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Speaker 1: Hey, y'all.

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Speaker 2: Is Laurena Rosa with the latest with Laurena Rosa on

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Speaker 2: Black Effects and I cannot wait to see you guys

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Speaker 2: at the fourth Annual Black Effect Podcast Festival. Okay, we're

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Speaker 2: coming back to Atlanta, Georgia on Saturday, April twenty fifth

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Speaker 2: at Palman Yards and it's hosted by me alongside DJ

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Speaker 2: MV and charlottagnea God. We got drink chances of Noriega

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Speaker 2: and DJAFM. We gotta keep it positive, Sweetye with My Girl,

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Speaker 2: Christopherne Hayslin. We got Reality with the King with My Guide,

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Speaker 2: then my brother Carlos King, and y'all know he does

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Speaker 2: reality commentary like nobody can.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: We also have Don't Call Me White Girl, the podcast

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Speaker 2: I Love Mona and Club five to twenty podcasts, along

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Speaker 2: with the Grits and Eggs podcast.

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Speaker 1: So this lineup sack Baby, turn up.

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Speaker 2: You're also gonna want to check out the panels that

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Speaker 2: we have lined up too, Feature and keV on stage,

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Speaker 2: Pika Sumpter, and John Hope Bryant just to name a few.

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Speaker 2: Of course, it's way bigger than podcast. We're bringing the

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Speaker 2: Black Effect marketplace with black owned businesses, Bus the food

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Speaker 2: trug court to keep you bid while you visit us.

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Speaker 1: Okay, listen, you don't want to miss this.

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Speaker 2: Tap in and grab your ticket now at Black Effect

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Speaker 2: dot Com Slash Podcast Festival.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Deeply Well. This show is a soft place

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Speaker 3: to land on your journey, a space where we explore

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Speaker 3: what it truly means to live well from the inside out,

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Speaker 3: not perfectly, but honestly, with all the complexity, the paradox,

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Speaker 3: the beauty and the wonder of being human. Because in

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Speaker 3: a world that is constantly pulling at us, this is

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Speaker 3: the space to come back to yourself, to your body,

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Speaker 3: your truth, to the practices that genuinely sustain you, the

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Speaker 3: ones that work when life is actually happening. This show

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Speaker 3: is for the seekers, the creatives, the sensitive ones, for

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Speaker 3: everyone doing the quiet, courageous work of becoming whole. This

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Speaker 3: is Deeply Well.

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Speaker 1: Hello everyone, welcome back. We are in the flow of the.

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Speaker 3: New season and I am so excited, so excited about

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Speaker 3: today's guests talk about like a breath of fresh air,

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Speaker 3: a breath of fresh flowers. That's what her work feels

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Speaker 3: like to me. And we are in our new studio, which,

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Speaker 3: if you've been following along on social media has been

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Speaker 3: such an undertaking this last year. But I'm so excited

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Speaker 3: to bring this show to you from our heart chakra

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Speaker 3: Set So our first guest of season five, What a

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Speaker 3: way to kick it off. We are joined by none

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Speaker 3: other than the incredible Nedra Glover. Towobndra is a licensed

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Speaker 3: therapist and the author of Set Boundaries, Find Peace, an

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Speaker 3: instant New York Times bestseller translated into for thirty five

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Speaker 3: languages worldwide. In addition, she has authored six other books,

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Speaker 3: including Drama Free and most recently, a children's book titled

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Speaker 3: What Makes You Happy. A sought after relationship expert, she

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Speaker 3: has practiced relationship therapy for more than fifteen years.

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Speaker 1: With more than two.

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Speaker 3: Point five million followers across her social media platforms. Tuave

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Speaker 3: has appeared as an expert on Red Table Talk, The

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Speaker 3: Breakfast Club, Good Morning America, and CBS Morning Show, and

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Speaker 3: The Today Show, just to name a few. Her work

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Speaker 3: has been highlighted in The New York Times, The Guardian,

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Speaker 3: and Vice, and has appeared on numerous podcasts, including the

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Speaker 3: School of Greatness, We Can Do Hard Things, and ten

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Speaker 3: Percent Happier and Deeply Well.

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Speaker 1: She lives in.

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Speaker 3: Charlotte, North Carolina with her family. Welcome to the show, Netra,

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Speaker 3: thank you.

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Speaker 1: What a warm welcome. I am remembering who I am

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Speaker 1: as you do. I'm like, oh you did that? She bad? Yes, wow?

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Speaker 1: Yeah what a life? Really?

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Speaker 3: What a life?

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Speaker 1: What a life? Yeah? Yeah? It puts everything into perspective.

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Speaker 1: When I hear it, I'm like, oh, yeah, I did

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Speaker 1: do that. Yeah wow.

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Speaker 3: And you know what, I think that just so many

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Speaker 3: millions of people. And first of all, can I just

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Speaker 3: say thirty five languages? I know, how does that even

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Speaker 3: feel in terms of your work? Just as like expert aside,

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Speaker 3: but like Ned, your the woman, Ned, you're the little

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Speaker 3: girl growing up in Detroit, like to have your work

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Speaker 3: received and help shape and change people for the better

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Speaker 3: in thirty five different languages, countries all over the world.

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Speaker 1: This life that I have now is so much bigger

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Speaker 1: than what I could have dreamed, is how it feels.

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Speaker 1: I think of myself as like a student in school,

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Speaker 1: and I think most of my teachers would be like, really, no, oh,

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Speaker 1: I was chatty, I was disruptive. Did you get got

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Speaker 1: into college like on a bridge program? Like girl barely

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Speaker 1: getting in? So yeah, it's it's definitely like a three

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Speaker 1: sixty and it's so interesting. Like I think once I

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Speaker 1: started college, I started to take life serious. Before then,

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Speaker 1: it was like where's the fun?

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Speaker 3: Where am I?

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Speaker 1: You know, like I just want to socialize. I just

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Speaker 1: want to talk to my friends and do all the things.

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Speaker 1: And then I was like, oh my gosh, I'm an adult.

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Speaker 3: Let me grow up.

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Speaker 1: Let me let me grow up, well, let me grow

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Speaker 1: into something not even grow up. I feel like in

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Speaker 1: some ways I was grown up right, probably too grown right,

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Speaker 1: too grown, but let me grow into something I love.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I would say that. Yeah, it's I don't

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Speaker 1: I want to say it's shocking, but it's like wow.

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Speaker 1: Like when I started to take life serious, I was

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Speaker 1: destined to do anything. I love that. I love that.

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Speaker 1: What did What does that mean?

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Speaker 3: Taking your life serious? Because like when I hear that term,

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Speaker 3: I hear like bigger purpose or understanding that like you

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Speaker 3: have a right to have more and to be in

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Speaker 3: the world in your unique way.

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Speaker 1: I think it means being intentional. Yeah, and not just

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Speaker 1: being a bystander and waiting for things to come to you,

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Speaker 1: but having a strategic plan, not anything that's rigid. But

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Speaker 1: if I do this for this amount of time, I

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Speaker 1: might get to this point, yeah, and then once you

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Speaker 1: get to that point, Okay, now I've done this, and

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Speaker 1: here is the next thing that I can do.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thinking of that kind of like moment right like

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Speaker 3: to hear you describe even college, Like, thank you for

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Speaker 3: sharing the depths of that, because I think so many

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Speaker 3: people think they can't be great because maybe great didn't

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Speaker 3: start right away in childhood, or you know, it didn't

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Speaker 3: follow a particular mold, so you think, well, I didn't

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Speaker 3: do great in school, so there's no way I could

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Speaker 3: be that or do that.

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Speaker 1: But it's like, I think.

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Speaker 3: Something we're really discovering in our generation. God, so much

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Speaker 3: being a millennial is a lot. We deserve all the

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Speaker 3: reward when we get to the other side, because my god,

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Speaker 3: we are raising our parents and our children at the

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Speaker 3: same time. We are living through so much. But you know,

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Speaker 3: we're really the first generation that has mainstream kind of

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Speaker 3: centered our identity on purpose and also on the ability

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Speaker 3: to thrive in multiple industries in one lifetime, to consider

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Speaker 3: completely new ways of using our work. How does that

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Speaker 3: show up for you?

