1 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:21,959 Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan four years roughly, that's 2 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:24,319 Speaker 1: forty eight months, just so that we can kind of 3 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: frame that out just for a quick second. Four years 4 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: I've been waiting. I've been waiting to find out what 5 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: happened to Suzanne Morphew. Well, the day has arrived. I 6 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: can't say I'm completely satisfied, but I felt like it 7 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: was time to sit down that Dave and I have 8 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: a conversation for a special episode that's going to deal 9 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: with this complex scientific evidence that we have laid out 10 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: before us. Right now, I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this 11 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: is Body Bags. Dave. Let me let me reach something 12 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: real quick before we dig into this, and I'm going 13 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 1: to give you five names. I'm going to give you 14 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 1: five names, and these are names that we need to 15 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: keep at the forefront of our mind when talking about 16 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: Susanne Morphew. They are as follows, doctor Emily Russell Kinsley, 17 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: doctor Leon Kelly, doctor Allison Cooper, doctor Meghan Clientsner, and 18 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: doctor Jared Murdoch. Dave, five five physicians. Five physicians signed 19 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: off on what amounts to a four page report that 20 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: we're looking at right now. Uh and I'm sure that 21 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: everybody else around the country will eventually have this in 22 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: their hands. And as I always tell everybody to talk 23 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: to me, don't believe what I'm saying, don't look it up. 24 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: Look it up for yourself, man, go check it out. 25 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 2: All right, Before we go too much further, why were 26 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 2: there so many doctors involved in Today we're dealing with 27 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 2: the death of Suzanne Morphew, who went missing on Mother's 28 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 2: Day four years ago? Can you believe it's been We're 29 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 2: We're that close, Joe, We're a couple of weeks away 30 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 2: from Mother's Day. 31 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we are that close. We certainly are. And uh. 32 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 2: And I started covering this as a missing person's case 33 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 2: when she That's why this is so important to me. 34 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 2: I remember the day. 35 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember sitting there and talking. It was immediately 36 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: after Mother's Day. Ye. Nancy had me on Yes and 37 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: on her show, and I was I was chatting about this, 38 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:52,119 Speaker 1: and I remember distinctly thinking about and this is when 39 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 1: they found the bicycle. Now I think they had the helmet, 40 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken. 41 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 2: Found that they found the bike the day of the 42 00:02:58,480 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 2: day she went missing, and they found the bike that 43 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 2: it was the helmet they found a couple of days 44 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:03,839 Speaker 2: later and a mile away. 45 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: Right and it was dispersed in I remember talking to 46 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: on air to Nancy about this case at that time, 47 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: you said missing persons, and you know that what I 48 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: was thinking this first off, hid in the heck this 49 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: bicycle get so far off the road. And but from 50 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 1: a forensic standpoint, was there any kind of trace evidence 51 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:26,959 Speaker 1: that you could that you could recover off of this thing? Uh, 52 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 1: you know, points of contact where people are putting their hands, 53 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: people's people's hands other than Susanne Morpheus, you know where 54 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: you could find DNA evidence of some type. Was there 55 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: any blood evidence on there? Because you know, when I 56 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: when I hear bicycle, I'm thinking bicycle versus motor vehicle 57 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: and strike and guess who always loses in that It's 58 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: gonna be the person on the bicycle. But there was 59 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: there was no body. There was no body, And this 60 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: thing is like concealed, I mean, it's off, it's it's 61 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: it's not like it's just like down in the ditch. 62 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: You know, this thing is like it's off the road. 63 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 2: The bike, and so yeah, yeah, it was down a ditch. 64 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 2: Actually it was on the side of a cliff. I'm 65 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 2: not kidding. When now backing up to the day we 66 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 2: did this, it was the weekend we had gone through 67 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 2: Mother's Day where we have a missing person. We've got 68 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 2: very suspicious activity and a bike that is found that night. 69 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 2: And the bike it was found halfway down a cliff. Now, 70 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 2: if you've ever done any mountain biking, you know there 71 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 2: are some dangerous areas, but this was just off of 72 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 2: a road and it had gone down. But the bike 73 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 2: showed no damage. The bike shows no damage whatsoever. It 74 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 2: had been basically it rolled down the hill and stopped, 75 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 2: but the helmet's not there. They don't find the helmet 76 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 2: right away. They're looking for things. But the thing is 77 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 2: that Suzanne Morphew. And by the way, she was not 78 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 2: a longtime mountain bike enthusiast. It was a fairly new thing. 79 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 2: She was a cancer patient and that actually came into 80 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 2: play in the AUFIO because yeah, I did when they 81 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 2: found a piece of medical hardware. It was a port 82 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 2: that they used to administer medication. But it was reported 83 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 2: that you have a woman missing fifty ish and he 84 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 2: was just forty nine at the time, and cancer patient 85 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 2: and they're setting it up, say maybe she just decided 86 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 2: to take herself out and do away with herself. That 87 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 2: was how it was kind of being put out there 88 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 2: to some. But when her bike was found that night, 89 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:31,039 Speaker 2: it was found halfway down a cliff, her helmets nowhere 90 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 2: to be found. The other thing she normally took when 91 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 2: she was biking, left in her car. Immediately people start 92 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 2: looking at the inner circle, you know, Yeah, things look suspicious. 