WEBVTT - Weirdhouse Cinema: Witchfinder General 0:00:02.440 --> 0:00:08.760 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:15.000 Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema. 0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:17.680 This is Rob Lamb and this is Joe McCormick. 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:20.599 Today we're discussing a film that is broadly considered to 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:23.759 be one of the big three British folk horror films 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:26.880 of the late sixties and early seventies, and as such 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:30.280 one of the legs of the folk car tripod, if 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:32.360 you will, that kind of holds up the rest of 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:36.440 the subgenre. Everything that comes afterwards built on these three films. 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:41.880 It's sometimes arcute. The other two films in this tripod 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:45.040 are Robin Hardy's The wicker Man from seventy three, which 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:47.560 we've covered previously on Weird House Cinema and a two 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:50.240 parter Go back and find that one in the audio 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:52.479 archives of Weird House Cinema and Stuff to Blow your 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:55.480 Mind wherever you get your podcasts. And then the other 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:59.160 leg of the tripod is nineteen seventy one's The Blood 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:03.000 on Satan's Claw. Today's film, though, is going to be 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:06.400 that third leg. It's going to be nineteen sixty eight's 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:10.160 which finder general three films that I want to give 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:11.960 everyone a warning that we're going to we're going to 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:16.080 discuss some level of spoilers for all three films, which 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:19.800 I know might be more of a might drive off 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:21.240 some listeners and they're like, I don't want to get 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:23.600 into spoilers. We're mostly talking about which finder general, but 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:26.920 in discussing the way that this film is pivotal, we're 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:29.080 going to discuss some of the some of the spoilers 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:29.839 about the other two. 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:32.880 Yeah, and I guess we should. Since we're issuing warnings, 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:35.720 we should say warning that all three movies in their 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:39.480 own ways have disturbing violence in them, you know, so 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:42.759 if you're going in be aware that that's that's something 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:45.399 you should be prepared for. I'd say the Wickerman the 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:48.440 least of the three. The other two more disturbing in 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:51.440 their own ways. But all three, of course, do not 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:53.720 to spoil too much, do have some some pretty messed 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:54.600 up stuff going on. 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:58.280 Absolutely, But if you are up for a British Folk 0:01:58.320 --> 0:02:00.560 Are triple feature, if you're going to watch all three 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:03.040 films on a weekend, or all three films back to back, 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:06.720 I do recommend watching them in their release order, which 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:10.720 is the opposite order in which I ultimately watched them. 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:11.720 Yeah, same here. 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:15.600 Yeah. Now, my original intent for this episode of Weird 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:17.880 House Cinema was for us to discuss the Blood on 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:21.000 Satan's Claw, and that's why we both watched it this weekend. 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:26.240 It is a tremendously weird and disturbing film about rural 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:29.960 eighteenth century English farmers who unearthed the remains of a 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:33.680 disfigured body in the earth, which unleashes a string of 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:38.960 bizarre and destructive incidents that include madness, delusions, self mutilation, 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:43.240 ritual murder, corrupted youth, and all of it culminates in 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:48.040 the earth freed Creature's attempt to reclaim the skin, the 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:50.760 hairy skin that it's been growing on the bodies of 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:55.000 its corrupted human followers, and only a brutal witchfinder with 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:58.440 a massive sword can set things right. 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:01.080 He shall use methods undreamed of. 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:03.800 Yes, it's a it's a fabulous line in the film, 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:05.560 but also at the end of I was like, I 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:08.040 could have dreamed of that. I think I could drink giants. 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:10.120 You take a big sword and hit them with it. 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:13.640 Yeah, just with a big sword, but still great line, 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:17.680 great delivery. So with Blood on Satan's Claw, the Weird 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:22.080 Highs are pretty dizzy, fabulously weird film, and that alone 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:24.120 would have made for an excellent weird house discussion. But 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:27.480 the disturbing scenes are pretty disturbing and would have been 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:29.960 a much heavier lift for us, So we passed it 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:33.320 up and naturally pivoted to the other remaining leg of 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:37.119 the Unholy Tripod UH sixty eighth witch Finder General. Here. 