1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to Worst Year Ever, a production of I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:21,440 Speaker 1: Well Together, Everything So down? Don Um. Can we get 3 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 1: you to introduce yourself first? Yeah, UM, my name is 4 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: Ali khan Um. I live in Toronto in a neighborhood 5 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: called Parkdale. UM. I'm a community organizer or I do 6 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: a lot of work with tenants and eviction prevention. Um. 7 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: I'm also a musician, played the piano and the drums 8 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: and the guitar and playing a couple of musical groups 9 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: which are currently on hold unfortunately. I kind of wonder 10 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: if you'll just sort of walk us through the story 11 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: of how you your your your fellow uh le c's. 12 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 1: I don't Yeah, I don't know what term to use, 13 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 1: but how how y'all kind of got together and and 14 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 1: and set this thing up? Like right right now we're 15 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 1: seeing all these kind of distributed rent strikes and I 16 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: guess i'd like h y'all story for that. Yeah. No, 17 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: I appreciate the opportunity to talk about UM. Uh So, 18 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: just I guess off the top, I should probably press 19 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:31,399 Speaker 1: preface that I'm certainly no expert on on this. I mean, 20 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: I have some experience, but I don't purport to know 21 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: like the best practices that everyone should follow. I mean, 22 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: I'm learning as I go, just like anyone else. UM. 23 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 1: And these are very unprecedented times, so a lot of 24 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: that are used to this work have also had to 25 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: do a lot of relearning and adjusting our our protocols 26 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: and stuff to really meet the needs. UM. So yeah, 27 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: I guess I could start from yeah, realizing the situation 28 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: we were in. UM, things kind of clicked for me. 29 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: UM as this was getting to I guess are part 30 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: are part of the world, And as more people were 31 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: getting infected here um and across Turtle Island, UM, it 32 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: started really dawning on me the amount of people, UM 33 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: that would not be able to pay their rent because 34 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: of all the businesses that were closing and the orders 35 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 1: that we're coming from above UM closing all non essential 36 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:41,959 Speaker 1: services UM. And uh yeah, people just not wanting to 37 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 1: leave their homes and conduct regular activities. So I just figured, 38 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 1: you know, this was going to lead to a massive 39 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: crisis down the road of people having defaulted on their 40 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 1: rent during this time and then facing eviction in large numbers. UM. 41 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: And so my community specifically and Hearkdale is it has 42 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 1: a large volume of of newcomers and low low income folks. 43 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: It's very diverse community, UM, and a lot of people 44 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: here have high needs. UM. It's a very working class neighborhood. UM. 45 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: A lot of racialized people from different communities. We have 46 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: a very large Tibetan community. In fact, I think it's 47 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: the largest in North America. UM. But yeah, so we're particular, 48 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 1: particularly vulnerable to this issue. So I'm sorry if I'm 49 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: rambling on or whatever, but I just kind of that's 50 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: kind of where I was starting at. UM. I was 51 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: trying to think, you know, how can we mitigate this 52 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: thing that's coming down the line inevitably. So I decided 53 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: that I had to talk to my neighbors UM in 54 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: my building. But I had to figure out a safe 55 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: way to do it, obviously, because we can't do flyering 56 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: like we we usually do, or we flyer the buildings 57 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: and organized lobby meetings and and have like these interactive 58 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: look like processes to get people engaged. UM. So right, 59 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: because you're worried about actually spreading the virus, so you 60 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: can't yeah yeah, yeah, So there's some there's some information 61 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:19,279 Speaker 1: out there that the virus can live on paper for 62 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: a certain amount of time, and so to play it safe. 63 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:26,159 Speaker 1: Like myself and many of the organizers that around our community, 64 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 1: we've kind of decided to avoid flying when it all possible. 65 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 1: I mean, like we still are doing a lot of postering, 66 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 1: which is a very integral part of this to make 67 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 1: it work, but none of this kind of uh these 68 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: smaller flyers that are meant to be distributed and kind 69 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,600 Speaker 1: of go from hand to hand kind of thing. So 70 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: um so yeah, I um realized that that was the barrier. 71 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: So I got ahold of some protective or some ppe 72 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 1: like face mask and like gloves and stuff like this, 73 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: and uh, I went onto my lobby area, which I mean, 74 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 1: it's different, It's going to be different for everybody I 75 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,919 Speaker 1: think that's interested in doing something similar. But my lobby 76 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,359 Speaker 1: is fairly sizeable, so like there was enough room for 77 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: me to both catch people on the way in and 78 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: out of the building, but also keep my distance so 79 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:22,159 Speaker 1: that no one is no one is compromised. Um. Other 80 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: people might have different layouts for their common spaces, so 81 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 1: they could use maybe like the area outside the building 82 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 1: near the front door to catch people on the way 83 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: in and out where there's more room to keep your 84 