93 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 2: So we started looking at Barry, her husband, Ary more 94 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 2: few and. 95 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: We we've always you know, we've we've talked about that extensively, 96 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: about the circle of intimates, you know, those those people 97 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: that that would be in her orbit, because David, I 98 00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: got to tell you. You know, you've heard that old term. 99 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: They got a pipe in Sunshine beautiful area. However, it's 100 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 1: not like you've got random acts of violence that are 101 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: going on all the time. And I know where her 102 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: body was found that there was uh and you know, 103 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: there there were other cases of people that had been 104 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: found apparently adjacent to that location, and they used all 105 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:29,160 Speaker 1: kinds of very theatrical terms killing field, I heard somebody say. 106 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:33,280 Speaker 1: And there were uh, a bone yard, there were all 107 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: kinds of things. But come on, let's let's get real. 108 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:40,039 Speaker 1: All right, this is not You're not going to have 109 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: somebody that's going to go out and maliciously kill this 110 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,840 Speaker 1: woman stranger on stranger kind of event, you know, And 111 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: and so automatically, as an investigator, you're gonna look, we 112 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: want to. 113 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 2: Ask you this show you find the bike, the bike 114 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 2: has it, The bike is down the hill. There is 115 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 2: no body. I've had a bike greg before. And by 116 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 2: the way, my body was near the bike. It wasn't close, 117 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,239 Speaker 2: but it was nearby, you know, because I wasn't dead. 118 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 2: I was alive, and I walked up the hill. Now 119 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 2: my bike stayed at the bottom of the hill, but 120 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 2: I was found. Okay, she wasn't found. They found her 121 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 2: helmet days later and a mile away. It immediately says, 122 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 2: did somebody run her off the road and then take 123 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 2: her body and throw the bike down the cliff? Did 124 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 2: they run her off the road and she crashed down 125 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 2: there and they went down there and got her body 126 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 2: up and took her off. I mean, so it makes 127 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 2: no sense for her bike to be found halfway down 128 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 2: a cliff. But there's no sign of any grass being trampled, 129 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 2: there's no sign of anybody walking back up the hill. 130 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 2: Any sign of people walking down. There's nothing in the 131 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 2: dirt indicative of a car running her off the road 132 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 2: or by the way, not even trail in the dirt. 133 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 2: By the way, this is that night, This is seven 134 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 2: point thirty that night. They think she went biking at 135 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 2: eight o'clock that morning. 136 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a reason. There's a reason they're called hit 137 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: and run because when people hit a subject, whether they're 138 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: a pedestrian or a boss or even another motor vehicle, 139 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 1: they leave. They don't stay around to collect a body 140 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: and haul it off somewhere, which is, you know, just 141 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: so super bizarre. In this case. Now, I think that 142 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: that's one of the things that had us all kind 143 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: of befuddled. 144 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 2: But there was one thing that was said that night. 145 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 2: Her husband he had a good idea mountain lion. Mountain lion. Yeah, 146 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 2: he said it that night when the when he meets 147 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 2: with the cops at seven thirty, eight o'clock, nine o'clock, 148 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 2: whatever time it was that night they found the bike 149 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 2: at seven thirty. He was on his way back from 150 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:36,959 Speaker 2: wherever he claimed to be. Bottom line, he suggested, well, 151 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 2: a mountain lion. How about I knew that. 152 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: I knew that that was BS the moment I heard it, 153 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: and not necessarily bs because it's coming from him, I 154 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: thought that it was an absurd suggestion. You know, let's 155 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: let's roll with bear as well. We're at it right. 156 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: You know. 157 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 2: I had to study mountain lions, Joe. You know what 158 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 2: I found. What's that mountain lions are severely territorial. They 159 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 2: also don't run impacts and landstakes out an area and 160 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 2: that is his or hers. 161 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: They are solitary. 162 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 2: And that's it. 163 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: The reason I knew this going back many years is 164 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: that I actually was in the presence of a presentation 165 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: probably the most gas and by my standard, one of 166 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: the most gasoly things I've ever seen. I was actually 167 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:19,559 Speaker 1: at the American Academy Forensic Science meeting and there was 168 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: an odentologist from you guessed it, of all places, Colorado, Wow, 169 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: And he presented He presented a case that he had 170 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: worked of a jogger. And I'm going to get this wrong, probably, 171 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: but I think it was in Boulder where this young 172 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: lady had taken off down a trail and guess what 173 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: she ran under? She ran under an outcropping of rock 174 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: that and this trail is set up for people to 175 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: walk and run on and there were two guys in 176 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 1: the parking lot that left after her. It was like 177 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: a lunchtime job kind of thing. They had out and 178 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: when they get probably two to three minutes into their run, 179 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: Dave thereby that out cropping and the mountain law and 180 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: the mountain lion has its teeth sunk into her back 181 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 1: in the middle of the trail, and they scared the 182 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: thing off and left her. The injuries were so ghastly. 183 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: And this is the other thing that I took away 184 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: from that based upon what I was seeing. You know what, 185 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: you would see a lot of blood, there would be 186 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: a blood trail of you would see perhaps evidence of 187 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: drag marks. And I'm not talking about just like where 188 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:32,079 Speaker 1: you're carrying dead weight. I'm talking about if an individual 189 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:35,079 Speaker 1: had been attacked in the middle of the road and 190 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: drug off and they were not dead, they'd be fighting. 