1 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine, Hey fam Today on the bright Side, it's 2 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:10,799 Speaker 1: Wellness Wednesday, and this week we're joined by financial therapist 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: Lindsay Brian Podvin to talk about our emotional connection to 4 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: money and our financial archetypes. It's Wednesday, July thirty. First, 5 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: I'm Simone Boyce. 6 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 2: I'm Danielle Robe and this is The bright Side from 7 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 2: Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together to 8 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 2: share women's stories, to laugh, learn and brighten your day. Simon, 9 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 2: we have some really fun news hot off the press 10 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 2: before we dive into our show today. The August book 11 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 2: pick for Reese's Book Club is here. The ninety ninth 12 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 2: book pick has been announced, so we want to send 13 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 2: a huge congratulations to Rainbow Rawl, author of Slow Dance. 14 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 3: That's right. 15 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: Slow Dance is a friends to lover's story about two 16 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: childhood besties, Shiloh and Carrie, who grow up together and 17 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: they promise each other they're going to make it out 18 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: of their small town. They're going to remain friends through 19 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,400 Speaker 1: it all. But that does not exactly happen, folks, because 20 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: years later, Shiloh is married and divorced, has two kids, 21 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: and back in the hometown, she and Carrie vowed to 22 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: escape from wondering if she'll see him again and if 23 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: those old promises could maybe perhaps lead to something more. Mmm. 24 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 2: Sounds like a simmering romance, perfect for a long summer day. 25 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 2: I love that plot, and reviews about the book are 26 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 2: calling it Raoul's triumphant return to adult fiction, and that's 27 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 2: because she was previously writing award winning young adult fiction 28 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 2: books and comics like Shee Hulk. 29 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,039 Speaker 4: So what I'm hoping is this. 30 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 2: Means that it has the drama of a Ya novel 31 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 2: and the heroics of she Hulk. If so, count me in, 32 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 2: because you can find me at the beach with my 33 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 2: SPF and my sunglasses diving into this one. 34 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 4: I'll be right there with you. 35 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: Danielle. Congratulations to Rainbow Raoul. I'm so excited to cuddle 36 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: up to this book and talk to Rainbow about it 37 00:01:58,520 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: next month. 38 00:01:59,320 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 4: Mm hmm. 39 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: All right, besties, it is time for wellness Wednesday, So 40 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: put a finger down. If talking about money makes you 41 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: feel uncomfortable, you're not alone. 42 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 4: You're definitely not alone. 43 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 2: In Power, which is a retirement and financial services company, 44 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 2: conducted a study last year and it revealed that over 45 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 2: sixty percent of Americans just completely avoid talking about money. 46 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 4: But there's some good news, a. 47 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 2: Bright side, if you will, because the same study found 48 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 2: that millennials fifty six percent of them and gen Z 49 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 2: forty nine percent of them are more open about talking 50 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:35,679 Speaker 2: about money than older generations. 51 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,639 Speaker 1: So I think that indicates a positive shift. And you 52 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: know what, our guest today has been part of that 53 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 1: shift because Lindsay Brian Podvin is a certified financial therapist 54 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: and author. I love that term financial therapist. She helps 55 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: people get their minds and money right by focusing on 56 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: the intersection of finance and mental health, because we all 57 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:58,359 Speaker 1: know health is wealth people. 58 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 2: And Lindsay created her own coming Any Mind Money Balance 59 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 2: to provide financial therapy, sessions and tools to help us 60 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 2: all better understand our relationship with money, so things like 61 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 2: what messages we receive from our parents and our grandparents 62 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 2: about money and ultimately help us release some of that 63 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 2: fear and anxiety around money and understand our own money story. 64 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: Lindsay is also the author of The Financial Anxiety Solution, 65 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,399 Speaker 1: an interactive workbook full of techniques to help improve our 66 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 1: relationship with money, and she has a podcast called Mind 67 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: Money Balance. 68 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 2: Okay, Simone, I think it's time for some financial therapy. Right, 69 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 2: let's do it all right, let's get into it. Lindsay, 70 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 2: Brian Podvin, Welcome to the bright Side. 71 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 3: Hi, Simon and Danielle. I'm so happy to be here. 72 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 4: We're so happy to have you. 73 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: Lindsay, you took such a non linear path to get 74 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: where you are today. Before you became a financial therapist, 75 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: you actually got a degree in social work. So how 76 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: did your work in that field lead you to this 77 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: desire to talk about money and address our emotional connection 78 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: to it? 79 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 3: Such a good question. 