WEBVTT - Hayley Kiyoko: Lesbian Jesus 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:08.119 Welcome back to she Pivots. I'm Hailey Kiyoko. 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:16.880 Welcome back to she Pivots, the podcast where women share 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:21.640 bold career moves and personal turning points that changed everything. 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:30.319 I'm your host to Emily Tish Sussman. We have a 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:34.559 very special guest for today's episode. In honor of Pride, 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:37.600 we have the pop icon who has affectionately been dubbed 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:42.160 lesbian Jesus. Hailey Kyoko started her career as a kid 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:45.760 actor in commercials, playing drums before her feet really reached 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:49.159 the pedals. She went on to play Velma and Scooby 0:00:49.200 --> 0:00:52.080 Doo and start in the Disney hit Lemonade Mouth. She 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:55.400 moved into singing, joining a girl group when solo, and 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:58.520 then became a pop star who rocketed to stardom when 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:02.760 her twenty eighteen song girls Like Girls became a queer anthem. 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:06.440 She's written two New York Times best selling novels, and 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:10.680 this month she made her feature film directorial debut. But 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:14.240 every one of those pivots traces back to one quiet, 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:18.240 complicated thing she's been carrying from the beginning. She knew 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:21.520 she was gay, and she looked around and didn't see 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:25.840 anyone who looked like her half Japanese queered both at once. 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:29.360 So she made the thing she never got to see 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:32.920 to help someone else feel seen in their own lonely moments. 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:35.679 We get into what it feels like to become a 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:40.080 community's icon practically overnight while you're still figuring yourself out. 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:43.720 She tells me about the high school heartbreak that twenty 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:46.920 years later turned into a feature film, and she tells 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:50.440 me about finding her fiance, Becka Tilly, who you may 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:54.080 have seen on The Bachelor. This is Hailey Kiyoko, and 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:59.960 this is how she pivots what is your name in 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:00.560 What Do You Do? 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:05.360 I'm Haley Kyoko and I'm a writer, musician and director. 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:07.840 Excellent. Okay, so now we're going to go back. 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:10.360 So you've been a performer since you were a little kids, 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:13.680 Like you were in commercials and drums and acting and music. 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:15.640 Was there ever a version of your life where you 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:19.560 weren't in the entertainment industry? Or you're always like this, 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:21.280 this is it. I'm going to be a performer of 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:21.880 so variety. 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:26.400 Yeah, it's always been that for me, Like I was 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:30.600 the kid doing dances with my friends in the living 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:35.440 room for my parents, my parents' friends, and writing songs 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:38.320 on the piano from a very young age. 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:40.960 So performing was always a thing for me. 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:42.840 Did you know where it was going to go? Or 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:44.680 you were like, this is my stage, and I think 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:45.480 about nothing else. 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:48.800 I didn't know where I was going to go. 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:52.200 I think initially, if we're going way way back, my 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:55.480 first dream was to be in the Blue Man group perfect. 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:57.639 I just really identified with. 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:01.360 The Blue Man and the drumming and the percussion and 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:02.080 the stage. 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:05.519 And then my second dream was Stomp the musical. 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:09.040 Oh Loved So I think very early on my dreams 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:12.800 were percussive forward, Like I started playing drums when I 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:15.800 was five and I was tap dancing, and so I 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:18.320 just I knew I wanted to do something with rhythm, 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:24.520 and then the dream progressed into singing and sync no 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:28.200 strings attached. At what was the Staples Center which is 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:31.720 now the Crypto Arena, I remember seeing them dancing and 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:34.480 they had like fake money falling from the sky and 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:38.400 the girls were screaming, and I was like, oh my. 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:41.320 Gosh, I think I would like ten or something. 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:43.800 And I was like, this is what I want to 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:46.800 do and this is who I want to be, And 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:51.480 I think that began this very long journey in music 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:52.720 in general. 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:55.600 Did you like specifically want to be them? 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:59.120 Yeah, well I was also I was very gay, and 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:01.640 so I like I wanted to be them, so like 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:04.600 I wanted to be on that stage singing and dancing 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:07.440 and having the girls screaming and being like this cool 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:10.240 person that people liked, I like admired that. 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:13.160 Did you try to put on their actual shows? Like 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:15.160 you were like, these are my stuff's animals lined up? 