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Speaker 1: If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough. You're

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Speaker 1: listening to Software Radio, Special Operations, Military Nails and straight

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Speaker 1: talk with the guys in the community.

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Speaker 2: To another wonderful episode of soft Rep Radio. I am

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Speaker 2: your host, rad Thank you again for tuning in to

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Speaker 2: those of you that have followed us, and if you're new,

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Speaker 2: welcome to the show. Today's guest is pretty cool. We're

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Speaker 2: going to talk about it in just a second. You

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Speaker 2: probably already know who he is because you clicked on

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Speaker 2: the link and his name's in there. However, I want

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Speaker 2: to tell you about the merch store soft rep dot

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Speaker 2: com forward slash merch Go check it out. We got

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Speaker 2: new stuff coming out, so be one of the first

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Speaker 2: ones to get it. Tag me in it soft rep

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Speaker 2: Mafia hashtag soft reap mafia on the internet. The other

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Speaker 2: thing we have is our book club and that soft

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Speaker 2: rep dot Com Forward slash book hyphen Club. In there

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Speaker 2: you can find all sorts of reading material that has

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Speaker 2: been designed and curated by the Special Operations guys and

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Speaker 2: gals behind the scenes of soft Rep for you who

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Speaker 2: likes this world and this community that we are in

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Speaker 2: right now. So, without further ado, I have the Traverse

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Speaker 2: Traverse Project main man, Austin Shamlin on with us today

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Speaker 2: and we're going to talk about the Traverse Project. Now.

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Speaker 2: I'm doing the waves with my hands if you're not,

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Speaker 2: if you're listening, I had to really work on the

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Speaker 2: word traverse. So are traverse because I'm saying traverse right,

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Speaker 2: I'm from Utah. I'm so sorry it's traverse and welcome

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Speaker 2: to the show.

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Speaker 3: Austin, thank you so much for having me today.

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Speaker 2: No, it's cool. I'm glad that Cyrus Nork awesome mutual

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Speaker 2: friend of ours. Like Yo, Rad, you should get my

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Speaker 2: man on and have him talk, so shut up to Cyrus, right.

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Speaker 2: And he's also I noticed on your team's profile if

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Speaker 2: you go to if you go to the Traverse Project Traverse,

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Speaker 2: if you go there, the.

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Speaker 3: Amount of people that do the same thing. You know

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Speaker 3: you're not the first. Don't worry about it.

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Speaker 2: I think we're gonna make it memorable. People will be like,

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Speaker 2: it's the reverse the Reverse project. Cyrus is part of

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Speaker 2: the faces of your team. You're part of the faces.

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Speaker 2: You've got quite a few faces on there.

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Speaker 3: We do, we do It's uh. I think people just

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Speaker 3: kind of connect with our mission and.

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Speaker 2: Just want to get involved and tell me your mission,

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Speaker 2: tell us your mission. Let's just hear that right now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So we we combat human drafting and we do

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Speaker 3: it a little bit different than everybody else out there.

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Speaker 3: You want to get into the origin story.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, what what? What? Yeah? Let me choose

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Speaker 2: you over them. You know what I'm saying, like, what

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Speaker 2: is it that you know your organization is doing differently

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Speaker 2: than the other organizations because there are organizations out there

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Speaker 2: that say they are combating human trafficking, But you know,

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Speaker 2: is it like us on the outside of the organization

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Speaker 2: might look at it and say, oh, it's just another

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Speaker 2: organization trying to create itself to be a not for profit.

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Speaker 2: But when you start reading about what you're all about,

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Speaker 2: you can see obviously that you guys have meaning and

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Speaker 2: and heart into what you want to do. So please

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Speaker 2: let us know what. You're the vocal point and we're listening,

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Speaker 2: So go ahead.

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Speaker 3: So the name will start with the name, right, Traverse Project.

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Speaker 3: It's because when you traverse something, it's difficult, right, And

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Speaker 3: that's where the name came from. So it's difficult for

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Speaker 3: the victims of human trafficking. It's difficult to fight this

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Speaker 3: it's just difficult all the way round, right, And so

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Speaker 3: that's why we came up with the name that we

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Speaker 3: did for this organization. My background is in law enforcement,

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Speaker 3: and then I spent a bunch like eighty percent of

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Speaker 3: my career working for PMCs and every place that's been

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Speaker 3: on TV for the last twenty five years. Right. But

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Speaker 3: when I left government work in contracting in twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 3: I went to go work for a rescue organization, right

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Speaker 3: and in the in the human trafficking nonprofit space, and

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Speaker 3: very quickly, you know, when I was a cop, I

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Speaker 3: realized that we weren't going to arrest our way out

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Speaker 3: of this problem, right, And then when I went to

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Speaker 3: this nonprofit side of it in twenty sixteen, I realized

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Speaker 3: pretty quick that we're not going to rescue our way

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Speaker 3: out of it. It's just kind of like mowing the grass.

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Speaker 3: And we can get into what I mean by all that,

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Speaker 3: you know, down the roads, it's.

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Speaker 2: Just never going to stop. If you have grass, it's

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Speaker 2: always going to grow.

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Speaker 3: And you have you're out there every Friday mon it, right,

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Speaker 3: or every Saturday morning more.

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Speaker 2: Right, and trafficking's not going to stop, like you said,

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Speaker 2: since you know, since King George banned it before we

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Speaker 2: went to war with them in England to become America. Right.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people don't realize that America it was

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Speaker 2: all about, you know, the tea and the t axes

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Speaker 2: and dumping it into the harbor. But really it was

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Speaker 2: King George put out a message saying no more slavery

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Speaker 2: because he's like, no more, because he's like it's bad.

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Speaker 3: Which is funny because you know, the United States in

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Speaker 3: the nineteen hundred it has had to force the UK

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Speaker 3: to stop colonizing, which is you know, a force of labor.

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Speaker 2: Right since since gang it's I mean absolutely, yeah, look

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Speaker 2: how long they get colonizing.

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Speaker 3: Every every population in the world has been trafficked right

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Speaker 3: by our terms, right, whether it's late or not. My sister,

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Speaker 3: my oldest sister is actually adopted, right, and so she

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Speaker 3: is Vietnamese. She left Vietnam. She was trafficked out of

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Speaker 3: Vietnam three days before Laos fell. Yeah. Absolutely, and so

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Speaker 3: this has been you know, part of my DNA before

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Speaker 3: I was even a you know, sparkle in my daddy's eyes.

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Speaker 3: They say, right, so it's it's and you know, this

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Speaker 3: is either a testament to how stupid I am or

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Speaker 3: true love. But I was probably ten before I realized

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Speaker 3: that this Asian woman was not related to me by blood, right,

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Speaker 3: I'm serious. I remember having a conversation with one of

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Speaker 3: my other sisters when I was like ten years old.

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Speaker 3: She had to break the news to me, so, uh yeah,

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Speaker 3: and I you know, so anyway I.

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Speaker 2: Feel you on that, I feel it. I feel it

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Speaker 2: because my friends were all growing up, we had saw

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Speaker 2: owens in California and the church that we went to

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Speaker 2: and we'd all take baths and I'm like, well, how

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Speaker 2: come they're still not how come they're not getting it off?

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Speaker 2: And I'm not, what do I get my dark I'm

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Speaker 2: just like little six year old me. No, I thought

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Speaker 2: this was my family, my brothers, you know. No, Yeah, it's.

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Speaker 3: Amazing, Like how I mean, I think it's a testament

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Speaker 3: to true love, right, you know, like you love your

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Speaker 3: your your adopted family that you grew up with. I

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Speaker 3: loved my I still love my my sister very much.

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Speaker 3: You know, she just had her third grandson, so it

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Speaker 3: was a couple of hard years for me. Yeah, it

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Speaker 3: was a couple of hard years for her. But you know,

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Speaker 3: she came to the family and like came into a

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Speaker 3: very loving family and and you know we're just we

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Speaker 3: are one big, happy family. So anyway, I kind of

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Speaker 3: got off.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Ah, no, would you call? So was she

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Speaker 2: adopted through the pipeline or was she really like kind

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Speaker 2: of you know, extradited out of like trafficked out by

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Speaker 2: with love.

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Speaker 3: But it's still you know, it wasn't it wasn't loved

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Speaker 3: when she left Vietnam. I mean, it was she came

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Speaker 3: to the United States is what's referred to as an

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Speaker 3: indentured service, and uh, you know, it's a form of

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Speaker 3: debt trafficking where you just never get out of it, right,

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Speaker 3: And so she was here in the United States being

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Speaker 3: a victim of trafficking. My mother was a foster mother

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Speaker 3: at the time, and she came through the system through

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Speaker 3: CPS or Child protect Services, came was placed with my

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Speaker 3: mother and just she is the only child that my

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Speaker 3: mother just she never left. She wouldn't love her very

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Speaker 3: much yet. And so when my mom moved from Missouri

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Speaker 3: back to the DC metropolitan area, you know, QUI came

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Speaker 3: with it, and so you know, it's just yeah, it's

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Speaker 3: it's a it's a really great story. I mean, I

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Speaker 3: I and it's just amazing that I ended up in

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Speaker 3: this career field because of what happened to my sister, right,

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Speaker 3: you know, I kind of smunked it up and and

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Speaker 3: throughout throughout my career working overseas and developing in conflict zones.

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Speaker 3: You know, we see I mean, you were in the military, right,

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Speaker 3: We see every form of trafficking in the various places

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Speaker 3: that we spent you know, uh in in Afghanistan. We

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Speaker 3: all know what happens, right, We all remember the stories

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Speaker 3: of the Special Forces major that punched the guy in

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Speaker 3: the face and got you know, you know, all the

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Speaker 3: bad stories that happened because of the trafficking situations and

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Speaker 3: really bad stuff that we'd see. I spent a lot

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Speaker 3: of my time in Haiti and there you just you

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Speaker 3: see it everywhere, right, yeah, And so Haiti. I've spent

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Speaker 3: the most amount of my career in wow there in

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Speaker 3: twenty ten. And I mean, like, I'm divorced now, but

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Speaker 3: my wife at the time would joke with me and say,

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Speaker 3: you've got another family down there. You're there so much.

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Speaker 3: There has to be something you are. You know, she's

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Speaker 3: joking with me. But I mean it was just I

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Speaker 3: really love Haiti and it's really tragic what's going on there.

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Speaker 3: But anyway, I got off on the paneling here. So

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Speaker 3: when I left Juglement twenty six, finally done with government,

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Speaker 3: I went to go work for this rescue nonprofit. That place.

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Speaker 3: You just learned very quickly that mowing the grass is

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Speaker 3: never going to stop the grass from growing, all right.

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Speaker 3: And so I was there for about five years as

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Speaker 3: the director of international operations, and twenty twenty two, I mean,

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Speaker 3: it was a super busy year. We had a nine

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Speaker 3: month long investigation in Dominican Republic which resulted in the

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Speaker 3: rescue of eighty three Venezuelan and Colombian women out of

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Speaker 3: the Dominican Republic. About twenty ish Dominicans were arrested, and

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Speaker 3: we repatriotd those eighty three girl back down to Colombia.

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Speaker 3: Obviously we couldn't send them back to Venezuela with what

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Speaker 3: everything going on there, right, but the you know, And

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Speaker 3: then I went down. I met with their version of

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Speaker 3: the FBI, and it's this young twenty eight year old

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Speaker 3: police captain and she had four investigators that worked for

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Speaker 3: and she had over seven hundred cases of Colombian women

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Speaker 3: that have been trafficked out of the out of their

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Speaker 3: borders internationally, and she had no resource, Like she didn't

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Speaker 3: even have enough money to send her investigators from one

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Speaker 3: part of the country to the other. And you know

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Speaker 3: what do you need? It was data analytics like force multipliers, right.

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Speaker 3: And so I went back to my boss at the time,

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Speaker 3: and you know, this is no slight to him. It's

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Speaker 3: a slapped to the face to him. But it's just

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Speaker 3: the way the nonprofit world works. Donors want to see

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Speaker 3: the stuff that we've all seen on Instagram or you know,

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Speaker 3: TikTok of. You know, they want to see Navy seals

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Speaker 3: busting open doors and rescue the little kids. And that's

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Speaker 3: great and all, and there's a lot of organizations out

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Speaker 3: there that do it. I'm not a fan of it,

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Speaker 3: you know. I guess I would consider myself an expert

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Speaker 3: in this field, and I don't think that those things work.

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Speaker 2: The door kicking aspect of it is that we're talking about.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the rescue, the door kicking, I just I don't

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Speaker 3: think it works. It's mowing the grass, you know, because

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Speaker 3: that's where we stop. Then it's it's the raid, it's

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Speaker 3: the rescue. And then we're like Okay, it's over and

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Speaker 3: done with, right, and and the reality of this, this is, uh,

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Speaker 3: this is transnational organized crime. So when I went down

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Speaker 3: there and I went back to my boss and said,

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Speaker 3: this is how we need to support, you know, the

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Speaker 3: Colombians with all these cases with data and analytics. It

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Speaker 3: was like, we can't raise money off of that, right,

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Speaker 3: And he's right, it's hard, it's super hard. It's the

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Speaker 3: worst part of my job. And so I left. I

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Speaker 3: was fed up with the organization. I was fed up

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Speaker 3: with the industry. And I remember calling a bunch of

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Speaker 3: my colleagues and you know, at c suite level in

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Speaker 3: different organizations and pretty much saying like you suck, we suck.

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Speaker 3: This needs to change. And I left for months. I left,

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Speaker 3: I think it was in October, and I think it

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Speaker 3: was December, right around Christmas time of twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 3: and one of the donors from my previous organization reached

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Speaker 3: out and he said, I'm going to fund the startup

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Speaker 3: of your organization because this is the route that it

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Speaker 3: needs to go, and.

