1 00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of I Heart Radio 2 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:08,879 Speaker 1: and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minky. Listener discretion is advised. 3 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: Before I get started, I want to remind you all 4 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,959 Speaker 1: that this is the season two finale of Haunted Road. 5 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: We'll be taking a break before we return with season three, 6 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: so please remain subscribed and please keep telling your friends 7 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: and spreading the good word. Thanks so much for your 8 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: support and listenership. I love going on this journey with 9 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: you every week. Hopefully we can keep the show rolling 10 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 1: for many seasons to come. Now let's get spooky. One 11 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: evening in April two eight, I found myself sitting in 12 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: a morgue, not really an unusual situation for an investigator 13 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: like me, but this particular morgue was very deteriorated. It 14 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: had not been in use for years and was not 15 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: open to the public. Sitting with a small group of 16 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: other investigators, we started doing e v P work in 17 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,199 Speaker 1: the dark, and after a few questions, we played back 18 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: our recordings. To our surprise, we heard a voice answering us. 19 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: A female voice. It was faint and what she was 20 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 1: saying was hard to decipher, but it was most definitely 21 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: a woman. This was what surprised us, because we were 22 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,119 Speaker 1: sitting in the morgue of one of the most notorious 23 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: prisons in the world, a prison that only housed a 24 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: male population. We were sitting in the morgue of Alcatraz. 25 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: How are we investigating at Alcatraz? You ask? A small 26 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: group of us had won a lottery for a coveted 27 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,839 Speaker 1: overnight stay on the rock. At the time, they only 28 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: allowed about twenty of these each year. As that night progressed, 29 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: I needed to get a little sleep, so I settled 30 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: in my bed in Cell Block D, the most haunted 31 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: portion of the prison, because of course that's where i'd sleep. However, 32 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: within what seemed like moments of my eyes fluttering closed, 33 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: I heard what sounded like footsteps entered my cell. I 34 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: expected one of my friends to be playing a prank, 35 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: so I opened my eyes wide and shot up in 36 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 1: my bunk to scare them back. But I was alone. 37 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: All I could see was the faint glow of moonlight, 38 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 1: and all I could hear was a foghorn in the distance. 39 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: The entire building was still, and while I was supposedly alone, 40 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: I certainly didn't feel that way. It's safe to say 41 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: I did not get any sleep. I'm Amy Brunei and 42 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: this is haunted road. In June nineteen sixty two, Frank 43 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: Morris and brothers John and Clarence England vanished from their 44 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: cells in Alcatraz, never to be heard from again. It 45 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: was later discovered that the men hatched an intricate plot 46 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: to escape the island prison, tunneling holes in walls, they 47 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: disguised with false fronts, enlarging air events, and fashioning dummies 48 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: complete with human hair to pass night inspection so they 49 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 1: could escape from their cells undetected. They used prison issued 50 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: raincoats to make crude life fests and a pontoon type 51 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: raft to assist in their swim, The Federal Bureau of 52 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: Prisons wrote in a History of Alcatraz. A cell house 53 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: search turned up the drills, heads, wall segments, and other tools, 54 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: while the water search found two life fests, one in 55 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: the bay the other outside the Golden Gate, oars and 56 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: letters and photographs belonging to the Anglands that had been 57 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: carefully wrapped to be water tight, but no sign of 58 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: the men was found. Other prisoners had tried to escape 59 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: from the island before, but none had vanished without a trace. 60 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: This infamous event was dramatized in the nineteen seventy nine 61 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: Clint Eastwood movie Skate from Alcatraz, but that's certainly not 62 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: where the legends of the most notorious prison in American 63 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 1: history started. Alcatraz was colonized in seventeen seventy five by 64 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: Spanish explorer Juan Manuel day Eliah, who named it Alcatrasis 65 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: after the islands Pelicans, which was eventually anglicized to the 66 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: name we know today. In the mid nineteenth century, the U. 67 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: S Army built a fort on the island, which held 68 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: the first lighthouse on the west coast. As a fortress, 69 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: it was nearly impregnable, as technology of the time could 70 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 1: make it. The National Park Service has said an American Gibraltar, 71 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: and it was crowned with a brick masonry citadel, which 72 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 1: may have been unique in the annals of American military architecture. 73 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:48,719 Speaker 1: While it was fashioned as a fortress, Alcatraz's fort never 74 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 1: saw a military action, and instead became a prison to 75 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: punish and detain insubordinate soldiers. Eventually, the detainee population grew 76 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: to include Confederate sympathizers and civil war and conscientious objectors. 77 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: In World War one. It also has a dark history 78 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:10,359 Speaker 1: of imprisoning Native Americans who resisted the whitewashing imposed on 79 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: them by the American government, imprisoning Native activists as early 80 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: as eighteen seventy three, who were described as murderous looking 81 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: Indians by a San Francisco newspaper in eighteen nine. The 82 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 1: article is filled with racial stereotypes of murderous and crafty 83 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: Redskins who refused to live according to the civilized ways 84 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: of the white men. The National Park Service later wrote 85 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,799 Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty four, the government converted the building into 86 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: a federal penitentiary. There is maybe no other prison in 87 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: America that has inspired the legends Alcatraz has or holds 88 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: the same place in pop culture. Before you tweeted me 89 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 1: know the prison from Shawshank Redemption isn't a real place. 90 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: Alcatraz has inspired movies like the nineteen sixty two film 91 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: Birdman of Alcatraz starring Burt Lancaster, that aforementioned Clint Eastwood movie, 92 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: and The Rock The nineteen nine modern masterpiece was Sean 93 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: Connery and Nicholas Cage. Public fascination comes from its prominent 94 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: spot in San Francisco Bay and its history of imprisoning 95 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: many of the most notorious criminals of the early twentieth century. 