WEBVTT - BULLETIN: MSNBC RACIST PURGE ESCALATES, 5 FIRED - 2.24.25 0:00:04.795 --> 0:00:15.715 Countdown with Keith Olderman is a production of iHeartRadio. This 0:00:15.955 --> 0:00:19.395 is a Countdown Boulton podcast. I'm Keith Oldreman. The racist 0:00:19.515 --> 0:00:24.075 purge has escalated at MSNBC. We told you this morning 0:00:24.155 --> 0:00:27.955 about Joy Reid getting fired and no pretense being made 0:00:28.075 --> 0:00:31.035 about why it was done, and Alex Wagner not going 0:00:31.115 --> 0:00:33.515 to return to her own show, though supposedly staying on 0:00:33.595 --> 0:00:37.275 as a correspondent. The number is now five. Katie Fang 0:00:37.555 --> 0:00:41.195 is out. Her show has been canceled outright. Jonathan k 0:00:41.315 --> 0:00:45.075 Part's show and Iman's show have also been canceled. They 0:00:45.115 --> 0:00:47.595 may or may not stay on at the network. So 0:00:47.675 --> 0:00:51.715 that is five Reid, Wagner, Iman, Katie Fang, and Jonathan 0:00:51.795 --> 0:00:55.155 k Parts. What do they all have in common? This 0:00:55.395 --> 0:00:58.915 on top of the previous firings of Meddi Hassan and 0:00:58.955 --> 0:01:03.675 Tiffany Cross and others long before that. They did not 0:01:03.915 --> 0:01:06.475 even attempt to cover this up with a fig leaf 0:01:06.555 --> 0:01:12.275 by firing an unnecessary non person of color, somebody like 0:01:12.395 --> 0:01:15.155 Stephanie Rule, who show is actually still on the air 0:01:15.195 --> 0:01:18.755 at eleven o'clock, even though MSNBC would make more money 0:01:18.755 --> 0:01:22.435 by simply replaying a Mattow rerun or a Hayes rerun 0:01:22.555 --> 0:01:26.035 or an O'Donnell rerun, or a joy Read rerun. Well, 0:01:26.115 --> 0:01:30.115 that's right, she's gone now, isn't she. After tonight, they 0:01:30.115 --> 0:01:33.515 didn't even fire somebody as a fig leaf. That is 0:01:33.595 --> 0:01:38.595 how truly naked. To continue the analogy, this racist purge is. 0:01:38.955 --> 0:01:40.955 And there has not been a word from any of 0:01:40.995 --> 0:01:45.115 the three main liberal anchors, my former guest hosts who 0:01:45.155 --> 0:01:50.715 constitute the MSNBC primetime lineup. Because I'd like to think 0:01:50.755 --> 0:01:54.115 they're thinking about it, I'm afraid I think they're thinking 0:01:54.155 --> 0:01:57.955 about the money. There is a problem that happens to 0:01:57.995 --> 0:02:01.915 someone who becomes a success suddenly and unexpectedly in their 0:02:01.955 --> 0:02:06.075 life after failure. I've discussed it many times previously. You 0:02:06.115 --> 0:02:09.035 suddenly wonder if it could all go away tomorrow, and 0:02:09.155 --> 0:02:11.675 if you've had enough success and if you have had 0:02:11.835 --> 0:02:16.995 enough money. Even if you have it doesn't register. But 0:02:17.115 --> 0:02:19.715 back to the main point here, why on earth would 0:02:19.715 --> 0:02:21.835 they do this? Why on earth would they do this 0:02:21.915 --> 0:02:25.155 on the same day that NBC announces that less your 0:02:25.195 --> 0:02:28.395 Holt is stepping down as the anchor of NBC Nightly News, 0:02:28.635 --> 0:02:30.835 Although that had been rumored for a long time and 0:02:31.035 --> 0:02:34.035 was apparently his choice, or at least partially his choice 0:02:34.035 --> 0:02:37.315 to stay with the network and stick to dateline. The 0:02:37.515 --> 0:02:40.915 nightly news format is dying finally, as we have seen 0:02:40.915 --> 0:02:43.795 at CBS. That's perhaps separate of this, but to do 0:02:43.835 --> 0:02:47.155 it all in a span of one day reeks of 0:02:47.315 --> 0:02:50.035 we don't care if you think we are racist. And 0:02:50.075 --> 0:02:52.675 the only people who would do something like that would 0:02:52.715 --> 0:02:55.595 be people who were following the CNN game plan from 0:02:55.715 --> 0:03:00.595 three years ago. The people who took over CNN, Warner Bros. Discovery, 0:03:00.795 --> 0:03:03.635 led by David Zaslav and Chris Lick, who used to 0:03:03.635 --> 0:03:07.195 be in the broadcasting business, decided rather openly to try 0:03:07.195 --> 0:03:09.635 to make the thing right wing to please they're leading 0:03:09.675 --> 0:03:12.355 new right wing investors. And if it didn't work, since 0:03:12.395 --> 0:03:15.835 people simply stopped watching CNN, well so much the better. 