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Speaker 2: That's where he wants to go. Yeah, he's probably got funding,

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Speaker 2: and he's like, what am I putting into And if

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Speaker 2: he here's you, and he's like, well, that's not where

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Speaker 2: the money should be going. I wanted to go to

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Speaker 2: the lane that you're going to get into. Absolutely, that's

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Speaker 2: what I'm just getting from, you know, the donor. So

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Speaker 2: good job on.

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Speaker 3: And I mean, and I'm actually going to see this

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Speaker 3: guy tomorrow. You know, this guy is uh, he's just

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Speaker 3: he's in the mission, right, and he wants to find

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Speaker 3: real solutions that are going to stop the problems. And

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Speaker 3: so we started. So I started Traverse Project and it

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Speaker 3: was me and one other guy, and you know, we

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Speaker 3: flopped around. I think it was two weeks after we started,

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Speaker 3: and one of my very first board member said, Hey,

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Speaker 3: you need to come to Houston and do a presentation

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Speaker 3: in front of all these you know, fairly wealthy people.

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Speaker 3: And I was like, I have no idea what I'm

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Speaker 3: even going to present. We're two weeks old. I don't

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Speaker 3: even know what the hell we're going to be doing.

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Speaker 3: And so I went down there present It did the

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Speaker 3: best that we could. It didn't result in much, but

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Speaker 3: you know, it was good practice. And it took us

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Speaker 3: about six months to really figure out how we're going

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Speaker 3: to do things differently and how we were going to

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Speaker 3: not only do things differently, but how we're going to

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Speaker 3: make actual impact and solving the bigger issue. And so

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Speaker 3: you know, we landed on combating this threat through human

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Speaker 3: or through data intelligence. And you know it's not just

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Speaker 3: collecting white paper type research. This is like actionable intelligence

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Speaker 3: that we can give to the frontline defenders of this

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Speaker 3: this problem. Police, you know, international organizations that have sanctioned authority,

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Speaker 3: things like that. But you know, people, I hear one

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Speaker 3: of two things when we're talking about human drafficking from folks.

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Speaker 3: It's like either the the city they live in is

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Speaker 3: the worst city for human drafting, or that doesn't happen here,

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Speaker 3: that happens somewhere else, and neither or true. Right, it

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Speaker 3: literally happens in every city town in America, every city

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Speaker 3: in town in a world. I could take you you

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Speaker 3: and I could jump on a plane right now. You

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Speaker 3: could pick the city anywhere in the world, and I

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Speaker 3: guarantee you we'd have a better than eighty percent chance

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Speaker 3: of finding a Columbian woman for sale.

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Speaker 2: I bet you, I mean, and that's sad. That bet

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Speaker 2: is sad. I don't mean to say I bet you

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Speaker 2: like that's facts. It's just that that's a sad situation.

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Speaker 3: It's a very bad situation.

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Speaker 2: And like you said, it is here too, you know.

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Speaker 2: And even in good old Sandy, Utah where I'm at

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Speaker 2: right where you think, oh, hey, we're the thirty fourth

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Speaker 2: safest city, that might be just the best place to

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Speaker 2: do it, you know, where no one realizes it. It's

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Speaker 2: like it doesn't have to be like the slums. You know,

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Speaker 2: in fact, it probably isn't even the slums. It's people

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Speaker 2: with a lot of money wanting a pet human.

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Speaker 3: Well and a lot of it. So in the you know,

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Speaker 3: there's different categories of human trafficking. My organization focuses in

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Speaker 3: on sex trafficking. Uh, you know, there's labor trafficking, which

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Speaker 3: is a very complex issue that happens all over the

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Speaker 3: world in supply chains to all over the place. Absolutely

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Speaker 3: back to work, showing shoes together, very popular shoes. I

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Speaker 3: don't want to say any names because I don't want

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Speaker 3: to get sued, but showing very popular shoes or very

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Speaker 3: popular clothing together that is manufactured outside of this, you know,

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Speaker 3: our borders. You know, it happens in supply chains and

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Speaker 3: and again it's no fault to the organizations or the

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Speaker 3: companies that that manufacture this or you know that sell

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Speaker 3: this stuff that their brand is on you know, and

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Speaker 3: it's not this one. I can tell you that. But

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Speaker 3: you know, but organizations that their brand is on clothing,

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Speaker 3: it's not their fault. They can only do so much

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Speaker 3: to to fight that, right.

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Speaker 4: So you know, it's everything from let me say this,

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Speaker 4: like a major brand company is saying that they're like

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Speaker 4: one hundred percent you know.

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Speaker 2: Oh, you know, there's these companies out there they say

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Speaker 2: like they're eco friendly, they're one hundred percent you know,

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Speaker 2: sustainable there all their goods come from a certain place,

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Speaker 2: and they may be told that throughout the whole entire

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Speaker 2: process of them evaluating it. But hidden underneath the layer

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Speaker 2: of lie to them is some kid in the coal

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Speaker 2: factory or some body doing that jobs. Yeah, oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: every single avocado, it doesn't there's no machine to do it.

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Speaker 2: So that's a human touch on every single avocado.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, So it's it's uh, there's so we don't even

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Speaker 3: touch labor drafting. It's such a complex.

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Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, so much.

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Speaker 3: But but there is no like when there is a

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Speaker 3: child or there's a woman being forced to have sex

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Speaker 3: for months. Yes, there's no ifsands or butts about it

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Speaker 3: like that is a bad thing. So we really concentrated

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Speaker 3: in on that. So it's you know, we we like

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Speaker 3: to and we're not one of these gimmicky kind of

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Speaker 3: like rescue organizations. We're there to support law enforcement or

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Speaker 3: with actionable intelligence. And the cool thing is, like you know,

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Speaker 3: here in the United States, our law enforcement is extremely capable.

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Speaker 3: Most of them is extremely capable of handling pretty much

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Speaker 3: any crime sets out there. Right If they don't have

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Speaker 3: the capabilities, there's a state agency that has the capabilities.

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Speaker 3: I think they can request, you know, federal resources to

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Speaker 3: come in and help them. So for the most part,

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Speaker 3: there are some areas we'll talk about that in a

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Speaker 3: few minutes when we get into specific programs that we're doing.

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Speaker 3: Sorry you're good, But overseas you have and I mean,

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Speaker 3: if you look at like the current administration that's just

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Speaker 3: come in and how they're stopping stuff at the border

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Speaker 3: right now, and the executive order that that hit drug

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Speaker 3: cartels and is designating them as foreign terrorist organizations, right,

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Speaker 3: we know the Special Operations community knows this law enforcement

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Speaker 3: put community, and he knows this that drug cartels and

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Speaker 3: terror organizations do have connections like we know that perfect.

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Speaker 3: And I can tell you that drug cartels and human

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Speaker 3: trafficking absolutely have connections. And so a lot of these

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Speaker 3: actions that the Trump administration is taking is really good

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Speaker 3: to combat this stuff.

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Speaker 2: I'd like to see him go after modeling agencies.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I'm I don't know specifics about that, but like.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, like we know that, you know, like

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Speaker 2: Epstein and all those guys, they're all you know, and

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Speaker 2: like like P Diddy out there, you know, he's all

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Speaker 2: going through this whole situation, but they all use modeling agencies.

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Speaker 3: Well, and I think that's a great point of some

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Speaker 3: of the domestic trafficking that's happening here in the United States,

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Speaker 3: right when you're dealing with situations like Epstein, where he

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Speaker 3: it's very clear here's.

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Speaker 2: We already know. Yeah, I can say it's not. No,

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Speaker 2: it was.

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Speaker 3: Very clear that you know, the sweetheart deal that he

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Speaker 3: got down in Florida from the US attorney that ended

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Speaker 3: up having to resign out of the first Trump administration.

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Speaker 3: You know, he he it clear that this was sex trafficking. Yes,

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Speaker 3: And and then I mean it just continued and I

365
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Speaker 3: remember hearing that news. I don't remember what year it

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Speaker 3: was when they when he flew into JFK and the

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Speaker 3: FBI met him there and arrested him. I don't remember

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Speaker 3: what year that was, maybe.

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Speaker 2: Like eight or something.

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Speaker 3: It was more recent. I think it was under the

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Speaker 3: first trumpe atministration.

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Speaker 2: Because he got off they like they slapped his hands,

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Speaker 2: didn't make him serve prison and then he went back

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Speaker 2: to doing his normal routine and they captured him again,

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Speaker 2: and we all know what happened at that point.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So that's when that's when I remember hearing that story.

377
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Speaker 3: And it was, you know, the time when he was

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Speaker 3: arrested and killed himself or whatever and federal in the

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Speaker 3: holding facility. But I remember hearing that and being like, finally,

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Speaker 3: finally they're doing something. Who did he piss off that

381
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Speaker 3: this is now happening, right? Oh so and P Diddy? Right,

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Speaker 3: here's another guy who it was that last year that

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Speaker 3: they rated his.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna say, I'm gonna presume he's innocent, okay, because

385
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Speaker 2: we have due process, Okay, but Brow's got a lot

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Speaker 2: of stuff going against him, So I'm just using him

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Speaker 2: as an example of like, hey.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely what I what I find very interesting about the

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Speaker 3: p Didty case is that, and I don't know a

390
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Speaker 3: lot of the details of that, you know, just what's

391
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Speaker 3: been reported on the news. But when you have a

392
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Speaker 3: lot of these famous people in his world that have

393
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Speaker 3: gone to these parties or whatever, and they're coming out

394
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Speaker 3: there saying like, hey, uh, you know, I'm worried because

395
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Speaker 3: I'm afraid he's going to try to detract attention from

396
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Speaker 3: him by making up stories about me. And it's like, hmm,

397
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Speaker 3: that's interesting to me. Right. Why why is the client

398
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Speaker 3: list not been released from Epstein?

399
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Speaker 2: Right? And also why do we not think that P

400
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Speaker 2: Diddy has turned federal witness?

401
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Speaker 3: I mean that there are so many insane to me,

402
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,439
Speaker 3: you know what I mean? And and you know, so

403
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,439
Speaker 3: you know, we we can we can get into the

404
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,439
Speaker 3: craziness of these type of well it's.

405
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Speaker 2: It's it's that's all. It's all sex trafficking, you know,

406
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Speaker 2: that's just here in the US, you know, like Americans.

407
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Speaker 3: Not only Americans. I mean, Prince Andrew was, of course

408
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Speaker 3: that the US Attorney at the Southern District of New

409
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Speaker 3: York wanted to speak to Prince Andrew about this Epstein case,

410
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Speaker 3: of course, and he did.

411
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Speaker 2: Not come right, No, he just paid twelve million pounds

412
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Speaker 2: to stop the story because he was innocent. So twelve

413
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Speaker 2: million pounds, I think that's what he paid.

414
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Speaker 3: I don't want to I don't want to pass judgment

415
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Speaker 3: on anybody, because we live in a great photos.

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Speaker 2: There's photos of him with the girl did she's seventeen.

417
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Speaker 3: I totally get it. I actually interviewed one of Epstein's victims.

418
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Speaker 3: You just made her on a call for three hours,

419
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Speaker 3: and I mean the names that came out of I

420
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Speaker 3: don't want to mention any names. I don't want to

421
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Speaker 3: get sued, but the names that came out of her

422
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 3: mouth that were that she encountered on the island or

423
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:12,679
Speaker 3: in different you know situations, I mean, will blow your mind.

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Speaker 3: And so it's crazy.

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Speaker 2: Right on the list. I'm not on that list.

426
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Speaker 3: I'm not.

427
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Speaker 2: But there's people who I really liked. When I found

428
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Speaker 2: out that they visited that island, and I was just

429
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Speaker 2: like wow. I watched all of his movies. I used

430
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Speaker 2: to watch her talk show. I used to you know this,

431
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Speaker 2: that and the other with all of these different people

432
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 2: who well.

433
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,639
Speaker 3: I want to be clear, like I don't personally, I

434
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,639
Speaker 3: don't think that everybody who went to that island was

435
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:38,200
Speaker 3: involved in nonsense.

436
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 2: But yeah, like Bill Clinton, Bill Clinton wasn't involved in nonsense.

437
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,639
Speaker 2: Eight times, That's what it was. That's what we're gonna say.

438
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 2: You're gonna say he wasn't involved in nonsense. Think about

439
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:50,920
Speaker 2: everybody that was there for that guy. Everybody that went

440
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 2: there for Epstein on his private plane which is still

441
00:22:54,520 --> 00:23:00,159
Speaker 2: actively flying, well was until president. It's crazy, just the

442
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,400
Speaker 2: circle of influence. And now you know, the president's been

443
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,119
Speaker 2: re elected and put into power, and he's got everybody

444
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 2: in like the DJ and everybody out there doing feelers

445
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 2: and just doing whatever for the country quote unquote. And

446
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 2: here you are trying to do the right thing for

447
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,399
Speaker 2: people who are literally being human trafficked, and I feel

448
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 2: like there might be people trying to like thwart you

449
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:26,159
Speaker 2: from finding the real information. You know, you gotta be so.

450
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 3: I'll say, I truly do believe that President Trump is

451
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:36,360
Speaker 3: the first president that has focused in on human trafficking.

452
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,400
Speaker 3: Ivanka Trump when she was in a senior advisor whatever

453
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 3: her position was at the White House, this is a

454
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,920
Speaker 3: passion of her. She was the daughter correct, so her

455
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,360
Speaker 3: and and her husband Jared are very passionate about this.