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: safe distance and stuff like that. But um, Yeah, that's 85 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: very key obviously, and I was very conscious of of that. 86 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:43,919 Speaker 1: Um And so yeah, just camp being out in the 87 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 1: lobby for for like hours a day, just trying to 88 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 1: get some contact with my neighbors. Um. And so as 89 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: people are coming and going, what I what I was 90 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,359 Speaker 1: doing is I would introduce myself right away as some 91 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: was one of their number neighbors that lives in the 92 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 1: same building, I'd give my unit number. I mean, a 93 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: lot of my neighbors already recognize me from previous things 94 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 1: that we've done in our building and and uh and that, 95 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: and we've kept ties and stuff. But I also have 96 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: a lot of new neighbors that I haven't met yet 97 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 1: until this this spout of organizing. So it's important to 98 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 1: kind of break that barrier right away, UM, so that 99 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 1: they're not suspicious that you're kind of trying to to 100 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 1: something nefarious or whatever. Um. And so once you've broken 101 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 1: that barrier, I just kind of made that pitch. Do 102 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 1: you think a lot of people suspect? Like did you 103 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: did you feel that sort of suspicion from folks when 104 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: you started approaching people in a lot of cases, See, 105 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm I'm also involved in UM a few 106 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 1: different mutual aid efforts in the community that are aside 107 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: from this and kind of overlap with this as well. UM. 108 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: And so over the phone, I feel like what I've 109 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: been hearing is a lot of people have been receiving 110 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 1: questionable phone calls from UM, like scam artists. There's a 111 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: lot of weird things going around right now. UM. So 112 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: even when you're calling to offer help and support and stuff, 113 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: it takes a little while to kind of really develop 114 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 1: that trust. UM too. You have to be very clear 115 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: about who you are, who you work for, UM, what 116 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: you're offering, the fact that it's free, you know, UM, 117 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. UM. But in terms of organizing 118 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: my building, I think the hesitation is just it's it's 119 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: not like a common thing where there's someone sitting in 120 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: your lobby trying to catch you on the way and 121 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: now trying to organize the rent strike, so that I 122 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: think they're just kind of taken aback by someone stopping 123 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: them as there about their daily activities type of thing. UM. 124 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 1: But like I said, like I mean, I've kept close 125 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: contact with with many of my neighbors, so UM, a 126 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: lot of them did recognize me and the ones that 127 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: didn't recognize me right way. UM, I kind of put 128 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: their mind at ease by saying, like, listen, you know, UM, 129 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: I'm your neighbor. I live on Explorer and ex Unit, 130 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: and I'm just trying to organize our building to to 131 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: fight back against it. So ining situation, um that our 132 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: landlords putting us in. So yeah, um yeah, so you 133 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: give your pitch you ask. I was asking my neighbors 134 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: how they feel about the situation, UM, what their experiences 135 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: are like, are they having trouble are they going to 136 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: have trouble paying April's rent? Um? If so, like what 137 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:45,199 Speaker 1: what what have they thought of? Two that? What were 138 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: you getting from people in terms of like their actual 139 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: level of fear over April and their ability to kind 140 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: of make ship mate you know? Yeah, so a lot 141 00:08:55,520 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: of it. I mean I had some pretty good conversations. Um. 142 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: The The issue is is uh that I was finding 143 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: um is the conversations that were more kind of UM, 144 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: I don't want to say fulsome but like, uh, I 145 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 1: guess more lengthy and engaged. UM we're coming from and 146 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: I'm generalizing here, uh, tenants that UM, we're kind of 147 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 1: looking at this as kind of a possibility to to 148 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: take a principle stand and while they may be struggling financially, um, 149 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,199 Speaker 1: to some extent, they would be able to kind of 150 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: weather this storm at least for for the the short term. UM. 151 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: And I found that a lot of the tenants I 152 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: spoke to where the conversations weren't as long and weren't 153 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: um uh like, we're kind of more um from tenants 154 00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: that may have had language barriers UM and are speaking 155 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: English as a second language. UM. So it was more 156 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: kind of me trying to really simplify what I was 157 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: trying to say and make them understand, um, what we're 158 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 1: trying to organize here, so that I'm sure that we're 159 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 1: on the same page. And the responses I got from them, UM, 160 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: we're essentially like a confirmation that yes, people are in 161 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: fact suffering. Many of the people that weren't UM able 162 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: to express themselves as fluently made it still made it 163 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: very clear that they were in a position, a very 164 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: vulnerable position where they weren't going to be able to 165 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: pay rent next month. So UM. It's it's tricky when 166 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 1: you're because the point I'm essentially trying to make is 167 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:50,319 Speaker 1: oftentimes the most vulnerable people are less able, the