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Speaker 1: Also media.

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Speaker 2: Ah.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back to Behind the Bastards, a podcast about the

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Speaker 3: worst people in all of history that also hosts the eternal,

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Speaker 3: unending battle between a man and his producer who wants

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Speaker 3: him to send in the scripts of the episodes that

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Speaker 3: they're reading. As usual, I'm winning this battle, and to

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Speaker 3: celebrate the script, not the latest script, to celebrate my triumph, Matt.

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Speaker 4: Leeb Northrop Grumman got me Northrop come in.

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Speaker 2: That's right in my faith? What's up?

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Speaker 3: That's right? That's right. We are advertising for drone delivered

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Speaker 3: sex toys. Yeah, the same technology that takes out school

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Speaker 3: buses and Yemen can make you say, yeah, man, what do.

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Speaker 1: You have your soundboard? Matt?

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Speaker 2: Do I have my soundboard? I think you know the

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Speaker 2: answer to that. Yeah, I do.

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Speaker 4: This week my soundboard is all just different weird noises

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Speaker 4: that Snoop makes on the wire.

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Speaker 2: Perfect.

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Speaker 1: I feel so much joy.

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Speaker 3: Speaking of joy, we have a special Oregon themed Behind

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Speaker 3: the Bastards for you. As you're probably aware, my adopted

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Speaker 3: home state is one of the USA's great cultural hubs

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Speaker 3: for cult activity, and we are talking about an Oregon

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Speaker 3: a classic Oregon cult today and part of what we're

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Speaker 3: doing here is we are raising money for the Portland

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Speaker 3: Children's Museum. Yeah yeah, there used to be like a

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Speaker 3: Portland children's museum with like in a building and stuff.

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Speaker 3: That had to close down in twenty twenty one. I

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Speaker 3: think it was a pandemic casualty. But a group of

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Speaker 3: parents in the metropolitan area have created a traveling children's museum,

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Speaker 3: the FLIP Museum, which stands for Fun, Learning, Inspiration Play.

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Speaker 3: It's a nonprofit. It goes around to different communities in

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Speaker 3: the Portland area and provides kids there with like a

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Speaker 3: you know, head visits them sort of children's museum experience.

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Speaker 3: So we are helping them fund that this week. If

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Speaker 3: you want to donate, they've set it up so that

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Speaker 3: you can just text bastards to five oh one five five.

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Speaker 3: So if you text bastards to five oh one five five,

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Speaker 3: you'll get the information you need to donate to help

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Speaker 3: the FLIP Portland's children Museum. So that's pretty cool.

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Speaker 4: I also love that in order to donate, you have

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Speaker 4: to write the word bastards to the Children's museum.

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Speaker 3: It is it would be it is funny. It is funny.

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Speaker 3: Although no one no one still uses the term bastard

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Speaker 3: today bastards.

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Speaker 2: I love children.

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Speaker 3: You want to help some literal bastards.

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Speaker 2: These little bastards get.

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Speaker 3: Extras to five oh one five five.

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Speaker 2: Living in sin.

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Speaker 3: Yeah fuck wedlock.

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Speaker 2: That's right now, Matt.

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Speaker 3: How do you feel about sex cults?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Love them pro I've always wanted to be in one.

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Speaker 4: I got really close to being in that one in

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Speaker 4: San Francisco. Ohe the one Taste thing. It was like

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Speaker 4: the Gasmik meditation one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love

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Speaker 4: yeah man.

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Speaker 2: I was so close.

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Speaker 4: I had a meeting with the like one of the

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Speaker 4: ladies who like was recruiting, and I just spent the

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Speaker 4: whole meeting being like, I don't have any money, but

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Speaker 4: can I just go and watch yeah? Yeah, And they

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Speaker 4: said no. She started asking me to have She's like

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Speaker 4: it was like one hundred dollars too. It really was

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Speaker 4: not that much money, but I was very poor at

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Speaker 4: the time, and I was like, I don't have one

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Speaker 4: hundred dollars. They're like, can you? She like emailed me later,

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Speaker 4: how about this, ask your friends and family for one

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Speaker 4: hundred dollars. I was like, Lady, I used to do

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Speaker 4: a lot of heroin. If I start asking for one

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Speaker 4: hundred dollars. They're gonna think I'm back on this stuff.

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Speaker 2: Now I can't.

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Speaker 3: It's for a sex cult, all right, would you consider

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Speaker 3: getting back on the heroin then yeah.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, I've always wanted to be in a sex cult.

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Speaker 4: I just said I never you know, it was too

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Speaker 4: much of a coward, Matt.

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Speaker 3: I have. I believe in you. I just want to

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Speaker 3: state that here, and I believe that all of us

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Speaker 3: can benefit from the story of Oregon's first great sex

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Speaker 3: cult leader, Edmund Creffield. Now I'm gonna guess you haven't

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Speaker 3: heard of Edmund Kraff.

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Speaker 2: No, but I love that. That's a great name. That's

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Speaker 2: a guy who fucks.

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Speaker 3: Name that, that is a guy who focks names. And

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Speaker 3: that's also a guy who declares himself the second Coming

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Speaker 3: of Christ.

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Speaker 2: Name. Well yeah, I mean, oh yeah.

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Speaker 3: This is one of those stories making yourself Jesus fucking

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Speaker 3: a lot of people.

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Speaker 2: Oh so great. What a what a grift.

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Speaker 4: It's the most relatable grift too, Like I get it,

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Speaker 4: like you do what you gotta do to get that piece.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmmm, especially if it means declaring yourself the son

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Speaker 3: of God. Which there's that great documentary series on Netflix

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Speaker 3: about the Twin Flame Cult, which is like this mix

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Speaker 3: of like kind of young millennial older gen z, like

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Speaker 3: fucking pseudoscience about relationships mixed with also I this guy

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Speaker 3: who is the only person who can determine if you've

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Speaker 3: met your soulmate and Jesus, it's beautiful of it. It's

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Speaker 3: very much descended because that guy spent some time in Oregon.

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Speaker 3: From the cult we're talking about today, which is have

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Speaker 3: you ever heard the phrase holy Roller?

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Speaker 2: I have, but I don't know how this cult was.

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Speaker 3: The Holy Rollers. This is where the term comes from,

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Speaker 3: and it is a surprisingly literal term.

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Speaker 1: There's a really popular song called Holy Roller that's probably

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Speaker 1: you've heard it.

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Speaker 3: It may may in fact based on this, yeh, that's

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Speaker 3: my assumption. So if you live elsewhere in the United States,

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Speaker 3: Portland probably has primarily come to you in the form

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Speaker 3: of a mix of like riot footage in portlandyas sketches right.

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Speaker 3: It had this reputation from like the end of the

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Speaker 3: nineties to the early two thousands is like this kind

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Speaker 3: of hip place where young artist types and intellectuals would congregate.

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Speaker 3: And that's mainly because for a long time it was

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Speaker 3: like this cheapest city on the West coast now again

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Speaker 3: it's like riots and urban decay and drug use and

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Speaker 3: shit that like Fox News focuses on. And one of

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Speaker 3: the things that's weird when I got into studying this

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Speaker 3: guy who was like an early nineteen hundreds, nineteen to

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Speaker 3: three to nineteen oh six Oregon cult figure is you

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Speaker 3: get all these like news stories about what happens with him,

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Speaker 3: and they all portray Oregon the same way that like

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Speaker 3: Fox does today, Like this is one hundred and something years.

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Speaker 3: It's like this is the center of anarchy and violence

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Speaker 3: and like these people are savage, feral monsters, which I

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Speaker 3: guess is something to be proud.

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Speaker 2: I love it.

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Speaker 4: I love that Portland has never changed. Yeah, shaped the

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Speaker 4: national media.

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Speaker 5: It's always been the same place, like nineteen fucking thirteen

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Speaker 5: and someone that everyone thinks you're so fucking cool with

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Speaker 5: their beards topping down trees.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it is funny. So we'll be talking about that today. So, yeah,

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Speaker 3: we are chatting about a sex cult leader who declared

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Speaker 3: himself Jesus Christ Edmund Creffield. His actual name probably was

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Speaker 3: Franz Edmund Crefield. He is, yet again Matt a German.

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Speaker 2: Hey, hey, I love it. I come on for the

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Speaker 2: German episodes. Oh yeah, you love a German?

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Speaker 3: No, we picked I picked a cult episode for you

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Speaker 3: because I was like, we've done a lot of a

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Speaker 3: lot of real horrible genocide guys in a war. I

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Speaker 3: want something lighter, right, a little bit more fun. And

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Speaker 3: then bam, he turns out to be a German. You

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Speaker 3: just can't you can't miss him, You can't miss him.

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Speaker 2: Finally, a German who doesn't kill people. He just likes

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Speaker 2: to do sucky fucking yeah he is.

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Speaker 3: This guy's really going to rehabilitate their image.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: This is one of those cases where we have basically

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Speaker 3: nothing about this guy's early life. He was probably born

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Speaker 3: in Germany. I think it's possible he was born like Austria,

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Speaker 3: like somewhere around Germany, but like kind of unclear. We

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Speaker 3: really don't know exactly when he was born. He was

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Speaker 3: in probably in his thirties by the time the story starts,

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Speaker 3: which would put his date of birth somewhere around the

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Speaker 3: creation of Germany as a state eighteen seventy seventy one,

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Speaker 3: But we don't really know. All we can tell for

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Speaker 3: sure is that he immigrated to the United States, likely

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Speaker 3: at some point in the eighteen eighties, probably as a

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Speaker 3: teenager or a young adult. Some of his biographers postulate

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Speaker 3: that he may have moved to the US to avoid

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Speaker 3: serving in the Kaiser's army, because, like everyone had to write,

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Speaker 3: like you had to do your compulsory service in the

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Speaker 3: Kaiser's army. He may have like bounced to here because

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Speaker 3: he didn't want to do that.

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Speaker 2: I'm a lover, not a fighter.

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Speaker 3: I guess he really was. It's also possible that, like

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Speaker 3: his family was rich. Some biographers will suggest that given

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Speaker 3: that he seems to have had a degree of education

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Speaker 3: that would have been unlikely for him to have attained

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Speaker 3: if he had grown up sort of like poor. But

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Speaker 3: all of that sort of speculation. What we know for

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Speaker 3: sure is that by eighteen ninety nine, he has made

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Speaker 3: his way from wherever he landed in the US, probably

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Speaker 3: somewhere on the East coast, to Portland, Oregon.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, this is the mecca of every German immigrant who

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Speaker 4: wants to meet a nice hippie girl.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, every weirdo. Yeah. From him to eventually Stalin's granddaughter, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: to Portland calls.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I just found that out recently, and I followed her

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Speaker 4: on Instagram. I'm like dash, she's cool.

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Speaker 3: She's like, yeah, she's like a LARPer. It's kind of neat. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: she seems fun.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I don't mean LARPer in the sense we usually

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Speaker 3: use it on the show. I mean, like literally, I

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Speaker 3: think she does like live action role playing stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So we know that Crefield was a deeply religious man.

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Speaker 3: He felt called to witness for the Lord, and like

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Speaker 3: many similar young men in his position, he found himself

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Speaker 3: drawn on to the Salvation Army. Now do you know

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Speaker 3: a whole lot, Matt, about the actual history of the

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Speaker 3: Salvation Army.

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Speaker 2: I don't.