191 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: It's just a natural response. And you would see brush 192 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:45,439 Speaker 1: torn down, all kinds of things, and you just that 193 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: wasn't coming up. And so it wasn't an animal wild 194 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: animal attack. It just it just didn't register her. But 195 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: I do know this, We have finally got an actual 196 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: autopsy report. Listen, it's not real bust, but it's more 197 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: than we had yesterday. We knew that it was coming, 198 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,079 Speaker 1: but I gotta tell you for our purposes here on 199 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: body backs, it reveals quite a bit. I'm really interested 200 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: to get into this. David couldn't believe it a couple 201 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: months back. Well, I guess we were in twenty twenty 202 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:38,079 Speaker 1: three more than a couple of months when the news 203 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: came out that they had discovered at that time what 204 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: they believed to be Susanne Morphew's remains, and then they 205 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: confirmed that they were in fact her remains. Because I 206 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: gotta tell you, I got to tell you, Boba. I 207 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: was thinking they're never going to her. And again I 208 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: go back to this idea of isolation, because this place 209 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: is so very isolated, and there's any number of locations 210 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 1: that she could have been hidden because this is not 211 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: densely populated. I don't know if people understand how vast 212 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: this area is out there, and the fact that that 213 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:25,199 Speaker 1: these remains were found is just dumb luck as far 214 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: as I'm concerned, and I thought about it at that time. 215 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 1: I talked to other people about it, and they kind 216 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: of we came to that consensus, and the fact that 217 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: they have them. Wow, I didn't see that coming up 218 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: at whoever did this? Because I gotta tell you, I'll 219 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,199 Speaker 1: go ahead. I'm not I'm not bearing the lead here, 220 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: but I'll go ahead and tell you right now what 221 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: we're looking at. They've they've ruled her death as a homicide, 222 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: but there's a few qualifiers here there, and I'm going 223 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: to have to get into. 224 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 2: Really curious how you're going to do this, Joe, because look, look, 225 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 2: just to give you an idea and if the refresher 226 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 2: core is on the more the appearance of Suzanne Morphew 227 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 2: right before she went missing Mother's Day of twenty twenty. 228 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 2: On May the sixth, she sent a text message to 229 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 2: her husband of twenty five years, Berry Morphew. By the way, 230 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 2: they knew each other in high school. He was a 231 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 2: high school baseball player, got drafted out of high school 232 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 2: by the Toronto Blue Jays. She was a school teacher, 233 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 2: and they got married had two girls. Once she had 234 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 2: the girls, she decided to take time off from her 235 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 2: teaching duties to raise her girls, and Barry started a 236 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 2: landscape company. They ended up moving to Colorado. As one 237 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 2: of the daughter's Mallory I believe went to college there, 238 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 2: and so here we are. It's May six, twenty twenty. 239 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 2: They've been out in Colorado a couple of years. Some 240 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 2: people said it was to save their marriage. The marriage 241 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 2: was not doing well, and sure enough May six, three 242 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 2: days before she goes missing. Four days rather, she sends 243 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 2: a message to him, I'm done. I could care less 244 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,959 Speaker 2: what you're up to and have been for years. We 245 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 2: just need to figure this out. Civilly. Susann Morphy wrote 246 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 2: that to her husband four days before she went missing. Now, 247 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 2: the reason this is important is because during their investigation 248 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 2: police found this. But what they found is that Barry 249 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 2: Morphew had gone through great effort to delete that text 250 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 2: message from her phone and from his. But the thing is, 251 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 2: why would you do that? 252 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: Yeah? 253 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 2: May ninth, the morning, According to court documents, fifty nine 254 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 2: communications were exchanged between Suzanne Morphew and a man she 255 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 2: was dating. She had been seeing somebody behind her husband's 256 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 2: back for a couple of years. They'd gotten together in 257 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 2: New Orleans and Florida. He was from Michigan, somebody she 258 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 2: had known for many, many years, A long time. She 259 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 2: just had her fill of Verry Morphew very Morephew, you're 260 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 2: going to find out was charged with murder. Not today, 261 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 2: not yesterday. All the evidence put together led police to 262 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 2: Barry Morphew, and they arrested Barry Morphew and charged him. However, 263 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 2: the color of Bureau Investigation, the guy one of the 264 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 2: lead detectives on the case at the time they charged 265 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 2: and arrested Barry Morphew, he was against it. Don't do it. 266 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 2: It's the wrong move. We do not have enough evidence 267 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 2: to do this. And sure enough, as they started going 268 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 2: through the motions in court, they got it moved out 269 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 2: of Chafe County into a different county, you know, because 270 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 2: of the attention and the lack of people to choose 271 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 2: from in JP County. And once they got into a 272 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 2: new county, they're getting ready to start arguments, were getting 273 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 2: ready to follow this case, and all of a sudden, 274 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 2: the defense pleads with the judge to drop this, get 275 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 2: this out of kick it out. Judge looks over everything, 276 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 2: and sure enough, the judge dismissed it. We're talking a 277 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 2: couple of weeks away from getting in this trial underway. 278 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 2: The judge dismissed the case against Barry Morphew. In April 279 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 2: of twenty twenty two, the eleventh Judicial District Attorney filed 280 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 2: the motion to dismiss without prejudice, which means file can 281 00:15:58,320 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 2: be charged. It can be charged again. 282 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I knew that that was. They have that 283 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: in their back pocket. So this is as far as 284 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: I'm concerned. This situation is far from over. But I 285 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: think that one of the things that we have to 286 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: consider is now that this assessment has been done. You know, 287 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: we've got we've got little beams of light that are 288 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: now beginning to kind of spread out and show forth 289 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: here about what do they have to work with. 290 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 2: Well, the restaurant when they got him, Yeah, is your 291 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 2: light ray? I read it just before we tape this today. 