Speaker 1: Tonight's classic episode is one of our favorite continuing obsessions. Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: have you guys ever done astral travel? Can you do it?
Speaker 2: I thought you were gonna say acid.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, there's a Venn diagram there. There
Speaker 1: might be astral projection, like of my consciousness out into
Speaker 1: the cosmos to places that I don't belong or perhaps
Speaker 1: have not experienced corporeally.
Speaker 3: Have you guys not seen me hang out in y'all's bedrooms?
Speaker 1: Oh no, I was wondering what that ghostly outline was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's why. That's why you can see be suddenly performing
Speaker 1: acappella carriok maat, that's that parts for you?
Speaker 2: Oh okay, so we are.
Speaker 1: We are talking about not just the fun thought experiment
Speaker 1: conversations regarding what is called remote viewing, But in this
Speaker 1: episode we explore the very true story of how Uncle
Speaker 1: Sam paid for intelligence officers as part of their job,
Speaker 1: to attempt remote viewing at a place called the Monroe Institute.
Speaker 2: Let's get right into it.
Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 1: learn this stuff. They don't want you to know a
Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show.
Speaker 3: My name is Matt Noel is on an adventure.
Speaker 1: They call me Ben, and you're joined as always with
Speaker 1: our super producer Paul, Mission control decand most importantly, you
Speaker 1: are you. You are here and that makes this stuff
Speaker 1: They don't want you to know. Uh mission control quick
Speaker 1: check in thumbs up, thumbs down, Oh wow, a thumbs
Speaker 1: up with a with an on and onward and upward motion.
Speaker 1: So someone's excited about the weekend. It is Friday as
Speaker 1: we record this. How about you, Matt, any big plans? Oh?
Speaker 3: I'm so excited to mow my lawn and clean the
Speaker 3: house and do things that I don't always get to do.
Speaker 1: Hey, you're not going to storm Area fifty one.
Speaker 2: I thought about it and find them aliens. No, and
Speaker 2: probably not.
Speaker 3: Just a shout out here. There's a there's a I
Speaker 3: guess a petition going around right now as we are
Speaker 3: recording this. That was just popping up in the news, CNN,
Speaker 3: Times Magazine. Everybody's talking about it. Just a heads up,
Speaker 3: if you're gonna storm a secret government facility, don't give
Speaker 3: them a giant heads up that they're gonna be thousands
Speaker 3: of you coming.
Speaker 2: Well, maybe it is.
Speaker 3: Smart to give them a heads up so you don't
Speaker 3: get shot. But at the same time, if there are
Speaker 3: extraterrestrial bodies kept somewhere on Groom Lake, they're not going
Speaker 3: to be there when you when you get there.
Speaker 1: That's a very good point. Let me perhaps comment on
Speaker 1: this with an anecdote from a friend of mine who
Speaker 1: attempted to visit Area fifty one with his brother once
Speaker 1: on a road trip, and interest of anonymity, I'm not
Speaker 1: going to give their names. This is, however, a true story.
Speaker 1: So they wanted to on a great trip out west
Speaker 1: see how close they could get to Area fifty one.
Speaker 1: The place is surrounded by signs that do you know,
Speaker 1: do notify you of when something is considered trespassing, and
Speaker 1: also notify you that it is legal for Uncle Sam
Speaker 1: to use lethal force on anyone Past that point. There
Speaker 1: will be no legal repercussions, there will be no class
Speaker 1: action lawsuit, there will be no help for you if
Speaker 1: you cross that line and get popped. So this guy's
Speaker 1: experience went the following way. They had taken believe his
Speaker 1: brother's truck and they had driven up as close as
Speaker 1: they could get and they kind of got out in
Speaker 1: front of one of those signs. But as they're getting out,
Speaker 1: they see a glint in the distance that they would
Speaker 1: later recognize as a sniper rifle. They were also they
Speaker 1: were also approached by very aggressive military vehicles driving at them.
Speaker 1: Oh actually wait, no, they didn't manage to get out
Speaker 1: of the truck. I think they stopped the truck they
Speaker 1: saw the glint, and then the vehicles came after them,
Speaker 1: so they turned around and started to high tail it out.
Speaker 1: They got rammed, they got fish tailed, and then like
Speaker 1: what I mean by fishtailed is one of the military
Speaker 1: vehicles purposely swiped the back end of their truck such
Speaker 1: that they almost lost control.
Speaker 2: Of the vehicle a pit maneuver.