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:17.560 Well, yeah, no, I didn't have stuffed animals. I was 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:20.560 like I had human beings. We were doing like, hey, 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:23.520 come over Thursday night. We're doing dance performance in the 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:27.080 living room. And it's so funny because obviously now that 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:29.400 I'm a director, I look back at those moments and 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:31.760 I was like I was directing, I was like, this 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:33.359 is the show, this is how it's going to go, 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:35.280 this is the vision. You know, we're going to do 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:40.120 a five six, seven eight, we're step change here. So 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:43.200 I think that just was part of my personality and 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:46.400 there was never a world where I was going to 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:47.520 be doing anything else. 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:51.159 Yeah, okay, but you were also very entrepreneurial, Like you 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:53.919 started selling drum charts to music stores. 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:55.200 That's factual. 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:59.320 I was really obsessed with business, so I would unfortunately 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:02.760 use all my dad's printing ink, and before I even 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:06.920 had a business, I printed out business cards. Before I 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:11.240 even had a band, I printed my band cards and 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:12.960 I put up flyers around the. 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:14.560 Park join my band. 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:18.960 No one called the home line unfortunately, so the band 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:22.600 thing went out the window. But yeah, I was like 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:26.599 doing drum charts and selling it to local like music stores, 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:30.200 to like complicated by Avril Levine, I think I did 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:33.839 swing swing by all American rejects. So I think very 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:36.960 early on I've been somewhat. 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:37.240 Of a hustler. 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:38.880 Yeah, yeah, very much. 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:41.400 So I didn't have a product, but I was. 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:45.279 But you had a business card. You're like, uh, I'm ready, 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:46.200 I'm ready to be called. 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:49.360 So you started a garage band at sixteen that was 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:52.960 named after your grandfather. Yes, So what did makeing music 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:55.560 with your own band feel like? At that point? When 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:57.520 you tried the band didn't work, and then you'd already 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:00.440 started doing like commercial and acting work, so. 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:02.120 People didn't join my band. 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:04.679 And then in high school I ended up becoming friends 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:07.960 with these guys and I basically forced them to learn 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:11.240 an instrument and become my band and we named it 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:14.120 after my grandpa, Ahiti, and we won Battle of the Bands, 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:17.320 and that was like the real beginning of having just 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:20.200 kind of like this band feeling and vibe. I kind 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:23.599 of wrote more like cold Play esque type music back then. 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:27.800 While that was happening, I was trying to figure out 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:32.080 how to get into the music industry, and acting kind 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:36.800 of became this opportunity where I got to wait for 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:41.479 hours and hours that these calls for these commercials, but 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:45.120 these commercials would need like a musician, so I'd basically 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:48.080 go an audition. One of my first jobs, I booked 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:50.919 a Kmart commercial and I was playing the bass. And 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:54.120 then I booked a Cinnamonto's Crunch commercial and I was 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:57.440 playing the guitar. And so I got to like pretend 0:06:57.560 --> 0:07:00.120 to be a rock star and pretend to be a 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:03.880 musician through the lens of being an actor, and so that. 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:05.039 Kind of helps me. 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:07.720 I mean it's always like, how do you even how 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:09.680 does one even get on the TV screen? 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:13.400 How does one even do this? I was a musical theater, 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:15.120 I had the band. 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:17.880 I was going to these auditions and just trying to 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:20.080 find a way, you know, back in the day around 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:22.280 that age, I'd have my dad drive me to the 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:24.600 Pig and Whistle in Hollywood Boulevard and I would do 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:27.000 open mic speed. You have to like pay or you 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:28.960 have to like be like we're gonna have fifty people 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:30.800 show up to It was like a pay for play 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:33.440 kind of thing. We didn't have TikTok at that time 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:36.280 to be able to access people, and so you're just 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:39.080 literally on the streets passing out flyers. Right. 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:40.400 There were gatekeepers. 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:42.280 Yeah, that has been I think one of the things 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:45.840 it's so amazing, especially for artists, about the democratization of 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:50.760 social media. It's also democratized access access to audiences, whereas 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:52.880 before you probably had to try to conform in some 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:55.360 way because there were gatekeepers like to what they wanted. 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:58.080 Absolutely, I mean still to this day. 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:03.200 The hustle was always there for Haley. So when Vitamin 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:06.000 C came calling with a spot in an all girl group, 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:10.240 she said yes and got her first real look inside 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:14.880 the machine. So you were approached by Vitamin C to 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:17.520 join the Stunners when you were still in high school. 