1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, the production of 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: My Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and 4 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: for a couple of episodes, maybe more. We're not sure 5 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: how these things ultimately fall together, but we're gonna be 6 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: talking about how humans discovered and ultimately colonized the Polynesian Islands, 7 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: places we know today as uh the Islands of Hawaii, 8 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: Easter Island, New Zealand, Tonga, Samoa, Tahiti, the Cook Islands, Fiji, 9 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 1: uh Tuvalu, and more so in our in our information 10 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,480 Speaker 1: and intercontinental travel age. Though I feel like these names 11 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: may seem very familiar and known, even though they might 12 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: be places that we also paradoxically know are very far 13 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: away from us. We may know that they are, in 14 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: many cases, you know, vastly separated from other islands. But 15 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 1: just because we can pull up pictures of them, just 16 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: because we know we could book a flight to one 17 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: of these if we so desired, Uh, they may seem closer, 18 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: they may see the world may seem smaller than it 19 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: actually is. You know, there's a very limited way of 20 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: imagining what planet Earth is where you know, you say, okay, 21 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:22,839 Speaker 1: somebody picture the Earth, and and what do people picture. 22 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:25,839 Speaker 1: I think they probably picture looking down at some continental 23 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: part of the Earth, maybe seeing mountain ranges, maybe seeing 24 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: the Sahara Desert or something. But often people picture land, right, 25 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: they picture the continents. But if you look at Earth 26 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: from space, what it's really characterized by his ocean. Ocean 27 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: covers most of the Earth's surface, and there's one ocean 28 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: in particular that really takes the cake. It's the Pacific Ocean. Yeah. Yeah, 29 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: but but I definitely wanted to drive home just how 30 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: large the territory is we're talking about here, and we're 31 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: when we're talking about the colonization of this region, we're 32 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: not talking about European colonization. We're talking about the original 33 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: human sailors who departed from Asia and gradually settled the 34 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: remainder of the world, uh, setting off into the unknown. 35 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: But then also depending on navigation, some really fascinating navigation 36 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:13,639 Speaker 1: techniques that we'll get into in order to uh to 37 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: chart this region. So yeah, when you look at at 38 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: a map of the globe, it depends on how you're 39 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: looking at it. Right, If you're you're taking a very 40 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,959 Speaker 1: um uh, north America centric version and a very North 41 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: America centric globe. You're like, all right, there's the Earth. 42 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,679 Speaker 1: It's mostly US, it's mostly North America. But you turn 43 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: it around, you uh, you turn it to the Pacific side, 44 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: and you're looking at a water world, a true water world. 45 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 1: You're you're looking at a side of the globe that 46 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: is almost all Pacific Ocean. Because the Pacific Ocean is 47 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: just simply enormous. It's the largest and the deepest averse oceans. 48 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 1: We're talking sixty three million, eight hundred thousand square miles. 49 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: That's approximately a hundred and sixty five million, two hundred 50 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,519 Speaker 1: and fifty thousand square kilometers, and it takes up one 51 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: third of Earth's surface or thirty percent of it, depending 52 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: on who's doing the calculation. It contains the deepest parts 53 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: of the ocean, and it contains more than half of 54 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: the world's open water supply. Specifically, within the realm of 55 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: of Polynesia and Micronesia, these these subdivisions of parts of Oceania, 56 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: which is the you know, the region of the Pacific 57 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: containing the Pacific Islands where people live. Um there in 58 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: this part of the world. There's an author named David Lewis, 59 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:28,920 Speaker 1: whose book I'm going to refer to throughout these episodes. 60 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:31,519 Speaker 1: But there's a part of his book where he says 61 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: that if you exclude New Zealand within Polynesia and Micronesia, 62 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: there are two parts land to every one thousand parts water. 63 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: Uh So this is this is an area characterized almost 64 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: entirely by water, but Polka dotted with these little hubs 65 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: of land throughout. Yeah, various far flung islands that people 66 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: were able to to eventually colonize and and and make 67 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: their home. And it's yeah, it's it's fascinating. How again, 68 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: I've I've been to I've been fortunate enough to travel 69 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: to you know, say that some of the Hawaiian islands 70 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: and you get there and you know they're they're amazing. 71 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: But but like, I don't have the experience of of 72 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: just the open Pacific, of of the of the many places, 73 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: the majority of the places in the Pacific Ocean where 74 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: there is no side of land, where there is only 75 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: the open water. Now, you don't have to be deep 76 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:27,720 Speaker 1: into historical theories of human migration to grasp the question 77 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,359 Speaker 1: of like looking at all these islands in the Pacific, 78 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: seeing how far away they are from each other. How 79 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: how small a percent of the area of the Pacific 80 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 1: Ocean the islands represent, and notice how many of them 81 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: are populated by people, And wonder how on earth did 82 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:45,720 Speaker 1: that happen? How did people find and settle on all 83 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: of these tiny islands in this vast ocean. Yeah, it's 84 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: it's it's a fascinating question one that one that we're 85 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: still exploring to this day. We're still figuring out. But 86 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: we're gonna be getting in a little bit more into 87 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 1: the history of it and certainly into the navigational techniques 88 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: the amazing ways that these these ancient sailors made their 89 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: way across the open ocean. But first of all, let's 90 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:11,479 Speaker 1: let's go ahead and drive home that while while human 91 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: colonization of the Pacific Islands is one of the most 92 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:20,359 Speaker 1: recent human migration movements in our history, it still retains 93 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: you know, more than a few mysteries, uh, and