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:39.480 Fortunately, nothing too disturbing in this. 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:41.680 No, this is plenty disturbing. 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:46.040 Yeah, yeah, but yeah. You can see how these two 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:51.320 films are, I think in a way, though they're very 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:54.480 different from each other, Blood On Satan's Claw and witch 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:59.440 Finder General I think have more in common thematically than 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:04.000 the Wicker does, because while you can see how they 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:06.920 all three share, these elements that would come to people 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:10.800 would come to associate with full core like rural settings, 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:14.320 like maybe a city dweller of some kind comes out 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:19.400 to a rural setting, encounters older beliefs being unearthed, or 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:22.560 at least the allegation of older beliefs being unearthed. Kind 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:27.640 of a dangerous structure of power that is being acted 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:32.520 upon because of or empowered by superstition. You can see 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:35.240 all that stuff, But the things that Blood On Satan's 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:38.120 Claw and Witchfinder General really have in common is that 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:41.640 they are about witch hunting in the end, but their orientation, 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:45.760 like the moral orientation to witch hunting, is totally reversed 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:47.040 between them. 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:52.000 That's right. The Blood on Satan's Claw is very much 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:54.840 a film in which the supernatural threat is real, and 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:58.520 therefore witches to some extent, to a large extent, are real. 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:03.719 The devil is even physically real, and therefore a witch 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:09.000 Finder General is just free to use whatever means they're 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:12.080 necessary to fight evil. I guess, but which Finder General 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:15.880 is situated in a cinematic take on the reality of 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:22.360 historic witchcraft persecution in the sixteen hundreds concerning fictionalized versions 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:26.280 of historic persons and its evil is confined to that 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:31.240 of human barbarism and misogyny and various other horriblenesses in 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:33.280 a time of chaos and civil war. 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:36.719 Right, So, Witchfinder General is a movie with no magic 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:39.680 in it. There are horrors, but they are horrors of 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:40.440 human making. 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:43.520 It's kind of interesting to remind oneself that that the 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:48.359 Wickerman also has no overt magic. There's no real, definite 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:51.320 supernatural element there. I guess you could read into it 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:54.520 that it does but it does not state it in 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:55.520 any clear fashion. 0:05:56.680 --> 0:06:00.320 I don't think it encourages a supernatural reading, and did 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:02.680 want to take a supernatural reading on it, that would 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:06.200 be speculative. But in Blood on Satan's Claw, it's just 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:09.240 totally it's a supernatural movie. Yeah, it's about witchcraft and 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:10.200 the devil are real. 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:14.159 Yeah. Another thing I would point out about these two films, 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:18.440 about Satan's Claw and Which Finder, both of them were 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:21.680 from a production level related. They were both productions of Tigon, 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:27.080 British Film Productions, and yeah, like like you reverenced earlier, 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:32.840 at the very least, Blood on Satan's Claw is described 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:35.920 as sort of building upon the success of Which Finder General. 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:38.480 So I don't think it's a rehash, but clearly they 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:40.279 were like, let's take a little of this, let's add 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:43.200 a little village of the damn you know, throwing a 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:47.320 couple of other things, and let's see what we can create. Yeah. Now, 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:50.360 I want to set expectations in the right place though, 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:54.680 for Which Finder General. For example, when I rented the 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:57.520 blu ray of it from Atlanta's own Video Drum, a 0:06:57.560 --> 0:07:00.560 couple of folks there, Matt and Jordan, they warned me 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:02.760 that well, you know, it's maybe not as full car 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:06.680 as some people expect it to be, knowing its reputation. 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:09.520 And they also said it's like a lot of screaming. 