WEBVTT - Our Two Dads: A Personal Look at How (Some) Boomers Use ETFs 0:00:06.760 --> 0:00:09.799 Welcome to Drugs. I'm Joel Webber and I'm Eric bel Tunis, 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:13.400 and were about to talk to a lot of people 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:16.720 this year, but we haven't made things personal. And it's 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:19.480 the holidays, so we're gonna make it personal. I'd like 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:21.360 you to meet my dad, and I'd like you to 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:24.279 meet my dad. Okay, so this already happened. We brought 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:27.360 the dad's in separately and we got to interview them. 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:29.360 One thing for both of us, I think is that 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:31.680 we've learned a little bit about money and investing through 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:34.480 our dads. Yeah. I mean the way you learn about 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:36.599 a lot is through your parents. I've learned a lot 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:39.519 from both my mom and my dad, and my dad 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:42.800 in particular, uh, in the financial side. I definitely picked 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:44.600 up some things from him, not all that I applied, 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:47.240 which is a good thing, as we're about to find out. Yeah, 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:49.279 but obviously, like we work at a media company and 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:52.600 we're writing about, you know, how to invest stories about investment. 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:54.480 But you know, a lot of stuff you get in 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:57.760 life is from your immediate family. And uh, sometimes I'll 0:00:57.800 --> 0:00:59.320 say something and I'm like, oh my god, that's my 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:01.840 dad talking. It can be both good and more and 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:04.440 more and more as you get absolutely, So what's interesting 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:08.000 is that they are almost polar opposites. They're like yin 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:11.160 into each other's yang. Yes, I think that's a good assessment, 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:14.319 which is good for this because we get two different 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:18.280 sort of perspectives from that generation speaking, which these guys 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:21.520 are baby boomers. Yeah, that's right. And there's a lot 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:22.960 of E t F studies that come up from I 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:25.160 Shares and Schwab and they break down E t F 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:27.760 usage by generation. And I've always found it interesting that 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:31.520 the Boomers are the generation least likely to use ets. 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:34.760 So the latest SWAB survey has of them. I think 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:38.160 ETFs are a good choice for the portfolio, whereas millennials 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:40.960 that numbers about double. Then you go Gen X and 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:43.720 then the Silvers are actually more users than the boomers. 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:46.920 So the boomers, that's another reason they're kind of fascinating 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:50.280 is that they probably have a lot of their money 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:52.920 in mutual funds and they've built up the wealth. Maybe 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:54.800 they don't want the capital gains, but they're certainly the 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:58.680 generation that uses them the least. They've also seen a lot, right, 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:01.080 and this year has been an interesting one, you know, 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:03.480 we've had we've been on this epic bowl market and 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:06.560 this year things changed. Yeah, that's right. And I mean 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:08.680 I gotta say, look, the market as of right now 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:11.359 is down four percent this year. It's not that big 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:13.920 of a deal. It just look, if you're walking around 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:17.040 Utopia for like eight years and you stub your toe, 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:19.440 it seems like the worst thing on earth. So it's 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:21.239 not that bad of a year. The market is still 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:24.800 up around two since the Great Financial Crisis. But our 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:27.600 dads have seen a lot. They saw interest rate spike 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:30.400 up to unguidly levels in the eighties. Uh, they saw 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:32.239 the nineties they used go go back this so the 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:35.160 oil crisis, and back in the seventies. They've seen the 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:38.799 Internet bubble. So perspective, absolutely, perspective is really key, I 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:43.960 think to investing and in life. This time on trillions 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:50.120 are two dads. Okay, ken, I've never met you. Who 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:55.200 are you. I'm a old, washed up highway paving contractor 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:59.640 that worked in um about forty of the United States, 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:03.280 believe it or not, paving rural highways in places like 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:07.919 North Carolina, Arkansas, Colorado, and um here. I'm at the 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:11.400 opposite end of the world in uptown midtown Manhattan. Well 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:14.560 welcome and thank you for keeping our highways in such 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:17.040 good condition, some of them, some of them. Right, He's 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:19.120 why I moved every two years. People say, are you 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:21.240 a military brat? I know I'm a highway paving brat. 