1 00:00:04,795 --> 00:00:15,715 Speaker 1: Countdown with Keith Olderman is a production of iHeartRadio. This 2 00:00:15,955 --> 00:00:19,395 Speaker 1: is a Countdown Boulton podcast. I'm Keith Oldreman. The racist 3 00:00:19,515 --> 00:00:24,075 Speaker 1: purge has escalated at MSNBC. We told you this morning 4 00:00:24,155 --> 00:00:27,955 Speaker 1: about Joy Reid getting fired and no pretense being made 5 00:00:28,075 --> 00:00:31,035 Speaker 1: about why it was done, and Alex Wagner not going 6 00:00:31,115 --> 00:00:33,515 Speaker 1: to return to her own show, though supposedly staying on 7 00:00:33,595 --> 00:00:37,275 Speaker 1: as a correspondent. The number is now five. Katie Fang 8 00:00:37,555 --> 00:00:41,195 Speaker 1: is out. Her show has been canceled outright. Jonathan k 9 00:00:41,315 --> 00:00:45,075 Speaker 1: Part's show and Iman's show have also been canceled. They 10 00:00:45,115 --> 00:00:47,595 Speaker 1: may or may not stay on at the network. So 11 00:00:47,675 --> 00:00:51,715 Speaker 1: that is five Reid, Wagner, Iman, Katie Fang, and Jonathan 12 00:00:51,795 --> 00:00:55,155 Speaker 1: k Parts. What do they all have in common? This 13 00:00:55,395 --> 00:00:58,915 Speaker 1: on top of the previous firings of Meddi Hassan and 14 00:00:58,955 --> 00:01:03,675 Speaker 1: Tiffany Cross and others long before that. They did not 15 00:01:03,915 --> 00:01:06,475 Speaker 1: even attempt to cover this up with a fig leaf 16 00:01:06,555 --> 00:01:12,275 Speaker 1: by firing an unnecessary non person of color, somebody like 17 00:01:12,395 --> 00:01:15,155 Speaker 1: Stephanie Rule, who show is actually still on the air 18 00:01:15,195 --> 00:01:18,755 Speaker 1: at eleven o'clock, even though MSNBC would make more money 19 00:01:18,755 --> 00:01:22,435 Speaker 1: by simply replaying a Mattow rerun or a Hayes rerun 20 00:01:22,555 --> 00:01:26,035 Speaker 1: or an O'Donnell rerun, or a joy Read rerun. Well, 21 00:01:26,115 --> 00:01:30,115 Speaker 1: that's right, she's gone now, isn't she. After tonight, they 22 00:01:30,115 --> 00:01:33,515 Speaker 1: didn't even fire somebody as a fig leaf. That is 23 00:01:33,595 --> 00:01:38,595 Speaker 1: how truly naked. To continue the analogy, this racist purge is. 24 00:01:38,955 --> 00:01:40,955 Speaker 1: And there has not been a word from any of 25 00:01:40,995 --> 00:01:45,115 Speaker 1: the three main liberal anchors, my former guest hosts who 26 00:01:45,155 --> 00:01:50,715 Speaker 1: constitute the MSNBC primetime lineup. Because I'd like to think 27 00:01:50,755 --> 00:01:54,115 Speaker 1: they're thinking about it, I'm afraid I think they're thinking 28 00:01:54,155 --> 00:01:57,955 Speaker 1: about the money. There is a problem that happens to 29 00:01:57,995 --> 00:02:01,915 Speaker 1: someone who becomes a success suddenly and unexpectedly in their 30 00:02:01,955 --> 00:02:06,075 Speaker 1: life after failure. I've discussed it many times previously. You 31 00:02:06,115 --> 00:02:09,035 Speaker 1: suddenly wonder if it could all go away tomorrow, and 32 00:02:09,155 --> 00:02:11,675 Speaker 1: if you've had enough success and if you have had 33 00:02:11,835 --> 00:02:16,995 Speaker 1: enough money. Even if you have it doesn't register. But 34 00:02:17,115 --> 00:02:19,715 Speaker 1: back to the main point here, why on earth would 35 00:02:19,715 --> 00:02:21,835 Speaker 1: they do this? Why on earth would they do this 36 00:02:21,915 --> 00:02:25,155 Speaker 1: on the same day that NBC announces that less your 37 00:02:25,195 --> 00:02:28,395 Speaker 1: Holt is stepping down as the anchor of NBC Nightly News, 38 00:02:28,635 --> 00:02:30,835 Speaker 1: Although that had been rumored for a long time and 39 00:02:31,035 --> 00:02:34,035 Speaker 1: was apparently his choice, or at least partially his choice 40 00:02:34,035 --> 00:02:37,315 Speaker 1: to stay with the network and stick to dateline. The 41 00:02:37,515 --> 00:02:40,915 Speaker 1: nightly news format is dying finally, as we have seen 42 00:02:40,915 --> 00:02:43,795 Speaker 1: at CBS. That's perhaps separate of this, but to do 43 00:02:43,835 --> 00:02:47,155 Speaker 1: it all in a span of one day reeks of 44 00:02:47,315 --> 00:02:50,035 Speaker 1: we don't care if you think we are racist. And 45 00:02:50,075 --> 00:02:52,675 Speaker 1: the only people who would do something like that would 46 00:02:52,715 --> 00:02:55,595 Speaker 1: be people who were following the CNN game plan from 47 00:02:55,715 --> 00:03:00,595 Speaker 1: three years ago. The people who took over CNN, Warner Bros. Discovery, 48 00:03:00,795 --> 00:03:03,635 Speaker 1: led by David Zaslav and Chris Lick, who used to 49 00:03:03,635 --> 00:03:07,195 Speaker 1: be in the broadcasting business, decided rather openly to try 50 00:03:07,195 --> 00:03:09,635 Speaker 1: to make the thing right wing to please they're leading 51 00:03:09,675 --> 00:03:12,355 Speaker 1: new right wing investors. And if it didn't work, since 52 00:03:12,395 --> 00:03:15,835 Speaker 1: people simply stopped watching CNN, well so much the better. 53 00:03:16,115 --> 00:03:19,395 Speaker 1: You've neutralized CNN as a liberal outlet, or a partially 54 00:03:19,475 --> 00:03:22,555 Speaker 1: liberal outlet, or an occasionally liberal outlet, or even just 55 00:03:22,595 --> 00:03:26,915 Speaker 1: a neutral outlet, the way Twitter was neutralized by Elon Musk. 56 00:03:27,355 --> 00:03:30,595 Speaker 1: And now it comes to MSNBC. You don't go and 57 00:03:30,635 --> 00:03:33,195 Speaker 1: fire meadow. You can't. That would be the tent pole 58 00:03:33,275 --> 00:03:37,555 Speaker 1: collapsing and any value of the network completely vanishing. You 59 00:03:37,635 --> 00:03:40,795 Speaker 1: can't probably fire Hayes and O'Donnell, And what would the 60 00:03:40,835 --> 00:03:44,075 Speaker 1: difference be if you did but fire all the minorities 61 00:03:44,115 --> 00:03:46,755 Speaker 1: around the place, and you are signaling to the viewers 62 00:03:46,955 --> 00:03:50,075 Speaker 1: that you do not care about diversity of opinion in 63 00:03:50,115 --> 00:03:53,035 Speaker 1: a time in which the word diversity is suddenly like 64 00:03:53,155 --> 00:03:57,275 Speaker 1: the word communist was in the nineteen fifties. I've told 65 00:03:57,315 --> 00:04:00,435 Speaker 1: many times the story about what these networks really mean 66 00:04:00,515 --> 00:04:04,155 Speaker 1: to their corporate officers and owners. In two thousand and nine, 67 00:04:04,195 --> 00:04:06,995 Speaker 1: when Jeff Immelt, the chairman of GE, which I believe 68 00:04:07,155 --> 00:04:11,035 Speaker 1: was the sixth largest corporation in the world at that point, 69 00:04:11,755 --> 00:04:15,835 Speaker 1: was bothered by a reporter from Fox News who trailed 70 00:04:15,915 --> 00:04:18,795 Speaker 1: him and bothered him because I was critical of Fox 71 00:04:18,835 --> 00:04:21,795 Speaker 1: News and Bill O'Reilly on MSNBC. The reporter, by the way, 72 00:04:21,875 --> 00:04:24,395 Speaker 1: was named Jesse Waters. If that name rings a bell 73 00:04:25,075 --> 00:04:27,795 Speaker 1: when he was followed Immelt, that is, and he was 74 00:04:27,875 --> 00:04:32,355 Speaker 1: criticized on O'Reilly's show and accused of manufacturing parts GE 75 00:04:32,555 --> 00:04:36,355 Speaker 1: was manufacturing parts to make into IED's to kill Americans 76 00:04:36,395 --> 00:04:40,035 Speaker 1: in Iraq. When that happened, Jeff Immelt's mother, a Bill 77 00:04:40,075 --> 00:04:43,915 Speaker 1: O'Reilly fan, a Bill O'Reilly fan, called him up and 78 00:04:44,035 --> 00:04:48,155 Speaker 1: yelled at him, And after being harassed by Jesse Waters 79 00:04:48,195 --> 00:04:51,355 Speaker 1: and by his own mother, Jeff Immelt called Jeff Zooker, 80 00:04:51,355 --> 00:04:55,195 Speaker 1: the president of NBC, and said, take MSNBC off the air. 81 00:04:55,275 --> 00:04:58,435 Speaker 1: If I am bothered again by this, I am discontinuing 82 00:04:58,435 --> 00:05:02,475 Speaker 1: the network. Immediately, pay everybody off, and everybody is fired, 83 00:05:02,515 --> 00:05:05,955 Speaker 1: all at once. We were at that point perhaps profiting 84 00:05:06,355 --> 00:05:09,355 Speaker 1: two or three hundred million dollars a year, which seems 85 00:05:09,395 --> 00:05:10,915 Speaker 1: to you and me to be a lot of money. 