Speaker 1: I got an email from Laura.
Speaker 2: The email set urgent and I opened the email and
Speaker 2: she's like, I'm pregnant and I had a positive pregnancy
Speaker 2: test embedded in the email, and now I'm seeing.
Speaker 1: Proof of something. I just remember thinking, oh fuck.
Speaker 3: About eleven days earlier, former Bachelor Clayton Eckered hung out
Speaker 3: with a woman named Laura Owens. They hooked up, but
Speaker 3: here's the thing.
Speaker 1: We never slept together, we never had sex.
Speaker 3: When Clayton received that email from Laura saying she was
Speaker 3: pregnant by him, he was in disbelief. He didn't believe
Speaker 3: the photo of the test could be real, so he
Speaker 3: invited Laura to his apartment again.
Speaker 2: The reason I invited her over was to get her
Speaker 2: to take a pregnancy test right in front of me.
Speaker 3: Laura agreed to come over, but she was a step ahead,
Speaker 3: already emailed Clayton the photo, but she brought the positive
Speaker 3: pregnancy test with her to show him in person. It
Speaker 3: was one of those at home tests where one line
Speaker 3: means not pregnant and two lines means pregnant. On the
Speaker 3: test Laura brought, Clayton could.
Speaker 2: See one very very present line and the other one
Speaker 2: was like slightly there.
Speaker 3: Clayton did not see that coming well.
Speaker 2: I was having a hard time believing it because we
Speaker 2: didn't have sex. So I wanted her to take a
Speaker 2: test in front of me so that I could see
Speaker 2: it with my own eyes.
Speaker 3: Clayton told Laura he'd already purchased a test of his
Speaker 3: own and asked her if she'd mind taking a second test.
Speaker 2: I figured once I pulled out that surprise pregnancy test
Speaker 2: she would decline to take it, that that would be
Speaker 2: the end of it all.
Speaker 1: But unfortunately, that's not what happened.
Speaker 3: When he asked her to take the second test.
Speaker 1: She was like, Okay, yeah, I'll do it.
Speaker 3: Laura went into the bathroom, took the test, and for
Speaker 3: the next next few minutes, all Clayton could do was
Speaker 3: wait for the truth to come to light.
Speaker 2: It was a torturous five minutes that felt like an
Speaker 2: eternity because I knew that a line either was or
Speaker 2: was not going to appear, and that singular line would
Speaker 2: dictate the outcome of my life.
Speaker 3: I'm Stephanie Young, and this is love trapped.
Speaker 1: There's no way you'd better believe. I'll be raising holy.
Speaker 4: Hellless if you ever, ever, ever, ever.
Speaker 3: Trastic We're going to go back to the night in question,
Speaker 3: the night when Laura Wins came over to Clayton's apartment
Speaker 3: for a hookup. Clayton didn't know it at the time,
Speaker 3: but that night would change his life forever. It would
Speaker 3: set off a chain of events that would lead to
Speaker 3: a criminal investigation, and it would lead me, a curious podcaster,
Speaker 3: to Clayton Eckerd's door. Hi, Clayton's good to see you again.
Speaker 2: He stuff is good to see you, so I should
Speaker 2: probably tell you how I got here.
Speaker 3: Right, Let's go back to May of twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3: Clayton wasn't in a good place at the time. He
Speaker 3: was despised by Bachelor Nation and what felt like the
Speaker 3: entire Internet. He also had just met up with his ex,
Speaker 3: Susie Evans. He met her on The Bachelor. They dated
Speaker 3: for almost a year after they filmed the show, but
Speaker 3: eventually broke things off. Clayton was still torn up about.
Speaker 2: It, and I thought, man, maybe this was a mistake
Speaker 2: to break up. Maybe in another world, if we didn't
Speaker 2: experience all this pain, we could have made it work.
Speaker 3: We've all been there, right. You see your ex and
Speaker 3: you suddenly start wondering if breaking up was a mistake.
Speaker 2: I was struggling, and I remember I crying my eyes out.
Speaker 3: This wasn't just any breakup. Clayton and Susie had announced
Speaker 3: their split on a joint Instagram post a few months earlier.
Speaker 3: Nearly one hundred thousand people liked this post.
Speaker 2: I definitely remember just the hate of the trill that people.
Speaker 1: Had for me.
Speaker 3: The comment section was particularly brutal.
Speaker 2: I remember reading comments like, Oh, this man got to
Speaker 2: have his cake and eat it too, after everything he did,
Speaker 2: he didn't have.
Speaker 1: To suffer at all.
Speaker 2: Susie deserves so much better than this guy, this monster,
Speaker 2: this mess, this loser. I mean I saw all of it.
Speaker 2: It was like as if she was dating the worst
Speaker 2: man alive.
Speaker 3: Clayton had taken a hard fall from Grace and was
Speaker 3: adjusting to his new life as a real estate agent
Speaker 3: in Scottsdale, Arizona. There he was a big fish in
Speaker 3: a small pond, but his experience on the Bachelor left
Speaker 3: him feeling hollow.
Speaker 2: You come off the show and it's like your dope
Speaker 2: mean goes from being at like maximal level. It just
Speaker 2: knows diving. I was depressed. I was basically like having
Speaker 2: withdrawal effects.
Speaker 3: To help him cope, he turned to weed.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I was getting high to feel that intense high
Speaker 2: that I felt.
Speaker 1: When I was the bachelor.
Speaker 3: It wasn't always weed. Sometimes it was sex or pizza
Speaker 3: and on a good night.
Speaker 2: A combination of all three dope mean releasing activities, which
Speaker 2: is typically eating really good food, having sex. I just
Speaker 2: mash them all together so I could get something close
Speaker 2: to that feeling.
Speaker 3: I was surprised at how honest Clayton was about this
Speaker 3: period of his life. But as we heard last episode,
Speaker 3: that's Clayton honest, maybe to a fault. In this case,
Speaker 3: his oversharing tendency is actually helpful because every detail of
Speaker 3: what happens next is important. It all started with a
Speaker 3: message on LinkedIn. We've had it read by a voice actor.
Speaker 5: Hi, I'm looking to connect with similar minded young entrepreneurs
Speaker 5: in Scottsdale. I see that you work for and I
Speaker 5: actually contacted them recently. They were going to connect me
Speaker 5: with someone who could help me find investment properties, but
Speaker 5: haven't yet. Let me know if you can help.
