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Speaker 1: Joining us today is Kaivon Shroff, the Press secretary of

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Speaker 1: Dream for America. Welcome, Kivon. Great to be with you today.

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Speaker 1: Two hundred and thirty eight days to go. By the

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Speaker 1: time people hear this, it will be a little less.

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Speaker 1: But you are one of fifteen groups today that endorsed

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Speaker 1: President Biden. Tell me about that.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely so.

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Speaker 3: We were part today of one of the biggest youth

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Speaker 3: coalitions to endorse the presidential candidate in history, and we're

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Speaker 3: proud to do so because of the wins that Biden

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Speaker 3: has under his belt. I know there's been a lot

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Speaker 3: of conversation about the president's age, but as he laid

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Speaker 3: out at the State of the Union, it's about ideas,

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Speaker 3: new ideas that move us forward. And that's exactly what

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Speaker 3: he's done. He's you know, from gun violence to climate

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Speaker 3: change to student loan forgiveness. We can get into it all,

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Speaker 3: but he's shown up for young voters.

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Speaker 1: Your group aims to be oppositional to Turning Points USA,

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Speaker 1: which is the Charlie Kirk led group.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely so, basically, and we look at sort of the

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Speaker 3: school board races as a model for why we feel

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Speaker 3: the need to compete here because as I'm sure you're

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Speaker 3: well aware. I think Democrats sort of had their head

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Speaker 3: in the sand on some of those local races for

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Speaker 3: really decades, and then one day woke up and wondered, why,

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Speaker 3: you know, you had crazy curriculums being installed, you had

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Speaker 3: these book bands, you had school boards that were so

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Speaker 3: far right from what the actual communities represented, and that's

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Speaker 3: because there was a very well funded, well organized, top

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Speaker 3: down Republican effort to compete in those races, and Democrats

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Speaker 3: weren't showing up. Then finally you had groups like Run

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Speaker 3: for Something invest in those races, get some young, great

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Speaker 3: candidates involved, and in twenty twenty three, for example, right

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Speaker 3: it was a shutout of Moms for Liberty candidates, and

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Speaker 3: so we can win where we compete. Turn Point, similarly,

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Speaker 3: actually is super top down, very well funded, and they

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Speaker 3: actually do things. And this always surprises folks, but they

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Speaker 3: fund high school initiatives, they fund college level student government races.

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Speaker 2: So they are getting involved in that level.

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Speaker 3: And we want to be the counter to that because

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Speaker 3: we've seen that while young voters do trend progressive, and

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Speaker 3: obviously the vast majority support President Biden, there has been

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Speaker 3: one concerning trend specifically among twelfth grade boys, are trending

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Speaker 3: more conservative than in previous decades, and part of that

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Speaker 3: is because of this very sort of robust effort on

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Speaker 3: the right to indoctriate those young minds.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about that twelfth grade boy and they go

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Speaker 1: to a meeting of your group, and there's an occasion

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Speaker 1: where everyone kind of introduces themselves, and the twelfth grade

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Speaker 1: boy who goes to the meeting doesn't want to do

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Speaker 1: his pronouns, doesn't want to do it. Is that a

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Speaker 1: problem sitting around in the GAD that's a progressive political group?

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Speaker 1: Is he welcome there if he just says, you know,

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Speaker 1: my name is John. I don't want like I don't

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Speaker 1: I don't want to do it.

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Speaker 3: Well, So, to be honest, it's a chapter based model,

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Speaker 3: so the rules are not going to be the same

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Speaker 3: at every chapter. It's very much student led and we're

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Speaker 3: proud of that. What we do have is a policy

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Speaker 3: platform that I think is pretty broad and inclusive. So

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Speaker 3: as long as you're interested in some of those ideas

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Speaker 3: and not even all of them, you can be part

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Speaker 3: of our group. And even if you're not supportive, you

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Speaker 3: can come listen. But I think one of the things

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Speaker 3: we are focused on is sort of getting out of

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Speaker 3: the current conversation. You know, there's certain groups that are

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Speaker 3: going to go focus on registering voters for a specific election.

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Speaker 3: We are focused on winning the next decade, the next

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Speaker 3: two decades of this culture war conversation where everything sort

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Speaker 3: of is relegated back to a Democrat versus Republican, a

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Speaker 3: progressive left versus a far left versus a moderate.

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Speaker 2: We don't want to be in those labels.

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Speaker 3: We want to talk about policy issues that move people

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Speaker 3: in the country forward. We actually had a survey that

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Speaker 3: we sent out to our supporters and donors and volunteers recently,

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Speaker 3: and I think people would be surprised, but you know,

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Speaker 3: about two hundred gen Z respondents and issue number one

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Speaker 3: the economy, issue number two democracy, So young voters, aren't

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Speaker 3: you know the cliche that you see on the Harvard

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Speaker 3: campus leading with the most far right talk far sorry,

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Speaker 3: far left talking point that gets picked up in the

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Speaker 3: media and cycled around. You know, there's seventy million gen

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Speaker 3: Zers and they care about, you know, their future economically,

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Speaker 3: they care about having a good education, job prospects, all

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Speaker 3: of those things that every other American cares about.

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Speaker 1: So I want to talk to you about something that

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Speaker 1: I think is that you just brought up, which I

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Speaker 1: think is a really interesting aspect in our politics. And

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Speaker 1: our politics is bigger than right either Biden or Trump.

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Speaker 1: In my view, right, am my position on this race

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Speaker 1: right in an era where complexity is not something right

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Speaker 1: that's easy, Right, that's easy to communicate, is that I

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Speaker 1: am for Joe Biden all the way. Right. He could

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Speaker 1: literally be hooked up to a cryogenic tank. Right, I

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Speaker 1: have the more Cuban position, right, I am for him

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Speaker 1: right in a choice against Donald Trump. That being said, right,

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Speaker 1: the number has been as high as eighty percent of

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Speaker 1: the country. Right, That says right, I don't want to

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Speaker 1: see the rematch. And and there's a reason for that, right,

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Speaker 1: that goes beyond personality. And the reason for that is

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Speaker 1: what you just said. Your focused twenty years from now.