0:03:16.115 --> 0:03:19.395 You've neutralized CNN as a liberal outlet, or a partially 0:03:19.475 --> 0:03:22.555 liberal outlet, or an occasionally liberal outlet, or even just 0:03:22.595 --> 0:03:26.915 a neutral outlet, the way Twitter was neutralized by Elon Musk. 0:03:27.355 --> 0:03:30.595 And now it comes to MSNBC. You don't go and 0:03:30.635 --> 0:03:33.195 fire meadow. You can't. That would be the tent pole 0:03:33.275 --> 0:03:37.555 collapsing and any value of the network completely vanishing. You 0:03:37.635 --> 0:03:40.795 can't probably fire Hayes and O'Donnell, And what would the 0:03:40.835 --> 0:03:44.075 difference be if you did but fire all the minorities 0:03:44.115 --> 0:03:46.755 around the place, and you are signaling to the viewers 0:03:46.955 --> 0:03:50.075 that you do not care about diversity of opinion in 0:03:50.115 --> 0:03:53.035 a time in which the word diversity is suddenly like 0:03:53.155 --> 0:03:57.275 the word communist was in the nineteen fifties. I've told 0:03:57.315 --> 0:04:00.435 many times the story about what these networks really mean 0:04:00.515 --> 0:04:04.155 to their corporate officers and owners. In two thousand and nine, 0:04:04.195 --> 0:04:06.995 when Jeff Immelt, the chairman of GE, which I believe 0:04:07.155 --> 0:04:11.035 was the sixth largest corporation in the world at that point, 0:04:11.755 --> 0:04:15.835 was bothered by a reporter from Fox News who trailed 0:04:15.915 --> 0:04:18.795 him and bothered him because I was critical of Fox 0:04:18.835 --> 0:04:21.795 News and Bill O'Reilly on MSNBC. The reporter, by the way, 0:04:21.875 --> 0:04:24.395 was named Jesse Waters. If that name rings a bell 0:04:25.075 --> 0:04:27.795 when he was followed Immelt, that is, and he was 0:04:27.875 --> 0:04:32.355 criticized on O'Reilly's show and accused of manufacturing parts GE 0:04:32.555 --> 0:04:36.355 was manufacturing parts to make into IED's to kill Americans 0:04:36.395 --> 0:04:40.035 in Iraq. When that happened, Jeff Immelt's mother, a Bill 0:04:40.075 --> 0:04:43.915 O'Reilly fan, a Bill O'Reilly fan, called him up and 0:04:44.035 --> 0:04:48.155 yelled at him, And after being harassed by Jesse Waters 0:04:48.195 --> 0:04:51.355 and by his own mother, Jeff Immelt called Jeff Zooker, 0:04:51.355 --> 0:04:55.195 the president of NBC, and said, take MSNBC off the air. 0:04:55.275 --> 0:04:58.435 If I am bothered again by this, I am discontinuing 0:04:58.435 --> 0:05:02.475 the network. Immediately, pay everybody off, and everybody is fired, 0:05:02.515 --> 0:05:05.955 all at once. We were at that point perhaps profiting 0:05:06.355 --> 0:05:09.355 two or three hundred million dollars a year, which seems 0:05:09.395 --> 0:05:10.915 to you and me to be a lot of money. 0:05:11.035 --> 0:05:13.195 But if yours is the fourth or fifth or sixth 0:05:13.235 --> 0:05:16.555 largest corporation in the world, it's pocket change. You can 0:05:16.595 --> 0:05:20.995 do without it. And even now, Comcast could spin off MSNBC, 0:05:21.475 --> 0:05:24.355 which has been profitable through all of its travails the 0:05:24.435 --> 0:05:27.035 last few years, and would be as profitable again as 0:05:27.035 --> 0:05:29.795 it was during the first Trump administration with a little 0:05:29.875 --> 0:05:32.635 care and feeding. They have spun it off with the 0:05:32.715 --> 0:05:36.795 design to sell it and the other less than productive 0:05:36.875 --> 0:05:40.795 cable networks to sell it, or as we are seeing here, 0:05:41.315 --> 0:05:44.235 to kill it. But the doing of it this way 0:05:44.835 --> 0:05:47.435 when you don't even as I said before, you don't 0:05:47.435 --> 0:05:51.275 even offer the fig leaf of firing somebody who isn't 0:05:51.515 --> 0:05:55.675 Mehdi Hassan or Katie Fang or Jonathan cape Hart or 0:05:55.755 --> 0:05:59.315 Joy Reed or Alex Wagner or Eiman or any of them, 0:05:59.715 --> 0:06:02.715 when you