96 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,919 Speaker 1: After gangster al Capone was convicted of tax evasion in 97 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty one, he was sent to prison in Atlanta, 98 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 1: but in declining health and in need of isolation from 99 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: other inmates who saw him as an easy target, was 100 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: moved to the Rock in nineteen thirty four. Other infamous 101 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: inmates included George Machine Gun Kelly, the original not that 102 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 1: Guy on the Radio Today, Alvin Carpass, who was the 103 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 1: first ever public Enemy Number one, and Whitey Bulger, who 104 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: did time there before he rose to prominence in the 105 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: Boston Mob and spent sixteen years on the Lamb until 106 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: he was caught in Most of the prisoners, though, weren't 107 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: making headlines or pulling off nationally known capers. They were 108 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: inmates at other prisons who consistently disobeyed the rules and 109 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: needed stricter discipline, or who were considered violent or had 110 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: a high risk of escape. The prison on the Island 111 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: was made up of one building with four cellblocks A 112 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: through D, separated by hallways with names like Broadway, Times Square, 113 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: Sunrise Alley, and Sunset Boulevard. There was also a library, 114 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 1: a chapel, an inmates barber shop, an exercise yard, and 115 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: underground dungeon cells used for the most inhumane punishments. While 116 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: there was a morgue in the building, no autopsies were 117 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: actually performed there, as there were relatively few mortalities, and 118 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: the executions would happen on the mainland at California's San 119 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: Quentin State Prison. Also on the island were housing for 120 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: the warden and for the guards and their families, an 121 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: officer's club, a lighthouse, and several other operational buildings for 122 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: the approximately three hundred civilians living on the island, including 123 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: prison staff and their families. There was also a bowling 124 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: alley and soda fountain. If you want to see something 125 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: really cool, you can visit mp maps dot com slash 126 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: Alcatraz and compare maps of the island today with how 127 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: it looked in nineteen seventy seven, nineteen ten, and eighteen 128 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: sixty seven, when it was just a military fort. Though 129 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: Alcatraz could hold up to three hundred thirty six inmates, 130 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: there were usually only about two hundred sixty or two 131 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: hundred seventy inside, according to the Federal Bureau of Prisons 132 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: at any given time, Alcatraz had less than one percent 133 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: of the total federal prison population. In its years as 134 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 1: a federal prison, Alcatraz only held about fifteen hundred prisoners total. 135 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: Many prisoners actually considered the living conditions, for instance, always 136 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: one man to a sell at Alcatraz, to be better 137 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:02,479 Speaker 1: than other federal prison sins, and several inmates actually requested 138 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: a transfer to Alcatraz, according to a history of the 139 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:09,559 Speaker 1: prison by the Federal Bureau of Prisons. In particular, inmates 140 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: praised the food, and some claim to feel safer in 141 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: Alcatraz's individual cells because not having a cellmate minimized the 142 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:21,599 Speaker 1: risk of assault. But while Alcatraz was not the America's 143 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: Devil's Island that books and movies often portrayed, it was 144 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 1: designed to be a prison systems prison. It's isolation made 145 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 1: the institution nearly escape proof, though there were absolutely escape attempts, 146 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: none of which are believed to be successful. But it 147 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:41,239 Speaker 1: was the design of daily life that really made Alcatraz 148 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: a prison systems prison. Alcatraz was known for its highly structured, 149 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,959 Speaker 1: monotonous daily routine that was designed to teach an inmate 150 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: to follow rules and regulations. At Alcatraz, a prisoner had 151 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: four rights, food, clothing, shelter, and medical care. Everything else 152 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: was a privilege that had to be earned. Some privileges 153 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: a prisoner could earn included working, corresponding with, and having 154 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 1: visits from family members, access to the prison library, and 155 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: recreational activities such as painting and music. Once prison officials 156 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: felt a man no longer posed a threat and could 157 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 1: follow the rules, usually after an average of five years 158 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,959 Speaker 1: on Alcatraz, he could then be transferred back to another 159 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: federal prison to finish his sentence and be released. One 160 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 1: particularly harsh treatment was the rule of Silence, which mandated 161 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 1: that prisoners only speak to each other during meals or recreation. 162 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: It lasted through the late nineteen thirties. Conditions in the 163 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: prison were bad for white inmates, but even worse for 164 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: people of color behind bars. One African American prisoner, Robert Lipscomb, 165 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: gained a reputation among the guards for being a troublemaker 166 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: because of his repeated protests against segregation and inequality in 167 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: the prison system during the civil rights movement of the 168 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,719 Speaker 1: nineteen sixties. Live Scum even wrote to then the U. S. 169 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: Attorney General, Robert F. Kennedy about the issue and orchestrated 170 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: a protest of unequal race based treatment in the prison. 171 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: He was labeled a racial agitator. According to the National 172 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:17,959 Speaker 1: Park Service, Alcatraz guards punished him with solitary confinement in 173 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: a cell with no light for twenty four hours at 174 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: a time. Solitary confinement in Alcatraz was terrible, but it 175 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: wasn't the worst punishment at the prison by far. There 176 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 1: was also a dungeon like cell called the Whole, a 177 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 1: pitch dark horror with slimy walls crawling with rats. It 178 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 1: was reserved for what officials deemed to be the very 179 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: worst offenders, like Robert Simmons, an African American man from Savannah, Georgia. 180 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: Simmons was imprisoned at Alcatraz in nineteen eighteen for being 181 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: a conscientious objector who refused to fight when he was 182 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: conscripted into service during World War One. When he was 183 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: brought to the island, Simmons was immediately put in the 184 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: hole for fourteen days. He and thirty other inmates imprisoned 185 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 1: for conscientious objection refused to comply with orders. They were 186 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,679 Speaker 1: placed in iron cages, which were cells where they were 187 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 1: forced to stand chained to the cell door, unable to 188 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: sit or even turn around for eight hours a day. 189 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:21,559 Speaker 1: Despite its grim history and the undeniable suffering that happened there, 190 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: not that many people died on the island. According to 191 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: Alcatraz history dot com, eight people were murdered by inmates, 192 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 1: five men committed suicide, and fifteen died from natural causes. 193 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: But then there were the men who tried to escape. 194 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: Of the thirty six men who attempted it, twenty three 195 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: were caught, six were killed by prison guards, and the 196 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: remaining seven either drowned or were presumed drowned because they 197 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: were never recovered. The government chose Alcatraz for a prison 198 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: because it was virtually escape proof, but that didn't stop 199 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: people from trying, sometimes in the most inventive ways. Some 200 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: tried to climb fences, only to fall one feet to 201 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: their death. Some filed bars in the windows and the 202 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: machine shop, only to likely drown in a bad storm. 203 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty eight, three inmates attacked and killed a 204 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 1: correctional officer and then climbed to the roof to attack another. 205 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: One was shot dead and the other two received life sentences. 