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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome

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Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always

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Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. This is part two of

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Speaker 1: a special two part series on weird courtship rituals throughout

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Speaker 1: you know, human history. We're not getting tall of them,

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Speaker 1: but we found some weird ones. That's the one and

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Speaker 1: only Max Williams. Uh. They called me, Ben Noel. How

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Speaker 1: are you doing, man, I'm good man. I'm feeling really

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Speaker 1: good about this premeditated two partner beak behind the curtain.

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Speaker 1: Usually we end up just kind of like making them

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Speaker 1: two partners because we'd like to get an extra episode

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Speaker 1: out of it, or it runs a little long. But

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Speaker 1: you know, this is special, not only because of the

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Speaker 1: premeditated nature of it, but because we are joined by

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Speaker 1: our friends Diana and Eli once again to talk about

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Speaker 1: more ridiculous, weird bizarro courtships from across the world. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for coming, guys, Oh thanks for having us. Yeah now

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Speaker 1: in our In our previous episode, we dove pretty deep

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Speaker 1: into some oh some literally puritanical dating practices. We also

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Speaker 1: traveled to Mauritania, where we looked at an ancient ongoing

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Speaker 1: tremendously controversial pre marriage practice, a very very specific kind

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Speaker 1: of terrible summer camp, and today we're going to two

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Speaker 1: completely different locations in the world. I've got to ask, though,

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Speaker 1: before we begin, did you guys find this episode that

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Speaker 1: we recorded earlier? Did you find it staying with you

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Speaker 1: over the weekend, like Diana, Were you trying to find

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Speaker 1: like according tube to talk to Eli or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: I know, I guess I wasn't. I wasn't trying to

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Speaker 1: find a tube or anything. I did think it. I

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Speaker 1: just scream across the house, you know what I mean. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we wouldn't have a too long enough to reach between

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Speaker 1: the rooms. I have to say I did discuss bundling

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Speaker 1: with my my girlfriend, not like that we should do

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Speaker 1: it or anything, but yeah, it just it was a

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Speaker 1: good conversation and she didn't know about it. And so

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Speaker 1: I hope that that episode armed all you ridiculous stories

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Speaker 1: out there with some good conversation for your significant others.

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Speaker 1: Are you know to look smart at parties, because that's

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Speaker 1: what we're here for. Yeah, well grab your thimbles, uh

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Speaker 1: and to sheer off the bottoms of them. Yes, O.

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Speaker 1: Strap in for part two? What are we talking about.

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Speaker 1: It's funny because all fair we were talking with each

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Speaker 1: other before we started rolling, and our conversation was, you

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Speaker 1: know how some podcasts just seem to constantly allude to

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Speaker 1: stuff they did or stuff they were talking about that's

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Speaker 1: not on air. We decided we're not gonna be those

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Speaker 1: folks today. At least if you want to hear in

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Speaker 1: detail what we're talking about just a few minutes ago,

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Speaker 1: then tune into Part one of Weird Courtship Rituals. This

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Speaker 1: episode will still make sense, but it's it's you know,

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Speaker 1: it's more rewarding if you get the whole like narrative

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Speaker 1: arc that we weren't dot. Uh. So we'll pause for

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Speaker 1: the magic of podcasting to uh give everybody a chance

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Speaker 1: to get caught up. They're great, fantastic, So you listen

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Speaker 1: to part one. We're ready for part two. Where do

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Speaker 1: we go? First, let's say, um, I never get the

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Speaker 1: chance to talk about this country on Eric. We go

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Speaker 1: to bouton. Oh yeah, sure, let's please talk about Bhutan today.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about a practice in Bhutan called bomina. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It's also known more colloquially as night hunting, and this

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Speaker 1: is something that's mostly fallen out of practice in Bhutan,

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Speaker 1: but it still exists in rural areas. It's a very

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Speaker 1: old tradition. Bomina literally means going towards a girl and

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Speaker 1: that sounds sweet, right. Uh, Well, I don't know. It

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Speaker 1: depends on how you're going towards the girl. But what

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Speaker 1: energy are you bringing your coming at her? Weapon? Are

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Speaker 1: you running? Are you strolling? I need more information. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's worse than any of that, because the practice is

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Speaker 1: that in theory, any man can after nightfall climbed the

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Speaker 1: house of the walls of a girl, Jimmy opened her window,

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Speaker 1: climbing into her room, slip into her bed, and sleep

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Speaker 1: with her. That eight pretty exciting stuff. Sounds pretty horrific,

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Speaker 1: and in truth, uh, this is a very old practice.

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Speaker 1: Bhutan is a matriarchal society. For example, the daughters inherit

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Speaker 1: property from their parents. But a lot of rural folks,

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Speaker 1: especially and older folks like really believe in this tradition.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people say their grandparents met this way

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Speaker 1: and it's very sweet and they love it. Originally, it

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Speaker 1: was meant to give the women actually more control because

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Speaker 1: they decide when the boy shows up at the house

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Speaker 1: whether or not he's allowed into the bed or not sure,

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Speaker 1: but he could just knock on the door and I

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Speaker 1: could be like, oh no, thank you and close the door.

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Speaker 1: Why do you have to climb in at the dead

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Speaker 1: of night and breaking inner into my house like a

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Speaker 1: weird burglar? Yeah, well exactly, And this has been kind

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Speaker 1: of the problem with it, especially recently. A woman uh

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Speaker 1: sonam Wangdi from the Trunks of village married a man

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Speaker 1: that she met through Bomina and she said, before marriage,

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Speaker 1: I had lost count of the men who visited me.

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Speaker 1: It's not about forcing. The tradition gives freedom to the

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Speaker 1: women and to choose, but there are some men who

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Speaker 1: forced themselves. It is for the exploitation of innocent women

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Speaker 1: that the custom has lost its beauty. So surprised this

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Speaker 1: didn't go very well forever he gave him an inch

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Speaker 1: and they took a mile. Oh, I know. It just

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Speaker 1: seems like it's asking for trouble. It sounds like something

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Speaker 1: out of like a Chaucer story. I feel like there

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Speaker 1: is that is a thing from the Canterbury Tales, like

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Speaker 1: you know, and it was more like a cuckolding husband situation.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah. The line in chaucer, I think is I

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Speaker 1: can't remember. It's the Miller's tale. It's one of the

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Speaker 1: ones that I actually finished. But there's this seat in

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Speaker 1: chaucer where there's this guy who just won't take no

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Speaker 1: for an answer. He's trying to get this girl to

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Speaker 1: lead out of the window and kiss kiss him, and

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Speaker 1: it's really dark, and she does put something down the

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Speaker 1: window and he does kiss it, but it's it's not

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Speaker 1: her front end. Ah yes, ah, yes, that's right. Coming

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Speaker 1: back to me now. So okay, you say the beauty

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Speaker 1: has gone out of it. I'm sorry, I don't quite

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Speaker 1: understand where what happens gorgeous, I mean, there has to

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Speaker 1: be more to this, like I mean you say it

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Speaker 1: gives it gives the the young woman more agency, but

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Speaker 1: at the same time, like you know, dudes be aggressive. Traditionally,

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Speaker 1: this is in like small towns, everybody kind of knows

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Speaker 1: each other, and what really is happening is generally speaking,

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Speaker 1: the boy and the girl would have met up beforehand

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Speaker 1: at social events. They've seen each other, and typically this

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Speaker 1: was agreed upon, but not always. Sometimes they just show up.