least 168 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 1: able to engage with the process of organizing because they've 169 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: got so you know, it's tough to find that balance 170 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: between trying to get them to engage and keeping them 171 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,079 Speaker 1: in the loop and uh and getting consent from them 172 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: to do things, um, but also respecting their space and 173 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: understanding that they have, um, they have other pressing matters 174 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:15,559 Speaker 1: in a completely different situation than you do. Right, So 175 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:17,719 Speaker 1: I don't know, UM, I don't know if that kind 176 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: of answers yea question a little bit. Essentially, what I'm 177 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 1: saying is like a lot of people are struggled. I 178 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: think everyone is struggling. UM, but my my building particularly 179 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: just because of the speed at which our area is 180 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: being gentrified, my building particularly and a lot of other 181 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: buildings in heart Tale are very stratified. So you have 182 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: people that have just come in recently that are paying 183 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 1: three times the amount of rent as someone that's been 184 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: here for you know, ten fifteen years, um, and they 185 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: have identical units. So you you get a number of 186 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: your your fellow uh, your neighbors to agree that, like, 187 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: this is not an acceptable situation. We we we want 188 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: to change this, and uh, like what are those what 189 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: are those first meetings like for for y'all as you like, 190 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,559 Speaker 1: especially since you can't like be sort of all together 191 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: in the same space, like how are you how are 192 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: you kind of bridging that gap? Um, because there's like 193 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 1: a lot of it's kind of a risky thing to do, 194 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 1: because if you wind up, you know, on your own 195 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 1: without actually having the support of your neighbors, you could 196 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: just wind up getting kicked out of your place. Like 197 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: I feel like there's a level of risk here, um, 198 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 1: And it's it's got to be kind of a difficult 199 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: thing to to get everyone on the same page when 200 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 1: you can't physically be in the same space. Yeah, of course, Um, 201 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: I agree, there's a lot of risks here and they 202 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:48,079 Speaker 1: need to be considered responsibly. Um. So, like I said, 203 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: there's there there are people coming from very different places 204 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: in my building specifically, and so part of making sure 205 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 1: everyone's protected is to bring them all into this same 206 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,679 Speaker 1: calm versation. Um. So, what I was trying to make 207 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: clear in these initial conversations in the lobby is that 208 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:10,079 Speaker 1: we're organizing we're organizing this rent direct not only out 209 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:14,479 Speaker 1: of necessity, but also out of solidarity with those who 210 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,679 Speaker 1: who will not be able to pay rent. UM. So 211 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:23,479 Speaker 1: whether you cannot pay rent or whether you can pay rent. UM, 212 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: If you can pay rent, it's still important to withhold 213 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: your rent voluntarily UM in support of those that don't 214 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: have that choice. UM. So kind of once everyone's on 215 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 1: the same page of like you know, somewhere in between 216 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: those two things, like they're there thinking, Okay, well, maybe 217 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: I shouldn't be paying my rent because I need to 218 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: keep an emergency reserve just in case something comes up 219 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: or whatever. UM, and people that just literally don't have 220 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: the money to pay rent. UM, as everyone's on the 221 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: same page that regardless of your situation, we need to 222 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: all together make this principle decision. So once you've made 223 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 1: that pitch in the lobby and you kind of got 224 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: them thinking on it, thinking about it, you make it 225 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: clear that they don't need to make a decision, that 226 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: you're just trying to include them in a conversation UM, 227 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: and that UM, what you're trying to do is collect 228 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: people's contact information so that the building can carry on 229 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: this conversation safely online and over the phone. UM. So 230 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: that was essentially the goal of these lobby lobby contacts 231 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: or first discussions is to get get a database of contacts. 232 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: For me, I was just updating my my list that 233 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: I had from from previous organizing. UM. But yeah, I 234 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: got a lot of a lot of new contacts and 235 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: then you bring it online. So we started like an 236 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: email discussion group. UM. And UM what what I did 237 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: after getting getting everyone's contact together on a spreadsheet is UH, 238 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: my partner and I we drafted up a letter to 239 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: the landlord based on the conversations we had on the 240 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: lobby and where people were at UM. And UH we 241 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: sent it out to the group that we had compiled. UM. 242 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: So it's like just like a draft UM. And then 243 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: we encouraged feedback and he changes things that people might 244 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: feel uncomfortable with. If people are uncomfortable with the tone, 245 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: or the demands or or anything about the letter, then 246 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: they give feedback over a period of time. UM. So 247 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: this first email you you you attached the draft of 248 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: the letter. There's also some other things you can do 249 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: UM to kind of get people on board, which is 250 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: to assure them that you know, um that the legal 251 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: rights of tenants as they pertained to this situation. UM. 252 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: You can go over some of the things UM that 253 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: they can expect from the landlord, UM, such as well, 254 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: I live in Ontario, So what we do here are 255 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: what landlords do here when a tendant doesn't pay rent 256 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: is they issue something called an end for notice, which 257 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: is a notice of non payment. So in your email 258 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 1: to your group of tenants, you can develop trust with 259 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: them by showing that you've done your homework and say, hey, 260 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: this is what to expect from the landlord going forward. 