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Speaker 1: You know? I keep going back to intention, Like right now,

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Speaker 1: I feel like because I have a book that's translated

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Speaker 1: in thirty five languages. And I have all these other books.

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Speaker 1: It's like, what is centering me now? Yeah, And some

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Speaker 1: things for me has been going back to the basics,

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Speaker 1: like oh, my gosh, I used to love to order

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Speaker 1: all my groceries, go to the store. Go to the store,

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Speaker 1: because that's where you got the energy to be like, oh,

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Speaker 1: here's this, you know, like I want to go back

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Speaker 1: in some not all areas, but in some hear me, now, universe,

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Speaker 1: hear me now, universe specific I only want to go

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Speaker 1: to Trader Jills, not all the groceries stores, but just

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Speaker 1: just keeping in mind who I am and where I

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Speaker 1: want to be, yeah, and saying true to that because

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Speaker 1: I think so often when you do things in life,

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Speaker 1: not even within but from the outside, people are like, well,

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Speaker 1: what's next. You've done that, and what's next?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And I always look at.

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Speaker 3: That is that drives me nuts. I always use it

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Speaker 3: as a moment to stop the person and be like, nothing,

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Speaker 3: nothing is next. I don't need to be doing more.

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Speaker 3: This is enough for now.

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Speaker 1: This is enough. Did you hear what the lady said

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Speaker 1: at the top of this. I think that's enough.

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Speaker 3: I think I think she has no no no, I'm

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Speaker 3: her works.

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Speaker 1: I'm doing more. She is coming out with a new book,

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Speaker 1: so I'm doing more, but definitely being strategic about what

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Speaker 1: that more is, you know, like what is the core

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Speaker 1: of me? The core of me is I love being

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Speaker 1: a therapist. I love seeing clients, and I often probably

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Speaker 1: damage my clients by saying, as long as I'm alive,

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Speaker 1: I might just fall asleep in his chair one day,

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Speaker 1: but I'll be here because I absolutely love that work.

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Speaker 1: And I feel like that WOR is a feeder for

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Speaker 1: everything else that I do. It's a feeder for writing

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Speaker 1: books and being able to speak on shows, like I

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Speaker 1: really get to sit and listen to people in ways

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Speaker 1: that many of us we don't understand the power of that.

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Speaker 1: And so being able to do that and I think, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean, i'd imagine being able to do it,

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Speaker 1: well is it's a gift. And you know when I

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Speaker 1: mentioned like I was a kid in school who was

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Speaker 1: like always talking but also listening. Yeah, I would do

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Speaker 1: my work. And I'm like, Debbie, so you said last

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Speaker 1: night your mom's boyfriend, So what happened with that? It's

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Speaker 1: like following up right, Like I'm building those skills, like

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Speaker 1: I have teachers where I knew way too much of

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Speaker 1: a personal girl. I was just asking questions and I

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Speaker 1: didn't know, like, wow, people don't do this. This is

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Speaker 1: why this adult is telling me about their fiance. I

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Speaker 1: I'm like, did you know that mister so and so

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Speaker 1: he was moving last week? Because I'm just asking questions

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Speaker 1: and listening And in some ways I've always done that,

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Speaker 1: and so to be on a career trajectory that celebrates

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Speaker 1: that is like, oh my god, I love that for me. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: oh yes, And.

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Speaker 3: It's so funny that's bringing girl. I have so many

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Speaker 3: pathways I want to go down right now. I'm like,

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Speaker 3: you have to choose, So in my mind, I'm like

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Speaker 3: throwing questions away, bringing new ones up. But I love

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Speaker 3: the way that that's explained because I think, like, you know,

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Speaker 3: there's this kind of blanketed advice sometimes when people are

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Speaker 3: looking for their life path or what you know their

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Speaker 3: work would or could be, and people say things like

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Speaker 3: back to what you loved in childhood, and if you

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Speaker 3: don't know how to notice the nuance or clock and

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Speaker 3: track the changes in your life, that could be hard

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Speaker 3: because not all of us had childhoods that included hobbies

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Speaker 3: that were fed or nurtured or you know, community around

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Speaker 3: any of those things.

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Speaker 1: So you may not know what you liked a lot

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Speaker 1: as a kid.

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Speaker 3: There wasn't anything stand out, But then you hear something

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Speaker 3: like that, and that's exactly what is meant by that.

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Speaker 3: It's not just like, oh, I really liked playing with sand,

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Speaker 3: so maybe you know, I'll build sand castles for the

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Speaker 3: rest of my life.

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Speaker 1: Or someone is doing that in a sand castle competition somewhere, sure, right,

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Speaker 1: Like I have seen some sand castles, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: that person has got to be an.

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Speaker 3: Expert, right because they have been with the greens.

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Speaker 1: Like they have special water from what they do. Because

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Speaker 1: when I go to the beach, no, no, But.

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Speaker 3: Even in that, like to lean into the fact that,

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Speaker 3: like I was an extraordinary listener as a child, and

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Speaker 3: that is what began to craft my path and yeah,

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Speaker 3: I just.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And as I think about it, like you know,

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Speaker 1: school is like math science, English, loved English, loved social studies. Okay,

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Speaker 1: in math science, I was like, when am I going

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Speaker 1: to use it? Like you have to explain the utility

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Speaker 1: to me. Why do I need biology? Why do I'm

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Speaker 1: never dissecting a human? I don't need it. But I

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Speaker 1: love things where it's like we're going to read a

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Speaker 1: novel and talk about it because we're learning about people.

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Speaker 1: We're learning about you know, like so the sociology and anthropology,

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Speaker 1: Like I was God into that stuff. But the big

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Speaker 1: things in school are math and science. Especially in our time,

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Speaker 1: that's what was deeply valued.

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Speaker 3: I relate we would have been such good friends as

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Speaker 3: kids because like I relate to that deeply. Like I

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Speaker 3: was always in AP English, AP history, in different like

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Speaker 3: gifted programs, but failing math, failing in science like ess

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Speaker 3: and I was like, why, what's wrong with my brain?

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Speaker 1: But your brain was adjusting to the things that you

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Speaker 1: needed to know and kind of tossing out the rest.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, divine purpose always leading the way.

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Speaker 1: So Nedra's something.

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Speaker 3: That I really notice, love and deeply appreciate about your

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Speaker 3: work in the world and in the multitude of the

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Speaker 3: ways that you can really get that into people's systems

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Speaker 3: and hearts. I love the way, especially as a therapist,

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Speaker 3: you dive into the nuance of everything, of all the

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Speaker 3: changes you were trying to.

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Speaker 1: Help people through.

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Speaker 3: I think that that's something that is really missed in

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Speaker 3: the kind of therapized world or in this like mental

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Speaker 3: health revolution that we found ourselves in in the last

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Speaker 3: like five to six years. It's like diving into the

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Speaker 3: nuance of Like when you hear a certain term and

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Speaker 3: it has like just this list of behavior or experiences.

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Speaker 3: For most people, it's hard to say, well, no, it's

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Speaker 3: not quite that or it's not quite this, and you're

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Speaker 3: giving it to us in it's such an overused world

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Speaker 3: word to say practical, because it's not that it's practical.

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Speaker 3: You're giving it to us in a way that it

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Speaker 3: can be used immediately. It can enlist like instant breakthrough,

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Speaker 3: and it gives like plan and action of how to

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Speaker 3: change the behavior immediately, not in theory.

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Speaker 1: But in practice.

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Speaker 3: And I love that, especially like following you on.

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Speaker 1: Threads, I just love the way.

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Speaker 3: You see how much it empowers people and gives them

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Speaker 3: a pathway to change right away and like get their

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Speaker 3: feet wet with it. So in your new book, The

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Speaker 3: Balancing Act, I really loved that. Like I loved the

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Speaker 3: case studies, you were sharing the very specific stories. One

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Speaker 3: that I really related to. In the book, you were

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Speaker 3: talking about two of your clients, one who was an

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Speaker 3: overachiever and a lawyer and burnt out and was getting

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Speaker 3: all of these suggestions on how to take better care

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Speaker 3: of themselves and couldn't figure it out until life made

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Speaker 3: them sit down. So if you could start by telling me,

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Speaker 3: you know, you have taught deep boundaries to people.

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Speaker 1: You've taught people.

