WEBVTT - The Sid Meier Story Part 2 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:07.200 Get in touch with technology with text Stuff from how 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:14.680 Stuff Works dot com either and welcome to text Stuff. 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:18.720 I'm Jonathan Strickler. We are now going to conclude our 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:22.920 two part epic series on Sid Meyer, the man who 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:26.400 changed computer games forever, like by being one of the 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:29.320 people who made them first. He made them good. Yeah, 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:32.320 he made them good. Or of course side Meyer's just 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:37.159 one name among many instrumental programmers who really helped define 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:40.120 what video games were all about in those early computer 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:42.919 game days to the point where you would you know, 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:45.040 one of the things that Meyer likes to talk about 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:48.040 if you ever listen to interviews or read an interview 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:51.800 with him, he he talks about these nostalgic early days 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:55.640 of computer programming, back before there were genres of computer 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:58.680 games right right, and and all of the constraints of 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:02.640 trying to make something that worked and worked well when 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:05.320 the equipment that you had and the amount of memory 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:08.720 that you had to play with were so limited limited. Yeah, 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:11.360 and and the fact that you know, back then you 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:14.039 could just make whatever you thought would make a good game. 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:16.960 And his philosophy was if it's fun, put it in, 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:19.240 and if it's not fun, take it out. And that 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:21.920 would find the fun. Yeah, that was I mean, you 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:24.360 see this phrase over and over and over again. Find 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:28.240 the fun, give the players interesting choices. Those were two 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:30.640 of the main things he would stress over and over again. 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:33.920 And uh and it worked really well for him. So 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:36.520 when we left off at the end of the last episode, 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:41.000 he had just left the company that he had co founded, Micropros. Right. 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:44.480 Um and and I we should mention as If two 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:48.600 came out that year as well, which had been designed 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:52.280 by Brian Reynolds, who who was a young programmer who 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:56.440 had started working with sid Meyer. Yep, so Civilization to uh, 0:01:56.720 --> 0:01:59.720 you know, sid Meyer had input on Civilization too. Mainly 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:01.880 it was he was a playtester. He would play it 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:06.080 and give feedback to Brian Reynolds. In fact, that's really 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:08.640 how sid Meyer likes to design games as well. He 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:11.440 likes to build something he then we'll hand it off 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:14.480 to someone he really trusts to play it, get feedback 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:16.760 from that person, say what was fun, what wasn't fun? 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:19.120 Did you find anything confusing? And then tweak it based 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:21.720 on their feedback. Yeah, and then sometimes and then continue 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:24.799 that cycle. Sometimes this would take a course over like 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:27.360 a day. He would hand over a game a person 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:29.200 would play it, they'd hand it back at the end 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:30.360 of the day and say all right, well, here are 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:32.480 the things I have to tell you, and then sid 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:35.959 Meyer would go home, reprogram the game, and come back 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:39.000 the next morning and say here's the new version, and 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:41.240 it would start all over again. It's kind of crazy, 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:43.760 but that's sort of how Sidmyer likes to work. And 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:46.519 he doesn't tend to do things like draw up a 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:48.840 detailed plan of what a game is supposed to be 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:52.240 and then try and follow the blueprint. Instead, he builds, tests, 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:55.920 rebuilds right. And part of why he left Micropros was 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:59.399 that it was becoming that kind of corporate environment where 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:01.040 I think, you know, they were asking him to do 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:02.960 that kind of stuff, and he was like, that's not 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:05.240 how I work, not really. I do this because I 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:07.200 love to make games. I don't do it so then 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:10.639 I'm not trying to create franchises so much as I'm 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:13.760 trying to create compelling games. And the two are not 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:18.480 necessarily uh separate. But I don't want to be pigeoned 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:20.200 like I don't want to be I don't want to 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:23.080 be framed in this this context where I only create 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:27.520 civilization games from now on because Civilization one sold so well. Okay, 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:32.960 so Meyer, Brian Reynolds, and Jeff Briggs all leave