261 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: These are your legal rights, These are the connections we 262 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: have to legal representation. Like in Parkdale we have the 263 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: Parkdale Community Community Legal Services that has done a great 264 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: job informing tenants in our community about our legal rights 265 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: and even defending us at the landlord tenport. I think 266 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: that's that's a very important thing to have, UM. And 267 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: so yeah, so you send an email out, UM, try 268 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: and be as encouraging as and positive as possible, while 269 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: at the same time being very clear about the risks. 270 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: So in our case, we're demanding that all rent be 271 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:03,479 Speaker 1: waived for the period of social distancing our landlord. However, UM, 272 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: we need we may not succeed in in achieving that demand, 273 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: so we it's important that we're very clear from the 274 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 1: start that if you withhold your rent during this time. 275 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 1: We're not guaranteeing that you'll never have to repaid in 276 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: the future. The point of us doing this action is 277 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: to make sure that that doesn't happen, and to do 278 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: everything we can to make sure that people don't owe 279 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 1: this rent um in arrears over a long period of time, 280 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:33,920 Speaker 1: because that's essentially like death sentence, yeah, sending people Yeah yeah. 281 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: Folks who are living on the margins can't afford having 282 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 1: rent a crew without actually making money exactly. People aren't 283 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: going to be getting back paid for this period in 284 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: their employment, and they're all these like I mean, a 285 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: lot of people are saying that those who have been 286 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 1: receiving social assistance before this crisis shouldn't even be considering 287 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: any tenant actions because they've already have they already have 288 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:02,399 Speaker 1: all their things paid for, so they're any employment wouldn't 289 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: be affected or whatever. But that's simply not the case. 290 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 1: There's I have a few neighbors that have made the 291 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 1: decision to stop payment um and and reasonably so, because 292 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: there's a lot of expenses that come up um for 293 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: for all all types of people in all different situations, 294 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: like when you close the schools, you have certain childcare 295 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:25,959 Speaker 1: and food expenses that were covered by certain programs that 296 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,640 Speaker 1: you may have to pay out a pocket now, like 297 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:33,400 Speaker 1: all these all these hidden expenses, right, So just supplementing 298 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: the income that people would have been making during this 299 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 1: time is often not enough for people because they're spending 300 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:44,439 Speaker 1: more than they would have even if they were working. Um. 301 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: So yeah, um, so you go, you go over the 302 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,120 Speaker 1: risks and you say, yeah, you know, Um, these are 303 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: the risks. However, Um, we're building, We're building a critical 304 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 1: mass in our buildings so that we can all look 305 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: out for each other and we can all protect each other. 306 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:03,959 Speaker 1: And did you find a lot of people, Uh did 307 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: you have difficulty convincing people to sort of live with 308 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: those risks? You know, where their folks who are like, 309 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,640 Speaker 1: well then if I might get screwed over, I don't 310 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 1: want to I don't want to get involved with this. 311 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: Like was it hard to kind of get people to 312 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,919 Speaker 1: take a little bit of a gamble on their neighbors? Um? 313 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:26,160 Speaker 1: Well yeah, some people, I mean some of my neighbors 314 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:32,879 Speaker 1: were um actually straight up like a bit antagonistic at first. 315 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 1: Um uh And and didn't really kind of because I 316 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 1: guess different stokes for different folks, right, Like you you 317 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: you you present a rent strike and right away it's like, oh, 318 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: this is a lawbreaker that's trying to pull me in 319 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: and just agitate and this kind of thing or whatever. 