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:13.520 It's it's like mostly screaming, which is also true. But yeah, indeed, 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:16.560 if you're going into it expecting more of like a 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:20.160 wicker Man like experience or certainly a blood on Satan's 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:22.120 Claw like experience, is going to be different. It's a 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:25.240 different sort of beast. And I have to admit, like 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:31.440 going into which Finder General right after Satan's Claw, at 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:33.080 first it felt like a little bit of a let 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:34.600 down to me because it was coming up from like 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:38.960 this speculative weirdness, you know, with magic and demons, and 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:42.280 also just a very sort of fractured plot, a lot 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:45.200 of mysteries, things that didn't make sense, either intentionally or 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:48.960 unintentionally into this film, which is I think, in many 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:54.080 ways a lot tighter and also telling a real world story, 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:58.640 certainly highly fictionalized, but nothing in Which Finder General couldn't happen. 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:00.520 And I think it's fair to say that most of 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:04.040 the things, not character specific, but most of the things 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:05.880 that we see in the film actually did happen to 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:07.760 someone at some point unfortunately. 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:10.680 Yeah, I would also say of the three, which Finder 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:14.400 General is structurally the most familiar, Like it has a 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:18.280 pretty standard kind of movie plot structure that we can 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:22.480 talk about, and it also is just the clearest in 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:26.040 its meaning. The other movies I think invite a lot 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:30.160 more ambiguity and interpretations. It seems to me Which Finder 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:33.280 General is a very rhetorical film. It's making a point, 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:35.720 and it's very obvious what that point is. 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:38.280 For instance, it's very clear who the bad guys are. 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:41.160 There's not even a hint of doubt, like whose side 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:44.079 you could be on, Whereas I feel like wicker Man 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:48.320 certainly engages in that question, and to a much more 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:53.240 limited extent, so does Satan's Claw. Yeah, but yeah, Which 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:56.160 Finder General is very good? There are certainly times, I 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:58.400 think in the notes I even may have stated that 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:00.679 it was my least favorite of the three. And I 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:02.680 don't know if I don't like to rank things, but 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:06.160 I think initially that's how I felt about it. I'm 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:08.040 kind of coming up now that I've worked in the 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:10.240 notes and thought a bit more about the film, my 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:13.320 esteem for Which Finder General has come up a fair amount. 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:17.040 Oh okay, interesting, Well, if we are going to talk 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:20.360 about ranking anyway, Personally, I don't know exactly how I 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:23.880 would negotiate Blood on Satan's Claw versus Which Finder. General, 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:27.560 I would absolutely agree that Wickerman is the best of 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:30.679 the three. People will probably not be surprised to hear 0:09:30.679 --> 0:09:32.320 me say that, since I've talked on the show before 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:34.640 about how it's one of my all time favorite movies. 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:39.840 It's definitely the weirdest, the most surprising, the funniest, and 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:44.480 the most horrifying and the most thematically complex in a 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:47.400 good way. It's all of that at once. And I 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:49.880 don't know, I just can't say enough good things about Wickerman. 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:52.400 Every time I see it, like I discover new ways 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:54.559 of thinking about it. So Wickerman is in a class 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:57.640 of its own. The other two movies, I don't know 0:09:57.720 --> 0:10:00.200 exactly how i'd rank, but I thought they were They 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:02.680 both gave me a lot to think about. I thought 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:03.480 they were interesting. 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:06.720 Blood on Satan's Claw, weirdly enough, does have at least 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:10.240 one really funny scene involving the discussion of which dunking, 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:13.679 But that kind of speaks also to how disjointed that 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:15.960 film can be at times, which I've read is in 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:17.920 part due to the fact that it was originally conceived 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:21.840 as an anthology, like different stories set in the same town, 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:24.680 and then they all become one story. 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:31.480 I think actually the patchwork and disjointed nature of Blood 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:34.480 on Satan's Claw works in its favor. That comes to 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:37.199 make it feel a little more You're a little more 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:40.080 disoriented in terms of the plot structure, and it makes 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:43.120 it less predictable what's coming next, because you have these 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:45.800 scenes that feel kind of out of place, or like 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:48.720 they're picking up from some other movie you haven't seen, 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:50.080 or things like that. 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:53.840 Yeah. Yeah, it begins to feel like a bad dream. Yeah, 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:56.240 but of course Which Finder also can feel like a 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:58.559 really bad dream at times as well. 