Speaker 1: A deep dive on the sudden coaching change in Milwaukee
Speaker 1: Adrian Griffin, Doc Rivers, all things Bucks. We will get
Speaker 1: into that, as well as some talk about the All
Speaker 1: Star starters and pizza. All that to come next here
Speaker 1: on this League Uncut.
Speaker 2: Welcome to this League uncut.
Speaker 1: Can you rule a twenty four hour NBA news?
Speaker 2: This's you'll, Chris Haynes, it's time, Mark Stein, It's so time.
Speaker 2: This League Uncut is underway and on fire.
Speaker 1: This should be a good one. Hey, everyone, welcome into
Speaker 1: the latest edition of This League Uncut. Mark Stein here
Speaker 1: with Chris Haynes. We are recording on Thursday night. It's
Speaker 1: our first chance to connect Chris and I a wild
Speaker 1: Tuesday night in the Association. Tuesday, of course, Chris was
Speaker 1: working the sidelines for Clippers at Lakers in the Los
Speaker 1: Angeles Darby Except. Earlier Tuesday, the whole NBA was rocked
Speaker 1: by the news that the Milwaukee Bucks abruptly dismissed first
Speaker 1: year coach Adrian Griffin. It took them another day roughly
Speaker 1: to hash out a deal with Doc Rivers to take
Speaker 1: over as the Bucks' new coach. We've talked a ton
Speaker 1: about the Bucks this season, but we really got to
Speaker 1: get into this now because this one was again a
Speaker 1: pretty seismic story in the NBA. We've since seen another
Speaker 1: coaching change. On Thursday, Washington announced that Wes Unsel Junior
Speaker 1: is going to be moving into a front office role.
Speaker 1: Brian Keith has been handed the interim coaching title with
Speaker 1: the Wizards, But the first coaching change of the season
Speaker 1: happens with a team that was thirty and thirteen at
Speaker 1: the time of the move, only the Cleveland Cavaliers with
Speaker 1: David Blatt eight years and a day earlier. Who will
Speaker 1: forget the Cavaliers ousting David Blatt and replacing him with
Speaker 1: Tearan Lu halfway through a season that saw the Cavaliers
Speaker 1: go all the way to the championship and from three
Speaker 1: to one down in the finals, erase the Cleveland curse
Speaker 1: that had lasted more than fifty years, the Cavs coming
Speaker 1: from three to one down under Tylu to win the
Speaker 1: first and only championship in franchise history in twenty sixteen.
Speaker 1: Chris Haynes, you know the Bucks as well as anyone,
Speaker 1: So gotta get your reaction, your insight here, because look,
Speaker 1: we've talked about it a bazillion times on this show.
Speaker 1: We've been talking about it since October, since Terry Stotts
Speaker 1: abruptly left the coaching staff before we even got to
Speaker 1: opening night. But even with all the tumult and as
Speaker 1: often as we've talked about the Bucks and what they've
Speaker 1: been going through this season, there was still a huge
Speaker 1: part of me that I didn't think we were going
Speaker 1: to see an in season coaching changed. Maybe I was
Speaker 1: too naive. Tell me where I misread.
Speaker 2: Things, Well, you weren't. You were not alone. I was
Speaker 2: a little bit naive as well. But I will say
Speaker 2: that I was here in the last couple of weeks.
Speaker 2: I was hearing something could go down. I didn't take
Speaker 2: it seriously. The reason I didn't take it seriously, and
Speaker 2: maybe I should have. But listen, let me tell you
Speaker 2: stein you brought up. Excuse me, Prince, my dog is
Speaker 2: making an appearance. He's barking at somebody back there in
Speaker 2: my yard.
Speaker 1: Prince cannot believe we're talking about the Bucks again.
Speaker 2: So Stott, I was covering that. I was the beat
Speaker 2: writer for that Cass team when they ousted Black in January,
Speaker 2: and they had a good record at the time too.
Speaker 2: The Cass so this is similar, very similar. But I
Speaker 2: will say yes, I was hearing things last few weeks
Speaker 2: of Adrian Griffin's tenure with the Bucks, and I didn't
Speaker 2: believe it. The reason why I didn't believe it or
Speaker 2: take it seriously was they were already paying coach Bootonholzer,
Speaker 2: who I think is making around eight million a year.
Speaker 2: I think he has a few years left on his deal,
Speaker 2: you know, then Adrian Griffin's salary. Then I was like,
Speaker 2: they will, they would, they would hire I was thinking
Speaker 2: to myself, they would hire another head coach, because I
Speaker 2: was thinking like, if they did hire another head coach,
Speaker 2: it would have to be a high profile coach. You're
Speaker 2: not making a I'm not gonna say a mistake, but
Speaker 2: you're not going in that same direction of hiring a
Speaker 2: someone who's probably inexperience to high level players. So it
Speaker 2: had to be another a high profile coach, and then
Speaker 2: you have to pay him a high profile salary. So
Speaker 2: I'm like, they would pay three head coaches at the
Speaker 2: same time. I just didn't think that would happen. Well,
Speaker 2: it happened, and what I was being told and all
Speaker 2: the signs I would hear turned out to be accurate.
Speaker 2: So I say all that to say this is that
Speaker 2: it was explained to me because I didn't understand the move.
Speaker 2: It was explained to me that when they hire Adrian
Speaker 2: Griffin Stein, you can tell me what you heard as well.
Speaker 2: When they hire Adrine Griffin. They didn't know at the time.