Micropros 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:37.200 and um uh start up a new company called for 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:41.000 Access Games. Right, so for Access Games. That's um that 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:43.600 that company name comes from a fusion of two words, right, 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:52.640 fiery and access even like for Tree. Okay, you know, 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:54.320 I'm not I'm not gonna I'm not gonna argue that 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:56.800 they can do what they want. However, they like this 0:03:56.880 --> 0:04:00.160 is still in the Baltimore area. Um, they occasionally like 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:02.360 to say, you know, we we like to think of 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:07.080 it as Silicon Valley East, or or we like to 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:12.240 think of Silicon Valleys, um Valley West. Nice, I like 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:17.080 to think of it as John Waters Computer Development. Anyway. 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:20.040 So so Sidmyer his his title at for Access is 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:23.520 director of Creative Development. You might ask, what does director 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:27.800 of creative development mean? What is what's his actual job responsibility? 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:30.640 And it's to do what Sidmyer does, to do what 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:33.920 he wants. Yeah. He he essentially has a job where 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:36.599 he gets to concentrate on the projects that interest and 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:39.599 excite him. Because, as it turns out, if Sid Meyer 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:42.719 is excited and interested in something, a lot of gamers 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:45.240 tend to be interested and excited about it too. So 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:48.600 it's kind of this philosophy of if you let the 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:52.039 game designer who is really looking at creating a fun 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:55.800 experience do his or her thing, you end up with 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:59.479 a very marketable product. This is not always the case, obviously, 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:02.080 if you're if your game designer is not really good 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:04.600 at judging what is fun, then clearly that's a very 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:07.400 poor decision. But in this particular case, uh and and 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:09.560 the company was really started out very small. It was 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:13.240 only ten to fifteen people. Um and uh Meyer said 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:16.800 of the company at the time, the convicts are running 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:21.440 the asylum. It's great fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and he knows. 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:26.039 Also that year awarded a US patent for a quote 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:30.160 system for real time music composition and synthesis end quote. 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:33.799 Al Right, that was that? That was that a CPU 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:36.640 bach that I mentioned in the previous episode. Yes, so 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:39.039 cpu Bok was a program that would allow you to 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:42.320 compose your own music, which I think is an amazing idea. 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:45.160 It did not do well. It wasn't a commercial success 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:48.920 at all, Um, but but it also um said, Meyer 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:53.599 is deeply interested in music. He Um has has gone 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:56.040 on record saying that he Guitar Hero is one of 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:57.840 the games that he just really wishes he had thought 0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:01.400 of first, and that he's fascinated by its ability to 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:04.359 bring people who aren't familiar with music into that world. Right, 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:06.720 I've seen I've seen him say that he has two regrets. 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:08.960 That he's not the one who invented Tetris and he's 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:12.000 not the one who invented Guitar Hero. He also supposedly 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:15.320 um he's um very involved in one of his local 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:19.000 churches and writes, composes music for the choir, and plays 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:23.960 the organ. Yeah. Um. Speaking of his personal life, Fraxis 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:27.840 hired a woman named Susan Brickensum, who had previously worked 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:29.800 for the U. S. Navy in the Department of Defense, 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:33.000 UM to be the head of human resources. And this 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:36.000 would be important in a couple of years when she 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:39.160 and sid Meier got married and and and these days 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:43.000 she refers to her title as Master of Miscellaneous, Right, 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:45.200 I'm sure, I mean it was an important hire at 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:47.520 the time anyway, because she was a terrific she was 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:50.960 she was very good at personnel and very good with people, 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:54.640 and and still is is pretty instrumental in the company. Again, 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:57.160 when you talk about like interviews with sid Meyer, a 0:06:57.160 --> 0:06:59.640 lot of them mentioned that she, Susan is hanging out 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:02.000 right and and she she serves as sort of an 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:04.599 additional memory for Meyer, who has done a lot, you know, 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:07.080 but Meyer tends to he's a very affable kind of guy, 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:12.600 and Susan wild chime in and say what he's really saying. Well, actually, yeah, 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:14.840 by the way, shout out to all you act Accutron 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:16.880 tweeter you see all are great. Yeah, I can't wait 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:21.840 to see the will Actually he's about this episode ven MicroProse. 