 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 1: other than just the cloth that you would use to 233 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 1: create something in case you didn't know what those things were. Anyways, 234 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: there was a lot of analysis happening on that aspect 235 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 1: of the dolls. Since it was it's pretty well recognized 236 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: that they probably were tour soldiers and they came from 237 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: the same set. It's hard to glean a date from 238 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: that because they could have been years old by the 239 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: time they were placed in the coffin. So they thought, well, 240 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: let's look at the fabric, which I think is great. 241 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: If you look at the pictures of the dolls, it's 242 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: fairly clear to say that they're not really clothed for burial. 243 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: That is to say, they're not in the traditional burial 244 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: clothes of the time. It's more of a garments kind 245 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: of representing clothes every day where, or maybe not garments 246 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: at all, just to cover basically chunks of cloth that 247 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: they just put over the top of them, right, Yeah, 248 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: except that they weren't actually just placed on top of 249 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: them like a blanket. They were actually sewn into sleeves 250 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: and pants. In fact, some of the dolls that were 251 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: missing arms also there are not armholes where an arm 252 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: would have been. The seam is sewn up over that 253 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: missing arm. So they were clothed for the purpose of 254 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: going into those coffins once the coffins were made to size, 255 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: which is fairly interesting. No, you guys are looking at 256 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: me like this is boring. Well just I just this 257 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: is this fashion with thread count and notions are I 258 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: don't get it? Yeah, so this is the this is 259 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: actually the bit. I'll just get to the bit that 260 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: excites me a lot. The curator of European Textiles at 261 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 1: the National Museum of Scotland looked at these garments and 262 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 1: she noticed that the thread that had been used in 263 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: some of the garments with three ply cotton thread. This, okay, 264 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: three ply though cotton threats. So you know applies are 265 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: because you buy toilet paper. Yeah right. The reply is 266 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: there's three layers. Yes, two ply is two layers and 267 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: single ply is one layer. Never used single ply, right, 268 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: Why would you ever do that to yourself? It's awful. 269 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: But the same thing goes for thread. You can make 270 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: thread with just one strand, or you can make it 271 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: with multiple strands. It's stronger. So it's three strands wound 272 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: around each other pretty much. Yeah, okay, I've got it. 273 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: This is significant because the kind of thread, this three 274 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: ply cotton thread wasn't even remotely available prior to eighteen twelve, 275 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: and didn't become readily available and used until the eighteen thirties. 276 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: So that can help us give a bit of a 277 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: timeline for these garments. And it is fair to say 278 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: that the some of the other garments were sewn with 279 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 1: two or one ply thread, so they could have been 280 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 1: sewn earlier at the same time. You know, people don't 281 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: just pitch stuff out right. I mean, I've got I've 282 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: actually got sewing thread that I inherited from my mother, 283 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 1: and you know who knows she might have inherited from 284 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 1: her grand because why throw it out? Yeah, there's a 285 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 1: couple of loops that you hang onto him for a 286 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: quick stitch job. Yeah, So this allows us to date 287 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 1: the dolls as having likely been interred between the eighteen twenties, 288 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 1: mid eighteen twenties to mid eighteen thirties, likely eight eighteen 289 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,679 Speaker 1: thirty five, just for convenience sake, I would say it's 290 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: a pretty good time frame on cotton thread. So at first, 291 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:38,120 Speaker 1: the suspicion was that these dolls were related to witchcraft. 292 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: That's what which I mean, this is kind of late 293 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:48,399 Speaker 1: for the witchcraft bandwagon. It's not the sixteen hundreds. Probably 294 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: at that time, probably still a lot of people are 295 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 1: kind of believing in that stuff. Well, it turns out 296 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: as recently as some women in Russia were murdered because 297 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: they used folk magic on some people. They were burned 298 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: at the stake. No, I mean even in the even 299 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 1: in the twenty one century. I mean, there have been rumors, 300 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: rumors of witchcraft started in some countries in Africa, and 301 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: next thing you know, people are getting killed because of it. Yeah, 302 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 1: so it's still going on. Yeah, people thought maybe because 303 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: they were mixing voodoo and witchcraft. Up, I'm not totally sure. 304 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: I'm not up on my witchcraft stuff. I guess I 305 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: should go back and do some learning. I didn't realize 306 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: that they used dolls, but I guess the theory was 307 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:34,360 Speaker 1: that maybe the dolls were used to symbolically confined victims 308 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 1: to their tombs forever. Well, the dolls could be there. 