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:22.040 I again was trying to get into the music industry auditions, 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:24.480 and then I did that for like a year or 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:26.720 two and I learned a lot. It was It was 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:29.240 a great experience. I got to learn what I like, 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:32.760 I got to learn what I don't like. Definitely got 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:35.560 to experience a little bit more of like the record 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:38.360 label industry through that lens. 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:41.320 Say more about that, Like what about the record label industry? 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:43.520 It's really something I know almost nothing about. You know 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:46.200 a lot of things, that's not one of them. 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:47.360 You know, I was young. 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:51.520 I think I was like nineteen eighteen or nine, I 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:54.080 don't know, maybe I started at seventeen around that age, 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:57.360 and so you know, you got these four or five 0:08:57.440 --> 0:09:01.520 girls performing these songs dressed up up for the male gaze. 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:05.920 It was not necessarily something that I wanted to pursue. 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:09.200 And I also was in the closet, so I had 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:12.080 a really hard time navigating, Oh, I'm supposed to be 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:14.640 like performing for the male gaze, but like I'm a 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:17.880 lesbian and I don't want to do that. So there 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:21.599 were a lot of moments that I felt really uncomfortable. Granted, 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:24.720 my hair was in a pixie cut with a bleach streak, 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:27.760 so the closet was glass. It was hard for me 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:30.760 to navigate, but I learned how to perform in heels. 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:31.720 So that was cool. 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:35.040 I'm guessing you would actually started younger if I'm guessing 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:37.280 you yeah, and your performances. 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:39.199 You'd been practicing for that one for a long time. 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:43.800 I like sneakers now more so. 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:45.120 What do you feel like you got out of that 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:47.040 that prepared you for the next thing? 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:50.520 I think I learned that the music industry is really 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:53.120 tough and it's really hard to get into. I think 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:57.040 it prepared me to really challenge myself to figure out 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:01.160 what sound I wanted, who I was as an artist, 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:04.920 And so when that ended, I finally was able to 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:07.800 pursue my solo career, Like what does that look like? 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:10.600 Am I singing covers? Am I writing original music? Am 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:12.439 I on the guitar? Is there no guitar? 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:14.160 Is it track? Is it rock? 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:17.560 And so that began the exploration of who am I 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:21.400 beyond just singing on the guitar in my bedroom, pining 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:24.440 and yearning after girls, which was so much of my 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:26.400 identity and music before. 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:29.120 You know, and then when you record music, the possibilities 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:29.640 are endless. 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:32.840 The horizon looks different and you're like, Okay, what do 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:36.479 I look like when I'm actually physically recording music or sound. 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:39.760 Like and you have this acting career going in parallel, right, 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:42.360 so like at the same time was about like Scooby Doo. 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:45.640 I was one of the first Asian Velma's thank you 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:46.120 so much. 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:48.560 Yes, okay, So you said that you almost did an 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:51.120 audition for it because of your concerns about image. 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:52.040 To like, talk me through that. 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:55.160 I mean, it's sad like to think that I grew 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:57.719 up in a society and so many other people do 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:02.080 where I almost stopped myself from auditioning for Velma because 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:06.720 I was part Asian is really sad, and then had 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:08.920 I not gone out for it, I would have never 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:09.520 gotten it. 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:10.920 And I went out for it and I. 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:11.560 Booked the role. 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:17.359 So it's interesting how much we as people hold ourselves 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:22.760 back due to the narrative that society is feeding us. 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:27.120 I grew up during a time where Asian people played 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:30.040 the sidekick in the best front, so it was really 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:32.520 hard for me to believe that I could have main 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:35.439 character energy, so to speak, because I never got to 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:38.280 see that. But you know, it's seeing as believing. So 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:41.720 when you don't see people who look like you or 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:46.000 feel the way you feel successfully in the mainstream as 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:48.440 the main character that's what you believe. 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:50.320 Oh, I'm not the main character. 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:52.640 Do you remember the first time you saw a character 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:55.040 that really resonated with you and made you see beyond 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:56.400 the possibility you had before. 0:11:56.960 --> 0:12:00.760 I think it was Alice Woo's movie that half of it. 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:04.040 I think it was on Netflix. This was years. This 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:06.480 is like I'm in my twenties. I think when this 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:09.640 came out and Leah Lewis was the lead, and I 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:12.600 remember going, oh my gosh, she got to be the lead, 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:15.520 like I've never seen that before. I'll never forget that. 