using 94 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: everything from traditional histories and linguistic analysis to climate models 95 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: and genetics, researchers are still continuing to try and figure 96 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: out exactly how this migration occurred, when it occurred, where, uh, 97 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: you know, where where we went where humans migrated to 98 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: first in this and so we're going to be dealing 99 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,679 Speaker 1: with some tentative dates here as we we roll through, 100 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 1: like the basic story of human migration across the Pacific. So, 101 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: according to Linda Noreene Schaefer, in Maritime Southeast Asia to 102 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: five hundred, this was a book that came out in 103 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: the ancestors of Malo, Polynesians left the mainland to settle Um, 104 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: the island of Taiwan around four thousand BC, and from 105 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 1: there they moved into what is now the Philippines and Indonesia, 106 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 1: and then during the third millennium BC, they moved on 107 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: to settle the islands uh And and Penninsula peninsulas of 108 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: what Schaffer refers to as Southeast Asia's maritime realm, and 109 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: the people who remained there came to be known as 110 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: the Malays. So from here we see movement of the 111 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: same people's further out into the ocean uh the very 112 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: movement of human migration that would eventually become the Polynesians. 113 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: By fifteen hundred BC, they had reached as far as 114 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 1: the Bismarck Archipelago north the east of New Guinea and 115 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: Um and Schaefer rights that within a few centuries they 116 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 1: had spread to West Polynesia, that's Fiji, Tonga, Samoa, and 117 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: Polynesian sailors, explorers and colonists continued and eventually they were 118 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: eventually reached and colonized the far more remote eastward islands 119 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: of Hawaii, um what is now New Zealand and what 120 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: we have also come to refer to as Easter Island 121 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: or Rapa Nui. All right, so now let's try and 122 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: put some dates on all of this. But of course 123 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: all of this is UH is playing out over a 124 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: long period of time, and it's still an area of 125 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: ongoing study and discussions, so these dates are tendative. In 126 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: Schaefer's work, some of the estimated dates she sites include 127 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: Rapa Nui around five hundred CE, although estimates seem I've 128 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: seen estimates that suggest as early as three hundred C 129 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: and then UH. In nineteen nine, the University of Hawaii's 130 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: Dennis um Kawajarada suggested the following dates. He says, Okay, 131 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: hundreds and gathers inhabited Australia and New Guinea by fifty 132 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: thousand years ago, and then around between sixteen hundred and 133 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: twelve hundred b c E. A cultural complex called Lapita 134 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: had spread from New Guinea in Melanesia to as far 135 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: east as e g. Samoa and Tonga, and then Polynesian 136 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: culture developed at the eastern edge of this region. And 137 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: then he says that around three hundred b C or earlier, 138 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: seafares from Samoa and Tonga discovered and settled islands to 139 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: the east what are known now it's the Cook Islands, 140 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: uh Tahiti, Nui, uh To, Omotos and Hiva. And then 141 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: around three hundred sea or earlier, voyagers from central or 142 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: eastern Polynesia discovered in settled eastern island. And then around 143 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: four hundred sea or earlier, voyagers from the Cook Islands Tahiti, 144 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: Nua and or Hiva settled Hawaii. And then around one 145 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:35,839 Speaker 1: thousand CEE or earlier, he wrote that the voyagers from 146 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: the Society Islands and or the Cook Islands settled what 147 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: is now in New Zealand. Now again these are just 148 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: tentative dates. Um there. You know, there's been a lot 149 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: of other work. For instance, according to the University of 150 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: Hawaii at Manoa anthropologist Terry Hunt, and this is via 151 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: Hokalua dot com, which will refer back to that website 152 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: some more in the future. Uh they were part of 153 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: a radio carbon study looking at artifacts from the island, 154 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 1: and they adjusted some of the suggested timelines based on 155 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 1: that work, ultimately arguing for a more rapid and recent 156 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 1: colonization of the outer islands. Specifically, he proposed Samoa around 157 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 1: eight hundred b c e the Central Society Islands between 158 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: ten and eleven twenty, and dispersal into New Zealand, Hawaii 159 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: and Rapa Nui and other locations between eleven ninety and 160 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: twelve nineties c e. UM and I've seen twelve CE 161 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: is sometimes cited as the most recent possibility for Rappa 162 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: Newly colonization. And so yeah, I know we're hitting every 163 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: one of a lot of dates here. I highly suggest 164 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: going out on your own and finding some of these 165 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: sources and pouring over them in more detail if you 166 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: want to get get a clear picture of how this 167 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 1: is going. There are also some wonderful visual aids depicting uh, 168 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: you know, exactly how uh these waves of migration might 169 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: have looked uh, And I'm always fascinated by those uh 170 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 1: even though they you know, they often change again, they're 171 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: subject to the same uh level of change that we 172 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: see with some of the pop sable dates for arrivals 173 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: and colonizations, etcetera. And again it's a very exciting area 174 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: of study, and you'll you'll see papers arguing for the 175 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: for for other things as well, the likes of South 176 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 1: American and even Antarctic contact by various Polynesian people um 177 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 1: and uh and I it's my understanding I didn't go 178 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: deep into some of those. I think some of those 179 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: are are kind of controversial or some of them and 180 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:23,679 Speaker 1: certainly some of the evidence is maybe not as as solid, 181 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: But it just to give you an idea of where 182 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,319 Speaker 1: some of the research is going today and what people 183 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: are looking at. But regardless of the exact dates, you know, 184 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: we can't discount the wonder and accomplishment of the whole scenario. 