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Speaker 3: So kind of the framework of how to forgive self

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Speaker 3: and others, And now it's like, how do I balance

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Speaker 3: this new me in a world that is relentless and

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Speaker 3: so demanding and harder and harder every day. So what

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Speaker 3: was your motivation for the Balancing Act? And how do

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Speaker 3: you hope that it shows up for people, especially people

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Speaker 3: that have already been changed by your work.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I hope that with this book we learned to

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Speaker 1: make the distinction between tolerable annoyance and abuse and neglect

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Speaker 1: and relationships, that we learn to acknowledge that there is

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Speaker 1: a difference between dysfunctional codependency and just a little bit

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Speaker 1: of it, right, Like, there are levels to so many

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Speaker 1: of these terms that come up as like horrible that

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Speaker 1: maybe if we didn't have the term, it wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: so bad.

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Speaker 3: The difference between like a codependency is like, yeah, that's

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Speaker 3: just a little that's fine, And like something that's like, well.

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Speaker 1: All right, you got to look at that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think a parent who wants to talk to you

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Speaker 1: most days when you get off work, and they're kind,

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Speaker 1: they're supportive, they're not being pushy or anything, but they

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Speaker 1: just want that level of connection. And maybe you're like, Mom,

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Speaker 1: I'm on my way home right. Maybe maybe it's an annoyance.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they do have this dependence on that connection every day,

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Speaker 1: But that's very different from a person who would curse

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Speaker 1: you out if you didn't answer the phone. That's very

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Speaker 1: different than a person who is demanding of your time

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Speaker 1: multiple times a day. It's very different than a person

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Speaker 1: who says, well, you didn't call me, you know, So

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Speaker 1: is it dependence on their part? Absolutely, And I think

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Speaker 1: that can be adjusted if you you know, you don't

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Speaker 1: love that in your relationship. However, I think it's more

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Speaker 1: of an annoyance. Yeah, it's not a dysfunctional pattern where

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Speaker 1: I need to say that this person here, our relationship

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Speaker 1: is going to be over because you want to talk

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Speaker 1: to me every day after work and I'd rather listen

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Speaker 1: to a podcast.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So what does one do like in that kind

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Speaker 3: of more of recognizing what the annoyances are how do

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Speaker 3: you have to just to the irritation or are there

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Speaker 3: kind of things you can set up within that that

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Speaker 3: feel more serving to yourself.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think it goes back to boundaries. Like you know,

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Speaker 1: we are in charge of our phones, and if someone

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Speaker 1: is calling us on our path home, we have the

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Speaker 1: power to not answer the phone. We have the power

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Speaker 1: to actually follow through with listening to that audio book

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Speaker 1: or Jez or whatever you listening to. You have the

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Speaker 1: power to do that instead of talking on the phone.

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Speaker 1: But for many of us, the only way we can

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Speaker 1: get comfortable is if the person stops. And sometimes people

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Speaker 1: they want to talk to you. That's not a bad thing.

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Speaker 1: Who wants no one to call their phone? Right right?

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Speaker 1: I mean, because that's the opposite of that, like nobody

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Speaker 1: calling your phone. No, I want people to call my phone.

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Speaker 1: I love a holiday text of Merry Christmas from a

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Speaker 1: person I haven't talked to you in a long time.

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Speaker 1: I had a guy that I used to work with

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Speaker 1: in college and he would just text me Happy Birthday

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Speaker 1: because it was our birthdays was around the same time.

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Speaker 1: I'm fine with that once a year, Kevin, I don't know, Kevin,

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Speaker 1: what a sweet guy, What a kind heart. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean after you know, after a few years of college.

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Speaker 1: But I was I was fine with that, Like, that's

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Speaker 1: not a you know, that's that's not a thing. So

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Speaker 1: I think sometimes maybe we do want that space for

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Speaker 1: a day, But do we need to have a conversation

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Speaker 1: that ends it forever?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Do we need to have a long term conversation about that,

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Speaker 1: because I wouldn't want it. I actually get a little

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Speaker 1: kick out of being able to tell everybody she called

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Speaker 1: me every day of the club. Yeah, it's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: she's so annoying, but why she ain't called right? Right? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So some things are annoying, they're uncomfortable any relationship that

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Speaker 1: you're in, when you love people, they will get on

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Speaker 1: your nerves. Yeah, And we have to separate the toxicity,

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Speaker 1: the abuse, the neglect from annoyances. Because the reason I

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Speaker 1: wrote this book is I'm starting to see in my clients,

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Speaker 1: and you know, there has been research done the world

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Speaker 1: is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected,

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Speaker 1: we're becoming more individualized because we are just chopping people

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Speaker 1: off in favor of a podcast. And sometimes, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe we just need that quick conversation to have that

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Speaker 1: routine in our day and then we go back to

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Speaker 1: the thing we're doing. But we actually need people in connection.

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Speaker 1: We need to go to you know, the grocery store

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Speaker 1: and the cash here is not paying a lot of attention.

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Speaker 1: That asks to your ability to tell stories to other people. Girl,

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Speaker 1: when I went to the store, this cash here, she

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Speaker 1: you need that. What would you talk about if you

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Speaker 1: had no friction? That's so good? Like what would how

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Speaker 1: would you learn and grow if you had no friction,

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Speaker 1: if you had no situations in life? Like this is

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Speaker 1: a part of being in relationships with people, and not

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Speaker 1: just close relationships, because I talk about that too. Going

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Speaker 1: to your local coffee shop and having the same Barisa,

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Speaker 1: that's a relationship.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Those are the people who a lot of times they're like,

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Speaker 1: Carol ain't been here in a week. I think I

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Speaker 1: got her cell phone number, let me text me. They

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Speaker 1: may text Carol because that's weird why she had Then

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Speaker 1: you find out she in the hospital. Oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: Now we got to send some coffees up to the hospital.

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Speaker 1: You know what's so funny about that.

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Speaker 3: I just read an article that really moved me, and

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Speaker 3: it was this man who owned like a gumbo shop,

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Speaker 3: and every day for ten years, this older man would

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Speaker 3: come in twice a day, have lunch and dinner. And

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Speaker 3: he didn't show up for like three days, so they

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Speaker 3: went out looking for him, and it turned out that

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Speaker 3: he was passed out in his bathroom and no one

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Speaker 3: could help him. So they like broke the door down,

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Speaker 3: got him out. Girls set him up in an apartment

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Speaker 3: next door to the gum place so that they.

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Speaker 1: Can keep an eye on him. And I was like,

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Speaker 1: where does that. I need a gumbo shop, Okay, I

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Speaker 1: need a relationship. What a healing gumbo relationship? Yeah? Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But every year around the holidays, we put a basket

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Speaker 1: on our porch for the ups workers Amazon and all

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Speaker 1: the folks. And the last two years that we've done

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Speaker 1: at our mail lady, she always sends us a note

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Speaker 1: at the end, like thank you for the wrap snacks.

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Speaker 1: It's so sweet. You know. Sometimes we're having long days

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Speaker 1: and it's like, she's in my relationship cycle. Yes it's

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Speaker 1: not a close relationship, you know, but she's in the

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Speaker 1: relationship cycle. She now has an expectation if that basket

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Speaker 1: isn't out there in twenty twenty six, she may knock

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Speaker 1: on our door.

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Speaker 3: And she matters to your life. She matters, you know,

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Speaker 3: Like I think.

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Speaker 1: What you're describing.

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Speaker 3: So much as Jess beyond perfectly aligned, because I feel

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Speaker 3: like the pendulum always swings too far right. Like in general,

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Speaker 3: whenever consciousness shifts in ourselves in the world, we see

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Speaker 3: this big kind of swing from one extreme to the next,

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Speaker 3: and then we spend a decade or two kind of

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Speaker 3: finding what that middle is. And we're in that now

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Speaker 3: because we're seeing how the last few years, all these understanding,

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Speaker 3: all these rights for so many different communities of people

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Speaker 3: came forward with power are now being rescinded in different ways,

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Speaker 3: and we're finding these stretches, but especially with exactly what

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Speaker 3: your book is about, that kind of fine tailoring and

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Speaker 3: refinement that's so necessary for the journey. And I think

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Speaker 3: when a lot of people are on their journey right,

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Speaker 3: they're healing journey, their spiritual journey, their journey of awakening.

