WEBVTT - The Chicago Tylenol Murders and Their Aftermath

0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:04.399
<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Criminalia, a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership

0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:11.520
<v Speaker 1>with iHeartRadio.

0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:15.880
<v Speaker 2>Thailanol is and has been, for decades, the best selling

0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:20.040
<v Speaker 2>non prescription pain reliever sold in the United States. Unlike

0:00:20.079 --> 0:00:24.119
<v Speaker 2>today's thailanol, some pills used to come as gelatin based capsules,

0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:27.360
<v Speaker 2>which were popular because they were smooth and easy to swallow.

0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:31.080
<v Speaker 2>But it was also possible to open those capsules, and

0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:34.680
<v Speaker 2>that meant anyone could remove its active ingredient a set

0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:39.120
<v Speaker 2>of minifin and replace the contents with anything else, and

0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:42.519
<v Speaker 2>someone did, resulting in the deaths of seven people by

0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:47.080
<v Speaker 2>cyanide poisoning. The killings happened in the Chicago area and

0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:51.720
<v Speaker 2>shocked the nation. They changed how American consumers buy over

0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:56.760
<v Speaker 2>the counter medications and influenced consumer packaging. But more than

0:00:56.800 --> 0:00:59.760
<v Speaker 2>forty years later, the identity of the person who tampered

0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:03.920
<v Speaker 2>with TILANL extra strength capsules is still unknown and the

0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:09.199
<v Speaker 2>case has never been closed. Welcome to Criminalia. I'm Maria Tremarki.

0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:12.960
<v Speaker 1>And I'm Holly Frye. The Chicago Tailanol murders, as they've

0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:16.640
<v Speaker 1>come to be known, began on September twenty eighth, nineteen

0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:20.080
<v Speaker 1>eighty two with the death of twelve year old Mary Kellerman,

0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:25.000
<v Speaker 1>an Elkgrove Village, Illinois resident. Mary was not feeling well,

0:01:25.040 --> 0:01:28.000
<v Speaker 1>and early that morning her parents gave her tilanl to

0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:32.919
<v Speaker 1>help relieve her cold symptoms. Recalled her father, Dennis Kellerman quote,

0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:35.560
<v Speaker 1>I heard her go into the bathroom. I heard the

0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:38.760
<v Speaker 1>door close, then I heard something drop. I went to

0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:42.039
<v Speaker 1>the bathroom door. I called Mary, are you okay? There

0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:45.600
<v Speaker 1>was no answer. I called again, Mary, are you okay?

0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:49.240
<v Speaker 1>There was still no answer. So I opened the bathroom

0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:52.240
<v Speaker 1>door and my little girl was on the floor, unconscious.

0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:54.600
<v Speaker 1>She was still in her pajamas.

0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:58.280
<v Speaker 2>Later that same day, a twenty seven year old postal

0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:01.640
<v Speaker 2>worker named Adam Jannis, who lived in Arlington Heights, which

0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:05.760
<v Speaker 2>is less than ten miles away from the Kellermans, also

0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:09.400
<v Speaker 2>died shortly after taking tylan All to ease a muscle ache.

0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:14.639
<v Speaker 2>He collapsed almost instantly and could not be resuscitated. That afternoon,

0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:18.360
<v Speaker 2>Adam's brother, Stanley, aged twenty five, and Stanley's wife, Teresa,

0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:21.799
<v Speaker 2>aged twenty also took tylan al capsules from the same

0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:25.440
<v Speaker 2>bottle as Adam. Both were hoping to relieve their headaches,

0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:28.240
<v Speaker 2>which had developed as the family gathered to mourn Adam

0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:32.880
<v Speaker 2>Stanley died that same day. Teresa died two days later.

0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:36.919
<v Speaker 1>Three more deaths linked to tainted tyland All were reported

0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:40.680
<v Speaker 1>very soon thereafter, thirty one year old Mary McFarland, a

0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:44.399
<v Speaker 1>phone center operator who was raising two boys, thirty five

0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:48.040
<v Speaker 1>year old Paula Prince, a flight attendant, and twenty seven

0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:51.000
<v Speaker 1>year old Mary Reiner, who had just delivered her fourth

0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:52.600
<v Speaker 1>child about a week earlier.

0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:57.800
<v Speaker 2>The first person to see what connected the victims tylan

0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:00.960
<v Speaker 2>All was Helen Jensen, who was then a public health

0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:04.640
<v Speaker 2>nurse based in Arlington Heights Village. She visited the Jenis

0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:08.400
<v Speaker 2>home after the deaths and while investigating, noticed that six

0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:12.840
<v Speaker 2>capsules were missing from the same taileanol bottle, two for Adam,

0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:17.519
<v Speaker 2>two for Stanley, and two for Teresa. In multiple interviews,

0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:20.880
<v Speaker 2>she has stated quote, I went into the bathroom and

0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:23.840
<v Speaker 2>found a bottle of tilanol left out. I brought it

0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:26.120
<v Speaker 2>out to the kitchen with one of the police officers.