206 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: In nineteen forty three, four prisoners took two officers hostage 207 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: escaping to the beach. Two were apprehended, one was shot 208 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: and presumed drowned, and one also presumed dead, was found 209 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: alive and recaptured after emerging from the sea cave he 210 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: had been hiding in for two days. In nineteen forty six, though, 211 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: was an insurrection so big it was later called the 212 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 1: Battle of Alcatraz. Six prisoners overpowered officers, gaining access to 213 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 1: weapons and the keys to the cell house. When the 214 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: men realized they didn't have the keys to the yard, 215 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: they knew they were trapped, but decided to fight. They 216 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 1: shot and killed two officers and wounded sixteen others before 217 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 1: the Marines were called in to help regain control of 218 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:04,199 Speaker 1: the prison. In the end, three of the insurrectionists were killed, 219 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: two were sentenced to the death penalty, and one received 220 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: a second life sentence. Of the fourteen escape attempts, all 221 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: of them were unsuccessful. Probably there's a slim chance one 222 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: or two of them missing really did make it to land, 223 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: although probably not. Civilian swimmers have successfully crossed the one 224 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: one quarter miles stretched to Alcatraz, but they had the 225 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: benefit of exercise and conditioning and weren't subject to a 226 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: prison diet experts think it's unlikely any of the men 227 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: who weren't found made it to the mainland, maybe to 228 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 1: counteract some of the awful truths about the prison, and 229 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: maybe because it's just human nature to turn rumors and 230 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: stories into legends. Happier tales have grown around Alcatraz too, 231 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 1: but that's the thing, they're just stories. The most famous 232 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: of all of them is the Birdman of Alcatraz, a 233 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: tall tale about Robert Stroud, originally imprisoned for manslaughter, who 234 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: was moved moved to the federal prison in Leavenworth, Kansas 235 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: after attacking another inmate. He was then transferred to Alcatraz 236 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: after being convicted of first degree murder of eleven Worth 237 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: prison guard. Stroud raised and sold birds during his time 238 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: at that prison, even writing a book called Diseases of Canaries, 239 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: which had to be smuggled out to be published, but 240 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: all that stopped in Kansas. According to the Federal Bureau 241 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: of Prisons, Stroud never had any birds at Alcatraz, nor 242 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: was he the grandfatherly person portrayed by Burt Lancaster in 243 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: the well known movie. Another rumor that isn't true that 244 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: Al Capone used to play his banjo in the bathroom. 245 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: Wild San Francisco Tours wrote about this one, which often 246 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 1: ends up in stories about the hauntings at Alcatraz. Due 247 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: to fearing that he would be killed if he dared 248 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: to play the banjo in the open, the website wrote, 249 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: he resolved to practice it in the showers. Some say 250 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: they can still hear the banjo music playing there on occasion. 251 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: Capone definitely did play banjo in the prison band called 252 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: the Rock Islanders, which gave concerts on Sundays for other inmates, 253 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: but there's no substantiated accounts of Capone being afraid to 254 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: practice or playing in the showers. I've investigated Alcatraz many times, 255 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: and I've never once heard the sounds of a ghostly 256 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: banjo in a bathroom, and trust me, I would recognize 257 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: that sound. I've been on the Haunted Mansion ride at 258 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 1: Disney enough times to know a ghost banjo when I 259 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: hear one. The federal prison on Alcatraz closed on March 260 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: twenty one, nineteen sixty three, with prisoners being located to 261 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: other federal penitentiaries. Alcatraz didn't close because of the increasingly 262 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: daring and deadly escape attempts, but rather as most things 263 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: in government go because of money. The island prison needed 264 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 1: an estimated three to five million dollars in repairs to 265 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: keep the prison open. Beyond that, Alcatraz was significantly more 266 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: expensive to operate than any other federal prison, nearly three 267 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: times the cost and act. According to the Federal Bureau 268 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 1: of Prisons, the daily per capita costs at Alcatraz in 269 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:09,159 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty nine was ten dollars ten dollars compared to 270 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: three dollars at Atlanta's Federal Correctional Facility. In nineteen seventy 271 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: of fire on the island damaged its historic lighthouse and 272 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 1: destroyed four buildings. Two years later, Alcatraz became part of 273 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: the new Golden Gate National Recreation Area and the prison 274 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 1: open to the public. It's now a massively popular tourist destination, 275 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: bringing in more than one point four million visitors a year, 276 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: according to the park's conservancy. They explore the shoreline toward 277 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: the grounds, walk through cell blocks, peer into the darkness 278 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: of solitary confinement, and quite often they experienced things they 279 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 1: can't explain. Visitors say they hear strange sounds and have 280 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 1: even claimed to have seen the old now burned lighthouse 281 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: reappear on foggy nights, illuminated by an eerie green light. 282 00:17:55,960 --> 00:18:00,159 Speaker 1: But reports of hauntings at Alcatraz aren't new. Prisoners and 283 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,440 Speaker 1: even guards were claiming to have seen terrifying things they're 284 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 1: nearly a century ago. While the island served as a 285 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: federal penitentiary, Several guards reported extraordinary experiences, including hearing the 286 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: sounds of sobbing and moaning, terrible smells, and reports of 287 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 1: what they called the Thing, an entity that was said 288 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:23,159 Speaker 1: to appear with glowing eyes. Author Kathy Wiser wrote in 289 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: Ghosts of Alcatraz Island other reports were made of phantom 290 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 1: prisoners and soldiers appearing before the guards and families who 291 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: lived on the island, especially as the prison aged and 292 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 1: collected more and more traumatic experiences and deaths. Guards reported 293 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,920 Speaker 1: strange noises, especially from a corridor where three inmates were 294 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:47,880 Speaker 1: shot as they were trying to escape. Reportedly, even warden Johnston, 295 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,679 Speaker 1: who did not believe in ghosts, once encountered the unmistakable 296 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 1: sounds of a woman's sobbing while leading several guests on 297 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 1: a tour of the prison. Cathy Wiser wrote, the cries 298 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 1: heard by the warden and the guests were described coming 299 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,679 Speaker 1: from inside the walls of the dungeon. Just as the 300 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: sobbings stopped, an icy cold wind blew through the group. 301 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,479 Speaker 1: There's even a notorious story about an apparition in the 302 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: warden's house during a Christmas party. Guests reported seeing a 303 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: man appear before them, wearing a gray suit and mutton 304 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: chops sideburns. As he materialized, guards later recounted the room 305 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: turned very cold and the fire in the stove went out, 306 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: then the man vanished. Though the house has since burned down, 307 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: people still regularly claimed to have strange experiences at that 308 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: spot on the island. The most and most terrifying paranormal 309 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: experiences have been reported inside the prison walls. Throughout cell 310 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: blocks A, B, and C. Visitors and National Park Service 311 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 1: employees have reported hearing mysterious screams, moaning and crying from 312 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 1: disembodied voices, crashing sounds, and running footsteps. Night watchmen have 313 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 1: said they've repeated we heard strange clanging coming from cell 314 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: blocked C, which stops as soon as the guard opens 315 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 1: the door to investigate. Cell Block D, though, is another story. Altogether, 316 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 1: allegedly the most haunted section of the prison, the area 317 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: was plagued with dark happenings even when prisoners were still 318 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: incarcerated there. It is believed that one night in the 319 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: nineteen forties, a prisoner of the cell was screaming in 320 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 1: terror about seeing a creature with glowing eyes. The next day, 321 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: officers found the prisoner strangled to death in his cell. 322 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:36,680 Speaker 1: The ghost of that prisoner now roams the area seeking revenge. 