456
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 3: President Trump, during his first administration created a White House

457
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 3: Task Force on human Trafficking, and he also put somebody

458
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 3: at the White House as the human tree ating for

459
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 3: lack of a better term, bizarre right or or coordinator

460
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 3: of all efforts. That is the first time that's happened

461
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 3: in history. So there are certain presidents that come in

462
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 3: and put this much money towards human drafting, and then

463
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 3: there are people that come in and start just packing,

464
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 3: you know, doing that layered approach to combating this problem.

465
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 3: Same with governors, right, but there are a lot of

466
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 3: governors out there that just put like they throw the

467
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,680
Speaker 3: kitchen sink at it, right, everything at it. And then

468
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 3: there's there's governors that are like, okay.

469
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like here in Utah, we had a company that

470
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 2: kind of like folded within.

471
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 3: Oh no, we can talk about that.

472
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 2: You know, there's a company here, a lot. I don't

473
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 2: really know much except that, yeah, yeah, you know, and

474
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 2: it folded from within here. You know, I don't know

475
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 2: why you got to drive a Camaro with your logo

476
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 2: all around I fifteen by my house. You know, what's

477
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 2: the Camaro doing? You know? It's like, where'd that come from?

478
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 2: I would see that driving and you have to understand,

479
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 2: we're passionate towards that cause as humans, like, we don't

480
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 2: want others to be suffered. You know, my father was

481
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 2: a Green Beret, so his model was Dale Presso Lieber,

482
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 2: which is to free the oppressed right. And so I'm

483
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 2: a big believer in freedom of choice and the freedom

484
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 2: to move. And if you want to do something, you

485
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 2: do it, but you don't have to make me do it.

486
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 2: That's freedom of choice. So you want to get a tattooed,

487
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 2: go get one, but don't give me your tattoo unless

488
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 2: I want it. So I just to understand how donating

489
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 2: money to a cause that's supposed to be just and good.

490
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 2: And then I see this guy, I'd rather see him

491
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:36,880
Speaker 2: driving around like a Ford truck or something that could

492
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 2: go off road, I don't know, not a Camaro with

493
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 2: a logo all over it.

494
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,160
Speaker 3: You know, Like, I don't know the specific organization you're

495
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:48,199
Speaker 3: referring to. There is out of Salt Lake there was

496
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:56,120
Speaker 3: a probably the largest counter human trafficking organization. Okay, I'm

497
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 3: touching my nose.

498
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 2: I'm like, you're on the money. Yeah, I'm touching my nose.

499
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 2: If you're listening and you're not in the video, I'm

500
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:02,120
Speaker 2: like ding ding ding ding ding.

501
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, so there was this Yeah, exactly, well, and

502
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 3: I don't mind talking about it because I do want

503
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 3: to make it. You know, this year, you're going to

504
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 3: hear any podcasts and I'm on any you know, interviews

505
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 3: I do. I'm going to make sure that I informed

506
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 3: donors of what they should be looking at, what they

507
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 3: shouldn't be looking at us.

508
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 2: Right.

509
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 3: So, you know, the worst part of my job is

510
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 3: raising money to combat human trafficking. It's the worst part

511
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,399
Speaker 3: of my job. I hate going after people and saying,

512
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 3: please give me your hard earned money. And this this

513
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 3: nonprofit industry is the only industry in the world that

514
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 3: we can do everything right. We can, you know, have

515
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:47,120
Speaker 3: the most successful programs out there. It's so go bankrupt, right,

516
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 3: It's it's not like our our money generation is not

517
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 3: based off of how great we're doing the things that

518
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 3: we're saying we're doing. It's based off the generosity of

519
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 3: our fellow man, right, or or corporations that are doing

520
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 3: So it's really frustrating to me when organizations come out

521
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 3: and they say, hey, we're doing this, and they give

522
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 3: the donor this sex appeal. Right, I'm using air quotations

523
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 3: if you're listening of this industry, right, everybody, every donor

524
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,439
Speaker 3: wants to feel like they're part of the mission. And

525
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 3: I get that they want to see kids being rescued,

526
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 3: Navy seals busting open doors. And this is nothing against

527
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 3: you know, the soft community. It's just it's not our

528
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 3: approach to do the rescue mentality, right. But this organization

529
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 3: that you're specifically talking about, there was a movie that

530
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 3: came out in twenty twenty three, big blockbuster movie that

531
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 3: was in all the theaters I think domestically, made about

532
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 3: one hundred and eighty million dollars, which was supposed to

533
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 3: be based off of the founder of the organization you're

534
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 3: talking about in Salt Lake, and it's called The Sound

535
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 3: of Freedom. Right, everybody asks me about this, I can

536
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 3: tell you we are not a part of that organization.

537
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 3: We have nothing to do with that organization. And in fact,

538
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:04,400
Speaker 3: that organ oranization's board of directors fired the founder two

539
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 3: weeks before that movie came out. And it's because there

540
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 3: are allegations from I believe eight different women, and you

541
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 3: can google Tim Ballard and New York Times and you

542
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 3: can read all of the allegations. It's pretty horrific shit

543
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 3: if it proves to be true.

544
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 2: And right, that's jacked up too, because again, Austin, I

545
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 2: want to believe in what you're saying to you, Like

546
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 2: here if I had thirty bucks to donate, and again,

547
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 2: let me piggyback on what you just said about, like

548
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 2: profitability in this industry that you're doing. I run businesses

549
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 2: as an entrepreneur, and I do retail. I buy a product,

550
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 2: I mark it up a little bit, I sell it

551
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 2: for that maybe give a discount on it, and I

552
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 2: take that profit and I put it back into it.

553
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 2: What you're doing is you're not really getting any money

554
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 2: back now. This money just goes right into the situation.

555
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,719
Speaker 2: And so that's where a donor comes into play, because

556
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 2: it's not profitability you're after. You're just after sustainability of

557
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 2: the mission so they can continue to do the missions

558
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 2: consistently with funding. Otherwise you know there's no funding, yes exactly.

559
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 2: And so that's where these donors that you're getting pulled

560
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 2: into two weeks into your career are eager and chomping

561
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 2: at the bit to donate, and like, are you the

562
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 2: right guy to donate to? Is you sure? Is the

563
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:25,719
Speaker 2: is the you know, Traverse Project the place that we

564
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 2: need to put our funds.

565
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 3: And absolutely so when you have a situation that happened

566
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 3: with UH, with Tim Ballard in his formal organization, it

567
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 3: undermines trust in the entire industry. And and just to

568
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 3: be clear, we knew that there was i'll be, i'll stay,

569
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 3: I'll keep myself out of a courtroom. There was smoke. Yes,

570
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 3: it's that individual for many many years before all this

571
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 3: stuff came out, and I personally always said, something is

572
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 3: going to happen with this because they were promoting that

573
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 3: they were involved with things that they were not involved with.

574
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 3: And honestly, it's donor fraud, right. If you're telling somebody

575
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 3: that you're doing something and you're not doing it, you're

576
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 3: you're misleading, and it's the criminal offense to do that.

577
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 2: Right. I've talked to those guys before, several of their

578
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 2: cadre during promotions and like things that we did donations

579
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 2: back in the day when everything was like like kind

580
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 2: of level or it seemed like it. And then yeah, yeah, yeah,

581
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 2: I mean, and let me just be clear, like we

582
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 2: would so I do war games on a large scale

583
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 2: here in Utah. You know, two or three four hundred

584
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 2: people show up. Wow. So what we did is we said, hey,

585
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 2: everybody pays twenty five bucks and all proceeds go to

586
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 2: ex organization here Salt Lake City. This is like twenty ten. Yeah, okay, it's.

587
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 3: Probably a little bit later than that if it was

588
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 3: this organization, but yes.

589
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 2: It's the same organization on a hundred percent y. Yeah. Yeah,

590
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 2: we were helping them out. We did four different annual events,

591
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 2: like we did one one on one. I mean we

592
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 2: probably donated. You know, everybody in the community would pay

593
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 2: twenty five bucks, so four hundred people times twenty five bucks,

594
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 2: and then they would show up to the desert where

595
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 2: we were wargaming to collect the check and they would

596
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 2: just split. They say, hey, thank you everybody. We can't

597
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 2: tell you what we're gonna be doing, but we're gonna

598
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 2: be doing stuff with this check. So when I'm driving

599
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 2: up and down the freeway and I see that Camaro

600
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 2: fly by me, I am just like, bro, no way,

601
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 2: no way that our four years of annual donations to

602
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 2: you affords you to buy that zeal one Camaro and

603
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 2: wrap it well.

604
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 3: And it gets even worse, right like the organization from

605
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 3: that movie. And I could be wrong, but I'm pretty

606
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 3: sure it was one hundred and eighty million dollar gross

607
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 3: for the movie domestically. None of that money went back

608
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 3: to the organization. No, so they fired Yeah, they fired him, right,

609
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 3: They brought in a whole new board, brought in a

610
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 3: new CEO. I'll leave it there.

611
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 2: It's just a little late, you know. It's like, you know,

612
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 2: change your name, go to the Z Corporation or something. Man,

613
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 2: stop being black, stop calling yourself blackwater, go to Alphabet group.

614
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 2: I don't know what to tell you. It's like, are

615
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 2: you guys this guy's no, no, no, we're alphabet group.

616
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, what do I know?

617
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 3: No? Uh, you know, I don't want to I don't

618
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 3: want to put a current organization.

619
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 2: We won't. We won't. Let me ask you a question.

620
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 2: Let me ask you something different though. Let's talk about

621
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 2: the fall of Afghanistan for a second. All right, let's

622
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 2: talk about human trafficking during that situation. So I've got

623
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 2: a lot of just that.

624
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 3: It was the entire time we were there, I mean.

625
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 2: Correct, correct, But like specifically I had acquaintances right coming

626
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 2: to me buying five plate carriers. I'm like, why did

627
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 2: he fight plate carriers? You're not playing airsoft war games.

628
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 2: And he's like, I'm going somewhere else and doing something else.

629
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, I see. And then I

630
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,239
Speaker 2: find out like interpreters are locked behind enemy lines and

631
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 2: they're Afghani and they're interpreters, and they want to go

632
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 2: get their turf out and their interpreter to rescue them, right,

633
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 2: and to steal them out of Afghanistan and then bring

634
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 2: him to America. And I'm like, well, here you are

635
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 2: saying one thing like don't traffic, but then you're going

636
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 2: and doing the traffic. Yeah, I mean, so how do

637
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 2: you justify? And then I asked him, I said, Okay,

638
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 2: let's say you got your guy out and you got

639
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 2: him into a different country, and you smuggled him out

640
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 2: because you have to smuggle these people out of that Afghanistan.

641
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 2: So now you're literally going in and smuggling out somebody

642
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 2: and getting them out. A friend of mine, he's former

643
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 2: sas he was captured, they beat his feet for like

644
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 2: three or four weeks. I interviewed him on the show

645
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 2: as well, but he got four hundred people out.

646
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 3: Wow.

647
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 2: So then I said to my guy, I said, what

648
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 2: if that same interpreter escaped persecution on his own, made

649
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,959
Speaker 2: it to the Mexican border. Because here's what I get. Oh,

650
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 2: they deserve to come to here because they fought with us.

651
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 2: Oh we should have them in the because they're from here.

652
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 2: And I'm like, well, but technically they're Afghani. Technically they

653
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 2: just did a job that they chose to do and

654
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 2: that's the turf that they deal with. So what if

655
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 2: you're interpreter in Afghanistan snuck out because everything was going down,

656
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 2: got out and said I'm gonna make my way to

657
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,439
Speaker 2: San Diego. Yes, Sandra Sidral border bro, and I'm gonna

658
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 2: come over that way. Does that person still get to

659
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 2: come over that border? Does that person still get the

660
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 2: I mean, where do we draw the line on who's

661
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:31,399
Speaker 2: coming in and who's not.

662
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 3: So, you know, I've done a bunch of podcasts and

663
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 3: interviews where kind of the immigration versus trafficking issues come up,

664
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 3: and you know a lot of our politicians like to

665
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 3: use illegal immigration and you'll just kind of loop it

666
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 3: in with with trafficking, and it's just not it's not factual. Right,

667
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 3: there are there is, there is illegal immigration, and then

668
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 3: there is trafficking. And you can have a case of

669
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 3: someone who's being smuggled across the border. That turns into trafficking,

670
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 3: and I can explain how that works, but uh, you know,

671
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 3: specifically with Afghanistan, I think the difference would be, you know,

672
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:18,919
Speaker 3: all those guys.

673
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 2: Would would the interpreter and his family be able to

674
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 2: come to or just the interpreter, you know what I mean?

675
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 3: Like and so those are those are those are I mean,

676
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 3: those are big issues that so so I think the

677
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 3: difference is with with trafficking a human being. My interpretation

678
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 3: would be that you are doing a bad thing to

679
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,839
Speaker 3: make money. And I don't believe that those guys that

680
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 3: were helping get people out were doing a bad thing

681
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 3: for money. I think they were trying to do They

682
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 3: were taking a really shit situation and pulling people out.

683
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 3: Like I had terps that they're still there, right, I

684
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 3: just had one of my terps. I think it was

685
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 3: the last year who just got approved by the c

686
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 3: I S I think is the agency Custom Immigrant whatever

687
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,839
Speaker 3: it is, Citizen Immigrant what whatever. That just got proved

688
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 3: to stay in the United States, which is great. He

689
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 3: came in on a SI visa. But you know, I

690
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 3: think that that was just a really bad situation and

691
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 3: I wouldn't. I wouldn't necessarily say that that's trafficking human being,

692
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 3: but because they're not doing it for for bad.