86 00:05:11,035 --> 00:05:13,195 Speaker 1: But if yours is the fourth or fifth or sixth 87 00:05:13,235 --> 00:05:16,555 Speaker 1: largest corporation in the world, it's pocket change. You can 88 00:05:16,595 --> 00:05:20,995 Speaker 1: do without it. And even now, Comcast could spin off MSNBC, 89 00:05:21,475 --> 00:05:24,355 Speaker 1: which has been profitable through all of its travails the 90 00:05:24,435 --> 00:05:27,035 Speaker 1: last few years, and would be as profitable again as 91 00:05:27,035 --> 00:05:29,795 Speaker 1: it was during the first Trump administration with a little 92 00:05:29,875 --> 00:05:32,635 Speaker 1: care and feeding. They have spun it off with the 93 00:05:32,715 --> 00:05:36,795 Speaker 1: design to sell it and the other less than productive 94 00:05:36,875 --> 00:05:40,795 Speaker 1: cable networks to sell it, or as we are seeing here, 95 00:05:41,315 --> 00:05:44,235 Speaker 1: to kill it. But the doing of it this way 96 00:05:44,835 --> 00:05:47,435 Speaker 1: when you don't even as I said before, you don't 97 00:05:47,435 --> 00:05:51,275 Speaker 1: even offer the fig leaf of firing somebody who isn't 98 00:05:51,515 --> 00:05:55,675 Speaker 1: Mehdi Hassan or Katie Fang or Jonathan cape Hart or 99 00:05:55,755 --> 00:05:59,315 Speaker 1: Joy Reed or Alex Wagner or Eiman or any of them, 100 00:05:59,715 --> 00:06:02,715 Speaker 1: when you don't even bother to cover up what you 101 00:06:02,755 --> 00:06:07,995 Speaker 1: are doing. What you are doing is racism bluntly. If 102 00:06:08,035 --> 00:06:10,675 Speaker 1: I were Mado, if I were still working at MSNBC, 103 00:06:10,915 --> 00:06:13,075 Speaker 1: I would either go on the air and announce I 104 00:06:13,115 --> 00:06:16,395 Speaker 1: am leaving and will not return until these people are 105 00:06:16,435 --> 00:06:19,915 Speaker 1: restored or this is corrected in some other way, and 106 00:06:20,035 --> 00:06:22,755 Speaker 1: get up from the chair and let the network go 107 00:06:22,915 --> 00:06:27,515 Speaker 1: to blank, darkness or tone and bars. I would do that. 108 00:06:28,835 --> 00:06:31,755 Speaker 1: I almost did that on several occasions in two thousand 109 00:06:31,795 --> 00:06:33,795 Speaker 1: and eight, in two thousand and nine, but the crisis 110 00:06:33,835 --> 00:06:38,035 Speaker 1: was averted. I hope somewhere behind the scenes, Mattow is 111 00:06:38,075 --> 00:06:42,195 Speaker 1: doing something like that, or Hayes or O'Donnell or all 112 00:06:42,315 --> 00:06:45,875 Speaker 1: three of them. God knows. Matto and I put that 113 00:06:46,675 --> 00:06:51,035 Speaker 1: possibility to MSNBC and NBC executives several times in two 114 00:06:51,075 --> 00:06:55,795 Speaker 1: thousand and eight, nine and ten, and we prevailed. But 115 00:06:55,915 --> 00:06:57,795 Speaker 1: you have to go and do it. And if you 116 00:06:57,835 --> 00:07:02,635 Speaker 1: don't do it, Rachel, Lawrence, Chris, you are complicit in this. 117 00:07:03,035 --> 00:07:07,235 Speaker 1: And this is racism, and this is this is what 118 00:07:07,315 --> 00:07:10,835 Speaker 1: Joe Scarborough would do. I talked for half an hour 119 00:07:10,875 --> 00:07:13,995 Speaker 1: in today's episode of the podcast about the Joy Reid 120 00:07:14,075 --> 00:07:18,035 Speaker 1: firing and the Alex Wagner demotion or firing before we 121 00:07:18,115 --> 00:07:20,715 Speaker 1: knew about the rest of the purge on Monday afternoon. 122 00:07:21,475 --> 00:07:23,555 Speaker 1: I'd like to if you haven't heard that, play it 123 00:07:23,595 --> 00:07:25,635 Speaker 1: for you again. If you've heard it, feel free to 124 00:07:25,675 --> 00:07:29,315 Speaker 1: hit stop right now. This has been a countdown bulletin 125 00:07:29,395 --> 00:07:36,155 Speaker 1: podcast on the racist purge at MSNBC. I heard the 126 00:07:36,195 --> 00:07:41,355 Speaker 1: new Saturday Night Joy Reid out at MSNBC, and it turned 127 00:07:41,395 --> 00:07:44,115 Speaker 1: out to be much bigger than that. Joy Reid per 128 00:07:44,155 --> 00:07:46,835 Speaker 1: The New York Times to be replaced from her seven 129 00:07:46,875 --> 00:07:51,315 Speaker 1: PM show by moving a weekend show on MSNBC featuring 130 00:07:51,395 --> 00:07:55,475 Speaker 1: Michael Steele, who is a politician and brand salesman, although 131 00:07:55,515 --> 00:07:57,875 Speaker 1: he has not been active recently in the Republican Party, 132 00:07:58,235 --> 00:08:03,435 Speaker 1: He's a salesman. Simone Sanders a politician and brand saleswoman 133 00:08:03,555 --> 00:08:08,435 Speaker 1: from the Democratic Party. She's a saleswoman. Alicia Menendez, who 134 00:08:08,515 --> 00:08:11,195 Speaker 1: is the daughter of the senator from New Jersey. You 135 00:08:11,275 --> 00:08:14,195 Speaker 1: may have heard about him, who's a different kind of 136 00:08:14,235 --> 00:08:20,035 Speaker 1: salesman and she has largely been a party salesperson. Nothing 137 00:08:20,115 --> 00:08:23,475 Speaker 1: wrong with that show. It's been on for several years 138 00:08:23,475 --> 00:08:27,355 Speaker 1: on the weekends on MSNBC, and it's kind of interesting. 139 00:08:27,395 --> 00:08:29,475 Speaker 1: I suppose there's nothing wrong with it unless you want 140 00:08:29,515 --> 00:08:33,035 Speaker 1: insight or commentary or new people you have not heard 141 00:08:33,075 --> 00:08:40,795 Speaker 1: from before. It is textbook MSNBC. They lost the idea 142 00:08:40,995 --> 00:08:43,795 Speaker 1: I gave them and thought this is what it was, 143 00:08:45,035 --> 00:08:50,755 Speaker 1: salesmanship as opposed to commentary or insight. They're also offering 144 00:08:50,795 --> 00:08:55,395 Speaker 1: Alex Wagner in addition to Joy Read. Alex Wagner will 145 00:08:55,395 --> 00:08:58,515 Speaker 1: not return after what happens to Mattow happens at the 146 00:08:58,675 --> 00:09:01,555 Speaker 1: end of the one hundred days, they may replace her 147 00:09:01,555 --> 00:09:06,795 Speaker 1: with Jen Saki. And if anybody on television besides her 148 00:09:06,955 --> 00:09:11,075 Speaker 1: counterparts who are all on Fox, anybody is a salesperson 149 00:09:11,195 --> 00:09:14,795 Speaker 1: as opposed to an analyst or a commentator, it's Jensaki. 