323 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: That revenge part might be a little outlandish, but there 324 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: have been multiple accounts of a being with glowing eyes, 325 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,880 Speaker 1: especially around Cell fourteen D, where a prisoner did actually 326 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 1: die after claiming to have seen the creature. Visitors today 327 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 1: report feeling extreme cold when they enter that space, as 328 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: though there is something otherworldly in the room. A former 329 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: guard who worked at the is in in the nineteen 330 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 1: forties reported that guards often saw the ghostly presence of 331 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: a man dressed in late eighteen hundreds prison attire walking 332 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,120 Speaker 1: the hallway next to the strip cells. On one occasion, 333 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 1: when an inmate was locked in the hole, he immediately 334 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: began to scream that someone with glowing eyes was in 335 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: there with him. The nineteenth century spectral prisoner had become 336 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: so much of a practical joke among the guards that 337 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: the convicts cries of being attacked were ignored. The inmates 338 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 1: screams continued well into the night, when they were suddenly 339 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: replaced by total silence. When the guards inspected the cell 340 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: the following morning, the convict was found dead, with a 341 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 1: terrible expression on his face and noticeable handprints around his throat. 342 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: The autopsy revealed that the strangulation was not self inflicted. 343 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: Up next, we're going to chat about all of this 344 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: with my good friend Chris Fleming. He and I both 345 00:21:56,320 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: have investigated Alcatraz on a few occasions, and to other 346 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 1: we'll share our experiences in theories on why the rock 347 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: is so haunted. That is coming up after the break. 348 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 1: All right, So I am sitting here with one of mine. 349 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: I don't want to say oldest friends because we're not old, 350 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: but we've known each other for a very long time, 351 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: Mr Chris Fleming. I mean he's a paranormal investigator, medium researcher. 352 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: You wear many hats, don't you, Chris, Yes, I do, 353 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: amy I believe it. I often marvel over your closet. Actually, 354 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:50,360 Speaker 1: you always dress very well. So that aside, full disclosure 355 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,439 Speaker 1: for people listening, I already explained this to Chris, but 356 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: in the epitome of first world problems. I am on 357 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: vacation right now on a very different island than the 358 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 1: one we're about to talk about. I'm on the Big 359 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,120 Speaker 1: Island of Hawaii, and the ocean is so loud outside 360 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: my room that I'm literally recording this in the closet 361 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,439 Speaker 1: and I'm doing my best. I'm hearing housekeeping outside, i 362 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: hear the ocean behind me. So we'll just let it 363 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: add to the ambiance as we talked about Alcatraz right exactly. 364 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: So I wanted to talk to Chris because, like me, 365 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 1: he has investigated Alcatraz a couple of times, and it's 366 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:32,120 Speaker 1: one of those places that is hard to investigate. It's 367 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 1: not really open to investigations. And I know the first 368 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 1: time I investigated was in like two thousand seven or eight. 369 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: And the way we were able to do it was 370 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: they have a lottery system for overnights, and so I 371 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: was working with a nonprofit and basically we put our 372 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 1: name in for the lottery for the overnight and we 373 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 1: got it. And so a group of like fifteen or 374 00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: twenty of us just all got to go and spend 375 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: the night on Alcatraz and It was such an interesting 376 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: cast of characters. It was me, Dave Schrader was there, 377 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:10,159 Speaker 1: Mark and Debbie Konstantino where Patrick Burns was there. It 378 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: was just like just this really cool, like kind of 379 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: hodgepodge a group of investigators and it was really fun. 380 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: It was one of my first really um cool experiences 381 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: with the paranormal community. So just a neat story. Now, 382 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 1: how did you get to investigate the Rock? It was 383 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: always one of my top ten places I wanted to go. 384 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: And when I had got hired to do the TV 385 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: show Dead Famous, we had various locations and one of 386 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 1: the episodes was on al Capone, So they said we're 387 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,160 Speaker 1: going to Alcatraz and I'm like, oh my god, It's 388 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: been on my list. So we went to Alcatraz during 389 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,159 Speaker 1: the middle of the day and we're there all the 390 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: way until early in the morning. The first time we 391 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: were there, and because of what I captured on my 392 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 1: record or some of the e v p s, when 393 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: production presented this to the network, they said, oh my god. 394 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 1: So they quickly greenlit a special return to Alcatraz. So 395 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,160 Speaker 1: a couple of months later we went back gout to Alcatraz, 396 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:05,160 Speaker 1: but this time we spent an entire twenty four hours there, 397 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: which was great. You know, we didn't sleep, We just 398 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,159 Speaker 1: went through the whole investigation, the whole time documenting it. 399 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 1: So for me, it was a dream come true. We're 400 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:14,960 Speaker 1: very fortunate to have been able to go, and even 401 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: to have been able to go on more than one occasion. Like, 402 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,160 Speaker 1: I'm well aware of how awesome that is. I did 403 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: sleep on the island. I slept in cell Block D, 404 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 1: which is supposedly I got stories for you. I slept 405 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: all by myself in a cell like I find you 406 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: know how you kind of hit a wall at some 407 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: point when you're investigating, like three or four in the morning, 408 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: you're like, okay, I need a moment. I didn't sleep 409 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: that Well, it turns out so not that night. So 410 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 1: tell me what happened to you in cellblock D. Well, 411 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,880 Speaker 1: the first time we went there, um, they said, Chris, 412 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:47,879 Speaker 1: you know we're gonna put you in cell block D 413 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 1: and fourteen because there's this story. They tell me the story. 414 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 1: They said that, oh great, I'm not going in there. 415 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 1: The story was for those that don't know, and I 416 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: don't know if you shared it already, was that an 417 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: inmate was put in there for something he did. And 418 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: to describe the cell is there's no window, there's nothing, 419 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,679 Speaker 1: it's pitch dark, and there's really nothing to sleep on, 420 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,120 Speaker 1: so they were basically in there with nothing. The inmate 421 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 1: was screaming out that there was something in there with 422 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: him and had like these glowing eyes, and he was terrified. 423 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,679 Speaker 1: The security guards are like, oh, yeah, right, you know whatever. 424 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,160 Speaker 1: The next morning they go there, he's dead and from 425 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: what rumor says is that he was choked around the throat. 426 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,400 Speaker 1: He was killed and they don't know how this happened. 