Speaker 2: Remember that was a higher in June of twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2: They did not know if they were going to bring
Speaker 2: back Chris Middleton. He was going to be a free agent,
Speaker 2: he had that option. They didn't know if brook Lopez
Speaker 2: was going to resign. They didn't know what Giannis was
Speaker 2: gonna do, you know, he they didn't know if he
Speaker 2: was going to sign an extension. And then he remember
Speaker 2: Gianni's making you know, he had some comments and certain
Speaker 2: articles out there about you know, I could win here,
Speaker 2: I could win elsewhere. It's like you just didn't know
Speaker 2: where he was leaning towards, pretending to his future. So
Speaker 2: they felt very comfortable at the time hiring asan Griffin,
Speaker 2: somebody who hadn't been a head coach yet in the NBA.
Speaker 2: And then when they had the opportunity to trade for
Speaker 2: Dame and they did, they that you know, that changed
Speaker 2: things now, so that That's the explanation that was told
Speaker 2: to me. Things changed and they got Dame, and throughout
Speaker 2: this four month's tenure that Griffin had as actually being
Speaker 2: as actually coaching, there was just there was disconnect. There
Speaker 2: was you know, I did go as far as to
Speaker 2: say that I believe he lost the locker room at
Speaker 2: one point. I think Griffin would be a really good coach.
Speaker 2: He didn't sign up for. What he signed up for
Speaker 2: is not what he had at the latter ends of
Speaker 2: his tenure here with the Bucks, and so bestides hear
Speaker 2: me out. So I told you how it was explained
Speaker 2: to me as far as the rationale and what happened
Speaker 2: along the way. But you can make the argument that
Speaker 2: even if you didn't know what was going to happen
Speaker 2: with all those players, you know, you still got Yiannis
Speaker 2: locked up for a few years, and if you still
Speaker 2: got Jans, you still got jew Holliday. You're still expected
Speaker 2: to compete for a championship, right, So I get that
Speaker 2: the team is probably a little bit more high profile now,
Speaker 2: the expections are a little bit higher, but you're still
Speaker 2: expected to compete for a championship. I'm just telling everybody,
Speaker 2: how was explained to me as far as the rationale
Speaker 2: of why they hired him, hired him and why they
Speaker 2: fired them, and you can read it to it how
Speaker 2: you feel. What's your tam, sir.
Speaker 1: The David Blat Calves can could make that argument because
Speaker 1: the David Black, you know, David Blatt got that job
Speaker 1: before Lebron James said he was coming back to Cleveland,
Speaker 1: before the Cleveland Cavaliers brought in Kevin Love to join
Speaker 1: Lebron James and Kyrie Irving. In the David Blat scenario,
Speaker 1: it really was a different team from what Blat was
Speaker 1: hired to coach and what the Calves became. The Bucks,
Speaker 1: to me, cannot make that argument. I'm sorry because you
Speaker 1: said it. It doesn't matter if they didn't know Middleton
Speaker 1: was resigning, if they didn't know brook Lopez was resigning,
Speaker 1: if janis Antetokumpo is on the roster, you know, oh,
Speaker 1: your season is judged as championship or bust, no matter what.
Speaker 1: And you know it's funny you talked about the kind
Speaker 1: of rumbles you've been hearing the last couple of weeks.
Speaker 1: The same thing happened to me and I wrote about
Speaker 1: this on my sub stack the other day one of
Speaker 1: my most trusted NBA informants. I always believe this person
Speaker 1: when they tell me something too. I look back in
Speaker 1: my notes two weeks exactly before the Bucks announced that
Speaker 1: Adrian Griffin was being dismissed, My informant said Terry Stotts
Speaker 1: would be coaching this team right now if he was
Speaker 1: still there. And I said, yep, I took it on board.
Speaker 1: But I just thought to my you know, nah, I
Speaker 1: mean the Bucks, they're not going to fire Adrian Griffin
Speaker 1: halfway through the season after they hired him, after you
Speaker 1: fire Mike Budenholzer in the wake of five re successful
Speaker 1: seasons and a championship, and they're only gonna give Adrian
Speaker 1: Griffin half a season. And I was proven right, But
Speaker 1: there ain't no victory lap because I was right by
Speaker 1: all of two games Game forty three. Two games passed
Speaker 1: the midpoint, and the Bucks went through and did it
Speaker 1: and validated all this noise. And you know, again, like
Speaker 1: as I kind of talked about at the top on
Speaker 1: this show, we've we've talked about Terry Stotts leaving the
Speaker 1: staff before opening night, we talked about Jannis being clearly upset,
Speaker 1: subbed out of a game against Boston, a national TV
Speaker 1: game and basically checked back in. I remember there was
Speaker 1: a reporter named Chris Haynes who reported about how Bucks
Speaker 1: players went to Adrian Griffin and urged him to receive
Speaker 1: store more of last season's defensive coverages because they didn't
Speaker 1: like the coverages that Adrian Griffin wanted to bring in.
Speaker 1: And I remember also that reporter, a certain Chris Haynes
Speaker 1: telling us after the end season tournament about how Bobby
Speaker 1: Portis registered some challenges to the first year coach after
Speaker 1: the Bucks lost in the IST semifinals. It's been one, two, three, four.
Speaker 1: It's just been one thing after another since this thing,
Speaker 1: since since the season has started, really, and it just
Speaker 1: it is clear that he struggled. Adrian Griffin struggled to
Speaker 1: get buy in from this group as a first year coach.
Speaker 1: And it's been happening really from the jump.
Speaker 2: And I would say, Stein, you know, I was able
Speaker 2: to speak with Coach Griff after he was let go.
Speaker 2: Let me just read his quote. They didn't want I'll
Speaker 2: tell you about something else that happened. I wrote about
Speaker 2: it in my story, but this quote is from Griff.
Speaker 2: He said, I appreciate the opportunity the Bucks gave me.