Speaker 1: So it was exactly exactly so, Matt. So they escaped
Speaker 1: with a lesson learned, and I'm sure they will never
Speaker 1: visit again. But if you are one of those people
Speaker 1: who genuinely thinks that you will storm Area fifty one
Speaker 1: with thousands and thousands of others, or if you are
Speaker 1: one of those people who thinks you will storm it
Speaker 1: and die in the process and you survived, let us
Speaker 1: know how it goes. Today's episode is about another nefarious
Speaker 1: activity of Uncle Sam. Internationally speaking, the Central Intelligence Agency
Speaker 1: is one of the United states most well known, and
Speaker 1: some would say infamous, branches of government.
Speaker 3: It was created on Paul's birthday on September eighteenth, although
Speaker 3: he is not this old, it was a nineteen forty
Speaker 3: seven when it was created, and the official duty of
Speaker 3: the CIA is to collect, analyze, evaluate, and disseminate foreign
Speaker 3: intelligence to assist the President and senior US government policymakers
Speaker 3: in making decisions relating to national security. That's pretty Legit
Speaker 3: seems pretty good, seems like something that we would want
Speaker 3: to do as a country, as a state government.
Speaker 1: Right on the offset, this doesn't sound too egregious, does it.
Speaker 1: After all, governments need to know what's happening in the
Speaker 1: world around us, especially when it may have an effect
Speaker 1: on domestic affairs, and these days, in the globally interconnected
Speaker 1: society in which we live or maybe survive as a
Speaker 1: better word, these sorts of foreign affairs nearly always have
Speaker 1: some sort of measurable effect on domestic affairs. However, if
Speaker 1: you have checked out any episode of this show ever, ever,
Speaker 1: ever in the past, then you know that the CIA
Speaker 1: has been involved in multitudes of less than above the
Speaker 1: board activities over the past six decades. We're talking assassinations,
Speaker 1: corporate corruption like overthrowing a country to help the bottom
Speaker 1: line of a US based corporation, covert activities not approved
Speaker 1: by Congress, and frankly bizarre expers. Today's episode is about
Speaker 1: that last one. So here are the facts. The CIA
Speaker 1: has done tons and tons and tons of stuff. Not
Speaker 1: all of these activities seem directly related to foreign intelligence
Speaker 1: and national security. They're kind of a to C thinking
Speaker 1: rather than a to be thinking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how do we get to that end goal?
Speaker 3: Sometimes that end goal is how do we make a
Speaker 3: person who is being interrogated more susceptible to telling us
Speaker 3: all the information we want? As in mk Ultra. That's
Speaker 3: that's the CIA mind control program that we made I
Speaker 3: believe two episodes about recently. Check those out. You can
Speaker 3: also find some videos on that that we've covered. How
Speaker 3: do we take out a large number of people, perhaps
Speaker 3: in a way that wouldn't indicate traditional weaponry traditional munitions.
Speaker 3: There you go, here's some biological warfare for you. Perhaps
Speaker 3: finding a way to kill someone without letting anyone else
Speaker 3: know that the CIA was involved or the United States
Speaker 3: or anyone else. In fact, unorthodox assassinations, poisoning wetsuits, exploding
Speaker 3: cigars like we talked about on the Fidel Castro cube episode,
Speaker 3: or how about just biological warfare experiments on the citizens
Speaker 3: of the United States, which is a true story.
Speaker 1: There are various accounts of the Central Intelligence Agency dispersing
Speaker 1: contaminants or substances meant to impersonate contaminants over large swaths
Speaker 1: population centers here in the US, more or less to
Speaker 1: see what would happen. The CIA has also experimented with hypnosis,
Speaker 1: and honestly, in comparison to some of their other research avenues,
Speaker 1: this is pretty tame. This is sort of a slow
Speaker 1: news day for the CIA, one would think, at least,
Speaker 1: But what exactly is hypnosis? What do we mean when
Speaker 1: we say hypnosis? Nowadays it's widely misunderstood, and this is
Speaker 1: due primarily to its depiction in works of fiction. One
Speaker 1: film that I love in particular is a real blockbuster
Speaker 1: when it came out. It's a Cabinet of Doctor Caligari,
Speaker 1: in which a somnambulist or a sleepwalker is turned into
Speaker 1: a monster, sort of a predecessor of what we call
Speaker 1: the Manchurian candidate today, and through the power of hypnosis,
Speaker 1: the epononymous villain of the film creates this killing machine.