Speaker 3: Laura saw that Clayton had just started as an agent
Speaker 3: and reached out. Clayton shared his phone number to get
Speaker 3: the ball rolling.
Speaker 1: Laura reached out.
Speaker 2: She was looking to buy an investment property and I
Speaker 2: had just got my reallder license, so I was looking
Speaker 2: to secure my very first deal.
Speaker 3: Clayton sent over the screenshots of their initial messages. They
Speaker 3: spent a few days texting, and during the chat, Laura
Speaker 3: mentioned that she was a competitive equestrian, and then on
Speaker 3: Saturday night, May twentieth.
Speaker 2: She sent me a photo of her standing by her horse.
Speaker 3: In the photo, Laura has her backside turned to the camera.
Speaker 3: She's petting a dark brown horse. She's wearing a crop
Speaker 3: top and beige riding leggings.
Speaker 1: And let's just call it for what it is. She
Speaker 1: had a nice ass.
Speaker 3: When I first heard about this photo, I really thought
Speaker 3: it was going to be way more revealing than it was.
Speaker 1: That's the mind of a man right there for you.
Speaker 1: It doesn't take much. The imagination takes us the rest
Speaker 1: of the distance.
Speaker 3: Clayton was at home assembling ikea furniture. He'd already popped
Speaker 3: an edible.
Speaker 2: I saw the photo and I was high and saw
Speaker 2: my mind, you know, wasn't thinking clearly. It was more
Speaker 2: so just thinking about what's in front of me in
Speaker 2: that moment. But I was like, look, why don't we
Speaker 2: just hang out.
Speaker 3: Laura agreed to come over that night. I asked Clayton
Speaker 3: the obvious, this was a hookup, right, Yeah. It was
Speaker 3: around eight pm. Laura was buzzed up to Clayton's apartment.
Speaker 3: He opened the door to find a small woman smiling
Speaker 3: up at him. She had long, dark hair, and she
Speaker 3: was dressed casually in a T shirt and leggings. By
Speaker 3: the time Laura arrived, Clayton was stoned. He'd taken ten milligrams,
Speaker 3: which would send me to outer space, but that was
Speaker 3: his baseline. It just makes him chattier and makes the
Speaker 3: night more enjoyable, more chill, That's what he was. After
Speaker 3: a relaxing evening, he offered Laura an edible two.
Speaker 2: I said, hey, if you what one, I took one,
Speaker 2: you're welcome to have it, and she said, yeah, sure,
Speaker 2: I'll take one.
Speaker 3: So they got high together and started talking. The conversation
Speaker 3: wasn't exactly for play. It was actually pretty intense.
Speaker 2: We talked about mental health and how you know, I'd
Speaker 2: struggled with feeling like I was enough and she also
Speaker 2: struggled with feeling like she was enough in her life
Speaker 2: with her family, because her family was super accomplished, and
Speaker 2: she always felt like she was in the shadows of
Speaker 2: her father and her mom and even her sister who
Speaker 2: has a kid AND's married, and so she feels like she's,
Speaker 2: you know, has to live up to those expectations, and
Speaker 2: so that's caused her to feel like the black sheep
Speaker 2: of the family. And so I told her, like, I
Speaker 2: felt the same way, you know, in my life.
Speaker 1: But my middle brother, he was the superstar athlete.
Speaker 2: I was the one in his shadows, always trying to
Speaker 2: measure up to his success.
Speaker 3: They bonded, and after an hour or two of talking
Speaker 3: on the couch.
Speaker 2: I told her to like, come over closer to me,
Speaker 2: and she did, and then that's when we started hooking up.
Speaker 3: And if you're wondering why we're about to go into
Speaker 3: this level of detail, I promise it becomes important to
Speaker 3: the story.
Speaker 2: She gets on top of me, but then she stopped
Speaker 2: me and was like, hey, I don't want to have
Speaker 2: sex tonight, And I said, okay, yeah, that's totally fine.
Speaker 2: She's like, not on the first night. We can do
Speaker 2: it at a later point. This just gives you another
Speaker 2: reason to like see me again.
Speaker 3: Laura was still down to hook up, but wanted to
Speaker 3: keep penetrative sex off the table for the first night.
Speaker 3: According to Clayton, they headed to the bedroom and had
Speaker 3: oral sex.
Speaker 1: When we lay there, we fall asleep in.
Speaker 3: The bed, and a few hours later we.
Speaker 1: Wake up, start making out again.
Speaker 2: She does oral again, and then she ran to the bathroom,
Speaker 2: like immediately after.
Speaker 3: The next morning, Clayton was hit with a wave of regret.
Speaker 3: Laura was his client, this could be his first real
Speaker 3: estate deal, and he might have just blown it, so
Speaker 3: to speak. He started kicking himself for crossing a professional boundary,
Speaker 3: but Laura was still interested in working with him. In fact,
Speaker 3: the two of them made plans later that afternoon to
Speaker 3: look at a couple homes.
Speaker 1: She ended up staying overnight, stayed until the early morning.
Speaker 2: She then laughed, I went to church, cleared my mind,
Speaker 2: and then ended up meeting back up with her to
Speaker 2: show homes later that day.
Speaker 3: Clayton wanted to keep Laura as a client, so at
Speaker 3: the end of their home tours.
Speaker 2: She's all in his happy mood and I felt really bad,
Speaker 2: So I was like, we got to talk.
Speaker 3: Sitting in his car, he found the right moment to
Speaker 3: finally tell her what was on his mind.
Speaker 2: I feel bad because I didn't explain my intentions last night.
Speaker 2: I'm not looking to date, and my intentions were to just.
Speaker 1: Have a fun night. That was just a one time thing,
Speaker 1: and I want you to know that.
Speaker 2: Because I don't want there to be miscommunication going forward.
Speaker 2: She quickly jumped in and said, no, no, don't have
Speaker 2: to apologize at all. Like, I'm so grateful, I'm happy
Speaker 2: last night happened. I had so much fun.
Speaker 3: Clayton had fun too, but he felt like he'd crossed
Speaker 3: a professional line and that wasn't how he wanted to
Speaker 3: start off his real estate career. So he offered to
Speaker 3: make it right with Laura and find her a new
Speaker 3: agent to work with.
Speaker 1: She said, no, no, I want to work with you.
Speaker 2: It's not awkward at all, but like, you know, can
Speaker 2: you just keep an open mind like that, maybe there
Speaker 2: could be something between us.