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:02.640 Yeah, that's true. So there were some things that I 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:05.560 did think were really interesting about Which Finder General, and 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:08.439 I want to talk about some of those things here. 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:14.520 One is about playing with genre. I am certainly not 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:17.960 the first person to notice this, but Which Finder General 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:20.400 is basically a Western. 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:22.920 That's an amazing point. I didn't think about it, but 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:25.559 now that you've said it, like everything lines up. 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:29.400 Yeah, it doesn't look like a Western because of the setting, 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:32.440 So it's not set in nineteenth century. In the nineteenth 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:36.040 century American West. It's set in the seventeenth century in 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:39.400 British East Anglia during the English Civil War, so the 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:44.240 eastern part of England English Civil Wars going on. But 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:47.199 there are a lot of things that if you just 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:50.800 kind of like substitute out the historical setting, it's a 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:55.640 western's So instead of like dry desert landscapes and dusty 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:59.720 cowboys with six shooters, we have these lush green forests 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:04.559 and meadows and mud booted, roundheaded soldiers with musket pistols. 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:08.200 And if you look for them, there are a lot 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:11.120 of the forms and sensibilities of the Western in here. 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:17.040 You've got chases on horseback, deadly gun play with handheld firearms, 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:21.640 in this case it's matchlock pistols. There is this sense 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:26.640 of lawlessness where higher authorities are absent or failed and 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:30.160 small towns are preyed on by roaming groups of men 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:35.520 with various kinds of power. Even the musical score to 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:38.480 me sounded a lot like the score to a Western, 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:42.000 so it's got a couple of influences. The music does 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:45.760 have a strong sense of English folk ballads, things like 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:50.720 John Barleycorn and Green Sleeves, but it also has sections 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:52.800 that feel like they're from a Western epic, like the 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:54.840 Score to the Searchers with John Wayne. 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:56.320 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 0:12:56.760 --> 0:12:59.400 Yeah. So, as I said, I'm not the first person 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:01.920 to notice critics have talked about this before, but I 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:05.000 think I would have gotten to this observation independently because 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:09.480 it's really strong. It really comes through. Another thing I 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:12.520 think is really interesting about Witch Finder general is the 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:16.720 way that it portrays its witch hunter characters. I was 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:20.360 thinking about this in contrast to other ways that witch 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:24.079 hunters are imagined on film. So one way you can 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:27.320 do it is basically witch hunters are the good guys. 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:31.800 For example, in Blood on Satan's Claw, the witchcraft is real, 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:35.800 and it is terrible and frightening, and it requires a 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.280 violent response. And so this is where we get the 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:41.480 judge played by Patrick Wymark saying I shall use undreamed 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:44.760 of measures. As you said, it's a sword, but it is. 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:48.520 You know, he's bringing the sword to a witch fight, 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:53.240 and obviously anything can work within the bounds of fantasy. 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:56.400 It is kind of hard to take this witch Hunters 0:13:56.440 --> 0:14:00.199 as good guy's vision as having any relevance to actual 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:00.959 witch hunting. 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:03.840 Yeah. Yeah, and it can even feel just a real 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:07.480 a little bit wrongheaded, depending on how vers you are 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:09.440 in the history of things. But I don't know, it 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:12.320 becomes a part of a lot of a lot of 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:14.920 different franchises and so forth. You see it in like 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:18.280 Warhammer and Warhammer forty k. But even then, I think 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:21.440 those franchises are playing with the like the dark nature 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:24.680 of the thing, like these kind of anti heroes, you know, 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:28.080 people doing horrible things in a horrible world where maybe 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:31.080 the worst choice is also the best choice, that sort 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:34.120 of thing. But yeah, Whymark's judge is kind of presented 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:36.920 as a learned man who, upon examining the facts, just 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:39.080 kind of invents witch hunting for himself. 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:41.520 Yeah, I'm the first person to think of this. 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:44.120 Yeah, But at the same time, fiery conclusion of that 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:46.600 film kind of suggests that maybe the judge is as 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:49.320 much a devil as the twisted creature from the ground. 