Speaker 1: Also media.
Speaker 2: Hey everyone, it's me James. I just wanted to do
Speaker 2: very quick introduction to the episode. We have split into
Speaker 2: two parts because it went longer than we expected, so
Speaker 2: you hear the first part to day, and you will
Speaker 2: hear the second part tomorrow.
Speaker 3: Welcome everyone to It's could Happen here. My name is
Speaker 3: Mick and I'm here with the lovely James Stouts and
Speaker 3: the lovely Molly Conger. How are you guys doing.
Speaker 2: I'm great, so excited. I just love valve France. I
Speaker 2: love all things French. I've had such great times in France.
Speaker 2: I just particularly love like French identitarianism. So I'm excited
Speaker 2: you love French. No, it's love it with like like.
Speaker 4: France, James out huge.
Speaker 2: I just love like like the the idea, like of
Speaker 2: the among nations like France is chosen one. It's just like.
Speaker 2: I'm not particularly anti French, but it is quite funny
Speaker 2: to me.
Speaker 5: James travels to France every year to go to what
Speaker 5: do they still have generation identity?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I and every year they say, oh, well that
Speaker 2: your accent is not correct. You've not used vo in
Speaker 2: the in the requisite time. Therefore you are no longer
Speaker 2: welcome here. I went to France once with some Quebecquar friends.
Speaker 2: This is a funny, like low key identity story. I've
Speaker 2: already derailed this foc. Don't worry, don't worry. I went
Speaker 2: with two Quebecquar friends and we like doing something official
Speaker 2: and I did it, conducted my thing in French. It
Speaker 2: was fine. I speak French and this wasn't an issue
Speaker 2: for me. And then they went up at this woman
Speaker 2: just when you don't speak French, sir, and then began
Speaker 2: addressing them in English because she was unwilling to accept
Speaker 2: the co called Quebecua in France.
Speaker 4: That's so mean.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I for one am excited to hear about
Speaker 5: I don't know a lot about this guy.
Speaker 6: No, he's a weird little guy, my favorite kind of guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, notably, which is why I asked you. I'm
Speaker 3: also just recovering from like an English person here saying
Speaker 3: that they love friends. But that must that must be
Speaker 3: like a historically first time that that good.
Speaker 2: Place to race bikes. It's a good place to if
Speaker 2: you like to hang out in the mountains and race bikes.
Speaker 2: Pretty much France, Spain, maybe Italy is where it's at I.
Speaker 4: Visited once and I didn't. I don't know.
Speaker 5: People are always saying that you are so cruel to Americans.
Speaker 5: That wasn't my experience, but most people long enough, Yeah,
Speaker 5: it's And you know, I'll always treasure the week that
Speaker 5: I spent in Paris because it is the only reason
Speaker 5: I didn't get deported from Germany for visa violations.
Speaker 3: Okay, that that is a story I actually want to
Speaker 3: hear after we're done recording. So but yeah, we're talking
Speaker 3: about French identitarianism, French Nazis. But before you start, James,
Speaker 3: I want to ask you a very important question. First,
Speaker 3: you have a podcasting honorary degree, a PhD.
Speaker 2: I've heard that's right, Yeah, me and Joe Rogan both.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, And I just must ask, how do you
Speaker 3: deal with the recurring trauma of having to hear your
Speaker 3: own voice on recording.
Speaker 2: I play it at one point five time speed, so
Speaker 2: it doesn't sound like me.
Speaker 7: I was very curious about that.
Speaker 3: I've also had a fair shriff having to hear my
Speaker 3: own voice, and it just doesn't get any easier.
Speaker 5: No, I thought I would struggle with it because I
Speaker 5: hate the sound of my own voice in casual context.
Speaker 5: But like listening to my own podcast, I guess because
Speaker 5: I talk like this on my podcast and it sounds
Speaker 5: a little different, right, So it's like.
Speaker 2: Oh, you go into podcast mode. Yeah, yeah, I have some.
Speaker 4: Sort of terry gross thing cooking.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, yeah, I'll try that. Okay, yeah, I'll do
Speaker 2: my Molly voice next time.
Speaker 6: Well, see that, this is the kind of information that
Speaker 6: I need to cope with.
Speaker 4: Now you have to form an alter ego.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh, like a into your podcast self a
Speaker 2: podcast the doctor Checkle and mister Hyde exactly.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Podcasting is just the id of every man. Every white
Speaker 2: guy in the world has a podcasting id.
Speaker 7: This is Freud would have loved this era.
Speaker 6: He wouldn't.
Speaker 2: You don't have to psychoanalyze anyone anymore because they just.
Speaker 6: Say shit, just say it.
Speaker 4: They'll just say it.
Speaker 2: They put it on true social like it's not fun anymore.
Speaker 2: He'd be bored.
Speaker 3: Well, that would be counteracted by like the higher quality
Speaker 3: cocaine that we have right now compared to his era.
Speaker 3: You would also be prosecuted for feeding his children cocaine.
Speaker 3: So you know, you win some, you lose some.
Speaker 2: You never know. Deeffrey Epsteen got away with a lot
Speaker 2: of shit, like maybe maybe Freud could have joined the club.
Speaker 7: That's a horrifying mix of worlds that.
Speaker 4: Tell us about this French nanasy.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, okay, I'm just I'm starting with a bit
Speaker 3: of an introduction because this story actually.
Speaker 6: Happens in my hometown of Utrecht.
Speaker 7: Shit.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Somewhere midway through February, a message started to circulate in
Speaker 3: far right circles in the Netherlands. It originated from a
Speaker 3: group called Defense Netherlands, whom a public call to visit
Speaker 3: the AKU on the night of Thursday twenty sixth to
Speaker 3: remember Quentin killed in a cowardly manner by Antifa in
Speaker 3: Lyon earlier that month. Small side notes, all these groups
Speaker 3: are so proud of the Netherlands, but never used Dutch language.