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Speaker 4: I've only ever been to a brick and mortar place

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Speaker 4: called the Salvation Army. And I bought some wooden golf clubs.

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Speaker 3: Oh good, I didn't call you for a golf guy.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well no I wasn't. I just was like there

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Speaker 4: and I was like, oh, look at all this cheap stuff.

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Speaker 4: It's like Goodwill but worse. And then there were some

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Speaker 4: golf clubs and I bought them, and I was like,

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Speaker 4: why did I do this? But yeah, I don't know

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Speaker 4: anything about the Salvation Army. I've always just assumed that

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Speaker 4: they were like a charitable organization of.

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Speaker 3: Some sort of Yes, they are. They are Probably most

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Speaker 3: people's primary contact with them is that during the holiday

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Speaker 3: season they'll be out in front of shops and stuff

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Speaker 3: with these like red buckets, you know.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, last they'll have a Santa there, sometimes.

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Speaker 3: Off on a Santa yeah, and people will point out it,

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Speaker 3: like if you're on social media, usually about this time

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Speaker 3: of year, people will be like, don't donate to the

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Speaker 3: Salvation Army. They're problematic. There's a bunch of reasons for that.

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Speaker 3: I'm not advocating for the Salvation Army, but we are

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Speaker 3: talking about their early history, which is not entirely the

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Speaker 3: same as the organization as it exists today.

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Speaker 4: Are you about to tell me that they are an

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Speaker 4: actual army and they got guns and stuff.

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Speaker 3: They don't have guns. They are organized exactly like an army.

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Speaker 3: Like that part they took very literally, so a lot

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Speaker 3: of soap beatings.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, But.

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Speaker 3: The Salvation Army was founded not long before Creffield's probable birth.

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Speaker 3: It was formed in eighteen sixty five, right as the

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Speaker 3: US Civil War is ending, by a pawnbroker who became

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Speaker 3: a minister named William booth Over and over in England. Now,

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Speaker 3: pawnbroker does not seem like a good person job to me, right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't actually know what a pawnbroker is. A

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Speaker 4: guy who owns a pawn shop.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a guy who takes your stuff if you're poor,

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Speaker 3: and gives you some money for it and maybe you

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Speaker 3: get it back later.

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Speaker 2: But like, yeah, yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: You're not inherently bad, I guess, but it definitely like

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Speaker 3: usually shady people wind up pawnbrokers.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't seem like a nice thing to do,

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Speaker 2: but I could see its usefulness.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I've known like a nice pond guy, but I

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Speaker 3: don't know. Maybe maybe we should be just shit talking pawnbrokers.

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Speaker 3: But now I think nowadays because of how much like

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Speaker 3: paid a loan, shit, it's gotten sketchy, right, So maybe

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Speaker 3: it wasn't back then. Anyway, Booth actually does not seem

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Speaker 3: to have been wildly sketchy. He was, however, super Christian,

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Speaker 3: and his life ambition he wanted to like turn the

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Speaker 3: poor of London, particularly like prostitutes and alcoholics and criminals

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Speaker 3: into good Christians. Now, there's a lot of predatory religious

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Speaker 3: figures in the last century and today you have a

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Speaker 3: similar ambition. And what made Booth notable was his under

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Speaker 3: he had this like thing he would say where he

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Speaker 3: was like, no one ever became a Christian when they

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Speaker 3: were starving, Right, So his attitude is, if you're going

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Speaker 3: to try to convert people, the best way to do

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Speaker 3: that is like doing nice things for them, right yeah,

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Speaker 3: which is like not the worst way to be an evangelist, right.

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Speaker 4: No, yeah, yeah, that works. I'm down for that, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 4: like at least on the surface.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I didn't to a deep dive on Booth,

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Speaker 3: but I haven't found any evidence that he was like

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Speaker 3: within sort of the charitable figures of his day anything,

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Speaker 3: but like a pretty reasonable example. So his focus was

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Speaker 3: he wanted to spread the gospel by improving the lives

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Speaker 3: of poor and suffering people. Now, at first he limited

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Speaker 3: this to giving food and clothing and other kind of

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Speaker 3: help to converts. But in eighteen seventy eight, like this

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Speaker 3: is at least the organization's sort of story. Who knows

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Speaker 3: if this is literally true, but the story goes that

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Speaker 3: in eighteen seventy eight, he's sitting down and he's talking

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Speaker 3: with his secretary and he uses the phrase as he's

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Speaker 3: like dictating a piece of you know, propaganda. Basically, the

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Speaker 3: Christian mission is a volunteer army. This was like what

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Speaker 3: he wanted to use as their slogan. And his son

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Speaker 3: heard him, and he's like, I'm not a volunteer. I'm

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Speaker 3: a regular or nothing. Right, Like, I'm not a volunteer soldier,

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Speaker 3: I'm like a career soldier in this Christian Army. And

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Speaker 3: that convinces Booth to change the name of his nascent

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Speaker 3: charitable organization to the Salvation Army and to adopt a

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Speaker 3: military style structure with like military style uniforms and shit,

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Speaker 3: and ranks. Like officers in the Salvation Army are called

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Speaker 3: like lieutenant captain. Booth is the general, right, Like that's

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Speaker 3: how they discuss talk about themselves. Now, that's like, I

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Speaker 3: don't know whatever, that's not particularly problematic. What is problematic

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Speaker 3: is that new converts are called captives, which I do

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Speaker 3: consider a little concerning.

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Speaker 2: That's captive is a weird thing.

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Speaker 3: That's odd.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's I guess it's like maybe it's a

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Speaker 4: critique of militarism where it's like, yeah, privates.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it's it's odd. There is definitely a degree

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Speaker 3: of like colonizer brain that is present within the Salvation

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Speaker 3: but this is a this is England in the late eighteens,

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Speaker 3: where the coolest people you could be the Salvation Army. Again,

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of ugly things about the organization today

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Speaker 3: that this is not. This episode is not about that

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Speaker 3: at the time it's founding, though again it seems to

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Speaker 3: have mostly been about like, yeah, making providing meals to

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Speaker 3: like people in London slums and shit. In a history

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Speaker 3: of the organization, Pam Mila Walker wrote, quote The Mission, however,

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Speaker 3: differed from other home missions. The authority it granted women,

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Speaker 3: its emphasis on holiness, theology and revivalist methods, it's growing independence,

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Speaker 3: and its strict hierarchical structure were all features that sharply

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Speaker 3: distinguished it from its contemporaries. The Christian Mission was created

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Speaker 3: in the midst of the working class communities it aimed

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Speaker 3: to transform, so there are some ways in which it's

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Speaker 3: kind of less problematic with some of its peers. It

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Speaker 3: gives a lot more sort of like power to women

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Speaker 3: that are in the organization. It's generally comes out of

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Speaker 3: communities as opposed to being imposed on them. That said,

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Speaker 3: it is again colored by some problematic aspects of the time,

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Speaker 3: including colonialism. In eighteen ninety booth In some of his

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Speaker 3: colleagues wrote a manifesto, a book titled in Darkest England

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Speaker 3: and the Way Out, And as you may have guessed

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Speaker 3: from that title, they're basically just comparing living conditions of

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Speaker 3: the urban poor and like Western cities like London to Africa. Quote,

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Speaker 3: as there is a darkest Africa, is that not also

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Speaker 3: a darkest England? Civilization which can breed its own Barbara,

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Speaker 3: does it not also breed its own pigmies? May we

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Speaker 3: not find a parallel on our own doors and discover

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Speaker 3: within a stone's throw of our cathedrals and palaces similar

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Speaker 3: horrors to those which Stanley has found existing in the

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Speaker 3: Great Equatorial Forest.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Chimney sweeps, She's all.

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Speaker 3: That is basically this guy's belief system. And when he

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Speaker 3: references Stanley, he's talking about Bastard's pod alumni, Henry Morton Stanley,

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Speaker 3: who again machine gun natives in Africa repeatedly not a

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Speaker 3: cool guy, but also very like popular. He writes a

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Speaker 3: lot of books about his exploration and shit that are

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Speaker 3: viral in this time. So you know, aspects of Boots

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Speaker 3: writing do kind of flirt with class politics. There's he's

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Speaker 3: he's got a lot of focus on inequality, but he

337
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Speaker 3: doesn't see the root of inequality as like the structural

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Speaker 3: factors inherent to the system that governs the British Empire.

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Speaker 3: She seeds the root of inequality as like the fact

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Speaker 3: that the poor don't have enough religion and discipline.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, they need they they need Jesus and they

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Speaker 2: need Jesus. Yeah, that's all they needed.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. The primary thing that like elevates him because that's

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Speaker 3: not an uncommon view among Christian charitable types.

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Speaker 2: In this period today.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, even today. What does kind of elevate him is

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Speaker 3: that there is this consistent focus on like and the

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Speaker 3: way that you make them disciplined is by making sure

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Speaker 3: they're not starving, first of all, which is like, no

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Speaker 3: matter what else you're doing, not a bad thing that works.

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Speaker 2: People do, in.

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Speaker 3: Fact need food. The organization the Salvation Army spreads to

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Speaker 3: the US in the late eighteen hundreds and they hold

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Speaker 3: their first kettle fundraising drives. That's the start of them,

355
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Speaker 3: like ringing bells outside of shops and shit. That all

356
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Speaker 3: begins in San Francisco, and by eighteen ninety seven the

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Speaker 3: Salvation Army is providing Christmas meals to more than one

358
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Speaker 3: hundred thousand people in the United States. So that's about

359
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Speaker 3: when Crefield joins. He's kind of important by eighteen ninety nine,

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Speaker 3: we know is what the army then, So like right

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Speaker 3: as it's sort of coming into prominence in the United

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Speaker 3: States is when he gets involved, when it's sort of

363
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Speaker 3: really snowballing as an organization. Now, whatever existed in Crefield's background,

364
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Speaker 3: he was charismatic and self confident as an adult. He's

365
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Speaker 3: really good at speaking, he's good at preaching, and his

366
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Speaker 3: superiors in the Salvation Army decide this is a guy

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Speaker 3: who might you know, be able to hold some rank here,

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Speaker 3: and they send him to their officer candidate school. Once

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Speaker 3: he's there and he's like under some scrutiny from leaders,

370
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Speaker 3: they are like, oh my god, this man is out

371
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Speaker 3: of his fucking mind.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: He cannot work with other people. He is incapable of

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Speaker 3: listening to anyone else. He has his own ideas about

375
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Speaker 3: the Bible, and if yours clashed with them, all he'll

376
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Speaker 3: do is talk over you. He cannot have a conversation

377
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Speaker 3: like yeah.

378
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Speaker 2: Just like the worst type of guy to be in

379
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Speaker 2: a school with.

380
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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, sounds fucking awful, truly terrible.

381
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Speaker 2: God wants you to fuck He fruitful, he says.

382
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Speaker 3: And when he gets out, you know, on the street

383
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Speaker 3: working for the army. One of the things they are

384
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Speaker 3: also find is that like anywhere he's stationed, donations will

385
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Speaker 3: drop because he loves ranting about his ideas, but he

386
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,000
Speaker 3: hates money. He doesn't like asking for it. And he

387
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,920
Speaker 3: started to believe that like the Salvation Army has been

388
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Speaker 3: corrupted by this focus on donations, Like it's too money

389
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Speaker 3: focused as opposed to being focused on spreading the gospel,

390
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Speaker 3: specifically his very idiosyncratic ideas about the gospel, which, like

391
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Speaker 3: he's not wrong. One of the valid, very valid criticisms

392
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Speaker 3: of the Salvation Army is that, like it is really

393
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Speaker 3: much about the money, you know, about getting in those donations.