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Speaker 1: In twenty years from now, you're going to be my

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Speaker 1: age or less, probably in my horizon at at age

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Speaker 1: fifty three. Right, I'm looking ahead twenty years still right,

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Speaker 1: in twenty years more, when you're eighty one, your view

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Speaker 1: as it will be with us is backwards looking. You're

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Speaker 1: looking backwards at the last twenty years, so the last

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Speaker 1: thirty years, right, you're not looking at the next twenty years. Right.

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Speaker 1: And so you have a group. Your group is one

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Speaker 1: of fifteen groups that is speaking up for the youth vote. Right,

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Speaker 1: it's the it's the choice, no no question, right, like that,

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Speaker 1: that's that, that's choice, right, It's it's Trump or Biden.

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Speaker 1: Trump does support an old idea. It's an evil and

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Speaker 1: deadly one. It's called fascism. Put that aside for a second.

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Speaker 1: As a young person, and I have a I have

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Speaker 1: a twenty year old daughter, twenty year old steps on.

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Speaker 1: So the TikTok is brutal on Biden, right, it's brutal

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Speaker 1: right on the on the age, it's tough to get

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Speaker 1: oriented to what's real, to what's to what's true. A

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Speaker 1: lot of people look at Trump, right, he's just like

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Speaker 1: another big celebrity. Right, He's another big influencer. Right, He's

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Speaker 1: the politics version of whomever you want to, whomever you

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Speaker 1: want to name. Talk to me about how you see politics, right?

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Speaker 1: Is it? Is it? Right? Because by I didn't going

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Speaker 1: to be gone for a long time twenty years from that, right,

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Speaker 1: and and you're still going to be involved in this, right,

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Speaker 1: you're still going to be fighting for issues. So how

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Speaker 1: do you see this right, like in this moment, right,

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Speaker 1: how do you guys keep from becoming this little appendage

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Speaker 1: right of the Democratic National Committee and you know, caught

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Speaker 1: up and all the DC stuff, and you know, become

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Speaker 1: a cheerleader for the things you know you really deep

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Speaker 1: down want to change.

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Speaker 3: Well, I will say that compared to some of the

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Speaker 3: other Gen Z groups, we are pretty aligned on a

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Speaker 3: policy with the Biden administration because again, our goal is

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Speaker 3: progress in that traditional definition of the word progress, which

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Speaker 3: is achieving that next step forward. So we're not really

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Speaker 3: calling for impossible radical change that we then want to

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Speaker 3: use to sort of throw up the whole board game

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Speaker 3: and say, all right, well, I'm not going to vote

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Speaker 3: for anyone because I don't like this system that we're

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Speaker 3: in that we all have to suffer.

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Speaker 2: The consequence is of either way.

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Speaker 3: You talk about TikTok, and I think it's really interesting

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Speaker 3: because first of all, I don't think we should be

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Speaker 3: banning TikTok. I think there's many other solutions that are

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Speaker 3: more productive, and certainly our generation has used that to

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Speaker 3: build community online and get results offline. But what I

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Speaker 3: will say is that the conversation around so much of politics,

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Speaker 3: including social media and TikTok, the framing against young voters

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Speaker 3: is just so unnecessary. And I take TikTok as one example,

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Speaker 3: because what do you mean by that? Yeah, I'll give

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Speaker 3: you an example. It's if you remember that story a

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Speaker 3: viral letter of Osama bin Laden going viral on TikTok

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Speaker 3: and a bunch of people kind of sharing it saying, oh,

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Speaker 3: he kind of had a point about us getting involved

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Speaker 3: in foreign policy beyond you know what they could handle.

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Speaker 3: And the narrative of that was to bash gen Z.

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Speaker 3: But if you actually looked at the reporting, those were

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Speaker 3: forty year olds that were sharing that stuff.

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Speaker 2: Everyone is on TikTok right now.

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Speaker 3: I'm not saying there were no gen Zers, but the

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Speaker 3: fact is one hundred and fifty plus million Americans use TikTok.

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Speaker 3: It's really a main communication platform right now, just like

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Speaker 3: the other social media platforms. Just like your uncle on

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Speaker 3: Facebook used to be like the meme the joke, right

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Speaker 3: your uncle's getting disinformation on Facebook.

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Speaker 2: Now they're getting in on TikTok.

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Speaker 3: But why do we put that on young voters when

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Speaker 3: it's really a problem for the entire country that we

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Speaker 3: haven't regulated these social media tools.

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Speaker 2: In fact, we.

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Speaker 3: Should encourage that young voters want to be engaged, and

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Speaker 3: we should be concerned at the proliferation of disinformation and misinformation.

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Speaker 3: But it's a it's a collective problem that spans across cohorts.

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Speaker 3: It's not specifically owned by young voters. And yet I

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Speaker 3: feel that's the conversation same on so many issues, including selection,

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Speaker 3: where you know, there was a narrative for months and months,

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Speaker 3: and I hope our endorsement, you know, makes clear that

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Speaker 3: so many young voters don't share this view. But the

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Speaker 3: you know, young voters are going to cost Biden the

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Speaker 3: election narrative. First of all, I don't think that the

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Speaker 3: evidence has borne that out, because if you look at

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Speaker 3: New Hampshire, for example, where we have not just polls

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Speaker 3: but actual data, we see that in the bigger college towns,

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Speaker 3: Biden outperformed his primary average in the States, so younger

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Speaker 3: voters showed up in greater proportions. So I do think

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Speaker 3: one of the goals of our organization is to just

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Speaker 3: move beyond the tired discussions that we've been having as

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Speaker 3: a country.