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:23.400 So I have a personal question for you, which is 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:27.160 when did um the letters E T F come out 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:30.200 of Eric's mouth for the first time? Um, I guess 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:32.720 when he got involved with them, which in my memory 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:36.840 like a drug only about ten years ago? Yeah, when 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:39.560 did L first? It was before that he was just 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:42.160 you know, hiding it under the pillow for him. It 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:45.440 was the Sergeant Pepper's album, I'm sure, But no, when 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:48.040 I mean, I know when, when was it? I'm curious about. 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:51.200 To me, it seems like your involvement with him is 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:52.760 the first time I ever heard of him, and that 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:55.400 would be about ten years ago, even though I think 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:58.320 you've been with Bloomberg close to twenty. That's a great twelve. 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:00.320 I got him in two thousand and six seven. So 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:02.760 there you go, and it was like a drug gateway truck. 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:06.440 Then look at you now, So did you know about 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:09.720 et F before that? No? Can you describe sort of 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:15.520 how you view yourself as an investor? Uh, with no discipline, 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:21.000 pretty radical, like a gambler. And I started when I 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:24.760 was thirteen. I got my first job and I saved 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:28.680 six hundred dollars during the summer. At that's great. It's 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:33.880 fifty seven years ago. So my mother and father didn't 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:37.760 know anything about money or investing or anything. So I, 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:41.880 I don't know why, but I did from the newspaper. 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:45.440 And I wanted to buy this little company called s O, 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:48.840 which is that then became Exxon, and back then it 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:51.560 was standard oil in New Jersey. And I had six 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:55.040 hundred bucks. So we went to see a I guess 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:57.919 you call him a stockbroker and lo and behold if 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:01.440 he didn't my mother knew nothing, and he convinced my 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:04.520 mother to convince me to buy some stupid mutual fund. 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:08.719 So I bought stupid mutual fund. Ten years later, at 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:12.000 twenty three, I went to buy my first house. I 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:17.120 sold the mutual fund for six hundred dollars. Right, the 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:21.680 s O was now worth twenty seven thousand. The house 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:25.160 I was buying was twenty nine. That right, there is 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:27.520 why funds are in trouble. This is not a guy 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:32.920 that sounds like he helped create Eric baltunas well. The 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:36.800 story is crazy though. That mutual fund obviously sucked. It 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:39.080 took all you know, to have to make no money 0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:41.039 in a time when when a energy stock goes up 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:43.920 that much. This is why people soured. That was a 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:47.280 long time ago, so you can imagine how how in 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:50.040 trouble mutual funds are if people have had those experiences. 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:51.880 But but you also did talk about how you did 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:55.000 use mutual funds for things like my college, and they 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:58.680 did work right again, I created you, um when I 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:02.960 was twenty five. So after after I lost all that 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:06.680 money on what would have been Exxon, I got back 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:10.320 into mutual funds as a matter of a conservative investment 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:15.000 for your college. Well you were zero or one, so 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:19.400 I thought mutual funds with to three percent compounded annually 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:23.320 reinvest the dividend was a conservative and good way to go, 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:26.720 and and it was. It was through the Jimmy Carter years. 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:31.080 They were absolutely fantastic, and I ended up sending you 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:36.760 and to step siblings of yours to college, all paid 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:39.800 for and by the time the third one graduated, I 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:42.160 had no money left. But that was the plan of 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:46.560 the mutual funds. So I have you know, ambivalent experience, 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:48.240 And did you ever put you know, that money on 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:50.600 the roulette again for trying to buy that single stock 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:53.960 like you thought you messed with. Yeah, then I took 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:57.720 about I reckon a decade off. I don't know what 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:02.280 I did, but in about two thousand and eight and 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:06.239 early part of two thousand nine, my company went away 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:09.960 and I got my initial investment in that company back, 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:13.040 and my mother died and I got some inheritance from her. 