1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: I'm Greg Store in our Washington studios along with June 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: Grosso and Michael Best in New York. You're listening to 3 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Law. President Trump's immigration announcement to Friday is bringing 4 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: the technology industry together in anger like never before. Google, Microsoft, Twitter, 5 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: and Facebook are just a few of the companies that 6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: have slammed the executive order, and Donald Trump maybe just 7 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: getting warmed up. Bloomberg has obtained a copy of a 8 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: draft executive order that would overhaul the work visa program 9 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: that companies depend on to hire tens of thousands of 10 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: employees every year. With us to discuss how Donald Trump's 11 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: moves on immigration are playing in Silicon Valley is Bloomberg 12 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: News tech reporter Eric Newcomer. He's joining us from our 13 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: nine sixties studio in San Francisco. Eric, thanks for joining us. 14 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: Tell us why tech companies are so upset about the 15 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: immigration order that the President issued on Friday. And these 16 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: are these are fundamentally global companies, both in the center 17 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: that they sell to people around the world and their 18 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 1: employees come from all over the world. So I think this, 19 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: you know, is just sort of contrary to their very 20 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 1: sort of self conception of who they are and what 21 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: America is. So that's sort of part one and then 22 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: partuna sort of purely sort of rational business calculus. You know, 23 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: these companies depend on uh, foreign workers and sophisticated software 24 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,320 Speaker 1: engineers from all over the world. You know, I think 25 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: all over Twitter we're seeing you know that Steve jobs 26 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: biological father was from Syria. You know, many of these 27 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: companies were built by people from overseas. So I think 28 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: sort of this this move just is really sort of 29 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: outline with how sort of text sees the world. Eric 30 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: tell us about this executive order that's being prepared that 31 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: will overhaul the H one B VISA programs, right, I mean, 32 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: you know, like all these executive orders, their questions about 33 00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: you know, where it falls compared to what Congress is 34 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: able to do you and the power of the executive 35 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: order itself. But it would certainly sort of indicate a 36 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 1: strong desire from the administration to crack down on the 37 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: H one B VISA program, which lets high skill workers 38 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 1: come to the United States and you know predominantly work 39 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: for US tech companies as you know, software engineers and executives. 40 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: So this is you know, a key program. If if 41 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: I remember correctly. I think Uber's own acting chief financial officer, 42 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:32,399 Speaker 1: at least for a time head an H one B visa. 43 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: You know, this is a sort of key device all 44 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: through the ranks for tech companies to get foreign workers. 45 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 1: And you know, the Trump administration would try and uh 46 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: sort of crack down on that device. Eric, as I 47 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: understand the H one B program, companies are already supposed 48 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: to uh look the higher American workers first before they 49 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: bring in somebody from abroad. Is that right? And if so, 50 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: what would this what's the point of this executive order? Yeah? 51 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 1: That that that is my understanding. I think there are 52 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:09,359 Speaker 1: sort of fair questions, uh, sort of about how hard 53 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: you have to work to find the American worker. We 54 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: of course, you know, see the same question come up 55 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: when it comes to sort of diverse hiring practices for 56 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: tech companies within America as well. You know, are they 57 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:25,279 Speaker 1: doing enough to find software engineers from sort of underprivileged 58 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,799 Speaker 1: minorities within the United States? So this this question sort 59 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: of comes up on all sides, whether they're doing enough 60 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: to find sort of local talent. I'm not sure the 61 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: exact standard they used to set, whether they've looked at enough. 62 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: I imagine it's you know, something that would have to 63 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: sort of get fought out on the courts. So so yeah, 64 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: I don't think it's sort of clear how how you 65 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: sort of sort of up the standard, but that's certainly 66 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: the desire here. Well, Eric sim have said that they 67 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: think that these tech firms actually just sometimes at least 68 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: use the HB and VISA program to get less expensive 69 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: workers than they would otherwise have to get in the 70 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: United States. How much legitimacy is there to that complaint, Yeah, 71 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: that's definitely a criticism you hear a lot. I mean, 72 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: it fits in with the question of whether they're looking 73 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: hard enough to find so the workers that are out there, 74 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: I mean the way I mean Facebook loves to talk about, 75 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 1: for example, you know the ten exer, this software engineer 76 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: that is so valuable that he does the work of 77 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 1: you know, ten other employees. So I think there's this 78 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: feeling that for really really top talent there valuable in 79 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: a way that some other software engineer that you might 80 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: find isn't isn't as valuable. So I think, you know, 81 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: they're they're sort of it's hard to second guess some 82 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 1: of these hiring decisions they make. And then in a 83 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,359 Speaker 1: similar vein. You know, when you commit to the H 84 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: one B visa, you're sort of tying yourself up with 85 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: that company, which gives the company much more leverage over 86 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: you and potentially the ability to pay you under market 87 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: because you can't really leave. So I think there's there's 88 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: definitely some validity to the question over whether they're able 89 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: to pay these H one B vis workers less because 90 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: of the leverage they have. Eric, we really have about 91 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 1: thirty seconds, but could you just give us a little 92 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: bit of a flavor of what companies are all out 93 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: there are already having to do and what they're planning 94 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 1: on doing to adjust to this new reality. I think 95 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 1: right now really is really the word I would use 96 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley, even to the initial sort of refugee Bannitt, 97 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: you know, Took, I think protesters really getting out into 98 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: the airports until you saw sort of the tumble of 99 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 1: responses from these tech companies. You know, many of them 100 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: had hired up staffs preparing for a democratic administration. So 101 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: I think to some degree it's catching them flatfooted and 102 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: they're trying to figure out how to react. And I assume, 103 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: you know, part of it is just going to be 104 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: to put heat on the administration ahead of this and 105 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: try and block and he moved to to restrict the 106 00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: H one B visa program. Okay, I want to thank 107 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: thank guest Eric H. Newcomer from our San Francisco Bloomberg studio.