309 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 1: An effigy and effigies have a pretty long history and 310 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 1: they've been used for lots of things, traditional burial things 311 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: when a sarcophagus is not the right thing. But if 312 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: you see the old stone carvings of kings that sit 313 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,439 Speaker 1: on top of their their caskets, that's an effigy. But 314 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: effigies have been used in all scales for all kinds 315 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 1: of practices through time, so an effigy can easily be 316 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: linked to it. And I don't think it has to 317 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: just be a voodoo saying fair. Yeah, and I guess 318 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: we're in Theories's just keep talking about theories. Another primary 319 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,679 Speaker 1: early theory was that these dolls were meant to represent 320 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: an effigy a bit sailors who had been lost at sea, 321 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: to give them a sort of ceremonial burial. And like 322 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: we said earlier, Arthur's seat is just about two miles 323 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: away from the coast of the North Sea. It does 324 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 1: overlook the sea. It's pretty It's the kind of place 325 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: you might bury somebody you cared about, even if only 326 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 1: in a four inch long doll. That makes sense, But 327 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:48,679 Speaker 1: you would think that would be some sort of memorial marker. 328 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 1: You would think that you would also think that there 329 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 1: would have been some sort of record of the loss 330 00:19:54,960 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: of seventeen souls. I don't think they bothered again, Okay, 331 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 1: I'm going to point out a fallacy in that that, 332 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 1: which is you're presuming that all seventeen died at the 333 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 1: same time. We're we're giving a ten year range for 334 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: these things to have been interred, which means that even 335 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: if it wasn't over that ten year time span, there 336 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: could have been time between them being put in there. 337 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: So it could be I knew Steve and Joe went 338 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: on this ship, and then that whaling ship sank, so 339 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 1: I made effigy so I could bury them at home, 340 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 1: and then of course, and then the next is the 341 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: next ship that you know a couple of guys are on, 342 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:43,359 Speaker 1: and so it could have built up that way. So 343 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: I mean, we've got to be careful of saying they 344 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,119 Speaker 1: were all interred at the same time with that idea. 345 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: That's fair, That's totally fair. I guess I just think 346 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 1: there's a cooler theory out there. I hate I hate 347 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:57,919 Speaker 1: this one. Why do you want to talk about that 348 00:20:57,960 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: first or do you want to talk about it after? 349 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: Let's wait till after. No, let's talk about your feelings. 350 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: Let's not you know, I'm not a big talking about 351 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: my feelings guy. Podcast therapy session. This is not that podcast. 352 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: Are you guys ready? Are you guys up on your 353 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: early nineteenth century murders in Scotland? Yeah, some listeners maybe 354 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: as well, So you might know these guys, William Burke 355 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: and William Hair. Yeah. Burke and Hair were Irish born 356 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,639 Speaker 1: immigrants to Scotland. They are so famous, in fact, that 357 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 1: there's apparently a British term called Burking, which is derived 358 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 1: from Burke's name. So why are they famous? You may 359 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: be asking if you don't know, if you're not up 360 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: like we are on our early nineteenth century murders in Scotland. 361 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: Well for killing people, of course at the killings. They 362 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: are the guys behind what's known as the Westport murders, 363 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: and they killed sixteen people in ten months. But Devin, 364 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 1: you're yelling undoubtedly at your iPod in the car and 365 00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:02,160 Speaker 1: people think you're crazy. There were seventeen calls. Well, kind listener, 366 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: that's interesting because Burke and hair were killing folks to 367 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: sell to a doctor to dissect, and they actually sold 368 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: seventeen bodies. The first one died of natural causes. That 369 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: was there, like introductory, that was their inspiration. It's like, hey, wow, 370 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: they thought, oh, let's sell him. And then they're waiting 371 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: for somebody else to die natural causes, and they thought, 372 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 1: let's just rush the process a little bit. Yeah, the 373 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 1: first so he expired of natural causes, and they they yeah, 374 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: they basically realized how much money they could make and said, hey, 375 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 1: why don't we just kill some people sell their bodies. 