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:19.040 It was a really cool, cool moment to be like, oh, 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:22.160 you know what it is. It's someone said yes to this, 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:23.640 and that's really powerful. 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:26.320 Yeah. Have you ever gotten to meet her and tell her? 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:27.600 I actually did. 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:30.200 She came to one of my dinners for Girls Like Girls. 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:33.920 She is so wonderful and kind and talented. It's been 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:37.480 really cool because that was her Girls Like Girls, her moment. 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:40.040 And then now I have these two up and coming 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:42.240 young actors in my film. 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:45.520 Who were both half Asian, and this is their moment. 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:48.080 You know, my lead she was eighteen when we shot this, 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:50.160 and I'm pretty sure Leo was, you know, around that 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:52.720 age when she did hers too, so it's pretty wild. 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:58.240 The Stunners didn't last and the same year the group split, 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:02.000 Hailey lost her grandfather, the man she'd named her very 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:05.480 first band after. What came out of that time was 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:09.320 a song that would quietly change everything. We'll get there 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:27.640 right after the break. I think this is probably around 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:29.960 the same time. But your grandfather, who had been so 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:33.120 important that you named your band after him, passed away 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:35.880 in twenty eleven, which was the same year that Stunner's split. 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:38.840 I think that was just life happening. 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:42.720 I remember being really busy at that time, and I 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:46.840 flew up to Colonna, Canada, which is where my grandpa lived, 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:49.080 and I did a solo trip and I got to 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:51.440 hang out with him and my grandma and get to 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:54.200 spend time with him before he passed. That was a 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:57.640 really special trip, which once we talk about the movie, 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:01.480 you'll realize why it's become such a full circle thing. 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:03.440 Oh, I'm so excited. 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:07.000 So your early solo music videos, they were directed by you, 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:10.560 and they centered on crewman stories. At the time, did 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:13.320 it feel like were you intentionally going in to take 0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:14.800 a risk or you were just saying, like, this is 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:16.040 the only way I know how to do this. 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:19.560 I mean, it's my life being in love with women 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:24.960 navigating that I can't really remove that from myself. I 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:29.440 didn't enter the industry thinking I was going to focus 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:33.440 on my truth. To be honest, that was not an 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:37.120 intentional thing. And then when I wrote Girls Like Girls 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:40.400 in twenty I think fourteen and we released in twenty fifteen, 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:43.360 that was the first time I was really open with 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:47.440 myself with another writer to be like, hey, I remember 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:49.960 she asked me like, what are you most afraid about 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:51.000 to write about? 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:53.160 And I was like crying, and I was. 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:56.160 Like, I'm well, lesbian, I like girls, but I never 0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:56.960 write about it. 0:14:57.320 --> 0:14:59.120 She was like, why don't we write about it today? 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:01.880 And I was like, that sounds so scary. That was 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:03.760 the inception of Girls Like Girls. 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:07.200 That is hitting something that's so real for so many people. 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:10.480 Is that some people's response like they like to be disruptive, 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:14.160 and some people just want to be and aren't drawn 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:15.560 towards it. And it sounds like you kind of went 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:18.000 through the evolution of all of those feelings and identities. 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:23.880 Yeah, I think my authentic truth naturally was disruptive. Like 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:27.280 when I finished the song and we did the music video. 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:29.480 I was like, I really want to watch a video 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:31.560 where you see two girls falling in love and they 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:34.160 end up together, And like, I didn't really have a 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:37.160 lot of access to that kind of representation. And I'm 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:40.000 sure it was out there, but it wasn't easily accessible. 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:43.720 And it really kind of threw me when I released 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:47.000 the music video because I really didn't think people were 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:50.440 going to watch it. Like I had nine thousand subscribers 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:54.680 on YouTube, nobody knew who I was. Nobody wanted to 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:58.880 premiere the music video. Everyone said it was risky or 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:03.560 too Niche sure to this and to that, and then 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:07.600 it found its community. It found millions and millions of 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:10.800 people who felt the way I felt. I grew up 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:14.680 in Los Angeles, which is a very liberal community and area, 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:17.280 but I still had such a hard time finding my 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:20.560 community and finding my people growing up in a predominantly 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:24.080 white community, never being Asian enough, never being white enough. 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:27.080 I didn't really have any queer friends, and if I did, 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:29.960 I didn't know about it. And so this music video 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:33.520 became kind of this message in a bottle to find 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:38.520 this community of people across the globe that felt seen. 