394
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Speaker 3: So he's not alone in finding that frustrating. But he's like,

395
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Speaker 3: it's frustrating because what they should be doing is telling

396
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Speaker 3: everyone what I believe about the bibe.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and have we found have we found out

398
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Speaker 4: what he believes that's different from what they believe.

399
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Speaker 3: Now, not yet we are about he's kind of forming

400
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Speaker 3: those ideas right now, right definitely, one of his beliefs

401
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,480
Speaker 3: at this time is that like Christianity has been corrupted

402
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,720
Speaker 3: by modernity. Right, He's not a doesn't like electric lights,

403
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,240
Speaker 3: doesn't like all the fancy new clothes people are wearing,

404
00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:57,560
Speaker 3: doesn't like you.

405
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Speaker 4: Know, the bicycles with the big wheel in the bicycle

406
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Speaker 4: at the bottom.

407
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Speaker 3: Really not a bicycle fella. That is going to be

408
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,480
Speaker 3: a factor in the story, Matt, you've you've predicted it

409
00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:09,040
Speaker 3: so well.

410
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Speaker 2: It's a story about Portland, Oregon.

411
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Speaker 3: Of course, the bicycles. So Creffield gets moved from Portland

412
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Speaker 3: to the Dows, which is Oregon's second city with a

413
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,280
Speaker 3: name that sounds kind of like Dallas.

414
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Speaker 2: Uh.

415
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Speaker 3: And then he gets the other one being Dallas, Oregon.

416
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Speaker 2: Uh.

417
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Speaker 3: And then he has moved to McMinnville to Hepner and

418
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:32,000
Speaker 3: everywhere he goes donations just plummet. He is a horrible

419
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Speaker 3: person to have on your team if you're a Salvation

420
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Speaker 3: Army guy. Some sources I've read suggests he also has

421
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Speaker 3: like a moral issue with taking money, but a big

422
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Speaker 3: part of it seems to be that he knows the

423
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Speaker 3: money is going not just he's it's going to feeding people.

424
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Speaker 3: And when the Salvation Army like does these big like

425
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,400
Speaker 3: feeding people drives or whatever. When they have these big events,

426
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Speaker 3: they're kind of secular, right, We wouldn't consider them secular.

427
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:59,800
Speaker 3: But Craffield considers them secular, right, right, And he says

428
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Speaker 3: this in an interview with a reporter sometime after leaving

429
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:05,600
Speaker 3: the Salvation Army. Quote. While in the Salvation Army, I

430
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:07,439
Speaker 3: had the light, but I did not have the power.

431
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,800
Speaker 3: I was teaching his works, but was still in the darkness.

432
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Speaker 3: I did not experience the fullness of His power until

433
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Speaker 3: I had tarried long before God in prayer. Then the

434
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,160
Speaker 3: light came. The Holy Ghost told me that I should

435
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,119
Speaker 3: live a life of pure faith. I was to do

436
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:21,080
Speaker 3: everything by faith. I could no longer work for the

437
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,760
Speaker 3: Army because it's people are not entirely of God. I

438
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,159
Speaker 3: couldn't I take part in soliciting for funds. I was

439
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,520
Speaker 3: directed by the Holy ghosts not to solicit for money.

440
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:30,560
Speaker 3: It is not right to hold ice cream socials and

441
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:34,040
Speaker 3: other social gatherings where money is taken.

442
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,080
Speaker 2: Just knocking ice cream out of homeless people's hands. I

443
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:42,160
Speaker 2: need Yeah, No, God doesn't want it. He sounds fun, man,

444
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,680
Speaker 2: he sounds like it's gonna work out good for him.

445
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,000
Speaker 3: You know what God does want though, Matt Leeb, what

446
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,440
Speaker 3: does he want? He wants you to buy the products

447
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 3: and services that support this podcast.

448
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,920
Speaker 2: Oh that's what I thought God wanted. Good thing. I'm

449
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:56,920
Speaker 2: gonna buy them.

450
00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:01,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, check it out. Give God, you know, like thirty bucks.

451
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,159
Speaker 3: He needs it. God is hard up Now is it

452
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,159
Speaker 3: possible that God just wants to buy some molly and

453
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 3: needs some cash?

454
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 2: Sure? You know, I would say, but who are we

455
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:11,800
Speaker 2: to judge?

456
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,720
Speaker 3: Got he works hard? Why should he take molly this weekend?

457
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 4: I have always said, God, you work hard, you gotta

458
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:22,120
Speaker 4: play hard. Yeah, get some Mollie, massage your friends, Suck

459
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 4: on one of those pacifiers.

460
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,680
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, go see V and V nation. God loves

461
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,920
Speaker 3: V being a being ancient and born before time itself.

462
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:46,919
Speaker 3: He's a big v V nation man. Here's ads. Ah,

463
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 3: we're back. This is behind the Bastards and again we

464
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 3: are this episode raising money for the Portland Children's Museum

465
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 3: to donate text Bastards to five oh one five five

466
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 3: and we're back to the store. Back to the tale.

467
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 2: So let's get back into it talking about.

468
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 3: God, talking about the g Man, not Gordon Liddy, but God.

469
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 3: So Creffield gets tired of working for the Salvation Army

470
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 3: and the Savation. Salvation Army. By the way, very tired

471
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 3: of Edmund Craffield.

472
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've had about enough of his shit.

473
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,199
Speaker 4: Anyways, He's not even good at the job, which is

474
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,120
Speaker 4: like literally just being guy with bell getting out the money.

475
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 3: Can't do it, can't shut up long enough to do it.

476
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,919
Speaker 3: So he bounces and he joins the Pentecostal Mission and

477
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 3: Training School in Salem, Oregon. This is the project of

478
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,400
Speaker 3: a guy named Martin Ryan, and it's it's basically it's

479
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 3: a fundamentalist Christian like school, right like that, that's a

480
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 3: way to look at it. In their book Holy Rollers,

481
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 3: Teama Cracken and Robert Blodgett described the school this way.

482
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 3: Ryan's group was part of a holiness movement that taught

483
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 3: the Bible in its entirety from the first word of

484
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,120
Speaker 3: Genesis to the last word of Revelation. And if any

485
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 3: man shall take away from the words of the Book

486
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,679
Speaker 3: of this Prophecy, God shall take away his part out

487
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 3: of the Book of Life, which is Revelations twenty two nineteen. Basically,

488
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,199
Speaker 3: if you edit the Bible at all, or don't take

489
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 3: it all literally, that's how they interpret it. If you

490
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 3: don't take every word of the Bible literally, God will

491
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 3: light you on fire, and shit, God, damn, it's so

492
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 3: boring though it is, it's super boring. It's such it's.

493
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 2: A long, boring book with too many fucking words.

494
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 3: Oh my god, so many words more than there needed

495
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 3: to be.

496
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 2: And I don't care who begat who Just get to

497
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 2: the fucking.

498
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna be gat my fist in your

499
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 3: fucking face. If you don't get along with the good

500
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 3: parts of this shit.

501
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 2: I'm going to take out my big gat and just wow, nice, nice,

502
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 2: I'm as good.

503
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,639
Speaker 3: So during his time with Ryan, Crefield becomes aware of

504
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 3: a new doctrine, which is like a new sort of

505
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,439
Speaker 3: like set of religious teachings, and as a part of that,

506
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 3: he becomes aware of the fact that God has chosen

507
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 3: him specifically, he is the Lord's elect, his new prophet

508
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 3: on earth. Now that's a great thing to learn about yourself.

509
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 2: That's a real quick, real quick turnaround on this guy.

510
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 4: I mean, I knew he was, like, you know, a

511
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 4: little bit pedantic and maybe uh, confrontational, but now he's

512
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 4: immediately like, you.

513
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 2: Know what I am God prophet?

514
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 3: Yeah? Okay, yeah, So you know, speaking of being God,

515
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,679
Speaker 3: the prophet I am. I don't know, Sophie. Are we

516
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 3: allowed to keep doing the Jesus Christ of podcasting bits

517
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 3: or did we get weird messages over those? No?

518
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 1: But I hate it?

519
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:31,359
Speaker 3: Okay, well then we'll keep doing it.

520
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 2: I don't know what it is, let's do it. You

521
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 2: are the Jesus Christ of I.

522
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 3: Am the Lord and Savior of podcasting. That's that's obviously.

523
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: Well, I'm your dad, bitch, And that's where.

524
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 3: I know, Sophie. I feel like you are the Holy

525
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 3: Spirit because you're mysterious. Uh. And if there, if there

526
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 3: is a father God, the father of podcasting, unfortunately it's

527
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 3: Joe Rogan.

528
00:25:56,320 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course. You know what's.

529
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 3: Gnostic about this. Joe Rogan is like the evil fake God.

530
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:07,160
Speaker 3: And yeah, that's that's right.

531
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're the You're the real

532
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 4: demmy urge god. And again, I'm Mary Magdalen. I'm prostitute

533
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 4: and I just want to rub oil on your feet.

534
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 4: I'm more of a feat guy in the Bible. Yeah,

535
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:23,880
Speaker 4: so I'm just gonna if I could just do that.

536
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:30,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, Robert speaking of feet, Nope, not speaking of feet, guys.

537
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 3: So we're talking about Edmund Creffield, sorry, who has just

538
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 3: had it revealed to him that he is God's elect

539
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 3: And I found an interesting article by Sophie co submitted

540
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 3: to the Young Historians twenty seventeen conference hosted by Portland

541
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 3: State University that describes his next movements in this period.

542
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 3: After separating from the Salvation Army, Crefield moved around to

543
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 3: different cities preaching his radical take on Christianity, most of

544
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 3: which were places he had previously worked as a soldier

545
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 3: and had connections to people from cities like the Dows

546
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,439
Speaker 3: in McMinnville dismissed Craffield for being too extreme, leading to

547
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 3: his eventual arrival in Corvallis in nineteen oh three. Although

548
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 3: the population was fairly poor, the community was close knit

549
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 3: and dominantly religious. These characteristics, as well as any connections

550
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 3: he gained in the Salvation Army, likely prompted Creffield's faith

551
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 3: in the people of Corvallis. Now, do you know anything

552
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,120
Speaker 3: about Corvallis.

553
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 2: Matt Leeb Literally nothing, nobody.

554
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 3: Does, Nobody fucking does. It is like one of the

555
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,439
Speaker 3: most boring towns in this whole state. This is the

556
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,199
Speaker 3: only thing that ever happened there. Very pretty it's in

557
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 3: the western part of Oregon. It's kind of right in

558
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 3: between Portland and Eugene. Yeah, and in this period. Today,

559
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 3: I think Corvallis is like, you know, like many sort

560
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 3: of less dense chunks of Oregon. But back then it

561
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 3: is dirt poor. Right, everyone who lives there, almost everyone

562
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,880
Speaker 3: who lives there are these like subsistence farmers who lead

563
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 3: very lean lives, full of hard work. Right, is a

564
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 3: tight knit community. There are two newspapers, and since they are,

565
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 3: it really lets you know, like the how much how

566
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 3: similar newspapers were to like tweeting and TikTok in the

567
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 3: era before those things. Because the newspapers in Corvallis they

568
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 3: report absolutely everything that happens there. And I am talking

569
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 3: about the most pedestrian shit imagine. Oh yeah, Blodgett McCracken

570
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 3: ride quote. Everything was reported. Everything go out of town.

