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Speaker 1: Wow, what a beautiful animal. God get just to get

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Speaker 1: a few moments to just watch that animal. Few people

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Speaker 1: in the world will ever get to do that. You

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Speaker 1: can be out. You can be out in this country

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Speaker 1: your whole life, hiking, riding the mule, whatever. You might

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Speaker 1: see a mountainlying in a lifetime. You know they're just

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Speaker 1: you just don't see them. The only way you're gonna

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Speaker 1: see them and look at them like this right here

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Speaker 1: is with hunting with these dogs. And we are a

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Speaker 1: long ways from the truck, miles and miles in back

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Speaker 1: country from the truck.

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Speaker 2: Man.

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Speaker 1: When when I see an animal like that, I think

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Speaker 1: about the country it came from. I mean, this is

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Speaker 1: some true back country and that sucker is made of

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Speaker 1: living out here his whole life. What you just heard

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Speaker 1: was a clip from my new film out on the

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Speaker 1: med Eater YouTube channel of my lion hunt on Mules

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Speaker 1: with some very legendary guys McLain and Hunter Meekham and

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Speaker 1: Ty Evans. We're gonna talk a ton about them. But

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Speaker 1: this was episode two of Meet Eaters twelve and twenty

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Speaker 1: six series. So Meet Eaters always putting out videos. Every

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Speaker 1: week we put out videos, but this year we're putting

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Speaker 1: out twelve long form films. Everyone films, not episodes, not videos,

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Speaker 1: not clips. Films, Yeah, Yannis, Yeah, Me and Jannis have

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Speaker 1: this argument going on of are we making episodes? Yannis

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Speaker 1: makes episodes. I make films, right, I think Jannis makes films.

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Speaker 1: Jiannis is incredible. This is meters twelve and twenty six

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Speaker 1: and the twelve twelve meaning twelve months of the year

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Speaker 1: twenty six being the year of twenty twenty six. We're

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Speaker 1: producing twelve full length feature films. This film that we

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Speaker 1: just released to mine is forty five minutes long. Giannis's

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Speaker 1: first film about his baited bear hunt. The first twelve

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Speaker 1: and twenty six was a full hour long. And these

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Speaker 1: are presented by our sponsors, our big time friends products

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Speaker 1: we use in the woods all the time on X

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Speaker 1: and Moultrie. And this is the Companion podcast, the Companion

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Speaker 1: Show called the twelve and twenty six podcast. That's where

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Speaker 1: all this has been going, folks, ever since you started.

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Speaker 1: This is the twelve and twenty six podcast, right, that's right,

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Speaker 1: the Companion Show to the twelve and twenty six film

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Speaker 1: series where we go behind the scenes. You know, I've

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Speaker 1: always been a big fan of long form audio like podcasts,

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Speaker 1: because when I started making films, you can go on

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Speaker 1: some big expedition and make a twenty minute film and

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Speaker 1: it really doesn't It honestly doesn't capture the full story.

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Speaker 1: If you were just sitting there listening to me talking. Now,

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Speaker 1: if you're just listening to me talk, you're not seeing

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Speaker 1: the lion, You're not seeing the mountains. You're not you're

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Speaker 1: not You're kind of in the moment in a different.

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Speaker 2: Way at all your senses, right.

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Speaker 1: But I feel like a film sometimes doesn't capture the

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Speaker 1: full thing. So what we're trying to do is just

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Speaker 1: like fill in all the gaps. So you got the film,

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Speaker 1: you can watch it. You can see the mules, you

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Speaker 1: can see the lions. We tread three lions. But spoiler alert,

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Speaker 1: this is behind the scenes. Yeah, I'm gonna tell you,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna spill it all, folks. It's all

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Speaker 1: gonna be on the table on this episode of the

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Speaker 1: twelve and twenty six podcast. I'm joined by my dear

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Speaker 1: friend and producer Josh Landbridge spillmaker. And if some of

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Speaker 1: you might be if you're not tuned into Bear Grease

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Speaker 1: all the time, you might not know that Josh. I

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Speaker 1: gave Josh this nickname. I mean like in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and eight, a long time ago, like probably twenty years ago.

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Speaker 1: I started calling Landbridge because he's got such a good

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Speaker 1: mustache that this is a true story. One day we

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Speaker 1: go to church together. At church, I saw Josh and

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Speaker 1: I was inspired to go learn about the baring land

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Speaker 1: Bridge and went and ordered my first book on the

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Speaker 1: Bearing Land Bridge. I still got it inspired by this

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Speaker 1: because inspired by Josh's mustache, because it's like links continents.

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Speaker 1: So Josh Landbridge filmmaker. It was deep in the weeds

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Speaker 1: on the Bear Greege podcast with me so awesome.

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Speaker 2: Well, Clay, this was this was a fantastic film.

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Speaker 3: Man.

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Speaker 2: I'm really excited to kind of get into it. Hear

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Speaker 2: your thoughts on this specific hunt, lion hunting in general.

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Speaker 2: And we've got some great questions from me and some

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Speaker 2: great questions from some of our social media outlets, YouTube

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Speaker 2: and Instagram. So we're gonna throw it all at you

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Speaker 2: and give you an opportunity to respond. So kind of

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Speaker 2: just getting into it.

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Speaker 1: Can I do a preamble? You can't what every preamble

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Speaker 1: I just did?

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: I just want to I want to like set the

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Speaker 1: wider picture for dry ground lion hunting, so you're gonna

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Speaker 1: hear that term used, and that what that means is

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Speaker 1: is when you're when you're hunting lions. Ninety nine percent

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Speaker 1: of lions harvested in this country ninety five to ninety nine,

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Speaker 1: I would say, would be lions that were harvested over dogs.

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Speaker 1: And it's primarily in the west. There are no lion

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Speaker 1: seasons east of the Mississippi or even really east of

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Speaker 1: the Rocky Mountains, right, and so it's all happening out

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Speaker 1: west and in the northern part of the Mountain lion

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Speaker 1: range there's snow. And when you are lion hunting in

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Speaker 1: the snow with dogs, a human goes out and looks

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Speaker 1: for a track in the snow so you can drive roads,

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Speaker 1: you could ride to your equine animal, you could do whatever. However,

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Speaker 1: you're going to get across the country and cover vast

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Speaker 1: amounts of ground. Half half of the hunt is finding

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Speaker 1: a track. But when it's in the snow, you can

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Speaker 1: see the track, you can tell what kind of line

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Speaker 1: it is. You know if it's a male female. Typically,

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Speaker 1: but most importantly, scent holds better in the snow, and

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Speaker 1: is much easier to trail a lion in snow than

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Speaker 1: it is on dry ground. It was described to me

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Speaker 1: one time like this, imagine a scent particle being essentially

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Speaker 1: like a biologically active particle, and if you put that

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Speaker 1: particle in the refrigerator, it would last longer and not degradate.

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Speaker 2: Which this brings up a point. I was curious about

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Speaker 2: that word, which I don't think is a word degradate. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: oh dang, yeah, So folks English majors forgive him.

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Speaker 1: Well, degradates a word degrade. It's just pronunciation tomato, tomato.

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Speaker 1: So the scent particle, if you were to take it

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Speaker 1: and put it into the refrigerator, that makes sense. I've

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Speaker 1: never thought about that, but it totally makes sense. And

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Speaker 1: so lion hunting in the snow is easier. I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying it's easy, but it's easier, and it takes a

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Speaker 1: dog that doesn't have to have as good as nose.

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Speaker 1: You get into the arid Southwest like in Utah, New Mexico, Arizona.

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Speaker 1: You used to could run hounds in California, ken anymore. Uh,

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Speaker 1: they're having to start these lines on dry ground right

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Speaker 1: and in the hound world, and people turn it up

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Speaker 1: if you're if you're what, turn up the volume on

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Speaker 1: your device right now so you can hear this. In

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Speaker 1: the hound world, the dry ground lion dogs are the

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Speaker 1: Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James of of of the

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Speaker 1: Hound World. There, I said it, I said it. Okay.

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Speaker 1: It takes a lot higher skill set two tree a

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Speaker 1: line on dry ground than it does to tree a coon.

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Speaker 2: I can just see the comments that are going, Oh.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna it's gonna hurt, but it's just it's just no,

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Speaker 1: there's every every animal and dog used in hunting has

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Speaker 1: to have a specific set of skill sets that make

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Speaker 1: it wonderful and unique. But from my estimation, for whatever

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Speaker 1: that's worth, and the estimation of many really great people

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Speaker 1: in the hound world, for a dry ground line dog,

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Speaker 1: he's got to have an almost otherworldly nose, okay. And

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Speaker 1: for instance, in coon hunting, you don't necessarily want one

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Speaker 1: with a super cold nose because there's there's coons everywhere.

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Speaker 1: You don't want him to treat started track that's twelve

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Speaker 1: hours old, right, You want him to go find a

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Speaker 1: hot one, right, And that's all in his ability to

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Speaker 1: smell and his desire. You got to have a line

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Speaker 1: dog that has an extremely cold nose. These dogs have

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Speaker 1: got to be superb athletes. I mean, I'm telling you,

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Speaker 1: McLean Meekham's dogs were running. I mean we were putting

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Speaker 1: twelve to twenty miles a day on the mules. We

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Speaker 1: were following the dogs, not step first step, but I

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Speaker 1: mean those dogs had well over one hundred probably one

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty miles.

