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Speaker 1: Native lampod is production of iHeartRadio and partnership with Reisent

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Speaker 1: Choice Media. So on Tuesday May fifth, NLCOG Tiffany D.

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Speaker 1: Cross as a book coming out to the masses, Love Me,

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Speaker 1: a letter to Black women in a toxic country, career

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Speaker 1: and relationship.

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Speaker 2: Look at that beautiful book cover.

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Speaker 1: We want you all to make sure if you haven't

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Speaker 1: ordered it yet, go and order it now. Tip would say,

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Speaker 1: from a smaller bookstore, especially a black owned bookstore, just

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Speaker 1: so y'all know. Pro tip if you order from an

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Speaker 1: independent bookstore and there are multiple and lots of different

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Speaker 1: communities and cities around the country, that helps folks to

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Speaker 1: get on the New York Times bestsellers list, and then

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Speaker 1: we know that's where she belongs. So Tip, talk to

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Speaker 1: us a little bit about this book. What inspired it,

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Speaker 1: How is the journey going. You're on the other side

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Speaker 1: of writing now, how do you feel?

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Speaker 3: I feel great.

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Speaker 2: You're all in the book.

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Speaker 4: I write in the book about Angela Bakari and Andrew.

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Speaker 3: It is an expose.

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Speaker 4: Let's tell all of the behind the scenes of what

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Speaker 4: happens at NLP.

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Speaker 5: No.

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Speaker 3: I feel really good. You know this was years in.

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Speaker 4: The making and it definitely touches on a lot of

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Speaker 4: the topics that we talked about over the years on

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Speaker 4: the podcast. It was helpful because a lot of times

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Speaker 4: I'd be doing research for something in the book and

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Speaker 4: it would be something we would talk about on the show,

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Speaker 4: which was awesome and a privilege to do. But essentially,

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Speaker 4: just so folks know, and again, please buy from a

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Speaker 4: black owned or independent book store. They don't all report

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Speaker 4: to the New York Times, so ask if they're New

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Speaker 4: York Times reporting. But I want people to have the

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Speaker 4: hard copy that you guys saw, because this cover is

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Speaker 4: designed to be decoration in your house. I was very intentional.

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Speaker 4: I was involved in every part of the book. But

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Speaker 4: I wrote the book in three sections Our Labor, where

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Speaker 4: I talk about Black women pouring love into our careers,

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Speaker 4: but our careers are not pouring love back into us,

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Speaker 4: especially in this anti DEI environment, and we're facing a

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Speaker 4: very hostile workforce that's unkind to us, openly unkind to us,

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Speaker 4: encouraged to be openly unkind to us. I write Our

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Speaker 4: Land because navigating this country pouring love into this country,

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Speaker 4: and we know this country, damn sharing pooring love back

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Speaker 4: into us and our love you know, we pour love

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Speaker 4: into our counterparts. If you're a heterosexual woman and a

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Speaker 4: relationship or desiring of a relationship, we pour love into

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Speaker 4: our counterparts. And I won't say that black men don't

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Speaker 4: love us back, because I don't believe that, but we

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Speaker 4: don't always feel that love back. And so I wanted

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Speaker 4: to just talk about all these things.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 4: I write about what happened with my show getting canceled,

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Speaker 4: and my heart was broken at that time, and that

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Speaker 4: just happened to be the time where the election was

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Speaker 4: happening and the country just it became a socially acceptable

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Speaker 4: thing to say few black women, and my heart was breaking.

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Speaker 4: And then I was dating someone and that situation was ending,

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Speaker 4: and my heart was breaking, and I was talking to

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Speaker 4: our friend Van new Kirk at the way and he's like,

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Speaker 4: you sound like every black woman I know. And so

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Speaker 4: that is when I really just put my focus into

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Speaker 4: writing the book.

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Speaker 2: And it has been.

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Speaker 4: A wonderful journey through my own mental health, but also

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Speaker 4: an examination of what's happening with black women, a snapshot

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Speaker 4: of this American rot that is happening as black women

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Speaker 4: have tried to save it. And this isn't I want

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Speaker 4: to be really clear. This is not a book, and Andrew,

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Speaker 4: I love your thoughts, but this is not a book

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Speaker 4: that is bashing anybody, but something that just acknowledges what

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Speaker 4: we're experiencing and also acknowledges that our men who we

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Speaker 4: are trying to love are carrying their own pain too.