Speaker 2: You can't control everything. I feel good about the job
Speaker 2: we did. I appreciate I appreciate my coaching staff for
Speaker 2: all their hard work. I always wanted to be a
Speaker 2: head coach in this league. I couldn't have asked for
Speaker 2: a better roster. I got to coach Giannis Dame Chris Brooke.
Speaker 2: That's a dream come true. Hopefully I get another shot
Speaker 2: at it, but overall, I'm just thankful that was Adrian Griffin.
Speaker 1: We got to be one of the classiest things. It's
Speaker 1: got to be one of the classiest responses to such
Speaker 1: a tough situation that we've ever heard. It is really
Speaker 1: hard not to feel for Adrian Griffin, who has been
Speaker 1: an assistant coach for a long time and waiting for
Speaker 1: an opportunity like this for a long time, and for
Speaker 1: it to end so quickly and so unceremoniously, and for
Speaker 1: him to handle it the way he did.
Speaker 2: Man, Yeah, and that was that was pretty so after
Speaker 2: he was fired. That when he when he asked the
Speaker 2: phone and gave me that. Remember he told me he
Speaker 2: interviewed for NBA head coaching job on fourteen different occasions.
Speaker 2: Throughout a thirteen year period.
Speaker 1: That's crazy. And remember we have Remember we had Darvin
Speaker 1: ham On in the summer and it was ten, so
Speaker 1: that's four more than Darvin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's tough. Really, I really feel for him, but
Speaker 2: I think he's look, man, they were thirty and thirteen.
Speaker 2: Come on. Yeah. The way it was explained to me
Speaker 2: as well as like that, the Bucks wanted to see
Speaker 2: a little bit more convincing wins. You can give them that. Defensively,
Speaker 2: they've been struggling throughout the whole season. Their offense has
Speaker 2: really carried them. Transition d has been abysmal, but at
Speaker 2: the end of the day, they've been getting the job done.
Speaker 2: You know, the Indiana Patriers seemed that I've had their
Speaker 2: number this season. But what I want to say is
Speaker 2: after that n season tournament, I wrote about it that
Speaker 2: story for Bleacher Report, Griff called a meeting, a meeting
Speaker 2: with Jannis, Dame, Brooke, and Chris Middleton. And the way
Speaker 2: it was told to me, Griff was challenging all of them,
Speaker 2: no hols, bar challenging them, telling them, you know, one
Speaker 2: of the challenges I can say is like getting on
Speaker 2: Dame for making the right reads, Giet giving up the
Speaker 2: ball early, getting on Janni's for not finding guys, taking
Speaker 2: on three guys at a time and transitioning and guys
Speaker 2: being open on the perimeter like he was, Like Griffin
Speaker 2: was calling guys out, challenging them, and that that session
Speaker 2: like it was, it was allowed to Well what that
Speaker 2: session was, it was just an air and out session.
Speaker 2: Say what's wrong, Say what's wrong with me, Say what's
Speaker 2: wrong with your teammates. Let's get it all out clear,
Speaker 2: Let's get it out now. And I was told that
Speaker 2: that session lasts for about a few hours and it
Speaker 2: was pretty productive. And you know, again the way it
Speaker 2: was explained to me is Griff was really going at him,
Speaker 2: like going out his star players, his core guys, those
Speaker 2: four and after that nd season tournament loss when they
Speaker 2: had that air and out session right after, they went
Speaker 2: on to win seven in a row, and to extend
Speaker 2: that a little bit further, they went on to win
Speaker 2: nine of their last ten. So it was a very
Speaker 2: productive session. Everybody got you know, it seemed like everybody
Speaker 2: was buying in. But then it kind of went back
Speaker 2: downhill from there. And so I give Griff and a
Speaker 2: lot of credit. Man, he tried his best and you know,
Speaker 2: I believe he believes that he needed more time. You know,
Speaker 2: this is a new team. It takes time to to
Speaker 2: get everybody on the same page to jail. Giannis has
Speaker 2: never played with somebody like Dame. Dame's never played with
Speaker 2: somebody like Giannis. He felt like he did a good
Speaker 2: job considering all the factors that were in play.
Speaker 1: And I think what's clear based on you know, we
Speaker 1: can make this judge watching the way the Bucks have
Speaker 1: handled this season. They clearly don't feel like they have time.
Speaker 1: Even with Giannis after the Damian Lillard trade, even with
Speaker 1: Yannas signing a new three year extension, the Bucks are
Speaker 1: still operating in a manner that conveys that they don't
Speaker 1: feel like they have time. Because, you know, in our
Speaker 1: previous podcast, you know, a week ago, what did you
Speaker 1: report last Friday? You reported that the Bucks were trying
Speaker 1: to make their way into the trade chase for de
Speaker 1: Jonte Murray. And my takeaway from that is, look, the
Speaker 1: Bucks do not have many trade assets left after going
Speaker 1: out and getting Dame. But to me, the big takeaway
Speaker 1: from Milwaukee's interest in Dejonte Murray is just the desperation,
Speaker 1: just the pressure that They clearly feel that they have
Speaker 1: to make another move, even after bringing in Dame, because
Speaker 1: of the defensive deficiencies that we've seen all season. This
Speaker 1: team's been in the bottom third of the league defensively
Speaker 1: and not again, realistically, can they trade for de Jontey Murray.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be really hard for them to trade for
Speaker 1: de Jontay Murray. But just the fact that they want
Speaker 1: to give it a try shows you they realize that
Speaker 1: things are not going the way they mapped it out.
Speaker 1: And then when they make such an abrupt coaching change,
Speaker 1: it slams home the idea that they realize this is
Speaker 1: their big move. Realistically, they're not gonna be able to
Speaker 1: make a major trade. We know they're gonna try to
Speaker 1: do something. You've I know you've been characterizing the Bucks
Speaker 1: as they're gonna be aggressive and trying to find anything
Speaker 1: they can do, anything they can do before the deadline.