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Speaker 3: You do have to focus a lot at first on

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Speaker 3: yourself as an individual and under what understanding what the

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Speaker 3: hell is going on inside right and what makes up

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Speaker 3: my world, and then choosing that world. But then it's

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Speaker 3: all the other pieces, which I think is so so

437
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 3: important for this moment because we do have to be

438
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 3: in community, but we have to relearn what that looks like,

439
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 3: and not just because we've forgotten as a society, but

440
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:26,719
Speaker 3: society has changed, and those pieces I think are really important,

441
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 3: especially for me to hear. I think about stuff like

442
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 3: that all the time lately in my own community journey,

443
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 3: because our personal ecosystem is what we should be feeding

444
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 3: before we're feeding these parasocial friendships on social media or

445
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 3: looking for the bigger opportunity of this that It's like,

446
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:48,159
Speaker 3: what does your unique ecosystem, what is that created of

447
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 3: that's your world? Practice feeding that world. The person that's

448
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 3: delivering your mail, they are in your life, like in

449
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 3: your life more than the person you follow on social media.

450
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: How do you feed that?

451
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 3: How do you see what the purpose of that interaction is,

452
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 3: what it could become.

453
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 1: That's yeah, I love that. I love that practice.

454
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 3: Even with I'm gonna I'm gonna pick up on that

455
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 3: and do that because in this season, for myself, that's

456
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,959
Speaker 3: more important than anything. It's like my personal ecosystem, people

457
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 3: being fed near me and around me, being as good

458
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 3: a friend as I'm able to be, but also like

459
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 3: being a friend to myself and knowing in this season

460
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,400
Speaker 3: as a being, this is what I can do, this

461
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,199
Speaker 3: is what I can't do, and that's okay.

462
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah you.

463
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 3: Something I've been really loving to is on social media

464
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 3: we get to follow your journey as a woman now

465
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,880
Speaker 3: even more so we're seeing I love seeing how live

466
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 3: your life is. There is like such a beauty and

467
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 3: a playfulness that I think you share. And when you

468
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 3: came out with your children's book, which my son loves,

469
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 3: my son's class and loves, you had this gorgeous like

470
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 3: rainbow baby doll dress that you wore.

471
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,439
Speaker 1: And it was so I looked at that.

472
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 3: I was like, this is like the most her I

473
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 3: could ever see her like this.

474
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 1: Wow.

475
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 3: Tell me about that practice with yourself of inviting beauty

476
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 3: and I know you Garden, I know that you love

477
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 3: art and beautiful things. I think one of our first

478
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 3: times hanging out, you invited me to an art show

479
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:32,920
Speaker 3: and we spent the day seeing this incredible exhibition and grabbing,

480
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 3: you know, sweet snacks around and all that kind of stuff.

481
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 3: So what is your relationship to beauty and what is

482
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 3: that balance for yourself of kind of the hard work

483
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 3: you do the work of the soul, the work of humanity,

484
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 3: and then kind of giving yourself this lightness, this fun,

485
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 3: this pleasure in the other parts of your life.

486
00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think with art and particular, it makes you

487
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 1: more present to see it. There's nobody in a museum

488
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 1: on their cell phone. There's no as a matter of fact,

489
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 1: turn your phones off. Please turn your phones off, right,

490
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,440
Speaker 1: Like that's the rule. It's just the space to be present.

491
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 1: And so I love doing things that are fun where

492
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 1: you could be present. And I'm not even thinking about

493
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 1: time that the event you mentioned for my book party,

494
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: it was so fun. It was so fun, like we

495
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: were lying, dancing and making necklaces and it was just fun.

496
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: And I think that's such an important part of adulthood

497
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: that we miss out one because everything is so serious

498
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: and everything is so regimented that we forget that dancing,

499
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: wearing fun colors, going to museums, incorporating that in some

500
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 1: way your house, whether it's your children's art or you're

501
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: making stuff yourself, Like, those are just beautiful accents to life.

502
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: It's not a you know, must for all of us.

503
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: Maybe we get that in some other direction, but I'm

504
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: definitely open to beauty in any way so whether it's gardening,

505
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: whether it's art, whether it's you know, home decor, I

506
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: love it and I feel like this is my home,

507
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 1: this is my outward home. And so even dressing myself

508
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 1: is a reflection of the joy I get from the

509
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: aesthetics of beauty.

510
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

511
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: So, you know, I remember having a client one time

512
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: who was depressed and she would always come in her

513
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 1: workout clothes and I joke with her and I say,

514
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 1: I think this is a big part of your issue

515
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: family trauma side. It's the yoga pants. It's it's the

516
00:29:53,160 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 1: yoga pants dress. Don't come in here anymore with those

517
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 1: clothesal you gotta get dressed. You have to put yourself together.

518
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,479
Speaker 1: She started doing it, and not that it made her

519
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: happier alive, but it made her happier in session. Yeah,

520
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: it's something about, you know, the way that we present

521
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: that's reflective of what we're feeling.

522
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 3: So so true and those are like those little kind

523
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 3: of fine details are what are really the foundations of

524
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 3: us being able to be ourselves in the way we

525
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 3: want to be in our life. A big part I

526
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 3: think for you know, when people are again on the journey,

527
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 3: A lot of people, you know, you falsely assume that

528
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 3: you change yourself, and then it turns into magic and

529
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 3: everyone else instantly changes and should adhere to your boundaries

530
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 3: and the fine work of it becomes. Can you adhere

531
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 3: to your own boundaries? Can you be in practice with

532
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 3: working with someone who has not been on the same

533
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 3: journey as you, who just out of their compulsion in nature,

534
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 3: wants to get that boundary down. Can you practice holding

535
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 3: it and holding it in new ways and holding it

536
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 3: with compassion or just detachment. That part of the process

537
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 3: I think is definitely necessary. But what everyone is going

538
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 3: through right now, especially in friendship, and you've been speaking

539
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 3: to that quite a bit, especially on threads, let's talk

540
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 3: about healthy community and healthy friendship.

541
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: A lot of.

542
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 3: People are looking for the first time to know what

543
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 3: that is and how that feels, and how to show

544
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 3: up in that.

545
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: How does someone begin to.

546
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 3: Understand themselves as a friend and put themselves out there

547
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 3: to build friendship?

548
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: Well, I think with friendship, unfortunately, we sometimes see it

549
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: as a relationship that always has to be perfect. Whereas

550
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: with family, with our partners, especially with our children, we'll

551
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: work with some of those flaws a little more. With friends,

552
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 1: we don't have that level of patience and acceptance. And

553
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: so if I have started this wellness journey and I

554
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: am now going to yoga and I'm using my crystals,

555
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: I'm doing all the things, if all of my friends

556
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 1: aren't doing it, they're not good friends. They're not good

557
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: friends anymore. You know why, because they're different. What in actuality? Well,

558
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 1: you were just there in twenty twenty five. You just

559
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 1: started this in January.

560
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 3: It's been a week, been a week, girl, like, chill out.

561
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: This is not even a solid plan yet, right, So

562
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: I think you have to incorporate new people, not get

563
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: rid of the old ones. And what that looks like

564
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: is having your yoga friends, having your friends who you

565
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: cut up with around such and such. You know, but

566
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that, oh my gosh, this person is

567
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: no longer good for me. It just means that we

568
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 1: need to adjust, We need to adjust. And I think

569
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: sometimes we have a difficult time doing that because we

570
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: take it to mean a character assassination of someone. All

571
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 1: they don't want to eat better, All they don't want to.

572
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 3: And that's fine.

573
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 1: Again, you love Buffalo Wings just last month. You know.

574
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: It's like, who put you in charge? Who put you

575
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,719
Speaker 1: in charge of diets? Who put you in charge of

576
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 1: wellness practices? And I think sometimes when we learn something new,

577
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: we're so excited and everybody should listen to it. But

578
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: in actuality, it's our stuff. Yeah, it's our stuff, and

579
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 1: it's another way for us to need to be respectful.