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Speaker 4: And I have to say with you know, because so

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Speaker 4: many people are talking about this, with Megan the Stallion

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Speaker 4: and Klay Thompson, I think.

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Speaker 3: That resonate question. Never mind Angela has We're.

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Speaker 4: Going to go to a host question right now from.

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Speaker 3: Angela Rye, who you can find three four Yes, I'm

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Speaker 3: taking creak.

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Speaker 1: Well, Tim, you just said that we don't always feel

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Speaker 1: that love pour back into us, and you do a

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Speaker 1: masterful job in the book talking through like your love

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Speaker 1: affair with and for journalism, the heartbreak of being treated differently,

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Speaker 1: even talking about like a boss throwing money at you

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Speaker 1: across the table, which I wanted to jump to the

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Speaker 1: page and beat that home.

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Speaker 2: But then a black woman was your salvation.

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Speaker 1: Tracy Web, who was the car ride to work that

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Speaker 1: you know you needed.

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Speaker 2: So shout out to every Tracy Web out there.

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Speaker 1: But you know there's a loosely related media collective heartbreak

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Speaker 1: happening right now, and it has to do with the

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Speaker 1: PBS logo otherwise known as Clay Tommers. So for those

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Speaker 1: of you who haven't seen it, they said, he looked

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Speaker 1: just like the PBS logo, and he turned to the side.

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Speaker 2: He do kind of look like the PBS logo. So

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Speaker 2: I want to not tip if you have.

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Speaker 1: Any words for Meg on the other side of your

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Speaker 1: own heartbreak in the various ways they've come through this country,

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Speaker 1: betrayal through you know, a career that you love and

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Speaker 1: are so deeply passionate about. We certainly saw it every

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Speaker 1: week on NLP journalism, kind of feeling like it turned

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Speaker 1: its back on you. And then of course in your

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Speaker 1: own love relationships. What words of affirmation and encouragement do

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Speaker 1: you have for Meg right now?

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Speaker 2: And then can you say something to.

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Speaker 1: The brothers who feel under attack when we're not even

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Speaker 1: talking to y'all, we talking to the PBS, Lookay saying

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Speaker 1: some of them too, so they don't, you know, act

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Speaker 1: like a hit dog hollering sorry, not a dog tif

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Speaker 1: a horse salehorse.

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Speaker 4: Yes, well, I first want to say Tracy Webb was

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Speaker 4: one of the people who saved me in my career

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Speaker 4: and you can read the story and this isn't a memoir.

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Speaker 4: This is just you know, pieces of my story, but

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Speaker 4: in the larger context of black women. But I just

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Speaker 4: want to say to you, Angela, like you have been

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Speaker 4: a tracy web to so many people, but also in

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Speaker 4: my life when I was going through this and this

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Speaker 4: is you know, related to Meg because the first time

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Speaker 4: I heard the term a journey home to yourself, it

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Speaker 4: was you saying it to me and we were kind

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Speaker 4: of arguing about the guy I was dating at the time,

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Speaker 4: and you were like, you know, on your journey home

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Speaker 4: to yourself, I hope you realize and you like went

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Speaker 4: through a bunch of things, and I think that is

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Speaker 4: probably the best advice because we look at Megan, you know,

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Speaker 4: at a certain age. I'm forty seven years old, and

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Speaker 4: so I look at younger women who are like thirty,

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Speaker 4: and I just think, oh, you know, there's a knowing

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Speaker 4: at this age, there's a wisdom, a weathering at this age.

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Speaker 4: And I look at her and her heartbreak, and it's

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Speaker 4: a journey that helps you seek the source of self

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Speaker 4: and there is a self love that has to be developed.

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Speaker 4: And I hate seeing all these comments because I talk

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Speaker 4: about this too, how women can be awful to other women,

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Speaker 4: And it's like, girl, you were posting them all over

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Speaker 4: social media, and you know, I knew it wouldn't go

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Speaker 4: last once you started doing that, as if posting a

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Speaker 4: picture of this man or videos of this man and

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Speaker 4: somehow invited her own heartbreak, you know, like instead of

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Speaker 4: just covering her with love. But I would say that,

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Speaker 4: you know, love is still in her life. Improbable for her.