427 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 1: So it's scared other inmates. But they used this against 428 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: them where they would tend putting inmates in there that 429 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 1: were really bad and they'd be terrified. The didn't want 430 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: to go in there because they heard what happened in 431 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,880 Speaker 1: this guy. So they put me in cell block fourteen 432 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: D and I was in there for about forty five minutes, 433 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:48,120 Speaker 1: almost an hour, and nothing. I felt nothing. So I'm like, 434 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:49,919 Speaker 1: all right, this is not working this as well. Do 435 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 1: you want to try some of the other cells? I said, sure, 436 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,399 Speaker 1: So I went down to thirteen and filmything. Went to 437 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 1: cell block twelve, which is just two doors down. That 438 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,120 Speaker 1: is where things started happening. I started feeling some stuff 439 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: and then my recorder shut off by itself, which is 440 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 1: the hell out of me. Because it's very tinty inside there, 441 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: any sound is amplified, and when you're in pitch dark 442 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: by yourself filming yourself with a camera in your left hand, 443 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: it was startling. But what happened was I was basically 444 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: calling out, saying, come on, as prisoners here. I've had 445 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 1: experiences since I was a child. You know, show me something, 446 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,679 Speaker 1: prove something to me that you're here. Were you afraid 447 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,120 Speaker 1: of me? I played back the audio and I caught 448 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: this e VP that says, I'll face you. Oh my god, 449 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,679 Speaker 1: Oh my god. Amy. It's it's when you listen to 450 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,439 Speaker 1: the sound of the voice, like when I speak to 451 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 1: people and I present this e v P to them 452 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: in some of my lectures, you can tell the personality 453 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,199 Speaker 1: as if there's some older guy with tattoos, you know, 454 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: obviously an inmate. But then also the voice is very rough, 455 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,359 Speaker 1: like he smoked a lot, and I'm like, personality comes 456 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 1: through clearly. So there was other e VP twos like 457 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 1: We're going to effing kill you, stuff like that, which 458 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 1: was very violent because here I was antagonizing them, saying, 459 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 1: prove yourself. So for us it was extraordinary that, Okay, 460 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 1: we got some contact through e v P. I did 461 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 1: pick up. There's a lot of residual energy that was there, 462 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: obviously from inmates being there, a lot of emotional dismay, violence. 463 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 1: But the one interesting thing I did connect with one spirit. 464 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: It was actually near the laundry room, which at first 465 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 1: I thought was very peaceful, like, oh, I was peaceful, 466 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,199 Speaker 1: it's away from everybody else where, people don't get bothered. 467 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,359 Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden something connected with me 468 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 1: and it shifted, and for me to this day, this 469 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,400 Speaker 1: still is probably one of the most emotional connections I've 470 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,920 Speaker 1: had with the spirit. Beside one spirit who was trying 471 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: to find his daughters, this inmate that was there had 472 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: killed a woman and when he was killing her, unfortunately 473 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 1: a child came out of one of the rooms and 474 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 1: he ended up killing that child. Now his soul had 475 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: died there and basically saying is I've always regretted killing 476 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: that child, and because that I could never go to heaven. 477 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: I can never leave this place. So he's basically stuck there. 478 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: And the most horrific part about that you understand this 479 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: with working with Chip is we will sometimes see the 480 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: visuals and the emotions of what this person experienced and 481 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: what they did. So I'm breaking down crying. It's as 482 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 1: if I just witnessed it right in front of me. 483 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: So still to this day, it's probably one of the 484 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: most emotional connections that I've had with a spirit and 485 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: witnessing this, but also the remorse that this soul had 486 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: in spirit to what he had done. So that was 487 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: one interesting connection that occurred. That brings up a good point. 488 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 1: And I'm not a medium or psychic by any stretch, 489 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: but I've always wondered if maybe the reason why prisons 490 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: end up being haunted, not even necessarily by people who 491 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: actually passed there, is that they feel like they deserve 492 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: to be there, Like it's kind of this, you know, 493 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: self imposed sentence. Do you think that's true? Oh yeah, 494 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: besides the residual energy of what some of these inmates 495 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: did and how they thought, such as Robert Strolud Birdman, 496 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 1: he was just he had this mentality where he liked 497 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: to see people killed. He got off on watching this. 498 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 1: But then you had some other inmates there that were 499 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: terrified of other people. I mean, al Capone was stabbed 500 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: with scissors in the showers and he didn't get away 501 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: with a lot of stuff that he did at other prisons. 502 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 1: That's why they put him in Alcatraz was because they 503 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 1: knew he was not going to get away and pay 504 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: people off, which he didn't. So he was there for 505 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 1: about four and a half years. But you have some 506 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: there was about eight people I hear that had died there. 507 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 1: Spirits are going to be there, But what's interesting about 508 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: the place is knowledge. You have the residual energy, and 509 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: some inmates like we're describing that are stuck there because 510 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: they feel they don't want to go anywhere else because 511 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: the crimes they committed. But Native Americans were there over 512 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: two hundred years ago. That was their land, and even 513 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 1: in recorded history regarding them, they talked about evil spirits, 514 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: that there was evil spirits on that land. Well from 515 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 1: looking at Alcatraz. When I got taken over in the 516 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 1: nineteen thirties, I believe, and then I got shut down 517 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 1: around nineteen sixty three, Native Americans took back that land 518 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: because there was a law, some decree that said FEDERI 519 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 1: regulated land after seven years if they don't occupied or 520 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: use it for anything, it will revert back to the 521 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 1: original owners. So it went back to the Native Americans. 522 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 1: So they moved in in the late nineteen sixties and 523 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: they started living in the cells and in various buildings, 524 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 1: and after two months they started having experience. You started 525 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: hearing yelling, some of them were getting choked and seeing 526 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 1: certain shadows. So some of got and they used the 527 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 1: term spooked because we interviewed one of the Native Americans 528 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: and he says, we got spooked and there were spooks 529 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: around here. So some of us moved to other sections 530 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: of the island to get away from it. But then 531 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: shortly after that, some of them started going crazy, they 532 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: said invastily. They were fighting amongst themselves, getting irritated, agitated, 533 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: emotional issues. And what eventually happened is in nineteen seventy two, 534 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 1: they were escorted off the island because the chaos had 535 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 1: broke up, and even some of the buildings they set 536 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: on fire, and they're like, why are you doing this? 537 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: Is supposed to bear land. So what I believe happened 538 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: is because of the spirits that have been there before. 