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Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Nancy Grace here, welcome back to Killers amongst Us,

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Speaker 1: a production of iHeartMedia and Crime Online. You know, when

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Speaker 1: you see people on TV or you hear them on

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Speaker 1: the radio, you wonder who are these people, what's going

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Speaker 1: on in their real life? Who are they really? Especially

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Speaker 1: with big stars and politicians. Politicians taking very strong opinions

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Speaker 1: to get elected, but then they're stuck with those strong opinions,

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Speaker 1: and opinions make enemies. You're either loved or you're hated,

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Speaker 1: And sadly a lot of politicians are hated, even though

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Speaker 1: many of them are trying to do the right thing.

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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Killers amongst Us. The fifty

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Speaker 1: seven year old mother was elected to the States Senate

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Speaker 1: as a Republican in twenty fourteen. I need your vote,

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Speaker 1: Lendas one of those people that couldn't it be bought, uncorruptible,

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Speaker 1: that wanted to tell people that badge stuff was happening

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Speaker 1: at the capitol. Ken Yang was Collins's communication director. He

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Speaker 1: says O'Donnell worked on Collins's reelection campaign. They were good friends.

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Speaker 1: They traveled together then did grassroots stuff. You were hearing

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Speaker 1: our friends at CBS this morning talking about this ball

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Speaker 1: of fire Senator Linda Collins Smith, who really takes politics

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Speaker 1: by storm, and what a story from ranks to riches.

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Speaker 1: This young girl who grew up on a gravel road

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Speaker 1: with no running water until she was in high school,

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Speaker 1: somehow manages to claw her way up, get an education,

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Speaker 1: make a living, and then take on politics. And she succeeded.

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Speaker 1: She was at success in so many ways, but unlucky

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Speaker 1: in love. As you heard. Her first marriage ended when

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Speaker 1: her husband claimed disability and wanted her to quit work

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Speaker 1: and stay home and live off the government. Well, that

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Speaker 1: did not sit well with Linda Collins Smith. That marriage

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Speaker 1: ended in divorce. But then along comes Prince Charming. Philip

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Speaker 1: Smith's background was similar to Linda Collins. His father was

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Speaker 1: the manager of a dime store and a Baptist minister

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Speaker 1: in Pocahona's, Arkansas. Smith served in the army from nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy two to nineteen seventy five. After leaving the army,

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Speaker 1: he entered college and worked as a journalist for the

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Speaker 1: jonesborough Son and the Arkansas Democrat. Smith earned his law

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Speaker 1: degree from the University of Arkansas Little Rock in nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy nine and for the next twenty two years put

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Speaker 1: his degree to use. Smith was a municipal judge in

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Speaker 1: the city of Pocahonnas and Randolph County for nine years.

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Speaker 1: Then in two thousand and one, Governor Mike Huckabee appointed

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Speaker 1: Smith as the Division two Judge of the Third Circuit

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Speaker 1: Court of Arkansas. He retired from the bench in December

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Speaker 1: of twenty seventeen. Likes Phil Smith was also a businessman,

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Speaker 1: owning several properties, including the hotel that he and Lynda operated,

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Speaker 1: The Day's Inn and Suites in Bocahannas. So along comes

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Speaker 1: Prince Charming, a lawyer, a judge, a businessperson to help

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Speaker 1: her pick up the pieces of her love life and

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Speaker 1: accepting her two children. With Me an all star panel

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Speaker 1: to break it down and put it back together and again.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Killers amongst Us with Me Crime online dot

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Speaker 1: com investigative reporter Levi Page, expert in online activity, private

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Speaker 1: investigator Derek Ellington and Ellington dot Net Professor Forensics, Jacksonville

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Speaker 1: State University. Author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon

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Speaker 1: and start of a brand new series on the True

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Speaker 1: Crime Network Poisonous. Liaison's Joseph Scott Morgan, renowned psychiatrists joining

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Speaker 1: us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Doctor Angela Arnold at

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Speaker 1: Angela Arnold MD dot com, judge, trial lawyer, court TV

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Speaker 1: anchor Ashley will Wilcott at Ashley Wilcot dot com. Special

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Speaker 1: guests joining us former Press Secretary for Linda Collins, Smith

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Speaker 1: Ken Yang, and Senator Missy Irvin, Arkansas State senator, longtime

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Speaker 1: friend of Linda Collins. Senator ken Yang, other guests, thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us, you know, Senator Irvin, it

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Speaker 1: just strikes me how this woman, this beautiful blonde with

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Speaker 1: the big blue eyes, managed to storm up in the

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Speaker 1: State Assembly and take on a lot of very tough topics.