Speaker 3: And it's huh, it's my personal pet, peeve.
Speaker 2: Did you any English?
Speaker 7: Yeah, they call themselves like Defend Netherlands.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's called Defend. It's not translated. It's it's not translated.
Speaker 5: That's so interesting I find with European Nazi groups used
Speaker 5: primarily English.
Speaker 4: It is because it is for an American audience.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're trying to communicate something.
Speaker 4: Because Americans only speak English.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but anyway, that was the message that was circulated
Speaker 3: on Instagram and telegram. The top of the in which
Speaker 3: that was shared showed a Celtic cross, a symbol with
Speaker 3: a Christian and pagan origins but politically often used by
Speaker 3: white supremacists and neo fascist groups. At the bottom is
Speaker 3: an Italian slogan in orange letters, the national color of
Speaker 3: the Netherlands, reading pertuti camarati kaluti presente. The slogan originates
Speaker 3: from the Italian fascist movements and means for our fallen
Speaker 3: comrades present, signaling that the fallen comrades are present in spirit.
Speaker 3: I can hear you all thinking, what the fuck has
Speaker 3: the death in France to do with the political community
Speaker 3: center in the Netherlands, because that is what accuous. It's
Speaker 3: a community center. There's concerts, there's a bar, sometimes there's fundraisers.
Speaker 3: There's nothing openness going on there, but lots of more
Speaker 3: left leaning people visit there, which is I think why.
Speaker 7: It was the original target.
Speaker 3: So but to understand how it came to be that
Speaker 3: the death of French Nazi caused threats to a Dutch bar,
Speaker 3: we'll have to explore the circumstances of the death of
Speaker 3: Quentin Drank.
Speaker 5: Drank, you're asking the wrong crowd speaks French French.
Speaker 2: I guess it's the hunk, like what the ei a
Speaker 2: n k e u e duhon qud.
Speaker 7: Okay, I will I will butcher this pronunciation.
Speaker 2: It's okay if it's an.
Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly, it's okay.
Speaker 2: I it's friend that money money's now going to get
Speaker 2: kicked out of Paris never again. He's a law of money.
Speaker 7: Okay, I'll help you circumvent Dutch fees a la.
Speaker 6: Don't worry.
Speaker 3: But Durand Rank was a far right activist who died
Speaker 3: on February fourteenth after a violent altercation between the far
Speaker 3: right and the far left. I also want to make
Speaker 3: like a broad disclaimer regardless of where anyone listening to
Speaker 3: this stance politically, I'm still going to say this was tragic.
Speaker 3: Quentin was only twenty three, barely an adult, and as
Speaker 3: much as his worldview and politics were vile, cruel, and
Speaker 3: pretty much everything I'm personally opposed to, it was still
Speaker 3: a son, a friend, and a family member that that's
Speaker 3: not coming home.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I think it's always a tragic thing for someone to
Speaker 5: get beaten to death in the street, or at least almost.
Speaker 6: Always, almost almost always.
Speaker 5: But you know, I'm not saying it's wrong to punch
Speaker 5: a Nazi in the face, but I think beating a
Speaker 5: young man to death is probably not necessary in this case.
Speaker 3: Definitely, And I don't want to make it come off
Speaker 3: like this as a celebration of some sorts, because it's not.
Speaker 6: It's a tragedy.
Speaker 3: And as much as the world will be a better
Speaker 3: place without his politics, I still think it's within my
Speaker 3: own moral lines to say, like, fuck, it shouldn't have happened.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think that's important to acknowledge upfront, because
Speaker 5: I think correct me if I'm wrong. I don't know
Speaker 5: exactly where the conversation is going, but from what I
Speaker 5: have seen in you know, following a bunch of telegram
Speaker 5: chats from Nazis all over the world. And I haven't
Speaker 5: engaged really with this story. I don't know a lot
Speaker 5: about it, but I see his name a lot, so
Speaker 5: his death has become something that isn't really about him.
Speaker 5: It's not about the tragic death of a young man,
Speaker 5: even to the people who are celebrating his life and
Speaker 5: using his as a political tool, right it's like, it's
Speaker 5: not about the tragedy of his death for the people
Speaker 5: who would have been his friends.
Speaker 3: No, And I think we could add some asterisks later
Speaker 3: on with friends.
Speaker 5: Because he wasn't white, wasn't he was half I think
Speaker 5: his mother was Peruvian, half Peruvian exactly.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Anyway, sorry, sorry to derail me.
Speaker 7: No, that's fine.
Speaker 5: His death is tragic, and I think that is a
Speaker 5: much more generous read of the situation than many of
Speaker 5: his comrades would actually have.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And also it's like, if I'm going to celebrate it,
Speaker 3: then I'm no better than they would be, other than
Speaker 3: being on another different political aisle.
Speaker 7: So but those two.
Speaker 3: Things can exist at the same time. But to get
Speaker 3: back who was Quintin. He was a student at Leon University.
Speaker 3: I've read contradictory reports on what it exactly was that
Speaker 3: he studied, but it was in the general area of
Speaker 3: mathematics and data science. Around his late teens, he converted
Speaker 3: to Catholicism, and outside of his studies, he was passionate
Speaker 3: about philosophy and ethics, specifically Saint Thomas Aquinas and Saint Augustine.
Speaker 3: Those close to him who had spoken with the media
Speaker 3: and describe him as more of a buquirum than violent activist.
Speaker 3: Few quotes here to underline that he was a normal
Speaker 3: young man who had reconnected with his roots, who loved
Speaker 3: this country, his people, his civilization, his religion.
Speaker 7: Quentin belongs to the legend. He is already a hero and
Speaker 7: a barter.
Speaker 2: Well well, yeah.
Speaker 4: These are the things said by the people who loved him.