Speaker 1: That's not how hypnosis works. That's at least that's not
Speaker 1: what the science shows us. Hypnosis is not a process
Speaker 1: wherein someone can be turned into a killing machine, forced
Speaker 1: to harm themselves, or really even forced to do something
Speaker 1: that they wouldn't have done normally, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: sort of like the reason why being drunk is not
Speaker 1: a good excuse use for someone's behavior. It's not something
Speaker 1: you would never have done. It's just something that you
Speaker 1: would do when you were less inhibited or less aware
Speaker 1: of the consequences of your actions. Hypnosis is also not
Speaker 1: a good tool for researching hidden trauma or suppressed memories, because,
Speaker 1: as long time listeners know, you can implant false memories
Speaker 1: in people very, very very easily. So what is hypnosis instead?
Speaker 1: What do we mean when we say that the CIA
Speaker 1: was experimenting with real hypnosis? What are we talking about.
Speaker 3: Well, it's really a trance state that you can put
Speaker 3: somebody in, and you know, it is characterized by extreme suggestibility,
Speaker 3: and that's where you bring in being able to plant
Speaker 3: memories into somebody by, you know, just leading someone down
Speaker 3: a path of a suggestion.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: It also has to do with relaxation heightened imagination, But
Speaker 3: it isn't exactly the way because when you hear that,
Speaker 3: maybe you think about sleep or that sleepy feeling that
Speaker 3: you'll get sometimes when you're a bit out of it,
Speaker 3: as you might put it, as I would put it,
Speaker 3: But it isn't really like sleep because the subject, to
Speaker 3: the person who is under hypnosis, is alert the entire
Speaker 3: time that they are undergoing hypnosis. It's a lot of
Speaker 3: times compared to daydreaming, or at least the feeling of
Speaker 3: losing yourself in a book or a movie, or maybe
Speaker 3: that kind of feeling you get when you come to
Speaker 3: alertness again after you've been driving in a car for
Speaker 3: a long time and you realize, oh wow, I've gone
Speaker 3: three or four miles and I can't recall any of
Speaker 3: the exits or any of the things that just occurred,
Speaker 3: and have to reiterate this. You are fully conscious when
Speaker 3: you are under hypnosis, but you do tune out all
Speaker 3: of the other stuff that's occurring around you, all the stimuli.
Speaker 3: You focus intently on whatever is at hand, the subject
Speaker 3: at hand. If someone's speaking to you and leading you
Speaker 3: through hypnosis. That is the only thing that's occurring. Those words,
Speaker 3: the sound basically coming towards you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, think about flow state. Flow state is when, for
Speaker 1: the athletes in the audience, you feel that you are
Speaker 1: in the zone. Maybe you're so focused the time seems
Speaker 1: to slow a bit, maybe you don't hear things the
Speaker 1: way that you would normally hear them if you are
Speaker 1: outside of the flow state. In the everyday trance of
Speaker 1: say a Walter Midiesque flight of fancy, or let's say
Speaker 1: watching a film that you're very into, an imaginary world
Speaker 1: seems somewhat more real. We suspend our disbelief, and this
Speaker 1: primarily translates to a work of fiction or unreality fully
Speaker 1: engaging our emotions. That's why people have a cathartic experience
Speaker 1: when they see tragedies or when they watch love stories.
Speaker 1: These imaginary events can cause you to experience genuine fear, sadness,
Speaker 1: or happiness. This is also, by the way, the reason
Speaker 1: that jump scares and horror films work. You know that
Speaker 1: you're in a theater with maybe eighty or more people,
Speaker 1: or you know that you're the only person in your house,
Speaker 1: but Ooh, that creepy girl from the ring? Am I right?
Speaker 1: Some researchers categorize all of these trances as forms of
Speaker 1: self hypnosis. There's a hypnotism expert back in the twentieth
Speaker 1: century named Milton Ericsson. And Ericson believe that most people
Speaker 1: hypnotize themselves on a daily basis. And for those of
Speaker 1: us listening who say, oh, well, I am unhypnotizable, I've
Speaker 1: never been in a trance state. If you've ever been
Speaker 1: on a road trip for more than about three hours,
Speaker 1: I can guarantee that you have entered something like this.
Speaker 1: It is the way the human mechanism works. Most psychiatrists
Speaker 1: don't focus on this accidental sneak up on utrance state.
Speaker 1: They focus on intentional relaxation, focusing exercises. Do you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? Like breathe deep counter breaths, Imagine that
Speaker 1: there is a waterfall, or you're slowly floating away from
Speaker 1: your body as we count down from ten to one,
Speaker 1: things like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's almost the focused meditation kind of things, or
Speaker 3: guided meditation or ASMR kinds of things.