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Speaker 1: What fatigues you the most about that conversation, Right, what

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Speaker 1: are the issues that you think that the country needs

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Speaker 1: to get a tands around over the next fifteen to

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Speaker 1: twenty years. They just commonsensically, pragmatically do you care about.

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Speaker 3: I think that it's going to really depend on who

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Speaker 3: wins this election, because we'll be in two very different worlds.

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Speaker 3: If Joe Biden gets another term, then of course it's

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Speaker 3: pushing to make sure that we can make the most

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Speaker 3: of having a well meaning, progress focused president deliver results.

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Speaker 3: And really, I think one of the lessons we learned

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Speaker 3: from the twenty twenty two midterms where young people really

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Speaker 3: showed up was a that Kamala Harris is a really

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Speaker 3: powerful surrogate because she had a major role in that.

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Speaker 2: But b that what young.

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Speaker 3: Voters want to see is people take big swings. Leaders

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Speaker 3: take big shots. And I think about student loan debt

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Speaker 3: as the key example, because you had the Supreme Court

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Speaker 3: block Joe Biden. That happened before the twenty twenty two midterms,

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Speaker 3: but young voters still showed up because why Biden said,

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Speaker 3: all right, I'm going to try this and this and

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Speaker 3: still get some loan forgiveness to you. And of course

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Speaker 3: that's what we expect, especially in an environment where for

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Speaker 3: the four years prior to Joe Biden we saw almost

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Speaker 3: every norm, every precedent, every.

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Speaker 2: Institution thrown away.

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Speaker 3: So you can't really tell young people anymore, that's not

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Speaker 3: how it's done, that's not how government works, because we've

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Speaker 3: been throwing away everything. Frankly, so I think we want

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Speaker 3: to see leaders fight. But what I will say is that, right,

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Speaker 3: I mean, if Joe Biden's the president, we get to

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Speaker 3: push on maybe more student loan forgiveness, Maybe some people

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Speaker 3: might care more about Supreme Court expansion. Everybody's going to

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Speaker 3: have their different progressive issue they want to focus on.

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Speaker 3: If Donald Trump's the president, we'll all be doggy paddling

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Speaker 3: to keep democracy a lot, you know.

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Speaker 2: So it's a very different world.

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Speaker 1: Are you waiting right for the first like forty two,

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Speaker 1: forty three, forty four year old candidate, first candidate who

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Speaker 1: has real currency, real resonance with your generation, A Clinton figure,

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Speaker 1: a JFK figure, right, you know, who who can connect

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Speaker 1: like I've just talked to me about that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think I think of it in two parts.

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Speaker 3: So number one on why isn't Biden getting credit for

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Speaker 3: the economy that you notice strong, I mean that four

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Speaker 3: hundred dollars statistic. It was true under the Trump administration.

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Speaker 3: So we can't explain that by talking about Joe Biden

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Speaker 3: or his policies. I think we can explain it by

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Speaker 3: talking about the media ecosystem. Frankly, that does seem antagonistic

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Speaker 3: towards this administration. And I think we're seeing the same

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Speaker 3: twenty six team playbook unfold. But what I'm excited to

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Speaker 3: see is I do think that people are hip to

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Speaker 3: that it's not going to be but her emails again,

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Speaker 3: because we lived through but her emails, So people are

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Speaker 3: going to call it out now, not in twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 3: and say, oh, looking back, we really should have said

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Speaker 3: the New York Times was doing a bad job.

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Speaker 2: And I do think I get Biden credit.

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Speaker 3: He got a lot of flak for saying that the

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Speaker 3: media should cover the economy more fairly. But what happened

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Speaker 3: a few weeks after he made that comment, they did

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Speaker 3: finally point out that the economy is doing pretty well.

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Speaker 2: And then what followed, of course.

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Speaker 3: Some perception changed and American started to see that it

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Speaker 3: is doing well. But I think on the future vision,

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Speaker 3: the future project, and actually, you know, I'm not a

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Speaker 3: fan of his presidential bid, but Cornell West was a

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Speaker 3: professor of mine, and he would constantly talk about, which

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Speaker 3: I agree with, this idea that American democracy, the beauty

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Speaker 3: of it was this idea of experimentation and being creative

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Speaker 3: with policy ideas. And we don't do that anymore. That

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Speaker 3: often we don't have states trying out awesome, cool programs.

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Speaker 3: I think part of that is because we're drowning right now.

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Speaker 2: We just have to stay.

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Speaker 3: We have to push out the MAGA movement. We have

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Speaker 3: to fend off Donald Trump before we can actually build

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Speaker 3: and invest in I think Joe Biden's tried to do that.

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Speaker 3: But when you're talking about the big structural change that's

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Speaker 3: needed to address those issues that you talk about, I

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Speaker 3: actually do think that the democratic vision of growth and

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Speaker 3: then redistribution in targeted areas to those folks that you

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Speaker 3: mentioned that are being left out of our society and

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Speaker 3: economy and democracy, really disenfranchised in every way. Part of

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Speaker 3: that is investing in education, investing in infrastructure, creating good jobs.

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Speaker 2: Let's do all that.

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Speaker 3: Let's regulate AI. Let's regulate these unhinged tech giants. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I have no faith in Musk, in Zuckerberg, in any

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Speaker 3: of those folks to lead us to the future, Sam Altman, Right,

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Speaker 3: I mean it's very concerning. So that really is consistent

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Speaker 3: I think with what the Democratic Arty.

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Speaker 1: I'm just listening to you, I like to what concerns

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Speaker 1: you about those guys as someone your age, right, I like,

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Speaker 1: I so like I look at it, and I'm like, so,

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Speaker 1: if Mark Zuckerberg is building a two hundred and sixty

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Speaker 1: five million dollars pad on his island in Hawaii, right

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Speaker 1: with the giant bunker complex underneath, that's all the evidence

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Speaker 1: I need. Right, He's he's not an optimist, stand right,

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Speaker 1: He's not on your side. Right. None of these guys

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Speaker 1: are on your side, anyone's side that I know out there.