Speaker 6: This was a friend of his who spoke to the media.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, you always hear this about I mean,
Speaker 5: I don't know anything about Quentin specifically, but just because
Speaker 5: someone close to him said he was he was a
Speaker 5: nice boy, he was never violent.
Speaker 4: You heard that about mass shooters.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, great, iss all exactly.
Speaker 3: And apparently he was so devout in his Catholicism that
Speaker 3: he managed to convince several family members to convert, which
Speaker 3: led to him because among his own father's godfather.
Speaker 5: Wow, if you're an adult convert, anyone can be your
Speaker 5: sponsor any other baptized Catholic adult.
Speaker 4: Everybody can confirmed Catholic a all.
Speaker 3: But it still feels weird to be It's like, who's
Speaker 3: going to give who presents in in that dynamic?
Speaker 2: Or Yah, what's the Christmas dynamic?
Speaker 7: Now?
Speaker 2: Does he do you get do you get too?
Speaker 7: Exactly?
Speaker 2: Otherwise they've just shorted you right like someone else could it,
Speaker 2: any any adult Catholic could have done that, and his
Speaker 2: dad will be cashing in now exactly.
Speaker 3: And now now it's just an equal trait, uh sort
Speaker 3: of yeah, because they have to give each other presents.
Speaker 3: The image painted have Quinta in the early days of
Speaker 3: the coverage after his death overwhelmingly.
Speaker 6: Attempted to paint him as.
Speaker 3: Like this devout person, as a curious bystander who was
Speaker 3: either at the wrong place at the wrong time, or
Speaker 3: ominously targeted by left wing militants. This narrative seemed to
Speaker 3: dominate until his Twitter accounts were found, so.
Speaker 7: You already know where this is going.
Speaker 2: Great.
Speaker 3: One of the first posts he bade was about his
Speaker 3: support for the repeal of the Plevin and Guisa laws,
Speaker 3: which are French laws that prohibit all acaust denial, among
Speaker 3: other things. Subsequent posts throughout the following years were frequently antisemitic, racist, Islamophobic, fascist,
Speaker 3: and homophobic. There will be some quotes later on. What
Speaker 3: stood out to me most is that he seemed to
Speaker 3: have like a very theoretical underpinning for his beliefs. This
Speaker 3: is also a recurring theme that he seemed much more
Speaker 3: ideologically constructed in his beliefs rather than your run of
Speaker 3: the mill or your proud boy who are just like
Speaker 3: straight dugs.
Speaker 7: Essentially.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, the French really do excel at sort
Speaker 5: of academic anti semitism. He's really I mean, that's he's
Speaker 5: getting back to his French identity.
Speaker 3: Right exactly, yeah, exactly, Unlike most French academics. Half of
Speaker 3: the things are completely impossible to understand.
Speaker 6: So another quote from Quinn in here, a fascist is
Speaker 6: someone who supports fascism, someone who affirms the premacy of
Speaker 6: the state over the individual. He wants the state to
Speaker 6: be a regenerative force of a moral order and to
Speaker 6: unite the nation. He opposes liberalism and Marxism.
Speaker 2: So if he hadn't had it that last caveat, it
Speaker 2: could be describing like a Stalinist, right like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's why it was added. He just
Speaker 3: copy pasted it.
Speaker 4: And also, by the way, those commies.
Speaker 3: Yeah all right, yes, the anti Tanky brigade has arrived.
Speaker 3: So sometimes he would also correct others or less informed
Speaker 3: writing activists, and he said fascists and anti fascists literally
Speaker 3: have two opposing visions of society. Political violence is not
Speaker 3: unique to fascists. It is intrinsic to politics when you
Speaker 3: have a bit of character, a bit of character.
Speaker 5: Oh well, well, yeah, that's I mean ironic, I suppose, yeah,
Speaker 5: that's one, or rather because it's not ironic.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there is a broken clock moment in there in that, Like,
Speaker 3: political violence is not unique to fascists.
Speaker 6: But then but they tend to use it more.
Speaker 5: I would like you know, I was racking my brain
Speaker 5: thinking about, you know, sort of street deaths of this
Speaker 5: nature that I'm familiar with in my work about you know,
Speaker 5: white supremacist violence.
Speaker 4: They're usually the ones doing the killing.
Speaker 5: Sure there's political violence not unique to fascism, but they
Speaker 5: sure do love it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if they have embraced it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but when thinking about the state and then how
Speaker 3: the state itself is like a violence machine absolutely sort of.
Speaker 7: Supports the status quo.
Speaker 3: That's where I'm seeing the broken clock moments and yeah, good,
Speaker 3: did you notice a bolly bit about you need to
Speaker 3: have a bit of character because that also comes back
Speaker 3: later or on the twitters. He also commented about voting
Speaker 3: for Fortress Europe, a fringe French political party led by
Speaker 3: Pierre Marie Bono that made its campaign revolve around the
Speaker 3: repeal of same sex marriage, reproduct of rights and the
Speaker 3: creation of a nationality codes and a new form of
Speaker 3: the country's population census with additional religious and ethnic related criteria.
Speaker 3: So like, already you know exactly what type of conservative
Speaker 3: this guy was. Yeah, there were also a lot of
Speaker 3: it that sort of very racist terms against black and
Speaker 3: Muslim people, involving hearts are and words, including explicit calls
Speaker 3: from murder. He used the acronym TND, which stands for
Speaker 3: Total N Words depth.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, so I can kind of guess where he
Speaker 5: was hanging out online.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well he's really in deep.
Speaker 6: Well Twitter should have been enough of the red flag
Speaker 6: for that, to be honest.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's truated to probably you could get that whole
Speaker 2: world view just from x dot com only everything.
Speaker 5: But he's reposting like T and D type content like
Speaker 5: this is this is not a guy who was just
Speaker 5: reading Thomas Aquinas.