Speaker 1: This deep hypnosis is often compared to that sort of
Speaker 1: reverie we encounter between wakefulness and sleep, which is for
Speaker 1: a lot of people the most amazing part of their day.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I would say that all of this we're
Speaker 3: discussing right here reminds me of the feeling you get
Speaker 3: when you're deeply immersed in a video game. And I
Speaker 3: think it's probably almost more powerful in that respect, because
Speaker 3: even though your body is reacting, your fingers are touching
Speaker 3: some control mechanism, your entire consciousness is existing in whatever
Speaker 3: that imaginary world is on your screen. However you're experiencing
Speaker 3: the video game, especially in a VR setting or something
Speaker 3: to where all of the external stimuli, especially if you're
Speaker 3: wearing headphones, just goes away. That's just what I'm thinking
Speaker 3: about when I'm hearing.
Speaker 2: All of this agreed.
Speaker 1: In conventional hypnosis, we approach the suggestion of our hypnotists
Speaker 1: or yourself if you're the hypnotist, as if they were reality.
Speaker 1: But on some level we are always aware that this
Speaker 1: is not the concrete, you know, baseline reality. It's it's
Speaker 1: like we're playing pretend, similar to when you would play
Speaker 1: games as children, but on a more intense level. And
Speaker 1: in this particular mental state, people do feel uninhibited, it
Speaker 1: do feel relaxed, Presumably this is because you get a
Speaker 1: bit further away cognitively from the worries and doubts that
Speaker 1: usually keep our actions in check. This all leads to
Speaker 1: subjects of hypnotism also being highly suggestible, which is how
Speaker 1: you can hypnotize someone and convince them that they had
Speaker 1: an experience they just now remembered right, and then boom,
Speaker 1: you can write a book. So this has been the
Speaker 1: path for a lot of unethical therapists, especially in the
Speaker 1: nineties and eighties. By the way, this is how stage
Speaker 1: magicians can get people to do things that are endearing
Speaker 1: but not dangerous. However, the CIA did not research hypnotism
Speaker 1: to make people squawk like chickens or learn to chill
Speaker 1: axe and be laid back af Instead, they did this
Speaker 1: to teach their agents psychic powers.
Speaker 2: And we'll get into that right afterword from our sponsor.
Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. Yes, that is correct. The
Speaker 1: CIA researched psychic powers or extrasensory perception AKAESP.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a lot like something we've discussed on the
Speaker 3: show before.
Speaker 2: Remote viewing.
Speaker 3: Remember this remote viewing in Project Stargate, that whole military
Speaker 3: program from seventy eight. Probably seen the movie the menu
Speaker 3: steric goats. Loosely based on that, or somewhat based on that,
Speaker 3: the CIA had this whole separate program specifically to research
Speaker 3: potential of remote viewing and you know, in this like
Speaker 3: kind of weird sci fi way, to unlock those powers
Speaker 3: of the human mind, the ones that have been hidden
Speaker 3: away or that we forgot about, or we just don't
Speaker 3: realize when we're on this corporeal plane that we have.
Speaker 1: And they did not go into this endeavor alone. They
Speaker 1: partnered out, They contracted out. They went to a place
Speaker 1: called the Monroe Institute. From the late nineteen seventies into
Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties, the CIA paid for intelligence officers to
Speaker 1: go on week long excursions to an out of the
Speaker 1: way place called the Monroe Institute. The Monroe Institute specialized
Speaker 1: in out of body experiences and astral projection. And Matt,
Speaker 1: you had done a little bit of digging on the
Speaker 1: namesake of the Monroe Institute.
Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, yeah, I did.
Speaker 3: There's this guy named Robert A.
Speaker 2: Monroe.
Speaker 3: He is a fascinating subject. He was an executive for
Speaker 3: broadcast radio in several different respects, several different I guess
Speaker 3: you can call it stations. He ended up making his
Speaker 3: own company, and as part of his company that he created,
Speaker 3: he was doing a lot of research into audio and
Speaker 3: one thing that just kind of happened to occur. As
Speaker 3: he's doing all this research on how audio effects listeners,
Speaker 3: other new things we can do with audio, how can
Speaker 3: we influence people who are listening, he stumbled upon this
Speaker 3: idea that perhaps through tones we can influence the way
Speaker 3: people experience either other audio or even get someone to
Speaker 3: encounter what he would later coin in one of his
Speaker 3: books and out of body experience.
Speaker 1: Right right in his nineteen seventy one book Journeys Out
Speaker 1: of the Body? Is that correct?
Speaker 2: Yes? Correct?