320 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 1: But then you know they come back after doing their 321 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 1: days activities and they see you still sitting there, you know, 322 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 1: four or five hours later, and you know, sometimes they'll 323 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: they'll realize, Okay, well you know this guy is whatever, 324 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,360 Speaker 1: like he just wants to have a conversation. And then 325 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: you started that the person might start up a conversation 326 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 1: with you. So it's like you kind of there are 327 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: different things you can do or whatever, but persist. Like, 328 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: if you're persistent, I think your neighbors eventually see that 329 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:23,640 Speaker 1: you're not trying to trick them into doing anything. You're 330 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:28,119 Speaker 1: not trying to put them in a in a precarious position. Um. 331 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: You know, as long as you're acting in good faith, 332 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,160 Speaker 1: I think that your neighbors eventually see that. It's it's 333 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 1: so important to keep the lines of communication open. I'm 334 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: not used to bombarding people with emails and stuff, right 335 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: like my my organizing, I'm used to talking to people 336 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: face to face and developing a rapport with them. Um, 337 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:47,920 Speaker 1: so yeah, it is tricky to send out a mass 338 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 1: email saying, you know, like hello neighbors, blah blah blah 339 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 1: blah blah. But yeah, UM, I think over time, more 340 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: and more people start responding to you and you if 341 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: you collect did people's phone numbers as well, you can 342 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,880 Speaker 1: do rounds of phone calls to those who don't respond 343 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:09,159 Speaker 1: to you, UM, because oftentimes people don't feel comfortable UM 344 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: typing out the response. What we were doing is but 345 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: the phone calls, we'd ask them if if they're comfortable 346 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,439 Speaker 1: with us c seeing them or they prefer to remain 347 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: BC seed UM and trying to encourage people to kind 348 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: of open up their email address so that when they respond, 349 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: their responding to a group, and as that group gets bigger, 350 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,400 Speaker 1: it becomes more of a democratic process as opposed to 351 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,360 Speaker 1: kind of me just saying last this is the update, folks, 352 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Yeah, So, I think that's 353 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: kind of the key thing is UM trying to trying 354 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 1: to involve people as much as possible, even though because 355 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 1: people are isolated in their homes and stuff, and they're 356 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,919 Speaker 1: feeling closed off and whatnot, and even if it's just 357 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 1: a quick phone call to chat about something unrelated, like 358 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,120 Speaker 1: I think it goes a long way during it kind 359 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: of builds a sense of solidarity. Um, do you want 360 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 1: to tell us about the reaction you all got when 361 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 1: you presented your demands? What happened was, Um, so we 362 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,400 Speaker 1: had been kind of organizing a little bit, and then 363 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 1: there have been murmurs about rent strikes and stuff like this, 364 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 1: and a lot of landlords they preemptively sent communications to 365 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:29,439 Speaker 1: their tenants, um because they saw this kind of coming. 366 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,360 Speaker 1: And so before we even delivered the letter to our landlord, 367 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: we got we got a letter from them kind of 368 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 1: detailing what they what they're proposed help was and like 369 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: quote unquote help and so and what was what was 370 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 1: it what they had done um is uh, they used 371 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,200 Speaker 1: the word so they said, they said that they were 372 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 1: freezing the rent um and then in that same point, 373 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 1: in that same sentence, they explained that what they meant 374 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: by freezing was that the rent would stay at the 375 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,360 Speaker 1: amount that was that the tenant paid in March. Um. 376 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 1: So April's renting could stay at the amount that Okay, yeah, 377 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: so you know, yeah, so they're trying to be cute. Yeah, 378 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,120 Speaker 1: and and but I mean, obviously, like I don't think 379 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 1: they really thought it through. UM. But yeah, they were 380 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,360 Speaker 1: trying to make it seem like they were offering more 381 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,919 Speaker 1: help than uh than what they were actually what they 382 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,439 Speaker 1: were actually doing is committing to not increase the rent 383 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 1: for for the time being. UM. And in Ontario. I 384 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: don't know what the laws are elsewhere, but you can 385 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: only increase the rent in rent controlled units once a year, 386 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: and even then you can only increase it by the 387 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: guideline amount, which is like the rate of inflation, and 388 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: that hovers around like two every year. And if you 389 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: want to increase it higher than whatever the guideline is 390 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,360 Speaker 1: for that year, you have to apply for what's called 391 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 1: an above guideline increase. So what they were essentially offering 392 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 1: is for those people whose anniversary it was on April 393 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: one or whatever, that we're due to get a rent increase. UM, 394 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: they would not get there whatever two point I think 395 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: it's two point two increase this year, but only for 396 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,160 Speaker 1: those people. So it's like they're all offering this all 397 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 1: three amount and only for this select group of tenants 398 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 1: that happened to fall in this period, and they're passing 399 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,959 Speaker 1: it off as a rent freeze, and they're using that language. UM. 400 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,479 Speaker 1: So needless to say, tenants from not only my building 401 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: but other buildings under the same um landlord approached me 402 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: over the next few days or week or whatever, thinking 403 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: that they didn't owe rent for April. And if I 404 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: approached people saying that, you know, we're trying to organize 405 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 1: a rent strike, what do you think. There's a lot 406 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,239 Speaker 1: of people and unfortunately a lot of people who um 407 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 1: may speak English second language or have language barriers. They 408 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: were the ones that were coming to me and saying, 409 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: what do you mean a rents direct? They're not charging 410 