Speaker 1: It's eleven nine pm at Sinnanon and you're listening to Nightcall. Hello,
Speaker 1: and welcome back to Night Call, a call in show
Speaker 1: for our dystopian reality. I am Tess Lynch and with
Speaker 1: me are Molly Lambert and Emily Oshida. Hey guys, Hello,
Speaker 1: And later in the show we're going to be joined
Speaker 1: by Robert Evans, hosts of Behind the Bastards, um and
Speaker 1: citizen journalists to tell us uh all about being a
Speaker 1: live streamer in these crazy times. We thought we would
Speaker 1: jump in real quick. With an email from Meg, she writes, Hello, Nightcall.
Speaker 1: Wasn't sure if you've seen the online petition going around
Speaker 1: demanding that Splash Mountain be re themed to Princess and
Speaker 1: the Frog. I work in the theme park industry here
Speaker 1: in Orlando, and usually when updating a classic ride comes up,
Speaker 1: there are many decries from theme park enthusiasts and Disney
Speaker 1: purists that this is a racing history and the ride
Speaker 1: should be used as a teaching moment. Same argument came
Speaker 1: up with the retheming of the Bride Auction scene and
Speaker 1: Pirates of the Caribbean. While I agree with what Karina
Speaker 1: Longworth recently tweeted about films like Song of the South
Speaker 1: and Gone with the Wind, where de circulating these films
Speaker 1: can turn them into fetish objects. I'm not sure this
Speaker 1: applies to theme park rides. While it's nice to think
Speaker 1: that parents would use problematic aspects of rides as a
Speaker 1: teaching moment for their children, I believe it's not the case.
Speaker 1: The majority of the time, theme park rides feature simple
Speaker 1: story narratives that can be easily consumed in less than
Speaker 1: ten minutes. And while I appreciate the museum s aspects
Speaker 1: of some Disney attractions, mostly at Epcot or the Everest
Speaker 1: Que and the Animal Kingdom, the reality is people don't
Speaker 1: linger and ponder these galleries and theme parks. They rush
Speaker 1: past them as it is another box to be checked
Speaker 1: on the to do list of things to cram in
Speaker 1: on their vacation. I feel that theme park rides are
Speaker 1: more like Confederate statues in that it subconsciously communicates the
Speaker 1: kind of ideas, stories, morals of history we uphold as
Speaker 1: worthy of celebration. Would love to hear your thoughts. Thank
Speaker 1: you for keeping me company every week. Just watched Eyes
Speaker 1: Without a Phase last week and loved it. Thank you, Meg.
Speaker 1: What do you guys think thanks Meg, Yeah, this is great.
Speaker 1: I mean I my first thought in reading this email
Speaker 1: was just like okay, like like yes, a ride that
Speaker 1: was created in nineteen to celebrate Song of the South,
Speaker 1: which is like not even available to like watch legally,
Speaker 1: is insane and it's insane that that was made in
Speaker 1: if you go to Great Moments with Mr Lincoln, that's
Speaker 1: like kind of the shadow most offensive thing in Disneyland,
Speaker 1: and it's like that's one of those things. It's truly
Speaker 1: like embraced by the Disneyland heads where they're like, you
Speaker 1: can't mess with that. That's classic Disneyland. But it's so
Speaker 1: fucked up it's crazy. I feel like there are well
Speaker 1: that's the thing too, It's like there are other even
Speaker 1: more funked up rides still in Disneyland. Um, the Jungle
Speaker 1: Cruise is more openly racist than Splash Mountain because Splash
Speaker 1: Mountain is like so divorced from the source material that
Speaker 1: unless you knew it was a Song of the South ride,
Speaker 1: you would never know that. Yeah. I mean we we
Speaker 1: talked about this when we had Karina on before she
Speaker 1: did her Song of the South series on You must
Speaker 1: be Remember this, which is great, highly recommended if you
Speaker 1: haven't listened to that yet. But uh, because it is
Speaker 1: like for me, a nineties kid or whatever. I went
Speaker 1: on Splash Mountain, you know, during our vacation to California
Speaker 1: when I was like five, and there was songs from
Speaker 1: Song of the South on Disney sing along tapes, and
Speaker 1: there's like, weirdly the thing lives on in a way.
Speaker 1: I can't. I think that they're just different kinds of insidious.
Speaker 1: That's more just like we're not going to let this go,
Speaker 1: even though we're gonna like make the source material mysteriously unavailable,
Speaker 1: but we're going to like honor it in quotes somehow. Well,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of like Antebellum South fetishization and Disney
Speaker 1: also because that's like Waltz whole bit, you know, So
Speaker 1: I think it's very baked into all theme parks, uh,
Speaker 1: that kind of imperialism. Yeah, I mean there's like kind
Speaker 1: of that Antebellum architecture in a lot of Like there's
Speaker 1: a theme park I grew up going to a lot
Speaker 1: in Kansas City called Worlds of Fun. I'm sure that
Speaker 1: people who listened from Kansas City will have thoughts about
Speaker 1: World of Fun if they've been there, but I feel
Speaker 1: like there's a lot of that was like an international
Speaker 1: themed one, but I swear that there was like a
Speaker 1: bunch of like the genteel Little South type stuff in
Speaker 1: there too, just because it's like Kansas. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: would say, like I'm all for I don't think that
Speaker 1: UM theme parks should necessarily be treated as museums. And
Speaker 1: like Disneyland wanted to make a museum where they like
Speaker 1: put their shuttered stuff, I think that would actually be
Speaker 1: really valuable. But they will never do anything that's that
Speaker 1: self reflexive or like self critical, right. For sure, they
Speaker 1: don't want us to talk about it, but definitely some
Speaker 1: of like there are just other little weird racist easter
Speaker 1: eggs all over Disneyland because they like never get rid
Speaker 1: of anything too. So there was like a Native American
Speaker 1: village that took up most of Frontier Land when it opened. Um.
Speaker 1: But they're like animatronics from that on the Mark Twain Cruise.
Speaker 1: Like I had never actually gone around the river until
Speaker 1: I did once, and I was like, oh, there's all
Speaker 1: these like repurposed Native American animatronics that I did not know.
Speaker 1: We're still in Disneyland, um, but it's that Disney. It's that,
Speaker 1: like Karina talks about on her podcast, is that sort
Speaker 1: of paternalists, Like, here's history from the point of view
Speaker 1: of a funked up, old racist white guy telling you
Speaker 1: what history was. Like. I agree with what you guys
Speaker 1: are saying, but I do have one question about Meg's email,
Speaker 1: which is why why would the Princess and the Frog
Speaker 1: be the reinvent perfect. It's not interesting to me, it's
Speaker 1: not compelling. I really liked the the Moanna idea, and
Speaker 1: I was into the Utopia idea. Zutopia should be an
Speaker 1: entire land. Anyway, Here's why it has to be The
Speaker 1: Princess and the Frog Because it's next to New Orleans Square.
Speaker 1: That whole area is already New Orleans themed. The Haunted Mansion,
Speaker 1: the little fake Bourbon Street area, and the Pirates, the
Speaker 1: Blue balou ball Um, all that stuff is kind of
Speaker 1: New Orleans themed. And then you go over to like
Speaker 1: Critter Country, it's more just like ambiguously Southern themed, but
Speaker 1: Princess and the Frog is New Orleans. Critter Country is
Speaker 1: like Appalachia and and New Orleans is more of the South.
Speaker 1: It's like you got a brief tour eastern United States
Speaker 1: between Main Street, USA and there. But is there enough
Speaker 1: like water in The Princess and the Frog. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: takes places I don't remember anything about. Also, the good
Speaker 1: thing about Princess and the Frog, like and I can't
Speaker 1: remember from the last time I went to Disneyland how
Speaker 1: much of a presence it has in in New Orleans
Speaker 1: and the New Orleans part of the park piece. If
Speaker 1: it doesn't, that's also fucked up because it felt like
Speaker 1: it was Taylor made to be slotted into that part
Speaker 1: of the Disney Parks experience because it's like very like
Speaker 1: like voodoo and like I don't know, like there's tons
Speaker 1: of music and it's it's it's all like very the
Speaker 1: villain from that movie who was a great villain. Um
Speaker 1: he appears in the Halloween Parade that they just announced
Speaker 1: they are not doing this year because of COVID oh um.
Speaker 1: But I did just also get an ad for Orlando
Speaker 1: for um Universal Orlando reopening, like one second before we
Speaker 1: started recording, and it was an ad that showed them
Speaker 1: like wiping down escalators and for the whole family. I
Speaker 1: roll my eyes so hard when we talk about that
Speaker 1: stuff on this podcast. I feel like it's audible. I've
Speaker 1: been getting a lot of ads for casinos and in
Speaker 1: the same vein of like, it's been too long, it's
Speaker 1: been too long. It has it has to be Princess
Speaker 1: and the Frog because it's black, the first black princess
Speaker 1: in Disney history. Yeah, it's only right. I had no
Speaker 1: idea the Princess. I saw The Princess and the Frog
Speaker 1: and I was like, I don't have like any it
Speaker 1: was here. It was like, it's got like it's very
Speaker 1: musically driven, music driven, as I recall, I think I
Speaker 1: saw it like whenever it came out, which makes it
Speaker 1: good for um Splash Mountain because Splash Mountain ends with
Speaker 1: like a big kind of musical performance, so it's like
Speaker 1: very easy to drop in all the animatronics. Mountain already
Speaker 1: has a river boat, Like there's just a lot of
Speaker 1: things you could easily adapt New Orleans. The people. The
Speaker 1: thing that people really didn't like about The Princess and
Speaker 1: the Frog is that it gives you this black princess
Speaker 1: Tiana and then it turns her into a frog for
Speaker 1: the whole movie. Oh shit, this is the t I'm
Speaker 1: sorry I shouldn't say ship and then talk about the
Speaker 1: children's movie. It's like I'm conditioned to correct myself there.