Speaker 3: And in far Journeys is another one of his books,
Speaker 3: Ultimate Journey, lots of journeys, Journey out of the Body,
Speaker 3: that's that's the big one. It's really I mean, he's
Speaker 3: a fascinating character. And if you go to the Monroe
Speaker 3: Institute's website, which is m Nroeinstitute dot org, you can
Speaker 3: actually find YouTube videos of this man, Bob Monroe as
Speaker 3: he's called a lot of times where he's giving talks.
Speaker 3: And I started going down this rabbit hole today with
Speaker 3: this guy. He has some kind of I guess what
Speaker 3: would be considered out of their ideas about what human
Speaker 3: consciousness is. I guess what he's discovered through his explorations
Speaker 3: of his own technology and his own techniques. I don't
Speaker 3: I actually don't want to describe them in full detail here.
Speaker 3: I would just encourage you to listen to some of these,
Speaker 3: because if I just told you in a bulleted point
Speaker 3: what he believes experience is as consciousness, you would just
Speaker 3: probably sigh, roll your eyes and then leave. But I
Speaker 3: think after hearing what we're going to tell you today,
Speaker 3: then maybe watching these your mind might be a little
Speaker 3: more open or susceptible to suggestion.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and just I agree with that, Matt. Just to
Speaker 1: give everyone a taste of where we're where we're coming
Speaker 1: from with this, let's describe Bob's findings not in his
Speaker 1: own words, but in an excellent short summary by journalist
Speaker 1: Caroline Haskins writing for Motherboard on Vice. She says, human
Speaker 1: consciousness is nothing but an intersection of energy planes that
Speaker 1: forms a hologram able to travel through space time all
Speaker 1: one word, across the universe and into the past, present,
Speaker 1: and future. That's the elevator pitch for the nature of
Speaker 1: consciousness is seen by the Monroe Institute. There's a lot
Speaker 1: more to it, so check it out, I guess before
Speaker 1: you make your final call. This was very out there
Speaker 1: for some people, but it was also very promising for others,
Speaker 1: including people like Army Commander Wayne M. McDonell, who, in
Speaker 1: June of nineteen eighty three was asked to give his
Speaker 1: commander an assessment of the psychic services provided by the
Speaker 1: Monroe Institute. This was doing something called Project Center Lane.
Speaker 1: The Monroe Institute is known for not just Bob's opinions
Speaker 1: on the nature of human consciousness and its interactions with
Speaker 1: what we call reality, but for the patented technology that
Speaker 1: he and his associates had created. They call it hemi
Speaker 1: sync short for hemisphere synchronization, and it uses audio to
Speaker 1: quote synchronize the brain waves of the left and right
Speaker 1: sides of the brain. According to the website, this makes
Speaker 1: the brain more receptive to hypnosis and all of the
Speaker 1: other potential things they believe the human mind can do
Speaker 1: while in that state.
Speaker 3: And you may have heard of this before a lot
Speaker 3: of times, it's referred to as binormal beats. On the Internet,
Speaker 3: you can find YouTube videos of purported binoral beats, and
Speaker 3: generally it has to do with two different, similar but
Speaker 3: not the same, tones that are being played in stereo
Speaker 3: into both of your ears.
Speaker 1: Right, and as we established before, audio has tremendous power,
Speaker 1: some effects of which are more apparent than others. So
Speaker 1: Wayne was asked to provide this assessment after he had
Speaker 1: completed the week long psychic program at the institute a
Speaker 1: month prior. And this institute, just for reference, is located
Speaker 1: in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia in a small
Speaker 1: town called Faber Is about thirty miles east of Charlottesville.
Speaker 1: That probably gives our US audience a rough sense. For
Speaker 1: everyone outside of the US, I think they're just this
Speaker 1: series of names. But if you pop on Google Maps
Speaker 1: you can see. The point we're making is this is
Speaker 1: relatively isolated. So here's the question. What did McDonald say. Well,
Speaker 1: his report formed the basis of a twenty nine page
Speaker 1: Army document that featured detailed explanations of hypnosis, holograms, and
Speaker 1: out of body experiences. The documents placed these phenomena in
Speaker 1: the context of these larger ideas of consciousness, energy, space, time,
Speaker 1: them subatomic particles. The astral projection. Right, of course, astral
Speaker 1: projection is the idea that one can uncouple the mind
Speaker 1: and the body and send the mind free throughout all
Speaker 1: sorts of places and doesn't have to travel through linear time.