Speaker 3: No, you get what I'm saying, But no one should
Speaker 3: read Thomas Aquinas to be honest. Neither Saint Augustine. I've
Speaker 3: read both some and hypnostick. What I do find very
Speaker 3: interesting was a particular tweet in which he compared African
Speaker 3: migration to German occupation, where he expressed his preference for
Speaker 3: doughlecoselethic blondes over blacks with large nostrils and disproportionate lips.
Speaker 3: Oh that's great, and that's a very nice scrabble word
Speaker 3: for those of you that play. It's a patholatic choice
Speaker 3: of words. It comes from nineteenth century anthropology, back when
Speaker 3: anthropology was more problematic than it is now. It's like
Speaker 3: scientific racism pretty much. It comes from cephalometry, the measuring
Speaker 3: of skulls and crania.
Speaker 2: Yes, I love a good calaper guy.
Speaker 3: Oology Now this was like a branching off of prenology. Okay,
Speaker 3: I dove into this because it was like, the fuck
Speaker 3: is he saying? Yeah, But essentially it was used to
Speaker 3: make different races, and of course the Aryan race was
Speaker 3: the best one.
Speaker 6: Though les Co Sephalic refers.
Speaker 3: Specifically to the Aryan white race. What he essentially said
Speaker 3: is that I prefer to be occupied by white people.
Speaker 3: So great guy. And then this is also how I
Speaker 3: come back to like how well read he was in
Speaker 3: this garbage, because those are not terms that you typically
Speaker 3: find when you're you're researching Nazis or like the Nazi discourse.
Speaker 6: It almost is like an academic level of I mean,
Speaker 6: that's very French, very French.
Speaker 3: Well, it's reminded me of like quaintance of yours, Molly
Speaker 3: Richard Spencer, who I think wants I'm not sure if
Speaker 3: I can.
Speaker 4: Oh, he does love to let you know that he's
Speaker 4: read philosophy.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, he's not a common gutter racist. He's read papers,
Speaker 5: he's read anthropology.
Speaker 3: We can bleep the following word out because I'm not
Speaker 3: too into like American discourse to know if I can
Speaker 3: say this, but I think at some point he referred
Speaker 3: to like people of African ancestry as or taroons.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's an.
Speaker 5: It's a very obscure, like old racial slur. Like it's
Speaker 5: something like my great great grandparents would have.
Speaker 7: Said, yea exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a fascinating Yeah. They love to flag so
Speaker 2: they have read a book.
Speaker 5: The N word is for common racist, I know, old
Speaker 5: fashioned racist.
Speaker 2: They genuinely do see themselves above in the hierarchy of
Speaker 2: people who say that, though like that.
Speaker 4: With well James has half a PhD, right.
Speaker 5: PH he had he had to drop out of his
Speaker 5: PhD program to pursue a career in professional racism.
Speaker 2: I see. Ah, to be fair, many people in the
Speaker 2: in the PhD academia world could have done.
Speaker 4: That, pursue a career in professional racism.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, yeah, that's the thing I have observed in
Speaker 2: the academy.
Speaker 6: I believe that instantly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you could argue in fact that in some disciplines
Speaker 2: have a PhD is pursuing a career in professional racism.
Speaker 6: Now, I'm very curious as to what those disciplines are like.
Speaker 2: In anthropology more than fifty years ago. Oh yes, oh,
Speaker 2: de definitely it would be the obvious one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's as an anthropologist, Yeah, very much, very much true.
Speaker 3: I could say it's it's less bad now nowadays that
Speaker 3: it was fifty or years ago, but still there. Yeah,
Speaker 3: definitely that there's still improvements to be made. And speaking
Speaker 3: of improvements, you are the products and services that support
Speaker 3: this podcast.
Speaker 6: God save and we're back.
Speaker 3: So we left off with Quentin being on the twitters
Speaker 3: and saying Twitter things there, and what you will gathereds
Speaker 3: from this right now is that despite what his friends
Speaker 3: and family and fellow fascists said he was definitely not
Speaker 3: as peaceful or as harmless as they tried to portray him.
Speaker 3: In the wake of his death, he was also getting
Speaker 3: increasingly involved with far right self defense groups, among possible others,
Speaker 3: Active Club France.
Speaker 4: Oh that's a NATTI group.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you don't say, my poor philosophy student. With
Speaker 3: those people, he had regular interactions with them, also with
Speaker 3: das Leon, who provided combat trainings in a local park.
Speaker 3: Their slogans are nothing new or interesting. White people need
Speaker 3: to defend themselves against migration and the left. What was
Speaker 3: interesting was one of these training sessions was with toy knives,
Speaker 3: where they had the practice like dueling against each other,
Speaker 3: and to everyone's surprise, Quintin managed to defeat several people
Speaker 3: because he was.
Speaker 4: Very He's kind of a s probaty little guy.
Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: He studied the way of the blade.
Speaker 4: Blade.
Speaker 2: Yeah, specifically.
Speaker 3: I have not found a bench Shapiro Ninja photo of him,
Speaker 3: but it would have been appropriate.
Speaker 7: At this point.
Speaker 3: I'm now quoting a little bit from media parts that
Speaker 3: also the ones who unearthed a lot of his tweets.
Speaker 3: In the spring of twenty twenty five, Quentin launched a
Speaker 3: small group in Bourgeois Jalieu the ada Alo.
Speaker 6: Bourgeois sorry to the French speakers, sounded good to me. Yeah.
Speaker 3: On May tenth in Paris, he was photographed wearing a
Speaker 3: partially covered by a neckwarmer and participated with a small
Speaker 3: group into a neo Nazi march that was organized annually
Speaker 3: in homage to a member of the Bititanist group le'vre Francois,
Speaker 3: who died in nineteen ninety four. Alog Bourgeois also paid
Speaker 3: tribute to Jean Marie le Pin one year after the
Speaker 3: death of the founder of the National Front. They now
Speaker 3: go by the Supplement and Nacional r N. I suppose
Speaker 3: it's a rebranding exercise. So at this point, I think
Speaker 3: amongst ourselves we can agree that he was not a
Speaker 3: particularly innocent philosopher or good hearted, saintly person. It feels
Speaker 3: much more like he was someone who acted on his beliefs, a.
