Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema.
Speaker 3: This is Rob Lamb and this is Joe McCormick.
Speaker 2: Today we're discussing a film that is broadly considered to
Speaker 2: be one of the big three British folk horror films
Speaker 2: of the late sixties and early seventies, and as such
Speaker 2: one of the legs of the folk car tripod, if
Speaker 2: you will, that kind of holds up the rest of
Speaker 2: the subgenre. Everything that comes afterwards built on these three films.
Speaker 2: It's sometimes arcute. The other two films in this tripod
Speaker 2: are Robin Hardy's The wicker Man from seventy three, which
Speaker 2: we've covered previously on Weird House Cinema and a two
Speaker 2: parter Go back and find that one in the audio
Speaker 2: archives of Weird House Cinema and Stuff to Blow your
Speaker 2: Mind wherever you get your podcasts. And then the other
Speaker 2: leg of the tripod is nineteen seventy one's The Blood
Speaker 2: on Satan's Claw. Today's film, though, is going to be
Speaker 2: that third leg. It's going to be nineteen sixty eight's
Speaker 2: which finder general three films that I want to give
Speaker 2: everyone a warning that we're going to we're going to
Speaker 2: discuss some level of spoilers for all three films, which
Speaker 2: I know might be more of a might drive off
Speaker 2: some listeners and they're like, I don't want to get
Speaker 2: into spoilers. We're mostly talking about which finder general, but
Speaker 2: in discussing the way that this film is pivotal, we're
Speaker 2: going to discuss some of the some of the spoilers
Speaker 2: about the other two.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I guess we should. Since we're issuing warnings,
Speaker 3: we should say warning that all three movies in their
Speaker 3: own ways have disturbing violence in them, you know, so
Speaker 3: if you're going in be aware that that's that's something
Speaker 3: you should be prepared for. I'd say the Wickerman the
Speaker 3: least of the three. The other two more disturbing in
Speaker 3: their own ways. But all three, of course, do not
Speaker 3: to spoil too much, do have some some pretty messed
Speaker 3: up stuff going on.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, But if you are up for a British Folk
Speaker 2: Are triple feature, if you're going to watch all three
Speaker 2: films on a weekend, or all three films back to back,
Speaker 2: I do recommend watching them in their release order, which
Speaker 2: is the opposite order in which I ultimately watched them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, same here.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, my original intent for this episode of Weird
Speaker 2: House Cinema was for us to discuss the Blood on
Speaker 2: Satan's Claw, and that's why we both watched it this weekend.
Speaker 2: It is a tremendously weird and disturbing film about rural
Speaker 2: eighteenth century English farmers who unearthed the remains of a
Speaker 2: disfigured body in the earth, which unleashes a string of
Speaker 2: bizarre and destructive incidents that include madness, delusions, self mutilation,
Speaker 2: ritual murder, corrupted youth, and all of it culminates in
Speaker 2: the earth freed Creature's attempt to reclaim the skin, the
Speaker 2: hairy skin that it's been growing on the bodies of
Speaker 2: its corrupted human followers, and only a brutal witchfinder with
Speaker 2: a massive sword can set things right.
Speaker 3: He shall use methods undreamed of.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's a it's a fabulous line in the film,
Speaker 2: but also at the end of I was like, I
Speaker 2: could have dreamed of that. I think I could drink giants.
Speaker 3: You take a big sword and hit them with it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just with a big sword, but still great line,
Speaker 2: great delivery. So with Blood on Satan's Claw, the Weird
Speaker 2: Highs are pretty dizzy, fabulously weird film, and that alone
Speaker 2: would have made for an excellent weird house discussion. But
Speaker 2: the disturbing scenes are pretty disturbing and would have been
Speaker 2: a much heavier lift for us, So we passed it
Speaker 2: up and naturally pivoted to the other remaining leg of
Speaker 2: the Unholy Tripod UH sixty eighth witch Finder General. Here.
Speaker 3: Fortunately, nothing too disturbing in this.
Speaker 2: No, this is plenty disturbing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but yeah. You can see how these two
Speaker 3: films are, I think in a way, though they're very
Speaker 3: different from each other, Blood On Satan's Claw and witch
Speaker 3: Finder General I think have more in common thematically than
Speaker 3: the Wicker does, because while you can see how they
Speaker 3: all three share, these elements that would come to people
Speaker 3: would come to associate with full core like rural settings,
Speaker 3: like maybe a city dweller of some kind comes out
Speaker 3: to a rural setting, encounters older beliefs being unearthed, or
Speaker 3: at least the allegation of older beliefs being unearthed. Kind
Speaker 3: of a dangerous structure of power that is being acted
Speaker 3: upon because of or empowered by superstition. You can see
Speaker 3: all that stuff, But the things that Blood On Satan's
Speaker 3: Claw and Witchfinder General really have in common is that
Speaker 3: they are about witch hunting in the end, but their orientation,
Speaker 3: like the moral orientation to witch hunting, is totally reversed
Speaker 3: between them.
Speaker 2: That's right. The Blood on Satan's Claw is very much
Speaker 2: a film in which the supernatural threat is real, and
Speaker 2: therefore witches to some extent, to a large extent, are real.
Speaker 2: The devil is even physically real, and therefore a witch
Speaker 2: Finder General is just free to use whatever means they're
Speaker 2: necessary to fight evil. I guess, but which Finder General
Speaker 2: is situated in a cinematic take on the reality of
Speaker 2: historic witchcraft persecution in the sixteen hundreds concerning fictionalized versions
Speaker 2: of historic persons and its evil is confined to that
Speaker 2: of human barbarism and misogyny and various other horriblenesses in
Speaker 2: a time of chaos and civil war.
Speaker 3: Right, So, Witchfinder General is a movie with no magic
Speaker 3: in it. There are horrors, but they are horrors of
Speaker 3: human making.
Speaker 2: It's kind of interesting to remind oneself that that the
Speaker 2: Wickerman also has no overt magic. There's no real, definite
Speaker 2: supernatural element there. I guess you could read into it
Speaker 2: that it does but it does not state it in
Speaker 2: any clear fashion.
Speaker 3: I don't think it encourages a supernatural reading, and did
Speaker 3: want to take a supernatural reading on it, that would
Speaker 3: be speculative. But in Blood on Satan's Claw, it's just
Speaker 3: totally it's a supernatural movie. Yeah, it's about witchcraft and
Speaker 3: the devil are real.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Another thing I would point out about these two films,
Speaker 2: about Satan's Claw and Which Finder, both of them were
Speaker 2: from a production level related. They were both productions of Tigon,
Speaker 2: British Film Productions, and yeah, like like you reverenced earlier,
Speaker 2: at the very least, Blood on Satan's Claw is described
Speaker 2: as sort of building upon the success of Which Finder General.
Speaker 2: So I don't think it's a rehash, but clearly they
Speaker 2: were like, let's take a little of this, let's add
Speaker 2: a little village of the damn you know, throwing a
Speaker 2: couple of other things, and let's see what we can create. Yeah. Now,
Speaker 2: I want to set expectations in the right place though,
Speaker 2: for Which Finder General. For example, when I rented the
Speaker 2: blu ray of it from Atlanta's own Video Drum, a
Speaker 2: couple of folks there, Matt and Jordan, they warned me
Speaker 2: that well, you know, it's maybe not as full car
Speaker 2: as some people expect it to be, knowing its reputation.
Speaker 2: And they also said it's like a lot of screaming.
Speaker 2: It's it's like mostly screaming, which is also true. But yeah, indeed,
Speaker 2: if you're going into it expecting more of like a
Speaker 2: wicker Man like experience or certainly a blood on Satan's
Speaker 2: Claw like experience, is going to be different. It's a
Speaker 2: different sort of beast. And I have to admit, like
Speaker 2: going into which Finder General right after Satan's Claw, at
Speaker 2: first it felt like a little bit of a let
Speaker 2: down to me because it was coming up from like
Speaker 2: this speculative weirdness, you know, with magic and demons, and
Speaker 2: also just a very sort of fractured plot, a lot
Speaker 2: of mysteries, things that didn't make sense, either intentionally or
Speaker 2: unintentionally into this film, which is I think, in many
Speaker 2: ways a lot tighter and also telling a real world story,
Speaker 2: certainly highly fictionalized, but nothing in Which Finder General couldn't happen.
Speaker 2: And I think it's fair to say that most of
Speaker 2: the things, not character specific, but most of the things
Speaker 2: that we see in the film actually did happen to
Speaker 2: someone at some point unfortunately.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would also say of the three, which Finder
Speaker 3: General is structurally the most familiar, Like it has a
Speaker 3: pretty standard kind of movie plot structure that we can
Speaker 3: talk about, and it also is just the clearest in
Speaker 3: its meaning. The other movies I think invite a lot
Speaker 3: more ambiguity and interpretations. It seems to me Which Finder
Speaker 3: General is a very rhetorical film. It's making a point,
Speaker 3: and it's very obvious what that point is.
Speaker 2: For instance, it's very clear who the bad guys are.
Speaker 2: There's not even a hint of doubt, like whose side
Speaker 2: you could be on, Whereas I feel like wicker Man
Speaker 2: certainly engages in that question, and to a much more
Speaker 2: limited extent, so does Satan's Claw. Yeah, but yeah, Which
Speaker 2: Finder General is very good? There are certainly times, I
Speaker 2: think in the notes I even may have stated that
Speaker 2: it was my least favorite of the three. And I
Speaker 2: don't know if I don't like to rank things, but
Speaker 2: I think initially that's how I felt about it. I'm
Speaker 2: kind of coming up now that I've worked in the
Speaker 2: notes and thought a bit more about the film, my
Speaker 2: esteem for Which Finder General has come up a fair amount.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, interesting, Well, if we are going to talk
Speaker 3: about ranking anyway, Personally, I don't know exactly how I
Speaker 3: would negotiate Blood on Satan's Claw versus Which Finder. General,
Speaker 3: I would absolutely agree that Wickerman is the best of
Speaker 3: the three. People will probably not be surprised to hear
Speaker 3: me say that, since I've talked on the show before
Speaker 3: about how it's one of my all time favorite movies.
Speaker 3: It's definitely the weirdest, the most surprising, the funniest, and
Speaker 3: the most horrifying and the most thematically complex in a
Speaker 3: good way. It's all of that at once. And I
Speaker 3: don't know, I just can't say enough good things about Wickerman.