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:17.600 I took all the money because I quote unquote didn't 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:20.559 need it. I was, you know, okay, And I bought 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:25.320 uh straight stocks because it was the low bottom of 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:29.480 the of the bowl man. It was I was telling Eric, 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:33.680 CBS was five dollars, a T T was nine, all 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:35.400 kinds of money just to throw it. It was just 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:40.120 so I bought everything, and in I don't know when 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:43.000 the boom was, but five seven years later my money 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:45.920 had more than doubled, and it was just wonderful. So 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:50.080 then I became like a degenerate gambler and quickly lost, 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:57.360 quickly gave back all my gain. But but luckily, unlikely 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:01.640 degenerate gambler, I stopped short of the you know, the 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:05.560 breadline and took the exact amount of money that I 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:08.760 came into an oh eight oh nine, which like I said, 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:13.280 had doubled then halved, and said, the heck with this 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:16.480 and this, by the way, it only happened two years ago. 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:21.600 Two years ago, I was doing three to five trades 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:25.560 a week. Now this year and I've done three trades 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:30.520 this year, and I took all the that's the hard way, 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:32.679 but I had the brains to get out. And all 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:39.559 I bought since then was British Petroleum Shell, some great 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:45.200 company that I got lucky with Williams Partners. They doubled 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:49.040 and they paid like eight percent yield and uh and 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:51.280 a T and T. So I put all my money 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:53.760 just to get yield because I didn't want to see 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:56.480 that next day go away. And now I don't even 0:08:56.559 --> 0:09:01.120 have to watch the tickers saw on TV during the 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:04.680 daytime because I'm pretty safe, although I try to watch 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:09.600 the Bloomberg Network every chance I get. And let's talk 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:11.959 about this situation that happened a while ago where he 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:16.400 you called me one time and you said, listen, I 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:19.320 think the market's going to go to hell. What will 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:21.800 give me the most return if I think that? So 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:24.880 I said, and believe me. I had all late, all 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:27.000 kind of warnings down and I said, if you think 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:28.680 it's going to go to hell in a couple of days, 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:32.360 you can use t vix. This is the double leveraged vix. 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:35.120 But you have to use a short term. Your opinion 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:36.199 has to be it's going to go to hell in 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:37.599 a couple of days or a week, and then you 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:39.719 got to get out if it doesn't or does, so 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:42.600 talk about your experience with this is a red light product. 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:45.000 Oh that in our traffic light system. This is hard read. 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:48.480 It's equivalent of an NC seventeen rating of a movie. 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:51.400 And you use it. Talk about your actually, you know, 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:54.720 technically played with power tools for a living, So that's true. 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:56.840 And I did. I gave him all the warning labels, 0:09:56.840 --> 0:09:58.640 you know, I sold him the chainsaw and stood there 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:00.480 and told him everything that can go ken. What did 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:07.079 you do? Um everything? I shouldn't have disobeyed all the 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:10.439 good advice, disobeyed the warning sides and went in. But 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:13.400 it was a little bit of mad money over the 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:17.840 next stag money. So anyway, it's all gone. And uh, 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:21.679 t vix just wiped me out three different times. That's 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:24.600 how stupid I am. Three and so. Talk about one 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:26.280 of those times that you thought the market was going 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:28.680 to tank and it didn't. What happened? Yeah, I had 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:32.400 um some mad money and when the election of Hillary 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:36.719 Clinton against um Mr Trump occurred, I was positive that 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:39.840 Hillary Clinton would win and in my view, the stock 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:44.480 market would tank with her victory. And anyway, that was 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:47.079 my view, So I loaded up on t VIX. The 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:52.000 rest is history. Next monthly, what we need to do 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:53.920 is have him on TV telling you what to do 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:56.199 and then do the exact option. We need an inverse, Kenny, 0:10:58.120 --> 0:10:59.920 So we did okay with the energy stocks. I don't 