Speaker 3: She wasn't getting the picture, so at that point he
Speaker 3: had to make himself're still clear what happened the night
Speaker 3: before was never happening again.
Speaker 2: After telling Laura no, like there's no future here between us,
Speaker 2: the tone had shifted.
Speaker 1: And then she started to cry. And I remember that moment.
Speaker 1: It was this kind of.
Speaker 2: Like, oh, oh wow, this is way more intense than
Speaker 2: I anticipated this would be. I mean, I just met
Speaker 2: this woman and now she's crying in my car and
Speaker 2: she's telling me, well, hey, I really thought that we
Speaker 2: have a lot in common.
Speaker 1: We both have.
Speaker 2: Struggled with self confidence and self love, and so I
Speaker 2: really feel that I can help you find that within
Speaker 2: you and also within myself at the same time. And
Speaker 2: it was it just it was just such an intense
Speaker 2: but like awkward situation because I didn't feel at all.
Speaker 1: The same way that she felt.
Speaker 2: I was trying to be mindful of her emotions and say, hey,
Speaker 2: this is how she feels, so I need to give
Speaker 2: weight to this scenario. But there was a disconnect because
Speaker 2: my brain was telling me, You've not even known this
Speaker 2: woman long enough for this to be like an actual,
Speaker 2: realistic response, like this is way out of the norm.
Speaker 3: It had only been five days since Laura's initial LinkedIn message,
Speaker 3: and yet Laura kept pushing, almost begging for Clayton to
Speaker 3: give her a chance.
Speaker 1: I finally got annoyed.
Speaker 2: I said, Laura, no means no, And when I said that,
Speaker 2: she went from crying to her face going completely stone cold.
Speaker 2: She stared at me and just shakes her head and goes, no,
Speaker 2: I get it. Thanks for letting me know, have a
Speaker 2: good rest of your day. Gave me a weird smile,
Speaker 2: opened the car door, closed it, walked off.
Speaker 3: Something about her reaction was deeply unsettling.
Speaker 1: I remember just getting chills over my entire body when.
Speaker 3: He told her he didn't want to hook up again.
Speaker 3: It was like a switch flipped.
Speaker 2: Something was off, because that look she gave me, It's
Speaker 2: like the lights went off in the house and she
Speaker 2: was no longer.
Speaker 1: There, not the version of Laura that I knew up
Speaker 1: until that point.
Speaker 3: Clayton knew he'd made a mistake, at least professionally, but
Speaker 3: he had no idea what he'd just stepped into.
Speaker 2: I sat there as I watched her walk back to
Speaker 2: her car, and I go, I don't know what that was.
Speaker 2: But whatever that was, that's not the end of it.
Speaker 3: The two biggest questions I get when I tell people
Speaker 3: about this story are was Laura a contestant on Clayton's
Speaker 3: season of The Bachelor? Which is an easy one to answer. No,
Speaker 3: That's usually always followed up with, then, who is Laura Owens?
Speaker 1: Truth? Be told.
Speaker 3: That's the question I've been trying to answer for the
Speaker 3: last six months. I've reached out to her former friends, teachers, attorneys, colleagues,
Speaker 3: and I'm either met with people who don't want anything
Speaker 3: to do with this, or they don't respond at all.
Speaker 3: And of course I reached out to Laura herself. At
Speaker 3: the time I'm recording this, she hasn't agreed to an interview,
Speaker 3: but she did send me along email. We'll get into
Speaker 3: that later. I want to start by playing you Laura's
Speaker 3: side of the story. What you're about to hear is
Speaker 3: the real Laura Owens telling the court her version of
Speaker 3: what happened with Clayton Eckerd.
Speaker 6: He was my realtor to start with, and then we
Speaker 6: were intimate one night in May of this year. After
Speaker 6: that long June first, I found out that I was pregnant,
Speaker 6: and I figured you probably wouldn't believe it, so I
Speaker 6: went to urgent Care and had it confirmed there by
Speaker 6: a doctor, and then I told him I hadn't been
Speaker 6: intimate with anyone else. Since March of twenty twenty two,
Speaker 6: I've tried to get Clayton to accept responsibility and figure
Speaker 6: out a parenting plan with me, but that's really been it.
Speaker 1: It's not like it's.
Speaker 6: Been a dating relationship, and we've communicated.
Speaker 1: Via email for the most part.
Speaker 3: I wanted to get a picture of who Laura is
Speaker 3: outside of this case. That turned out to be more
Speaker 3: elusive than I expected. The good news is Laura's been
Speaker 3: posting online for the better part of fifteen years. She's
Speaker 3: appeared in videos and podcasts, She's written medium articles, and
Speaker 3: was actively replying the comments on Reddit. One of the
Speaker 3: most interesting things she's appeared in is a series of
Speaker 3: YouTube videos where she's talking with one of her attorneys,
Speaker 3: David Jingris. We will be playing audio from videos David
Speaker 3: posted to his YouTube channel, which have since been pulled down. Fortunately,
Speaker 3: we were able to obtain a copy before they were removed.
Speaker 3: Here's the start of one of those videos. You'll hear
Speaker 3: David first.
Speaker 7: I think we need to have the public get to
Speaker 7: know you a little bit better. We need to do
Speaker 7: this a bit more often and try to try to
Speaker 7: take some control back of the narrative.
Speaker 3: In the videos, Laura's attorney asks her get to know
Speaker 3: you questions.
Speaker 7: I feel dirty like asking these questions because I just
Speaker 7: feel like it's nobody's effing business. But let's go ahead
Speaker 7: and talk about it, because I think you're okay with it.
Speaker 7: So let's talk about your high school dating career. I mean,
Speaker 7: my high school dating career is pretty damn exciting. Let's
Speaker 7: hear about yours.
Speaker 8: Mine was, I'm sure the opposite of yours. I had
Speaker 8: no boyfriends in high school. I didn't have my first
Speaker 8: kiss until the week before graduation.
Speaker 3: It's pretty uncommon for a lawyer to make social media
Speaker 3: content with a client, especially a client involved in a
Speaker 3: high profile scandal.
Speaker 1: I mean what I.
Speaker 7: Say as far as I want both sides of the
Speaker 7: story to be out there, and I don't people to
Speaker 7: be mad at anybody. You shouldn't be mad at Laura.