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Speaker 1: In either case, the guy has to be super quiet

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Speaker 1: because most of these families all sleep in the same room,

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Speaker 1: and so if she decides to make any noise, Dad

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Speaker 1: wakes up and they are just as protective as fathers anywhere,

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Speaker 1: and they will literally throw this guy out the windows.

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Speaker 1: Some have been chased away with scalding hot water. Um

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Speaker 1: it really doesn't go well for anyone, right. It kind

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Speaker 1: of reminds me of bundling a little bit, like where

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Speaker 1: they took They got permission before hand. They sleep in

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Speaker 1: the same bed, all the parents are around. You got

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Speaker 1: to be real quiet. You still have to be quiet. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's weird. They're carving out these umr carving out

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Speaker 1: these areas of social plausible deniability, right like right, well,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't want to jump ahead too far,

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Speaker 1: but what's the birth control situation? It is bad, and

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Speaker 1: that is one of the major problems here is unplanned

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Speaker 1: pregnancies and not knowing who the fathers are. Again, in

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Speaker 1: smaller villages they say, usually you know who the father

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Speaker 1: is because you know, fifty people live here. We know

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Speaker 1: who's with who, and we can figure it out pretty easily.

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Speaker 1: And there are DNA tests, but especially even in some

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Speaker 1: of the rural areas and in cities, they're saying it's

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Speaker 1: expensive for these DNA paternity tests to come through. And

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Speaker 1: often here's the kicker, here's what's really made it taking

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Speaker 1: the beauty out of it, as they say, uh, is

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Speaker 1: that in these small towns, even where everyone's pretty comfortable

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Speaker 1: with the tradition, you have people coming in from out

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Speaker 1: of town and taking advantage of this practice. And they're like,

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Speaker 1: if the father ends up being someone who's an ext

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Speaker 1: patriot or sometimes even a monk, they say that the

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Speaker 1: courts can't do anything for paternity, and a woman's left

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Speaker 1: on her own. Also, without knowing who the father is,

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Speaker 1: it's very difficult to get the child registered on their senses.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it takes up to six or eight years, and

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Speaker 1: the children can't even start schooling until they know who

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Speaker 1: the father is. Wait, so no government services up to

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Speaker 1: and including like the public school system. Yeah, they have

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Speaker 1: to be registered through the census first, and that for

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Speaker 1: that you need paternity. Uh are a very lengthy process

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Speaker 1: without it. So wait, so when you say eight years

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Speaker 1: to get registered with the census, that means you know,

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Speaker 1: school until right at all? Right, I mean, I guess

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Speaker 1: you know who needs kindergarten? You know, as a guy

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Speaker 1: who had to repeat kindergarten. You don't learned that much.

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Speaker 1: Life can go on without it. But I think I

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Speaker 1: think it's socialization. But we know also that Bhutan has

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Speaker 1: in terms of who they consider citizens in general, it

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Speaker 1: gets kind of tricky, right. I believe there's a Nepalese

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Speaker 1: descended population there that is still struggling for the same

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Speaker 1: rights as people the kingdom considers native Bhutanese. Is that correct?

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Speaker 1: So there was this huge movement about this online in

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Speaker 1: social media, and around two thousand twelve it kind of

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Speaker 1: came up and they organized like an NGO and nonprofit

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Speaker 1: to start helping the women and start bringing attention to

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Speaker 1: this practice. And there was a journalist who wrote her

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Speaker 1: name is Robin Darbawa, and she had written into the

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Speaker 1: email address that they provided, and the government answered them

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Speaker 1: and said, the two girls who used this email have

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Speaker 1: surrendered it to the government. They have been educated and

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Speaker 1: now they are not going to talk about anything like this,

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Speaker 1: which actually does not happen in Bhutan anymore. So I

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Speaker 1: was getting a real cover up. And they say that's

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Speaker 1: because the government just isn't really able to track it

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Speaker 1: very well, so they don't really admit to it very much.

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Speaker 1: Defenders of the practice say, well, urban people in Bhutan

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Speaker 1: and people who don't live in Bhutan are criticizing rural

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Speaker 1: areas and mothering them for this practice and saying they're

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Speaker 1: less civilized and that they're blaming um unwanted pregnancies and

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Speaker 1: venereal diseases on this practice, as if they don't have

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Speaker 1: those problems in the cities. But they do, and they say,

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Speaker 1: you know, getting rid of bow Mino would not magically

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Speaker 1: erase all those problems because you all have them too.

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Speaker 1: So that's been kind of the cultural argument between defenders

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Speaker 1: and UH and people who think this is absolutely insane.

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Speaker 1: You can just break into a woman's house at night,

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Speaker 1: So this is something that's done with the consent and

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Speaker 1: understanding of the parents, Like this is a conversation that happens.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't necessarily happen with the parents. Often it happens

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Speaker 1: with the boy and girl beforehand, and you literally have

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Speaker 1: to go in and sneak your way in. What they

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Speaker 1: said is again, in smaller villages where they sort of

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Speaker 1: know who's coming in and who isn't, the parents will

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Speaker 1: sometimes lie awake knowing that the boy is broken in.

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Speaker 1: If they think he's a good suitor for marriage. Because

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Speaker 1: also if you are seen in the bed in the morning,

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Speaker 1: the boys often sneak out, but if they're seen there

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Speaker 1: when they wake up, they're pretty much married. Don't sleep

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Speaker 1: pretty much locks it in. You can come over, but

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Speaker 1: you can't stay. Uh. That's so. That's Uh. It seems

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Speaker 1: like there's some again, some traditional constraints. But these this

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Speaker 1: practice itself, in addition to being you know, a hot

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Speaker 1: button issue and quite controversial, it seems like this practice

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Speaker 1: is undergoing some cultural pressures because, uh, this sounds like

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Speaker 1: it's still more often than not going to happen in

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Speaker 1: rural areas instead of like the capital Thimpoo. Um. But

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Speaker 1: there are tourists in Bhutan now, uh, not a ton,

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Speaker 1: but I imagine they breathe through the more rural, you know,

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Speaker 1: eastern areas of the country. How do they interact with this?