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:51.680 I didn't really think about it that way in Blood 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:53.640 on Satan's Claw. That's interesting. I'll have to look out 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:58.680 for that next time we watch. Okay, So another way 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:01.040 that you can put together a witch hunt story is 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:05.320 showing the witch hunters as figures that highlight the dangers 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:08.800 of fanaticism. So a story like this is going to 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:13.640 be a statement usually about religion and belief. Witch hunting 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:17.720 harms innocent people, to show us what happens when people 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:21.400 give in to superstition and unchecked religious mania. It's like 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:25.240 an it's an absence of reason, an absence of rationality. 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:28.280 That is usually the you know, what's really gone wrong 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:29.640 in these types of stories. 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.480 And I think people are perhaps more used to this 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:36.600 sort of witch hunting trope in terms of like general 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:39.200 storytelling and also just common language, because if someone is 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:42.240 accusing something of being a witch hunt, which they do, 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:46.200 they're generally trying to make a point that it's some 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:51.440 sort of like ridiculous, over zealous persecution of the innocent, 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:55.040 and so I think we're all rather acquainted with that, 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:57.720 and we see direct examples of that in various shows 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:01.440 and stories and which you know, there are religious zealots 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:04.240 that are actively going after women and accusing them of 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:06.200 being witches and then doing horrible things to them. 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:09.160 Yeah, and you can get, of course mixes of these 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:12.880 different types as well. So I think the example of 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:15.320 the Crucible, you know, it has elements of the dangers 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:17.840 of fanaticism, but also the next category I'm going to 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:22.040 talk about, which is dangers of authoritarianism, whereas the last 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:25.200 category is about religion and belief. These types of stories 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:28.320 are more a statement about power and systems of law 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:32.480 and justice. So witch hunters operate under the aegis of 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:36.120 some state or church authority, and they use that power 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:40.480 vested in them in an extreme and oppressive way. These 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:44.400 stories are often analogized to the actions of even secular 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:47.400 authoritarian governments. So you know, if you could think about 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:51.280 to whatever extent, the Crucible is about this type of 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:56.200 witch hunting abuse, it was also an analogy for McCarthyism, 0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:02.120 but which Finder General offers, I would a a slightly 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:05.560 different model from any of those because the villains of 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:09.920 this film, Matthew Hopkins and John Stern, which again are 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:13.679 based on real historical figures. It's fictionalized for the movie, 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:16.119 but there really were, you know, there are there are 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:21.120 historical figures at the core of these characterizations. How they 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:24.920 are portrayed in the movie is not at all as 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:31.640 authentic puritanical fanatics, and they're also not exactly an expression 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:37.520 of like top down authoritarian terror, because this comes through 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:40.160 in the movie. But it was also historically true that 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:44.959 Hopkins and Stern did not actually have the approval of 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:49.160 any central authority or institution that people at the time 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:54.640 would have viewed as legitimate. They were essentially murder scammers, 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:57.080 and that is how they're portrayed in the movie. I 0:17:57.080 --> 0:17:58.760 think that's the best way to think of them. They're 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:02.280 running a griff and it just happens to involve killing 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:04.000 people for alleged witchcraft. 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:06.800 That is a great point. Yeah, because neither man is 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:10.600 portrayed as being a dangerous zealot. They don't they don't 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:13.320 seem to really be religiously invested in what they're doing. 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:17.919 I mean, Stern is definitely a detestable statist, but Hopkins 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:22.199 is just Hopkins is more complex. But yeah, I like 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:25.200 the description that they're both murder scammers because that does 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:26.680 drive home what they're doing here. 