Speaker 1: But I I know I have a Tiana fan in
Speaker 1: my house, but we have never watched. But now that
Speaker 1: I guess we have Disney plus we can. I was
Speaker 1: thinking it was like an old tiny thing I love.
Speaker 1: At this point, you could just be a fan of
Speaker 1: Tiana and never have having seen the Princess and the Frog,
Speaker 1: because that's just like Disney. Princesses is its whole separate
Speaker 1: like machine. It's it's weird, the like weird sieve of information.
Speaker 1: It's the same with L O L Surprise dolls, like
Speaker 1: I I don't know what they are, but I can
Speaker 1: recognize them. There was an L L Surprise controversy. The
Speaker 1: L L Surprise guy just got canceled because he ripped
Speaker 1: off L Surprise sounds like something that was like destined
Speaker 1: to get canceled canceled. It's like a big ball full
Speaker 1: of toys. I's that's the surprise. It's like a plastic
Speaker 1: ball and you open it is full of toys, but
Speaker 1: the dolls inside. There was a controversy too, But it's
Speaker 1: maybe I'm mixing it up, but I think that in
Speaker 1: a parenting group that I'm in there was a controversy
Speaker 1: where the L O L Surprise dolls were like dressed
Speaker 1: very like as if they had just come out of
Speaker 1: like a sex dungeon or something, and it was like,
Speaker 1: l O Surprise, you don't get to choose which dolls
Speaker 1: you get, and then it didn't really go well, but
Speaker 1: I'll fact check this, okay. So L Surprise introduced a
Speaker 1: doll called the Rainbow Raver that is an exact like
Speaker 1: replica of this girl who's an influencer whose name is
Speaker 1: Amina Mucciolo who uh Brat's and Mattel I think also
Speaker 1: she's been ripped off before. She but basically they made
Speaker 1: a doll of her. She's like her. Her whole thing
Speaker 1: is like Rainbow Raver and she has like blue hair
Speaker 1: with like if you look at the doll and you
Speaker 1: look at her, you're like, yes, this is a huge
Speaker 1: This is definitely like a rip off of this specific person.
Speaker 1: So she called them out on it online and then
Speaker 1: the guy who is the CEO of L O L
Speaker 1: Surprise like tweeted a bunch of racist ship back at her,
Speaker 1: and everybody was like, hey, you know this is public
Speaker 1: and we can all see you, right, So geez Louise,
Speaker 1: so um, he was like denied all culpability and said
Speaker 1: some racist stuff to her. So a little surprise canceled?
Speaker 1: Can cancel? Yeah? You canceled? What Disneyland rides? Would you guys?
Speaker 1: Re theme? And how? Oh man, I'm trying to think
Speaker 1: of ones I don't well, I've this is just a
Speaker 1: personal preference. I really don't like the Teacups ride at
Speaker 1: this point. I've noticed at some point I becoming dizzy
Speaker 1: was like the worst experience for me and I I
Speaker 1: got on the Teacups last time and I almost had
Speaker 1: to like emergency get off and spew because I just
Speaker 1: couldn't deal with the dizzy. So I'm like, is there
Speaker 1: a wit and and the Dumbo rides? It's like the
Speaker 1: like ones that I loved as a child. Maybe I
Speaker 1: just want other children to not experience the joy I had,
Speaker 1: And probably Teacups are one of the few things that
Speaker 1: I feel like our iron clad like they're never like
Speaker 1: they're so timeless, and they're like I get so happy
Speaker 1: whenever I see the Teacups because the design is so
Speaker 1: perfect and they keep them so fun can clean that
Speaker 1: it's like they have to because people throw up on
Speaker 1: the time. I'm sure, like I'm sure they get wiped
Speaker 1: down even pre COVID like every hour, but like, um,
Speaker 1: and there's like nothing, there's there's no like creatures in it.
Speaker 1: Besides like the cheshire Cat. It's just like those cute
Speaker 1: little lanterns and stuff, and it's just like it's great.
Speaker 1: It's like peak Disney aesthetic. I feel like, right well,
Speaker 1: that's the thing, right is Disney is all about like
Speaker 1: wiping away the sharp corners of history to make it
Speaker 1: just like what was really going on at that tea party,
Speaker 1: just the antiseptic you know world, Yeah, I mean I would.
Speaker 1: I would. The one that bums me out the most
Speaker 1: right now, and it is a recently made over one
Speaker 1: is the um how they read it, leagues under the
Speaker 1: stay to be finding Nemo. Oh totally. I changed my
Speaker 1: answer to that. It's it's awful. It's so depressing too,
Speaker 1: because you can't help but remember when you like descend
Speaker 1: the stairs into the submarine how it used to be,
Speaker 1: and it's so like it's like who wants to watch
Speaker 1: a TV under water? That's what's funny. It's like we
Speaker 1: all care so much more about that than about a
Speaker 1: potential Splash Mountain retheeming like Splash Mountain. I'm like, even
Speaker 1: though we are all of the Splash Mountain generation, like
Speaker 1: make it the Princess and the Frog, I don't care,
Speaker 1: Like that would be better for the kids, but it
Speaker 1: still has to have the drop. It's the same ride.
Speaker 1: It's the same ride. Okay, okay, that was my my other.
Speaker 1: I was like, we have to think of something where
Speaker 1: there's like a wet drop the ride tech. It's like
Speaker 1: you can build in any narrative excuse for a wet drop,
Speaker 1: Like that's like the Jurassic Park ride thing. It's like,
Speaker 1: why when is there a wet drop in Jurassic Park
Speaker 1: and yet they managed to make one of the best
Speaker 1: wet drops of all time. I love saying wet drop?
Speaker 1: Did we just coin it? Have you guys seen all
Speaker 1: the Jurassic Park tweets that have been going around where
Speaker 1: everybody's like, remember when we thought it was unrealistic that
Speaker 1: they would reopen the park immediately after people died not
Speaker 1: but again they're like that was the plot hole. Everybody
Speaker 1: was like, why would they like just open it for
Speaker 1: people to come dine? Who would go to a park
Speaker 1: like that? It's like because of freedom, and everybody should
Speaker 1: be free to get eaten by a dinosaur if that's
Speaker 1: what they want, that's your own personal liberty. Should we
Speaker 1: take a break and come back with a nightcall, Let's
Speaker 1: do it, hig, nightcall. M. I'm not sure if this
Speaker 1: is going to work in terms of the math and
Speaker 1: the calendar of what podcasts reproduced versus now. But UM,
Speaker 1: in the most recent episode where we you guys talked
Speaker 1: about California Slitch, you mentioned centan On, which is a
Speaker 1: fascinating organization. UM. And they owned this luxury hotel in
Speaker 1: sam Bonica for a long time, but then in the
Speaker 1: late seventies they kind of collapsed after UM then there
Speaker 1: was a lot of criminal activity that they were involved in,
Speaker 1: including putting a rattlesnake in the mailbox of an attorney
Speaker 1: who had brought food against them. But anyway, there's all
Speaker 1: all kinds of weird CULTI stuff that they did that
Speaker 1: has had a lot of influence in UM behavior modification
Speaker 1: still to this day. UM. So, anyway, it might be
Speaker 1: something you guys would be interested into diving in deeper.
Speaker 1: Thanks by such a good night call. I am fascinated
Speaker 1: by sinn Anon. Yeah, UM, I didn't really like I
Speaker 1: didn't really. I think I had read about them before,
Speaker 1: and then I didn't put it together when you know
Speaker 1: they're credited at the end of California Split I because
Speaker 1: it's like one of those names like Lyn that just
Speaker 1: kind of sounds like nothing. Yeah, but yeah, super super
Speaker 1: interesting though. Yeah. I think I heard about Sinnanon from
Speaker 1: a friend of my mom's. Actually, he was like, have
Speaker 1: you ever looked into cinnnon? It's fascinating because I didn't know.
Speaker 1: I sort of knew I had heard the name before,
Speaker 1: but I think I got it confused with narcinon, which
Speaker 1: is the scientology narcotics anonymous. But well there's like there's Alanon,
Speaker 1: which is like friends of a There's just a lot
Speaker 1: of anons to Alanan's legit. Yeah, some of these are
Speaker 1: legit and some are not. Um Cinnanon was a It
Speaker 1: was a drug rehab program that was founded by this
Speaker 1: guy named Chuck detorck Um in nine eight in Santa Monica,
Speaker 1: And it started as rehab and then it kind of
Speaker 1: became more of like a probing, like who am I thing?
Speaker 1: And then it became a cult. Basically it always had.
Speaker 1: It was the whole thing was that it was the
Speaker 1: first drug rehab with no doctors involved. It was the
Speaker 1: first like self help drug rehab and Chuck Dettoric came
Speaker 1: up with it apparently after taking acid he was like,
Speaker 1: we should look inside. And it was founded like a
Speaker 1: few years before Lyn. But some of the group games
Speaker 1: and stuff are very similar to ESLYN. It's just like
Speaker 1: getting past your hang ups to like what's really underneath inside,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna get a lot of uncensored talking, like
Speaker 1: we're going to get right after it. We're going to
Speaker 1: talk about it again, just like very similar to acting exercises. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like the whole master thing. You a little walking back
Speaker 1: and forth between the walls and slapping them types of
Speaker 1: you know, oh for sure with your friends. So they
Speaker 1: played a game that was called The Game. That sounds
Speaker 1: very scary, where you like get people all up in
Speaker 1: their insecurities. Oh um, I used to play this in
Speaker 1: high school. Actually I did, like Total side by. There
Speaker 1: was a thing called the Game. Did you ever know
Speaker 1: about this around that time? That's just like the game.