185 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: You know that this this was this last age of 186 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: true human um exodus, true human discovery and colonization, visiting 187 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:51,239 Speaker 1: places that humans had never been before, creating a foothold 188 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,680 Speaker 1: of human civilization in places that had belonged only um 189 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:56,560 Speaker 1: you know, to various animals before and in the case 190 00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: of the Logan Islands, places where the no mammals had 191 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: ever arrived there, that had not flown or swam through 192 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: the seas you know that you had to have been 193 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: a bat or a seal. I want to read a 194 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 1: quote from from the University of Hawaii's Dennis Colorada here 195 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: for which he he really sums a lot of this 196 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: up um and again this is from there. That hoku 197 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: lea website at hokala dot com. That's h o k 198 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: u l e a dot com. Uh, he writes. Quote. 199 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,679 Speaker 1: The Polynesian migration to Hawaii was part of one of 200 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,559 Speaker 1: the most remarkable achievements of humanity, the discovery and settlement 201 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 1: of the remote, widely scattered islands of the Central Pacific. 202 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: The migration began before the birth of Christ. While Europeans 203 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,680 Speaker 1: were sailing close to the coastlines of continents before developing 204 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:47,839 Speaker 1: navigational instruments that would allow them to venture out into 205 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: the open ocean. Voyagers from Fiji, Tonga, and Samoa began 206 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: to settle islands in an ocean area of over ten 207 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: million square miles. The settlement took a thousand years to 208 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: complete and involved finding and fixing in mind the position 209 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: of islands, sometimes less than a mile in diameter, on 210 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 1: on which the highest landmark was a coconut tree. By 211 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 1: the time European explorers into the Pacific Ocean in the 212 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: sixteenth century. Almost all the habitable islands had been settled 213 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: for hundreds of years. It's truly remarkable. Yeah, especially when you, 214 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 1: I mean you get beyond the exact timelines and you 215 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: start looking at how they traveled and how they navigated, UM, 216 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 1: and what these islands were like when they found them. Uh, 217 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:30,839 Speaker 1: we're gonna be you know, we're gonna get into the 218 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 1: moment more into the navigation models UM, either later in 219 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: this episode or in the next. But as Cabajorada points out, 220 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: what we're talking about voyages conducted entirely in canoes made 221 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 1: from wood and coconut fiber, constructed with tools made from bone, 222 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 1: rock and coral. They use sails woven from coconut or 223 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: or pandana sleeves, and when no win was available, they paddled. 224 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: And these were dangerous voyages as well, not only at 225 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 1: open sea, but when you arrived on some of these places, 226 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: it's easy to imagine the sort of stereotypical like Paradise Island. Uh, 227 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 1: you know vision where Okay, you've reached the island. The 228 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: dangerous part is done. Now you're in this place. It's 229 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: lush and full of life. But that's not like when 230 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: you get there, Yeah, like there's gonna be you know, 231 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: a bunch of animals ready for the picking, and you 232 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: know there there. If you get into specifics, there are 233 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: some cases where there's some sort of of of of 234 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: of of natural, naturally occurring animal on that island or 235 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: the waters around it that are perhaps easier pickings. But 236 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 1: in other cases you're dealing with environments where again like 237 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: they're they're just no mammals, there are no large meaty birds. 238 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: Uh you know, they're they're desolate there playing In some 239 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: cases there it was very difficult for humans to you know, 240 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 1: find the resources they needed to survive unless they, of 241 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 1: course brought them with them on voyages, which adds this 242 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: other wrinkle to these to these voyages that you would 243 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: have to bring things like pigs, chickens, etcetera. At the 244 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: same time, I want to drive home that there's no 245 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 1: one island environment here. There's a wide ver arriety in 246 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: the sorts of islands and island environments you encounter across 247 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:06,439 Speaker 1: this vast region. Uh So the story is going to 248 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: be a little different each time. So again, in many 249 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: cases they had to bring important plant or animal species 250 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 1: with them, which of course is the same story you 251 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: see in land based migration, except with the challenges of 252 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: an open boat. And so you'd end up with this 253 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: first wave of invasive species on the island. And these 254 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 1: are often called canoe plants and canoe animals because again 255 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: that's how they reach their destinations. And ultimately we're talking dogs, pigs, chickens, 256 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: but also plants such as sugar cane, banana, coconut, taro, 257 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: and bab boo. So some of these plants that are 258 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: so you know, linked in the mind and linked culturally 259 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 1: to these islands that you have to remind yourself that 260 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: they were not always there. They were brought with them 261 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: with the people who settled these islands. Yeah, though personally 262 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: right now my mind is fixated on the idea of 263 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: having to make long sea voyages with like a canoe 264 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: full of chickens. Yeah, but it it was done. And uh, 265 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: and as we'll get into much later, you know, in 266 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: order or to prove that these voyages were possible, they 267 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: had to do things like bringing animals with them on 268 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: the test voyages. So, uh, it's it's fascinating now on 269 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: this topic of of the the environments on these different 270 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: islands and how they weren't fully stocked life nourishing buffets. 