80 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 5: So I went into the field of social work with 81 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 5: a focus on interpersonal practice and mental health. So I'm 82 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 5: able to practice therapy, and that's what I thought I 83 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,799 Speaker 5: was going to be doing. And in social work school, 84 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 5: we talked about a lot of hard things, difficult things 85 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 5: like abuse, neglect, sex, trauma, death, but we did not. 86 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 3: Talk about money. 87 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 5: And all of us have to interact with money and 88 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,479 Speaker 5: engage with money, and we all have a relationship with money, 89 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,239 Speaker 5: whether or not we think about it. So to be clear, 90 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 5: I did not think, oh, I'm going to become a 91 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 5: financial therapist. It was more or less a thing that 92 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 5: I felt like I couldn't get away from. In my 93 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 5: first job as a social worker, I was earning less 94 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 5: than I was as a waitress, and really quickly personally 95 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:54,600 Speaker 5: experienced the intersection of money and mental health. I developed 96 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 5: chronic insomnia, I had depression and anxiety that was really 97 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 5: well managed until then all of those symptoms came back 98 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 5: with a vengeance. And all of the learning that I 99 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 5: was doing around how to quote unquote be better with 100 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 5: money was telling me more or less like it's your 101 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 5: own fault, like you should stop buying lattes, you should 102 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 5: stop buying purses, stop going out on weekends, and you 103 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:18,919 Speaker 5: would just have more money. And I felt like it 104 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:23,919 Speaker 5: was incredibly dismissive and punitive and not really rooted in 105 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 5: the reality of most of our lived lives. And then professionally, 106 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 5: because I was helping people with anxiety and depression as 107 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 5: a clinician, so many of my clients were stressed about money, 108 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 5: and my job as a social worker was to say, hey, 109 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 5: here's an eight hundred number, so your electricity stays on, 110 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 5: but nothing really substantial in terms of the way we 111 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,279 Speaker 5: think and the way we feel about money. 112 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,840 Speaker 2: It's so interesting that you say that the messaging that 113 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 2: you got was so negative when I have been most 114 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 2: stressed about money. I felt so similarly. Yeah, So I 115 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 2: started reading about money and the message is I got 116 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 2: was like, basically, you just have to make more. And 117 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 2: when you're first of all, when you're young, you're like, how, like, 118 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 2: I can't work more hours? How do I just make more? 119 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 4: Yeah? 120 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,600 Speaker 5: And I think that's a piece of the puzzle here 121 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,720 Speaker 5: is that, yes, there are things we can do as individuals. 122 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 5: At the end of the day, people who are big 123 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 5: into the dollars in spreadsheets will tell you like, look, 124 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:24,359 Speaker 5: it's just a math equation. You have to spend less 125 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 5: than you earn. And that sounds great in theory if 126 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 5: it was like algebra one oh one. But the reality 127 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 5: is we live our lives and they intersect with a 128 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 5: lot of things, and we live in a place where 129 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 5: if we want to maintain friendships, oftentimes that involves spending money. 130 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 5: If we want to enjoy hobbies, that often involves spending money. 131 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 5: If we want to give to causes that matter to us, 132 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 5: that often involves spending money. And so to pretend that 133 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,039 Speaker 5: we can just isolate in our little individualistic bubble is 134 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 5: really harmful, especially on the heels of the loneliness epidemic 135 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 5: that we're in and finding out what it feels like 136 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 5: to resocialize after the pandemic. I think we're really learning 137 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 5: that we cannot just be these rugged individualists who hole 138 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 5: up and eat beans and rice every day. That may 139 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 5: work for a time, but we don't just exist within 140 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 5: the context of humans who only use money for food 141 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 5: and shelter and transportation. 142 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 4: It's so true. 143 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: And I think as we get older and spend more 144 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: time in reflection, we realize how much our relationship with 145 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: money is really impacted by how we were raised and 146 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: the narratives that we heard about money growing up. So 147 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: can you unpack how early memories about money shape our 148 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:40,679 Speaker 1: perception of money today. 