Speaker 3: Every time I see it, like I discover new ways
Speaker 3: of thinking about it. So Wickerman is in a class
Speaker 3: of its own. The other two movies, I don't know
Speaker 3: exactly how i'd rank, but I thought they were They
Speaker 3: both gave me a lot to think about. I thought
Speaker 3: they were interesting.
Speaker 2: Blood on Satan's Claw, weirdly enough, does have at least
Speaker 2: one really funny scene involving the discussion of which dunking,
Speaker 2: But that kind of speaks also to how disjointed that
Speaker 2: film can be at times, which I've read is in
Speaker 2: part due to the fact that it was originally conceived
Speaker 2: as an anthology, like different stories set in the same town,
Speaker 2: and then they all become one story.
Speaker 3: I think actually the patchwork and disjointed nature of Blood
Speaker 3: on Satan's Claw works in its favor. That comes to
Speaker 3: make it feel a little more You're a little more
Speaker 3: disoriented in terms of the plot structure, and it makes
Speaker 3: it less predictable what's coming next, because you have these
Speaker 3: scenes that feel kind of out of place, or like
Speaker 3: they're picking up from some other movie you haven't seen,
Speaker 3: or things like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it begins to feel like a bad dream. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but of course Which Finder also can feel like a
Speaker 2: really bad dream at times as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true. So there were some things that I
Speaker 3: did think were really interesting about Which Finder General, and
Speaker 3: I want to talk about some of those things here.
Speaker 3: One is about playing with genre. I am certainly not
Speaker 3: the first person to notice this, but Which Finder General
Speaker 3: is basically a Western.
Speaker 2: That's an amazing point. I didn't think about it, but
Speaker 2: now that you've said it, like everything lines up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't look like a Western because of the setting,
Speaker 3: So it's not set in nineteenth century. In the nineteenth
Speaker 3: century American West. It's set in the seventeenth century in
Speaker 3: British East Anglia during the English Civil War, so the
Speaker 3: eastern part of England English Civil Wars going on. But
Speaker 3: there are a lot of things that if you just
Speaker 3: kind of like substitute out the historical setting, it's a
Speaker 3: western's So instead of like dry desert landscapes and dusty
Speaker 3: cowboys with six shooters, we have these lush green forests
Speaker 3: and meadows and mud booted, roundheaded soldiers with musket pistols.
Speaker 3: And if you look for them, there are a lot
Speaker 3: of the forms and sensibilities of the Western in here.
Speaker 3: You've got chases on horseback, deadly gun play with handheld firearms,
Speaker 3: in this case it's matchlock pistols. There is this sense
Speaker 3: of lawlessness where higher authorities are absent or failed and
Speaker 3: small towns are preyed on by roaming groups of men
Speaker 3: with various kinds of power. Even the musical score to
Speaker 3: me sounded a lot like the score to a Western,
Speaker 3: so it's got a couple of influences. The music does
Speaker 3: have a strong sense of English folk ballads, things like
Speaker 3: John Barleycorn and Green Sleeves, but it also has sections
Speaker 3: that feel like they're from a Western epic, like the
Speaker 3: Score to the Searchers with John Wayne.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So, as I said, I'm not the first person
Speaker 3: to notice critics have talked about this before, but I
Speaker 3: think I would have gotten to this observation independently because
Speaker 3: it's really strong. It really comes through. Another thing I
Speaker 3: think is really interesting about Witch Finder general is the
Speaker 3: way that it portrays its witch hunter characters. I was
Speaker 3: thinking about this in contrast to other ways that witch
Speaker 3: hunters are imagined on film. So one way you can
Speaker 3: do it is basically witch hunters are the good guys.
Speaker 3: For example, in Blood on Satan's Claw, the witchcraft is real,
Speaker 3: and it is terrible and frightening, and it requires a
Speaker 3: violent response. And so this is where we get the
Speaker 3: judge played by Patrick Wymark saying I shall use undreamed
Speaker 3: of measures. As you said, it's a sword, but it is.
Speaker 3: You know, he's bringing the sword to a witch fight,
Speaker 3: and obviously anything can work within the bounds of fantasy.
Speaker 3: It is kind of hard to take this witch Hunters
Speaker 3: as good guy's vision as having any relevance to actual
Speaker 3: witch hunting.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and it can even feel just a real
Speaker 2: a little bit wrongheaded, depending on how vers you are
Speaker 2: in the history of things. But I don't know, it
Speaker 2: becomes a part of a lot of a lot of
Speaker 2: different franchises and so forth. You see it in like
Speaker 2: Warhammer and Warhammer forty k. But even then, I think
Speaker 2: those franchises are playing with the like the dark nature
Speaker 2: of the thing, like these kind of anti heroes, you know,
Speaker 2: people doing horrible things in a horrible world where maybe
Speaker 2: the worst choice is also the best choice, that sort
Speaker 2: of thing. But yeah, Whymark's judge is kind of presented
Speaker 2: as a learned man who, upon examining the facts, just
Speaker 2: kind of invents witch hunting for himself.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm the first person to think of this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But at the same time, fiery conclusion of that
Speaker 2: film kind of suggests that maybe the judge is as
Speaker 2: much a devil as the twisted creature from the ground.
Speaker 3: I didn't really think about it that way in Blood
Speaker 3: on Satan's Claw. That's interesting. I'll have to look out
Speaker 3: for that next time we watch. Okay, So another way
Speaker 3: that you can put together a witch hunt story is
Speaker 3: showing the witch hunters as figures that highlight the dangers
Speaker 3: of fanaticism. So a story like this is going to
Speaker 3: be a statement usually about religion and belief. Witch hunting
Speaker 3: harms innocent people, to show us what happens when people
Speaker 3: give in to superstition and unchecked religious mania. It's like
Speaker 3: an it's an absence of reason, an absence of rationality.
Speaker 3: That is usually the you know, what's really gone wrong
Speaker 3: in these types of stories.
Speaker 2: And I think people are perhaps more used to this
Speaker 2: sort of witch hunting trope in terms of like general
Speaker 2: storytelling and also just common language, because if someone is
Speaker 2: accusing something of being a witch hunt, which they do,
Speaker 2: they're generally trying to make a point that it's some
Speaker 2: sort of like ridiculous, over zealous persecution of the innocent,
Speaker 2: and so I think we're all rather acquainted with that,
Speaker 2: and we see direct examples of that in various shows
Speaker 2: and stories and which you know, there are religious zealots
Speaker 2: that are actively going after women and accusing them of
Speaker 2: being witches and then doing horrible things to them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you can get, of course mixes of these
Speaker 3: different types as well. So I think the example of
Speaker 3: the Crucible, you know, it has elements of the dangers
Speaker 3: of fanaticism, but also the next category I'm going to
Speaker 3: talk about, which is dangers of authoritarianism, whereas the last
Speaker 3: category is about religion and belief. These types of stories
Speaker 3: are more a statement about power and systems of law
Speaker 3: and justice. So witch hunters operate under the aegis of
Speaker 3: some state or church authority, and they use that power
Speaker 3: vested in them in an extreme and oppressive way. These
Speaker 3: stories are often analogized to the actions of even secular
Speaker 3: authoritarian governments. So you know, if you could think about
Speaker 3: to whatever extent, the Crucible is about this type of
Speaker 3: witch hunting abuse, it was also an analogy for McCarthyism,
Speaker 3: but which Finder General offers, I would a a slightly
Speaker 3: different model from any of those because the villains of
Speaker 3: this film, Matthew Hopkins and John Stern, which again are
Speaker 3: based on real historical figures. It's fictionalized for the movie,
Speaker 3: but there really were, you know, there are there are
Speaker 3: historical figures at the core of these characterizations. How they
Speaker 3: are portrayed in the movie is not at all as
Speaker 3: authentic puritanical fanatics, and they're also not exactly an expression
Speaker 3: of like top down authoritarian terror, because this comes through
Speaker 3: in the movie. But it was also historically true that
Speaker 3: Hopkins and Stern did not actually have the approval of
Speaker 3: any central authority or institution that people at the time
Speaker 3: would have viewed as legitimate. They were essentially murder scammers,
Speaker 3: and that is how they're portrayed in the movie. I
Speaker 3: think that's the best way to think of them. They're
Speaker 3: running a griff and it just happens to involve killing
Speaker 3: people for alleged witchcraft.
Speaker 2: That is a great point. Yeah, because neither man is
Speaker 2: portrayed as being a dangerous zealot. They don't they don't
Speaker 2: seem to really be religiously invested in what they're doing.
Speaker 2: I mean, Stern is definitely a detestable statist, but Hopkins
Speaker 2: is just Hopkins is more complex. But yeah, I like
Speaker 2: the description that they're both murder scammers because that does
Speaker 2: drive home what they're doing here.
Speaker 3: Right, So the different model you get in this movie
Speaker 3: is witch hunters as sadistic, opportunistic predators. They are taking
Speaker 3: advantage of the environment of superstition and fanaticism among the locals,
Speaker 3: and they're also taking advantage of the lawlessness and confusion
Speaker 3: introduced by the Civil War in order to run a
Speaker 3: scam where they travel from town to town pretending to
Speaker 3: be legitimate authorities authorized by Parliament to solve the dangerous
Speaker 3: witchcraft problem that is plaguing the land, when in reality
Speaker 3: they're just torturing, murdering, and preying on random innocent people,
Speaker 3: then demanding money from local authorities and compensation, and then
Speaker 3: packing up and moving on. So it is like a
Speaker 3: traveling scam. It's a traveling medicine show almost in a way.
Speaker 3: It just involves like torturing and executing people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And a really telling detail that I thought was
Speaker 2: important is that that Hopkins doesn't just roll up music
Speaker 2: man style and convince the town that it needs some
Speaker 2: witch finding, though how amazing would that have been. Now
Speaker 2: he is called, he is paid, and he has no
Speaker 2: problem whatsoever finding locals to willingly and even enthusiastically aid
Speaker 2: him in his cruelty.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So I think this is a really interesting take
Speaker 3: on witch hunting, and it highlights a type of violence
Speaker 3: and exploitation that still very much exists today. You might
Speaker 3: think of this as like the witch hunting entrepreneur, people
Speaker 3: who take advantage of chaotic and confusing situations to fake
Speaker 3: their way into being granted trust by people who are
Speaker 3: looking for safety and order, and then abusing that trust
Speaker 3: for their own personal and often actually sadistic gain.
Speaker 2: Yeah, today they would be influencers properly or or you know,
Speaker 2: I don't know, even people with some sort of a
Speaker 2: nebulous government position in certain you know, certain certainly and
Speaker 2: fascist waning regimes in the world today.