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Speaker 1: But what concerns you about those people from your Yeah?

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think the behavior we see on display

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Speaker 3: is concerning, particularly from figures like Musk and David Sachs

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Speaker 3: and all those folks. But first of all, all these are,

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Speaker 3: let's be honest, they're you know, straight white men, typically

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Speaker 3: with maybe Peter Teel being the exception on the straight part.

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Speaker 3: But they come with a lot of privilege and they

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Speaker 3: tend to convince themselves that their success is because of

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Speaker 3: their own genius, which isn't really true. And then what

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Speaker 3: I think is most dangerous of all is that they

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Speaker 3: aren't so like. Look at the backgrounds of these folks.

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Speaker 3: I mean, Mark Zuckerberg didn't complete college, right, I mean

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Speaker 3: Elon Musk is famously anti education. So these are folks

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Speaker 3: that have really lived in a bubble. They haven't been

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Speaker 3: out in the world. They've been surrounded by yes men,

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Speaker 3: and there they have a lot of authoritarian.

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Speaker 2: Tendencies as a result.

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Speaker 3: I mean the idea that for so long we were

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Speaker 3: praising Elon Musk as a genius. And by the way,

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Speaker 3: how concerning that he has such a role in really

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Speaker 3: what should be government roles. Right, He's so intertwined in

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Speaker 3: what the US is doing abroad in all of these things.

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Speaker 2: He has too much power.

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Speaker 3: And just see the ownership of x slash Twitter. What

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Speaker 3: he could do with that, and we see it already, right,

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Speaker 3: because he spreads lies and he gets the community note removed,

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Speaker 3: so it's basically a propaganda outlet where he can now

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Speaker 3: drive as much energy as he wants you into spreading disinformation.

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Speaker 3: What do I think the ultimate goal is? And this

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Speaker 3: is just my random personal opinion. I think that if

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Speaker 3: you're super rich, of course you want chaos because without

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Speaker 3: the government, without regulation, without any other entity, all it

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Speaker 3: is is cash and resources, right, and then they can

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Speaker 3: all have their fiefdoms and the richest guy wins.

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Speaker 2: In that scenario. That's the truth, right.

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Speaker 3: I mean, when you get out of fact checking, there's

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Speaker 3: no more truth. When we're post truth. That's what Alan

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Speaker 3: Musk wants, right to be post truth. He wants no government.

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Speaker 3: Why all of these things so he can go un checked,

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Speaker 3: And it's just about who has the money in the

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Speaker 3: bank and the power. And then you ask that these

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Speaker 3: are morally banku people, so it's not like they're going

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Speaker 3: to benevolent dictators.

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Speaker 1: When you look at the youth vote inside the progressive

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Speaker 1: movement today, let's talk about Israel and Hamas how big

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Speaker 1: an issue for Biden?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, so, I will say I think that

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Speaker 3: has been overstated, the effect that young voters are defecting. Certainly,

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Speaker 3: some of the loudest voices maybe you know, particularly in

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Speaker 3: places like New York and California or Ivy League campuses,

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Speaker 3: are expressing a viewpoint that I don't think the majority

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Speaker 3: of young voters agree with. And I do think we

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Speaker 3: talked about earlier the toll that disinformation does take. So

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Speaker 3: I wrote months ago that the Biden administration, I mean, sorry,

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Speaker 3: the Biden campaign needed to get on TikTok to push

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Speaker 3: back against that disinformation. And I'm glad to see that

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Speaker 3: they did that, because we have to compete on every

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Speaker 3: platform that is putting out that type of content and

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Speaker 3: just correct the record simply.

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Speaker 2: I do think he was powerful at the State of

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Speaker 2: the Union.

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Speaker 3: I think he showed empathy for you know, he called

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Speaker 3: out thirty thousand lives lost, He explained his red lines,

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Speaker 3: He showed that if you thought he wasn't, you know,

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Speaker 3: invested in the situation, empathetic, I think he did convey

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Speaker 3: that too some folks. He's not going to win over

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Speaker 3: everyone on the issue, but look at the turnout in

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Speaker 3: these primary races. I mean, I do think even in

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty three, right they said Hamas Israel conflict is

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Speaker 3: going to be doom and gloom for Biden and the

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Speaker 3: you know, that cycle of elections. The attack occurred in October.

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Speaker 3: The backlash came swiftly after the elections were in November,

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Speaker 3: and young voters showed up. They showed up in Ohio

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Speaker 3: to protect abortion. You know, we're seeing over and over

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Speaker 3: that young voters, and I think this is both young

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Speaker 3: voters and progressive voters tend to share this maybe a

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Speaker 3: little bit, are less obsessed with the candidate the name.

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Speaker 3: We're not the cults of Joe Biden. I don't think

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Speaker 3: that Joe Biden has no fans. Like Chuck Todd once said,

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Speaker 3: you know, I consider myself a Joe Biden fan. But

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Speaker 3: it's not the cult of Joe Biden. It's about the

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Speaker 3: policies that we can move forward. And so to some extent,

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Speaker 3: you know, our young voters really going to sacrifice their

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Speaker 3: future over one issue, no matter how strongly they feel.

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Speaker 2: I don't buy it. I really don't buy it.

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Speaker 3: And I don't think we've seen it because we haven't

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Speaker 3: seen it in that primary example I gave you, we

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Speaker 3: haven't seen it in twenty twenty three. So the data

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Speaker 3: that we have doesn't seem to reflect that.

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Speaker 2: What.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think Trump has such endurance?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a lot of people.

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Speaker 3: You know, one person I really think is insightful on

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Speaker 3: Trump and sort of just right wing populism is Eric

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Speaker 3: Hoffer who wrote True Believer. I don't know if you're

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Speaker 3: familiar with it, but basically he explores right populism and

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Speaker 3: this idea down.