149 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 5: We start our relationship with money at a much younger age. 150 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 5: Research shows that by the time we're about seven or 151 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 5: eight years old, we have more or less created a 152 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 5: money story. And when I say a money story, these 153 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 5: are things like money is the root of all evil, 154 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 5: or you can't take it to the grave, so you 155 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 5: might as well spend it, or we don't talk about 156 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 5: money it's rude. How do hearing those types of things 157 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 5: impact your relationship with money? So what was the message 158 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 5: that you got there that money is taboo. It's something 159 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 5: that feels a little bit anxiety provoking or uncomfortable. And 160 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 5: so when we get those messages as young children, we 161 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 5: tend to try and stay safe, given the lessons that 162 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 5: we've learned and the meaning that we've given them. So 163 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 5: if I have learned that money is the root of 164 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 5: all evil, that might then shape me as an adult 165 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 5: to put off looking at my budget, to put off 166 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 5: negotiating for rays, to not doing things like filing my 167 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 5: taxes or taking a look at my credit score because 168 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 5: I think that engaging with money is somehow inherently bad. Conversely, 169 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 5: if you have someone who's like, if you have money, 170 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 5: you'll never have problems, you might find that you are 171 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 5: laser focused on earning income and accruing wealth at the 172 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 5: expense potentially of your relationships, your physical health, your mental health. 173 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 5: So these money messages that we get early on shape 174 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 5: the way that we engage with money and the behaviors 175 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 5: that we make as adults. 176 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: Okay, we have to take a quick break, but we'll 177 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:09,319 Speaker 1: be right back with more from financial therapist Lindsay Brian Podvin. 178 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 2: And we're back with financial therapist Lindsay Brian Podvin. 179 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: I grew up in a home where I had one 180 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: parent who I think talked about money in a healthy way, 181 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: and then I had another parent who really had a 182 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: scarcity mindset whenever they talked about money. And I find 183 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: myself now as a parent trying to consciously override some 184 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: of that programming and modeling. And I'd love to hear 185 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: from you, how do we override those early money memories 186 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: and associations. 187 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, I love. 188 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 5: That question because I think so many of us, once 189 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 5: we start to go on our financial healing journeys, we 190 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 5: feel like it's too late, or if we have kids, 191 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 5: we want to do some of the subconscious or subliminal 192 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 5: messages we've sent to them. And I think one of 193 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 5: the first things to do is just acknowledge with compassion 194 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 5: why we do what we do or why we did 195 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 5: what we did, knowing that again, our brains as humans 196 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 5: are wired. 197 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 4: To keep us safe. 198 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 5: So if for example, we have a scarcity mindset, it 199 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 5: may have come from a very real place of growing 200 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 5: up in poverty or not trusting the banking system. This 201 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 5: is super common with immigrants, refugees, folks who maybe are 202 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 5: undocumented and couldn't have some of the same financial accessibility 203 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 5: as others. So if you learned that messaging from a 204 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 5: parent or a caregiver, even if you personally didn't experience it, 205 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 5: you can say to yourself, it makes sense that I 206 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 5: experience this anxiety around money disappearing, But when I really 207 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 5: look at what's going on financially, I'm in an okay state. 208 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 3: Or maybe I'm not. Maybe I'm really on shaky ground. 209 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 5: It's about acknowledging where you're at and also acknowledging what 210 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 5: are the things that I can do differently, what are 211 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 5: the things that I can change, and what are the 212 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 5: things that I can't. Right, maybe you do have the 213 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 5: capacity to negotiate for a raise or move to an 214 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 5: apartment that's a little bit more affordable, but maybe you 215 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 5: actually don't. And so how can we sit with the 216 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 5: differences between the two, Because I think, again, in the 217 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 5: world of personal finance, it is so thrown at us 218 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 5: that we have the power to do all of these things, 219 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 5: when in reality, we do have some power, we do 220 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 5: have some agency and autonomy, and there are certain things 221 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 5: that we just don't have control over. 222 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 2: So I think part of that acknowledgment that you're talking 223 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 2: about is self awareness as to what your financial archetype is, 224 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 2: and you have this quiz, I did take it, So 225 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:45,199 Speaker 2: I'm going to share that section. What are the four 226 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 2: archetypes that people can be? 227 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, they can be blissfully ignorant, the admirer, the doomsday prepper, 228 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 5: and the free spirit. I tend to see people who 229 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 5: are like helpers, healers, artists more likely to fall into 230 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,559 