Speaker 1: But this is the move they knew they could make,
Speaker 1: as uncomfortable as it would be to make a coaching
Speaker 1: change now, and they did it.
Speaker 2: And that and that highlights an aspect of their how
Speaker 2: aggressive they are. Again, they are paying three head coaching salaries.
Speaker 2: That's pretty unprecedented right there. And these aren't three young,
Speaker 2: inexperienced head coaching salaries. You know, Adrian Griffin is pretty sure,
Speaker 2: you know, he wasn't making top flight NBA head coaching money.
Speaker 2: But Mike Budenholzer and Doc Rivers, that's a pretty penny
Speaker 2: right there. So it shows you, you know, it just
Speaker 2: exactly how urgent they are right now. And then again
Speaker 2: there's a window, be honest with dame, they have a window.
Speaker 2: This is a three four year window, that's about it.
Speaker 2: So you got to maximize that. And so again I
Speaker 2: wish I wish coach Adrian Griffin all the best. I
Speaker 2: hope he can get another job, I really do. That's
Speaker 2: that's just a it's a sad situation to have to
Speaker 2: wait that long and go through the coaching process that
Speaker 2: many times before getting your first head job, and then
Speaker 2: you get a prime gig and and then you're out
Speaker 2: midway through a four year deal. That's pretty unpressed in
Speaker 2: it's tin and yeahpe hopefully he could get another shot,
Speaker 2: all right.
Speaker 1: Well, before we move on to the Doc Rivers portion
Speaker 1: of this, because I do want to highlight one other
Speaker 1: thing I reported this week, because I.
Speaker 2: Look, yes you did Stan, Yes, you did. I know
Speaker 2: where you're going with.
Speaker 1: Look, Jani Sontetokumpo, this is going to be something that.
Speaker 2: You emptied the notebook clip. Stean, you emptied the note
Speaker 2: book clip.
Speaker 1: In the summer in May. I reported it. I know
Speaker 1: you reported it. I know we both heard it. The
Speaker 1: word started to emerge that Janis Antetokumpo, of the candidates
Speaker 1: that Milwaukee was looking at, that he was most intrigued
Speaker 1: with Adrian Griffin. And it was very curious because they
Speaker 1: have never, to my knowledge, worked together before. Adrian Griffin
Speaker 1: had been an assistant coach in a number of places
Speaker 1: on his way to getting the Milwaukee job, but he
Speaker 1: did not have a ton of previous working experience with
Speaker 1: Janis on Tetokumpo. So the fact that Jannis liked the
Speaker 1: idea of Milwaukee hiring Griffin, there were a lot of
Speaker 1: people around the league at the time in late May
Speaker 1: asking why, how where did this relationship come from? Well,
Speaker 1: in the months since and as things have kind of
Speaker 1: been rocky here in Milwaukee, the way it was described
Speaker 1: to me was that it was really more that Yannis
Speaker 1: did not want the Bucks to go in the direction
Speaker 1: of hiring Nick Nurse, who was very available after he
Speaker 1: left Toronto, and that rather than urged the Bucks to
Speaker 1: hire Nick Nurse, Jannis began championing Adrian Griffin. The word
Speaker 1: that was circulating at the time was he wanted a
Speaker 1: former player, and Adrian Griffin was the most notable former
Speaker 1: player who made the latter stages of the Bucks coaching search.
Speaker 1: I think Kenny Atkinson from the Warriors was also in there.
Speaker 1: But look, this is something, this is a storyline that
Speaker 1: I don't think will be going away because Philadelphia remains
Speaker 1: in contention for the Eastern Conference crown along with Milwaukee
Speaker 1: and Miami and of course Boston. But the Bucks really
Speaker 1: had the first lane toward hiring Nick Nurse and did not.
Speaker 1: And Nick Nurse has since gone on to Philadelphia, and
Speaker 1: you've seen the impact he's had on the Sixers as
Speaker 1: a whole, but really on Joel Embiid, who's probably playing
Speaker 1: the best basketball of his life. And this week, at
Speaker 1: the time of the firing, the Sixers were in the
Speaker 1: top five in both offense and defense, and the Bucks,
Speaker 1: while number two in offense, have again they've been twenty
Speaker 1: one twenty two range in defensive ratings. So look, hiring
Speaker 1: Doc Rivers. Now, however they got there, does create the
Speaker 1: possibility that the Bucks can fix this. Maybe now they
Speaker 1: have the coach they feel is the right coach who
Speaker 1: can steer this team into championship contention. And look, Doc
Speaker 1: Rivers has no shortage of critics around the league because
Speaker 1: of his player of shortcomings over the past decade plus.
Speaker 1: But look, I think Doc Rivers is going to very
Speaker 1: quickly get player buy in in Milwaukee, the player buy
Speaker 1: in that Adrian Griffin did not get. But I mean,
Speaker 1: this story just has so many layers. And like I said,
Speaker 1: we've been going now for a good fifteen minutes maybe more,
Speaker 1: and we've barely even talked about Doc.
Speaker 2: And that's where that's where this gets all interesting, because again,
Speaker 2: Philly has played some really good basketball. Boston plans some
Speaker 2: really good basketball. And these are his old these are
Speaker 2: two of his old stomping grounds, and now he's going
Speaker 2: to be asked to lead the charge to take down,
Speaker 2: potentially take down two of his two of his spots
Speaker 2: in spots in previous time. I think I think you
Speaker 2: know a bunch of players too. I'm gonna say it's
Speaker 2: stein a bunch of players. I would say star players,
Speaker 2: when I mean a bunch, I'll say it handful. So
Speaker 2: about five players star players. They called me and they
Speaker 2: asked me about Doc Rivers and they were like, man like, Doc,
Speaker 2: get these jobs. And my response to him or to
Speaker 2: them was who else would you hire? Because you have
Speaker 2: to understand what this Bucks team they are. It is desperation,
Speaker 2: it is urgent of the highest degree. You have to hire.