271 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: I thought that that David Lewis made an excellent point 272 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: in that book that you you mentioned briefly earlier. Oh yeah, 273 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: So to name this book, I'm gonna be referring to 274 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 1: it throughout these episodes. It's one I've been reading that 275 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: is a seminal work in the history of studies of 276 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 1: Pacific island navigation. And this was originally published by the 277 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: University of Hawaii Press in nineteen seventy two. It was 278 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: by a medical doctor, sailor and scholar named David Lewis, 279 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: and it's called We the Navigators The Ancient Art of 280 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: Land Finding in the Pacific. I was published in seventy two, 281 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: but I think updated with some subsequent editions at least 282 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety four, and it may have gone through 283 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: other editions since then. But this is a really interesting 284 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: book because its studies traditional Pacific navigation and land finding techniques, 285 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: not just by the the indirect evidence of trying to 286 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: like look at the history, but actually by putting them 287 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: to direct experiments, so navigating with experienced master navigators from 288 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: various specific islands and studying their techniques firsthand. Yeah. Yeah. 289 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: And and the point that that Lewis makes about the 290 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: stark environments was really neat because it meant that the 291 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: dangerous voyage to get to these islands and establish yourself 292 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 1: on these islands. You it didn't mean that you could stop. 293 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 1: In many cases, you would have to keep making voyages 294 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: because there were certain resources that you could not get 295 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 1: at the new island. But we're worth the dangerous journey 296 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: to acquire. Uh. The example that that Lewis brings up 297 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: is the lack of hard stone on the Cook Island 298 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: of Puka Puka, requiring journeys to take place, uh two 299 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: islands where hard stone could be acquired for use in 300 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: vital tool construction. And he writes that these would have 301 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: been complex trading cycles that would have also been influenced 302 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: by you know, other human factors like the since you know, 303 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: the desire for adventure, the um or, and also the 304 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: necessity of exile, which I found interesting, like ultimately the 305 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: idea of having a complex culture and cultural dynamics on 306 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: a single island. What what where do you send people? 307 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,639 Speaker 1: Where do people run to? Uh? If if there if 308 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: there's some sort of political turmoil on the island, so 309 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 1: contact sometimes remains in place because of that as well. Now, 310 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 1: before we get into the specifics of of of navigation 311 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:38,439 Speaker 1: in among Pacific islanders and the colonizing of Polynesia, I 312 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 1: thought we might briefly touch on some of the basics 313 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: of sailing and navigation is larger trends in human technology. Um, 314 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: we could easily do a proper even multi episode invention 315 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:52,959 Speaker 1: episode about ships. But here are some of the key 316 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 1: dates provided in the seventy grade Inventions of the Ancient 317 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: World by Brian Fagan at all um a book I 318 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: refer to that refer to lot uh because it's really 319 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: good and again highly recommend people pick up a copy 320 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: of it. Um but A Fagan and the various co 321 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: authors that he worked on with the various sailing and 322 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:14,719 Speaker 1: ship based chapters, points out that seagoing watercraft just in 323 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: general dates back probably before forty thousand b c E. 324 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: In Southeast Asia and Indonesia. We see long boats from 325 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: Neanderthal cultures from seventy two hundred b c E. And 326 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 1: we see long grafts from seventh century BC and Mesopotamia. Again, 327 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: these are just general dates based on some of the 328 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: earliest evidence we have, and then as far as things 329 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 1: like plank boats and that goes back to like three 330 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: thousand BC in egypt Um. And then finally we get 331 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:45,159 Speaker 1: up to the frame first boats in the second and 332 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 1: third century c E and in my in what is 333 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: now all England. And as far as sailing, we have 334 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 1: depictions of sales from thirty one b C. In Egypt. 335 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 1: We see two masted ships from sixth century in b C. 336 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 1: B C in Egypt, and the oldest surviving sale comes 337 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: from the second century b C in Egypt. But again 338 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,439 Speaker 1: these are just some of the oldest, uh, you know, 339 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: direct evidence that we have or depictions, descriptions, etcetera. As 340 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,120 Speaker 1: Fagan points out in the section on navigation with Sean mcgrail, 341 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: author of Boats of the World and professor of maritime archaeology, 342 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: the earliest voyages for our ancestors would have remained within 343 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: side of land. Landmarks and sea marks would have been 344 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: key to navigation, and we see this reflected in recorded 345 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:34,119 Speaker 1: traditions and classical and medieval sailing manuals. Makes sense, right, 346 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: I mean, it's like if if any of us were 347 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:37,919 Speaker 1: to set out on a boat into the water, I 348 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 1: would want to keep land in sight. I need to 349 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: know where that land is. So all of this early uh. 350 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:47,399 Speaker 1: You know, oceanic activity would have taken place withinside of land, 351 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: and we depended upon things you can notice on land. Uh. 352 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: You know your frame of reference reference was based on 353 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: the place you came from. Sure, But what happens when 354 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,719 Speaker 1: you leave side of land. Well, by the mid UH 355 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,400 Speaker 1: set at millennium BC, sailors in the South Pacific were 356 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: of course doing this by means of what we call 357 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:10,400 Speaker 1: environmental navigation. We'll be getting into this at length. Uh, 358 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 1: but you know, at this point you have to travel 359 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: beyond dependence on coastal landmarks and sea marks. But that 360 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that there's not an order and a language 361 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: to the open ocean. And for those who had the 362 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: wisdom and the observational skills of the accumulated knowledge of 363 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: their ancestors, they could plot their way by these cues, 364 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 1: They could recognize them, they could read the map of 365 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: the ocean. Now we'll get into the details of this 366 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 1: in a bit, but as Fagan and mcgrail point out, 367 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: you'll find indirect references to environmental navigation methodologies in Homer's 368 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 1: the Odyssey, as well as in the medieval text of 369 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: the Life of St. Brendan, and environmental navigation would have 