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Speaker 2: To the maga hat that people who are abject.

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Speaker 3: Failures in their lives, maybe not to their own blame,

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Speaker 3: but they want to get rid of their self identity

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Speaker 3: and engage in this mass identity, this group identity, and

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Speaker 3: importantly that leader, that cult leader of that group identity

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Speaker 3: that they see as their last hope, their last chance

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Speaker 3: on earth to make it, to succeed, to get out

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Speaker 3: of their their rut. And I do think a lot

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Speaker 3: of folks are in that right. Sorry, no, I was

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Speaker 3: just going to bring up the example of JD. Vance

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Speaker 3: and sort of how absurd it was that the book

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Speaker 3: of twenty sixteen was hillbilly elogy. This is a guy

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Speaker 3: that went to you know, Yale Law school and got

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Speaker 3: all these.

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Speaker 2: Government programs to support him.

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Speaker 3: I mean, he wouldn't be anywhere without the programs that

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Speaker 3: he bashes to this day. And to see that, suddenly

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Speaker 3: you flip that and it's like you look at his

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Speaker 3: family history, the choices they've made, right, I mean, bad

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Speaker 3: decision after bad decision, abusive, you know, men in.

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Speaker 2: The family, alcoholism, all these things.

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Speaker 3: And it's not to put blame, but it's to say, Okay,

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Speaker 3: the Democratic solution is, let's invest, let's chore this, let's

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Speaker 3: you know, give people the help they need and their

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Speaker 3: solution in those communities in part again to disinformation, because

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Speaker 3: it's not unique to young voters, is to spread hate

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Speaker 3: and blame and want to you know, totally totally absolve

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Speaker 3: themselves of any part in their own predicament. And that's

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Speaker 3: a that's a hard situation to communicate somebody out of.

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Speaker 1: When I hear you say that, and I want to

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Speaker 1: come back, I don't think you mean this. Maybe maybe

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Speaker 1: you give what what number do you want to give?

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Speaker 1: The Trump vote in the countries is seventy four million?

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Speaker 1: Is that the in the last in the last election. Sure, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he came in seventy four million. I don't think you're

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Speaker 1: classifying all seventy four million people as losers. No, Right,

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Speaker 1: I think we agree right that this is a noxious, toxic,

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Speaker 1: fascistic philosophy. Eight years on. If the election were right tomorrow,

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Speaker 1: a week ago, right, it could be a different matter.

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Speaker 1: Now to fluid situation, right, We're we're not walking to

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Speaker 1: the gallows yet as a country politically, but if the

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Speaker 1: election were tomorrow, a week ago, Trump would have won

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Speaker 1: that election.

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Speaker 2: Maybe if you're buying the polls.

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Speaker 1: I buy the polls, Okay, right? The why yeah? Well

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Speaker 1: so what is the appeal? Right in your view? Right?

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Speaker 1: You weren't around right when I was, when I was

434
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 1: your age, Right, But I can assure you, like when

435
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 1: I was, no one like Trump could conceivably be where

436
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 1: Trump is today. But obviously looking back, we were headed there.

437
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 1: And I think that this is the most underdiscussed question, right,

438
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: they should be talked more about, right, which is like

439
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: if it's a two team football league, we're losing to

440
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 1: the New York Jets because like what's wrong? Like what's

441
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 1: what's wrong? Like what? Like what's the why four years

442
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 1: after January six? Right? When you think about young people,

443
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 1: you think about the people you've got to school with,

444
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: Like why has this not been snuffed out yet? What's

445
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 1: the deficit?

446
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 3: Well, I will say, you know, to qualify my statement,

447
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 3: I'm not going to retract how I describe trunk voters.

448
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 3: But I do feel like what I'm talking about in

449
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,120
Speaker 3: that example is the maga core right, those extreme group

450
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 3: that's not the seventy four million people that voted for Trump.

451
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 3: That's a loud group that gets a lot of attention,

452
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 3: and they do have an impact in our politics, and

453
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 3: it does seem like they're driving the agenda on the

454
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 3: right for sure. But that is the point, right, Let's

455
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 3: talk about those other tens of millions of voters who

456
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 3: wouldn't identify with that caricature I described, and still are

457
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 3: willing to vote for a rapist who hates the country

458
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 3: and caused an insurrection, has no respect for a constitution democracy.

459
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 3: I think there's a number of reasons, whiteness and money.

460
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 3: I do feel that that is true. I think there's

461
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 3: a lot of people that see demographic change in the

462
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,880
Speaker 3: country and feel threatened by that and feel that they

463
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 3: want to vote against that.

464
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,120
Speaker 1: By the way, I have message, though, what is your

465
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 1: political message, guy who's fifty two in Michigan? You want

466
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 1: to talk about his whiteness because his answer to you is,

467
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 1: go fuck yourself. I'm going to vote for Trump.

468
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 3: No, But I don't want to talk about race. I

469
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 3: just want to say, don't be like. If all of

470
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 3: the things that you say bother you about Trump really

471
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 3: bother you, then you wouldn't be voting for him, So

472
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 3: why are you voting for him? It's because none of

473
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 3: the things laid out on the table are a deal breaker.

474
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 3: So either you viewed yourself as part of the in

475
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 3: group that Trump will protect, which is white, male Christian, right,

476
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 3: that's one possibility, or you just care about your money

477
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,120
Speaker 3: and do you think he's going to help you make money, which,

478
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 3: by the way, when the American economy shuts down because

479
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 3: an incompetent leader allows a global pandemic to fester far

480
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 3: beyond what it needed to, that's not good for anyone's pocketbook.

481
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 3: So I think we need to communicate that way. I

482
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 3: don't want to get caught.

483
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 2: Up in the race stuff.