150 00:09:14,995 --> 00:09:21,115 Speaker 1: Jensaki who recently said that she was wondering if maybe 151 00:09:21,315 --> 00:09:25,835 Speaker 1: maybe she had oversold Merrick Garland and if perhaps she 152 00:09:25,995 --> 00:09:29,515 Speaker 1: regretted She was beginning to wonder if she regretted doing 153 00:09:29,635 --> 00:09:32,915 Speaker 1: such a good job convincing people Merrick Garland should be 154 00:09:32,995 --> 00:09:36,515 Speaker 1: the Attorney General of the United States and one wonders 155 00:09:36,555 --> 00:09:39,195 Speaker 1: if everything that we're going through now ends up in 156 00:09:39,235 --> 00:09:42,675 Speaker 1: the worst possible place, if as we all get marched 157 00:09:42,755 --> 00:09:46,395 Speaker 1: into the camps, Jensaki will be still wondering if she 158 00:09:46,435 --> 00:09:52,435 Speaker 1: made a mistake supporting Merrick Garland. These people are salespersons. 159 00:09:53,275 --> 00:09:58,595 Speaker 1: Salespersons doctrinaire, and often it's doctrinaire bullshit. If you have 160 00:09:58,755 --> 00:10:04,595 Speaker 1: been a salesperson, a press secretary for a politician these days, 161 00:10:04,795 --> 00:10:11,435 Speaker 1: you have sorry lied. Some people managed to swerve back 162 00:10:11,475 --> 00:10:14,275 Speaker 1: from this to become decent human beings, believe it or not. 163 00:10:14,555 --> 00:10:20,555 Speaker 1: One of Bush's secretaries, Scott McClellan, actually one day woke 164 00:10:20,635 --> 00:10:22,795 Speaker 1: up and said I'm better than this and wrote a 165 00:10:22,875 --> 00:10:26,515 Speaker 1: tell all book and promptly disappeared from politics. And I'm 166 00:10:26,515 --> 00:10:30,555 Speaker 1: sure he's had a happy life since. Because if you're 167 00:10:30,555 --> 00:10:32,835 Speaker 1: going to sell politics to people, if you're actually going 168 00:10:32,875 --> 00:10:35,115 Speaker 1: to sell things that you don't believe in, that you 169 00:10:35,195 --> 00:10:37,835 Speaker 1: haven't analyzed, that you can't find flaw in, that you 170 00:10:37,915 --> 00:10:42,595 Speaker 1: feel like you shouldn't mention the flaws in, you're irrelevant. 171 00:10:43,195 --> 00:10:46,475 Speaker 1: Michael Steele was the chairman of the Republican Party, and 172 00:10:46,595 --> 00:10:48,995 Speaker 1: as much as he's come to be an anti Trump 173 00:10:49,115 --> 00:10:52,555 Speaker 1: voice and a useful one. Every time I see him, 174 00:10:52,675 --> 00:10:57,435 Speaker 1: I think, what is this guy trying to sell me? Also, 175 00:10:58,235 --> 00:11:03,595 Speaker 1: that's a nighttime version three hosts of The Scarborough Show 176 00:11:03,595 --> 00:11:07,155 Speaker 1: in the morning. But I'm wandering off the main topics here. 177 00:11:07,355 --> 00:11:09,915 Speaker 1: I've had lots of problems with Alex Wagner. I've told 178 00:11:09,915 --> 00:11:12,915 Speaker 1: you the stories. I told you that she was not 179 00:11:13,515 --> 00:11:15,795 Speaker 1: when I tried to bring her in as the guest 180 00:11:15,795 --> 00:11:19,555 Speaker 1: host who would have succeeded Lawrence O'Donnell after Laurence o'donald 181 00:11:19,555 --> 00:11:22,115 Speaker 1: succeeded Rachel Mattow as the guest host on my show. 182 00:11:22,915 --> 00:11:24,875 Speaker 1: I told you that it was apparent from the beginning 183 00:11:24,915 --> 00:11:27,195 Speaker 1: she was not interested in doing the harder parts of 184 00:11:27,235 --> 00:11:30,995 Speaker 1: the job. Very smart, insightful, obviously very good on television, 185 00:11:30,995 --> 00:11:34,715 Speaker 1: but just not interested. I told the story about how 186 00:11:34,715 --> 00:11:36,355 Speaker 1: she did not want to learn how to use the 187 00:11:36,395 --> 00:11:38,875 Speaker 1: teleprompter and was confident she would pick it up. And 188 00:11:38,875 --> 00:11:40,635 Speaker 1: that's when we sort of bailed out on her, and 189 00:11:40,675 --> 00:11:44,235 Speaker 1: on her first show on MSNBC just twelve years later, 190 00:11:44,315 --> 00:11:47,115 Speaker 1: the prompter failed and she did not know what to 191 00:11:47,155 --> 00:11:50,955 Speaker 1: do and stood there for several moments waving at the 192 00:11:50,995 --> 00:11:53,475 Speaker 1: prompter as if she could get it to move by 193 00:11:53,515 --> 00:11:56,595 Speaker 1: waving at it and nobody would notice. So I have 194 00:11:56,675 --> 00:11:58,915 Speaker 1: lots of problems with her. But Alex Wagner was not 195 00:11:58,955 --> 00:12:02,395 Speaker 1: a salesperson for some politician or political point of view. 196 00:12:02,755 --> 00:12:05,755 Speaker 1: That political points of view you might have coincided with 197 00:12:05,795 --> 00:12:09,155 Speaker 1: her opinions. Yes, that was true of me too. I 198 00:12:09,235 --> 00:12:11,635 Speaker 1: was not a salesperson for the Democratic Party and all 199 00:12:11,675 --> 00:12:14,795 Speaker 1: things Democrat. And if you doubt that, ask Hillary Clinton 200 00:12:14,795 --> 00:12:17,515 Speaker 1: how she feels about me as a salesperson for all 201 00:12:17,515 --> 00:12:22,315 Speaker 1: things Democrat. But I am moving away from the main 202 00:12:22,395 --> 00:12:27,475 Speaker 1: topic here. Joy Reid was fired by MSNBC. There's lots 203 00:12:27,515 --> 00:12:30,075 Speaker 1: of other ways to phrase this, and I'm sure they 204 00:12:30,115 --> 00:12:32,515 Speaker 1: will dress this up to some degree, and I'm sure 205 00:12:32,515 --> 00:12:35,475 Speaker 1: she will get some money out of the deal. But 206 00:12:35,595 --> 00:12:38,995 Speaker 1: I don't think we are really understanding the impact this 207 00:12:39,155 --> 00:12:42,995 Speaker 1: is going to have on the MSNBC brand inside, the 208 00:12:43,035 --> 00:12:46,395 Speaker 1: new company that's running NBC or MSNBC and the ex 209 00:12:46,515 --> 00:12:50,075 Speaker 1: NBC cable networks inside that this is a big day 210 00:12:50,115 --> 00:12:52,355 Speaker 1: for them because they've just removed a pain in the ass, 211 00:12:53,195 --> 00:12:55,715 Speaker 1: just like when I agreed to leave after they breached 212 00:12:55,755 --> 00:12:58,995 Speaker 1: my contract, even though they had to give me roughly 213 00:12:59,035 --> 00:13:02,115 Speaker 1: twenty million dollars over the course of several years because 214 00:13:02,155 --> 00:13:05,235 Speaker 1: they've breached my contract. They were so happy that I went. 215 00:13:05,715 --> 00:13:09,235 Speaker 1: They are still happy, even though we spent the next 216 00:13:09,235 --> 00:13:13,475 Speaker 1: ten years dancing about possibly me coming back because things 217 00:13:13,475 --> 00:13:17,475 Speaker 1: were so bad over there. But where is the reaction here? 218 00:13:18,595 --> 00:13:21,395 Speaker 1: Where's the reaction from the MSNBC host who didn't get 219 00:13:21,435 --> 00:13:26,035 Speaker 1: fired in a Saturday night massacre? In all small letters, 220 00:13:27,675 --> 00:13:31,795 Speaker 1: the reaction from the MSNBC hosts is no surprise. It's 221 00:13:31,795 --> 00:13:37,995 Speaker 1: no surprise because there's been no reaction. Mattow, nothing, Al Sharpton. 