Speaker 1: I do want to note here that we primarily focus
Speaker 1: on this being a CIA activity, but a lot of
Speaker 1: this was the CIA and the Army functioning sort of
Speaker 1: hand in glove. They were sharing a lot of research
Speaker 1: on this. So McDonald's cites a metaphor penned by a
Speaker 1: Monroe Institute employee named Melissa Jagger or Jaeger, in order
Speaker 1: to illustrate the nature of hypnosis. The metaphor says that
Speaker 1: the normal state of consciousness is kind of like a lamp,
Speaker 1: and that means it emits light in a chaotic, incoherent way,
Speaker 1: but in which.
Speaker 3: We kind of in a way disagree with that because
Speaker 3: it's just more of like an omnipresent singles source of
Speaker 3: light that goes in all directions.
Speaker 2: But but we agree.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But a hypnotized state of consciousness, by contrast, would
Speaker 1: be like a laser beam and thoughts and energy are
Speaker 1: as you had said earlier, Matt describing hypnosis, they're like
Speaker 1: a disciplined stream of light or like a laser. So
Speaker 1: when they're doing project Center Lane when when they're working
Speaker 1: on this, the big question here is how they found candidates, right,
Speaker 1: How how did they How did they get officers to
Speaker 1: participate in Project Center Lane.
Speaker 3: Well, the first thing you got to do when you're
Speaker 3: going to bring someone on into some kind of hypnosis
Speaker 3: study and or learning and training technique is to hypnotize them.
Speaker 3: That's of course first and foremost, and then after they're
Speaker 3: under hypnosis, they would practice like reaching this place this
Speaker 3: of consciousness considered the astral plane. And the whole goal
Speaker 3: is to learn foreign languages, like basically be able to
Speaker 3: teach yourself things at a faster pace, to enter the matrix,
Speaker 3: if you will, in a way, and to also do
Speaker 3: this thing that the documents referred to as habit control training,
Speaker 3: which you can assume has to do with, you know,
Speaker 3: training each of these people who are going to take
Speaker 3: part in this to do certain things, to not do
Speaker 3: certain things, although the details of that are lost to us.
Speaker 1: According to one of the declassified files, two hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty one Army Intelligence candidates were selected for the first
Speaker 1: year of experimentation, and of those candidates, one hundred and
Speaker 1: seventeen were initially interviewed under the impression that they were
Speaker 1: just taking a survey, right. McDonald was trying to find
Speaker 1: people who were in the middle of the Bell curve
Speaker 1: regarding credulism versus skepticism. So people who objected military use
Speaker 1: of what they called psycho energetics categorically were not considered
Speaker 1: to be good candidates. And then on the other side
Speaker 1: of the spectrum, people who seemed incredibly gassed and excited
Speaker 1: about psycho energetics, or people who, by whatever measure they
Speaker 1: had this study conducted, considered to be occult fanatics or
Speaker 1: mystical zealots, were also out of their running. But for
Speaker 1: the people who were accepted, they were shipped off on
Speaker 1: a real weird field trip. They went to the Monroe
Speaker 1: Institute and then they would listen to this Heemi sync audio.
Speaker 1: After this, one of the institute's research associates would do
Speaker 1: the guided meditation that you mentioned earlier, Matt. They would
Speaker 1: guide intelligence officers into the astral plane, the psychic space,
Speaker 1: in which the Institute maintained that officers could heighten their
Speaker 1: sensory experiences, accelerate their healing, travel into the past or
Speaker 1: the future, or even solve real world delay as without
Speaker 1: the restraints of a physical body whoa I know, right.
Speaker 1: Another technique known as remote viewing was also employed, and
Speaker 1: this is something that should be familiar if you caught
Speaker 1: our earlier interview with the scientist Russell targ or some
Speaker 1: of our work on Project Stargate. According to a declassified
Speaker 1: document from eighty two, which doesn't specifically explicitly mention the
Speaker 1: Army or the Monroe Institute.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because they didn't go until the next year, right right.
Speaker 1: This does, however, follow the precise description of remote viewing
Speaker 1: as explained by the as explained by the nineteen eighty
Speaker 1: three doc that does mention Monroe by name. So what
Speaker 1: were they doing exactly? What was their first big milestone
Speaker 1: test goal. The answer will surprise you, we promise, and
Speaker 1: we'll tell you after a word from our sponsor.
Speaker 3: Well, according to the documents that we found online, the
Speaker 3: goal of all of this remote viewing, all of the
Speaker 3: energy that all of these people put in, was to
Speaker 3: remotely view Mars in the year one million BC, basically
Speaker 3: to find out if there was a human civilization or
Speaker 3: another extraterrestrial civilization of intelligent beings that lived on Mars
Speaker 3: back then.