292 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: Please whole force. 293 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 2: Man. The things they found inside that house, the evidence 294 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 2: they found that made them want to charge very more 295 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 2: for you after the autopsy report today made incredible sense. 296 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 2: Justin Scott Morgan, incredible sense. They found, Yeah, the gun 297 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 2: you used of fired darts that tranquilize animals. 298 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, found one of those. 299 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 2: They found a cap that goes on the end of 300 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:08,400 Speaker 2: that needle in the dryer in the laundry. Why would 301 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,440 Speaker 2: you have that unless you recently shot one. They found 302 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 2: an unspent twenty two caliber shell or a bullet. Rather 303 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 2: found a few other things around the house too, that 304 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 2: now that we actually have something to talk about with 305 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,679 Speaker 2: regard to an autopsy, it makes a lot of sense. 306 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 2: So I got to ask you, Joe, they only found bones, right, 307 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 2: that's all we found, because she had been from May 308 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 2: of twenty twenty until September when they have twenty twenty three. 309 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 2: Last September, they found her bones, right. 310 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, they did, and at the time. At the time, 311 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,239 Speaker 1: we didn't know what the status of it was, all right, 312 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: cause I there were commentators that came out and said that, oh, yeah, well, 313 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: there's a potential that we're still going to have what's 314 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: referred to as soft tissue, and what that means is 315 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: that you'll still have skin, you'll have muscle, you'll have fat, 316 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: and all of the components even if they're in an 317 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 1: advanced state of decomposition that was being put forth. I've 318 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:09,360 Speaker 1: never held that opinion. I always felt as though that 319 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: her remains would essentially have been skeletonized, and my thought was, 320 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: are they going to be scattered to the point where 321 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 1: you're not going to have a complete skeleton? And I 322 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: cannot say that they do in fact have a complete skeleton. 323 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 1: But they've got they've got enough. And it's painstaking work 324 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: because when you're in kind of ah see, how can 325 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,360 Speaker 1: I put this? When you're when you're out in an 326 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 1: area like this and you have a body that is 327 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: in what they have framed, Dave as a shallow grave. 328 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: Her body is not just laid on top of the earth. 329 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: She's in a shallow grave. Now, we don't have any 330 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 1: specifics in the autopsy report as far as greatest depth 331 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: of this defect in the ground, which I'd be very 332 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 1: keen on knowing. I want to know because you know, 333 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,959 Speaker 1: the deeper deeper the hole is in the ground. Uh, 334 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,479 Speaker 1: that goes to a time, doesn't it, because it takes 335 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,120 Speaker 1: more time. And what I did here and you might 336 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: find this find this quite interesting, Dave. The soil out 337 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: there is not like going into your grandma's tomato a 338 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: garden and turn it over, you know, topsoil and loam 339 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: and manure and all that. And no, this is this 340 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: is hard, hard work that you're talking about. It would 341 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:44,400 Speaker 1: require exertion. As a matter of fact, I'd heard one 342 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: fellow in an interview say that if you're going to 343 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:48,880 Speaker 1: show up to dig a hole out here, you need 344 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: a pick ax with and my good god, I was 345 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: thinking of pick axe. Yeah, and then then you need 346 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,880 Speaker 1: a really sharp shovel in order to you know, complete 347 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: the deal, because it's so from and so you would 348 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: in order to generate a hole. First off, you got 349 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 1: to be vested. You got to be vested. You've got 350 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 1: to be somebody that wants to bury this woman's remains well, 351 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 1: and then you think about how are you going to 352 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 1: know about this area? How are they going to have 353 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 1: specific knowledge of this particular location where she is found? 354 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: And then you have to show up with right tools 355 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: because whoever went out there would know that. Okay, I'm 356 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: not just you know, I'm not gonna you know, have 357 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,640 Speaker 1: the have the shovel here that you know, I picked 358 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 1: up this local box store, you know I and is 359 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 1: hanging on the rack with all the other ones. I'm 360 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: gonna need something hefty, something robust. I'm gonna need other 361 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: tools to break loose this soil. And so that again 362 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: requires a lot of effort. Can you imagine being out 363 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 1: there and you're digging a hole, and could you be 364 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: seen by the main road with somebody see a truck 365 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: or a car that's out there parked on the side 366 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: of the road, or was her body removed from the 367 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 1: road and then taken many many yards away from the road, 368 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,679 Speaker 1: And you got a loan figure out there digging away, 369 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 1: working hard. Were you going to do that in the daylight? Well, 370 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: it's kind of a it's not necessarily a robust population 371 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 1: around there. Maybe you could get away with it. I 372 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:30,679 Speaker 1: have no idea, but I think that someone would have 373 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: had to have accomplished this, probably at nighttime day in 374 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,880 Speaker 1: order to facilitate this. But who could have put their 375 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,439 Speaker 1: hand to the plow as it were, relative to this 376 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: to facilitate it. So the fact that they recovered her 377 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: in this hole and the remains appeared to be concentrated 378 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: around that specific defect, which by the way, they did 379 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:59,119 Speaker 1: in fact identify, they wound up having to recover the 380 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: remains out there. And another interesting part to this is 381 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,439 Speaker 1: that they recovered what they believe or animal bones that 382 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: are out there as well. So you've got this kind 383 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:11,880 Speaker 1: of commingling of remains or skeletal remains that are going on, 384 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:18,159 Speaker 1: And so that requires not necessarily simply a you know, 385 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 1: I talked about the five physicians early on that signed off, 386 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 1: you're gonna have to call in a forensic anthropologists. As 387 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,640 Speaker 1: a matter of fact, I want a forensic anthropologists out 388 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: there at the site with the agents. I want them 389 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: conducting the excavation because they're trained to do this. And 390 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,400 Speaker 1: they're also trained and this is kind of an amazing 391 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 1: feat to me out of One of my dear friends 392 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: is a PhD forensic anthropologists, and that boy could walk 393 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: down the road and he never looked up. He never 394 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 1: looked to the left of the right, you know where. 