222 00:13:38,595 --> 00:13:41,435 Speaker 1: Have we heard anything from Al Sharpton? Because there's something 223 00:13:41,475 --> 00:13:43,835 Speaker 1: about Joy read that I haven't gotten to yet. That's 224 00:13:44,155 --> 00:13:47,035 Speaker 1: kind of important here, in addition to the fact that, 225 00:13:47,115 --> 00:13:51,715 Speaker 1: just practically speaking, the conduit to bring people to MSNBC 226 00:13:51,915 --> 00:13:55,475 Speaker 1: and thus to what remains of mainstream television news. The 227 00:13:55,595 --> 00:13:58,355 Speaker 1: conduit the person who said, let's book this guest, and 228 00:13:58,435 --> 00:14:00,755 Speaker 1: let's bring in that guy, and let's bring in this woman, 229 00:14:00,835 --> 00:14:03,515 Speaker 1: and let's talk about this topic, which would have been 230 00:14:03,555 --> 00:14:06,915 Speaker 1: different than everything else on the air on MSNBC. That 231 00:14:07,035 --> 00:14:09,555 Speaker 1: was Joy Reid. And I had lots of problems with 232 00:14:09,635 --> 00:14:11,355 Speaker 1: lots of stuff she said, and I thought lots of 233 00:14:11,355 --> 00:14:16,915 Speaker 1: stuff she said was absolutely crazy, and so what going 234 00:14:16,955 --> 00:14:20,635 Speaker 1: back and looking at my shows from two thousand and seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, 235 00:14:20,795 --> 00:14:23,355 Speaker 1: I don't agree with everything I said then myself, let 236 00:14:23,395 --> 00:14:26,235 Speaker 1: alone what other people said. It's not supposed to be 237 00:14:26,315 --> 00:14:30,035 Speaker 1: like that. It's supposed to be inconsistent. It's supposed to 238 00:14:30,035 --> 00:14:32,915 Speaker 1: be poking different areas to see what holds up and 239 00:14:32,955 --> 00:14:35,555 Speaker 1: what doesn't. It's supposed to be saying, yeah, I like 240 00:14:35,635 --> 00:14:39,755 Speaker 1: this Occupy Wall Street thing. No, this is bullshit. It's 241 00:14:39,795 --> 00:14:41,915 Speaker 1: supposed to be like that. It's not supposed to be 242 00:14:42,235 --> 00:14:45,355 Speaker 1: here is today's show. We could record this and play 243 00:14:45,355 --> 00:14:47,435 Speaker 1: it back to you two years from now and you 244 00:14:47,475 --> 00:14:50,275 Speaker 1: wouldn't know the difference. That's not what it's supposed to be. 245 00:14:50,355 --> 00:14:54,675 Speaker 1: And unfortunately the entirety of the MSNBC lineup has become that, 246 00:14:55,035 --> 00:15:02,795 Speaker 1: except the Morning Show, which is of course MSNVS. Because 247 00:15:02,835 --> 00:15:06,515 Speaker 1: there's a problem here, larger problem, and nobody is going 248 00:15:06,555 --> 00:15:12,275 Speaker 1: to say this. Do you remember Melissa Harris Perry, she 249 00:15:12,355 --> 00:15:14,515 Speaker 1: used to be on My Show, later known as Melissa 250 00:15:14,515 --> 00:15:18,635 Speaker 1: Harris Lacewell. They gave her her own show in large 251 00:15:18,635 --> 00:15:20,875 Speaker 1: part because she did such a good job as an 252 00:15:20,915 --> 00:15:23,315 Speaker 1: analyst on Mine and a couple of other shows, and 253 00:15:23,355 --> 00:15:26,315 Speaker 1: she got her own show and they fired her. You 254 00:15:26,315 --> 00:15:30,195 Speaker 1: remember Tiffany Cross. Now, there was somebody who liked to 255 00:15:30,275 --> 00:15:32,555 Speaker 1: poke at things and see whether or not they were true. 256 00:15:33,235 --> 00:15:36,155 Speaker 1: And again, lots of things she said, I went holy 257 00:15:36,435 --> 00:15:41,195 Speaker 1: crap wrong. But so what you have to have room 258 00:15:41,235 --> 00:15:44,635 Speaker 1: for that, and what they're saying in MSNBC is we're 259 00:15:44,635 --> 00:15:47,155 Speaker 1: not going to have room for that anymore. She got fired. 260 00:15:47,195 --> 00:15:51,875 Speaker 1: So Melissa Harris Lacewell, Perry or Melissa Harris Perry Lacewell, 261 00:15:51,875 --> 00:15:54,755 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Melissa. I could never keep it straight. She 262 00:15:54,835 --> 00:15:59,355 Speaker 1: got fired. Tiffany Cross got fired. Remember Tiffany Cross, among 263 00:15:59,435 --> 00:16:04,115 Speaker 1: the other things, Tucker Carlson attacked her. She was the 264 00:16:04,115 --> 00:16:06,235 Speaker 1: one who would go back and say, this was on 265 00:16:06,315 --> 00:16:09,395 Speaker 1: Fox the way I used to. Tucker Carlson claimed that 266 00:16:09,875 --> 00:16:14,995 Speaker 1: Tiffany Cross was inspiring genocide like Rwanda. Seriously, MSNBC's response, 267 00:16:15,315 --> 00:16:18,155 Speaker 1: rather than to come at Tucker Carlson with five million 268 00:16:18,235 --> 00:16:22,555 Speaker 1: metaphorical machine guns, was to fire Tiffany Cross. Because you 269 00:16:22,595 --> 00:16:26,555 Speaker 1: can have controversy as long as it's controversy trademark, and 270 00:16:26,635 --> 00:16:29,195 Speaker 1: you can sell it trademark, and you can put a 271 00:16:29,235 --> 00:16:31,715 Speaker 1: smile on its face trademark, and you can give it 272 00:16:31,755 --> 00:16:35,275 Speaker 1: a little silly grin or a kind of sad grin, 273 00:16:35,755 --> 00:16:38,635 Speaker 1: or a feel good grin, and then you can say, 274 00:16:38,635 --> 00:16:45,195 Speaker 1: now here's Laurence O'Donnell. They fired her, They fired Melissa 275 00:16:45,195 --> 00:16:49,915 Speaker 1: Harris Lacewell. Now they fired Joy Reid. Now they fired 276 00:16:49,955 --> 00:16:57,755 Speaker 1: Alex Wagner. Humm, Melissa Harris, Perry, Tiffany Cross, Joy Reid, 277 00:16:57,875 --> 00:17:01,755 Speaker 1: Alex Wagner. For women, what did they have in common? Well, 278 00:17:01,835 --> 00:17:06,795 Speaker 1: let's see, they all had their own shows solo hosts 279 00:17:06,875 --> 00:17:10,955 Speaker 1: on MSNBC, and they were all women of color, and 280 00:17:10,995 --> 00:17:16,195 Speaker 1: they've all been fired. I believe I'm not certain of this. 281 00:17:16,275 --> 00:17:20,515 Speaker 1: I didn't I spent enough time wondering about MSNBC firings. 282 00:17:20,755 --> 00:17:22,795 Speaker 1: I don't need to go through the list again. Forgive 283 00:17:22,835 --> 00:17:24,755 Speaker 1: me if I've gotten this wrong, but I do know 284 00:17:24,795 --> 00:17:28,355 Speaker 1: they're the last, four, if not the only four women 285 00:17:28,395 --> 00:17:31,555 Speaker 1: of color who have hosted shows on MSNBC. And they've 286 00:17:31,595 --> 00:17:34,555 Speaker 1: all been fired, and they've all been replaced by Well, 287 00:17:34,595 --> 00:17:36,675 Speaker 1: but you're what's Michael Steele was a man of color, 288 00:17:36,715 --> 00:17:39,235 Speaker 1: and Simon Sanders is a woman of color, and Alicia 289 00:17:39,235 --> 00:17:44,595 Speaker 1: Menendez is a woman of color. Yeah, they are official, 290 00:17:44,795 --> 00:17:47,915 Speaker 1: they are safe. They are not going to do crazy 291 00:17:47,955 --> 00:17:50,755 Speaker 1: things or bring on people you've never heard of before 292 00:17:51,115 --> 00:17:53,075 Speaker 1: who turn out to be better than the people you've 293 00:17:53,115 --> 00:17:57,115 Speaker 1: heard of. And they also may hire a professor from 294 00:17:57,115 --> 00:18:01,715 Speaker 1: Columbia's a woman of color, and they fired the only 295 00:18:01,995 --> 00:18:06,355 Speaker 1: remaining women of color who were solo anchoring political commentary 296 00:18:06,355 --> 00:18:12,435 Speaker 1: shows on prominent national television networks. Alex Wagner I think 297 00:18:12,515 --> 00:18:15,315 Speaker 1: probably is relieved by this. And it doesn't mean that 298 00:18:15,395 --> 00:18:17,155 Speaker 1: just because you're a woman of color or a person 299 00:18:17,195 --> 00:18:19,715 Speaker 1: of color, your show should be held to a lower 300 00:18:19,755 --> 00:18:22,515 Speaker 1: standard and you should get twenty five years to improve it. No, 301 00:18:22,635 --> 00:18:25,875 Speaker 1: at some point, guess what, I don't care who it is. 302 00:18:25,915 --> 00:18:28,395 Speaker 1: I don't care if it's Jesus Christ fresh off the cross, 303 00:18:28,475 --> 00:18:31,555 Speaker 1: a man of color that you would say, hey, you know, Jesus, 304 00:18:31,555 --> 00:18:35,235 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. It doesn't quite work. And the new woodworking 305 00:18:35,275 --> 00:18:40,315 Speaker 1: segments they weren't any good either. That's not the point. 