571
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 3: It was reported a swift journey on a bicycle was

572
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 3: made Saturday by Frank Hurt. He went from Corvallis to

573
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,199
Speaker 3: Oregon City in six hours. It is not likely that

574
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 3: the trip was ever made by wheel in so short

575
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 3: a time. That's from the Times. In nineteen oh one,

576
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 3: a man rode a bicycle.

577
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 4: I just love the journalism in a small town is

578
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 4: just the most nosy neighbor.

579
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he has a printing press.

580
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 3: I do want to do like a like a modern

581
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 3: day like with like the same like Woodward and Bernstein level,

582
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 3: like a skullduggery and like drama that you get from

583
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 3: like Watergate era journalism movies, but about stuff like this,

584
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 3: Like a guy gets a call in the night from

585
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 3: like a shadowy figure. Man rode his bicycle from Corvallis

586
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 3: to Oregon City today, pull the other thread. He gets

587
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 3: car bombed trying to report on it.

588
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 4: To meet with someone in an underground garage. He gives

589
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 4: them a file and the file is just someone like.

590
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 3: A grainy picture of a man on the giant bicycle.

591
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 2: I think he's visiting family.

592
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 3: Oh, I love so the problem you know, Crayfield picks

593
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 3: Corvallis because it's the small town. Everyone's very religious. He's like,

594
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 3: it's kind of isolated. You obviously want that as a

595
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 3: cult leader, and like these people will believe anything, so

596
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 3: like these are these are my ideal sort of provincial

597
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 3: rubes to join the cult that I'm going to get.

598
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 3: They'll buy what I'm saying about being the new prophet

599
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 3: of Jesus Christ. The downside of this place for him,

600
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 3: which he doesn't seem to realize at the time, is that, like,

601
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 3: because it's such a titan at town, Corvalis is the

602
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 3: kind of place where people are open to burying bodies

603
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 3: for their neighbors, right, which presents a danger for coultreats. Right, Like,

604
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 3: that's not necessarily the best place to start fucking around.

605
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 3: You get kind of lost in a city, like you

606
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 3: can't in Corvallis.

607
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 2: Yeah.

608
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, the idea that like this small town, literally everyone

609
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 4: knows where the bodies are buried except for you.

610
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, not necessarily your safest bet.

611
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's kind of bad.

612
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 3: So, like a lot of the other cult leaders we've studied,

613
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 3: the Twelve Tribes, which we did earlier this year, comes

614
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 3: to mind. Crefield starts out when he first moves to Corvallis,

615
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 3: he's not giving the whole span of like what his

616
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 3: beliefs have become. He starts preaching relatively popular Christian doctrine,

617
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 3: and he's still he's identifying himself as a prophet, but

618
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 3: he's basically saying, like I'm a messenger who's and God

619
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 3: talked directly to me. But he's still he's like giving,

620
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 3: he's respectful of like the local churches. He's not trying

621
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 3: to get in their way. He's not trying to like

622
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 3: out himself as somebody who's like running against all of

623
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 3: the existing kind of religious infrastructure in the town.

624
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 2: Right.

625
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 3: More of what he's saying is that, like, hey, I

626
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 3: have this close connection to God, and if you listen

627
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 3: to what I'm saying, I can help guide you to

628
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 3: spiritual perfection. That's the term he uses a lot, And

629
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 3: this is kind of his key innovation, right, which is

630
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 3: that he's not just saying I am speaking with God,

631
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 3: but I can teach you how to receive direct messages

632
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 3: from God, right, Oh, which God, Yeah, it gives people

633
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 3: a little bit more to aspire to rather than just

634
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 3: listening to you, Like they get to get messages from God.

635
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 3: And what it's also going to mean is that, like

636
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 3: if Crefield's not around to talk to them, like if

637
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 3: he's in prison and stuff, the cult can perpetuate because

638
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 3: these people are also talking to God themselves.

639
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 2: Right.

640
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 3: So it's a smart it's a smart way to set

641
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 3: this shit up. He begins to claim, you know, once

642
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 3: he's got people following him, showing up every week to

643
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 3: listen to him preach that once everyone's ready, like, once

644
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,959
Speaker 3: people have been following his guidance enough, they'll be added

645
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 3: to a holy roll in heaven where God lists all

646
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 3: of his best friends.

647
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 2: Right, and this is oh, that's what the role is.

648
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 3: One theory as to where that came from.

649
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 2: Right.

650
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 3: The other theory is that it has something to do

651
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,959
Speaker 3: with the specific nature of how they are worshiping when

652
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 3: he's holding these big preaching sessions. And I'm going to

653
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 3: quit from Blodget McCracken again. For hours, Craffield kept his

654
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 3: flock in a state of frenzied excitement. He had them rolling, praying, rolling, wailing, rolling, groaning, rolling, singing, rolling, clapping, rolling, stomping, rolling, tumbling,

655
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 3: rolling and rolling and rolling for hours on end. He

656
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 3: had them rolling twelve hours if it was a short service,

657
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 3: twenty four hours if it was a typical service. All

658
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 3: heads were spinning because they were glorying in heaven and.

659
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 2: So what the fuck?

660
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, He's literally got them rolling around on the ground

661
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 3: for twenty four hours at a stretch.

662
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 2: And part of what's power? I get that, Yeah, I

663
00:32:57,880 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 2: kind of want that.

664
00:32:58,920 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 3: Who wouldn't want that?

665
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 4: I would love to just make a bunch of piggies

666
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 4: roll in front of me, Is that right?

667
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 3: Yeah? Oh for god, I have to feel Yeah, that's

668
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 3: probably what was going on in like Andy Kaufman's head

669
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 3: when he made that audience like walk with him to

670
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,239
Speaker 3: get ice cream, where he's like, I could take this

671
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 3: much further.

672
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's unlimited power, just takes it.

673
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, they occupy a police data.

674
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think also what's going on here? You know,

675
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 3: like little little little kids when they find out if

676
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 3: they can like spin around, they get kind of dizzy.

677
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 3: They yeah, a lot. It's like getting high at the

678
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 3: first way.

679
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 2: Totally is exactly what I was thinking, is like, is

680
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 2: he getting these high rolling.

681
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 3: Because like, yeah, they're They're like especially if you're not eating,

682
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 3: you're starving yourself and rolling around a bunch, Yeah, you're

683
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 3: gonna feel weird.

684
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 2: You know, you're gonna become susceptible.

685
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, and this kind of like some of this

686
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 3: is classic cold shit, right, the whole starving people for

687
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 3: periods of time. A lot of colts do this because

688
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 3: it makes you worse a decision making. I haven't heard

689
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 3: of anyone having people like roll around on the ground

690
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 3: hours to get them all buzz. That's kind of.

691
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 2: Cool, that's mk roltra.

692
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's how we're gonna get you to fucking

693
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:11,240
Speaker 4: give us the goods.

694
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 3: That's kind of a credible theory as to where the

695
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 3: name Holy rollers comes from, too, is like, oh, yeah,

696
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 3: I get why you would call about that. They're literally

697
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 3: worshiping by rolling around on the ground.

698
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 2: Yeah makes sense.

699
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, Now, this kind of all consuming worship is consistent

700
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 3: with what Crefield was starting to claim about his God

701
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,839
Speaker 3: inspired take on Christianity. He believed, and he would argue,

702
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 3: God had told him that true Christians should not have

703
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,879
Speaker 3: time for anything else in their lives but worship. Right,

704
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,240
Speaker 3: anything else you're doing farming, raising your kids, literally, anything

705
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 3: but worship is a waste of time and of the devil. Right,

706
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 3: So if you're you know, the upside of that is

707
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 3: that it keeps everyone focused on him the whole time.

708
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 3: The downside is that spending a full day or more

709
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 3: rolling on the ground is not conducive to like growing

710
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 3: the food you need to survive.

711
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,359
Speaker 4: Right right, Yeah, Subsistence farmers like they can only roll

712
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 4: for a little bit and then they're Gonta get back

713
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 4: to the farming.

714
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 3: They don't have a lot of rolling time. But it's

715
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,320
Speaker 3: also the other thing we just noted, how starving yourself

716
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 3: and rolling around a bunch gets you kind of in

717
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 3: this altered state that makes you more suggestible. That's not

718
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 3: the only thing going on. It's also fun, right his worship.

719
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 3: They're not just rolling around. They're like rolling and dancing

720
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 3: and like flinging their bodies around and like shrieking screaming.

721
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 3: They are expressing themselves and their feelings both through like

722
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 3: vocalization and through physical movements. And these are people not

723
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 3: only are these all subsistence farmers, which is a difficult

724
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 3: and often brutal way to exist, especially in nineteen oh three.

725
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 3: This is a super strict Victorian prudish society that is

726
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 3: anti women expressing themselves. That's anti many different facets of

727
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 3: self expression we consider like normal today, and he's giving

728
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 3: them an outlet like that's it's fun. People like being

729
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 3: in Crefield's cult a lot better than they likely dying

730
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 3: on a farm in rural lord Agon.

731
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 2: You know, like yeah, this is like uh, you know,

732
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 2: peloton classes or typo or something.

733
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 3: There's a definite element of peloton type like that, that

734
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 3: kind of ship here. And most of the people joining

735
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 3: his cult are women, right, Yeah, some of them are poor,

736
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 3: but all of them feel like they're missing something like

737
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 3: in part what you get from all these people like

738
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 3: they seem bored with their lives because their life fucking sucky.

739
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 4: Seventeen Yeah, guy shows up, hot fucking German guy shows up,

740
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 4: is like, hey, we're rolling this week.

741
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they're going to be like sure, yeah, I

742
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 3: don't want.

743
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 2: To go back. Yeah. This is a time when like

744
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 2: a game was like having a wheel and a stick.

745
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, closing your eyes and pretending your brother

746
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 3: didn't die of consumption, you know, like that's a fun

747
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 3: parlor game for us.

748
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, or reading one of two newspapers that are keeping

749
00:36:57,680 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 4: tabs on your neighbors.

750
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 3: You hear about this bi called shit.

751
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 2: So uh.

752
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 3: Prefield preached a sense of separation from the profane world,

753
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 3: but he also utilized the tactics that he'd learned out

754
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 3: in it, and chief among them was hypnotism. Right, we

755
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 3: don't have as much to tail about this as I'd like,

756
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 3: but it is theorized that he took classes in hypnotism.

757
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 3: He's basically certain that he did because he's using a

758
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 3: lot of like at the time, hypnotism is like a

759
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 3: viral meme spreading through society. It's super hip, and a

760
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 3: lot of what he's doing in his speeches is like

761
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 3: kind of borders on hypnotism, right, Like, he seems to

762
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 3: be very familiar with that and utilizing that as well,

763
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,839
Speaker 3: which helps is part of why he's got this popularity

764
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:43,359
Speaker 3: early on.

765
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, so them roll around, I mean that shit is

766
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 4: fucking you know that. Yeah, feels kind of hypnotic. Instead

767
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 4: of a watch swinging back and forth, it's your head.