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Speaker 1: Is this a Boutaneese only kind of operation? I think

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Speaker 1: the Butaneese would love that, but it's not necessarily they

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Speaker 1: say that. You know. Again, tourists from out of the

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Speaker 1: country or even from other towns sometimes or other cities

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Speaker 1: will take up the practice on their own and try

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Speaker 1: to go sneak into a girl's room at night, and

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Speaker 1: if they're aware of it, they take advantage of it.

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Speaker 1: And this is one of the things that has led

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Speaker 1: to the most problems with the whole with the whole culture,

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Speaker 1: you know, other people taking the advantage of it. Again,

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Speaker 1: unwanted pregnancies and not knowing who the father is because

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Speaker 1: these guys slip in and out from out of town.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes boys are even quoted, you know. They they talked

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Speaker 1: to a man who was married through this practice. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He and his wife both supported it because it worked

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Speaker 1: out great for them. And in that same conversation he says, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, and before I met my wife, of course,

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Speaker 1: you know, you gotta have a little trial and error first.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes my friends and I would just go over

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Speaker 1: the next town to have some fun, so, you know,

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Speaker 1: literally going somewhere where no one's going to know who

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Speaker 1: they are, so they can sneak away again without any

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Speaker 1: consequences of their own yikes. I guess it would be

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Speaker 1: it would feel it would feel less problematic if there

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Speaker 1: were more interviews or more statements from people saying, yes,

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Speaker 1: some guy might show up at my house, but if

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Speaker 1: I don't like him, I just I do tell him

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Speaker 1: to go away, and he does go away. Did you

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Speaker 1: find any of those, Um, yes, I mean some of

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Speaker 1: the women. Especially again, usually it was women maybe forty

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Speaker 1: year older or even older than that is, when it

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Speaker 1: was more kind of standard and practice regularly who really

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Speaker 1: defended and said, yeah, I kicked out guys I until

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Speaker 1: I found the man I loved uh and had no

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Speaker 1: trouble with it. But often those arguments were pretty dismissive

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Speaker 1: of the women who definitely did have trouble with it

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Speaker 1: of the bad experiences, you know, they kind of took

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Speaker 1: their own and said, no, it's fine. It's really interesting.

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Speaker 1: I do wonder though, sometimes if maybe, you know, since

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Speaker 1: it is a practice that in this matriarchal society seems

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Speaker 1: to you know, have its roots in empowerment, that maybe

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Speaker 1: there are some women that didn't have the best experiences

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Speaker 1: but in the interest of like being team players, maybe

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Speaker 1: sugarcoated a little bit. I don't know, it's certainly a possibility. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that's definitely a possibility, because, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: you get that impression, especially from like the NGOs that

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Speaker 1: have been set up to sort of try and fight

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Speaker 1: this practice that they're saying, you know, a lot of

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Speaker 1: these women don't have a voice, and in speaking out

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Speaker 1: against this um whether they don't have you know, the

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Speaker 1: reach or the or whatever, they might need to sort

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Speaker 1: of speak out against it, the opportunity, the platform, they

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Speaker 1: sort of pick and choose, you know what you're hearing

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Speaker 1: about it. So it's interesting that there's actually this is

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Speaker 1: almost a weird flip side of the story, uh that

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Speaker 1: I'm going to tell, or the tradition that I'm going

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Speaker 1: to talk about. I'm I'm kind of glad you you lead,

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Speaker 1: because this is sort of like two sides of this

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Speaker 1: very strange coin, both striving for empowerment. I think one

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Speaker 1: perhaps succeeding a little bit more. I don't want to

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Speaker 1: spoil it quite well. Again, you know, this is one

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Speaker 1: of those things where we have to realize that Bhutan

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Speaker 1: is very much, for the majority of the world an

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Speaker 1: inaccessible place. It's a the this is if you if

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Speaker 1: you're not familiar with the country, it is mountainous, it

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Speaker 1: is incredibly difficult to get to, partially historically due to geography,

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Speaker 1: but nowadays also due to decisions of the government of

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Speaker 1: the monarchy, which I believe that if you want to

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Speaker 1: travel to Bata and as an out cider. There are

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Speaker 1: pretty exorbitant fees you pay per day. Tourists also cannot

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Speaker 1: exceed like a certain quota per year, but in their

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Speaker 1: in their favor. UH. Bhutan has the distinction of being

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Speaker 1: the only country to rate it's overall success not on

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Speaker 1: gross domestic product or anything like that, but on gross

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Speaker 1: national happiness, which is pretty difficult to quantify. It sounds

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Speaker 1: like it could get confusing and also makes me wonder,

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Speaker 1: you know, how does this process of night hunting fit

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Speaker 1: into a modernizing country? Right? Because it sounds like this

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Speaker 1: is very old. As we see the prevalence of things

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Speaker 1: like cell phones I think would be the number one

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Speaker 1: the number one next step right, as we see the

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Speaker 1: proliferation of those in rural areas, how how is that

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Speaker 1: going to affect things? Like what happens when people start uh?

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Speaker 1: Because they get the sense I'm just I'm searching for

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Speaker 1: an analogy. I get the sense when I hear people

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Speaker 1: some of the guys talk about this, they're talking about it,

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Speaker 1: like me and my buddies went out to the bar,

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Speaker 1: We went out to the club, get a little night hunting,

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Speaker 1: like like can't your phone ahead? At this point? I

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Speaker 1: know and it would even happen in groups. Sometimes groups

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Speaker 1: of guys will go out and one at a time

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Speaker 1: break off and pick a house and pretty much just

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Speaker 1: like that isn't that? Is that not kind of terrified though,

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Speaker 1: Like That's what I'm trying to understand, Like, is this

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Speaker 1: is there a demographic like does this stop when you

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Speaker 1: get married if you're female identified or is it like

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Speaker 1: the purge basically you have to lock your based on

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Speaker 1: your genitalia? Do you have to lock yourself in at

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Speaker 1: the dusk? Yeah? I don't know the answer that directly,

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Speaker 1: but I would have My thoughts are that, you know,

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Speaker 1: it probably stops when you're getting married, at least if

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Speaker 1: you already have a man in your bed, you know,

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Speaker 1: like get as far as the wind's a crowd. But

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Speaker 1: at the same time, it feels like the practice does

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Speaker 1: open because of you know, if you lean into this

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Speaker 1: as like no, no, no, I'm just doing the thing,

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Speaker 1: you know, like it really is just kind of like

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Speaker 1: a carte blanche invitation to you know, stock people. Absolutely. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there was a girl who was in college in a

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Speaker 1: rural area and she had no idea that she said

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Speaker 1: she had heard of the practice but didn't really know

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Speaker 1: much about it or think that it was still happening.