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Speaker 1: And you know what, when you do that, you make enemies. Yes,

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Speaker 1: you're exactly right, you do, and you're going to fight

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Speaker 1: for what you believe in. And there's nobody else that

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Speaker 1: really fought for what she believed in like Linda did

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Speaker 1: in her own way. Linda and I knew each other

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Speaker 1: and met in two thousand and ten. We were both

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Speaker 1: running for I was running for state Senate and she

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Speaker 1: was running for state representative at that time. And she

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Speaker 1: was big, she was bold. She's little and petite, but

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Speaker 1: her ideas and her expressions were big and bold, and

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Speaker 1: she was a qual of fier and you didn't forget her.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to ask you to comment, Senator Missy

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Speaker 1: IRV and our special guest today, Arkansas State Senator. On

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Speaker 1: men in general, I will sorry to all you men

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Speaker 1: on the panel, but to you, doctor Angela Arnold. You

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Speaker 1: know you're an MD and that is still to this

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Speaker 1: day mell dominated, although it's changing so rapidly. As a

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Speaker 1: criminal prosecutor, I can tell you there were many times

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Speaker 1: I looked around the court room and I was the

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Speaker 1: only woman in there. Of course, to me, that was

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Speaker 1: like shooting a fish in a barrel. But that said,

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Speaker 1: why do men gets so powed when women succeed? What's

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Speaker 1: the problem. I think that the men who do get

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Speaker 1: poed when women succeed have a very low self esteem typically,

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Speaker 1: and you'll find people that have a very low self

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Speaker 1: esteem have narcissistic personality disorder, and it's all tied up together. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So there are very few men in the past that

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Speaker 1: were I think that men are coming around a little

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Speaker 1: bit more, but there is a little I said a

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Speaker 1: little bit more, okay, but there are but very few

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Speaker 1: men can tolerate being around a successful woman and complaint

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Speaker 1: with that. You know, I had, Ashley Wilcott. I had

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Speaker 1: the best example. I'm my dad Mac work for the railroad,

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Speaker 1: and my mom when he met her. I mean, she

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Speaker 1: was a bank teller and worked her way up to

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Speaker 1: working in a payroll for one company and the ultimately

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Speaker 1: being the CFO of a plant of a fortune five

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Speaker 1: hundred company. She is no ity it at all. In fact,

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Speaker 1: she was the only woman in the country that held

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Speaker 1: that position. Long story short, my dad never complained. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he pitched in and housework, took care of us when

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Speaker 1: he wasn't working crazy night shifts. Never a word. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he just always seemed proud and he always cheered my

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Speaker 1: sister and my brother and I on to just do

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Speaker 1: the best we could. And so I was really shocked.

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Speaker 1: I had never been around men like that, and frankly,

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Speaker 1: until I got in law school, Ashley Boy law school.

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Speaker 1: That says it all right, when you get in the

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Speaker 1: type a competitive that we've all encountered when we went

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Speaker 1: to law school. So you know, that's the way it

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Speaker 1: should be. In a perfect world. You should end up

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Speaker 1: with a person you should be with a person that's

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Speaker 1: going to support you in your endeavors, whether you're a

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Speaker 1: type a go after it like she was, or whether

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Speaker 1: you're going to choose to instead support the husband or

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Speaker 1: your other spouse while they go out and do those things.

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Speaker 1: And so in a perfect world, that's exactly what you want,

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Speaker 1: but we all know we don't live in a perfect

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Speaker 1: world and a lot of spouses are not that way.