768
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so you know this, Dozens and dozens flock

769
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 3: to his banner, but you know, dozens hundreds more of

770
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 3: people in Corvallis are angry.

771
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 2: Right.

772
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 3: He's described in newspaper editorials as a hypnotist. They write

773
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 3: that his followers are quote dead to all human sympathies.

774
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, I mean they're doing what I would if

775
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 2: I saw this in the wild, I a modern person

776
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 2: would say they're witches. Yeah, yes, so I could see

777
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 2: like the rest.

778
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 4: Of the town or the neighboring towns being like, what

779
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 4: the fuck is happening here?

780
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:31,839
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, this disturbs a lot of people. Sure, and

781
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 3: it's also like the idea.

782
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 2: You know.

783
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 3: Part of why I'm not sure exactly how solid the

784
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,439
Speaker 3: hypnotism claims are is that the journalists at the time

785
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 3: use this a lot, and a large reason why they

786
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 3: describe him as a hypnotist is because they have to

787
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 3: explain how all of these young women are drawn to

788
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 3: him while in their opinion, he's ugly, right.

789
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 2: He's not even that hot, and they all are all out.

790
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 3: I'm going to quote from Sophie Coe's right up here quote.

791
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 3: Edmund Craffield was described as being physically unattractive and homely,

792
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:09,359
Speaker 3: but very persuasive and attractive for other reasons. His personality

793
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 3: was said to be magnetic. Many claimed that he had

794
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 3: power overwhere others, especially women, that put them under a spell.

795
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,479
Speaker 3: Now those other reasons we will get into a little

796
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:22,240
Speaker 3: bit later, but not quite yet for now. The final

797
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 3: piece of the Craffield puzzle, and the real bit of

798
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 3: genius in his cult, was that he doesn't just promise

799
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:31,880
Speaker 3: conversations with God. He added a ticking clock. Right, you

800
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 3: can connect directly with God. He can talk to you personally.

801
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 3: But there's only so many names that we have space

802
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 3: for on the holy role. Right, God's like one of

803
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 3: those cell phone plans in the ninety NINETI where you

804
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:45,360
Speaker 3: got to like pick your five friends to text with

805
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 3: for free. Like that's that's how speaking with God works.

806
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, God doesn't do roaming data like God. You have

807
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 2: to be in the plan.

808
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:00,959
Speaker 4: God's plan is a very very cheap cell phone plays.

809
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love.

810
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 3: And you know who else offers cheap cell phone plans

811
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:11,320
Speaker 3: all the products and services at one of them? Yeah, definitely,

812
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:13,240
Speaker 3: at least one of them does in fact.

813
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 2: Uh oh good.

814
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, so at least one, at least one, sometimes two,

815
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 3: sometimes multiple.

816
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 4: Cell phone services fighting in the cell phone Yeah.

817
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:34,720
Speaker 6: Anyway, ah, we're back.

818
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 3: Hey, we're talking about Eddie C. So many of the

819
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 3: first members of Crefield's cult are Salvation Army volunteers who

820
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 3: saw his personal and astatic relationship with God as much

821
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 3: preferable to acting as foot soldiers for donations. Now, initially,

822
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,359
Speaker 3: he would allow you to kind of be in his

823
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,359
Speaker 3: flock and also stay a member of the Salvation Army

824
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 3: or stay a member of one of the other churches

825
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 3: that are in town in Corvallis. But soon he starts

826
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 3: to warn his growing flock that other Christians are not trustworthy, right,

827
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 3: and they have to start isolating themselves. He preached, quote,

828
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 3: when you get him the Holy Ghost, you'll bring consternation

829
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 3: wherever you go. Peace ceases when you make your appearance.

830
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 3: The so called Christians of the modern churches of today

831
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 3: rise up in arms against you and call you a

832
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 3: disturber of the peace, charging you with the grime of

833
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:26,800
Speaker 3: breaking up their churches. And he absolutely went deliberately about

834
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:27,760
Speaker 3: breaking up churches.

835
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 2: Right.

836
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 3: First, he uses his familiarity with the organization to pull

837
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 3: in Salvation Army volunteers, and then he would like preach

838
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 3: to people outside of churches when they were in the

839
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 3: mood to receive God, and once they start getting interested

840
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 3: in his idea of this direct converse connection with God.

841
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 3: He introduced a question, right, if your old church, or

842
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:48,240
Speaker 3: if the Salvation Army was really holy, wouldn't you already

843
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 3: be talking with God? Right, you've already accepted that this

844
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,439
Speaker 3: is the goal, and you're not, which means these must

845
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 3: be false churches.

846
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:56,879
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, he makes a great point.

847
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 3: He makes a solid point.

848
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, people got to go to church every sum They

849
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 4: don't talk to God once, or God at least doesn't

850
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 4: talk Now BacT.

851
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 3: No, but you take mushrooms. Boom, you're right there, baby.

852
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 4: Take mushrooms. Talk to the trees, dog bill, give you

853
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 4: some life advice.

854
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, So perhaps it says more about how boring

855
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 3: Corvalis is than anything. But this pitch worked on quite

856
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 3: a few people. The Gazette, a local paper, wrote this

857
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 3: in December of nineteen oh two. The Salvation Armies people

858
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,439
Speaker 3: were not entirely of God, or so Crefield, God's elect

859
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:31,800
Speaker 3: had told them. So all of God's annointed deserted the army.

860
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 3: The big drum of the Salvation Army is no longer

861
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 3: in evidence about eight o'clock each evening, and tambourines are

862
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 3: very cheap. The army has gone to its religious waterloo.

863
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,319
Speaker 3: It had met a body of divine healers, the Army

864
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 3: of Holiness or something, and went over to the enemy.

865
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,800
Speaker 3: True religion of a respectable character, a religion that is reasonable,

866
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 3: that commands at least the respect of the greatest thinkers

867
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 3: and a better class of people, is the last thing

868
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 3: on earth that should be treated in a contemptuous manner.

869
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,320
Speaker 3: But a holy show that is a burlesque on religion

870
00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 3: is a bad thing for any community, as it has

871
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 3: not taken seria and consequently lays the foundation for the

872
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:04,800
Speaker 3: youth of the land to scoff at religion of any form.

873
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 3: There should be reason and moderation in all things. There

874
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 3: may be efficacy in prayer. Who can say there is not,

875
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:11,839
Speaker 3: But it must be the prayer of a sane mind

876
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 3: and a reasonable being. The prayer of a religious fanatic

877
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 3: cannot avail much. Sho you suck? Just that is by way.

878
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 3: This story is not a story of like the good

879
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 3: people of Corvallis and this evil cult leader. Everyone sucks

880
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,760
Speaker 3: in this story, right, Everyone is like, they're all pieces

881
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 3: of shit. So is this reporter right being like our

882
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 3: Victorian churches that teach you to hate your penis, you know,

883
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 3: like that.

884
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:36,760
Speaker 2: They don't even punch their balls in that church.

885
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they're not locking themselves inside a chastity belt.

886
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 3: Listen to this not telling them that you can have fun?

887
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 4: Yeah no, this is like it reminds me of what

888
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,439
Speaker 4: was that wild wild country where you like learn about

889
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:55,839
Speaker 4: the Rajniche and then they do interviews with the townsfolk and.

890
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:57,359
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't know if I like them either.

891
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:00,359
Speaker 3: Yes, I would have poisoned them too.

892
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 2: Fuck.

893
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I would have did some ground beavers in

894
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 4: their water supply as well.

895
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, why not? Why not? I do that anyway just

896
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 3: for fun.

897
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hilarious to those people don't get a life

898
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 2: beavers in their water A beaver.

899
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, scientists recommend at least you drink three beavers per year.

900
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 2: So right, yeah, that's a good science. Move on.

901
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 3: So one of Craffield's first converts was a young woman

902
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 3: named Maud Hurt, which is kind of a kind of

903
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 3: a cool name, like if you were doing like a

904
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 3: fucking Warren Ellis comic about like a badass female preacher

905
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 3: who was like killing I don't know, gangsters in nineteen

906
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:41,320
Speaker 3: oh four, probably want to Hurt. Yeah, cool name, good stuff. Yeah.

907
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 3: So one of her friends told a journalist later that

908
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 3: from an early age, Maud's chief aim had been quote

909
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 3: to become nearly as perfect as a Christian could be,

910
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 3: And for a time she practiced this by like she

911
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:54,719
Speaker 3: was always the person if like you were sick, she'd

912
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 3: go over to your house, she'd watch you, she'd take

913
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 3: care of your kids, if you had like a harvest

914
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 3: and stuff. She's just a very nice, giving person.

915
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 2: Now that's beginner level. Shit, yeah, let's get to the

916
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:06,959
Speaker 2: real Christian ship.

917
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 3: Well, when she's fourteen, she decides to do that. She

918
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 3: joins the Salvation Army, where she meets Creffield, and very

919
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 3: soon thereafter is like, I'm out. You know, the Salvation

920
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:19,839
Speaker 3: Army is too focused on money. I want to meet

921
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 3: this guy who is is kind of yeah, yeah, I

922
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:28,319
Speaker 3: like it. I'm getting in there.

923
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 4: I'm picturing Willem Dafoe, but based on the way they're

924
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:32,760
Speaker 4: writing about him.

925
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 3: Is just like for another reason too, Yes, he would

926
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 3: be the thing. He'd be the right guy to play this,

927
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 3: or at least Willem Dafoe like circa Boondock Saints, we

928
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:43,840
Speaker 3: have a great guy to play this. So you do

929
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 3: get similar stories from other converts, as this passage from

930
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 3: the Holy Rulers makes clear. One of Creffield's most ardent

931
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,760
Speaker 3: followers was Samson Levins. Samson, thirty five, the second youngest

932
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:55,760
Speaker 3: of nine children, had been a private in the Spanish

933
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,359
Speaker 3: American War and was now a logger. He had a

934
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 3: deep interest in the Methodist Church, he said, but when

935
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,759
Speaker 3: it failed to meet his heart's desire, he joined Crefield's church.

936
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 3: Some people think ours is a strange doctrine. But John

937
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 3: Wesley was attacked by mobs when he founded the Methodist Church,

938
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 3: Samson said, adding, of course the church now is not

939
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 3: as he John Wesley left it, So he's like, I

940
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,280
Speaker 3: was already a part of this kind of fringe movement

941
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 3: that was founded by a nut. And you know the

942
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 3: fact that Crefield's is weird is just makes him seem

943
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 3: more legitimate to me. Right, Yeah, well, the Methodist Church

944
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:28,959
Speaker 3: has gotten too normal. Now it's time to get weird again.

945
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

946
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 3: Now we see this same pattern over and over again.

947
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 3: A man or a woman of belief joins the church,

948
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 3: but they don't feel spiritually sated. Right, Maud doesn't feel

949
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 3: sated by the Salvation Army. This fucking dude Levins doesn't

950
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 3: feel sated from the Methodist Church, and so they leave

951
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,840
Speaker 3: to find something more radical. And it's not just radical,

952
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:51,280
Speaker 3: but it's interesting. I cannot overemphasize how much the appeal

953
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,959
Speaker 3: of being in Crefield's cult is based on the fact

954
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,839
Speaker 3: that life is boring as shit outside of it.

955
00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 4: Right, you have to reckon with the fact with how

956
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 4: much this place fucking fucked.