Speaker 1: According to the transcript and interviewer read coordinates and verbal
Speaker 1: cues to a subject, and the subject claimed to see
Speaker 1: dust storms, alien structures, and even an ancient alien race.
Speaker 1: You can, by the way, you can see all of
Speaker 1: the stuff we're describing at CIA dot gov just searching
Speaker 1: through their reading room and you'll you will see this
Speaker 1: written out explicitly. We're not stiling on this nor paraphrasing.
Speaker 2: You heard that it's on the CIA's website.
Speaker 1: It's true. So some people did say that they saw something.
Speaker 1: You could either you know, you can read the transcript
Speaker 1: and decide for yourself whether they're just hyper suggestible and
Speaker 1: maybe they're just kind of improvising and riffing on cues
Speaker 1: that the research associated or already gave them. But here's
Speaker 1: here's one description from a subject who certainly saw something.
Speaker 1: He says, very tall, again, very large people, but they're
Speaker 1: they're thin. They look thin because of their height, and
Speaker 1: they dress like, oh hell, it's like it's like a
Speaker 1: real light silk, but it's not you know, flowing type
Speaker 1: of clothing. It's it's cut to fit their they're ancient people.
Speaker 1: They're they're dying, it's past their time or age. They're
Speaker 1: very philosophic about it. They're looking for a way to
Speaker 1: survive and they just can't.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: This is just one example, to be fair, That is
Speaker 1: a direct quote, but there are other examples out there.
Speaker 3: Was he was he from Georgia or Alabama?
Speaker 2: Where was he from?
Speaker 1: It maybe lost to history. I don't know if it's
Speaker 1: the source, but it sounded like he went through being
Speaker 1: from maybe four or five very different places in the
Speaker 1: course of that description.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess he was a military brat, moved around
Speaker 1: a lot. But this is all real. This all definitely happened,
Speaker 1: And the big question is what happened next after they
Speaker 1: sent these people for these things? What did they find?
Speaker 1: What did the Army and the CIA find with HEMI
Speaker 1: sink technology.
Speaker 3: Well, there's this guy who was described as a personal
Speaker 3: management analyst named Ray Ray Waldkoter. He wrote this article
Speaker 3: for the nineteen ninety one HEMI Sink Journal. So they've
Speaker 3: got an entire journal here. And again, the Monroe Institute
Speaker 3: was a research arm created through his research and development
Speaker 3: efforts through his broadcast company. Okay, so he's reviewing the
Speaker 3: army's uses of HEMI sync technology. So he had the
Speaker 3: Army looking at their technology. Now they're looking back on
Speaker 3: how the Army is going to be using it. And
Speaker 3: in this he states that the Army variously used HEMICNK
Speaker 3: technology for stress reduction, psychological counseling, and enhanced learning abilities
Speaker 3: for various levels of personnel, as well as training for
Speaker 3: people seeking officer level positions. So really, they truly are
Speaker 3: at least in several ways here attempting to use it
Speaker 3: like the matrix, to teach people skills as fast as
Speaker 3: they can and as efficiently as possible.
Speaker 1: And Waltcotter wrote also that several intensive Army military training
Speaker 1: programs have been conducted using the technology. This is where
Speaker 1: it gets this. This is pretty fascinating because he said
Speaker 1: these programs demonstrated positive results, which means that in one
Speaker 1: or more than one of the fields of research that
Speaker 1: they were conducting this technology, Hemisinc. Was found to be successful.
Speaker 1: We don't know which fields, we don't know how successful.