don't even bother to cover up what you 0:06:02.755 --> 0:06:07.995 are doing. What you are doing is racism bluntly. If 0:06:08.035 --> 0:06:10.675 I were Mado, if I were still working at MSNBC, 0:06:10.915 --> 0:06:13.075 I would either go on the air and announce I 0:06:13.115 --> 0:06:16.395 am leaving and will not return until these people are 0:06:16.435 --> 0:06:19.915 restored or this is corrected in some other way, and 0:06:20.035 --> 0:06:22.755 get up from the chair and let the network go 0:06:22.915 --> 0:06:27.515 to blank, darkness or tone and bars. I would do that. 0:06:28.835 --> 0:06:31.755 I almost did that on several occasions in two thousand 0:06:31.795 --> 0:06:33.795 and eight, in two thousand and nine, but the crisis 0:06:33.835 --> 0:06:38.035 was averted. I hope somewhere behind the scenes, Mattow is 0:06:38.075 --> 0:06:42.195 doing something like that, or Hayes or O'Donnell or all 0:06:42.315 --> 0:06:45.875 three of them. God knows. Matto and I put that 0:06:46.675 --> 0:06:51.035 possibility to MSNBC and NBC executives several times in two 0:06:51.075 --> 0:06:55.795 thousand and eight, nine and ten, and we prevailed. But 0:06:55.915 --> 0:06:57.795 you have to go and do it. And if you 0:06:57.835 --> 0:07:02.635 don't do it, Rachel, Lawrence, Chris, you are complicit in this. 0:07:03.035 --> 0:07:07.235 And this is racism, and this is this is what 0:07:07.315 --> 0:07:10.835 Joe Scarborough would do. I talked for half an hour 0:07:10.875 --> 0:07:13.995 in today's episode of the podcast about the Joy Reid 0:07:14.075 --> 0:07:18.035 firing and the Alex Wagner demotion or firing before we 0:07:18.115 --> 0:07:20.715 knew about the rest of the purge on Monday afternoon. 0:07:21.475 --> 0:07:23.555 I'd like to if you haven't heard that, play it 0:07:23.595 --> 0:07:25.635 for you again. If you've heard it, feel free to 0:07:25.675 --> 0:07:29.315 hit stop right now. This has been a countdown bulletin 0:07:29.395 --> 0:07:36.155 podcast on the racist purge at MSNBC. I heard the 0:07:36.195 --> 0:07:41.355 new Saturday Night Joy Reid out at MSNBC, and it turned 0:07:41.395 --> 0:07:44.115 out to be much bigger than that. Joy Reid per 0:07:44.155 --> 0:07:46.835 The New York Times to be replaced from her seven 0:07:46.875 --> 0:07:51.315 PM show by moving a weekend show on MSNBC featuring 0:07:51.395 --> 0:07:55.475 Michael Steele, who is a politician and brand salesman, although 0:07:55.515 --> 0:07:57.875 he has not been active recently in the Republican Party, 0:07:58.235 --> 0:08:03.435 He's a salesman. Simone Sanders a politician and brand saleswoman 0:08:03.555 --> 0:08:08.435 from the Democratic Party. She's a saleswoman. Alicia Menendez, who 0:08:08.515 --> 0:08:11.195 is the daughter of the senator from New Jersey. You 0:08:11.275 --> 0:08:14.195 may have heard about him, who's a different kind of 0:08:14.235 --> 0:08:20.035 salesman and she has largely been a party salesperson. Nothing 0:08:20.115 --> 0:08:23.475 wrong with that show. It's been on for several years 0:08:23.475 --> 0:08:27.355 on the weekends on MSNBC, and it's kind of interesting. 0:08:27.395 --> 0:08:29.475 I suppose there's nothing wrong with it unless you want 0:08:29.515 --> 0:08:33.035 insight or commentary or new people you have not heard 0:08:33.075 --> 0:08:40.795 from before. It is textbook MSNBC. They lost the idea 0:08:40.995 --> 0:08:43.795 I gave them and thought this is what it was, 0:08:45.035 --> 0:08:50.755 salesmanship as opposed to commentary or insight. They're also offering 0:08:50.795 --> 0:08:55.395 Alex Wagner in addition to Joy Read. Alex Wagner will 0:08:55.395 --> 0:08:58.515 not return after what happens to Mattow happens at the 0:08:58.675 --> 0:09:01.555 end of the one hundred days, they may replace her 0:09:01.555 --> 0:09:06.795 with Jen Saki. And if anybody on television besides her 0:09:06.955 --> 0:09:11.075 counterparts who are all on Fox, anybody is a salesperson 0:09:11.195 --> 0:09:14.795 as opposed to an analyst or a commentator, it's Jensaki. 