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Speaker 4: She lost her mother and so I imagine she connected

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Speaker 4: with his family and there's a brokenness there that sometimes

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Speaker 4: we seek outside ourselves to fill ourselves up. It is

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Speaker 4: our natural way of being. It's our highest honor to

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Speaker 4: love another human being, to be giving of our body

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Speaker 4: and spirit to another person, a man. And when men

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Speaker 4: mangle that and hurt that and take that, I know

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Speaker 4: in my own life it's like, and I actually want

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Speaker 4: to hear your thoughts on this too, Angeline. I want

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Speaker 4: to hear Bakari and Andrew too as men here. But

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Speaker 4: I felt like in my life there was a container,

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Speaker 4: the container of love, and the faucet was pouring into

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Speaker 4: that container and there was no drain, so it was overflowing.

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Speaker 4: Because as black women we don't just have a desire.

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Speaker 2: To be loved.

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Speaker 4: We have a desire to love, and so when we

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Speaker 4: find someone to pour that into, we are overflowing. And

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Speaker 4: then over time, when the choices we make are just

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Speaker 4: the weathering of our love that spick, it starts to

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Speaker 4: turn off slowly, and then it starts to drip. And

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Speaker 4: as we're hurt, there's a drain that develops. These holes

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Speaker 4: start to draink and the love that we have so

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Speaker 4: fulla that we're born overflowing, it starts to pour out.

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Speaker 4: And that's you know, through trauma and childhood, just life,

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Speaker 4: you know, breakups, heartache, and I felt that love emptying

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Speaker 4: out from myself and so I had to find a

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Speaker 4: way to plug those holes and get that faucet turned

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Speaker 4: back on for myself. And I hope that Megan has

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Speaker 4: a beautiful journey as that false. I wish she could

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Speaker 4: have the same conversation we had Angela, where you tell

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Speaker 4: her on your journey home to yourself.

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Speaker 3: This is what I would love to see for you.

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Speaker 4: But just to know that people are wrapping their arms

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Speaker 4: around her and it doesn't it's not of you know,

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Speaker 4: some sort of referendum on you know, all black men.

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Speaker 4: There are hundreds of thousands, millions of black men loving

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Speaker 4: on Black way men every day, but we do need

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Speaker 4: to be honest about men hurt us sometimes. Now I

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Speaker 4: don't mean like physically violent, that's a another conversation. Emotionally

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Speaker 4: we feel hurt, and emotionally we feel drained carrying our

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Speaker 4: pain and other men's pain too.

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Speaker 2: What's hopeful in the book, Tiff?

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Speaker 3: What do you?

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Speaker 2: How do you get people hope? And then why would I?

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Speaker 2: And then why would have? Why would have?

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Speaker 5: What should we tell our brothers a reason for them

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Speaker 5: to pick up the book in terms of something they

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Speaker 5: can garner from it?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I hope men buy the book because I do

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Speaker 4: think it gives great insight into what black women are

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Speaker 4: going through. And y'all have mamas and sisters and cousins

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Speaker 4: and daughters and girlfriends and wives, and I think it

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Speaker 4: does strike a balance with hey, here's how we feel.

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Speaker 4: And I, you know, I hope it offers insight that

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Speaker 4: you won't get anywhere else, because I do say the

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Speaker 4: quiet parts out loud. I say those dark thoughts that

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Speaker 4: I have out loud that women might be afraid to

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Speaker 4: say at brunch tables with each other I try to

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Speaker 4: share that, and the hope is giving ourselves something to believe.

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Speaker 4: And we kind of talked about this in Atlanta Bakari

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Speaker 4: on stage. It's like before when we talk about black women,

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Speaker 4: particularly in politics, were talked about as a political commodity.

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Speaker 4: So before you ask me to go out here and

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Speaker 4: save America, like, I need you to realize, I'm a

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Speaker 4: whole human being right here with a beating and broken heart,

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Speaker 4: and my heart is breaking for a lot of reasons.

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Speaker 4: So before I can get back out here and save

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Speaker 4: something that hasn't really served me in a righteous way

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Speaker 4: given what I poured into this place, I need to

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Speaker 4: heal myself and I need everybody to give us a

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Speaker 4: second to read. Don't mistake our out of office, Like

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Speaker 4: we're not out here doing shit and moving strategically. But

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Speaker 4: I need to, for a second give myself something to

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Speaker 4: believe in. So to me, that's the hopeful part. And

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Speaker 4: I you know, I'm very clear, I don't have the

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Speaker 4: answers figured out, but this is what the journey for

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Speaker 4: me looks like. And I'm not telling people what to think,

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Speaker 4: but I'm offering up some things for people to think about.