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Speaker 2: You're gonna you're gonna have to pump the brakes on

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Speaker 2: this preamble a little bit. Coming getting into the content

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Speaker 2: that we're going to talk about. People got lots of questions.

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Speaker 1: Well I hadn't even started the preamble yet. All that

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Speaker 1: to say, dry ground line hunting and the men and

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Speaker 1: women that are dry ground line hunters often are held

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Speaker 1: in high esteem in the in the very small circles,

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Speaker 1: and the Meekams are nationally known and respected as incredible

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Speaker 1: dry ground line hunters. And I'm telling you they made

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Speaker 1: it look easy.

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Speaker 2: Really.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, to go out in five it's amazing. Don't try

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Speaker 1: to stop me, Josh, to go out in five days

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Speaker 1: in tree three Well.

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Speaker 2: That actually kind of of kind of leads me into

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Speaker 2: into one of our first questions here is you know

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Speaker 2: you say it's rare to at first, you say it's

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Speaker 2: rare to to treat two lions in three days?

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Speaker 1: Right right?

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Speaker 2: Right? What when you're getting into it? When when you

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Speaker 2: before you went, what was your expectation did you have

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Speaker 2: an expectation like could I go five days and with

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Speaker 2: us not tree line? Or what what did you think

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Speaker 2: was gonna have?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I had a lot of confidence in the

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Speaker 1: Meekhams and they they we were coming at a good time.

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Speaker 1: It was a good time to come. We had optimal conditions.

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Speaker 1: We had some snow, it was really cold. But is

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Speaker 1: it possible to go out there for five days and

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Speaker 1: not tree a line, even with some of the best. Absolutely?

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Speaker 3: I know.

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Speaker 1: I know multiple people. Last night a guy texted me

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Speaker 1: and said, I've been on two guided lion hunts, like

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Speaker 1: paid money to go on guided line hunts like week

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Speaker 1: long hunts and never saw a line. Wow, and like wow,

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Speaker 1: presumably two five day hunts. I know another guy I

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Speaker 1: won't say his name, a dear friend of mine, has

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Speaker 1: been on two guided line hunts with very reputial outfitters

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Speaker 1: and has never killed a line. I think they probably

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Speaker 1: treat a female or something.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: And so yeah, for us to treat three in five

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Speaker 1: days was you couldn't have asked for anything better.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, we've got some kind of we've got some

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Speaker 2: footage of of kind of just of the terrain of

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Speaker 2: where you were hunting in Utah. Have you hunted in

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Speaker 2: this region before?

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Speaker 1: Never have? This is my first time in Utah.

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Speaker 2: So did you have an expectation of what the riding

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Speaker 2: and the and would be like before you got there?

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Speaker 1: You know, yeah, it was. It was probably longer than

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Speaker 1: I thought it was going to be. Like, we rode

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Speaker 1: over eighty miles per hour on X that we were tracked.

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Speaker 2: That's a lot of miles. And you rode the same mule,

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Speaker 2: didn't you.

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Speaker 1: I rode the same meal.

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Speaker 2: That's unbelievable. That's unbelievab.

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Speaker 1: Yes, one of the mules. So our cameraman, one of

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Speaker 1: our cameramen was on a mule law and Molten and

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Speaker 1: on the fifth day and he I mean this mule

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Speaker 1: is riding right behind me. I mean it's gone eighty miles.

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Speaker 1: I asked mcclan how old is that mule? And he

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Speaker 1: said twenty five years old. Wow, carried Lorn Malton eighty

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Speaker 1: eighty miles and you know, not like eighty twel miles

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Speaker 1: telling you eighty miles of up and down an elevation

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Speaker 1: game and skidding down mountains. I mean, rough, unbelievable, But

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Speaker 1: it actually to me in some ways is I don't

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Speaker 1: want to say easier. But when you ride long distance

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Speaker 1: in the eastern deciduous forest, you're constantly fighting brush and

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Speaker 1: getting scratched up.

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Speaker 2: I wondered it was what happened to your nose?

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Speaker 1: I got banged by a cedar tree. But most of

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Speaker 1: the time we're just like out in the wide open,

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Speaker 1: okay most of the time.

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Speaker 2: Well the scenery was I mean spectacular, So well, that's

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Speaker 2: that's great. We're gonna we're gonna watch another clip here.

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Speaker 1: Three quarters of a century of selective breeding by the Meekams,

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Speaker 1: and you'd have to sell your truck to buy one

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Speaker 1: if they were ever for sale. Line dogs require a

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Speaker 1: unique skill set of hunt drive, physical stamina which borders

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Speaker 1: on something supernatural, and an incredible nose, topped with desire

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Speaker 1: to treat game, not just to run it.

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Speaker 2: So you kind of got into it. Was there anything

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Speaker 2: you wanted to add to well, you know, people would

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Speaker 2: look at these dogs and just think, you know, there

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Speaker 2: some of them are mixed breed, but they've just they've

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Speaker 2: they've bred these genetics into them to do what they're

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Speaker 2: supposed to do. So you talked about cold nose, you

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Speaker 2: you talked about them being able just to trail and

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Speaker 2: to have the drive and the athleticism anything else that

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Speaker 2: would set apart a lion dog, a dry ground lion

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Speaker 2: dog versus like a coon dog or a deer dog.

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Speaker 1: Well, the when you look at like some of the

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Speaker 1: bigger hounds in the East, and there's some big dry

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Speaker 1: ground line dogs, but typically like McLean's dogs were probably

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Speaker 1: fifty probably forty five to sixty five pounds, and I

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Speaker 1: mean some of these bigger coon dog breeds are are

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Speaker 1: bigger than that. And a bigger dog typically breaks down

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Speaker 1: a little faster, just like doesn't have like the stamina

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Speaker 1: of their feet breakdown. And so when you're going that

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Speaker 1: many miles day after day, you got to have a

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Speaker 1: dog with really good feet and that won't go lame

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Speaker 1: on you, you know, way back out there. Sure, and

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Speaker 1: that comes after just selective breeding, you know, litter after litter,

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Speaker 1: and breeding the good ones to the good ones, you know,

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Speaker 1: and eventually you get this this dog that is kind

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Speaker 1: of dial itself in a way, you know. I mean,

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Speaker 1: when these these guys hunt so much, they really do.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they they hunt so much, and they just

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Speaker 1: really their dogs express the potential that they have. And

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Speaker 1: but okay, I think the dogs are endlessly fascinating.

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Speaker 2: Another question, how would you respond to critics of hunting

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Speaker 2: with hounds that would say it's easy or there's no

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Speaker 2: hunting taking place.

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Speaker 1: Right man, I would say, honestly, anybody that would say

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Speaker 1: that has never maybe they've gone on a hound hunt,

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Speaker 1: but they've never owned hounds or done it themselves. And

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Speaker 1: I would I would say that hunting with hounds is

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Speaker 1: actually the most primitive method of hunting. Like if you

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Speaker 1: take out a scope with a rifle on it and

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Speaker 1: go sit in a deer stand, and then you say

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Speaker 1: that someone is not hunting when they're hunting with hounds,

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Speaker 1: I mean you kind of live, you know, dichotomy. There's

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Speaker 1: some this isn't going to work for you. But I'm

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Speaker 1: a big proponent of hound hunting, and it's a traditional

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Speaker 1: practice that goes back to the very beginning of the

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Speaker 1: human story. And so this is a this is a

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Speaker 1: modified version of that. I mean, it's like, obviously we're

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Speaker 1: not subsistence hunting, but it's super hard man. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean you load up a pack of hounds and try

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Speaker 1: to go out to Utah by yourself and tree line

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Speaker 1: good luck. Yeah, you know, it's it's it's very difficult.

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Speaker 1: And then the beauty of it from a conservation perspective

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Speaker 1: is you get to you get to be selective on

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Speaker 1: the animals that you harvest, which was pretty much the

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Speaker 1: theme of our of our of our sure for sure.

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Speaker 2: Okay, let's we got another clip here too.

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Speaker 1: The African tracker's ability to follow planes game hyper focus

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Speaker 1: on obscure details for decades produces unique while following the

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Speaker 1: dogs step for step. And there's a reason these Western

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Speaker 1: line hunters typically use mules. They're more surefooted, safer, lasts

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Speaker 1: longer in rough country than horses.

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Speaker 2: Tipically, there's a it's a few clips together.

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Speaker 1: Temperatures are hovering in the single digits, and we're going

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Speaker 1: into a completely new canyon.

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Speaker 2: Oh, not supposed to hear the audio of this anyway,

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Speaker 2: We'll just watch it. The dogs make so that that

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Speaker 2: that spot there Tie when Tie's mule slips on the

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Speaker 2: rock that was that could have been pretty hairy right there.

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Speaker 1: You know, Tie Evans heartbeat would not have skipped a beat.

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Speaker 2: Really yeah, he didn't.

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Speaker 1: He wouldn't have even and he knew that everything was

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Speaker 1: okay because of that mule. I mean that that's that's

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Speaker 1: when you want to have an animal that's very sure footed,

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Speaker 1: and that's when where the mules thrive. And I mean

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Speaker 1: obviously that mule slipped and fell, but it recovered tumbled

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Speaker 1: down the mountain.

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Speaker 2: Sure would you say this is probably some of the

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Speaker 2: roughest riding you've.