0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:28.799
<v Speaker 2>I opened it and counted the pills, and there were

0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:32.840
<v Speaker 2>six pills missing, and then three people dead. I said

0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:36.000
<v Speaker 2>it has to be the taileanol. Though she may have

0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:39.960
<v Speaker 2>figured out that the tailanol was somehow lethal. First responders,

0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:43.840
<v Speaker 2>police and the medical examiner weren't really buying into her theory,

0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:48.240
<v Speaker 2>at least not at first. She continued, quote, they weren't

0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:50.520
<v Speaker 2>going to listen to me. I was a woman and

0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:53.640
<v Speaker 2>I was a nurse. I understood the attitudes of that time.

0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:56.000
<v Speaker 2>But I was proven right by the next day.

0:03:56.800 --> 0:03:59.880
<v Speaker 1>Medication bottles found in the homes the victims were sent

0:03:59.880 --> 0:04:02.960
<v Speaker 1>for testing, and when the results came back, it was

0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:06.720
<v Speaker 1>found that the acedominifin pills in those containers had been

0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:12.600
<v Speaker 1>swapped with pills that instead contained lethal doses of potassium cyanide.

0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:16.400
<v Speaker 1>Cyanide is so powerful a poison that, in twenty nineteen,

0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:20.120
<v Speaker 1>an article in the Journal of Medical Toxicology warned that

0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:24.680
<v Speaker 1>it's quote the ideal chemical weapon because it's readily available,

0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:27.440
<v Speaker 1>it's easy to use, and it's highly lethal.

0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:30.760
<v Speaker 2>Let's talk about the weapon of choice in these murders.

0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:36.040
<v Speaker 2>Cyanide is a naturally occurring chemical compound, and it exists

0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:39.920
<v Speaker 2>in things that we interact with all the time. For instance,

0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:44.240
<v Speaker 2>apple seeds contain a compound that releases cyanide, which, though

0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:47.080
<v Speaker 2>that means apple seeds are toxic, you'd have to consume

0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:50.200
<v Speaker 2>a whole lot of them to have symptoms of cyanide poisoning,

0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:55.480
<v Speaker 2>but cyanide can also be manufactured in several highly lethal forms.

0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:59.640
<v Speaker 2>Potassium cyanide, for instance, was the poison added to punch

0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:02.560
<v Speaker 2>that would drunk by more than nine hundred members of

0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:06.080
<v Speaker 2>the Jonestown cult in the mass murder suicide of nineteen

0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:10.279
<v Speaker 2>seventy eight. Analysis of the deadly talanol capsules in Chicago

0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:14.440
<v Speaker 2>determined they were laced with crystals of potassium cyanide at

0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:17.800
<v Speaker 2>a dose lethal within fifteen minutes of ingestion.

0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:19.960
<v Speaker 1>We're going to take a break for a word from

0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:22.880
<v Speaker 1>our sponsors, and when we're back, we'll talk about the

0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:26.680
<v Speaker 1>investigation as well as the impact on Americans and the

0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:39.560
<v Speaker 1>United States pharmaceutical industry.

0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:43.800
<v Speaker 2>Welcome back to Criminalia. Let's talk about the search for

0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:46.599
<v Speaker 2>a suspect and how this case changed the way the

0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:51.000
<v Speaker 2>pharmaceutical industry packaged over the counter medications, changes that we

0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:52.280
<v Speaker 2>benefit from today.

0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:56.240
<v Speaker 1>Things were moving quickly and within forty eight hours of

0:05:56.279 --> 0:06:00.200
<v Speaker 1>the murders, which happened very close together Chicago marriage bain

0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:04.280
<v Speaker 1>Burn in cooperation with local law enforcement, public health officials,

0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:08.120
<v Speaker 1>the Federal Bureau of Investigation, An Johnson, and Johnson, the

0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:13.120
<v Speaker 1>pharmaceutical company behind thailanol, had all tailanol products pulled from

0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:16.920
<v Speaker 1>local stores and pharmacies in the Chicago area and sent

0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:21.760
<v Speaker 1>to nearby laboratories for integrity testing. This confirmed that the

0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:26.000
<v Speaker 1>pills were filled with poison. Authorities also discovered that the

0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:31.080
<v Speaker 1>capsules the victims had ingested had been manufactured in different locations,

0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:35.159
<v Speaker 1>establishing that the pills had been tainted. After cases of

0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:40.359
<v Speaker 1>tailanol left the pharmaceutical manufacturing facilities, the Chicago Department of

0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:44.640
<v Speaker 1>Health was tasked with examining thousands of bottles containing about

0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:49.680
<v Speaker 1>eighty thousand individual tailanol capsules. That sounds tedious, but in

0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:53.960
<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighty two there was no chemical test for spotting cyanide,

0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:58.000
<v Speaker 1>which meant the staff had to visually inspect each capsule

0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:02.720
<v Speaker 1>for tampering. Employee Michael Petros told Jeffrey Behar in an

0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:06.279
<v Speaker 1>interview with the show Chicago Mysteries, quote, we were looking

0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:10.160
<v Speaker 1>for these heavy crystals, almost like rock salt, but a

0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:13.360
<v Speaker 1>little bit smaller, that were put in those capsules because

0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:16.640
<v Speaker 1>at the time they could be just pulled apart. Later,

0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:19.400
<v Speaker 1>Petro stated, quote, I never looked at the over the

0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:21.880
<v Speaker 1>counter medicines at the stores the same.