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Speaker 1: And one night she's, you know, in her room with

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Speaker 1: her roommate and some guy comes up and starts banging

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Speaker 1: on the window and says, hey, let me in. No,

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Speaker 1: it's okay. This is a normal thing, and you know,

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Speaker 1: spent quite you know, it's also a normal thing for

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Speaker 1: me to say no, sir, get out, like that's part

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Speaker 1: of it, So get out like that. It's very based

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Speaker 1: on coercion, right, I think that's what the big problems

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Speaker 1: here too, is even if the guy gets in, then

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Speaker 1: he's got to talk himself into the bed um if

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Speaker 1: he doesn't force himself, you know. So even if there's

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Speaker 1: not a physical forcing, there's still a lot of coercion

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Speaker 1: going on. I'm wondering too, if there's like I'm not

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Speaker 1: aware of this, but if there's a situation where someone

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Speaker 1: travels from outside the country to maybe do some NGO

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Speaker 1: work or something, and then they find themselves accidentally sucked

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Speaker 1: into this practice, you know what I mean. I guess

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Speaker 1: it depends on how common it is in the modern day.

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Speaker 1: But now that you explain it this way, uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I can see a lot of very angry dads and moms,

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Speaker 1: you know. Uh so if you're caught, so it's vampire

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Speaker 1: rules kind of right, Like okay, so right, if you're

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Speaker 1: caught and if you're caught at dawn, that's you're married. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that doesn't always play, but that traditionally that's how it goes.

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Speaker 1: So that's very strict in some villages. So do you

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Speaker 1: feel like this is is them? Is this society normal?

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Speaker 1: Would we normally consider them pretty conservative? Um? I didn't

358
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Speaker 1: get that impression, but I think so. I think it

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Speaker 1: it seems more traditional in their um, you know, values

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Speaker 1: of marriage and family, um, things like that, pretty traditional.

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Speaker 1: It seems odd to me that in a matriarchal society

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Speaker 1: they would they would care so much about establishing paternity

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Speaker 1: for for citizenship or or for I guess not for

364
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Speaker 1: citizenship but for registering you and all that stuff. Like

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Speaker 1: I wonder what that is. I don't know. I just

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Speaker 1: was surprised by that. Yeah, because from what I'm understanding

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Speaker 1: as a matriarchal society, what we're saying there is that

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Speaker 1: women are traditionally the head of the family and also

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Speaker 1: call the shots, right, So if there are questions of

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Speaker 1: of a household import then it would typically be the

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Speaker 1: mom or the oldest female relative. I guess that makes

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Speaker 1: those decisions. So it may be it's a situation where

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Speaker 1: you need to be especially like, uh, you know, if

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Speaker 1: there are two kids who are like dating and trying

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Speaker 1: night hunting, they know each other already, maybe it's the

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Speaker 1: mom that they're really afraid of, right, could be, could be.

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Speaker 1: I mean I've definitely heard that the dad's were the

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Speaker 1: where they throw you out the window type. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: they're caught, but they're more than they're bouncer. You got

380
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Speaker 1: to get past the manager. I mean, that's the way

381
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 1: he came in. Might as well. This is super interesting,

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Speaker 1: um in bizarre so so it's it's it's it's definitely

383
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Speaker 1: fallen out of favor or it has this This is

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Speaker 1: sort of the uh you know. The remaining argument is

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Speaker 1: that uh, more rural and older people are saying, you know,

386
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Speaker 1: while the modern world of dating and western dating has

387
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Speaker 1: crept into Bhutan, especially in the cities, and that's you know,

388
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Speaker 1: taking the love out of it like that like we

389
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Speaker 1: used to have, you know, the good old days into yeah,

390
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Speaker 1: the romantic practice of crawling into my bed in the

391
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Speaker 1: middle of the night and it's become this, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of a mini cultural war because you've got again,

393
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Speaker 1: urban folks saying this is outrageous if they've even heard

394
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Speaker 1: of it. You're getting more and more young people who

395
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Speaker 1: you know, haven't we'll grow up their whole lives and

396
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,680
Speaker 1: never even heard of this practice. And more and more

397
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 1: the ones who have are saying, you know, this is

398
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Speaker 1: so primitive and dangerous and really calling out using it

399
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 1: as a way to call out rural areas and that

400
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 1: they're less cultured and less civilizing backwards. Yeah, and so

401
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 1: those areas are saying, no, you're you know, this is

402
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,239
Speaker 1: a perfectly safe practice. We love it. Yeah, there's some uh,

403
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 1: you know, a couple of little weak links in the chain,

404
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:51,400
Speaker 1: but uh, but they defend it and you know, say

405
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 1: that that's just an attack on their culture. Yeah. That's

406
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 1: the thing that's tough about culture. And and you know,

407
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,639
Speaker 1: these types of rituals that we're talking about, especially the

408
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 1: ones that are little, you know, more problematic. I mean,

409
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,680
Speaker 1: it's hard to criticize them, especially as an outsider, without

410
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:11,920
Speaker 1: coming off as just being some sort of like ignorant interloper,

411
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 1: even though like you know, in terms of just like

412
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Speaker 1: human rights and stuff. This does seem pretty pretty dangerous

413
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,439
Speaker 1: and problematic, especially when it's taken advantage of and kind

414
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,159
Speaker 1: of run rough shot over in terms of like the

415
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 1: maybe original intent, you know, which is why I think,

416
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 1: you know, we we uh hopefully those NGOs, those nonprofits

417
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 1: that are growing in Bhutan are are you know, working

418
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Speaker 1: to find that right balance. I know they signed the

419
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Speaker 1: Sea Daw, the Convention of Elimination of All Forms of

420
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: Discrimination against Women in nineteen eighty and that's sort of

421
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 1: what started to bring up that this. Um they said

422
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Speaker 1: bomina like customs were a form of gender discrimination. Um,

423
00:24:55,960 --> 00:25:00,359
Speaker 1: so that's uh, that's that's had some work done locally, right.

424
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: That was going to be one of my other questions.