Speaker 5: that bliss in different category, right, because those are professions 231 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 5: that we tend to say, like, you're not in this 232 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 5: for the money. You do it because you love the 233 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 5: arts or you love to help. So I tend to 234 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 5: see that for the doomsday propper. The folks who I 235 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 5: tend to see fall into that category are folks who 236 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 5: have a lineage of true scarcity. So again this is 237 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 5: often people who are immigrants, refugees may have had financial 238 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 5: big TA traumas happen either personally or in their lineage, 239 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 5: and so holding on tightly to money is a way 240 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 5: to stay safe. When it comes to the money admirer, 241 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 5: those are often folks who I see a pretty even 242 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 5: split here of people who fall into the money admirer type. 243 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:43,079 Speaker 5: Either the ones who are like that I'll show you type, right, 244 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 5: So you tell me, I can't do it, watch me 245 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 5: do it. That kind of type or the type who 246 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 5: has really associated achievement with a part of their worth. 247 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 3: And then the free spirit. 248 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 5: Those tend to be people, and again this is a 249 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 5: pretty even split of people who grew up hearing things 250 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 5: like we can't afford it, or you can't take it 251 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:02,719 Speaker 5: to the grave, so you might as well use it. 252 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 5: So the free spirit, as the name indicates, as the 253 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 5: ones who's like, yeah, let's go away for that weekend, 254 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 5: or yeah, let's order a round of top us, or yeah, 255 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:11,839 Speaker 5: you should buy that thing. Right. 256 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 3: They're kind of the instigator. They're lovely to have. 257 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 5: In your orbit, but not always great if you're trying 258 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 5: to work out a savings school. And what I want 259 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 5: to be clear about with the archetypes is that often 260 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 5: in the world of psychology or even in the world 261 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 5: of social work, we are doing a lot of diagnosing 262 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 5: and saying here's what's bad, here's what's wrong, here's what 263 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 5: you need to fix. And in my world, I think 264 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 5: that we need to take a more strength spased approach, 265 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 5: to more balanced approach and say, hey, yeah, here are 266 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 5: some things that you might be doing that aren't so great. 267 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:43,959 Speaker 5: But also look at your unique strengths and how can 268 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 5: you leverage those to have a healthier relationship with money. 269 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 2: I like how you worded it. I came out to 270 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 2: be the doomsday prepper. It talks about what your strengths 271 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 2: are and then what your challenges are. I didn't think 272 00:13:57,679 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 2: I was going to be the doomsday prepper. 273 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 4: I thought I had an abundant mindset. So what are you, 274 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 4: I'm so curious. 275 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm blissfully indifferent. 276 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 5: Like I would rather not look at my money if 277 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:10,719 Speaker 5: I didn't have to. I don't want to know what's 278 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 5: going on. I just want to live my life. Money 279 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 5: is kind of in the background, but I don't want 280 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 5: to deal with it truly. To be clear, I did 281 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 5: not think this was my path in life, and then 282 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 5: when I really had to face it, had on really 283 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 5: getting clear on what works for me and what doesn't 284 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 5: like it just kept like literally hitting me in the 285 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 5: face and like, Okay, I guess I have to do something. 286 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 5: Care So with my archetype, the strength is that I 287 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 5: don't want to look at money. I don't want to 288 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 5: be in the weeds. And so for me, the way 289 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 5: that I leverage that is using automated systems. I have 290 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 5: a paycheck routine that when I am paid, money is 291 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 5: automatically being funneled into different places, not only to my bills, 292 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 5: like my expenses that I have to pay, but I 293 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 5: also treat my savings like a bill, so I have 294 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 5: auto save turned on for things like an emergency fund 295 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 5: to a vacation fund to a pet emergency fund. Right, 296 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 5: so I'm automatically saving money too, And so keeping that 297 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 5: hands off approach actually works really really well for me 298 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 5: because I don't want to be looking at my bank 299 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 5: account every day. 300 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 2: Well, in therapy they always say like the first step 301 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 2: is just self awareness and acknowledgment, and I think that 302 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 2: this really shows up in this quiz. It's not a 303 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 2: negative thing. It's so great to have information about your 304 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 2: habits and your skill sets. So I really really like this, Lindsay. 