Speaker 7: I mean, Laura, look, obviously, if you lied and made
Speaker 7: the whole thing up, you know you deserve some punishment.
Speaker 7: I've said that all along that if that's what the
Speaker 7: facts bear out, I'm not going to stand by your side.
Speaker 7: I'm not here to defend people that do stuff like that.
Speaker 3: In these videos, her attorney, David does most of the talking.
Speaker 7: You're a little different.
Speaker 1: You know, you're a little different. I've said that you're
Speaker 1: a little different.
Speaker 7: I think you suffer from having an unbelievably high IQ.
Speaker 7: I think you're very, very bright girl, and I think
Speaker 7: you're just.
Speaker 1: A little different.
Speaker 3: Laura Owens grew up in San Francisco, where her parents
Speaker 3: were local celebrities.
Speaker 9: Good morning, I'm Ron Owens KGO Radio Monday through Friday,
Speaker 9: nine until noon, and today we were also on c SPAN,
Speaker 9: so you.
Speaker 3: Laura's father, Ron Owens, is a radio Hall of Famer.
Speaker 3: He hosted a popular radio talk show on KGO in
Speaker 3: San Francisco. It ran for over forty years.
Speaker 10: Ron was definitely at the top of the heap. He
Speaker 10: was a very trusted voice.
Speaker 3: That's longtime Bay Area reporter Martha ross I called her
Speaker 3: for some more context about Ron Owens and his show.
Speaker 10: He would always have the best political leaders on or
Speaker 10: like a movie star coming through, and you always felt
Speaker 10: like you would learn something.
Speaker 3: Laura's mom, Jan Black, was a drivetime news anchor at
Speaker 3: two local radio stations, KGO and KCBS. When Laura was
Speaker 3: a kid, her parents were kind of a media power
Speaker 3: couple in town.
Speaker 10: They would go to all the best restaurants, and when
Speaker 10: Ron was out at restaurants, he'd be recognized by fans.
Speaker 3: When then Senator Obama was starting his first presidential campaign.
Speaker 3: He went on the ron Owens Report.
Speaker 9: It's our number two ron Owens kg A radio in
Speaker 9: the studio Senator Barack Obama. Not much of a buzz
Speaker 9: around you, but it's interesting to have you on and
Speaker 9: it's very good to meet you.
Speaker 3: Ron Owens got an hour with Obama. I spoke to
Speaker 3: a former producer at KGO who told me about how
Speaker 3: other local reporters lined up down the hallway to try
Speaker 3: to get a clip from Obama. Afterwards, all that to
Speaker 3: say ron Owens was a big deal.
Speaker 9: If your president ninety days, I get the interview in
Speaker 9: the Oval Office with you.
Speaker 1: It's got to be in the Oval Office. I need
Speaker 1: to check with a secret services that allowed you will
Speaker 1: get an interview. You will get an interview in the
Speaker 1: first ninety day.
Speaker 3: You will get Her dad's fame is a big part
Speaker 3: of Laura's origin story. Here's another clip from Laura and
Speaker 3: her attorney.
Speaker 1: Your dad had a hell of a career. Is that
Speaker 1: him in Obama? Wow?
Speaker 7: Yeah, I had no idea when I got involved in
Speaker 7: this case. You know what kind of a career. I
Speaker 7: didn't know how significant of a broadcasting guy your dad was.
Speaker 3: While she never fully got into radio. Laura co hosted
Speaker 3: a podcast with her mom, Jan Black. It was a
Speaker 3: self help podcast and Laura's mom worked for Media Connections.
Speaker 3: They had famous guests on the podcast like Bob Saggett,
Speaker 3: Elizabeth Smart, and doctor Drew.
Speaker 11: Welcome to Nobody told me, I'm Jan Black.
Speaker 3: And I'm Laura Owens.
Speaker 11: We are a mother daughter duo and today we're a
Speaker 11: mother daughter trio as we're joined on this episode by
Speaker 11: my other daughter, Sarah Owens, my older daughter who is
Speaker 11: also Laura's sister.
Speaker 3: The Owens family is exceptionally tight knit. Laura's thirty five
Speaker 3: now she lives with her parents. From what she's posted online,
Speaker 3: she's talked about feeling socially isolated. Here's that video with
Speaker 3: her attorney again.
Speaker 8: It wasn't like I was the least popular kid in
Speaker 8: school or anything. I just really kept myself and I
Speaker 8: was just obsessed with the whole like horse showing, starting
Speaker 8: a business doing like flippicking horses and stuff. I was
Speaker 8: very different from everybody.
Speaker 3: When she says flipping horses, she means as a business.
Speaker 3: The Owens family runs a company called Coretet Farms. They buy, sell,
Speaker 3: and lease high end horses.
Speaker 1: You obviously are a horse person. When did that start?
Speaker 8: That started when I was eight and there was a
Speaker 8: stable that was just ten minutes away at the time
Speaker 8: in Golden Gate Park, so it was convenient.
Speaker 3: These show horses can cost up to eighty thousand dollars.
Speaker 3: They can be a risky investment, but Laura's family seem
Speaker 3: to have the money. Here's her dad Ron in a
Speaker 3: twenty thirteen interview.
Speaker 9: My daughters are twenty two and twenty four. The younger
Speaker 9: one is very much into country music and horses, which
Speaker 9: have enabled me to go broke pretty much.
Speaker 1: And I'm very proud of her. But damn, that's expensive.
Speaker 3: She's been competing in horse shows for her entire life.
Speaker 3: She's actually really good. She's won numerous competitions. The Owens
Speaker 3: family clearly has a soft spot for animals. Here's a
Speaker 3: clip from Laura's podcast with her mom. They had her
Speaker 3: dad on for a Father's Day episode.
Speaker 8: What were the first things that we talked about that
Speaker 8: you and I talked about?
Speaker 1: Probably no.
Speaker 3: Animals.
Speaker 9: Probably animals because you loved every animal and you have
Speaker 9: really done in number with me. Because now I'm as
Speaker 9: bad as you are. I just I just look at
Speaker 9: every animal and I get every dog and then yeah,
Speaker 9: just bring them on.
Speaker 3: I talked to someone who works at a San Francisco
Speaker 3: dog rescue. They told me that over the years, the
Speaker 3: Owens family has adopted eleven senior dogs near the end
Speaker 3: of their lives. Here's Laura showing off her senior dog
Speaker 3: to her attorney.
Speaker 1: Let's see the dog.