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:06.280 that could be a ticker, can I have? I have 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:10.000 a friend who gives me recommendations on college football and 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:14.240 I bet the opposite I win. Someone could this could 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:17.200 be a lucrative product, And you know you bring up 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:19.800 college football and gambling like talk a little bit about 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:24.880 that aspect of do you find similarities between betting on 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:28.840 sports and the market. Absolutely, to me, it's all a gamble, 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:33.120 except for like I said recently, a conservative and went 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:36.160 with these oil and m A T and T. But 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:39.680 any time you've been on a football game, where baseball game, 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:42.160 or go to Vegas in my view, you have to 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:45.600 be prepared to lose your budget, you know, and when 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:47.880 you lose your budget, you go home, you quit gambling. 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:50.720 Well that's what I did with a lot of stocks, 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:55.400 and UM lost most of the time. That's an untraditional 0:11:55.480 --> 0:12:02.960 way of thinking about investing. How do you feel about 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:05.480 E T F? I think, from my limited knowledge, which 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:09.400 is through Eric, it's a great product because they, as 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:12.920 he always says, the expense ratio is good and low. 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:15.720 But the other thing about him that makes them logical 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:18.439 to me, even though I don't have any except for 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:21.280 the dreaded t VIX, which, by the way, keeps flitting 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:24.680 it one to ten, not ten to one, one to ten, 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:27.040 then it does it again, So I think I'm down 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:30.280 to like one to five hundred, So I think I 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:35.439 have five shares of I'm gonna get fill aid for 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:37.880 being the E t F analyst who recommended his dad 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:41.240 used t vix. It's probably it's the worst possible thing 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:43.160 that I could be known for. However, you can redeem 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:46.240 yourself with kidnex. Well, no, at least this is good 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:49.199 for posterity. Now everybody knows that this guy learned the 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:51.760 hard way. Happens to my dad but again, I want 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:53.760 to make it clear. I did give over all of 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:56.240 the warnings and I said hold it for a week. 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:01.439 When when you buy t VX by a shop through 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:04.719 Charles Schwab, they say in the beginning, this is a 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:08.240 this is a scary thing you're buying, Mr. Are you sure? 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:11.640 You honestly and you're like yes, yes, yes. Three times 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:14.240 you have to say I want to commit suicide. I 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:17.400 really want to commit suicide. Yes, I'm gonna jump off 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:20.680 this bridge. So but they warn you that's how crazy 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:23.839 you do is. So let's uh forget t VIX and 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:26.720 just talk E t F It seems like a great concept, 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:30.480 the way they combine, like a country, you know, Vietnam 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:34.760 et f UM, I mean all of like diversification, we 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:37.640 get all thirty stocks at once. Do you step back everyone, 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:40.360 look at your portfolio and say, you know, I mean 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:42.800 this much in equities and this much in bonds or 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:47.440 are you just playing it based on on feel the ladder? 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:50.160 And you don't have an advisor? Do you? No? Any 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:53.959 time I ever had an advisor, I got killed, including 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:57.760 that first time. Yeah, the first time. Yeah, I've had 0:13:57.920 --> 0:13:59.719 bad taste, I've had two or three and then my 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:03.120 my only son told me to buy t VIX just kidding. 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:10.240 Uh yeah, that's for letting me go sledding backwards downhill. 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:12.400 And when I hit the tree and almost died, I 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:16.560 remember even to get rid of the kids. One other 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:18.600 question I had, and because when I see my dad, 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:21.320 I sometimes recount my childhood in the eighties, and I 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:24.760 remember how much fun I had. And also, you know, 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:26.800 obviously we have a lot of eighty references. We have 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:29.600 a fond memories of that decade. When I work with 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:32.160 our rate strategist, Ira, you know, he'll show me a 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:33.800 chart of the ten year yield. I know where you're 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:36.200 going with this, Like it was. You know, it's a 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:40.960 different world right in the eighties, and we don't remember 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:45.560 we were kids running around watching yeah, playing outside. Uh 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:49.520 what was that like? Did you know how abnormal it was? 