Speaker 1: You're always playing the game until you think of the game,
Speaker 1: and then you've lost the game, and then you have
Speaker 1: to say I lost the game. It's one of those
Speaker 1: like kind of stonery high school things. But anyway, I've
Speaker 1: also done probably the other game as well, more familiar
Speaker 1: with the one where you like make a hand sign
Speaker 1: and try to get your friend to look at it,
Speaker 1: and then you're like you lost the game when they
Speaker 1: see when they do, oh, I don't know, you go
Speaker 1: like this but like down down by your knee and
Speaker 1: then you can see what I'm doing on a podcast
Speaker 1: in your mind. Okay, Well back to cynan On. It
Speaker 1: also became a church Molly you mentioned, and well they
Speaker 1: became they basically filed for church status. Um, they like
Speaker 1: incorporated into a company. It was like this guy had
Speaker 1: a storefront in Santa Monica and then he they moved
Speaker 1: into some old army barracks on the beach, and then
Speaker 1: they ended up make enough money to buy a hotel
Speaker 1: called the club Casa del Mar, which I think became
Speaker 1: Shutters maybe really yeah, And but they turned it into
Speaker 1: dorms and it was sort of like a commune as well.
Speaker 1: It was like anyone could join. You didn't have to
Speaker 1: be in recovery, um, but you had to go totally
Speaker 1: cold turkey off drugs and you had to cut off
Speaker 1: contact with everybody from the outside world for three months,
Speaker 1: which is very culty and after a few years. It
Speaker 1: was originally supposed to be a two year in patient
Speaker 1: program and then you get out, but at some point
Speaker 1: Chuck decided that there was no like, once you're an addict,
Speaker 1: you never really recover, so you can never really leave
Speaker 1: cinn and On. It's the Hotel California. So then it
Speaker 1: just kind of morphed into a cult. And they all
Speaker 1: shave their heads. Yeah, they shave their heads. They married, couples,
Speaker 1: had to break up, um, they gave men vass actomes
Speaker 1: and and coerced people into having abortion. It's just so crazy.
Speaker 1: So I know, like it you mentioned, uh that uh
Speaker 1: th h X eleven thirty eight George Lucas first feature
Speaker 1: used extras from it, but like that just makes it
Speaker 1: sound like it was based like th X eleven thirty
Speaker 1: eight was based on cineon, because that's what th h
Speaker 1: X eleven thirty Like, nobody can have sex and in it,
Speaker 1: and it's just like everybody sort of the androgynous drone. Well,
Speaker 1: I think people were experimenting with a lot of alternative
Speaker 1: living situations at the time. That's the thing is like
Speaker 1: Sinnnon was one of so many things that were happening
Speaker 1: in uh the sixties in the alternative line living space.
Speaker 1: I don't think people like batted it an eye at Cinnon, yeah,
Speaker 1: as much as we might right now. Well, there was
Speaker 1: so the anecdote about the snake in the mailbox, um
Speaker 1: is very interesting to me. There's an l a megum
Speaker 1: article about this by Hill L. Aaron, But it's basically
Speaker 1: there was like a journalist turned lawyer named Paul Morant's Yeah,
Speaker 1: I looked at his website a bunch because he yeah,
Speaker 1: he has a website too. Um. But he had sued
Speaker 1: sinning On On behalf of this woman who claimed that
Speaker 1: she had been kidnapped and tortured and brainwashed and a
Speaker 1: bunch of horrible stuff, and Morants won the lawsuits, so
Speaker 1: they got three thousand dollars. And then once he realized
Speaker 1: how horrible this group was, he started pressuring the Department
Speaker 1: of Public Health to shut them down. And then he
Speaker 1: started getting like scary retaliatory phone calls and threats from
Speaker 1: Sinnonon members. So he got really paranoid because I mean,
Speaker 1: much like people who speak out about scientology, it just
Speaker 1: sounded like it. It was very oppressive to him. Um,
Speaker 1: and one day he was like, I'm gonna stop thinking
Speaker 1: about this. I feel like I've just been so paranoid.
Speaker 1: And he was chilling out watching sports on TV and
Speaker 1: then he saw a weirdly shaped package slipped through the
Speaker 1: mail slot in his door, and when he went to
Speaker 1: grab it, it was a four and a half foot
Speaker 1: long rattlesnake that bit him on the hand, and the
Speaker 1: rattler on the tail had been moved so that it
Speaker 1: wouldn't make noise and alert him, which is the fucking
Speaker 1: scariest thing I've ever heard. Um, it's it's so bizarre.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's and it's weird. I would have thought
Speaker 1: that this would have been on our radar from day one,
Speaker 1: but I really hadn't heard of it until California split,
Speaker 1: and then I was like, what's this. Well, that's what's
Speaker 1: so funny about it was it was like right on
Speaker 1: the beach for so many years. It was like everybody
Speaker 1: knew about it because it was on the strand and
Speaker 1: you would see the synanon people like wandering around. It's
Speaker 1: just so weird to think about a time when Santa
Speaker 1: Monica had like anything that weird in it. I heard
Speaker 1: the worst story yesterday about Manhattan Beach from Kate Raft
Speaker 1: was posting about it, worse than the eyelash House. Yes,
Speaker 1: a rich white mom uh filed to hold a BLM March,
Speaker 1: but it was actually just a graduation march for her
Speaker 1: daughter and her friends. Yeah, and they didn't they have
Speaker 1: hula hoops. I heard about this. It was like, and
Speaker 1: then they could they could pretend like it was an
Speaker 1: exercise class if they got caught. Wait, so way did
Speaker 1: she She had to file because they wanted to have
Speaker 1: like a gathering of more than however many people. Yes,
Speaker 1: so she said they were having a BLM March, But
Speaker 1: then it was actually just like a rich white kid
Speaker 1: graduation party. Like we're we're in lays while we walked
Speaker 1: around in our graduation outfits. Manhattan Beach is so bizarre. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I think I feel like sent it on. You know,
Speaker 1: there's that the weird Rehab and Inherent Vice too is
Speaker 1: totally it feels like sent it on to me. Um.
Speaker 1: Thomas Pinchin lived in Manhattan Beach before it got so
Speaker 1: gentrified that nobody cool could live there. Um. Yeah, imagine
Speaker 1: living at the beach and it being weird and scuzzy
Speaker 1: again the dream, Yeah, I mean the the idea, like
Speaker 1: the proximity of of rehab to um two cults at
Speaker 1: that time, it just feels like this like perfect timing
Speaker 1: because it's like the first time that people have actually
Speaker 1: started to think about drug rehabilitation and like getting people
Speaker 1: like like aside from like a sanitarium or something super
Speaker 1: old school, like, people were actually trying to think about
Speaker 1: holistic ways of treating drug addiction. Right. In a way,
Speaker 1: these people invented like promises, right, they invented the beachside rehab,
Speaker 1: which is now like Malibu is completely overrun with these
Speaker 1: rich person rehabs. They take up like half the real estate. Um.
Speaker 1: It's interesting to think of that coming out as something
Speaker 1: as scuzzy and actually counterculture. As sent anon. I watched
Speaker 1: Spaceship Earth, which I recommend so much um because it's
Speaker 1: about the biosphere. But I had no idea. It was
Speaker 1: about how the biosphere came out of a commune and no,
Speaker 1: out of like a weird um into puntional community that
Speaker 1: is headed by a guy whose name is Dolphin Johnny
Speaker 1: nice um but you know, friends with Buckminster Fuller. Like
Speaker 1: it's all legit, but it's sort of the good version
Speaker 1: of this where everybody's like, yeah, nothing bad happened. We
Speaker 1: just sailed around the world on a ship we built ourselves.
Speaker 1: That's the dream. And they're like they're like also an
Speaker 1: experimental theater company of course really eventually. I mean that's
Speaker 1: why I'm like, like, I feel like the odds of
Speaker 1: of a rehab commune or something turning into an experimental
Speaker 1: theater company are just so high as becoming a cult.
Speaker 1: It's just we only hear about the cults um. One
Speaker 1: thing I did learn about cinnan On that I didn't
Speaker 1: know is that allegedly they morphed into the wilderness retreat
Speaker 1: rehab thing that super rich kids in l A do.
Speaker 1: Is that the one where you get snatched out of
Speaker 1: your bed in the middle of the night. Uh huh.
Speaker 1: It's a whole mini industry that's like for kids who
Speaker 1: do too many drugs, their parents pay to have them
Speaker 1: sent away to do like a yeah, like do like
Speaker 1: a experience type thing, like pretty much an escape room,
Speaker 1: like a turbo escape room, turbo escape room in the woods.
Speaker 1: It's like they leave you in the woods with materials
Speaker 1: and you have to like find your way back. Um.
Speaker 1: People have died on them. They have been kids who
Speaker 1: have died from heating. Expose a few years ago about
Speaker 1: these that was so hard to read. It's so cruel.
Speaker 1: I think I was totally like, who runs these and
Speaker 1: finding out it's like that's what sinnan on turned into
Speaker 1: creepy but also makes sense. Terrible boo cancel sinning on too. Well, guys,
Speaker 1: should we take a break before we have our guest
Speaker 1: Robert Evans join us. Yeah, let's let's do it. Welcome
Speaker 1: back Tonight Call. We are thrilled to be joined today
Speaker 1: by our guest, Robert Evans, the only Robert Evans. Uh.