306 00:18:40,355 --> 00:18:42,795 Speaker 1: The point is not you must protect all people of 307 00:18:42,835 --> 00:18:45,475 Speaker 1: color who get television shows, but if the show is 308 00:18:45,875 --> 00:18:49,795 Speaker 1: of value, and the ratings for Joy Reid's show went 309 00:18:49,915 --> 00:18:53,675 Speaker 1: up and down, just as MSNBC's overall ratings went and 310 00:18:54,595 --> 00:18:56,795 Speaker 1: is it possible that maybe she wasn't best for the 311 00:18:56,835 --> 00:19:00,715 Speaker 1: seven o'clock slot, Maybe maybe later in the evening, maybe 312 00:19:00,755 --> 00:19:03,355 Speaker 1: there might have been a greater audience, maybe at ten o'clock. 313 00:19:04,235 --> 00:19:07,315 Speaker 1: Now what they saw was people have been sharing clips 314 00:19:07,315 --> 00:19:11,435 Speaker 1: of the nightmare that is the Scott what's his name? Show? 315 00:19:11,635 --> 00:19:15,475 Speaker 1: Scott Jennings on CNN, which is nominally Abby Phillips show, 316 00:19:15,515 --> 00:19:18,395 Speaker 1: and poor Abby Phillips goes out there, Abby Phillip, excuse me, 317 00:19:18,595 --> 00:19:22,395 Speaker 1: Abby Phillip goes out there and gets tortured by this 318 00:19:22,835 --> 00:19:26,115 Speaker 1: racist Scott Jennings. It's his show, and it's a bunch 319 00:19:26,115 --> 00:19:28,755 Speaker 1: of people talking about how much of a racist he is. 320 00:19:28,955 --> 00:19:32,155 Speaker 1: And he leans back in the chair and rocks back 321 00:19:32,155 --> 00:19:35,475 Speaker 1: and forth and mugs to the camera and creates viral clips. 322 00:19:35,475 --> 00:19:38,675 Speaker 1: And somebody at MSNBC said, wouldn't we rather have that 323 00:19:38,715 --> 00:19:42,555 Speaker 1: than Joy Reid, who's now bald, appearing on television every 324 00:19:42,635 --> 00:19:44,995 Speaker 1: night at seven o'clock? Don't we want this? Won't this 325 00:19:45,075 --> 00:19:47,715 Speaker 1: make it easier to sell this company when we want to? 326 00:19:47,875 --> 00:19:50,355 Speaker 1: Won't it make it easier? The next time Trump threatens 327 00:19:50,515 --> 00:19:53,395 Speaker 1: NBC and MSNBC for us to say, but we fired 328 00:19:53,475 --> 00:20:00,755 Speaker 1: Joy Reid. More Practically, MSNBC's problems in terms of its 329 00:20:00,755 --> 00:20:03,995 Speaker 1: profitability and its ratings had nothing to do with Joy Reid. 330 00:20:04,675 --> 00:20:07,235 Speaker 1: As I said, her ratings went up and down exactly 331 00:20:07,275 --> 00:20:10,515 Speaker 1: as Chris Hayes's ratings went up and down, and Maddow's 332 00:20:10,595 --> 00:20:13,795 Speaker 1: ratings went up and down, and Maddow's replacements like Wagner, 333 00:20:13,835 --> 00:20:16,115 Speaker 1: their ratings went up and down. Lawrence O'Donnell went up 334 00:20:16,115 --> 00:20:18,035 Speaker 1: and down. A Weekends went up and down, including the 335 00:20:18,075 --> 00:20:21,635 Speaker 1: Simone Sanders, Michael Steele Alisha Menendez show ratings went up 336 00:20:21,675 --> 00:20:26,955 Speaker 1: and down, all in the same sign curves. The problem 337 00:20:26,955 --> 00:20:30,315 Speaker 1: at MSNBC is Joe Scarborough and until you fire Joe 338 00:20:30,315 --> 00:20:33,635 Speaker 1: Scarborough and get rid of msn V, she and what 339 00:20:33,835 --> 00:20:36,795 Speaker 1: that told people who watch that network, which I'm talking 340 00:20:36,835 --> 00:20:41,635 Speaker 1: about largely because A. I did invent it. B. It 341 00:20:41,795 --> 00:20:45,155 Speaker 1: is the only liberal network. It is the only thing 342 00:20:45,435 --> 00:20:47,835 Speaker 1: even close to being a liberal network. And the better 343 00:20:47,875 --> 00:20:50,595 Speaker 1: it is, the better it is for our society as 344 00:20:50,595 --> 00:20:55,595 Speaker 1: we attempt to keep democracy or some shred of democracy alive. 345 00:20:55,875 --> 00:21:00,995 Speaker 1: We need a strong, vibrant, loud, fearless MSNBC and not 346 00:21:02,395 --> 00:21:06,835 Speaker 1: the view forgive me at seven o'clock night. We need 347 00:21:06,875 --> 00:21:09,715 Speaker 1: people like Joy Reid. Even if you sit there and go, 348 00:21:09,755 --> 00:21:12,555 Speaker 1: I'm not watching that, it's important that she's there for 349 00:21:12,595 --> 00:21:15,515 Speaker 1: the people who want to identify with somebody who looks 350 00:21:15,555 --> 00:21:17,795 Speaker 1: like Joy Reid and say that woman is out here 351 00:21:17,795 --> 00:21:21,315 Speaker 1: trying to argue my point and is talking to me, 352 00:21:21,715 --> 00:21:24,035 Speaker 1: and is bringing people who look like me and look 353 00:21:24,195 --> 00:21:26,675 Speaker 1: like her onto television for the first time, and some 354 00:21:26,715 --> 00:21:28,835 Speaker 1: of them are going to become superstars. And if we 355 00:21:28,875 --> 00:21:32,835 Speaker 1: ever get out of this goddamned mess caused by lack 356 00:21:32,955 --> 00:21:36,795 Speaker 1: of courage, often on places like MSNBC, often in places 357 00:21:36,875 --> 00:21:39,115 Speaker 1: in the public discourse, we're ever going to get out 358 00:21:39,115 --> 00:21:41,955 Speaker 1: of this mess and restore this democracy, it's gonna be 359 00:21:41,955 --> 00:21:45,035 Speaker 1: because of people like Joyreaid. Even if you don't agree 360 00:21:45,035 --> 00:21:50,235 Speaker 1: with the goddamn word she said. No, keep Joe Scarborough 361 00:21:50,755 --> 00:21:54,355 Speaker 1: um now supporting Chump again. You've heard me talk about 362 00:21:54,435 --> 00:21:57,115 Speaker 1: Chump being Hitler all this time. I guess I was wrong. 363 00:21:57,195 --> 00:21:59,475 Speaker 1: Remember when I was trying to be his vice president. 364 00:22:02,915 --> 00:22:05,595 Speaker 1: Take somebody off his show to put him on in 365 00:22:05,635 --> 00:22:10,235 Speaker 1: primetime Michael Steele. Not take somebody off his show, Joe 366 00:22:10,235 --> 00:22:15,155 Speaker 1: Scarborough and put anything on, including bugs bunny cartoons, would 367 00:22:15,155 --> 00:22:17,555 Speaker 1: be a better political statement at seven o'clock in the 368 00:22:17,595 --> 00:22:22,795 Speaker 1: morning on MSNBC, and much more consistent and eloquent, and 369 00:22:23,795 --> 00:22:29,195 Speaker 1: bugs Bunny did not have a deviated septum either. One 370 00:22:29,355 --> 00:22:34,435 Speaker 1: last procedural thing about this about MSNBC and it is 371 00:22:35,835 --> 00:22:39,675 Speaker 1: I think of it the way I do ESPN, not 372 00:22:39,835 --> 00:22:44,275 Speaker 1: like an ex spouse, but really as and it's a 373 00:22:44,275 --> 00:22:47,115 Speaker 1: little pretentious, but as a child, as a child that 374 00:22:47,395 --> 00:22:50,595 Speaker 1: sometimes I have had good relationships with and sometimes I 375 00:22:50,675 --> 00:22:52,995 Speaker 1: have not. And to some degree it's the same thing 376 00:22:53,115 --> 00:22:56,355 Speaker 1: in limited doses with ESPN. I did not father ESPN. 377 00:22:56,355 --> 00:22:58,515 Speaker 1: It was well established before I got there. But there 378 00:22:58,515 --> 00:23:02,995 Speaker 1: are aspects to that relationship in which I go, oh, boy, 379 00:23:03,435 --> 00:23:05,195 Speaker 1: that's not going to work out for you later on. 380 