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:24.440 You know, this is after Meyer has already left. But 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:29.760 Micropros publishes Magic the Gathering, which reportedly was the last 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:34.040 game title at Micropros that sid Meyer had personally worked 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:37.800 on in some capacity before he had left, So at 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:41.000 that point, moving forward, the Micropros games that would come 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:45.840 out did not have sid Meyer's involvement. Moving ahead, a 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:49.520 couple of years in, sid Meyer was inducted into the 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:53.760 Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences Hall of Fame for 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:57.320 Lifetime Achievement. He was only the second person to ever 0:07:57.440 --> 0:07:59.840 receive that award. The first one was she get a 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:04.640 Minamoto big which name who you might know from doing 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:08.160 like Mario and Donkey Kong and Legend of Zelda and 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:13.400 numerous other games. So Sidney or not not not bad, 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:15.720 you know, not bad to be number two when that's 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:21.200 number one. He also launched, not literally, I guess, sid 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:24.680 Meyer's Alpha Centauri game, which was was it kind of 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:28.080 spinoff of Civilization? Yeah, it's sort of like, well, you 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:30.400 know how at the end of Civilization, if you've if 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:33.920 you followed the future tech pathway to trying to win, 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:38.000 you launched that that face colony out to Alpha Centauri. Well, 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:42.079 now we're starting you in Alpha Centauri. Yeah. Interesting little 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:44.520 side note, did you know? Oh well, never mind, I'm 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:46.280 gonna leave that for the trivia at the end of 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:49.680 this podcast. There's there's a fun little side note about 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:52.160 Alpha Centauri, but we'll talk about that at the trivia section. 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:57.440 So in two thousand, sid Meyer proposes a dinosaur themed game. 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:01.520 I've seen this. I've seen this refer to as um 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:05.800 uh sid Meyer's version of the white Whale. Yes, it's his, 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:09.679 it's his albatross, it's his white whale. It's his metaphor 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:12.240 for the things that he wanted to do that he 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:15.000 never quite got right. Um and it's not that he 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:17.840 launched a game that did poorly. No, he never launched 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:21.160 a game. He started to really think that a diasaur 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:24.120 based game has the potential for being really fun, but 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:26.560 he tried different approaches and none of them seemed to 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:30.959 be quite fun enough to him to merit an actual game. 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:34.040 He tried a real time version, he tried to turn 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:37.280 based version more like Civilization, and even tried a card 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:40.680 based game something like Magic the Gathering, but he never 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:42.880 felt it was quite good enough. Yeah, he was. He 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:45.079 was kind of obsessed with that. He made UM Jake Solomon, 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:47.480 who was the third person from that Katako interview whose 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:49.400 name I had completely forgotten at the top of the 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:52.640 previous podcast, UM play a version of this during his interview, 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:55.960 Like like Jake was trying to interview and Meyer was like, 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:58.240 can you play this game? What did you think about 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:00.880 the game? And Solomon got very the idea that this 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:03.080 wasn't part of the interview because it was just Meyer 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:06.040 going like, I really want feedback. Yeah. He said that 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:09.480 maybe Meyer was looking at for personality traits based upon 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:11.400 my responses, but I think he really just wanted to 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:15.000 know what I thought about the game. Um, he thought 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:18.360 Solomon also reported related to to this, and and also 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:21.559 some other stuff that that Meyer once said playing games 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:24.439 is a series of interesting decisions, but making games is 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:29.120 a series of heartbreaking disappointments. Right. So, Meyer, sad that 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:32.200 he can't get this dinosaur game to work, goes home, 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:35.359 and he stays home for about two weeks and employees 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:38.280 wonder what the heck is up with Meyer. Meyer comes 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:40.400 back and they says, Okay, I've got a pro type 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:43.440 game to show you, guys. It's totally different. And they're like, what, Like, 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:45.080 you were gone for two weeks. We thought you were 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:48.079 all depressed. Like yeah, He's like, yeah, I made sim Golf. 