425
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Speaker 1: So this, the reverse of this doesn't happen. There are

426
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 1: no young men who are sleeping and then someone bang

427
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 1: bangs into their house and it's like, okay, this high

428
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 1: I'm from earlier. I thought you were cute. Yeah, as

429
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 1: far as I know, I've never heard of that happening. Okay,

430
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 1: that's funny too for a matriarchal society that that's still

431
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 1: you're dependent on the man's interest in you and his

432
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 1: his interest, you know, his willingness to kind of come

433
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 1: come get you, you know what I mean. I don't

434
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,160
Speaker 1: know I would have I would assume that it matrioical

435
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: society will be like and you you're the come here. Well,

436
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 1: I guess there's there's certainly different shades of that, right,

437
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: I mean, like different extremes and flavors of what it

438
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: matriarical society even means. Like I mean, I know a

439
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 1: lot of very strong women in my life, you know,

440
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 1: for example, like my mother, who is also very very

441
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 1: old school, you know, like, oh, the man has to

442
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 1: come for the woman, and when when young ladies should

443
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: wear dresses like my kid kind of dresses like a

444
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 1: weird punk rock goth and my mom finds this very

445
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 1: off putting, and she's always trying to dress her up

446
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: and these little outfits as opposed to what I would

447
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 1: think would be looking at it as like, oh, it's

448
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: so cool that she's like letting her freak flag fly

449
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: and doing her thing and you know, owning her own image,

450
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: in her own you know, kind of sensitive self. But

451
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:25,680
Speaker 1: that's not really how it goes. And so I think

452
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 1: sometimes there are things that run counter to that because

453
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 1: of generational stuff I think, and especially when you started

454
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: getting into these uh you know, um cultures that are

455
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 1: have their own set of rules and taboos. And also,

456
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting. I was doing some doing just

457
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: a little bit of digging. I see that women traditionally

458
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:54,719
Speaker 1: we're able to practice polyandry and have more than one husband,

459
00:26:54,800 --> 00:27:00,040
Speaker 1: typically brothers in these rural areas. Um, they definitely. What

460
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: I'm saying is it sounds like night hunting exists in

461
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 1: a larger cultural context and the whole thing is starting

462
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: to starting to change. And that's that's gonna be a

463
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 1: lot to experience because I think I don't know if

464
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: it's still the case, but I think up until fairly recently,

465
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: people were required to where like legally required to wear

466
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 1: traditional dress in the country as well. Interesting yea. So

467
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: also I don't know how that affects. I mean, we're

468
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 1: we're joking about it, but they're breaking into people's houses. Yeah, yeah,

469
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 1: it's outrageous. And then the results are clear to you

470
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: have women, um who have been interviewed who say, I

471
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: won't even talk to men anymore. I've been abused many times.

472
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 1: This one women had uh man came in, um you know,

473
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 1: and they slept together. She got pregnant, they married, and

474
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: then as soon as her first child was born, he disappeared.

475
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: And then it happened to her again. A man came

476
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: in Bomina style, wooed her one night, and then he

477
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:03,959
Speaker 1: disappeared as soon as they found out she was pregnant.

478
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 1: And so she has two children and says, you know,

479
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: she was abused more than that, even uh you know,

480
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 1: at times when she wasn't even as you know it,

481
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: didn't agree to it. And she says, I don't even

482
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: talk to men anymore. And you're finding more and more

483
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 1: women like that too, who have been abused through this practice,

484
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, it's really affected them and their

485
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 1: whole lives, and it's affecting the culture of these towns

486
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 1: too well. Eli, thanks for bringing this one to probably

487
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: something that I wasn't aware of, and I think probably

488
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 1: that's gonna be the case for a lot of folks.

489
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 1: And like I said, interesting kind of kindred uh um

490
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 1: tradition to to the one I'm going to talk about

491
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 1: right after this word from our sponsor. Okay, and we're

492
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: back with the proactive coming back from an ad Max.

493
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: How do you like in this? Are you gonna make

494
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: us do this from now on. Oh, please do this

495
00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: stop breaking. It's a tradition, Thank you, tradition. Remember that

496
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: what is that filler on the roof? The traditions are

497
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: It's a big They're a big deal. I mean we

498
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 1: have plenty that, you know, folks from outside of America

499
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 1: would probably think her odd, like, you know, flying American

500
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: flag on for I don't know what, what's what's Um,

501
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: that's not a thing. Thank you, thank you. Let's let's

502
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: get to hurt. I'll hurt myself. Um. And today it

503
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 1: seems to have kind of accidentally been about, you know,

504
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: traditions that attempt to empower women. I would argue Eli

505
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: that yours is maybe a little bit misguided and doesn't

506
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 1: really succeed in doing that. And I'm not saying that

507
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: I'm like coming in and being like Mr Woke or whatever,

508
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 1: but this one that I'm bringing I kind of think

509
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: does succeed. And Marie Claire would agree, So we have

510
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: to do it a lot of No, it's true, but

511
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: what we're talking about today is something in Cambodia. UM.

512
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: I couldn't find a pronunciation. It's it's k R e

513
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 1: U n G. I think I'm gonna call it Krang

514
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: or Krong Krong Um, an ethnic minority group called the

515
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: Krong living in Cambodia have for generations, I've been practicing

516
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: this thing, uh called the love Hut. It's the little

517
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: old place where we can get together. Um. It really is.

518
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 1: What it is is an out a building built outside

519
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: of the home where young women are able to entertain

520
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: gentlemen call us on their own terms. There's also a

521
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: really good article on Vice about this practice by Ayisha

522
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 1: Down and Down Um actually goes to Cambodia where this

523
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: is still being practiced today. UM. And essentially, what it

524
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: does is it allows women, you know, adolescent women coming

525
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 1: into you know, adulthood, um, to kind of tryout partners,

526
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: you know, I mean date essentially, swing. I mean, it

527
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: really is it's about the sex. That's that's that's certainly

528
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: part of it. It's about it's about finding out whether

529
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: you and a potential mate are sexually and intellectually compatible. Um. Essentially,

530
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: you know, you have this little hut that's out behind

531
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 1: the main house, and it's like the young woman's room.

532
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: That's where she lives and she hangs out and she's

533
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: able to kind of make it her own and um

534
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: entertain boys, you know, quite quite a few before she

535
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: ultimately decides which one to marry. I don't want to

536
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: sound too old fashioned here, Noel, but what's the age

537
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: range we're talking about. Yeah, so that's a good question, Mann.

538
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: It is. It's a little it's a little odd. It's

539
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 1: about thirteen to fifteen. So, like I said, literally at

540
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: the beginning of of puberty. Um. And you know, as

541
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: a father of a twelve year old girl, this, you know,

542
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,959
Speaker 1: certainly that age rain strikes me a little odd. But again,

543
00:31:55,560 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 1: it does ultimately lead to this notion of sex as

544
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: not being some sort of tool of a patriarchy to

545
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: kind of you know, or like literally just a tool

546
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: for procreation. It's all about procreation. It's not vilified. I

547
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: think I'm sorry, thank you, Ben, I'm totally stammering to

548
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 1: to try to get that out. That's exactly right. It's normalized. Um.