Speaker 2: They just let go of Ad and Griffin, and I
Speaker 2: think a large reason why was due to inexperience, regardless
Speaker 2: of why they hired them in the first place, whatever,
Speaker 2: But you have to bring in somebody with some cache,
Speaker 2: with some experience, who's with some experience, who has spent
Speaker 2: time coaching superstars, handling egos, handling personalities, handling depth because
Speaker 2: when you when you're handling depth like that's why you
Speaker 2: got to give ty Lou credit. Not only is he
Speaker 2: one of the best exit and os coaches, but he
Speaker 2: understands how to handle depth because then you're you're dealing
Speaker 2: with personalities, You're dealing with egos because you're limiting their
Speaker 2: minute distribution, and you have to you have to work
Speaker 2: through all of that. So who else is out there? Like?
Speaker 2: And that's why you know, and nobody could come up
Speaker 2: with a name. And this is what I was told.
Speaker 2: The Bucks were looking at, Doc Rivers, Jeff Van Gundy,
Speaker 2: Nate McMillan. It was a very short list, very short list.
Speaker 2: And if you're talking about those names, I know people
Speaker 2: hate hearing about recycled coaches, But who else is out
Speaker 2: there that's available with that experience that can come in
Speaker 2: to the locker room from day one and command the
Speaker 2: respect of these players? You know, you can talk about it,
Speaker 2: but you could talk about not liking the move or
Speaker 2: Doc's getting all these opportunities, But okay, who else is
Speaker 2: out there? Nobody can give me a name? How do
Speaker 2: you feel about that stund how you feel about like?
Speaker 2: Who else is out look?
Speaker 1: I mentioned it once and we will say it again.
Speaker 1: Over the past decade plus the championship with Boston in
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, that was a long time ago,
Speaker 1: there have been numerous playoff disappointments for Doc's various teams
Speaker 1: in those intervening fifteen ish years, a lot of teams
Speaker 1: that didn't get passed round two, a lot of Game
Speaker 1: seven defeats, and Doc's gonna have to hear about that
Speaker 1: and answer that talk. Until he takes a team into
Speaker 1: the conference finals and beyond again. But to me, he
Speaker 1: was the obvious choice. If you're going to do something
Speaker 1: like this, I'm with you. I think he was really
Speaker 1: the only choice at this point, because, look, he can't
Speaker 1: change that personnel. The Bucks are still going to have
Speaker 1: defensive issues with the roster they have. But can he
Speaker 1: run more pick and roll with Giannis and Dame, something
Speaker 1: we have not seen as much of as some pundits anticipated.
Speaker 1: Can he, first of all, just get that group on
Speaker 1: the same page. I think he can, and I think
Speaker 1: he will. One more thing about the Bucks, at least
Speaker 1: for now. We will underline for now, because I don't
Speaker 1: think we're going to be done talking Bucks for a
Speaker 1: while here as Doc Rivers gets settled in there. Certainly
Speaker 1: the microscope will stay trained on the Bucks and how
Speaker 1: they react to this coaching change. But Milwaukee as a
Speaker 1: franchise has faced some additional criticism this week because it's
Speaker 1: been reported that in the month or so before Adrian
Speaker 1: Griffin's dismissal, the Bucks reached out to Doc Rivers to
Speaker 1: ask him to serve as a coaching consultant to Adrian Griffin,
Speaker 1: and that has certainly raised eyebrows. It has led to
Speaker 1: suggestions that Doc was angling for this job before it
Speaker 1: was open, and my issue with that is, I mean,
Speaker 1: I I've heard repeatedly since the season started how much
Speaker 1: Doc was enjoying the TV life, the media life. I
Speaker 1: really don't think he was desperate to get back into
Speaker 1: coaching this season. I felt like the consistent rumbles out
Speaker 1: there were that, you know, Doc, of course he was
Speaker 1: gonna come back and take a job eventually, but that
Speaker 1: a year off to do TV, to play golf and
Speaker 1: get some respite from the daily madness was not an
Speaker 1: idea of it. He didn't love the sound of I
Speaker 1: think he did love the sound of that, and now
Speaker 1: he is back in the hot seat again. What's been
Speaker 1: your take on all that chatter.
Speaker 2: I think if Doc has asked about that consultant role,
Speaker 2: I think if he's asked about it publicly, I think
Speaker 2: he'll refute that about behind the scenes, I'm hearing that
Speaker 2: that role was offered, but it sounds like he didn't
Speaker 2: accept that role of consultant. Griff. Uh, That's that's what
Speaker 2: I'll That's how it was.
Speaker 1: We got to dig more into that one. Because I'm
Speaker 1: with you I've heard the same thing. I heard that
Speaker 1: he was offered the consultant role and didn't really want it.
Speaker 1: So to what extent he was consulting Adrian Griffin, We're
Speaker 1: gonna have to We're gonna have to dig into that
Speaker 1: one a little bit more. And you know you said
Speaker 1: it too. You know, it'll be very interesting too hear
Speaker 1: from Doc Rivers when he is formally ushered in as
Speaker 1: the bucks new coach. You know, we've John Horst held
Speaker 1: a press conference on Wednesday after the Adrian Griffin dismissal
Speaker 1: and Joe Prunty coaching the Bucks as the interim coach.
Speaker 1: But we still have to hear from Doc Rivers, and
Speaker 1: again we will rest assured. We are not done talking
Speaker 1: about the Bucks of Milwaukee. They will remain very much
Speaker 1: in the news, and as you've been saying, they will.