539 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: But then also all these inmates may have psychologically started 540 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 1: affecting them. We know that happens in certain places you 541 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: go to it would affect you emotionally mentally, And they 542 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 1: left right. I mean I could see that because they 543 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 1: basically attempted to inhabit a space that never really was 544 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 1: a positive place. And I feel like that energy leaves 545 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 1: kind of quite an imprint on a location. And you 546 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 1: know the fact that it's an island in the middle 547 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: of like the Bay, and there's just it's very isolating, 548 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 1: and I mean I could see that for sure. So 549 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 1: to rewind for a moment, I do have that e 550 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 1: v P that you talked about earlier. I'd love to 551 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 1: play it really quick. And I love that it's on 552 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 1: a cassette recorder too, which is really neat Here we go, 553 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: all right, it's really cool. That's clear. Just get chills, 554 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 1: you get the goose bumps. And I remember I was 555 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 1: up at four in the morning going through all the 556 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 1: audio because the old cassette, you know, you got to 557 00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: listen to it when you find it, then you just 558 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 1: extract and put an on, you know, to record it 559 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: and send it. And I jumped up out of there 560 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 1: going no way. Yes, I was like, holy cow. I 561 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 1: mean the crew, you know, the production and even the 562 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,280 Speaker 1: network they're like, oh my god. And that got us 563 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 1: to go back there. And I remember when I went 564 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: back there, I played it over and over and over again, 565 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 1: looping it to try to antagonize the spirit. So, okay, 566 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 1: i'll fish you show yourself. Nothing happened with the people 567 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: as if we felt him getting angry, that was it. 568 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 1: So I went back into the cell by myself again, 569 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 1: and I started feeling tons of anxiety. I started feeling 570 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 1: freaked out, and I'm like, you know what, I can't 571 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:37,959 Speaker 1: take this inhere. I feel like I can't even breathe. 572 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: So I started to get up to go out of 573 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: the cell, just to get away for just a little bit, 574 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 1: and I got shoved. Now what's amazing is on the 575 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: camera we caught an e v P that says we 576 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: got you, which they made physical contact. They shoved me. Yeah, 577 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 1: they showed you. Finally they were you know, I got 578 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: some really great e vps in the Morgue area. I 579 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 1: don't have them anymore. Unfortunately it's spent so many years. 580 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 1: But then when we went back with ghost Hunters years later, 581 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 1: they wouldn't allow us into the Morgue any longer. Were 582 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:12,719 Speaker 1: you able to go in there. You know what I 583 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 1: cannot remember. I know we went into just about every 584 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,799 Speaker 1: place that was there, cell Block D S where I 585 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 1: had the Lune room, either in the shower area, I 586 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 1: picked up on some stuff. I remember I was in 587 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 1: Robert Stroud's room picking up residual audio regarding him, and 588 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 1: then all of a sudden we heard these screams because 589 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 1: there was another female psychic that was there, Gail was 590 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 1: there and our producer. They were all together shooting on 591 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 1: the opposite side of Alcatraz of the building, and we 592 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 1: heard these screams like as if terror. So we jumped 593 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: up and Richard sent it was with me and we 594 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,360 Speaker 1: chased after them, and they walk up to us like 595 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,920 Speaker 1: nothing happened. So then we're thinking, was it the seagulls, 596 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 1: because you could hear the seagulls out. We played the 597 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 1: audio back and you can compare it with the sounds 598 00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,719 Speaker 1: of the seagulls and the screams, and it is definitely 599 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 1: female screams. Yeah, the e v p s that I 600 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: got in the morgue were female like. They were very 601 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 1: clearly it was a female voice, and she sounded kind 602 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: of desperate, and I believe I actually was in there 603 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 1: with Mark and Debbie. They got it on their recorders 604 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: as well, this woman, so it makes me wonder who 605 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 1: is this woman. But there were also families who lived there, 606 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,360 Speaker 1: you know, the families of like the warden and certain 607 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: employees actually lived on the island. Children were raised there, 608 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,360 Speaker 1: which is crazy to think about. And it is isolated, 609 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,720 Speaker 1: but you do hear animals. You hear sea lions which 610 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 1: do not sound like people screaming, and you hear and 611 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: you hear, like you said, seagulls, and you'll hear like 612 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,759 Speaker 1: the occasional fog horn in the distance. But it's strange 613 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 1: to be on that island and be staring at one 614 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,759 Speaker 1: of the biggest cities in the world but be in 615 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 1: complete silence. Like I thought about how that must have 616 00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 1: felt to some of those inmates, where they had these 617 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 1: tiny windows and things. For them to be so close 618 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 1: to something so bustling and busy and alive but just 619 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 1: out of reach, like that had to have been torture 620 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:15,440 Speaker 1: for them. Oh yeah, and who even knows to underneath 621 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,959 Speaker 1: the big rock as they call it the rock, what's 622 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 1: underneath their lay lines. You've got the water frequency vibration, 623 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 1: So it's like that all that energy is contained because 624 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,960 Speaker 1: you've got the waves that are creating frequency and vibration 625 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 1: around it, surrounding it, that that doesn't dissipate. I mean 626 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 1: almost as if you've got a container and you're containing 627 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: everything in there, which could be what affected Native Americans 628 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: and they left. So for anybody understands is emotions, trauma, violence, 629 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,359 Speaker 1: events can be recorded. We call it placed memories, also 630 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: called residual energy. In the UK they called stone tape 631 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 1: theory and parasychologist discussed this. William Role identified place memory 632 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 1: is that these emotions can just be recorded there. Now, 633 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,880 Speaker 1: when you're put in that room from past impressions, you 634 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,880 Speaker 1: know you're gonna start absorbing that. You're gonna start affecting 635 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 1: your own mental state, your physical body because those frequencies 636 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,759 Speaker 1: are playing over and over and over again and you're 637 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,399 Speaker 1: sitting right in it. So for a place like that, 638 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:19,240 Speaker 1: many people might go there don't feel anything, but another 639 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 1: period of time they will. It all depends upon what's 640 00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,160 Speaker 1: playing and what they're picking up at that time. So 641 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,439 Speaker 1: it's a remarkable place, you know, and you can catch 642 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 1: e vps of spirits that are there presently, or you 643 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 1: can even catch residual audio from the past of conversations 644 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,600 Speaker 1: or events that occurred. Oh right, But and I actually 645 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:41,000 Speaker 1: never thought about that how inmates maybe put there later 646 00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,880 Speaker 1: and they're also being affected by past trauma and that 647 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,399 Speaker 1: kind of imprint of what happened there before they even 648 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 1: got there, and so that might have affected just some 649 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,160 Speaker 1: of the outcomes that way and their psychological state. I mean, 650 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,160 Speaker 1: I can't even imagine. And that also explains why, you know, 651 00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 1: people made escape attempts as well. So when we were 652 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:02,520 Speaker 1: there with Ghost Hunters, we did get a lot of 653 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,200 Speaker 1: e v P s. At one point, Jane Grant actually 654 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,880 Speaker 1: got the name of a past inmate and we're able 655 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,680 Speaker 1: to cross reference it with actual records and find record 656 00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:15,319 Speaker 1: of this person actually having been there at one point, 657 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,040 Speaker 1: which was pretty well. It wasn't any well known person. 