549
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: The idea of sex um, the idea of partnership being

550
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: something that requires like compatibility in terms of like people's

551
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 1: ability to even have conversations. Um. And then Marie Claire

552
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 1: piece that I mentioned, Fiona McGregor actually goes and visits

553
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 1: the Krung tribe UH and hangs out with several young

554
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 1: women to talk about their their sex life and what

555
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: this hut is all about. And the quotes that you

556
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: hear from these women are just so self possessed, like

557
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: in terms of like they just own it, they own themselves,

558
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: and they don't really think of it as like unusual

559
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 1: at all because it's something that they that's been passed

560
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 1: down to them for generations. And Uh, it's just like

561
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: what you do. The father when the young woman begins

562
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: to reach puberty, builds this hut out back and then

563
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: she moves out there. So it's almost like it's giving

564
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: agency not only over like independence in terms of like

565
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: living outside of the home, but it really puts, you know,

566
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: the impetus of of all of these things directly on

567
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: the woman. And consequently, like there's like no rape in uh,

568
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: in this culture, in the crumb culture at all, like

569
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: like practically zero sexual violence, incredibly rare. Rape is apparently

570
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: non existent according to the Marie Clere story. UM. And

571
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: speaking to one of the elders, I suppose are one

572
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: of the parents of one of the women who Theona

573
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 1: McGregor interviews, UM, they say, we don't worry about female purity.

574
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: Who knows what a girl does when she goes to

575
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 1: another village anyway. I mean I love it. We're just

576
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,080
Speaker 1: so used to in in the United States, which we

577
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 1: consider ourselves to be so like you know, um, I

578
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: guess forward thinking and like you know, progressive in terms

579
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 1: of so many things. Uh, still so much weird puritanical

580
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: kind of like attitude towards sex. Here, it's sort of

581
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 1: either like the extreme kind of like flagrant you know,

582
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 1: just like over sex kind of attitude, like in terms

583
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,760
Speaker 1: of like what we see and and TV and film

584
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: and advertisement stuff. And then you have like this extreme

585
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: polar opposite, which is like a very kind of devout

586
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: notion of like women need to get married and like

587
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: get a husband and you know, be a housewife and

588
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: all that. I think there's still some of that attitude

589
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 1: has certainly changed and progressed over the years. But I

590
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: just think it's so interesting that these folks who are

591
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: literally living you know, in nature. I mean they really

592
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: are living in like their actual huts uh that they

593
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: live in are made of bamboo and they have to

594
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: rebuild them like every year or so, because like you know,

595
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: the weather can get insane there. So it really is

596
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 1: like the a living directly, you know, with nature, and

597
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 1: then they build these, uh, these other huts out back.

598
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,879
Speaker 1: So I don't know, you guys, I'd love to hear

599
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 1: your thoughts, um, Diana, especially like how does I mean,

600
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 1: you know, you being like a woman and all, how

601
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 1: does this strike you? I mean, I think it's really

602
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 1: fascinating and it's such an interesting, you know, thing to

603
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 1: read about. Especially we'll get to the kind of status

604
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: of it and you know, the future of it now,

605
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 1: but um, it is still kind of a thing. Yeah,

606
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: I think it's really interesting. It was funny that you

607
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: said puritanical, because you know, I did all those puritan

608
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 1: courtship things, and part of bundling was that you expected

609
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 1: to have some sexual contact, you just weren't meant to

610
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 1: get pregnant. And then and then the idea came around

611
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 1: that women were very pure and a sexual and didn't

612
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 1: have any sexual desire at all, Like that was the

613
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 1: the ideal woman. And that's when bundling kind of stopped happening. Um.

614
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: So it's just interesting to me that they're like, no,

615
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 1: women like sex. They like it and it's a part

616
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: of life and it's a part of marriage, and of

617
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: course you should of course you should try and some

618
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: pants and see what fits, you know what I mean,

619
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: like why not? So I just think that's really a

620
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: very enlightened way of thinking about I also like the

621
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: way that the the situation has been described. Whenever you

622
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 1: hear stories like this, if you're in the West, you

623
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: have to be very careful to corroborate sources and make

624
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: sure you're not getting some unfairly exoticized or as you

625
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 1: said earlier, Eli mothered kind of accounts. But even with that,

626
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 1: some of the articles I read, I really I like

627
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 1: the way they painted the scene. The guys aren't just

628
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: busting into these huts, to be clear, like they kick

629
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: it on the stoop, uh, and they and they play

630
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: some music, you know, and you know they do like

631
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 1: their their wonder wall or whatever they're For some reason

632
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 1: in my head, you know, I don't know what pop

633
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 1: music is popular there now, but I wanted to be

634
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 1: something like really cific. It would be hilarious if it

635
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 1: was Smash Melts All Star and it was like just

636
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 1: a very slow acoustic version, and then you know, it's

637
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, we could all use a little change

638
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: so the uh, the thing is apparently if um, like

639
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 1: you said, no, the consent is key. So if the um,

640
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,879
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say child, if they're thirteen, if the child

641
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: is not interested, then uh they they just politely talked

642
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 1: for a little while and then the boy moves on.

643
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: So there's no like, there's no entrance into this thing

644
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: without the consent of the of the person living in

645
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: the maiden hunt, which I think is great. Well, I

646
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 1: like the way you describe that, Ben, It's it's it

647
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 1: reminds me of all you're saying that it goes kind

648
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 1: of back to nature, and you know, it's sort of

649
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 1: feels like these more um uh animal like rituals of

650
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:53,879
Speaker 1: of having to woo the male has to come over

651
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 1: and show his fancy feathers in order to get the

652
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,919
Speaker 1: female interested, and that that's I kind of like that idea. Yeah,

653
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: me too, where's my fancy feathers. It also just kind

654
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 1: of goes to show how so many of these ideas

655
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 1: are like constructs of that we kind of build for ourselves.

656
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 1: Um And unfortunately even the Krung people are not completely

657
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 1: oblivious to that, are completely not you know, affected by

658
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: these things because these practices have kind of started to

659
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 1: wane a little bit. And that's largely because so Okay,

660
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 1: a big part of it was the functionality of it.

661
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,919
Speaker 1: Very much like your story, Diana, where the Puritans lived

662
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 1: in these tiny, you know, single common area homes. Uh.

663
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: That's the same with the Krung people. Um, they have these,

664
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 1: like I said, very rudimentary kind of bamboo huts. So

665
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: it was like kind of like it made sense that

666
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 1: when you know, a girl reached a certain age to

667
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 1: move her out because they wanted the space. And also

668
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 1: they didn't they didn't have a wooing tube or whatever

669
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 1: it's called. Um, and they bundling wasn't exactly a thing.