693
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:27,839
Speaker 2: Intent, right, but it is trafficking a human being, and

694
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 2: you are trafficking a not national human being into America

695
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 2: to save them from persecution in another country, which is

696
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 2: what we're saying at the border right now is there's

697
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 2: a lot of people trying to escape political persecution, you know,

698
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 2: sexual trafficking persecution, and they're trying to get out, and like,

699
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 2: where do we draw the line on who do you who?

700
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 2: Who's who's coming in and who's not, Who's who's deciding that?

701
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 2: And why are guys that are against human trafficking okay

702
00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 2: with bringing those guys back, but not I'm justin.

703
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 3: And I think the situation now may be a lot

704
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 3: of those people that came in illegally, right, regardless of

705
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 3: whether they came in from Al Salvador, Afghanistan. And the

706
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 3: reason I mean, I think that most people come to

707
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 3: the United States through you know, whatever the whatever the

708
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 3: term is now that we're using undocumented, illegal, whatever the

709
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 3: term is that we're using.

710
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 2: Probably undocumented, you know, yeah, I think undocumented because you know,

711
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 2: the guy that I know who's from there. It is.

712
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 3: Right, But like you said, it is it is illegal

713
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 3: to come across our borders without going through the process, correct,

714
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 3: And so it is you are committing a crime when

715
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 3: you come across our borders. So I think a lot

716
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 3: of those people, regardless of the reasons they got in here,

717
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 3: it came to the I think a lot of those

718
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 3: people are going to be deported here under the current

719
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 3: administration unless they set up some sort of thing that

720
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 3: you know, kind of we don't work with any like,

721
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 3: we don't touch any of that stuff. Well, like, like

722
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 3: I said, what we focus in on is sex traffiing.

723
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 3: And so where where an illegal immigration issue can then

724
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 3: become a trafficking issue is and it's probably about ten

725
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:15,800
Speaker 3: percent of illegal immigration that turns to some sort of trafficking.

726
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 3: Is coyotes that also work for cartels are trafficking people

727
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 3: over and it costs money to do that, right, you know,

728
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 3: five ten thousand, fifteen thousand US to do this. And

729
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 3: so when you have a child that's coming across, how

730
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 3: did that child pay five thousand dollars to fifteen thousand

731
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 3: dollars US to get across? So it becomes like a

732
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 3: situation where don't worry, We'll take care of it on

733
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 3: the other side. And then all of a sudden, we

734
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 3: have three hundred thousand kids that go missing. And you know,

735
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 3: one of my biggest issues before was under the first

736
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:54,359
Speaker 3: Trump administration, we were doing DNA testing and then they

737
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 3: stopped that under the Biden administration. So if you you

738
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 3: came in with a child that has a different last

739
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 3: name than you, and there's no I mean, how do

740
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 3: we check to see if your family or how how

741
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 3: do we check any of that?

742
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:10,760
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, I mean, like you know, I mean, how

743
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 2: do you immigrate here? You know, like the Statute of

744
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 2: Liberty's scrolls, you know that she holds Ellis Island there,

745
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 2: how do you That's.

746
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 3: That's an immigration issue that we don't we don't focus

747
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 3: in on that at all.

748
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 2: It's like the Irish were totally trafficked, you know, into

749
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,359
Speaker 2: chicken factories, and you know, when they first arrived, they

750
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 2: were considered like just blah, you know, and they were

751
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 2: totally you know, I mean.

752
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 3: We have a lot, Yeah, there was a lot of

753
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 3: indentured servitude here in the United States when it came

754
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 3: to Irish immigrants that came through and there was a

755
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:44,879
Speaker 3: lot of during the slavery days of the United States, right,

756
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 3: that there were a lot of indentured servants that were white.

757
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 2: Right, I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. We have a

758
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 2: bad track record America itself.

759
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,359
Speaker 3: Well, I think the world. I think the world. I mean,

760
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,879
Speaker 3: if you look at you know, not to get into

761
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 3: you know, the.

762
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 2: Like slavery, Right, that's we had.

763
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 3: We had five hundred thousand, roughly five hundred thousand slaves

764
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 3: here in the United States, and Brazil had thirteen million. Right,

765
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 3: So you know, the entire world suffered from this issue.

766
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 3: I'm not making an excuse by any means. The entire

767
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 3: world suffered from this problem. You know, Great Britain colonized

768
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 3: half the planet and.

769
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,800
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, dude, Iraq, as we know it was redrawn

770
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 2: by the Ottoman Empire. It should be cause Kurdistan.

771
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:34,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, the Persian Empires, everybody in the Romans, everybody had slaves,

772
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 3: you know. And I don't think sexual orientation or color

773
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 3: or anything had anything to do with it.

774
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:43,359
Speaker 2: Hey, the pyramids don't build themselves, bro.

775
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 3: Right, right, right, Okay, we aliens, I think.

776
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,399
Speaker 2: Oh I got to do that with the aliens, right,

777
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 2: And I only want to smile through this because it's

778
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 2: a tough conversation to have it and it's real, you know.

779
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:00,040
Speaker 2: And again, aliens are not I'm sure you know. The

780
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:01,760
Speaker 2: pyramids don't build themselves.

781
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,320
Speaker 3: No, no, for sure, right, And the fields.

782
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,240
Speaker 2: Didn't get picked by themselves, the plantations on the tobacco

783
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 2: fields didn't get picked by themselves. The chains that people

784
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 2: were made to wear around their necks that weighed like

785
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,280
Speaker 2: twenty pounds or over their lips.

786
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:20,760
Speaker 3: And today there are more slaves in modern slavery today.

787
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 2: Jeez, I don't realize it or what it's like, just

788
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 2: like now.

789
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 3: I mean, they're age fifty million slaves across the world,

790
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 3: and that covers so twenty roughly twenty eight million in

791
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 3: the labor trafficking category, which then the subcategories are organ harvesting,

792
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 3: sex trafficking, agriculture, labor trafficking, you know all those things, right,

793
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 3: and then there's the remaining is like arranged marriages, which

794
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 3: is a form of slavery.

795
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:49,399
Speaker 2: Right.

796
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 3: You take some child who's being forced to marry a

797
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:58,840
Speaker 3: guy our age, right, and yeahs, I don't.

798
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 2: Know, let me tell you something about Utah. Okay, fourteen

799
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,280
Speaker 2: years old, these kids are getting married off in the

800
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 2: FLDS the Fundamental Latter day Saints. So there's the Latter

801
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 2: Day Saints aka the Mormons, and then there's the FLDS

802
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,720
Speaker 2: who never agreed with changing the doctrine of the Church

803
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 2: of multiple wives, et cetera. And so they kind of

804
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 2: live on the outskirts. But those outskirts are now encroached

805
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,840
Speaker 2: with people building houses around them because they looking for land.

806
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 2: And now they have populations in the solid valley that

807
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 2: are just these people are rich. The Poligaments that had

808
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 2: the property they sold it to developers. Now they have

809
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 2: huge houses for like twenty kids with one door. You

810
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 2: see this, I think you're.

811
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 3: Bringing up a really important thing to kind of segue into.

812
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 3: At least state laws change. So one of the biggest

813
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 3: issues that we deal with in human trafficking is that

814
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 3: nobody is saying the same thing. The definitions are different.

815
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 3: You know, there are some states here in the US,

816
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 3: so at federal law level, nobody under the age of

817
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 3: eighteen can consent to a commercial sex act right. So

818
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 3: that means regardless where I live, not too far away

819
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 3: from you know, I have an airport and I live

820
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 3: in you know, close to the nation's capital, and one

821
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 3: of the capital one of the airports here has a

822
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 3: hotel district, and there are teenagers that are prostitutes right

823
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 3: here too, and the county police say, well, they want

824
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 3: to do that, And it's like that a fifteen year

825
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 3: old wants to go do this, and it doesn't make

826
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 3: a difference. If they do want to go do this,

827
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 3: it's against federal law. Federal law says nobody under the

828
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 3: eighteen under eighteen can consent to a commercial sex act, right,

829
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 3: so that is trafficking by definition. But then there are

830
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 3: places here in the US where you have police departments

831
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 3: arresting prostitutes, and that's kind of like arresting the crack

832
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:50,280
Speaker 3: addict for having an addiction. Right. It does not solve

833
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 3: the war on drugs. This is not solving the trafficking

834
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 3: issue by arresting prostitutes. And I don't remember the exact number,

835
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 3: but it was greater than seventy percent, and it essentially

836
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 3: that's greater than seventy percent of prostitutes at some point

837
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,839
Speaker 3: when they got into this career field, that they were

838
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 3: forced into this career field, right, and that is trafficking, right.

839
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:16,360
Speaker 3: So seventy percent or greater of prostitutes are victims of

840
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 3: human trafficking. So you've got some police departments that are

841
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 3: still arresting prostitutes and calling it a human trafficking arrest.

842
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 3: It's not solving any issue. You've got a and I'll

843
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 3: just use this example with most of my talks. You've

844
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:34,839
Speaker 3: got a situation where, like, you know, a sixty five

845
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:38,840
Speaker 3: year old man loses his wife to cancer, he gets lonely.

846
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 3: At some point, he goes and solicits an escort. Right,

847
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 3: And let's just say for the sake of this conversation

848
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 3: that that escort is works for herself, is not being trafficked.

849
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 3: She is, you know, does this because she wants to

850
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 3: do this.

851
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 2: Full choice choice right, full choice yes.

852
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 3: And if that, if that sixty five year old man

853
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 3: is arrested for that, he gets caught in active of

854
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 3: soliciting this. In some states he's been he's being arrested

855
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 3: for a human trafficking related offense. Right, And it's like,

856
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:13,240
Speaker 3: this is insane to me. Let's start, let's start really

857
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 3: like digging into the problem. Let's and I'll give you

858
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 3: a great example. So we were given a case. We

859
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 3: are based in Houston, Texas, even though none of my

860
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 3: all of my folks are work remotely, but we're we're

861
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 3: a Houston, Texas based organization and we were given a

862
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 3: case of a convicted sex trafficker and I don't remember

863
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 3: the exact charge, but it was sex trafficking by force

864
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 3: or something like that. Right. Uh. He lives in the

865
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 3: suburbs or in the suburban area of Houston. Again, registered

866
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 3: sex offender because he's been convicted of sex trafficking by force,

867
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:57,239
Speaker 3: convicted felon. And so we found we got we get

868
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:00,359
Speaker 3: this case and it had one victim that we knew

869
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 3: of h and if I remember correctly, it was in

870
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 3: Florida where she was. He's in Houston, Texas. And my

871
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 3: team digs into this case and finds out now there's

872
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 3: eleven victims throughout the United States and he is making

873
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 3: over a million dollars a year, like over a million.

874
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 3: But see that we our generation called it pimps, right, Yeah,

875
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 3: this guy is a human trafficker. He is by coercion

876
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 3: or force or any number of other means. This is

877
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 3: what happens when when I think the average American looks

878
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:36,359
Speaker 3: at these girls and says they're just prostitutes or they're

879
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 3: just escorts. That's not the case because some of these

880
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 3: girls feared this guy. And so that's coercion when you're

881
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 3: forcing somebody to go do this.

882
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'll tell you the reason why I also

883
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 2: pick pick on, you know, talent agents kind of you know,

884
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 2: is I knew a guy back in the early late

885
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 2: nineties in my acting career. He started up his own agency.

886
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,240
Speaker 2: He wanted to represent a lot actors here in the state.

887
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 2: We were all friends with them. No one thought nothing

888
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 2: of it. He was older than us. But you know,

889
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 2: some of the girls would say, like when they were

890
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 2: one on one in his office, it became more like, oh, hey,

891
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:11,800
Speaker 2: you want this part, or you don't want this part?

892
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 2: You know what? No, No, But that's that is exactly

893
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 2: another situation. It's it's preying on there's multiple people. They

894
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 2: want to be an actress or an actor. It goes boy, girl,

895
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 2: whatever you want. Okay, the whole color spectrum of a rainbow.

896
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:31,719
Speaker 2: See I got that in there. So I'm gonna say,

897
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say right now, okay, So

898
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 2: you know, you never know whose style is what when

899
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 2: you see him to your face. It's one way, but

900
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:40,959
Speaker 2: in the behind the closed doors, and so this guy

901
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 2: got a really bad reputation. And that's why I'm like, wow,

902
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:47,279
Speaker 2: you know, I see these guys, you know, like who

903
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 2: we were talking about earlier in the show, who has

904
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 2: his own island, they had a modeling agency. It's just

905
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 2: kind of like, hey, come to us. You know, the

906
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 2: other guy who's locked up trying to prove his innocence,

907
00:47:55,600 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 2: did he modeling agency? Ask do you remember the.

908
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 3: Movie Trafficked with Michael Douglas and Cather Zada Jones.

909
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 2: I think so really long movie.

910
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 3: He Michael Douglas plays the Drugs Are for the United

911
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 3: States Catherine Zeta Jones. I think her husband was like

912
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 3: a massive drug trafficker and was arrested and she took

913
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 3: over the business. Anyway, in the movie, Michael Douglas's daughter

914
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 3: gets addicted to I think it was heroin if I

915
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 3: remember correctly, And this is the Drugs Are of the

916
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 3: United States, right, a presidential appointed member of the cabinet, right,

917
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 3: and she ends up becoming a victim of human trafficking. Now,

918
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:39,319
Speaker 3: when we when we were all watching that movie back

919
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:41,839
Speaker 3: in the nineties or early two thousand, whatever it was,

920
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 3: nobody looked at it like that. They were just like,

921
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 3: here's some girl that's prostituting herself to defeat her addiction,

922
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 3: right right, And it's like, no, this is this is

923
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 3: where where we're wrong.