395 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 1: He always looked at the ground and he could find 396 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 1: things just laying on the ground. We were walking across 397 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,479 Speaker 1: a parking lot one day. He found a match box 398 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 1: that I didn't see it was and it had clay 399 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: on it. Where they were doing work, David Scene had 400 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 1: an image engraved on it of a hunter with a dog, 401 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,159 Speaker 1: and it turned out the circle of the thing was 402 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 1: like eighteen eighty eight and he just happened to look 403 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 1: down and he's seeing this thing. They have forensic anthropologies. 404 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: We hear about the body farm and all this sort 405 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: of thing. They are amazing with the way they can 406 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: like you and I might see a clot of dirt 407 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 1: or rock that's not what they see, they see something 408 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:31,159 Speaker 1: completely different. It takes years and years of training in 409 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 1: order to appreciate the environment and kind of understand it. 410 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,920 Speaker 1: But they did recover these remains, and so everything has 411 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:42,360 Speaker 1: to be examined. And in the case of Susanne Morphew, 412 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,399 Speaker 1: one of the things that would have to take place 413 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: is that they would try to reconstitute her skeleton on 414 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: one table. And I guarantee you, Dave, they took pictures 415 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 1: of this there and there's for those that don't have 416 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:02,360 Speaker 1: the actual the action list and from just bear with 417 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: me here be patient, there is actually here. Here are 418 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: They collected everything in three bags and they have these 419 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 1: things broken down so that they collected in their first suite. 420 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 1: They have collected Day one. There's a Day one bag 421 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 1: and then there is a second Day one bag that 422 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,640 Speaker 1: actually contains the skull. So they've kept the skull separate 423 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 1: from whatever it was that they found on the first day. 424 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 1: And so on day two and three they went out 425 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: and found more remains which they backed together, so they 426 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,439 Speaker 1: wound up with three bags of remains. It's commingling of 427 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: these remains, and you can't really kind of understand that, 428 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 1: you know, when you're out there. You have to take 429 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 1: it back to the laboratory environment to break everything down. 430 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,880 Speaker 1: And you know, plus you've got dirt and they also 431 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: found wood and wood many times dave can actually look 432 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 1: like bone. But here's here's what we came up with. 433 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: This is kind of the inventory, just so that everybody's 434 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: in the same sheet of music. Here. So here we go. 435 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: We have a skull with a mandible, which is actually 436 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: the jaw. We have the sacrum, which the sacrum is 437 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:20,360 Speaker 1: it's not it involves the cocas, but it's it's that 438 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,919 Speaker 1: last destination going down your spine, that big flat bone 439 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: that is literally that comprises your tailbone. They've got multiple ribs. 440 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 1: It's surprising me many times that they actually find ribs 441 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 1: because ribs animals love these things. So they've got bilateral 442 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: radius and ola, which are the two bones in the forearm. 443 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: They've got the manubrium, and they've got the sternum, and 444 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,399 Speaker 1: of course the sternum is that plate that covers your 445 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:50,959 Speaker 1: heart right in the center of your chest. You can 446 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 1: feel yours. They've got the right scapulum, which is you 447 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,160 Speaker 1: know that kind of wing shaped bone that's on your 448 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 1: that's on your back. Okay, so the right one, they've 449 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,680 Speaker 1: got one of the clavical which is your collar bone. 450 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 1: They've got the right and left femeral bones. They've also 451 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,199 Speaker 1: got the right and left tip fib which are the 452 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 1: two bones in your lower leg. And then they've got 453 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:22,959 Speaker 1: multiple vertebral bodies as well. And here's the kicker. And 454 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,159 Speaker 1: this is what this leads to, Dave. There was no 455 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,120 Speaker 1: and I mean no soft tissue left. I thought that 456 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 1: I really thought that what we were going to see 457 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 1: was that we were going to have some semblance of 458 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,399 Speaker 1: soft tissue, because many times, particularly in more of an 459 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: arid climate like this, you can have natural mummification that 460 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 1: takes place and you'll have soft tissue the remainder of 461 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: the skin that will kind of be dried out and 462 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,719 Speaker 1: thinly stretched over the scaltal remains. But at the end 463 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: of the day, the answers are actually going to rest 464 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: in the bone. When you have a decomposed body. And 465 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,639 Speaker 1: when I say decomposed, the body is essentially in a 466 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 1: state that is first off, unrecognizable. Most of the time 467 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 1: is as you can imagine as very pungent. It's swollen, 468 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: skin is really greasy. You've got skin slippage going on. 469 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: All of these changes have taken place for a protract 470 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: period of time. But the saving grace here scientifically is 471 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: that you still have soft tissue. And even though you 472 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 1: might not could get TALX results from blood because the 473 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:57,680 Speaker 1: blood has gone through such decomposition. What we would do 474 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 1: Dave many times is take a slice, particularly of the liver. 