Speaker 1: Robert is the host of Behind the Bastards, also on
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio, and Behind the Police, the new spinoff.
Speaker 1: He's also the author of a Brief History of Vice
Speaker 1: and is an investigative journalist at Bellancat. Welcome Robert tonight Call.
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. We've all been on Behind
Speaker 1: the Bastards at certain points. So now you're you're in
Speaker 1: our archer. You're on the other side of the church
Speaker 1: ship just got reciprocal. We wanted to talk to you
Speaker 1: a little bit today about sort of the citizen journalism
Speaker 1: aspect of the recent protests and uprising, and then take
Speaker 1: some listener questions. Yeah, that are specifically for our guest, Robert.
Speaker 1: We got a ton of good ones too, so you
Speaker 1: better have all the answers. Oh boy, okay, well I'll
Speaker 1: do my how to defeat fascism, etcetera. Um, we're going
Speaker 1: to figure that out. Robert. You've been reporting live from
Speaker 1: the Pacific Northwest during the past month, uh and before that,
Speaker 1: and you are very much on the front lines of
Speaker 1: the stuff, both online and and offline. So we just
Speaker 1: wanted to talk to you a little bit about your
Speaker 1: experiences doing that. Yeah, you know, I got bored during
Speaker 1: the lockdown of you know, exercising in my front yard
Speaker 1: and going on jugs, so like dodging police munitions was
Speaker 1: a nice change in calistinics for a couple of weeks.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it was mostly just like keeping my heart
Speaker 1: rate up sort of thing, you know, just making sure
Speaker 1: you're still in shape. Yeah, yeah, still ready for the
Speaker 1: next track. Meat. Think of a riot line armed with
Speaker 1: grenade launchers as a kind of gym. Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean you were the person I saw reporting about some
Speaker 1: of the stuff that has now been reported in the mainstream,
Speaker 1: specifically the boogaloo stuff. You were the first person I
Speaker 1: saw tweeting about that and saying Jason Wilson and I
Speaker 1: have the Guardian put together big article and the yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: and that was you know, I just noticed a lot
Speaker 1: um and I've noticed this with all the you know,
Speaker 1: uprisings up the past few years, that there is just
Speaker 1: such a huge divide between the way it's reported online
Speaker 1: and the way it's reported on television and in newspapers
Speaker 1: that it feels like generationally we're getting a completely different
Speaker 1: sets of news yeah yeah, and completely different sets of
Speaker 1: realities and um on the right, a lesser extent on
Speaker 1: the left, but on the right a really organized ecosystem
Speaker 1: dedicated to making sure that there are two fundamentally separate realities.
Speaker 1: And that is why one chunk of the country believes Antifa,
Speaker 1: who has never been tied to a single murder, um
Speaker 1: is a terrorist organist station while the terror the domestic
Speaker 1: terrorist responsible for the domestic terror attacks over the last
Speaker 1: six months, UM, which are right wing domestic terrorists, aren't
Speaker 1: a problem. Um Like, it's because the world they live
Speaker 1: in is fundamentally different. Because there was a concerted media
Speaker 1: effort to make sure that that was the case. How
Speaker 1: culpable is Mark Zuckerberg for all of this? Uh, pretty culpable.
Speaker 1: Not for the I mean, obviously, the actual problem with
Speaker 1: like siloing off the right wing to a separate reality
Speaker 1: started way before Mark Zuckerberg, and I don't think he
Speaker 1: was an intentional part of that. I think the thing
Speaker 1: that Mark Zuckerberg deserves blame blame for his Facebook developed
Speaker 1: a system whereby they would recommend Facebook groups to people
Speaker 1: which were closed and siloed off from the rest of
Speaker 1: the world and acted as like radicalization chambers for people.
Speaker 1: And most of the time when people joined even like
Speaker 1: particularly the groups for Facebook's internal numbers suggested that six
Speaker 1: of the time when people joined the Facebook group for
Speaker 1: an extremist organization like the kkkor the prad Boys, sixty
Speaker 1: or percent of the time it was because Facebook's algorithm
Speaker 1: had recommended that group to them. Um, and Zuckerberg was
Speaker 1: one of a number of people at Facebook who were like,
Speaker 1: this isn't a problem. Let's keep doing it. It It makes
Speaker 1: this money, and like that's you know. We can also
Speaker 1: talk about the ethnic cleansing. Facebook is partly culpable in,
Speaker 1: but there's a long list of reasons they suck. It's
Speaker 1: really ironic, I think because like I feel like Facebook's
Speaker 1: uh in general, I mean everybody's still on Facebook, like
Speaker 1: it's the most mainstream thing in the world, but like
Speaker 1: it did have a dip in public trust, I feel
Speaker 1: like in the last couple of years, or at least
Speaker 1: since Cambridge Analytica. But then they like poured all this
Speaker 1: money into advertising in the last year or so, and
Speaker 1: it's all been based on groups. Like all of their
Speaker 1: advertising campaigns have been like Facebook groups is the reason
Speaker 1: to be on Facebook, And it's just like but that's
Speaker 1: actually one of the most problematic parts of it right now. Um,
Speaker 1: they just make it seem like it's all like cat
Speaker 1: enthusiasts and stuff. Yes, well now it's like just clueless
Speaker 1: suburban people is their audience, right, That's like a lot
Speaker 1: of these websites they are just it's like what local
Speaker 1: news used to do, where it just like exists to
Speaker 1: stoke fear. Yeah, you're Onto is a very nice person
Speaker 1: and thinks Black Lives Matter is planning to break into
Speaker 1: her house and and do violence to her because she's white.
Speaker 1: Like it's because like like that's the target audience for Facebook. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and like still refers to what's been going on now
Speaker 1: for three weeks as the riots. Like, Yes, I mean
Speaker 1: I saw some metric that was, like the top ten
Speaker 1: posts on Facebook over the past few weeks, and it
Speaker 1: is all like Ben Shapiro and trauma. And that's consistent too.
Speaker 1: I mean, that isn't that kind of usually the top
Speaker 1: ten trending topics on Facebook. There's a big right wing contingent,
Speaker 1: But it's also weird. Do you guys notice that pretty
Speaker 1: recently on Instagram? I don't think it was always there
Speaker 1: at the bottom it says like brought to you by Facebook. Oh,
Speaker 1: Zuckerberg insisted on that person. But I mean that's kind
Speaker 1: like it's you know, it's hard to like avoid all
Speaker 1: of those. Do we have to divest from all these
Speaker 1: social media companies? It is? It is not dissimilar from like,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm I'm one of those people who
Speaker 1: has has been suggesting, you know, as as cautiously as
Speaker 1: I can, folks who have the have the mental space
Speaker 1: and feel safe, you know, mentally owning a firearm should
Speaker 1: maybe consider it, because it's not great that those are
Speaker 1: all concentrated in the hands of one group of very
Speaker 1: hostile people right now. UM, And there are some problematic
Speaker 1: aspects of purchasing firearms because not all firearms companies, but
Speaker 1: an awful lot of them are part of this horrible
Speaker 1: culture war we're in because of the kind of ads
Speaker 1: that they support in the organizations that they donate money to. UM.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, when someone is trying to
Speaker 1: kill you with a gun, there's no nothing replaces having
Speaker 1: a gun. And in the same way, when you are
Speaker 1: trying to impact the culture and change it and shift
Speaker 1: it in more positive directions, there's really no nothing that
Speaker 1: replaces Twitter and Facebook an instagram. Right, we're admitting Twitter
Speaker 1: as a gun, right, absolutely? I buy into this. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Twitter and Facebook are both guns. Facebook is a gun
Speaker 1: that regularly explodes in your hand, and being a blue
Speaker 1: check as bad as having a license. Yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know how how how deep
Speaker 1: I want to get into the comparison. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think Twitter and Facebook both have the potential to kill
Speaker 1: a lot more people than are fifteens do. That's about
Speaker 1: three people a year in the United States. And um,
Speaker 1: I think there's actually very likely that Facebook kills more
Speaker 1: people a year already than at I just have to
Speaker 1: be the voice on the podcast that says I don't
Speaker 1: think people should get guns. I respect what you're saying completely,
Speaker 1: but I also, I mean, so many people are killed
Speaker 1: by their own guns that I don't know. I'm not
Speaker 1: there yet, but it's a long conversation that has and
Speaker 1: I don't feel the need to like to to argue
Speaker 1: the point as um. But yeah, we all agree who
Speaker 1: shouldn't have guns, and then those are the people who
Speaker 1: tend to have the most guns. That's true, yes, and
Speaker 1: that includes the police, right, That is one of the problems.
Speaker 1: So we wanted to talk about like citizen journalism in general,
Speaker 1: which is taking place on all these platforms like taking
Speaker 1: place on Facebook Live and Instagram and Twitter, um. And
Speaker 1: I mean I've mostly just been aware of it because
Speaker 1: I haven't been super plugged into it until like recent years.
Speaker 1: Like it really feels like it's a completely different animal
Speaker 1: now that you have these live streaming capabilities that are
Speaker 1: on all these sites. Like I mean I remember like
Speaker 1: the first periscope I ever watched and it being like, oh,
Speaker 1: is this the future of how we're going to get information?