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Speaker 1: Done, you know I have done. There was one section

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Speaker 1: on day one that was super steep and the camera

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Speaker 1: just didn't pick it up.

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Speaker 2: There were a couple of spots though, where you you

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Speaker 2: could get a little bit of an idea of how

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Speaker 2: steep it was. I mean it scared me, you know,

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Speaker 2: having been on a mule a little bit, it scared

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Speaker 2: me looking at it.

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Speaker 1: Well, the first the first two hours we rode, the

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Speaker 1: dogs just went over this mountain and belled off and

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Speaker 1: it was I mean, it's hard. I don't even know

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Speaker 1: how to describe how steep it was. I would say

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Speaker 1: ninety five percent of people riding an ecoin animal would

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Speaker 1: have walked the mule down right, and we knew we

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Speaker 1: could have right, But I was there with Ti Evans,

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Speaker 1: McLain Meekham, and I was like, hey, let's just ride.

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Speaker 2: That scene where I don't know if it was McClain

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Speaker 2: or if it was Tie where they're coming down and

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Speaker 2: you mentioned the bridge and that was steep. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: mean that was really steep. And you mentioned the brig

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Speaker 2: and that you use the bridging on mules, and that's

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Speaker 2: the strap that goes around the hind quarters of the mule.

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Speaker 2: Whichever you use a bridging on a horse.

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Speaker 1: It typically don't And I wasn't able. This is a

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Speaker 1: prime example people of where it films doesn't give you

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Speaker 1: the time to tell the whole story. So the reason

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Speaker 1: that you only see briging on mules is because a

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Speaker 1: mule's front shoulders are narrow, and so the saddle has

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Speaker 1: a tendency to slide forward because the mule doesn't have

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Speaker 1: very strong withers, which withers is an anatomical term for

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Speaker 1: basically the front shoulders and like the hump on the

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Speaker 1: neck of a horse, right right, So a horse has big, strong,

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Speaker 1: broad front shoulders. A horse is more typically has more

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Speaker 1: muscle than a mule, and they have a lot of

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Speaker 1: it up front. They have big, big hind quarters sinks

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Speaker 1: in then big front shoulders. A mule has big, nice

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Speaker 1: hind quarters and narrower front shoulders. The saddles slides forward.

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Speaker 1: You need a breech and to keep your saddle from

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Speaker 1: sliding forward.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, are these mules? Shoot? Did they?

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Speaker 1: Yes? They these mules were shod and had had ice.

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Speaker 1: I was unfamiliar with it because we don't have that here,

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Speaker 1: but they had like ice cleats. Oh really, yes, they

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Speaker 1: told me when I was originally going to bring Izzy.

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Speaker 1: So Izzy is is my nine year old mule that

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Speaker 1: that you would see on the logo of the Burger

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Speaker 1: Eas podcast. So that's the mule that I trained and

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Speaker 1: still have. When I told originally we were gonna go

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Speaker 1: out there and take our mules, Me and justin House,

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Speaker 1: my friend justin House from Arkansas, We're going to drive

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Speaker 1: out there, and uh, there was actually an equine disease

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Speaker 1: that was going around the rodeo world at that time.

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Speaker 1: An interstate travel of equine animals was in jeopardy. Like

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Speaker 1: it's possible we could have got out there and if

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Speaker 1: it had escalated, we might have had to left our

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Speaker 1: mules there or something. So we decided to fly and

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Speaker 1: to ride his mules. But when we were going to

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Speaker 1: take mine.

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Speaker 2: Which ended up being a good decision.

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Speaker 1: I think it was when we got there where he said,

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Speaker 1: when you and is he get here, we'll put these

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Speaker 1: basically snowshoes on her. Okay, like they were that serious.

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Speaker 1: They were like, you need these, wo and man when

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Speaker 1: in some of that stuff, I was very glad to

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Speaker 1: have a grippy a grippy shoe on those right mules.

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Speaker 2: Right. We had a comment on YouTube by Brooke Anderson

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Speaker 2: fourteen twenty three said, this is the most unique camera

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Speaker 2: work I've ever seen on a hunting show. Really makes

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Speaker 2: you feel like you're riding along with them. I'd love

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Speaker 2: to see more hunts on horseback film like this, And

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Speaker 2: I just want to give a quick shout out to

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Speaker 2: the camera guys.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Drew Steckline and Lauren Moulton.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they not only filmed, but they were you know,

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Speaker 2: they weren't just riding, but they were also filming, so.

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Speaker 1: They were there the whole time.

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Speaker 2: You know what.

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Speaker 1: A lot of those a lot of that riding stuff

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Speaker 1: was done with those OSMO cameras. Yeah, he's a little gimbal.

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Speaker 2: You're letting people see behind the curtain, little.

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Speaker 1: Little gimbal cameras.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty slick, pretty slick. Well, shout out to those not.

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Speaker 1: To I won't say which one, but behind this is

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Speaker 1: behind the scenes, right behind the scenes, like unplugged.

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Speaker 2: Yep, right, yeah, this like a backstone.

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Speaker 1: One of our cameras got lost. Osmo cameras got lost

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Speaker 1: underneath that lion, the first lion.

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Speaker 2: Oh really Yeah, so if you recognize that tree, if.

401
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Speaker 1: You find it out there in the Utah backcountry, let

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Speaker 1: us know.

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Speaker 2: We've got another clip here from the truck.

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Speaker 1: We went down some steep stuff that might have deterred

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Speaker 1: us if we didn't have to follow the dogs that

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Speaker 1: failed off the edge. Dogs often force your hand to

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Speaker 1: go places you wouldn't choose the strap around the back

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Speaker 1: of the mules high.

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Speaker 2: Nope, I guess that's it. So kind of help us

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Speaker 2: understand you kind of you kind of described the the

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Speaker 2: qualities of a good dry ground line dog. But when

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Speaker 2: you're running dogs, what are you trying to do? Are

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Speaker 2: you trying to maintain a certain distance from them? What's

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Speaker 2: what's that process? And you use the term of dog race,

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Speaker 2: what does that mean?

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Speaker 1: So these guys are free casting hounds, which means they

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Speaker 1: don't always know where the track is if if you well,

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Speaker 1: let me back up. Free casting hounds just means you

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Speaker 1: just turn the dogs out and have that they're just

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Speaker 1: looking for a us set. They're not on a leash,

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Speaker 1: they're just out hunting, right, And so we free cast dogs.

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Speaker 1: And they have have a ton of control over these dogs.

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Speaker 1: And I mentioned in the film you can you know,

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Speaker 1: they kind of hunt them like bird dogs. They want

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Speaker 1: them to stay fairly close. But then because when they

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Speaker 1: the dogs start running a track that they want to

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Speaker 1: be able to go over to where the dog is

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Speaker 1: barking and see if they can physically see a track.

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Speaker 1: So they don't want a dog to go three miles

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Speaker 1: in there without them and start a track that they

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Speaker 1: can't immediately go and check out. Because these dogs will

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Speaker 1: run bobcats and mountain lions and they don't A dog

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Speaker 1: is not gonna distinguish between let's say a female with

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Speaker 1: kittens and a big tom. I mean they'll run either

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00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 1: one just the same. And so if it was a

436
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: female with kittens, they would immediately pull the dogs off,

437
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 1: and they do that through just training, I mean vocal commands,

438
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 1: but they can also tone the dog, which is not

439
00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 1: shocking it, but just beeping it and getting attention of

440
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 1: the dog, and they can they can call them back

441
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: from long distance. I want to say something about that

442
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: little clip talked about how when you're following hounds, you

443
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: go places that you would have never gone otherwise. And

444
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:19,120
Speaker 1: that is a cool part of hound hunting because if

445
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 1: you were just going on a pleasure ride through all

446
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 1: those canyons that we went through, I mean, you would

447
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 1: pretty much take the easiest route, or maybe a route

448
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 1: that went by some esthetic point or something. Man, when

449
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:37,719
Speaker 1: you're following the dogs, you're you just have to go

450
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 1: where they go, right, and so you find yourself in

451
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: all kind of just places that just are off literally

452
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 1: off the beaten path. And that's what I've always liked

453
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,959
Speaker 1: about hound hunting is you know, you just get a

454
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 1: tour of the world. And that kind of goes as

455
00:25:55,880 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: well to what I was so impressed with. We would

456
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 1: be so far from the truck, Josh, yeah, and McClain

457
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: would be like, man, when we drop off in this

458
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: little canyon, we're gonna pull up and there'll be a

459
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 1: big bluff and behind that bluff is a set of

460
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 1: pine trees and that's where those cats like to mark.

461
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: The male cats like to scratch. And we're gonna go there,

462
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: and I mean we've been We're like seven miles from

463
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: the truck. And he would just have this copographic memory

464
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 1: of just every detail of the land that I mean,

465
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 1: you just wouldn't. You just wouldn't be able to have

466
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: that detailed of a map in your head without a lifetime.

467
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: And McLain's in his fifties. And but also being on

468
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: the back of a mule or horse like you just

469
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 1: you can just cover so much ground. But they also

470
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 1: elk hunting, mule deer hunt in these regions, and that's

471
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: I think that's an interesting place. We ought to go,

472
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: probably sooner rather than later. Is the the the what

473
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: the film dealt with so much, which which was lion conservation.