475 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: You can do it with the brain too, but with 476 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,719 Speaker 1: the liver, and you place the liver into that slice 477 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: of liver into a tube like a test tube, and 478 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 1: you put it on a centrifuge and you spin it down. 479 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: You spin it down to the point where it liquifies, 480 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 1: and you can draw that up and you can perform toxicology. 481 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 1: And here's another little known fact that if you think 482 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,120 Speaker 1: that was bad, the next one I'm about to give 483 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 1: you is really bad. 484 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 2: I'm thinking, if you start talking about farber beans and 485 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,360 Speaker 2: kin I'm really going to lose my hand. 486 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 1: No. No, I'm going to talk to you about maggots though, 487 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: because one of the things that we can do with 488 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:43,479 Speaker 1: maggots is if we can extract maggots from the body, 489 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: guess what they do, particularly with opiates and cocaine, they 490 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: will begin to metabolize those drugs that are contained within 491 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: the body. If you can collect the maggots, you can 492 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: spin those down and actually find out what was going 493 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 1: on in the system of the de ceased. Now, you 494 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: can get a qualitative amount most of times, but you're 495 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: not gonna be able to get a quantitative amount like 496 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: that will say, Okay, you're in lethal levels, not like blood, 497 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: so you're still tissue, right, Yeah, that's that's with tissue. 498 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: And so that's you know, the five physicians that I 499 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: mentioned just a moment ago. That's a conundrum here there, 500 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: and let me address this real quick. I know that 501 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: we're going long on this, but this is a great 502 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: moment that everybody can learn from. The reason you have 503 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: five physicians on this thing day is, first off, they're 504 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: no fools. They know what the heat of the spotlight 505 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: is like, right, and they're not They're not going to 506 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: try to put the responsibility off on the others. These 507 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: guys are physicians. So what they do is they sit 508 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: around in morning meetings and I've been in them, and 509 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 1: they talk about cases of the day. Dude, They've been 510 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 1: talking about this case for a long time at this office. 511 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 1: And so what is how happened is can you imagine 512 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: this if you ever wrote a report and you didn't 513 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: just have like one of your colleagues review, you got 514 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 1: five reviewing it, and they're gonna pick this thing. They're brutal. 515 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: I mean they're brutal, and they need to be kind 516 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: of truth. You have to because you say, I wouldn't 517 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: have come to this conclusion. But whatever occurred, you've got 518 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: validation by five separate subjects here that are saying scientifically, 519 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: we're signing our name on the scene, and we we 520 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 1: agree with your diagnosis here. 521 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 2: Then I got to know how they came up with it, 522 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 2: because you just went through the whole thing about how 523 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 2: we're going to get toxicology reports from a liver that 524 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 2: you've run through a centrifuge and through skin and blood 525 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 2: and things like that. But from everything we're seeing, you know, 526 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 2: you started off with the Raiders of the Lost Art 527 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 2: guys going out there and getting the bones, right, that's 528 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 2: all we've got. We've got bones, and we do have 529 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 2: some clothing, but we don't have any soft tissue. We 530 00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 2: don't have any tissue, we don't have any We have 531 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 2: nothing other than hard bones. Joe a skull, a femur. 532 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 2: We don't. I'm not seeing I've looked at this whole report. 533 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 2: How are you going to get toxicology when all you 534 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 2: have are bones? 535 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 1: Okay, everybody, find your hip joint. Okay, up at the 536 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 1: top the top of your femur. Okay, where your your 537 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: femur actually fits into that ballen socket, that joint right there. 538 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: That the head as it's referred to, the head of 539 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: the femur, is arguably one of the most robust, dense 540 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: bones in the body. But guess what else it contains. 541 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 1: It has vessels in there, Okay, and so anything that 542 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 1: is in there is there is a possibility that you 543 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 1: can actually there's a possibility that you can actually extract 544 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: data from there if you will. I know that sounds 545 00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: very computer like, but you know, data is really what 546 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: we're looking for. And it's interesting here kind of backing 547 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: up just for a second. One of the things that 548 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: was done, and this is a quote, the right femeral 549 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: head of femeral fragment and femur head is retained for 550 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: toxicology testing prior to release for forensic anthropology examination. So 551 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 1: what they did, Dave is given the status of this 552 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: bone one of two things happened. Either the head of 553 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: the femur was fragmented off and they retained it, or 554 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 1: and I've seen this done before, they went to the 555 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 1: shaft just beneath the head of the femur and they 556 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: used a striker saw and they cut the thing right 557 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: into and they held onto the entire head of the femur. 558 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 1: And if you're holding onto the entire head of the 559 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: femur when you begin to test this thing, because you're 560 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 1: going to it's a destructive test. It's you I don't 561 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 1: you know people talk about destructive and non destructive. This 562 00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,720 Speaker 1: is a destructive test. So you want the biggest opportunity 563 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 1: of sample at that point, tom, So. 564 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 2: You ruin it. 565 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 1: You don't. It's gone, baby, it's gone. And so that's 566 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 1: that's apparently what they did here. They retain that and 567 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 1: then they turned everything over to to the forensic anthropologist. 