370 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: been used in some form worldwide by the first millennium CE, 371 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: and that's when instruments began to pop up. That's when 372 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: we begin to use these various technological things to help us, uh, 373 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: make our way across the open water. But with the 374 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: navigators of the Pacific Islands, we're talking again about peak 375 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: environmental navigation, a level of advancement that exceeded anything else 376 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,439 Speaker 1: in the rest of the world, anything else that the 377 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: rest of the world was capable of or had been 378 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 1: capable of, um aweing some of the first Europeans to 379 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: encounter such techniques and for a while seeming simply impossible 380 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 1: to some Western minds. Uh, you know that for a 381 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: while it just seemed impossible that, oh, the people who 382 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 1: were you know, that live in these islands, they must 383 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 1: be here by accident, they must be here by mistake, 384 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: and they're merely survivors of the ocean. They're not masters 385 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,640 Speaker 1: of its navigation. But as we'll get to they were. 386 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 1: They were the masters. That's exactly right. And that's actually 387 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,679 Speaker 1: one of the main points that David Lewis makes in 388 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: this book We the Navigators. Um, he was responding in 389 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: some ways to kind of trends in scholarship on the 390 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: on the settlement of the Pacific islands that had tended 391 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: to say that, well, a large number of these islands 392 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 1: must have just been edtled and discovered by accident, right 393 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 1: that maybe a fisherman or traders were out at sea 394 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: and they became lost, they drifted off course, and just 395 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,959 Speaker 1: by happenstance they drifted to new islands that hadn't been 396 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: settled before, and then having discovered them, those islands could 397 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: be settled. Of course, it is possible that some islands 398 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: were discovered this way, but Lewis pushes back, arguing that 399 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: there's actually a pretty good evidence for a a program 400 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:29,640 Speaker 1: of deliberate exploration and very accurate navigation by the sailors 401 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: of the time to to locate islands and and settle them. 402 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 1: So maybe actually it's time to introduce this book more 403 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 1: fully that I've been reading because I wanted to mention 404 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 1: a number of things that he talks about in it. 405 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: So again, the book is called We the Navigators, The 406 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: Ancient Art of Land Finding in the Pacific. It was 407 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 1: first published in nineteen seventy two, and the author, David Lewis, 408 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,360 Speaker 1: was as I said, he was a medical doctor. He 409 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: was an experienced amateur sailor, so he had participated in 410 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 1: like you know, yacht races and things like that, and 411 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 1: a scholar. He was born in England, but he was 412 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: raised in New Zealand and Rairotonga in the Cook Islands 413 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: in the South Pacific, and Lewis had been a sailing 414 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,920 Speaker 1: and kayaking enthusiasts for much of his life. He had 415 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: done some competitive sailing, including a Transatlantic single handed yacht 416 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 1: race in nineteen sixty and at least one circumnavigation of 417 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 1: the globe in a catamaran, and inspired by his experiences 418 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: with long sea voyages in small boats and his love 419 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 1: of Polynesian culture since his childhood, in the nineteen sixties 420 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:36,120 Speaker 1: he got a grant from Australian National University to study 421 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: traditional Polynesian navigation techniques that did not rely on charts 422 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: or scientific instruments, and he did this research by learning 423 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 1: directly from several older Polynesian sailors and master navigators, experimenting 424 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: firsthand with voyages across the Pacific. With these navigators at 425 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:58,160 Speaker 1: the helm or experimenting with what they taught him. And 426 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: so there are three basic versus of non documentary information 427 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: that he talks about. So one is shore based instruction 428 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: on ancient navigation techniques from knowledgeable navigators in the Carolinians, 429 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: the Santa Cruz Reef Islanders and two groups of Tea 430 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:20,880 Speaker 1: Copeans uh Niningo Islanders, Gilbert E's and Tongans. And then 431 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 1: he also gets instruction during navigation itself on his yacht 432 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: known as the is Bjorn, which is under the command 433 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: of two older master navigators who helped him with his research. 434 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: One is a man named Tevak of the Santa Cruz 435 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: Reef Islands and another is named Hippo Or of pula 436 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: Wat in the Carolines. And I like the approach here 437 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 1: because actually, uh he opens his book by talking about 438 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:49,920 Speaker 1: the fact that understanding indigenous navigation of the Pacific has 439 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 1: been really held back by what he calls an overly 440 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: theoretical approach. You know, just people trying to uh look 441 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: at indirect evidence to understand how the navigation happened, rather 442 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: than doing firsthand voyages with the navigators themselves. Yeah, actually 443 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: diving into the the accumulated knowledge of these cultures on 444 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 1: navigation in some cases. So there's a lot of interesting 445 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 1: stuff about this book. One of the interesting things he 446 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: mentions early on is he says, when he was growing 447 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: up in Polynesia, he says to his elder Polynesian cousins, Uh, 448 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 1: the ocean quote was a homely and not unfriendly place. 449 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: And that's interesting because it I mean, obviously, as a 450 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: land lubber like me thinks the idea of voyaging out 451 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,919 Speaker 1: on the ocean in a canoe is like, inherently just 452 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: sounds terrifying, right, But to some extent that is cultural. 