0:09:14.995 --> 0:09:21.115 Jensaki who recently said that she was wondering if maybe 0:09:21.315 --> 0:09:25.835 maybe she had oversold Merrick Garland and if perhaps she 0:09:25.995 --> 0:09:29.515 regretted She was beginning to wonder if she regretted doing 0:09:29.635 --> 0:09:32.915 such a good job convincing people Merrick Garland should be 0:09:32.995 --> 0:09:36.515 the Attorney General of the United States and one wonders 0:09:36.555 --> 0:09:39.195 if everything that we're going through now ends up in 0:09:39.235 --> 0:09:42.675 the worst possible place, if as we all get marched 0:09:42.755 --> 0:09:46.395 into the camps, Jensaki will be still wondering if she 0:09:46.435 --> 0:09:52.435 made a mistake supporting Merrick Garland. These people are salespersons. 0:09:53.275 --> 0:09:58.595 Salespersons doctrinaire, and often it's doctrinaire bullshit. If you have 0:09:58.755 --> 0:10:04.595 been a salesperson, a press secretary for a politician these days, 0:10:04.795 --> 0:10:11.435 you have sorry lied. Some people managed to swerve back 0:10:11.475 --> 0:10:14.275 from this to become decent human beings, believe it or not. 0:10:14.555 --> 0:10:20.555 One of Bush's secretaries, Scott McClellan, actually one day woke 0:10:20.635 --> 0:10:22.795 up and said I'm better than this and wrote a 0:10:22.875 --> 0:10:26.515 tell all book and promptly disappeared from politics. And I'm 0:10:26.515 --> 0:10:30.555 sure he's had a happy life since. Because if you're 0:10:30.555 --> 0:10:32.835 going to sell politics to people, if you're actually going 0:10:32.875 --> 0:10:35.115 to sell things that you don't believe in, that you 0:10:35.195 --> 0:10:37.835 haven't analyzed, that you can't find flaw in, that you 0:10:37.915 --> 0:10:42.595 feel like you shouldn't mention the flaws in, you're irrelevant. 0:10:43.195 --> 0:10:46.475 Michael Steele was the chairman of the Republican Party, and 0:10:46.595 --> 0:10:48.995 as much as he's come to be an anti Trump 0:10:49.115 --> 0:10:52.555 voice and a useful one. Every time I see him, 0:10:52.675 --> 0:10:57.435 I think, what is this guy trying to sell me? Also, 0:10:58.235 --> 0:11:03.595 that's a nighttime version three hosts of The Scarborough Show 0:11:03.595 --> 0:11:07.155 in the morning. But I'm wandering off the main topics here. 0:11:07.355 --> 0:11:09.915 I've had lots of problems with Alex Wagner. I've told 0:11:09.915 --> 0:11:12.915 you the stories. I told you that she was not 0:11:13.515 --> 0:11:15.795 when I tried to bring her in as the guest 0:11:15.795 --> 0:11:19.555 host who would have succeeded Lawrence O'Donnell after Laurence o'donald 0:11:19.555 --> 0:11:22.115 succeeded Rachel Mattow as the guest host on my show. 0:11:22.915 --> 0:11:24.875 I told you that it was apparent from the beginning 0:11:24.915 --> 0:11:27.195 she was not interested in doing the harder parts of 0:11:27.235 --> 0:11:30.995 the job. Very smart, insightful, obviously very good on television, 0:11:30.995 --> 0:11:34.715 but just not interested. I told the story about how 0:11:34.715 --> 0:11:36.355 she did not want to learn how to use the 0:11:36.395 --> 0:11:38.875 teleprompter and was confident she would pick it up. And 0:11:38.875 --> 0:11:40.635 that's when we sort of bailed out on her, and 0:11:40.675 --> 0:11:44.235 on her first show on MSNBC just twelve years later, 0:11:44.315 --> 0:11:47.115 the prompter failed and she did not know what to 0:11:47.155 --> 0:11:50.955 do and stood there for several moments waving at the 0:11:50.995 --> 0:11:53.475 prompter as if she could get it to move by 0:11:53.515 --> 0:11:56.595 waving at it and nobody would notice. So I have 0:11:56.675 --> 0:11:58.915 lots of problems with her. But Alex Wagner was not 0:11:58.955 --> 0:12:02.395 a salesperson for some politician or political point of view. 0:12:02.755 --> 0:12:05.755 That political points of view you might have coincided with 0:12:05.795 --> 0:12:09.155 her opinions. Yes, that was true of me too. I 0:12:09.235 --> 0:12:11.635 was not a salesperson for the Democratic Party and all 0:12:11.675 --> 0:12:14.795 things Democrat. And if you doubt that, ask Hillary Clinton 0:12:14.795 --> 0:12:17.515 how she feels about me as a salesperson for