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Speaker 5: You know, One I just want to say thank you,

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Speaker 5: Tiffany because the the you were so naked and raw

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Speaker 5: in your writing. And how I know that is because

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Speaker 5: of how vividly you wrote, extremely detailed that you know,

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Speaker 5: I was only playing with you from Miami. I was,

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Speaker 5: you know, you and your brother playing with you know,

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Speaker 5: you're playing with Barbie and he steals you can you know,

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Speaker 5: to have you as you described, you know our brother

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Speaker 5: Michael's you know, family home, and uh, you know I was.

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Speaker 5: I was right there rocking with yall to Bakari's question

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Speaker 5: around men, because I had a similar What I wanted

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Speaker 5: to hear what your pitch might be since it's openly

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Speaker 5: a love letter to women, is that I found myself

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Speaker 5: mapping my actions, my behavior may be my thoughts along

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Speaker 5: with Gray. And I don't like Gray, but but great, okay,

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Speaker 5: but gray in the book. But I also like that

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Speaker 5: he's gray because and you say this, it is a pseudonym.

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Speaker 5: It is not the person's real name is gray, because,

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Speaker 5: as Tiffany says in the book, it's because of how

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Speaker 5: she's made to feel. Huh, what'd you say? Okay, okay, okay.

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Speaker 5: All I wanted to say is I like that it's

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Speaker 5: great because we can fill in the dot that's me

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Speaker 5: on occasion, that was me on occasion. This is how

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Speaker 5: I might conduct myself differently now that I have a

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Speaker 5: window into how it may have made my partner feel.

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Speaker 5: And then it starts to explain, now I know better

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Speaker 5: why the reaction was the reaction that it was, because

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Speaker 5: I'm living and operating in the the logistics of it all,

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Speaker 5: like you realize that that's not possible. This is not

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Speaker 5: the third and she's looking for a whole different The

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Speaker 5: response is in a different stratosphere, but my head isn't there,

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Speaker 5: So there's some miscommunication and misinterpretations that happen all along

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Speaker 5: the way. And I don't mean this just in the

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Speaker 5: relationship between men and women, but public policy and the

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Speaker 5: way in which you interface the public policy and their

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Speaker 5: implications with people's everyday real lives. So thank you for

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Speaker 5: the vividness around that, And for brothers, it is if you,

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Speaker 5: if you want to know and map yourself a little

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Speaker 5: bit better at any age that we're at, because part

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Speaker 5: of me could relate today and part of me could

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Speaker 5: have related twenty years ago, then this is something you

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Speaker 5: ought to pick up as a better understanding and as

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Speaker 5: a window into what what our counterparts might be thinking, feeling,

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Speaker 5: and experiencing based on what we are doing, which is

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Speaker 5: also driven by how we think and feel. So often

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Speaker 5: I wanted to know whether or not in the writing

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Speaker 5: of this was there a Catharsis, Like, as I'm thinking

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Speaker 5: about my own writing, I'm like, do you reach a

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Speaker 5: point of ex Helle where it's like, Okay, set this

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Speaker 5: society and now this journey forward looks a little different

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Speaker 5: for me based off of the fact that I have

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Speaker 5: set this to the side. I'm curious how you know,

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Speaker 5: personally you feel whether this was a Catharsism where you

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Speaker 5: feel it it sets you up for now?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 4: I Mean it's funny because when my publisher before she

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Speaker 4: signed me, she asked, was I in therapy? She said

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Speaker 4: that she has like authors breakdown or authors go through things,

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Speaker 4: and she's like, I want to make sure that you're

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Speaker 4: prepared for the journey that this writing will take you on.

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Speaker 4: So there were many times I would revisit something from

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Speaker 4: my childhood or you know, this a heartache where I

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Speaker 4: would find myself writing and I'm just weeping as I

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Speaker 4: write because I would be reading the story thinking, oh,

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Speaker 4: I feel so bad for this person who this happened,

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Speaker 4: and even revisiting some of the things that happened at MSNBC,

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Speaker 4: it was like I was so disconnected from myself. I'm like, damn,

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Speaker 4: this is stuff that this happened to this person and

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Speaker 4: she is I and I am she like I am

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Speaker 4: one and the same. So to revisit some of those

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Speaker 4: painful moments, yes they can. It was like years later

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Speaker 4: I was feeling, you know, this multi billion company, multi

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Speaker 4: billon dollar company trying to destroy me and one of

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Speaker 4: the women who was so destructive also try to destroy

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Speaker 4: the car, which I'll read about the book, but it's just,

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Speaker 4: you know, terrible things that that happened. But again, I

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Speaker 4: you know, the one thing that was always consistent with

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Speaker 4: me is oh I was never really alone, you know.

