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Speaker 1: Tonight's classic episode is one of our favorite continuing obsessions. Okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: have you guys ever done astral travel? Can you do it?

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Speaker 2: I thought you were gonna say acid.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, there's a Venn diagram there. There

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Speaker 1: might be astral projection, like of my consciousness out into

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Speaker 1: the cosmos to places that I don't belong or perhaps

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Speaker 1: have not experienced corporeally.

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Speaker 3: Have you guys not seen me hang out in y'all's bedrooms?

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Speaker 1: Oh no, I was wondering what that ghostly outline was. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's why. That's why you can see be suddenly performing

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Speaker 1: acappella carriok maat, that's that parts for you?

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, so we are.

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Speaker 1: We are talking about not just the fun thought experiment

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Speaker 1: conversations regarding what is called remote viewing, But in this

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Speaker 1: episode we explore the very true story of how Uncle

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Speaker 1: Sam paid for intelligence officers as part of their job,

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Speaker 1: to attempt remote viewing at a place called the Monroe Institute.

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Speaker 2: Let's get right into it.

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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff. They don't want you to know a

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Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 3: My name is Matt Noel is on an adventure.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben, and you're joined as always with

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Speaker 1: our super producer Paul, Mission control decand most importantly, you

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Speaker 1: are you. You are here and that makes this stuff

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Speaker 1: They don't want you to know. Uh mission control quick

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Speaker 1: check in thumbs up, thumbs down, Oh wow, a thumbs

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Speaker 1: up with a with an on and onward and upward motion.

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Speaker 1: So someone's excited about the weekend. It is Friday as

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Speaker 1: we record this. How about you, Matt, any big plans? Oh?

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Speaker 3: I'm so excited to mow my lawn and clean the

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Speaker 3: house and do things that I don't always get to do.

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Speaker 1: Hey, you're not going to storm Area fifty one.

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Speaker 2: I thought about it and find them aliens. No, and

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Speaker 2: probably not.

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Speaker 3: Just a shout out here. There's a there's a I

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Speaker 3: guess a petition going around right now as we are

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Speaker 3: recording this. That was just popping up in the news, CNN,

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Speaker 3: Times Magazine. Everybody's talking about it. Just a heads up,

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Speaker 3: if you're gonna storm a secret government facility, don't give

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Speaker 3: them a giant heads up that they're gonna be thousands

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Speaker 3: of you coming.

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Speaker 2: Well, maybe it is.

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Speaker 3: Smart to give them a heads up so you don't

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Speaker 3: get shot. But at the same time, if there are

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Speaker 3: extraterrestrial bodies kept somewhere on Groom Lake, they're not going

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Speaker 3: to be there when you when you get there.

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Speaker 1: That's a very good point. Let me perhaps comment on

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Speaker 1: this with an anecdote from a friend of mine who

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Speaker 1: attempted to visit Area fifty one with his brother once

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Speaker 1: on a road trip, and interest of anonymity, I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to give their names. This is, however, a true story.

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Speaker 1: So they wanted to on a great trip out west

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Speaker 1: see how close they could get to Area fifty one.

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Speaker 1: The place is surrounded by signs that do you know,

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Speaker 1: do notify you of when something is considered trespassing, and

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Speaker 1: also notify you that it is legal for Uncle Sam

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Speaker 1: to use lethal force on anyone Past that point. There

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Speaker 1: will be no legal repercussions, there will be no class

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Speaker 1: action lawsuit, there will be no help for you if

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Speaker 1: you cross that line and get popped. So this guy's

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Speaker 1: experience went the following way. They had taken believe his

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Speaker 1: brother's truck and they had driven up as close as

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Speaker 1: they could get and they kind of got out in

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Speaker 1: front of one of those signs. But as they're getting out,

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Speaker 1: they see a glint in the distance that they would

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Speaker 1: later recognize as a sniper rifle. They were also they

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Speaker 1: were also approached by very aggressive military vehicles driving at them.

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Speaker 1: Oh actually wait, no, they didn't manage to get out

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Speaker 1: of the truck. I think they stopped the truck they

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Speaker 1: saw the glint, and then the vehicles came after them,

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Speaker 1: so they turned around and started to high tail it out.

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Speaker 1: They got rammed, they got fish tailed, and then like

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Speaker 1: what I mean by fishtailed is one of the military

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Speaker 1: vehicles purposely swiped the back end of their truck such

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Speaker 1: that they almost lost control.

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Speaker 2: Of the vehicle a pit maneuver.