Speaker 1: And um, has that been, Like, are there are there
Speaker 1: pluses and minuses to that aside from being on the
Speaker 1: on these platforms that are inherently problematic. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: one of the one of the minuses to kind of
Speaker 1: live streaming citizen journalism. I think that is always on
Speaker 1: my mind when I'm I'm working these events, is that, um,
Speaker 1: it's not impossible that your footage will catch someone committing
Speaker 1: something that is against the law um, but not necessarily
Speaker 1: a moral um, and that they will get in legal
Speaker 1: trouble and maybe even go to jail as a result
Speaker 1: of your recording. Now, So that's something that's always in
Speaker 1: my mind. It's part of why I try not to
Speaker 1: to to film, and have increasingly throughout my time in
Speaker 1: the streets tried to avoid filming protesters. Um, sometimes it's necessary,
Speaker 1: like when protesters clash with police and police use violence
Speaker 1: on them, you have to record protesters and police. And
Speaker 1: I do think that the kind of risks for the
Speaker 1: protesters are outweighed by the massive public interest value of
Speaker 1: knowing what the police are doing when they're physically violent
Speaker 1: with protesters. I think that even the the overall safety
Speaker 1: benefit to the protesters is higher. Although it's not without
Speaker 1: a risk. That is something you have to consider when
Speaker 1: you're doing this sort of work. Um, And so you
Speaker 1: have to act consciously to minimize the damage that your
Speaker 1: your reporting could do and maximize the security that it
Speaker 1: will add to the public, because at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, journalism is fundamentally about, um, comforting the afflicted
Speaker 1: and afflicting the comfortable, and you don't want to afflict
Speaker 1: the already afflicted. Yeah. Now, I feel like there's been
Speaker 1: so much more awareness, especially in this most recent wave
Speaker 1: of protests and activism, of of really being aware of
Speaker 1: Nazi like not showing protesters space with people who are
Speaker 1: doing dandalism or anything like that. I feel like people
Speaker 1: have really really gotten that message, especially since so many
Speaker 1: people who were involved in the Ferguson protests and other
Speaker 1: protests and after, you know, since since then have been
Speaker 1: you know, suddenly murdered mysteriously or wound up dead, like
Speaker 1: there's a real threat there. Um. And it's not always
Speaker 1: just getting arrested, you know, it's lots of other stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I definitely noticed this time also just because the coverage,
Speaker 1: especially in l A, was so out of tune with
Speaker 1: what was actually happened ing that it was such a
Speaker 1: different world on Twitter than it was in the l
Speaker 1: A Times, for example, which is the only newspaper left
Speaker 1: in l A. Really so um just there was a
Speaker 1: lot of viral videos of police brutality and of police
Speaker 1: assaulting protesters that we're all taken by amateurs, you know,
Speaker 1: or citizen journalists, um And it took a few days
Speaker 1: for those to reach sort of your average newspaper reader,
Speaker 1: you know. I sent my parents a few clips of
Speaker 1: things to be like, here's what's going around with people
Speaker 1: that I know that you know, shows the police are
Speaker 1: tear gassing people even if they say they aren't. There
Speaker 1: was a clip um of in Van nuys when Van
Speaker 1: nuys Um was being looted there was some shop owners
Speaker 1: who called the cops and when the cops arrived, they
Speaker 1: tried to arrest the shop owners because they were black.
Speaker 1: That was on like the local news. That was like
Speaker 1: on the Fox of Philly. It that wasn't even on
Speaker 1: like Unicorn riot. That was somebody because the reporter was
Speaker 1: flagging down the cops right like once it started happening.
Speaker 1: They were just sending people to kind of like capture
Speaker 1: it on the scene and then you would see just
Speaker 1: there were some people who were just completely still trying
Speaker 1: to be in denial even though it was happening, like
Speaker 1: literally right in front of them, you know, who were
Speaker 1: like I just got tear gased. But like I'm sure
Speaker 1: the protesters through a water bottle or something. Yes, well,
Speaker 1: you know, a salt water bottles are really danger to
Speaker 1: police officers. You know. One thing I do think about
Speaker 1: a lot is the continuum of force. And the continuum
Speaker 1: of force is sort of when you're thinking about what
Speaker 1: is legally allowed in self defense, um, what you can
Speaker 1: do in response to someone else's aggression. Because I carry
Speaker 1: a gun pretty much every day in my life. I
Speaker 1: was actually in a situation in the streets recently where
Speaker 1: a young like right wing counter protester like pulled a
Speaker 1: machette and was like threatening marchers with it, and there
Speaker 1: was like and it was the situation where I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: she's five six ft away, she's not stabbing anybody. What
Speaker 1: is the point at which I'll have to shoot her? Um?
Speaker 1: Because there was a point if she had if she
Speaker 1: had attempted distab people to death, that would have been
Speaker 1: my moral obligation. Um. And it's because lethal force does
Speaker 1: justify the use of lethal force. And so when I
Speaker 1: think about the continuum of force, I think about what
Speaker 1: are the police doing in response to what? And usually
Speaker 1: it is someone chucks water bottles and the police fire
Speaker 1: grenades wildly into a crowd. And were I to respond
Speaker 1: in a similar way to like say, somebody were to
Speaker 1: throw a water bottle at me and I were to
Speaker 1: shoot them or stab them or even punch them, I
Speaker 1: would go to jail. And I should go to jail
Speaker 1: for that, because that would be a wild escalation of force. Right. Well,
Speaker 1: there's there's also like there's no consequences in place. So
Speaker 1: you've you know, we've seen this happening in every city
Speaker 1: that people are like, Oh, it turns out that all
Speaker 1: of the district attorneys are like in the pockets of
Speaker 1: these police unions, and that's why they're not prosecuting any
Speaker 1: of these killer cops. And that's why the killer cops
Speaker 1: have no fear of always escalating in every situation. But
Speaker 1: it was sort of amazing to see, like the cops
Speaker 1: are accused of not de escalating enough, and everybody, just
Speaker 1: like every police force in the country immediately just like
Speaker 1: escalated to military vehicles and yeah, just demonstrating the point, right.
Speaker 1: And even you know, people talk about militarized police, if
Speaker 1: they were militarized in the way that our own military is,
Speaker 1: we might be seeing less violence from them. Because while
Speaker 1: our military has done some really fucked up ship in
Speaker 1: Iraq and Afghanistan, I know a lot of guys who
Speaker 1: were over there and who would have who would deal
Speaker 1: with stuff like kids, you know, slingshotting rocks at them,
Speaker 1: and they weren't allowed to shoot those kids because that
Speaker 1: would be a violation of their rules of engagement. I
Speaker 1: think I think all of these people think they're exercising
Speaker 1: restraint by like just shooting people in the face with
Speaker 1: rubber bullets instead of like shooting them, you know. And
Speaker 1: then you even saw like when Joe Biden was like, oh,
Speaker 1: just shoot them in the legs. That's not it just
Speaker 1: don't don't shoot them. And I mean, you know, people
Speaker 1: have arteries in their legs, Joe. But it has it
Speaker 1: does feel like the veil has been pulled off for
Speaker 1: a lot of people who maybe otherwise did trust in
Speaker 1: the police or didn't think about the way the police
Speaker 1: act around communities of color, and you know, in places
Speaker 1: of poverty, Uh, it feels like a lot of those
Speaker 1: people are like, oh, I cannot deny that. Well, this
Speaker 1: is a question I have actually because I do. I
Speaker 1: think that to a certain degree and in another way,
Speaker 1: like you're talking about, you know, these levels of force.
Speaker 1: And one thing I noticed just from being out at
Speaker 1: protests like not not in violent situations. Although I was
Speaker 1: like kind of in on the Crazy Day and Fairfax
Speaker 1: in l A. Down here, Um, I was there kind
Speaker 1: of right before that really started to get um bad.
Speaker 1: I kind of left the scene. But one thing I noticed,
Speaker 1: especially between that and then later there were a bunch
Speaker 1: of car protests in l A. And I was just
Speaker 1: thinking about both from watching on live streams. Like for
Speaker 1: me as a person who's often been a pedestrian and
Speaker 1: often you know, isn't armed. Um, seeing the amount of forest,
Speaker 1: the amount of armor that was being used against these
Speaker 1: people was really striking to me because I I identified
Speaker 1: with the people who were unarmed and pedestrians. Um. But
Speaker 1: then like when I was in the car protest, which
Speaker 1: was like the least police involvement I had seen thus far,
Speaker 1: even though everybody was driving around and like a weapon essentially,
Speaker 1: like it could have gotten bad, like there was easily
Speaker 1: a way that a car protest could go very, very bad.
Speaker 1: But it was the level of hands offness with the
Speaker 1: cops with that, and that was still pretty early on,
Speaker 1: like they were still kind of cracking down on a
Speaker 1: lot of people. They were not cracking down on that,
Speaker 1: And I was just thinking about, like, like, there's some
Speaker 1: kind of respect for a car that there isn't for
Speaker 1: an unarmed human being, and that was that's I think.
Speaker 1: It's also just harder for them to assault people when
Speaker 1: they're in their cars, is the reality. And so some
Speaker 1: of the car protests I've been at, it's like they
Speaker 1: start just saying they're going to give out tickets for honking,
Speaker 1: you know, they just um find aspects of driving to
Speaker 1: criminalize so that they can say, Okay, if you're here
Speaker 1: and we hear you honk, you know, we're going to
Speaker 1: pull you over and cuff you. And so I guess
Speaker 1: the thing that I was thinking about out of that though,
Speaker 1: it was just that there are some people for whom
Speaker 1: like being in a car, me being in a car
Speaker 1: as as opposed to being a human on a street
Speaker 1: on a sidewalk makes me like more. I don't know,
Speaker 1: it gives me more agency or something or or as
Speaker 1: opposed to like, I don't know, it feels very I
Speaker 1: just started thinking about all this stuff because I'm like,
Speaker 1: people are seeing these videos of police brutality at protests
Speaker 1: on Facebook and stuff, and a lot of them it's
Speaker 1: still not clicking for them. They don't see the imbalance
Speaker 1: of power there um And I don't know, I don't
Speaker 1: know what to do with that information. I mean, there
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people out there who just
Speaker 1: respect power so much that you know, whoever has the
Speaker 1: most force, they are going to respect that. You know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they respect power because they expect that it will be
Speaker 1: used in their defense. Yes, that's it. And I think
Speaker 1: that one of the things we've seen that has been positive.