474
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 2: We've got that coming and we've got a lot of

475
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 2: comments about that. So but we're almost there.

476
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 1: Well, they they mule deer hunt, elk hunt this, so

477
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: I mean they just know it every possible way in

478
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: and out.

479
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, at B spoke to said this was much harder

480
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 2: before GPS dogs. He's correct, Okay, we're kind of we're

481
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 2: getting to the lion here.

482
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 1: Well, we got a lion, man. They started it way

483
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: the heck over in that other canyon, and we can

484
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: see it right up in the tree, just glowing up there.

485
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, Tom got his head and then about four inches

486
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 3: under the base of his tail will be a black

487
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 3: dot if it's a tom.

488
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 2: So we'll get up here and get a look at him.

489
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 2: And let's look at the scream. So you got that

490
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 2: first lion? How many days in was that?

491
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: That was the second day.

492
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 2: Okay, what's it like to be standing that close to

493
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 2: a full grown mountain lion?

494
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 1: Well, I noted it of just just how rare it

495
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 1: really is, Like I mean, if you're if you're a

496
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: lion hunter, it's not because you see him, you have

497
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: the dogs, but really in a natural situation without dogs,

498
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: just in a you would be very rare to be

499
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 1: that close to the line without it. Just I mean,

500
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 1: the lions are notorious for being unseen. And then in

501
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: a lot of the GPS college studies they've done, they

502
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: they see how close these lions let humans get to them,

503
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: and the lions never, you know, reveal their presence. Like, so,

504
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: a lot of people out west that live in Lyon

505
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: country that are doing a lot of bad country stuff

506
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 1: have probably been within twenty to fifty yards of many

507
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 1: lions that they never knew about, which is interesting. But no,

508
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: this line. When I first I knew we weren't gonna

509
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 1: shoot a small line, okay, And we really hadn't talked

510
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: about exactly what was acceptable.

511
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 2: You know.

512
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 1: I mean I didn't know what kind of lion. We

513
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: just knew we needed a mail for sure, in an adult,

514
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 1: you know, a full grown one. And man, when I

515
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: walked up to the tree, I was like, dang, that's

516
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: a pretty good mountain line. I mean, it had a

517
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 1: pretty big head. And but I could I could just

518
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: immediately tell well, I mean they told me, They're like, yeah,

519
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: that's like a two year old line, you know, And.

520
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 2: Did you think it was older than that?

521
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 1: I would have thought it was older than that.

522
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 2: But I have no right basis because you've you've lined

523
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 2: hunted before you took a lion.

524
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is this line weigh one hundred and twelve pounds.

525
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: Where in uh in the Panhandle of Idaho. Leon Brown

526
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: guy named Leon Brown plotman, And I mean that's technically

527
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 1: an adult. I mean, like it wasn't like still with

528
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: its mother. But this was probably a two year old

529
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: line hundred and twelve pounds, which is you know, you're

530
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: you're you're hoping to take out the big ones and

531
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 1: in the biggest lines in North America and these would

532
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: be like phantom, but would you know push two hundred pounds.

533
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 1: I mean there have been two hundred pound lines taken,

534
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: but a big tom in Utah, I would say, would

535
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: be in one hundred and fifty pound range plus or minds,

536
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: I mean like that would have been.

537
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 2: And that's what they're that's what they're looking for.

538
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: That's what they're looking for. But then again, these guys,

539
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: like I said, hunters never killed one. I mean, they're just.

540
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 2: Did he say why? Did he say why? I mean,

541
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 2: they're just like he's seen a mature cat.

542
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: I mean, well, number one, there they are outfitters, right like,

543
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 1: so they do take people that they're trying to get

544
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 1: a line. So presumably a lot of the big ones

545
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: they've they've they've treated, they had a client with them,

546
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 1: you know, so they would have shot the line. But

547
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: I get it, like it's just not that's just not

548
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 1: what they're in it for, right, Like just to to

549
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,959
Speaker 1: shoot a line just doesn't mean that much to him.

550
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 1: They'd rather let it go and treat it again, or

551
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: or someone someone else take it right. And so I thought,

552
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: I thought that was interesting and that made me feel

553
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 1: good when I passed that line, because it was hard.

554
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 1: I would have been so happy with that line. I

555
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: think it was probably bigger, you know. McLean said it

556
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: was between one hundred and ten and one hundred and

557
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: twenty pounds, and I feel like it looked quite a

558
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: bit bigger than Oh really in this one, Okay, doude.

559
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: This this hunt is on the bear Grease YouTube channel. Okay,

560
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: my lion hunt from like twenty sixteen or something, probably

561
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: ten years ago. I went up to the panhand on Idaho.

562
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: I killed that one with a traditional bow with Leon Brown.

563
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 2: So we have another another comment from YouTube. I believe

564
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 2: s three V three n D three two to lots

565
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 2: of threes. Okay, and that user name How does passing

566
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 2: on a kill affect the dogs? How do you reward

567
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 2: them and also disengage them from a successful hunt when

568
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 2: you don't understand the harvest of an animal, When you

569
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 2: don't harvest animal right.

570
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: You know what, I think it's that's a good question

571
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: because it would seem like those dogs.

572
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 2: I like how he said a successful hunt too. I

573
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 2: mean that the dogs did their job.

574
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 1: Right, right. Well, I think the reward for those dogs

575
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 1: is just to look at it, yeah, and see it

576
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: up in the tree.

577
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 2: Were you able to get them pulled off and get

578
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 2: them disengaged from that line to move on?

579
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they just call them, I mean the lead.

580
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 1: They would lead some of the younger dogs away, some

581
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: of the older dogs. They just be like, let's go

582
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: on to the next one. Okay, And now I hope

583
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: that we're as soon getting to line.

584
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 3: Man.

585
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 2: We've got one more clip. We've got one more clip

586
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 2: with a short question, and then we're getting.

587
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 1: In the line, man, because I have some insider information.

588
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 2: I love insider information.

589
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: Okay, next clip.

590
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 4: We have.

591
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: We've ridden six or seven miles from the truck, and man,

592
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: they've got that cat treed. You can see him through

593
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 1: bonos down there. I thought he might be baiting one

594
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 1: of these rocks. We got one of the guys.

595
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 2: Going to him.

596
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: We're gonna try to figure out how to get down there.

597
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 1: It looks like Tom just from the track but just

598
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 1: unbelievable country. When you come to Utah, this is where

599
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: you'd hope to tree one. I already don't like it.

600
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: Pretty sketchy getting down here, But we're gonna try to

601
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 1: look this line over. We don't We think it's probably

602
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: the same caliber line as yesterday, but we really don't know.

603
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 1: One we're gonna try to take or not.

604
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 2: So you you mentioned how steep it is and and

605
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 2: that you don't like it. Where'd that come from? Well?

606
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 1: You know, justin House was there? Hunter Hunter Meekon was there? Uh,

607
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 1: Dustin from Arizona was there. Uh, there were there were

608
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: multiple people there that went down with us, And it

609
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 1: was not that big of a deal. Like there were

610
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: parts where we had to slide right and there were

611
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 1: there was always hand holds. But I was I just

612
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 1: I was trying to just be vulnerable and honest it

613
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: it just kind of fluttered my heart, like one of

614
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 1: those flutters that you can't control. Yeah, and uh, and

615
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 1: I was just like, what is going on? Like this

616
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 1: is not even that bad? It was bad, like like

617
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 1: ty Ty Evans had cowboy boots on that day and

618
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 1: he chose not to go down because he had like

619
00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 1: slick cowboy boots and and the consequences of Allen were

620
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: were high. I mean like it was. It was just

621
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: almost straight down in several spots in snow and uh no,

622
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: it get I had, I had, I had my buddy

623
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: justin carry my gun. I can tell I was kind

624
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: of wigged out.

625
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 2: I was like, sorry, you had a pretty harrowing situation

626
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,439
Speaker 2: with your mountain mountain gun.

627
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's what I that's what I well, I

628
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,359
Speaker 1: know is part of it is. Uh yeah, we were

629
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: Me and Dirt Myth were hanging on the side of

630
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,240
Speaker 1: the cliff for two hours retrieving that goat.

631
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 2: Okay, the moment you've been waiting for, Okay, we're going

632
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 2: to talk about conservation.

633
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:43,359
Speaker 1: These these cats are I mean, they're carnivores living off

634
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: meat and they they they follow these elk herds. And

635
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: what's kind of interesting being here in Utah is that

636
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:56,359
Speaker 1: they really liberal liberalize the lion hunting. And I mean

637
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: they you can trap them, snare them you around sea

638
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 1: and don't need a tags, need a license. And you'd

639
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 1: think that the line hunters would be happy about that,

640
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 1: but they're they're not. You know, they feel like they

641
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 1: should be managed a little more conservatively, but the Game

642
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: of Fish has done it because they the mule deer

643
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 1: populations are down. They're trying to save some mule deer.

644
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 1: So you know, there's probably like two sides of it.

645
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:26,919
Speaker 1: But when you're with line hunters, they're the ones who are,

646
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 1: you know, wanting to be more conservative.

647
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:36,280
Speaker 5: But taking the beating. And you know, on we everything

648
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,479
Speaker 5: needs to be regulated, you know, every specie, but just open,

649
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 5: wide open for one specie is not going to change

650
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 5: our meal deer. Yeah, there's so many other factors. There's highways,

651
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 5: there's stroud out, there's habitat off there's so many other things.