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:51.160 So he showed off sim Golf, which was actually, you know, 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:54.079 it is a game that allows you to create your 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:58.320 own golf courses along the lines of railroad Tycoon again. Right, 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:02.199 So he he shows this off and uh and they say, yeah, 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:06.240 we could sell this, this is a marketable game, and uh. 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:09.079 It kind of again shows that he creates games by 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:11.920 just diving in and building them rather than planning them 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:14.000 out in advance. It's not that he had planned on 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:17.760 making sim golf. He was still thinking about that dinosaur 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:20.200 game and then came up with a totally different approach 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:23.040 and uh so again that was just a pro type. 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:25.079 Obviously he would go in and refine it before it 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:27.920 would be marketed as sim Golf. But that's how it 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:31.640 was born. Now, in two thousand one a company from 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:35.319 France called Info Grams and I almost I always want 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:38.520 to drop the R out of it, constantly info Games. 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:44.440 But info Grams comes in and purchases from Hasbro a 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:48.280 a subsidiary, the Hasbro Interactive subsidiary. Why is this important 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:52.040 because that because Hasbro had purchased micro Prose a couple 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:56.040 of years previous. So um that was that was Sid 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:58.679 Meier's old company was micro Prose, and it had been 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:02.559 acquired by Hasbro. Hasbro could not really make their interactive 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:05.880 division work very well. This was I remember actually following 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:08.120 this news while it was happening and seeing that it 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:11.720 was really frustrating because it had Hasbro Interactive involved more 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:14.880 than just Micropros, that they had swept up a few companies, 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:17.240 and there was a lot of frustration that Hasbro had 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:20.160 bought up a lot of talent, or at least brands 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:22.800 that were very recognizable and didn't really manage to do 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:28.199 much with them. So anyway, Since Info Grames bought Hasbro Interactive, 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:29.880 it also meant that they got the rights to the 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:35.000 Civilization franchise and the name Micropros and the rights to 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:39.400 the Atari brand were also purchased in this acquisition. So 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:43.640 at this point Micropros as a distinct entity ceased to be. 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:46.839 It was just a name, just like Atari ceased to be. 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:51.000 It became just a name. So dark days for some people. 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:53.000 As as far as if you were to ask them 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:54.840 about what what do you feel about how do you 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:57.680 feel about this? I feel really sad because these these 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:01.360 were instrumental companies in the early days of video games 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:04.840 and computer games UM, and now they were just reduced 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:08.520 to a brand name. There was really no no identity 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:11.920 behind that. Uh. At two thousand two, Meyer got inducted 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:15.120 to another Hall of Fame, this time by the Computer Museum. 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:19.920 So so he's He's in several halls that are famous. 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:23.720 That was also in some golf was actually released UM 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:29.160 in a two thousand three Info Grames Info Grames, that's 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:33.120 my fault. I need a transposition error. It's info Grames. 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:35.199 I'm looking at the same notes that you're looking at, 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:39.880 and you said it the way I wrote it. So 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:44.480 I wrote it wrong. That's all excellent, Yes, C three 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:47.320 C three is the point of this sentence, right. So 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:51.480 Civilization three comes out from Info Grames, but the development 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:55.840 of CIV three came from for acxis. So the you know, 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:58.720 sid Meier of course founded for Access. So the company 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:03.720 that Sidmire helped found ended up developing Civilization three and 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:07.360 it was just published by Infogrames. Jeff Briggs was the 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:12.679 lead game designer for three. And that's when another video 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:17.000 game designer named Sarn Johnson began to work on this title, 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:19.560 on Civilization three, or or he had worked on it. 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:22.680 Now he had joined for Access back in two thousand. 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:25.440 Before he had joined for Access, he had worked for 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:29.680 Electronic Arts and uh, and he'll become important later to 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:34.480 two thousand four is when take two Interactive, which is 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:37.200 that might be a name that a lot of our 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:39.880 video game players are familiar with. It's a publishing company. Yeah. 