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:11,920 Speaker 1: rent for April, so UM, it was tricky to both 411 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: explain to them that know, the rent is still due, 412 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 1: but we're also organizing to withhold rent. Do you think 413 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 1: that your landlord kind of going that route trying to 414 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: sneakily use the term rent freeze like helped in the end, 415 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: Like because did it get people like already expecting, Okay, 416 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:30,719 Speaker 1: I don't have to pay rent and then when they 417 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: realized they did, they were kind of already on board 418 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,719 Speaker 1: with with striking because that's what they'd gotten. Or did 419 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 1: you Yeah, I'm wondering if you noticed that. Okay, So 420 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: my landlord, they they own a lot of buildings across 421 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: the country and in Toronto and even in Parkdale. So 422 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,439 Speaker 1: I think they owned almost twenty buildings or something like 423 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 1: that in Parkdale or run them or both. Right, Um, 424 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: they're a massive company. So like there's a there is 425 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: Like from my perspect or, if I were, you know, 426 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,640 Speaker 1: just spitball spitballing or whatever, I would say that there's 427 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,680 Speaker 1: a good chunk or a good percentage of their tenants 428 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,239 Speaker 1: that obviously I wasn't able to reach out to that 429 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 1: just didn't pay their rent because they didn't think that 430 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 1: it was old because of the weird language of the 431 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 1: letter that Metcap sent out or the landlord. Um. But 432 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,199 Speaker 1: those that I did reach um when I explained to 433 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: them what was actually being offered, and this wasn't the 434 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 1: only thing that was being offered. There was another point 435 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: underneath it that was like, oh, well, if you choose 436 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 1: to pay online, we're going to waive the fee, the 437 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 1: seven dollar filing fee that we usually charge for online 438 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,199 Speaker 1: payments of rent. And that was their next line of 439 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: help type of thing. So it's kind of like, okay, 440 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:51,120 Speaker 1: thanks for not charging me to pay you rent. Um um. 441 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,919 Speaker 1: So that was another thing. So once I broke that 442 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 1: down for the people that did approach me and the 443 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 1: people that seemed confused and stuff, they realized how much 444 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: of an insult was So to answer your question, yes, 445 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: these the people that really understood after I explained it 446 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 1: to him, and I sent out like a group email 447 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: to my building as well, going over the letter piece 448 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:13,880 Speaker 1: by piece saying, you know, you may have all received 449 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,879 Speaker 1: this letter. I'd like to just break this down unpacked 450 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,640 Speaker 1: with what metcaps are actually offering here and blah blah blah. 451 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: Once they realized how much of an insult it is, 452 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,159 Speaker 1: um and how out of touched UM the letter was 453 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 1: or the offer was, then yes, they are a lot 454 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,719 Speaker 1: of people were more prone, and I imagine that was 455 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: that was the difference maker for a lot of people 456 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,879 Speaker 1: that were on the fence about whether or not to 457 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,959 Speaker 1: go on strike. Um, just realizing that the landlord actually 458 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 1: wasn't operating in good faith and uh, how many folks 459 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 1: did you eventually get on board with this? Like what 460 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 1: what did this sort of top out at? And where 461 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,360 Speaker 1: are you now? Yeah? Well, okay, so like about my 462 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: or about our specific numbers, I'd rather not get into 463 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: that right now because there it's still early and we're 464 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:02,479 Speaker 1: still kind of growing. And like once the once we 465 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 1: start getting responses from the landlords and and like end 466 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,919 Speaker 1: for if actually notices and stuff like that, I'll have 467 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:14,640 Speaker 1: a better grasp on more specific, more specific things. Like 468 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:20,159 Speaker 1: but what I could say is um, for for your 469 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: your listeners, um that like you need to like if 470 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: there's a lot of talk about you know, what is 471 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: a what is a critical mass in a building? What 472 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 1: is enough people? Um? And I take that very seriously. 473 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: I don't think that it's it's responsible to just kind of, 474 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: you know, do this slightly without really covering all your bases. 475 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: So maybe I could talk a little bit about what 476 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: I think a critical mass should be and what it 477 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 1: should look like. Yeah, so, because it depends on a 478 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: few different things, right. Like one thing off the bat though, 479 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: is that I would say that you definitely don't need 480 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: your building to have a successful rents strike. Um. We 481 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 1: didn't have that in uh when we did this last 482 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: time in twenty we we spread a rent strike to 483 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: several buildings around around the neighborhood against this particular landlord 484 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: because of like I was saying earlier above, guideline increases 485 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: that we felt were unfair. They were legal but unfair 486 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: and coupled with neglect in the units, the repairs that 487 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 1: were required in the units, and just people living in 488 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: squaldor and not getting what they were owed. UM. And 489 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: we didn't have we didn't have pcent of each building. UM. 490 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: But we did have a critical mass. And