453 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,959 Speaker 1: That's like, because I'm not used to the idea and 454 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 1: to people that have a culture of of long ocean 455 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: voyages in small watercraft like these canoes and catamarans. Uh, 456 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 1: it's it's not necessarily such a scary thing. I mean, 457 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 1: of course ocean voyages do always involve dangers, but under 458 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 1: the guidance of these long tested, ancient navigational techniques, if 459 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: you know what you're doing and you know where you're going, 460 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,719 Speaker 1: it is actually not necessarily a scary thing to do. 461 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: In fact, it could be a sort of joyful part 462 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: of your culture. But on the other hand, thinking about 463 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,880 Speaker 1: the ocean as a homely and not unfriendly place, this 464 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,159 Speaker 1: might cause you to assume that spending a lot of 465 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:24,439 Speaker 1: time at sea would would make ancient Pacific Islanders have 466 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:28,159 Speaker 1: a kind of intuitive feel for ocean navigation that couldn't 467 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: be put into words the same way that you have 468 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:31,359 Speaker 1: for a lot of skills you have. You know, there 469 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: are a lot of things that if you do them 470 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: enough and you get good at them, you know what 471 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 1: to do and you can do it well. But you 472 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 1: couldn't necessarily explain to somebody else why you're doing what 473 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:46,160 Speaker 1: you're doing. But Lewis strongly resists this type of characterization 474 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: about Pacific Island navigation. He says it's, in fact the 475 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: exact opposite. He writes, quote one further notable feature of 476 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,199 Speaker 1: what we were told and had shown to us was 477 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 1: that never once did anyone lay claim to any form 478 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 1: of quote sixth sense. A navigator had reason to believe 479 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 1: that land lay over the horizon because he had observed 480 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: certain signs that told him so, not on account of 481 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 1: some vague intuition. And I think this is a really 482 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,679 Speaker 1: important point to hammer home about how ancient Pacific Island 483 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,399 Speaker 1: navigation worked. It wasn't that you've got a feel for 484 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: it and then you just instinctively knew what to do. 485 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: It was based on knowledge and well calibrated external signs, 486 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: and so I think that means it It probably makes 487 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,360 Speaker 1: more sense to think of ancient Pacific navigation as more 488 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: of a science than an art. You're not just getting 489 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,639 Speaker 1: a feel for things and relying on your intuition, but 490 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:44,360 Speaker 1: referencing specific markers and indicators of your position. Though these 491 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: markers might be mostly invisible to people who didn't know 492 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: exactly what to look for. Yeah, I mean it makes sense, 493 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 1: right the science. You would need the science to get there, 494 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: because the the the ocean is ultimately unforgiving. You know, 495 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,040 Speaker 1: if you were just going on a gut instinct, you 496 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 1: might you might be right some of the time, but 497 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 1: if you get it really wrong once, then you might 498 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 1: not be coming back to shore exactly. And that really 499 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 1: comes through in studying these techniques. It is based on 500 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:17,160 Speaker 1: specific markers, specific pieces of knowledge, specific cues in the environment, 501 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,440 Speaker 1: and a major point of of Lewis's book is how 502 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 1: accurate these specific techniques and external markers were in the 503 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: hands of a master Pacific navigator. Who knew what they 504 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 1: were doing UM. He writes that navigators of Polynesia and 505 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,640 Speaker 1: Micronesia seem to employ basically all of the same techniques 506 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: with only slight variations. He says the only major differences 507 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: were the features of local geography, because a lot of 508 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: these um methods of navigation do rely on knowing where 509 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 1: specific islands in the area you're navigating are, so that 510 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 1: would be different depending on what island groups you're sailing between. 511 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: But otherwise the techniques are extremely similar, and he says 512 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 1: that throughout Polynesia and Micronesia. He said that the techniques 513 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: were employed basically with the same level of effectiveness, measured 514 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 1: by the accuracy at landfall, which in general was highly accurate, 515 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 1: especially astonishingly accurate for not using tools and equipment that 516 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: are available to twentieth century navigators. Than now, I wanted 517 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: to come back to a fact I already mentioned once earlier, 518 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 1: but it's this astonishing figure that that Lewis gives talking 519 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 1: about the world of the Polynesians and the Micronesians, saying 520 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 1: that they inhabit a world of ocean. Again, if you 521 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: exclude New Zealand, this area of the globe has two 522 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: parts land to every one thousand parts water. And then 523 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 1: he mentioned something about this that I thought was really interesting. 524 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: He writes, quote, ocean spaces can inhibit contact, though terrestrial 525 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 1: features like mountain ranges may do so equally, but they 526 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: become highways rather than barriers as marine technology, especially navigation, 527 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 1: becomes effective. I had never thought about that before, but 528 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 1: I think that that's exactly right. So you can have 529 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: various barriers to travel and communication between different regions and cultures. 530 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: But whereas a mountain on land is always a barrier, 531 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: you know, even if you build a road through it, 532 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: the mountain will still slow you down. You know, making 533 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 1: a road through it just makes it sort of less 534 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: of a barrier. The ocean is something that can transition 535 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 1: from a brick wall to a super highway. Once you 536 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: have the skill and the knowledge and the technology of 537 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: to figure out where you're going and how to get there, 538 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: and you have the right kind of watercraft, the ocean 539 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: turns into the most efficient method of travel in the world. Yeah, 540 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: that's an excellent point. Now, there's one thing that has 541 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: made studying Pacific islander navigation more difficult than it might 542 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: otherwise be, which is that in many of these societies, 543 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 1: or maybe all of them and definitely most of them. Uh, 544 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: Navigational lore seems to have been something that was often 545 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: kept secret and only shared with a small group of 546 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: initiated experts. So it wasn't just that everybody in a 547 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: in a Micronesian or Polynesian society knew how to navigate 548 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 1: on the open ocean, but that you would have sort 549 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 1: of a class of educated navigators who would have