924
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 2: Right.

925
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 3: If you watch a movie, watch the part where Michael

926
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 3: Douglas goes and bangs on this guy's door in the

927
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 3: middle of you know, you know, lower end neighborhood or

928
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 3: you know, lower income neighborhood, and you know this guy

929
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 3: who ups to his door and it's having sex with

930
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 3: the girl. You know that somebody is having sex with

931
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,879
Speaker 3: the girl for so she can get her fixed. It's

932
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 3: all coercion, right, And so that's where But if she

933
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 3: was arrested, right, it would have been solicitation of prostitution

934
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 3: in most states. So when when I was talking a

935
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:30,360
Speaker 3: minute ago, and I said, we're all saying different things.

936
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 3: All the laws are different. You know, in our industry,

937
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 3: the new term for child pornography, we're not. We don't

938
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 3: say child pornography anymore. We say se sam child sexual

939
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 3: abuse material. Because the movement was that, or the kind

940
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 3: of the push behind it was that saying child pornography

941
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:53,279
Speaker 3: implied that there was consent there. And I get it.

942
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 3: But all federal loss is child pornography, right, So when

943
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 3: somebody is charged with something, it's child pornography, not ceesam.

944
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:02,840
Speaker 3: So we're trying to like change all this stuff and

945
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 3: we're not even talking to each other. This industry, you know,

946
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:11,720
Speaker 3: is so siloed when it comes to nonprofits, and this,

947
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 3: this crime set is the only crime set that nonprofits

948
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 3: play such a big role in. I mean, we're we're

949
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,799
Speaker 3: doing we we are we are NGOs, we are non

950
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 3: governmental organizations, meaning we are doing a government function or

951
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:27,839
Speaker 3: a function that should be reserved for the government, and

952
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 3: right and right.

953
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:32,799
Speaker 2: So I'm just kind of shocked still that you're so right.

954
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 2: It should be totally should be. And I'm sure there's

955
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:37,279
Speaker 2: some kind of a team, but it's only if they

956
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 2: stumble on it. I don't know if they're like like right.

957
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 3: So, on a federal level, right, you have the FBI

958
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 3: and Department Homeland Security, Homeland Security Investigations, right, which is

959
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 3: similar to the FBI, except HSI is mandated by Congress

960
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 3: when they were created to do smuggling, trafficking, all of

961
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 3: this stuff. Right, So this is the mandated agency that

962
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 3: should be handling child you know, any human trafficking cases

963
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 3: domestically or internationally, and then you have the FBI, who's

964
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:13,759
Speaker 3: they just dabble in everything, right and so and so.

965
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:17,719
Speaker 3: But there was recently a memo that came out under

966
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:19,680
Speaker 3: the previous administration. There was a memo that came out

967
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:25,439
Speaker 3: that made human trafficking cases so hard for the case

968
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:29,040
Speaker 3: agents to investigate that essentially they got to almost and

969
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:31,839
Speaker 3: I'm not speaking for the FBI obviously, but almost got

970
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 3: out of the business of human trafficking cases. And so

971
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 3: they've moved into so HSI. The problem with them is

972
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 3: they aren't funded the way the FBI is. So you know,

973
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 3: when you're talking about the FBI, they have more or

974
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:48,839
Speaker 3: less of one to one ratio of analyst agents. When

975
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 3: you're talking about HSI, DEA, or you know a lot

976
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 3: of the other agencies, it's like one analyst twenty four

977
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:57,440
Speaker 3: agents or twenty six agents or twenty two agents. When

978
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 3: you get into the state level law enforce it's like

979
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 3: one to fifty investor you know, investigators. You get down

980
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 3: to the local level and it's like maybe one at

981
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 3: the whole department. So one of the great things that

982
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:11,880
Speaker 3: we do it traversus when we partner with or you know,

983
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:15,320
Speaker 3: with law enforcement. Is we kind of bridge a gap

984
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:19,239
Speaker 3: because we are an organization full of analysts and we

985
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 3: have access to just unbelievable amounts of data that we

986
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:25,319
Speaker 3: just kind of look at in different ways. So we

987
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 3: take all kinds of data and we can get into

988
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 3: that a second, but so we can provide once we

989
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 3: kind of layer that data together in you know, old

990
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 3: school cop work, right yea, our binoculars, camera, notepad, stale

991
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:41,760
Speaker 3: doughnuts and coffee and telling bad you know, dad jokes

992
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 3: to each other for twelve hours. We don't. We don't

993
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:47,799
Speaker 3: do that. Like my guys sit on a laptop and

994
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:51,480
Speaker 3: they can pretty much see all of this stuff from data,

995
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 3: So we can without getting into the secret sauce too

996
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 3: much publicly here, but we have access to commercial data

997
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:05,240
Speaker 3: and telemetry data and all of the good stuff.

998
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 2: Right yeah, yeah, we have.

999
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 3: Access to this. Law enforcement should have access to this,

1000
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 3: but they don't have the analyst to be able to

1001
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 3: do it, and it's so expensive that law enforcement agencies

1002
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:19,919
Speaker 3: just can't afford this stuff. It's donated to us because

1003
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 3: we're a nonprofit, which is where that kind of non

1004
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:27,720
Speaker 3: governmental organization aspect really does help law enforcement.

1005
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 2: Yes, but yeah, you don't really have a leash on

1006
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:32,359
Speaker 2: you like they do. You know, they're like, hey, man,

1007
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:34,759
Speaker 2: I can't go after this because it's not in my jurisdiction.

1008
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 2: You're just like, well, I'll go across the street.

1009
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 3: Well see what we specifically do. You know, a minute

1010
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 3: ago we talked about how siloed everything is, sure and

1011
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:46,400
Speaker 3: how everybody's kind of recreating the same things. Right, we

1012
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:49,239
Speaker 3: stuck in our lane and we said this data intelligence

1013
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 3: is our lane. We're not going to recreate this. When

1014
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:53,360
Speaker 3: I can recreate this. If we need this or need that,

1015
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 3: we're going to partner with organizations that do that really well.

1016
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:58,920
Speaker 3: But the one thing that does apply to us is

1017
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 3: that some of our evidence is used for court cases

1018
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 3: or should be used for court cases.

1019
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 2: Right, because you're getting it right.

1020
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:09,400
Speaker 3: And we're turning it over to law enforcement. So we

1021
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 3: have to be very careful about not because me, as

1022
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:15,920
Speaker 3: a private citizen, my organization is a private organization, we

1023
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:19,880
Speaker 3: alone cannot violate your Fourth Amendment rights because only the

1024
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 3: government can violate your Fourth Amendment rights. However, if we

1025
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:26,799
Speaker 3: partner with law enforcement, then there's an argument to be

1026
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:29,280
Speaker 3: made that we are acting as agents for law enforcement,

1027
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:32,279
Speaker 3: and so then the rules do apply to us. So

1028
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 3: that's where it's really good to have an ex cop

1029
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 3: who was an executive that says, no, this is the

1030
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:40,800
Speaker 3: rules that we have to stick with. Right, So even us,

1031
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:44,239
Speaker 3: we just can't do this vigilanting stuff that a lot

1032
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:48,280
Speaker 3: of these organizations that you see raising money are doing.

1033
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 3: It is not leading to a solution. It's leading to

1034
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 3: make you feel good. But at the end of the day,

1035
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:56,239
Speaker 3: when somebody, when a bad guy who is trafficking a

1036
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:58,440
Speaker 3: child does not get put in a prison self for

1037
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 3: the rest of his life, gets let out on a technicality,

1038
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:04,399
Speaker 3: or you know, whatever the case is, or you get

1039
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 3: arrested because you put your hands on a bag. There's

1040
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:11,600
Speaker 3: an Instagram profile, right, dude, they're doing these what we

1041
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:14,799
Speaker 3: refer to as a john op. They're pretending that they're

1042
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:17,840
Speaker 3: a john, right, you know, in the terms of solicitation prostitution,

1043
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:21,120
Speaker 3: that they're a john and they're getting these or that

1044
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 3: they're a little kid and they're getting these men to

1045
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:25,480
Speaker 3: meet them at Walmart or whatever. And then we're sneaking

1046
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:28,440
Speaker 3: the ship out of these people and it's like, Okay,

1047
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:31,359
Speaker 3: what are you doing. This guy is still a pedophile. Right,

1048
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:33,719
Speaker 3: that guy is never going to be arrested off what

1049
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:36,799
Speaker 3: you did. And now you're going to be arrested because

1050
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:39,440
Speaker 3: you just assaulted this guy. What good did you do?

1051
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:43,279
Speaker 2: Right? Right? And he's making awarenesses and it causes a

1052
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 2: bad situation for what you're actually doing.

1053
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:49,120
Speaker 3: Right, And I listen, I get the sentiment behind what

1054
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:52,799
Speaker 3: they're they do. We all want to smack the shit

1055
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:55,759
Speaker 3: out of these guys and feed them alligators, right, right, right.

1056
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:59,840
Speaker 3: But the reality is all of us doing this job

1057
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:03,239
Speaker 3: all have the right intention. We want to stop people

1058
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:06,879
Speaker 3: from hurting children and women, right, just because we are

1059
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 3: good people. This is why we joined the military. We

1060
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:12,560
Speaker 3: became cops or firemen or whatever the case is. But

1061
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:15,360
Speaker 3: you know, I was on Dan Crenshaw's podcast and I said,

1062
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:17,440
Speaker 3: when you went through buds, did they teach you anything

1063
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:20,160
Speaker 3: about rules of evidence? No, they didn't teach you anything

1064
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:23,719
Speaker 3: about that. Right, So we have to build cases, We

1065
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:25,759
Speaker 3: have to work within the system in the limits that

1066
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:29,320
Speaker 3: we have in the United States and our judicial process.

1067
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:31,360
Speaker 3: I still have a lot of confidence there. You know,

1068
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 3: there are some screwed up things that have happened with

1069
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:36,800
Speaker 3: bad cases or you know, bad evidence or whatever. The

1070
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:40,799
Speaker 3: case is right where people get off, you know, when

1071
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:41,680
Speaker 3: they should be going to.

1072
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:42,479
Speaker 2: Prison, Like.

1073
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 3: That guy should have served the rest of his life

1074
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 3: as from prison.

1075
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:47,920
Speaker 2: He shouldn't have had to go back. He should have

1076
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:51,480
Speaker 2: already been in You're absolutely correct, that's all. I'm just

1077
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:54,160
Speaker 2: pointing that out for the listener. For like who we're

1078
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 2: talking about here, like that kind of a thing, right,

1079
00:56:56,120 --> 00:57:02,400
Speaker 2: like absolutely and his cohorts. His gris the Maxwell or

1080
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:04,000
Speaker 2: the lady she's in prison.

1081
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:06,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I don't remember how many years she got.

1082
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 3: But you know, but when a judge says, and I'm

1083
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 3: doing this for memory, so please excuse me if I'm wrong,

1084
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:14,719
Speaker 3: I'm sure somebody will fact check me.

1085
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 2: Here, go ahead, common down below.

1086
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 3: But the judge in Max Maxwell was her name.

1087
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:25,680
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, Gislaine Gislaine Maxwell.

1088
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, his friend right, said something about that they couldn't

1089
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 3: release the list because it would be too detrimental to

1090
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 3: public safety or something along those lines.

1091
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 2: Right, It's like, let us judge that talking about it. Yeah,

1092
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:41,560
Speaker 2: that's what it is.

1093
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 3: It was detrimental to a federal investigation. Okay, I'm good. Right,

1094
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:51,520
Speaker 3: you were under investigation for sex traficking. Go for it.

1095
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:53,760
Speaker 3: But it's been how many years.

1096
00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:57,200
Speaker 2: Bro, what's the investigation stalling on? You know, it's like

1097
00:57:57,480 --> 00:57:59,760
Speaker 2: we don't want to say thing because we're investigating this

1098
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 2: for It's like you already know.

1099
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know much time we have left, but

1100
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:07,360
Speaker 3: I really want to talk about one big project.

1101
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:08,600
Speaker 2: That we have going on if we I'd love to

1102
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 2: hear that.

1103
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:13,640
Speaker 3: Okay, great. So how I met Cyrus is? Cyrus is

1104
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:19,400
Speaker 3: a Native American and Navajo. Yeah he's Navajoa. That's exactly right, Cyrus.

1105
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:23,800
Speaker 3: He is a great, great dude. Yeah, and such a

1106
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 3: sauce spoken, like gentle hearted guy.

1107
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:28,640
Speaker 2: I really love him, but a ranger with night vision

1108
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 2: and he will people will he.

1109
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 3: Will keeck open your door and c QP the shit.

1110
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 2: Out of you, right bro. Yeah, he's great. He is.

1111
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:41,560
Speaker 3: So. So I met Cyrus because you know, back in

1112
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:43,880
Speaker 3: let's see, we're in twenty twenty five, so twenty beginning

1113
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:46,040
Speaker 3: of twenty twenty four, we want to look at doing

1114
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:51,720
Speaker 3: a domestic project. And you know, obviously, coming from law enforcement,

1115
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:56,480
Speaker 3: I know that cops can be very territorial, uh, and

1116
00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:58,040
Speaker 3: you don't want to step on their toes because they

1117
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:01,240
Speaker 3: really do for the most they're really great at what

1118
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:05,600
Speaker 3: they do. So we wanted to find law enforcement that

1119
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:09,200
Speaker 3: really needed our help with data and actionable intelligence. So

1120
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:13,400
Speaker 3: we looked at what what is a great law enforcement agencies,

1121
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:17,520
Speaker 3: agencies right in the United States that don't have resources,

1122
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:21,160
Speaker 3: and we looked at tribal law enforcement and tribal law enforce.