376 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: What did they get? They sold it to a professor, 377 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 1: a doctor named Dr Knox, who is using him for lectures. 378 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,439 Speaker 1: That's what it was. Okay, so they actually sold the 379 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,640 Speaker 1: first body for a hefty seven pounds ten shillings, which 380 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,199 Speaker 1: doesn't sound like much now, but is about the equivalent 381 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: of one thousand, two hundred and six dollars and cents 382 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 1: or about eight dred and six pounds in two thousand fifteen. Yeah, 383 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,640 Speaker 1: I gotta tell you that that really wouldn't be enough 384 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: to incent about a murder somebody. In fairness, it's not 385 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:18,160 Speaker 1: nothing for just finding a body talking about murdering bucks, 386 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: I might be tempted. That's a good point. It gets better. 387 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: Doctor Knox offered any bodies that they bring him further, 388 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 1: particularly if they were mostly healthy and just died of like, oh, 389 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: I don't know, asphixiation or something. He would pay them 390 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,439 Speaker 1: ten pounds a body, and I'll do some quick I 391 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: did some quick math, and that meant that they in 392 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: ten months they would have made a handy twelve thousand, 393 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: four hundred and ninety six dollars in today's But there's 394 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: actually a better calculation for what it is actually equivalent 395 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: to with the cost of living. Blah blah blah, blah blah. 396 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: If you want to find out how I got this number, 397 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:51,879 Speaker 1: you can email me. I will tell you all about it. 398 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: I don't know for everybody, but it actually is about 399 00:23:55,800 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: the equivalent of two hundred and ten two dollars in 400 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: ten months by selling seventeen bodies and murdering sixteen people. 401 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 1: Murdering I don't know for two hundred and eleven. It 402 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:19,400 Speaker 1: wasn't like Hardy got him drunk and suffocated them. Anyways, 403 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,440 Speaker 1: The murders were okay. The murders and the one death 404 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:27,479 Speaker 1: were hugely sensationalized and Harren Burke were caught and tried. 405 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: This is super cliff notes version of this story because 406 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 1: this is not what the story is about. But essentially, 407 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 1: the prosecutors were under the impression that Harron Burke would 408 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: just say no, he didn't, no, he didn't know, he 409 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: did he did, and the jury would get confused because 410 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 1: people were dumb then, apparently, and they wouldn't convict either 411 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,400 Speaker 1: one of them. You know what, I think the jury 412 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,719 Speaker 1: probably would have convicted both. I agree, I think they 413 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 1: probably would have too. But because of this, the prosecutors said, oh, well, actually, 414 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: you know what, Hair is kind of the dummy of 415 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 1: the two, so they offered to allow him to become 416 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: what's do what's known as becoming King's evidence, which basically 417 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:09,880 Speaker 1: means for immunity rats out. He said, yes, I will 418 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 1: do that, and it worked, and in eighteen twenty nine 419 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 1: Burke was convicted and hanged. Actually he was convicted Christmas 420 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 1: Eve and executed a month later. You gotta love it, because, 421 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: I mean, that doesn't happen in this kind. It takes 422 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,640 Speaker 1: it takes thirty years at least. But here's the best 423 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: part is that the judge and his sentencing said yeah, 424 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,680 Speaker 1: you're going to be executed, and also, uh, also the 425 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: day after you're executed, you're going to be dissected in public. 426 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 1: And he was dissected in public and correct me if 427 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 1: I'm wrong. They then took his skeleton and that is 428 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 1: still in the Royal College. I think at least the 429 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: skull is. I'm not sure if it's entire. I know 430 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: it goes a step further than that. They actually sold 431 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: his skin as like pocket person They used it as 432 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: leather goods basically and sold it. It was yeah, one one, 433 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: like I don't know if it was, I can't remember. 