this 550 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 1: this lore about how to get from place to place 551 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: within their brains and would be passed on to the 552 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 1: next generation of navigators. But it wouldn't be general knowledge 553 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 1: that was shared by everyone. Yeah, and I think that 554 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 1: will make even more sense as we'd get into some 555 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 1: of the details of say, navigating by stars and what 556 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: that entailed, you realize that this required specialized training and 557 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 1: a specialized eye, and not everybody was going to necessarily 558 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: be cut out for it, and it wouldn't make sense 559 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: for everyone to to invest this level of time and 560 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 1: energy into the understanding of it, right. And it's interesting, 561 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what all of the pressures leading 562 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 1: to it being a sort of specialized bit of of 563 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: exclusive lore among a special class of of navigators would be. 564 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 1: I mean, there might have been economic concerns keeping it 565 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 1: contained that way, or it might have just been sort of, 566 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: you know, the the difficulty of training people to to 567 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 1: have all of this knowledge in their head. I'm not 568 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 1: quite sure, but that's an interesting question as well. Now 569 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: there's another thing that Lewis gets into in his book 570 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: which I thought was really interesting about Again, when you 571 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: just look at the problem of you look at a 572 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 1: map of the Pacific Ocean and you think, how could 573 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 1: it be possible to navigate you know, these vast distances 574 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 1: without you know, modern scientific types of equipment or charts 575 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: and that kind of thing. And uh, And there is 576 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: one aspect of it that helps make the problem seem 577 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 1: more comprehensible, and it's this. Lewis writes that it is possible, 578 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 1: quote to sail to almost all the inhabited islands of 579 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 1: Oceania from Southeast Asia without once making a sea crossing 580 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 1: longer than three hundred and ten miles. The only exceptions 581 00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: are Easter Island, Hawaii and New Zealand, though the most 582 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: predictable routes between Eastern and Western Polynesia are also long 583 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 1: such isolated lands apart, the majority of gaps between islands 584 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 1: and even archipelagos are well under three hundred and ten 585 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: miles and usually in the fifty to two hundred mile range. 586 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 1: Since no one wants to cross more open ocean than necessary, 587 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: it follows that most passages were of this order. So 588 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: if you know your Pacific geography and you know where 589 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 1: the islands are and how to navigate to them, the 590 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: problem of crossing the vast ocean actually can sometimes be 591 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: decomposed into many smaller journeys between islands, and the vast 592 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: Pacific ocean problem can be broken up into a kind 593 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 1: of stepping stone pattern. However, this does not mean that 594 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: ancient Pacific islanders were incapable of longer sea voyages. They 595 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 1: were not, and sometimes they did make them. Now, coming 596 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 1: back to the idea that Lewis pushes back against that 597 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: many of the islands of the Pacific would have been 598 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: settled initially through random drifts of people who found new 599 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,959 Speaker 1: islands by accident while drifting about after you know, becoming 600 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,360 Speaker 1: lost or something like that. Lewis pushes back against that, 601 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,800 Speaker 1: and one line of evidence he sites is computer simulations 602 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 1: of human spread and settlement through random drifts. He writes 603 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 1: of this subject quote Contrary to expectations, the results showed 604 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: that while accidental advent upon a number of island groups 605 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: was likely, drifts could not account for certain crucial contact stages. 606 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: These were virtually impossible except as exploratory probes and subsequent 607 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: deliberately mounted ventures. The probability of drifts occurring was negligible 608 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:44,239 Speaker 1: or zero across the following seaways Western Melanesia to Fiji, 609 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: Eastern Polynesia to Hawaii, New Zealand, or Eastern Island Eastern 610 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: Polynesian contact with the America's in either direction, the probability 611 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 1: of their having been drifts from Western to Eastern Polynesia 612 00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 1: and from Western Polynesia to the Marquesas zone was very low, 613 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: and so here Lewis is arguing that not only were 614 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 1: the navigators of the ancient Pacific Islands able to travel 615 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: uh with with great accuracy between known islands and island groups, 616 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,359 Speaker 1: that they also appear to have mounted these deliberate, intentional 617 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:20,879 Speaker 1: exploratory ventures into new waters to find islands that had 618 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,920 Speaker 1: not yet been discovered, and of course, in doing so, 619 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 1: would have the knowledge to be able to locate these 620 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 1: islands again upon you know, going back home and then 621 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 1: returning which again is astounding. Yeah, yeah, simply astounding. And 622 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:38,239 Speaker 1: I think a lot of these the counter ideas, the ideas, yeah, 623 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,719 Speaker 1: that that these had to be accidents, these you know, 624 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 1: these people that people could possibly have set out and 625 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: discovered these. I mean, it's such a I guess, a 626 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,480 Speaker 1: landsman approach, you know, based on a you know, it's 627 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 1: the kind of analysis that a culture that is that 628 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 1: is more situated on the land and and does not 629 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,360 Speaker 1: view the ocean as the majority of the world or 630 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 1: their world. I keep coming back to this, uh analysis 631 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:05,359 Speaker 1: that for the for instance, the Polynesians, most of the 632 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 1: world was ocean and and and generally that's not the 633 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:14,880 Speaker 1: sort of worldview you encounter with with with with Western civilizations. 