Speaker 3: Yeah, authoritarian entrepreneurs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So this is one way in which I would say
Speaker 3: that Witchfinder General is distinct from a lot of the
Speaker 3: other full corror movies you might be thinking of, because
Speaker 3: a lot of those really are concerned with with belief
Speaker 3: and ritual and religion, like with pagan beliefs or witchcraft itself,
Speaker 3: you know, with what these belief systems actually involve and
Speaker 3: what their rituals are. That's kind of beside the point
Speaker 3: in which Finder General it's not even really about the
Speaker 3: religion of the oppressors either, because you know, the Christianity
Speaker 3: of the witch Finders seems maybe they believe it, but
Speaker 3: it's kind of lightly held. They're mainly like they have
Speaker 3: found a way to do to stamp out what they
Speaker 3: believe is heresy in a way that is profitable.
Speaker 2: They're a lucrative loophole.
Speaker 3: Yes, So it is different in that regard I think
Speaker 3: in that it is less focused on religion and ritual
Speaker 3: and belief in magic and all that kind of stuff,
Speaker 3: and more on just murderous bureaucracy and opportunistic predators that
Speaker 3: look for vacuums of power.
Speaker 2: All right, well, let's go ahead, and we'll just mention
Speaker 2: now that if you're looking to watch this movie for yourself,
Speaker 2: it's widely available. I believe the version I ran it
Speaker 2: from video drone is the eighty eight Films Blu ray,
Speaker 2: which I guess is region free because I was able
Speaker 2: to play it always checking. I'm never an expert on
Speaker 2: the regions of these things, so do check before you
Speaker 2: purchase a disc. But you can also find it on
Speaker 2: various streaming sites, including MGM plus and two B. I'll
Speaker 2: also note that when it was released in the US,
Speaker 2: it was released as The Conqueror Worm, with an intro
Speaker 2: in outro featuring Vincent Price reading the Edgarllan Poe poem,
Speaker 2: apparently in a loose attempt to tie it in with
Speaker 2: the Price po cycle of Roger Korman films. But this film,
Speaker 2: it actually has nothing to do with the works of
Speaker 2: ed Ground Poe.
Speaker 3: Nothing, and it's not Yeah, it's not. It does have
Speaker 3: Vincent Price, it's not Roger Korman. It doesn't have to
Speaker 3: do with Poe. Yeah, they just tack the I actually watched.
Speaker 3: My disc has a way of watching the original intro
Speaker 3: and outro with the with the reading of the poem.
Speaker 3: You know, I love Vincent Price reading a poem, but
Speaker 3: I'm gonna say, honestly, it doesn't really add much here.
Speaker 3: I'd probably watch without.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: By the way, the version I watched was the Shout
Speaker 3: Factory Vincent Price collection, which is very good. Has Pitt
Speaker 3: in the Pendulum, Mask of the Red Death, Haunted Palace,
Speaker 3: follow the House of Usher, Abominable Doctor Fibes, and witch
Speaker 3: Finder General. So excellent. Oh, excellent list there. This collection
Speaker 3: is worth it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, some great flicks on that desk for sure, right
Speaker 2: in that set. All right, let's get into the people
Speaker 2: who made this movie. Starting at the top of the
Speaker 2: writer director. It's Michael Reeves, who lived nineteen forty three
Speaker 2: through nineteen sixty nine. Tragically short lived director. He only
Speaker 2: directed three full length films, She Beast in nineteen sixty six,
Speaker 2: The Sorcerers in sixty seven, which we previously covered on
Speaker 2: Weird House Cinema. That one had Boris Karloff in it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and then and then The Witch Finder General in sixty eight,
Speaker 2: his final film. He subsequently died of an accidental d overdose.
Speaker 2: She be starred English actor and Italian horror movie queen
Speaker 2: Barbara Steele. That one sounds like it's a lot of fun,
Speaker 2: but I haven't seen it. And which Finder General is?
Speaker 2: I think generally regarded as his best film and certainly
Speaker 2: his most famous, And part of that is just the
Speaker 2: quality of the film itself. But I think also was
Speaker 2: kind of like maybe the mystique of a young director
Speaker 2: dying young after having made it. Yeah, he was only
Speaker 2: in his mid twenties when he made this film, and
Speaker 2: so we can't help but imagine, you know, what else
Speaker 2: he might have accomplished, had he, you know, had a
Speaker 2: you know, a longer life and longer career.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I have read that this is a movie that
Speaker 3: critics really warmed up to over time, that at first
Speaker 3: critics were not very thrilled with it, but over time
Speaker 3: people really came back to it and thought there was
Speaker 3: something special about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, let's see the writing credits on this. We
Speaker 2: have Tom Baker, not to be confused with the actor
Speaker 2: this is a not much that I could find out
Speaker 2: about this guy age not public record. He also worked
Speaker 2: on the screenplay for The Sorcerers. Then we also have
Speaker 2: Lewis M. Hayward, who lived nineteen twenty through two thousand
Speaker 2: and two, an Emmy nominated screenwriter and producer whose other
Speaker 2: writing credits include the English version of the screenplay to
Speaker 2: sixty five's Planet of the Vampires, Doctor Goldfoot and the
Speaker 2: Girl Bombs and The Ghost in the Invisible Bikini, both
Speaker 2: from sixty six, and then The Crimson Colt from sixty eight.
Speaker 2: As a producer, he produced a number of sixties and
Speaker 2: seventies horrors films, including Scream and Scream Again in nineteen seventy,
Speaker 2: which we've talked about on the show, both Fibes movies,
Speaker 2: and we've covered both of those on the show, and
Speaker 2: then also Curtis Harrington's Whoever Slew Anti Rue in seventy two.
Speaker 3: Wow, Okay, I mean that's a list. Yeah, have you
Speaker 3: seen Ghost in the Invisible Bikini?
Speaker 2: I feel like I've seen bits and pieces of these
Speaker 2: various bikini movies with I'm not even sure off the
Speaker 2: top of my head which one Vincent Price shows up
Speaker 2: in and so forth.
Speaker 3: I think he's in He's in, well, he's the Goldfoot Okay,
Speaker 3: I think because I remember Doctor Goldfoot and in the
Speaker 3: Bikini Machine, which is like it's like one of those
Speaker 3: sandwich shop toasters on a conveyor belt, except I think
Speaker 3: it just puts out ladies and bikinis.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I mean yeah, maybe I'll have to to
Speaker 2: see one of those at some point. Summer would be
Speaker 2: a good time for high art, let's see. Oh and
Speaker 2: the other thing about the writing is all this was
Speaker 2: based on a novel, an original novel by Ronald Bassett,
Speaker 2: who lived nineteen twenty fourth through nineteen ninety six, a
Speaker 2: British writer of mostly historical fiction, and the novel came
Speaker 2: out in sixty four. All right, well, let's get into
Speaker 2: the cast, starting with, of course, Vincent Prize playing Matthew
Speaker 2: Hopkins here. Price lived nineteen eleven through nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 2: This is our eighth Vincent Price film and Weird House Cinema.
Speaker 2: So he's tied with Christopher Lee right now for our
Speaker 2: most watched for four So, since we've talked about him before,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to do the full bio treatment here,
Speaker 2: but instead try and place this film in his life.
Speaker 2: In filmography, Price would have been in his mid fifties
Speaker 2: at the time. This was after the Corman post cycle,
Speaker 2: after his appearance on TV's Batman as the villain Egghead,
Speaker 2: so you know, he was certainly hamming it up plenty
Speaker 2: at this point. But this was also before sixty nine's
Speaker 2: Oblong Box, before Scream and Scream Again, and also before
Speaker 2: The Abominable Doctor Fibes in seventy one. Price was, of
Speaker 2: course an American actor and is here playing a British
Speaker 2: character in a British production, not his first but still notable.
Speaker 2: Also worth noting that correct me if I'm wrong here, Joe,
Speaker 2: because this is one of those things that I watched
Speaker 2: the movie, didn't think about it once, and then came
Speaker 2: back and I was like, oh, I guess that was
Speaker 2: the case. Like, he doesn't do a British accent here,
Speaker 2: does he? Does? He just you use his standard transit,
Speaker 2: the Atlantic accent.
Speaker 3: I didn't even think about it. Whatever he was doing
Speaker 3: did not catch my attention in terms of accents. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it just it just passed as normal.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's like something up since Vincent Price's like
Speaker 2: theatrical voice and essentially his actual voice, and you hearman interviews.
Speaker 2: I don't know it. It's so distinctly him. And it
Speaker 2: also is not like accent wise tied to a particular
Speaker 2: part of the United States. He just it feels right
Speaker 2: that he should be in this picture. And I never
Speaker 2: questioned it a single time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, somehow was just not thinking about accents at all.
Speaker 3: So I would say Vincent Price is great in this movie,
Speaker 3: but it is not a typical Vincent Price performance. You know,
Speaker 3: we love him when he does his his high theatrical
Speaker 3: style or when he embraces camp and that's not going
Speaker 3: on here. This is a I would say the closest
Speaker 3: thing we've seen to this is his performance in The
Speaker 3: Last Man on Earth. This is a serious and much
Speaker 3: more subdued style of Vincent Price.
Speaker 2: He is.
Speaker 3: He's not hamming it.
Speaker 2: Up, that's right. Prices Hopkins is a cold and dead
Speaker 2: eyed opportunist, and you know, we gather he's in no
Speaker 2: hurry to actually do most of the dirty work of
Speaker 2: interrogation and execution himself. But yeah, he does not oppose
Speaker 2: it on moral grounds at all. He has no moral grounds.
Speaker 2: He's a ruthless man of calculating exploitation and is in
Speaker 2: No Ways fun and in No Ways and then in
Speaker 2: in No Way Hammy. So if you're looking for like
Speaker 2: a really visually interesting I mean, I'll take that. It's
Speaker 2: a very visually interesting performance. Is a great performance. But
Speaker 2: if you're looking for sort of the you know, the
Speaker 2: high melodrama or high Hammy Vincent Price, that's not where
Speaker 2: you're gonna find here. You're gonna find something a lot
Speaker 2: more grounded and really scary.
Speaker 3: One another way I'll put it is Price kind of
Speaker 3: specialized in portraying villains that are still kind of lovable
Speaker 3: in an ironic way. Like so in Mass the Red Death,
Speaker 3: he's playing Prince Prospero, who's like trying to He's trying
Speaker 3: to be the most evil man alive. You know, I'm
Speaker 3: just like, I'm going to explore all types of evil.