670
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,800
Speaker 1: But this is not that different. I mean, you're like,

671
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting that it was sort of the

672
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:10,919
Speaker 1: leadership of the church that walked back bundling and sort

673
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 1: of took that agency away from from women that was

674
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: already there. Uh. And what's happening here is, as you know,

675
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: technology kind of reaches these areas. Again, this article was

676
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 1: from two thousand eleven. A lot of lots happened since

677
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: then in terms of just like the exponential availability of

678
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: technology and just like you know, the affordability as well,

679
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 1: and even like you know, things like access to the internet,

680
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 1: like even in like it's really really remote areas. So

681
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 1: what's happening is there's also more wealth kind of pouring

682
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,800
Speaker 1: into some of these more you know areas which different

683
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: different building materials. So instead of using bamboo and these

684
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 1: kind of temporary structures and having this reason to kind

685
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 1: of keep this tradition going, now they're building their homes

686
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 1: out of brick and concrete and such, and they want

687
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,879
Speaker 1: all of their rooms to be contained within the one house,

688
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: so it doesn't make sense to build it, and then

689
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: the tradition of it all kind of falls apart at

690
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 1: that point, right, and it just seems like this is

691
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 1: something that is maybe going to disappear. And that's actually

692
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: what the article on advice is about. It's called the

693
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 1: Struggle to save teen Love Huts. In Cambodia, they're also

694
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 1: referred to as maiden huts. But the thing is, all

695
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: of the stories that I've read about the relationships that

696
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,919
Speaker 1: these led to they last lifetime. I mean, like there's

697
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 1: like very little divorced as well, and like, you know,

698
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 1: because you have a chance to actually get to know

699
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 1: your partner both sexually and uh, you know, in terms

700
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 1: of like, hey, I like to hang out with you

701
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,760
Speaker 1: because you're you know, we actually have things in common.

702
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 1: And honestly, it's the conversation that sort of starts the

703
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 1: whole thing. And if a woman has decides like, oh,

704
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 1: this dude's dull, like she can just kick him right

705
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 1: on out. Or sometimes they'll just snuggle and sleep in

706
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: the same room, but there won't be maybe you know,

707
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 1: maybe some some hand stuff all of the Puritans, but

708
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 1: that's it, and then there's no hard feelings, right, and

709
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 1: there's no concept of jealousy there. Again, like we said,

710
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 1: sexual violence and rape are very very very very rare,

711
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 1: but just the idea of jealousy is like not a thing.

712
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 1: You kind of just accept it and move on. And

713
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 1: it's all because of what the woman wants. And I

714
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 1: don't know, I think it's great. One thing that that

715
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 1: feels important to mention here is that this is this

716
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 1: is a practice in the Highlands, right. This is a

717
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 1: specific community of specific people. So it's not Cambodia overall. No, No,

718
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 1: it's specifically in an area or a village called crow

719
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 1: law Um in an area called retan Akiri in Cambodia.

720
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 1: It's like I said very much. You know, in a

721
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 1: deep wooded kind of areas, and Cambodia itself, we know

722
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 1: is incredibly conservative when it comes to ideas of things

723
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,839
Speaker 1: like divorce. I think, uh, I think they're divorce rate

724
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 1: was like back there's an old stap but back in

725
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 1: the late nineties, their divorce rate was two point four percent,

726
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 1: at least their official would because it would be a

727
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:13,360
Speaker 1: costly processed So I'm saying that if the if the

728
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 1: culture is like the culture and the rest of Cambodia,

729
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: divorce is supposed to be an extremely shameful affair. So

730
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 1: just to point out, it may be possible that there

731
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,879
Speaker 1: are people stuck in unhappy marriages, but to be fair,

732
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 1: that happens in the United States, where divorce is much easier.

733
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 1: So I was about to ask if you knew if

734
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 1: they did kind of what we did when we couldn't divorce,

735
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 1: which was the guy would kind of go off and

736
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 1: do whatever and the lady would like have like a

737
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 1: guy just hang out with her, Like no, when I'm married.

738
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 1: When I'm married, we just lived together for years. Yeah,

739
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 1: Like I wonder if they have anything like that. Yes,

740
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:54,879
Speaker 1: we just have a kid together. But it's no big deal,

741
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, No, I don't know specifically how they

742
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 1: handle divorce, sure that how they handle you know, separation

743
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 1: like that. But um, it is it is kind of

744
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,799
Speaker 1: sad that these maiden huts or love huts really are

745
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: much much, much more rare these days. Um. There certainly

746
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 1: are pockets where it still goes on, um, but it

747
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:19,360
Speaker 1: is just becoming increasingly more unusual. Uh. And it's the

748
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 1: Vice article actually interviews a chawby um who was fifteen

749
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,319
Speaker 1: in the early sixties, so that's when this was kind

750
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 1: of maybe at its peak. And that's she describes kind

751
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 1: of her experience back when she was young and how

752
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 1: different things are now. So um, really really interesting. Sounds

753
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 1: like the the it's the original she shed. It gives

754
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 1: me two questions, I guess, Um, One, are these girls

755
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 1: permitted to Is this a voluntary thing? If girls are

756
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:52,879
Speaker 1: just like I don't want I don't want to love shack,

757
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,320
Speaker 1: I don't want to build one, is that something? And

758
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 1: then also it seems, uh, you know it's very heterosexually

759
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 1: dre even sure. I don't know if that ever comes up. Yeah, no,

760
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,800
Speaker 1: nothing that I've seen, but I wouldn't be surprised me.

761
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 1: I don't want to uh, you know, conjecture, but I

762
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:12,800
Speaker 1: wouldn't be surprised given the kind of progressive nature of

763
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,919
Speaker 1: this whole practice, if even things like um, same sex,

764
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 1: you know, relationships were a little more uh, a little

765
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:22,840
Speaker 1: less frowned upon. But again I haven't really seen anything

766
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 1: about that specifically. But as far as like, you know,

767
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:29,399
Speaker 1: are they forced to do this, I honestly think it's

768
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 1: just always kind of looked at as a privilege, and

769
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 1: it is. It was so ingrained kind of in the culture,

770
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 1: and it gives you so much control, and you know,

771
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 1: it is it is ultimately about getting married. Like I mean,

772
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 1: I think you're you're right, you know, I get what

773
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: you're saying. You like, like, what if I don't want

774
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 1: to get married, or what if I just want to

775
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 1: be single and that's nothing that's important to me. I

776
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 1: think that part of it is a little arm twisty, right,

777
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 1: Like I mean, so there is still some you know,

778
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 1: forcing young women to fit into a certain mold, but

779
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,800
Speaker 1: at least it's on their own terms. I'm seeing the

780
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 1: Disney Pixar princess who doesn't want to you know, it

781
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 1: goes on a journey instead or does it want to leave?

782
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 1: I think you can stay at twenty About to ask

783
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: did they get married really early? Because I know you

784
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 1: said it was like twelve to fifteen. Is that when

785
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 1: they start? Yeah, it's it's unclear as if there's like

786
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 1: a clock on it, you know what I mean. But

787
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:25,880
Speaker 1: it's as far as like how long do you have

788
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 1: to to make your decision? Like are people like really

789
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:30,280
Speaker 1: breathing down your neck about it? Your you know, your parents.