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Speaker 1: So it was exactly exactly so, Matt. So they escaped

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Speaker 1: with a lesson learned, and I'm sure they will never

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Speaker 1: visit again. But if you are one of those people

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Speaker 1: who genuinely thinks that you will storm Area fifty one

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Speaker 1: with thousands and thousands of others, or if you are

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Speaker 1: one of those people who thinks you will storm it

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Speaker 1: and die in the process and you survived, let us

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Speaker 1: know how it goes. Today's episode is about another nefarious

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Speaker 1: activity of Uncle Sam. Internationally speaking, the Central Intelligence Agency

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Speaker 1: is one of the United states most well known, and

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Speaker 1: some would say infamous, branches of government.

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Speaker 3: It was created on Paul's birthday on September eighteenth, although

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Speaker 3: he is not this old, it was a nineteen forty

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Speaker 3: seven when it was created, and the official duty of

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Speaker 3: the CIA is to collect, analyze, evaluate, and disseminate foreign

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Speaker 3: intelligence to assist the President and senior US government policymakers

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Speaker 3: in making decisions relating to national security. That's pretty Legit

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Speaker 3: seems pretty good, seems like something that we would want

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Speaker 3: to do as a country, as a state government.

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Speaker 1: Right on the offset, this doesn't sound too egregious, does it.

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Speaker 1: After all, governments need to know what's happening in the

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Speaker 1: world around us, especially when it may have an effect

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Speaker 1: on domestic affairs, and these days, in the globally interconnected

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Speaker 1: society in which we live or maybe survive as a

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Speaker 1: better word, these sorts of foreign affairs nearly always have

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Speaker 1: some sort of measurable effect on domestic affairs. However, if

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Speaker 1: you have checked out any episode of this show ever, ever,

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Speaker 1: ever in the past, then you know that the CIA

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Speaker 1: has been involved in multitudes of less than above the

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Speaker 1: board activities over the past six decades. We're talking assassinations,

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Speaker 1: corporate corruption like overthrowing a country to help the bottom

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Speaker 1: line of a US based corporation, covert activities not approved

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Speaker 1: by Congress, and frankly bizarre expers. Today's episode is about

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Speaker 1: that last one. So here are the facts. The CIA

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Speaker 1: has done tons and tons and tons of stuff. Not

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Speaker 1: all of these activities seem directly related to foreign intelligence

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Speaker 1: and national security. They're kind of a to C thinking

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Speaker 1: rather than a to be thinking.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, how do we get to that end goal?

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Speaker 3: Sometimes that end goal is how do we make a

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Speaker 3: person who is being interrogated more susceptible to telling us

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Speaker 3: all the information we want? As in mk Ultra. That's

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Speaker 3: that's the CIA mind control program that we made I

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Speaker 3: believe two episodes about recently. Check those out. You can

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Speaker 3: also find some videos on that that we've covered. How

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Speaker 3: do we take out a large number of people, perhaps

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Speaker 3: in a way that wouldn't indicate traditional weaponry traditional munitions.

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Speaker 3: There you go, here's some biological warfare for you. Perhaps

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Speaker 3: finding a way to kill someone without letting anyone else

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Speaker 3: know that the CIA was involved or the United States

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Speaker 3: or anyone else. In fact, unorthodox assassinations, poisoning wetsuits, exploding

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Speaker 3: cigars like we talked about on the Fidel Castro cube episode,

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Speaker 3: or how about just biological warfare experiments on the citizens

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Speaker 3: of the United States, which is a true story.

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Speaker 1: There are various accounts of the Central Intelligence Agency dispersing

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Speaker 1: contaminants or substances meant to impersonate contaminants over large swaths

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Speaker 1: population centers here in the US, more or less to

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Speaker 1: see what would happen. The CIA has also experimented with hypnosis,

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Speaker 1: and honestly, in comparison to some of their other research avenues,

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Speaker 1: this is pretty tame. This is sort of a slow

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Speaker 1: news day for the CIA, one would think, at least,

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Speaker 1: But what exactly is hypnosis? What do we mean when

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Speaker 1: we say hypnosis? Nowadays it's widely misunderstood, and this is

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Speaker 1: due primarily to its depiction in works of fiction. One

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Speaker 1: film that I love in particular is a real blockbuster

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Speaker 1: when it came out. It's a Cabinet of Doctor Caligari,

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Speaker 1: in which a somnambulist or a sleepwalker is turned into

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Speaker 1: a monster, sort of a predecessor of what we call

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Speaker 1: the Manchurian candidate today, and through the power of hypnosis,

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Speaker 1: the epononymous villain of the film creates this killing machine.