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Speaker 1: Nancy jump in, I just want to thank you. I

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Speaker 1: really appreciate the concept question because and the Senate as

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Speaker 1: a majority is male in the Arkansas State Senate, and

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Speaker 1: the and the and the legislature, and it is very

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Speaker 1: difficult at times when you're the only woman and you're

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Speaker 1: the chair of the committee and you have to lead

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Speaker 1: it and people are challenging you because you know, quite frankly,

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Speaker 1: there's you know they I have been the victim of

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Speaker 1: being bullied many many times in that circumstance or questioned

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Speaker 1: or my integrity is in question, or you know, what

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Speaker 1: is her intentions or what are her motives? You know,

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Speaker 1: and quite frankly, you know, at one point the Arkansas

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Speaker 1: Democrat is that every single time they would list me

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Speaker 1: in the newspaper about anything that I would do or

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Speaker 1: anything I would say. They would say, Senate or miss

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Speaker 1: the Irvin Comma, whose husband is a doctor? Or who

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Speaker 1: is the wife of a physician? Every single time. Not

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Speaker 1: one time did they would they ever say, Senator, you

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Speaker 1: know bart Hester, who's married to a doctor or an attorney,

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Speaker 1: or who is the husband of the attorney? Not one time.

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Speaker 1: And I had one whole entire page the Arkansas Democrat.

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Speaker 1: Is that where I circled that and pointed that out,

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Speaker 1: And it was just the legislative briefs from the day

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Speaker 1: from the session. And I sent it to the editor

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Speaker 1: and I said, this is wrong that I got here

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Speaker 1: on my own two feet. I love my husband and

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Speaker 1: he's been incredibly supportive of me. But I got here

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Speaker 1: with my own two feet, with the brain that I

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Speaker 1: have in my head. And I am not identified as

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Speaker 1: the wife of or I am married too. That does

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Speaker 1: not define me. I am defined by what I have

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Speaker 1: achieved on my own and under my title that I

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Speaker 1: earned earned because I'm the one that worked and I'm

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Speaker 1: the one that went out there, and I'm the one

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Speaker 1: that fought for that seat in the Arkansas State Senate,

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Speaker 1: not my husband, and he supported me, and I love

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Speaker 1: him greatly, but you know he was offended by it

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Speaker 1: as well, because he knows me and he's married to me.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I just say that because there is

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Speaker 1: it is a difficult world out there, and I just

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Speaker 1: so much appreciate the fact that you brought that up

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Speaker 1: and that you are saying that boldly and proudly, and

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Speaker 1: I had to deal with it. I'm going to be

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Speaker 1: dealing with that today. In fact, I'm chair of the

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Speaker 1: Senate Ethics Committee and we have an issue, and I

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Speaker 1: am the chair of it, and I have to follow

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Speaker 1: the rules, no matter what I have to do that,

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Speaker 1: no matter how unpopular that might be. I have to

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Speaker 1: follow the law, the Constitution, and the rules. And Linda

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Speaker 1: was that person. She saw things very clearly, and she

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Speaker 1: was not going to be bullied, and she was not

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Speaker 1: going to be pushed around, and she was going to

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Speaker 1: say and she said what she thought and that might

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Speaker 1: rub people wrong and people might disagree with that, but

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Speaker 1: I can tell you, you know, you get down here

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Speaker 1: and you don't just get to do what you want

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Speaker 1: to do. You have to follow the rules. And sometimes

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Speaker 1: you've talked about the narcissistic behavior and the type of

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Speaker 1: personality that's even magnified in a politician. Politicians are narcissistic

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Speaker 1: in itself, and so you know that and nobody, very

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Speaker 1: few people say no to them. And so you you

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Speaker 1: combine that with you know, as they come in, and

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Speaker 1: then it's even more complicated if they come from the military. Sometimes,

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Speaker 1: you know, nobody outranks anybody else in that Senate. You know,

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Speaker 1: just because you're a colonel or a Green Beret, or

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Speaker 1: an Army ranger or a Navy seal or whatever. That's great, wonderful,

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Speaker 1: we love you for your service, but when you are

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Speaker 1: elected into that body, you do not outrank anybody else.

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Speaker 1: Senator Irvan Well said, thank you. I'm voting for you absolutely.