305 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: I was thinking about the awareness factor too as I 306 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: was reading my results. It's funny I thought I was 307 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: going to be the money admirer. I actually am the 308 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: money admirer. Good things about that is that I have 309 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: become a lot more comfortable in vocalizing my desire for 310 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: money or even just like talking about money as a woman. 311 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: That's something that, like I've had to become more comfortable with. 312 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: But one of the challenges is this lack of satisfaction 313 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: with whatever the current amount is. And that's something that 314 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: I've become acutely aware of the last like three or 315 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: four years. I think it coincides with my journey as 316 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: a mom. But like you said, Danielle, just being aware 317 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: of some of the shortcomings of this archetype is super helpful. 318 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 2: We have to take another short break, but we'll be 319 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 2: back in just a minute. 320 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 4: Don't go anywhere, and we're back. 321 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: So the takeaway for our audience, though, Lindsay, I hope 322 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: I'm right on this. We can change our archetypes, right. 323 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 3: Good question. 324 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 5: So it's not necessarily about changing the archetype, because it's 325 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 5: not that this one archetype is the one who's best 326 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 5: with money and that's what we should all want to be. 327 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 5: It's much more you are who you are and that's 328 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 5: a beautiful thing. So instead of wanting to kind of 329 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 5: shape shift into something else, how can you embrace your 330 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 5: unique strengths and take the time to dial down some 331 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 5: of the behaviors or the thought patterns that aren't really 332 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 5: serving you. They might have served you at some point 333 00:16:58,200 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 5: in time, but they aren't right now. 334 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 2: When you were talking about the doomsday prepper and the 335 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 2: lineage of trauma, I was thinking about my family. There 336 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 2: is scarcity because of trauma, and I talk about this 337 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,479 Speaker 2: with my dad a lot. There's a huge difference in 338 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 2: how generations view money. What are you seeing as the 339 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 2: key differences between Boomer's millennials and now Gen Z in 340 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 2: terms of how they need your finances? 341 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I could go on about this forever. 342 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 5: Never has there been a time where the generational divide 343 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 5: is so stark in my opinion, especially when it comes 344 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 5: to money, because again, there are some real systemic things 345 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 5: that shape the way we think and feel and behave 346 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 5: about money. Boomers quite literally were born into an economy 347 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 5: where you could have one person working a blue collar 348 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 5: job and take care of a family with a stay 349 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 5: at home parent, and buy a house and go on 350 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 5: a vacation and have a second car. So they really 351 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,479 Speaker 5: learned if you work hard and save some money, you 352 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 5: can have the American dream. But that American dream financially speaking, 353 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 5: started to crumble pretty quickly thereafter. Gen X they kind 354 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 5: of joke that they're the latchkey kids, right, But they're 355 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 5: the people who are kind of the worker bees behind 356 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 5: the scenes, and rightfully, they have a little chip on 357 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 5: their shoulder because the economy just wasn't the same as 358 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 5: it was with the boomers millennials. As you've heard, we 359 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 5: see a headline basically every week that says millennials killed 360 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,440 Speaker 5: X and you know, they killed the housing market, they 361 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 5: killed avocado to those chain restaurants, the malls, like it's 362 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 5: all our fault. But we really have an interesting relationship 363 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,920 Speaker 5: because we were kind of raised by folks who told us, 364 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 5: just do what you love and money will follow. Well haha, 365 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 5: jokes on us. That is not always the case. And 366 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 5: so there's some rightful frustration there. And then you have 367 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:51,880 Speaker 5: gen Z who's like, I watched all this happen with 368 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 5: my millennial aunties and uncles or maybe siblings. I'm not 369 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 5: playing that game. And you see more of them kind 370 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 5: of opting out of the core rat race. Now, the 371 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 5: gen Zers, because they also grew up where we are 372 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:09,120 Speaker 5: talking about things like boundaries and about mental health, they 373 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 5: tend to have a bit more transparency when it comes 374 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 5: to money, and they tend to be a little bit 375 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,160 Speaker 5: more jovial about money when it comes to the way 376 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 5: we think about money and friends, and also just being 377 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 5: really clear, and I don't want to work sixty hours 378 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 5: a week and burn myself out if even doing that 379 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 5: won't allow me to buy the house. 380 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 2: Also, millennials work more hours than any other generation before us, 381 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:39,199 Speaker 2: and so I really hate the messaging that millennials are 382 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 2: lazy because it's actually statistically the opposite. 