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:51.800 Because if you go back a hundred years, it was abnormal. 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:53.800 And what do you think of versus today? Is it 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:56.280 crazy you can't get more than say two or three 0:14:56.280 --> 0:15:00.520 percent from a treasury bond by comparison you of course, 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:04.080 but back in that era, remember that was a double 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:09.040 edged sword. Everything was yielding and going up through the roof. 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:11.400 But so was interest rates. So if you had to 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:14.880 buy a house, you were commonly paying twelve percent for 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:18.880 your loan, even fourteen. And I had I've always worked 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:23.600 for companies owned by foreigners for some reason, and Arabs, 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:27.480 Germans and Englishmen, and they always said when that era came, 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:30.720 they said, Oh, America's finally catching up to the rest 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:34.560 of the world. That's reality. So where they were from 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:39.320 borrowing money was more than ten percent for a long time, 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:43.000 which you know, as Americans, we we we didn't know that. 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:50.320 I didn't know that. Some people call this bull market 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:52.560 the most hated bull market ever because the Fed got in. 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:54.600 People think it's a little bit set up from like 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:58.200 the Fed providing sugar to the market. Does this one 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:02.160 feel you know, stocks are up at two roughly? Does 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:05.760 this one feel less legitimate than say the eighties or 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:07.840 the two thousand or the you know nineties, to you know, 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:14.600 to me, yes, but only because I'm older, less optimistic, 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:17.840 been through some crashes, you know what I mean. It 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:21.680 just feels like this can't go on. So I'm curious, now, 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:24.800 how old are you can uh? Next birthday seventy So 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:27.120 when you look out over the next you know, a 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:29.760 couple of decades of your life, we hope. How are 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:34.040 you preparing for that? Financially? Just hoping to um break even. 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:38.640 And I don't care if I use up nest egg money, 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:41.880 you know, it's that's what it's for. Um. So I 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:45.840 feel like, as they say, where I come from, I'm 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:50.560 in tall cotton, tall cotton, all right, tall cotton with 0:16:51.400 --> 0:17:06.080 the Kennecks creator. Well that was fun. Yeah, he is, 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:09.400 my dad is he is an amazing shirt collection because 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:12.120 that one that he has had on. So he's gone 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:15.840 full Floridian. Yeah, he likes his shirt. He's got quite 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:17.840 the life. He's retired, lives right at the beach on 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:21.520 the on the Panhandle, the Gulf Shore's White Sands, goes fishing, 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:26.159 watches football, bets on football plays. Yeah, he's got you know, 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:29.240 dabbles in the market with some power tools. Uh, you know, 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:32.560 he could be doing worse. It's a good little life. Yeah. Okay, 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:35.280 So from Florida's Panhandle, we're going to transition to West 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:38.680 coast Oregon, where my dad's visiting from. So you know 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:42.159 they call that the panhandle l A, Lower Alabama. So 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:46.640 from from l A to Oregon to the woods. Yeah, 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:49.320 what a swing. Yeah, so this is and it speaks 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:52.560 to Yin and yang like these guys really couldn't be 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:56.600 more different from an investing standpoint. Yeah, absolutely, Um, and 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:58.600 I was you know, when I think of someone from Oregon, 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:01.879 I guess I just picture fed Armison from Portland. You 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.040 did not get that? Yeah, I did not get that. 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:07.720 Your dad very professional, carries himself very well as a doctor, 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:12.680 really um retired doctor, right, and uh you know, has 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:15.399 a really nice disposition. It's kind of like you in 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:21.240 a way. Well, thank you. Erica brought my dad and 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:24.240 I got a chance to talk to him before we started, 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:27.000 uh of taving here, and it seems like a nice guy. 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:33.000 Welcome from Portland wherever I'm from, right outside of Portland. 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:36.119 So I've been up close and personal with Larry for 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:38.359 a really long time and know a little bit about 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:41.520 how are you? It sounds really weird. That's a little 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:46.400 too professional for I've I've interviewed Larry several times before. 