Speaker 3: But even despite like his evil, he's just delicious. He's
Speaker 3: just lovable on screen. And it's part it's that hamminess
Speaker 3: and theatrical style. You can't help but love him. None
Speaker 3: of that going on here. Matthew Hopkins in this movie
Speaker 3: is a detestable, disgusting character, and Price does it very well,
Speaker 3: like he fits right in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely a Price apparently clashed with the young Reeves,
Speaker 2: the director on the production. Reeves reportedly, in like early
Speaker 2: goings and early pre production, really wanted Donald Pleasants for
Speaker 2: the role. And if you're familiar with the work of
Speaker 2: Donald Pleasants, you can, I mean, Pleasants had had a
Speaker 2: range of his own and certainly wasn't confined to just
Speaker 2: one type of character. But you know, the sort of
Speaker 2: take Donald Pleasants would have likely had here definitely old
Speaker 2: calculating and so forth, And so he pushed for that.
Speaker 2: The studio, on the other hand, pushed for Vincent Price
Speaker 2: and said, you know, you're getting Vincent Price, and so
Speaker 2: Reeves ends up pushing for you know this more like
Speaker 2: nuanced you know, less theatrical performance from Vincent Price, and
Speaker 2: this apparently led to some tension, at least at first.
Speaker 2: Also there was some other stuff that apparently happened, like
Speaker 2: there's a point where Reeves directed Price to fire a
Speaker 2: pistol from horseback, and it resulted in Price being thrown
Speaker 2: from the horse. So you know, that's not going to
Speaker 2: help your working relationship. But later on, Vincent Price apparently,
Speaker 2: you know, ultimately judged at one of his best performances
Speaker 2: and and you decided, yeah, that was the right direction
Speaker 2: to go in. I've also I've read different accounts of
Speaker 2: a supposed interaction that occurred between the two of them.
Speaker 2: There's a frequently cited this regular Zinger exchange when Vincent
Speaker 2: Price supposedly says young man, I've made eighty four films,
Speaker 2: what have you done? And Reeve's responds, I've made two
Speaker 2: good ones. And I've read accounts that make this seem
Speaker 2: like a really biting back and forth. But more reputable
Speaker 2: accounts seem to indicate that like Price laughed at this
Speaker 2: zinger and complied and maybe wasn't. I don't know, you
Speaker 2: know how this goes with behind the scenes dirt. Sometimes
Speaker 2: it's played up to be far more toxic than it was,
Speaker 2: And in the write up that I found from Will
Speaker 2: Hodgkinson and The Guardian, it sounds like it was a
Speaker 2: far less toxic than it somehow may sometimes made out
Speaker 2: to be. But I agree, absolutely evil character, not a
Speaker 2: lovable character. And it's fitting because again Matthew Hopkins was
Speaker 2: a real person and a central actor in the witchcraft
Speaker 2: craze of the English Civil War, responsible for at least
Speaker 2: something like two hundred and thirty and maybe many more
Speaker 2: deaths between the year sixteen forty four and sixteen forty seven.
Speaker 2: And his interrogation methods, the cruelty that he employed are
Speaker 2: on the whole what you see in the film. You know,
Speaker 2: the film can only go so far. And then also
Speaker 2: the film does a little bit of an invention. But
Speaker 2: for the most part, like this is this is very believable.
Speaker 3: From what I've read, I think Hopkins and Stern alone
Speaker 3: accounted for like the bulk of witchcraft executions in this period.
Speaker 3: There were other people persecuting alleged witches at this time,
Speaker 3: but Hopkins and Stern were real overachievers. They were they
Speaker 3: killed so many had very outsized impact in this domain.
Speaker 2: All right, So that's our central villain and we'll come
Speaker 2: back to Stern in just a second. Well, no, I'll
Speaker 2: go ahead and cover Stern since we're talking about it.
Speaker 2: So John Stern is played by Robert Russell. Robert Russell
Speaker 2: lived nineteen thirty six through two thousand and eight. And yeah,
Speaker 2: just on one level, like just an absolutely hateable Hinchman,
Speaker 2: but it's more nuanced than just like villain and Hinchman,
Speaker 2: like they are uneasy partners in this murder. Con exercise,
Speaker 2: and they do not love each other. There is a
Speaker 2: fair amount of animosity between the two of them, and
Speaker 2: clearly Hopkins Hopkins has no love for this guy, no
Speaker 2: loyalty to him, and it kind of goes both ways.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they have slightly different styles. It's true that they're
Speaker 3: not loyal to each other at all. They kind of
Speaker 3: need each other to keep this thing going. That's clearly
Speaker 3: what they're mainly concerned with is just keeping this thing rolling. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but they're portrayed is different. They're both sadists and they're
Speaker 3: both evil, but Stern comes off as a hot blooded,
Speaker 3: kind of lustful, chaotic evil, whereas Hopkins comes off as
Speaker 3: cold blooded, kind of lawful evil or neutral evil. Hopkins
Speaker 3: likes to project an air of civility and gentility in public,
Speaker 3: so like there will be these conflicts between them where
Speaker 3: Hopkins does not publicly endorse torture, you know, he's like, oh,
Speaker 3: we don't do that, but then privately he's fine with it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, or we're fine with things that are maybe
Speaker 2: not legally like legally torture under the laws at the time,
Speaker 2: Like for instance, I think historically in England, at least
Speaker 2: you weren't going to find like thumbscrews used in these interrogations,
Speaker 2: but all other sorts. There were a number of other
Speaker 2: things that were allowed because they were like, oh, you're
Speaker 2: testing you know this, or that. We'll get into the
Speaker 2: techniques that are explored in the film later on.
Speaker 3: I mean it reminds me, though sadly, of things in
Speaker 3: much more recent history where it's like, oh, we don't
Speaker 3: do torture, I mean we will do water boarding or
Speaker 3: these other things that are obviously torture. Is just making
Speaker 3: these stupid distinctions, like we don't call that torture for
Speaker 3: some reason.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or sleep deprivation, which is something you see in
Speaker 2: that category today and was absolutely one of the or
Speaker 2: at least allegedly was one of the tactics that that
Speaker 2: they used that these two gentlemen used. A gentleman he
Speaker 2: used lightly, but these two men used in their crimes.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So, But anyway, detestable character John Stern, but also very
Speaker 2: well played by Robert Russell, who live thirty six through
Speaker 2: two thousand and eight. His other credits include Sitting Target
Speaker 2: from seventy two, and he was on episodes of both
Speaker 2: Blake seven and Doctor Who. I also should note I
Speaker 2: was looking at this this actor and it's like, oh man,
Speaker 2: he's six' three at least he's built as, such And
Speaker 2: Vincent price is taller than, him towering over him in
Speaker 2: these SCENES i had to look AT i had to
Speaker 2: be reminded That Vincent price was six.' four so a towering. Duo.
Speaker 3: HERE interesting i did Not clock russell as.
Speaker 2: Especially, TALL yeah i mean he's a he's a kind
Speaker 2: of a it's got like a, wrestler's physique, you know
Speaker 2: kind of like he's, he's tall but also, you know
Speaker 2: like broad in a very. Intimidating, way yeah he's more
Speaker 2: also a physical Scrapper. Than hopkins's, Yeah movie hopkins likes
Speaker 2: to stand back and order other people to do the,
Speaker 2: dirty Work but stern likes to get in there with his. Own.
Speaker 2: Hands yeah, all right let's talk a little bit about
Speaker 2: the good, guys here the good guys and, the victims because,
Speaker 2: let's see first, of all We Have ian Ogilvie Playing.
Speaker 2: Richard marshall this Is our commonwealth soldier and ultimately our
Speaker 2: key revenger active in. The picture ogilvie was born nineteen
Speaker 2: forty three and as of this recording is Still around
Speaker 2: british actor WHO'S been i think he's. Still active has
Speaker 2: been active since fifty eight and he appeared in all
Speaker 2: Three of reeves's, Feature Films So, she Beasts, the sorcerers
Speaker 2: And Witch. Finder general he's worked a lot over the
Speaker 2: eight decades he's. Been active his later credits Included Seventies,
Speaker 2: wuthering heights the Seventy four amicus horror Anthology from Beyond,
Speaker 2: the grave seventy four Is The, gathering storm seventy SIX Is,
Speaker 2: i claudius and Let's see old nineteen ninety two's death
Speaker 2: becomes her And puppet.
Speaker 3: Master, five Oh puppet. Master five there. You go, that's
Speaker 3: why that's where.
Speaker 2: It, culminates, yeah yeah but solid lead. Performance HERE and
Speaker 2: i should also point out my wife watched this one,
Speaker 2: with me and she pointed out that She, thought ogilvy
Speaker 2: or at least the person that we see Riding, as
Speaker 2: ogilvy is a. Good horseman and the Same With. Vincent
Speaker 2: Price vincent price or whoever was standing in for him
Speaker 2: on horseback was a pretty.
Speaker 3: Good, rider yeah horseback action is important in.
Speaker 2: This, movie yeah there's a lot. Of, it again it's
Speaker 2: Like a western in.
Speaker 3: That, regard yeah now this is a movie that really
Speaker 3: is more about its villains than about. Its HEROES but
Speaker 3: i like our. HEROES here i Like The ian Oglevie,
Speaker 3: as RICHARD and I Like hillary Dwyer. As sarah like
Speaker 3: they've got, a nice, wholesome energy and we're going to
Speaker 3: see their lives destroyed by these horrible.
Speaker 2: Witch.
Speaker 3: Hunters.
Speaker 2: Yeah Yeah hillary dwyer as she's credited later On Became,
Speaker 2: hillary heath and that's how you'll find her listed in.
Speaker 2: The databases but she lived nineteen forty five through. Twenty
Speaker 2: twenty british actress active in front of the camera from
Speaker 2: sixty five through, seventy six during which she Appeared Alongside
Speaker 2: timothy dalton in Nineteen Seventies. Worthering, heights, this However witch
Speaker 2: finder was her first feature. Film role she also appeared
Speaker 2: in Sixty Nine's The oblong box in Nineteen seventies cry Of.
Speaker 2: The bansheet she later Won A Cable ace award for
Speaker 2: the nineteen eighty Eight Series The, worst witch on which
Speaker 2: she served as, a producer and she was active as
Speaker 2: a producer from eighty three through. Twenty fourteen mother of
Speaker 2: composer and Record Producer, daniel heath who has frequently Worked
Speaker 2: with Lena, del ray who we actually mentioned In Our
Speaker 2: dog Days of summer series that We're doing unstuffed to blow.