Speaker 1: And I don't mean there's a wrong way to take this,
Speaker 1: and I hope people don't. It's good that so many
Speaker 1: traditional liberals have gotten tear gased and assaulted by the
Speaker 1: police over the last couple of weeks because now they
Speaker 1: understand the reality of the problem for sure. And I
Speaker 1: mean I've heard other people say that and and mentioned
Speaker 1: Kent State and say that Kent State was very radicalizing
Speaker 1: for like white people in America because it was like
Speaker 1: white kids in a college campus getting tear gas instead
Speaker 1: of just you know, civil rights protesters. That had a
Speaker 1: different effect on them because they're racist. Yeah. I mean
Speaker 1: so many people I know and people's parents who the
Speaker 1: man in Buffalo, I'm blanking on his name, right, that
Speaker 1: is the anti operative, Yes, Michael Like he was like
Speaker 1: some seventy five year old guy in Buffalo, Like and
Speaker 1: he was like, you know, a leftist or whatever, but
Speaker 1: obviously an elderly man. And that actually was a thing
Speaker 1: that a lot of people's parents in that generation, I
Speaker 1: know that kind of flipped them. It was also the
Speaker 1: denial of what we could see on camera I think
Speaker 1: was very jolting for people. So he just fell. We
Speaker 1: didn't push him. I mean, it was such a microposma
Speaker 1: we saw it. But I think that the like, you know,
Speaker 1: because being from l A, it's like when the Rodney
Speaker 1: King tape came out, there was this feeling of like,
Speaker 1: if these things are videotaped, they cannot be denied. If
Speaker 1: you see the cops beating an unarmed black man for
Speaker 1: no reason, you will have to acknowledge that they do that.
Speaker 1: And that's you know, they're objective. It's not an accident,
Speaker 1: and there were still so many people who were just like,
Speaker 1: I'm going to choose to see what I want to see,
Speaker 1: or just like I'm gonna say whatever I want to
Speaker 1: have happened in this video happened. Um. And that's definitely
Speaker 1: still some people on the right, I feel like at
Speaker 1: this point or they just like to see leftists get
Speaker 1: the ship kicked out of them. Yep. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that's a lot of it. I think it is. You know,
Speaker 1: we talked about this on behind the police, um, policing
Speaker 1: in America from the very beginning before they're even like
Speaker 1: at the very start of the first police departments in
Speaker 1: this country. Um. The big part of the desire to
Speaker 1: have them among people who weren't rich was a desire
Speaker 1: to have what historians referred to as designated vigilantes. Um. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And that's why I think how a lot of people
Speaker 1: who are okay with the violence against left wing demonstrators,
Speaker 1: that's what they see. These people are bad because I
Speaker 1: don't like them, and I want someone with the power
Speaker 1: of the state to physically harm them. Um. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: cool and good. Well, we got a bunch of calls
Speaker 1: for you, Robert um Let everybody know on Twitter that
Speaker 1: you're gonna be on the show. So if you want
Speaker 1: to get into some of those yes, So this is
Speaker 1: a text message for you, Robert. The National Alliance neo
Speaker 1: Nazi group is dropping leaflets in my city. What should
Speaker 1: I do about it? Oh boy? UM, Well, there's a
Speaker 1: couple of things. One of them would be trying to
Speaker 1: identify the individuals actually putting out the leaflets, which is,
Speaker 1: you know, a mix of sort of surveillance and detective work.
Speaker 1: But ultimately that will be the most useful thing to do,
Speaker 1: is identify these individuals. So they do have to be
Speaker 1: connected and so many for example, businesses connected to them
Speaker 1: have to be connected with the actions being taken undertaken UM.
Speaker 1: Another thing would be counter messaging, so potentially putting out
Speaker 1: other leaflets UM warning people about what the National Alliances,
Speaker 1: It's history, the terrorism that it's inspired. UM. I do
Speaker 1: think kind of a two part response is justified. UM.
Speaker 1: Another thing might be UM getting UM informing UM the
Speaker 1: FBI of what's going on UM, because they do care
Speaker 1: more about this sort of thing than UM. Other law
Speaker 1: enforcement agencies tend to. UM. I would put that lowest
Speaker 1: on the list of priorities. First is figuring out who
Speaker 1: the who the hell is responsible and publicizing that as
Speaker 1: widely as you can um. Second is counter messaging, and
Speaker 1: third would be maybe given a heads up to federal
Speaker 1: law enforcement. What's happening? Can I ask a follow up
Speaker 1: on this? If if you're afraid of someone retaliating against
Speaker 1: you for you know, outing them as having done this
Speaker 1: or whatever, what kind of ways can you do? Can
Speaker 1: you disseminate that information without making yourself a target? I'm
Speaker 1: going to tell you right now, UM, let me look
Speaker 1: up exactly what his handle is. There's a number of
Speaker 1: us you know you can reach out to on on Twitter.
Speaker 1: But the the there are anti fascist researchers who spend
Speaker 1: a lot of their their lives doing this sort of work,
Speaker 1: and you should uh reach out to some of them, um,
Speaker 1: because they'll they have large followings already and will help
Speaker 1: you get this information out. One person to consider is
Speaker 1: anti fash Gordon, like Flash Gordon, but anti fash Um
Speaker 1: Gordon is a very experienced activist with the sort of thing.
Speaker 1: He does a lot of open source intel, so he
Speaker 1: could not only disseminate the information, he can double check
Speaker 1: it to make sure You've gotten the right guy. Uh,
Speaker 1: And I know Gordon would be very happy to do
Speaker 1: um this that sort of to help with something like that.
Speaker 1: Another person to maybe reach out to would be Daniel Harper. Um.
Speaker 1: Daniel is a podcast called I Don't Speak German, which
Speaker 1: is a history which is like histories of individuals who
Speaker 1: are uh like really significant within the modern fascist movement. Um.
Speaker 1: So those would be like two people. Uh and he's
Speaker 1: at Daniel E. Harper on Twitter. Those are two individuals
Speaker 1: I was just reaching out to for maybe help with that.
Speaker 1: I feel like if I was on a college campus
Speaker 1: right now, if this was kind of stuff was going around,
Speaker 1: for example, I would like invest in a roll of
Speaker 1: stickers and like bright neon pink that just say fascist
Speaker 1: and a lot of money everything. I don't know. I
Speaker 1: have a friend who lives in a small community and
Speaker 1: they had a similar question like this, and I had
Speaker 1: no idea how to answer it. It's really helpful to
Speaker 1: know that there are people who can help out with
Speaker 1: that because I know that, especially like in in smaller
Speaker 1: areas where it's so easy to know, you know, if
Speaker 1: I post like, oh so and so is doing this
Speaker 1: very opposed to picture or whatever then you obviously these
Speaker 1: people are violent and scary, so that's really thank you
Speaker 1: so much. That's a great service. Yeah, And in general,
Speaker 1: if there's like a local kind of ANTIPA collective around you,
Speaker 1: you know there's there are individual like city and state organizations,
Speaker 1: you might consider reaching out to them as well, um,
Speaker 1: because they might, they might. They generally have experience doing
Speaker 1: that kind of research work and disseminating that information. So yeah,
Speaker 1: is this where we publicly announced our affiliation with antiphon
Speaker 1: night call? I don't think anyone had any doubt about
Speaker 1: that membership in a terrorist organization. Yes, yes, come find us.
Speaker 1: Let's do another question. This is about emergency rations. Hi,
Speaker 1: my name is Dominic. I'm calling with the question for
Speaker 1: Robert Evans. I appriciently started to uh prepare for food
Speaker 1: and emergency supply, but I live in a small department
Speaker 1: and I wanted to get his opinion on what is
Speaker 1: the best way to store large amounts of water in
Speaker 1: a small area a lot of storage. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: there's no perfect answer to that, my because obviously, like
Speaker 1: water takes up a set amount of space, right, there's
Speaker 1: no way to make water take up less space because
Speaker 1: it is water UM. You know you UM. What I
Speaker 1: would recommend and what I myself do is I keep
Speaker 1: what is about a two week assuming about a gallon
Speaker 1: a day gallon and a half a day of water UM.
Speaker 1: I keep about a two week supply of water on hand.
Speaker 1: Actually minds more like four because I have a little
Speaker 1: bit more space in my yard, but about a two
Speaker 1: week supply of water. And then what you should focus
Speaker 1: on is having a mix of water purification tablets UM,
Speaker 1: something like AH I forget the name here, but one
Speaker 1: of those like ultra violet wands that they use that
Speaker 1: you can use in the field to sterilize water UM
Speaker 1: and pump activated hand like hand pump activated water filters UM.
Speaker 1: You know you can get all three, and you could
Speaker 1: keep a significant amount. You can keep all three in
Speaker 1: a significant including a significant amount of water purification tablets
Speaker 1: in a shoe box, and have what would be necessary
Speaker 1: to to filter thousands of gallons of water UM on hand.
Speaker 1: So you know you can only store so much. Two
Speaker 1: weeks is generally a good amount. Pretty much everyone has
Speaker 1: enough space for a two weeks storage supply of water.
Speaker 1: Get a couple of fifteen gallon UM jugs UM, and
Speaker 1: then focus on being able to purify and treat water.