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:51.040 It's true. Um, okay, so Dad, you've been a d 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:55.879 I Y investor for decades now, sinstmid eighties. Excellent. What 0:18:56.080 --> 0:19:00.560 was that impetus for that? How did you get into it? Um? Well, 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:03.560 actually it had to do with your grandfather. He had 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:05.600 a bunch of investing books that were at the time 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:10.600 put out by US News and UH and World reports 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:13.560 at the time, and he himself was a little bit 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:17.680 of a play investor. He was basically a fairly successful 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:22.600 businessman in auto My mom's dad right, right. And so 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:26.120 when I went to medical school in Portland's uh there 0:19:26.160 --> 0:19:29.760 I was. He had this little funky library that UH 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:33.119 and he'd supply the drinks and we'd go over Friday 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:36.040 night and we'd get the book that I would read. 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:39.720 And so that led to some accumulation of money that 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:41.159 then what do you do with it? And that was 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:44.280 a time when the money markets were just hitting and 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:48.480 so that was pretty good. High interest was ruling the 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:50.600 day at that point in time, so you could actually 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:53.600 make some money with just cash put away. One thing 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:56.800 led to another, and then I began taking newsletters and 0:19:56.920 --> 0:20:01.240 buying what some guru was telling me to buy, and 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:04.760 that ended up being a mixed bag, which is funny. 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:09.280 I remember value line was always around, which value line 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:14.800 is a UH subscription h newsletter in print and it 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:16.920 has all kinds. At the time, it was just stock 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:19.399 stock stock stock stock, Well, it's it still goes. And 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:22.880 actually that's what I ended up taking because I felt 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:26.320 like you could rely upon it. It's basically they take 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:32.960 sevent companies that are big companies, well diversified portfolio of it, 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:36.280 and then once a week, so thirteen weeks, they just 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:39.600 kind of rotate through different industries talking about these sevent 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:44.720 hundred countries companies. But I took a couple of newsletters 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:49.000 before that that sort of led me to realize that 0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:54.240 advice was advice and not necessarily successful. So me, my 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:56.879 friend Eric, that's a good second. Well, it's funny you 0:20:56.920 --> 0:20:59.240 say value line. There's actually a couple of value line 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:02.840 ets at least one, and they do exactly that, and 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:05.240 you just buy and you own all value line picks. 0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:08.560 I'm curious, though, in any of these listic to value lines. 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:11.639 When you said some worked out mixed bag um, how 0:21:11.720 --> 0:21:14.840 long did you typically hold the stocks before you gave 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:18.240 up on them? How is that like uh period? As 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:20.760 you well know, following stocks and stuff like that can 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:25.399 it's just consumptive and the market is very unforgiving. And 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:29.040 so I realized that the more I could distance myself 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:32.399 from the market and the activity in the market and 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:35.720 go with the so called blue chips and stuff that 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:38.479 have a mixed bag of success if you look at 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:41.120 them over decades and stuff like that. They were sort 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:44.440 of long term buy and holds for the most part. 0:21:45.000 --> 0:21:49.040 So there's been years where I've had like turnover most 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:52.440 years it's about five to ten twelve percent turnover. And 0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:55.119 were you buying because in the eighties is when mutual 0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:58.520 funds became popular. Were you buying those in addition to 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:00.320 this sort of like because you it's was like you 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:02.239 were running your ow mutual fund in a way. Were 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:04.679 you also owning mutual funds like in a retirement account 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:08.440 as well or just doing this? No, Actually, it's interesting 0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:12.920 because I uh started buying mutual funds, and believe me, 0:22:13.040 --> 0:22:14.800 I didn't know the difference between a stock and a 0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:19.360 bond for the most part. I began buying individual stocks 0:22:19.960 --> 0:22:24.320 and putting money into Dodging Cox Stock Fund and a 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:27.800 couple of other mutual funds and just letting them grow 0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:31.600 just to see how's it gonna go. Because this was 0:22:31.720 --> 0:22:34.800 really my way of gambling. I'm not much of a gambler. 0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:38.440 When I go to Vegas, areno you know, I would 0:22:38.480 --> 0:22:40.639 give myself two hundred bucks and when I ran out 0:22:40.640 --> 0:22:42.600 of two hundred bucks, you know, that was the end 0:22:42.640 --> 0:22:45.680 of the night. And that's my gambling history. And the 0:22:45.760 --> 0:22:51.640 one thing I had learned in medicine never confused luck 0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:56.000