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:30.159 Right, So the different model you get in this movie 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:36.439 is witch hunters as sadistic, opportunistic predators. They are taking 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:41.720 advantage of the environment of superstition and fanaticism among the locals, 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:46.520 and they're also taking advantage of the lawlessness and confusion 0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:50.119 introduced by the Civil War in order to run a 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:54.080 scam where they travel from town to town pretending to 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:59.000 be legitimate authorities authorized by Parliament to solve the dangerous 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:02.760 witchcraft problem that is plaguing the land, when in reality 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:07.520 they're just torturing, murdering, and preying on random innocent people, 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:11.360 then demanding money from local authorities and compensation, and then 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:14.280 packing up and moving on. So it is like a 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:18.800 traveling scam. It's a traveling medicine show almost in a way. 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:21.719 It just involves like torturing and executing people. 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:24.680 Yeah, And a really telling detail that I thought was 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.760 important is that that Hopkins doesn't just roll up music 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:30.439 man style and convince the town that it needs some 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:34.080 witch finding, though how amazing would that have been. Now 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:37.639 he is called, he is paid, and he has no 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:42.640 problem whatsoever finding locals to willingly and even enthusiastically aid 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:43.879 him in his cruelty. 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:49.080 Yeah. So I think this is a really interesting take 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:54.120 on witch hunting, and it highlights a type of violence 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:59.960 and exploitation that still very much exists today. You might 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:03.800 think of this as like the witch hunting entrepreneur, people 0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:09.919 who take advantage of chaotic and confusing situations to fake 0:20:10.040 --> 0:20:13.320 their way into being granted trust by people who are 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:17.040 looking for safety and order, and then abusing that trust 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:20.240 for their own personal and often actually sadistic gain. 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:24.919 Yeah, today they would be influencers properly or or you know, 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:26.840 I don't know, even people with some sort of a 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:32.560 nebulous government position in certain you know, certain certainly and 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:35.479 fascist waning regimes in the world today. 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:38.639 Yeah, authoritarian entrepreneurs. 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:39.440 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:42.800 So this is one way in which I would say 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:46.000 that Witchfinder General is distinct from a lot of the 0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:50.000 other full corror movies you might be thinking of, because 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:53.680 a lot of those really are concerned with with belief 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:59.280 and ritual and religion, like with pagan beliefs or witchcraft itself, 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:02.879 you know, with what these belief systems actually involve and 0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:05.840 what their rituals are. That's kind of beside the point 0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:09.080 in which Finder General it's not even really about the 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:14.080 religion of the oppressors either, because you know, the Christianity 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:18.240 of the witch Finders seems maybe they believe it, but 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:20.639 it's kind of lightly held. They're mainly like they have 0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:24.480 found a way to do to stamp out what they 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:27.440 believe is heresy in a way that is profitable. 0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:29.160 They're a lucrative loophole. 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:33.560 Yes, So it is different in that regard I think 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:37.200 in that it is less focused on religion and ritual 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:40.520 and belief in magic and all that kind of stuff, 0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:46.520 and more on just murderous bureaucracy and opportunistic predators that 0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:48.600 look for vacuums of power. 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:53.920 All right, well, let's go ahead, and we'll just mention 0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:56.520 now that if you're looking to watch this movie for yourself, 0:21:56.520 --> 0:21:59.240 it's widely available. I believe the version I ran it 0:21:59.240 --> 0:22:01.840 from video drone is the eighty eight Films Blu ray, 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:04.120 which I guess is region free because I was able 0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:07.679 to play it always checking. I'm never an expert on 0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:09.679 the regions of these things, so do check before you 0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:12.040 purchase a disc. But you can also find it on 0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:15.840 various streaming sites, including MGM plus and two B. I'll 0:22:15.880 --> 0:22:18.600 also note that when it was released in the US, 0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:22.119 it was released as The Conqueror Worm, with an intro 0:22:22.200 --> 0:22:25.720 in outro featuring Vincent Price reading the Edgarllan Poe poem, 0:22:25.800 --> 0:22:28.280 apparently in a loose attempt to tie it in with 0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:33.080 the Price po cycle of Roger Korman films. But this film, 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:35.520 it actually has nothing to do with the works of 0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:36.600 ed Ground Poe. 0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:39.359 Nothing, and it's not Yeah, it's not. It does have 0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:42.080