1123
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:26,520
Speaker 3: You know, the complexity of jurisdictional issues on a Native

1124
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:28,280
Speaker 3: reservation is insane.

1125
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:33,120
Speaker 2: I was going to say something that it's ridiculous anymore,

1126
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:39,200
Speaker 2: even though I am it. Okay, we're all on the spectrum, brother, Yes, exactly.

1127
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:45,560
Speaker 3: So it's like you have some states that that tribal

1128
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 3: land is state jurisdiction. You have some state and they're

1129
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 3: called it's a two eighty state or a non to

1130
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:56,000
Speaker 3: eighty state, and then you have some states that the

1131
00:59:56,080 --> 00:59:59,959
Speaker 3: tribal lands are federal jurisdiction, and you have some jurisdictions

1132
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:05,320
Speaker 3: that and then the the jurisdiction of sentencing, like for example,

1133
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:08,160
Speaker 3: in Cherokee, they can sentence somebody for a maximum of

1134
01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:11,680
Speaker 3: nine years in prison. That's it. So if you have

1135
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:13,840
Speaker 3: somebody who's committed a homicide, the most they're getting is

1136
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 3: nine years in prison, but you would hope that they

1137
01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 3: get a federal sentence and it's so complex between each

1138
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:23,360
Speaker 3: nation that I don't even understand all of it yet

1139
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 3: We're still we're still you know, digging in and learning

1140
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:30,000
Speaker 3: as we go. But anyway, so in early twenty twenty four,

1141
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:33,720
Speaker 3: we wanted to support We decided we wanted to support

1142
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:40,480
Speaker 3: a tribal program. And because they suffer tribal it's called

1143
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:43,720
Speaker 3: Indian Country throughout the throughout the US, like all of

1144
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:48,160
Speaker 3: the tribes, Indian Country suffers from a problem that they

1145
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:51,480
Speaker 3: that it's called different things different places, but the federal

1146
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:57,960
Speaker 3: term is m sorry m MP, which is missing murdered

1147
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:03,760
Speaker 3: Indigenous people, right, So you're talking about trafficking, homicides, addiction,

1148
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 3: like everything. It just covers so much. And so we

1149
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:12,400
Speaker 3: really wanted to partner with tribal law enforcement and tackle

1150
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 3: this issue because it is a really stupid issue to

1151
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:18,320
Speaker 3: have here in the United States where you have people

1152
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 3: that could be murdered or good missing, right, and nobody

1153
01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:25,880
Speaker 3: has the resources to look into this stuff. So we

1154
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:28,760
Speaker 3: are piloting a person. So how we work programs is

1155
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:31,160
Speaker 3: we every January, we sit down, we say these are

1156
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:33,400
Speaker 3: the programs we'd want to do for the following year,

1157
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:35,960
Speaker 3: and we take a year to concept these the programs

1158
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:38,840
Speaker 3: out so that we are extremely thoughtful because this is

1159
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 3: super complex stuff. You know, internationally, you're talking about geopolitics

1160
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:45,560
Speaker 3: and all these other nonsense things that kind of play

1161
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 3: into it. So we took all of twenty twenty four

1162
01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:51,720
Speaker 3: started building out this program that we refer to as

1163
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:55,600
Speaker 3: Task Force Red Hand. Red Hand is the you might

1164
01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:58,560
Speaker 3: have seen it, the red handprint over the face. Yeah,

1165
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:02,480
Speaker 3: over the face, righties m m I W m mi IP.

1166
01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 3: It goes by a few different things. Navahou Nation calls

1167
01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:11,120
Speaker 3: it something else, missing murdered relatives. I believe it. It's

1168
01:02:11,120 --> 01:02:13,480
Speaker 3: just called a few different things, but all meaning the

1169
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:18,440
Speaker 3: same thing. And so we have we are piloting a

1170
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 3: project in Oklahoma, and we have several Native nations that

1171
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 3: have signed on board that support this program. We have

1172
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:31,200
Speaker 3: the State of Oklahoma Attorney General's office that's signed up

1173
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:36,040
Speaker 3: to support this, we have local police. So we've created

1174
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:39,040
Speaker 3: this public part private partnership and the intent was to

1175
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 3: not have a siloed approach to this, but have nonprofits,

1176
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 3: for profits, academia, law enforcement, and other government bodies kind

1177
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:52,680
Speaker 3: of come together. Everybody bring their specialty to the table

1178
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:58,560
Speaker 3: and really create a program a full you know, in government,

1179
01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 3: we used to call it a government wider, a whole

1180
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:03,520
Speaker 3: of government approach to this one problem. So it's kind

1181
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:06,640
Speaker 3: of a three tiered system. The first one is education

1182
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:12,120
Speaker 3: and awareness. So we have University of Houston that is

1183
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:15,320
Speaker 3: partnering with us who is going to be partnering with

1184
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:19,080
Speaker 3: tribal colleges which are equivalent to like a community college

1185
01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:23,960
Speaker 3: to develop curriculum so that those tribal kids that are

1186
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:26,520
Speaker 3: going to those schools are going to be pushed out

1187
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:32,680
Speaker 3: into their communities and teach this this awareness and education programs, right,

1188
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:36,800
Speaker 3: it'll go to community leaders, students, and their parents to

1189
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:38,840
Speaker 3: kind of give them a full scope. This is the

1190
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:43,360
Speaker 3: reality of what MMIP, you know, all the issues that

1191
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:47,520
Speaker 3: kind of surround it. That part does two things. The

1192
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:50,360
Speaker 3: first is we want it to encourage the next generation

1193
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:55,880
Speaker 3: of fighters in this and get local young kids involved

1194
01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:58,280
Speaker 3: in the fight in their communities. And the second thing

1195
01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:01,440
Speaker 3: is hopefully we're going to stop the next generation of victims,

1196
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:05,960
Speaker 3: yes by doing this awareness hurt. The second tier is

1197
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:11,760
Speaker 3: our interdiction or our enhanced law enforcement solutions. So one

1198
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 3: of the biggest issues that we saw in tribal country

1199
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:18,480
Speaker 3: was our Indian country was tribes were not communicating with

1200
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:23,160
Speaker 3: each other in their own states about trafficking or you

1201
01:04:23,200 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 3: know other issues that fall under m MIP, and so

1202
01:04:26,080 --> 01:04:29,320
Speaker 3: we wanted to create a system where everybody was kind

1203
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:32,520
Speaker 3: of talking to each other. So we'll be building out

1204
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:35,960
Speaker 3: a database that's backed with machine learning and AI that

1205
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:38,480
Speaker 3: there more data we pour into it, the better the

1206
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:40,600
Speaker 3: insights are that come out of it. So then we

1207
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:43,600
Speaker 3: can start targeting, like, hey, there seems to be a

1208
01:04:43,640 --> 01:04:49,040
Speaker 3: lot of you know, young people coming from victims right

1209
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:53,520
Speaker 3: coming from this tribe or this area to another area,

1210
01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:58,560
Speaker 3: whether it goes into casinos or share oil camps or

1211
01:04:58,600 --> 01:05:01,680
Speaker 3: you know, any variety of different things that could potentially

1212
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:04,880
Speaker 3: be popping up cartel issues. There's a lot of cartel

1213
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:08,480
Speaker 3: issues happening on tribal lands because you have small police

1214
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:12,240
Speaker 3: departments that don't have enough resources to police their entire

1215
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:16,040
Speaker 3: I mean, these reservations are massive, right, You're talking about

1216
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:19,760
Speaker 3: thirteen counties, seventeen counties, you know, I mean, they're just massive,

1217
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:22,080
Speaker 3: and then you have like a small amount of cops

1218
01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:27,080
Speaker 3: that work each shift. So that's one thing. The second

1219
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:29,960
Speaker 3: is we'll be standing up an operations center, so any

1220
01:05:30,080 --> 01:05:33,280
Speaker 3: tribal cop from any of the jurisdictions that we partner

1221
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:35,600
Speaker 3: with can pick up the phone twenty four to seven

1222
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:38,680
Speaker 3: and say we've had a murder or we've had a

1223
01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:42,040
Speaker 3: missing person. Here's all the pedigree information that feeds it

1224
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:47,200
Speaker 3: into the system, and our targeters are analysts will go

1225
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:50,160
Speaker 3: to work right away twenty four and that will give

1226
01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:55,240
Speaker 3: them exactly and that will give those cops actionable intelligence

1227
01:05:55,720 --> 01:05:58,720
Speaker 3: to turn a body recovery into the rescue of a

1228
01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:02,200
Speaker 3: human being and bring them back home to their parents

1229
01:06:02,280 --> 01:06:04,480
Speaker 3: and their family that love them right now. So, just

1230
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:07,080
Speaker 3: to give you a quick statistic on that, the last

1231
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:10,320
Speaker 3: real data that we had on a national level was

1232
01:06:10,520 --> 01:06:14,400
Speaker 3: twenty sixteen. There was five seven hundred and twelve cases

1233
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:18,600
Speaker 3: of missing and murdered Indigenous people right nationally, and of

1234
01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:23,160
Speaker 3: that the FBI investigated one hundred and sixteen cases. One

1235
01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:24,400
Speaker 3: hundred and sixteen cases.

1236
01:06:24,920 --> 01:06:26,520
Speaker 2: I thought, is it just manpower?

1237
01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:30,480
Speaker 3: It's a combination of things, And I'll be really honest.

1238
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:32,360
Speaker 3: So I did an interview with Native News Online, and

1239
01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:35,040
Speaker 3: I think that I said something very similar to what

1240
01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:40,120
Speaker 3: I'm about to say. It's that Native Americans are forgotten people.

1241
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:45,000
Speaker 3: They have historically been forgotten people. In this country and

1242
01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:49,600
Speaker 3: we just do not provide the resources they have. The

1243
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:55,800
Speaker 3: jurisdictional complexity, there's issues with you know a lot of

1244
01:06:55,880 --> 01:07:00,960
Speaker 3: non natives that live in and around the reservations see

1245
01:07:01,080 --> 01:07:04,680
Speaker 3: addiction and alcohol abuse, and they say, these people are

1246
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:07,400
Speaker 3: just bad. Every every time that we have something bad

1247
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:09,000
Speaker 3: that happens in our town, it's these people. I mean,

1248
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:12,600
Speaker 3: I've heard stories there there are police officers that are

1249
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:17,280
Speaker 3: targeting Native Americans when they come off the reservation, right,

1250
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:22,080
Speaker 3: and and it like I get targeting behavior, right, but

1251
01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:24,440
Speaker 3: targeting people, it's just you know, and I don't want

1252
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:25,680
Speaker 3: to give cops a bad rep here.

1253
01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:29,960
Speaker 2: Like, you know, it doesn't mean that you're a bad person,

1254
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:31,800
Speaker 2: and that's kind of what you're they're just like kind

1255
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:33,920
Speaker 2: of they're they're profiling.

1256
01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:38,040
Speaker 3: I Like I said, I always give cops the benefit

1257
01:07:38,080 --> 01:07:40,240
Speaker 3: of the doubt. I'm a former cop, right, I always

1258
01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:41,840
Speaker 3: give cops the benefit of the doubt. It is a

1259
01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:44,160
Speaker 3: very difficult job. So I don't want to I don't

1260
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:46,000
Speaker 3: want to put a bad connotation on this. I think

1261
01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:51,200
Speaker 3: it's just decades of like bad blood between you know,

1262
01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:55,160
Speaker 3: the reservations and non natives.

1263
01:07:54,520 --> 01:07:56,400
Speaker 2: Saying you can't come on our land cop and the

1264
01:07:56,440 --> 01:07:59,160
Speaker 2: cops this guy just this guy just escaped into your

1265
01:07:59,240 --> 01:08:00,760
Speaker 2: land and they're like, well, we'll have it.

1266
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:03,160
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean it's it's just a combination of so

1267
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:04,600
Speaker 3: many issues that.

1268
01:08:04,760 --> 01:08:07,360
Speaker 2: You're white and you're on the land, they can't arrest you.

1269
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:12,560
Speaker 3: That's true sometimes, Yeah, and that's your sexual complexity. It

1270
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:17,320
Speaker 3: was for a long time that if you so, tribal

1271
01:08:17,320 --> 01:08:20,680
Speaker 3: police would not investigate homicides because if it turned out

1272
01:08:20,680 --> 01:08:24,280
Speaker 3: the suspect was non Native, they could not investigate.

1273
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:28,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just like, yeah, he's like, we had so

1274
01:08:29,040 --> 01:08:31,920
Speaker 2: much crime once they realized that we couldn't arrest them

1275
01:08:31,960 --> 01:08:35,799
Speaker 2: on our land. He's like crime just exploded with people

1276
01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:37,519
Speaker 2: just coming in and just doing whatever and then just

1277
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:41,840
Speaker 2: leaving because the tribal cops are are are not able

1278
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:42,840
Speaker 2: to arrest a white guy.

1279
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:45,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, and and and I mean it's a matter of

1280
01:08:45,479 --> 01:08:48,479
Speaker 3: like sometimes it's just as simple as like just a

1281
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:51,719
Speaker 3: pissing contest between native and non native cops.

1282
01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:54,200
Speaker 2: Agencies and so yeah, agencies, right.