580
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 1: I think in friendships we have to be a good

581
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: friend to attract good friends, and those terms and conditions

582
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 1: of friendship change and is really person dependent. Every friend

583
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 1: should not be met with the same set of boundaries

584
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 1: or expectations. We should consider someone's lifestyle and their capacity,

585
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,879
Speaker 1: because sometimes we're looking at their lifestyle and it's like, well,

586
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 1: she don't have any kids, and she don't she could come.

587
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: She may not have the mental capacity, she may not

588
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: have the emotional capacity, So the expectations are sometimes misaligned.

589
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 1: But I think of friendship as a very sacred relationship.

590
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh god, it so truly is, especially as we

591
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 3: get older. I just think that's so much more and

592
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 3: more like how lucky I feel to have deeply rooted

593
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 3: friendships that I can also like not be my best in,

594
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 3: you know, like ones that I can yeah, just be

595
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,359
Speaker 3: every facet of what being a flawed human being is.

596
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 3: And get to I think it's such a privilege to

597
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 3: be able to watch people over time, to be with

598
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 3: people over time and see who they were, who they are,

599
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:10,800
Speaker 3: who they.

600
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: Want to be. You know, Yeah, over time is interesting.

601
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 1: I have a friend and in high school she always

602
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: had on a mini skirt, and every once in a

603
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: while be like, remember you used to love those mini skirts.

604
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:32,760
Speaker 1: We called you many, always in a little mini skirt.

605
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 1: I've been just and it's you know, it's it's fun

606
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 1: to have that. And now she's conservative, you know, but

607
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: just having that perspective is like, wow, what a what

608
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: a share And I accept that. I don't hold it

609
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: against you you used to be because sometimes people will

610
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 1: do that like that changes. It's punitive, but it's almost

611
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: like it's it's just so interesting. I'm like, that is

612
00:35:55,600 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: just so interesting because who we were then is certainly

613
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: not who we are now, and it shouldn't be. You know,

614
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 1: we have the ability to change, and we do that

615
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 1: in friendships, just like we do it in long term

616
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: romantic relationships. We do it as parents, we do it

617
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 1: as daughters, like we change as people. And that's okay.

618
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, something I was really grateful for was you

619
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,760
Speaker 3: did a beautiful blurt for my book Living in Wisdom,

620
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 3: which is about a lot of wellness practices. And I

621
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 3: know something that you absolutely explore in your work in

622
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 3: this book is part of the balancing act is having

623
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,399
Speaker 3: a more holistic view. You know, I think you do

624
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:47,240
Speaker 3: have to transcend just cognitive therapy for your life to change.

625
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 3: You have to learn how to be inside of yourself.

626
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 3: What does that look like.

627
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 1: And what do you see with clients?

628
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 3: What do you recommend in terms of how someone can

629
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 3: have a foot in each of those worlds.

630
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 1: I recommend a lot of options because there are some

631
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 1: people who will meditate in the way of sitting with

632
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 1: their legs crossed for five minutes. There are some people

633
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 1: who will meditate on a one word too syllable right.

634
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: There are some people who will do breath work. There

635
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,439
Speaker 1: are some people who journal. But you have to give

636
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 1: people options, and that's what I like to offer, and

637
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,919
Speaker 1: I always give them the disclaimer. It's going to feel

638
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,280
Speaker 1: weird and silly. Okay, it's going to feel completely weird

639
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 1: and silly to sit somewhere for two minutes and say nothing.

640
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,760
Speaker 1: That's going to feel uncomfortable. This is a new practice

641
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: and the point of it is not to be good

642
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 1: at it right away. It is to get better with

643
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 1: just sitting in silence, but giving them a lot of

644
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 1: tools and figuring out how they're already doing some of

645
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 1: the things. Because sometimes waking up and getting your house

646
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: together is your meditation. You know, waiting there while your

647
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: coffee is brewing and just staring at the water, going

648
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 1: into the I don't know what you call it. I

649
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 1: don't even make coffee. The picture, Yeah, that can be

650
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 1: your meditation. Walking through your house and opening your blinds

651
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: and getting your essential oils together, maybe that is your

652
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 1: form of meditation. But figuring out what already works for people.

653
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 1: If you don't like the journal, can you keep a

654
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:32,359
Speaker 1: note in your phone if you don't like to do

655
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: breath work? So you think when you get upset, just

656
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 1: go outside and put your hand on your chest. So

657
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,800
Speaker 1: giving them a lot of options, because I think sometimes

658
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: with wellness practices, I don't want to say it's a

659
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 1: certain type of person, but it's certainly not everyone who

660
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 1: is willing to do some of the things that are

661
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 1: can be helpful, yeah, and very centering and you know,

662
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 1: bringing you back to yourself in certain moments. And so

663
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,839
Speaker 1: even if people don't practice it all the time. I

664
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,839
Speaker 1: love to hear people say, hey, so the other day,

665
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:07,719
Speaker 1: I did this thing you told me to do six

666
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: months ago. Great, happy at work one time. Right. I'm

667
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,839
Speaker 1: not keeping score, but I think just knowing what you

668
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 1: could do. Yeah, and the situation is really important.

669
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so interesting the way people hold even the

670
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 3: thought of that, because it can bring up so many

671
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 3: different definitions or places of charge and someone so many

672
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 3: rejections of it.

673
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: But really kind.

674
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:39,359
Speaker 3: Of you know, at the core of it, it's being

675
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 3: able to be in your life, being able to really

676
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 3: like witness and behold your own life and create the

677
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 3: space where you feel comfortable to do that. And it's

678
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 3: so important for people to notice, you know, if you

679
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 3: can't do that and it irritates you, instead of getting

680
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 3: mad at yourself, get curious, you know, be like, oh.

681
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: Girl, you hate sitting still? What is going on?

682
00:39:59,560 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 2: You know?

683
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 3: We have to stretch our capacity, but we have to

684
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 3: do it through the practice. Like we can't idealize it,

685
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 3: I think, or intellectualize like who we'd be if we

686
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 3: did this. It's like make yourself cringe, get in it,

687
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 3: Like no one knows how to do it. Immediately like

688
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 3: you'll feel absurd, you'll hope no one is watching, and

689
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 3: you'll feel like your skin will crawl sometimes honestly trying

690
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 3: to sit still. And that's what the practice is.

691
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I noticed with meditation sometimes people say, oh my gosh,

692
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 1: I felt dizzy. Interesting, Yeah, like, oh wow, you felt

693
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: dizzy after that, because it's so unsettling to the batting

694
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,399
Speaker 1: to just chill.

695
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 3: I know how interesting us as humans that that is

696
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:46,399
Speaker 3: what's unsettling for us, you.

697
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 1: Know, stillness, silent.

698
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 3: Sometimes when I teach meditation and do a workshop, all

699
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,799
Speaker 3: start by asking the group of question, and depending on

700
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 3: what room you're in, it's fascinating, fascinating to hear the answers.

701
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 3: And I'll start with a question, we'll go around the

702
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 3: group and I'll say, what's your relationship to silence? The

703
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,360
Speaker 3: kinds of things that brings up is extraordinary.

704
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 2: You know.

705
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 3: For some people they'll say like, oh my god, I

706
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 3: crave it. I love it when I finally get some

707
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:34,359
Speaker 3: time to think. Most people say, I can't stand it.

708
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 3: I'm scared. It makes me feel like I'm opening Pendora's

709
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 3: box or my house was too quiet, so it makes

710
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 3: me feel like I have a strong reaction because I

711
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 3: used to always get the silent treatment or so it's

712
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 3: just fascinating how many different ways this idea of being quiet,

713
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 3: how activating that can be for people. So I think

714
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 3: it's just important for people to know, especially silence.

715
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 1: God I can oh God. I love I work well

716
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 1: and not with seeing clients, but if I'm writing, it

717
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:10,240
Speaker 1: has to be silent. Any noise is like a distraction

718
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 1: to me, a car driving down the street, some something

719
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 1: going on in the house or something like that. It's like,

720
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 1: I like it to be silent. I like waking up

721
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:23,839
Speaker 1: early in the morning while everybody is asleep because it's

722
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 1: so quiet. It's like I'm tiptoeing, like, oh my gosh,

723
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 1: I hear nothing like that feels great to me because

724
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,959
Speaker 1: I feel like once people join you in the world,

725
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 1: it's loud. Yeah, yeah, it's so loud.

726
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 3: Especially as a mom, we start the day with a

727
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:44,399
Speaker 3: hundred people talking to us.