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Speaker 1: That's not how hypnosis works. That's at least that's not

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Speaker 1: what the science shows us. Hypnosis is not a process

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Speaker 1: wherein someone can be turned into a killing machine, forced

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Speaker 1: to harm themselves, or really even forced to do something

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Speaker 1: that they wouldn't have done normally, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: sort of like the reason why being drunk is not

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Speaker 1: a good excuse use for someone's behavior. It's not something

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Speaker 1: you would never have done. It's just something that you

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Speaker 1: would do when you were less inhibited or less aware

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Speaker 1: of the consequences of your actions. Hypnosis is also not

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Speaker 1: a good tool for researching hidden trauma or suppressed memories, because,

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Speaker 1: as long time listeners know, you can implant false memories

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Speaker 1: in people very, very very easily. So what is hypnosis instead?

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Speaker 1: What do we mean when we say that the CIA

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Speaker 1: was experimenting with real hypnosis? What are we talking about.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's really a trance state that you can put

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Speaker 3: somebody in, and you know, it is characterized by extreme suggestibility,

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Speaker 3: and that's where you bring in being able to plant

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Speaker 3: memories into somebody by, you know, just leading someone down

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Speaker 3: a path of a suggestion.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: It also has to do with relaxation heightened imagination, But

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Speaker 3: it isn't exactly the way because when you hear that,

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Speaker 3: maybe you think about sleep or that sleepy feeling that

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Speaker 3: you'll get sometimes when you're a bit out of it,

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Speaker 3: as you might put it, as I would put it,

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Speaker 3: But it isn't really like sleep because the subject, to

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Speaker 3: the person who is under hypnosis, is alert the entire

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Speaker 3: time that they are undergoing hypnosis. It's a lot of

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Speaker 3: times compared to daydreaming, or at least the feeling of

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Speaker 3: losing yourself in a book or a movie, or maybe

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Speaker 3: that kind of feeling you get when you come to

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Speaker 3: alertness again after you've been driving in a car for

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Speaker 3: a long time and you realize, oh wow, I've gone

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Speaker 3: three or four miles and I can't recall any of

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Speaker 3: the exits or any of the things that just occurred,

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Speaker 3: and have to reiterate this. You are fully conscious when

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Speaker 3: you are under hypnosis, but you do tune out all

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Speaker 3: of the other stuff that's occurring around you, all the stimuli.

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Speaker 3: You focus intently on whatever is at hand, the subject

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Speaker 3: at hand. If someone's speaking to you and leading you

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Speaker 3: through hypnosis. That is the only thing that's occurring. Those words,

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Speaker 3: the sound basically coming towards you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, think about flow state. Flow state is when, for

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Speaker 1: the athletes in the audience, you feel that you are

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Speaker 1: in the zone. Maybe you're so focused the time seems

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Speaker 1: to slow a bit, maybe you don't hear things the

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Speaker 1: way that you would normally hear them if you are

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Speaker 1: outside of the flow state. In the everyday trance of

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Speaker 1: say a Walter Midiesque flight of fancy, or let's say

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Speaker 1: watching a film that you're very into, an imaginary world

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Speaker 1: seems somewhat more real. We suspend our disbelief, and this

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Speaker 1: primarily translates to a work of fiction or unreality fully

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Speaker 1: engaging our emotions. That's why people have a cathartic experience

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Speaker 1: when they see tragedies or when they watch love stories.

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Speaker 1: These imaginary events can cause you to experience genuine fear, sadness,

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Speaker 1: or happiness. This is also, by the way, the reason

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Speaker 1: that jump scares and horror films work. You know that

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Speaker 1: you're in a theater with maybe eighty or more people,

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Speaker 1: or you know that you're the only person in your house,

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Speaker 1: but Ooh, that creepy girl from the ring? Am I right?

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Speaker 1: Some researchers categorize all of these trances as forms of

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Speaker 1: self hypnosis. There's a hypnotism expert back in the twentieth

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Speaker 1: century named Milton Ericsson. And Ericson believe that most people

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Speaker 1: hypnotize themselves on a daily basis. And for those of

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Speaker 1: us listening who say, oh, well, I am unhypnotizable, I've

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Speaker 1: never been in a trance state. If you've ever been

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Speaker 1: on a road trip for more than about three hours,

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Speaker 1: I can guarantee that you have entered something like this.

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Speaker 1: It is the way the human mechanism works. Most psychiatrists

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Speaker 1: don't focus on this accidental sneak up on utrance state.

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Speaker 1: They focus on intentional relaxation, focusing exercises. Do you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean? Like breathe deep counter breaths, Imagine that

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Speaker 1: there is a waterfall, or you're slowly floating away from

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Speaker 1: your body as we count down from ten to one,

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Speaker 1: things like that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's almost the focused meditation kind of things, or

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Speaker 3: guided meditation or ASMR kinds of things.