Speaker 2: YOUR mind i think just the.
Speaker 3: Other, episode, yeah okay we got some other. Good characters
Speaker 3: we have The character, sarah's uncle, the priest Played Named,
Speaker 3: john lowe is Played By.
Speaker 2: Rupert davies, That's right davies, livelet's say nineteen sixteen through nineteen,
Speaker 2: Seventy six british character actor whose other credits include fifty
Speaker 2: Five's quator, mass two Sixty Five's the Spy Who came
Speaker 2: in From, the cold Sixty eight's dracula has risen from
Speaker 2: the grave or is it? HIS grave i can't remember
Speaker 2: the man of the title wrong in my notes here.
Speaker 3: Sixty eight from somebody. Else's grave he.
Speaker 2: Rises from, a grave, that is he's certainly authorized to.
Speaker 2: Be there i'm Not. Questioning Dracula non and then also
Speaker 2: sixty Nine's The. Oblong box. Let's, see oh we have
Speaker 2: some other other soldier characters in, the mix And So
Speaker 2: ian Ogleby's Character, richard marshall his kind of like best
Speaker 2: bud in, the Ranks Is, trooper swallow and he's Played By,
Speaker 2: nicki hinson who of nineteen forty five through Twenty nineteen
Speaker 2: british actor with a long Career in british FILM. And
Speaker 2: tv his Credits. And cluelessee he was in two thousand And.
Speaker 2: Five syriana he was in three Episodes Of downton abbey
Speaker 2: as well as episodes Of. East enders but we previously
Speaker 2: talked about him on the show because he played the
Speaker 2: lead biker in nineteen Seventy. Three psychomania.
Speaker 3: AMAZING catch i didn't notice this, at ALL though i
Speaker 3: did notice his soldier friend.
Speaker 2: Looked, familiar YES when i that Guy, FROM yeah i
Speaker 2: didn't make the CONNECTION till i was putting the. Notes together,
Speaker 2: i'm like oh, my god it's the Guy. From psychomania
Speaker 2: he's the Biker. Lich king and an even crazier weird
Speaker 2: connection for, us anyway IS that i started pulling up
Speaker 2: images of Him from PSYCHOMANIA and i realized there's this
Speaker 2: redheaded biker Dude in psychomania played by, This Actor. Dennis
Speaker 2: gilmour and he also played one of the coven Members
Speaker 2: In the Blood On. Satan's claw so.
Speaker 3: He's the redheaded kid who He tells Fibbs In. Sunday
Speaker 3: school and then you start with that and then it
Speaker 3: ends up.
Speaker 2: With. Murder, Yeah yeah so a lot of connections Between
Speaker 2: these british genre films at, this point at, this period this.
Speaker 2: Next one i'm only mentioning because sometimes you just got
Speaker 2: to mention a unique name in. The cast i'm talking About,
Speaker 2: alf joint who lived nineteen twenty seven through two thousand.
Speaker 2: And five he plays a century. In this he was
Speaker 2: primarily a stunt man who worked on such films as Eighty,
Speaker 2: one's outland Eighty Five's, life force and he pops up,
Speaker 2: in small, you know little background roles and stuff like
Speaker 2: Sixty four's goldfinger in nineteen seventy One's A. CLOCKWORK orange.
Speaker 3: I didn't clock Who alf.
Speaker 2: JOINT was i kept seeing the name and, the Credits and, i'm, like,
Speaker 2: oh man alf, joined nice, all.
Speaker 3: Right that's a good name. To have when you're like
Speaker 3: a list of, you know casting resumes in, The pile,
Speaker 3: it's like we got to Give alf joint, to collback Contact.
Speaker 2: ALF joint i Want alf joint. For this And What's
Speaker 2: dick warlock? Up TO can I? Get? Warlock yeah let's
Speaker 2: see a girl. At bar this is just one of the,
Speaker 2: supporting characters just hanging Out with stern and his goons
Speaker 2: at one point Played By, margaret nolan who lived nineteen
Speaker 2: forty three through Twenty twenty english model, and actress notable
Speaker 2: for playing the Massage therapist bank in nineteen Sixty. Four's
Speaker 2: goldfinger so not the one who gets painted gold, to
Speaker 2: death that Was, surely eden but the Other.
Speaker 3: One, OKAY yeah i don't remember who.
Speaker 2: She, WAS anyway a small, CONNECTION there i had to.
Speaker 2: Point out and then we were talking about this, Actor Earlier,
Speaker 2: patrick wymark So veteran british actor of nineteen twenty six
Speaker 2: through nineteen seventy who played the Judge In the Blood On,
Speaker 2: satan's claw the guy with the sword we were. Talking
Speaker 2: about He plays cromwell In this cromwell pops up for
Speaker 2: like one scene laid in, the Picture And patrick wymark
Speaker 2: is playing.
Speaker 3: IT now i thought it was an interesting choice To
Speaker 3: put cromwell actually in. The, movie ultimately he's the general
Speaker 3: Who the parliamentarians are fighting under at this point in
Speaker 3: the historically In The English, civil war so he's historically
Speaker 3: significant for, the setting but actually having him appear in
Speaker 3: person for a scene was an, interesting choice ESPECIALLY because
Speaker 3: i don't know if you felt any differently the movie,
Speaker 3: to me did not really seem interested In characterizing cromwell
Speaker 3: one way or. The, other like he does not come
Speaker 3: off as especially noble, or heroic nor does he really
Speaker 3: come off. As villainous he's just kind of he's. About
Speaker 3: business he's trying to win.
Speaker 2: The, war yeah that was the same VIBE that. I got,
Speaker 2: AND yeah i. WAS curious i, WAS like i knew
Speaker 2: he was going to. SHOW up i Knew That patrick
Speaker 2: weimark was going To play cromwell in this and then
Speaker 2: when he does, Show, up yeah he's like, you said,
Speaker 2: he said He's, Business cromwell he's just he's just he's
Speaker 2: focused on. Other things and all of the real villainous
Speaker 2: energy of the film is taking place just kind of in,
Speaker 2: you know far beneath him in. The, ranks yes you,
Speaker 2: could say, you know he has no really direct role
Speaker 2: in it one way or.
Speaker 3: The other he has not authorized The witch hunters in,
Speaker 3: the movie though again they're gonna they're gonna be claiming
Speaker 3: that their authority Comes. From parliament in reality it.
Speaker 2: Does, not yeah so it's a. Small scene whymark's they
Speaker 2: give him the signature Moles. OF cromwell, I noticed so
Speaker 2: there's some special effects makeup to. Transform him, but yeah
Speaker 2: he's really good and he's Great in Blood On. Satan's
Speaker 2: claw he was. An actor he was an actor Of The,
Speaker 2: british STAGE with tv credits going back to the. Mid
Speaker 2: fifties FIRST non tv film was Nineteen Sixty the League,
Speaker 2: of gentlemen as Well As The Concrete Jungle let's see
Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty three at his supporting Role In Disney's
Speaker 2: doctor sin alias Alias. The scarecrow sorry this Was a patrick,
Speaker 2: McGowan Film And. Let's see he also had a supporting
Speaker 2: role in sixty Four as children Of. The damned he
Speaker 2: played the Landlord In Roman polanski's repulsion in, sixty five
Speaker 2: and also appeared the same Year Alongside peter Cushing And
Speaker 2: christopher Lee In the skull that was Directed By, freddie
Speaker 2: francis and then he Starred In freddy francis's nineteen Sixty
Speaker 2: six Amicus Thriller. The psychopath some might also might remember
Speaker 2: him From The The Rather deep Cast For Where eagles
Speaker 2: dare from, sixty eight the Wartime thriller you never seen.
Speaker 2: That one. It's good THAT'S one i remember watching as
Speaker 2: a kid who CAME on tbs all. The, time yea, but,
Speaker 2: yeah yeah. Great actor i'd love to see him in.
Speaker 2: More things Blood On satan's claw was his, penultimate film by.
Speaker 2: The way he just did one other film after that
Speaker 2: and then.
Speaker 3: Passed away wait did you say he's in? ANOTHER movie
Speaker 3: i see in the notes he was in another Movie About,
Speaker 3: oliver cromwell but he did Not Play. Oliver cromwell.
Speaker 2: That's, right yeah he has a supporting role in the
Speaker 2: really stacked Cast To ken hughes nineteen seventy Historical, attic
Speaker 2: Cromwell which i've seen that ages and. AGES ago, i think,
Speaker 2: you KNOW when i was maybe like junior high. Or
Speaker 2: Younger But richard Harris plays cromwell. IN that i don't
Speaker 2: remember if they put the Moles On richard harris's face, for,
Speaker 2: THAT though i. Don't know they're more accurate.
Speaker 3: This, picture now one element of this MOVIE that i
Speaker 3: think is very strong is. The score and actually there
Speaker 3: FROM what, i recall there's kind of sparing use, Of
Speaker 3: music like a lot of scenes are just silent, environmental
Speaker 3: sounds but when the music, COMES in i think, it's
Speaker 3: strong kind of rousing, music THAT like, i said has
Speaker 3: some elements Of like western and other elements Of like english. Folk, tunes,
Speaker 3: yeah yeah it's a.
Speaker 2: Solid score and the composer Here Is, paul ferris who
Speaker 2: of nineteen forty one through nineteen. Ninety five his other
Speaker 2: Scores Include the sorcerers and also Sixty Eight's The Blood,
Speaker 2: beast terror as well as seventy Three Is The. Creeping
Speaker 2: flesh That's A lee cushing outing that had some cool elements,
Speaker 2: to it but also wallows and, some unpleasantness so it's not.
Speaker 2: My Favorite but ferris also has a cameo in. THIS
Speaker 2: film i did not notice, it myself but he does
Speaker 2: show up at some point under the Name Of morris
Speaker 2: jar playing a Character. Named, paul.
Speaker 3: Okay are you ready to talk about?
Speaker 2: The plot let's. Do.
Speaker 3: It okay i'm not going to do as close a
Speaker 3: scene by scene narration with this MOVIE as i do
Speaker 3: for some of. The movies i'm going to talk in
Speaker 3: a little more of a, summary way and maybe we
Speaker 3: can make some observations about the themes and stylistic choices as.
Speaker 3: We go but, so again the movie is Set In
Speaker 3: east anglia in sixteen. Forty five this is going to
Speaker 3: be at the height Of The English, civil war and
Speaker 3: in this war you have the supporters of, the monarchy
Speaker 3: the royalists called cavaliers by. Their enemies and then on
Speaker 3: the other side you have the parliamentarians called roundheads by.