434 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 1: It's like a card purse or something like that, a 435 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,439 Speaker 1: little small purse that was made from the skin of 436 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 1: his hand, and that's sold as recently I don't remember, 437 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: like two thousand and eight or something like that. Yeah, 438 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,400 Speaker 1: and it was. I mean that's the grossest part. Yeah, 439 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 1: I mean it's I I don't want to own anything 440 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: that would made out of somebody's skin, especially not a murderer. 441 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,360 Speaker 1: Who knows what kind of bad ju do that. Yeah, anyways, 442 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 1: you can look up the story. You should definitely look 443 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,719 Speaker 1: The hair is a horrifying story, horrifying and super fascinating, 444 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: great story. Now, can we get to my I don't 445 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 1: like the story? No? Why? Oh no, I'm sorry. Do 446 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: you have more on it? I do? Let's have that 447 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: lots more. So. It's again it's theorized that there were 448 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:47,880 Speaker 1: seventeen victims kind of so it could have been similar 449 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 1: to the burial for the sailors, kind of in an effigy. 450 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: What's referred to as a mimic burial is I think 451 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 1: probably the term you were looking for. It's because since 452 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: the bodies were dissected for science or reasons, they they 453 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,400 Speaker 1: never got a burial, so it was supposed to represent 454 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: them so that their souls could be laid to rest. 455 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: There is a huge problem, one huge problem at least, 456 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,879 Speaker 1: and that is that of the seventeen victims of Burke 457 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: and Hair, twelve war women, and all of the effigies 458 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: look male or don't have any feminine Not only do 459 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 1: they look man, that's fine, that's fine, there's no feminine 460 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: features at all, so that's pretty big. Additionally, the there's 461 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 1: the problem of who would have created the dolls that 462 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,159 Speaker 1: comes into play here because Burke and Hair there was 463 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 1: a thought that they one of them did it because 464 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 1: they felt bad, but Burke and Hair were apprehended directly 465 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: after their seventeenth murder. Well, and also they were sociopaths, 466 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: so they probably didn't feel bad. Well, I don't know 467 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: if they're sociopaths, but they don't strike me as the 468 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 1: kind of guys who would go to any huge I 469 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: think Hair seems like, well he he lived up the 470 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: rest of his life and misery again, or you should 471 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 1: read the story. It was not a popular guy. It 472 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 1: was not a popular guy, and people recognized him everywhere 473 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 1: he went. Anyways, some people have suggested that there was 474 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: an accomplice, because there were lots of accomplices, perhaps that 475 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 1: weren't ever actually convicted of anything um in regards to 476 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:24,879 Speaker 1: the Birken Hair story, But it seems like those people 477 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,400 Speaker 1: would want to keep a low profile, and maybe carting 478 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,880 Speaker 1: seventeen coffins, no matter how small, into the wilderness would 479 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,719 Speaker 1: be kind of a high profile thing. Well, but there 480 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: are four or five inch coffins. You can fit those 481 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: into a bag very easily. But even there's you're carrying 482 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 1: a bag of stuff. I think that they would have 483 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: not done anything even anything even kind of suspicious. Yeah, 484 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: I don't think so either, but you know, it's also possible, 485 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: and I don't think I'll just say this, I don't 486 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: think that the dolls are committed, are connected to the 487 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: murder and anyone, but it's but it is conceivable that 488 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: maybe somebody, having heard about these seventeen people haven't been 489 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: died and sent off to be dissected and then basically 490 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 1: tossed into the dumpster, maybe somebody got the idea to 491 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: create these epigees and bury them. Well. I guess it's 492 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: also probably worth noting that the theory that the dolls 493 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 1: were connected to the burke Hair murders the Westport murders 494 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: wasn't even positive and tell them the nineteen nineties, that 495 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: was an issue made and somebody looked back and thought, oh, 496 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: there's seventeen victims, and I know that the only thing 497 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: they have in common is another. Yeah, I think that 498 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: that's you know, I know Steve has a bunch of 499 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: stuff to talk about this, but I think that's one 500 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: of the big ones, right, Yeah, Well, yes, it's so 501 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: romantic to assign these dolls to this case. It's a 502 00:29:56,040 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: romantic notion. We've found