0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:26.760
<v Speaker 2>Way, knowing it didn't happen at the plant. Authorities next

0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:31.040
<v Speaker 2>envisioned to scenario more like this. Someone must have removed

0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:35.520
<v Speaker 2>tailanol bottles from store shelves, pulled apart the gelatine capsules

0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:40.240
<v Speaker 2>to add the potassium cyanide, reassembled the packaging, and then

0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:43.520
<v Speaker 2>placed the poisoned pills back on the shelves for unknowing

0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:48.400
<v Speaker 2>consumers to purchase. Between five to seven milligrams of potassium

0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:53.080
<v Speaker 2>cyanide can kill a person, and the toxic tileanol pills

0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:56.240
<v Speaker 2>contained as much as forty five milligrams each.

0:07:57.360 --> 0:08:02.160
<v Speaker 1>A nationwide recall of tailanol soon fought. On October fifth,

0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:06.280
<v Speaker 1>McNeil Consumer Products, the subsidiary of Johnson and Johnson that

0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:10.640
<v Speaker 1>manufactured tailanol, halted production at a cost of one hundred

0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:14.800
<v Speaker 1>million dollars and also recalled thirty one million bottles.

0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:19.680
<v Speaker 2>At home, people were instructed to throw away any taileanol

0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:23.080
<v Speaker 2>products they had. At the time, there was no social media,

0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:26.640
<v Speaker 2>smartphone alerts, or other forms of mass communication that were

0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:31.280
<v Speaker 2>accustomed to today, which meant communities relied on police cars

0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:36.040
<v Speaker 2>slowly driving through neighborhoods their loud speakers blaring quote, do

0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:40.679
<v Speaker 2>not take tilanol until further notice. Warnings to prevent anyone

0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:43.680
<v Speaker 2>else from taking the popular over the countermdication were also

0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:46.920
<v Speaker 2>given by authorities and volunteers, going door to door and

0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:51.320
<v Speaker 2>disseminating flyers as quickly as possible. The recall was also

0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:54.360
<v Speaker 2>announced on television news stories about the poisonings, as well

0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:55.400
<v Speaker 2>as in newspapers.

0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:59.520
<v Speaker 1>The media quickly dubbed the unknown killer the quote tailanol

0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:03.400
<v Speaker 1>terror rists. Once the story broke, the call volume at

0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:07.440
<v Speaker 1>the Illinois Poison Control Center approached eight hundred calls in

0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:11.040
<v Speaker 1>twenty four hours. In a similar time period, they would

0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:16.320
<v Speaker 1>normally average about forty to sixty calls. Mass panic caused

0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:20.000
<v Speaker 1>a considerable amount of chaos in the Chicago area and

0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:24.480
<v Speaker 1>across the nation, and it went beyond pain relievers. Days

0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:28.960
<v Speaker 1>away from Halloween, many towns canceled trigger treating, fearing that

0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:32.040
<v Speaker 1>candy could and would be tainted in the same way

0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:36.720
<v Speaker 1>as those tailen all pills. The mayor of Chicago distributed

0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:41.800
<v Speaker 1>one million leaflets encouraging residents to give trigger treats money

0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:47.000
<v Speaker 1>or small toys instead of candy. One suburban homeowners association

0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:50.640
<v Speaker 1>asked its residents to hand out coupons for candy that

0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:55.640
<v Speaker 1>kids could redeem at local stores. Nationwide, fear caused candy

0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:58.960
<v Speaker 1>sales to drop by as much as twenty percent that year.

0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:03.800
<v Speaker 2>And all tampering had a profound impact on Americans, but

0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:08.880
<v Speaker 2>it also impacted the United States pharmaceutical industry. In those days,

0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:13.160
<v Speaker 2>there was no such thing as tamper proof packaging. That

0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:16.160
<v Speaker 2>changed in nineteen eighty three when Congress passed what was

0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:19.840
<v Speaker 2>known as the Tailenol Bill, legislation that made it a

0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:24.440
<v Speaker 2>felony to tamper with consumer products, which included food, drugs, cosmetics,

0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:28.400
<v Speaker 2>among other items. A few years later, in nineteen eighty nine,

0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:32.040
<v Speaker 2>the United States Food and Drug Administration updated their policies

0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:36.240
<v Speaker 2>as well, making medications more tamper proof by requiring tamper

0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:40.480
<v Speaker 2>evidence seals on all over the counter medications. They also

0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:44.120
<v Speaker 2>set into motion a change in drug manufacturing, producing pills

0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:47.240
<v Speaker 2>in what they called a caplet, a hard tablet that

0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:49.720
<v Speaker 2>looked like a capsule but could not be pulled apart

0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.960
<v Speaker 2>like a capsule. The new formula was difficult to tamper

0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:56.559
<v Speaker 2>with compared to old medications. Next time you get frustrated

0:10:56.559 --> 0:10:59.080
<v Speaker 2>when you encounter and over the counter medication with the

0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:02.920
<v Speaker 2>cardboard box. The cap and the bottle itself all tightly sealed.

0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:05.720
<v Speaker 2>It's these measures keeping you safe.