what I 491 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: mean by that is we had enough people for the 492 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: accumulated amount of withheld rent. We had enough people for 493 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: that to sting to actually make a dent in UM 494 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: in the landlord's finances enough to cause to evoke a 495 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: response from the landlord. And then the second thing is 496 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: that UM, and I would say even more important is 497 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 1: if we had we had enough people involved so that 498 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 1: everyone was protected because we could trust that we had 499 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: a base of people to defend one another when it 500 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: came down to it. UM. So like different factors, and 501 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: in building a critical mass, UM, it depends on a 502 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: few different things. So like the size of your building. UM. 503 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 1: A lot of people, they'll they live in smaller buildings 504 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: where there's like you know, maybe four or five units, 505 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: and in that case it might be more important to 506 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: get a larger percentage of people just because there's so 507 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 1: few people living in the building. UM. Whereas in larger buildings, 508 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: you know, you can get a smaller percentage of people, 509 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 1: but since the building is so large, the the accumulated 510 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: amount of rent withheld is a huge chunk of money, 511 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: right Um. And then another factor is the amount of 512 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 1: rent even charged. You know, like different cities will have 513 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: different amounts of rent and different different situations between the 514 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 1: landlords and the ten in sin and uh and that 515 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: kind of thing. So that's another thing thing to consider. 516 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: And then the third thing I think would be also 517 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: the type of landlords. So people that have like that 518 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: are renting a basement apartment for instance, um, and their 519 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: lives landlord lives upstairs and that kind of thing, they 520 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: would have a different situation than myself who's living in 521 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: a large building that has this big corporate landlord that 522 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: manages several properties and stuff. Right, well, yeah, this is 523 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: this has been really great. Is there anything else you 524 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 1: wanted to get to before we roll out here? Anything 525 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 1: else you wanted to talk about? Just that this is 526 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 1: an ongoing thing, um, even after tenants withhold the rent 527 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: and stuff. It's so important to keep communication to make 528 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: sure that you know, any mutual aid keeps happening. It's 529 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: important to encourage tenants that chose to pay rent um 530 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 1: to reach out to you if they need help, and 531 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 1: that there's no there's division amongst neighbors regardless of whether 532 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: or not they're part of the organizing. They need to 533 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 1: be included UM and not feel left out UM. And 534 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 1: that also we're we're organizing for me. We don't see 535 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: this crisis ending in two weeks, like some people are saying, UM, 536 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: We're trying to get more people on board from me, because, 537 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 1: like I said before, this isn't a decision for a 538 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 1: lot of people. The decision to rent strike um is 539 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: reserved for those who have the luxury of that decision 540 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: many people, you know what I mean. So it's like 541 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: it's not a it's not a question of I think, yeah, 542 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: it from at least from my perspective, I feel it's 543 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 1: more of an obligation UM, because yeah, our neighbors needs 544 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 1: our our neighbors need us, and if we're not there 545 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: for them, I don't know. I don't think I mentioned 546 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: this earlier, and I'm sorry this kind of adds to 547 00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 1: the context of the whole thing, But there was an 548 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: eviction freeze in Ontario and in a lot of different cities, UM, 549 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: both in Canada in the US, and so that was 550 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 1: kind of passed off, is what they're doing to help renters, Like, oh, 551 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 1: we froze evictions, so you know they're covered, renters are 552 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 1: covered type of thing. But once the eviction frieste gets lifted, yeah, UM, 553 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,840 Speaker 1: it's not gonna it's not gonna look good. So I'm 554 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 1: prepared to like stand behind my neighbors UM, and and 555 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 1: I think that, yeah, if we can organize to make 556 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 1: this bigger for me first, which is underway, then that's 557 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 1: what we should be doing right now. And while making 558 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: sure that we're all we're all protecting each other and 559 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 1: redistributing our resources effectively. Yeah, I think that's really important, 560 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,719 Speaker 1: and I thank you for UM for sharing that with us. 561 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 1: I think UM, in general, I I hope more people 562 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 1: start thinking this way, UM, the way you've been thinking 563 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 1: in terms of like I have to organize my neighbors 564 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: and and myself to sort of not just like, uh, 565 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:14,760 Speaker 1: it's not just about UM getting everyone out of rent. 566 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,759 Speaker 1: It's about like protecting people from falling into a hole, right, Like, 567 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:23,360 Speaker 1: That's that's what we're talking about here, is UM giving 568 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 1: people a chance at a future like a lot of 569 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,319 Speaker 1: folks living on the edge having an extra two three 570 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 1: grand that they have to pay or whatever in rent fees. 571 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,839 Speaker 1: Like that's if we let that happen, it's just going 572 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,279 Speaker 1: to suck those people down into a fucking abyss, like 573 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 1: there's no way out. Yeah, this is this is another 574 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,720 Speaker 1: thing actually I forgot. I kind of forgot to mention 575 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:51,279 Speaker 1: was like just in preparing your neighbors for what to 576 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 1: expect from the landlord. Um, something that's really important to 577 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,400 Speaker 1: mention to your neighbors is that the a tactic that 578 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:02,880 Speaker 1: every landlord uses during collective actions like this is to 579 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 1: try and approach tenants individually to create repayment schemes UM. 580 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: And so that's something that is very important to mention. 