Speaker 1: We just know that they felt there was something to it,
Speaker 1: and as a result, research continued until nineteen ninety five,
Speaker 1: when the Defense Appropriations Act directs the program to be
Speaker 1: transferred to way for it the CIA, and the CIA
Speaker 1: keeps working with this. We're not sure exactly what they
Speaker 1: did with it, because we don't know what did or
Speaker 1: did not make it into a written report. But the
Speaker 1: CIA itself later said remote viewing had not been proven
Speaker 1: to work by a psychic mechanism specifically, and they assured
Speaker 1: us or assured themselves internally, that it had not been
Speaker 1: used operationally. Furthermore, the CIA concluded that there was nothing
Speaker 1: striking or surprising about its findings after doing research of
Speaker 1: their own. Yeah, so now we're at another than a
Speaker 1: fork in the road.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Over twenty million dollars was sunk into this project, of
Speaker 1: which we're aware, and to be fair, that is not
Speaker 1: a huge figure in comparison to many other strange Army
Speaker 1: and CIA projects. But let's remember that the US public
Speaker 1: footed the bill here, and this was at a time
Speaker 1: when people were, as they are now still in need
Speaker 1: of education, medical care, food, and so on. So is
Speaker 1: it money well spent? Was it foolish? Is there more
Speaker 1: to the story? I don't know, But maybe you're saying, hey, guys,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm a person who learns through experience. I want
Speaker 1: to fight follow in the footsteps of the CIA and
Speaker 1: Army intelligence and figure this out for myself while we
Speaker 1: have good news for you friends and neighbors. The Monroe Institute,
Speaker 1: as we record, is still operating. It's still around, it
Speaker 1: is still selling it's Hemisinc. Program Today. So you can
Speaker 1: take a week off yourself and go find out what
Speaker 1: all the hubbub is about.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's everything from many one day programs, or
Speaker 3: you can jump on one of their five to six
Speaker 3: day consciousness programs and you guys, the Monroe Institutes and
Speaker 3: kind of in a silly way, but also in I'm
Speaker 3: genuinely interested in this about You could take a class
Speaker 3: about energy medicine. You can take a class that's described
Speaker 3: as event horizon conscious presence. We could all probably use
Speaker 3: a little bit of that nowadays. Or something called animal
Speaker 3: and interspecies communication. Now that one I'm into. If I
Speaker 3: could talk to my dog, like really know what's going on,
Speaker 3: that would be huge.
Speaker 2: That's your pick, that's my pick.
Speaker 3: Awesome or event horizon whatever that is.
Speaker 1: So let us know your experience with this, if you
Speaker 1: decide to engage in this sort of activity, or if
Speaker 1: you take a field trip to the Monroe Institute, let
Speaker 1: us know if you've been to this or something like this,
Speaker 1: in the past, we would love to hear your stories.
Speaker 1: Most importantly, like all classified projects, this was technically a conspiracy,
Speaker 1: not a theory. They really spent the money in secret
Speaker 1: the Army and then later of the CIA. Yet for
Speaker 1: fringe researchers, the admitted conspiracy is simply a distraction, sort
Speaker 1: of a red herring to throw you off the trail.
Speaker 1: And they'll argue that this sort of experimentation continues today.
Speaker 1: So if we took a lot little bit of time
Speaker 1: to speculate, to engage in some what iffery, let's see
Speaker 1: what would be the best way to conduct this sort
Speaker 1: of experimentation without the usual legal limitations imposed by domestic
Speaker 1: and international law. First, if we throw morals to the wayside,
Speaker 1: you would probably want to set up an institution or
Speaker 1: a laboratory of some sort in a place that the
Speaker 1: US controlled but was not legally obligated towards, so like Diego,
Speaker 1: Garcia maybe, or one of the islands where so many
Speaker 1: people have been black bagged in the War on Terror.
Speaker 1: And then you would want, of course keep it out
Speaker 1: of the news. You would also you would also want
Speaker 1: to make sure that you could dope the subjects up
Speaker 1: as much as you wanted to see how far into
Speaker 1: that state you could get them before there were deletorious
Speaker 1: cognitive or physical effects, and then probably just to get
Speaker 1: a baseline, you would keep going until if you died.
Speaker 1: That's the kind of stuff that you will see fringe
Speaker 1: researchers arguing is happening now as we record today. There
Speaker 1: isn't proof of that, but that is some disturbing speculation
Speaker 1: and just saying that that could happen, which absolutely good.
Speaker 1: For all we know it could be happening now. Just
Speaker 1: saying that could happen is not the same thing as
Speaker 1: saying any of that would result in actual remote viewing,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, or reproducible astral travel and
Speaker 1: so on. I'm just saying it is completely possible for
Speaker 1: the US and other powerful governments do kidnap people, take
Speaker 1: them into a place where ethical constraints do not apply,
Speaker 1: and experiment on them.
Speaker 3: There you go, Or you could just, I don't know,
Speaker 3: pump some of that binaural stuff the HEMI sink stuff
Speaker 3: into the radio waves and see how it plays on
Speaker 3: the public overall. Does it have any effects on humans
Speaker 3: while they're driving or while they're listening to their podcasts?
Speaker 1: That's very good.
Speaker 3: Did you guys notice the the hemi sink technology happening
Speaker 3: in your ears while you're listening to this?
Speaker 2: You didn't because we weren't using it.
Speaker 3: But.
Speaker 2: Wouldn't that be cool if we did?
Speaker 1: And that's our classic episode for this evening. We can't
Speaker 1: wait to hear your thoughts. It's right let us know
Speaker 1: what you think.
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