0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:08.040
<v Speaker 1>We're going to take a break for a word from

0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:11.760
<v Speaker 1>our sponsors. When we're back, we'll talk about the suspects

0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:27.840
<v Speaker 1>in the murders and why one man stood out among them.

0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:31.040
<v Speaker 2>Welcome back to Criminalia. They may have had a good

0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:34.719
<v Speaker 2>theory as to how the capsules were poisoned, but investigators

0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:38.560
<v Speaker 2>still had no idea who did it and why. So

0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:40.920
<v Speaker 2>let's talk about the suspects in this case.

0:11:41.840 --> 0:11:46.240
<v Speaker 1>During the investigation, three suspects emerged, one of whom remained

0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:51.120
<v Speaker 1>on investigator's radar for forty years right up until his death.

0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:55.559
<v Speaker 2>One suspect was Roger Arnold, aged forty eight, a dock

0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:59.360
<v Speaker 2>worker at Jewel in Melrose Park. Jewels, a regional supermarket

0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:03.320
<v Speaker 2>chain in the Chicago area. Investigators were tipped off about

0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:06.160
<v Speaker 2>Arnold from a Lincoln Park bar owner who had told

0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:09.160
<v Speaker 2>police that he'd heard two customers say Arnold had purchased

0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:12.600
<v Speaker 2>a large quantity of cyanide about six months before the

0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:16.880
<v Speaker 2>poisonings happened. During a search of Arnold's apartment on October eleventh,

0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:22.000
<v Speaker 2>authorities found weapons, books about poison and poisoning, and lab equipment,

0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:26.760
<v Speaker 2>including vials and beakers. Arnold confessed he had cyanide in

0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:30.600
<v Speaker 2>his home, but investigators never found any. He denied any

0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:33.240
<v Speaker 2>connection to the taileanol murders and refused to take a

0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:38.080
<v Speaker 2>lie detector test. Ultimately cleared as a suspect, he went

0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:40.920
<v Speaker 2>on to murder a man he thought told the police

0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:44.040
<v Speaker 2>he was the tailanhal terrorist, and he was incarcerated.

0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:49.959
<v Speaker 1>Then there was suspect Kevin Masterson, aged thirty five, of Lombard, Illinois.

0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:54.800
<v Speaker 1>Masterson reportedly had a long standing grudge against the Chicago

0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:58.480
<v Speaker 1>grocery chain Jewel because security guards had found his wife

0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:04.000
<v Speaker 1>shoplifting Allegedly. He blamed the company ultimately for his divorce,

0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:07.760
<v Speaker 1>and after the tailanol killings, he turned himself into the

0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:12.320
<v Speaker 1>FBI in Los Angeles, but there was no connection between

0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:13.480
<v Speaker 1>him and the debts.

0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:18.040
<v Speaker 2>And then there was the third suspect who was the

0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:24.679
<v Speaker 2>investigator's primary suspect, James Lewis. Lewis hit their radar after

0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:28.040
<v Speaker 2>he sent a handwritten extortion letter to Johnson and Johnson

0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:32.880
<v Speaker 2>headquarters demanding they pay one million dollars to quote stop

0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:36.120
<v Speaker 2>the killings. It turned out to be a great clue

0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:39.760
<v Speaker 2>to work with investigators, hoping this letter would connect them

0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:42.839
<v Speaker 2>to their killer, were able to eventually trace it to

0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:45.960
<v Speaker 2>Lewis through the postage meter he used to send the mail.

0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:50.880
<v Speaker 1>As the investigation expanded from the extortion letter to Lewis's

0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:56.040
<v Speaker 1>possible involvement in the Tailanol murders, investigators used coded messages

0:13:56.040 --> 0:14:00.319
<v Speaker 1>in advertisements that they placed in the Chicago Tribune, using

0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:03.600
<v Speaker 1>as the letter's recipients in order to communicate with him.

0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:06.679
<v Speaker 1>That was a method he had requested in his letter,

0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:09.760
<v Speaker 1>and it was when a librarian in New York City

0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:13.400
<v Speaker 1>spotted Lewis and contacted police that he was arrested.

0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:17.319
<v Speaker 2>Lewis claimed the extortion letter was his attempt to draw

0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:22.320
<v Speaker 2>attention to his wife's employer, Lakeside Travel, after her paycheck bounced,

0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:25.240
<v Speaker 2>and he used the postage meter in their office as

0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:29.239
<v Speaker 2>a way to call authorities attention to their alleged shady practices.

0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:33.080
<v Speaker 2>He told investigators that quote he waited for the first

0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:36.000
<v Speaker 2>national tragedy to occur that he could use to put

0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:40.320
<v Speaker 2>an investigative spotlight on that agency. He also stated he

0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:43.560
<v Speaker 2>never actually intended to collect money, and that he just

0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:46.640
<v Speaker 2>wanted to embarrass his wife's former employer.