Speaker 1: You know, they're a team that still wants to try
Speaker 1: to do something at this deadline. So let's see if
Speaker 1: they can still make a move of some sort to
Speaker 1: try to spruce up the roster as well. All Right,
Speaker 1: We're gonna move on now to some All Star discussion
Speaker 1: because the All Star starters were announced on this Thursday night.
Speaker 1: As Chris and I record, and look, we can go
Speaker 1: in a zillion different directions. We've now officially passed the
Speaker 1: midpoint of the twenty twenty three to twenty four regular season.
Speaker 1: We will most certainly be getting back to trade season,
Speaker 1: just under three weeks away from the trade buzzer promise
Speaker 1: that upcoming episodes will have lots of trade talk and
Speaker 1: almost anniversary time for US. January thirtieth, twenty twenty three
Speaker 1: was the date of the first edition of this league, uncut,
Speaker 1: and so we are getting very close to our one
Speaker 1: year anniversary, which is a stunning development in itself that
Speaker 1: we made it this far. But let's talk all stars.
Speaker 1: All joking aside, let's talk all stars. The starters were
Speaker 1: announced tonight. I mean, I wasn't terribly surprised by the results,
Speaker 1: but I guess it to on how you want to
Speaker 1: look at things in the Eastern Conference, zero surprise in
Speaker 1: the East front court, janas Antetokumpo, Joe l Embiid Jason
Speaker 1: Tatum are your three East starters. The backcourt Tyrese Halliburton
Speaker 1: for the hometown Indiana Pacers hosts of the event. And
Speaker 1: then I guess this is where the surprise element such
Speaker 1: as it was, came in Damian Lillard, yanas Antokumpo's teammate
Speaker 1: from the Milwaukee Bucks, he gets the other starting spot
Speaker 1: in the East, ahead of New York's Jalen Brunson. I'm
Speaker 1: sure Brunson is disappointed, but I think without question Brunson
Speaker 1: will be selected by East coaches next week for his
Speaker 1: first All Star appearance. And amazingly, for Damian Lillard, I
Speaker 1: believe this will be the first time he ever starts
Speaker 1: in the All Star YEP, which that did catch me
Speaker 1: a bit off guard. In the West, your starters in
Speaker 1: the front court Nikola Jokic, Kevin Durant and a certain
Speaker 1: thirty nine year old named Lebron James. And then in
Speaker 1: the backcourt. Again, I'm not shocked by this because remember
Speaker 1: voting is now fifty percent fans, but also twenty five
Speaker 1: percent media and twenty five percent players. For the All Stars.
Speaker 1: Shay Gilgis Alexander joins Luka Doncic as a starter in
Speaker 1: the West backcourt, which means Stephan Curry is not a starter,
Speaker 1: and that's mostly down to the fact that Steph slipped
Speaker 1: to number four in the media vote. But again I'm
Speaker 1: not hugely surprised there because Golden State struggles at nineteen
Speaker 1: and twenty two. Entering Thursday night's play again, not a
Speaker 1: massive surprise to me at least that he would slip
Speaker 1: some among media voters and open the door for SGA
Speaker 1: to barge into the starting lineup. But you've heard me
Speaker 1: prattle on enough. Chris Haynes, what was your reaction to
Speaker 1: the East and West starters?
Speaker 2: I was, I was surprised. We talked about this, what
Speaker 2: was it last month, and I was I was saying, hey, Stein,
Speaker 2: is there a scenario where Steph might not be the starter?
Speaker 2: Because I was, you know, I was making a case
Speaker 2: for SGA. I was making a case for Anthony Edwards,
Speaker 2: being that Minnesota Timbolves are number one, and just with
Speaker 2: the popularity is Steph. I still didn't see it. Even
Speaker 2: to the current time, I didn't see it. I still
Speaker 2: felt like, yes, when you're talking about the players in
Speaker 2: the media, they're largely going to vote for who's playing
Speaker 2: well that that season. You can bank on them. Media
Speaker 2: more so probably could bank on them to kind of
Speaker 2: get it right. Fan voting is fan voting. But I
Speaker 2: still thought what the popular is Steph is popular among
Speaker 2: his peers. I still thought Steph could get in via
Speaker 2: the fan excuse me, via the player vote. I didn't
Speaker 2: think media would. So as I look through this, excuse me,
Speaker 2: I'm in the East right now. So as I look
Speaker 2: through this, oh, you already said yes, Steph got and
Speaker 2: player ranking. Player vote he was third, and media he
Speaker 2: was fourth.
Speaker 1: So that's that's really heard a starting spot slipped to
Speaker 1: number four among the media. Look, I think if there's really,
Speaker 1: if there's a curveball here, it's that Jalen Brunson. He
Speaker 1: was number two among East guards in the media vote.
Speaker 1: The media backed Jalen Brunson as an All Star starter
Speaker 1: more than the fan vote. And that is because you
Speaker 1: think the Knicks have such a huge fan base that
Speaker 1: that's going to theoretically give Brunson an advantage. But I
Speaker 1: think it speaks to the fact that Damian Lillard, no
Speaker 1: matter what jersey he's wearing, Portland, Milwaukee, whatever, Damian Lillard
Speaker 1: is still a very very popular player. And the fan
Speaker 1: vote clearly proved that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the players selected Tyrese Halliburton and Tyrese Maxi one
Speaker 2: two players, media selected Halliburton and Brunson. One thing that's
Speaker 2: fascinating about this is like, where are we with the
Speaker 2: so called big market teams having an advantage? Right, Jalen
Speaker 2: Brunson is one of the biggest stars that Knicks have
Speaker 2: had in a long time. Why in that market in
Speaker 2: New York where they're winning. Jalen Brunson is a very
Speaker 2: likable player, a young star on the rise. Why was
Speaker 2: he only let me see fan voting he was? Why
Speaker 2: is why was he fifth in fan voting in the
Speaker 2: New York market? Why is that? Does market size mean anything?