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Speaker 1: This deep hypnosis is often compared to that sort of

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Speaker 1: reverie we encounter between wakefulness and sleep, which is for

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Speaker 1: a lot of people the most amazing part of their day.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I would say that all of this we're

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Speaker 3: discussing right here reminds me of the feeling you get

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Speaker 3: when you're deeply immersed in a video game. And I

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Speaker 3: think it's probably almost more powerful in that respect, because

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Speaker 3: even though your body is reacting, your fingers are touching

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Speaker 3: some control mechanism, your entire consciousness is existing in whatever

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Speaker 3: that imaginary world is on your screen. However you're experiencing

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Speaker 3: the video game, especially in a VR setting or something

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Speaker 3: to where all of the external stimuli, especially if you're

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Speaker 3: wearing headphones, just goes away. That's just what I'm thinking

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Speaker 3: about when I'm hearing.

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Speaker 2: All of this agreed.

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Speaker 1: In conventional hypnosis, we approach the suggestion of our hypnotists

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Speaker 1: or yourself if you're the hypnotist, as if they were reality.

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Speaker 1: But on some level we are always aware that this

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Speaker 1: is not the concrete, you know, baseline reality. It's it's

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Speaker 1: like we're playing pretend, similar to when you would play

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Speaker 1: games as children, but on a more intense level. And

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Speaker 1: in this particular mental state, people do feel uninhibited, it

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Speaker 1: do feel relaxed, Presumably this is because you get a

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Speaker 1: bit further away cognitively from the worries and doubts that

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Speaker 1: usually keep our actions in check. This all leads to

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Speaker 1: subjects of hypnotism also being highly suggestible, which is how

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Speaker 1: you can hypnotize someone and convince them that they had

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Speaker 1: an experience they just now remembered right, and then boom,

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Speaker 1: you can write a book. So this has been the

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Speaker 1: path for a lot of unethical therapists, especially in the

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Speaker 1: nineties and eighties. By the way, this is how stage

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Speaker 1: magicians can get people to do things that are endearing

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Speaker 1: but not dangerous. However, the CIA did not research hypnotism

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Speaker 1: to make people squawk like chickens or learn to chill

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Speaker 1: axe and be laid back af Instead, they did this

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Speaker 1: to teach their agents psychic powers.

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Speaker 2: And we'll get into that right afterword from our sponsor.

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Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. Yes, that is correct. The

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Speaker 1: CIA researched psychic powers or extrasensory perception AKAESP.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a lot like something we've discussed on the

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Speaker 3: show before.

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Speaker 2: Remote viewing.

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Speaker 3: Remember this remote viewing in Project Stargate, that whole military

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Speaker 3: program from seventy eight. Probably seen the movie the menu

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Speaker 3: steric goats. Loosely based on that, or somewhat based on that,

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Speaker 3: the CIA had this whole separate program specifically to research

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Speaker 3: potential of remote viewing and you know, in this like

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Speaker 3: kind of weird sci fi way, to unlock those powers

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Speaker 3: of the human mind, the ones that have been hidden

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Speaker 3: away or that we forgot about, or we just don't

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Speaker 3: realize when we're on this corporeal plane that we have.

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Speaker 1: And they did not go into this endeavor alone. They

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Speaker 1: partnered out, They contracted out. They went to a place

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Speaker 1: called the Monroe Institute. From the late nineteen seventies into

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Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties, the CIA paid for intelligence officers to

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Speaker 1: go on week long excursions to an out of the

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Speaker 1: way place called the Monroe Institute. The Monroe Institute specialized

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Speaker 1: in out of body experiences and astral projection. And Matt,

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Speaker 1: you had done a little bit of digging on the

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Speaker 1: namesake of the Monroe Institute.

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Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, yeah, I did.

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Speaker 3: There's this guy named Robert A.

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Speaker 2: Monroe.

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Speaker 3: He is a fascinating subject. He was an executive for

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Speaker 3: broadcast radio in several different respects, several different I guess

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Speaker 3: you can call it stations. He ended up making his

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Speaker 3: own company, and as part of his company that he created,

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Speaker 3: he was doing a lot of research into audio and

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Speaker 3: one thing that just kind of happened to occur. As

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Speaker 3: he's doing all this research on how audio effects listeners,

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Speaker 3: other new things we can do with audio, how can

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Speaker 3: we influence people who are listening, he stumbled upon this

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Speaker 3: idea that perhaps through tones we can influence the way

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Speaker 3: people experience either other audio or even get someone to

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Speaker 3: encounter what he would later coin in one of his

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Speaker 3: books and out of body experience.

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Speaker 1: Right right in his nineteen seventy one book Journeys Out

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Speaker 1: of the Body? Is that correct?

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Speaker 2: Yes? Correct?

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Speaker 3: And in far Journeys is another one of his books,

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Speaker 3: Ultimate Journey, lots of journeys, Journey out of the Body,

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Speaker 3: that's that's the big one. It's really I mean, he's

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Speaker 3: a fascinating character. And if you go to the Monroe

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Speaker 3: Institute's website, which is m Nroeinstitute dot org, you can

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Speaker 3: actually find YouTube videos of this man, Bob Monroe as

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Speaker 3: he's called a lot of times where he's giving talks.