728
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 1: That's how you know.

729
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 3: When you go to drop off, you're like, I'm awake,

730
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 3: it's early, and all the people are.

731
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: Here, all the people they're messaging, they're yeah, all the

732
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 1: things are happening at once. So when there is like

733
00:42:55,800 --> 00:43:01,800
Speaker 1: silence is like this is great. Yeah, it is preparing

734
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: me for the noise. So I need the silence, something that.

735
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 3: You talk about in the book, and I just I

736
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 3: love the way you've broken down your book, like the

737
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 3: way it's written, in the way the bridges that are

738
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 3: created for people.

739
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:18,360
Speaker 1: It's Sheep's kiss.

740
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 3: You talk a lot about attachment styles, especially towards the

741
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 3: beginning of the book, and you know, sometimes these words

742
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 3: kind of take over and then everyone is that he's

743
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 3: an avoidant, I'm an anxious I'm secure. But I guess

744
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 3: how useful is it to really understand the ways we

745
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 3: quote unquote attach and how do we begin to kind

746
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:42,760
Speaker 3: of work with that energy in our lives.

747
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 1: It is useful to know how you show up in

748
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 1: the world. The more information you have about yourself, the better.

749
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: And once an attachment style not always an attachment style.

750
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 1: People can activate things in us. They can activate the

751
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:03,399
Speaker 1: avoidance by their behaviors in the relationship. Yeah, people can

752
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:08,720
Speaker 1: activate our anxiety about a relationship by not calling us back,

753
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,840
Speaker 1: by not you know. So sometimes it is the partner

754
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 1: or the friend or the situation that we are trying

755
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 1: to be in relationship with that activates this. And then

756
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:22,879
Speaker 1: there are other times where we may notice we don't

757
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 1: even have these tendencies with some people. So it's it's

758
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,399
Speaker 1: not this like static thing like if you're avoidant, you're

759
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: avoidant in every situation. Probably not true. You probably have

760
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: a few folks where you're secure, maybe not everyone. But

761
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,799
Speaker 1: then my question becomes, Okay, well, what's the difference in

762
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 1: the people, Hm, what are you getting in this secure

763
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 1: scenario that you're not getting in this one where you're

764
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 1: where you're anxious or you know, if we're if if

765
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 1: it's a client and it's a therapy session and you know,

766
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 1: we're talking about you know, maybe them dat being someone new,

767
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:04,840
Speaker 1: and I'm hearing like I don't want to It's like, oh,

768
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 1: it's sounding avoided. I feel like we have a pattern

769
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 1: of this. You know, it sounds like something you have

770
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 1: done to push people away. They start to express that

771
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 1: they like you, and then you start to kind of

772
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 1: stop answering their cause or you don't like them as

773
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 1: much because they like you. Like, this is a thing

774
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 1: that I've noticed. We have records. Yeah, we here is

775
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:31,279
Speaker 1: historical proof. Here, there is historical proof. So that is

776
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 1: the beauty of therapy that we can you know, we

777
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:36,360
Speaker 1: could kind of go through your timeline and say, well,

778
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 1: on this date last year, there was also a fella

779
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:46,320
Speaker 1: who oh god, who liked you, and I recall hearing

780
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:52,320
Speaker 1: something similar. I recall a similar story. He expressed himself,

781
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, how terrible. He said, I like you

782
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 1: and I want to be with you. I don't want

783
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 1: to date other people. And then you were no longer

784
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: in interested and he started to get on your nerves instantly.

785
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 1: I mean, just like cringe. Uh this guy, right, And

786
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 1: so okay, it happens one time, and then it happens again,

787
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 1: and it happens again. It's like, okay, so you have

788
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: this pattern, what do you want to do about it?

789
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:17,359
Speaker 1: Because what I hear you saying is I want long

790
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 1: term connection. This is getting in the way of that.

791
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 1: So what can we do The next time that someone

792
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 1: says I like you, or they express some some wonderful

793
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 1: thing in a relationship, your instinct is going to be

794
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:35,280
Speaker 1: to cringe. And what we have to practice is sitting

795
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 1: with the discomfort of someone being emotionally available, because we

796
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 1: love to say, oh my gosh, you're not emotionally available,

797
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 1: are you?

798
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 2: Are you?

799
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:51,879
Speaker 1: Are you? Are you emotionally available? I'm not talking about

800
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 1: time available. I'm not talking about after hours available. I'm

801
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 1: talking about emotional support. Because this person is saying to you,

802
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 1: I like you, and your reaction is ooh, are you

803
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 1: emotionally available? It doesn't sound like it. Let's talk about why.

804
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:13,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, ooh somebody?

805
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 1: Who's that for? Somebody? That's funny.

806
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 3: When I was reading that part of the book, I

807
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,760
Speaker 3: was having like a chuckle at myself because I was thinking,

808
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:25,239
Speaker 3: I've been divorced five years, and I was like, I've

809
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 3: probably been every one of these on my dating journey

810
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:29,800
Speaker 3: with someone different.

811
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 1: Like I was like, yeah, I was probably.

812
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,839
Speaker 3: Avoidant in this, anxious, in this secure, in this one.

813
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 3: Like it's been fascinating to see how that can arise,

814
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:44,280
Speaker 3: especially even when you know yourself. It's like we're flawed humans.

815
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 3: We're doing all the things, and people kind of trigger

816
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 3: and bring up different curriculum for us based on who

817
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 3: they are.

818
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 1: And I will say that I have had a history

819
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 1: and relationships with being avoidant. Even last year, I was

820
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 1: out to dinner with some friends and there was a

821
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 1: friend there who was visiting another friend, or a person

822
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: there visiting another friend who I met years before, and

823
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 1: I always liked her personality. I really liked her personality.

824
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,799
Speaker 1: We seem the vibe well, and after dinner, I said, hey,

825
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 1: let me get your number. Let's stay in touch. And

826
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:20,319
Speaker 1: my other friend was like, what you made me jump

827
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 1: through hoops to be your friend? I said, I'm changing

828
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 1: my avoidant waste? Can I change in public? I'm trying

829
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 1: to acknowledge that this girl is cool. Okay, and let

830
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:37,799
Speaker 1: me grow. Let me grow, Okay, don't talk about when

831
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: I met you fifteen years ago and we only talked

832
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 1: every three months. I'm doing better. Let me let me

833
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:53,160
Speaker 1: That is so funny. So, yeah, I met, I've been there,

834
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 1: I've been the Okay, let me get them eighteen rulers up.

835
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: You done broke two point five in friendships and dating

836
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 1: and all the things. It's like, so I do have

837
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:07,840
Speaker 1: to sit with myself and say, Savannah, but is he

838
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 1: a good man? Like, well, why are you even saying no?

839
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,479
Speaker 1: I don't have no reason. Okay, I probably should say yes,

840
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:19,879
Speaker 1: all right, yep, okay, yes, yeah, because I know where

841
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:22,279
Speaker 1: it comes from. I know that, you know. It's like

842
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 1: it's hard because it's like, oh my gosh, this person

843
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 1: could not be what I wanted to be. But yeah,

844
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 1: ninety nine point nine percent of the time it's beautiful. Yeah,

845
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 1: and it's it's really me not being rigid. So you

846
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 1: can you can overcome these attachment styles. You can be

847
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 1: less anxious, you could be less disorganized, you can be

848
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 1: more secure. It is possible. I made a friend and

849
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 1: I courted her instantly. It's like mine, mine, I'm not

850
00:49:55,360 --> 00:50:01,840
Speaker 1: putting people on the five year plan anymore. Oh my god,

851
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 1: I love that.

852
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I love those, Like just those refinements we

853
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 3: get to do right, Like, especially when some of the

854
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 3: bigger work of ourselves is out of the way, then

855
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:16,400
Speaker 3: we get to climb into just those little pockets and

856
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 3: be like, oh yeah, I can release that there, or I.

857
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 1: Can make space here.

858
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:26,319
Speaker 3: But especially in friendships, like it's so lovely to take

859
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:28,920
Speaker 3: some of the anxiousness out of it or the guarding

860
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 3: out of it, to know that you can walk into

861
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 3: a new relationship trusting yourself and make it fun, like

862
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 3: becoming friends in an ideal way. This wasn't the case

863
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:43,000
Speaker 3: for all of us, but when you're younger, it's fun.