484
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 3: But by the way, the reality is there's a whole

485
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 3: There's one hundred million voters that didn't vote in twenty sixteen,

486
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 3: so it's not only one small group of people that

487
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 3: we should be campaigning for.

488
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 2: And you know, orienting our.

489
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 3: Messaging to and due respect to the Lincoln Project and

490
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 3: the never trumpers, because they absolutely have won over some

491
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 3: hearts and minds.

492
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 2: But I do feel a little.

493
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 3: And this could be my maybe I'll disclaim Braddy perspective,

494
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,400
Speaker 3: but it is a little bit like you just showed

495
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 3: up to the party and now you want to tell

496
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 3: everyone what to do.

497
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 2: It's a little bit interesting. It's kind of like, Okay, welcome,

498
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:42,400
Speaker 2: we'd love.

499
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 3: To have you be part of the pro democracy coalition,

500
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 3: Like grab a seat in the back a little bit,

501
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,400
Speaker 3: because it's like the number of folks that are constantly

502
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 3: tweeting out Bill Crystal's one great example, right, what Democrats

503
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 3: need to do. It's like, Democrats won the last election.

504
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,919
Speaker 3: Democrats keep winning. Democrats have a broad coalition across a

505
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:03,239
Speaker 3: diverse set of constituents, So we can't our messaging, you know,

506
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 3: moderate to former Republican white dudes, like because I think

507
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 3: that gets too Also, the conversation right around Vice President Harris, You've.

508
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: You've you've raised you've raised up. I mean that was

509
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 1: the sixth time that we've been talking where you've said

510
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: white guys. And the Democratic Party is losing because it

511
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: is alienated broad swaths for whatever reason. I can't figure

512
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: it out of like white working class America that feels

513
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: like the party doesn't see them, doesn't get them, doesn't

514
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: doesn't understand them. And I think that's that's beyond dispute.

515
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: But but there's two kind of aspects about politics. And

516
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: you talked about you talked about Bill Crystal. I think

517
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: the Lincoln Project as it exists today, there's an old saying, right,

518
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 1: all causes become a business, become a racket, right, And

519
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: that's what the Lincoln Project is right today. Today it's

520
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 1: a small dollar grift. In twenty twenty, it was one

521
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 1: hundred million dollar organization that did a couple billion dollars

522
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: of impact in the race by making the race about

523
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: Donald Trump. And the thing to understand about the campaign

524
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: is whomever the race is about is the person who's

525
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: going to lose. And Biden's fundamental problem has been that

526
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: the race thus far has been made about him and

527
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: his competence by Trump, the most incompetent president in American history.

528
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 1: And so, for example, what Trump has been successful at

529
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: for a lot of reasons, right, is the ability to

530
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: go out and to say this was the most disrespectful

531
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: state of the Union in all of American history. Partisan

532
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: Joe Biden here, like, wait a second, aren't you the

533
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: guy who incited the insurrection where the people came into

534
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: the chambers and pissed and shit all over the floors? Right?

535
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: So that's the response point, Right, that's the point of contact. Right,

536
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: they constantly they constantly has to be that constantly has

537
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: to be fought over. But what I would say to you,

538
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 1: in kind of your estimation of American politics, when you

539
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 1: talk about getting getting in line, right like Bill Crystal,

540
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: wait your turn, what I would say is the coalition

541
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 1: necessary to win isn't big enough to tell the Bill

542
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: Crystal side of that coalition to get in the back

543
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 1: of the bus, because that element, that cohort is necessary

544
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 1: as it stands right now to win. So that Nikky

545
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: Haley voter, most of those people will vote for Trump.

546
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: Some of those people will stay home, right, that's okay,

547
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: a smattering right will cross over and vote for Biden

548
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: where the number is five six percent. But but like

549
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 1: there's a but in the culture. Like when I asked

550
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: about the guy right, if he sat down, he said, like, listen,

551
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: I don't want to do my pronoun. Is he welcome

552
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 1: at the group? Is the white guy welcome at the table?

553
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 1: But when people here constantly right, that that prism, like

554
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 1: my my view of it is is people just say, okay,

555
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 1: go fuck yourself off for Trump, right, and they'll walk

556
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: into the booth and they do it. And I guess

557
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 1: I don't get you why you don't see the.

558
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 3: The way you distilled it is so perfect because it

559
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 3: really is being posed as an either I show up,

560
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 3: I take over, I tell you everything to do, or

561
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 3: I'm out, fuck you, I'm going to trump, right, Which

562
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 3: that's not fair. That's not how coalitions are built, and

563
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 3: that's not respectful, it's not how you commun And I'm

564
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 3: talking about.

565
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about Bill Crystal idea right human psyche.

566
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 3: I'm talking about why is the only we have to

567
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 3: totally capitulate to what that guy that walks in the

568
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 3: first time says, versus welcome them, consider them, but there's

569
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 3: other people to consider too. And I will say, you

570
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 3: know you mentioned that I'm saying white or whatever, I

571
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 3: mean nothing to do with other than the fact that

572
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 3: we do.

573
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 2: And I hope you would agree.

574
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 3: You have a dangerous white nationalist movement in the country

575
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 3: that we are trying to stomp out because it's bad

576
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 3: for our democracy. So it's very hard to push back

577
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 3: against that without saying the word white. Nothing against you know,

578
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 3: any race. And I will also say, you know we

579
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 3: were talking about than never trump folks, it does happen

580
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 3: to be that those are all forty to seventy year

581
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 3: old ish white guys that I would think of that

582
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 3: are prominent, right, I mean, you got George Conwy. Is

583
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 3: that fair or not fair?

584
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: Like? I think that there are a lot of forty

585
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 1: to seventy year old white guys right that are involved in.

586
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 3: Which is great. We want them, I mean absolutely please.

587
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 3: I hope they support Joe Biden. But that's just why

588
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 3: I was using those rs.