all 0:12:17.515 --> 0:12:22.315 things Democrat. But I am moving away from the main 0:12:22.395 --> 0:12:27.475 topic here. Joy Reid was fired by MSNBC. There's lots 0:12:27.515 --> 0:12:30.075 of other ways to phrase this, and I'm sure they 0:12:30.115 --> 0:12:32.515 will dress this up to some degree, and I'm sure 0:12:32.515 --> 0:12:35.475 she will get some money out of the deal. But 0:12:35.595 --> 0:12:38.995 I don't think we are really understanding the impact this 0:12:39.155 --> 0:12:42.995 is going to have on the MSNBC brand inside, the 0:12:43.035 --> 0:12:46.395 new company that's running NBC or MSNBC and the ex 0:12:46.515 --> 0:12:50.075 NBC cable networks inside that this is a big day 0:12:50.115 --> 0:12:52.355 for them because they've just removed a pain in the ass, 0:12:53.195 --> 0:12:55.715 just like when I agreed to leave after they breached 0:12:55.755 --> 0:12:58.995 my contract, even though they had to give me roughly 0:12:59.035 --> 0:13:02.115 twenty million dollars over the course of several years because 0:13:02.155 --> 0:13:05.235 they've breached my contract. They were so happy that I went. 0:13:05.715 --> 0:13:09.235 They are still happy, even though we spent the next 0:13:09.235 --> 0:13:13.475 ten years dancing about possibly me coming back because things 0:13:13.475 --> 0:13:17.475 were so bad over there. But where is the reaction here? 0:13:18.595 --> 0:13:21.395 Where's the reaction from the MSNBC host who didn't get 0:13:21.435 --> 0:13:26.035 fired in a Saturday night massacre? In all small letters, 0:13:27.675 --> 0:13:31.795 the reaction from the MSNBC hosts is no surprise. It's 0:13:31.795 --> 0:13:37.995 no surprise because there's been no reaction. Mattow, nothing, Al Sharpton. 0:13:38.595 --> 0:13:41.435 Have we heard anything from Al Sharpton? Because there's something 0:13:41.475 --> 0:13:43.835 about Joy read that I haven't gotten to yet. That's 0:13:44.155 --> 0:13:47.035 kind of important here, in addition to the fact that, 0:13:47.115 --> 0:13:51.715 just practically speaking, the conduit to bring people to MSNBC 0:13:51.915 --> 0:13:55.475 and thus to what remains of mainstream television news. The 0:13:55.595 --> 0:13:58.355 conduit the person who said, let's book this guest, and 0:13:58.435 --> 0:14:00.755 let's bring in that guy, and let's bring in this woman, 0:14:00.835 --> 0:14:03.515 and let's talk about this topic, which would have been 0:14:03.555 --> 0:14:06.915 different than everything else on the air on MSNBC. That 0:14:07.035 --> 0:14:09.555 was Joy Reid. And I had lots of problems with 0:14:09.635 --> 0:14:11.355 lots of stuff she said, and I thought lots of 0:14:11.355 --> 0:14:16.915 stuff she said was absolutely crazy, and so what going 0:14:16.955 --> 0:14:20.635 back and looking at my shows from two thousand and seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, 0:14:20.795 --> 0:14:23.355 I don't agree with everything I said then myself, let 0:14:23.395 --> 0:14:26.235 alone what other people said. It's not supposed to be 0:14:26.315 --> 0:14:30.035 like that. It's supposed to be inconsistent. It's supposed to 0:14:30.035 --> 0:14:32.915 be poking different areas to see what holds up and 0:14:32.955 --> 0:14:35.555 what doesn't. It's supposed to be saying, yeah, I like 0:14:35.635 --> 0:14:39.755 this Occupy Wall Street thing. No, this is bullshit. It's 0:14:39.795 --> 0:14:41.915 supposed to be like that. It's not supposed to be 0:14:42.235 --> 0:14:45.355 here is today's show. We could record this and play 0:14:45.355 --> 0:14:47.435 it back to you two years from now and you 0:14:47.475 --> 0:14:50.275 wouldn't know the difference. That's not what it's supposed to be. 0:14:50.355 --> 0:14:54.675 And unfortunately the entirety of the MSNBC lineup has become that, 0:14:55.035 --> 0:15:02.795 except the Morning Show, which is of course MSNVS. Because 0:15:02.835 --> 0:15:06.515 there's a problem here, larger problem, and nobody is going 0:15:06.555 --> 0:15:12.275 to say this. Do you remember Melissa Harris Perry, she 0:15:12.355 --> 0:15:14.515 used to be on My Show, later known as Melissa 0:15:14.515 --> 0:15:18.635 Harris Lacewell. They gave her her own show in large 0:15:18.635 --> 0:15:20.875 part because she did such a good job as an 0:15:20.915 --> 0:15:23.315 analyst on Mine and a couple of other shows, and 0:15:23.355 --> 0:15:26.315 she got her own show and they fired her. You 0:15:26.315 --> 0:15:30.195 remember Tiffany Cross. Now, there was somebody who liked to 0:15:30.275 --> 0:15:32.555 poke at things and see whether or not they were true. 0:15:33.235 --> 0:15:36.155 And again, lots of things she said, I went holy 0:15:36.435 --> 0:15:41.195 crap wrong. But so what you have to have room 0:15:41.235 --> 0:15:44.635 for that, and what they're saying in MSNBC is we're 0:15:44.635 --> 0:15:47.155 not going to have room for that anymore. She got fired. 0:15:47.195 --> 0:15:51.875 So Melissa Harris Lacewell, Perry or Melissa Harris Perry Lacewell, 0:15:51.875 --> 0:15:54.755 I'm sorry, Melissa. I could never keep it straight. She 0:15:54.835 --> 0:15:59.355 got fired. Tiffany Cross got fired. Remember Tiffany Cross, among 0:15:59.435 --> 0:16:04.115 the other things, Tucker Carlson attacked her. She was the 0:16:04.115 --> 0:16:06.235 one who would go back and say, this was on 0:16:06.315 --> 0:16:09.395 Fox the way I used to. Tucker Carlson claimed that 0:16:09.875 --> 0:16:14.995 Tiffany Cross was inspiring genocide like Rwanda. Seriously, MSNBC's response, 0:16:15.315 --> 0:16:18.155 rather than to come at Tucker Carlson with five million 0:16:18.235 --> 0:16:22.555 metaphorical machine guns, was to fire Tiffany Cross. Because you 0:16:22.595 --> 0:16:26.555 can have controversy as long as it's controversy trademark, and 0:16:26.635 --> 0:16:29.195 you can sell it trademark, and you can put a 0:16:29.235 --> 0:16:31.715 smile on its face trademark, and you can give it 0:16:31.755 --> 0:16:35.275 a little silly grin or a kind of sad grin, 0:16:35.755 --> 0:16:38.635 or a feel good grin, and then you can say, 0:16:38.635 --> 0:16:45.195 now here's Laurence O'Donnell. They fired her, They fired Melissa 0:16:45.195 --> 0:16:49.915 Harris Lacewell. Now they fired Joy Reid. Now they fired 0:16:49.955 --> 0:16:57.755 Alex Wagner. Humm, Melissa Harris, Perry, Tiffany Cross, Joy Reid, 0:16:57.875 --> 0:17:01.755 Alex Wagner. For women, what did they have in common? Well, 0:17:01.835 --> 0:17:06.795 let's see, they all had their own shows solo hosts 0:17:06.875 --> 0:17:10.955 on MSNBC, and they were all women of color, and 0:17:10.995 --> 0:17:16.195 they've all been fired. I believe I'm not certain of this. 0:17:16.275 --> 0:17:20.515 I didn't I spent enough time wondering about MSNBC firings. 0:17:20.755 --> 0:17:22.795 I don't need to go through the list again. Forgive 0:17:22.835 --> 0:17:24.755 me if I've gotten this wrong, but I do know 0:17:24.795 --> 0:17:28.355 they're the last, four, if not the only four women 0:17:28.395 --> 0:17:31.555 of color who have hosted shows on MSNBC. And they've 0:17:31.595 --> 0:17:34.555 all been fired, and they've all been replaced by Well, 0:17:34.595 --> 0:17:36.675 but you're what's Michael Steele was a man of color, 0:17:36.715 --> 0:17:39.235 and Simon Sanders is a woman of color, and Alicia 0:17:39.235 --> 0:17:44.595 Menendez is a woman of color. Yeah, they are official, 0:17:44.795 --> 0:17:47.915 they are safe. They are not going to do crazy 0:17:47.955 --> 0:17:50.755 things or bring on people you've never heard of before 0:17:51.115 --> 0:17:53.075 who turn out to be better than the people you've 0:17:53.115 --> 0:17:57.115 heard of. And they also may hire a professor from 0:17:57.115 --> 0:18:01.715 Columbia's a woman of color, and they fired the only 0:18:01.995 --> 0:18:06.355 remaining women of color who were solo anchoring political commentary 0:18:06.355 --> 0:18:12.435 shows on prominent national television networks. Alex Wagner I think 0:18:12.515 --> 0:18:15.315 probably is relieved by this. And it doesn't mean that 0:18:15.395 --> 0:18:17.155 just because you're a woman of color or a person 0:18:17.195 --> 0:18:19.715 of color, your show should be held to a lower 0:18:19.755 --> 0:18:22.515 standard and you should get twenty five years to improve it. No, 0:18:22.635 --> 0:18:25.875 at some point, guess what, I don't care who it is. 0:18:25.915 --> 0:18:28.395 I don't care if it's Jesus Christ fresh off the cross, 0:18:28.475 --> 0:18:31.555 a man of color that you would say, hey, you know, Jesus, 0:18:31.555 --> 0:18:35.235 I'm sorry. It doesn't quite work. And the new woodworking 0:18:35.275 --> 0:18:40.315 segments they weren't any good either. That's not the point. 