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:41.160 That was not an intentional thing. 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:45.320 My intentionality was to try to be honest and come out. 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:48.880 Do you remember as it started to gain in popularity, 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:50.520 like as I started to blow up, was there a 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:52.920 moment or a couple of moments they were like, oh, oh. 0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:53.520 This is huge. 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:57.600 Kept waiting for it to die down, like we're talking 0:16:57.600 --> 0:16:59.360 to hit five hundred thousand views that I was like, 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:01.960 I'm going to be your I was like, oh my god, 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:05.040 you know, like that's just for a perspective. And then 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:07.200 I hit one million views. Then I hit two and 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:08.719 then I was like, oh my gosh, maybe we'll hit 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:11.480 three million, maybe we'll hit four million. Every week it 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:13.040 would just go up a million million, and I just 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:15.960 kept checking it. I kept waiting for it to almost 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:19.520 like die, and it never did. It's literally one of 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:23.000 those cheesy scenes that I probably acted out a million 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:27.200 times in other movies and stuff. That is what was happening. 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:30.800 And I was like, oh my gosh, this is going viral. 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:34.240 It's weird to think of myself at that moment and 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:35.600 to think about where I'm at now. 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:37.480 It's been a really long journey. 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:40.919 At that time, I wasn't confident enough to put myself 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:43.879 in the music video because that was even more vulnerable. 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:47.680 I had never written a song about a girl, and 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:49.360 now I've directed eleven. 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:50.600 Music videos about girls. 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:54.600 I have multiple albums about women, and now I've directed 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:57.479 a feature film that's going to be in theaters about 0:17:57.480 --> 0:17:59.400 this time in my life that I. 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:02.480 Was so scared to share with the world. 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:06.119 And now I'm so confident and proud to share that 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:06.919 with the world. 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:10.359 The thing that you were most nervous about, as you 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:12.359 said to the songwriter that you were working with, like 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:14.520 the thing is now actually the thing that you're most 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:16.479 proud of. It sounds like like at first it had 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:18.159 defined you in being scared, and like now it's to 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:19.600 find you in a really positive way. 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:22.359 Yeah, I was leading with fear, and now I'll lead 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:24.680 with confidence and love for myself. 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:30.360 Girls Like Girls was the beginning of a new era 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:35.240 for Haley. Her debut album, Expectations, made twenty eighteen, the 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:38.400 year everything seemed to land at once, and she wasn't 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:42.040 the only one. Twenty eighteen became known as twenty gayteen, 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:45.600 a stretch where queer artists were breaking into the mainstream 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:49.320 and being celebrated out loud for exactly who they were, 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:54.720 and Hailey was right at the front of it. Your 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:57.840 debut album, Expectations, came out in twenty eighteen, the same 0:18:57.920 --> 0:18:59.840 year you won the Push Artists of the Year at 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:03.200 the Tvvmas, and you've performed on stage with Taylor Swept 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:03.880 for the first time. 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:05.920 Do you now think like, now I'm going to get 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:06.960 my instinct stage moment. 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:12.680 Yeah, twenty eighteen, which we call twenty gayteen, was definitely 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:16.000 one of the best years of my life and career 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:21.080 for sure. It was the culmination of working towards my 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:24.280 debut album. It was the first time I was signed 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:26.720 to a record label and getting to direct all these 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:30.800 music videos, and it really felt like my debut to 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:33.120 the world in the most authentic way. 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:35.160 So it was like the coolest thing. 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:39.600 That award at the MTV Music Awards was voted by 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:40.160 the fans. 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:43.480 That was like so extra special. My fan base. 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:47.399 I've been around, but I'm not like selling out arenas 0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:49.040 by any means, you know. 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:52.000 I think at that time I was still up and coming. 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:55.359 So it was a really really exciting time and I 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:59.760 felt like everything was coming together for like my musical 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:02.080 dres and aspirations. 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:04.520 I think of twenty eighteen. 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:07.840 As a really beautiful highlight and in my journey there 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:09.679 were just a lot of amazing things that happened. I 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:11.760 got to go on tour, I got to do a 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:15.480 soul Out tour and the US and Europe, and got 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:18.640 to perform with Taylor, which was so cool. I got 0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:22.479 to open for Panic at the disco. I felt really 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:27.560 supported in the music industry at that moment in my journey. 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:30.840 That was my first release with a major record label. 0:20:31.119 --> 0:20:34.040