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Speaker 3: And I started going down this rabbit hole today with

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Speaker 3: this guy. He has some kind of I guess what

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Speaker 3: would be considered out of their ideas about what human

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Speaker 3: consciousness is. I guess what he's discovered through his explorations

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Speaker 3: of his own technology and his own techniques. I don't

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Speaker 3: I actually don't want to describe them in full detail here.

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Speaker 3: I would just encourage you to listen to some of these,

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Speaker 3: because if I just told you in a bulleted point

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Speaker 3: what he believes experience is as consciousness, you would just

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Speaker 3: probably sigh, roll your eyes and then leave. But I

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Speaker 3: think after hearing what we're going to tell you today,

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Speaker 3: then maybe watching these your mind might be a little

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Speaker 3: more open or susceptible to suggestion.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and just I agree with that, Matt. Just to

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Speaker 1: give everyone a taste of where we're where we're coming

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Speaker 1: from with this, let's describe Bob's findings not in his

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Speaker 1: own words, but in an excellent short summary by journalist

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Speaker 1: Caroline Haskins writing for Motherboard on Vice. She says, human

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Speaker 1: consciousness is nothing but an intersection of energy planes that

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Speaker 1: forms a hologram able to travel through space time all

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Speaker 1: one word, across the universe and into the past, present,

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Speaker 1: and future. That's the elevator pitch for the nature of

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Speaker 1: consciousness is seen by the Monroe Institute. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: more to it, so check it out, I guess before

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Speaker 1: you make your final call. This was very out there

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Speaker 1: for some people, but it was also very promising for others,

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Speaker 1: including people like Army Commander Wayne M. McDonell, who, in

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Speaker 1: June of nineteen eighty three was asked to give his

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Speaker 1: commander an assessment of the psychic services provided by the

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Speaker 1: Monroe Institute. This was doing something called Project Center Lane.

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Speaker 1: The Monroe Institute is known for not just Bob's opinions

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Speaker 1: on the nature of human consciousness and its interactions with

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Speaker 1: what we call reality, but for the patented technology that

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Speaker 1: he and his associates had created. They call it hemi

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Speaker 1: sync short for hemisphere synchronization, and it uses audio to

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Speaker 1: quote synchronize the brain waves of the left and right

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Speaker 1: sides of the brain. According to the website, this makes

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Speaker 1: the brain more receptive to hypnosis and all of the

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Speaker 1: other potential things they believe the human mind can do

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Speaker 1: while in that state.

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Speaker 3: And you may have heard of this before a lot

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Speaker 3: of times, it's referred to as binormal beats. On the Internet,

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Speaker 3: you can find YouTube videos of purported binoral beats, and

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Speaker 3: generally it has to do with two different, similar but

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Speaker 3: not the same, tones that are being played in stereo

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Speaker 3: into both of your ears.

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Speaker 1: Right, and as we established before, audio has tremendous power,

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Speaker 1: some effects of which are more apparent than others. So

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Speaker 1: Wayne was asked to provide this assessment after he had

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Speaker 1: completed the week long psychic program at the institute a

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Speaker 1: month prior. And this institute, just for reference, is located

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Speaker 1: in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia in a small

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Speaker 1: town called Faber Is about thirty miles east of Charlottesville.

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Speaker 1: That probably gives our US audience a rough sense. For

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Speaker 1: everyone outside of the US, I think they're just this

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Speaker 1: series of names. But if you pop on Google Maps

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Speaker 1: you can see. The point we're making is this is

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Speaker 1: relatively isolated. So here's the question. What did McDonald say. Well,

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Speaker 1: his report formed the basis of a twenty nine page

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Speaker 1: Army document that featured detailed explanations of hypnosis, holograms, and

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Speaker 1: out of body experiences. The documents placed these phenomena in

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Speaker 1: the context of these larger ideas of consciousness, energy, space, time,

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Speaker 1: them subatomic particles. The astral projection. Right, of course, astral

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Speaker 1: projection is the idea that one can uncouple the mind

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Speaker 1: and the body and send the mind free throughout all

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Speaker 1: sorts of places and doesn't have to travel through linear time.

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Speaker 1: I do want to note here that we primarily focus

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Speaker 1: on this being a CIA activity, but a lot of

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Speaker 1: this was the CIA and the Army functioning sort of

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Speaker 1: hand in glove. They were sharing a lot of research

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Speaker 1: on this. So McDonald's cites a metaphor penned by a

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Speaker 1: Monroe Institute employee named Melissa Jagger or Jaeger, in order

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Speaker 1: to illustrate the nature of hypnosis. The metaphor says that

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Speaker 1: the normal state of consciousness is kind of like a lamp,

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Speaker 1: and that means it emits light in a chaotic, incoherent way,

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Speaker 1: but in which.