0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:51.080
<v Speaker 1>But some investigators didn't believe that story. They had another

0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:54.280
<v Speaker 1>theory that Lewis was trying to extort Johnson and Johnson

0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:57.200
<v Speaker 1>for the death of his five year old daughter, Tony Ann,

0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:01.280
<v Speaker 1>who had down syndrome and a heart condition. To boost

0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:04.560
<v Speaker 1>that theory, there were earlier reports in which Lewis claimed

0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:07.920
<v Speaker 1>her death was the result of medications that had been

0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:10.000
<v Speaker 1>manufactured by Johnson and Johnson.

0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:15.120
<v Speaker 2>Lewis consistently denied any role in the poisonings. Though he

0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:18.600
<v Speaker 2>was never charged with the Tailanhol murders, he did stand

0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:21.720
<v Speaker 2>trial for extortion for writing and mailing threatening letters to

0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:24.880
<v Speaker 2>Johnson and Johnson. He was convicted and sentenced to ten

0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:29.320
<v Speaker 2>years in prison. He served his full sentence, and while incarcerated,

0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:33.120
<v Speaker 2>he volunteered to help investigators solve the case of the

0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:36.840
<v Speaker 2>Taileanhol killings, and he had numerous theories as to how

0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:40.960
<v Speaker 2>the crime could have been committed. For many that further

0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:44.880
<v Speaker 2>raised suspicions of his guilt. He defended his assistance in

0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:48.440
<v Speaker 2>the case in a nineteen ninety two CNN interview, saying, quote,

0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:50.600
<v Speaker 2>if I were going down the street and your house

0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:53.440
<v Speaker 2>was on fire, not my problem, but I would stop

0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:54.320
<v Speaker 2>and try to help.

0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:59.280
<v Speaker 1>Lewis had detailed theories about the circumstances surrounding the deaths

0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:04.160
<v Speaker 1>and invited highly detailed drawings, diagrams, and manuscripts as to

0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:07.119
<v Speaker 1>how the murderer may have gone about filling the capsules

0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:12.680
<v Speaker 1>and distributing them. Investigators were quote thunderstruck by the specificity

0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:15.880
<v Speaker 1>of the drawings that he created and the quote many

0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:19.160
<v Speaker 1>many hours of painstaking work that it would have taken

0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:24.560
<v Speaker 1>him to prepare such materials, stated Jeremy Margolis, former assistant

0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:28.680
<v Speaker 1>US attorney who worked on the investigation of Lewis's detail. Quote.

0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:32.040
<v Speaker 1>He made a drawing which he called the drill board method.

0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:36.240
<v Speaker 1>Someone could drill holes into a plywood contraption, put the

0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:39.480
<v Speaker 1>bottom capsule into the hole, put cyanide on top of

0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:42.920
<v Speaker 1>the board, scrape it across with a bread knife. Clean

0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:45.560
<v Speaker 1>up the excess, put the tops of the capsules in,

0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:48.440
<v Speaker 1>load them into the tailenal bottles, and put them on

0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:54.600
<v Speaker 1>store shelves. Still, despite his cooperation, investigators found Lewis to

0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:58.720
<v Speaker 1>be quote arrogant, haughty, and condescending.

0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:03.200
<v Speaker 2>Said Margolis of Fluid assistants. Quote, it was nothing short

0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:07.359
<v Speaker 2>of bizarre. Here's a guy who was facing many years

0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:11.800
<v Speaker 2>in the federal penitentiary, publicly accused, although not formally charged,

0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:15.880
<v Speaker 2>with the Tailanhal murders, who volunteers his assistance to law

0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:19.560
<v Speaker 2>enforcement to help them solve the Tailanal murders and then

0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:23.080
<v Speaker 2>provided us with dozens and dozens and dozens of pages

0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:27.320
<v Speaker 2>of manuscripts speculating on how it might have happened. Lewis

0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:30.359
<v Speaker 2>later said of his work, quote, I was doing like

0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:33.000
<v Speaker 2>I would have done for a corporate client, making a

0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:37.080
<v Speaker 2>list of possible scenarios. And he called the Tailanhal terrorist

0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:41.320
<v Speaker 2>quote a heinous, cold blooded killer, a cruel monster.

0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:46.719
<v Speaker 1>Chuck Gowdy, a Chicago based investigative reporter, interviewed Lewis over

0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:49.960
<v Speaker 1>the years and has said of James quote, he was

0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:52.240
<v Speaker 1>one of those criminals who thought that he was the

0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:55.880
<v Speaker 1>smartest guy in the room. He would call me angry

0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:59.080
<v Speaker 1>about stories that we aired. Did like that we presumed

0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:01.760
<v Speaker 1>he was the tailand Al killer, even though he put

0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:04.920
<v Speaker 1>himself right in the middle of it and explained the

0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:06.879
<v Speaker 1>entire series of attacks.

0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:11.520
<v Speaker 2>During their investigation, authorities discovered that Lewis had a violent

0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:15.679
<v Speaker 2>criminal past, and just four years prior had been charged

0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:19.200
<v Speaker 2>with killing and dismembering seventy two year old Raymond West,

0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:22.119
<v Speaker 2>who had hired Lewis as an accountant. Lewis had then

0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:24.840
<v Speaker 2>tried to cash a check forged in the victim's name.