Speaker 1: I think it's become a global game, and you you know,
Speaker 1: and that's it's it's not just if And I hope
Speaker 1: I have my facts straight here, because look, I gotta
Speaker 1: be honest. I typically do not get super worked up
Speaker 1: about the starters because the fan vote element is such
Speaker 1: a huge part of it and to me, the fans
Speaker 1: should get to see who they want to see. And
Speaker 1: so I what, you know, I'm always you know, supporting
Speaker 1: various changes in tweaks to the NBA system and they
Speaker 1: should change this, and they should change that, and they
Speaker 1: said they should fix this, but you know, all stars starters.
Speaker 1: To me, the fact that it is now fifty percent
Speaker 1: fan vote instead of one hundred percent fan vote, Like,
Speaker 1: that's not one that I was really clamoring for, just
Speaker 1: speaking purely for myself, because to me, you know, the
Speaker 1: fans want to see who they want to see, and
Speaker 1: I don't typically tend to quibble with that. But because
Speaker 1: it is fifty twenty five twenty five now instead of
Speaker 1: just one hundred percent fan vote, we're able to dissect
Speaker 1: these results even more and really put them under the
Speaker 1: microscope and try to figure out what it all means. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm you know again, neither one of these
Speaker 1: floored me. But you would have thought if Brunson only
Speaker 1: needed a higher fan vote placing to get that starting spot,
Speaker 1: that he probably would have.
Speaker 2: Okay, I have a question. This could be a controversial question,
Speaker 2: all right. My question to you Stein since they went
Speaker 2: to this format of picking starters by way of fans,
Speaker 2: media and players. The fans are the fans, like you said,
Speaker 2: it's about them. They want to see who they want
Speaker 2: to see. Then it's the media's job to try to
Speaker 2: uphold uphold the standards of which players are playing the
Speaker 2: best that particular season. So it's our jobs as the
Speaker 2: media to take away you know, we're not looking at popularity.
Speaker 2: We're not looking at who is the who whose game
Speaker 2: we like the best. It's about who's happened the best
Speaker 2: season that particular year. And then you have the players
Speaker 2: and put now Stein Ben Simmons has two votes by
Speaker 2: the players, Josh Hart has four votes. I can go
Speaker 2: on and on. I would encourage everybody to go look
Speaker 2: at the results, look at.
Speaker 1: Star votes through and compiles the list of amazing, it's
Speaker 1: crazy votes from fellow players in the All Star process.
Speaker 1: And yeah, that that bothers me, that you know.
Speaker 2: And Stein. The reason why I bring this up because
Speaker 2: it's funny every year. It really is funny every year.
Speaker 2: But the problem is is that by not really voting
Speaker 2: the right way, voting to who should really be an
Speaker 2: All Star, whoever you think really should be an All
Speaker 2: Star starter, you're taking votes away from guys who are
Speaker 2: probably that vote will make the difference, that vote will
Speaker 2: have them actually being a starter opposed to now having
Speaker 2: to rely on being called as an All Star reserve
Speaker 2: next week. And there's a lot like look at this list.
Speaker 2: These votes are spread throughout the league of guys who
Speaker 2: haven't played, guys that's not in the rotation. God, you know,
Speaker 2: what I'm saying. So it's like, I know players talk
Speaker 2: about having input in and listen, you can say it's
Speaker 2: a small sample size because they still have you know,
Speaker 2: they still had the right guys that overall they had
Speaker 2: the right guys in as starters. But there's a lot
Speaker 2: of votes just spread out and that you're just throwing
Speaker 2: them away in which those votes could be difference makers.
Speaker 2: And so I'm like, man, if y'all not gonna take
Speaker 2: it seriously, ah, I don't know. I don't know, am
Speaker 2: I making too big of a deal of.
Speaker 1: It, because there's always the talk that you know, in
Speaker 1: the media, we're dumb, we don't know what the hell
Speaker 1: we're talking about. But I think, look, I don't have
Speaker 1: the list in front of me, but if if I
Speaker 1: heard Ernie Johnson correctly, and if I'm remembering what Ernie
Speaker 1: Johnson and said during TNT's broadcast earlier tonight, I think
Speaker 1: the media had Anthony Edwards and Jalen Brunson on its
Speaker 1: respective All Star ballots as starters. And to me, that
Speaker 1: looks like pretty smart analysis by the media as a
Speaker 1: whole to recognize guys who played at a really, really,
Speaker 1: really elite level. Obviously, the media is choosing starters, or
Speaker 1: is theoretically at least choosing starters based on who they
Speaker 1: think is playing the best and most impactful basketball in
Speaker 1: the league. So yeah, you know, the media is constantly
Speaker 1: branded as not the best judge of talent in these circumstances.
Speaker 1: And I think when you see the voting results and
Speaker 1: we get these various player names, various guys getting All
Speaker 1: Star votes that clearly should not, it lets you know
Speaker 1: why the league keeps asking the media to vote on
Speaker 1: so many things, because nobody's going to do it perfect.
Speaker 1: Whoever is voting, people are going to take issue with it.
Speaker 1: If it was one hundred percent at fan vote, people
Speaker 1: would sit here and complain about player A, B or
Speaker 1: C being left off. When the coaches pick the reserves,
Speaker 1: we're going to have a huge discussion about snubs. It's
Speaker 1: the way it always is, no matter who's doing the voting.