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Speaker 3: We kind of in a way disagree with that because

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Speaker 3: it's just more of like an omnipresent singles source of

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Speaker 3: light that goes in all directions.

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Speaker 2: But but we agree.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, But a hypnotized state of consciousness, by contrast, would

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Speaker 1: be like a laser beam and thoughts and energy are

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Speaker 1: as you had said earlier, Matt describing hypnosis, they're like

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Speaker 1: a disciplined stream of light or like a laser. So

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Speaker 1: when they're doing project Center Lane when when they're working

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Speaker 1: on this, the big question here is how they found candidates, right,

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Speaker 1: How how did they How did they get officers to

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Speaker 1: participate in Project Center Lane.

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Speaker 3: Well, the first thing you got to do when you're

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Speaker 3: going to bring someone on into some kind of hypnosis

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Speaker 3: study and or learning and training technique is to hypnotize them.

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Speaker 3: That's of course first and foremost, and then after they're

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Speaker 3: under hypnosis, they would practice like reaching this place this

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Speaker 3: of consciousness considered the astral plane. And the whole goal

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Speaker 3: is to learn foreign languages, like basically be able to

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Speaker 3: teach yourself things at a faster pace, to enter the matrix,

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Speaker 3: if you will, in a way, and to also do

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Speaker 3: this thing that the documents referred to as habit control training,

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Speaker 3: which you can assume has to do with, you know,

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Speaker 3: training each of these people who are going to take

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Speaker 3: part in this to do certain things, to not do

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Speaker 3: certain things, although the details of that are lost to us.

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Speaker 1: According to one of the declassified files, two hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty one Army Intelligence candidates were selected for the first

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Speaker 1: year of experimentation, and of those candidates, one hundred and

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Speaker 1: seventeen were initially interviewed under the impression that they were

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Speaker 1: just taking a survey, right. McDonald was trying to find

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Speaker 1: people who were in the middle of the Bell curve

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Speaker 1: regarding credulism versus skepticism. So people who objected military use

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Speaker 1: of what they called psycho energetics categorically were not considered

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Speaker 1: to be good candidates. And then on the other side

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Speaker 1: of the spectrum, people who seemed incredibly gassed and excited

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Speaker 1: about psycho energetics, or people who, by whatever measure they

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Speaker 1: had this study conducted, considered to be occult fanatics or

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Speaker 1: mystical zealots, were also out of their running. But for

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Speaker 1: the people who were accepted, they were shipped off on

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Speaker 1: a real weird field trip. They went to the Monroe

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Speaker 1: Institute and then they would listen to this Heemi sync audio.

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Speaker 1: After this, one of the institute's research associates would do

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Speaker 1: the guided meditation that you mentioned earlier, Matt. They would

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Speaker 1: guide intelligence officers into the astral plane, the psychic space,

435
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: in which the Institute maintained that officers could heighten their

436
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: sensory experiences, accelerate their healing, travel into the past or

437
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: the future, or even solve real world delay as without

438
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 1: the restraints of a physical body whoa I know, right.

439
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 1: Another technique known as remote viewing was also employed, and

440
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,160
Speaker 1: this is something that should be familiar if you caught

441
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 1: our earlier interview with the scientist Russell targ or some

442
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 1: of our work on Project Stargate. According to a declassified

443
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 1: document from eighty two, which doesn't specifically explicitly mention the

444
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: Army or the Monroe Institute.

445
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, because they didn't go until the next year, right right.

446
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: This does, however, follow the precise description of remote viewing

447
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: as explained by the as explained by the nineteen eighty

448
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: three doc that does mention Monroe by name. So what

449
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: were they doing exactly? What was their first big milestone

450
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: test goal. The answer will surprise you, we promise, and

451
00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 1: we'll tell you after a word from our sponsor.

452
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 3: Well, according to the documents that we found online, the

453
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,959
Speaker 3: goal of all of this remote viewing, all of the

454
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,239
Speaker 3: energy that all of these people put in, was to

455
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 3: remotely view Mars in the year one million BC, basically

456
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 3: to find out if there was a human civilization or

457
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 3: another extraterrestrial civilization of intelligent beings that lived on Mars

458
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 3: back then.

459
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,959
Speaker 1: According to the transcript and interviewer read coordinates and verbal

460
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: cues to a subject, and the subject claimed to see

461
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 1: dust storms, alien structures, and even an ancient alien race.

462
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 1: You can, by the way, you can see all of

463
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 1: the stuff we're describing at CIA dot gov just searching

464
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: through their reading room and you'll you will see this

465
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: written out explicitly. We're not stiling on this nor paraphrasing.