00:23:05,275 --> 00:23:06,995 Speaker 1: Take it from an old man, and I feel that 381 00:23:07,075 --> 00:23:10,875 Speaker 1: way about MSNBC. And the other part about this is, okay, 382 00:23:11,075 --> 00:23:15,035 Speaker 1: you have turmoil now. At nine o'clock, Mattow retired. Mattow 383 00:23:15,035 --> 00:23:16,835 Speaker 1: went to once a week. They didn't know what to 384 00:23:16,875 --> 00:23:19,875 Speaker 1: do about Mattow. Mattow's going to be replaced four days 385 00:23:19,955 --> 00:23:22,515 Speaker 1: week by Alex Wagner. Oh no, that's not working. We're 386 00:23:22,555 --> 00:23:24,515 Speaker 1: going to bring Mattow back for five days week. She's 387 00:23:24,555 --> 00:23:26,515 Speaker 1: not going to do it long term. We'll bring Alex 388 00:23:26,555 --> 00:23:28,835 Speaker 1: Wagner back after this in April. Oh no, we're not 389 00:23:28,875 --> 00:23:31,595 Speaker 1: bringing her back. It's probably going to be Jensaki. You 390 00:23:31,635 --> 00:23:33,595 Speaker 1: know what. Jensaki is going to prove to not really 391 00:23:33,675 --> 00:23:35,835 Speaker 1: be a television person. There's going to be somebody else 392 00:23:35,875 --> 00:23:39,195 Speaker 1: needed at nine o'clock. Oh and what's now create chaos 393 00:23:39,275 --> 00:23:42,195 Speaker 1: at seven o'clock Because, honest to God, the first thing 394 00:23:42,235 --> 00:23:44,195 Speaker 1: I thought of when I was told on Saturday night 395 00:23:44,315 --> 00:23:45,995 Speaker 1: that they might get rid of joy Read, or that 396 00:23:46,035 --> 00:23:48,595 Speaker 1: it was done already, the first thing I thought of. 397 00:23:48,795 --> 00:23:50,835 Speaker 1: You now they're going to try to bring back Chris Matthews, 398 00:23:51,875 --> 00:23:54,075 Speaker 1: because they've tried to bring back Chris Matthews in the 399 00:23:54,075 --> 00:23:59,315 Speaker 1: Morning with Joe Scarborough. Because we need Chris Matthews right now, 400 00:23:59,475 --> 00:24:05,275 Speaker 1: because the shallow, random firings of the few electric in 401 00:24:05,315 --> 00:24:10,675 Speaker 1: his brain, something actually getting across those synapses knocking his 402 00:24:11,035 --> 00:24:13,635 Speaker 1: references to himself out of the way for a brief second. 403 00:24:13,795 --> 00:24:17,595 Speaker 1: That's exactly what MSNBC and the political dialogue needs right now, 404 00:24:17,835 --> 00:24:23,195 Speaker 1: Joe Scarborough and Chris Matthews. When we go to the 405 00:24:23,195 --> 00:24:26,995 Speaker 1: camps and the doors open, the guys in the hats 406 00:24:27,075 --> 00:24:30,715 Speaker 1: with the keys will be Joe Scarborough and Chris Matthews. 407 00:24:32,155 --> 00:24:34,435 Speaker 1: But back to the point about Joy Reid, and I 408 00:24:34,555 --> 00:24:36,915 Speaker 1: would love to see I would love to come to 409 00:24:36,955 --> 00:24:39,235 Speaker 1: you again on Thursday and say, you know what, I 410 00:24:39,355 --> 00:24:43,475 Speaker 1: apologize to this MSNBC anchor, and I apologize to Al Sharpton, 411 00:24:43,515 --> 00:24:46,115 Speaker 1: and I apologize to this group that I said they 412 00:24:46,115 --> 00:24:48,515 Speaker 1: were going to say nothing. And look at this. There's 413 00:24:48,555 --> 00:24:52,595 Speaker 1: a five thousand person encampment outside thirty Rock protesting Joy 414 00:24:52,675 --> 00:24:55,875 Speaker 1: Reid getting fired. I'd love to say that to you. 415 00:24:55,955 --> 00:24:58,075 Speaker 1: I do not expect to have to do it. I'm 416 00:24:58,115 --> 00:25:00,995 Speaker 1: not writing notes down for Thursday's show about the big 417 00:25:01,035 --> 00:25:06,555 Speaker 1: backlash within MSNBC about Joy Reid because Joy Reid threatens 418 00:25:06,595 --> 00:25:11,555 Speaker 1: all their money. Joy Reid says something controversial. Rachel Maddow 419 00:25:11,635 --> 00:25:14,555 Speaker 1: thinks I have twenty five million dollars coming to me. 420 00:25:14,715 --> 00:25:21,795 Speaker 1: I want my money. But the chaos is the real legend, 421 00:25:21,995 --> 00:25:25,155 Speaker 1: the real history of MSNBC. I don't know that I've 422 00:25:25,195 --> 00:25:27,875 Speaker 1: ever shared this with you. It took a friend of 423 00:25:27,875 --> 00:25:31,275 Speaker 1: mine named Rainy and I several days' worth of going 424 00:25:31,315 --> 00:25:35,435 Speaker 1: through old memos to compile this list. I've told you 425 00:25:35,475 --> 00:25:38,555 Speaker 1: many times that I worked and this is my story 426 00:25:38,555 --> 00:25:40,835 Speaker 1: about Joy Reid getting fired. It of course comes back 427 00:25:40,875 --> 00:25:47,595 Speaker 1: to me. I worked at MSNBC from its second year 428 00:25:47,675 --> 00:25:49,795 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven through the end of its third year 429 00:25:49,875 --> 00:25:51,795 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight. I did the eight o'clock show. It 430 00:25:51,835 --> 00:25:54,275 Speaker 1: is the first show anybody paid attention to on MSNBC, 431 00:25:54,595 --> 00:25:56,795 Speaker 1: and eventually I couldn't stand doing it anymore. It was 432 00:25:56,835 --> 00:25:58,795 Speaker 1: all about Bill Clinton, and I couldn't do it anymore, 433 00:25:58,955 --> 00:26:00,635 Speaker 1: and they sold me to Fox and I got out, 434 00:26:00,795 --> 00:26:02,835 Speaker 1: and then that didn't work and I went to see 435 00:26:02,875 --> 00:26:05,595 Speaker 1: it in for a while and they Connie Chung to 436 00:26:05,635 --> 00:26:07,475 Speaker 1: host their eight o'clock show instead of me, so that 437 00:26:07,475 --> 00:26:10,915 Speaker 1: didn't work out, and NBC was short an anchor at 438 00:26:11,035 --> 00:26:13,275 Speaker 1: MSNBC and invited me to come over for a couple 439 00:26:13,355 --> 00:26:15,315 Speaker 1: of days, and the next thing I knew, I signed 440 00:26:15,315 --> 00:26:17,555 Speaker 1: a contract to do the eight o'clock show again five 441 00:26:17,635 --> 00:26:20,395 Speaker 1: years later, and my friend Rany and I before it 442 00:26:20,475 --> 00:26:22,035 Speaker 1: was a parent that I was going to stay there 443 00:26:22,115 --> 00:26:23,595 Speaker 1: when it looked like I was just there for a 444 00:26:23,595 --> 00:26:26,035 Speaker 1: couple of days filling in because they were short of anchors. 445 00:26:26,235 --> 00:26:29,955 Speaker 1: We compiled this list of all the shows that had 446 00:26:29,955 --> 00:26:33,595 Speaker 1: been on after I left the network. On December fourth, 447 00:26:33,715 --> 00:26:36,075 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight. And this is my fear of what 448 00:26:36,195 --> 00:26:38,595 Speaker 1: is going to happen at MSNBC in the next couple 449 00:26:38,595 --> 00:26:42,715 Speaker 1: of years. The Revolving Door, the Game of Musical Chairs. 450 00:26:42,955 --> 00:26:46,715 Speaker 1: Just listen to this. So they had started the network 451 00:26:46,915 --> 00:26:50,155 Speaker 1: with a show called Internight, which had like sixteen different hosts. 452 00:26:50,555 --> 00:26:52,355 Speaker 1: They'd try to get somebody to sit down and do 453 00:26:52,395 --> 00:26:54,915 Speaker 1: an hour long interview, and they had everybody from Bob 454 00:26:54,995 --> 00:26:59,435 Speaker 1: Costas to Bill Moyers. They had sixteen different hosts and 455 00:26:59,475 --> 00:27:01,235 Speaker 1: it was filmed. It was on at eight o'clock at night, 456 00:27:01,275 --> 00:27:04,075 Speaker 1: and nobody watched it. So they needed a live television 457 00:27:04,075 --> 00:27:07,275 Speaker 1: news show before the Brian Williams newscast at nine o'clock. 