Speaker 3: Their enemies and our main good characters are a young
Speaker 3: couple who are very much in love from a Place
Speaker 3: called Brandiston. And suffolk and these are these Characters Are,
Speaker 3: sarah lowe's the niece of the kindly Village Priest, john
Speaker 3: Lowe's And, richard marshall a MAN who i think does
Speaker 3: not come. From money he's a young roundhead soldier who
Speaker 3: has been serving in the, parliamentarian army but he's coming
Speaker 3: home for a brief leave to see His. Beloved sarah
Speaker 3: and then meanwhile you've got our, primary villains and They
Speaker 3: Are matthew Hopkins And, john stern two men who travel
Speaker 3: from village to village amidst the chaos, of war hunting
Speaker 3: alleged witches under fake, parliamentary credentials charging fees and accommodations from,
Speaker 3: local leaders and satisfying their sadism and their perverted desires as.
Speaker 3: They go and to give himself the impromoter, Of government
Speaker 3: hopkins styles himself The Witch. Finder general so their reputation
Speaker 3: precedes them and as you, Noted, earlier rob they are
Speaker 3: often summoned by, local leaders not just arriving out. OF
Speaker 3: nowhere i think there is a nasty synergy going on
Speaker 3: because they have found a they have found a grift
Speaker 3: that is. In, DEMAND actually i think there's a lot
Speaker 3: of fear, and confusion and they have found a way
Speaker 3: to take advantage of that fear and confusion in a
Speaker 3: way that. Excites people, they're, like yeah maybe these witch
Speaker 3: hunters can come set our, lives right can come.
Speaker 2: Bring, order yeah because every town is going to have
Speaker 2: it's beset by chaos. And confusion they're going to be
Speaker 2: marginalized members of. The community there are going to be
Speaker 2: these these vendettas. And attitudes there are going to be
Speaker 2: local people that are themselves bloodthirsty and just need that
Speaker 2: excuse in order to act. Upon it and that's where
Speaker 2: these guys. Come.
Speaker 3: In yeah so when these guys arrive at, a village
Speaker 3: their imo seems to be that they will target either
Speaker 3: locals who are despised for some reason, by somebody and
Speaker 3: this can be like outcasts or, religious dissenters or minority
Speaker 3: or any kind Of, OTHER also, i, think yeah people
Speaker 3: who the local leaders are already mad at for, some
Speaker 3: reason or it also seems just. Random women so there's
Speaker 3: a lot of just ambient misogyny at play in how they're.
Speaker 3: Targeting people once they apprehend, their suspects they basically assume
Speaker 3: guilt until innocence, is proven which and it, never is
Speaker 3: except maybe in. Some cases as a reward for submitting
Speaker 3: to financial or, sexual extortion they demand that the. Guilty
Speaker 3: confess they subject their victims to various tests to detect evidence,
Speaker 3: of witchcraft and these tests include what they call pricking
Speaker 3: to find the. Devil's mark so they will stab the
Speaker 3: victim with a needle or like a, thin blade reasoning
Speaker 3: that they say the devil gives his servants a patch
Speaker 3: of skin that is supernaturally protected and does not bleed,
Speaker 3: when pierced so when they keep they'll be piercing people on,
Speaker 3: the back and they just keep, piercing them and when
Speaker 3: all the, wounds bleed, They, say wow the devil is
Speaker 3: hidden his mark. Very well we'll have to search. Even
Speaker 3: harder another test is the, swimming test where the victim is,
Speaker 3: tied up their hands and feet, are bound and then
Speaker 3: they are thrown or lowered into water and the, reasoning
Speaker 3: goes if they sink to, the bottom That was god
Speaker 3: showing them to. Be innocent if they float, or swim
Speaker 3: this is the water rejecting them and proof that they. Are,
Speaker 3: guilty now this is. So stupid it has been parodied a.
Speaker 3: Million times you've probably seen versions.
Speaker 2: Of This In mony python And The holy, grid Exactly The.
Speaker 3: Monty python but the crazy thing is tests like these
Speaker 3: were really used in a lot of historical, witch trials
Speaker 3: including by The historical Hopkins. And stern sinking in this
Speaker 3: test the innocence condition sometimes led to death by drowning
Speaker 3: if the accused was not pulled up out of the water.
Speaker 3: Soon enough and that outcome is depicted in.
Speaker 2: This, movie yeah and this movie plays it straight and
Speaker 2: it's it's. It's, Horrifying yeah so it DOES nicely i
Speaker 2: think counterbalance the scenes depicting the sort of thing that
Speaker 2: you find in, other Movies including Blood On, satan's clock
Speaker 2: where it's it's, employed there but it's kind of employed
Speaker 2: as like the one main comedic scene in the. Entire.
Speaker 3: Picture yeah and when you say it's played straight in,
Speaker 3: THE movie i would say that a lot of the
Speaker 3: violence in the movie is made more horrifying by the
Speaker 3: way that. It is it is treated very flatly by
Speaker 3: the camera and by like it's often without cinematic flourishes
Speaker 3: that might accompany violence in. Other movies that actually makes
Speaker 3: it feel even more just kind of ugly and sad.
Speaker 3: And bad the way that it's just matter of, fact
Speaker 3: photography and also the way the actors play it is
Speaker 3: just KIND of i, don't Know like i'm half heartedly
Speaker 3: doing this thing that's maybe killing. A, person, yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 3: yeah also so in, The movie Hopkins and stern appear
Speaker 3: to have a slightly nuanced relationship to the idea of
Speaker 3: just direct beating and torture to. Extract confessions stern. Loves
Speaker 3: it he does it. For fun he loves beating people.
Speaker 3: And torturing hopkins like formally publicly, condemns TORTURE and i
Speaker 3: think in some scenes Even to stern, says like, YOU
Speaker 3: know i, Don't torture we don't. Do that but also
Speaker 3: he's fully Aware that stern, does it and he doesn't
Speaker 3: make a serious attempt to, stop him and other times
Speaker 3: is fully encouraging.
Speaker 2: Of.
Speaker 3: It yeah so it's just like there is a hypocrisy
Speaker 3: in the Way that hopkins presents himself to have this
Speaker 3: public facing air.
Speaker 2: Of.
Speaker 3: Civility yeah so eventually their Method goes after all these
Speaker 3: tests and all, The torture Hopkins in stern inevitably, determined
Speaker 3: yes all of the accused are either guilty or they've
Speaker 3: been killed by the tests that proved. Their innocence now
Speaker 3: it's time to. Execute them and initially in the movie
Speaker 3: this is done, by hanging but later on in, The
Speaker 3: film hopkins seems to be searching about for execution methods
Speaker 3: that are even more cruel. And barbarous it's like the
Speaker 3: hangings no longer give him the kick that. He craves
Speaker 3: he needs something. More extreme so later in the film
Speaker 3: we get him experimenting with these horrific mechanisms for execution.
Speaker 2: By. Burning YEAH and i think historically and, in general
Speaker 2: accused whiches were not Burned. In england they, were hung
Speaker 2: which is plenty disturbing in and. Of itself and while
Speaker 2: judicial torture was, illegal again things like thumbscrews or the
Speaker 2: rack or whatever you happen to have to come to.
Speaker 2: Mind here even though there were methods that were, certainly
Speaker 2: illegal witch finders had loopholes like those depicted in the
Speaker 2: film like we've been talking about things that seem more, Vested, in, like,
Speaker 2: oh well this is, An experimentation like this is how
Speaker 2: you tell if they're. A witch we're, not actually, you know.
Speaker 2: Torturing somebody but it's of course. It's, torture.
Speaker 3: YEAH exactly I, mean hopkins the Real historical hopkins wrote
Speaker 3: a Book Called the Discovery of witches in which he
Speaker 3: detailed these methods for figuring out how whether or not
Speaker 3: somebody was. A witch, and, so yeah they're stabbing stuff while.
Speaker 3: Obviously torture he, was, like no that's, not torture, that's
Speaker 3: investigation that's getting the information.
Speaker 2: We.
Speaker 3: Need yeah so at the beginning of, the story we
Speaker 3: Meet Young richard marshall out riding with a Group of
Speaker 3: roundhead soldiers under the command of a Man Named, captain
Speaker 3: gordon and while they stop for arrest in, the forest
Speaker 3: they are ambushed by, cavalier snipers and this leads to
Speaker 3: a skirmish Where the roundheads chase the enemy into the
Speaker 3: woods and. Defeat them and then at the end of,
Speaker 3: this Fight young richard proves his capability by shooting a
Speaker 3: cavalier who was sneaking up behind. His captain so here
Speaker 3: are we kind Of like richard seems to be coming
Speaker 3: up in. The ranks he's being recognized for his for
Speaker 3: his bravery and daring do.
Speaker 2: In.
Speaker 3: Battle uh and, After this richard is given leave to
Speaker 3: ride back to his Hometown, of Brandiston Where, sarah lows
Speaker 3: the woman, he loves is waiting. For him sarah lives with,
Speaker 3: her uncle the, Village Priest, john lowe's and you can
Speaker 3: Tell that richard really is in Love with sarah because
Speaker 3: he's talking about her all the time to his army
Speaker 3: buddies when, he's away despite them totally mocking him. For
Speaker 3: it it's very much like you like. A girl, i mean,
Speaker 3: not really.
Speaker 2: But there's there's. A, bit, yeah yeah like he's he's he's. Clearly.
Speaker 3: Smitten Yeah so Richard and sarah when he, gets back
Speaker 3: they have a passionate Reunion and Richard Asks uncle john
Speaker 3: for his permission To. Marry sarah john not only grants,
Speaker 3: the permission he wants it to. Happen fast what he
Speaker 3: wants Is for Richard and sarah to marry and leave the,
Speaker 3: village Immediately because john has a sense that danger. IS
Speaker 3: imminent i don't know exactly what. He worries it's from
Speaker 3: whether from the war or from the witch hunters. Or
Speaker 3: both but he Thinks that sarah needs to be away
Speaker 3: from Here, AND john i think in this part he
Speaker 3: mentions that He and sarah are hated by some of
Speaker 3: the villagers who call them papists and accuse them of
Speaker 3: sympathy With the. King's forces and this is. Parliamentary territory
Speaker 3: so before they, Can marry richard has to return to
Speaker 3: the army and. Finish, serving now this is somewhat portrayed
Speaker 3: as kind of up, to him like he, has to,
Speaker 3: you know he, has ambitions and he doesn't have much
Speaker 3: money or anything that he can bring to, their union
Speaker 3: but maybe he has chances for advancement in. The army
Speaker 3: though also they make clear that in this world desertion
Speaker 3: is punishable, by, yeah YEAH so i think he sort
Speaker 3: of has to. Go back but on the Night that
Speaker 3: richard leaves the village, on horseback he crosses paths with
Speaker 3: a group of men who are waiting to meet to
Speaker 3: meet some people who are on, the road and then
Speaker 3: eventually he crosses paths with the two men that those
Speaker 3: guys are, waiting for the, witch Hunters with Stern. And
Speaker 3: hopkins they ask him for directions to, the village and
Speaker 3: he supplies them unaware of what is about. To happen
Speaker 3: and so this is the first scene where we get
Speaker 3: a Picture of Stern and hopkins and. THEIR relationship i
Speaker 3: don't know any thoughts you have about their relationship when
Speaker 3: we first. Meet them one just THING that i noticed
Speaker 3: immediately is they're not. Buddy buddy they're somewhat hostile to,
Speaker 3: each other but they need each other to keep this,
Speaker 3: thing going so they tolerate.