568 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: So they would have had to sit down with the 569 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 1: forensic anthropologists say listen, we did this to the bone, 570 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: and I want you to think that some kind of 571 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 1: dismemberment has taken place or anything like that. And there 572 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 1: is a forensic anthropologist that's actually mentioned in the autopsy report, 573 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: and it would have been their job to examine the bone. 574 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: So they're examining essentially a headless femur or fragmented UH 575 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 1: femur that has been extracted. It was fragmented, and they 576 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 1: try to contain everything. But how do we get to 577 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 1: this point? Well, what has to happen is essentially, I'm 578 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 1: going to try to put this in as simple as 579 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: terms as possible. They take a solid sample of bone 580 00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: and they will drop it into a tube and they're 581 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:07,240 Speaker 1: essentially going to bombard this thing and use the methodology 582 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:12,279 Speaker 1: that's called a SE. It's it's called accelerated solvent extraction, 583 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:18,439 Speaker 1: and the idea is to bring out as much of 584 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 1: the content of that bone that can be analyzed, and 585 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:27,280 Speaker 1: they're going to throw this thing into a mass spect 586 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 1: machine mass spectrometry to take a look and see what 587 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: they can find in there. Because there's certain there's certain 588 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 1: base elements you're going to find in bone, and we 589 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 1: always hear about this. You need to, you know, eat 590 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,279 Speaker 1: plenty of calcium. When you have calcium in your diet 591 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 1: and all this, you're going to expect to find minerals 592 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,400 Speaker 1: like that, but what you're not going to expect to 593 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:54,239 Speaker 1: find is animal tranquilizer and in this particular case, hold 594 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 1: onto your hat, that's what they found in the head 595 00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:02,800 Speaker 1: of this femur. So I cannot imagine. I can only 596 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:07,360 Speaker 1: imagine right now because this again, you've got a doctoral 597 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,520 Speaker 1: level forensic toxicologist at the State crime Lab that's involved 598 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,320 Speaker 1: in this now, and I can just imagine they're sitting 599 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 1: there in their lab. They're in their white lab coat. 600 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,880 Speaker 1: This thing has been taken to the state, to the 601 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,239 Speaker 1: State lab. The forensic toxicologists is sitting there and they 602 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:29,120 Speaker 1: had they had like this all of a sudden, this 603 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,840 Speaker 1: clarity came upon when they began to read this test 604 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 1: and they were like, holy smokes, looks what's Look, what's contained? 605 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 1: I think there are people out there that would like 606 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,320 Speaker 1: to know this information. Immediately, they're picking up the phone 607 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:44,880 Speaker 1: the five doctors. They're calling the five doctors at this 608 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 1: point in time, say hold on a minute, has Well, 609 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,439 Speaker 1: You've got something to tell you that you're not going 610 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 1: to believe. We're going to send the full report, but 611 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,759 Speaker 1: I got to tell you just over the phone. This 612 00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 1: is a gigantic piece of information because Dave, the compot 613 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 1: that we're talking about here is used in tranquilizer darts 614 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:10,319 Speaker 1: to literally sedate animals. What was it you told me 615 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,399 Speaker 1: about what one of the compounds? There's essentially I think 616 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 1: six compounds in here. Yeah, one of the compounds you 617 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 1: had said you said something about a large A large animal. 618 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:24,720 Speaker 2: Dude, I'm not trying to be disrespectful, and I say, no, really, 619 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 2: I don't even know how to pronounce this thing. Okay, 620 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 2: but it's a sedative. I looked it up. It's a 621 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:38,839 Speaker 2: sedative used commonly used for pigs and elephants. Who is 622 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 2: going to ingest a sedative for pigs and elephants when 623 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 2: you can find human ones not far away? 624 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's uh, it's it's certainly well, it's certainly intriguing, 625 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:56,319 Speaker 1: I think from from an investigative standpoint. And yeah, I think, Dave, 626 00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:00,440 Speaker 1: the the one that you're actually referring to here is 627 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:07,399 Speaker 1: the ASA prone, which is actually it's used. Okay, here, 628 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,800 Speaker 1: let me paint this picture for you. Imagine you You 629 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:10,279 Speaker 1: got to have. 630 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 2: Me understand it, Joe, because this is really messed with 631 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 2: my head in the last couple of hours. 632 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 1: Well just imagine, just imagine you've got a charging elephant 633 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 1: coming at you, but you don't want to kill the elephant. 634 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 1: All right now, it's certainly going to take a higher dose, say, 635 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 1: for instance, than if you were shooting I don't know 636 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:33,400 Speaker 1: raccoons or squirrels or foxes in your backyard, but it would. 637 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 1: It would. It has been used to sedate elephants, Dave. 638 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,360 Speaker 1: And so it's and it's not just that it doesn't 639 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:46,280 Speaker 1: simply just kind of stand alone. There are other elements 640 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 1: to this compound that all mix in, and every single 641 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:56,080 Speaker 1: one of them has has something to do with sedation, 642 00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:00,080 Speaker 1: anti anxiety, all these sorts of things. So if you 643 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,759 Speaker 1: if you hit somebody up, say for instance, with this substance, 644 00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 1: they're pretty quickly they're gonna get weak need David. Uh, 645 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 1: they're gonna get to the point where they're not gonna 646 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:14,320 Speaker 1: be able to function. 647 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:15,239 Speaker 2: Uh. 648 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:19,759 Speaker 1: If you've if you've ever, if anyone out there has 649 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:24,759 Speaker 1: ever had anesthesia, that that first burst of drugs that 650 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 1: they give you to kind of get you ready for 651 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,240 Speaker 1: surgery where you kind of get that milky warm feeling. 652 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 1: It's one of the best feelings in the world. You know, 653 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,919 Speaker 1: you don't care about anything else, there's no anxiety. You're 654 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,840 Speaker 1: gonna go through that, and then all of a sudden 655 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 1: because of these other compounds that are in here. When 656 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,840 Speaker 1: you mix them together, darkness is gonna wash over you. 657 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,440 Speaker 1: And they ain't a damn thing you knew about it. 658 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,160 Speaker 1: Because it's in your system. Your body begins to metabolize 659 00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:58,160 Speaker 1: this thing. You're uptaking this stuff, and it's hard. It's 660 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,440 Speaker 1: hard to know. I know that they're be a lethal 661 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,400 Speaker 1: level with these substances. I think that more is going 662 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 1: to come out because look, we still don't have the 663 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 1: toxicology report at this point, we don't even have the 664 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 1: anthropology report. All we have is this four page report 665 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:18,279 Speaker 1: that was issued from the medical examiner. You know, to 666 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,120 Speaker 1: all interested parties, there's going to be a lot more 667 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:25,359 Speaker 1: of this to come. But you know, we not only 668 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,839 Speaker 1: did they recover bones out there, they've got remnant of 669 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:33,520 Speaker 1: clothing as well. That's found in this grave with Suzanne. 