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Speaker 1: Senator Missy Irvin, You've just given me a glimpse into

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Speaker 1: the character of Linda Collins Smith, because you know, the

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Speaker 1: old anage birds of a feather flock together. Well, Kenny Yang,

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Speaker 1: jos Got Morgan and Derek Ellington and Levi Page. I

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Speaker 1: guess you're watching your piece and Q's on this program

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Speaker 1: because between us, ladies, you know, I think we've got

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Speaker 1: you out numbered. We're talking about Linda Collins Smith and

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Speaker 1: what she faced there and the Arkansas Assembly you're hearing

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Speaker 1: her long time from Missy Irvin, Arkansas State senator speaking out,

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Speaker 1: and you know she had been unlucky in love. And

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Speaker 1: then she finally finds this judge, a lawyer. Seemingly everything

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Speaker 1: checked out just perfectly on his resume. Take a listen

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Speaker 1: to Dave Matt Crime online. Linda Collins was successful in

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Speaker 1: real estate and Philip Smith was a successful lawyer and judge.

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Speaker 1: When they got married, they invested in real estate, and

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Speaker 1: Philip Smith said Linda was a good businesswoman and very smart.

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Speaker 1: It was during their marriage that Lynda Collins Smith ran

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Speaker 1: for political office and one she served in the State

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Speaker 1: House of Representatives, changed parties from Democrat to Republican, then

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Speaker 1: ran for the State Senate and one again. Linda Collins

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Speaker 1: Smith was a conservative politician, a strong voice who didn't

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Speaker 1: back away from a fight. That was her trademark. Now,

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Speaker 1: when that's your trademark, translation, you have enemies. But the

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Speaker 1: new husband stood by her side, not just in politics,

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Speaker 1: but business too. Listen. During their marriage, Linda Collins Smith

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Speaker 1: and Philip Smith were also the owner operators of the

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Speaker 1: days in and Suites of Pocahonas. So, besides Philip Smith

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Speaker 1: being a circuit judge and Linda Colin Smith serving in

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Speaker 1: the State House of Representatives. They were busy with businesses

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Speaker 1: at their home in Pocahonas. Then they decided to open

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Speaker 1: up a new hotel. They bought a thirty unit unsuccessful motel,

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Speaker 1: remodeled it with the core from the fifties and sixties,

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Speaker 1: and reopened it as the Rock and Roll Highway sixty

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Speaker 1: seven in in Pocahonas. Wow. So these two were building

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Speaker 1: financial empire as well. And from what we understand, he

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Speaker 1: also took the two children under his wing, the children

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Speaker 1: from the previous marriage, and they seemed like one big,

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Speaker 1: happy family, kind of like the Brady Bunch. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to our new Friends Center, Missy Irvin speaking the

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Speaker 1: first time I met Linda. It was a stormy night

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Speaker 1: and it was in Pocohonas, and that was at the

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Speaker 1: Eddie Mahern Center. We were at a pass upper and

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Speaker 1: Dais rest in her red suits, was her red book

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Speaker 1: stick on. She was animated, she was passionate. I was

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Speaker 1: there with my four children, who were very gay at

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Speaker 1: the time, but who were quickly becoming my little political consultants.

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Speaker 1: Linda gave this thousand speech about this second aliments about

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Speaker 1: protecting the life of unboard children, about the need to

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Speaker 1: support small businesses, and she ended the vote for me

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Speaker 1: and the Democrat primary and my two that alternas and

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Speaker 1: looked at me in astonishment, and they said, well, she

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Speaker 1: just gave your seat. They didn't understand why she was

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Speaker 1: bothering the Democrat primary, and I was a Republican of wow, wow,

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Speaker 1: I could just imagine her giving that space. Joining you

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Speaker 1: right now, Foreign Press Secretary ken Yang, Ken, I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to get an understanding of who Linda Collins is, what

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Speaker 1: she stands for, what she's like as a mom. And

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Speaker 1: I know she's right for a single mom for a

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Speaker 1: long long time and raising the two children, working the business,

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Speaker 1: scrapping her way to the top she gets elected. But

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Speaker 1: tell me about the real Linda Collins. Well, I think

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Speaker 1: you know, Senator Urban gave some great insight of who

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Speaker 1: who she is. But you know, the first thing that

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Speaker 1: comes to my mind is a Christian. She was a

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Speaker 1: She was a god fearing Christian woman. Hold on, ken Yang,

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Speaker 1: I just got to tell you something right now. You know,

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Speaker 1: especially in politics and in media, when you announce you're

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Speaker 1: a Christian, everybody starts making fun of you. It's like

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Speaker 1: you're one of the last targets that it's okay to

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Speaker 1: make fun of and mock. And for some reason it

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Speaker 1: engenders so much animosity. I don't get it, but it does.