Speaker 2: Each. Other yeah it reminds me a little bit of
Speaker 2: the dynamic in The book dune With the baron And
Speaker 2: His twisted men tat Pyder, to vere's where where you
Speaker 2: know that they they are, not friends they hate, each
Speaker 2: other but need, each other and there's a there's always
Speaker 2: a sense of danger there and we see that play
Speaker 2: that that certainly plays out in. This. Film.
Speaker 3: Yeah uh and and they have their differences. In temperament
Speaker 3: as we. Discussed earlier stern is more, openly vicious this
Speaker 3: wolf like kind, of Figure whereas hopkins is just, as
Speaker 3: cruel just, as evil but hides it behind this veneer
Speaker 3: of dignity. And respectability and like there's this moment where
Speaker 3: He admonishes stern not to call him by his. First,
Speaker 3: name yeah you don't Call. Me matthew So when Hopkins
Speaker 3: and stern Arrive, in brandiston they set about their. Horrible
Speaker 3: work They Target john lowe's. Among others they go to,
Speaker 3: his home they subject him to bloody prickings like we,
Speaker 3: described earlier and to other bizarre tests like making him
Speaker 3: run laps around his dining room table after having been
Speaker 3: stabbed all, these times and they. Demand, Confession eventually sarah
Speaker 3: is able to save her uncle from immediate death by
Speaker 3: submitting to, sexual Extortion so hopkins says he'll come to
Speaker 3: her room at night to be shown special evidence that
Speaker 3: will assure Him of. John's innocence so because, of this
Speaker 3: instead Of sending john straight through the torture and, Execution
Speaker 3: process Hopkins orders john confined to a cell and. Left,
Speaker 3: Alone meanwhile stern just acts out his sadistic process on
Speaker 3: the other, suspected witches and then every night he drinks
Speaker 3: and carouses in. The tavern So eventually stern becomes aware
Speaker 3: Of what hopkins is Doing, to sarah And when hopkins
Speaker 3: leaves one day to visit a, Nearby village stern attacks And.
Speaker 3: Rapes Sarah after hopkins returns and finds out. What happened
Speaker 3: he seems to just kind of decide he's done with,
Speaker 3: this place so He betrays sarah and then has her
Speaker 3: uncle tortured and executed along with the, other women And
Speaker 3: then Hopkins and stern.
Speaker 2: Leave, town yeah.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Brutal yeah and it's in, this section by, the
Speaker 3: way that we get like the depiction of the, swimming test,
Speaker 3: you know or they're like throwing the people into the
Speaker 3: water with the ropes. Around them So eventually, richard returns
Speaker 3: only To discover. Sarah traumatized he learns, what happened and
Speaker 3: he swears revenge Against both Hopkins. And stern and then,
Speaker 3: After this Sarah and richard are married in secret in
Speaker 3: a chapel that is desecrated with graffiti it says witch on,
Speaker 3: the walls with no priest or. Efficient present it seems
Speaker 3: like a kind of thematically, significant moment like the wedding
Speaker 3: that they have is on no one's authority but. Their
Speaker 3: Own like richard just holds a sword up in the
Speaker 3: air like this is.
Speaker 2: My, Priest, yeah YEAH because i mean that seems to
Speaker 2: be how things work now in. The world everything's torn
Speaker 2: apart by this war, and yeah this is how the
Speaker 2: witch are. Are operating THIS is i guess how weddings
Speaker 2: are going to. Work too you just you just.
Speaker 3: Do, It Yeah so sarah goes to the nearby Village
Speaker 3: of lavianum to Hide until richard can finish his mission
Speaker 3: mission of REVENGE and i guess also his work with
Speaker 3: the army and then come back. To her so she's
Speaker 3: going into. Hiding nearby so This. Is richard he's on the. Revenge, rails, now, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah this is the point where it definitely becomes clear
Speaker 2: that this is a. Revenge movie and, In general i'd
Speaker 2: say that revenge movies are often my one of my least,
Speaker 2: favorite subgenres in part because of the like the the,
Speaker 2: structure is it's very much on. The rails you generally
Speaker 2: know how revenge film is going. To go and it's
Speaker 2: also it's going to be, pretty dark like it's either
Speaker 2: gonna even if it has a, happy ending that ending
Speaker 2: is just murders and in a lot of cases it's
Speaker 2: going to be a more realistic dig two graves sort
Speaker 2: of a situation, where vengeance murderous vengeance is is, pulled
Speaker 2: off but like nothing's really everyone's. Just dirty by. The
Speaker 2: exercise but that, BEING said i have to acknowledge that
Speaker 2: it is a solid structure for. A film those are
Speaker 2: some solid storytelling rails to, be on and the movie
Speaker 2: does really pick up its pace when it becomes clear
Speaker 2: that it's fully a. Revenge film and there's also that, incentive,
Speaker 2: that oh this is a, revenge film we Might see
Speaker 2: Hopkins and stern actually get.
Speaker 3: Their, comeuppance yeah which is not feel good in the
Speaker 3: end of, the movie but is somewhat satisfying just because
Speaker 3: of how disgusting and awful the. Villains, ARE unfortunately i
Speaker 3: think there was not any such justice in the real.
Speaker 3: HISTORICAL case I think hopkins just died.
Speaker 2: At, HOME yeah i think it's suspected that he died
Speaker 2: of tuberculosis or something, like that as opposed to any
Speaker 2: sort of more fitting. Come uppance and certainly they are
Speaker 2: legends that. Suggest that but, you know it's the way of.
Speaker 2: The world sometimes the villains do not get what's coming,
Speaker 2: to them but in.
Speaker 3: The movie they, they will even though it's not exactly a.
Speaker 3: Happy ending so all through the middle of, THE movie
Speaker 3: i wanted to, point out did you notice this recurring
Speaker 3: theme of the roundheads needing horses they're just like very
Speaker 3: like we need we need to get, more horses we
Speaker 3: need to protect. Our horses they're just like very. Into.
Speaker 3: Horses uh and at one point this becomes significant for
Speaker 3: the plot because a Troop of roundhead Soldiers stop Hopkins
Speaker 3: and stern on their way to the. Next village, they,
Speaker 3: say hey we. Need horses we're gonna buy. Your horses
Speaker 3: hopkins tries, to say we're, not selling but the, soldier
Speaker 3: says you. Are selling and this scene felt very much
Speaker 3: to me like something out Of, a western these classic western.
Speaker 3: Standoff movies and this leads into a fight and both
Speaker 3: where Sterns and Stern and hopkins. Become Separated so hopkins
Speaker 3: bolts on horseback and he. Gets away stern is, initially
Speaker 3: caught but then manages to kill his captor and he escapes.
Speaker 3: As well and then in a, LOCAL pub i Think
Speaker 3: somehow richard happens to cross Paths, with, stern right he
Speaker 3: just comes into the pub and, he's There and richard
Speaker 3: tries to, kill Him but stern they Fight and stern,
Speaker 3: escapes again so eventually he reunites Uneasily with hopkins and
Speaker 3: tells him that this soldier is looking. For them so
Speaker 3: they Know That riches richard is coming. For. Revenge.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah initially, it's like You think stern is maybe
Speaker 2: there To kill hopkins for, abandoning him and certainly accuses him,
Speaker 2: of Such and hopkins pulls a gun, on Him but
Speaker 2: hopkins is able to convince him, it's like, come on
Speaker 2: let's get back. To, business, then yeah that's what.
Speaker 3: They do so they move on to the, next village
Speaker 3: which is uh Oh lavin um that they they're going
Speaker 3: there and we remember way the audience remembered That's where
Speaker 3: sarah went to, hide Out and hopkins decides he wants
Speaker 3: to experiment with new, execution methods so this is where
Speaker 3: he comes up with this horrible contraption where they're going
Speaker 3: to use a ladder and ropes to lower victims face
Speaker 3: first into a. Giant, fire meanwhile there's some army business
Speaker 3: in the middle of. The movie richard has to report
Speaker 3: back to, his unit and while, doing so he gets,
Speaker 3: a promotion and then he is tasked by none Other
Speaker 3: than cromwell himself with leading a scouting PARTY to i
Speaker 3: think find and Capture the king is the idea that
Speaker 3: the king is trying to escape the country in secret
Speaker 3: and they think he might be in one of the towns.
Speaker 2: Around, there yeah so they need to try and intercept
Speaker 2: him and apprehend him and bring. Him. Back.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah anyway while out on, This mission richard and
Speaker 3: his trooper friends find out that the witch hunters Are,
Speaker 3: in Lavenum where sarah went to, hide out so they go,
Speaker 3: in pursuit but it turns Out that Hopkins and stern
Speaker 3: have set a trap, for them And when, Richard arrives
Speaker 3: hopkins has a local man Accused both Richard and sarah of.
Speaker 3: Being witches what does? He say, he's, LIKE yes i
Speaker 3: saw them with. Their familiars and so they're taken away
Speaker 3: to a dungeon in a nearby castle to be tortured
Speaker 3: and interrogated via the methods we. Saw earlier so while they're,
Speaker 3: being tormented they're getting the pricks with the knife in
Speaker 3: The back sarah Is while richard is being forced. To,
Speaker 3: Watch meanwhile richard's men figure out where they are and
Speaker 3: they're on. The way they're on, the run coming to,
Speaker 3: the rescue and this leads to, a bloody violent conclusion
Speaker 3: In which sarah is subjected to these pricks of the
Speaker 3: blade on. Her back to Find The. Devil's mark richard
Speaker 3: eventually breaks free and He fights stern and kills him
Speaker 3: by stomping through. His eye it's like a boot spur
Speaker 3: that goes into his.