589
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: Right in American life, you have, you know, the core

590
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: of that, the core of that movement, you know, came

591
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 1: out of the Republican Party, right, A very small element

592
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 1: of people, you know that wouldn't like.

593
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:19,839
Speaker 2: Well, let's just say it wasn't gonna be a lot

594
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 2: of that out.

595
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,359
Speaker 1: But here's but but here's the instinct, right, I mean

596
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: there's a question, right you look at inside the Democratic Party, right,

597
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: you know, what would happen right in a similar circumstance, Right,

598
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: what would happen and who would get in line and

599
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 1: who wouldn't get in line? Right? And that's a that's

600
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: a really important question. You look at someone like an

601
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: ilhan Omar who talks about it's a you know makes

602
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 1: an anti semitic statement. You look at somebody, you know,

603
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 1: like Robert Menendez. Right, what does Chuck Schumer say? Right,

604
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 1: one of the great quotes of the year goes out

605
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,720
Speaker 1: and he says, ah, Mendes has been a great public

606
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: servant for the state of New Jersey. Right. So that, right,

607
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:22,959
Speaker 1: all of it accrues to Trump's benefit. Right, because two

608
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:30,439
Speaker 1: parties in the toilet, the sewer party wins every time. Right.

609
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: And so you know, the Democratic coalition, right needs to

610
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 1: be the American coalition needs to include everybody. And that's

611
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,399
Speaker 1: what the opportunity is. But let me ask you this

612
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 1: Trump Trump. We wake up in November and Trump wins,

613
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 1: why will he have won?

614
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 3: I mean, I feel that you're not going to like

615
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 3: the answer, but I would say the answer is racism

616
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:01,240
Speaker 3: and sexism all the Isn't that we've been talking about

617
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 3: this one group that continues to show up for Donald Trump,

618
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 3: that is driven by sort of this hatred for everybody else,

619
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 3: That is the core.

620
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: What about the millions of people in that cohort who

621
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: voted for Barack Obama twice voted for Trump. Millions but

622
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: three out of three, two out of.

623
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 2: Three, I think we've had.

624
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:27,760
Speaker 1: It's a big number.

625
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:29,839
Speaker 2: Well, I think the.

626
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 3: Other piece of it is certainly disinformation has spread rampantly.

627
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 3: You even have efforts to target specifically Hispanic groups with

628
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 3: misinformation in Spanish. So these are well funded, robust efforts,

629
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 3: and again that's the type of stuff our group's trying

630
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 3: to push back against.

631
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: What's the misinformation a Hispanic voter is getting that they're

632
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 1: susceptible to.

633
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 3: Oh, disinformation about word of vote, when to vote, voter

634
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 3: suppression efforts, lies about the economy, lies about what Trump

635
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 3: has done. I mean the same to some extent, the

636
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 3: same lies that Trump is just saying out loud at

637
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 3: his rallies.

638
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 2: But they're targeted.

639
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 3: They're you know, in a radio ad on a you know,

640
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 3: comfortable station that you trust and listen to, and there's

641
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 3: a massive effort for that for sure.

642
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 1: Do you think when you look at that, do you

643
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 1: get why a Hispanic vote or a US citizen looks

644
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,800
Speaker 1: at the border and says, this is crazy, I'm voting

645
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:27,280
Speaker 1: for Trump.

646
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 3: No, because Trump didn't do anything to help the border situation,

647
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 3: and Joe Biden's put forth bipartisan border deals. So that

648
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 3: would be an example where I would see.

649
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 1: And again I'm not I'm not debating. I'm not debating,

650
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 1: but I would say that's the example of this information

651
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: so much. I was just asking, like, do you understand I.

652
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 3: Get like, I get it in theory, but in reality

653
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 3: it doesn't make sense for that person to take that action.

654
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 1: But but you you would write, again, I'm forbide, but

655
00:37:55,719 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 1: you would acknowledge the current situation on the border was

656
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 1: not like this on noon on twenty January twenty twenty one,

657
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 1: when Joe Biden the.

658
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:12,879
Speaker 2: World was shut in command the world was shut down.

659
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 1: Well, I under I can tell me.

660
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,280
Speaker 2: I don't know how to answer that, because it's appearing

661
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 2: like to like, what's.

662
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: The number, what's the number that you would agree that

663
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 1: have come into the country illegally, just as a matter

664
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 1: of fact, the numbers between three to eight million. You

665
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: would you that they that that's thrown around.

666
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 3: But I think it's less about the number and more

667
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 3: about who's doing what to address the issue. Joe Biden's

668
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,359
Speaker 3: had more deportations than Trump.

669
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 2: Right, I mean, so what matter?

670
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 3: I understand, I acknowledge it's the problem. Joe Biden acknowledges

671
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 3: it's a problem. I think everyone acknowledges it's a problem.

672
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 3: So who's doing something about it and trying to do

673
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 3: it in a humane, compassionate way.

674
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 1: Do you think that that could be the issue when

675
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 1: you look at the issues, right, when you that this

676
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 1: is this is the issue that you most worry Like

677
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 1: for me, it's the issue that I'm most worried about

678
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,879
Speaker 1: as being the one that that could take by now

679
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 1: in this in this election, this is a and and right,

680
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 1: there's every potential, right that it goes completely next level

681
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 1: with with a with a disaster that's unfolding, and Haiti

682
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,720
Speaker 1: right that that looking at our news environment is still

683
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 1: you know, T minus eleven days and six hours for

684
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: making the news. But but but we'll but we'll make

685
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: it right, And you have eleven million people on an

686
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,879
Speaker 1: island seven hundred miles from Florida across the straits right

687
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 1: with an eastern current that takes them to Puerto Rico.

688
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,839
Speaker 1: So right, that's that that's coming, that's coming down the pike.

689
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 1: But is there an issue that makes you particularly acutely

690
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:09,240
Speaker 1: worried about, like anxious in this election cycle?