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Speaker 1: And I'm just thinking about her being a strong Christian

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Speaker 1: or as I like to say, I'm trying to be

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Speaker 1: absurdly tried, and that and itself makes enemies. This the

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Speaker 1: strangest thing, ken Well. I think, you know, people tend

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Speaker 1: to focus on the bad. You know, there's always a

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Speaker 1: bad student in every class. There's always you know that

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Speaker 1: you know, someone that breaks the rules, and people want

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Speaker 1: to focus on the on the on that minority and uh,

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Speaker 1: but you know, when you get to Linda, you know

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Speaker 1: she's one of the She was one of the good ones.

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Speaker 1: And even though when she would just go full steam

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Speaker 1: ahead and you could you would disagree with her, you

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Speaker 1: would you know, fight her and committee or Priavalia or whatever,

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Speaker 1: but she loved you afterwards. If you ended up not

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Speaker 1: talking to her, if you ended up not wanting to

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Speaker 1: be friends with her, that was on you. It was

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Speaker 1: never on Linda, because Linda wanted to continue to hug

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Speaker 1: on you, be there for you, and uh, and just

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Speaker 1: be just live that good Christian life, the embodiment wherever

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Speaker 1: she went. Do you agree to urban you're hearing Kenyane?

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Speaker 1: Do you agree? Oh? Absolutely? She I think she got

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Speaker 1: that from her parents. I mean, they raised her to be,

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Speaker 1: you know, a very strong Christian, scripturally based woman, and

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Speaker 1: I think she took that through her life and all

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Speaker 1: that she did and the way she treated people I

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Speaker 1: think was in that vein. But also it molded the

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Speaker 1: way she believed, and that came out very clearly in

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Speaker 1: the way she delivered her comments, the way that she

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Speaker 1: would reference scripture, and that really formed her opinions, and

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Speaker 1: it formed her beliefs, and it formed her outlook on

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Speaker 1: different situations, whether that be in society or whether it

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Speaker 1: be as a matter of law, and you know, and

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Speaker 1: she really she applied that filter. And I appreciate that.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate that. I am a Christian person. I'm with you, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we work every day and that's what we're

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Speaker 1: supposed to do. But it is important, I think for people.

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Speaker 1: And I think people are threatened to buy it because

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Speaker 1: it does set a standard immediately, and that's the standard

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Speaker 1: that person's going to go by. And I think people

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Speaker 1: are threatened by that and if they perhaps maybe not

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Speaker 1: understand it completely or not understand how it guides people

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Speaker 1: because they just won't take the time to engage in

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Speaker 1: the conversation about it with them. So I'm really impressed

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Speaker 1: that she was upfront about that. Guys, who is this woman?

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Speaker 1: Linda Collins Smith? So another thing that factors into this

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Speaker 1: is being the single mom were a king. And then

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Speaker 1: she finally meets mister Wright. Well, I've got news on that.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen. Judge Philip Smith and Linda Collins were

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Speaker 1: separated for eighteen months before Linda Collins filed for divorce.

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Speaker 1: While Smith did not contest the divorce, the divorce was

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Speaker 1: anything but amiable. They argued bitterly over property and money.

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Speaker 1: Even after the decree was granted, Collins filed a one

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Speaker 1: thousand page notice of appeal. She claimed the trial courts

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Speaker 1: ruling as to the division of property was erroneous. At

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Speaker 1: the heart of the matter a tax refund check and

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Speaker 1: gold coins. Smiths repeatedly asked for their coins to be

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Speaker 1: turned over to him. Collins denied knowing where they were.

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Speaker 1: What happened, you know, I mean to you, ken Yang,

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Speaker 1: what happened? What went wrong? I mean, this guy looks

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Speaker 1: so good on paper, right, Yes, Um, you know I think, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, when when people are are in power, or

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Speaker 1: you know, as y'all were alluding to it, when females

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Speaker 1: are out there and being successful and uh letting letting

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Speaker 1: their name be known, letting you know, themselves be known.

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Speaker 1: You know, sometimes it causes uh friction uh in in relationships.