Speaker 5: Neo Nazi and someone who is a member of several
Speaker 5: violent neo Nazi organizations.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that tends to be like a very strict causation
Speaker 3: between hanging out with those groups and being one.
Speaker 5: And I would be very curious to know sort of
Speaker 5: what order these things happened in was his conversion to
Speaker 5: Catholicism part of his descent into these neo Nazi groups,
Speaker 5: because this is the sort of traditionalist Catholicism he was
Speaker 5: involved in. Because it looks like he was involved in
Speaker 5: Academia Christiana, which is yes, not that's not normal, that's
Speaker 5: not church, that's a Nazi group.
Speaker 3: Definitely, in so far as I can tell, I think
Speaker 3: his conversion happened earlier.
Speaker 5: So maybe a sincere conversion to Catholicism, but then he
Speaker 5: got involved in traditionalism, maybe as part of his entry
Speaker 5: into far right politics.
Speaker 4: I know these things are very intertwined.
Speaker 5: Given the like this, this Academia Christiana group was founded
Speaker 5: by one of the founders of Generation Identity, these things
Speaker 5: are overlapped completely. He wasn't just going to Catholic Church.
Speaker 5: He was going to a very extreme right wing, anti Semitic,
Speaker 5: identitarian traditionalist subgroup.
Speaker 7: Yeah, to the Westborough Baptist Church. Pretty much.
Speaker 4: French Catholicism.
Speaker 7: French Catholicism.
Speaker 3: I don't know how many groups we've insulted with that comparison.
Speaker 3: It's fine, well we'll have to have Italian.
Speaker 7: Oh, okay, then it's goods.
Speaker 3: But with that bit of context about like Quinton's background
Speaker 3: behind him, we're going to go to the faithful day
Speaker 3: of February twelfth when he was beaten. It was not
Speaker 3: fatally beaten, I have to say. But more on that
Speaker 3: a tiny bit later. On the day of February twelve,
Speaker 3: a French eupolemeritarian, a Palestinian woman named Rima Hassan, was
Speaker 3: giving a speech at the Leon Institute of Political Studies.
Speaker 3: Hassan is a member of the French far left party
Speaker 3: La Force Sums French Unbowed. A counter protest was announced
Speaker 3: by the far right feminist group Nemesis, for which some
Speaker 3: fascist groups volunteer to do security at the protest.
Speaker 5: Yeah, James, I see the look on your face. Girls
Speaker 5: can do fascism too.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm sorry you get get on the train, James.
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, women's rights and women's wrongs.
Speaker 6: This is the only women's wrongs I will ever support.
Speaker 5: I am curious what neo nazi feminism looks like, because
Speaker 5: they're not just like a women's fascist group there. Yeah,
Speaker 5: e fascist feminist group. What do you think those words mean, babe? Yeah,
Speaker 5: I'm gonna find out more about on my own time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, this is going to be her money's evening
Speaker 2: gets logged in.
Speaker 6: Now, yeah, I can give you some pointers.
Speaker 5: I'm familiar with women doing fascist organizing, but it's usually
Speaker 5: in sort of a very confined sure to a traditional
Speaker 5: female role.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so what are fascist feminists?
Speaker 2: It was like the cession feminina of Francoist if if
Speaker 2: that's any indication, but maybe so.
Speaker 5: Yeah, he was just being a gentleman providing security for
Speaker 5: these girl boss Nazis.
Speaker 6: Pretty much. There is a very girl boss photo I found.
Speaker 3: I'll pull it up in a bit, but yeah, they
Speaker 3: are identitarian air quotes feminists who blame all sexual violence
Speaker 3: on people of color and Muslims.
Speaker 6: Here it is okay, great, Yeah, we knew this was coming.
Speaker 4: I bet there are white boyfriends never never miss never.
Speaker 2: They respect to women depending on her race.
Speaker 7: And her politics. Of course.
Speaker 4: In the Beauty of the White Arian Woman, James Please.
Speaker 3: Founder and frequent guest on various French writing platforms, Alice
Speaker 3: Cordier was the one who founded this collective. They seem
Speaker 3: to have like a few hundred people in the collective,
Speaker 3: but like a very small inner circle of.
Speaker 7: Like twelve people.
Speaker 6: And Alice Cordier was already at the center of a controversy.
Speaker 7: On March tenth this year.
Speaker 3: Journalist Ricardo Pereira pushed a photo on Twitter of Alice
Speaker 3: mimicking an ass As symbol with her hands. And in
Speaker 3: this photo she's together with former Lyon Populaire member who
Speaker 3: is allegedly now fighting with the ass of a battalion
Speaker 3: in Ukraine.
Speaker 4: Wow, it's all coming together.
Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 6: So this is Alice doing an As symbol with her hands.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, exactly at her Okay, yeah, yeah, Wow.
Speaker 4: That looks very intentional.
Speaker 6: This doesn't seem like a gesture you would make by accident.
Speaker 2: M Alice Cordier based question, what does this sign mean?
Speaker 7: Exactly?
Speaker 3: And just because we were talking about the girl Boss, can.
Speaker 7: You see it?
Speaker 2: Oh wow yeah, oh wow, okay, well well they are
Speaker 2: Wow what a vibe.
Speaker 7: Yeah, definitely girl bosses.
Speaker 6: Mm hm.
Speaker 2: They have pant suit fascism.
Speaker 5: Business casual fascism for the woman in the workplace.
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, it's the other pantsuit nation.
Speaker 4: Yeah, an all white pantsuit nation.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah, although.