0:18:40.355 --> 0:18:42.795 The point is not you must protect all people of 0:18:42.835 --> 0:18:45.475 color who get television shows, but if the show is 0:18:45.875 --> 0:18:49.795 of value, and the ratings for Joy Reid's show went 0:18:49.915 --> 0:18:53.675 up and down, just as MSNBC's overall ratings went and 0:18:54.595 --> 0:18:56.795 is it possible that maybe she wasn't best for the 0:18:56.835 --> 0:19:00.715 seven o'clock slot, Maybe maybe later in the evening, maybe 0:19:00.755 --> 0:19:03.355 there might have been a greater audience, maybe at ten o'clock. 0:19:04.235 --> 0:19:07.315 Now what they saw was people have been sharing clips 0:19:07.315 --> 0:19:11.435 of the nightmare that is the Scott what's his name? Show? 0:19:11.635 --> 0:19:15.475 Scott Jennings on CNN, which is nominally Abby Phillips show, 0:19:15.515 --> 0:19:18.395 and poor Abby Phillips goes out there, Abby Phillip, excuse me, 0:19:18.595 --> 0:19:22.395 Abby Phillip goes out there and gets tortured by this 0:19:22.835 --> 0:19:26.115 racist Scott Jennings. It's his show, and it's a bunch 0:19:26.115 --> 0:19:28.755 of people talking about how much of a racist he is. 0:19:28.955 --> 0:19:32.155 And he leans back in the chair and rocks back 0:19:32.155 --> 0:19:35.475 and forth and mugs to the camera and creates viral clips. 0:19:35.475 --> 0:19:38.675 And somebody at MSNBC said, wouldn't we rather have that 0:19:38.715 --> 0:19:42.555 than Joy Reid, who's now bald, appearing on television every 0:19:42.635 --> 0:19:44.995 night at seven o'clock? Don't we want this? Won't this 0:19:45.075 --> 0:19:47.715 make it easier to sell this company when we want to? 0:19:47.875 --> 0:19:50.355 Won't it make it easier? The next time Trump threatens 0:19:50.515 --> 0:19:53.395 NBC and MSNBC for us to say, but we fired 0:19:53.475 --> 0:20:00.755 Joy Reid. More Practically, MSNBC's problems in terms of its 0:20:00.755 --> 0:20:03.995 profitability and its ratings had nothing to do with Joy Reid. 0:20:04.675 --> 0:20:07.235 As I said, her ratings went up and down exactly 0:20:07.275 --> 0:20:10.515 as Chris Hayes's ratings went up and down, and Maddow's 0:20:10.595 --> 0:20:13.795 ratings went up and down, and Maddow's replacements like Wagner, 0:20:13.835 --> 0:20:16.115 their ratings went up and down. Lawrence O'Donnell went up 0:20:16.115 --> 0:20:18.035 and down. A Weekends went up and down, including the 0:20:18.075 --> 0:20:21.635 Simone Sanders, Michael Steele Alisha Menendez show ratings went up 0:20:21.675 --> 0:20:26.955 and down, all in the same sign curves. The problem 0:20:26.955 --> 0:20:30.315 at MSNBC is Joe Scarborough and until you fire Joe 0:20:30.315 --> 0:20:33.635 Scarborough and get rid of msn V, she and what 0:20:33.835 --> 0:20:36.795 that told people who watch that network, which I'm talking 0:20:36.835 --> 0:20:41.635 about largely because A. I did invent it. B. It 0:20:41.795 --> 0:20:45.155 is the only liberal network. It is the only thing 0:20:45.435 --> 0:20:47.835 even close to being a liberal network. And the better 0:20:47.875 --> 0:20:50.595 it is, the better it is for our society as 0:20:50.595 --> 0:20:55.595 we attempt to keep democracy or some shred of democracy alive. 