658 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,440 Speaker 1: They didn't have they just had to look through records. 659 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,399 Speaker 1: So I thought that was really interesting. And I'm trying 660 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,080 Speaker 1: to know. It was our hundredth episode special, so that 661 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:31,239 Speaker 1: was a big deal. I remember it was like I 662 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,600 Speaker 1: think we did that. We did a live show from 663 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:38,919 Speaker 1: the actual Saturday Night Live studio Josh Gates hosted, and 664 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,680 Speaker 1: it was so awkward. It was like they would trot 665 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,800 Speaker 1: us out on stage and he would ask us questions 666 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:48,440 Speaker 1: and then they would play a clip of the investigation. 667 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 1: So it was like this live show from Saturday Live 668 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:56,719 Speaker 1: Studios and they would cut back to the investigation we've 669 00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:00,920 Speaker 1: done like two months before on our contrast. But it 670 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:02,759 Speaker 1: was special. It was a big deal. Then we made 671 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:04,440 Speaker 1: it tw two hundred episodes, but it was It was 672 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:06,719 Speaker 1: kind of interesting. But I mean we were there for 673 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,319 Speaker 1: two or three nights and I remember to stinky hearing 674 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,920 Speaker 1: footsteps on multiple occasions. We saw a shadow figure at 675 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 1: least once. It was one of the first places we 676 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 1: tried using a laser grid. Definitely voices, lots of voices, 677 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,640 Speaker 1: And so are there any other like major experiences that 678 00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:27,360 Speaker 1: you remember having, um well, besides the being pushed and 679 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 1: then also seeing the shadow person in the one room, 680 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,000 Speaker 1: which we didn't capture on camera because we were taking 681 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:38,000 Speaker 1: a break. We're all exhausted, We're seeing Yeah, there's these 682 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,440 Speaker 1: benches that were on the floor, and I forget it 683 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,719 Speaker 1: was a great hall or something, and I remember seeing 684 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,640 Speaker 1: this just shadow form go right across the wall and 685 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,719 Speaker 1: then goes away from the wall to whards three dimensional 686 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,719 Speaker 1: and it was high up too. But it was very 687 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,279 Speaker 1: vertical and then it darted right behind and said, oh 688 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:56,280 Speaker 1: my god, I just saw a shadow and they're like, well, 689 00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:58,760 Speaker 1: we're charging our batteries. They're like, you know the cameracras, 690 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:00,719 Speaker 1: like we charged, so we didn't even use it. So 691 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,440 Speaker 1: for me, that was pretty cool. The other thing was 692 00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:07,319 Speaker 1: is that I know that there was some arguing and 693 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:11,120 Speaker 1: there was some I want to say dissension or bickering 694 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,480 Speaker 1: going on, but some some of the crew, which we 695 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:15,520 Speaker 1: started getting affected, and even though my co host the 696 00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: first time we were there, we started getting affected and 697 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:19,440 Speaker 1: getting angry at each other. And I was just at 698 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,680 Speaker 1: that time, I didn't realize how the place was actually 699 00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:26,040 Speaker 1: affecting us. And I know this now of course many 700 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,920 Speaker 1: years of investigating, but it was affecting us as a 701 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,520 Speaker 1: production crew the emotions, which is one tactic that sometimes 702 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 1: these negative spirits will do is to get you out 703 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,239 Speaker 1: of there. They'll make you fight amongst yourself just to 704 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,759 Speaker 1: ruin what you're doing. So for us, that was something 705 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,040 Speaker 1: we obviously didn't discuss during the show, but it was 706 00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,279 Speaker 1: something that went on behind the scenes, and it was 707 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:46,560 Speaker 1: I mean literally we we kind of some of us 708 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 1: wanted to get off that island the very first time 709 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,040 Speaker 1: because what was happening, But we went back the second 710 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,319 Speaker 1: time we kind of prepared ourselves to fight any of 711 00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:57,560 Speaker 1: that off. It is really surreal that morning that you 712 00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:02,239 Speaker 1: leave when the sun's coming up and right they come 713 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,960 Speaker 1: and fetch you off the island and kind of look 714 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 1: back at it and you're like, what did I just do? 715 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,080 Speaker 1: Like this this is the wildest thing, and it's it's 716 00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,120 Speaker 1: very serene and peaceful, but you kind of you're like, 717 00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 1: I I got to leave. I got to literally escape 718 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:20,040 Speaker 1: when so many others did not. It's you just nailed 719 00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,080 Speaker 1: it with what you said, because both times I remember 720 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 1: just looking back at that island going, oh my god, 721 00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,839 Speaker 1: you know, how could anybody swim from that rock all 722 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,160 Speaker 1: the way to the shore Because the water's ice cold, 723 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,919 Speaker 1: plus it's very choppy. It's like there's just no way. 724 00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:35,480 Speaker 1: And I kept saying, there's sharks here, you know, there 725 00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:39,799 Speaker 1: are I know, That's what I heard. Yeah. I grew 726 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:41,920 Speaker 1: up not far from there, so you know, in the 727 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:44,720 Speaker 1: kind of moment, like when you grow up near something, 728 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:47,160 Speaker 1: you tend to not go there. I've learned, like if 729 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,839 Speaker 1: there's some sort of touristy spot like I didn't even 730 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 1: go to Alcatraz, I think until that first time I 731 00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:56,400 Speaker 1: went to investigate it. And like I said, it's just 732 00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:57,960 Speaker 1: it's always going to be one of those kind of 733 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,239 Speaker 1: profound paranormal moments for me. So I want to share 734 00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:03,200 Speaker 1: this with you too, is that we also got to 735 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,719 Speaker 1: interview one of the park rangers and also one of 736 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,719 Speaker 1: the inmates that was actually there, and he he called 737 00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:10,880 Speaker 1: the place a living hell. And when he was asked, 738 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:12,839 Speaker 1: you know what type of stuff went on, he says, well, 739 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:14,799 Speaker 1: there's a couple of things he experienced, but from some 740 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:16,719 Speaker 1: of the other inmates, and what had been passed on 741 00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:19,520 Speaker 1: over the years was which some of the stuff we 742 00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,000 Speaker 1: discussed already was they heard crying, they heard moans, they're 743 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,759 Speaker 1: yelling noises, some of them have been touched. But they 744 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,520 Speaker 1: also are doors closing, and sometimes they would hear some 745 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:29,360 Speaker 1: of the cells open and they would go look to 746 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:31,040 Speaker 1: see who who's getting out, what's going on? And they 747 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:32,959 Speaker 1: opening up for us and you know, there's nothing there. 