0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:29.840
<v Speaker 2>He was not convicted, though, despite plenty of compelling evidence

0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:33.639
<v Speaker 2>of his guilt. A judge dismissed the charges on a

0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:37.760
<v Speaker 2>few reasons. Some evidence had been illegally obtained, and Lewis

0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:40.480
<v Speaker 2>had not been read his miranda rights upon arrest.

0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:46.040
<v Speaker 1>Going back long before the Tailannol murders in nineteen sixty six,

0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:49.720
<v Speaker 1>they discovered that Lewis tried to kill his adoptive mother

0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:52.199
<v Speaker 1>with an axe, and that he was placed in the

0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:56.479
<v Speaker 1>Statemental Hospital. In nineteen eighty one, he was convicted of

0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:59.520
<v Speaker 1>six counts of mail fraud in a credit card scheme

0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:00.560
<v Speaker 1>in Cansas City.

0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:05.680
<v Speaker 2>More recently, and therefore not part of the initial Tailanl investigation,

0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:09.600
<v Speaker 2>in two thousand and four, Lewis was charged with rape

0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:13.479
<v Speaker 2>and kidnapping. He spent three years in jail awaiting trial,

0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:16.280
<v Speaker 2>but the case was dropped when the victim wouldn't testify.

0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:21.240
<v Speaker 2>In two thousand and nine, FBI agents searched Lewis's apartment

0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:26.159
<v Speaker 2>in Cambridge, Massachusetts, removing boxes of evidence, but whatever they

0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:29.800
<v Speaker 2>were looking for, nothing came of what they found. In

0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:34.960
<v Speaker 2>twenty ten, Lewis self published a novel titled Poison The

0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:39.359
<v Speaker 2>Doctor's Dilemma. The story was about people drinking lead poisoned water,

0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:43.560
<v Speaker 2>but in this novel he directly referenced the tailanol murders.

0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:48.760
<v Speaker 2>As recently as September of twenty twenty two, investigators reinterviewed

0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:52.920
<v Speaker 2>Lewis about the Taileanal case, but again to no avail.

0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:58.040
<v Speaker 1>In the long term aftermath, authorities have continued to investigate

0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:02.200
<v Speaker 1>the murders and have collected DA samples from Lewis and others.

0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:05.960
<v Speaker 1>In recent years, they even looked into Ted Kaczinski, the

0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:09.440
<v Speaker 1>so called unibomer, who used homemade bombs and killings from

0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:13.679
<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventy eight to nineteen ninety five, but the tailan

0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:17.560
<v Speaker 1>All case remains unsolved, although it's never actually been closed.

0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:21.879
<v Speaker 1>When he died in twenty twenty three, headlines across the

0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:25.920
<v Speaker 1>country continued to cite Lewis as the prime suspect in

0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:28.240
<v Speaker 1>the Chicago tailanol murders.

0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:32.800
<v Speaker 2>The murders, reported the Safety Science Journal, were quote something

0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:37.359
<v Speaker 2>never seen or thinkable for someone until it happened, and

0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:41.280
<v Speaker 2>that the concept of safety culture has largely developed since.

0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:46.080
<v Speaker 2>Helen Jensen, who pinpointed tailanol as the murder weapon, has

0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:49.960
<v Speaker 2>stated perhaps the most poignant comment of their impact, quote,

0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:54.159
<v Speaker 2>we lost our innocence. We have become less trusting of

0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:57.520
<v Speaker 2>everyone else. It's an odd question I'm going to have

0:20:57.560 --> 0:20:58.159
<v Speaker 2>to get used to.

0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:02.520
<v Speaker 1>That's so true. Would you like to step inside the cooler?

0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:04.000
<v Speaker 2>Let me grab my jacket? Hang on.

0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:09.400
<v Speaker 1>This one is so weird because I have a memory

0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:11.360
<v Speaker 1>of this all playing out. I was a kid when

0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:13.560
<v Speaker 1>it happened, and I remember seeing it on the news.

0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:16.040
<v Speaker 1>Me too, But this is one where I'm going to

0:21:16.119 --> 0:21:22.120
<v Speaker 1>invoke my own specific happy memory sort of related to it,

0:21:23.119 --> 0:21:27.359
<v Speaker 1>because I have since I was a child, loved those

0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:32.879
<v Speaker 1>pull apart gelatin capsules. There's just something oddly magical about them. Yes,

0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:36.440
<v Speaker 1>and there are some ways you can still get those,

0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:39.920
<v Speaker 1>Like there's some products that still use them, Like there's

0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:43.240
<v Speaker 1>a supplement I give my cats that uses it, like

0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:46.760
<v Speaker 1>you're actually supposed to pull it apart and sprinkle it

0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:48.800
<v Speaker 1>on their food, And there are things that use them.

0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:51.320
<v Speaker 1>And I just remember as a kid, I got in

0:21:51.440 --> 0:21:55.080
<v Speaker 1>trouble for taking a bunch of part and like just

0:21:55.200 --> 0:21:57.359
<v Speaker 1>kind of playing with them, and so I kind of

0:21:57.400 --> 0:22:00.760
<v Speaker 1>wanted to make a drink that references back to that.

0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:04.320
<v Speaker 1>I love the duality of the two colors of the

0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:08.000
<v Speaker 1>ends that slid apart. It was like a little toy

0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:10.439
<v Speaker 1>because they were gelatin, but they felt like plastic in

0:22:10.480 --> 0:22:10.920
<v Speaker 1>your hands.