Speaker 6: Here's one of the dogs.
Speaker 1: What's his name is Captain.
Speaker 6: He's the one who's a million years old.
Speaker 3: In terms of her career, Laura's mostly worked for her
Speaker 3: family businesses, either the horse farm or the podcast with
Speaker 3: her mom. At one time, Laura's LinkedIn profile listed her
Speaker 3: as a radio dating and relationship expert and songwriter.
Speaker 9: My younger daughter is on the cusp of becoming a
Speaker 9: country music singer. She has written songs and she is
Speaker 9: in the midst of mastering this first song. And I
Speaker 9: gotta tell you it's phenomenal.
Speaker 3: That was Laura's dad, Ron, talking about Laura's singing career
Speaker 3: in an interview. She's posted some of her music online.
Speaker 3: Here's a clip from one of Laura's songs, h No lascut.
Speaker 3: It's called Dogs True.
Speaker 1: You rescued me, You rescued me.
Speaker 3: Laura and I are around the same age, and honestly,
Speaker 3: on paper, she had it all. She had the kind
Speaker 3: of privileged upbringing people dream of, and yet I got
Speaker 3: the sense that she was still searching for something. What
Speaker 3: really struck me during my research, though, was the silence.
Speaker 3: In the bachelor world, there's almost always someone willing to
Speaker 3: stick up for both sides, but as I reached out
Speaker 3: to people, hardly anyone would go to bat for her.
Speaker 3: There was one person who gave me a substantial response
Speaker 3: about Laura. It was a former friend of hers. This
Speaker 3: friend asked me not to use her name, she didn't
Speaker 3: want to participate in the podcast, but in response to me,
Speaker 3: she wrote something cryptic. She said, I'm not really the
Speaker 3: type to follow this stuff, but I do know innately
Speaker 3: that people are fighting their own battles, and I think compassion,
Speaker 3: even in the face of deep frustration, goes a long way.
Speaker 3: I think she's referring to battles Laura's facing internally, battles
Speaker 3: that would soon be on full display.
Speaker 12: My name is Laura Owens, and I just feel like
Speaker 12: it's important for me to speak out and say that
Speaker 12: this is this is how I'm feeling as a result
Speaker 12: of what they've done to me. And this is how
Speaker 12: it looks like if you've been cyberbullied as I have
Speaker 12: mischaracterized for months.
Speaker 3: Clayton was sitting in his car trying to process the
Speaker 3: conversation he just had with Laura. He told her he
Speaker 3: wasn't interested in continuing any type of romantic relationship with her.
Speaker 2: When he said that, Laura said, no, I get it,
Speaker 2: have a great day. She got out of my car.
Speaker 2: She slammed that car door. I remember just getting chills
Speaker 2: over my entire body.
Speaker 3: Clayton drove away, and he was relieved but disturbed.
Speaker 2: It was a very very unsettling feeling. And I just
Speaker 2: remember thinking, I don't know what that was, but whatever
Speaker 2: that was, it's not over. There's something more that's to
Speaker 2: come from all of this.
Speaker 3: Within a couple of hours, his phone began blowing up
Speaker 3: with texts from Laura.
Speaker 1: She liked, well, what if we just go out and
Speaker 1: grab drinks.
Speaker 2: Let's just like not jump too far ahead, you know,
Speaker 2: And I said, hey, like, we can go out and
Speaker 2: grab drinks once we end up getting the deal done.
Speaker 3: But Laura wasn't getting the message. She kept asking for
Speaker 3: a chance. Her texts are being read by a voice actor.
Speaker 5: I honestly didn't expect to like you as much as
Speaker 5: I did, and I'm very sad that you pretty much
Speaker 5: closed the door. I truly have no expectations except to
Speaker 5: see if that naturally develops without your halting it. I'm
Speaker 5: just asking you to It pains me that you won't
Speaker 5: even consider giving me a chance. I tried a lot
Speaker 5: of things, but you haven't tried me who actually empathizes
Speaker 5: and has been in dark spots like you've been in
Speaker 5: and got What if you just honestly and openly gave
Speaker 5: it a week to be open to something maybe eventually
Speaker 5: happening with absolutely no expectations.
Speaker 3: Clayton let Laura down gently again, apologized to Laura and
Speaker 3: reiterated that he just wanted to be friends.
Speaker 1: She was texting me a lot, and it was just overwhelming,
Speaker 1: but also like really weird.
Speaker 3: Clayton told me he started to feel uncomfortable, but he
Speaker 3: was still trying to make his first real estate sale,
Speaker 3: and Laura was still adamant about Clayton being her realtor.
Speaker 3: She asked to look at another problem, so Clayton set
Speaker 3: it up and met Laura there a couple days.
Speaker 2: Later at the time, I was new to real estate,
Speaker 2: so I didn't know what to look for as far
Speaker 2: as understanding how serious someone is purchasing a home.
Speaker 1: There are obvious signs.
Speaker 2: People will like open drawers, they'll like close every cabinet,
Speaker 2: see if it's soft clothes, but they're looking behind every
Speaker 2: little corner.
Speaker 1: She wasn't doing that.
Speaker 3: Laura seemed less interested in the house and more interested
Speaker 3: in Clayton.
Speaker 2: We were walking through the house, and I remember it
Speaker 2: had a couch that I ended up sitting down on
Speaker 2: to talk with her about the house if she liked it.
Speaker 2: She ended up sitting down right next to me, like
Speaker 2: as if we were dating. There was no distance between us,
Speaker 2: and she ended up like resting her head on my shoulder.
Speaker 3: As you can imagine, Clayton was frustrated that she wasn't
Speaker 3: respecting his boundaries.
Speaker 1: She wasn't listening to what I was saying. But again,
Speaker 1: I wanted my money.
Speaker 3: He's talking about the real estate commission he would get
Speaker 3: from the sale.
Speaker 2: I just need to get through this next month and
Speaker 2: then it's goodbye.
Speaker 1: I have a great one.
Speaker 3: But once they went their separate ways after seeing the property,
Speaker 3: the texts continued.
Speaker 5: Would you be really mad if I told you that
Speaker 5: you looked super handsome, and that, combined with you being
Speaker 5: super confident and smart about everything, made it hard to
Speaker 5: keep my hands to myself. If that makes you mad,
Speaker 5: I'm really sorry. I want to respect your boundaries, but
Speaker 5: I didn't know if that was maybe a somewhat reciprocated feeling.