864
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:43,879
Speaker 1: It's like, oh my god, I.

865
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:45,479
Speaker 3: Just found out somebody that likes the kind of stuff

866
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:47,359
Speaker 3: that I like, and I can't wait to see them

867
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 3: where we're going to go do this together. And then

868
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 3: as adults, it's more like I think for a lot

869
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:54,799
Speaker 3: of people through this kind of like mm, yeah, I

870
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,959
Speaker 3: see her over there, I don't. And sometimes people even

871
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 3: reject the similarities because oh no, I like being myself.

872
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 1: I don't want someone.

873
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 3: That does things the way I do them, or it's

874
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:08,839
Speaker 3: so interesting to see things that move within us. As

875
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 3: an adult connecting to these kind.

876
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,600
Speaker 1: Of pillars of over we have more experience, we have

877
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 1: more instances of being hurt, we have more instances of

878
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 1: hearing about totally hurt. So yeah, it makes sense that

879
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:25,400
Speaker 1: your guard would be up in so many of these scenarios.

880
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 1: Here's another thing. I am a person who moved for

881
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:34,440
Speaker 1: a man. Oh tell me more. I left Detroit because

882
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 1: my at the time boyfriend wanted to move to Charlotte.

883
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 1: So I was like, okay, and everyone was like you nevered.

884
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:43,279
Speaker 1: Other not everyone. Some people were like, you never moved

885
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:46,839
Speaker 1: for a man. It worked out, we still marry. It's

886
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 1: all the things. But I think sometimes what people are

887
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:56,839
Speaker 1: speaking from is their experience, not that particular person. So

888
00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 1: how many opportunities do we miss out? On applying somebody

889
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 1: over applying somebody else's story. Well this happened to this person.

890
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 1: I know this girl, and she did that, and do

891
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: boo boo boo, And it's a whole bunch of other

892
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:17,319
Speaker 1: stories that counteract that. Yeah, yeah, things are possible in

893
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 1: a way for you that they were not for other people.

894
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 1: And I don't think we get to choose what those

895
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:28,640
Speaker 1: things are, and we have to. The more we can

896
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:32,879
Speaker 1: drown out the noise of this is how you need

897
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:34,920
Speaker 1: to show up with friends and you should be guarded

898
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:39,360
Speaker 1: about this or she gonna try to do this. Hmm,

899
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:41,799
Speaker 1: the more people we can have in our world. And

900
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:45,399
Speaker 1: I'm not saying just like trust everybody, but I do

901
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 1: think we've lost the trust in the human capacity to

902
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:54,320
Speaker 1: be good, and there are still so many good people

903
00:52:54,640 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 1: despite the trauma scenarios, despite the terrible dating, there are

904
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 1: some good people out there. Sometimes I'm like, I wish

905
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:07,000
Speaker 1: I could start a dating service for my clients because

906
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:09,759
Speaker 1: the way they the girl and the guy, and the

907
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 1: guy and the guy and the girl and the girl

908
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 1: seem like they want people. I wish I could set

909
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 1: them up.

910
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:19,400
Speaker 3: Oh, I mean, Natra, there's something to this because like

911
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 3: I would let you match, make me eat a heartbeat?

912
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 1: No, can you start it? Oh no, But I definitely

913
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 1: think that people want connection and we have to find

914
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 1: some ways to better access it. Yeah.

915
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I've just I really appreciated that. I think

916
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 3: people are going to be like beyond blown away with

917
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:45,800
Speaker 3: this book.

918
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 1: This is the one.

919
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 3: That is like for everyone that has read your books,

920
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 3: done your work books.

921
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:53,799
Speaker 1: This is like, I think, such.

922
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 3: Advanced territory to just really open up your world and

923
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:01,839
Speaker 3: open up your life a new way. I also love

924
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:03,960
Speaker 3: And we're going to get into a little rapid fire

925
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:08,440
Speaker 3: question and then we'll close with soul work. But that

926
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 3: is just something.

927
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:10,279
Speaker 1: I really enjoy about you.

928
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 3: Like, you are an integrated woman.

929
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:14,080
Speaker 1: You are who you say you are.

930
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:18,239
Speaker 3: You show up in the ways, in the deeply practiced

931
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:23,360
Speaker 3: and earned ways that you direct others. Yeah, you're just

932
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:24,360
Speaker 3: a beautiful person.

933
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:28,279
Speaker 1: Oh thank you. You're a beautiful person and you're just

934
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 1: so like so can I tell you?

935
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:33,759
Speaker 3: And I'm curious about this how friends operate with you

936
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:38,160
Speaker 3: because you're also a brilliant therapist. How do you hold

937
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 3: your boundaries and friendship in terms of maybe people seeking

938
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 3: guidance from you or how is there a difference that

939
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:47,320
Speaker 3: you've had.

940
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:49,280
Speaker 1: To create for yourself.

941
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:51,759
Speaker 3: In the work Nedra that can kind of deduce and

942
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 3: understand and listen. And then like the friend Ndra that

943
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:56,759
Speaker 3: maybe doesn't want to be on.

944
00:54:56,719 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 1: The clock, well I understand that pe who are going

945
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:03,240
Speaker 1: through things, and I do want to be available. Yeah, okay,

946
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 1: that's really important to me. And so there are times

947
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 1: where you know, like I might leave here and if

948
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:13,480
Speaker 1: someone called, like, hey, this thing is happened, I want

949
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 1: to talk to you. I have a busy day today,

950
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 1: but guess what, I want to be able to make

951
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 1: time for you because you're important to me. However, there

952
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 1: are some people who overstate their boundaries. Come on, explain

953
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:33,840
Speaker 1: to us what is this? Well, I think they haven't

954
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 1: the earned the boundary credit yet. You know, it's like

955
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 1: there are phases in a relationship or people use that

956
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:46,399
Speaker 1: too often, right, Like this is a not to say

957
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 1: if you're going through a divorce, you know that's gonna

958
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 1: last for some months. I can allie for that in

959
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 1: my head, but if you're talking to me about the

960
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 1: same thing ten years later, in comes the boundary. Yeah, right,

961
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 1: So I think it's it's levels to how I apply

962
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:06,760
Speaker 1: those boundaries, and so I tend to be very clear

963
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:12,879
Speaker 1: with people and say like, hey, girl, have you thought

964
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 1: about going to therapy because this seems to be a

965
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 1: topic that in our friendship, I don't know that we

966
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:21,279
Speaker 1: will get to the bottom of it. And it's been

967
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:25,319
Speaker 1: different things throughout friendships where it's like this person is

968
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 1: stuck on this thing. I cannot talk you through this,

969
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:32,240
Speaker 1: five other friends can't. But you may need to figure

970
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 1: out some cognitive behavioral tools, which I'm not teaching in

971
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:40,799
Speaker 1: a friendship. You may need some emdr which I'm not

972
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:45,120
Speaker 1: doing in a friendship because we cutting up on both sides,

973
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:50,359
Speaker 1: so those are not friend skills. So those things you

974
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:53,120
Speaker 1: may need to speak with a life coach. You may

975
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:55,960
Speaker 1: need to speak to a therapist. You might need to

976
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:59,719
Speaker 1: go to a group. So there are times where it

977
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:02,480
Speaker 1: makes sense for you to seek another person. Even if

978
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:05,360
Speaker 1: I'm a therapist, I'm not an accountant, I'm not a

979
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:08,800
Speaker 1: tax attorney. So some of these things you need to

980
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 1: seek an expert. And I can only talk to you

981
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:16,840
Speaker 1: about it so much, but I do. It is important

982
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 1: to me to be available to the people that I

983
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 1: call friends because that's what friendship is. Yeah, thank you.

984
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:26,560
Speaker 1: I think that is.

985
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 3: So helpful and such great permission for everybody listening. Let's

986
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 3: do a little rapid fire questions.

987
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:41,000
Speaker 1: So what does a well lived life mean to you?

988
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 1: Love at the end of it all?

989
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 3: Oh? What are three products you use on your mind,

990
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:55,479
Speaker 3: your heart, your body and your life that bring you joy?