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Speaker 4: I mean I write about you know, you guys can

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Speaker 4: read about it, and again it's not a memoir, like

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Speaker 4: it's a little bit of my story. But in my

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Speaker 4: worst moment, I wasn't like on the couch eating ice

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Speaker 4: cream crying. I might have wanted to be, but Angela

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Speaker 4: was like, let's get to Atlanta, and so we were

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Speaker 4: in it. Literally we weren't.

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Speaker 2: We weren't going to the Strip club.

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Speaker 4: We were speaking like Angela kept saying, no, you need

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Speaker 4: to be with people, you need to see the people.

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Speaker 4: And so we went to NAACP meeting, We went to

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Speaker 4: Melanie Campbell's MDBCP meeting. We were on stage weekend at

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Speaker 4: Voting Rights because this was a few days before midterms

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Speaker 4: and so, but also we were just like together.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 4: We ended up taking a trip to Paris after that,

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Speaker 4: and that togetherness healed a lot of heartbreak from the man,

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Speaker 4: heartbreak from the country. I remember the day after the election,

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Speaker 4: we all went and ate me Andrew Baccari.

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Speaker 3: I don't remember if you were there or not, but it.

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Speaker 4: Was like, yeah, but no, it wasn't NLP, it was

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Speaker 4: all of us.

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Speaker 3: It was like every.

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Speaker 4: Thought leader, every black person. We were like, let's just

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Speaker 4: be together. And so I just wanted to punctuate there

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Speaker 4: is safety in our togetherness. And I hate when people

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Speaker 4: stand up and it's like, you know, how can we

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Speaker 4: get black people to be together? And I'm like, name

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Speaker 4: another community more together than us. I don't know anybody

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Speaker 4: more united then black folks in America. We have such

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Speaker 4: a common experience and that exists among all of us,

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Speaker 4: like all the black people listening. I don't know y'all,

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Speaker 4: but I know y'all so well. But then when it

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Speaker 4: gets to black women, there are such a deeper level

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Speaker 4: of intimacy among ourselves. I think there's just something unspoken.

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Speaker 4: Angela and I are at a conference right now, shout

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Speaker 4: out to Kimberly Blackwell, thank you for having us, but

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Speaker 4: accelerate her. And there's a room full of black women.

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Speaker 4: I don't know, I probably know what twenty thirty percent

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Speaker 4: of the women here, but I know all of these women,

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Speaker 4: and I feel safe. I feel relaxed, I feel comfortable,

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Speaker 4: And so this is just I want people to feel

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Speaker 4: that way in these pages. To wrap yourselves in the pages,

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Speaker 4: and thank you Andrew for what you said, because I

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Speaker 4: don't think men necessarily know how much that hurts. I

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Speaker 4: don't know that Klay Thompson knows how devastating that must

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Speaker 4: have been for Megan after losing her mother, and I

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Speaker 4: imagine she probably needed some mothering herself. So being ingratiated

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Speaker 4: in his family, being around people, you know, having holidays

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Speaker 4: and it is traveling together like that is where you

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Speaker 4: start to question your worthiness, you know, you start to

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Speaker 4: question just is love meant for you, you know, not

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Speaker 4: even romantic love, but is you know, is a life

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Speaker 4: of ease and peace meant for you? And I don't

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Speaker 4: think men necessarily, that's not your intention in the ways

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Speaker 4: we hurt. But I hope it can paint a picture

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Speaker 4: for yeh if you're having fun, you're having fun at

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Speaker 4: our goddamn expense. And at this moment in time, we're

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Speaker 4: a little tired of it, you know, like we so

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Speaker 4: it is a time for us to just huddle and

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Speaker 4: get ourselves together and just tap into our self love

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Speaker 4: and the best way. But I want to ask because

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Speaker 4: Angela has said like that journey home to self. And

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Speaker 4: I'm very unfiltered in the book, like I you know there,

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Speaker 4: I'm a little uptight at the things I share. And

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Speaker 4: I'll be on book tour with a lot of our girls,

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Speaker 4: kicking off on May fourth in Brooklyn, So please come

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Speaker 4: see me, but I'll be I'll be in Philly, Chicago.

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Speaker 4: You can go to my website to get tickets.

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Speaker 1: Native Lampard is a production of iHeart Radio and partnership

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