Speaker 6: Two of those women don't actually look Anglo Saxon.
Speaker 4: It's it's so interesting to me.
Speaker 6: That's something for the French to figure out French identity
Speaker 6: and national identity is different.
Speaker 4: It's more immigrants. Your grandparents were fine.
Speaker 3: Yeah, ladder up exactly, but now now it's starting to
Speaker 3: punch down on the other people who've had We don't
Speaker 3: have the opportunity use my parents had.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not a phenomenon that's unique to France.
Speaker 4: Oh no, No, I mean.
Speaker 2: Settler colonial country of the United States.
Speaker 6: French and colonialism, James. Really no, they never would do that.
Speaker 6: Not the French in all those places were parts of France.
Speaker 4: They're not still doing that.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 6: I think al Cheers would like to have a word with.
Speaker 3: You, Molly. That was Alice from a like the Nemesis Collective.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a collection of my nemesies now, yeah, like.
Speaker 3: That is the name I used when I was fourteen
Speaker 3: and I had to make up a character name when
Speaker 3: I was playing video games or something.
Speaker 7: It's like, it's not original.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is extremely teenage.
Speaker 3: Like Angel of Darkness, levels of cringe, something like that.
Speaker 7: Yeah. But what I found.
Speaker 3: Most frightening about these people, though, is they seem to
Speaker 3: be incredibly media sevy and cunning as a group. And
Speaker 3: to give you an example, in twenty twenty four, several
Speaker 3: members of this group infiltrated an anti far right protest
Speaker 3: in Paris. They had brought slogans highlighting legal convictions or
Speaker 3: trials from several high profile far left French politicians. This
Speaker 3: includes Jean Luca Malechon, who was convicted of inciting rebellion
Speaker 3: or revolution in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 7: That that's for the CP right, there.
Speaker 2: A thing for the French to make it illegal.
Speaker 5: That one cool thing we did, we'll noble do it again,
Speaker 5: never again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the best thing about France pulling the old
Speaker 2: ladder up behind them again.
Speaker 3: Exactly like there's no return to tradition if that's the
Speaker 3: thing you're going to make illegal.
Speaker 4: And I thought these guys were traditionalists.
Speaker 3: Exactly like same with the Dutch. We can't do it anymore,
Speaker 3: but I think back in the seventeen hundreds we literally
Speaker 3: clubbed some high functionary to death and ate him and
Speaker 3: his brother.
Speaker 2: We can't do it anymore, but we.
Speaker 3: Can't do it any just because of woke, because of
Speaker 3: exactly this is the this is the one.
Speaker 7: Dutch tradition I foolheartedly support.
Speaker 3: If you're upset with your elected of now well elected
Speaker 3: air quotes, because I don't think they were elected. Then
Speaker 3: now you know, some casual cannibalism might just do the trick.
Speaker 5: Well, if you guys bring back clubbing out of control
Speaker 5: elected officials, we could look the other way on some
Speaker 5: of your more questionable Christmas traditions.
Speaker 7: Oh, I know, if we could. That's not a Christmas tradition.
Speaker 6: But I know what you mean.
Speaker 2: I don't think I'm going to look the other way
Speaker 2: on that one. No, okay, it's the chimney sweep, guys,
Speaker 2: It's just a chimney sweep. It's fine.
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's uh.
Speaker 2: This what's called an Easter egg for listeners. You can
Speaker 2: google that in your own time.
Speaker 7: Don't google it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're going to see some racist ship.
Speaker 5: Back to this guy getting beaten to death, not to death,
Speaker 5: just being beaten.
Speaker 4: He did die.
Speaker 3: He did die, but apparently where everyone had flat he
Speaker 3: refused to go to the hospital despite several non activist
Speaker 3: bystanders like emphasiatic like hey, you should go to the hospital,
Speaker 3: and he did not. He walked for at least one
Speaker 3: and a half kilometers like a little more than a
Speaker 3: mile for the Americans, thank you, and he then collapsed
Speaker 3: and he was in a coma for two days in
Speaker 3: the hospital and then on Valentine's Day he died.
Speaker 4: That's a real bummer.
Speaker 3: So yeah, and that's also why I'm going to say,
Speaker 3: like that he wasn't fatally beaten, because I don't know
Speaker 3: if well.
Speaker 5: So, I mean, at least an American law, he did
Speaker 5: die of injuries inflicted from that beating, So you would
Speaker 5: say the people who inflicted that beating on him did
Speaker 5: cause his death. Yeah, So, I mean under American law,
Speaker 5: like if you get shot today and you die from
Speaker 5: a disability from that shooting ten years from now, you
Speaker 5: were murdered.
Speaker 7: Yeah. I hated that. I'm surprised by this.
Speaker 5: Because you would not be dead but for those injuries.
Speaker 5: If he had not been hit in the head, he
Speaker 5: would not have died.
Speaker 2: Indeed, you can, in fact, not be the person doing
Speaker 2: the shooting and still be chiged for murder in the
Speaker 2: US as someone.
Speaker 4: And that's a different road.
Speaker 5: The felony, the falony murder problem is is very serious here.
Speaker 5: But but no, I mean, he would not have died
Speaker 5: had he not been beaten. So he was beaten to death,
Speaker 5: It's just that it would It is perhaps possible that
Speaker 5: he could have survived had he attempted to survive.
Speaker 3: I don't know if he would have survived if he
Speaker 3: had got it's called an ambulance straight after.
Speaker 4: That's the other thing.
Speaker 5: That's the other thing is if he had that, if
Speaker 5: he had that much probably intracranial bleeding that he collapsed
Speaker 5: pretty soon afterwards.
Speaker 4: He may have died regardless.
Speaker 5: Well never know, probably right, but I would say he
Speaker 5: was fatally beaten because he would not have died if
Speaker 5: the beating, at least under American under American law, that
Speaker 5: would be the case.