Speaker 5: And I can't stop thinking about how much I want
Speaker 5: to do to you what I did the other night.
Speaker 3: Laura was ignoring the lines Clayton had drawn, so he.
Speaker 2: Told her, let's keep this friendly amongst one another, like,
Speaker 2: only talk to me in the way that you would
Speaker 2: talk to me as if I were a friend.
Speaker 3: Despite being frustrated with Laura's behavior, Clayton was really trying
Speaker 3: to give her the benefit of the doubt so he
Speaker 3: could help her buy investment properties. The real estate process
Speaker 3: was typically pretty easy to navigate.
Speaker 2: Honestly, writing a real estate contract, putting an offer on
Speaker 2: a house is very simple. You go see the house,
Speaker 2: then afterwards you sit there with your realitor and you say,
Speaker 2: I want to write an offer at these terms. So
Speaker 2: you put down the amount of money you want to offer,
Speaker 2: whether you're doing cash or loan, And that's really it,
Speaker 2: and you said I'd like to close on this date.
Speaker 2: And then you take that formal document, you email it
Speaker 2: to the listing agent, and there you go.
Speaker 1: You have an official offer.
Speaker 3: This process with Laura wasn't simple. She told Clayton she
Speaker 3: wanted to make some offers and asked him to write
Speaker 3: up the contracts, but she continued to complicate things.
Speaker 2: She said, thinking about it, like, if you're not going
Speaker 2: to give me a chance, there's so many other agents
Speaker 2: out there that I could work with instead of you.
Speaker 3: By now, Clayton was convinced Laura had no interest in
Speaker 3: actually buying property. He told her he'd get the contracts ready,
Speaker 3: but because he didn't trust her, he hadn't actually done it.
Speaker 2: I knew that she wasn't actually serious about buying the homes.
Speaker 2: She was just using the contracts to stay in touch
Speaker 2: with me and to try to continue a connection.
Speaker 3: That's when Clayton hit his breaking point.
Speaker 2: So I said, you know what, Laura, I'm going to
Speaker 2: make a decision to cut this off. I'm going to
Speaker 2: send you to one of my co workers and they
Speaker 2: can help you from here on out.
Speaker 3: Laura did not like that at all, so she took
Speaker 3: matters into her own hands. She messaged the selling agents
Speaker 3: directly to check the status of her offers, and since
Speaker 3: Clayton didn't actually submit her contracts, she was given the
Speaker 3: news that they didn't exist.
Speaker 1: And there went the first oh shit moment.
Speaker 2: She's clinging onto this contract, and that opened the door
Speaker 2: to the pressure that she could put on me to
Speaker 2: be like, why are they saying this, Why don't they
Speaker 2: have offers?
Speaker 1: You said you sent them. Did you lie to me?
Speaker 2: Because you'd be violating your fiduciary responsibilities. Now because I'm
Speaker 2: not dating her, she's going to try to get my
Speaker 2: license revoked.
Speaker 3: And to make a long story short, that's exactly what
Speaker 3: Laura did. A few weeks later, she reached out to
Speaker 3: the Arizona Department of Real Estate to file a complaint.
Speaker 2: On paper, I violated a fiducia responsibility. I lied to
Speaker 2: a client, which I admit I did, but I told
Speaker 2: them with good purpose, with good reason. I sent them
Speaker 2: over all of those text messages I had upuntil that point,
Speaker 2: and it was very apparent that this woman was just
Speaker 2: trying to date me and she had no intention of
Speaker 2: buying real estate.
Speaker 3: And while the Arizona Department of Real Estate believed his
Speaker 3: side of the story. They also found him in violation.
Speaker 1: With that information.
Speaker 2: They stated that, yes, while you were in the wrong,
Speaker 2: we will not be pursuing any type of punishment. So
Speaker 2: I got off basically without any.
Speaker 1: Bumps or bruises.
Speaker 3: Clayton had his suspicions about Laura and felt he needed
Speaker 3: to dig a little bit deeper. What he found on
Speaker 3: her Instagram validated his beliefs.
Speaker 2: She followed only athletes and celebrities and good looking guys.
Speaker 2: She was absolutely targeting a man and had a particular
Speaker 2: type that she.
Speaker 3: Was after Clayton removed himself as Laura's realtor five days
Speaker 3: after they hooked up. At this point, he had rejected
Speaker 3: her romantically and now professionally. He told her he would
Speaker 3: not be responding to any further texts from her. That
Speaker 3: didn't stop Laura. She immediately responded with a long text message,
Speaker 3: We've had it read by a voice actor.
Speaker 5: I have one final thing to say that I think
Speaker 5: you might find important and have nothing to lose by
Speaker 5: sharing it with you. I have been in a dark place,
Speaker 5: as I said yesterday, and emotionally tortured since we hooked
Speaker 5: up because I felt like I didn't know how to
Speaker 5: bring this up to you, but at this point I
Speaker 5: might as well. I have not been on birth control
Speaker 5: since fifteen months ago. There hasn't been a reason since.
Speaker 5: As I said, I hadn't done anything with anyone since then.
Speaker 5: Being sexually responsible was not on my radar. After taking
Speaker 5: the gummy and our clothes coming off, when I went
Speaker 5: to the bathroom afterwards, some of your fluids were down there.
Speaker 3: That is Laura's version of what happened in the bathroom
Speaker 3: after her hookup with Clayton. Later, her account of this
Speaker 3: night would change dramatically, but her text continued with Laura saying.
Speaker 5: In all honesty, I was planning to take Plan B
Speaker 5: when I got home, But then when you said you
Speaker 5: were going to church, I realized you had a strong
Speaker 5: faith base as well, and questioned whether or not it
Speaker 5: was a sign that I should. Then, after we talked
Speaker 5: in the car, I felt even more so, like both
Speaker 5: of us had a deep belief in God, and like
Speaker 5: it was a sign I should just leave it up
Speaker 5: to him and not buy it.
Speaker 3: Laura was now bringing religion into the conversation.
Speaker 1: I knew what she was doing.
Speaker 2: I mean, she was trying to weaponize Christianity against me.
Speaker 2: She wanted me to start to think, like, what would
Speaker 2: God think about this?
Speaker 3: Laura's text continued on the next paragraph, included a kind
Speaker 3: of forewarning.