691
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 3: I mean, I would put immigration certainly up there, But

692
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 3: I think the point is, I mean there's any There's

693
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:18,279
Speaker 3: so many issues I could say, because I do think

694
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,919
Speaker 3: that Joe Biden has gotten unfair coverage, and that's maybe

695
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 3: a separate topic, but my point being that now we

696
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 3: have eight months to campaign, So whatever the issues are,

697
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 3: this is the chance to confront them address them.

698
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 2: On immigration, for example, there.

699
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,919
Speaker 3: Is some data that shows at least that, yes, Trump

700
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 3: does get an advantage on immigration as an issue if

701
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 3: people think he would be better and tougher.

702
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 2: Once you explain to.

703
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 3: Them that he ruined the bipartisan deal to address immigration,

704
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:45,840
Speaker 3: that effect disappears.

705
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 2: So how can you do that? You campaign?

706
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 1: Do you think anyone cares?

707
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 3: I think a good amount of people just want to

708
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 3: talk talk talk, talk talk. They're unchangeable. They pretend that

709
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 3: they're open minded to changing their vote. They're absolutely not,

710
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 3: because underlying whatever they say are these sort of gut

711
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 3: in group out group dynamics Bobo and sedaneus, right, I mean,

712
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 3: who dominates and who's out? And I think a lot

713
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,800
Speaker 3: of people see that and they look at themselves whatever

714
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 3: it is, race, religion, creed, and they say this is

715
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 3: the in group. I'm going to be part of that

716
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 3: in group or I'm not going to be part of

717
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 3: that in group, I better vote this way, and that's

718
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 3: what they're going to do. Or they care about their

719
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,359
Speaker 3: economic you know, situation, and they have thoughts about that,

720
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 3: accurate or inaccurate, often inaccurate, and they're already decided. So

721
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 3: they may think Trump is horrible, but that's just how

722
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 3: they're going to vote. They were raised to think that

723
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 3: voting Republican either meant they there was a symbol that

724
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 3: they were rich, or that it actually helps them get richer,

725
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 3: and you know, it's not necessarily true, but they're going

726
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 3: to vote that way anyways, because mom and Dad told

727
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 3: them thirty years ago.

728
00:41:53,680 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: So anytime I talk to somebody your age about piles right,

729
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 1: like in this election, which I really like enjoyed doing,

730
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 1: I really and then I wind up having conversations about

731
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 1: people your age, right, like with my friends and everything.

732
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: After every time I talked to somebody right approximate to

733
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 1: your age, and I go back, right, we have a

734
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 1: gen X conversation. I can't like, I can't describe to

735
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: you what it was like between nineteen ninety two and

736
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: in two thousand from the optimism perspective, I mean, you

737
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:43,439
Speaker 1: had Clinton's impeachment Gingrich, lots of crazy shit going on.

738
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 1: Some people were saying it was the worst ever, but

739
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: it was post Berlin Wall, Pax Americana, and nobody was

740
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 1: talking about World War three. So here we are, right

741
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, twenty twenty five, and you look at

742
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 1: major war in Europe that's approaching a half million total casualties,

743
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 1: an escalating war across the Middle East. Do people you're age,

744
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: who are politically engaged and involved, do you talk about

745
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: the instability in the world and the danger in what

746
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: a global conflict looks like with the United States involved.

747
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 3: And I think it's on people's mind, a global conflict.

748
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 3: I think it's just on as on people's mind a

749
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 3: domestic conflict, where I think if you ask the average

750
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 3: young person, you think there'll be a civil war or

751
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 3: World War three first fifty fifty, I don't know, you know,

752
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,879
Speaker 3: and that's really scary. But I will say, I mean

753
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,839
Speaker 3: the picture you paint, I mean obviously ended with nine

754
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 3: to eleven and then the Iraq War, and then you

755
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 3: had a whole different outlook on the world in the

756
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,479
Speaker 3: country for some people, I do want to say, because

757
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 3: I know we're close to the end, I am incredibly

758
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 3: optimistic about America. I am incredibly proud to be an American.

759
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 3: I come from my four grandparents all came here in

760
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 3: their twenties, So I certainly know the promise of America.

761
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 3: It delivered for them, It delivered for my parents, it's

762
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 3: certainly delivered for me. I'm here talking to you live

763
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 3: in my dreams, and I think that it's we disagreed

764
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 3: a lot, hopefully respectfully, over this hour, but it gives

765
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,399
Speaker 3: me hope that somebody from where you're sitting and maybe

766
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:39,800
Speaker 3: even more right than you, hopefully all the way left

767
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 3: or you know, to some amount left, is in the

768
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 3: Biden camp and we can do this and we can

769
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 3: build that coalition and we can talk it out. And

770
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:48,720
Speaker 3: so I do think that there's a lot at stake

771
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 3: if we're successful here. You know, the potential for the

772
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:53,320
Speaker 3: country is great.

773
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:55,839
Speaker 1: Well, I want you to know I admire you your

774
00:44:55,960 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 1: idealism and being involved in this group and inspiring young

775
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 1: people to be involved. You remember, as you do this, right,

776
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 1: the prism that you can reach everybody through is that

777
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 1: American prism that you just talked about, right, and that

778
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 1: you know someone who agrees with you. Eighty percent of

779
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 1: the time, as Ronald Reagan once pointed out, is not

780
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:22,959
Speaker 1: your political opponent, they're your ally. And there's a lot

781
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: of work to be done before November, and it's going

782
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,760
Speaker 1: to take a lot of energy, a lot of idealism,

783
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 1: and young people got to show up, you know, into

784
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 1: an election where you know there's two old guys on

785
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 1: the ballot, but you know the reality, you know, the

786
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 1: choice is this that there's a big difference between them,

787
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:44,400
Speaker 1: and one of those choices could take us down a

788
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 1: path where we lose the country.

789
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

790
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:48,720
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time.

791
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 2: Thank you privileged for joining