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:42.920 They they own a rock star in two k UM, 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:45.800 which which I responsible for, like Grand Theft, Auto Grant. 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:49.160 The five comes out September sevent waits and like that 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:52.160 NBA two k and they they buy the rights to 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:56.080 the Civilization franchise from Info Grames. For twenty two point 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:59.920 three million dollars. In two thousand five, take to Interact 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:03.360 of then acquires for Access for twenty six point seven 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:07.400 million dollars. So once again you have all the components 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:12.680 that are associated with the Civilization computer game series together 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:16.080 under one roof. So it took some years that they 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:19.040 split off and did some crazy splintering stuff, but now 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:21.280 they're all part of the same company. And I believe 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:23.640 two thousand four, I'm sorry, two thousand five was also 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:27.000 the year that CE four was released, and uh, we're 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:29.760 up to five now as I recall, So two thousand 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:33.360 seven Civilization five is the current title, is what I'm 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:36.280 trying to at. But in two thousand seven, Soren Johnson, 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:38.560 the developer I was talking about earlier, he leaves for 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:41.040 Access to go back to e A, and he goes 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:45.240 to work with an old peer of Sid Meyers, Will Write, 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:48.680 who had made some city. Yeah, so Will Wright has 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:51.600 his own. We could do our another podcast just on 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:54.880 will Rap. I'd be great. Yeah, yeah sometime, Well, don't 0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:57.320 worry people who aren't big into video games. Well we'll 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:01.480 let some time. Yeah, well because breathing room. But he 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:04.560 goes to work with Will Wright on a game called Spore, 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:09.840 which had crazy buzz, so much hype, so much hype. Yeah, 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:16.120 the idea of this artificially intelligent, super advanced uh component 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:18.520 to this game, and that I was going to give 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:22.120 you unprecedented control over the evolution of creatures and you 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:24.440 could share them with each other and cross breed. And 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:29.680 the execution was what some would argue somewhat lacking compared 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:31.960 to the buzz that surrounded it in its early days. 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:33.920 It was one of those games that got delayed several 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:36.000 times and it just didn't seem to live up to 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:39.480 its potential. But that was its interesting that another person 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:41.280 who had worked with Sidmyer went on to go and 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:45.640 work with one of Meyer's early peers. Eventually, by the way, 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:48.640 Sore and Johnson would actually leave e A again. That 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:51.040 would be the second time he had left Electronic Arts. Uh. 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:53.640 That would be in and then he goes to join Zinga. 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:57.560 Oh of um all of the little apps, yeah, the 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:00.240 platform games, yeah, the apps and the mobile games uh 0:17:00.480 --> 0:17:04.240 and uh and that company it struggled quite a bit recently, yes, 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:08.439 But in eleven that same year when Sare and Johnson 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:12.960 had left, that's when Sieve World comes out. Now, this 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:15.639 was a game that sid Meier was lead developer on. 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:20.000 Civil World was a flash based game that used Facebook 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:22.840 as the platform. So you know those games when you 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:24.680 go on to Facebook you get all those invites from 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:27.200 your friends who don't like you, who want you to play. 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:31.359 Was it candy Crush something I I've literally never played 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:35.280 a Facebook game, so I would not know. I did early, early, 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:37.520 early on in the days of Facebook, and then decided, 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:40.240 you know, this is the these these games don't really 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:42.040 appeal to me. Now, it may have been that I 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:46.760 was playing poorly developed games, right, But anyways, this was 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:50.520 sid Meier's approach to getting into this. So they launched 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:55.439 it inleven, but they shut it down in early It just, 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:59.159 I guess wasn't working properly. It just didn't align with 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:02.119 the rest of the company's vision. But anyway, that was 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:04.919 one of the latest titles that sid Meier had a 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:10.280 direct hand in developing. For Access was named the number 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:13.960 one developer of the year by Game Informer magazine. X 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:16.200 Com had come out that year, a sci fi strategy 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:19.879 game that hit a lot of critical and popular acclaim right, 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:22.399 and actually, if you if you look back at the 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:25.000 history of sid Meyer, you'll see that there's an earlier 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:27.199 game called X Calm. This was a sort of a 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:30.400 reimagination of that earlier game. And I know a lot 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:33.800 of people who are huge X com fans. I have 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:36.919 not played it, but all the people I know who 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:39.240 have played it, they just rent and rave and say 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:42.280 this is fantastic. Jake Solomon, who I was talking about earlier, 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:44.520 was the one who directed that one. Got you. So 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:48.800 that's when the the well, first of all, that's this 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:52.359 year when we're recording that hill, Welcome to the present. 