957
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:08,280
Speaker 3: Yes, that is a big sh So in mid nineteen

958
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 3: o three, the city of Corvallis, officially forbade Criffield and

959
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:15,840
Speaker 3: the Holy Rollers from hosting meetings in Corvallis. Exiled, Edmund

960
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 3: found an island a few miles outside of town. Oh yeah, man,

961
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 3: we're doing it. We're doing it. We're getting doing island as.

962
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 2: We get on the water. That's what gets weird.

963
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's how you That's when colts get good.

964
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 2: That's when colts really find themselves.

965
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:30,840
Speaker 3: Folks.

966
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 2: There is an island in a place where to leave

967
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 2: means to drown.

968
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 3: There is an island right in the middle of Portland, Oregon.

969
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 3: You know, it's right in the Willamette. If we buy

970
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 3: that island, folks, if we raise money together and buy

971
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 3: me that island, I promise I'll make this guy look

972
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 3: like a fucking chump. Like, first off, going to get

973
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 3: a lot of you killed, Like let's just be oh yeah,

974
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 3: but it'll be a good Netflix documentary into.

975
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:57,399
Speaker 2: Well it's blood and blood out.

976
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 4: But also you know where you're gonna learn about how

977
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 4: to do like knive throwing, You're gonna learn how to

978
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 4: time not You're gonna learn, you know, how to wash feet.

979
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 3: Once they kill us. Taylor Lautner is gonna play me.

980
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:12,359
Speaker 3: It's gonna be great. Oh, it's gonna be so oh

981
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 3: my god, thank you, thank you. You guys have a

982
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:19,839
Speaker 3: similar why why why because that, Sophie, Because.

983
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:23,359
Speaker 1: You didn't know I know, no, you did not get

984
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 1: that the Taylor Lottner hat I wore like two months ago.

985
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:28,240
Speaker 1: You didn't get the reference, and that hurt my face.

986
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 3: I have hat blindness, Sophie.

987
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:30,759
Speaker 2: Thank you for I read it out.

988
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 1: I read it out loud to you, and then I.

989
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 3: May see your blindness too.

990
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

991
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, well listeners, Robert nor any member of the schools

992
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 1: on media team. Not a single one of them knew

993
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 1: my where the hell have you been? Loka hat? Not

994
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 1: a single one of them. And then I made them

995
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 1: all watch the clip twice on a team.

996
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 2: Meeting, because is that Twilight?

997
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 1: That's what? Thank you, Matt, Thank you Matt.

998
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:55,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, why yes, it is. Well, it's because it's Taylor

999
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 2: Ltner is either that or Spy Kids.

1000
00:48:59,120 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 3: Spike Kids is my.

1001
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 4: He wasn't in Spy Kids, he wasn't Shark Boy.

1002
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh gosh, same have.

1003
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 3: Shark Boy slash Spy Kids blindness too, so you know, yeah,

1004
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 3: it happens. You can't make fun of me. For it anyway.

1005
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 3: In mid nineteen oh that's who's gonna play you. In

1006
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 3: mid nineteen oh three, the city of Corvallis officially forbade

1007
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 3: Creffield and the Holy Rollers from hosting meetings in town.

1008
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 3: So he decides we're going to move to this island,

1009
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 3: Robinson's Island, and he described to his followers, He's like,

1010
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 3: this is literally the Garden of Eden. So biblical scholars

1011
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 3: out there if you're curious. The Garden of Eden, it

1012
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 3: turns out, was based right on the outskirts of Corvallis.

1013
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, you could take a ferry to it.

1014
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, you could take a ferry there. So again, and

1015
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 3: it's you know, if you've been to a lot of

1016
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 3: these islands in Western Oregon, they are very pretty places.

1017
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 3: Like it's not a big stretch to be like this

1018
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 3: is paradise. Especially this is kind of like midsummer or

1019
00:49:56,320 --> 00:50:00,359
Speaker 3: so late summer, which is like, it's incredible and it's

1020
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:03,239
Speaker 3: easy to see how you would enjoy living out in

1021
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,280
Speaker 3: one of these islands. And like midsummer in Western Oregon.

1022
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's none of those snitch journalists out there, and

1023
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:12,399
Speaker 4: now you can roll around on the ground rate time.

1024
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 2: No one's going to yell.

1025
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 3: At you are popping out because he's letting people know.

1026
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 3: At this point, you know, what's what is godly is

1027
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 3: not wearing these fancy, new fangled clothes.

1028
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 2: You know, that's the whole point of the Garden of Eden.

1029
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:25,799
Speaker 3: Dog absolutely eve ate that.

1030
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 4: Apple like an idiot. Everyone just had their titties and

1031
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:29,839
Speaker 4: it is pretty fun.

1032
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're doing a lot of rolling around. They're shrieking

1033
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 3: for hours or days at a time. They're not wearing

1034
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 3: much in the way of clothing. They don't have a

1035
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 3: lot of food, but there's a peach orchard nearby, so

1036
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 3: every day they just gorge themselves on stolen peaches and

1037
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 3: then they return to worshiping, which is not the worst

1038
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 3: life you can live in this period of time.

1039
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 2: Everything.

1040
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:54,399
Speaker 4: Yes, you're describing what my sex cult fancy is. It's

1041
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 4: just like fucking gorging myself on peaches, roll around screaming too.

1042
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:00,719
Speaker 3: What's what's not to like?

1043
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 2: I'm married and have a baby, but I could still.

1044
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 3: Jam That all does sound fun, But if you're keeping

1045
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 3: track on your cult bingo card Craffield has at this

1046
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,320
Speaker 3: point convinced his followers to sever themselves from their friends

1047
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 3: and their community and work them into a state of

1048
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 3: constant exhaustion and starvation. And if you if you know

1049
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 3: your cults, you know what comes next. It's time to

1050
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:22,960
Speaker 3: start fucking them right like that is that is what

1051
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:29,439
Speaker 3: follows naturally, seeing nacturally the next step. So one fine day,

1052
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 3: Edmund Crefield gets up in front of his flock and

1053
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:34,280
Speaker 3: he tells them that he and God have just gotten

1054
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:37,400
Speaker 3: off the phone. And God, you just got off the

1055
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 3: horn with God. He's doing good.

1056
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he says, Mike, com is holy.

1057
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,839
Speaker 3: That is where this ends. He first says, God has

1058
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:49,279
Speaker 3: told me I need to rename myself Joshua. Right, So

1059
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:53,240
Speaker 3: now Edmond Craffield is Joshua Greffield. And it gets better

1060
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 3: because God has also told him that all of his

1061
00:51:56,120 --> 00:52:00,719
Speaker 3: female followers are now eligible to become brides of Christ. Right,

1062
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:03,920
Speaker 3: and one of these brides of Christ is going to

1063
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 3: be chosen by God to give birth to the second Coming. Right,

1064
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:09,240
Speaker 3: one of you is going to be the new Mary.

1065
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 3: But obviously God can't just pick one of you. We

1066
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 3: got to test you out. And guess who's testing you out?

1067
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 3: I got to audition you for God.

1068
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:31,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, listen, God has not told me, he says, he

1069
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 4: needs to feel through my penis which holy vessel your

1070
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:43,680
Speaker 4: pussy should receive the seed of the Lord or something.

1071
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, but that is basically almost exactly how this goes, Matt. Now,

1072
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 3: Joshua's male followers had a purpose too, of course, and

1073
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:54,799
Speaker 3: their purpose was to provide him with the resources he

1074
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 3: needed to build his flock. Now, this is all he

1075
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 3: wants them doing, right. Early on, there were number of

1076
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 3: like couples who joined the Holy Rollers. Mad the Salvation

1077
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:06,640
Speaker 3: Army veteran I mentioned earlier. She joined with her fiance,

1078
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:09,320
Speaker 3: a guy named James Berry, who is like a local

1079
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:11,839
Speaker 3: businessman and I think kind of the wealthiest guy in town.

1080
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:14,759
Speaker 3: And so early on he's cool with this in part

1081
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 3: because he needs Barry's money, right, and Barry gives a

1082
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 3: couple of loans to the cult, but it's never quite enough.

1083
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:23,800
Speaker 3: So one day when they're out on the island, James Berry,

1084
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:25,799
Speaker 3: who's kind of like in and out right, he's not

1085
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 3: fully committed, but he's giving him money because his fiance

1086
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 3: is in it and he loves her. He arrives on

1087
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 3: the island to like check in on Maud and he

1088
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:36,400
Speaker 3: finds the Holy Rollers even more excited than usual and

1089
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 3: He's like, why you guys also fucking amped up, and

1090
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 3: they're like, we're excited because God's going to build us

1091
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:46,279
Speaker 3: a tabernacle. Right, He's going to start construction immediately. We're

1092
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 3: going to get our you know, we're living outside falls,

1093
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:51,360
Speaker 3: getting closer. We really need a place. He's going to

1094
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:54,359
Speaker 3: build it for us. And James is like, well, tabernacles

1095
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 3: ain't cheap. Where you guys getting the money to build it?

1096
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:58,759
Speaker 3: And they're like, oh, you you're giving us the money.

1097
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:02,400
Speaker 3: And it turns out Joshua had started preaching.

1098
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 2: Damn it, Joshua, I gotta get a second job. I

1099
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:07,640
Speaker 2: gotta work for both newspapers.

1100
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:10,800
Speaker 3: Now, what's really funny about this to me? So Joshua

1101
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 3: is like, we need even more money from James Berry

1102
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 3: to build a temple. Right, we need to get like

1103
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 3: all of his money as opposed to these loans he's

1104
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 3: given us. And what's the best way to do this?

1105
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 3: Should I like reach out to him, talk to him privately,

1106
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 3: be like, hey man, we need more money than you've

1107
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 3: been given us. We got to build this temple. He's

1108
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:28,879
Speaker 3: like no, no, no, that he could say.

1109
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 2: No.

1110
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 3: The best thing to do is I'm gonna tell everyone

1111
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:34,399
Speaker 3: that he's already agreed and then trust that that will

1112
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:38,239
Speaker 3: like shame him into doing it right. Yes, this does

1113
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 3: not go over well. James like confronts the prophet and

1114
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 3: he's like, dude, I've already loaned you guys money and

1115
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:46,719
Speaker 3: it's due, right, the loan is past due. And Crifield

1116
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 3: is like, I came here to pick it up. No, no, no,

1117
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 3: easy mistake to make, but it's not due. I just

1118
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:53,800
Speaker 3: got off the phone with God. He said he canceled

1119
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:55,960
Speaker 3: the debts, So actually, would you do me a favor

1120
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:58,319
Speaker 3: in write a receipt letting me know that we don't

1121
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:00,719
Speaker 3: have a debt anymore, because because God says it's canceled.

1122
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 2: I mean, like, this is pure pimps. This is like,

1123
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 2: this is such pimps. It's crazy.

1124
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 4: This guy is like, no, actually, you owe me money

1125
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:16,960
Speaker 4: and I'm gonna fuck your fiance.

1126
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:17,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1127
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:20,760
Speaker 3: Oh that is exactly where this is headed. Of course,

1128
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:22,879
Speaker 3: to talk about what comes next, I'm gonna quote again

1129
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:26,319
Speaker 3: from Holy Rollers. God was now telling Craffield that James

1130
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 3: should quit work, sell his valuables, including his new automobile,

1131
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 3: and give the money to Craffield and devote himself to

1132
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 3: the church. The automobile, one of the first in Corvallis,

1133
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 3: was obviously something received from carnal hands. Either God or

1134
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:41,360
Speaker 3: Creffield made a mistake. James said, telling God's anointed that

1135
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 3: he wasn't going to give Creffield another cent. God was

1136
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:46,359
Speaker 3: mad now, or so said Craffield, who said that God

1137
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 3: would smite James for this, so he was not done.