Speaker 1: That's a good call. That that's what I would recommend. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And just for our listeners who might not know why
Speaker 1: you might want to do such a thing, Uh, just
Speaker 1: still listen. Yeah. Think about back when the pandemic hit
Speaker 1: and suddenly stuff like toilet paper that you've never had
Speaker 1: a problem getting before and never had to think about
Speaker 1: it was hard to get. Um. Thankfully, that was just
Speaker 1: toilet paper, and there's alternatives to toilet paper. Um. And
Speaker 1: it's not a thing that you need to survive, um, thankfully.
Speaker 1: While we did have shortages of different food stuffs and
Speaker 1: we're still going through those, nothing that was needed for
Speaker 1: basic survival was unavailable. Um. But also things that we
Speaker 1: never thought we wouldn't be able to get were unavailable.
Speaker 1: And that should make you realize things that you do
Speaker 1: need to survive could be made unavailable very suddenly. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean I bought a grip of water the last
Speaker 1: time there was a little earthquake because I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I should have so much water in case there's a
Speaker 1: big earthquake, and then I have drank it all during
Speaker 1: the pandemic. Yeah. And I'm not advocating stockpiling years worth
Speaker 1: of supplies and a bunker, because I don't think that
Speaker 1: actually gets you much security. You should have enough two
Speaker 1: to four week supply of food and water is a
Speaker 1: good idea for everyone in this country, and it's something
Speaker 1: that you can build up over a period of time
Speaker 1: without spending a huge amount of money. I would say,
Speaker 1: actually for people who live in natural disaster prone areas, uh,
Speaker 1: such as Los Angeles or uh did you guys make
Speaker 1: me want to dan X? Right? Well, you know the
Speaker 1: XANAX preparation is the xanax. Just staring at staring at
Speaker 1: that stuff, though, I think would decrease my quality of
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it. You You've clearly scared the ship
Speaker 1: out of me. I'm gonna do it. But can I
Speaker 1: tell you something really funny? Actually, during the uprising, Sharon
Speaker 1: Stone posted this crazy like how to build a safe
Speaker 1: room thing because, like a lot of rich white people
Speaker 1: in l A, she was afraid people were going to
Speaker 1: come directly to her house to loot it. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be honest here, yeah, we all, we all were gonna loot.
Speaker 1: Sharon at a Santa's checklist, and she was number one.
Speaker 1: At first, I thought she was offering a safe house,
Speaker 1: and then I was like, oh no, she's saying here's
Speaker 1: how to like build a panic room. But one of
Speaker 1: the things she said was make sure you have a
Speaker 1: supply of water, and Zanna, yeah, yeah, in a panic
Speaker 1: room is not going to increase your safety in any
Speaker 1: meaningful way. I'm not. I don't need to get into
Speaker 1: detail of what people who really wanted to harm you
Speaker 1: could do to a panic room. There's two things that
Speaker 1: will increase your safety. One is having enough of a
Speaker 1: supply of basic necessities that you don't need to panic, right,
Speaker 1: that's the goal. The goal is not to panic and
Speaker 1: buy supplies. The goal is that if something bad happens,
Speaker 1: you don't have to go out and contribute to the
Speaker 1: panic cause you're like, well, no, I'm good, I have food,
Speaker 1: I have water, I have toilet paper, Like I made
Speaker 1: sure that I was prepared a while ago. I can
Speaker 1: just sort of set this out. The other aspect of
Speaker 1: takeing of of true security UM is building ties with
Speaker 1: a community of people around you that you can rely
Speaker 1: on if things get really bad and you need to,
Speaker 1: Because the only real security that exists for any of
Speaker 1: us is communal securities. Community security. That's the only real
Speaker 1: self defense totally. And I think we've been seeing how
Speaker 1: as people realize that maybe the networks that are supposed
Speaker 1: to protect them are actually just harmful, that you do
Speaker 1: have to build counter networks of mutual aid. Luckily, we
Speaker 1: all got a weird three month crash course in how
Speaker 1: everybody is interconnected and needs to help each other before uh,
Speaker 1: we really had to team up and help each other.
Speaker 1: But look out, guys, because Facebook is going to steal
Speaker 1: all of this to further advertise for groups they're like.
Speaker 1: Even the anti FA podcasters say that community is important. See, yeah,
Speaker 1: you use signal signal. This is gonna be my my
Speaker 1: free spawn for signal right now. Mutual aid collaborative slash
Speaker 1: citizens self defense moist Robert when Trump, When Trump posted
Speaker 1: a Facebook ad that had an upside down red triangle,
Speaker 1: didn't you post eighty eight of them? Wait? What I
Speaker 1: didn't catch that part of it was the upside down
Speaker 1: red triangle supposed to represent Antifa or anti Antifa. Well,
Speaker 1: it was the upside down red triangle. The reason people
Speaker 1: flipped out rightly about that is that in Nazi Germany,
Speaker 1: when you were put in a concentration camp, your your
Speaker 1: little uniform, the little jumpsuit or whatever they gave you
Speaker 1: would have a triangle patch on it that was color
Speaker 1: coded to why you were in the concentration camp. So,
Speaker 1: for example, homosexuals had a pink triangle, and communists, social democrats,
Speaker 1: and anarchists got a red triangle. UM. And so when
Speaker 1: he posted a red triangle with no sort of commentary
Speaker 1: on his ad calling for violence against Antifa, a lot
Speaker 1: of people, including myself were like someone in I don't
Speaker 1: think Trump knew it it meant, but I think somebody
Speaker 1: within the administration who was you know, maybe it might
Speaker 1: have been as low as an intern, who knows, but
Speaker 1: somebody who was working on the social media team knew
Speaker 1: what they were signaling UM, and knew both that it
Speaker 1: would serve as a way for them to intimidate and
Speaker 1: frighten left wing people, but also would serve as a
Speaker 1: way to kind of uh draw up like a panic
Speaker 1: among the left, and when the ads got pulled, that
Speaker 1: panic would provide full or like free advertising to the campaign. Like,
Speaker 1: I think there's probably both both lines of thinking occurred
Speaker 1: in it. UM. I do think it's as likely a
Speaker 1: statement of kind of desperation, right now as it is
Speaker 1: a power though, just because things have not been going
Speaker 1: great for the right wing in the last couple of weeks,
Speaker 1: I think they are on the back foot at the moment. Yeah. Um.
Speaker 1: I had a hoodie from the indie rock label Kill
Speaker 1: Rock Stars that had a yellow star on the breast,
Speaker 1: and I wore it once in front of my grandfather
Speaker 1: escaped from the Holocaust, and he was like, Hey, I
Speaker 1: don't like that because it reminds me of this other thing.
Speaker 1: And then I didn't wear it anymore because that made
Speaker 1: me be like, maybe you can't actually appropriate these things
Speaker 1: yet they're always but it does seem like all sort
Speaker 1: of the greatest hits of like hateful iconography are coming back.
Speaker 1: You think that is a last gasp attempt to retain control. Oh,
Speaker 1: we don't know. It's kind of our responsibility to ensure
Speaker 1: that it is, like, that's our job is to make
Speaker 1: it be a last gasp. But that's not a guarantee.
Speaker 1: That's the thing you have to fight to ensure. It
Speaker 1: does feel more like gesturing, and that kind of thing
Speaker 1: feels more like gesturing in it at power than actual power.
Speaker 1: But who knows. You know, this is a long way
Speaker 1: before the election, if we even get one. So yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's early days yet, anything could happen. Um. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: going to hit you with another question from a listener. Sure, Hey,
Speaker 1: I have a question for Robert Ovans. Um. I listened
Speaker 1: to your podcast It could happen here, and it was
Speaker 1: particularly alarmed at the episode where you talked about how
Speaker 1: UM in certain states, like rural Americans could potentially choke
Speaker 1: the water into the supply. And I was just wondering,
Speaker 1: in your worst case civil worth scenario, UM, is there
Speaker 1: a particular state or even a particular city you think
Speaker 1: would be a terrible, particularly terrible place to be in
Speaker 1: because a lot of friends just like looking to move
Speaker 1: out of the city in New York, and UH would
Speaker 1: would love to tell them where you're clear of just
Speaker 1: in case it was a chipper chipper question, very dark, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's no great place to be if things go really badly. Um,
Speaker 1: there's aspects of living out in the country that are safer,
Speaker 1: but you're also very vulnerable to you know, uh, roving
Speaker 1: groups of of gangs or death squads already want to
Speaker 1: call them. There's been cases in like South America where
Speaker 1: economies have collapsed and like people who had the resources
Speaker 1: retreated to compounds in rural areas that they thought were safe,
Speaker 1: and then large groups of people would just kill them
Speaker 1: and take their stuff. And obviously there's dangerous of being
Speaker 1: in a city, including the fact that a lot of
Speaker 1: cities don't have access to um as much water as
Speaker 1: people think. If there's some damage to the infrastructure and
Speaker 1: food and like, but there's also a form of safety
Speaker 1: that comes from being around a lot of people who
Speaker 1: generally in cities, folks are less uh prime to the
Speaker 1: kind to like violent bigotry that is more common out
Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere. So there's the answer is
Speaker 1: that there's no perfect place to be and that the
Speaker 1: best thing to do is work actively to stop the
Speaker 1: ship from going down. Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say
Speaker 1: some of that's already happening in places like Flint, Michigan,
Speaker 1: where the governor Rick Snyder, who like is a total fascist,
Speaker 1: choked the water supply, like specifically to poor black parts
Speaker 1: of Michigan um And I interviewed an activist from there
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, and just hearing her talk
Speaker 1: about that and about water scarcity and like clean air
Speaker 1: scarcity becoming the big issue. Um. It has felt to
Speaker 1: me since then like she was just sort of like speaking.