this connection between in the two 503 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: and so somebody had remorse. That's to me why people 504 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: go to it. Okay, well too, maybe direct who might 505 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 1: have been And I again, I'm not on the stand 506 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: of saying that is connected these murders, but I know 507 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: that the wives and children and the woman who owned 508 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: the boarding house that they were in, they all got 509 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: out relatively unscaped, but they all had to leave town, 510 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: but they didn't have to leave town immediately. So if 511 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: we're gonna say this is correct, there is a possibility 512 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: that they had some bit of remorse or guilt or 513 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 1: felt like they needed to do some kind of penance 514 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 1: for it. So that's why they would have gone ahead 515 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 1: and done this. Okay, that's the easy answer. I did 516 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: a bunch of digging into the time frame and looking 517 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: at as we talked about a little bit earlier, is 518 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 1: that the use of effigies was something that had been 519 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: going on in Europe for years and years and years, 520 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 1: And because we talked about the sailors thing, but you know, 521 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: something else that was going on at the time and 522 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 1: very close to when the dolls were found, cholera, typhus 523 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: and influenza. You're rampant in the area. If you look 524 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 1: at the news prints of the time, all kinds of 525 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 1: alerts about this, and it's killing people like mad If 526 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 1: your family member dies of cholera at the hospital, they're 527 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 1: not giving you that. Boy, No, you're not going to 528 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: get the body back. So what do you do? You say, 529 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 1: uncle Jay and Janey died. Uncle Janey maybe, but and 530 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: Janie most likely, and Janey died, and we can't do anything. 531 00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna do this little ceremonial thing here and 532 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: then oops, well, now uncle Bob just got typhoid or 533 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 1: died of typhoid, and then somebody else of influenza. All 534 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: these deaths, it may have just been pure happistant. So 535 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: the reason that that's why I think they're there is 536 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: either as the sailors or somebody who knew as everybody did, 537 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 1: a bunch of people who died from some ailment that 538 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 1: was just running like wildfire through the population. That's a 539 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: that's very very true. Another possibility, even though I don't 540 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 1: think they would have gone to the bother, is that 541 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 1: maybe either Hair or Burke built up a little collection 542 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: of these little dolls. I say, and it wasn't because 543 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: they felt remorse, but because you know, they had time 544 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 1: in their hands and everything, like the accounting system Basically, 545 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 1: it's kind of like, you know, you know, every time 546 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,240 Speaker 1: you shoot down an enemy fighter, you put a little 547 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: you put a little Japanese zero on the side of 548 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: the nose of you're playing. Oh yeah, well two fighters today, Yeah, exactly. 549 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: So every time you do it, you create a you 550 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 1: can grab one of these dolls and make a little 551 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: coffin for it and put it in, and put it 552 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 1: in the coffin, and then perhaps one of their one 553 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: of their wives are supposed alleged accomplices, realize that, holy crap, 554 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 1: this is kind of incriminating. I got rid of it, 555 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: although I think that probably more likely want to shoot 556 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: all of my own theory, just would have burned them, 557 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,880 Speaker 1: you know, that's much simpler. Yeah, yeah, I just that 558 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: just popped into my head out there, just to fill 559 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 1: up a little air time. Yeah, I guess in fairness 560 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 1: to poke another hole in that. Like I said, Verk 561 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: and Hair were apprehended within I think an hour or 562 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 1: two of their for their last murder. They wouldn't have 563 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: had time to complete the seventeenth doll. Well actually, though 564 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: maybe maybe they completed the dolls before the murders. I 565 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 1: don't think they were that pre planned. I doubt I 566 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: doubt that they be crimes of opportunity. Yeah, and I mean, well, 567 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: that's the thing is you can say, well, the wife 568 00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: or the mistress could have done it, but then again, 569 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 1: why was she doing it? And at what point why 570 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 1: wouldn't she have just chucked him in the fire rather 571 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 1: than hiking up the hill and then putting them into 572 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,759 Speaker 1: a hole. That I think that the simpler answer of 573 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 1: somebody did it for something other than the Burke Hair murders. 