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Speaker 1: H causes friction, friction at home and you know, being

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Speaker 1: a state senator, being a legislators taxing, especially when you

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Speaker 1: live far away from Little Rock, you're always in Little Rong,

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Speaker 1: You're always away, so there's not as much time to

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Speaker 1: address the issues that you probably would if you, you know,

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Speaker 1: worked at eight to five job and went home every nut.

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Speaker 1: You know what, Kenyan, and they could use you at

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Speaker 1: the un because you are certainly diplomatic to leave my page.

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Speaker 1: Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter. What the hey? He

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Speaker 1: went wrong? The man gets the catch of a lifetime.

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Speaker 1: He falls into a pot of honey with this woman.

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Speaker 1: What happened, Nancy? We don't know exactly what led to

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Speaker 1: the divorce. All we know is when they were divorcing,

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Speaker 1: it was extremely bitter. He even wanted her locked up

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Speaker 1: and held in contempt, and that never happened. In the

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Speaker 1: middle of a divorce, he tries to get the state

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Speaker 1: senator locked up and held in contempt. Okay, well that's

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Speaker 1: telling me a lot about him right there. Yes, he

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Speaker 1: did that, Keep going, LEVI never happened, she was never

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Speaker 1: locked up, and they had a bitter divorce that was appealed.

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Speaker 1: She appealed the divorce ruling, and they were continuing to

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Speaker 1: fight this very bitter divorce that dragged on from years,

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Speaker 1: from twenty sixteen to two nineteen. Can you imagine having

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Speaker 1: that stress in your life. Oh, let me just throw

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Speaker 1: a question out there. Has anybody ever been threatened on

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Speaker 1: this panel and being sent to jail? Because I have

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Speaker 1: anybody anybody want to admit it, I'll tell you what happened.

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Speaker 1: I was prosecuting a child molester, I mean a long

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Speaker 1: time child molester too, and the defense attorney put his

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Speaker 1: law partner up on the stand to talk about why

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Speaker 1: one of these little girls when was aged three, how

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Speaker 1: they recanted their story that mommy's boyfriend, very very rich

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Speaker 1: millionaire by the way, had been molesting him full on

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Speaker 1: sex with a three year old. So Anyway, I started

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Speaker 1: a cross examining him as I should under about his

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Speaker 1: pecuniary interest in the outcome of the as to you know,

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Speaker 1: a possible ball slant to his testimony, and the judge

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Speaker 1: held me in contempt. Well, let me tell you that

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Speaker 1: courtroom filled up with public defenders faster than you could

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Speaker 1: blink an eye to see me get fingerprinted and hauled away. Well,

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Speaker 1: there was another judge in the courthouse who once kissed

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Speaker 1: me on the knee. He was aiming from my ear,

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Speaker 1: but he didn't see very well. He's about ninety five

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Speaker 1: years old and he landed on my knee. Anyway, he

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Speaker 1: begged the judge just to wait till the end of

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Speaker 1: the trial before I was taken to jail. And by

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Speaker 1: the end of the trial, the judge cooled down and

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Speaker 1: did not send me to jail. Now that's a story

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Speaker 1: for the books right there. But you know, I just

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Speaker 1: don't think any lawyers worth their salt length they've been

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Speaker 1: threatened with contempt or going to jail at least once.

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Speaker 1: So I'm not impressed, leave my page. I'm not impressed

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Speaker 1: at all that this so called a husband one and

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Speaker 1: his wife thrown in jail needless to say he did

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Speaker 1: not turn out to be Prince Charming. Listen to Tyler

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Speaker 1: Thomas and at KA r K four four documents who

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Speaker 1: revealed the former senator was in the process of divorcing

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Speaker 1: her husband, retired Judge Philip Smith. Hearing in that case

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Speaker 1: was scheduled later this month, and according to documented testimony,

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Speaker 1: the couple were at odds over money after selling a

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Speaker 1: local hotel for more than a million dollars the X Lawmakers.

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Speaker 1: A former spokesperson tells us the divorce quote was not pleasant.

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Speaker 1: Trouble is brewing for well known politician A house on

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Speaker 1: fire Linda Collins Smith. What's really going on in the

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Speaker 1: inner circle of Linda Collins Smith? Turmoil killers amongst us.

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Speaker 1: Nancy Gray signing off goodbye for