634 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,400 Speaker 1: And now certainly you have certain you know, civilizations and 635 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,880 Speaker 1: cultures within the civilizations that are more uh nautical and 636 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:25,800 Speaker 1: more dependent on maritime traditions. But but even then it's 637 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,480 Speaker 1: it's it's often the case that they are they're more 638 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 1: attached the land, they're closer to the continent, and in 639 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 1: these cases we're dealing with with with islands within just 640 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 1: a vast world of water. Now, there's one big question 641 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 1: that Lewis also addresses in his book, which is the 642 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,440 Speaker 1: question of what happened to so much of this, this 643 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 1: ancient Pacific navigational knowledge. Right, clearly some people in the 644 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 1: twentieth century still possess it, but this seems to have 645 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 1: become increasingly rare. Uh. And you could easily blame the 646 00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,799 Speaker 1: import of foreign navigation equipment and techniques by other cultures. Right, 647 00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 1: So if you have brought in charts and compasses and 648 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 1: things like that from from elsewhere, there's less need to 649 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,280 Speaker 1: rely on the ancient navigational lore to get from place 650 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 1: to place. But unfortunately it doesn't seem like that's the 651 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,719 Speaker 1: only cause. It also seems that by the last few 652 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 1: centuries many island groups in the Pacific came to be 653 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 1: ruled by foreign empires, and those empires, in many cases 654 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 1: simply forbade travel between islands, Lewis writes in in one 655 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,240 Speaker 1: footnote in the book, quote the banning by European administrations 656 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 1: of inner island canoe travel must have been a potent 657 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:37,880 Speaker 1: cause of navigational decline. Voyages were forbidden, for instance, in 658 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:41,959 Speaker 1: the Carolines. In German times. It Illan attributed the loss 659 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: of traditional lore on Nningo to the effect of the 660 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:49,000 Speaker 1: Old German regulations prohibitions remain in force today and this 661 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 1: would have been in ninety two in among other places, 662 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:56,680 Speaker 1: the Tahiti group, and voyaging is strongly discouraged in the 663 00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 1: Gilbert's Not only must atrophy of knowledge have resulted, but 664 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,920 Speaker 1: deliberate voyages had to be kept secret. Advent upon another 665 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:07,920 Speaker 1: island was invariably attributed to accident. So this seems to 666 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 1: be one of the detrimental effects of various colonialisms on 667 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,279 Speaker 1: on on the Pacific islands that it would have led 668 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: to a steepening decline in the ancient navigational lore and 669 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 1: the passing down of this knowledge about how to navigate 670 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:24,960 Speaker 1: by the stars and these other signs, because there was 671 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 1: simply less opportunity for people to navigate to you know, 672 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:29,759 Speaker 1: go out in the open ocean the way they would 673 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,520 Speaker 1: have before. Now it's interesting too, though, that there are 674 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:37,359 Speaker 1: exceptions to this uh as well. I was looking at 675 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:42,520 Speaker 1: this on that that Hokolea website and over there that 676 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,680 Speaker 1: they discussed and this is also discussed at on the 677 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 1: website for the Bishop Museum UM in Hawaii on the 678 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,640 Speaker 1: island of Oahu, which is an excellent museum about various 679 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,279 Speaker 1: Polynesian cultures. And gets into a lot of what we're 680 00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 1: discussing here. Definitely worth visiting if you if you make 681 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:02,400 Speaker 1: it out to olaho um But that as as discussed 682 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,319 Speaker 1: these on both of these sources, the art of deep 683 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,360 Speaker 1: sea voyaging in Hawaii had it been extinct for several 684 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:12,280 Speaker 1: hundred years before contact with Europeans. So this period of 685 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:17,800 Speaker 1: long voyages ended along with all contact with other Polynesian islands, 686 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 1: and they lived in near complete isolation until seventy eight, right, 687 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,000 Speaker 1: So that's fascinating as well. Yeah, so there could be 688 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,400 Speaker 1: a number of causes there. So there's also there's like, 689 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 1: in one sense, you could have a kind of natural 690 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,280 Speaker 1: atrophy of knowledge, and then there could be some loss 691 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:36,120 Speaker 1: of knowledge by by imposition of colonial rule, and then 692 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,279 Speaker 1: also some loss of knowledge by the introduction of alternative 693 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:43,840 Speaker 1: methods for travel. But fortunately not all the knowledge was lost. 694 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,680 Speaker 1: And so we have the accounts of of Lewis doing 695 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 1: this firsthand research with with master navigators like hip Or 696 00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,520 Speaker 1: and and Teak. And I was going to get into 697 00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,880 Speaker 1: some of the specifics of of these navigation techniques in 698 00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,000 Speaker 1: this episode, but we're already running kind of long, so 699 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:00,759 Speaker 1: I think maybe we should all it there and then 700 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:04,560 Speaker 1: come and talk about the navigation techniques in part two, Yeah, 701 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,840 Speaker 1: how to read these environmental cues and engage in environmental navigation. 702 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,719 Speaker 1: And then and then also some of the history of 703 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,319 Speaker 1: proving it out and then what what that those experiments 704 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:20,960 Speaker 1: those uh uh, those those voyages approved about history itself. 705 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,520 Speaker 1: So join us next time as we continue to discuss 706 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,239 Speaker 1: this topic. In the meantime, if you would like to 707 00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:28,279 Speaker 1: listen to other episodes of Stuff to Blow Your Mind, 708 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:29,879 Speaker 1: you'll find them in the Stuff to Blow your Mind 709 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,560 Speaker 1: podcast feed and that can be found wherever you get 710 00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,160 Speaker 1: your podcasts. We just asked that wherever that happens to be, 711 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,120 Speaker 1: just rate, review and subscribe if you have the power 712 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:42,799 Speaker 1: to do so. We we greatly appreciate anyone who does 713 00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 1: that that that helps us out. Love a good star rating, 714 00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,200 Speaker 1: love good subscription, keep it in huge thanks as always 715 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,160 Speaker 1: to our excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you 716 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 1: would like to get in touch with us with feedback 717 00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:56,440 Speaker 1: on this episode or any other to suggest a topic 718 00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:58,640 Speaker 1: for the future, just to say hello, you can email 719 00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:09,440 Speaker 1: us at contact. That's Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. 720 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:11,960 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of I Heart Radio. 721 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,440 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the i 722 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,319 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listening to 723 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:29,960 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.