574 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 1: I just I don't. I don't have any good theories 575 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,719 Speaker 1: about what else, which is why I went through all 576 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:29,920 Speaker 1: the historical documentation to try to find some explanation that 577 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,920 Speaker 1: was a little more rooted in fact. That's fair, I guess. 578 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: The only thing is that seventeen people is a lot 579 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 1: of people. But well, but your sphere of influence and 580 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:47,279 Speaker 1: close relations. It could be if there was a big 581 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,239 Speaker 1: scholar epidemic or something like that then, and people had 582 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,399 Speaker 1: a lot of kids back then, many of whom died young. 583 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,759 Speaker 1: So it could be family members. Uh got brother and 584 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 1: a sister, and Aunton and Knuckle, maybe one of your parents, 585 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 1: and then maybe a whole bunch of other people, you know, 586 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,919 Speaker 1: like schoolmates, or whatever, and so maybe that was There's 587 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 1: a host of reasons, and I think it's not going 588 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: to do with any benefit to beat him into the ground, 589 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:14,439 Speaker 1: but not a bunch of them. Yeah, there is. There 590 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: really is no mystery here, I think, but I don't 591 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: want to say that. I do want to say that 592 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,399 Speaker 1: it is interesting though. There was a little a lot 593 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 1: of approbrium directed a lot of people, like especially Hair 594 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,920 Speaker 1: of course, and the doctor Knox who dissected all these bodies. 595 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,560 Speaker 1: And it's like people keep bringing to these dead bodies 596 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: and you and you pay them for them, and pay 597 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: these guys for these bodies, and you never say where 598 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,359 Speaker 1: are you getting all these bodies from? And he just 599 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,240 Speaker 1: dissected them. And so he had mobs showing up outside 600 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,719 Speaker 1: his house and throwing rocks through his windows. All of 601 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,840 Speaker 1: the all of the family that the mistress, the wife, 602 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,640 Speaker 1: and children, they all had to get out of town. 603 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 1: Oh hell yeah, that was a bad scene. But the dolls, 604 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you know, I'm sorry I did a dangerous 605 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 1: thing where I brought up a really interesting case that 606 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: wasn't unsolved. That's super interesting. Yeah, I think it is solved, 607 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 1: but I'm sorry ment isn't unsolved, but there's a bunch 608 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:15,400 Speaker 1: of points. Yeah, we're back on topic, Devin. Where are 609 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 1: we going now? We're going nowhere? Yeah, we're there. Sorry, guys, 610 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 1: that's it. That's all we've got. Yeah, okay, that's the 611 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 1: whole like, that's all the theories. And Steve came up 612 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,279 Speaker 1: with a pretty good one. Yeah. I think. I think 613 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: the lesson is that if you've lost a lot of 614 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 1: loved ones and you want to make little effigies in 615 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,359 Speaker 1: their honor, do a better job of hiding themselves some 616 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:48,160 Speaker 1: little some little jerk kids and like really each other. 617 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Yeah yeah, So I mean that's it. 618 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,799 Speaker 1: I guess I like Steve sory the question. That's a 619 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,879 Speaker 1: good one. Yeah, okay one, although it doesn't explain why 620 00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,959 Speaker 1: they were all a dressed like little dudes were little 621 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 1: soldiers there, little dudes to start with. But you put them, 622 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,200 Speaker 1: you can put them in little skirts and stuff. If 623 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:10,479 Speaker 1: it's Aunt Jane, you're imaginative, you can. If you're not, 624 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,640 Speaker 1: you just dress what you have. I guess that's fair. 625 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 1: Pants are really hard to make, though, just like, yeah, 626 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,280 Speaker 1: I would say it's score to be easier, way easier. 627 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,520 Speaker 1: I'm just saying I understand just saying, especially at that size, 628 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 1: I worked with a bunch of non creatives. Trust me, 629 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:29,480 Speaker 1: things where Okay, So, yeah, do you guys have favorite theories? 