1283
01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:58,559
Speaker 3: And just it's just decades of bad blood between people,

1284
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:01,400
Speaker 3: and some of it is one side fault and some

1285
01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:03,120
Speaker 3: of it's the other side fault. But one of the

1286
01:09:03,160 --> 01:09:05,679
Speaker 3: biggest things I wanted to accomplish with Task Worces Redhand

1287
01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:11,400
Speaker 3: was to build those bridges because I truly believe in humans, right,

1288
01:09:11,479 --> 01:09:15,840
Speaker 3: and I truly believe that like all of us, all

1289
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:18,519
Speaker 3: of us are just trying to do the same thing.

1290
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:22,000
Speaker 3: We're trying to get dinner, kids, bellies, provide a safe

1291
01:09:22,240 --> 01:09:24,640
Speaker 3: home to them, send them off to to to.

1292
01:09:24,760 --> 01:09:27,439
Speaker 2: School so that they Everybody wants that.

1293
01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:31,920
Speaker 3: Everybody wants that, everyone right, So I like, I think

1294
01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:33,559
Speaker 3: that if we can kind of break down some of

1295
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:36,880
Speaker 3: these walls and and traverse project can be kind of

1296
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:40,960
Speaker 3: the the go between until we can get those folks talking.

1297
01:09:41,479 --> 01:09:42,960
Speaker 3: Then I think we're gonna We're just gonna have it.

1298
01:09:43,240 --> 01:09:45,840
Speaker 3: It's just gonna build that bridge, right, and we'll start

1299
01:09:45,840 --> 01:09:46,839
Speaker 3: solving a lot of problems.

1300
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:49,240
Speaker 2: Well, should be Bob the Builder now because you.

1301
01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:55,559
Speaker 3: Because my last name is Shamlin and and uh what

1302
01:09:55,640 --> 01:09:58,120
Speaker 3: was the guy from the infomercial that sold the uh

1303
01:09:59,479 --> 01:10:03,400
Speaker 3: that was my call signed in Iraq unfortunately. Wow yeah, sham.

1304
01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:05,520
Speaker 2: Wow, come clean on this up. ShamWow.

1305
01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:11,880
Speaker 3: Very exciting. So the third tier of this is aftercare,

1306
01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:14,960
Speaker 3: right in survivor care, and you know, I just we

1307
01:10:15,040 --> 01:10:17,720
Speaker 3: are not a survivor care organization. It is one of

1308
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:21,840
Speaker 3: those things that like, if you do it poorly, you

1309
01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:23,720
Speaker 3: can really I mean you're taking somebody out of a

1310
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:27,479
Speaker 3: really bad situation. And if you do it poorly, and

1311
01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:29,439
Speaker 3: there's been a couple of organizations we may or may

1312
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:32,280
Speaker 3: not have talked about earlier that did it poorly for

1313
01:10:32,280 --> 01:10:35,679
Speaker 3: a number of years and just didn't care. I wanted

1314
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:37,920
Speaker 3: to make sure that we were being responsible and did

1315
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:41,360
Speaker 3: it really well. So we partner with organizations, yes, and

1316
01:10:41,439 --> 01:10:45,040
Speaker 3: so when you bring somebody out of this situation, whether

1317
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:50,280
Speaker 3: it is addiction, prostitution, because of human trafficking, whatever, whatever,

1318
01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:54,559
Speaker 3: whatever you're surviving right that we're putting you into a

1319
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:58,280
Speaker 3: path for success moving forward. And so we've partnered with

1320
01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:02,160
Speaker 3: Ranstad USA, which is one of the largest staffing companies

1321
01:11:02,200 --> 01:11:06,599
Speaker 3: in the world. And we've partnered with Annie Cannons, which

1322
01:11:06,720 --> 01:11:09,960
Speaker 3: is a fantastic aftercare organizations, and both of them have

1323
01:11:10,120 --> 01:11:13,639
Speaker 3: similar programs. The Ranstad program is they have a thirty

1324
01:11:13,640 --> 01:11:17,160
Speaker 3: five week program where vulnerable women can be placed into

1325
01:11:17,200 --> 01:11:20,719
Speaker 3: their program. The first week they're learning about building resumes

1326
01:11:20,760 --> 01:11:23,559
Speaker 3: and LinkedIn profiles and things like that. They go through

1327
01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:27,360
Speaker 3: they graduate thirty five weeks later and Ranstead hosts essentially

1328
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:29,280
Speaker 3: a career fair with all their customers that you're talking

1329
01:11:29,320 --> 01:11:31,880
Speaker 3: about Google and Nike and Amazon and you know, all

1330
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:35,479
Speaker 3: of their customers and they place them for employment. And

1331
01:11:35,479 --> 01:11:39,000
Speaker 3: then Annie Cannons does a very similar thing. There are

1332
01:11:39,040 --> 01:11:42,360
Speaker 3: new partners. So I don't have all the details on

1333
01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:45,320
Speaker 3: how long their programs, but they teach people essentially to

1334
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:48,080
Speaker 3: be computer engineers. They're teaching them coding and all this

1335
01:11:48,160 --> 01:11:50,920
Speaker 3: great stuff. And so when you graduate their program, they

1336
01:11:50,960 --> 01:11:54,479
Speaker 3: also have career placement and those folks are going off

1337
01:11:54,520 --> 01:11:56,200
Speaker 3: to super high painion jobs, right.

1338
01:11:56,240 --> 01:12:00,599
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they're curating them for those positions. Eloye, You're like, hey,

1339
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:02,840
Speaker 2: let me talk to you of your program. Yeah, and

1340
01:12:02,840 --> 01:12:04,639
Speaker 2: as soon as you give me two students that graduate

1341
01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:06,760
Speaker 2: your program, I will hire them absolutely.

1342
01:12:07,479 --> 01:12:10,559
Speaker 3: So with the rams that they had a great they

1343
01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:13,439
Speaker 3: had one of it that was trafficked. She went through

1344
01:12:13,439 --> 01:12:15,920
Speaker 3: the program, went to the career fair, got hired into

1345
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:18,800
Speaker 3: an HR position, made her way up to management, and

1346
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:21,600
Speaker 3: just last year bought her first home. Right and like

1347
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:26,400
Speaker 3: to hear that kind of pack to success, that's what

1348
01:12:26,439 --> 01:12:29,840
Speaker 3: I wanted for task worts redhand, and so you know

1349
01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:32,719
Speaker 3: it's it's super important. This is this is a first

1350
01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:37,200
Speaker 3: of its kind program in Indian country. You know, we're

1351
01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:40,400
Speaker 3: we're going to Congress here next week, I think, and

1352
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:44,680
Speaker 3: pushing for congressional funding for this. You know, we've got

1353
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:46,840
Speaker 3: a lot of just amazing partners. I didn't even talk

1354
01:12:46,840 --> 01:12:49,280
Speaker 3: about her tech partners that are in that tier two

1355
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:52,719
Speaker 3: of the law enforcement solutions, but we have amazing partners

1356
01:12:52,720 --> 01:12:57,120
Speaker 3: there and and really giving us access to just unbelievable data,

1357
01:12:57,720 --> 01:13:01,240
Speaker 3: building out our our infrastructure so that we can support this.

1358
01:13:01,840 --> 01:13:04,880
Speaker 3: And I'm really stoked about it, you know, And you

1359
01:13:04,920 --> 01:13:10,040
Speaker 3: can go to our website Traverse Project dot org. All

1360
01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:12,080
Speaker 3: of our programs, all of our leadership. You know, we

1361
01:13:12,120 --> 01:13:14,759
Speaker 3: try to be as transparent as possible to the public.

1362
01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:17,880
Speaker 3: So it's all on there. This is. And just to

1363
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:20,040
Speaker 3: be clear, because I've gotten beat up a couple of

1364
01:13:20,080 --> 01:13:24,120
Speaker 3: times about not being native and kind of leading the

1365
01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:29,280
Speaker 3: Native Project, all the leadership on Task Force Red Hand

1366
01:13:29,840 --> 01:13:35,120
Speaker 3: is all Native, all of it right for that exactly? Well,

1367
01:13:35,200 --> 01:13:37,920
Speaker 3: I listen, I worked in Afghanistan, I worked in Iraq,

1368
01:13:38,000 --> 01:13:41,080
Speaker 3: I worked in Haiti, I worked in Somalia. And what

1369
01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:45,120
Speaker 3: I learned very quickly was, you know, people refer to

1370
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:49,880
Speaker 3: it as the white savior complex, Right, I are the

1371
01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:53,479
Speaker 3: Superman complex. We don't suffer from that, right, So what

1372
01:13:53,520 --> 01:13:55,760
Speaker 3: we like to do is create programs that really in

1373
01:13:55,880 --> 01:14:00,479
Speaker 3: processes that really solve the problem. And when I was overseas,

1374
01:14:00,600 --> 01:14:03,920
Speaker 3: I learned that first probably the most important thing is

1375
01:14:03,920 --> 01:14:05,640
Speaker 3: is to shut up and start listening a little bit

1376
01:14:05,640 --> 01:14:08,439
Speaker 3: more and add value where you can. And where we're

1377
01:14:08,479 --> 01:14:12,240
Speaker 3: adding value is data solutions, processes, things like that, you know,

1378
01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:17,040
Speaker 3: bridge building, but this needs to be a solution that

1379
01:14:17,400 --> 01:14:21,240
Speaker 3: natives are leading the charge on. And what our intent

1380
01:14:21,439 --> 01:14:25,439
Speaker 3: is that with you know, three years, four years, we

1381
01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:27,040
Speaker 3: have to we have to. I don't want to put

1382
01:14:27,040 --> 01:14:30,160
Speaker 3: a timeline on it, but somewhere around that time that

1383
01:14:30,240 --> 01:14:33,160
Speaker 3: we will be handing this project off to a native

1384
01:14:33,200 --> 01:14:37,719
Speaker 3: nonprofit that will then become the program manager, the umbrella

1385
01:14:37,840 --> 01:14:40,120
Speaker 3: that keeps it all together, and will go back to

1386
01:14:40,160 --> 01:14:42,679
Speaker 3: tier two, which is what we're really good at, pattern

1387
01:14:42,720 --> 01:14:46,880
Speaker 3: of life investigations, data analytics, targeting, things like that.

1388
01:14:47,640 --> 01:14:50,479
Speaker 2: Right, it sounds like you're just trying to help create

1389
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:54,439
Speaker 2: this subset of you within the native culture so that

1390
01:14:54,479 --> 01:14:56,599
Speaker 2: they work it, and then you have to shift back

1391
01:14:56,640 --> 01:14:58,880
Speaker 2: to another situate, a situation and.

1392
01:14:59,120 --> 01:15:03,280
Speaker 3: We'll still support it forever. And so that's where like

1393
01:15:03,640 --> 01:15:08,160
Speaker 3: guys like Cyrus and Jeremiah from from War Party Ranch,

1394
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:13,559
Speaker 3: you know, and Bernardine from Four Corners Canine, you know,

1395
01:15:13,600 --> 01:15:16,320
Speaker 3: which is another she's Navajo. She's got a great program

1396
01:15:16,320 --> 01:15:18,599
Speaker 3: down there as well. Like we're bringing in all these

1397
01:15:18,680 --> 01:15:22,760
Speaker 3: Native nonprofits to support what we're doing, and we're just

1398
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:25,519
Speaker 3: adding a value with the program management and doing what

1399
01:15:25,560 --> 01:15:30,200
Speaker 3: we do best from a tech and data perspective. But

1400
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:35,479
Speaker 3: this is the most important priority of Traverse Project for

1401
01:15:35,520 --> 01:15:39,120
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five, right, and it's been incredible.

1402
01:15:40,280 --> 01:15:43,160
Speaker 2: I love that and Cyrus too. I love Cyrus too.

1403
01:15:43,280 --> 01:15:45,720
Speaker 2: So anything to help, you know. I mean on the show,

1404
01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:49,160
Speaker 2: he was talking about how it's just wild, you know,

1405
01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:53,679
Speaker 2: what happens on tribal lands, and you know, we can't

1406
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:59,559
Speaker 2: forget that, and god, you know, boy boy, yeah, I.

1407
01:15:59,560 --> 01:16:02,960
Speaker 3: Really do think that. You know, this this current administration.

1408
01:16:03,720 --> 01:16:05,880
Speaker 3: You know, we have Christy Nome, who I know she

1409
01:16:06,040 --> 01:16:08,280
Speaker 3: got she had some issues with some of the tribes

1410
01:16:08,320 --> 01:16:10,160
Speaker 3: in her in South Kota when she was a governor.

1411
01:16:10,560 --> 01:16:14,559
Speaker 3: But Christy now Noam is now the Secretary of Homeland Security.

1412
01:16:15,200 --> 01:16:17,120
Speaker 3: Homeland Security is going to play a huge role in this.

1413
01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:20,160
Speaker 3: You know, we are Traverse Project as partners with the

1414
01:16:20,160 --> 01:16:24,160
Speaker 3: Center for Countering Human Trafficking at h s I. It's

1415
01:16:24,200 --> 01:16:28,240
Speaker 3: kind of their their kind of incubator, not an incubator,

1416
01:16:28,240 --> 01:16:32,200
Speaker 3: but kind of their their central brain for human trafficking programs,

1417
01:16:32,240 --> 01:16:34,559
Speaker 3: and they kind of coordinate everything from there.

1418
01:16:35,800 --> 01:16:38,360
Speaker 2: But we don't know any funding to tribals though, you know,

1419
01:16:38,400 --> 01:16:40,160
Speaker 2: because they're in there right now with like axes and

1420
01:16:40,200 --> 01:16:41,759
Speaker 2: guillotines cutting off funding.