458 00:27:07,315 --> 00:27:09,955 Speaker 1: And I was it October first, nineteen ninety seven to 459 00:27:10,115 --> 00:27:13,435 Speaker 1: December fourth, nineteen ninety eight, and then I escaped and 460 00:27:13,475 --> 00:27:15,555 Speaker 1: they replaced me with a guy who they thought was 461 00:27:15,595 --> 00:27:20,795 Speaker 1: exactly the same kind of show, John Hockenberry. John lasted 462 00:27:20,795 --> 00:27:23,115 Speaker 1: from December of ninety eight all the way through to 463 00:27:23,195 --> 00:27:27,675 Speaker 1: February of ninety nine, and then eventually they moved him 464 00:27:27,715 --> 00:27:29,595 Speaker 1: to the afternoon and when they fired him in August 465 00:27:29,595 --> 00:27:31,635 Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety nine, and his last show. He asked 466 00:27:31,715 --> 00:27:35,355 Speaker 1: rhetorically how much does cable suck? And the answer is 467 00:27:35,395 --> 00:27:39,115 Speaker 1: still being played out. John had all kinds of problems 468 00:27:40,195 --> 00:27:45,715 Speaker 1: dealing with women, as in he was a sexual harriser. Okay, anyway, 469 00:27:45,755 --> 00:27:48,355 Speaker 1: so he gets fired. The show that replaced me lasted 470 00:27:48,515 --> 00:27:52,555 Speaker 1: three months. Then they put on two half hour shows, 471 00:27:52,675 --> 00:27:57,035 Speaker 1: Equal Time with Oliver North premiering in February of nineteen 472 00:27:57,115 --> 00:28:01,275 Speaker 1: ninety nine and the McLaughlin Special Report John McLoughlin from 473 00:28:01,275 --> 00:28:04,595 Speaker 1: the McLoughlin Report, wrong that guy. They did two half 474 00:28:04,795 --> 00:28:09,315 Speaker 1: hours that lasted a month. They decided Oliver North needed 475 00:28:09,315 --> 00:28:11,795 Speaker 1: half an hour, but he needed a rotating set of 476 00:28:11,835 --> 00:28:15,035 Speaker 1: co hosts. Now, I want to clear this up. None 477 00:28:15,075 --> 00:28:17,835 Speaker 1: of the co hosts sat there and rotated. They had 478 00:28:17,915 --> 00:28:20,795 Speaker 1: different hosts. They were on a rotational basis. I think 479 00:28:20,875 --> 00:28:23,315 Speaker 1: in retrospect they regret this that it should have been 480 00:28:23,435 --> 00:28:27,315 Speaker 1: Oliver North with a co host who rotated. The co 481 00:28:27,395 --> 00:28:32,475 Speaker 1: hosts included Cynthia Axney, Peter Fenn and Keky Moore. I 482 00:28:32,515 --> 00:28:35,395 Speaker 1: can picture two of these three people. And at eight 483 00:28:35,475 --> 00:28:38,995 Speaker 1: thirty they replaced Special Report from McLaughlin that was canceled 484 00:28:39,075 --> 00:28:42,035 Speaker 1: and they brought in Time and Again, which was reruns 485 00:28:42,755 --> 00:28:48,915 Speaker 1: of old NBC news features in April of nineteen ninety nine, 486 00:28:48,955 --> 00:28:51,795 Speaker 1: so a month later it became a permanent hour long 487 00:28:51,835 --> 00:28:54,675 Speaker 1: show with Oliver North and Paul Begala as co hosts. 488 00:28:55,995 --> 00:28:58,795 Speaker 1: May thirtieth of nineteen ninety nine, so six weeks later 489 00:28:58,995 --> 00:29:01,475 Speaker 1: it became North and Begala shortened to half an hour, 490 00:29:02,155 --> 00:29:04,275 Speaker 1: and time and again came back. So it was time 491 00:29:04,315 --> 00:29:07,435 Speaker 1: and again, and it's time and again. Another month later, 492 00:29:07,955 --> 00:29:10,715 Speaker 1: in June nineteen ninety nine, they replaced the whole thing 493 00:29:11,315 --> 00:29:16,115 Speaker 1: Oliver North out special Edition with Ann Curry in filmed 494 00:29:16,275 --> 00:29:21,115 Speaker 1: recuts of Ann Curry pieces from Dateline and other shows. Now, 495 00:29:21,115 --> 00:29:23,075 Speaker 1: I love Ann Curry. I worked with her in Los Angeles. 496 00:29:23,155 --> 00:29:26,155 Speaker 1: A great person, a wonderful human being to my mind. 497 00:29:26,675 --> 00:29:29,115 Speaker 1: And again at eight thirty, time and again. Then they 498 00:29:29,235 --> 00:29:34,035 Speaker 1: expanded in about a month. In July of nineteen ninety nine, 499 00:29:34,075 --> 00:29:36,675 Speaker 1: the Special Edition with Ann Curry went to an hour. 500 00:29:37,035 --> 00:29:39,355 Speaker 1: Then Ann Curry left the program in May of two 501 00:29:39,355 --> 00:29:41,515 Speaker 1: thousand and they made it special Edition with Louri dou 502 00:29:42,475 --> 00:29:45,715 Speaker 1: Then in August, so now what three months later it 503 00:29:45,755 --> 00:29:50,635 Speaker 1: became MSNBC Investigates and the Joke, WASSC and NBC Investigates, 504 00:29:50,715 --> 00:29:55,995 Speaker 1: What happened to Lori dew On September twenty eighth, two thousand, 505 00:29:56,115 --> 00:30:00,395 Speaker 1: they made MSNBC Investigates a four day a week show, 506 00:30:00,435 --> 00:30:03,235 Speaker 1: so Monday through Thursday it was MSNBC Investigates again. This 507 00:30:03,315 --> 00:30:05,995 Speaker 1: is all the eight o'clock out after I left, We're 508 00:30:05,995 --> 00:30:11,315 Speaker 1: on Show twelve so far year two, Show twelve in 509 00:30:11,355 --> 00:30:15,635 Speaker 1: the eight o'clock slot MSNBC Investigates. But on Friday it 510 00:30:15,715 --> 00:30:18,595 Speaker 1: wasn't MSNBC Investigates. It was a weekly show called Missing 511 00:30:18,675 --> 00:30:25,475 Speaker 1: Persons with Diane Diamond. Soon it was Missing Missing Persons 512 00:30:25,515 --> 00:30:29,515 Speaker 1: with Diane Diamond. It was canceled after one month, so 513 00:30:29,675 --> 00:30:32,555 Speaker 1: they go back to an hour of MSNBC Investigates, a 514 00:30:32,595 --> 00:30:36,235 Speaker 1: pre tape show every night in October two thousand. Then 515 00:30:36,595 --> 00:30:41,075 Speaker 1: as the election approached, it became News Force with Forests Sawyer. 516 00:30:41,595 --> 00:30:46,675 Speaker 1: News Force. I don't want to know who thought Force 517 00:30:47,275 --> 00:30:50,155 Speaker 1: was a good name to put in a newscast. So 518 00:30:50,235 --> 00:30:53,595 Speaker 1: that evolved into Decision two thousand in December because there 519 00:30:53,635 --> 00:30:56,875 Speaker 1: was no decision in the election, and it became Decision 520 00:30:56,915 --> 00:31:00,035 Speaker 1: two thousand with Forest Sawyer. And when they finally to 521 00:31:00,195 --> 00:31:05,275 Speaker 1: MSNBC's great regret resolved the Gore Bush election. In January 522 00:31:05,355 --> 00:31:08,835 Speaker 1: two thousand and one, it became MSNBC Investigates again till July, 523 00:31:09,595 --> 00:31:11,955 Speaker 1: and in July two thousand and one they solved the 524 00:31:11,955 --> 00:31:15,675 Speaker 1: crisis of what to do at eight o'clock, only two 525 00:31:15,675 --> 00:31:19,035 Speaker 1: and a half years after I had left the news 526 00:31:19,075 --> 00:31:24,435 Speaker 1: with Brian Williams at eight o'clock for nearly fourteen months, 527 00:31:25,155 --> 00:31:27,235 Speaker 1: and then he said I don't want anything to do 528 00:31:27,315 --> 00:31:31,595 Speaker 1: with MSNBC ever again. In September two thousand and two, 529 00:31:31,755 --> 00:31:34,395 Speaker 1: at eight o'clock they premiered The Phil Donahue Show, which 530 00:31:34,475 --> 00:31:37,835 Speaker 1: lasted until February two thousand and three because the show 531 00:31:37,915 --> 00:31:41,755 Speaker 1: cost more money than they could possibly make in advertising, 532 00:31:42,515 --> 00:31:45,995 Speaker 1: and they replaced it with Countdown Iraq with Lester Holt 533 00:31:46,835 --> 00:31:51,715 Speaker 1: and segments with Pat Buchanan and Bill Press. In the 534 00:31:51,715 --> 00:31:55,315 Speaker 1: middle of a show Getting America Ready for War at 535 00:31:55,355 --> 00:31:58,675 Speaker 1: eight o'clock, MSNBC had Countdown Iraq with lester Holt and 536 00:31:58,835 --> 00:32:02,955 Speaker 1: Buchanan and Press, and then they had to move lester 537 00:32:03,075 --> 00:32:09,235 Speaker 1: Holt to the network and so Operation Iraqi Freedom with 538 00:32:09,995 --> 00:32:16,475 Speaker 1: Keith Olberman. Soon that was not enough. The news from 539 00:32:16,515 --> 00:32:18,955 Speaker 1: Iraq was no longer interesting, and we made it Countdown 540 00:32:19,035 --> 00:32:22,635 Speaker 1: with Keith Olberman March thirty first, two thousand and three. 