652
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 5: And I think as humans we played more in the

653
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 5: part in hurting the mule deer. Yeah, population than those lines.

654
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 5: Are you taking area like this or there's like at

655
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 5: the elk so they keep the rodcats, the skunks, Yeah,

656
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,280
Speaker 5: all kinds of things. But it's amazing how many people

657
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 5: they take out in the hills and the first thing

658
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 5: they see some bones, it's automatically a line killed. So everything,

659
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 5: you know.

660
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 1: So the theme of the film really was the lion conservation,

661
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: and in the last year Utah has opened up mountain

662
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 1: lion hunting to to the widest gate possible. It's a

663
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 1: year round season. There's no quotas. You don't have to

664
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,320
Speaker 1: have a tag, you don't have to buy a tag

665
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 1: to hunt one. Even as a non resident, all I

666
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 1: had to do was buy a non resident hunting license

667
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 1: and it was legal for me to harvest a mountain line. Now,

668
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 1: after you killed it, you did have you do have

669
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 1: to check it and they pull a tooth and they

670
00:38:54,760 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 1: they they they gather biological data. But basically this is

671
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 1: this is my understanding of it, which is is is

672
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 1: not the full picture. But there was a time when

673
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 1: there were probably five hundred thousand mule deer in Utah, Okay,

674
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,399
Speaker 1: like in the glory days, which that would have been

675
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, fifty sixty seventies. At some

676
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 1: point in time, there were five hundred thousand mule deer

677
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 1: in Utah. With whatever is happening ecologically management wise today,

678
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 1: as to understand that they have roughly around three hundred

679
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 1: thousand mil deer okay, wow, and it's been that way

680
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:40,720
Speaker 1: for a long time. Well, Utah is a trophy elk

681
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:46,280
Speaker 1: and mule deer state big time. They also have about

682
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 1: three thousand mountain lines in two thousand and seven, twenty

683
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 1: years ago, and it's the guy I talked to believed

684
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: it was probably similar to that today. Three thousand mountain lines.

685
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 1: So that's one mountain line for every one hundred a deer. Okay,

686
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 1: and lines undoubtedly are eating deer. And when I talked

687
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 1: to uh, I talked to Chuck. Oh boy, let me.

688
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: I'm not even gonna say his name. He's a great guy.

689
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: He's helped he's worked a state agencies, knows a lot

690
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:23,919
Speaker 1: about lines. Basically, the lines typically are after the mule

691
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: deer more than the elk. And and they don't just

692
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 1: prey upon the mule deer in in uniformity, they trend

693
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 1: heavier towards males. Oh really yeah, because males are solitary,

694
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:48,839
Speaker 1: more solitary, they're traveling more, they're just more vulnerable. So

695
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 1: they're definitely eating does and fawns, but they there would

696
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,320
Speaker 1: be a higher percentage of the males that they eat.

697
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 1: And so that actually there's a biological term for it,

698
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,399
Speaker 1: but that it sounds bad for a sportsman to think

699
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 1: of of a lion killing a big trophy mule deer,

700
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:10,839
Speaker 1: but from a population level, it's actually less consequential than

701
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 1: if that lion killed a doe, Because if the lion

702
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 1: kills a doe, you're not only killing that doe, but

703
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 1: you're killing her reproduction potential for the rest of her life.

704
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 1: And so basically, when they introduced elk, the first line

705
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 1: studies in Utah were back in the nineteen sixties and

706
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 1: all the lions like exclusively ate mule deer. And it

707
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 1: was because there were hardly any elk there. They introduced

708
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 1: elk and they started taking primarily juvenile juvenile elk. Okay.

709
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:49,799
Speaker 1: But this is the most interesting thing that he said,

710
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,319
Speaker 1: is that what you really if you're thinking about mule

711
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,719
Speaker 1: deer populations, what you really have to be focused on

712
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 1: is the amount of mule deer fawns getting killed. Okay.

713
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 1: And he said, what kills a bunch of mule deer

714
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 1: fawns is coyotes?

715
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 2: Huh?

716
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 1: And so he said, he said it was it's a

717
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 1: It's very complicated, but basically it's the he believed, Chuck. Uh,

718
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 1: I gotta find Chuck's name.

719
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:22,839
Speaker 2: Hold on here, it's Chuck Bodenkirk Boden, Chuck, Mike Boden, Chuck, Mike.

720
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 1: I was calling Chuck.

721
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, Mike boden Chuck.

722
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 1: Mike Bodenchuck, He's a sorry, he's he's a consultant. Has

723
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: worked with state game agencies with UH Carnivore Management for

724
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 1: his entire career. Like super knowledgeable guy. And I'm not

725
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 1: quoting directly. I just had a conversation with with with

726
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 1: Mike today, but basically it feels like there's a lot

727
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:53,320
Speaker 1: of pressure coming from the sportsman of Utah to hammer

728
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 1: down on the Lions and UH and basically Mike Bodenchuck

729
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:01,399
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to quote him, you can ask

730
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 1: him yourself, but he doesn't think that this. He thinks

731
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,800
Speaker 1: that this is unsustainable what Utah is doing. Really he

732
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,399
Speaker 1: he I actually thought he was calling me to tell

733
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 1: me I got it wrong, because he somehow he got

734
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:15,839
Speaker 1: hooked up with him and he watched the film It's

735
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,760
Speaker 1: This Expert, and I actually thought he was going to say, Clay,

736
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: you painted this in the wrong light. This is actually

737
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:27,839
Speaker 1: good and he was like, he was like, well, he said,

738
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 1: I don't think it's sustainable, and what he The only

739
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 1: positive thing that he did say about this new rule

740
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 1: that the new regulations is that it does just open

741
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 1: up a lot of sportsman opportunity and the state agencies

742
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 1: aren't going to be killing problem lions. A sportsman could

743
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 1: actually go kill a problem line. So they do have

744
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:57,800
Speaker 1: livestock depredation in Utah. Sheep, cattle, stuff gets killed less

745
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 1: than it has been in a long time. But in

746
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 1: the past, if you had a sheep get killed by

747
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: a lion, you would call the state agency and they

748
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:10,240
Speaker 1: would send out a government hunter to come kill that line. Today,

749
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: with three hundred and sixty five day a year season,

750
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 1: you could call your buddy that's got line dogs any

751
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: day of the year and go trail a lion and

752
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 1: kill it. And you know, he said, you know that's

753
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 1: positive for sportsmen, right.

754
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 2: So the total reported harvest of mountain lions in Utah

755
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:31,320
Speaker 2: from November twenty twenty three to twenty fourth five hundred

756
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 2: and thirty.

757
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 1: Five hundred and thirty lines. Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's

758
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 1: it doesn't I mean, in some really simplistic way, you

759
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 1: would just go, well, a lion on the the that

760
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:51,320
Speaker 1: line that I passed on the second day, he's killing

761
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 1: probably a deer a week, so that's fifty two deer

762
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 1: a year, and you're like, remove that lion. You have

763
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: plus fifty two deer. Well, I think what McLain and

764
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:10,720
Speaker 1: what others are saying is that mil deer populations, even

765
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 1: thriving mile deer populations, they have natural systems built for

766
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:20,800
Speaker 1: some level of mortality, and there's a whole lot more

767
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 1: mortality coming from human induced stuff and stuff beyond our control,

768
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 1: droughts that are producing degraded habitat and just increase people

769
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:40,320
Speaker 1: in the state hitting deer on roads, hunters taking deer.

770
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 1: There's just a lot of little points, and basically the

771
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 1: lions are one data point that are taking taking deer

772
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:51,760
Speaker 1: off the landscape. And to just smash in that button

773
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 1: is to the people that I've talked to that are

774
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 1: in the know to think that that's not really helped one.

775
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 2: We've got a comment here from Joe Prutz sixty sixty three.

776
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 2: I'm sure that the game Commission knows that lions aren't

777
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 2: the only factor, but they're most likely the easiest factor

778
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 2: to control.

779
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 1: That's probably a fair statement. Yeah, and it and it's uh.

780
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 1: And the other thing is that you know how many

781
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 1: very serious lion hunters are there in the state of Utah.

782
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:26,399
Speaker 1: I don't know, a couple hundred, maybe right thousand, how

783
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 1: many serious mule deer and elk hunters are there in

784
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 1: the state of Utah A lot, hundreds of thousands, And

785
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: so it's one of these things where it may not

786
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 1: be best practice, but it's it's it just seems like

787
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 1: the easy thing. And honestly it's a philosophical question too.

788
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 1: If there were no lions in Utah, there would be

789
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 1: more mule deer, right, I mean period, Yeah. But so

790
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 1: it's like it raises the question, do we want a

791
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:02,800
Speaker 1: Utah with no mountain lions? And I think the answer

792
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty six to the modern sportsman is no.

793
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 1: We want wild landscapes with intact, trophic structure inside of

794
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 1: I mean, we want some predators on the landscape. Our

795
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 1: ability to manage those predators is essential. Take that away

796
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: from us and we're in bad trouble and we're gonna

797
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:30,879
Speaker 1: fight to the to the bare dirt to get it back.

798
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 1: But and there's places where they've done that. In California,

799
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:37,320
Speaker 1: they've completely just like taken the legs out of predator

800
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 1: management and it's it's wild over there, what's going on?