Speaker 4: I don't know about in France.
Speaker 2: It's probably worth noting that. Like the American phenomenon of
Speaker 2: not wanting to go in an ambulance to hospital because
Speaker 2: you know that you will have life altering medical bills
Speaker 2: like this is, believe me, as someone who did not
Speaker 2: grow up in the United States and now lives here,
Speaker 2: is a unique and quite disturbing character trait of people
Speaker 2: living in the United States, Like because people are thinking
Speaker 2: like yeah, like I personally have not gotten an ambiance
Speaker 2: when I should have done in the United States because
Speaker 2: I knew that I wouldn't be able to pay the bills.
Speaker 5: Oh, if I'm conscious and able to walk on my
Speaker 5: own t feet.
Speaker 4: I'm not getting a.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is just just so people understand that this
Speaker 2: is not a thing that people tend to do as much,
Speaker 2: at least not for that reason in Europe.
Speaker 4: He just don't want to be a pussy. I guess,
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I can also imagine that maybe, like after authorities were alerted,
Speaker 3: that maybe he would have been visited by police in
Speaker 3: the hospital due to the fight.
Speaker 4: Right because he was involved in a conflict.
Speaker 3: Yes, and I have some photos later on, like images
Speaker 3: taken by I think a journalist where you just see
Speaker 3: the black leads like fascists, with like iron bars in
Speaker 3: their hands and everything. So I would say that the
Speaker 3: self defense motive is very indefensible. You know what, let's
Speaker 3: take an ad break.
Speaker 6: You know who who won't beat you to death with
Speaker 6: a bar?
Speaker 7: To death with a bar allegedly.
Speaker 5: I'm pretty sure none of their advertisers have ever beaten
Speaker 5: someone to death with a pipe.
Speaker 4: H oh No, I can't guarantee that.
Speaker 2: Ye a mining company, who can serve they.
Speaker 4: Will not beat you the listener to death?
Speaker 3: Probably I was about to plug the Washington Highway state patrol,
Speaker 3: but I'm not sure if I can. They can get
Speaker 3: to be in the Netherlands some safe and we're back
Speaker 3: unbeaten with iron bars. So when we left off, we
Speaker 3: were supposed to talk about more about nemesis, so we'll
Speaker 3: continue there. Yeah, they were carrying slogans with like accusations
Speaker 3: and trials of like left prominent left wing politicians, but
Speaker 3: they had them covered up with like regular so at
Speaker 3: some point they unfilled their actual slogans and they repeatedly
Speaker 3: chanted to the crowd of anti far right protesters, you're
Speaker 3: not feminists. This action only took about two minutes, a
Speaker 3: combination of chance being sped on and the general hostility
Speaker 3: that I imagine followed very quickly.
Speaker 5: I'm feeling in general hostility and I'm not even there no.
Speaker 3: Now what you've seen the Girl Boss photo now, so
Speaker 3: you know why. Yeah, that's why you feel hostile. Maybe
Speaker 3: it's just the pantsuits. Those two minutes were enough though,
Speaker 3: because they had the content and the images that they
Speaker 3: were after. They also brought bodyguard to protect them, which
Speaker 3: again it's this this saviness and this this cunningness that
Speaker 3: I said earlier, Like they know they're going to be
Speaker 3: provoked and possibly attacked, so they're already preemptively bringing bodyguards.
Speaker 6: Well, they're not going to be provoked. They were going
Speaker 6: there to the provoking. Yea, they went.
Speaker 5: They went to someone else's rally to do a provocative stunt. Yeah,
Speaker 5: and so they It makes sense, you'd I was going
Speaker 5: to if I was going to cause problems on purpose,
Speaker 5: I'll bring your bodyguard.
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, I'll make sure to watch out for you
Speaker 3: if you ever bring a bodyguard and I see you.
Speaker 6: But yeah, those two minutes they proved enough.
Speaker 3: They had the content and the images they were after,
Speaker 3: which were quickly published by far right magazines. Social media
Speaker 3: accounts for members of the Collective were later interviewed by
Speaker 3: c News, and Cordier herself was hosted on europe One.
Speaker 3: Both of these stations are owned by Vincente Bolour, who
Speaker 3: is sort of rupert murdering portions of the French media ecosystem.
Speaker 3: So again not surprising to anyone, I suppose, and in
Speaker 3: so far as I can tell, this is also nemesis
Speaker 3: preferred method of getting attention. Their modus operandi, the big
Speaker 3: high visibility locations or events where they provoke their opponents
Speaker 3: through their messaging and when confronted by people opposing their
Speaker 3: racism and their views.
Speaker 4: They'll play the victim cards, classic maneuver.
Speaker 6: Yeah exactly, Yeah, and it's.
Speaker 5: The best way to get positive attention while not actually
Speaker 5: having enough numbers to hold your own rally that anyone
Speaker 5: would notice.
Speaker 7: Exactly.
Speaker 3: But again, coming back to this, this feels much more
Speaker 3: sefy and thought out than Oh.
Speaker 4: Absolutely it's a clever strategy.
Speaker 5: But it's like the media keeps falling for it, Like
Speaker 5: you don't have to interview the head of this little
Speaker 5: Nazi group just because they put on a nice outfit.
Speaker 4: It's the Richard Spencer problem all over again.
Speaker 6: Yeah, just because they dress nice doesn't mean just because
Speaker 6: he owns a little suit jacket.
Speaker 3: Now, this is why I don't owe any suits. Look,
Speaker 3: I'm just to avoid being associated. In November twenty nineteen,
Speaker 3: they infiltrated the Paris March against Sexual and Gender based
Speaker 3: Violence and then they brandish science referring to foreign rapists.
Speaker 4: I hate these women.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you'd have to have a woman on so that
Speaker 5: we could so someone can say, ex ore dumb bitches.
Speaker 4: It's legal for me to say.
Speaker 7: Yes.