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:55.960 I'm reading the notes and I just present when we 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:58.880 all got our jet packs and all food came in pilform. 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:03.080 That's actually the the The latest title that Sidmyer has 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:07.439 developed came out this year. It's called Ace Patrol and 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:12.679 it was in fact Sidmyer's first game specifically for mobile platforms, 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:16.600 meaning you know, smartphones, tablet second thing, and uh, the 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:19.840 way the game works, it's it's a World War One 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:24.480 airplane strategy game. So you're you're controlling pilots who are 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:28.720 flying various types of aircraft and you go into dog fights, 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:32.880 but you're not controlling the airplanes. It's turn based, so 0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:36.240 you know, you try and have your pilot, takedown other pilots, 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:38.640 and as you progress through the game, you can upgrade 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:43.400 your pilot skills and the airplanes capabilities. Um and uh 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:46.840 so it plays a lot like other strategy games. Uh. Actually, 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:50.880 just two days before we were recording this, on August 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:55.600 Ace Patrol was released for PC on Steam. So you 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:58.000 can play it either on a mobile platform or you 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:00.679 can play it on on Steam. What it's interesting here 0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:02.760 is it also gives us a little bit of an 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:06.520 insight into Myer's opinions about some of the ways that 0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:10.960 games are being marketed these days. Um, like freemium games. Now, 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:13.360 these are the games that are free for you to download, 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:16.199 but if you want specific items or you want to 0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:19.040 get access to certain levels, you have to pay. Right 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:22.280 and it's a frequent model for for mobile games. Right 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:25.080 e A is really big on this, for instance, and 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:27.800 you know it does a lot of thing it does too. Yeah, 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:29.800 there are a lot of different companies that are trying this. 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:32.480 And then you're seeing this not just on things like 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:36.200 mobile platforms, but also in consoles where you can get 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:38.600 consoles where you end up having the stuff that you 0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:41.320 can pay extra for and get access to, or or 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:43.679 n PC games a lot of the MMOs and involve 0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:46.200 elements like that. Now, some of these games also allow 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:50.040 you to eventually earn those items if you play long enough, 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:53.760 but they're trying to create an incentive for players to 0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:56.399 spend the money to get earlier access to this stuff. 0:20:56.640 --> 0:21:00.440 So Meyer was asked about his opinion on this, and 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:03.960 he said that building a game like that is about 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:10.840 designing unhappiness, which that's pretty tough. Yeah. He's essentially saying 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:13.679 that you your goal when you are designing a freemium 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:15.800 game where you're trying to give people the incentive to 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:18.240 buy more stuff, is that you have to design a 0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:22.880 game so not fun that people will pay to make 0:21:22.920 --> 0:21:26.080 it fun. He says that kind of goes against the 0:21:26.119 --> 0:21:29.879 grain of game design. That's, uh, that's a kind of 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:32.840 harsh and b I think entirely true. Yeah. I mean, 0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:34.680 when you think of it that way, you're like, that's 0:21:34.680 --> 0:21:36.960 totally not the way the game developers are thinking about 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:40.160 when they're designing the game. But from a consumer standpoint, yeah, 0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:42.320 I can see that saying we won this game to 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:45.359 be engaging enough so that someone wants to download it, 0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:48.800 but not so engaging that they feel that they fulfilled. 0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:54.240 They have to pay to really get that fulfilling experience, 0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:56.000 and that myers like I don't want to be part 0:21:56.040 --> 0:21:59.520 of that. So with the iOS version of Ace Patrol, 0:21:59.840 --> 0:22:01.960 you could pay five dollars and get the whole game. 0:22:02.400 --> 0:22:04.600 You could try to play it for free, and you 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:07.080