801
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 2: And just to be clear, the only way to actively

802
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:47,240
Speaker 2: hunt mountain lion would be with dogs.

803
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 1: Well, no, so this is in open landscapes like in Utah,

804
00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 1: and now there will be a lot of just happenstance hunting.

805
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 1: Like if you're elk hunting with a rifle and you

806
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:09,760
Speaker 1: see a line over there three hundred yards talking across

807
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 1: the ridge, you can shoot it legally. And so there

808
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 1: is going to be quite a bit of harvest that's

809
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:23,840
Speaker 1: going to come from just kind of by accident. There's

810
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:29,319
Speaker 1: a term I'm looking for, what's the term. Secondly, there's

811
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 1: a lot of trapping going on in Utah at A

812
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 1: lot of guys are trapping mountain lions, and so in

813
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 1: the past, pretty much the only way you would have

814
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 1: done it would have been with dogs. But now everybody

815
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 1: that's got to tag and a weapon in their hand

816
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:48,399
Speaker 1: could shoot a line. And I mean I would if

817
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 1: I was out there elk hunting and saw a big

818
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 1: mountain lion walking across the ridge.

819
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 2: Yep.

820
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 1: Oh, I mean that's that's pretty cool.

821
00:48:57,920 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, But.

822
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:06,879
Speaker 1: So what it Mike bowdenchuck he watched the film and

823
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 1: he said, Clay, your experience there in Utah was exactly

824
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 1: what I would have predicted. He said, the top end

825
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 1: of male mountain lions is gone out of.

826
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 2: Utah because of the open season.

827
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, or will be gone because year round no quota.

828
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:32,760
Speaker 1: So in the past they would have had the state

829
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 1: separated into quota quota zones for lions. So like maybe

830
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:39,759
Speaker 1: where the and I don't know this, but perhaps like

831
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:41,880
Speaker 1: where the meecums were hunting, there would have been a

832
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:46,399
Speaker 1: thirty lion quota with a with a female quota too,

833
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 1: so like maybe you could kill thirty lines, but if

834
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 1: you killed fifteen females that shut off, but you could

835
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 1: kill thirty males. So they regulated it pretty tightly. And

836
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 1: so this this is essentially going to take that top

837
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:06,919
Speaker 1: end because guys are gonna go there. Uh uh run

838
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 1: dogs and the big ones they're going to get because

839
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:12,759
Speaker 1: you can hunt them through in sixty five days a year.

840
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 1: Oh really, Oh yeah, you hunt them, hunt them every day.

841
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 2: Wow. Wow, that's a big deal.

842
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. And so he said us seeing juveniles like this

843
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:26,280
Speaker 1: or or sub adults, he said, was pretty typical. And

844
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 1: and honestly, the McLain and them and hunter you know,

845
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 1: just kind of said Clay, Probably a lot of line

846
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 1: hunters in Utah would have shot those two cats, those

847
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:40,279
Speaker 1: two males like they're just looking for you know, a

848
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:41,240
Speaker 1: grown male.

849
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 2: So a couple of other comments, Austin Sikich says, as

850
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 2: a Utah hunter, I appreciate you guys bringing awareness to

851
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 2: our backwards approach to predator management. Killing lions to help

852
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 2: mule dealers, like putting water in a grease fire. We

853
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 2: need to prioritize water and habitat, not killing lions. I

854
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 2: thought that was a good comment. Yeah, we had another

855
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 2: comment that talks about wild horses even Yeah, he says,

856
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 2: the mule deer in Utah have a lot of competition

857
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 2: for feet and water as well elk, pronghorn, and tons

858
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 2: of wild horses. I've watched a group of wild horses

859
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:22,959
Speaker 2: run a herd of deer off of a water hole

860
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:25,320
Speaker 2: and a couple a couple of years ago, those horses

861
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:27,799
Speaker 2: just hung out guarding that water like they owned it.

862
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:30,439
Speaker 2: D n R will remove every line from the state,

863
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 2: but leave the horses alone.

864
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:35,320
Speaker 1: Seems really off to me, guys bringing the heat.

865
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:44,919
Speaker 2: So anyway, it's definitely it's definitely a controversial topic. Yeah,

866
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 2: but I think that the film kind of shed some

867
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:50,759
Speaker 2: light on some good practices.

868
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 1: So I've got a quote Mike. Mike told me this

869
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 1: quote and This wasn't from him. He was quoting somebody else,

870
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 1: one of a biologist that he wants. He said, in

871
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:08,360
Speaker 1: the absence of wolves, he said, the way to save

872
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 1: elk is to reduce the amount of lead in the air. Basically,

873
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:21,880
Speaker 1: this biologist was saying, hey, well, in the absence of wolves,

874
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 1: he said, the way that you manage basically deer in

875
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 1: elk populations is by how many get killed by human hunters.

876
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 2: Well, we had another comment. Andrew Ferris two two five said,

877
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:36,920
Speaker 2: limit the mule deer tags easiest way to control.

878
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 1: And they have done that to the point that you

879
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 1: can hardly hunt mule deer in the storm. Okay, I

880
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 1: mean yeah, Like anybody that knows the draw system or

881
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:53,319
Speaker 1: has played in the draw system knows that you talked

882
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 1: some one of the hardest states to draw. It's also

883
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:56,880
Speaker 1: some of the best mule deer hunting in the country,

884
00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 1: So everybody wants to go there. But even residents don't

885
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:07,480
Speaker 1: get tags every year in good zones, typically the residents

886
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 1: get priority, like in some of the premium Western states.

887
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 1: Let's take for instance, Montana. If you're a Montana resident,

888
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 1: every year you get a general Montana elk license, which

889
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 1: means that every year you can hunt elk. You may

890
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 1: not be able to go to the premium zone, right,

891
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 1: but there's a lot of general elk zones. Okay, And

892
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 1: I mean in Arkansas. Can you imagine if we couldn't

893
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:41,479
Speaker 1: hunt deer in Turkey every year, Like if like once

894
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 1: every five years we got to deer hunt. I mean,

895
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:49,239
Speaker 1: that sounds like they'd been constitutional. Yeah, and so in Utah,

896
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:53,560
Speaker 1: and it's other places too, New Mexico and Arizona and

897
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 1: other other states. But there are plenty of places out

898
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:00,359
Speaker 1: west where even the residents have to draw a tag

899
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 1: to be able to hunt, and may not even get

900
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 1: a tag to hunt.

901
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:04,399
Speaker 2: South Dakota's like that.

902
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's like, well not hunting this year, didn't

903
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 1: get a tag. I mean to those of those of

904
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:14,360
Speaker 1: us in the East hunting deer, in turkeys and bear, that.

905
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:17,040
Speaker 2: Just sounds that is a god given right.

906
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 1: It just sounds unbelievable, but it's the reality out there,

907
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:25,840
Speaker 1: and so they are regulating the tags.

908
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 2: Okay, let's watch another clip. So that was a tom also, Yeah,

909
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 2: it was not quite as big as the other one

910
00:54:58,080 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 2: or was it similar size?

911
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:02,960
Speaker 1: It was similar size, It didn't look as big it

912
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:05,400
Speaker 1: didn't look quite as big, but it was. It was

913
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 1: a male inside of that same range. So when you're

914
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 1: dealing with servands like elker deer, you you have these

915
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 1: rut windows that produce very specific fawning times, and so

916
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 1: all the juveniles of a given year a cohort are

917
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 1: basically the same age, okay, right, With lions, it's not

918
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 1: like that, Like you know, it's not like they breed

919
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:33,240
Speaker 1: in this window and they have kittens in the spring.

920
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 1: It's not like a bear.

921
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of speculation when you see that.

922
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:39,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you might be looking at you might treat

923
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:43,719
Speaker 1: two lions that were born four months apart or five

924
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:48,399
Speaker 1: months apart, when typically in other species that have these

925
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 1: really regulated breeding windows, you would be looking at animals

926
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:55,359
Speaker 1: that would be a cohort of a year, right, like bears,

927
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:58,560
Speaker 1: Like you'd be like, that's a two year old bear,

928
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 1: three year old bear, four year old bear. Does that

929
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:01,600
Speaker 1: make sense?

930
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 2: Absolutely?

931
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:02,279
Speaker 5: Yeah?

932
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, because the breeding with the cats, as I understand

933
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:08,319
Speaker 1: that they can basically breed any time of the year, okay,

934
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:12,479
Speaker 1: just when that female comes in. I actually learned that

935
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 1: an adult female lion is basically constantly pregnant or with

936
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:24,720
Speaker 1: kittens her entire life. Once she reaches sexual maturity. Wow,

937
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:29,920
Speaker 1: she's either pregnant or nursing or rearing kittens.

938
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 2: Now do you know will they typically have a litter

939
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:33,920
Speaker 2: of kittens? I mean, will they have multiples?

940
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:37,920
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, I I'm not a line expert. You know

941
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:41,279
Speaker 1: who was Teddy Roosevelt? Be nice to hear of him?

942
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:42,279
Speaker 2: Up? He was.

943
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 1: He was the premiere lion mountain Lion guy in America

944
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:49,200
Speaker 1: in the early nineteen hundred.

945
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:51,320
Speaker 2: He'll see if Steven Alla has his phone number.

946
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 1: Yeah no, but I'm they have like two kittens, okay,

947
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:59,439
Speaker 1: and the obviously could have three or four, Sure could

948
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 1: have one, but typically too kind of like bears.