Speaker 3: In hindsight, I'm very glad that you're here to say
Speaker 3: those of all because I won't talk about women's wrongs,
Speaker 3: but you can which I mean, it's just.
Speaker 5: It's so cynical and so nasty to show up to
Speaker 5: an anti rape march to displace the blame for sexual
Speaker 5: violence onto immigrants, to just like yeah, ooh, gross gross.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's like ninety percent of right wing politics
Speaker 3: at the moment.
Speaker 5: Right, But for the women themselves to be doing because
Speaker 5: you see men do it all the time, but these
Speaker 5: women know better because I can see you at least
Speaker 5: half of those women have been sexually assaulted and it
Speaker 5: probably wasn't by an immigrant, like you know better, you
Speaker 5: know better.
Speaker 3: Let's call it yay, says she She suffered from a
Speaker 3: sexual assault by immigrants, but there's no way to prove
Speaker 3: it because it was allegedly when she was thirteen or fourteen.
Speaker 3: So it's just this after the fact justification that you
Speaker 3: can't prove or disprove either way. And even if we
Speaker 3: were going to say, okay, you know what, we'll take
Speaker 3: that doargumented face value, I won't.
Speaker 7: That is your prerogative.
Speaker 5: No, I just you see, it reminds meds me so
Speaker 5: much of this this funny little you know, Nazi con
Speaker 5: artist that was She testified in the Oklahoma City Trials.
Speaker 4: She had this like her origin story.
Speaker 5: Was like, oh, like I became a racist because I
Speaker 5: was listening to racist radio shows while I was recovering.
Speaker 5: Because I was attacked by a gang of black teenagers
Speaker 5: and I broke my legs. She broke her legs because
Speaker 5: she got drunk at the park and she jumped off
Speaker 5: a giant Crucidex set up for a passion place. Okay, Okay,
Speaker 5: so this whole like my origin story is like I
Speaker 5: was assaulted by a gang of like people of color.
Speaker 6: Like, I don't believe you anyway completely valid.
Speaker 3: But what I meant to say is like, even if
Speaker 3: that were true, that no argument to like generalize that
Speaker 3: to an entire population.
Speaker 5: No, or just show up to the anti rape march
Speaker 5: to cause a scene. Girl go home.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you'd think, Yeah, if you've been subject to sexual assault,
Speaker 2: you would want to be in solidarity with other people,
Speaker 2: maybe make sexually assaults stop happening, like period, not focus
Speaker 2: on a subset of human beings.
Speaker 3: But James, what you're forgetting there is that sexual violence
Speaker 3: is okay if it's done by white people.
Speaker 6: Okay according to Nemesis.
Speaker 4: And in a biblical way. You know, within the bounds
Speaker 4: of marriage.
Speaker 3: Yeah, in the holy bounds of matrimony. So yeah, what
Speaker 3: this group essentially does is they tie feminism or their
Speaker 3: brand of it. Yeah, thank you for the air quotes. Yeah,
Speaker 3: they tie it to their nationalism. But they focus solely
Speaker 3: on sexual violence, and even then only the violence that
Speaker 3: is connected to like migrants.
Speaker 4: So it's no feminism at all. It's just it's a lie.
Speaker 3: You won't be surprised that they're awfully silent about equal
Speaker 3: pay or abortion rights.
Speaker 6: Well, I imagine they're probably anti abortion. How did you.
Speaker 2: Guess that, Boy, It depends who's getting the abortion.
Speaker 3: I would assume I will send them like an email
Speaker 3: to ask for a verific a specify I need more coverage.
Speaker 3: That's the way we should respond to this exactly. And
Speaker 3: I want to know which abortions are okay and which
Speaker 3: are not so I can.
Speaker 7: Accurately make a herrowing story of it.
Speaker 3: Anyway, this exploitation of women's issues by right groups to
Speaker 3: proliferate their bullshit worldview and pull people in is called
Speaker 3: femo nationalism. It was coined by the British sociologist Sarah R.
Speaker 3: Ferris in twenty seventeen, which might be a broader topic
Speaker 3: worth exploring in the future.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm very interested, you doo.
Speaker 5: People have been complaining that I never talk about we're
Speaker 5: little girls.
Speaker 6: Well now you can, Elies Cordier, here you go for now.
Speaker 3: It is love to see this what they're doing as
Speaker 3: some sort of bucked up arranged the marriage of feminism
Speaker 3: and ethnic nationalism that views gender issues explicitly.
Speaker 6: Through the lens of ethnicity.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and as I said before, they're notably very quiet
Speaker 3: on bodily autonomy, workplace equality, equal opportunity, abortion, and maternity care.
Speaker 5: So like actual sort of safety and well being and
Speaker 5: equality for women, the things that I think of as feminism.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like the maternity care was like that sprung out
Speaker 3: to be because like in.
Speaker 5: My feminism, I don't die in childbirth because it's woke.
Speaker 2: They want to return to tradition and have thirty percent
Speaker 2: of job as result in one one or other party dying.
Speaker 6: Ah, great stuff, it's beautiful. Yeah.
Speaker 5: I guess if you were trying to invent feminism but
Speaker 5: the only text you had is the fourteen words, this
Speaker 5: is what you would get.
Speaker 2: You had a dictionary with the word feminism and the
Speaker 2: fourteen words, and that was all he had to go.
Speaker 4: David Lane, famous feminist.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guarantee you that Alice Cordier has said the
Speaker 3: fourteen words on probably multiple occasions. It's a garbage group
Speaker 3: of people, and I hope they have to hiccups the
Speaker 3: rest of their life.
Speaker 4: Oh that's hurtful. I like that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a pretty good one.
Speaker 2: And with that, that is the end of part one.
Speaker 2: If you'd like to find out more about Quentin and
Speaker 2: various other French fascists, please join us again tomorrow.
Speaker 1: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.
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