1138
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 3: Craffield's not done with Barry. At the smiting, he decides

1139
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:55,240
Speaker 3: that if this rich guy is going to stay devoted

1140
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:57,799
Speaker 3: to his carnal possessions, then he certainly doesn't deserve to

1141
00:55:57,800 --> 00:55:59,879
Speaker 3: be married to a woman as godly as Maud, who,

1142
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 3: by coincidence, Crefield wants to have sex with.

1143
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:05,160
Speaker 2: So he yeah, I mean he's known her since she

1144
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:06,400
Speaker 2: was fourteen, I get.

1145
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 3: It, he tells, He tells, yeah, he tells Maud, the

1146
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:10,840
Speaker 3: Lord told me that you have to break off your engagement,

1147
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 3: and she does. She does this immediately. So after this,

1148
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:17,799
Speaker 3: he kind of gets high off of this, the fact

1149
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:20,840
Speaker 3: that like this, he says, hey, leave your fiance. This

1150
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:23,879
Speaker 3: one does it. And so he starts preaching hardcore about

1151
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:24,800
Speaker 3: personal purity.

1152
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 2: Right.

1153
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:28,920
Speaker 3: He starts like discussing how he's got this this hatred

1154
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 3: of like the carnal He tells his followers flee fornication.

1155
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:35,320
Speaker 3: Every sin that a man doeth is without the body.

1156
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:38,360
Speaker 3: But he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

1157
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 3: Are you still in bondage to your carnal nature? Is

1158
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 3: the old man still living in your heart? Have you

1159
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 3: still this man fearing spirit, this something which hinders you

1160
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 3: from becoming a visitor at all times? Do not be discouraged.

1161
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:52,040
Speaker 3: God wants to use you to cleanse you, to purge

1162
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 3: you from your inbred sin, baptize you with fire, and

1163
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 3: enable you to come up to His commandments to live

1164
00:56:57,080 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 3: a holy life. Claim the promise, stand firm upon it,

1165
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,160
Speaker 3: and the witness of the Spirit will come and will

1166
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:04,759
Speaker 3: baptize you with his love and make you a holy man,

1167
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 3: Make you victorious over the world, the flesh and the devil.

1168
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 2: Hey, are you trying to funk my Why? I feel

1169
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:17,280
Speaker 2: like guys, he's trying to.

1170
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 3: Fuck our why?

1171
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, you can do it.

1172
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:23,760
Speaker 3: That's what that is. That is how a lot of

1173
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 3: the men in his cult react at this point. This

1174
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 3: is when a lot of them start to Of course.

1175
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:31,440
Speaker 4: They do, because every any man can see where this

1176
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:32,320
Speaker 4: is exactly.

1177
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:36,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, any man is going, I know what you're doing, dude.

1178
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:37,640
Speaker 2: You're trying to fuck my wife.

1179
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 3: Now, that is happening. At the same time, what a

1180
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 3: lot of these women are doing is like, well, my

1181
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 3: husband's terrible at sex and Bet Crayfield fucks.

1182
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1183
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:53,760
Speaker 3: That is the other half of this story, right, So yeah,

1184
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 3: the fact that this works so well seems to kind

1185
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 3: of have surprised Joshua, and so he immediately decides to

1186
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 3: double down. He tells another couple in his flock, Sophie

1187
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:05,000
Speaker 3: Hartley and Lee Campbell, Hey, God wants you to end

1188
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 3: your engagement declaring, and he and he declares. He gives

1189
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 3: a speech where he's like, the relation of man to

1190
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 3: wife is unholy, and as support for this, he cites

1191
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 3: one Corinthians seven to one quote now concerning the things,

1192
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 3: whereof you wrote, unto me, it is good for a

1193
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 3: man not to touch a woman. And again he means

1194
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:25,800
Speaker 3: the other men in his flock right.

1195
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 2: Right right now, different standards for him, bro.

1196
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:32,920
Speaker 3: And the actual quote like context of that verse is

1197
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 3: basically from the point of the Bible where this is said,

1198
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:41,320
Speaker 3: is like sexual immorality is any sex at all? But

1199
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:43,880
Speaker 3: since it's inevitable men and women should get married and

1200
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:46,600
Speaker 3: fulfill their marital duty right, which is not a great

1201
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:49,000
Speaker 3: message either in my opinion, but it's not exactly how

1202
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 3: Graffield is portraying it. But Crayfield's theological argument is that

1203
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:56,760
Speaker 3: his follower is going to get closer to God and

1204
00:58:56,800 --> 00:58:59,480
Speaker 3: be holy your people by issuing all sex except for

1205
00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 3: the sex that he has to have in order to

1206
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 3: find the bride of Christ.

1207
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:03,040
Speaker 2: Right.

1208
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, the new Joshua isn't able to get this commandment

1209
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 3: out fast enough to stop all of his followers from

1210
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 3: getting married. Molly Sandal and Frank Hurt wed the night

1211
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:16,439
Speaker 3: before God gets on the heavenly phone line with Joshua

1212
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 3: and luckily for them God, you know, because they're really

1213
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:22,000
Speaker 3: concerned when they get married. And then he has this

1214
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:24,240
Speaker 3: revelation like, oh my God, are we out of step

1215
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 3: with what God wants? And Joshua's like, don't worry. God

1216
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:29,960
Speaker 3: told me a way that you can still receive the

1217
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:32,560
Speaker 3: grace of love. Right, we just have to perform a

1218
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:35,160
Speaker 3: I just have to perform a private ceremony with your

1219
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:42,120
Speaker 3: wife to endower with the grace of love. So well, yeah,

1220
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:45,960
Speaker 3: exactly what's happening about here. Yeah, it's not one hundred

1221
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:48,560
Speaker 3: percent clear, but it's described and holy rollers is like

1222
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 3: they retire to his intent and engage in a long

1223
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 3: church service, right, and we know that afterwards he like

1224
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:58,360
Speaker 3: kisses all of the women that he does this with, right,

1225
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:01,440
Speaker 3: So you can put to in two together, right as

1226
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:04,680
Speaker 3: to like what this service is. There are a few

1227
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 3: couples and a few people who refuse this new change

1228
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:10,480
Speaker 3: for the cult, and he denounces them all as cardinal

1229
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:12,520
Speaker 3: and of the devil. He makes his followers cut off

1230
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 3: contact with them normal cult leadership.

1231
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 2: Right.

1232
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:20,160
Speaker 3: So there's also you know, if you kind of fall

1233
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:23,480
Speaker 3: out of favor of Joshua and do something he calls cardinal,

1234
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:25,520
Speaker 3: you don't have to leave. There is a way that

1235
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 3: you can atone and that is by letting him whip you.

1236
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:31,520
Speaker 3: Right now, he does this to men and women, although

1237
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:33,240
Speaker 3: I think he does it more to men than women.

1238
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 3: There's a local and contemporary news report that describes when

1239
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:41,080
Speaker 3: one of Joshua's followers ed sharp like sneaks into the

1240
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 3: prophet's tint when he's like whipping another man, and he

1241
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:48,560
Speaker 3: like sees the two of them, and they mistake him

1242
01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:50,800
Speaker 3: for the devil. Is what's written in the news article

1243
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:51,840
Speaker 3: and beat the shit out.

1244
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 2: Of him with the man also, and they both beat the.

1245
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 3: Shit out of him, and then D's like, fuck this,

1246
01:00:57,840 --> 01:00:58,720
Speaker 3: I'm leaving the cult.

1247
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 4: Sorry, bro, we thought you were the devil. You snuck

1248
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:08,440
Speaker 4: up on us while common mistake. I was whipping him

1249
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 4: and he was enjoying us.

1250
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 3: To all of us. So ed is fairly representative of

1251
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 3: a large number of male followers of Crefield, who increasingly

1252
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:18,080
Speaker 3: leave the flock as time goes on and it grows

1253
01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 3: clear that the primary goal of the prophet's teaching is

1254
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:23,360
Speaker 3: to let him have sex with every woman in town.

1255
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:27,440
Speaker 3: When some of his most stalwart male followers bulk, Crefield

1256
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:29,520
Speaker 3: declares that all of the men in the camp save

1257
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:32,400
Speaker 3: his three lieutenants are fake Christians and now have to

1258
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:35,960
Speaker 3: be shunned by not like all non believers. Families are

1259
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:37,800
Speaker 3: split up as a result of this. And if it's

1260
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:39,720
Speaker 3: hard to believe that people would do this, you have

1261
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:43,040
Speaker 3: to remember everyone's spending every waking hour it's been months

1262
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:45,960
Speaker 3: now praying that the entire time they're awake, often for

1263
01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:48,440
Speaker 3: twenty four hours in a row. The only food they

1264
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:51,240
Speaker 3: have is peaches, and now the only approved dick is Craffield.

1265
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:56,960
Speaker 3: So like people are not in the most rational place, right, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1266
01:01:56,960 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 3: And this is the point in which the outside world, right,

1267
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:03,760
Speaker 3: which includes the town of Corvallis, starts to get really concerned.

1268
01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:08,120
Speaker 3: The Salvation Army, concerned by declining donations and all these defections,

1269
01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:11,400
Speaker 3: sends one of their best soldiers out after the problem, Captain.

1270
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:15,680
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, this island's about to be invaded by the Salvation.

1271
01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:19,360
Speaker 3: They send him, Captain Charles Brooks, who has been he's

1272
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:22,480
Speaker 3: been a Christian soldier for eleven years. He's recently met

1273
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:25,600
Speaker 3: General Booth, founder of the Salvation Army, to like talk

1274
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:26,840
Speaker 3: this over, and so he.

1275
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:29,560
Speaker 2: Like, this guy's got a tactical bell that he's.

1276
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:33,280
Speaker 3: Gonna be like Mason of the Salvation Army, except as

1277
01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:36,880
Speaker 3: soon as he arrives something happens. Right within days of

1278
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:39,720
Speaker 3: getting there. He like claims in a letter that he

1279
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:42,000
Speaker 3: was as soon as he gets to the island, the

1280
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:45,040
Speaker 3: devil approaches him. Who's and the Devil's covered in snakes,

1281
01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 3: and he like sends a bunch of hideous reptiles that

1282
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:51,840
Speaker 3: like swarm and cover Brooks and quote as a means

1283
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 3: of placating his devilish majesty Brooks tears off his Salvation

1284
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:59,320
Speaker 3: Army uniform and throws it into the fire and then

1285
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 3: announce that he's also a prophet and joins Creffield's flock.

1286
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:08,720
Speaker 4: Oh hell, yeah, this guy saw what was going on

1287
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:11,240
Speaker 4: and he said like, oh, I'm down for this.

1288
01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:14,080
Speaker 3: Entirely possible. He's just like, this seems like more fun

1289
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:15,080
Speaker 3: than the Salvation Army.

1290
01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:18,720
Speaker 2: Yes, he shows up at Titty Church and he's like,

1291
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:19,600
Speaker 2: I prefer.