Speaker 2: EYE socket i, guess SO because i was like, AT
Speaker 2: first i, was like is that a heel that he
Speaker 2: killed him with? The heel, but yeah the spur makes
Speaker 2: a lot. More.
Speaker 3: Sense yeah And then richard picks up an axe And,
Speaker 3: attacks hopkins and we just it's just, on screen brutal
Speaker 3: hacking at him over and over with an axe that
Speaker 3: goes on and On until, richard's friends, the soldiers they
Speaker 3: finally fight their way through. The guards they break into
Speaker 3: the room and one of them shoots the Gruesomely. Wounded hopkins, this,
Speaker 3: shooting Though, enrages richard who starts screaming you took him
Speaker 3: from me over, and Over and sarah's screams of pain
Speaker 3: and trauma fill the air as we go to. The
Speaker 3: CREDITS so i, was, thinking man how bad is? This,
Speaker 3: ending like in, a, way there it is in some
Speaker 3: ways a victorious ending for our two, main characters because
Speaker 3: at least they actually do survive and the villains. Are
Speaker 3: punished both of the two villains these horrible villains, are
Speaker 3: killed but the two good characters both seem extremely psychologically
Speaker 3: damaged by the events of, the movie maybe both having
Speaker 3: been driven. To, madness yeah.
Speaker 2: And the film doesn't give us even just a, you.
Speaker 2: KNOW glot, I mean i don't think that the ending
Speaker 2: necessarily is trying to tell us that there's no hope
Speaker 2: for these two. Or anything but we're left to imagine
Speaker 2: that on. Our own we're not given a hint of
Speaker 2: what that might look like or and.
Speaker 3: So, forth yeah so it's ambiguous in. THAT regard i
Speaker 3: was thinking about the violence of the ending and the
Speaker 3: way that like the revenge, is achieved but also it
Speaker 3: at the same time somehow feels thwarted and it's not like,
Speaker 3: a happy, Satisfying ENDING and i was kind of pairing
Speaker 3: that with the thing we talked about earlier about how
Speaker 3: a lot of the violence in the movie is shot
Speaker 3: and presented in a, very undramatic. Uncinematic Way and i'm
Speaker 3: just trying to put all this together and it and
Speaker 3: figure out what the movie is trying to say about
Speaker 3: violence with all. THESE choices i kind of get that
Speaker 3: the point is to emphasize the pointlessness of the violence in,
Speaker 3: the movie that it's just something that's happening for no
Speaker 3: good reason. At all. Like that there there's, you know
Speaker 3: In what Stern and, hopkins do it's almost like by,
Speaker 3: you know putting in more music and photographing it in
Speaker 3: a more emotionally, charged way it might be kind of valorizing.
Speaker 2: It, somehow yeah or if they'd like really stylize the
Speaker 2: gore in a way where they were doing some sort of,
Speaker 2: you know unrealistic but maybe more horror movie cinematic torture,
Speaker 2: techniques instead like in, many scenes It's just stern like
Speaker 2: just slapping people around while they're, in chains and it's
Speaker 2: it's not even for like a real. GORE hound i
Speaker 2: don't think they're going to find. This visually they're not
Speaker 2: going to find it visually pleasing because it's just base
Speaker 2: in its depiction.
Speaker 3: Of, violence yeah there's another THING that i wanted to
Speaker 3: point OUT which i thought was, really interesting and that
Speaker 3: is the contrast between the contents of the story and
Speaker 3: the esthetics of. The Setting so i'd say this is
Speaker 3: very different Than Like corman's, poe movies where the setting
Speaker 3: and landscape is bleak and gloomy in a way that
Speaker 3: reflects the morbid, subject matter whereas here the horror of
Speaker 3: the plot and the wickedness unleashed by the villains is
Speaker 3: strongly contrasted by the beauty we see all. Around us
Speaker 3: there's all these shots of, this green beautiful countryside and these.
Speaker 3: IDYLLIC towns, i mean it's just like full of gorgeous
Speaker 3: locations that seem peaceful and serene and easy on. The
Speaker 3: EYE and i think this is an interesting and. Significant
Speaker 3: choice it's a movie, about, sadism, misogyny cruelty, and revenge
Speaker 3: but the world it takes place in is. So lush,
Speaker 3: it's like, you know this breath of clean. Country AIR
Speaker 3: and i was just trying to think about what this
Speaker 3: to how the violence in the movie. IS received i
Speaker 3: think one thing you could say is that maybe it
Speaker 3: highlights how it's not just that the world.
Speaker 2: Is bad.
Speaker 3: You know sometimes you get these these gloomy movies with a,
Speaker 3: you know sympathetic weather or landscape pattern that reflects the
Speaker 3: evil in, the plot and that's just like a pessimistic
Speaker 3: read on life and on. The world and that's not
Speaker 3: what's going on here, very much very much in, This
Speaker 3: movie like the world, is good and there's a lot,
Speaker 3: of wholesome beautiful stuff in it that's worth. Fighting for
Speaker 3: there's love and kindness and beautiful, green fields but it
Speaker 3: can all just be destroyed, by stupid pointless of violence
Speaker 3: and hatred from Predators like Hopkins.
Speaker 2: And, stern, yeah like the world does not need to be,
Speaker 2: this way and you can look out your window and.
Speaker 2: See why, whereas yeah and these, other films, it's, like yeah.
Speaker 2: It's gloomy it's a dark and. Stormy night, of course
Speaker 2: things are playing out like a. Horror movie but, you, know,
Speaker 2: yeah yeah this is a.
Speaker 3: GREAT point i think there's another way you could interpret.
Speaker 3: It Too maybe i'm not sure which one makes more sense,
Speaker 3: To me but the other way is something about like
Speaker 3: like how the appearance of beauty or civility can conceal
Speaker 3: the signs, of barbarism like in the Way that hopkins
Speaker 3: presents himself publicly as civilized, and humane and then of
Speaker 3: course behind the scenes we know what He's. ACTUALLY like
Speaker 3: i wonder if that has something to do with like
Speaker 3: all these beautiful landscapes, we see but then when we
Speaker 3: figure out what's going on, in them.
Speaker 2: It's, horrible, Yeah yeah and there's probably another way That
Speaker 2: that i'm assuming here might read particularly for The local,
Speaker 2: british audience, you know like because these ideas of like
Speaker 2: What what britain, looks like What the english countryside, Looks
Speaker 2: LIKE and i can only imagine that sort of plays
Speaker 2: into it, as well, you know the sort of like
Speaker 2: local expectations of.
Speaker 3: Regional, Geography yeah saurn is operating within.
Speaker 2: The shire yeah there.
Speaker 3: You, GO yeah i Guess sorrow man actually does.
Speaker 2: Go.
Speaker 3: There, yeah, OKAY well i guess That's all i've got
Speaker 3: for now On Witch. Finder general do anything else you
Speaker 3: wanted to talk about before we wrap?
Speaker 1: It?
Speaker 2: UP no i think, we covered, you know in, broad
Speaker 2: strokes the really important. Themes here but, but yeah it's
Speaker 2: very interesting to consider this film's role in sort of
Speaker 2: laying the Groundwork For English full car as we've come to,
Speaker 2: understand it and then that sort of laying the Groundwork
Speaker 2: For full car. In general but, but yeah it is
Speaker 2: also still a film that, very much, you know exists on,
Speaker 2: its own, and yeah it's interesting to think about it As,
Speaker 2: a western interesting to think about what it is saying
Speaker 2: about about violence and chaotic times and oppression and misogyny
Speaker 2: in violent. Chaotic times, So yeah I'm glad i'm glad
Speaker 2: we ended up pivoting to, this one and it was
Speaker 2: is always great To See vincent price in a really.
Speaker 2: Commanding performance and yet again it's, you know a slightly
Speaker 2: different cocktail of. Elements here it's as different from from
Speaker 2: any of The Other vincent price performances we've talked about on. The.
Speaker 3: Show totally he's very good. In it but don't pick
Speaker 3: this movie for Your Fun vincent price.
Speaker 2: Movie.
Speaker 3: Night there go with one Of The doctor fibes Movies
Speaker 3: or Theater of blood or something, like that, You Know
Speaker 3: wax museum or is that what, it's called wax are
Speaker 3: one of his Wax.
Speaker 2: Movie, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 3: This one this is Not Fun. Times price this is
Speaker 3: this Is Bad. Times price but he's he excels at this.
Speaker 2: As well, all, right well we're gonna go ahead and
Speaker 2: close out this Episode Of Weird, house cinema but we'd
Speaker 2: love to hear from everyone out there if you have
Speaker 2: any thoughts On Which finder General And vincent price or
Speaker 2: some of the themes we discussed here. Right in we'd
Speaker 2: love to hear. From, you likewise, you know if we
Speaker 2: want to discuss the The The unholy Trinity of english
Speaker 2: folk car in general open to discussions of those films.
Speaker 2: As well let's see a reminder to everyone, out there,
Speaker 2: let's see if you've Listened to Stuff to Blow, your
Speaker 2: mind you know That the Stuff to Blow your mind
Speaker 2: feed is mostly built around our core Episodes on Tuesdays
Speaker 2: and thursdays those are science and. Culture episodes But on
Speaker 2: fridays we set aside most serious concerns to just talk about,
Speaker 2: a film a weird film or a, you know noteworthy
Speaker 2: of genre films such As Wich Finder general and if
Speaker 2: you go to letterbox, dot com look, us up We Are. Weird.
Speaker 2: House there we have a nice list of all the
Speaker 2: movies we've covered, thus far sometimes the peak ahead at what,
Speaker 2: comes next and there are all sorts of interesting ways
Speaker 2: you can tweak that list to look at view it in,
Speaker 2: different ways, you know focusing on different decades or even.
Speaker 2: Different performers so it's a lot. Of fun. Let's, see
Speaker 2: finally i'd Say that Stuff to Blow your mind we've
Speaker 2: been around for and for years. And Years Weird house
Speaker 2: cinema has been around for years at, this point mostly
Speaker 2: as an, audio podcast so most of what we've done
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Speaker 2: more recently we started putting out these video Podcasts, On
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Speaker 3: Long run huge thanks as always to our excellent AUDIO Producer.
Speaker 3: Jj posway if you would like to get in touch
Speaker 3: with us with feedback on this episode or, any other
Speaker 3: to suggest a topic for, the future or just to,
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