541 00:32:23,275 --> 00:32:28,875 Speaker 1: So that was twenty shows me twenty new shows in 542 00:32:29,035 --> 00:32:33,155 Speaker 1: four years, and then me again because you can't have this. 543 00:32:35,355 --> 00:32:37,915 Speaker 1: And then after I left in twenty eleven, it was 544 00:32:37,955 --> 00:32:43,035 Speaker 1: the last word with Lawrence O'Donnell for a while, like 545 00:32:45,195 --> 00:32:48,475 Speaker 1: nine months. Then they put ed Schultz on instead. Then 546 00:32:48,475 --> 00:32:56,555 Speaker 1: they put in Chris Hayes in twenty thirteen. The idea 547 00:32:56,635 --> 00:32:59,555 Speaker 1: here is to return finally to the subject of Joyread. 548 00:33:00,555 --> 00:33:03,755 Speaker 1: You put people on TV who you, the executives can 549 00:33:03,835 --> 00:33:08,395 Speaker 1: control when the chips are down, when the company is 550 00:33:08,435 --> 00:33:11,755 Speaker 1: in trouble, when the boss goes to the anchor and says, 551 00:33:12,075 --> 00:33:18,395 Speaker 1: don't say this, they say, don't say what, and then 552 00:33:18,435 --> 00:33:22,675 Speaker 1: they don't say anything. When the company is in trouble, 553 00:33:23,475 --> 00:33:27,035 Speaker 1: when a dollar might not be earned, you won't hear 554 00:33:27,075 --> 00:33:31,355 Speaker 1: crap out of Maadow or O'Donnell or Hayes or Sanders 555 00:33:31,635 --> 00:33:36,395 Speaker 1: or Steel or Menendez or Jensaki. My version of this, 556 00:33:37,395 --> 00:33:42,195 Speaker 1: and it might have been stylistically philosophically it might have 557 00:33:42,235 --> 00:33:45,795 Speaker 1: been the only thing I shared with joy Read was 558 00:33:45,835 --> 00:33:48,075 Speaker 1: that when the chips were down in this circumstance and 559 00:33:48,115 --> 00:33:50,115 Speaker 1: a dollar was at risk, I felt it was my 560 00:33:50,355 --> 00:33:55,835 Speaker 1: job to say what they did not want me to say. 561 00:33:55,995 --> 00:33:59,995 Speaker 1: Not always, there are sometimes management is right. But if 562 00:33:59,995 --> 00:34:02,875 Speaker 1: they don't want you to touch a controversial topic, grab 563 00:34:02,915 --> 00:34:07,595 Speaker 1: it with both hands. That's your job. If not, if 564 00:34:07,635 --> 00:34:09,835 Speaker 1: you're not willing to do that, you can be replaced. 565 00:34:11,235 --> 00:34:19,075 Speaker 1: You can be replaced by missing persons with Diane Diamond. 566 00:34:19,155 --> 00:34:21,235 Speaker 1: Nothing against Diana used to work with her in radio 567 00:34:21,315 --> 00:34:28,715 Speaker 1: Lovely Woman. You could be replaced by news force. News force, 568 00:34:28,795 --> 00:34:33,595 Speaker 1: we break down your door and drag you away. It 569 00:34:33,755 --> 00:34:36,955 Speaker 1: is your job as a political commentator to get yourself 570 00:34:36,995 --> 00:34:43,035 Speaker 1: into trouble whenever possible, now, whenever necessary. I did that. 571 00:34:43,955 --> 00:34:46,275 Speaker 1: Joy Reid did that. I'm sure she looked at my 572 00:34:46,395 --> 00:34:48,915 Speaker 1: times in trouble and went, what are you doing that for? 573 00:34:50,195 --> 00:34:52,115 Speaker 1: And I know I've looked at her in some occasions 574 00:34:52,155 --> 00:34:55,275 Speaker 1: and gone, what are you doing that for? Doesn't matter. 575 00:34:58,395 --> 00:35:00,075 Speaker 1: The other thing you're supposed to do is you are 576 00:35:00,115 --> 00:35:04,035 Speaker 1: supposed to spend your political capital, your small p political capital, 577 00:35:04,075 --> 00:35:09,035 Speaker 1: your business capital inside your own operation, defending your colleagues, 578 00:35:09,315 --> 00:35:11,835 Speaker 1: or becoming a pain in the ass to management, develop 579 00:35:11,875 --> 00:35:15,995 Speaker 1: a reputation with management, to get people they didn't want 580 00:35:16,075 --> 00:35:19,235 Speaker 1: hired hired or to get people they didn't want on 581 00:35:19,275 --> 00:35:23,675 Speaker 1: the air on the air. Madam is a perfect example 582 00:35:23,675 --> 00:35:25,555 Speaker 1: of that. I'm not going to belabor that point, but 583 00:35:25,635 --> 00:35:28,315 Speaker 1: Joy Reid did that with a dozen people, and they 584 00:35:28,675 --> 00:35:30,875 Speaker 1: might as well have been all of them might as 585 00:35:30,875 --> 00:35:33,395 Speaker 1: well have been Huey Newton from the eyes of MSNBC 586 00:35:33,555 --> 00:35:35,355 Speaker 1: management from the day they put her on the air 587 00:35:36,435 --> 00:35:39,515 Speaker 1: on the weekends to the day they put her on 588 00:35:39,555 --> 00:35:43,155 Speaker 1: at eight o'clock with the current executives who just sold 589 00:35:43,155 --> 00:35:46,235 Speaker 1: the thing off so they could distance themselves from anything 590 00:35:47,715 --> 00:35:53,875 Speaker 1: good in television news. Again, I will be delighted to 591 00:35:53,955 --> 00:35:58,115 Speaker 1: come out here and apologize profusely and for an hour, 592 00:35:58,515 --> 00:36:01,235 Speaker 1: and this has been half an hour. Here, I will 593 00:36:01,275 --> 00:36:05,155 Speaker 1: profusely apologize to anybody at MSNBC who stands up in 594 00:36:05,195 --> 00:36:08,755 Speaker 1: defensive Joy Reid and says this stinks, this makes us white. 595 00:36:09,075 --> 00:36:12,915 Speaker 1: This is contributing to the entirety of the Trump racism 596 00:36:12,995 --> 00:36:16,155 Speaker 1: enveloping this country, and it is part of a stampede 597 00:36:16,235 --> 00:36:20,195 Speaker 1: to see which formerly liberal company can get to the 598 00:36:20,235 --> 00:36:25,275 Speaker 1: head of the racism line, the approved racism line, as 599 00:36:25,355 --> 00:36:28,435 Speaker 1: fast as possible. And Joy Read getting removed from the 600 00:36:28,475 --> 00:36:34,155 Speaker 1: primetime lineup of MSNBC is MSNBC's biggest contribution yet, although 601 00:36:34,235 --> 00:36:40,755 Speaker 1: Scarborough could top it at any moment, but honestly, what 602 00:36:40,795 --> 00:36:45,195 Speaker 1: do you expect to hear about Joy? Read from the 603 00:36:45,235 --> 00:36:51,435 Speaker 1: other people who count at MSNBC you want to hear 604 00:36:51,435 --> 00:37:00,755 Speaker 1: it again. Countdown with Keith Olderman is a production of iHeartRadio. 605 00:37:01,035 --> 00:37:06,355 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 606 00:37:06,475 --> 00:37:08,435 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.