949
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 6: Okay, let's look at this last clip here, Oh yeah.

950
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:22,240
Speaker 1: Right here that.

951
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:28,360
Speaker 4: All these dogs went the wrong word. This dog stayed

952
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:35,760
Speaker 4: well over here for several hours. This little female he

953
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 4: was the reason we got this cat.

954
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:43,280
Speaker 2: This guy right here, So you you that was obviously

955
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 2: a female. Is there a term for a female cat?

956
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 3: Yeah?

957
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 1: And I don't think we can use it on this podcast.

958
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:55,720
Speaker 2: Okay, got it, got it? Wait, never mind, So you

959
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 2: said that dog stayed treed for hours?

960
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 1: Yes? That this is again where video just doesn't really

961
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 1: allow you to tell the whole story. We started that

962
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 1: day on the track of a Magnum Tom like one

963
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 1: that we didn't think we were gonna find right and

964
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:18,600
Speaker 1: they were running it, and I mean McClain was like, hey,

965
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:22,880
Speaker 1: this might happen, and we were going into good country.

966
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 1: Every time that you're there with them there the dogs

967
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:29,880
Speaker 1: are going in the direction. They're like, well, boy, if

968
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:33,440
Speaker 1: they get over there, it's gonna be tough. Or man,

969
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:36,040
Speaker 1: if they go that way, we're in the chips. And

970
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 1: so last day, find a big track. Dogs are running

971
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 1: it and I go, we'll tell me about the direction,

972
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 1: and I think they're gonna say, oh, Clay, it's gonna

973
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 1: be really tough for them to catch that line going

974
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 1: that way. And they go, this is great, this is fantastic.

975
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:57,240
Speaker 1: They're going the right way. And it's like mid morning,

976
00:58:57,480 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 1: so we got plenty of time. A lot of times

977
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:02,360
Speaker 1: you just run out of daylight. You just you just

978
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:04,280
Speaker 1: trail it, trail it, trail it, trail it, and it

979
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:06,240
Speaker 1: gets dark and your dogs are still running. You got

980
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:09,320
Speaker 1: to call them off. And so it's it's mid morning.

981
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:13,240
Speaker 1: We're running a big line track, bigger than the ones

982
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:16,680
Speaker 1: like they were like, you'll you'll shoot this one, Clay,

983
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:20,520
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, that was the idea. And as

984
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:24,440
Speaker 1: we're going, we're like seeing the lions tracks and the dogs.

985
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:26,080
Speaker 2: And you can tell it's big because of a big

986
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 2: track just and the distance between the steps. R.

987
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:32,920
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, they they can just glance at the track

988
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:36,160
Speaker 1: and like tell you the you know what that dude

989
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:39,520
Speaker 1: had for breakfast, you know, I mean, it's unbelievable. And

990
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 1: so as we're going, it was like fate and we

991
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 1: couldn't show it in the film. It just it just

992
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 1: was too already capture a female crossed that lion's the

993
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:59,520
Speaker 1: big lions track and uh and the dogs turned and

994
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:04,480
Speaker 1: I think actually might have gone backwards on the female,

995
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:10,920
Speaker 1: even the best dogs in the world, but Whalon broke

996
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 1: off and just drifted into no man's land. And so

997
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:21,200
Speaker 1: we actually followed the dogs and McLain immediately smelled a rat.

998
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:24,680
Speaker 1: He was like, something's wrong. He's like, they're not doing

999
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 1: it right. And then he sees the female track and

1000
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:29,280
Speaker 1: sees they went the wrong way, and we spent a

1001
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:34,919
Speaker 1: bunch of time going down to them, and Dustin from

1002
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:38,600
Speaker 1: Arizona was with us, Dustin Clark, and he looks at

1003
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:44,200
Speaker 1: his garment and he says, mclan whalon is like two

1004
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:48,960
Speaker 1: miles away showing treat and we were we thought maybe

1005
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:52,080
Speaker 1: it was an error on the GPS. Who it just

1006
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 1: the likelihood of this dog treeing the line by himself.

1007
01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 1: And I was like, was it a good dog? And

1008
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:00,680
Speaker 1: Dustin's like, man, it's one of my best I was

1009
01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 1: like really, It was like, do you think it's treated?

1010
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 1: And he said he was like, who knows. I think

1011
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:10,080
Speaker 1: he wanted to it's treating that he was being. He

1012
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:13,120
Speaker 1: was being reasonable, and it's like hard to say, well,

1013
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:17,120
Speaker 1: the dog is so far away that we almost didn't

1014
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 1: go to it. I mean, that's what it felt like.

1015
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:23,080
Speaker 1: But we finally get the dogs gathered back up from

1016
01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:28,840
Speaker 1: kind of going the wrong way on this track, and

1017
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 1: I remember it was late in the afternoon and we

1018
01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 1: could have it would have been way easier to just

1019
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:35,440
Speaker 1: go back to the truck, and McLean said, what do

1020
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:37,040
Speaker 1: you want to do? And I was like, well, I

1021
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:40,600
Speaker 1: want to go see what that dog's got. I want

1022
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:43,120
Speaker 1: to keep going, and he said okay, and so we

1023
01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:50,440
Speaker 1: head off and go on a multi mile very treacherous

1024
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:53,400
Speaker 1: you know, like up this canyon and across and down

1025
01:01:53,600 --> 01:01:57,960
Speaker 1: and back up, and the dogs still treated. And we

1026
01:01:58,080 --> 01:02:02,560
Speaker 1: think it's possible that it's got that big male treat.

1027
01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:06,920
Speaker 1: It's possible. Yeah, that's what I thought. Anyway, these guys

1028
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:09,480
Speaker 1: were looking at their garments and I think they kind

1029
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 1: of had it figured out what had happened. They just

1030
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:13,760
Speaker 1: it's like they're playing chess and I'm just kind of

1031
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:16,720
Speaker 1: like watching the game board, don't really know exactly what's

1032
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:21,080
Speaker 1: going on. And when we got to about one hundred

1033
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:23,280
Speaker 1: and two hundred yards from the tree, we could hear

1034
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:26,080
Speaker 1: the dogs. By this time, all the other dogs went

1035
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:30,440
Speaker 1: to join Whalen, that English red and so that you know,

1036
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:32,479
Speaker 1: all the dogs are going, and we know they've got

1037
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:35,960
Speaker 1: a lion tread. And McLain is like, I think it's

1038
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:39,439
Speaker 1: that female. And so we get down there and sure enough,

1039
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:42,400
Speaker 1: and when you look at her in the tree, you

1040
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:46,760
Speaker 1: can see how slender she is. I mean, she actually

1041
01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:51,560
Speaker 1: has a feminine kind of face, you know what I mean,

1042
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:56,680
Speaker 1: just like the lines on smaller head, smaller feet. She

1043
01:02:56,840 --> 01:02:59,160
Speaker 1: was very nervous. Those males would just sit up in

1044
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:00,160
Speaker 1: the tree and just kind of them.

1045
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:03,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, they seemed the tom seemed unfazed.

1046
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:06,200
Speaker 1: They were just they were just sitting up there, just

1047
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:10,160
Speaker 1: they didn't care. That female was just constantly on edge,

1048
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:12,560
Speaker 1: just kind of act like she and she ended up jumping.

1049
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:13,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, did.

1050
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:16,080
Speaker 1: The dogs chase her when she Yeah, we we tried

1051
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:18,680
Speaker 1: to catch most of the dogs back, you know, but

1052
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:23,520
Speaker 1: they actually, yeah, they actually chased her and treat her

1053
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:25,440
Speaker 1: just like one hundred yards away. And then we gathered

1054
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 1: up all the dogs and took out.

1055
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:29,640
Speaker 2: And you said, you know, this animal is legal to take,

1056
01:03:29,640 --> 01:03:31,640
Speaker 2: but we're not gonna yep, And I think I think

1057
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:34,080
Speaker 2: you've covered it well enough. It just just to be clear,

1058
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:36,840
Speaker 2: you wouldn't take a female, because.

1059
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:40,840
Speaker 1: So the only lion that is illegal to take in

1060
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:46,400
Speaker 1: the current structure is you cannot shoot a female with kittens.

1061
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:51,440
Speaker 1: And typically a female is gonna tree with her kittens, okay,

1062
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:53,640
Speaker 1: if she's got kittens. That's the way I understand it.

1063
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 1: And and in lion hunters in general are not gonna

1064
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:00,520
Speaker 1: shoot a female. I mean, they're just it's kind of

1065
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:02,440
Speaker 1: the code of the West.

1066
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:05,240
Speaker 2: Because, like you said, the reproductive potential of that cat.

1067
01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:08,960
Speaker 1: Right, and in most places there's the quotas, the female quotas,

1068
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:12,400
Speaker 1: and there has been so I mean, these these regulations

1069
01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:15,400
Speaker 1: create culture inside the states, and so there's been female

1070
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:18,920
Speaker 1: quotas all over the place. So for generations it's been

1071
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:22,160
Speaker 1: not okay to shoot a female, or you know, you

1072
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:24,080
Speaker 1: kind of get I mean, people do because the female

1073
01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:27,360
Speaker 1: quotas get met, right, But it's like, don't shoot a female.