670 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 1: More few and it's a lot of it is kind 671 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:44,959 Speaker 1: of fragmented and ragged. But what really struck me, Dave, 672 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:50,960 Speaker 1: was the fact that they found they found a bullet. 673 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:58,640 Speaker 1: They found a bullet out there, So what sense do 674 00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:05,320 Speaker 1: we make of this? Can we actually appreciate a gunshot 675 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:11,680 Speaker 1: wound in bone? Possibly? But here's the rub. It has 676 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 1: to have passed through a bony structure and have left 677 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:21,560 Speaker 1: a fracture that would have occurred not postmortem, but anti mortem, 678 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,520 Speaker 1: and they can suss that out. They can actually make 679 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:31,399 Speaker 1: sense of that. And can you tie that projectile back 680 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,920 Speaker 1: to a very particular weapon, because here's another thing that 681 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,919 Speaker 1: wasn't mentioned. We don't know what caliber is. We only 682 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:43,600 Speaker 1: know that we've got a weathered projectile that is found 683 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:47,279 Speaker 1: there in the dirt adjacent to this woman's body that 684 00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:54,480 Speaker 1: is now skeletonized with tattered clothing, and she's got tranquilizers 685 00:40:55,000 --> 00:41:01,120 Speaker 1: in her in the head of her femur. 686 00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:02,799 Speaker 2: Y diferent types. Joe and this and the bullet, those 687 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 2: two things come to mind because you found the cap 688 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,080 Speaker 2: for the needle bit you used in a dark gun. 689 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,080 Speaker 2: They found that in the dryer. And by the way, 690 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:14,400 Speaker 2: Barry Morphew said he did that he used these tranquilizers 691 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,719 Speaker 2: for deer, that he would shoot them so that he 692 00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:22,160 Speaker 2: could harvest their antlers. I'd never heard that before, but 693 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,719 Speaker 2: that's the kind that's yeah, that's why, that's why they 694 00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:26,799 Speaker 2: found the cap in the dryer. It must have just 695 00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:30,560 Speaker 2: been in my pocket. Of course, that doesn't explain anything else. 696 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:32,600 Speaker 2: But they also found the bullet. Next wee well down 697 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,359 Speaker 2: in these parts. Yeah, goottle boys put on their put 698 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,160 Speaker 2: on their boots and their blue jeans and they go 699 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,880 Speaker 2: walking through the woods. You could find you know, you 700 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:41,759 Speaker 2: can find racks just laying on the ground if you 701 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:43,680 Speaker 2: know where to look, and you're looking for rub on 702 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:45,239 Speaker 2: the tree and all that sort of thing. But you're 703 00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:49,000 Speaker 2: telling me you're going to tranquilize a deer, which I 704 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,240 Speaker 2: think out there that have mule deer which are bigger 705 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:53,200 Speaker 2: than our white tail deer. I guess it is white 706 00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,160 Speaker 2: tail too. I guess you're gonna take it. What are 707 00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:56,960 Speaker 2: you gonna do? Take a saw and saw it off 708 00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:58,319 Speaker 2: their head? I don't know. 709 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,560 Speaker 1: I've never I've never heard this. I heard it, you know, 710 00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:06,560 Speaker 1: when these initial reports came. But I'm fascinated by this because, yeah, 711 00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,680 Speaker 1: we've got the tranquil we've got the elements that go 712 00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:14,160 Speaker 1: along with this thing. But Bubba, we've got we've got 713 00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,759 Speaker 1: this doll gone round that's out there. I want to 714 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:21,480 Speaker 1: know what the caliber is and also the status of 715 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,400 Speaker 1: the round. Is it deformed in any way? Did it 716 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:29,640 Speaker 1: pass through multiple bony structures in the body, Is it 717 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:31,279 Speaker 1: Is it a round that could have been a hollow 718 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:35,960 Speaker 1: point that mushroomed. Is it a tiny round I don't know, 719 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:41,080 Speaker 1: like a twenty five caliber three eighty or a twenty 720 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:44,960 Speaker 1: two caliber. I'd be very fascinated by that. I'd want 721 00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,440 Speaker 1: to know. Or is it a rifle round. You know, 722 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,200 Speaker 1: if it's a rifle round, it's going to be kind 723 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:56,040 Speaker 1: of robust, you know, seven point six y two perhaps 724 00:42:56,160 --> 00:43:00,319 Speaker 1: or less so five point five six. I want to 725 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:05,960 Speaker 1: know what this round was and what type of weapon 726 00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:10,440 Speaker 1: was it fired from. And also if you've got a projectile. 727 00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,560 Speaker 1: If you've got a projectile, to me, that means that 728 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,520 Speaker 1: they used a metal detector out there. How big a 729 00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:21,560 Speaker 1: sweeping area did you cover out there when you're doing 730 00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:25,000 Speaker 1: your search all over the place. Did you recover a 731 00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,160 Speaker 1: spent casing. If it's a spent casing, then we automatically 732 00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,759 Speaker 1: know that this is a semi automatic handgun. If it 733 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:36,000 Speaker 1: is a handgun and it ejected, didn't find it. But 734 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:42,520 Speaker 1: if it's a revolver. If it's a revolver, that means 735 00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:51,040 Speaker 1: that whoever fired this projectile walked away with the spent 736 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,279 Speaker 1: casing still contained in the cylinder of that revolver. And 737 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,479 Speaker 1: that's one of the things that you're looking for here. 738 00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:01,400 Speaker 1: I think that there's a lot more to come on 739 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:06,480 Speaker 1: this case, David, but I don't know if it offers 740 00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:11,160 Speaker 1: anybody really any peace. I think that maybe we're a 741 00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:16,440 Speaker 1: less we might be a bit less confused, But I 742 00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:24,040 Speaker 1: know this. It seems as though that when her body, 743 00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:29,719 Speaker 1: Susan Morphew, her body was removed from that hole in 744 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:34,759 Speaker 1: the ground and that hard, hard soil with her, came 745 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:43,480 Speaker 1: some answers, but also amountain of questions. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, 746 00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:46,120 Speaker 1: and this is body matter.