991
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 1: I just try this new product and I have told

992
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 1: five friends about it. Sorry I have told you yet,

993
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:08,120
Speaker 1: but it is l V. They have a shade butter stick. Listen,

994
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:13,640
Speaker 1: what a shade butter stick? And it is hard, it

995
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:17,160
Speaker 1: is nice and solid and you just rub it wherever

996
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:23,320
Speaker 1: you need to. So that I just dropped a product. Yes, yes,

997
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 1: I yeah, I influenced myself. I'm gonna go buy more now.

998
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:32,920
Speaker 1: But I love that shade butter stick. I've been taking

999
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:36,919
Speaker 1: and I haven't I haven't hit add to cart yet,

1000
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 1: but I have been looking at an acupuncture matt oh,

1001
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:45,480
Speaker 1: oh get it? Okay? Yes, So I have been thinking

1002
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 1: about that. And then the other thing. Oh what is

1003
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 1: my thing? I love a little ie maask while in

1004
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:59,560
Speaker 1: the bathtub. You sent me an imask yes, like I'm massager,

1005
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:03,760
Speaker 1: Like yes, I oh do you love it? Yes? I

1006
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 1: like to do the cycle of like nine minutes and

1007
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 1: then it's like that was a good soak. Yeah, that

1008
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:12,120
Speaker 1: was a.

1009
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:14,600
Speaker 3: Good love our alignment there because we send each other

1010
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 3: like really great little gifts like yeah, yeah.

1011
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:23,120
Speaker 1: So those are those are that I guess products, but

1012
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 1: also practice, schools, things, practices, staying keeping your kids at

1013
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 1: your kids, your skin moisturized, that's important.

1014
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:34,480
Speaker 3: What is a way that you've grown that you're most

1015
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:34,920
Speaker 3: proud of.

1016
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 1: I think I am less reactive to gas lighting.

1017
00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:50,400
Speaker 3: What were those reactions?

1018
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 1: My reactions used to be to discover the paper trail

1019
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:57,280
Speaker 1: and prove it to the gas lighter. Look, you said

1020
00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:00,920
Speaker 1: it on November second at two o'clock, and as we know,

1021
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:07,080
Speaker 1: they have a comeback. When I said it, Yeah, when

1022
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:10,240
Speaker 1: I said it, I didn't mean So what I have

1023
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 1: done is taken myself out of the cycle. Yeah, because

1024
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:17,920
Speaker 1: I know what the truth is. I have proof of

1025
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:22,360
Speaker 1: the truth in many cases. And so now when people

1026
01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 1: gaslight in any way, and sometimes my kids will do it,

1027
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 1: I didn't have that there, okay, or I promise I'll

1028
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:33,480
Speaker 1: put it back. So I just take a little picture

1029
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:36,040
Speaker 1: and I'm like, okay, so this is why you can't

1030
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:41,000
Speaker 1: use this outlet anymore, because now the thing is forever unplugged. Like,

1031
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 1: now you've unplugged the refrigerator, right, It's like I was

1032
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:47,440
Speaker 1: just gonna use it for ten seconds. Okay, now we

1033
01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:49,200
Speaker 1: have a row. We have no food. Now we have

1034
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 1: no food. It's all spoiled, thank you. But yeah, I

1035
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:55,760
Speaker 1: just I don't respond to it in the same way

1036
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:59,160
Speaker 1: I used to get so like personally attacked, like why

1037
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 1: would they do that to me? And it's just a

1038
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 1: part of their process. It is just a part of

1039
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:07,280
Speaker 1: their process. They're not doing it just to me. They

1040
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:11,400
Speaker 1: do it to people. Yeah, so it's not even personal.

1041
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:13,640
Speaker 1: It is the way that they exist in the world.

1042
01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:18,760
Speaker 1: And in my mind, if you have proof, yep, yeah,

1043
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 1: you would just own up to it.

1044
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:20,640
Speaker 3: Right.

1045
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:23,560
Speaker 1: That has not been the pattern of what has happened

1046
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:27,720
Speaker 1: with anyone ever, anyone ever, I mean even a hairstylist,

1047
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:32,400
Speaker 1: even though you know when people have that character and

1048
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:36,840
Speaker 1: they react in that way with gaslighting, it's like, okay,

1049
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 1: all right, I know what I need to do here.

1050
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:42,080
Speaker 1: I need to change what I'm doing right right, Then

1051
01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:44,800
Speaker 1: it comes down to participation. I'm not participating.

1052
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:50,520
Speaker 3: Last question, what's one of your favorite things about yourself

1053
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:51,120
Speaker 3: as a woman.

1054
01:01:55,880 --> 01:02:02,200
Speaker 1: I am solution focused probably in many cases before I think.

1055
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:05,440
Speaker 1: So if it's like something like, oh my gosh, I

1056
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:06,880
Speaker 1: broke a hill on my shoe, Okay, I'll just have

1057
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:08,440
Speaker 1: to walk on my tiptails, and it's like you have

1058
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:13,240
Speaker 1: another pair of shoes, I'm like, I didn't even think

1059
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:15,640
Speaker 1: about that. I was just like, okay, keep going. Like

1060
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:20,120
Speaker 1: I'm very much like if something happens, I'm like, it

1061
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 1: doesn't stop me. Yeah, it's like I'm still doing the thing.

1062
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:27,280
Speaker 1: Let me quickly figure out a plan and pivot, But

1063
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:29,840
Speaker 1: I'm not going to get off the track. That's not

1064
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:33,640
Speaker 1: one of the things that could happen here. Yeah. Oh

1065
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 1: I love that.

1066
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:37,920
Speaker 3: Our final thing on every episode, I invite our guests

1067
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:41,760
Speaker 3: to leave a piece of soul work for the audience listening,

1068
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:44,120
Speaker 3: so a way to kind of integrate this episode as

1069
01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:46,840
Speaker 3: they live with it, see you know what kind of

1070
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:50,960
Speaker 3: parts of themselves. It climbs into what is a practice,

1071
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:56,280
Speaker 3: a thought, a prompt, a quote, anything for integration of

1072
01:02:56,320 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 3: everything that we expressed in this episode.

1073
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:06,920
Speaker 1: What is your relationship with offering people grace? And you

1074
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 1: are also the people, so that is for yourself and others.

1075
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:14,919
Speaker 1: Oh that's good.

1076
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:18,120
Speaker 3: Oh that's going to leave us sitting for a minute

1077
01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:18,880
Speaker 3: in contemplation.

1078
01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:22,440
Speaker 1: Hopefully. Yeah, that's beautiful, Neger.

1079
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:24,600
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for all of the work you

1080
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:26,919
Speaker 3: do in the world and all of the ways you

1081
01:03:27,040 --> 01:03:30,320
Speaker 3: uniquely choose to do it. It's such a privilege and

1082
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:32,760
Speaker 3: a pleasure to know you as a woman. Your new book,

1083
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:37,840
Speaker 3: The Balancing Act is available everywhere now, as well as

1084
01:03:37,880 --> 01:03:40,760
Speaker 3: all of her classics. Thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for having me now mistake.

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Speaker 3: The content presented on Deeply Well serves solely for educational

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01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:54,560
Speaker 3: and informational purposes. It should not be considered a replacement

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Speaker 3: for personalized medical or mental health guidance and does not

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Speaker 3: constitute a per patient relationship. As always, it is advisable

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Speaker 3: to consult with your healthcare provider or health team for

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Speaker 3: any specific concerns or questions.

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01:04:10,120 --> 01:04:10,880
Speaker 1: That you may have.

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01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:15,400
Speaker 3: Connect with me on social at Debbie Brown. That's Twitter

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Speaker 3: and Instagram, or you can go to my website Debbie

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Speaker 3: Brown dot com.

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Speaker 1: And if you're listening to the.

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Speaker 3: Show on Apple Podcasts, don't forget, Please rate, review, and

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Speaker 3: subscribe and send this episode to a friend.

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Speaker 1: Deeply Well is a.

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Speaker 3: Production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect Network. It's produced

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01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:37,520
Speaker 3: by Jacqueis Thomas, Samantha Timmins, and me Debbie Brown. The

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Speaker 3: Beautiful Soundbath You Heard. That's by Jarrelyn Glass from Crystal Cadence.

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Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app or

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Speaker 3: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.