383 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 4: But that is just an aside. 384 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 2: So you mentioned friendship earlier, and friendship and money I 385 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:53,120 Speaker 2: think have become even more tied with technology. And I've 386 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 2: heard you talk about how to set boundaries around money, 387 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:00,440 Speaker 2: especially with friendships, while still valuing those friendships. So what's 388 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 2: your advice for communicating those limits. And I'm particularly interested 389 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 2: in hearing this from you because I hear a lot 390 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 2: of very stringent boundaries or ways to set limits, and 391 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 2: to be honest, they don't feel applicable to me, like 392 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 2: I don't want to use this like very corporate language 393 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 2: with my best friends. 394 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:23,239 Speaker 5: So one of the most striking things for me is 395 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 5: seeing and hearing time and time again how many people 396 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 5: are desperate to talk to other people about money. And 397 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 5: if we think about the types of conversations we can 398 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 5: have with our friends about everything from like parenting, to 399 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 5: our sex lives to mental health, like we can certainly 400 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 5: talk about money. And one thing to keep in mind 401 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 5: when you're setting a boundary with a friend around money 402 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,199 Speaker 5: is what is the alternative way that you want to 403 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 5: be in community with them and spend time with them 404 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,639 Speaker 5: instead of just saying no, I can't afford it, or no, 405 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 5: that's not in my budget and have a conversation that 406 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:58,679 Speaker 5: might sound like I can't afford that right now, but 407 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 5: what I can do is x Y is really really important. 408 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 5: You don't have to get fully into the weeds, but 409 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 5: you can be really clear and say, look, this summer, 410 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 5: I'm being much more mindful about where and how I'm 411 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 5: spending my money. And so that means I'm just doing 412 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,919 Speaker 5: like one thing a weekend. This weekend, I'm already booked, 413 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:16,879 Speaker 5: So why don't we go for a walk instead, or 414 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 5: why don't you bring your kids over and we can 415 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 5: have a plate instead, Like being clear about what's going 416 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 5: on in a way that still feels comfortable and safe 417 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 5: to you. 418 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: Lindsay, your platform is called Mind Money Balance, and I 419 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 1: love that you include the term balance in there. Because 420 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: I think there's this tendency, especially in a capitalistic culture 421 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: like America, to see financial planning as dry, rigid, stressful. 422 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 1: How can we embrace fun in our financial futures? Yeah? 423 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 4: I love this question. 424 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 5: I think a part of it is realizing that money 425 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,640 Speaker 5: is neutral. We are the ones who associate meaning to it, 426 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 5: and it is also a tool, and we have the 427 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 5: opportunity to say, here's how I want choose my money 428 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 5: in a way that supports my lifestyle, in a way 429 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 5: that supports my values. When I spend money in this category, 430 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 5: say travel, or restaurants or sustainable food, I feel really good. 431 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,880 Speaker 5: I feel really supported, I feel really thankful. And when 432 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 5: I spend money in ways that I'm not super excited about, 433 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 5: I feel less excited, less proud, less thankful. So really 434 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:25,199 Speaker 5: thinking about what is money affording you the ability to do? 435 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 5: And how can money be another outlet to live in 436 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 5: alignment with your values? 437 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,640 Speaker 2: So good, lindsay, thank you so much for joining us 438 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:34,400 Speaker 2: on the bright side. 439 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 4: It's been wonderful. 440 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:37,640 Speaker 3: It's been such a joy. Thank you both so much 441 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:38,159 Speaker 3: for having me. 442 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 1: I love your perspective and I'm so glad that you 443 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: came here to share it. 444 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:42,160 Speaker 2: With us. 445 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 1: Lindsay Brian Podvin is a certified financial therapist, licensed social worker, 446 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,400 Speaker 1: founder of the financial wellness platform Mind, Money, Balance, and 447 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 1: Cash Apps Financial Therapist. She's the author of the Financial 448 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 1: Anxiety Solution. 449 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 4: That's It. 450 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 2: For today's show, Tomorrow, Sports Broadcasting Hall of Famer Andrea 451 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 2: Joyce will be checking in with us straight from the 452 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 2: Paris Olympics. Listen and follow the bright Side on the 453 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 454 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: I'm Simone boys. You can find me at Simone Boice 455 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: on Instagram and TikTok. 456 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 2: I'm Danielle Robe on Instagram and TikTok. 457 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 4: That's ro b A. 458 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 1: Y See you tomorrow, folks. Keep looking on the bright side.