1421
01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:47,000
Speaker 3: I think I think funny is going to get cut why,

1422
01:16:47,200 --> 01:16:50,719
Speaker 3: you know, government wide for probably six months, which pushes

1423
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:52,360
Speaker 3: back some of the stuff, some of the plans that

1424
01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:56,599
Speaker 3: we had. But I think, I really do think that

1425
01:16:56,680 --> 01:17:00,560
Speaker 3: with all the issues that tribal lands deal with through cartels.

1426
01:17:01,040 --> 01:17:03,200
Speaker 3: I mean I was just on on the phone two

1427
01:17:03,280 --> 01:17:07,400
Speaker 3: weeks ago with another tribe in Oklahoma who's like, yeah,

1428
01:17:07,400 --> 01:17:11,320
Speaker 3: we're dealing with you know, we have historically dealt with

1429
01:17:11,439 --> 01:17:14,680
Speaker 3: cartel issues here. You know. I remember hearing from a

1430
01:17:14,720 --> 01:17:16,920
Speaker 3: deputy attorney general in another state. I don't want to

1431
01:17:17,120 --> 01:17:19,000
Speaker 3: because it's under investigation, so I don't want to give it.

1432
01:17:19,360 --> 01:17:23,720
Speaker 3: But another state where they're dealing with organized crime out

1433
01:17:23,720 --> 01:17:28,280
Speaker 3: of Eastern Europe, you know, deal in their casinos, so

1434
01:17:28,520 --> 01:17:33,920
Speaker 3: you know, it's just there's so many problems that you know,

1435
01:17:34,520 --> 01:17:40,120
Speaker 3: bad guys using air quotations right are kind of abusing

1436
01:17:40,800 --> 01:17:44,960
Speaker 3: the jurisdictional complexities of the tribal lands and.

1437
01:17:44,920 --> 01:17:48,080
Speaker 2: It's just money there.

1438
01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:51,240
Speaker 3: But I can tell you right now, uh, and I'll

1439
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:55,200
Speaker 3: go on record saying this, if you are abusing a

1440
01:17:55,320 --> 01:18:00,799
Speaker 3: child or or a woman. If if there is someone

1441
01:18:00,960 --> 01:18:03,880
Speaker 3: who is a bad guy focused in on one of

1442
01:18:03,880 --> 01:18:08,040
Speaker 3: the categories that falls under m m IP, my team

1443
01:18:08,200 --> 01:18:09,840
Speaker 3: is going to put a stop to what you're doing.

1444
01:18:10,600 --> 01:18:12,320
Speaker 2: Is there a place that they can reach out to

1445
01:18:12,320 --> 01:18:14,880
Speaker 2: you and maybe say, hey, this is happening, I'd like

1446
01:18:14,920 --> 01:18:17,840
Speaker 2: to report this to you guys and let you investigate it.

1447
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:21,479
Speaker 2: Is that on the Traverse project dot org. Is there

1448
01:18:21,560 --> 01:18:23,639
Speaker 2: like a drop down where it's like submit it.

1449
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:26,479
Speaker 3: Will be so there will be as soon as this

1450
01:18:26,680 --> 01:18:29,559
Speaker 3: operation center gets stood up, there will be an email

1451
01:18:29,600 --> 01:18:35,559
Speaker 3: that you can see. Yeah, right now, absolutely what right now?

1452
01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:39,280
Speaker 3: What I would suggest is that DHS or HSI Homeland

1453
01:18:39,320 --> 01:18:43,280
Speaker 3: Secuting Investigations has a tip line for any trafficking issues.

1454
01:18:44,320 --> 01:18:47,400
Speaker 3: Call that number and report what you need to report there.

1455
01:18:47,960 --> 01:18:50,599
Speaker 3: HSI is a I mean the agents that we've worked

1456
01:18:50,640 --> 01:18:55,719
Speaker 3: with from HSI are unbelievably dedicated to combating human trafficking,

1457
01:18:56,120 --> 01:18:59,080
Speaker 3: combating drug cartels and everything else that kind of goes

1458
01:18:59,120 --> 01:19:04,400
Speaker 3: in that that space. So I make the call, let

1459
01:19:04,439 --> 01:19:05,280
Speaker 3: them know what's going on.

1460
01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:09,120
Speaker 2: You know, I've I've really enjoyed our conversation, you know,

1461
01:19:10,439 --> 01:19:12,000
Speaker 2: I mean we've taught. I don't know if you realize

1462
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:15,479
Speaker 2: it's been an hour twenty so yeah, and usually it's like,

1463
01:19:15,520 --> 01:19:18,120
Speaker 2: you know, it just kind of flows, and I don't

1464
01:19:18,120 --> 01:19:20,160
Speaker 2: want to stop it. But I just want to say,

1465
01:19:20,360 --> 01:19:24,000
Speaker 2: if anybody out there has any uh, you know, ambition

1466
01:19:24,160 --> 01:19:28,080
Speaker 2: to reach out to Thetraverseproject dot org, h you know,

1467
01:19:28,160 --> 01:19:30,000
Speaker 2: I would encourage you to do so if you want

1468
01:19:30,040 --> 01:19:32,000
Speaker 2: to see if there's a position probably there for you.

1469
01:19:32,280 --> 01:19:34,160
Speaker 2: Are you guys looking for you know, real quick, I'll

1470
01:19:34,160 --> 01:19:35,439
Speaker 2: give you like a minute. Are you looking for any

1471
01:19:35,479 --> 01:19:37,960
Speaker 2: veterans or anybody to join your organization right now?

1472
01:19:38,320 --> 01:19:41,960
Speaker 3: So what we're you know, supporting veterans is super important

1473
01:19:41,960 --> 01:19:47,000
Speaker 3: for me. So we we are constantly looking for people

1474
01:19:47,040 --> 01:19:51,600
Speaker 3: that want to reclass is intelli analysts or you know, targeters,

1475
01:19:51,680 --> 01:19:55,479
Speaker 3: things like that. We are always looking for interns. So

1476
01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:57,880
Speaker 3: if you're in college, you're using your post nine to

1477
01:19:57,880 --> 01:20:00,640
Speaker 3: eleven GI bill right now, and you want to do

1478
01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:04,479
Speaker 3: something good and learn some new skills, get over to

1479
01:20:04,520 --> 01:20:07,360
Speaker 3: the website, put in an application. One of our folks

1480
01:20:07,400 --> 01:20:09,240
Speaker 3: will get back to you like pretty much right away

1481
01:20:09,960 --> 01:20:14,400
Speaker 3: that you know right now. We have three that's a

1482
01:20:14,520 --> 01:20:18,360
Speaker 3: one air Force, one Army, one marine and the females

1483
01:20:18,400 --> 01:20:22,880
Speaker 3: the marine. Uh, all three of them. All three of

1484
01:20:22,920 --> 01:20:25,679
Speaker 3: them use their post nine to eleven g I bills

1485
01:20:26,080 --> 01:20:28,679
Speaker 3: at UC Berkeley to get their masters. We had partnered

1486
01:20:28,680 --> 01:20:33,400
Speaker 3: with UC Berkeley early early early days, and they said, wow,

1487
01:20:33,439 --> 01:20:34,960
Speaker 3: we love what you're doing and wanted to stay on.

1488
01:20:35,080 --> 01:20:37,080
Speaker 3: And they are all three still here with Traverse two

1489
01:20:37,160 --> 01:20:40,880
Speaker 3: years later. So it's we are always looking for for

1490
01:20:40,960 --> 01:20:42,800
Speaker 3: folks to join our our fight.

1491
01:20:43,280 --> 01:20:43,800
Speaker 2: I love that.

1492
01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:47,839
Speaker 3: I love that at Traverse project dot org Verse Project

1493
01:20:47,840 --> 01:20:49,840
Speaker 3: dot org Traverse.

1494
01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:52,680
Speaker 2: Traverse like you're traversing the mountain on a snowboard. I

1495
01:20:52,680 --> 01:20:56,000
Speaker 2: had to get that in my head. Traverse Traverse projects

1496
01:20:56,920 --> 01:20:58,400
Speaker 2: we got, yeah.

1497
01:20:58,720 --> 01:21:01,879
Speaker 3: Side, it's all Instagram, find us on LinkedIn.

1498
01:21:03,640 --> 01:21:05,959
Speaker 2: We'll have some of those things put into the dissertation

1499
01:21:06,080 --> 01:21:08,320
Speaker 2: down below when this goes on the website. So my

1500
01:21:08,400 --> 01:21:10,439
Speaker 2: listener out there, the viewer, you can just click on

1501
01:21:10,479 --> 01:21:12,760
Speaker 2: that once it's live and you can go check out

1502
01:21:12,800 --> 01:21:16,839
Speaker 2: the Traverse project dot org. Uh Traver Traverse.

1503
01:21:17,080 --> 01:21:19,559
Speaker 3: So you got it. You got it man.

1504
01:21:20,080 --> 01:21:23,519
Speaker 2: Now I'll be on behalf of myself and Brandon Webb

1505
01:21:23,560 --> 01:21:26,479
Speaker 2: who runs this whole soft rep with his crew, and

1506
01:21:26,880 --> 01:21:29,559
Speaker 2: you know, shout out to him, and shout out to

1507
01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:31,720
Speaker 2: you and to Cyrus and to your friend at the

1508
01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:35,320
Speaker 2: Canine four Corners Canine, and to Jeremiah. I'm just going

1509
01:21:35,400 --> 01:21:39,200
Speaker 2: to rehash that name. I like that name. Uh, you know.

1510
01:21:39,280 --> 01:21:40,840
Speaker 2: I just want to say thanks for being on the show,

1511
01:21:40,960 --> 01:21:43,479
Speaker 2: and I wish you best of luck in your endeavor

1512
01:21:43,640 --> 01:21:47,639
Speaker 2: with Congress and all these budget situations that are happening

1513
01:21:47,680 --> 01:21:51,280
Speaker 2: and in this day and age. I appreciate what you're

1514
01:21:51,320 --> 01:21:54,560
Speaker 2: doing and I'm just don't drive no Camaro though. I

1515
01:21:54,600 --> 01:21:55,800
Speaker 2: just want to tell you right now, Bro, I don't

1516
01:21:55,800 --> 01:21:57,880
Speaker 2: want to see that. I want to see you understand that, right.

1517
01:21:58,880 --> 01:22:01,120
Speaker 2: I'm just like, what's the optics on that? Right? Optics

1518
01:22:01,160 --> 01:22:01,920
Speaker 2: is what I'm all about.

1519
01:22:01,960 --> 01:22:04,400
Speaker 3: Right, Believe me, that was the least of his worries.

1520
01:22:04,640 --> 01:22:06,679
Speaker 2: I know, Bro, show me some humbleness in your situation,

1521
01:22:06,760 --> 01:22:08,880
Speaker 2: then I'll donate. I still will donate you, but just

1522
01:22:08,960 --> 01:22:11,920
Speaker 2: be humble about it, Bro, don't have me.

1523
01:22:13,000 --> 01:22:15,639
Speaker 3: I remember watching the very first interview that you did

1524
01:22:16,080 --> 01:22:20,840
Speaker 3: that I saw was the interview it was a doctor

1525
01:22:20,880 --> 01:22:25,479
Speaker 3: down and down in Baja doing usch yahuasca or something

1526
01:22:26,200 --> 01:22:29,040
Speaker 3: the I be game and I actually went to that

1527
01:22:29,160 --> 01:22:33,440
Speaker 3: because you're interview with them. So yeah, uh he's uh.

1528
01:22:33,240 --> 01:22:33,519
Speaker 2: So, I.

1529
01:22:35,320 --> 01:22:38,320
Speaker 3: Appreciate what you're doing. And uh, I appreciate for you

1530
01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:39,880
Speaker 3: having us on to kind of spread.

1531
01:22:39,920 --> 01:22:42,400
Speaker 2: Oh you're sweet and sweet, but stay hard. You know

1532
01:22:42,439 --> 01:22:44,840
Speaker 2: what I'm saying, Bro, And I got you and and

1533
01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:46,880
Speaker 2: I appreciate it. Anytime you want to come and like,

1534
01:22:46,960 --> 01:22:48,760
Speaker 2: you know, update us and let us know what's going

1535
01:22:48,800 --> 01:22:51,519
Speaker 2: on with your project. Uh, task Force red hand.

1536
01:22:51,800 --> 01:22:52,080
Speaker 3: You know.

1537
01:22:53,760 --> 01:22:55,160
Speaker 2: You're You're welcome here at soft Rep.

1538
01:22:55,400 --> 01:22:56,639
Speaker 3: Thanks brother, appreciate it.

1539
01:22:56,960 --> 01:22:59,040
Speaker 2: All right, Well, this is rad say check out our

1540
01:22:59,080 --> 01:23:01,360
Speaker 2: merch store, check out the book club which is soft

1541
01:23:01,400 --> 01:23:04,160
Speaker 2: reap dot com, Forward slash Book hyphen Club. And this

1542
01:23:04,320 --> 01:23:10,439
Speaker 2: is Austin Shamlin with Project or the Traverse Project dot org. Okay,

1543
01:23:10,479 --> 01:23:11,800
Speaker 2: and I want you guys to go check it out

1544
01:23:11,840 --> 01:23:14,000
Speaker 2: and make your own decisions and go from there. And

1545
01:23:14,240 --> 01:23:15,240
Speaker 2: thanks for being on the show.

1546
01:23:15,600 --> 01:23:16,120
Speaker 3: Thanks brother.

1547
01:23:16,560 --> 01:23:18,840
Speaker 2: All right, Hey, cheers and we'll talk soon. Yeah.

1548
01:23:18,960 --> 01:23:21,120
Speaker 3: Sounds good man, all right, peace it

1549
01:23:36,840 --> 01:23:39,280
Speaker 1: You've been listening to your self REP Radio