Speaker 5: My podcast had a fertility test kit as a sponsor,
Speaker 5: and so yes, I know I'm fertile at this point
Speaker 5: from my overwhelming research on Plan B since Sunday, it's
Speaker 5: most effective three days after, but can still work five
Speaker 5: days out, meaning this is the last day I could
Speaker 5: take it and have a hope of it working if
Speaker 5: it needs to. If you have any thoughts about this,
Speaker 5: I'm open to hearing you out if and only if
Speaker 5: you are kind and respectful. This has been extremely stressful
Speaker 5: on me. If I don't hear back from you, I'm
Speaker 5: not going to take Plan B.
Speaker 3: When I read the full transcript of their texts from
Speaker 3: these early weeks, I was overwhelmed. There's an increasing urgency
Speaker 3: in her tone, and she's starting to set conditions and
Speaker 3: deadlines for Clayton. He told me that he tried to
Speaker 3: remain calm in his replies and give her as little
Speaker 3: emotional response as possible. He felt uncomfortable being asked to
Speaker 3: make a decision about Plan B. She knew her own
Speaker 3: body better than he did to me.
Speaker 2: It's a woman in her body, so ultimately I don't
Speaker 2: really have much of a say in it, and I
Speaker 2: never really push. I'm just like, hey, if you're comfortable,
Speaker 2: then yeah, take it. It would make me feel more comfortable.
Speaker 2: And that's usually how it goes. It's very simple, so
Speaker 2: this was obviously way way different.
Speaker 1: Laura was being.
Speaker 2: Very odd about it, putting way too much on me
Speaker 2: to make the decision.
Speaker 5: She concludes a text message with You're obviously free to
Speaker 5: think that I'm full of shit, but I'm not. I'll
Speaker 5: take it as a sign that you don't care what
Speaker 5: happens either way, and will just allow God's will, whatever
Speaker 5: that is, to be the determining factor. If I do
Speaker 5: test positive in a few weeks, though there is a
Speaker 5: zero percent chance of it being anyone's but yours, I'd
Speaker 5: take any test to prove it, and at that point
Speaker 5: any input from you won't matter.
Speaker 3: Clayton's response was direct and simple.
Speaker 1: I gave her a really quick answer, just take the
Speaker 1: plan B. I support that.
Speaker 3: After Clayton sent that message, Laura responded with another lengthy
Speaker 3: text that was similar to the one before it. That's
Speaker 3: when Clayton blocked her, but shortly after she messaged him
Speaker 3: from another phone number.
Speaker 2: This is where it was a whirlwind of text messages.
Speaker 2: She's probably text me twenty five thirty times a day.
Speaker 2: It was getting ridiculous.
Speaker 5: Hi, it's Laura, and this is my work number. Having
Speaker 5: issues with my personal number when I tried to send this.
Speaker 5: If you think I'm trying to hold on, you need
Speaker 5: to check your ego. I'm not lying. And if you
Speaker 5: think I haven't been tortured about whether or not to
Speaker 5: take Plan B, you're crazy. I think you're confusing me
Speaker 5: with girls who come from a very different background than mine.
Speaker 5: Don't tell me. I can't keep my story straight when
Speaker 5: I don't have one. I have the truth, which isn't changing.
Speaker 5: I wasn't quite as high as you were, and definitely
Speaker 5: remember what happened and what I found. Heuled it because
Speaker 5: I didn't know if it was possible to get pregnant
Speaker 5: without intercourse.
Speaker 3: It is.
Speaker 5: I think we're both panicked and not in the right mindset.
Speaker 5: You're not acting great, but neither am I. If I
Speaker 5: am in fact pregnant, blocking my number won't prevent you
Speaker 5: from knowing about it. Trust me, you will find out
Speaker 5: right away despite that, and I won't be having an
Speaker 5: abortion under any circumstances.
Speaker 3: It felt like Laura was getting ahead of herself, since
Speaker 3: at that point she didn't even know if she was
Speaker 3: actually pregnant. Clayton decided to block her other number as well,
Speaker 3: but Laura didn't let that stop her. She had promised
Speaker 3: he'd find out the news one way or another, and
Speaker 3: she stayed true to her word. Eleven days after they
Speaker 3: met up, she sent him an email with the news
Speaker 3: that she was pregnant.
Speaker 2: If I remember correctly, I was in my apartment and
Speaker 2: the email comes through and I open it and it
Speaker 2: says if like everything went blank. I couldn't make sense
Speaker 2: of what I was reading. I didn't think that it
Speaker 2: was real.
Speaker 3: Clayton was hell bent on the fact that he and
Speaker 3: Laura never had sex, so this really didn't make sense
Speaker 3: to him.
Speaker 2: At this point in my life, this isn't my first
Speaker 2: hook up, it's not my first rodeo.
Speaker 3: Clayton was spiraling and decided to switch gears. He asked
Speaker 3: Laura for permission to speak with her mom, Jan Black,
Speaker 3: which Laura agreed to, so Clayton called Jan to tell
Speaker 3: her what was going on. With her daughter.
Speaker 2: I said, here's the main sticking point. Your daughter is
Speaker 2: telling me that she is going to have a child
Speaker 2: unless I date her. So if I date her, she'll
Speaker 2: get an abortion. But if I don't date her, she's
Speaker 2: having a child.
Speaker 3: At this point, this was Clayton's understanding of Laura's demands.
Speaker 3: It made him uncomfortable, which is why he wanted to
Speaker 3: speak with her mom.
Speaker 1: I said, it's her body, her choice.
Speaker 3: Clayton explained to Jan that he respected Laura's decision to
Speaker 3: keep the baby or not. He made it clear that
Speaker 3: he did not want involvement in Laura's life, which also
Speaker 3: meant raising the baby. But the biggest point he wanted
Speaker 3: to make in all of this to Laura's mom was
Speaker 3: the following.
Speaker 2: Here's the problem I have, and I think you would
Speaker 2: agree with me that, like, she shouldn't have a child
Speaker 2: based on whether or not somebody wants to date her.
Speaker 3: He expected Jan to understand his concern, after all, this
Speaker 3: was her grandchild in question. He wanted Jan to speak
Speaker 3: with Laura and help her come to a decision.