790
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 1: I kind of get the sense that they are to

791
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 1: a degree um. But again today, according to this Vice article,

792
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 1: women are young girls rather are often married by the

793
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 1: time they're twelve. It does it was a bit of

794
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 1: a late bloomer. So I feel like, if you know,

795
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,240
Speaker 1: I don't, I wasn't really interested in boys there anything

796
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 1: like that until I was until I was at least sixteen,

797
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:54,320
Speaker 1: and you know, I didn't really care about that. So

798
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: I was like, I would be like, damn, I missed

799
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 1: my chance for my love. Hut, I just got a

800
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:04,399
Speaker 1: big one. The chob I mentioned earlier said that people

801
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 1: would stay in there up until they were twenty five,

802
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 1: So it seems like it goes um. While the beginning

803
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 1: may hinge on you know, signs of puberty or something

804
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 1: like that. It looks like the maiden in the maiden

805
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 1: Hut has a lot of latitude and agency to decide

806
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:24,319
Speaker 1: when they're done or when they find their partner. But again,

807
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 1: there are a lot of you know, in these communities,

808
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 1: there may be a lot of other pressures that were

809
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 1: not aware of that might push someone into a marriage

810
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 1: of some sort. Well, and what about birth control or

811
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 1: there are a lot of teen pregnancies some Yeah, no,

812
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 1: it's it's definitely a thing. There are unplanned pregnancies. But

813
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 1: you know, again talking reading interviews with some of these

814
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 1: these young women, they understand safe sex and they practice it.

815
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 1: If there ever is an unplanned pregnancy, um, it is

816
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,320
Speaker 1: you know, a situation where the man has to provide

817
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: for that child. Um So, so even if they don't

818
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 1: get married, he still has responsibility for that's very much. So.

819
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 1: I don't think it instantly means they have to get

820
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 1: married either. According to the Marie Claar article, typically if

821
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 1: this happens, they will get married. But at the end

822
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: of the day, if if the girl does not choose him,

823
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 1: the man still has to you know, provide for the

824
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 1: child and raise the child as his own. All right,

825
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 1: So there you haven't um two very different but kind

826
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 1: of weirdly spiritually entwined kind of stories of courtship. Yeah.

827
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,240
Speaker 1: I like that we went around the world in this series.

828
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 1: And and there's something else that happened we mentioned in

829
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 1: part one. I think I had noted that we're barely

830
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 1: scratching the surface because we found so many other odd things, right,

831
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 1: and and of course we have to be aware of

832
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 1: cultural bias. The United States is full of very strange

833
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,440
Speaker 1: courtship rituals. His future historians are going to look back like,

834
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:06,839
Speaker 1: what the hell were they doing? You know? And uh,

835
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 1: And so I personally can't wait to hear more people's

836
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 1: stories of unique courtship customs. But I also can't wait

837
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 1: to hear more ridiculous romance. Diana Eli, thank you both

838
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 1: so much for joining us for part two. Can you

839
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 1: give us a give the ridiculous historians a little bit

840
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 1: of a spoiler for some episodes you guys are working on.

841
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,279
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we got a great this whole week coming up.

842
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:38,280
Speaker 1: Now we're gonna be looking at two very powerful couples

843
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 1: who uh the women of which wives of rulers who

844
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 1: had an incredible influence on on those rules. So we're

845
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 1: talking about Winston Clementine Churchill, uh, and it particularly Clementine's

846
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 1: influence on World War Two, which is really only uncovered

847
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 1: in the last few years, and it's outrageous. We would

848
00:48:57,719 --> 00:48:59,359
Speaker 1: we would all be speaking German today if it weren't

849
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 1: for Clementine church show quickly absolutely, yeah. Yeah. And then

850
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 1: we also went to ancient Egypt in BC times to

851
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: hear about a Menotep the third and his powerful queen

852
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:13,919
Speaker 1: Tier and she was It's a lot a lot harder

853
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 1: to find out what exactly, you know, specifically was going

854
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: on in the day to day of ancient Egypt, but

855
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:23,320
Speaker 1: it's very clear that she definitely had a lot of

856
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 1: influence in foreign relations and stuff during that time. So

857
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 1: so she's also the reason this podcast is in German, thankfully,

858
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 1: thanks for Queen Tia keeping us all from speaking Germany.

859
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 1: Number that she was very worried about it. We do

860
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 1: get sucked into a lot of butterfly effect conversations sometimes

861
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 1: thinking about if these two hadn't met in you know,

862
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:52,360
Speaker 1: what would be different now? We wouldn't we wouldn't have

863
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 1: ending machines or something. Yeah, it would be it would

864
00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: be something very I love those conversations because the further

865
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 1: back in time you go, the smaller and stranger and

866
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 1: more specific the thing can become. You know, definitely like

867
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 1: crocks if you think about it, jengis cot just think

868
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 1: about adults, say no yet think it through. Uh. This

869
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 1: has been such a blast. Uh. I cannot wait to

870
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 1: hear those episodes of Ridiculous Romance. Uh they do come

871
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 1: out twice a week. And uh no, I thought we did.

872
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:31,840
Speaker 1: I thought we did all right on this one. What

873
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:33,840
Speaker 1: do you think, man? I think we did. And we

874
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:37,279
Speaker 1: had two solid episodes out of it too, and like

875
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:39,319
Speaker 1: you said, been kind of a tour around the world.

876
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:43,320
Speaker 1: We gotta do this again, you guys super fun. I

877
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:46,719
Speaker 1: certainly learned a lot and I will definitely sound a

878
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 1: little smarter at the next party I go to, which

879
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 1: I think we're all we're gonna be going to together.

880
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 1: I think we're all going to a podcast conference thing

881
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:57,320
Speaker 1: in Nashville. The whole Ridiculous crew really excited about that,

882
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 1: very excited. They can't wait. And we helped have you

883
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 1: guys on our show soon too. Yeah, so anytime. Well,

884
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 1: thanks again to Eli and Diana from Ridiculous Romance. You

885
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 1: can find that show everywhere you get your favorite podcast.

886
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 1: Huge thanks to super producers Casey Begraham, suproducer Max Williams,

887
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 1: Alex Williams who composed our theme. Big big thanks to

888
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:23,719
Speaker 1: Christopher Hassi ootis to our research associate Gabe Louisier, and

889
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 1: two of course we do. We will say his name

890
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 1: this time because we haven't met our beetlejuice rule yet,

891
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:33,440
Speaker 1: But thanks to Jonathan Strickland's a k. The Quister, I

892
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 1: imagine that he has a few weird courtship rituals of

893
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:41,880
Speaker 1: his own, as stories as anecdotes. I'm not accusing the

894
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:52,319
Speaker 1: guy anything. We'll see you next time, folks. For more

895
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:54,839
Speaker 1: podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app,

896
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.