748 00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:36,720 Speaker 1: And then also they had talked about hearing banjo sounds 749 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,200 Speaker 1: of banjo's playing or even harmonica is late at night, 750 00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:41,760 Speaker 1: but yet nobody would be playing it. So they wandered 751 00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 1: that was previous inmates that may have played something, but 752 00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,080 Speaker 1: yet that music would still echo through the halls of 753 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,000 Speaker 1: the prison. So it's a type of place you want 754 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:51,760 Speaker 1: to go there and kind of just sit and listen 755 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,279 Speaker 1: for a period of time and move from place to 756 00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:56,880 Speaker 1: place to see what you're gonna pick up, but also 757 00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,640 Speaker 1: record because obviously you know a lot of e vps 758 00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:01,600 Speaker 1: we don't here only down to hurts and it goes 759 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,400 Speaker 1: way below that, and record the entire time you're there, 760 00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:06,279 Speaker 1: and then listen to it, and you'd be surprised upon 761 00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,320 Speaker 1: playback some of the responses you get that that you 762 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:12,319 Speaker 1: weren't feeling anything, but they're right beside you. And I 763 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,120 Speaker 1: think that, you know, people might assume that they need 764 00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:17,640 Speaker 1: to do an overnight or and they do do night 765 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:21,000 Speaker 1: tours that I think there are limited amounts of people 766 00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,000 Speaker 1: on those, so that might be easier. People do want 767 00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,560 Speaker 1: to bring some equipment, but even when you go during 768 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,840 Speaker 1: the day, it's not completely packed. It's actually pretty easy 769 00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,040 Speaker 1: to kind of sneak off and do a little e 770 00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,839 Speaker 1: VP work. Or you know, they do have lots of 771 00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,920 Speaker 1: experiences on tours. You know, I've heard from tour guys, 772 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:41,000 Speaker 1: from rangers, from former employees that they've had things happen 773 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:43,160 Speaker 1: in the middle of the day with plenty of people around, 774 00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:47,360 Speaker 1: and so don't let that dissuade you. Listeners, like, definitely 775 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,120 Speaker 1: head out there if you're in the area. Obviously, Chris 776 00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:51,960 Speaker 1: and I were really lucky to do what we were 777 00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,560 Speaker 1: able to do, but you can still very much go 778 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:58,200 Speaker 1: out and have experiences. Would you go back there, Oh? 779 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,760 Speaker 1: I would. I I would love to go back now, 780 00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,920 Speaker 1: just with kind of I feel like my methodologies and 781 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:11,000 Speaker 1: ideas and theories have changed so dramatically since when I investigated, 782 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:12,399 Speaker 1: because I think that, like I said, the first time 783 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,160 Speaker 1: I was there in two thousand seven or eight, I 784 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,759 Speaker 1: think we filmed with ghost Hunters in two thousand nine 785 00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:18,959 Speaker 1: or ten, So so so we're talking like twelve years ago 786 00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:23,920 Speaker 1: under very different circumstances. So hopefully one day I'll get 787 00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,920 Speaker 1: the opportunity if there's anybody from Alcatraz listening who can 788 00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:28,839 Speaker 1: make it happen, and we'll have Chris come on as 789 00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:33,960 Speaker 1: a guest on Kendred. I would love to go back there, especially, 790 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,080 Speaker 1: like you said, I mean, ten years has passed, you know. 791 00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:39,160 Speaker 1: For me, it's like seventeen sixteen, but also some of 792 00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:42,319 Speaker 1: the I t C technology we have today. I mean, 793 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,640 Speaker 1: my god, it's like we could an actual, real time 794 00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:49,359 Speaker 1: communicate back and forth with them, which I feel would 795 00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,439 Speaker 1: be fascinating to common contact again with those spirits there, 796 00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,360 Speaker 1: I completely agree. So let's put it out in the 797 00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:59,719 Speaker 1: universe to make it happen somehow, some way, so we'll 798 00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:01,839 Speaker 1: be where we go. What are you doing? Are you're 799 00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:04,440 Speaker 1: always doing things? Please tell everyone like how they can 800 00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,800 Speaker 1: find you, how they can see you, like what projects 801 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:08,759 Speaker 1: you're working on? Well, thank you? Yeah, you guys can 802 00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:10,880 Speaker 1: just find me on social media, you know, Chris Fleming 803 00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:13,320 Speaker 1: Official or Chris Fleming ninety one, but then also Christopher 804 00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,760 Speaker 1: Fleming dot com. I'm gonna be redoing the website about 805 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,520 Speaker 1: two months. I've been behind in my own podcast because 806 00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:20,800 Speaker 1: I've had a lot go on, and I'm gonna be 807 00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:22,920 Speaker 1: getting caught up in the next couple of weeks. But 808 00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:24,800 Speaker 1: the other thing is I filmed a brand new series 809 00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,640 Speaker 1: in the UK. I'm not on Help anymore. I did 810 00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:29,760 Speaker 1: two seasons of that, moved on to this other project, 811 00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,680 Speaker 1: and this project is supposed to come out April or May. 812 00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:34,960 Speaker 1: I'm waiting to hear and it's kind of a surprise, 813 00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,240 Speaker 1: so I can't say too much about it, but shot 814 00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,640 Speaker 1: nine episodes for that and it was some of the 815 00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:43,120 Speaker 1: most beautiful, most incredible places I think I've ever been to, 816 00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:45,959 Speaker 1: So I'm really excited to see how this turns out. 817 00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:48,800 Speaker 1: Well amazing. I know I always see you on social 818 00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,200 Speaker 1: media going to fund places, so I can't wait to watch. Well. 819 00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:54,680 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for taking the time. It's nice 820 00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:56,520 Speaker 1: to catch up. I saw you briefly in Vegas and 821 00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:58,759 Speaker 1: then you were gone, so we'll have to catch up 822 00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:03,120 Speaker 1: again soon person at another event or something. Thank you 823 00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,359 Speaker 1: so much. I appreciate all the best to you, your 824 00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:13,760 Speaker 1: family and all the listeners likewise, Thank you. Chris. Alcatraz 825 00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:17,280 Speaker 1: is one of the haunts I get asked about most often. 826 00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,359 Speaker 1: At the same time, it's one of those that isn't 827 00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:24,080 Speaker 1: really investigated all that often. What we have to go 828 00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:28,000 Speaker 1: on are mostly reports given to us by employees, park rangers, 829 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,240 Speaker 1: and tourists. I'd love to get in there and really 830 00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:34,400 Speaker 1: get some answers, spend a few nights with the ghosts 831 00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:36,839 Speaker 1: in the middle of the bay, finding out just who 832 00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:40,480 Speaker 1: they are and why they linger. It's most certainly haunted 833 00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:44,799 Speaker 1: and I can absolutely understand why, but it may continue 834 00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:48,760 Speaker 1: being one of those large question marks in my paranormal career. 835 00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,879 Speaker 1: So if anyone has an inn on the rock, please 836 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:56,719 Speaker 1: drop me a line. Until then, please visit and let 837 00:46:56,719 --> 00:47:02,160 Speaker 1: me know what you find and experience. I'm Amy Bruney 838 00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:17,200 Speaker 1: and this was Haunted Road. Haunted Road is a production 839 00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:20,240 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Mankey. 840 00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:24,560 Speaker 1: The podcast is written and hosted by Amy Bruney. Executive 841 00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:29,360 Speaker 1: producers include Aaron Mankey, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. The 842 00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:32,440 Speaker 1: show is produced by rema Ill Kali and Trevor Young. 843 00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:37,719 Speaker 1: Research by Taylor Haggerdorn, Amy Bruney, and Robin Miniter. For 844 00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,640 Speaker 1: more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I heart 845 00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:44,319 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.