Speaker 2: Her response was, well, you know what, to be honest
Speaker 2: with you, it's just really disappointing to hear, because you know,
Speaker 2: you are responsible for impregnating my daughter, and she's a
Speaker 2: really great girl. I think you would see that if
Speaker 2: you were to give her a chance, but you just
Speaker 2: haven't given her a chance at all. And so I'm
Speaker 2: just really, you know, honestly disappointed that this is the
Speaker 2: route you're going to go, because my daughter has a
Speaker 2: lot of great qualities and you haven't given her any
Speaker 2: chance to.
Speaker 1: Prove that to you.
Speaker 3: Clayton was almost too stunned to speak.
Speaker 1: I think I said something long lines of like excuse me.
Speaker 2: I'm like, you're telling me that you think that's okay,
Speaker 2: and she goes, yeah, again, my daughter is an incredible woman,
Speaker 2: but you're not giving her any chance, which I think
Speaker 2: is so unfair, and so I was just like, oh, okay,
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, this isn't at all hi. I thought
Speaker 2: the conversation was going to go, thank you for your time,
Speaker 2: and have a great rest of your day.
Speaker 3: This phone call made him feel like he was in
Speaker 3: the twilight zone.
Speaker 1: And I hung up and I was just like, are
Speaker 1: you fking kidding me?
Speaker 3: Clayton reached out to Laura's mom, hoping for a lifeline
Speaker 3: that never came. Feeling backed into a corner and panicking.
Speaker 3: His gut told him this whole thing was bullshit. He
Speaker 3: stayed firm in his belief that there was no way
Speaker 3: he'd impregnated her, but he needed proof he could see
Speaker 3: with his own eyes. A week later, he invited Laura
Speaker 3: over again with one goal in mind. He wanted her
Speaker 3: to take a pregnancy test right in front of him.
Speaker 3: She brought one with her, but Clayton had purchased one
Speaker 3: of his own, just to be sure.
Speaker 2: So she goes into the bathroom and she goes to
Speaker 2: close the door, and I go, oh, no, no, I said,
Speaker 2: I want to see you pee on the stick. She goes, what,
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, No, I can't do that. There's no
Speaker 2: way I'll be able to pee if you're watching me.
Speaker 3: As suspicious as Clayton was, he was trying to make
Speaker 3: sure she wasn't altering the test in any way, but
Speaker 3: he understood why it would make her uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: I used to have to do drug tests in college
Speaker 2: when I played football, and we would literally have to
Speaker 2: drop our pants and have somebody stand there and look
Speaker 2: at us pee like someone's standing right over our shoulder,
Speaker 2: And it was so uncomfortable.
Speaker 3: Clayton said, Laura agreed to a plan where he'd close
Speaker 3: the bathroom door once she started to go.
Speaker 2: She finishes and she walks out and she's like, all right,
Speaker 2: it takes like five minutes.
Speaker 3: If you've ever taken a pregnancy test or how to
Speaker 3: partner take a pregnancy test, you know that waiting for
Speaker 3: the result, whatever result you want it to be, feels
Speaker 3: like a lifetime.
Speaker 1: I'm haunched over the sink.
Speaker 2: Laura's standing right off to my left, and it was
Speaker 2: just quiet. It was just her and I just the
Speaker 2: two of us looking at that pregnancy test and waiting
Speaker 2: for the results.
Speaker 1: One line shows up right away.
Speaker 3: His stomach dropped. He sat there staring at it, waiting
Speaker 3: to see if the second line would appear.
Speaker 2: It was one of the scariest moments of my life
Speaker 2: because you're looking at a little indicator and either your
Speaker 2: life changes forever or it doesn't. If two lines show up,
Speaker 2: my life is forever changed, and there's no one between.
Speaker 2: It's literally one extreme.
Speaker 1: To the other. And then the second line starts coming in.
Speaker 3: The test was positive. Laura started to console Clayton.
Speaker 1: She's just like, how are you feeling.
Speaker 2: She starts rubbing my back because I'm leaning over at
Speaker 2: this point, I'm leaning over the sink and I'm just
Speaker 2: in disbelief. I had my hand pressing against my forehead
Speaker 2: and I'm just like elbows on the countertop. I just
Speaker 2: remember staring at the lines and seeing it's positive and thinking,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, I am going to be connected to.
Speaker 1: This woman forever.
Speaker 3: With Laura standing right behind him, Clayton felt the last
Speaker 3: bit of hope slip away. There was no more arguing
Speaker 3: with the evidence.
Speaker 2: Like holy shit, like she's actually pregnant. This is really real,
Speaker 2: Or at least that's what I thought of the time.
Speaker 3: But in the coming months, Layton would begin to question everything.
Speaker 3: Something doesn't seem right with this story.
Speaker 1: The dating contract, stalker ish behavior. She sent me over
Speaker 1: five hundred femails and text messages.
Speaker 3: She makes up all these characters, and she creates fake personas.
Speaker 1: Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. This
Speaker 1: is unlike anything I've ever seen before.
Speaker 4: It's just chaos.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to
Speaker 3: follow Love Trapped on Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, spot,
Speaker 3: or wherever you get your podcasts, and please leave us
Speaker 3: a review of five star rating helps others find this show.
Speaker 3: We're grateful for your support. If you would like to
Speaker 3: reach out to the Love Trapped team, email us at
Speaker 3: Love Trapped Pod at gmail dot com. That's Love Trapped
Speaker 3: Pod at gmail dot com. Love Trapped is a production
Speaker 3: of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in
Speaker 3: partnership with iHeart Podcasts. This show was executive produced by
Speaker 3: Nancy Glass, Andrea Gunning and Ben Fetterman, written, produced and
Speaker 3: hosted by me Stephanie Young. Our story editor is Monique Labord.
Speaker 3: Additional production support from Sidney Gladoo and Todd Gans. Our
Speaker 3: production manager is Kristin Melchiri. For iHeart Podcasts, Ali Perry
Speaker 3: was our executive producer. Audio editing and mastering by Anna
Speaker 3: McClain and Matt Delvecchio. Additional editing support by Zach Proto.
Speaker 3: Thank you to our voice actor Leslie Tlly. This podcast
Speaker 3: was developed in collaboration with Danny Passman and Lev Abramoff
Speaker 3: at Crybaby Media. The Love Traft theme is composed by
Speaker 3: Oliver Bains. Music library provided by Mybe Music. A special
Speaker 3: thanks to Carrie Lieberman, Will Pearson, Jessica Crincheck, Ali Canter
Speaker 3: and the entire iHeart podcast team, and for more podcasts
Speaker 3: from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 3: you get your podcasts.