466
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 2: You heard that it's on the CIA's website.

467
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 1: It's true. So some people did say that they saw something.

468
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: You could either you know, you can read the transcript

469
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: and decide for yourself whether they're just hyper suggestible and

470
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: maybe they're just kind of improvising and riffing on cues

471
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: that the research associated or already gave them. But here's

472
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: here's one description from a subject who certainly saw something.

473
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: He says, very tall, again, very large people, but they're

474
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 1: they're thin. They look thin because of their height, and

475
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: they dress like, oh hell, it's like it's like a

476
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: real light silk, but it's not you know, flowing type

477
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 1: of clothing. It's it's cut to fit their they're ancient people.

478
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: They're they're dying, it's past their time or age. They're

479
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: very philosophic about it. They're looking for a way to

480
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 1: survive and they just can't.

481
00:30:59,400 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 2: Wow.

482
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: This is just one example, to be fair, That is

483
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: a direct quote, but there are other examples out there.

484
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 3: Was he was he from Georgia or Alabama?

485
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 2: Where was he from?

486
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: It maybe lost to history. I don't know if it's

487
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 1: the source, but it sounded like he went through being

488
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: from maybe four or five very different places in the

489
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: course of that description.

490
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 2: You know what I mean.

491
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess he was a military brat, moved around

492
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 1: a lot. But this is all real. This all definitely happened,

493
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: And the big question is what happened next after they

494
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 1: sent these people for these things? What did they find?

495
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: What did the Army and the CIA find with HEMI

496
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 1: sink technology.

497
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 3: Well, there's this guy who was described as a personal

498
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 3: management analyst named Ray Ray Waldkoter. He wrote this article

499
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 3: for the nineteen ninety one HEMI Sink Journal. So they've

500
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 3: got an entire journal here. And again, the Monroe Institute

501
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 3: was a research arm created through his research and development

502
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 3: efforts through his broadcast company. Okay, so he's reviewing the

503
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 3: army's uses of HEMI sync technology. So he had the

504
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 3: Army looking at their technology. Now they're looking back on

505
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 3: how the Army is going to be using it. And

506
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 3: in this he states that the Army variously used HEMICNK

507
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 3: technology for stress reduction, psychological counseling, and enhanced learning abilities

508
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 3: for various levels of personnel, as well as training for

509
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 3: people seeking officer level positions. So really, they truly are

510
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,959
Speaker 3: at least in several ways here attempting to use it

511
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 3: like the matrix, to teach people skills as fast as

512
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 3: they can and as efficiently as possible.

513
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 1: And Waltcotter wrote also that several intensive Army military training

514
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: programs have been conducted using the technology. This is where

515
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 1: it gets this. This is pretty fascinating because he said

516
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: these programs demonstrated positive results, which means that in one

517
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: or more than one of the fields of research that

518
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: they were conducting this technology, Hemisinc. Was found to be successful.

519
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 1: We don't know which fields, we don't know how successful.

520
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 1: We just know that they felt there was something to it,

521
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: and as a result, research continued until nineteen ninety five,

522
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: when the Defense Appropriations Act directs the program to be

523
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 1: transferred to way for it the CIA, and the CIA

524
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: keeps working with this. We're not sure exactly what they

525
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: did with it, because we don't know what did or

526
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: did not make it into a written report. But the

527
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 1: CIA itself later said remote viewing had not been proven

528
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: to work by a psychic mechanism specifically, and they assured

529
00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: us or assured themselves internally, that it had not been

530
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 1: used operationally. Furthermore, the CIA concluded that there was nothing

531
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 1: striking or surprising about its findings after doing research of

532
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 1: their own. Yeah, so now we're at another than a

533
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 1: fork in the road.

534
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 2: Right.

535
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:26,400
Speaker 1: Over twenty million dollars was sunk into this project, of

536
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: which we're aware, and to be fair, that is not

537
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 1: a huge figure in comparison to many other strange Army

538
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 1: and CIA projects. But let's remember that the US public

539
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,359
Speaker 1: footed the bill here, and this was at a time

540
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 1: when people were, as they are now still in need

541
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: of education, medical care, food, and so on. So is

542
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 1: it money well spent? Was it foolish? Is there more

543
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: to the story? I don't know, But maybe you're saying, hey, guys,

544
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: I'm I'm a person who learns through experience. I want

545
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,359
Speaker 1: to fight follow in the footsteps of the CIA and

546
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: Army intelligence and figure this out for myself while we

547
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: have good news for you friends and neighbors. The Monroe Institute,

548
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: as we record, is still operating. It's still around, it

549
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: is still selling it's Hemisinc. Program Today. So you can

550
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 1: take a week off yourself and go find out what

551
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: all the hubbub is about.