581 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 1: UM that like if these repayment schemes become you know, 582 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: a widespread and stuff like this. If what happens is 583 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 1: when these when this eviction freeze gets lifted, all these 584 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: repayments schemes are are legally binding, and the way that 585 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: the process has been changed recently in Ontario, it's become 586 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 1: more of a streamlined process, so that if any of 587 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 1: these repayment schemes are broken between landlords and tenants, they 588 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 1: can just be evicted automatically without having to go back 589 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,279 Speaker 1: to the landlord tenant board. So for me, the long 590 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,799 Speaker 1: game seems to be that the landlords are expecting to 591 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,320 Speaker 1: get away with this massive displacement of working class people 592 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 1: gradually instead of all at once, in order to avoid 593 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 1: the media storm. And the way they're gonna do this 594 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,799 Speaker 1: is by signing our by pressuring tenants to individually sign 595 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 1: these repayment plans, so that when they default, you know, two, 596 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 1: three or four months after this is all over, in 597 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 1: a in a kind of staggered kind of way, it 598 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,440 Speaker 1: would be it would be more difficult for their neighbors 599 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 1: and their community to rise up and defend them because 600 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 1: they're not all being evicted at once. That's a really 601 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:20,759 Speaker 1: good point and there, and remember that the people that 602 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,319 Speaker 1: people that are saying that, oh, you know, you're you're 603 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,640 Speaker 1: doom and gloom. Landlords aren't gonna just massively displace thousands 604 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:29,839 Speaker 1: of people. And whether they do it all at once 605 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,319 Speaker 1: or over a long period of time, they don't want 606 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 1: to displace. In this this kind of thing, people need 607 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,839 Speaker 1: to remember that there are billions of dollars at stake here. 608 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,560 Speaker 1: Like I said, before. The people that they're displacing are 609 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,279 Speaker 1: paying extremely low rents, like I'm talking a third of 610 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 1: the amount of what landlords will charge once they're out 611 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:52,319 Speaker 1: of their units. So landlords are looking at tripling their 612 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,400 Speaker 1: money and in some case quadrupling their money. And all 613 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 1: they need to do is get rid of these people, 614 00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,120 Speaker 1: uh and a victim from their homes. So they're they're 615 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,759 Speaker 1: doing everything they possibly can for their shareholders in the end, 616 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 1: and it's their fiduciary responsibility. So they're scheming right now, 617 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:13,200 Speaker 1: and so are we. Um. Yeah, you know that's a 618 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 1: good point too, that they have a fiduciary responsibility to 619 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,920 Speaker 1: to a group of people who are not the folks 620 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 1: actually living in the property. Um. And you have a responsibility, 621 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:28,360 Speaker 1: a moral one to your neighbors. UM. And I guess 622 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:30,719 Speaker 1: we're going to see which of those wins out in 623 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,239 Speaker 1: the end. And landlords don't follow the laws, especially you know, 624 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:38,520 Speaker 1: like a lot of times people anytime we have a 625 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,080 Speaker 1: fight against the landlord, the media and the politicians and 626 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,839 Speaker 1: everybody brings up this this Cinderella story of the you know, 627 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,399 Speaker 1: the grandmother who rents out her basement apartment just trying 628 00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: to get by and this kind of thing. It's like, no, 629 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,240 Speaker 1: no, no no, that's an extremely extremely small percentage of the market. 630 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:56,600 Speaker 1: Most of the market is being taken up by these 631 00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:00,920 Speaker 1: massive corporate landlords that all sorts of illegal, shady tactics 632 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 1: and pick on people who aren't able to defend themselves 633 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,439 Speaker 1: like those in my community, right yum. And so it's 634 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 1: it's not even like they're following the rules. So when 635 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 1: people say, oh, look at these outlaw outlaws withholding their rent, 636 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 1: this is literally like the last straw, because I've witnessed 637 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,440 Speaker 1: a lot of really violent situations that are frankly extremely 638 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 1: illegal and immoral um conducted by landlords of all different kinds, 639 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,000 Speaker 1: big and small, um. And it's not pretty. And they 640 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 1: get away with it because the laws on their side. Um. 641 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:30,759 Speaker 1: And even when the law is not on their side, 642 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,080 Speaker 1: it's not enforced. So I think that's a great note 643 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,040 Speaker 1: to roll out on. Thank you so much for talking 644 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,760 Speaker 1: with me today. It's a huge pleasure. I really appreciate 645 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:53,800 Speaker 1: the opportunity for sure. I Worst Year Ever is a 646 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my 647 00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 648 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 1: or ever you listen to your favorite shows,