1074
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:29,560
Speaker 1: I mean the guys that are serious pretty much are

1075
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:31,960
Speaker 1: saying that there will be exceptions. I mean, maybe you're

1076
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:34,720
Speaker 1: with a kid, or maybe you have some reason to

1077
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:36,960
Speaker 1: want to take in the whole female, and I don't

1078
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:40,040
Speaker 1: that could happen and be legit, but in general, guys

1079
01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:40,800
Speaker 1: are after the males.

1080
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:47,160
Speaker 2: Sure. Okay, last question, So looking back, you decided to

1081
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:50,440
Speaker 2: pass that first cat. Yes, if you had to do

1082
01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:52,880
Speaker 2: it again, would you change your mind?

1083
01:04:53,320 --> 01:04:57,040
Speaker 1: Well, no, I would do it just the same. But

1084
01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:01,720
Speaker 1: would I have liked to have taken that cat? Yeah?

1085
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:07,800
Speaker 1: If if I had, If I wasn't with these guys

1086
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:13,200
Speaker 1: that were so knowledgeable and I respected so much and

1087
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:18,160
Speaker 1: had such strong opinions on the deal, I mean I

1088
01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:20,520
Speaker 1: could see a scenario where I was with different people

1089
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:22,560
Speaker 1: that would have just been like, shoot that one man,

1090
01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:24,840
Speaker 1: that's the best one we're gonna get. This is awesome.

1091
01:05:25,160 --> 01:05:29,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I think to a lot of people, to

1092
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:31,640
Speaker 1: a lot of line hunters, that would have been like,

1093
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:35,600
Speaker 1: what you the best of what you expected? You understand?

1094
01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:40,840
Speaker 1: I mean so, but again, you're you're a product of

1095
01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:43,080
Speaker 1: the context that you're in. And I was these people's guest,

1096
01:05:43,160 --> 01:05:46,440
Speaker 1: and they told me Hunter, Yeah, what's not on film

1097
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:49,600
Speaker 1: is that Hunter and McLain both were like, Clay, take

1098
01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:53,320
Speaker 1: that shoot that cat. They were like, do what you want.

1099
01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:58,640
Speaker 1: I mean, and yeah, I mean they were They were like, yeah,

1100
01:05:58,640 --> 01:06:01,200
Speaker 1: if you want to shoot that cat, you can, right,

1101
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:05,400
Speaker 1: I mean, it's legal. Like they know what's happening, and

1102
01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:08,720
Speaker 1: I think they knew that the chances of us treating

1103
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:13,840
Speaker 1: a bigger one were slim slim. Yeah, and so uh

1104
01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:19,200
Speaker 1: but I could tell they they they didn't. I mean

1105
01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:21,480
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't want to put the blame on them.

1106
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:24,360
Speaker 1: I made the decision, sure, because I mean they told

1107
01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:26,840
Speaker 1: McClain told me. He was like, you do whatever you want.

1108
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:30,800
Speaker 2: But I was like, kind of taking your cues from

1109
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:31,320
Speaker 2: him one.

1110
01:06:31,240 --> 01:06:35,040
Speaker 1: Hundred percent, which I would. I think, you know, somebody

1111
01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:37,520
Speaker 1: new to hunting or I mean, that's what you do,

1112
01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:41,040
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, when you're with people, you know,

1113
01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:44,640
Speaker 1: I guess other parts of life are like this, But

1114
01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:49,040
Speaker 1: in the hunting world, I feel like there's this hierarchy

1115
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:52,440
Speaker 1: of knowledge kind of on any hunt, and there's usually

1116
01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:58,840
Speaker 1: somebody that's the de facto leader, just based upon their experience,

1117
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:02,000
Speaker 1: the respect they have with the group, and I mean

1118
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:05,800
Speaker 1: I kind of typically we kind of hat tip to

1119
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:09,000
Speaker 1: the to the leader, right, you know, well.

1120
01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:11,480
Speaker 2: They've got a long history and legacy in that region

1121
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:14,920
Speaker 2: for what they do. Yeah, well great, that's all the

1122
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:15,760
Speaker 2: questions I've got.

1123
01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:20,080
Speaker 1: Man, I thank you guys so much for watching Meat

1124
01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:24,320
Speaker 1: Eaters twelve and twenty six. We've got ten more films

1125
01:07:24,360 --> 01:07:27,480
Speaker 1: coming out this year. Two of them will be with

1126
01:07:27,560 --> 01:07:32,280
Speaker 1: me and Bear John and the rest of the team,

1127
01:07:32,480 --> 01:07:36,720
Speaker 1: I mean, Brent Scott, some Yiannis has more. There's a

1128
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:40,040
Speaker 1: bunch of really great films that are coming out. And

1129
01:07:40,520 --> 01:07:43,720
Speaker 1: there was a little bit of a snaff foo on

1130
01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:47,080
Speaker 1: the release of this one. For the first five hours

1131
01:07:47,160 --> 01:07:50,040
Speaker 1: that this line film was out, we actually had the

1132
01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:52,680
Speaker 1: wrong version of the film up on YouTube, so we

1133
01:07:54,040 --> 01:07:58,160
Speaker 1: replaced it late on the first night. It's kind of

1134
01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:01,120
Speaker 1: a bummer, Yeah, that happened. But the current film that's

1135
01:08:01,240 --> 01:08:03,800
Speaker 1: up is the is the one to watch. If you

1136
01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:06,880
Speaker 1: watched it in the first five hours you would have

1137
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:10,960
Speaker 1: seen a film with no narration. And I mean I

1138
01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:12,439
Speaker 1: watched part of it.

1139
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:12,800
Speaker 2: So did you.

1140
01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:15,440
Speaker 1: I mean it kind of made sense. Yeah, it was

1141
01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:18,960
Speaker 1: just kind of odd, long musical pauses.

1142
01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:22,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, you kind of fill in the blanks with your emotions.

1143
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:25,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. I had a couple of people

1144
01:08:27,520 --> 01:08:30,200
Speaker 1: be like, they were like, man, that was awesome, and

1145
01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 1: I was like, maybe I shouldn't talk, but no, it

1146
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:37,760
Speaker 1: means it means the world does that. Everybody watches what

1147
01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:40,160
Speaker 1: we do. I mean, we would never take that for granted,

1148
01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:46,240
Speaker 1: and and and just what I mean, every time I

1149
01:08:46,280 --> 01:08:49,120
Speaker 1: relive some of these moments, I mean, I'm just grateful

1150
01:08:49,320 --> 01:08:52,040
Speaker 1: to be an American sportsman and I want to be responsible.

1151
01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:54,720
Speaker 1: I want to be knowledgeable, I want to be ethical.

1152
01:08:54,960 --> 01:08:58,559
Speaker 1: I want to to steward this opportunity that we have

1153
01:08:58,760 --> 01:09:02,200
Speaker 1: in modern times to be the caretakers of wildlife and

1154
01:09:02,240 --> 01:09:06,639
Speaker 1: wild places and the culture of American hunting, which is deeply,

1155
01:09:07,720 --> 01:09:14,320
Speaker 1: deeply part of our national identity, which we just have

1156
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:17,519
Speaker 1: to foster in the coming days because you know, I

1157
01:09:17,560 --> 01:09:21,800
Speaker 1: think I think hunting and being actively engaged in while

1158
01:09:21,880 --> 01:09:28,240
Speaker 1: in wild places is it's good for society. It's good.

1159
01:09:28,280 --> 01:09:32,880
Speaker 1: You know, Teddy Roosevelt believed, you know, his strenuous life doctrine.

1160
01:09:33,240 --> 01:09:38,439
Speaker 1: He believed that, uh that to to go and test

1161
01:09:38,479 --> 01:09:43,320
Speaker 1: yourself in the in the wilds was essential to the

1162
01:09:43,439 --> 01:09:48,439
Speaker 1: national character, you know, And I think there's part of

1163
01:09:48,439 --> 01:09:51,400
Speaker 1: that that's that's probably true. Not everybody in the world

1164
01:09:51,520 --> 01:09:53,840
Speaker 1: gets to do what we do. And whether it's going

1165
01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:59,240
Speaker 1: turkey hunting in your backyard or going on a lion

1166
01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:03,240
Speaker 1: hunting utah or an el khunt, whatever version of your

1167
01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:08,040
Speaker 1: excursion into the wild, whatever version that is, is awesome,

1168
01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:10,479
Speaker 1: whether you're squirrel hunting or small game hunting or white

1169
01:10:10,520 --> 01:10:13,960
Speaker 1: tail hunting. And I'll never we get to do some

1170
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:18,760
Speaker 1: cool stuff, and I realize we're kind of anomalies in

1171
01:10:18,760 --> 01:10:22,400
Speaker 1: a way, kind of propped up by I mean, this

1172
01:10:22,439 --> 01:10:25,759
Speaker 1: is my job working for Meat Eater, so I realize

1173
01:10:25,800 --> 01:10:28,040
Speaker 1: I get to see a lot of cool things. But

1174
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:31,599
Speaker 1: my favorite things in the world to do are right

1175
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:35,439
Speaker 1: here within thirty minute drive in my house. And that's

1176
01:10:35,439 --> 01:10:40,680
Speaker 1: the truth. So thank you so much for watching this

1177
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:45,040
Speaker 1: twelve and twenty six podcast. The companion series to Meat

1178
01:10:45,040 --> 01:10:53,800
Speaker 1: Eaters twelve and twenty six films