Speaker 1: But I think history shows that the media as a
Speaker 1: collective is quite responsible and tries to bring the most
Speaker 1: objective lens to this as you can, and of course
Speaker 1: I'm saying it as biased as you possibly can as
Speaker 1: a member of the media, but again, look at the results.
Speaker 1: I think Anthony Edwards and Jalen Brunson do have very
Speaker 1: strong cases to be All Star starters.
Speaker 2: And again aside from not aside from these votes potentially
Speaker 2: swing if you're a starter or not, you know it
Speaker 2: has financial implications a well, you know, players have bonuses
Speaker 2: for being an All Star starter, so you plan with
Speaker 2: your money. So essentially, players, you're playing with your own money.
Speaker 1: Like I said, I generally save most of my entergy
Speaker 1: in terms of getting worked up about All Star matters.
Speaker 1: I save most of my energy for the reserves because
Speaker 1: that's where the coaches are doing it, and emotion is
Speaker 1: supposed to be taken out of it completely, and they're
Speaker 1: really supposed to be grading guys on performance, and then
Speaker 1: the whole team's success comes into the equation and we're
Speaker 1: going to have a great argument about who got snubbed.
Speaker 1: But year after year with the players voting, we see
Speaker 1: some wild votes cast let's.
Speaker 2: Say, just throwing them away, That's what's happening.
Speaker 1: Just throwing it away, all right, That is going to
Speaker 1: do it for this edition of this league, uncut. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm glad that that. I'm glad that that anniversary date
Speaker 1: popped into my head before we signed off because next
Speaker 1: week we will have two more episodes of This League Uncut.
Speaker 1: I have not yet been apprized of Chris Haynes's travel
Speaker 1: schedule for next week, whether he's working one or two
Speaker 1: games on the TNT sidelines, but we're gonna work around
Speaker 1: whatever travel is thrown his way to bring you two episodes.
Speaker 2: Let me let me announce it.
Speaker 1: Yes, please share this.
Speaker 2: Let me announce it. So I have I have Philly
Speaker 2: at Golden State on Tuesday. Golden State, Philly, Golden State
Speaker 2: on Tuesday. That's for TNT Dan Sty Right after that,
Speaker 2: it's not a TNT game. I'm hopping on a plane
Speaker 2: early in the morning. I'm head to Portland the Bucks
Speaker 2: Portland Dames return.
Speaker 1: How did I forget that? January thirty first. January thirtieth
Speaker 1: is the one year anniversary of this League Uncut. January
Speaker 1: thirty first, Damian Lillard plays as a visitor at the
Speaker 1: Moda Center the first time, and I knew you would
Speaker 1: be there, so you know what. We will have at
Speaker 1: least one pod before those two TV assignments, But something
Speaker 1: tells me we will have to wait for the second
Speaker 1: pod next week, the first official pod of year two
Speaker 1: of this league uncut. We will wait till after you
Speaker 1: cover that Bucks at Blazers game, because I know your
Speaker 1: notebook will be bursting after that trip to the Pacific Northwest.
Speaker 2: Looking very forward. Flying Pie Pizza, if you guys are
Speaker 2: ever in Portland, the best pizza in the country, Flying
Speaker 2: Pie for real.
Speaker 1: I've never heard you bring that up before.
Speaker 2: I want are you being outcast?
Speaker 1: I'm being one hundred percent. I've never heard you bring
Speaker 1: that up before. I want pictures and a full We're
Speaker 1: gonna do ten we might have to do ten minutes
Speaker 1: on We might have to do ten minutes on pizza
Speaker 1: next week. If you're that you feel that strongly about it.
Speaker 2: Hey, urinals and pizza.
Speaker 1: So done with urinals. I don't even want to hear
Speaker 1: the word until Steve Balmer is on this show. Pizza.
Speaker 1: We can talk about that all day. We can do
Speaker 1: a separate pizza pod. If you want to do a
Speaker 1: best Pizza on the NBA Map Show, we can tackle that.
Speaker 1: Because you're not mine, because my my pick is my
Speaker 1: pick will surprise you, but I do not. I am
Speaker 1: not aware. I am not aware of this pizza in
Speaker 1: Portland that you're touting. So now I'm.
Speaker 2: Flying pod I'm curious Stein. When we do this, I'm talking,
Speaker 2: when we do talk about pizza, a certain region in
Speaker 2: this great country of ours will be very pissed off
Speaker 2: at me. And I mean, i'm gonna say it, the
Speaker 2: Midwest don't mess with those pizza ste I don't mess
Speaker 2: with it.
Speaker 1: The whole Midwest. Get the whole Midwest.
Speaker 2: I'm really talking about Chicago staff.
Speaker 1: I'm not either. I'm with you.
Speaker 2: I'm not. I'm not. It's bunch of cheese, just just cheese.
Speaker 1: It's cheesy. I am a thin crust devote so I'm
Speaker 1: with you on that. All right. That will do it
Speaker 1: for this edition of This League Uncut. As always, we
Speaker 1: remind you to please follow the show, rate the show,
Speaker 1: review the show, Apple, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: A five star review would be greatly appreciated. If you
Speaker 1: have comments on anything we've discussed here today, including and
Speaker 1: maybe especially pizza, we welcome those as well. We'll be
Speaker 1: back with you next week with two more editions. Cannot
Speaker 1: believe this humble little enterprise is turning two years old.
Speaker 1: Thank you producer Ryan, Thank you mister Haynes for carrying me.
Speaker 1: We'll all be back with you. Very soon, and that'll
Speaker 1: do it for us.
Speaker 2: See you next time.
Speaker 1: This league Uncut is and Heart Radio Production.
Speaker 2: P suck a lock up
Speaker 1: Chris Hanes and Mark Stein