0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:13.119
<v Speaker 2>Yes they did, and we were both very like we

0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:14.520
<v Speaker 2>were kids. We were small.

0:22:14.920 --> 0:22:17.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but obviously this is also tragic. So I made

0:22:17.880 --> 0:22:21.000
<v Speaker 1>a drink that I debated calling this the poison pill,

0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:23.399
<v Speaker 1>but instead I want to call it tamper proof. Okay,

0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:26.960
<v Speaker 1>because I am very thankful that a lot of safety

0:22:27.000 --> 0:22:29.199
<v Speaker 1>measures were put in place, even though I hate that.

0:22:29.720 --> 0:22:32.119
<v Speaker 2>I can't get into them anymore, but I like that

0:22:32.119 --> 0:22:33.840
<v Speaker 2>they're right.

0:22:34.280 --> 0:22:39.639
<v Speaker 1>It's fine. I will use tools like a grade ape. Really,

0:22:39.760 --> 0:22:43.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm just you know, applying sharp items until I can

0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:44.040
<v Speaker 1>get into.

0:22:43.800 --> 0:22:47.320
<v Speaker 2>It, because I'd rather have the safety measures than like

0:22:47.440 --> 0:22:49.439
<v Speaker 2>crying myself with the knife tire to get into it.

0:22:49.560 --> 0:22:54.240
<v Speaker 1>Yes, and this drink, because of one of the ingredients,

0:22:54.359 --> 0:22:57.240
<v Speaker 1>you can customize it to your own taste a little bit.

0:22:57.359 --> 0:23:01.200
<v Speaker 1>So this starts with three quarters of ounce of grenadine,

0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:05.120
<v Speaker 1>three quarters of an ounce of lime juice, a half

0:23:05.200 --> 0:23:07.320
<v Speaker 1>ounce of orjaw and if you're like, is that a

0:23:07.400 --> 0:23:10.760
<v Speaker 1>lot of syrup? You'll see why in a minute an

0:23:10.760 --> 0:23:13.760
<v Speaker 1>ounce and a half of vodka. I'm gonna be honest.

0:23:13.800 --> 0:23:15.840
<v Speaker 1>I put more than that in it initially, and I

0:23:15.840 --> 0:23:17.919
<v Speaker 1>think it was a little too slappy. But if you

0:23:17.960 --> 0:23:21.639
<v Speaker 1>really love vodka and you want to drink one drink

0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:23.679
<v Speaker 1>for the night, go ahead and bump it up to

0:23:23.680 --> 0:23:26.439
<v Speaker 1>two if you wish. And then just a splash I

0:23:26.520 --> 0:23:29.880
<v Speaker 1>mean a little splash of red wine or port. It's

0:23:29.920 --> 0:23:32.760
<v Speaker 1>there for color more than anything else, but it's also

0:23:32.800 --> 0:23:34.920
<v Speaker 1>a good way to use up any wine you got

0:23:34.960 --> 0:23:38.160
<v Speaker 1>lying around the house, and it adds a bass note

0:23:38.160 --> 0:23:40.080
<v Speaker 1>to the whole thing and makes it nice and heavy,

0:23:40.119 --> 0:23:42.240
<v Speaker 1>which is what we want. So you are gonna shake

0:23:42.320 --> 0:23:46.560
<v Speaker 1>that in a shaker with ice, strain it into a

0:23:46.600 --> 0:23:50.679
<v Speaker 1>clean glass with clean ice, and then we're gonna do

0:23:50.720 --> 0:23:55.400
<v Speaker 1>a layering effect because you're gonna take your barspoon. Everybody

0:23:55.480 --> 0:23:58.359
<v Speaker 1>likes to do layers a little differently. For me, the

0:23:58.400 --> 0:24:00.639
<v Speaker 1>best way is to have a bar that has a

0:24:00.680 --> 0:24:05.560
<v Speaker 1>flat end and carefully pour the last ingredient down that

0:24:05.760 --> 0:24:08.840
<v Speaker 1>spiral of the bar spoon to let it kind of

0:24:09.320 --> 0:24:12.880
<v Speaker 1>hit the You want to place that flat end kind

0:24:12.920 --> 0:24:16.159
<v Speaker 1>of right on the meniscus of your existing drink and

0:24:16.240 --> 0:24:18.280
<v Speaker 1>let it kind of spread out from there instead of

0:24:18.320 --> 0:24:22.760
<v Speaker 1>pouring into it. And you're gonna use hard seltzer, and

0:24:22.800 --> 0:24:25.359
<v Speaker 1>you're gonna top it with I don't know, two to

0:24:25.440 --> 0:24:28.320
<v Speaker 1>two and a half ounces of hard seltzer because what

0:24:28.400 --> 0:24:31.399
<v Speaker 1>this does. And I used a strawberry hibiscus one that

0:24:31.440 --> 0:24:34.920
<v Speaker 1>I had on hand. But if you have another flavor,

0:24:35.040 --> 0:24:38.280
<v Speaker 1>that's great, like mine came from a pack that I

0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:41.600
<v Speaker 1>got at the grocery store that had like four different flavors,

0:24:41.640 --> 0:24:45.320
<v Speaker 1>including like grape, and one of them is pineapple, and

0:24:45.440 --> 0:24:48.719
<v Speaker 1>one of them is like a lime flavor. So you

0:24:48.760 --> 0:24:51.199
<v Speaker 1>have some options there. And then what you get is

0:24:51.200 --> 0:24:54.439
<v Speaker 1>a drink that looks about half bright red and about

0:24:54.480 --> 0:24:57.840
<v Speaker 1>half clear, kind of like those pills were bright red

0:24:57.920 --> 0:25:03.160
<v Speaker 1>and white in many ca or sometimes yellow in my memory.