0:20:55.875 --> 0:21:00.995 We need a strong, vibrant, loud, fearless MSNBC and not 0:21:02.395 --> 0:21:06.835 the view forgive me at seven o'clock night. We need 0:21:06.875 --> 0:21:09.715 people like Joy Reid. Even if you sit there and go, 0:21:09.755 --> 0:21:12.555 I'm not watching that, it's important that she's there for 0:21:12.595 --> 0:21:15.515 the people who want to identify with somebody who looks 0:21:15.555 --> 0:21:17.795 like Joy Reid and say that woman is out here 0:21:17.795 --> 0:21:21.315 trying to argue my point and is talking to me, 0:21:21.715 --> 0:21:24.035 and is bringing people who look like me and look 0:21:24.195 --> 0:21:26.675 like her onto television for the first time, and some 0:21:26.715 --> 0:21:28.835 of them are going to become superstars. And if we 0:21:28.875 --> 0:21:32.835 ever get out of this goddamned mess caused by lack 0:21:32.955 --> 0:21:36.795 of courage, often on places like MSNBC, often in places 0:21:36.875 --> 0:21:39.115 in the public discourse, we're ever going to get out 0:21:39.115 --> 0:21:41.955 of this mess and restore this democracy, it's gonna be 0:21:41.955 --> 0:21:45.035 because of people like Joyreaid. Even if you don't agree 0:21:45.035 --> 0:21:50.235 with the goddamn word she said. No, keep Joe Scarborough 0:21:50.755 --> 0:21:54.355 um now supporting Chump again. You've heard me talk about 0:21:54.435 --> 0:21:57.115 Chump being Hitler all this time. I guess I was wrong. 0:21:57.195 --> 0:21:59.475 Remember when I was trying to be his vice president. 0:22:02.915 --> 0:22:05.595 Take somebody off his show to put him on in 0:22:05.635 --> 0:22:10.235 primetime Michael Steele. Not take somebody off his show, Joe 0:22:10.235 --> 0:22:15.155 Scarborough and put anything on, including bugs bunny cartoons, would 0:22:15.155 --> 0:22:17.555 be a better political statement at seven o'clock in the 0:22:17.595 --> 0:22:22.795 morning on MSNBC, and much more consistent and eloquent, and 0:22:23.795 --> 0:22:29.195 bugs Bunny did not have a deviated septum either. One 0:22:29.355 --> 0:22:34.435 last procedural thing about this about MSNBC and it is 0:22:35.835 --> 0:22:39.675 I think of it the way I do ESPN, not 0:22:39.835 --> 0:22:44.275 like an ex spouse, but really as and it's a 0:22:44.275 --> 0:22:47.115 little pretentious, but as a child, as a child that 0:22:47.395 --> 0:22:50.595 sometimes I have had good relationships with and sometimes I 0:22:50.675 --> 0:22:52.995 have not. And to some degree it's the same thing 0:22:53.115 --> 0:22:56.355 in limited doses with ESPN. I did not father ESPN. 0:22:56.355 --> 0:22:58.515 It was well established before I got there. But there 0:22:58.515 --> 0:23:02.995 are aspects to that relationship in which I go, oh, boy, 0:23:03.435 --> 0:23:05.195 that's not going to work out for you later on. 0:23:05.275 --> 0:23:06.995 Take it from an old man, and I feel that 0:23:07.075 --> 0:23:10.875 way about MSNBC. And the other part about this is, okay, 0:23:11.075 --> 0:23:15.035 you have turmoil now. At nine o'clock, Mattow retired. Mattow 0:23:15.035 --> 0:23:16.835 went to once a week. They didn't know what to 0:23:16.875 --> 0:23:19.875 do about Mattow. Mattow's going to be replaced four days 0:23:19.955 --> 0:23:22.515 week by Alex Wagner. Oh no, that's not working. We're 0:23:22.555 --> 0:23:24.515 going to bring Mattow back for five days week. She's 0:23:24.555 --> 0:23:26.515 not going to do it long term. We'll bring Alex 0:23:26.555 --> 0:23:28.835 Wagner back after this in April. Oh no, we're not 0:23:28.875 --> 0:23:31.595 bringing her back. It's probably going to be Jensaki. You 0:23:31.635 --> 0:23:33.595 know what. Jensaki is going to prove to not really 0:23:33.675 --> 0:23:35.835 be a television person. There's going to be somebody else 0:23:35.875 --> 0:23:39.195 needed at nine o'clock. Oh and what's now create chaos 0:23:39.275 --> 0:23:42.195 at seven o'clock Because, honest to God, the first thing 0:23:42.235 --> 0:23:44.195 I thought of when I was told on Saturday night 0:23:44.315 --> 0:23:45.995 that they might get rid of joy Read, or that 0:23:46.035 --> 0:23:48.595 it was done already, the first thing I thought of. 0:23:48.795 --> 0:23:50.835 You now they're going to try to bring back Chris Matthews, 0:23:51.875 --> 0:23:54.075 because they've tried to bring back Chris Matthews in the 0:23:54.075 --> 0:23:59.315 Morning with Joe Scarborough. Because we need Chris Matthews right now, 0:23:59.475 --> 0:24:05.275 because the shallow, random firings of the few electric in 0:24:05.315 --> 0:24:10.675