Speaker 1: You know, they're already in the future there, and with
Speaker 1: things like Standing Rock too, right, what can people do
Speaker 1: to like, what can people do to stop them from
Speaker 1: drilling everything and destroying everything? Are we going to have to, like, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, put ourselves in front of bulldozers in the
Speaker 1: Appalachian Forest? Yeah? Sometimes, Um, you know, obviously the that
Speaker 1: kind of work well valuable, Um, isn't the long term solution.
Speaker 1: The long term solution is fundamentally changing aspects of how
Speaker 1: not just energy extraction works, not just how energy generation works,
Speaker 1: but how capital works and capital's relationship to to politics
Speaker 1: in our society. Um. But in the short term, yeah,
Speaker 1: sometimes people are gonna have to get in front of
Speaker 1: some fucking bulldozers. Um. You know. Uh, it is worth
Speaker 1: noting that. I think that there's a decent chance. Obviously,
Speaker 1: the violence and Standing Rock happened under Obama. There was
Speaker 1: some evidence that they were pulling back from forcing the
Speaker 1: pipeline forward when Trump got elected, and he definitely forced
Speaker 1: it through. It's impossible to say it would have happened
Speaker 1: or not under President Clinton. I think we would have
Speaker 1: had a better chance of actually stopping the pipeline. Um.
Speaker 1: I don't think she was particularly gave a ship about
Speaker 1: whether or not the pipeline happened. But in general, Democrats,
Speaker 1: when you yell at them, um, and you're on the
Speaker 1: left or the right, are a little bit you know
Speaker 1: there was is uh so like you can get them
Speaker 1: to do ship, you can shame them into action if
Speaker 1: nothing else. Yeah, I mean all we all we do
Speaker 1: is like shame or local politicians, and they seem to
Speaker 1: have like no reserves of shame whatsoever. They're just all
Speaker 1: you know, so in the drink. That's the thing is that,
Speaker 1: like I think as far as election and elections go,
Speaker 1: like it, it would be great if we had a
Speaker 1: candidate for any office. It's like, yeah, we love this person.
Speaker 1: But it's much more like useful and probably possible to
Speaker 1: have somebody that you can just like brate into No.
Speaker 1: And I have felt like very heartened by the amounts
Speaker 1: of people that have been turning out for all kinds
Speaker 1: of things, um, to protect the more vulnerable people. You know.
Speaker 1: I have seen people stand in front of some bulldozers
Speaker 1: to keep homeless encampments from being raised. And it feels
Speaker 1: like everybody is paying attention to you know, that to
Speaker 1: the way that the cops have always treated on how
Speaker 1: people in l A is how they are treating everybody.
Speaker 1: Now people are seeing how they are when you are.
Speaker 1: When you are confronting fascism. The only remedy to force
Speaker 1: is force. Now that doesn't mean you have to violently
Speaker 1: attack them, but putting your body in front of a
Speaker 1: bulldozer is a type of force that is exhibiting, That
Speaker 1: is exerting force in the real world. Just like confronting
Speaker 1: a riot line, even if your plan is not to
Speaker 1: physically harm those officers, it's a stand arm in arm
Speaker 1: and make them beat you. You are exerting force in
Speaker 1: the world. Um And force is the only language. Fascism understands.
Speaker 1: Um and one way or the other, that's the only
Speaker 1: thing that gets us out of this. You know. Maybe
Speaker 1: it is the force of keeping enough people out in
Speaker 1: the streets long enough for months that we scare them
Speaker 1: back into their little holes, and we win a democratic
Speaker 1: election and we start to dismantle some of the structures
Speaker 1: that allowed things to get this bad in the first place.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's the solution, but it starts where it already is.
Speaker 1: Right now with this uprising, which is people exerting their
Speaker 1: force as a mass in the street because there are
Speaker 1: more of us than there are of them. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: please say, we're scared. Yeah, I think. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: I haven't. This is the most optimistic I've been about
Speaker 1: our chances to win in a long time. Actually, um,
Speaker 1: because it does seem like a lot of people are
Speaker 1: finally getting it in a way that they haven't. That like, oh,
Speaker 1: ship's completely fucked, and like I have to go kind
Speaker 1: of risk my life a bit to unfunck it. Right. Uh,
Speaker 1: there's a great you know quote from my favorite problematic
Speaker 1: white man Hunter Thompson. Um, in democracy, you have to
Speaker 1: be a player, and that that that if we want
Speaker 1: a democracy, we have to play. And that playing isn't voting.
Speaker 1: Playing is using force. Um, the kind of force, you know,
Speaker 1: non violent force, I advocate, but force, and that that
Speaker 1: is what we have to be doing for sure. And
Speaker 1: I think the force of a big group of people
Speaker 1: showing up places is very powerful. And again, you know,
Speaker 1: when when the people I was with stopped the bulldozer,
Speaker 1: they all like sat in front of it peacefully, And
Speaker 1: I think people were just as confused as anything else
Speaker 1: you know, um, yeah, because doing something like that, even
Speaker 1: if it's not being outwardly, you're not exerting force on
Speaker 1: somebody else, You are forcing them to think about their
Speaker 1: actions in a way that they weren't thinking about them
Speaker 1: for sure. And it feels like there's like a you know,
Speaker 1: more people every time at things like that, and people
Speaker 1: are now just you know, openly looking for like how
Speaker 1: can I be of help? How can I make myself useful? Well,
Speaker 1: also everybody has now been forced to become more familiar
Speaker 1: with being uncomfortable, and I think after three months of
Speaker 1: really being psychologically uncomfortable in isolation, but also you know,
Speaker 1: I mean really having to consider things like okay, well
Speaker 1: what if my water supply work out off? Like all
Speaker 1: of these things that were very figurative are now very
Speaker 1: pressing because we live in like techno feudalism. It's like
Speaker 1: we have the appearance of all this luxury and then
Speaker 1: when you strip it away and you see what's really
Speaker 1: there and people can't go to the doctor if they
Speaker 1: need to, it's like, oh, maybe everybody have having to
Speaker 1: like sit and think about like how your Starbucks gets
Speaker 1: made for three months is like very useful yeah, well, Robert,
Speaker 1: before we let you go, do you have any parting
Speaker 1: words for how people can find you on social media
Speaker 1: where you know what what they can listen to that
Speaker 1: you make. I know we introduced you at the beginning,
Speaker 1: but your your social handles. I get a six part
Speaker 1: mini series within Behind the Bastards coming out right now
Speaker 1: called Behind the Police. You can find it and Behind
Speaker 1: the Bastards or you can find it by looking up
Speaker 1: Behind the Police on whatever podcast app you use. It's
Speaker 1: a history of the American police. Um and kind of
Speaker 1: my argument as to why reform is actually impossible and
Speaker 1: we need to replace it with something else. Um. But
Speaker 1: it's it's history. It's a lot of history that I think,
Speaker 1: particularly a lot of white people. You'd be surprised how
Speaker 1: many of your your black friends know all of this history.
Speaker 1: But but I didn't know a lot of it until
Speaker 1: I started researching, and I don't think most white people do.
Speaker 1: And it's important, and yeah, check that out please for sure.
Speaker 1: I mean we talked on the first part of the show.
Speaker 1: We were talking about replacing parts of Disneyland that are
Speaker 1: racist and whether they are like Confederate monuments and need
Speaker 1: to be like left Okay, we're finally talking about the
Speaker 1: teacup right, Yes, yes, those teacups literally, Oh I'm mad.
Speaker 1: Now it's gonna sunk up some police. And now I
Speaker 1: don't know. I feel like looking into the history of
Speaker 1: these things and of American institutions in general, is like
Speaker 1: the most helpful thing anyone can do is read read
Speaker 1: the history of this country and see how we got here. Robert.
Speaker 1: I also wanted to out you as a fall fanatic.
Speaker 1: I just found out a huge fall stand an autumn man.
Speaker 1: I fall more than on them, but I love them
Speaker 1: both real excited for pumpkin spice to come back, hoping
Speaker 1: we all survive for that. Oh yeah, I thought you
Speaker 1: were a PSL stand. And look, if you live in
Speaker 1: a small place, how can people stockpile their pumpkin spice
Speaker 1: if they live in a small apartment survive. I'll actually
Speaker 1: tell you, because I thought a lot about this. You
Speaker 1: don't want to be buying pumpkin spiced products. You want
Speaker 1: to buy actual pumpkin spice, the spice because that will
Speaker 1: allow you. Um no, No, it's just like a powder.
Speaker 1: There's there's there's yeah, there's like there's recipes for making
Speaker 1: it too, But you want to stockpile the raw pumpkin
Speaker 1: spice ingredients and then you can pumpkin spice whatever it is.
Speaker 1: It's it's all just nutmeg. It has layers. D Thank
Speaker 1: you so much Robert for joining us today, and everyone
Speaker 1: please check out Behind the Police. Thank you very much
Speaker 1: for having me. Yeah, thanks Robert. We will see you
Speaker 1: next week. Thank you so much for listening to the
Speaker 1: pod this week. If you're enjoying it, we would love
Speaker 1: a review on iTunes. Um. You can follow us on
Speaker 1: social media. We are Nightcall Podcast on Facebook and Instagram,
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Speaker 1: you can give us a night email at Nightcall Podcast
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Speaker 1: where you can join at a number of different membership
Speaker 1: levels to get bonus episodes, our newsletter, mix tapes, all
Speaker 1: sorts of fun stuff. So find us there Patreon dot
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Speaker 1: Him