0:25:03.400 --> 0:25:05.000
<v Speaker 1>I looked up pictures I did.

0:25:04.880 --> 0:25:07.720
<v Speaker 2>Too, sometimes blue, but the red was always there.

0:25:08.400 --> 0:25:13.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So that it kind of has the same visual effect,

0:25:13.280 --> 0:25:16.919
<v Speaker 1>but with safety, we hope, so that that is the

0:25:16.960 --> 0:25:19.800
<v Speaker 1>tamper proof. If you want to do this as a mocktail,

0:25:21.040 --> 0:25:26.480
<v Speaker 1>it's pretty easy. Instead of vodka, you're gonna do this

0:25:26.520 --> 0:25:29.240
<v Speaker 1>is where I would probably do like a club soda,

0:25:29.400 --> 0:25:32.040
<v Speaker 1>and I would not put it in the shaker. Obviously

0:25:32.080 --> 0:25:35.600
<v Speaker 1>you're gonna just mix that into your drink. Go ahead

0:25:35.640 --> 0:25:39.440
<v Speaker 1>and mix it in the glass in this case, and

0:25:39.480 --> 0:25:42.480
<v Speaker 1>then instead of a splash of wine, just use like

0:25:42.480 --> 0:25:45.040
<v Speaker 1>a grape juice or a pomegranate juice, whatever you have

0:25:45.119 --> 0:25:47.399
<v Speaker 1>on hand that is dark in color. This is the

0:25:47.440 --> 0:25:49.800
<v Speaker 1>one time where I will say, not your white grape juice,

0:25:50.480 --> 0:25:53.359
<v Speaker 1>and then you will do. I would do like a

0:25:53.440 --> 0:25:56.320
<v Speaker 1>non alcoholic seltzer on top, and if you have one

0:25:56.359 --> 0:26:00.360
<v Speaker 1>with a flavors, so much the better. I love flavored seltzer. Man.

0:26:00.400 --> 0:26:04.000
<v Speaker 1>When I was a kid, that was the sat and

0:26:04.040 --> 0:26:05.800
<v Speaker 1>that is the tamper proof. This is one of those

0:26:05.840 --> 0:26:10.040
<v Speaker 1>things that I periodically throughout my adult life, my brain

0:26:10.119 --> 0:26:11.200
<v Speaker 1>has just gone.

0:26:11.400 --> 0:26:14.960
<v Speaker 2>Right for like these disappearances and murders from when.

0:26:14.760 --> 0:26:19.240
<v Speaker 1>We were kids, Like, yeah, are they just floating around out.

0:26:19.119 --> 0:26:22.840
<v Speaker 2>There because one piece of critical evidence has not been

0:26:22.880 --> 0:26:26.080
<v Speaker 2>found and they're just hanging it doing their life right.

0:26:26.400 --> 0:26:30.240
<v Speaker 1>So, once again, cold case is not so easy to

0:26:30.880 --> 0:26:32.919
<v Speaker 1>want to think about drinks for it, but we're doing it.

0:26:33.800 --> 0:26:36.760
<v Speaker 1>And I love hearing about them because it is fascinating

0:26:36.800 --> 0:26:39.560
<v Speaker 1>to know how many things have happened that we haven't

0:26:39.560 --> 0:26:40.160
<v Speaker 1>figured out.

0:26:40.119 --> 0:26:44.280
<v Speaker 2>Yet and what people think might the reason be for that? Yeah,

0:26:44.320 --> 0:26:45.440
<v Speaker 2>whatever crime was.

0:26:45.680 --> 0:26:52.360
<v Speaker 1>So tragic, but hopefully, uh, you know, nothing in your

0:26:52.359 --> 0:26:55.000
<v Speaker 1>life has ever been or will ever be tampered with.

0:26:56.119 --> 0:26:58.560
<v Speaker 1>We are so grateful that you've spent this time with us,

0:26:58.560 --> 0:27:00.240
<v Speaker 1>and we will be right back here next time week

0:27:00.560 --> 0:27:03.560
<v Speaker 1>with another story and we will have another cocktail and

0:27:03.680 --> 0:27:26.040
<v Speaker 1>mocktail to go with it. Criminalia is a production of

0:27:26.080 --> 0:27:30.399
<v Speaker 1>Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from

0:27:30.440 --> 0:27:34.800
<v Speaker 1>Shondaland Audio, please visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

0:27:34.800 --> 0:27:36.679
<v Speaker 1>wherever you listen to your favorite shows.