552
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:26,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's everything from many one day programs, or

553
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 3: you can jump on one of their five to six

554
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 3: day consciousness programs and you guys, the Monroe Institutes and

555
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 3: kind of in a silly way, but also in I'm

556
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 3: genuinely interested in this about You could take a class

557
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 3: about energy medicine. You can take a class that's described

558
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 3: as event horizon conscious presence. We could all probably use

559
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 3: a little bit of that nowadays. Or something called animal

560
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 3: and interspecies communication. Now that one I'm into. If I

561
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 3: could talk to my dog, like really know what's going on,

562
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 3: that would be huge.

563
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 2: That's your pick, that's my pick.

564
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 3: Awesome or event horizon whatever that is.

565
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 1: So let us know your experience with this, if you

566
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 1: decide to engage in this sort of activity, or if

567
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 1: you take a field trip to the Monroe Institute, let

568
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 1: us know if you've been to this or something like this,

569
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: in the past, we would love to hear your stories.

570
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 1: Most importantly, like all classified projects, this was technically a conspiracy,

571
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,240
Speaker 1: not a theory. They really spent the money in secret

572
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 1: the Army and then later of the CIA. Yet for

573
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:48,879
Speaker 1: fringe researchers, the admitted conspiracy is simply a distraction, sort

574
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 1: of a red herring to throw you off the trail.

575
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:57,240
Speaker 1: And they'll argue that this sort of experimentation continues today.

576
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 1: So if we took a lot little bit of time

577
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: to speculate, to engage in some what iffery, let's see

578
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 1: what would be the best way to conduct this sort

579
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 1: of experimentation without the usual legal limitations imposed by domestic

580
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:25,320
Speaker 1: and international law. First, if we throw morals to the wayside,

581
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 1: you would probably want to set up an institution or

582
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 1: a laboratory of some sort in a place that the

583
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 1: US controlled but was not legally obligated towards, so like Diego,

584
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 1: Garcia maybe, or one of the islands where so many

585
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,800
Speaker 1: people have been black bagged in the War on Terror.

586
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 1: And then you would want, of course keep it out

587
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: of the news. You would also you would also want

588
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 1: to make sure that you could dope the subjects up

589
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 1: as much as you wanted to see how far into

590
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 1: that state you could get them before there were deletorious

591
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 1: cognitive or physical effects, and then probably just to get

592
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 1: a baseline, you would keep going until if you died.

593
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 1: That's the kind of stuff that you will see fringe

594
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 1: researchers arguing is happening now as we record today. There

595
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,959
Speaker 1: isn't proof of that, but that is some disturbing speculation

596
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: and just saying that that could happen, which absolutely good.

597
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 1: For all we know it could be happening now. Just

598
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,399
Speaker 1: saying that could happen is not the same thing as

599
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: saying any of that would result in actual remote viewing,

600
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, or reproducible astral travel and

601
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: so on. I'm just saying it is completely possible for

602
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 1: the US and other powerful governments do kidnap people, take

603
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 1: them into a place where ethical constraints do not apply,

604
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:52,800
Speaker 1: and experiment on them.

605
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 3: There you go, Or you could just, I don't know,

606
00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 3: pump some of that binaural stuff the HEMI sink stuff

607
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 3: into the radio waves and see how it plays on

608
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 3: the public overall. Does it have any effects on humans

609
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 3: while they're driving or while they're listening to their podcasts?

610
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 1: That's very good.

611
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,800
Speaker 3: Did you guys notice the the hemi sink technology happening

612
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 3: in your ears while you're listening to this?

613
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:23,879
Speaker 2: You didn't because we weren't using it.

614
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 3: But.

615
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 2: Wouldn't that be cool if we did?

616
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 1: And that's our classic episode for this evening. We can't

617
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 1: wait to hear your thoughts. It's right let us know

618
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 1: what you think.

619
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 3: You can reach.

620
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 1: You to the handle Conspiracy Stuff where we exist on

621
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: Facebook X and YouTube on Instagram and TikTok or Conspiracy

622
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 1: Stuff Show.

623
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,359
Speaker 3: If you want to call us dial one eight three

624
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 3: three std WYTK. That's our voicemail system. You've got three minutes.

625
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 3: Give yourself a cool nickname and let us know if

626
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:54,959
Speaker 3: we can use your name and message on the air.

627
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 3: If you got more to say, then can fit in

628
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 3: that voicemail. Why not instead send us a good old

629
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 3: fashion email.

630
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: We are the entities that read every single piece of

631
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 1: correspondence we receive. Be aware, yet not afraid. Sometimes the

632
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:30,800
Speaker 1: void writes back conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

633
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 3: Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production

634
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

635
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,959
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,