630 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:33,319 Speaker 1: I know yours. I'm still gonna go with the troop 631 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:37,400 Speaker 1: of Oh yeah, I know, I know. Um No, I 632 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,880 Speaker 1: have no favorite theories in this one. I have no 633 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,600 Speaker 1: opinion whatsoever. Yeah, I don't really, I don't care about 634 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,279 Speaker 1: this car at all. Well, sorry it's a little short this, 635 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 1: but now I guess I do have one opinion, which 636 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,880 Speaker 1: is that the typical name that is given to this 637 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,759 Speaker 1: mystery is the Arthur Seat murder Dolls. And I think 638 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 1: that's a really cool name. It is. Yeah, I mean, 639 00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,759 Speaker 1: that's true, so cool. But the yeah, the name is, 640 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:04,759 Speaker 1: and that's the tie to the Burke and Hairy situation. Yeah, 641 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 1: murder dolls. There's just something so cool and creepy about that. 642 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:09,640 Speaker 1: But but yeah, I mean, there's there's really no tie 643 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:15,160 Speaker 1: and other than the number seventeen. So if you want 644 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,000 Speaker 1: to find out how I came up with that weird 645 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,360 Speaker 1: giant number, I do you will, we'll talk about it afterwards. 646 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,920 Speaker 1: Or you have a theory about what the Arthur Seat 647 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,719 Speaker 1: murder Dolls might be or just the Arthur seat dolls 648 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:30,400 Speaker 1: or whatever. You can email us Thinking Sideways Podcast at 649 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:35,279 Speaker 1: gmail dot com. Uh, you are probably not listening to 650 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 1: us on the website, but you can listen to us 651 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:43,320 Speaker 1: on the website. That website is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. 652 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,720 Speaker 1: There are some of my research links up there as well, 653 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,359 Speaker 1: and on that as well, you can find the link 654 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:54,120 Speaker 1: to buy merch if you want. We got it. You 655 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,280 Speaker 1: guys were asking for it, so we did it because 656 00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 1: we love you. Finally, finally we have phasers and what 657 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:03,040 Speaker 1: else do we Yeah? We have rocket launchers. Yeah, yeah, 658 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 1: a couple of airplanes. I don't know what kind they are. 659 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,600 Speaker 1: You guys know that they're expensive, but if you want 660 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:11,759 Speaker 1: something a little cheaper, we also have t shirts and 661 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 1: mugs and phone cases, which I am buying one of. 662 00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:22,040 Speaker 1: That's right, I have to buy my own merch for free. Nope, 663 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,880 Speaker 1: find us or you probably you could be streaming us 664 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 1: also almost anywhere. You are probably listening to us on 665 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,800 Speaker 1: iTunes though. If you do that, subscribe if you haven't already, 666 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:35,960 Speaker 1: and leave us a comment in a rating. Those are awesome. 667 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:37,840 Speaker 1: It's how other people find us, and I know you 668 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,360 Speaker 1: want other people to find us. You can't find us 669 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,879 Speaker 1: on Facebook. We have a group and a page which 670 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,719 Speaker 1: has been uber busy yep, like us, friend us, friend us, 671 00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:52,399 Speaker 1: find us, find us, friend us, like us, and then 672 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:57,279 Speaker 1: tweet us, and then and then tweet us thinking sideways, 673 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:02,160 Speaker 1: no podcast or anything like that. That. Okay, we tweet sometimes. 674 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,480 Speaker 1: Actually we use that Twitter thing every once in a while, 675 00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,439 Speaker 1: and I think that's it. Usually we do the email 676 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:12,120 Speaker 1: at the end. That's why I'm confused about it. If 677 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,359 Speaker 1: I told you or not, Sorry, I missed that one up. 678 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:17,560 Speaker 1: They know where to find us. Ever, you guys know 679 00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:19,440 Speaker 1: where to find us. You're doing good at finding us. 680 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 1: So that is everything about dolls. Yeah, creepy dolls. This 681 00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 1: is why I never liked the movie Chucky, because dolls 682 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:36,319 Speaker 1: are creepy. They are. No, No, I didn't watch them, 683 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,480 Speaker 1: but do go watch Breaking Hair. It's fun. It's a 684 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:43,359 Speaker 1: fun movie. It's Simon Peg. It's totally fun. I gotta say, 685 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,440 Speaker 1: if you can, if you can make a comedy out 686 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:49,680 Speaker 1: of murder, that's awesome. Oh, it's totally funny and weird, 687 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,319 Speaker 1: Simon Peg. Yeah, okay, I gotta see it. Yeah. And 688 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: by the way, speaking to Simon Peg, if you have 689 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,520 Speaker 1: not seen Sean of the Dead, well, you better go 690 00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:00,160 Speaker 1: see it. Any of the Cornetto trilogy all right by. 691 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:14,920 Speaker 1: You know what's funny is if anybody knows this story. 692 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,160 Speaker 1: Every time I read about Broken Hair, I have a 693 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:23,279 Speaker 1: really hard time not visualizing Simon Peg, because there's that 694 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:26,600 Speaker 1: that movies five years old. Five years ago, they made 695 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,400 Speaker 1: a Broken Hair and he was in it. And every 696 00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,200 Speaker 1: time I read this, I see his face. I cannot 697 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:34,319 Speaker 1: help it sounds like a personal problem. I did not 698 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,880 Speaker 1: see that movie. They actually made a movie about Broken Hair. 699 00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:39,200 Speaker 1: It's a bit of a comedy. I didn't make a 700 00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:43,240 Speaker 1: comedy out of this story, and it's Simon Peg.