1292
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:25,800
Speaker 3: Another theory too. So western Northwest Oregon is where like

1293
01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:28,520
Speaker 3: one of the densest places in the world for like

1294
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:31,520
Speaker 3: the natural growth of magic mushrooms. You get a ship,

1295
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:34,120
Speaker 3: I have a bunch of friends. People pick them all

1296
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:37,160
Speaker 3: over the place here, and it's been known for a

1297
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:40,920
Speaker 3: while that we have hallucinogenic mushrooms. I wouldn't be surprised

1298
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:44,000
Speaker 3: if they were like the Salvation Army guys here. Let's

1299
01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:48,200
Speaker 3: let's give him some tea, you know, Yeah, I wouldn't

1300
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:52,520
Speaker 3: be shocked if that were a factor in this. Oh yes,

1301
01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:55,720
Speaker 3: he also could have picked some accidentally and just made

1302
01:03:55,760 --> 01:04:01,439
Speaker 3: himself tripped. Not impossible. Who hated a lizard man? Thing

1303
01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:02,400
Speaker 3: makes me wonder, like.

1304
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:05,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, this hallucinated a lizard man and now I'm also

1305
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:08,080
Speaker 4: talking to God that does say.

1306
01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:13,200
Speaker 3: Sounds a little bit like mushrooms. Yeah, So you know,

1307
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:15,360
Speaker 3: it's important to note that everything we've been talking about

1308
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:17,920
Speaker 3: here so far has occurred over the course of the

1309
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:21,040
Speaker 3: summer of nineteen oh three. And if you haven't been here,

1310
01:04:21,160 --> 01:04:25,440
Speaker 3: Oregon has really mild, pleasant summers famously, right, that's something

1311
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:28,120
Speaker 3: that we are infamous for, especially like western Oregon. But

1312
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:30,920
Speaker 3: in the fall, it gets very wet, very fast, and

1313
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:36,720
Speaker 3: also quite cold, right, and so living alone outside naked

1314
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:38,920
Speaker 3: in an island not going to be a great call

1315
01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:42,720
Speaker 3: like come you know, September October, It's going to get

1316
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:47,720
Speaker 3: markedly less pleasant, very quickly. So Maud this is able

1317
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:50,360
Speaker 3: to thankfully invite her prophet and eighteen of his most

1318
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:53,280
Speaker 3: devoted followers into her family home to like wade out

1319
01:04:53,320 --> 01:04:56,640
Speaker 3: the winter. So at this point, Crefield is now back

1320
01:04:56,680 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 3: in corballis and he has taken a significant chunk of

1321
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 3: the young men in town into his colt. He's broken

1322
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:05,040
Speaker 3: up a bunch of marriages, and he has moved what

1323
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 3: resembles a harem into a family house in town. This

1324
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:12,440
Speaker 3: is not popular, right, This is going to piss off

1325
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:15,320
Speaker 3: a number of people, and I'm going to quote now

1326
01:05:15,360 --> 01:05:17,960
Speaker 3: from offbeat Oregon history author Finn JD.

1327
01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:18,400
Speaker 2: John.

1328
01:05:19,120 --> 01:05:22,040
Speaker 3: Their simple clothing consisted of a plain cloth wrapper, which

1329
01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:25,280
Speaker 3: one source recounts was similar to a bathrobe. The outsiders

1330
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:28,680
Speaker 3: felt was inadequate to protect female modesty, and in any case,

1331
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:31,400
Speaker 3: looked entirely too easy to take off. By itself. The

1332
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:34,200
Speaker 3: communal living arrangement would have been bad enough, but Creffield's

1333
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:36,720
Speaker 3: followers combine it with a mania for secrecy that all

1334
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:39,760
Speaker 3: but invited other community members to fear the worst. Members

1335
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:42,120
Speaker 3: vanished from their families lives into a locked house with

1336
01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:45,160
Speaker 3: barred windows, supervised only by the cult leader and his cronies.

1337
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:49,160
Speaker 3: So you know, there's a lot of things small town

1338
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:52,280
Speaker 3: Oregonians are willing to overlook in neighbors, but not stealing

1339
01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:54,120
Speaker 3: their sisters and wives, and to.

1340
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:56,400
Speaker 2: Be entire yeah, and making them dress all slowly, to.

1341
01:05:56,320 --> 01:05:59,280
Speaker 3: Be entirely fair to Craffield. That's how these guys viewed it.

1342
01:05:59,360 --> 01:06:01,760
Speaker 3: The men in court Vallas, it's not clear to me

1343
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:06,160
Speaker 3: that he's stealing anybody. Right. Most times when we talk

1344
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:09,000
Speaker 3: about a sex cult, they're pretty profoundly abusive. But the

1345
01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:11,680
Speaker 3: culture is also very abusive to women in this period,

1346
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:15,040
Speaker 3: and it's it seems like, based on the information we have,

1347
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:18,080
Speaker 3: the women who join this cult much prefer it to

1348
01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:19,680
Speaker 3: their lives outside of the cult.

1349
01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:22,840
Speaker 2: And yeah, I gotta say from my you know, time

1350
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:26,880
Speaker 2: visiting or like like Portland, not much as.

1351
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:30,440
Speaker 3: Not much as yeah, you know, yeah.

1352
01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:33,080
Speaker 2: The women there, they still like to be free. You know,

1353
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:35,280
Speaker 2: I've had brunch at multiple.

1354
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:37,640
Speaker 3: Strip clubs there and and you know, I do think

1355
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:40,040
Speaker 3: a lot of like the portrayal of like this cult

1356
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:43,160
Speaker 3: is like him being this, he stole all these women,

1357
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:45,440
Speaker 3: he's ruining the women in town is based on the

1358
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:48,040
Speaker 3: fact that this is a deeply misogynistic society, and like,

1359
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:50,600
Speaker 3: I think a lot of these women are making, potentially,

1360
01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:53,320
Speaker 3: I think it would be reasonable, to say, a perfectly

1361
01:06:53,400 --> 01:06:56,040
Speaker 3: rational decision to live a much more pleasant life with

1362
01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:58,720
Speaker 3: this guy than with their shitty.

1363
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:00,920
Speaker 4: The guy talks good, he's hot, he's got a big hog,

1364
01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:02,640
Speaker 4: and he's like, yeah, do whatever you want.

1365
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:06,800
Speaker 2: I mean, he's like, he's like he's manipulating them.

1366
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:10,000
Speaker 3: He's absolutely abusive. It's just it's not clear to me

1367
01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:13,520
Speaker 3: that he is more abusive than the men in town.

1368
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:17,919
Speaker 4: Right right, Yeah, it's it's the it's an abnormal type

1369
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:18,680
Speaker 4: of abusive.

1370
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:22,080
Speaker 3: But maybe it's just different, maybe not even lesser, But

1371
01:07:22,200 --> 01:07:25,360
Speaker 3: like I think it's not. It's not clear to me

1372
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:28,160
Speaker 3: that these women are not making the most kind of

1373
01:07:28,160 --> 01:07:30,960
Speaker 3: informed decision they can be making, that this is better

1374
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:34,040
Speaker 3: than their lives in town. Which doesn't mean he's not

1375
01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:38,160
Speaker 3: also abusive. It's just a bad time, right. So yeah,

1376
01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:41,160
Speaker 3: we're gonna talk about all of that and much more

1377
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:44,120
Speaker 3: in part two. But before we get into part two,

1378
01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:47,640
Speaker 3: Matt leeb, you exist on the internet in a variety

1379
01:07:47,680 --> 01:07:48,160
Speaker 3: of places.

1380
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:52,840
Speaker 2: I am on the Internet. If you like me and

1381
01:07:53,040 --> 01:07:54,600
Speaker 2: you like watching.

1382
01:07:54,280 --> 01:07:58,439
Speaker 4: Television shows like The Sopranos or The Wire, you can

1383
01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:02,800
Speaker 4: listen to pod your self a Gun, which is a

1384
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:06,920
Speaker 4: Sopranos and the Wire rewatch podcast, and then once the

1385
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:10,560
Speaker 4: Wires over, we'll watch another show. So check that out

1386
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:13,640
Speaker 4: wherever you get your podcasts. And you know, even if

1387
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:16,840
Speaker 4: you don't watch it or listen to the show, give

1388
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:19,720
Speaker 4: us five stars in a review. Say hey, Matt Lee,

1389
01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:22,760
Speaker 4: that Matt Leave sure is great. I'm gonna listen to

1390
01:08:22,840 --> 01:08:23,840
Speaker 4: it at some point, but you.

1391
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:27,960
Speaker 7: Don't even have but you should, Yeah, but you should

1392
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:31,439
Speaker 7: absolutely listen to it, you know, move on to an

1393
01:08:31,479 --> 01:08:34,640
Speaker 7: island with Matt Leeb you know, do it recently.

1394
01:08:34,360 --> 01:08:38,160
Speaker 2: Dude, move to an island, bring your wife whatever.

1395
01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:40,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll have yeah. And uh, if you are in

1396
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:45,040
Speaker 3: the donating mood, the Portland Children's Museum could use your

1397
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:48,160
Speaker 3: help to provide kids all throughout the Portland metropolitan area

1398
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:52,400
Speaker 3: with educational resources and uh yeah, all sorts of fun stuff.

1399
01:08:52,400 --> 01:08:55,160
Speaker 3: So please text bastards to five oh one to five

1400
01:08:55,240 --> 01:08:57,880
Speaker 3: five if you're in the mood to donate, that's bastards

1401
01:08:57,920 --> 01:08:58,559
Speaker 3: to fine.

1402
01:09:00,600 --> 01:09:03,800
Speaker 4: And if you I don't know when this episode's going

1403
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:05,800
Speaker 4: to come out, so I don't know if the tickets.

1404
01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:08,639
Speaker 1: Oh, next week, no, no, no, no, no no. The next

1405
01:09:08,640 --> 01:09:11,000
Speaker 1: week is Thanksgiving, so we're not We're not.

1406
01:09:11,320 --> 01:09:13,400
Speaker 3: Fuck next week. The hell with next week?

1407
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:16,439
Speaker 1: Next week fire the last week of the last week

1408
01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:17,080
Speaker 1: of November.

1409
01:09:17,640 --> 01:09:21,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, well the tickets won't necessarily be on sale,

1410
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:25,280
Speaker 2: but I might as well just say March seventeenth, Sunday

1411
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:30,799
Speaker 2: Punchline and Sacramento, myself and my wife Quarantine will.

1412
01:09:30,640 --> 01:09:32,800
Speaker 3: Be I'm sorry. I shouldn't have done that at all.

1413
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:34,920
Speaker 2: No, I always do it.

1414
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:39,360
Speaker 4: We are going to be headlining the Punchline in Sacramento.

1415
01:09:39,479 --> 01:09:43,200
Speaker 4: That Sacramento, California, seven pm, Sunday.

1416
01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:44,879
Speaker 2: March seventeenth.

1417
01:09:44,920 --> 01:09:49,280
Speaker 4: If you can't get your tickets, then you know, just

1418
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:52,120
Speaker 4: keep that date in mind and eventually the tickets will

1419
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:52,280
Speaker 4: go on.

1420
01:09:52,439 --> 01:10:00,000
Speaker 3: Say yeah, so go to Hell. I Love you.

1421
01:10:01,160 --> 01:10:03,880
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1422
01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:07,520
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website coolzonemedia

1423
01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:10,840
Speaker 1: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1424
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:13,400
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.